Open mike 05/08/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 5th, 2023 - 75 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

75 comments on “Open mike 05/08/2023 ”

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  1. bwaghorn 1
    5 August 2023 at 6:59 am

    "George1.3.2

    4 August 2023 at 6:08 pm

    Remember that Luxon is still polling lower than Judith Collins was …so no matter what the Nats are saying about coalitions it's a long long way from any of those 2 parties being a done deal yet.

    For those lefties who have retired early,George points the way.

    People don't like luxon, they will be unconsciously looking for a reason to not vote national, look at acts rise and possible votes going to minor parties.

    Just need labour to stand up, stop fucking up and give them a flag to follow.

  2. PsyclingLeft.Always 2
    5 August 2023 at 9:08 am

    A top Gisborne scientist has retained the support of the council he represents despite posting vitriol about the government.

    Well, what has he been saying? He's not a fan of "woke" ?

    Maybe a bit darker than that..

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/495189/gisborne-council-s-main-scientist-posts-anti-government-views-on-social-media

    An opinion is subjective…and everyones right. Dr Murry however seems quite engaged about his views. And also "had been" displaying his senior position. And the Gisborne Council seemingly supportive. Well..of Dr Murry anyway….

    • SPC 2.1
      5 August 2023 at 9:51 am

      One always wonders why people oppose the existence of a Tenancy Tribunal – presumably it's because they support those who own stuff having power over those who do not …

      The same as, why would someone oppose the continuance of the Human Rights Commission, or want to re-write the Treaty?

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1.1
        5 August 2023 at 10:11 am

        Yep, it pretty much exposes their core mindset..if not ideology.

        Seemingly some are either arrogant enough, or literally dont care, to voice these views…through media. At times using their position of "authority" or similar, to give weight to their, at times, poisonous views. Having had interaction with different Councils…and Departments IMO, its well spread through NZ

        Climate Denial would be another, that I personally know to be given credence…

      • alwyn 2.1.2
        5 August 2023 at 12:35 pm

        " want to re-write the Treaty?"

        That seems fairly obvious. It is the main occupation of the members of the Maori caucus in the Labour Party and of the Maori Party in Parliament surely? It also keeps members of the Waitangi Tribunal employed indefinitely doesn't it?

        It certainly seems to be the main reason to me anyway.

        • SPC 2.1.2.1
          5 August 2023 at 12:42 pm

          Neither party proposes re-writing the Treaty, the party that does also proposes abolishing the Human Rights Council and the Waitangi Tribunal.

          It will be interesting to see how Luxon answers questions about, whether any of these things would occur if he was PM …

    • Matiri 2.2
      5 August 2023 at 10:08 am

      Murry Cave used to work as a consultant and provided expert advice for the likes of Talleys trying to push through Hydro schemes.

  3. pat 3
    5 August 2023 at 9:43 am

    "I am not arguing that we should have another Planning Council or Commission for the Future which Muldoon’s government established in the 1970s. Neither was particularly successful, in part because governments have a propensity to stack boards with the politically correct and politicians’ pets rather than the competent and thoughtful. Instead, we need a change in the nation’s culture to move away from thinking fast to thinking slow. I doubt you will see any such move in the run up to the election. It will be more like Friday night’s drinkies."

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/thinking-slow-or-thinking-fast

    Brian Easton musing sensibly again….we could do with a cabinet of his type.

    • Ad 3.1
      5 August 2023 at 9:53 am

      National is proposing a National Infrastructure Agency which will be looking at least 20 years into the future with its programmes.

      Presumably it will absorb the work of the Infrastructure Commission and the long term planning functions of NZTA and Transpower, and take the other long term planning functions out of MBIE.

      This is of course something Labour could have started in 2017.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300899281/national-campaigns-for-new-infrastructure-agency-and-value-capture-taxes

      • AB 3.1.1
        5 August 2023 at 10:10 am

        On the surface it looks like a grandiose front – with the real purpose being to place future infrastructure in private hands or to siphon public money into private hands through development 'partnerships'. And it is likely to operate in a way that prioritises the wrong infrastructure, i.e. things that are not informed by realism about what's happening to the climate. Ultimately, structures are tools of the ideology that animates them.

      • SPC 3.1.2
        5 August 2023 at 10:11 am

        Centralising the management of the expansion of the opportunity for private sector profit delivering what the government will ultimately pay for.

        • Ad 3.1.2.1
          5 August 2023 at 11:49 am

          Sure, agree: realistically the state and its income base are no longer big enough to deliver what we need in infrastructure, so we are going to need private capital for it.

          • SPC 3.1.2.1.1
            5 August 2023 at 11:54 am

            The thing is, if the state income base cannot finance via debt the infrastructure investment, how is it going to pay corporations a return for their investment?

            • Ad 3.1.2.1.1.1
              5 August 2023 at 1:22 pm

              Depends on the model.

              For a PPP, it's a set rate of return for the length of the maintenance contract, sometimes supplemented by a cut of the toll if there is one.

              For an Alliance contract, all participants public or private distribute the gains or losses.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.1.3
        5 August 2023 at 11:22 am

        Ad, perhaps your views are not left anymore?

        When has "Think Big" been more than "Top End"?

        Why aren't you extolling the things that are being achieved right now? (Megan Woods' successes)

        Instead you are extolling Nact's "future" plans" which could end up like Bridges' Bridges.. non existent. Before any pie in the sky…

        a They have to win.
        b They have to form a coalition. (and work together to agree to that lol)

        They don't need promotion on this site, they have millions from their top end friends to do that.

        • SPC 3.1.3.1
          5 August 2023 at 11:44 am

          Centralisation

          1. Maximising the use of scarce resources – people

          2. Coherency – transport and plans for a resilient economy (roading , coastal shipping when roads are out etc).

          3. In whose interest – profit for corporate investors or funding for national infrastructure?

        • Ad 3.1.3.2
          5 August 2023 at 11:47 am

          This government has had ample time to sell its successes.

          It has also had ample time to convince us that it has a coherent direction to lead us in.

          Brian Easton might want to take stock of the numerous multi-Term projects that have been completed and will shortly complete:

          – Waikato expressway

          – Puhoi-Wellsford epressway

          – Transmission Gully

          – National Convention Centre

          – City Rail Link

          – Panmure-Botany Busway

          – The big Christchurch bypass motorway routes and bridge interchanges

          Debate their merits sure, but Labour+Greens started none of them.

          • SPC 3.1.3.2.1
            5 August 2023 at 12:03 pm

            Some such as City Rail Link are Auckland Transport plans in origin, before 2008.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Rail_Link

            It’s the nature of multi-year planning and building projects for them to be completed by a later government. More so, when National wanted its building of more roads to get it re-elected in 2017.

            • Ad 3.1.3.2.1.1
              5 August 2023 at 1:19 pm

              Only National signed to fund them. CRL was October 2016 with Bridges and Len Brown.

        • Jilly Bee 3.1.3.3
          5 August 2023 at 12:03 pm

          Couldn't have said it clearer and better myself. Onya Patricia, I find Ad's wee rants absolutely tiresome and a general pain in the butt. Perhaps he should take up residence at The Daily Blog (which I gave up on a few years ago), or even Kiwiblog.

  4. Mac1 4
    5 August 2023 at 9:55 am

    Why is Luxon polling so low, personally? There is a photo in today's The Press that has Uffindell hovering in the background.

    Luxon stated in defence of his bullying MP van de Molen, now before the Privileges committee, that he has never seen van de Molen angry or raising his voice.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/national-leader-christopher-luxon-says-he-s-never-seen-under-fire-mp-tim-van-de-molen-be-aggressive.html

    Who would be aggressive in Luxon's presence when Uffindell is standing in the background?

    Who bullies a bigger bully?

    Who trusts a leader who defends bullies, who is backed by bullies, and is one?

    https://www.facebook.com/FactCheckedNZ/photos/a.333540594935020/484666246489120/?paipv=0&eav=AfYlDDBkcd5iQk2IPPM3np8gfUh8uXT69jhW6cGcvXGrqLYgRcM5h_TgxxtOc3fTaTU&_rdr

    • AB 4.1
      5 August 2023 at 10:22 am

      "Why is Luxon polling so low, personally"

      We don't know and can only guess. Like all public opinion it will be vague, shifting incoherent, self-contradictory and mostly baffling to an observer, There are some obvious things that might explain it though I'm not convinced they do: he is not handsome or clever, he is verbally talentless and emotionally dead, he has no wit or charm, his spirit is not large or generous but confined to the narrow rails of corporate orthodoxy, he is not very human. But then, most (but not all) of these things were true of John Key, and he was somehow very popular. So go figure!

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 4.1.1
        5 August 2023 at 10:39 am

        sir Key…albeit being a Hollow man, was "mostly" pretty good at situationally "faking it" . His Merill Lynch days were a training ground

        Some co-workers called him "the smiling assassin" for maintaining his usual cheerfulness while sacking dozens (some say hundreds) of staff

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Key

        Of course sometimes he misjudged…even badly, Tranz rail shares, Rugby threeway handshake , , Waitress pony tail fondling etc;….

        And i absolutely agree : Go Figure !

        Luxon, while apparently a protege, and seemingly favoured by sir Key…doesnt have the Key faking skills . or the Teflon.

        Hope this is exposed more.

      • bwaghorn 4.1.2
        5 August 2023 at 5:23 pm

        His fakeness shines through, sweaty grasping we shite, only his 2ic willis is more fake,

    • ianmac 4.2
      5 August 2023 at 12:30 pm

      Luxon. Hard to know if it is simply bias but the "aura" that he gives off to me is lack of authenticity. Things he says are not beliefs but like Trump, he is just saying what his audience wants to hear (like Key too but without Key's ability to say that which can be interpreted either way.) In other words Key was a better Con man.

      • Shanreagh 4.2.1
        5 August 2023 at 1:15 pm

        Yes Ianmac about Luxon. I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have been watching him recently as I felt I needed to see what made him tick. He has a merry smile and, like Hipkins, this makes his face light up.

        But…….

        This lack of authenticity…I wonder if it is something to do with the type of church he belongs to, a faux front about being saved or will be ……?

        I talk to all the churchy people who come to the door and he is a bit like some of them.

        I sense that he either does not know how the other half lives, or is not interested.

        I find the dogma of the prosperity churches hard to fathom.

        What is the propserity Gospel

        "The Prosperity Gospel (PG) is a fast-growing theologically conservative movement frequently associated with Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, and charismatic Christianity that emphasizes believers' abilities to transcend poverty and/or illness through devotion and positive confession."

        What is the theology of prosperity?

        The prosperity gospel is the belief that God rewards those with right thinking with health, wealth, and whole-life abundance. It goes by many names, known alternatively as the faith, health and wealth, Word of Faith, or “Name It and Claim It” gospel.26/02/2018

        And much more from……

        https://www.britannica.com/topic/prosperity-gospel

        There is nothing about helping one's ‘brothers’ or even being aware of one's ‘brothers’. With the emphasis on the individual pulling oneself up believers may not be supportive of society as a whole having a responsibility through Govt, personal actions & beliefs. This fits neatly into the less Govt side of the Nats.

        • Patricia Bremner 4.2.1.1
          5 August 2023 at 8:25 pm

          yes Shanreagh. The "deserving poor" will get grudging charity, the rest a label… Bottom feeders.

          They are certain "God is on their side".

          He has a merry smile…. ??

          Personally I note the Luxon sneers. The merry smile has been plastered on after Mary Lambie joined his personal presentation team. It faded a bit having to talk about van de Molen. Chaos too close to home?

  5. Roy Cartland 5
    5 August 2023 at 10:18 am

    @weka can you teach me how to upload an image? I've found a perfect one of s certain politician that needs to be shared 🙂

    • weka 5.1
      5 August 2023 at 11:07 am

      Hi Roy. Can you please link to the image, because it depends a bit on where it is stored.

    • Phillip ure 6.1
      5 August 2023 at 5:54 pm

      More high quality policies from the greens…

      They really are knocking it out of the ballpark with their plans for a good future…

  7. SPC 7
    5 August 2023 at 2:22 pm

    David Seymour accused of dog whistling.

    "It's dog-whistling," she said.

    NBR senior journalist Dita de Boni agreed, pointing to the language Seymour is using.

    "These kinds of things that drip off the tongue… these are dog whistles to [these] kinds of people," de Boni said.

    "I don't think he, himself, is like that but he's using the phraseology that appeals to people like that and he's doing it deliberately."

    However, Bradford noted every politician and every party does the same to try and appeal to their constituency in a political campaign.

    Seymour, earlier on Newshub Nation, denied using race relations as political opportunism in his election campaign.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/political-commentators-accuse-act-s-david-seymour-of-dog-whistling-to-anti-co-governance-supporters.html

    It's designed to appeal to the racist bones in the body of voters.

    It's those who cater to class privilege, exploiting race for political /personal profit.

    Or like a woman walking down a street of Rome reserved for young men on e bikes and bald men on vespas.

  9. SPC 9
    5 August 2023 at 4:57 pm

    David Seymour claims high tax is driving New Zealanders to Oz.

    They have a CGT, we only have a bright-line version.

    They have no CGT on some food, we do.

    He is keeping GST on food.

    The Oz top rate is 45 cents ours is less at 39 cents.

    We have 10.5cents to $14,000, they have zero to $20,000

    So there is that.

    His plan 17.5 cents on the first $20,000.

    So what is his plan really about

    Its 28 cents to $70,000 and then 28 cents as the top rate (our company tax rate). Presumably this will be the trust rate as well.

    This will cost billions each year to make those on higher incomes much better off.

    He offers no estimate as to the lost revenue – as if transfer upward does not cause any ballooning of any revenue hole.

    Its as if his $30B revenue hole claim and lost tax revenue from tax cuts came out of two different holes on two different heads.

    Is he more Zaphod than Rimmer?

    If ACT's tax policy were implemented, wealthy New Zealanders would pay vastly less tax.

    In 2021, it was found the wealthiest 1 percent of New Zealanders has a net worth 68 times that of the average New Zealander.

    The wealthiest 10 percent of Kiwis own one-quarter of the country's assets, while the poorest 50 percent has just 2 percent.

    This year, a report carried out by the Government found the median effective tax rate of the very wealthiest New Zealanders is only 9.4 percent, compared with 20.2 percent for other middle wealth New Zealanders.

    Asked whether New Zealand's wealth gap is acceptable, Seymour responded, "Yeah it is.

    "You tell me what the gap should be," he added. "Do you want more wealthy people in New Zealand or less?"

    Seymour argued higher tax rates lead to wealthy Kiwis leaving the country and accused parties on the left of having policies that "chase the wealthy away".

    "We will all be poorer as a result," he said.

    "What we want to do is to make success part of New Zealand's culture," Seymour said.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2023/08/newshub-nation-act-party-leader-david-seymour-says-new-zealand-s-wealth-gap-is-acceptable.html

    It's time to appreciate this guy is our Trump a total fantasist.

    One of the major difficulties Trillian experienced in her relationship with Zaphod was learning to distinguish between him pretending to be stupid just to get people off their guard, pretending to be stupid because he couldn't be bothered to think and wanted someone else to do it for him, pretending to be outrageously stupid to hide the fact that he actually didn’t understand what was going on, and really being genuinely stupid. He was renowned for being amazingly clever and quite clearly was so—but not all the time, which obviously worried him, hence, the act. He preferred people to be puzzled rather than contemptuous.”

    ― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/62659-one-of-the-major-difficulties-trillian-experienced-in-her-relationship

  10. Muttonbird 10
    5 August 2023 at 9:05 pm

    In Auckland today anti-trans activists hired a plane carrying a banner reading, "what is a woman.nz".

    I saw it from my house.

    • Visubversa 10.1
      5 August 2023 at 10:36 pm

      How come nobody asks "what is a man"?

      • Roy Cartland 10.1.1
        6 August 2023 at 5:16 am

        Because that is an utterly inane question, which everyone already knows the answer to (despite "man" having many more meanings than "woman").

        "Woman" is, or used to be /should be, very specific.

        • Visubversa 10.1.1.1
          6 August 2023 at 10:07 am

          Thank you, you have answered my question very evocatively. The answer is that men would not stand for it – they know what a man is and most of them know what a woman is also.

          The ones that pretend to not know do so out of expediency, cowardice, or ideological capture.

          And when even the question is described as "anti trans" you can see the results of that capture writ large.

      • bwaghorn 10.1.2
        6 August 2023 at 7:31 am

        Because a woman identifying as a man is highly unlikely to be a threat to a man in the toilets,the gym,prison or the sports feild.

    • Molly 10.2
      6 August 2023 at 10:56 am

      "…anti-trans activists " ?

      I'm guessing for you the only requirement for this designation, is to ask a question that exposes the incoherence, regressive stereotypes and misogyny when answered by gender ideologues.

      For example, let's look at one of 2023 Pulitzer Prize winner, Andrea Long Chu's definitions:

      "At the center of sissy porn lies the asshold, a kind of universal vagina through which femaleness can always be accessed….

      Distilling the femaleness to its barest essentials – an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes…" – Females, Andrea Long Chu 2020 book.

      Unable to link to book for quote, but there are reviews that paraphrase or mention this passage; https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/january-2020/sissy-porn-and-trans-dirty-laundry/

      Link to image with quote:

      • Muttonbird 10.2.1
        6 August 2023 at 7:46 pm

        That escalated quickly.

        • Anne 10.2.1.1
          6 August 2023 at 9:24 pm

          Alison Mau, Sunday Star Times 6th Aug. 2023

          “Spare a thought for trans Kiwis as the Posie Parker show returns.”

          In my view, Alison Mau is one of the best women journalists in the country. Super intelligent, forthright, honest and always cogent, she has written a brilliant exposé of Posie Parker.

          Ms Parker plans to return to NZ in September and hold a public meeting outside the District Court on the day a protester’s case is to be heard.

          Excerpt:

          Her choice of public spaces is deliberate. She knows crowds will gather in protest, potentially in greater numbers, and they will drown her out. This allows her to present herself as a victim, driving greater engagement, and gives the impression that women’s voices are being silenced.

          She is lying. Once upon a time women’s voices were not heard but those days have long gone. I can attest to that from personal experience.

          I cannot link to the article because it is for subscribers only. I choose to purchase the SST for my Sunday reading. If someone is a subscriber, could they please supply a link? Thank you in advance.

          • Molly 10.2.1.1.1
            7 August 2023 at 1:18 pm

            Anne,

            Does Alison Mau's article mention the fact that Kellie Jay Keen is returning to Auckland to attend the assault case in court?

            "Her choice of public spaces is deliberate."

            Yes. The UK has a right of public speaking. As we have seen in NZ, attempts to book venues – both public and private – have resulted in cancellations, that required legal action to redress; https://www.franksogilvie.co.nz/news/case-brief-whitmore-v-palmerston-north-city-council. So events are held in public spaces in the UK, and all regulations and permit requirements are met.

            "She knows crowds will gather in protest, potentially in greater numbers, and they will drown her out. "

            This is an interesting take.

            How many transgender supportive rallies or gatherings can make this claim about the women that attend #LetWomenSpeak events? How many such events have been derailed by masked middle-aged women with megaphones and speakers, carrying threatening messages?

            Is Kellie-Jay Keen so adept at manipulation that people who don't support her feel compelled to act in accordance with this supposed Machievellian intent?

            "This allows her to present herself as a victim, driving greater engagement, and gives the impression that women’s voices are being silenced."

            This is a bold statement to make, given that NZ women WERE silenced on 25 March in Albert Park. Not just by protestors, or by threats of violence but by violent acts. This disconnect of reality by those who are increasing untethered from what they know and see, is fascinating to watch.

            " I can attest to that from personal experience."

            Your attestation rings hollow. I had family at the event, and thankfully videographer Simon Anderson had the presence of mind to take his recording equipment with him on the day.

            Interpret the evidence provided as you will, but it remains clear to those who view without bias:

            https://www.youtube.com/@SimonRAnderson/videos

            • Anne 10.2.1.1.1.1
              7 August 2023 at 5:45 pm

              Posie Parker (the name she chooses to use on public sites) is a complete fake. She spreads disinformation and is using 'women' for her own ends. She consorts with extremists and doesn't really care a damn about anyone but herself.

              Alison Mau's columns in the SST are always insightful and she also always does her homework. Pity others do not follow her example.

              I sincerely hope she is not allowed into the country or failing that, she is prevented from holding meetings in public places she knows full well will end up causing anger and unrest. That is precisely what she is aiming to do because it brings her the attention she seeks for her personal gratification.

              • Molly …
                7 August 2023 at 6:41 pm

                Anne.

                Nothing you have said here is anything other than (non-evidenced) opinion.

                Nothing wrong with that. Especially, if it is acknowledged as such.

        • Molly 10.2.1.2
          7 August 2023 at 1:01 pm

          "That escalated quickly."

          2023 Pulitzer Prize winner quote provided by an author who has published a book called "Females" with more of the same, and you consider this one quote escalation, while not owning your own rhetoric:

          Muttonbird: "…anti-trans activists "

          The accurate definition of woman is not anti-trans – it just doesn't include men.

    • Shanreagh 10.3
      6 August 2023 at 12:04 pm

      MB Did you ever think of framing your post

      In Auckland today pro-women activists hired a plane carrying a banner reading, "what is a woman.nz".

      No of course you didn't.

      For some reason women (51%) seem only to figure in your view in relation to the miniscule trans community. Why is this?

      Is this your view of the importance of sex ie man/woman biological reality as opposed to who you identify with/as?

      So if I want to identify as a cat, it is more important in the scheme of things than my sex as a woman?

      • gsays 10.3.1
        7 August 2023 at 6:37 am

        "MB Did you ever think of framing your post

        In Auckland today pro-women activists hired a plane carrying a banner reading, "what is a woman.nz".

        No of course you didn't."

        That's how you frame it when you want to add more heat than light.

  11. newsense 11
    6 August 2023 at 12:54 am

    F the Herald- war-mongering liars since George Grey was the Guv’nor.

    Some people in New Zealand aren’t moving to Australia and didn’t buy a house there years ago!

    Some douche bag claims he’s victimised because he’s rich in NZ….but Australia taxes rich people much more heavily than we do and has a strong to virulent union culture which has a system of industry wide award wages. Chris- Joycey- Hipkins categorically ruled out subjecting the rich of NZ to such umbridge as a 45% top tax rate.
    Imagine political campaigning passing as journalism in NZ…F the Herald and the lazy born to rule pricks and (their faded red cowardly friends come to that) who rely on this kind of crap pile on rather than actually having morally defensible positions.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/media/02-08-2023/all-my-stuff-is-here-why-one-business-owner-is-bravely-not-moving-to-australia

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