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Open mike 05/05/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, May 5th, 2014 - 234 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

234 comments on “Open mike 05/05/2014”

  1. BLiP 1

    Is Judith Collins Rob Muldoon’s love child?

    • miravox 1.1

      I’m not sure, but I think she and Key share a top drawer as well as nasty friends and an uncanny likeness to the man.

    • well..he did put it about a bit…

    • Rosie 1.3

      Whoah, Jude that was one hell of a tanty you threw yesterday, and guess what Lady, its’ not the media’s fault Williamson lost his job, it’s Williamsons’ fault he lost his job.

      • phillip ure 1.3.1

        hey jude..!..don’t take it bad…

        ..take a milk-spill…and make it better..

        ..remember…to keep that rage-lid on tight..

        ..and will you now go dairy-free..?..go vegan..?

        ..to make it better ..better..better..oowww!!!!

        ..la-la-la-lalala-lah..la-la-lah…hey jude..!

        ..hey jude..!..don’t send that txt..!

        ..and stop threatening – to piss on the media..

        ..the only dirt – we want to see..

        ..is the name of that official…was it mr lee..?

        ..hey jude…yr in a hole..

        ..shouldn’t you really..stop digging..?

        ..we know …it’s getting under yr skin..

        ..but you deserve nothing better..

        ..sitting in yr oravida-sin-bin..

        …i really doubt you’ll be able to make it all..

        … better..better..better..etc..

    • Chooky 1.4

      BLip….lol!…she does look a bit like him and he did play around a bit!

      • bad12 1.4.1

        Talk of people looking like each other, the reporter at the center of ‘Crusher’s’ latest piece of verbal ugliness bares an uncanny resemblance to the Mana Parties Sue Bradford…

        • veutoviper 1.4.1.1

          Sue’s daughter.

          • Rosie 1.4.1.1.1

            Oh is she? I thought she had a remarkable resemblance to Sue. Thanks for the info.

            • veutoviper 1.4.1.1.1.1

              What I found ironic about Collins’ interview last night – apart from her bizarre behaviour – was that she was being interviewed by Brook Sabin (son of National MP Mike Sabin) and puts the boot into another offspring of a former MP.

              Ironic is the wrong word, but cannot think of the right one.

              • Rosie

                Thanks for the education this morning vv – I had been wondering about the Sabins as well!

                Yes, well ironic alright. Her rage must be so blind that she will lash out at anyone including the son of her comrade so to speak, or maybe she see’s the son’s challenge of her a betrayal of code. Who knows. She certainly has let the Ban- Shidhe out from under the hills though.

        • ianmac 1.4.1.2

          Seriously bad? Actually she is prettier than her mum.

          • bad12 1.4.1.2.1

            Just testing to see who is wide awake this morning…

          • yeshe 1.4.1.2.2

            unnecessary comment, seriously, ianmac.

          • phillip ure 1.4.1.2.3

            @ ianmac..

            not if you saw/knew her mother at that age..

            ..age weathers us all..

            ..tho’ i do think my son has it much more together than me at his age..

            ..on/in most levels/areas..

            ..(but then again..that’s a low bar..)

            • idlegus 1.4.1.2.3.1

              “age weathers us all” thanks phillip, love it. i have seen people from my past after not seeing them since their teens/early 20s & i think ‘jaysus, they got old!”, then i look in the mirror and & laugh at myself for being a bit of a dick.

          • Tracey 1.4.1.2.4

            really ianmac???

    • felix 1.5

      Hate-child.

  2. key has announced there will be no testing of legal-highs on animals..

    ..not rats..not rabbits..not dogs..

    (..nice to see some traction on what has been an outlier-issue..)

    ..now we should really look at all the other unnecessary-testing on animals..

    ..animals tortured/killed to test fucken dishwashing-liquids/make-up etc..

    ..everyone is ‘relaxed’ about that..?

    ..and the reasons these torturing-scum don’t use the computer-modelling tests available to them..

    ..instead of these horrible torturings/killings of animals..

    ..is ‘cos of cost..

    ..it is cheaper to torture the animals instead…

    ..how fucken sick is that..?

    • Rosie 2.1

      Yes, it’s high time people knew that animal testing is more about profit than safety. There’s also no excuse to use to use household cleaners, make up and skin care that has been tested on animals when there is an excellent selection of such products on the market, all very good quality and many of them made in NZ.

      • Chooky 2.1.1

        +100 phillip and Rosie…and all in the name of ‘Science’

        ….and looks like John Banks has come up trumps on this one too….he is very very good on Morning Report

        • bad12 2.1.1.1

          ”Rats should be treated with dignity and respect”–Banks, sounds like another piece of self serving bullshit from the head rat Himself…

          • fender 2.1.1.1.1

            +1

          • Tracey 2.1.1.1.2

            its humans he doesnt give a rats arse about.

            • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.2.1

              nah..!..i have been head of the queue to pour buckets of shit over banks..

              ..on numerous occaisons/for numerous reasons..

              ..but on this issue..

              ..him being the only one to actually vote against animal-testing..

              ..(instead of just mouthing against it..then doing a neck-injury-threatening volte-face..

              ..and actually voting for it..eh..?..)

              ..banks is the only one standing tall..

              ..everyone else voted to torture/kill animals..

              ..to test legal-highs..

              ..the record stands..

            • Rodel 2.1.1.1.2.2

              Didn’t JB he make his millions in the food and booze business?

              • dunno..i’m not according him sainthood..

                ..he still eats them…

                ..(and seems to have a wee bit of a blind spot there…

                ..no to testing..yum!-yum! to eating them..)

                ..you will find that many of those 40,000 who signed that no-testing on animals petition..

                ..also have that banks’-mote in their eyes..

                • and speak of the banks’-mote..

                  ..russel norman is cooking dinner for john campbell..

                  ..chicken..

                  ..they no doubt tutt-tutted over animal testing..

                  ..as they ate that chicken..

                  ..eh..?

              • Chooky

                yes i think he had a chain of restaurants called Camelot…never saw any ratatouille on the menu though

                • @ chooky..

                  ..heh..!

                  • Chooky

                    re JB’s Camelot restaurants……yes i think they specialised in steak and chip wedges and had things like shrimp cocktail entrees…also I remember they had folksy stained glass lampshades hung low over the tables

          • Chooky 2.1.1.1.3

            rats are very nice intelligent creatures…and sensitive…we used to have pet rats kept in a cage in the laundry …when they died of old age i really missed them…they had a psychic presence which lingered….the kids used to keep rats in their pockets….my Mother used to keep another grandson’s pet rat in her kitchen too…although i rather drew the line at that

        • Murray Olsen 2.1.1.2

          Animal testing of cleaners and cosmetics is in the name of profit, not of science.

          • Chooky 2.1.1.2.1

            @ Murray Olsen

            ‘Science’ and ‘Profit’ are very much intertwined

            …atomisation, dissection, reductionism, experimentation, objectification, materialism = Science and scientific method …ever since Francis Bacon

        • Scott 2.1.1.3

          Very lucid, but how will that work when he is in court and his first words are “I don’t recall that”.

    • veutoviper 2.2

      Being a cynic, my take is that Key has had some polling done and now finds that he cannot stick with his original comment that rats OK; rabbits and dogs, not OK.

      The interview with John Banks on Morning Report was priceless! Much as I cannot stand the man as a politician, I know through personal experience that Banks has been longterm dedicated advocate for animal rights. But his take on Key’s backdown in this interview had me rolling on the floor laughing. “He looked deep into Moonbeam’s eyes ….”

      Key’s MR interview on animal testing

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594687/key-rules-out-using-animals-in-legal-high-safety-tests

      The must hear Banks one

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594698/no-animal-testing-for-herbal-highs

      • Scott 2.2.1

        Oh I always thought the cat was called moonshine, but if Key ever did look at it or play with it I am sure it would open him up.

  3. Scott1 3

    Phillip,
    goes to show that Cunliffe/Labour called it right in terms of their position on the issue. And yes it is a good opportunity to extend the debate.

    Labour has made a number of good calls lately on policy and political positions.

  4. Not a PS Staffer 4

    Steven Joyce is hiding the figures on how much money he is funnelling to his mates through his department.

    The NBR has been chasing it and so far all the department has said is that it paid out $231 million total in 2012/13 and another $97 million in 2013/14. MBIE is refusing to say how much is forecast or how the decisions are made.

    “The data on MBIE handouts excludes the nearly $400 million Mr Joyce’s New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE) will hand out in corporate welfare in John Key’s first three terms, and the $140 million a year handed out by the government’s Callaghan Innovation agency. There is also at least $50 million a year spent subsidising the tourism industry’s international marketing. God knows how much the Ministry of Primary Industries hands out to the farming sector. This all adds up to billions.” See http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/joyce-blocks-answers-corporate-welfare-bd-155317

  5. wyndham 5

    Bad12 always refers to our PM as “Slippery the prime minister”.
    If ever Bad needed confirmation of that description I suggest he listen to the Morning Report interview with Guyon Espiner.
    Mumble,mumble,obfuscation,change the suject,etc. It was all there. Slippery even went to the extreme of declaring that Judith Collins ‘is a human being’ !
    In my book, Collins is facing a stiff dose of “chickens coming home to roost”. She has been one of the Nacts most vicious bullies especially when she was in Opposition. Now under pressure she, like all bullies, is folding.

    • veutoviper 5.1

      Here is the link to Espiner’s interview with Key

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594684/pm-john-key-on-judith-collins

      And this is Brent Edwards’ take on the interview and Collins

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594685/collins-feeling-the-pressure

      This earlier Morning Report item is also related and worth listening to.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594677/judith-collins-faces-further-pressure.

      And a further item is currently on air with an interview with Grant Robertson on the further MFAT emails that have now been released on Collins’ “Oravita Tour”. It gets more and more clear that this was not just a cup of tea on the way to the airport.

      • wyndham 5.1.1

        Thanks Veuto – – – my computer savvy is limited !

      • wyndham 5.1.2

        An old adage has just come to mind : “Follow The Money.”

        No more needs to be said really.

      • Chooky 5.1.3

        +100 veutoviper …..Grant Robertson was superb on Morning Report…..GO Labour!

      • Rosie 5.1.4

        vv, I wonder if it’s going to be one of those weeks where one reaches for the popcorn.

        Several weeks ago on the regular Thursday morning Radio Active interview with Grant Robertson and Alistair Thompson, Robertson said there was more to be uncovered in the Collins – Oravida affair and he really has kept up the pressure on her since then. Alistair Thompson’s view was it a case if when, not if, in regard to Collins resigning. (My words not his, I’m paraphrasing and condensing the message).

        • veutoviper 5.1.4.1

          It certainly has got the feeling of a ‘popcorn’ week. Fingers crossed etc etc. Despite the grey Wellington day, I am feeling more positive on the political front than for months – hence the myriad of comments this morning! PG’s return had put me off coming here, but decided not to allow him to achieve that and just ignore him.

          Must google that Radio Live Interview. My instincts tell me that the Oravida affair has a lot more legs – and that appears to be the case this morning/

          • Rosie 5.1.4.1.1

            I understand the PG reaction, but glad that you can rise above it – it’s the best way. I have to admit that when Greywarbler suggested to move my Open Mike domestic violence comment on to Stephanie Rodgers article on Saturday I did plan to and then saw it was a PG maelstrom so chose not to.

            That interview btw, was on Radio Active and they don’t have their interviews available to listen to on line. they broadcast on line as well as on 88.6FM but that’s it.

            I should imagine this Thursday should be a very interesting discussion. They are usually on between 8.15am and 8.45am and the interview lasts up to 20 minutes. Just bear in mind it won’t be a RNZ format type interview. The facilitator is a DJ first and foremost (and an excellent one)

    • bad12 5.2

      Lolz, i need no such confirmation, Slippery was attached as a handle to the current Prime Minister around here even befor He assumed the position….

    • ianmac 5.3

      “She has been one of the Nacts most vicious bullies ….” Yes Wyndham. Hard to feel sympathy to a White Hawk Down, given the spite that she was pleased to dish when she was “up.”

  6. Rosie 6

    Thanks Drax and Warbs for your replies over the weekend to my comment about neighbours not calling 111 as Sarwen Lata was being murdered, on 25th November last year and apologies for the late response. (You’d be surprised at how busy the unemployed can be).

    You both made suggestions as to why folks might be disinclined to help a neighbour in crisis. I thought they were good points. It also made me think of the contrast in neighbourhood behaviour in a suburb where a friend lives. Everyone knows everyone and despite the area being a higher crime area, crimes are solved quickly as neighbours keep their eyes and ears open to activities in the street.

    Then this morning there was this article in the Dom Post which encourages migrant women to seek help but doesn’t discuss the importance of neighbours, and indeed family, friends and workmates keeping an eye on a potential victim of domestic violence. No woman should feel she is alone when she is feeling so unsafe.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/10007821/Migrant-women-urged-to-seek-help-to-stay-safe

  7. Rosie 7

    It’s going to be hard to top Todd Barclay in this week’s edition of “Dodgy Nat Candidate Watch” but new to the list is Brett Hudson, who was selected for Ohariu, last week. Here he is displaying the stunning ignorance that only a Nat can:

    ““National is working hard and delivering real progress for New Zealand families,” said Mr Hudson.”

    From http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1405/S00003/national-selects-brett-hudson-as-ohariu-candidate.htm

    I guess he’s “comfortable” with being Nat’s puppet for Ohariu

    • bad12 7.1

      Lolz, rid Ohariu of ‘the Hairdo’ Pathetic Dunne and electorate vote Hudson to change the Government should be the message…

      • Ennui 7.1.1

        This could actually be the lefts answer to the citizens of Epsoms cynical election of ACT…..vote the seat to National to keep United Fuckwit out…..splendid.

        • bad12 7.1.1.1

          Yep, there is at least one commenter here at the Standard that has said She/he will be campaigning in the Epsom electorate to get the National Party candidate elected,

          My bones wont allow me the luxury of letterbox stuffing otherwise i would print up a pile of ‘electorate vote Hudson for Ohariu’ pamphlets for that electorate,

          Neither Epsom or Ohariu are likely to favor a Labour candidate so some reverse tactics are probably the best means of ensuring National do not win in September…

          • Rosie 7.1.1.1.1

            Nat electorate vote in Epsom I understand bad, but Ohariu? And who would do that organising work to promote a vote for Hudson? Would it not be better to focus on the party that came closest last time?

            Hudson btw, a previous sales rep for Oracle. (actually they call them “ambassadors” now, lol) I know a guy who worked for that company and in the same role. Was on about 200K. This Hudson dude wouldn’t have a clue about what happens in the real world, all those guys in that industry are running in a status race, the house, the cars, the troty wives etc. Never has there been a truer stereotype.

            • Ennui 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Rosie, whilst I don’t disagree that Oracle sales people are overpaid and would probably not have a clue about real people, but there is another story here.

              In my company nothing moves unless somebody sells something. No sales means no delivering, lots of “expertise” in downtime mode costing a fortune. Everybody is valuable and some of that “expertise” due to supply and demand, restrictive practices etc get paid much more than the humble sales person. Yet the sales person is expected to keep the cash coming in, gets pressured, and has no job security unless that happens.

              To me (much to pretty much everybody else s disgust) sales people are the Gods of commerce. Nasty, materialistic collectors of flash cars and trophy wives maybe. But as they don’t get thanked greatly, for doing the hardest job they take the cash instead, (and I suspect vote National to rub it in).

              We live in a strange world!

              • Rosie

                Hi Ennui. I should declare that I have spent many years working as a sales rep previously, although my salary was $40K, not 200K, I should add!

                I do understand the vital role they play in keeping the company not only afloat but profitable. And yes indeed it is a thankless role and one that can tear the rep in two directions between customer and boss, if there isn’t enough support coming from above.

                I was being rather caustic about Brett Hudson but I do know his type and I don’t trust them one bit. I’ve no problem with people making money and lots of it. My problem is either how they obtain it, or how they display it, or how they use it as a power lever.

                That-person-I -know, he falls into the latter two categories. What is kind of annoying too, is the fact that he’s not particularly talented or intelligent in the realm of real life and social interaction (he’s shallow, dour and lacks a sense of humour) but he can sell, that’s where his skill lies.

                I’m sure he’ll know Hudson as they would have worked in the same office around about the same time (although I do need to check time lines) The funny thing is, this-person-I know once showed me photo’s of his colleagues property that he had for sale (excessively large and full of poor taste items) and accused him of the same, being shallow, whilst we sat there in his McMansion.

                A strange world indeed.

                • Ennui

                  Rosie, nice observations, you speak from experience. When you get to the cogs of commerce it is all rather basic and boring….I don’t know how anybody can study it, glorify it etc as anything other than transactions and dollars. The business pages drive me to distraction, economists seem to know nothing of what really goes on….all so dull. I hope you are enjoying better whatever you do today.

                  • Rosie

                    “I hope you are enjoying better whatever you do today.”

                    I really am laughing, as I am currently unemployed! I have gone for a couple of sales reppy type interviews but I felt myself glaze over as soon as they started with the corporate speak and knew my heart wasn’t in it. I can’t really bear flogging stuff any more. Also, pay and conditions have reduced for reps as a reflection of the retail market being so tight now. Many companies have removed a portion of the mileage allowance and I refuse to subsidise company costs by covering their fuel costs.

                    All I’ve really wanted to do is to be able to help others and what little formal education I have in this area, a community studies cert and a health psychology diploma isn’t even adequate for entry level work in the fields I’m interested in.

                    What I am enjoying doing with my “spare time” is helping out where I can with political activities here in Ohariu and looking after the abundance of wild ducks that hang around at my house.

                    I hope your chooks are well and happy.

      • Rosie 7.1.2

        Being the plant he is he doesn’t sound like he has any intention of seeking the electorate vote and said he would pursue the party vote.

        I do recall your suggestion and reasoning for a push for a Nat electorate vote but I think Charles Chauvel lost out by just approx 1800 ish votes last time so perhaps if enough hard work is done, Virginia Anderson can win it??? I’m feeling so cautiously confident of this that I’d be willing to put a 50 cent bet on it! (it would be more but I can’t afford it lol)

        Did you see that surprisingly good editorial from the right wing Romanos in the Wellingtonian last week? It was beaut. A hole proof argument for the resignation of Dunne. If the heat on Dunne keeps up it may be an easier job to unseat him than we’d expect.

        • bad12 7.1.2.1

          Yes Rosie, Charles Chauval lost by 1646 electorate votes in 2011, that was as a high profile Labour Party politician, in fact Pathetic Dunne’s majority went up by 640 votes from the 2008 result where Chauval came within 1006 votes of Dunne,

          National’s Katrina Shanks actually made those numbers look good for Chauval in those two elections and i doubt the relatively unknown Labour candidate will have the same amount of success as Charles Chauval did,

          From the Party Votes recorded it is easy to see that National Party supporters are fully conversant with ‘tactical voting’ splitting their party votes off to National while electorate voting for Dunne,

          my view is that the only slight chance for the Labour candidate to have any chance is to ensure,(if possible), that Hudson the National Party candidate gets a higher amount of the electorate vote,

          Whichever way i look at the Ohariu electorate that will be the decisive factor, in a large part of the electorate it may be easier to convince the ‘blue rinsers’ to vote National than to go against everything the ‘silver spoon’ they have supped from since birth has ingrained in them and vote Labour,

          A high turnout of the Electorate vote for both National and Labour may well see us rid of Dunne, a high turnout of the electorate vote for Labour alone tho i doubt will create enough of a swing to unseat him…

          • Rosie 7.1.2.1.1

            Thanks bad, that a helpful analysis. Yes, I had a look at the voting patterns for 08 and 11 a while ago and saw that the voters of Ohariu, like Epsom sure do know how to use MMP to suit their purposes.

            From Memory Shanks came a fairly poor third the last two times, so I can see how it would be ideal if those blue rinsers you speak of gave their vote to the sales rep and weaken Dunnes chances. Maybe this will happen naturally as Dunne becomes increasingly less popular in the electorate, purely for conservative moral reasons rather than political.

            Stephanie Rodgers said something once here on TS about being involved in the Labour campaign for Ohariu. Maybe she would like to offer her thoughts, I’m sure they would be welcome.

            • Stephanie Rodgers 7.1.2.1.1.1

              I am indeed involved in the Ohariu campaign – but it’s a complex topic! Virginia Andersen is a great candidate for Ohariu and I know we’re all working hard to win the electorate vote. No one expected National to field a particularly strong candidate for the obvious reasons. And a lot has happened for Peter Dunne since 2011.

              • Rosie

                Hi Stephanie and thanks. I bet it is a complex topic! And I’m assuming you may not be able to show the party’s hand, too much.

                Although I didn’t meet Virginia Anderson I did listen to what she had to say at a recent meeting PPO hosted in J’Ville to discuss the Employment Relations Amendment Act. She comes across as very intelligent, sharp and strong. I am impressed by her.

                Great to hear the campaign team has the wind in their sails – we’ll have you all to thank if we do it, if we turn this electorate red! Hey, what a party that would be, unseating Dunne after 30 years!

  8. Speaking of the young tobacco lobbyist, have you seen this yet?

    http://porcupinefarm.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/suck-on-this-suckers.html

    • Rosie 8.1

      Lol. Brilliant.

    • Gosman 8.2

      What is your point?

      • Weepu's beard 8.2.1

        I think the point is the lad saying he doesn’t encourage smoking, while lobbying for Phillip Morris.

        • Gosman 8.2.1.1

          Lobbying for a Tobacco company doesn’t necessarily mean you are attempting to encourage smoking. It is also not illegal. Frankly this smacks of the sort of witch hunting that used to be happen around membership of the Communist party in people’s youth. Just as I think it is ridiculous to focus on that I think it is ridiculous to castigate a potential candidate based on who he preciously worked for.

          BTW the linked to article and associated graphic doesn’t makes the point you are suggesting it does or at least not in a clear an unequivical manner.

          • Tracey 8.2.1.1.1

            are you ms collins chief political advisor?

          • framu 8.2.1.1.2

            “Lobbying for a Tobacco company doesn’t necessarily mean you are attempting to encourage smoking.”

            HA HA HA – good one gossamer

            ” I think it is ridiculous to castigate a potential candidate based on who he preciously worked for.”

            then you havent been paying attention at all have you – who he worked for is but one facet of the argument of why hes not fit for selection

            • Gosman 8.2.1.1.2.1

              I think it is a matter of the National party members of the electorate to decide whether he is a suitable candidate or not. It then becomes a matter for the voters of the electorate to decide if they think he is a suitable MP. Some left wing person on a blog has little influence over this.

              • Tracey

                you said that promoting the business of phillip morris didnt mean he was encouraging smoking, dont change it to occupations dont preclude people from being mps.

                two seperate issues.

                • Gosman

                  Take the example of the Prostitutes Collective. Someone working for this organisation does not mean they necessarily encourage the use of prostitutes or at least that more people should use one. There is a lot of issues you can advocate for without expanding the take up of what you advocate on.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Sophistry in extremis

                    More to the point, why are you accusing Barclay of not contributing to his corporate employer’s bottom line? Are you saying that he was a fraud in the job or just lazy?

                    • Gosman

                      Are you stating lobbying on behalf of the Prostitutes collective means you are encouraging the use of Prostitutes?

                      I have no idea of the work Mr Barclay did for the company. Do you?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Do you believe that young Barclay esq. felt any moral twangs about accepting tens of thousands of dollars from big Tobacco corporate Philip Morris?

                      Or do you believe that he slept easy the whole time, which is why he is such a good fit for the National Party?

                    • Gosman

                      I have no idea if he did or didn’t. I don’t particularly like many organisations but I don’t condemn people based on the fact people may have once worked for them. I understand that people are employed to do a job not to agree with the ideas or views expressed by the organisation they are part of.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      So you believe that Barclay probably had no moral qualms about accepting big tobacco money? I wonder what the principled burghers of Clutha Southland are going to make of a National Party who gave them such a poorly suited candidate.

                    • Gosman

                      This is obviously a golden opportunity then for a candidate of a left leaning party to win in Clutha Southland at the upcoming election. Do you want to have a wager on whether this will happen?

                    • framu

                      christ your an idiot gossamer

                      “Are you stating lobbying on behalf of the Prostitutes collective means you are encouraging the use of Prostitutes?”

                      well when the prostitutes collective starts selling prostitutes then your can compare them to phillip morris

                      the prostitutes collective advocates for their members – phillip morris sells t-backy

                    • Gosman

                      What is it that the members of the Prostitutes collective sell? I’d suggest advocating on their behalf is giving tacit support to what they do.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Well, National should pull the tobacco lobbyist from their candidate list, and give the people of Clutha Southland a serious choice, a candidate who knows about the issues of the electorate and understands farming, instead of sliding in a Big Tobacco lobbyist who is wholly unsuitable.

                    • Gosman

                      I’d suggest this is up to the National party and the members of the Clutha Southland electorate and not a hard core leftist like yourself to decide. Nice to see you so concerned about who should represent right leaning people. I myself would like left leaning people being represented by morons. Luckily for me that seems to be the case more often than not ;-)

                    • sheesh gossy..!..

                      ..just going on yr pot-prohibition-‘views’ in this thread..

                      ..you get the ‘moron’-gong today..

                      ..eh..? (insert-smiley..)

                    • RedLogix

                      Well I think we should give Gosman the benefit of the doubt.

                      After all he’s here advocating on behalf of the National Party – when clearly he doesn’t actually believe in a thing they stand for.

                    • McFlock

                      I’d suggest advocating on their behalf is giving tacit support to what they do.

                      No.
                      The difference is like that between a lawyer and a fence. Your tobacco lobbyest is more like the latter.

                      But then a person who’s cool with prostitution is doing nothing wrong, as well as nothing illegal.

                  • I don’t think you understand what the Prostitutes Collective does, Gosman.

              • framu

                no-one said otherwise – so again your inventing a point that was never mentioned in order to distract and derail

                we are all entitled to say and discuss what ever we feel like (unless your some jack boot statist of course – are you?) – and the eyebrows raised about that particular appt was as much about his age, connections to certain party members, overall work and life experience and the fact that the revolving door relationship between politics and industry lobbyists is usually considered a less than desirable situation – regardless of left or right

                it was never exclusively about phillip morris in and of itself

                either you know this and are playing your usual bullshit or your shooting your mouth off without knowing the issue
                one makes you a bit of a pain in the ass – the other makes you look like an idiot

          • Molly 8.2.1.1.3

            Lobbying for a tobacco company, given the outcomes for those who take up the dreaded weed, gives an indication that the person is unable to link personal actions to community and social responsibility.

            As a potential government representative for all demographics, who all need to have a long-term view of policy effects this is an “experience” that indicates a severe skill deficiency.

            • Gosman 8.2.1.1.3.1

              Really? So people who advocate for Marijuana normalisation would be in a similar boat in your mind I presume.

              • slight difference there gossy..

                ..tobacco kills..

                ..in many cases..cannabis heals/helps…

                • Gosman

                  Cannabis has the potential to cause the same sort of physical harm as Tobacco AND additional harm via long term psychological damage (especially when taken frequently at a young age). Don’y try and act like Cannabis is some life preserving wonder drug. We are not all as stupid as you might be.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Why do you think Barclay accepted a job with a Big Tobacco corporate? After all, Philip Morris’ products have caused millions of deaths worldwide over the last 50 or more years. Do you think Barclay considered that before he started accepting money from Philip Morris?

                    • Gosman

                      The same could be argued for any number of companies from Pharmaceutical distributors through to Confectionary manufacturers. Yes Tobacco is harmful to you but so is Homeopathy if you use it instead of proper medicine. I don’t think that should rule out people from becoming an MP if they worked as a Homeopath or in the industry just as i don’t think working as a lobbyist for a tobacco company carrying out their business in a legal manner should rule you out from public office.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      So did Barclay experience moral doubts about accepting Big Tobacco corporate cash, or do you think that he was paid enough by Philip Morris that he found that he could ignore any minor moral qualms that he may have had?

                    • Gosman

                      Tobacco distribution is not illegal in this country. Therefore Mr Barclay has done nothing wrong working for a company involved in this sector. You might not like it but I suspect you won’t be involved in deciding if he is elected to parliament.

                    • McFlock

                      Tobacco distribution is not illegal in this country. Therefore Mr Barclay has done nothing wrong working for a company involved in this sector.

                      No, he has merely avoided doing anything illegal.

                      Although it’s revealing that you should confuse the two. Especially if we remember that, legally speaking, everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Which means that (in your worldview) if one can get away with murder one has done nothing wrong…

                    • Gosman

                      Only in your perverted view of the world. Someone can get away with murder if they think they are acting in self defence though so in essence you do raise an interesting, if irrelevant, point. What this has to do with Mr Barclay’s previous job is unclear though.

                    • McFlock

                      You said it was not illegal therefore it is not wrong.
                      Murder is illegal, but proving it is another matter.
                      And murderers are innocent until proven guilty under the law.

                      Someone can get away with murder if they think they are acting in self defence though

                      You’re an idiot. If it’s self defense, it’s not murder. According to the law, anyway (cf: s160 and s48 of the same Act).

                      The point I’m getting at is that your definition of “wrong” rests solely on legality. It’s almost as if you have no internal set of ethical principles which guide your actions, legal or otherwise. I.e. completely amoral.

                  • could you plse give some evidence/links of cannabis causing cancer…?

                    ..and yr ‘ long term psychological damage’..?

                    here is mine..

                    http://whoar.co.nz/?s=medicinal+marijuana+

                    (..and here is an excerpt from one..)

                    “..“..Any day now – Alabama – which was ranked the most conservative state in the country by Gallup last year –

                    will become the first state in the South to legalize a type of medicine derived from marijuana.

                    When “Carly’s Law” or Senate Bill 174 – arrived in the state House of Representatives at 2 a.m. on March 21-

                    politicians on both sides of the aisle reportedly stood up and began chanting for the bill to pass.

                    The measure – which received unanimous support in both chambers –

                    will fund a $1 million study at the University of Alabama –
                    on the effectiveness of cannabidiol in treating seizure disorders.

                    But the “Heart of Dixie” isn’t the only Southern state opening up to the possibility that cannabis may have medicinal value.

                    Here are some others fighting to pull back the veil on medical weed:..”

                    (‘carly’ is a young girl who used to suffer hundreds of seizures a year..

                    ..and no conventional medicines worked to ease that..

                    ..but cannabis oil does..)

                    ..and i see you never went to a waste-station during yr absence..

                    ..you’re still full of waste-material..eh..?)

                    • Gosman

                      http://www.cancernz.org.nz/assets/files/smokefree-resources/IS_TC_Cannabis&Cancer_9Sept2010.pdf

                      “The effects of cannabis on health have not been studied anywhere near as much as those of tobacco smoking. However, a review has concluded that the airways of cannabis smokers have changes that indicate cancer risk , for example, “chronic inflammatory” and “pre-cancerous changes”.
                      This review also found one well-designed study that suggested that cannabis smoking caused cancer in the upper airways of young adults, and that the risk was highest in the most frequent users.”

                      Therefore there is evidence that it does have the potential to cause the same sort of physical harm as smoking Tobacco. You may disagree the risk is as high or that the evidence is not compelling but there is no doubt evidence.

                    • correction..those ‘hundreds of seizures every year’..

                      ..should read ‘every day’…

                    • gosman..yr bullshit claims are blown away by the fact that we now have a great many people who have smoked a lot of cannabis for a long time..

                      ..but there is no blip in lung cancers etc..from these people..

                      ..the same with yr ‘psychological-harm’..rubbish..

                      ..pot makes you schitzo! has long been the prohibitionist-claim/lie the likes of you peddle..

                      ..yet once again..the facts/stats blow that one away too..

                      ..’cos as with those decades of heavy cannabis use not showing cancer-outcomes..in those users..

                      ..the ‘schitzo’-levels in the population are about the same now..

                      ..as they were before the wholesale uptake of cannabis in the 60’s..

                      ..you really are just blowing hot-air..aren’t you..?

                    • Gosman

                      What you are stating is you disagree with the conclusion of that review. That is fine. You don’t have to believe it. Just as some people don’t agree with lots of scientific conclusions. You can’t deny that there is some evidence linking the use of Cannabis and increased risk of cancer though. It exists.

              • Molly

                Phil said what I would’ve if I’d returned earlier.

                Marijuana normalisation is advocated mostly by those who will not benefit from changing the legislation, using studies to back up their claims.

                Tobacco lobbyists are highly paid liars who do benefit from continued use and whose employers suppressed for many years scientific studies that showed devastating and ongoing harm from the use of their products.

                Also, ignore the fact that nicotine was added specifically to make it addictive thereby ensuring the continuation of use for the whole of their customer’s shortened life.

                Are you able to distinguish differences or do you need a return to basics?

                • Gosman

                  I’d suggest this is based purely on your own personal prejudices and not on any evidence supporting the view that everyone who works as a lobbyist for a Tobacco company is a liar. If you can provide evidence that Mr Barclay knowingly lied during his time working for the Tobacco company in question though you will have won the argument. Have you such evidence?

                  • framu

                    notice how your avoiding the substance of all discussion with you in order to focus on hair splitting?

                    • Gosman

                      The focus on the discussion is what excatly? Is it that Tobacco use is bad for you and society generally and therefore anyone who has worked for a company involved in that sector is bad and therefore is not fit for public office? As I pointed out that is a ridiculous position to hold.

                  • what’s to lie about..?

                    ..he’s/they’re just peddling death..

                    ..they are in a dirty/death-peddling-addiction-industry..

                    ..surely you aren’t denying that fact..?

                    ..heroin dealers don’t need to lie either..

                    ..their product does all the talking for them…

                    ..it’s that captive-addict-audience they both service..

                    ..and there..the addiction is all..

                    • Gosman

                      There is evidence that pure Heroin is not that physically harmful to you. It is the adulturated substance that causes problems.

                    • i agree it is the adulterants that fuck junkies up..

                      ..if they were able to register as heroin addicts..and get pure-product..

                      ..the harm-minimisation results would be significant..

                      .this is what switzerland does..

                      ..heroin addicts pick up one dose on the way to work..

                      ..and another on the way home..

                      ..criminals aren’t in the picture..

                      ..and of course there is no crime needed to be committed by those addicts to feed a blackmarket-addiction..

                      ..the purity-thesis is also confirmed by doctors who get hooked on their product..ie pure morphine..whatever..

                      ..yes..they get the addiction..

                      ..but they don’t suffer the physical-wasting junkies relying on blackmarket-supplies do..

                      ..but we are a long way from any such outbreak of sanity here..

                      ..where/when the most conservative southern states in america are unanimously passing such a law..for pot..

                      ..and yet here we can’t even get fucken medical-marijuana over the line..

                      ..let alone sane policies around other drugs/addiction-issues..

                      ..our political leaders are both clowns..and fools..

                      ..’scared’ little people..

                    • yet we have this harmful/legal-high crap coming out our ears..

                      ..and the most harmful drug of all..alcohol..

                      ..normalised/peddled in ads on television..

                      ..aarrgghh!!

                      ..the lunatics have taken over the asylum..

                      ..and of course..some of the most strident opponents to ending cannabis prohibition..

                      ..are those who ‘own’ dung…the booze-pushers..

                      ..they well know that decriminalised-cannabis will see a major move away from their dangerous/addictive ‘product’..

                      ..it’s all about ‘preserving-market’ for them..eh..?

                      ..and ‘their men’ dung/key etc..

                      ..as always..when seeking the/any real story..

                      ..follow the money..

                  • Barclay lobbied on behalf of Big Tobacco, against the Government’s “attempts” to restrict the harmful effects of smoking on New Zealanders. Now, he plans to join the Government on the other side of the argument. Comfortable about that, are you? It doesn’t have to be illegal to be wrong. Remember “legal highs/synthetic cannabis”?
                    There are other ways of measuring right and wrong. Barclay chose to side with the pedlars of nicotine and now he wants to govern us. His background will worry many people, especially those who have lost family members to the various cancers cigarette smoking causes.

                    • Gosman

                      Do you have evidence of what his current views on Tobacco usage are and that he will be pushing the Tobacco company point of view forward if he becomes an MP?

                    • We know he supported the actions of Philip Morris – unless of course, he was dishonest with them and they paid him under false pretences. If he didn’t support their kaupapa, he’s a hypocrite – not the sort of person you’d want representing you in Parliament. If he did side with the tobacco pedlars, he was actively working against the best interests of new Zealanders – not the sort of person you’d want representing you in Parliament.

                    • Gosman

                      Not the sort of person you’d want to represent you in parliament – Are you a resident of the Cluth Southland electorate then?

                      By the way, even assuming he was a big supporter of increased tobacco usage (there doesn’t seem to be any evidence supporting this though) he can change his mind. I believe a number of politicians may have had radically different views when younger. Phil Goff springs to mind.

                    • I’ve lived in Southland for 28 years. The Southlanders I’ve spoken with on this issue are disgusted that the National Party have served up this tobacco lobbyist. None will vote for him.

                      edit: Different views when he was younger!
                      Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
                      !
                      He resigned from Philip Morris last week!

                      Younger!

                      Pathetic.

                    • Gosman

                      Excellent. Care to wager that National will lose the electorate then?

                    • It’s always been said that a fence-post would win Clutha/Southland for National (been proved true too). Your comment/wager has no bearing on the quality of the tobacco lobbyist/candidate or his ethical standards, which are being described around here as non-existent.

                    • Gosman

                      So not enough people in the Clutha Southland electorate care enough about the issue to vote for an alternative candidate then. Case closed.

                    • ‘So not enough people in the Clutha Southland electorate care enough about the issue to vote for an alternative candidate then. Case closed.’
                      Not enough people care about the issue?
                      Nonsense statement from Gosman. The election has not taken place yet, so you can’t know.
                      The ‘case’ is far from closed.
                      Case wide open and looking less than secure for what might have been an easy-win for a candidate who hadn’t recently quit a job in an industry that most people regard as odious. Let’s remember, it’s “most people”, not you, Gosman, who will decide whether Barclay is suitable for representing Southlanders in parliament. I’m hearing a lot of, “Hell no!”

                    • Gosman

                      Then have the wager with me. I’ll even give you odds of 2 to 1.

                    • McFlock

                      what is it about tories and gambling?
                      Is your opinion worthless unless it gets you money?

                  • Molly

                    Tobacco lobbyists in order to sell their product by necessity are “economical with the truth” ( admittedly my definition of a liar, perhaps not yours ) or they are a really ineffective lobbyist, one who would be fired fairly quickly.

                    He did not mention that he was a bad lobbyist – so I am also assuming he was fairly competent in the role.

                    But you are right Gosman – just because I don’t have a transcript of all his commercial utterings I cannot prove that he lied (even by my definition) in any specific incident.

                    Just as I cannot prove that any baker has put active yeast into all his bread products – but if he didn’t, his failure would be fairly noticeable.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      He did not mention that he was a bad lobbyist – so I am also assuming he was fairly competent in the role.

                      Not likely – just 9 months in the role, he’d probably only learnt where the toilets were and what home time was.

                      For a new graduate a corporate affairs role takes 2-3 years to get any basic competence at, and that’s with proper mentoring.

                  • Paul

                    Are you the only right winger on duty today?
                    What’s your view on the Collins debacle?

                    • McFlock

                      he’s just been bottling it up for a while. Normal destructive service will be resumed shortly :)

                    • Gosman

                      She should have resigned when this first came out. End of story.

                    • felix

                      She should only resign if it came out?

                      There’s that moral vacuum again.

      • Paul 8.2.2

        Thought you guys had gone to ground…..

        • Tracey 8.2.2.1

          they are recovering from the national party conference this weekend. i suspect some of them have no memory of the weekend.

    • Tracey 8.3

      hehehe

      and you know he sums up a few nat ministers right now,

      “its just a job”

      … ethics dont come into it.

    • Daveosaurus 8.4

      Or it could be that Johnny No-Mates has given up on trying to get Colin Craig into Auckland and has told the Conservatives to have a scout around the churches in Clutha to see if there’s a potential candidate down there. After all, if Todd the Toddler loses the seat it will be no great loss to the Nats as long as they get a Conservative in his place…

  9. Akldnut 9

    I’ve managed to locate the words to National’s “Party” song.
    It was heard being sung at the end of their recent conference while they were eating Hors d’oeuvres and clinking champagne flutes. Feel free to join in.

    It goes like this………eeeerm….eeeerm.

    It’s time to play the music
    It’s time to light the lights
    It’s time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight.

    It’s time to put on makeup
    It’s time to dress up right
    It’s time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight.

    Why do we always come here
    I guess we’ll never know
    It’s like a kind of torture
    To have to watch the show

    Chorus
    And now let’s get things started
    Why don’t you get things started
    It’s time to get things started
    On the most sensational Aspirational celebrational Muppetational
    This is what we call the Muppet Show!

    Instrumental Break

    [MC]To introduce our guest star
    That’s what I’m here to do
    So it really makes me happy
    To introduce to you (drum roll)

    Shonnnnnnnn Keyyyyyyyyy!!!

    Chorus
    And now let’s get things started
    Why don’t you get things started
    It’s time to get things started
    On the most sensational Aspirational celebrational Muppetational
    This is what we call the Muppet Show!

  10. freedom 10

    Bit of help?

    This page has a clear date stamp of today… but all the comments are apparently from a year ago ???
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/wr-opening-salvo-dump-rental-properties-now-lf-133603

    Is the article itself a year old, in which case where is the correct publication date NBR?

    Or is NBR just being really green and recycling comments ?

    • bad12 10.1

      That is a bit of a head-scratcher isn’t it, Hooton talking of David Shearer as the leader of the Labour Party,

      Perhaps this is a re-print of something wee Matty previously wrote, a little trumpet blow in Hooton’s direction to show how clever Matty is at seeing the future,

      What will drive more than a few out of ‘rental investments’ is the Labour plan to plug the loophole where such ‘investors’ get to right off any losses incurred on the property against other taxable income,

      i don’t know the numbers of people who piled into ‘rental investments’ based upon the taxes on ‘other income’ they could write off against the properties but the numbers i would suggest are high and the closing of this tax loophole will force more than a few to divest themselves of rental properties…

    • Matthew Hooton 10.2

      Don’t even remember it. Must have been a while ago.

      • freedom 10.2.1

        Thanks for replying Matthew, I think you would agree it is very sloppy presentation of information. Especially for a publication of the NBR’s stature. Would you be so kind as to mention this to your editors?

        You could imagine the kerfuffle if PG tried to use it to establish a fact. He is bound to try to establish a fact one day, and I would hate for something like a publishing date to trip him up.

        • Matthew Hooton 10.2.1.1

          I agree with the worrying impact on Pete George and will pass on the suggestions you raise.

        • veutoviper 10.2.1.2

          “You could imagine the kerfuffle if PG tried to use it to establish a fact. He is bound to try to establish a fact one day, and I would hate for something like a publishing date to trip him up.”

          Wonderful – has to win as comment of the day!

    • Must be a glitch – if you click on ‘More articles by Matthew Hooton’ it takes you to a page of articles by David Cohen.

  11. amirite 11

    Judith Collins has just confirmed that she will not resign. Good!
    The chances of Left coalition winning the election just skyrocketed.

    • i’m torn..

      i want to see her gone..sacked/fired..

      ..but i also want her as a stinking/rotting albatross around keys’ neck..

      ..all the way thru to the election..

      ..the recycling options from/with the collins are both potent and ongoing..

  12. ianmac 12

    John Armstrong has emerged from the shadows….
    “But Key’s reference to the length of the conversations has to be regarded as another way of him saying he canvassed various options with respect to her immediate future as a minister.

    For Key not to have offered Collins some much-needed respite from the intense scrutiny that she has been under for weeks would have been neglectful of not just National’s interests, but of Collins’ as well.

    Clearly Collins is very much in the wrong place mentally right now. That is plainly evident after she lashed out at TVNZ’s Katie Bradford yesterday, only to to subsequently issue a public apology to the political reporter.

    Key this morning described Collins’ outburst at the press gallery journalist as being “completely inappropriate”. He added that Collins would be “very careful going forward”.

    The trouble is every time Collins moves one step forward, her reputation takes five steps back. Rather than endeavouring to close down the whole farrago prompted by her highly-questionable dealings with the milk exporting company Oravida, Collins says or does something to further inflame matters……”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11249704

    • Akldnut 12.1

      The real problem is that Slippery Key moves the goalposts after she gaffes.
      Firstly he says she’s on her last warning then when she fucks up he says the warning was for a different topic! Opening the door for a “three strikes” wet bus ticket for all of his ministers every time there’s a screw up screwing up.

  13. Not a PS Staffer 13

    Perhaps what we are seeing is a cathartic civil war in the National Party.

    Joyce, with all the gifts of MBIE to help him win support among business backers of National, is getting aid from McCully (fast OIA responses) and others to weaken Collins.

    Collins, with the gift of self-belief and popularity among grass-root Nats, is willing to risk all, including the election, to gain control.

    Labour should leave them space on the front pages!

    • Tracey 13.1

      interesting take on it ps. espesh the mccully mfat connection to oias.

      and mccully and joyce have been np strategists for some time.

      its always interesting to see who says nothing at times like these.

      thanks for yoyr thoughtful observation.

      now, back to oriveida and something to stick to that lovely mr key.

      • Not a PS Staffer 13.1.1

        Groser has helped trip up Collins also. The short wee mon is very traditional and would NOT cope with having a woman, Collins, as his boss. He is definitely in the Joyce Camp now.

        The short wee mon will also be getting it in the ear from Fonterra. Fonterra will also have been chatting with John Key and Bill English.

        Imagine how Fonterra are feeling: Collins goes into bat for another trader who wants to make hay in China from Fonterra’s botulism crises! Fonterra spent a few $100m opening the market and Oravida wanted to sneak in via the back door!

        Collins has pissed off Fonterra, the biggest lobbyist in Parliament.
        Therefore Collins has pissed off Federated Farmer, the second biggest lobbyist in Parliament.

        If those two go public with their annoyance every Fonterra shareholding farmer will see Collins as a TRAITOR.

        She is so close to going. Key must be afraid of how she will behave if she is fired.

        • freedom 13.1.1.1

          How are Collins and Finlayson?

          Finlayson does seem to be gliding through very quietly of late.

          Surely our Attorney-General would be a good person for a comment on the Cabinet Rules?

          • Wyndham, George 13.1.1.1.1

            Finlayson would find both Collins and Joyce odious. He would wish both of the ill, IMO.

            • freedom 13.1.1.1.1.1

              so let’s hope some media type person ‘innocently’ gets him on record about the Cabinet Rules :)

        • Tracey 13.1.1.2

          thanks ps.

  14. “Lobbying for a Tobacco company doesn’t necessarily mean you are attempting to encourage smoking.”

    Being a member of The Mighty Mongrel Mob doesn’t mean you support the activities of your fellow mobsters either, does it, Gosman.

    • Gosman 14.1

      If the Mongrel Mob activities are legal then there is nothing wrong with belonging to them. It is only when people carry out illegal activities under the Mongrel mob banner that belonging to them becomes an issue.

      • Molly 14.1.1

        Do you take an equivalent stance on our involvement in the Five Eyes network?

        • Gosman 14.1.1.1

          Yes

          • Molly 14.1.1.1.1

            Guess that is a reply to 14.1.1 above.

            That also makes you culpable in terms of being a citizen of one of those governments.

            Do you claim that culpability or do you acknowledge that personal control of those organisations to which we all belong plays a part in our guilt by association?

            (Moved as sensibly suggested by Gosman 16.1.1.1)

            • Gosman 14.1.1.1.1.1

              I don’t think one automatically leads on to the other. For example in war a nation can carry out some dreadful actions like the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo or the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That does not mean all citizens of the nations making up the Allies in the war are culpable for these decisions or that the war itself is suspect because of them.

              • Tracey

                a person employed to lobby for a tobacconist is not just a citizen wandering by.

              • freedom

                Gosman, do you believe the 23 year old, Todd Barclay, who has only ever worked in Government Minister’s offices and lobbied for a tobacco firm has enough life experience to be an MP where his job is to represent the full cross-section of the electorate?

                • Gosman

                  He is not looking at becoming a list MP but an electorate one. It is not for me to decide if he is suitable or not as I don’t live in his electorate. If the people of his electorate decide to vote for him who am I to quibble about his supposed lack of experience.

                  • Hi Gosman,

                    I don’t think freedom was asking you to decide Barclay’s political fate (you can’t, as you point out) but, instead, was inviting you to express what you believe about his life experience in relation to the tasks of an electorate MP.

                    • Gosman

                      The beauty of democracy is we leave it up to the voters to decide the suitability or otherwise of a candidate. As for if I would vote for him. I don’t know a lot about him or his opponents. He does seem a little on the young and inexperienced side but that does not necessarily preclude you from being a good electorate MP. Certainly the fact he worked as a lobbyist for a Tobacco company doesn’t rule him out as far as I am concerned.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      The beauty of democracy is we leave it up to the voters to decide the suitability or otherwise of a candidate.

                      So you believe that the principled burghers of Clutha Southland should have been given a choice of decent National Party candidates, instead of having a tobacco industry lobbyist served to them from Wellington on a blue platter?

                    • Gosman

                      I don’t believe I stated that at all.

                    • freedom

                      ok Gosman, let’s look at Colonial Viper’s question from a different angle.

                      Should National Party members of Clutha-Southland be given a choice about who becomes their candidate?

                    • Gosman

                      Is the way Mr Barclay is being selected as a candidate outside National party rules on candidate selection? If the answer to that is no then what is the problem here again? If the National party voters in the electorate don’t like the candidate they are free to vote for a candidate of another party. This seems to me to be a perfect opportunity for other candidates to take advantage of. Assuming of course the majority of voters in the electorate care enough about the issue. Do you think they will vote for another candidate?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I’d like to see who else in the National Party put their hand up for the job of candidate for Clutha Southland; you can bet there would be a few amongst them who would make our inexperienced tobacco lobbyist look properly shallow in comparison.

                    • Gosman

                      Why do you care who National selects as a candidate anyway? If this wasn’t a left wing blog what you are doing would be termed concern trolling.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      It’s not that I care so much (and I actually do know a lot of voters who live in the Clutha Southland), it’s that I am amazed that you care so little about the appalling Big Tobacco choice of candidate that National HQ has served up on a plate to that electorate.

                  • freedom

                    I have not said a word about voting Gosman. I was clearly pointing to the candidate selection process. I just find it funny when supposedly intelligent people defend a candidate selection system where the members’ views are deemed irrelevant and yet these same people are somehow represented, by submitting to an arbitrary decision by their Party leaders that they, the members, had no input into.

                    Good thing I gave up trying to understand National voters a long time ago, even the ones I love. Some might say you should never fully understand your friends, or your family, it takes away all the mystery.

                    • Gosman

                      National is by far and away the most successful political party in NZ since the end of the second world war. You might not understand their internal processes or why people support them but you can’t deny that it seems to work for them. I am sure they don’t give two hoots what a bunch of largely hard core leftists think of them.

              • Draco T Bastard

                That does not mean all citizens of the nations making up the Allies in the war are culpable for these decisions…

                Actually, that’s exactly what being a democracy means.

              • Molly

                “I don’t think one automatically leads on to the other.”14.1.1.1.1
                “It is only when people carry out illegal activities under the Mongrel mob banner that belonging to them becomes an issue.14.1

                A bit of a contradiction there. But I do agree with your statement at 14.1.1.1.1 because fundamentally, regardless of whether you are a member or not, – your personal input or control of the decisions made by that organisation – make up a large part of whether you are responsible for those decisions or not. Mongrel Mob member, MP or democratic citizen.

                Unfortunately, some of these organisations are set up to look like you have equal power to another but in actuality do not deliver.

                • Gosman

                  No contradiction at all as far as I can see. Perhaps you will explain why you think one exists.

                  • ScottGN

                    Gosman – for some reason I can’t reply to your comment above regarding National’s electoral success in the post-world war 2 era? You are, strictly speaking, right though much of that success comes from exploiting the FPP gerrymander. In the MMP era National and Labour so far have 3 terms each.

      • framu 14.1.2

        legallity isnt part of the question captain deflection

        • Colonial Viper 14.1.2.1

          certain types get too easily mixed up between the concepts of ‘what is moral’, and ‘what is legal.’

          • Gosman 14.1.2.1.1

            Morally I think selling Homeopathy or most other types of CAM products/remedies is reprehensible. Does that mean people involved with this sector should be denied the opportunity of becoming an MP?

            • phillip ure 14.1.2.1.1.1

              the thing is with homeopathy..there..gossy..

              ..is that farmers who have vets that use it..

              ..see how effective it can be..

              ..and i don’t think animals are subject to the placebo-effect..

              ..(i also have seen it work wonders on dogs..)

              ..i’m no expert on the subject..

              ..but just those vet-facts/personal-experiences..

              ..give me pause for thought..

            • McFlock 14.1.2.1.1.2

              Who’s denying anyone the opportunity of becoming an MP?

              The tobacco lobbiest is allowed to run.
              So is Aaron Gilmore.

              But for either to be nominated would show tory arrogance. A lot of that’s been coming to light, lately.

              • Gosman

                Only to hard core leftists like you. People like me don’t think it is arrogant.

                • felix

                  Arrogant people don’t think arrogant people are arrogant?

                  Fuck me.

                • framu

                  “Who’s denying anyone the opportunity of becoming an MP?”

                  you keep saying it and when directly confronted on the issue you go all quiet

                  so i will ask the same question – Who’s denying anyone the opportunity of becoming an MP?

                  your being really weak on this one

  15. Tracey 15

    first home owners in auckland, based on neither owner having bought a home before or held a mortgage before, are paying $200 a week more than counterparts outside auckland.

    but they dont get $200 a week more from similar jobs to counterparts.

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/editors-picks/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503539&objectid=11249447

    • Colonial Viper 15.1

      This is what you get for having more than 30% of the country’s population squashed into less than 0.3% of the country’s land area.

      As an added benefit, it depopulates and economically degrades all the other regions of the country. You would have thought given these facts that just a little teensy bit of central planning might be in order to even things out a bit, but no, every political party seems determined to make Auckland even bigger and denser than it is now.

  16. Right, a little update.

    Despite badgering me for weeks whilst I was on sick leave, and on three occasions questioning the veracity of my Doctor’s certificates, after my disciplinary hearing on Monday, at 5.58 pm on Friday, I finally got confirmation through I was sacked.
    Not surprised at the outcome, but still gutted none the less. Cancelled my wff payments so I don’t get overpaid, booked up my ‘working for me seminar’ at winz, and ready to do what I can to get back in to work.

    I don’t know what options I have, other than full hearing and more costs I can’t pay or walk away and take the hit, but I’ll decide after consultation with the brief later today. It appears a pervy old man can’t buy my silence, but can buy protection for his reputation.

    Better off out of it, but what a way to go.

    • Molly 16.1

      Bugger.

      Wishing you all the best for this next stage.

      • Gosman 16.1.1

        Yes

        • Molly 16.1.1.1

          Guess that is a reply to 14.1.1 above.

          That also makes you culpable in terms of being a citizen of one of those governments.

          Do you claim that culpability or do you acknowledge that personal control of those organisations to which we all belong plays a part in our guilt by association?

          • Gosman 16.1.1.1.1

            For some reason it was appearing down here even though I replied to you above. To keep this sensible repost your question above.

    • Rosie 16.2

      Really sorry to hear of the outcome for you The AIlen. Good luck for your post consultation decision making on what to do next and all the best for your next move.

      It really is disheartening how dodgy employers get away it, again and again. I’ve seen it happen so many times to others and have been the victim of dodgy bosses twice in a row – its so wrong that your experience is not uncommon.

      Hope you find something nice to treat yourself to today.

      Kia Ora.

      • Chooky 16.2.1

        +100…good luck The Allen!

      • veutoviper 16.2.2

        +1. I was trying to find the right words of support for you, the Al1en; but Rosie has said it much better. I am thinking of you, as I am sure many others here are. I have been through similar but the fact that others have been down the same road does not make it any easier at the time. But you will get through. It has been obvious to me reading your posts on this issue. Kia Kaha. Keep us up to date.

      • miravox 16.2.3

        +1 and take care of yourself Al1en.

    • freedom 16.3

      Take the high road Al1en, it has better views and it’s always best to avoid the hassle of stumbling over messed up riverbeds. As you say, there does not appear to be any rewards in battling further. Do remember though, you can now freely offer advice to people as to whether they should use that particular business or not. There are lots of legal ways to adjust someone’s business reputation. I am not a spiteful person but have certainly had the unquestioning generosity of my youth sorely tested these past few years.

      Look after yourself, and when jumping the WINZ hoops, breath deep and let the pointless busywork ahead be a positive challenge. There is a job out there. I keep getting told there is. Problem seems to be WINZ are talking to us all about the same job ;)

    • Tracey 16.4

      best of luck with the job hunt.

    • Bill 16.5

      Mediation costs nothing and there is absolutely no reason to be represented by a lawyer. If you choose to be represented by a lawyer, then they can claim costs as a part of any confidential settlement.

    • The Al1en 16.6

      Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement.

      I didn’t get a call back from my guy, so haven’t heard his considered opinion yet, but hope to tomorrow. The worst thing about the outcome is knowing I didn’t really do anything wrong, got victimised and then assaulted, and have been dismissed on the ‘evidence’ of witnesses I know weren’t present at the time.
      Realistically, without being Rumpole of the Bailey, I know I can’t rip the truth out from these people. I couldn’t even get my ex boss to speak during the kangaroo court. Two and a half hours and he said nothing, just stared in to any space except my eye line.
      I am full of contempt for this tool, but still bound by confidentiality, so naming and shaming isn’t an option as yet. I do have the privacy commission to fall back on, which is free to apply to, so that will probably be my next move, but first to get that job.

      Thanks again.

  17. captain hook 17

    gosman you are just being silly and throwing red herrings around. Whats his name from dipton is just a silly little twerp but you wont admit it.

  18. Explosive new art show exposes Auckland’s revolutionary labour history: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/building-bombs.html

  19. Mary 19

    Good to see the government’s helping the poor live on air:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/10010529/Budgeting-services-to-get-a-boost

    Soon people will be so good at managing their finances benefits won’t be needed at all. If fact, I’m surprised Bennett isn’t saying something like “we really want to support people manage their money so well that there’s even some left over each week they can pay back to the government as a contribution to the benefit system overall.”

    Bennett says the funding “will ensure the services are able to keep up with demand”. What she doesn’t say is that that demand is increasing because it’s compulsory when people apply to Work and Income for special needs grants and advances, which people need to apply for because main benefit levels are so ridiculously low. Bennett, this government and Labour have absolutely no idea.

  20. bad12 20

    Is Maurice Williamson really a ventriloquists dummy, i had that thought as Williamson was manhandled out of TV3’s ‘the Nation’ studio on the weekend, perhaps Maurice had just filled his incontinence pants and couldn’t bring Himself to perambulate after such a dramatic event,

    Maurice having just had the silver spoon rudely ripped from His over privileged mouth should face further questioning over His story,

    Claiming that it wasn’t Donghua Liu who asked Him for help after putting the bash on both wife and mother-in-law Williamson claimed that it was a member of the police force who gave Him the information that Liu was in trouble for the incident,

    i don’t believe Williamson’s explanation for a moment, But, if he was being truthful the plod who shared this information with Him should face discipline for giving out such information…

    • karol 20.1

      Ah, bad, on reading the transcript, I don’t think that’s how it went down. The final bit of the interview, Williamson is explaining why he mentioned Liu’s business interests in NZ when talking on the phone to the police.

      So could you clarify for me why you told the police that he was – why you thought it was necessary to tell the police that he had all that money?

      I’ve had a think about the phone call and I think the way it came about, and of course it’s hard to remember back to January the exact wording, but what I think happened is the police officer speaking to me said the assault actually took place in the Boulevard Hotel, which this Mr Liu owns. And I said ‘yes that’s right he owns it’. And I said ‘he actually owns a big chunk of land around it as well’. He said ‘that’s right, but he owns the hotel where it occurred’. It wasn’t like ‘cause he’s so rich, don’t do anything’. But I wasn’t even asking whether they could do anything or not. I was asking ‘are you going to proceed?’

  21. captain hook 21

    to use a quaint old phrase I think Judith collins has gone “furgerko”.

  22. joe90 22

    Finally, after reading 14 ways a link to the entire Umberto Eco Ur-Fa**ism essay.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf&chrome=true

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