Open mike 08/08/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, August 8th, 2013 - 124 comments
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124 comments on “Open mike 08/08/2013 ”

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  1. Pasupial 1
    8 August 2013 at 7:21 am

    “Ms Curran said the decision to source couplers overseas showed Government procurement rules released by Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce in April, and which take effect on October 1, was a ”complete sham, delivering no real benefits”.

    “Dunedin North MP David Clark said the Government’s procurement policy was just ”window dressing” and should take into account the ”whole-of-economy costs”, which included the extra tax paid by having people employed in New Zealand. ”

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/267903/rail-contract-shows-policy-be-sham

    Don’t often find myself in complete agreement with both Dunedin Labour MPs on an issue, so thought I’d acknowledge that here. This is how NACT deal with our unemployment and manufacturing crises:

    “Bradken [the multinational that leases Hillside] had missed on a contract to supply couplers for KiwiRail’s older wagon fleet, resulting in 64 staff moving to a four-day week”

  2. amirite 2
    8 August 2013 at 7:22 am

    Even the mislead youth from his own party opposes the GCSB bill, and what does Banksie do?
    He says, “They are misinformed, they don’t know what I know because if they knew, they would know.”:-D
    Time to give the old man a kick up the backside, Act.
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/act-campus-opposes-spy-bills-ck-143916

    • North 2.1
      8 August 2013 at 7:36 am

      They (ACT on Campus) kicked Botox Banks’ arse over marriage equality…….why when it comes to the spy bills do they take this confused crap (“because if they knew they would know….”), from this screechy caricature of a man ?

      • Tigger 2.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 8:02 am

        Never good to kick people who will be your sole source of on the ground volunteers at the next election.

  3. muzza 3
    8 August 2013 at 8:55 am

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/07/al-qaeda-conference-call-intercepted-by-u-s-officials-sparked-alerts.html

    It wasn’t just any terrorist message that triggered U.S. terror alerts and embassy closures—but a conference call of more than 20 far-flung al Qaeda operatives

    The intercept provided the U.S. intelligence community with a rare glimpse into how al Qaeda’s leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, manages a global organization that includes affiliates in Africa, the Middle East, and southwest and southeast Asia.

    A dead guy manages the organization ?

  4. muzza 4
    8 August 2013 at 9:00 am

    http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/whistleblower-al-qaeda-chief-u-s-asset/

    A whistleblower has revealed extraordinary information on the U.S. government’s support for international terrorist networks and organised crime. The government has denied the allegations yet gone to extraordinary lengths to silence her. Her critics have derided her as a fabulist and fabricator. But now comes word that some of her most serious allegations were confirmed by a major European newspaper only to be squashed at the request of the U.S. government.

    Alrighty then!

    • yeshe 4.1
      8 August 2013 at 11:43 am

      thx Muzza .. what mind-exploding details ! I am amazed Sibel Edmonds has managed to stay alive as US have been trying to silence her for years. Brave and smart woman .. what a story. Long may she remain safe.

      • muzza 4.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 3:51 pm

        No worries,

        My default setting is to be cautious about so called whistle blowers, especially those who manage to stay alive, when there are so many that have been disappeared!

        Gotta keep some faith though, because not everyone wants to die sitting back with the information they have, without taking it public.

        The question is though, can enough people such as this, light a big enough fire under the sheep, before the technological grid becomes unbreakable, permanently!

  5. phillip ure 5
    8 August 2013 at 9:08 am

    http://whoar.co.nz/2013/4-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-crack-americas-most-vilified-drug-comment-ed-my-experiences-in-the-world-of-crack-cocaine/

    (excerpt..)

    “….i found using crack-cocaine to be the most obsessive/compelling of all the drugs i have used/explored..”

    phillip ure..

    • joe90 5.1
      8 August 2013 at 12:14 pm

      Related.

      “We went looking for the effects of cocaine,” Hurt said. But after a time “we began to ask, ‘Was there something else going on?’ ”

      While the cocaine-exposed children and a group of nonexposed controls performed about the same on tests, both groups lagged on developmental and intellectual measures compared to the norm. Hurt and her team began to think the “something else” was poverty

      http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-22/news/40709969_1_hallam-hurt-so-called-crack-babies-funded-study

      • phillip ure 5.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 1:50 pm

        when i said crack was the ‘worst’..i didn’t mean in physical health outcomes..

        ..for example..heroin/barbiturates and alcohol all take a higher physical toll on the user than does cocaine..

        ..(had i drunk as much booze as i used narcotics..i would be rheumy-eyed/drooling in a corner..

        .seriously..!..booze is the brain-killer..)

        ..but it is that compulsion to use that was the strongest of any i experienced..

        ..that led to the labelling as ‘worst’..

        ..’cos with smack/barbs/booze you have eventually had enough..and you pass out..

        ..but with crack..you can go at it for days/nights on end..there is no stop button..

        ..(you go up (and down) like a high-speed lift in a skyscraper..

        ..and you just all the time want to get back ‘up’ again..

        ..and that was what frightened me off so effectively..

        ..you could be sitting there ‘waiting for the pipe’..with yr best friend..and looking at them in pure hatred..

        ..because they ‘are taking too long’ to pass the pipe back to you…

        ..(it is one head-fucking drug..)

        ..when i said it is a monkey on the back..it is actually more of a gorilla..

        ..with the crackhead becoming a total pawn of the drug..

        ..but as i say..as for fucking the mind/body from long-term use..

        ..excess booze is hard to beat..

        ..phillip ure..

  6. Dv 6
    8 August 2013 at 9:43 am

    Govt pays NZ$30 mln to smelter owners in a deal that will clear the way for the float of Meridian Energy

    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/65787/govt-pays-nz30-mln-smelter-owners-deal-will-clear-way-float-meridian-energy

    More welfare!!!

  7. The Prisoner 7
    8 August 2013 at 9:48 am

    The PRISONER:

    Everything is suspicious if you look at it properly, everyone has secrets, no one is without guilt. It’s just we have to work out what it is that they are guilty off.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycdZpjq4ykw

    And there ‘lies’ the power of surveillance…..The Panopticon, social engineering at it’s finest.

    Dare you speak out….. no. 2 has got ya……………………

    [lprent: Not related to the post – moved to OpenMike. ]

  8. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 8
    8 August 2013 at 9:51 am

    Cunliffe is willing to be in government with Shearer. Don’t see you criticising that.

    [lprent: Perhaps you could point out the “criticism” in the post? I can’t see any. It just asks a question.

    A poor attempt at diversion. Moved to OpenMike. Address the post rather than your own strawman construction. ]

    • Bearded Git 8.1
      8 August 2013 at 10:04 am

      D’oh! Has Cunliffe said Peters is “completely and utterly wrong per usual.” Errr….no.

  9. King Kong 9
    8 August 2013 at 9:52 am

    “Key’s comments raise an important question: ‘would Key have in his government a man who is normally “completely and utterly wrong”?’”

    It doesn’t stop the majority of people here supporting the Greens.

    [lprent: Diversion. Doesn’t address the post – moved to OpenMike. ]

    • weka 9.1
      8 August 2013 at 9:59 am

      You seem to be suggesting that the majority of people here think the GP is completely and utterly wrong but would still work with them.

  10. tricledrown 10
    8 August 2013 at 10:10 am

    For one of the worlds biggest companies .
    Using funds for the sale assets to prop up failing policy how much more is the govt going to bribe kiwis to part with what they already own.

  11. weka 11
    8 August 2013 at 10:54 am

    Chris Trotter on the upcoming Labour Party conference, and issues likely to arise. He talks about the conflict between caucus and the rank and file, and possible outcomes. Also the party policy platform proposed by the rank and file that will be voted on as binding at the conference, and the problems this presents given the caucus doesn’t support this direction.

    Labour believes that social justice means that all people should have equal access to social, economic, cultural, political, and legal spheres regardless of wealth, gender, ethnicity, or social position. Labour says that no matter the circumstances of our birth, we are each accorded equal opportunity to achieve our full potential in life. We believe in more than just equal opportunities—we believe in equality of outcomes.

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/08/07/bitterness-anger-and-deep-deep-division-labour-prepares-for-its-97th-annual-conference/

  12. Pete 12
    8 August 2013 at 11:35 am

    Labour promises more funding for Plunket. Smart move. As organisations go in NZ, it’s doubtful you could point to one more trusted. Opposing this wouldn’t be tenable. But we might see National gazumping the pledge in next year’s budget.

    • vto 12.1
      8 August 2013 at 12:01 pm

      Yep….

      National gives $30 million to one of the world’s largest mining companies Rio Tinto

      Labour gives $6 million to Plunket

      Get the headline Labour and lay it right next to Rio Tinto

  13. blue leopard 13
    8 August 2013 at 11:59 am

    I wonder whether the Speaker would rule out Mr Key being referred to as ‘the Prime Muppet of Nz’?

  14. Tigger 14
    8 August 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Food bank manager won’t give parcels to people she thinks are on drugs. Not knows, thinks. Paula Bennett apparently agrees. http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/news/feisty-rose-weeds-out-drug-users/1976269/

    Hey, if sight testing is all that’s required I think John Key is on drugs and should stand down. His skin is grey, he looks tired and there’s even memory lapses to back up my visual assessment.

    • weka 14.1
      8 August 2013 at 12:56 pm

      I’m assuming she means illegal drugs and self-prescribed off-label use of pharmaceuticals, not alcohol or anti-depressants etc.

      Mrs Walker challenged Mr Clendon to do what she did and said it was her right to determine recipients of food parcels.

      “We struggled to get our money and we have a right to say who gets it and who doesn’t. Who the hell does he think he is? Will he come up here and help us get enough money to feed everyone?”

      That is really fucking evil. So poor drug users are now fourth class citizens, even worse than beneficiaries. Why not just brand them and be done with it?

    • richard 14.2
      8 August 2013 at 1:04 pm

      The manager’s attitude seems to be completely at odds with the rest of the operation – which is all about supporting people in need –
      http://www.healthpages.co.nz/community-support-services/sexual-abuse-a-rape-support/kaitaia-women-children-fresh-start-support

    • Murray Olsen 14.3
      8 August 2013 at 8:08 pm

      One look at her photo illustrates the old maxim “There’s nowt as cold as charity.” I sort of almost feel sorry for her, because she’s probably had very little joy in her life. She’s the embodiment of the Presbyterians that Billy Connolly jokes about, who can turn their mouths into assholes at will.

    • millsy 14.4
      9 August 2013 at 6:46 am

      She looks like a fucking nasty old bag. And we leave the provision of social services to people like her.

  15. Rosetinted 15
    8 August 2013 at 12:32 pm

    On the radio news – NZ is the only country in the OECD that does not produce an annual report on the condition of its environment? Did I hear that right – surely I misheard.

    • vto 15.1
      8 August 2013 at 12:51 pm

      We used to do this very sensible thing but it was canned only a few months ago by this government. Why would they do that I wonder?

    • BLiP 15.2
      8 August 2013 at 3:26 pm

      ‘

      Yes, that’s true. The official reporting on the state of our environment has never been great and Labour have been as bad as National Ltd™ in this regard. The Ministry of the Environment was created under David Lange in 1986. Eventually, the Ministry was charged with providing a regular “state of the environment” report, the first published in December 2007. In the lead up to the 2012 report, the Ministry issued a discussion paper backgrounding the need for legislation to be introduced specifically to require the production of such reports to bring New Zealand into line with other OECD countries. In the forward to that report, the then Minister for the Environment, Nick Smith, said . . .

      New Zealanders are quite rightly proud of our environment. In most areas our environment and the systems to protect it compare very well internationally. Our high quality agricultural exports and our lucrative tourist industry rely on these environmental credentials. The problem is that we are in a poor position to provide hard evidence that our clean, green brand is justified. New Zealand is one of only a few OECD countries without a legislative basis for national state of the environment reporting. In Australia,Canada and many other countries, regular national state of the environment reporting is required by law . . . . . .

      This proposal is a refinement of National’s 2008 election policy for a new Environmental Reporting Act requiring publicly-accessible and meaningful, national-scale information on our water, air and land. On officials’ advice, we believe we need parallel changes to the Resource Management Act 1991 to enable the collection of nationally consistent environmental statistics from local authorities . . .

      There was exactly zero progress in this proposal to enshrine environmental reporting into New Zealand law. Then, sometime in late 2012, silently and without even telling its own Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, National Ltd™ cancelled the 2012 report. This fact was dragged out of Amy Adams following a question from the Greens.

      Basically, National Ltd™ was watching the compilation of the 2012 report and, without shame, saw exactly how dangerous it would be if New Zealanders were to realise the egregious impact its policies were already having on the environment. What’s worse, the incoming reports noted that the exponential increase, now underway and accelerating, is already beyond any possibility of mitigation for generations to come.

      Then Fonterra fucked up, then the China Mail told the world New Zealand’s 100% Pure slogan is a “festering sore” and, guess what, hey presto – suddenly, just today, National Ltd™ realises that the environment is essential to business and it had better do something about it. Well, either that or this latest announcement is just more PR bullshit.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.2.1
        8 August 2013 at 3:47 pm

        Well, either that or this latest announcement is just more PR bullshit.

        It’s National and thus it’s PR BS. They won’t do anything to protect the environment because that reduces profits.

        The most dangerous thing to life in this country is the National Party.

      • ropata 15.2.2
        8 August 2013 at 3:50 pm

        +1 googolplex, should be a front page article

    • Draco T Bastard 15.3
      8 August 2013 at 3:43 pm

      We did have a program that would have reported every five years but National scrapped it.

      • BLiP 15.3.1
        8 August 2013 at 4:01 pm

        ‘

        Yep, one report was presented in 2007 and the December 2012 report was cancelled months before it was due to be released. If Nick Smith had kept to his word in that 2011 discussion document, National Ltd™ would not have been able to secretly cancel the report and, indeed, the five yearly regime.

        Hmmmm . . . Having had a wee re-read of some of this material, I’m wondering now when National Ltd™ cancelled the 2012 report. Given its rip-shit-and-bust agenda, its not surprising the Ministry for the Environment was National Ltd™’s first target. It was effectively sidelined with John Key’s imitation of his US betters with the formation of the EPA – stacked full of National Ltd™ cronies, of course. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if the report was cancelled early on but we only became aware of it when the Greens chased it up????

  16. karol 16
    8 August 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Have I just not noticed it before, or has Stuff added 2 new sections to the bottom of its home page?

    They are: NZ Farmer and

    Science.

    Today, the Science section has an interesting article on global warming.

    The global average sea level was at record highs last year as the Earth continues to warm, scientists say.

    The 2012 State of the Climate report, published today, said last year was the eighth or ninth warmest on record, as ranked by four independent datasets.

    Globally, sea level rose to 3.6cm above the average for 1993-2010, rebounding after sharp decreases in the first half of 2011 linked to the La Nina weather pattern. The level was at its highest level since satellite records started in 1993.

    Across the planet as a whole, the sea level has been increasing at an average rate between 2.8mm and 3.6mm a year over the past two decades, the report said.

  17. Sable 17
    8 August 2013 at 1:23 pm

    A DIPLOMATIC SULK

    Looks like Obama has thrown his toys out of his cot over Putin’s decisions to grant Edward Snowden asylum, at least for the time being. A meeting between Putin and Obama has been cancelled. All this on account of someone the Pres wrote off as a 30 year old hacker of no consequence. I’d say actions speak louder than words. If only Snowden had elected to come to New Zealand, he’d be tucked up safe and sound in a US dungeon right now:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/obama-putin-talks-canceled-snowden

    • Draco T Bastard 17.1
      8 August 2013 at 3:49 pm

      If only Snowden had elected to come to New Zealand, he’d be tucked up safe and sound in a US dungeon right now:

      Considering who Snowden worked for and the access he had to information I’m pretty sure he knew that which is why he went the other way.

  18. Poission 18
    8 August 2013 at 1:29 pm

    rebounding after sharp decreases in the first half of 2011 linked to the La Nina weather pattern.

    Thats an incorrect statement ( or poorly posed ) MSL rises during the La Nina phase and decreases during El nino similarly during the negative phase (positive) of the inter decadal pacific oscillation

  19. Penny Bright 19
    8 August 2013 at 3:00 pm

    (FYI – the GCSB Bill is being debated (Committee Stage) again today).

    8 August 2013

    ‘Open Letter’ from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright to National MP for Auckland Central Nikki Kaye – a further 385 signatures opposing the GCSB Bill:

    Nikki Kaye
    National MP for Auckland Central

    Dear Nikki,

    I attempted to fax copies of these petition forms this morning. but with limited success.

    Here are scanned copies of 385 further signatures of those who signed the following petition:

    To National Party Member of Parliament for Auckland Central, Nikki Kaye :

    “The will of the people is the basis of the authority of Government.”

    We, the undersigned, call upon YOU, as an MP, to defend the lawful human
    rights of New Zealanders to privacy, freedom of association and freedom of
    expression – that is – to oppose arbitrary search and surveillance by the
    State over citizens.

    If YOU, as an MP, vote for this GCSB Bill, which will allow widespread spying
    on New Zealanders, we, the undersigned hereby PLEDGE to campaign against
    your re-election in 2014, and to encourage our families, neighbours and workmates
    to do the same.

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that there were only two of us, ( myself and Jacquelyne Taylor) collecting signatures yesterday, outside Auckland University, between 1 – 3.30pm, so 385 signatures is arguably a significant number in a comparatively short time, which is indicative of the public concern over this matter.

    As you are no doubt aware, (and this is meant in a respectful way), the total number of signatures of people who have pledged to campaign against you (now 885) if you continue to support this GCSB Bill, is more than your winning margin of votes cast in the 2011 election?

    http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2011/electoratestatus.html

    Electorate Result Winning Candidate 2nd Place Margin

    Auckland Central 100.0% KAYE, Nikki (NAT) ARDERN, Jacinda (LAB) 717

    Nikki, please do not underestimate the growing concern, and numbers of citizens who do NOT agree with the State giving the power to the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders?

    There were times yesterday, when people were literally queuing up to sign this petition.

    Nikki, please do the decent thing, and do NOT support this GCSB Bill.

    I realise that you have been very busy with the Fonterra matter, but my full response to your reply to the first 500+ signatures on this above-mentioned petition is available here:

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

    Hopefully, you will have found time to read it, before the GCSB Bill is further debated today, because I have put some time into addressing the points you have raised, in support of this legislation.

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  20. Chooky 20
    8 August 2013 at 3:29 pm

    +1 Penny…you are a gem!

    • McFlock 21.1
      8 August 2013 at 4:54 pm

      nothing since 2010 to feed your chemtrail delusion, then? That means they’re just getting better at hiding their activities… /sarc

      • muzza 21.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 5:19 pm

        Actually, I assumed you would be the one to respond, so thanks, because I have a question.

        In your opinion, which direction is the trail heading?

        • McFlock 21.1.1.1
          8 August 2013 at 5:32 pm

          If I had to hazard a guess, I’d call from northish to southish.

          There’s a heavy South America flight that follows that rough direction over Dunedin, and I assume the Deep Freeze aircraft do, as well.

          • muzza 21.1.1.1.1
            8 August 2013 at 5:39 pm

            Northish-Southish – How would that header relate to the South American flight, which fyi, is nowhere near NZ at 930am anyway, even if it was, the trail would be east-west.

            That’s what I was after anyway, a local opinion, which is why posted it, as I figured you would respond.

            Cheers

            • McFlock 21.1.1.1.1.1
              8 August 2013 at 6:10 pm

              You are aware that the world is roughly spherical, right? What affect might that have on flight paths, do you think?

              • muzza …
                8 August 2013 at 6:18 pm

                Very little, when talking about the flight paths from from South America in context of passing over Dunedin, as they head towards their destination in Australia.

                Otherwise what you say is relevant, but still your contention it needs to be overlaid against the geography of a relatively static reference point, in this case Dunedin, with the variable being the flights path. Makes it very difficult to leave a northish-southish trail, McFlock.

                • McFlock …
                  8 August 2013 at 6:34 pm

                  Wrong.

                  And that’s not including a direct flight to Antarctica, of course.

                  . Military support missions flown from Christchurch International Airport are conducted during the Antarctic summer (late September to early March) each year by USAF C-17 Globemaster III aircraft of the United States Air Force Air Mobility Command (AMC).

                  When was your chemtrail photographed? December?
                  Occam’s Razor can be a bitch.

                  • muzza …
                    8 August 2013 at 6:47 pm

                    Do you know what a falcon is, McFlock, cos that ones hit you, right in the face!

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      8 August 2013 at 7:10 pm

                      Why is it a falcon, muz?

                    • McFlock …
                      8 August 2013 at 7:27 pm

                      Ah, so because it might have been a military flight, it must have been spraying chemtrails? Moron.

                    • joe90 …
                      8 August 2013 at 7:35 pm

                      I doubt muzza’s a league man TRP.

                    • Te Reo Putake …
                      8 August 2013 at 8:18 pm

                      Good call Joe!

                      For mine, its a c17 heading to the ice. And the height may be an optical illusion, ;a big vapour trail from a big plane. Google globemaster, image. Lots of similar shots.

                    • muzza …
                      9 August 2013 at 8:24 am

                      @ Voice – Perhaps I didn’t make it obvious enough to McFlock – on his comment referenced below.

                      If I had to hazard a guess, I’d call from northish to southish.

                      There’s a heavy South America flight that follows that rough direction over Dunedin, and I assume the Deep Freeze aircraft do, as well.

                      There is no commercial flights from South America which would leave a trail on that header/direction, which was the message I was attempting to convey, McFlock went off into examples and links about military flights to Antarctica – I thought it was obvious my comments were referring to commercial flights, as they head towards their destination in Australia!

                      Anyway, I gave him a falcon for missing what I believed to be fairly clear in the comments that it was commercial, not military I was talking to, but I see below, he has again jumped on the military angle, McFlock, re-read the comments above fella!

                      @ J90 – Wrong, thus Voice, you have backed the wrong horse there, although you might well be correct about the flight, who knows. The only certainty is that it was not left by a commercial flight from South America, to anywhere!

                    • McFlock …
                      9 August 2013 at 2:31 pm

                      Well you’ve just been shown that there is an airline flight route that can roughly approximate that heading, especially if winds are taken into account, even if you think that the earth is flat.

                      But even if there weren’t, what’s your fucking point in recycling a two and a half year old photo of the sky?

              • joe90 …
                8 August 2013 at 7:19 pm

                Soot.

                Direct effect (contrail-cirrus). Linear and spreading contrails, initially formed from exhaust water vapor and particles, constitute and additional cloud type and enhance cirrus cloud coverage. Initial contrail occurrence relies on well understood thermodynamic principles, initial contrail properties depend on soot and sulfur emissions and near-field exhaust (jet/vortex) dynamics. The spreading process of persistent contrails is controlled by wind shear and relative humidity. Contrail-cirrus are advected with the wind field over large distances, even into regions without significant air traffic. The direct effect is largest in regions without background cirrus.

                http://www.pa.op.dlr.de/pazi/

              • Murray Olsen …
                8 August 2013 at 8:16 pm

                I could never work out why the flights home from South America went down to the bottom of the map and then did a right turn to head back up into the Pacific and approach Dunedin from the East. Are you saying Mercator’s projection shouldn’t be taken literally?

  22. Anne 22
    8 August 2013 at 4:45 pm

    It’s a contrail dissipating in the upper atmosphere.

    Reminds me of the crap about flying saucers off the Kaikoura Coast in the 1970s. The Met Service made it clear what it was – lights from a group of Japanese fishing vessels at the surface being reflected by an anticyclonic inversion layer at around 1500/2000ft – but the media of the day including an overseas contingent ignored them. The truth was too boring and non sensational.

    • muzza 22.1
      8 August 2013 at 5:29 pm

      Hi Anne, yes the met office, quite!

      In any case, no it’s not a contrail, and its not in the upper atmosphere!

      Here you go, some reading.

      http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/8/1689/2008/acp-8-1689-2008.pdf

      • Anne 22.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 5:45 pm

        Strewth… I’m not arguing against that lot muzza but I still think it’s a contrail. Watched them forming at around 25,000 ft plus. You can’t actually see the plane but you can tell its whereabouts by the slow and regular lengthening of the contrail. That’s exactly what they look like 10 to 20 minutes after their formation.

        Btw. I have to concede one point. From the photo it doesn’t look that high I must admit – 15000 ft maybe?

        • muzza 22.1.1.1
          8 August 2013 at 6:04 pm

          Hi Anne, wasn’t looking for an argument, or for you to provide one.

          One of the links salient points is that very precise sets of met conditions are required, to create a trail of any sort, let alone the long, and horizon to horizon type trails, followed by a widening effect.

          These types of trails required impossibly precise conditions in the troposphere, referred to as super-saturation over ice. Despite these rarified requirements, persistent trails are being recored, around the globe at ever accelerating velocity!

          Have a good evening.

          Edit – Just saw your BTW comment – The trail in the pics is very low, which is where the discussion about the precise met conditions requirements, comes into play. Such conditions to create so called persistent trails (super-saturation over ice), could not exist at that height, to support the trail as shown in those pics.

          • Anne 22.1.1.1.1
            8 August 2013 at 6:58 pm

            Hi Anne, wasn’t looking for an argument, or for you to provide one.

            No, I wasn’t either. Went back to check the photo and noted it appeared unusually low. Hence the later edit. Interesting phenomenon. I wonder if a NIWA or Met Service scientist has commented.

            Btw: Twaddle referred to Pop1. He’s talking through a hole in his head.

      • Populuxe1 22.1.2
        8 August 2013 at 7:07 pm

        And here is some reading for you

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

    • Murray Olsen 22.2
      8 August 2013 at 8:30 pm

      I slept one night on the beach at Kaikoura during that. My girlfriend from the time remembers seeing the lights. I don’t. She went on to become an alchemist. I am a physicist. Funny old world.

      • Rosetinted 22.2.1
        8 August 2013 at 8:39 pm

        Murray O and Morrissey
        Thanks for giving me the info on the book I had been looking for. You correctly named Stick out, Keep Left by Margaret Thorn as being the one I wanted. I actually went on to Abe NZ
        and got it. It’s very good. Very humbling how passionate and committed she and her husband were – we owe these older people who shaped Labour so much. It would be a shame to drift back to the old system, to lose most of it, but it’s not impossible that could happen. I thought I’d put a few paragraphs in from time to time, just to keep the vision before us.

  23. Pascal's bookie 23
    8 August 2013 at 5:48 pm

    If the Government doesn’t back down on this bloody stupid only 3 snapper for non-commercial fishers they’ll be well fucked even granted labour being useless.

    • Murray Olsen 23.1
      8 August 2013 at 8:42 pm

      I’d support a cut to 8 snapper, with a closed season during spawning, and a lot more enforcement of the commercial rules. I saw a lot of rubbish when I used to go out fishing a lot, including upgrading and trawling straight through spawning grounds. One time we watched a large trawler drag its nets from just off Whangaparoa down to and through the Rakino Channel, at the height of the spawning season. We got its number and reported it to an inspector at the Orakei ramp when we got back. He was less than interested and said that, even though what they were doing was illegal, he couldn’t do anything unless we had video evidence.

      I feel a bit sick after this when I see young Maori or Pasifika shown on tv for grabbing a few paua. Just like with any crime, it seems that making it big enough gets you immunity. Doing it while brown and on a small scale gets you prison.

    • Draco T Bastard 23.2
      8 August 2013 at 9:14 pm

      Quite a few of my family have already been limiting the catch they take. It’s not the limiting the catch that pisses them off, it’s the fact that the commercial operations haven’t been limited as well. They’re recognising it as a move to maintain/protect commercial fishing rather than to protect the fish.

      • Murray Olsen 23.2.1
        8 August 2013 at 9:34 pm

        I’m agreeing with you 🙂
        Sometimes I agree with other people, just to see what it feels like.

        • Pascal's bookie 23.2.1.1
          9 August 2013 at 6:24 am

          There is simply no way the personal take (‘recreational’ is a bullshit phrase) should be cut before the commercial. It’s as disgusting as mining in schedule 4.

          Too many governments see the resource as only being worth something if it is being sold. That’s fucking stupid. All fishers use the resource and there is no rational reason to say that those who use it for consumption should have to pay those who use it to sell, or have their rights to it diminished in favour of those who are only seeking to turn a profit.

  24. richard 24
    8 August 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Reserve Bank and Treasury staff seen giving birth to kittens on The Terrace:
    Bank of England Governor Mark Carney bets the bank: Revolutionary plan to target joblessness

    (It should be noted that his target of reducing unemployment to 7% is still above the 6% rate that the incomparibly evil Bill Phillips said was the ideal level to prevent inflation)

  25. Rosetinted 25
    8 August 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Radionz piece. Scientists up in arms. Sir Paul Callaghan left a business when he died that has a leading place in the world in lenses for telescopes? They have cancelled a contract saying that it was risky and had too tight schedules.

    Can’t NZ manage to do anything right twice? Anyhow signing contracts with unreasonably short completion times is fairly frequent from what I hear. World pressure is on to be competitive. But even if you’re near the top of the industry you can’t sign up and then reneg or you get a bad name.

    I remember a book about one of the first Japanese business men to start a business in industry after World War 2. Went to USA and overcome language barrier, started a whole new trend making motor scooters and went on to be a world industry. If we want to develop something else besides traditional animal husbandry and agriculture we can’t afford to be so laissez faire, which in NZ parlance is she’ll be right.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint
    Scientists upset lenses contract pulled ( 2′ 24″ )

    18:40 The Association of Scientists says it beggars belief that a Crown agency has
    pulled the plug on a multimillion dollar international contract for telescope lenses.

    • Murray Olsen 25.1
      8 August 2013 at 8:27 pm

      That makes me sick to my stomach, Rt. We have some of the world’s best optical scientists, most of whom are working overseas because of the tall poppy syndrome, among other reasons. These guys have identified a market and are playing to their strengths, only to have some politically appointed seat warmers sabotage it for them. There is only so much people will accept in their careers before they take the opportunities available overseas. And then the country is left with the million dollar executives of Fonterra ballsing up one of the few things the government will back, or Shane Jones and his slave fisheries getting us locked out of other markets. Why are those who rule over us so bloody hopeless?

      • Rosetinted 25.1.1
        8 August 2013 at 8:50 pm

        Murray O
        (See my recent comment to you.
        Why do these jerks… I think the Peter Principle. And being good talkers. We seem to be mesmerised by good talkers. I think many of us are a little inarticulate and I have noticed that we can be galvanised by someone with vitality, confidence and a loud voice.. Into the valley ..ride the 4 million!

        And seat warmers. There is some sort of reserved place in employment heaven that chaps and busy business ladies get to and it takes a lot of bad karma for them to get taken down a peg or two.

        I remember getting this feeling when Jim Salinger got his hand slapped and I didn’t think for anything important except for giving an opinion free on ‘the possible weather’ which was no longer okay because it was all to be charged for. Run by a seat warmer.

        But of course there is this generic management idea. As if each type of business hasn’t its own set of strengths and problems and it helps to have some depth of experience in the field you are managing. My favourite is putting a manager into the social welfare who used to manage a seaport. He probably wished he could put them all on a Slow Boat to China.

    • Draco T Bastard 25.2
      8 August 2013 at 9:21 pm

      Scientists gobsmacked by funding withdrawal

      Callaghan Innovation – a Crown entity that manages a $140-million-a-year portfolio of government funding and grants – has stopped its subsidiary, Kiwistar, from signing a $2.4 million contract with the Australian Astronomical Observatory to develop the lenses.

      Stopped from signing, not cancelling/breaking the contract.

      Still, it really was a stupid decision.

  26. Pascal's bookie 26
    8 August 2013 at 7:12 pm

    ruhroh

    Meridian sale looks more and more reckless:

    http://t.co/ReNkynGkOg

  27. Rosetinted 27
    8 August 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Oxymoron anyone think?
    Minister and mayor say approvals for mine taking too long ( 3′ 17″ )
    18:12 The Conservation Minister and the Buller District mayor say it’s taking too long
    for a West Coast open cast coal mine to get the all clear from authorities.

    Conditional go-ahead for Denniston Plateau mine ( 4′ 47″ )
    17:46 Bathurst Resources expects to be coal mining on the Denniston Plateau by the
    end of the year after winning conditional go-ahead from the Environment Court.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint

  28. Draco T Bastard 28
    8 August 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Sorry, It’s Not A ‘Law Of Capitalism’ That You Pay Your Employees As Little As Possible

    These senior managers and owners, after all, are earning record profits while choosing to pay their employees so little in many cases that the employees have to live in poverty.
    And the senior managers and owners add insult to injury by blaming the employees for this: “If they want to get paid more, they should start their own company. Or get a better job.”
    It is no mystery why America’s senior managers and owners describe the decision to pay employees as little as possible as a “law of capitalism” — because doing this masks the fact that they are making a choice.
    But paying employees so little that they must live in poverty is not a law of capitalism.
    It’s a choice.

    The greed of the few is destroying even the consumerist economy that the politicians and the economists have lauded for the last few decades.

    • Draco T Bastard 29.1
      9 August 2013 at 2:24 am

      Took me right to the bottom of that article to find something that he did that might actually be considered beneficent. Most of it just went on about his sporting achievements which is, IMO, rather mundane.

      • vto 29.1.1
        9 August 2013 at 8:57 am

        Yes not a hero of the valiant battlefield invent penicillin kind, a hero of the live the dream push your own boundaries someone to look up to kind.

        • karol 29.1.1.1
          9 August 2013 at 9:08 am

          Shows everything that’s wrong with Kiwi mainstream values – sports – man vs wild.

          not doing anything actually of social value, or to benefit the common good.

          he live the dream push your own boundaries someone to look up to kind.

          Sounds very libertarianz

          • vto 29.1.1.1.1
            9 August 2013 at 9:21 am

            Sheesh Karol, that’s off the planet ……………… and shows everything that’s wrong with leftwing mainstream values – land rights for gay whales. No wonder commentary from the right lampoons your way of viewing the world and your way of lumping everybody’s choice of life together. Get a life.

            • karol 29.1.1.1.1.1
              9 August 2013 at 12:54 pm

              Actually, you show everything that’s wrong with mainstream values – always looking to sporting heroes, which is what got him the MSM attention, and most of the coverage in the article as DTB says.

              Anyone who is doing these things, as mentioned ny joe90:

              clean water projects, anti-malaria work, vaccination projects, tsunami aid, earthquake aid in the west of the Indonesian archipelago

              Yep. Doing things of value.
              But there’s a lot of people doing such things who never get MSM attention – so not so much a great Kiwi hero, as a Kiwi showing some good citizenship.

          • joe90 29.1.1.1.2
            9 August 2013 at 10:43 am

            Sports man, P3 navigator, family man, artisan, innovator, employer, clean water projects, anti-malaria work, vaccination projects, tsunami aid, earthquake aid in the west of the Indonesian archipelago so yeah, nothing actually of social value, or to benefit the common good.
            /

            • vto 29.1.1.1.2.1
              9 August 2013 at 11:00 am

              Thanks joe90, I was only aware of some of those things. But yep, add those things you have listed together with his surfing and the way he went about life and you get a true New Zealand hero, in the sense I meant (tho didn’t explain perhaps).

              He was someone I looked up to – surf-wise and life-wise

            • joe90 29.1.1.1.2.2
              9 August 2013 at 11:23 am

              Indeed vto, a thoroughly decent man who walked the talk in his own quiet way.

              btw, one of my nephews is spending the season in Indonesia and following a cut throat sponsorship drive he left with ten of these.

              • vto …
                9 August 2013 at 11:38 am

                mmm, the warm waters of indo. I try not to think of such when paddling out into the cooler waters of the south island.

                Those filters look like life-savers in those environs.

                • joe90 …
                  9 August 2013 at 11:46 am

                  Last time he was away it was mosquito nets vto but the self serving surfing yoof of today have damn sight better social consciences than I ever had.

            • Draco T Bastard 29.1.1.1.2.3
              9 August 2013 at 2:15 pm

              The only things he was mentioned for in the article was his surfing and the fact that he made better surfboards. Most people reading that article would have have NFI who he was and so, by reading that article, would have the understanding that he became a “hero” for surfing. Nothing, IMO, good enough to get a mention in a newspaper article.

              • vto …
                9 August 2013 at 4:02 pm

                “Nothing, IMO, good enough to get a mention in a newspaper article”

                Draco, you are not thinking. Most people would imagine that reaching the top position not just nationally but internationally (and which no other New Zealanders ever had before in this realm) in their chosen ‘sport’ is entirely good enough to get a mention in a newspaper article. Don’t you think that would be why newspapers do it? Because that is what the most people want to read? Your opinion may well be that that is not good enough for a newspaper mention – few would agree with you.

                The hero piece was clearly my opinion. Heroism is, again if you think about it, subjective. You will note that the original post did not hype it up – I kept it simple and short, in keeping. There are a lot of people I consider my heroes, for many different reasons and in many realms. Some are business heroes, some are good people heroes, some are save the world heroes, ….

                It seems that you and Karol save hero status for only the very most exceptional of people.

  30. Veutoviper 30
    9 August 2013 at 11:29 am

    This could be interesting at 1pm today

    Dunne Tweet

    “I am doing NBR ASK ME ANYTHING session 1pm today. Leave a question now: nbr.co.nz/ask-peter-dunne”

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