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Open mike 13/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 13th, 2013 - 128 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

128 comments on “Open mike 13/06/2013”

  1. AsleepWhileWalking 1

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890189

    Quotes:

    Green Party co-leader Russel Norman has accused Prime Minister John Key of conspiring to establish a surveillance state in New Zealand by encouraging American data-mining company Palantir to set up shop here.

    -snip-

    Dr Norman voiced concerns this week about Palantir and its software Prism, which he suggested was similar to the huge online data gathering and tracking tool of the same name used by United States spy organisation the National Security Agency.
    He also pointed out Palantir had set up an office in Wellington and was advertising for an analyst to be embedded with the Government.
    Yesterday he said: “We need to know, is John Key effectively trying to replicate Prism in New Zealand by getting this organisation Palantir to set up here and start spying on all of our internet communications and everything digital that we do?”

    -snip-

    And in a tone reminiscent of the scientists of old who crowed that all that there was to be discovered already had been and laughed when the suggestion was made that the world wasn’t flat…here’s Tony Ryall:

    State Owned Enterprises Minister Tony Ryall said Dr Norman suffered from paranoia and called him the Chicken Little of New Zealand politics. “Every time he talks about anything the sky’s falling in … it’s all big business big politics, the right against the innocent little Greens.”

    • Pasupial 1.1

      Palantir: The ancient seeing stones of Middle Earth; originally used to keep the free peoples in contact with one another, but which fell under the power of the Eye of Sauron. Corrupting; Saruman the White, and driving mad with despair; Denethor (steward of Gondor, and lord of Minas Tirith; bulwark against the forces of evil). How appropriate.

      @AwW
      These scientists of old you mention; which ones do you mean? Aristarchus was the first (circa 300 BC!) to accurately describe the approximate size and shape of the solar system. But his work was more; lost, than derided by other scientists. Copernicus certainly came in for his share of flak, but that was mainly from the church; who demanded his heliocentricism be taught as merely a hypothesis (tactics reminiscent of the present attacks on teaching evolution).

      A better example might be Galileo, the first astronomer to make and use telescopes (all Aristarchus had was; his eyes, the phases of the moon, and the length of shadows cast by the sun). In regard to his discovery of the moons of Jupiter, he begged a priest to look through one of his telescopes and see the evidence for himself. The reply? “I don’t need to look, for my faith informs me that they are not there” [paraphrased from the original Italian, obviously].

  2. Tamairanga 2

    Mal Brough compares Gillard to a plucked chook at a QLD fund-raiser ..

    http://news.google.co.nz/news/rtc?ncl=d9EFS0Jkf887MwMIV4k4E0SIFNofM&topic=w

    • Jenny 3.1

      Thanks, PB. I am off to work. Will read them when I get home.

    • Pascal's bookie 3.2

      Here’s the link to the SCMP story, c&ped from the wrong tab:

      http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259422/edward-snowden-let-hong-kong-people-decide-my-fate

      • Jenny 3.2.1

        This is great stuff Pb. Some thought provoking and considered commentary. Also good quotes in here. Appreciated.

        The citizens of Hong Kong come in for some well deserved praise for their courage for standing up for democracy against the communist regional Power. I see that the citizens of that great city are rallying to support Snowden already.

        Meanwhile the communist toady administrator of Hong Kong is calling for Snowden to be promptly sent back to the US. The US and their Communist China rivals and sometimes enemy, rally together against their common foe. Their own people’s thirst for democracy and freedom.

        I take back my first impression that Snowden should come here. Hong Kong sounds like the perfect place for Snowden. Snowden has knowingly and willingly placed his life in the hands of the citizens of Hong Kong knowing of their record of standing up for democracy and freedom. Refusing to be bullied by the Communist Leaders of China or the past Colonial rulers.

        Snowden has given recognition to the people of Hong Kong and their great history.

        I only wish it had been us who had been so honoured.

  3. Morrissey 4

    “But yeah, as you say, no no no….”
    Yet another failure by a “liberal” commentator

    The Huddle, NewstalkZB, Wednesday 12 June 2013
    Tim Dower, Damian Christie, Maria Slade

    Larry “Lackwit” Williams is away, possibly with swine flu. But the format of this horror show remains the same: a dim but nasty host (TIM DOWER), a virulently dogmatic right wing opinionator (MARIA SLADE) and one token “liberal” who, in almost every case, is bullied into dithering silence or nervously tries to “find common ground” with the other two. Today that contemptible wimp is played to perfection by DAMIAN CHRISTIE. For anyone concerned at media irresponsibility, mediocrity and downright cowardliness, this little exchange, right at the end of today’s Huddle, is a perfect case study. Note how Christie initially makes a (weak) statement supporting Edward Snowden, but when the other two grunt their disapproval, he not only falls into line, but preposterously compares Snowden to Nazi war criminals hiding in South America….

    TIM DOWER: Okay, we’re back with The Huddle. Now, uh, [snicker] this BIZARRE suggestion today that we should grant asylum to this guy Edward Snowden! Ha ha ha ha ha! What do you think of THAT? 

    MARIA SLADE: [snicker] No, no, no, no, NO.

    DAMIAN CHRISTIE: Well…[nervous snicker]… I have some time for Edward Snowden actually. I think that what this Prism business shows is that the very LEAST, I should at least know that my emails are not being spied on! [nervous snicker]

    TIM DOWER: [dubiously] Mmmmmmmmm.

    MARIA SLADE: [dubiously] Mmmmmmmmmmm. They must have caught Geoffrey Robinson at a low point! I have a lot of time for him actually and, you know, his stand against the death penalty?

    TIM DOWER: Yup.

    MARIA SLADE: But THIS? [snicker] This is just…aaaaarrrgghhhh!! And you know he’s married to that FABULOUS novelist Kathy Lette! But THIS? No, no, no, no, no.

    DAMIAN CHRISTIE: I suppose New Zealand could be like Brazil and Argentina after World War Two, where characters like this could hide out. But yeah, as you say, no, no, no.

    MARIA SLADE: Not with our relationship with the United States. It could never happen! No. NO.

    TIM DOWER: Damian Christie and Maria Slade, thank you!

    Point to Ponder….
    The following are all used in NewstalkZB’s on air promos…..

    Ranting. Reacting. Reasoning. Reflecting. The Huddle with LarryWilliams, on NewstalkZB!
    NewstalkZB. Fair and Balanced.
    NewstalkZB. Tune Your Mind.

  4. Morrissey 5

    Today’s talking points for Populuxe1

    Here’s the official line on dissent for today, written for the morally unimpeachable Daily Telegraph by one Tim Stanley, who is a British version of Dr Michael Bassett.

    It’s full of flippant putdowns and piss-weak analysis, but it’s as good as the British and U.S. regimes can manage, short of flinging rape allegations at him.

    Those of us with a conscience will simply laugh at statements like this one about Prism: “it’s not a snooping programme but a data management tool.” But you will no doubt fall on such made-to-measure soundbites like a maggot on a chop.

    Don’t say I never do anything for you, my friend.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100221535/is-edward-snowdens-story-unravelling-why-the-guardians-scoop-is-looking-a-bit-dodgy/

    • Populuxe1 5.1

      How sweet, and ironic too, Morrissey, given that you’re the bastion of “flippant putdowns and piss-weak analysis” around here. I shall forbear to meditate on the interesting question as to why Mr Snowden failed to take advantage of US federal whistleblower laws, did not take his concerns to Congress, nor protested to the organisations and institutions for which he worked – the system is undoubtedly flawed. It is, however, curious to say the least, n’est-ce pas, that his exodus to Hong Kong appears to have been in preperation some weeks before the leaking. It is also rather interesting that Mr Snowden chose Hong Kong to flee to because of its regard for free speech. Surely it did not escape one so erudite that Hong Kong remains a part of the People’s Republic of China and has an extradition treaty with the US. In any case, I ceased to have any sympathy for the man when he just recently made the transition (from his plush and expensive hotel room) from whistleblower to treasonist by blabbing too all and sundry about US espionage arrangements in China – a bridge too far. I would postulate that Mr Snowden, if not a conscious saboteur, is at least then like you a delusional narcissist.

      • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1

        Here are some of the ‘flaws’ of the whistle blowing process as told by one who used it:

        I differed as a whistleblower to Snowden only in this respect: in accordance with the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, I took my concerns up within the chain of command, to the very highest levels at the NSA, and then to Congress and the Department of Defense. I understand why Snowden has taken his course of action, because he’s been following this for years: he’s seen what’s happened to other whistleblowers like me.

        By following protocol, you get flagged – just for raising issues. You’re identified as someone they don’t like, someone not to be trusted. I was exposed early on because I was a material witness for two 9/11 congressional investigations. In closed testimony, I told them everything I knew – about Stellar Wind, billions of dollars in fraud, waste and abuse, and the critical intelligence, which the NSA had but did not disclose to other agencies, preventing vital action against known threats. If that intelligence had been shared, it may very well have prevented 9/11.

        But as I found out later, none of the material evidence I disclosed went into the official record. It became a state secret even to give information of this kind to the 9/11 investigation.

        I reached a point in early 2006 when I decided I would contact a reporter. I had the same level of security clearance as Snowden. If you look at the indictment from 2010, you can see that I was accused of causing “exceptionally grave damage to US national security”. Despite allegations that I had tippy-top-secret documents, In fact, I had no classified information in my possession, and I disclosed none to the Baltimore Sun journalist during 2006 and 2007. But I got hammered: in November 2007, I was raided by a dozen armed FBI agents, when I was served with a search warrant. The nightmare had only just begun, including extensive physical and electronic surveillance.

        In April 2008, in a secret meeting with the FBI, the chief prosecutor from the Department of Justice assigned to lead the prosecution said, “How would you like to spend the rest of your life in jail, Mr Drake?” – unless I co-operated with their multi-year, multimillion-dollar criminal leak investigation, launched in 2005 after the explosive New York Times article revealing for the first time the warrantless wiretapping operation. Two years later, they finally charged me with a ten felony count indictment, including five counts under the Espionage Act. I faced upwards of 35 years in prison.

        In July 2011, after the government’s case had collapsed under the weight of truth, I plead to a minor misdemeanor for “exceeding authorized use of a computer” under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act – in exchange for the DOJ dropping all ten felony counts. I received as a sentence one year’s probation and 240 hours of community service: I interviewed almost 50 veterans for the Library of Congress veterans history project. This was a rare, almost unprecedented, case of a government prosecution of a whistleblower ending in total defeat and failure.

        http://m.guardiannews.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/12/snowden-surveillance-subverting-constitution

        And none of the rest is interesting at all in the way you seem to suggest. It can all be explained in the quote above.

        It’s not odd that someone working where he did would have an interest in game theory and signalling and use those insights in his actions. It’s a pretty serious game he’s playing.

        I also don’t see any particular need to spend much time trying to psychoanalyse the guy. His personality is pretty much completely beside the point.

        • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.1

          you are on the money bookie.

        • Populuxe1 5.1.1.2

          While you mind find your confirmation bias comforting, I still find the remainder interestingL Why did he flee to China? WHy is he now spilling his guts that have nothing to do with domestic spying on US citizens?

          • Rogue Trooper 5.1.1.2.1

            find comfort in your own bias (and read the entire reference you link might be helpful).

            • Populuxe1 5.1.1.2.1.1

              My bias is not to believe anything, never trust in an ideology, and when something is current and widely available news, I don’t feel I need to google for you

          • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.2.2

            “It’s not odd that someone working where he did would have an interest in game theory and signalling and use those insights in his actions. It’s a pretty serious game he’s playing.”

            What I meant by that is there are explanations for his behaviour that relate to to strategy rather than ideology.

            Youbleaped to answer your questions with ‘treason’ and psychoanalysis. Good for you I guess. I just see other possible explanations.

            What he appears to be doing is sending signals about what cards he has in order to change the calculations made by the various people in whose hands his future lies. It’s about affecting decisions that are made by changing the information the decision makers hold.

            game theory. Signals. Geeky stuff that geeks get into.

            Or maybe just out of the blue he turned chicom. We don’t have enough information. I’ve not made my mind up about him, and don’t see any particular need to. Like I said, his personality is a bit of a non event in the scheme of things.

          • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.2.3

            “It’s not odd that someone working where he did would have an interest in game theory and signalling and use those insights in his actions. It’s a pretty serious game he’s playing.”

            What I meant by that is there are explanations for his behaviour that relate to to strategy rather than ideology.

            You leaped to answer your questions with ‘treason’ and psychoanalysis. Good for you I guess. I just see other possible explanations.

            What he could well be doing is sending signals about what cards he has in order to change the calculations made by the various people in whose hands his future lies. ( ie, telling both the Chinese and the US that he has more stuff, and may talk without letting them know wjhat he has, and to what extent he will talk). It’s about affecting decisions that are made by changing the information the decision makers hold.

            That would explain why he went to china. An opponent of the US will act differently toward him than an ally of the US will.

            Game theory, Information theory. Signals. Geeky stuff that geeks get into. Especially crypto geeks.

            Or maybe just out of the blue he turned chicom. We don’t have enough information. I’ve not made my mind up about him, and don’t see any particular need to. Like I said, his personality is a bit of a non event in the scheme of things.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2.4

            P1 is hilarious.

            First he tries to pillory Snowden for being a high school and army drop out. Now he’s trying to position Snowden as a Chinese spy.

            Mate, just get over the fact that this guy is so smart he got a senior consulting position with Booz Allen on $200K pa (including benefits), which is something you couldn’t do.

            And that’s before the fact he just threw that and more in, and put his fucking neck on the line. While you whine about his dirty socks.

            • Populuxe1 5.1.1.2.4.1

              And maybe you’re jealous of his pole-dancing girfriend – though it seems his salary was actually considerably less than $200,000 a year. Yep, your right, I couldn’t pull that and neither could he. I’m not actually suggesting anything except something remains very fishy, if only his motivations.

            • Populuxe1 5.1.1.2.4.2

              Also, you do realise Snowden is a Ron Paul fanatic, don’t you?

              • Morrissey

                Also, you do realise Snowden is a Ron Paul fanatic, don’t you?

                Ron Paul’s economic theories are beside the point; his comments about the illegal spying of the government are entirely reasonable and solidly mainstream. Not, of course, if you consider the political class the “mainstream”, but then what does public opinion matter?

                Ron Paul is what Richard Prebble would be if he had a conscience and the courage to speak plainly.

                • Populuxe1

                  You delusional narcissists do like to stick together. There doesn’t appear to be any evidence that he has in fact “leaked” anything that wasn’t already well known to anyone who cared to think about the Patriot Act for ten seconds. Now he’s giving interviews to the Chinese dailies – curiouser and curiouser….

      • Ad 5.1.2

        He took The Bourne Identity too seriously perhaps.

      • Morrissey 5.1.3

        1.) I shall forbear to meditate on the interesting question as to why Mr Snowden failed to take advantage of US federal whistleblower laws

        We can see the way that the US treats its whistleblowers, simply by looking at the judicial lynching being perpetrated in Fort Meade, Maryland.

        2.) ….the system is undoubtedly flawed.

        “Flawed”? What Edward Snowden has confirmed irrefutably is that the U.S. government is spying on its own citizens ILLEGALLY. It is perpetrating CRIMES against its own citizens.

        3.) ….curious to say the least, n’est-ce pas, that his exodus to Hong Kong appears to have been in preperation [sic] some weeks before the leaking…

        Yes, it was a momentous action he undertook. Planning was essential.

        4.) Mr Snowden chose Hong Kong to flee to because of its regard for free speech.

        He chose a place where he would be safe from the depradations of another regime which has scant respect for free speech. Similarly, Ai Wei Wei recently sought asylum in the embassy of a regime which has scant respect for free speech. Not that a dedicated servant of state power like yourself is ever likely to anger any criminals like Snowden has done, but you need to remember the concept of “any port in a storm.”

        5.) …the People’s Republic of China and has an extradition treaty with the US.

        That is for criminal activity, not for political activity. If anyone were to be deported from Hong Kong now, it would be those U.S. operatives in the consul there who have not denounced their country’s criminal activities and are, therefore, still directly or indirectly involved in the commission of those crimes.

        6.) …whistleblower to treasonist by blabbing too all and sundry about US espionage arrangements in China – a bridge too far.

        He blew the whistle on illegal surveillance of American citizens. THAT is what the criminal U.S. regime wants him for.

        7.) …if not a conscious saboteur, is at least then like you a delusional narcissist.

        It is telling that you reserve all your bile and vitriol for the whistle-blower, not the criminals he has exposed. Perhaps you would be well advised to spend some of your time dreaming up some adjectives to describe Barack Obama or THIS liar….
        http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ETjGOxY5q6U/UUGEcuF1lsI/AAAAAAAAOk4/D_LLTUoCDCs/s1600/Clapper.jpg
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/james-clapper-intelligence-chief-criticism

  5. vto 6

    EQC. The government department set up to provide a form of land and building insurance in the event of a major disaster hitting anyone in NZ, but especially hitting a large population centre in one of our cities.

    Its very reason for being of course came into play in Christchurch during 2010 and 2011.

    EQC’s failings to comply with its own legislated obligations is legendary. It has completely and utterly failed. It has failed to such an extent that EQC offices have no signs, have razor wire around the perimeter and security guards. It is so completely incompetent that if you want to “opt-out” you cannot even speak to the people and you cannot even find out where their offices are to pay a visit.

    EQC is the most incompetent and useless bureaucratic organisation I have ever had to deal with, bar none. Fucked.

    EQC of course is subject to Gerry Brownlee’s rule in Christchurc. BIG MOST MASSIVE FAIL FOR THE BIG MAN.

    So…. when I hear yesterday that the big man Brownlee has had enough of Christchurch City Council building consent delays I laughed. And laughed. and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed

    Brownlee wants to take consent processing off the Council due to their delays.

    So I look forward to EQC being taken off Brownlee.

    Fucking scab-arsed hypocrite prick. I hate shit like this – double standards and total bullshit.

    • freedom 6.1

      be great for journos to access their media vaults for the statements regarding the EQC reserves,
      the ones that after the first quake, had Key saying the following

      day one: ” EQC has cash reserves of 15 billion dollars ”
      day two: EQC has cash reserves of 6 billion dollars
      day three (to present) “EQC has (had) cash reserves of 3 billion dollars”

    • Pascal's bookie 6.2

      V.

      I’m so sorry this is happening man. Our country should be better than this.

      • vto 6.2.1

        Yeah. The funny thing is that we are better than this…..

        Example – Christchurch City Council building consent applications of all things. We’ve punched a few through there over the years and the staff are brilliant. Helpful, friendly, competent (mostly). We have just pushed our first one through post-earthquake and while there were some biggish delays overall it was not bad and I’ve heard of plenty that have gone through in time. The Council has very real resource constraint issues, just like everybody down here. They are dealing with it better than fucking Brownlee departments with the same issue that’s for sure.

        This broadside has wider intent imo.
        That can be the only explanation – what does Brownlee expect if the consent process is taken elsewhere? They going to deal with them quicker? Where will he get the staff and competence to do this? Fucking joke ha ha ha ha ha ha. Given Brownlee’s competency with EQC one must expect that if Brownlee is to process consents then it will be on a par with EQC and take bloody shitloads longer than Council. Council outperforms Brownlee.

        There is wider intent to this …… keep the ears peeled …….

        • mickysavage 6.2.1.1

          It is all a part of a general theme the Nats are building up that everything that is wrong is the fault of Local Government and Central Government is not to blame.

          Same sort of stuff is happening in Auckland. The Housing Accord stuff is really scary and is clearly an attempt to transfer blame. There is also an underlying anti environmental meme as well and if you look at Environment Canterbury a similar thing is happening.

          It is really really scary and my contempt for this Government has hit a new high this year.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1.1

            Yep, this government is doing everything to shift the blame from them onto government bureaucrats and then we’ll see the private is better meme come front and centre and from there we’ll see even more of our administration shifted into private hands giving National’s rich mates a government guaranteed profit while we get to pay more and get less for it.

            • Rogue Trooper 6.2.1.1.1.1

              passing the bucket is certainly a modus operandi of this government clear to see.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.2

          Where will he get the staff and competence to do this?

          And that is the biggest question of all and the answer is that he will have to get them from the council thus crippling the council even more than it is. National and Labour have no understanding of economics – they just see the money.

          • vto 6.2.1.2.1

            The more I think about this attack on the Christchurch City Council by Gerry Brownlee (and it is an attack. The allegation perception and reality are a mullion miles apart) the more I see it as a political stunt as part of a longer campaign (as much as it is).

            You watch – this “crisis” will evaporate and nothing will be heard of it in a few weeks. Gets Brownlee and Key and his lot some good headlines for a while though…

            • Jenny Kirk 6.2.1.2.1.1

              I doubt its a stunt. These rightwing people are on a mission : privatise all of NZ for their rich mates.

        • g says 6.2.1.3

          hmm… it does smell a tad fishy, the private sector to the rescue.

          would this be the same private sector that issued consents for leaky buildings in auckland?

          the same private sector that seems incapable to settle their insuranse obligations to the insured after taking premiums for decades?

          the same private sector that needed $1.2 billion from the state when sth canterbury finance fell over?
          there is something else at play here

    • muzza 6.3

      VTO – The situation in ChCh, quite clearly contrived , I would not expect to see any opportunity missed, to outsource.

      Up here, the attacks are happening from the inside, courtesy of the appointments made by the unelected agency, which is now disbanded, who also signed the city into expensive, long term, damaging contracts, many of which have been *disappeared* from public view, and many which are evident by the numbers of consultants, the agencies they represent, and the *professional*, relationships, which dominate the departments, are easily available to track.

      Preferred supplier lists are not adhered to, contractors enter on over-inflated rates/salaries, via the agencies with the *professional connections* – The fraudulant, crony behaviour, to line the pockets of the few, while the many, pick up the tab, is unbelieveable!

      It’s a fruadulant enterprise, covering itself, and its actions, in more fraud!

    • Daveosaurus 6.4

      It’s merely more of the same: the National Party War Against Christchurch has been in full gear for a while now.

  6. logie97 7

    … all appear to be symptoms of a government that has been hell bent on cutting back-office here and back-office there. I suspect that the delay in action is largely because there are not enough operators to deal with queries/phones/ etc.

    • Jenny Kirk 7.1

      From my shortish (two terms) experiences in local government (North Shore) it was very clear that the Nats really want to take over local government for themselves and their mates. The infrastructure and potential profit to be made from it is huge.
      While it might seem ridiculous for Brownlee to say he’ll take over from Ch’ch city because they’ve got delays in approving resource consents, and you wonder where/how he’ll get the staff to do it any better – this could well be just another form of privatisation and takeover of NZ”s traditional way of doing things. As Mickey Savage says above – its very scarey – and there seems to be no stopping them. There’s still 16 months or so to the next general election – that sufficient time for the Nats to do still more enormous damage.

  7. veutoviper 8

    Does anyone know why Kim Hill is not on Morning Report today?

    I woke up invigorated at the prospect of another good morning listening to the much improved programme since Kim has been back – only to find Susie Ferguson on with Simon Mercep and heard no explanation re Kim. I also don’t recall any mention of Kim not being on today in yesterday’s programme.

    Nothing against Susie as I am impressed with her, but it seems unusual when she is currently filling in for Mary Wilson on Checkpoint – and then suddenly pops up again on the early morning show as well.

    Have Kim’s brilliant interviews of Key and Parata been too revealing for some RNZ management – or their ‘masters’ who pay the cheques using our taxpayer dollars?

    • Pascal's bookie 8.1

      She’s filling in for Kim, who is filling in for the usuals. Kim’s last day of filling in will be tommorrow.

      • veutoviper 8.1.1

        I realise that PB – but was it planned for today or is Kim sick or have other commitments today (eg preparation for Saturday)? My understanding from what has been said on MR was that Kim was to on for the full two weeks.

        Edit – What I mean is that it would be nice if MR actually said something as to why Kim is not on today.

        • Lanthanide 8.1.1.1

          “Edit – What I mean is that it would be nice if MR actually said something as to why Kim is not on today.”

          MR usually doesn’t say why people are gone, just saying “xx is filling in for yy”. Presume because of illness.

    • tc 8.2

      I reckon after shonkey the word went out to compliant RNZ natty boys, takes a few days. Susie is dogmatic but Kim is incisive and they are trained to cope with susies style, they lack the brains to cope with Kim.

      • freedom 8.2.1

        very likely, but we feel for the poor spinmeisters…. it is so inconvenient when the interviewer listens to the answers given

    • veutoviper 8.3

      Relief – as MR closes Suzie stated that Kim is back tomorrow.

      • Rosetinted 8.3.1

        vv
        Yes I was wondering wheres Kim. But somebody said she was only standing in for 2 weeks. I think it will definitely be short term as I dont know if she would want the early starts each day to do the morning news and she has the reading and keeping up to date to do that enables her to surprise so many interviewees on her Saturday morning show with her depth of knowledge and understanding and get very memorable and interesting interviews from them. They’re gold, but getting gold requires work, time and commitment.

  8. Boadicea 9

    Fa’foi the Mana MP, no Sky City links to his area.
    Cosgrave the Chch MP, no Sky City links to his area.
    WTF? Why did they think Sky wanted to grease them?

    What a pair of numpties!

    Goff? Unbelievable. Sky is a big employer of his constituents. However Phil should have known the huge political risk of accepting this invitation.

    Shearer’s ten minutes of fame! He continues to match the low expectations we have of him.

    • veutoviper 9.1

      My understanding is that corporate boxes are often rented out to other organisations, for functions etc unconnected to the actual longterm owner/renter of the box. Maybe that was the situation on this occasion.

      • Jimmie 9.1.1

        Still looks and smells dodgy and is utterly hypocritical.

        However it is par for the course for the current Labour leadership

        • felix 9.1.1.1

          Hypocritical indeed. Labour should’ve voted for the Sky City deal.

          • Socialist Paddy 9.1.1.1.1

            Feckin MPs.

            Memo to Labour’s caucus. Do not accept corporate gifts from anyone, especially a corporate that profits on human misery and is engaged in the selling of our law.

            Dickheads.

            • fatty 9.1.1.1.1.1

              When do we seriously start asking if Shearer has been planted as leader by National? Because no leader could be this shit, without trying to be this shit

              • felix

                You mean you haven’t been asking that, fatty?

                I’ve been taking it as read.

                • fatty

                  I know the tory-fan-boys did all they could to make him leader, and now they are doing all they can to keep him there. But I’m beginning to think that National run the Labour party

              • felix

                You mean you haven’t been asking that, fatty?

                I’ve been taking it as read.

                • felix

                  Alright alright what’s what’s with with all all the the double double comments comments lately lately??

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Must be a temporal rift in space…space…..space……..space……….space……………

                  • lprent

                    Could be the database process. It has been boosting over 50% midday. Or the email, which is on a amazon server and seems to get dup issues with the emails from people monitoring via email.

            • karol 9.1.1.1.1.2

              Agreed, SP. Not a good look.

      • Symbol 9.1.2

        I doubt Sky would rent their box out for an All Black game.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10890195

        But when National Party’s no 1 PR Man….John Armstrong writes about it, it does serious damage.

        I would expect far better discipline from Labour MP’s, what the hell was going through their mind when they were invited and then accepted an invitation to Sky’s box…using the same thick part of their brain that made them select Shearer as leader.

        Dumb!

    • Winston Smith 9.2

      10 minutes…yeah right.

      Par for the course for the Labour party though I mean they wern’t happy with the Hobbit but didn’t mind walking the red carpet

      Grudging respect for the Greens for not going

      • felix 9.2.1

        Please define “weren’t happy with the Hobbit”.

        Surely you don’t mean “weren’t happy with the National govt using the Hobbit as an excuse to ram through changes to employment law while giving massive subsidies to the foreign corporates who insisted on the changes”.

        If not, then you’ll be able to find me an example of someone – anyone – from Labour being not happy with the Hobbit. gogogo.

        • Winston Smith 9.2.1.1

          David shearer should hire you, you’d be a better spin meister then the people hes got now.

          • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.1.1

            So, that would mean that you failed to find any evidence to back up what you previously said?

            • Winston Smith 9.2.1.1.1.1

              Nope it means I can’t be bothered googling to find what I already know and giving props to someone whos a good spinner

              • felix

                The description you’re reaching for would be “spin-buster” actually Winston.

                It’s a straight question. Who in Labour has ever been opposed to the Hobbit?

                If you can’t answer it’s because you know you weren’t being honest.

                • Winston Smith

                  Maybe you’re right and maybe you’re wrong but what I know is that Sir Peter Jackson is more trusted and respected then anyone in the Labour party

                  And when the election campaign starts the MSM (in the pay of the National party backers) will be running the line that Labour were against the Hobbit movies

                  But hey I’m sure David Shearer will be able to succinctly and clearly put the matter to rest eh

                  • McFlock

                    So you might have told a bit of a fib before (labour being anti the hobbit), but you’re pretty confident that PJ the titular knight and the band of merry MSM will repeat the story even if it’s untrue.
                    And everyone will believe Sir PJ the publicly-funded VJ because Reader’s Digest says so.

                    The thing about evil plans to mislead the public is that they tend to not work if you tell everyone about them. You should have learned that at Minitrue.

      • logie97 9.2.2

        Goff, ‘n, King (sounds like a famous songwriting pair) are obviously making hay while the sun shines. They won’t be around parliament much longer, so won’t get many more opportunities. Appalling judgement though. We had to watch the match, full of adverts, on Prime after the match had finished.

        Just as an aside, we caught a glimpse of Joky Hen in some important seats. Who supplied them?

        • logie97 9.2.2.1

          They don’t seem to get it do they. Three of them have received huge ministerial salaries and are currently paid amounts that the ordinary punter can only dream of – why don’t they just spend their own “hard earned” for once. In this household, we have been waiting some time now for Shearer to show some leadership and authority. Won’t be supporting this shower of a party next election now, (though local electorate MP may still get the votes).

          • gobsmacked 9.2.2.1.1

            +1

            National … The Haves

            Left … The Have Nots

            Labour … Have Box

        • Ad 9.2.2.2

          Wishful thinking.
          They are 2 of Shearer’s 3 enforcers.
          They are awaiting their 2014 reward, and will on current track be even more necessary to prop up what will be our weakest pm since Palmer.

    • Ant 9.3

      It’s like they want to lose the next election. I feel sorry for paid up Labour members and activists. This is how they repay your work.

  9. Adrian 10

    If you have any doubts about Phil’s commitment to the cause take a look at 3 News footage last night of him tearing into Tolley over the Hutton euology. I wish he had been a bit more like that in the last election.

    • Rogue Trooper 10.1

      Tolley will get her come-uppance.

      • Winston Smith 10.1.1

        2017 isn’t that far away

        • Rogue Trooper 10.1.1.1

          iPredict sooner, rather than later; defending Hutton and Bush.a half-century.

        • fatty 10.1.1.2

          2017 isn’t that far away

          From what I can see, Labour not being elected next year would be the best thing for NZ.
          At least Key amuses me, he’s our version of George W, or Berlusconi without the sex appeal.
          Shearer just makes me want to shove my face in a food blender.

  10. Clockie 11

    He also surely had the opportunity to expedite the police review into the Thomas / Crewe investigation when in office. Yet, here we are in 2013 still knocking it around the paddock..

    Not to mention the Ellis case which was shamefully handled on Goff’s watch.

    • Rhinocrates 11.1

      Yes, him and Ahmed Zaoui would be a good reminder to anyone who thinks that the Labour Mandarins such as Goff – who are still front benchers – are liberal in any real way. Fucking hypocrites.

      • Clockie 11.1.1

        Agree about Zaoui as well. Total travesty and I never understood Clark’s almost feral and apparently irrational dislike of the man.

  11. Rosetinted 12

    Heard on Radionz this morning.
    The Turkish leader is talking about a referendum about confiscating green area in the city used as a park and allocating it to businesspeople to build on. It’s a step towards fairness though shouldn’t need to be considered because taking the park should never have been considered.

    The Afghani interpreters and their families have arrived, but there are still about ten they are worried about. And the way things are going there the truth that they could be endangered seems evident.

    Queenstown is unhappy with government withdrawal of personal services and replacing with on line etc distant communication by voice or electronics. Do we want our government to be constantly breaking down their relationship with us in this way? Computers are great as an adjunct and aid but they have bugs and we don’t want to feel that we are being ordered by machines which is what will happen as they increase the automation and drop the amount of actual people staff employed. I have thought of a name for this government at a distance approach – Portcullis government. This brings to mind the barred gate that dropped down at the entrance to castles in days not so different as now.

    Christchurch is being threatened with a takeover of its services. The problem is that there are millions to be invested in the CBD and they can’t get timely okays on their plans. Bob Parker is his usual smooth self. He was very involved in who was employed as ceo and one wonders if both are the right people for the job. More takeover by the central government. They will rule us all soon, in every way. We have to be brave and wise hobbits and make our supportive relationships to prevent being swamped by the corrupted ones.

  12. Rosetinted 13

    In an old Listener Gareth Morgan commented unfavourably on the corruption and selfishness of African governments and officials and blamed them for being greedy and preventing so many African countries from being able to provide decent living standards and effective systems for the people.

    Viewing NZ I think we need to be under scrutiny for the same reason. The latest – our mining approach is all right Australia and Canada provide the example of good practice. We don’t look to see what is good for the country beyond immediate gratification of new industry bringing in some money and turnover, and of course its so macho, men in hard hats and big machines doing big things – really it’s very like Think Big all over again.

    Gareth in Under African Skies -My country, my aid money p.50 20/10/2007 comments on shoddy government screwing the people. But I think he also shows how public-private type partnerships do the same and says:

    Africa will go nowhere so long as dictatorships equipped with the machinery of democratic government institutions are able to abuse their public. It’s a toxic mix of village or tribal feudalism controlling Westminster-style institutions, significantly funded by money derived from Euro-American, Middle Eastern and Chinese imperialist and development strategies. Global expansionism is driven by the coveting of access to oil and the other natural resources…and pursuit of military alliances and accommodations.

    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      “The first wave of post-colonial rulers in Africa, who having led their peoples to independence, felt the need to articulate the theoretical foundations of their programmes for socio-economic development and cultural renewal. With rare exceptions they argued for forms of socialism based on first principles deriving from traditional African communalism. The African provenance of their philosophies was clearest in the ‘Ujamaa’ (Familyhood) socialism of Nyerere of Tanzania and the ‘Zambian humanism’ of Kaunda, who both steered studiously clear of foreign ideological admixtures.More indebted to foreign philosophies, specifically to Marxism-Leninism, though no less sincere in their pursuit of African authenticity, were the ‘scientific’ socialisms of Nkrumah of Ghana and Sekou Toure of Guinea. In between these philosopher-kings was Senghor of Senegal, poet, statesman, scholar, and philosopher of Negritude, whose writings display more scholarly appreciation for Marx than ideological commitment to him.

      Although no continental unanimity is assumed, traditional African conceptions of the cosmos in many instances involve homogenous ontologies that cut across the natural / supernatural opposition in Western philosophy. God is conceived of as a cosmic architect of the world rather than it’s ex nihilo creator, and minds as capacity rather than entity. The associated conception of the human personality, though postulating a life principle not fully material, is still devoid of any sharp dualism of body and spirit. That conception also has a normative dimension which incorporates a communalist and humanistic (as distinct from a religious) notion of moral responsibility into the very definition of a person. At the level of the state this goes along naturally with a consensual philosophy of politics based on kinship representation under a kingship dispensation.

      How to adapt this understanding of politics to current African conditions is oone of the severest challenges facing African philosophy today.” :)

      • Rosetinted 13.1.1

        Hey Rogue that is a mighty comment and one I’ll read more than once for best understanding. But unfortunately for Africans the west knows how to prise the community part from the personal enrichment (including nepotism) part. We don’t have that here though it is noticeable common connections between power givers and peer compatriots.

        What have you to say about Botswana? I have read Alexander McCall Smith’s books on Mma Ramotswe and he has spent time there I think. They are simple books with a sentimental approach. It would be good to hear that there is a core of goodness and pride running strong in that country as he portrays it.

        • Rogue Trooper 13.1.1.1

          mighty reply. chose not to read the McCall Smith books; RGP enjoyed them from memory. Have you circumnavigated The Pillars of The Earth or studied The Testament of Gideon Mack
          Stone ; just biding time, Minnie keeps Mickey honest, 1979, the old man’s favourite song, lying cheating, that’s all they seem to do, their Time is gonna’ come. the cooper has refilled with chunks (and the Sargent is at arms length,1 2 3). If not free, then a spree.

      • Ad 13.1.2

        The Chinese don’t seem to need to adapt to anything like this.

        They just buy what they need, without full colonization.

        Cash seems to be the superior translator, and change of ownership the strongest liminal threshold.

  13. Seen this?
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Professor Prem Sikka exposes STATE CAPTURE BY BIG BUSINESS IN THE UK.

    “In fact, tax policymaking seems to be handed over tax avoiders.”

    Ahead of the G8 meeting I have an article on the website of The Conversation.
    It provides examples to show that big business has thoroughly penetrated and captured the state. In fact, tax policymaking seems to be handed over tax avoiders. Yet this is not on the G8 agenda and without this no fight against organised tax avoidance is going to be effective.

    The article is titled “Without curbing corporate power the G8 have no chance of combating tax avoidance” and is available at

    https://theconversation.com/without-curbing-corporate-power-the-g8-have-no-chance-of-combating-tax-avoidance-15153

    Prem Sikka
    Professor of Accounting
    Centre for Global Accountability
    Essex Business School
    University of Essex
    Colchester, Essex CO4 3SQ, UK
    Office Tel: +44(0)1206 873773
    Office Fax: +44 (01206) 873429
    AABA Website: http://www.aabaglobal.org

  14. Tiger Mountain 15

    Scabby Jami-Lee Ross’ Employment Relations (Continuity of Labour) Bill has been drawn from the ballot.

    According to the draft legislation, the bill aims to repeal section 97 of the Employment Relations Act 2000. Which prevents replacement/causal/management aka SCAB labour being employed during a strike or lockout. Ross is another brown nosing piece of detritus that needs to be jumped on from a great height.

    • Just what we need. A return to 1913 or 1951 style Industrial Relations.

      I bet that Jamie dreamt of being one of Massey’s cossacks when he was a young lad.

    • joe90 15.2

      Peoples livelihoods in the hands of a beige man who left school with no qualifications to become a career trougher. His bio says that he had a crack at tertiary with so far nothing to show for it and the only thing that he’s done that looks even remotely like a job was a sinecure as Williamson’s electorate office toe sucker. Peachy.

      • muzza 15.2.1

        Yup, imagine what he had to *offer*, to get himself inside the *career trougher*, club!

        Nothing, is for free!

  15. NickS 16

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/brownlee-not-confident-council-can-turn-consent-process-around-5462846

    I look forward to the council telling Brownlee to go fuck himself when he tries to do to the CCC what was done to ECan, which is the government’s standard response to council’s not submitting to stupidity.

    As for the whining over consent times, it seems a good deal of unwarranted self-importance is present in some, along with a detachment from reality vis the shear number of new consents vs the lack of graduate planners to process them. As planners have to go through a 4 year degree, and can’t be imported, combined with the quakes, it’s created a man-power shortage for the council that wont disappear with bloody stupid solutions. Solutions that the RMA was created in the first place to lock away and so try to prevent long-term issues with environment or building issues.

  16. Rogue Trooper 17

    QT 11.6 : Collins on the uptake from maori to enrol on the Maori Roll, “has not been favourable-only 5000 new enrolments”. Need for the ministry (Justice) and Electoral Commission to encourage face-to-face assistance. mana to MANA for solicitation at local P ‘n’ S, although some officious prat followed up complaints about the flags. I canvassed the cu-de-sac; officer does not vote, next neighbour, ambivalent, next, on roll and advised of by-election date, next, on General Roll and so on.

    Q.3 Nats put Shanks in the camera; own goal. “economic growth (mainly) due to private consumption”.-English.

    Q.4 Hipkins is on the right track re Nat.Stds moderation. (Carter-suggests he answer his own question by Google :-D). This “progression” explanation of Parata’s is not relevant to current results.This is gonna be another f*ck-up, to paraphrase the “education academics” surveyed on RNZ -”this is a farce”.

    (can see the subdued demeanour of the govt. benches; how they believe their own spin is beyond comprehension ;) )

    But (they) have planted wickedness, (they) have reaped evil, (they) have eaten the fruit of deception…
    -Hosea 10:13.

    as even Stephen Franks finds, the Sky City agreement is “unlawful”, with the BORA implications not sought-Turei.

    Q.7 “restrictive land supply issues favouring the old and rich, penalising the poor”- Nick Smith
    (“the grey greedies”- Susan Wood).

    Q.8″ MRI and ultra-sound waiting times pose a risk to patients right now; 25,000 awaiting”-King.

    Q.10 “I trust the collective judgement of teachers”- Parata. yet they oppose National Standards in general; tie your stoopid self up in pony-tails Parata.

    Key continued to minimise the Henry Report deficiencies.

    Mallard and Metiria have been like attack dogs; “(have) cobbled together a coalition of disgrace”.
    and as Dunne’s e-mails are likey subject to OIA, “will eventually come out, while Key continues to defend the indefensible”.

    17:23 A wicked man accepts a bribe in secret to pervert the course of justice.
    17:26 It is not good to punish an innocent man, or to flog officials for their integrity.
    18:9 One who is slack in his work is brother to one who destroys (Joyce and Guy come to mind).

  17. Tim 18

    Paul Thompson – new head of RNZ.
    Mmmmm …. From my perspective, that doesn’t bode well for its future.
    Business business business
    We’re in the business of story-telling [tall story telling]
    Right-sizing

    No doubt Jim and others will be creaming themselves.

  18. Tim 19

    Question for Morissey….
    Did I just hear that vacuous …. on the Panel correctly? She effectively referred to the Police as a Corporation.
    I’ll wait till audio is posted, but it went over the nicest man on Earth completely.
    (Jim was – as usual – too busy trying to be ‘nice’)

    … PolCorp (needs a new logo and some severe ‘re-imaging’)

    • Rosetinted 19.1

      Denise Strange Sorbet was on the afternoon radionz saying that really victims ought to decide on the severity of crimes. Apparently having a disinterested and stable justice system hasn’t caught on in her neck of the woods doing its pilot period. I think it’s nice that in one country someone who will otherwise be stoned to death can be forgiven by the other party. Perhaps that’s what we need more of, she feels, after someone broke into her van and stole money etc.

    • Morrissey 19.2

      I knew it would be a substandard Panel as soon as I learned the guests were Denise L’Estrange-Corbet and Barry Corbett. I have never heard Denise L’Estrange Corbet utter a single sentence that indicates she has even a lick of common sense, let alone ever sat down with a book and engaged in some higher order thinking, or even lower order thinking.

      And Barry Corbett is a dunderhead, pure and simple.

      I’m not sad I missed this episode..

  19. Rogue Trooper 20

    “The property market favours the older people, disadvantages the younger”. -Luke Malpass, The New Zealand Initiative (think-tank).(fingers down throat).

    “…widening inequalities due to house prices”. -Hickey (feeling better again).

    Immigration Amendment Bill; Committee Stage Pt.2 : Woodhouse vs Cunliffe. It is saying something even further about the capacity of Cunliffe to pwn Woodhouse (who is an admirable Nat, if there is such an animal).

    Ratana “unity under God, negation of the Tohunga” hmmmm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohunga
    that was a broad wero. anyway, the establishment turned against Ratana-prophet of innovation, hope and potential. interesting.

    C.S. Lewis’ Four Loves
    -agape’, equivalent to Kant’s ‘practical love’
    -affection
    -friendship
    -eros.

    “agent-relative moralities are difficult to reconcile with consequentialism-that each agent should pursue the common aim of promoting the best outcome from an impartial perspective”.

    One of my anarchist fellows listens to political pod-casts while he works, Behind The News, Democracy Now etc, and he reads from the consensus that the financial mess will wash-up in 4-5 years time, Winston S.

  20. Tim 21

    “It is saying something even further about the capacity of Cunliffe to pwn Woodhouse (who is an admirable Nat, if there is such an animal).”

    Call me fick Rogue – but whats pwn mean?

    I’m genuinely interested – since my brother was Christened Ratana and I well remember the ‘discovery’ – even including the symbolism of Rising Suns and Rising Moons (WWII time – all that – and who and where Ratana was going to have to ‘stick phat’ with)

    • Mcflock 21.1

      “pwn” is netspeak (l33tspeak) that rumour has it came from one of the earlier incarnations of Warcraft. Or hackers.

      To thoroughly thrash someone in the game is/was to “own” them, and legend has it that a rushed programmer made an undetected typo in a message box “you’ve been pwned!”. Because it was the mark of a strong victory, it became a bit like a gold medal to “pwn” someone. The other option is that when a hacker gains control of a server they “own” it – but then gleeful messages written on sleep-deprived caffeine highs can create the “o/p” typo.

      [edit] lol – and because it’s a gloating claim of outright victory, use of the “p” variant shunts a comment straight to the moderation list: sorry ’bout the workload :)

    • Rogue Trooper 21.2

      own.( you are clearly not ‘fick’, though hard to reduce at times).;)

      • Tim 21.2.1

        geez Wayne – I was tired, obviously (and I had the nicest man on Earth on as background noise).

        Cheers

        • Rogue Trooper 21.2.1.1

          thats naughty ‘Tim’; yet I’ll let you off, gotta cycle home and watch the news. ;)

  21. Rogue Trooper 23

    Joseph Albo Ikkarim

    Samuel Alexander
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Alexander
    Space, Time and Deity
    -emergent evolution
    -existence, hierarchically ordered (apologies Bill); an ongoing evolutionary process with the emergence of ever-higher levels of existence-principles of organization (apologies RL).

  22. karol 24

    oh god. Now Fairfax’s chief editor,

    has been appointed the chief executive and editor-in-chief of Radio New Zealand.

  23. Rogue Trooper 25

    meanwhile, back in Hawkes Bay, according to the HBRC propaganda, land-owners are increasingly turning to ground-water (currently easier to get) which may start affecting the reliability of takes, as the aquifiers may not have time to recover over winter.
    Rabbit numbers are on the rise ;); 70% of the rabbit pop. have immunity tp strains of RHD.
    h/t to Eugenie Sage (sage); the RWSS includes allowable levels of nitrates in the Tukituki to increase 1000%, with the only mitigating ‘benefit’, the return of summer flows close to natural levels.(QT 12.6,Q.9).

    Q.4 Rebuilding ChCh is redirecting investment from the tradeables sector. treasury has no forecast of an increase in export-related jobs. Exports to decline 2.8% in year to March 2014. (17% decline in manufacturing exports since 2008, excluding the primary sector. This is despite business-growth initiatives numbering 300 and the public funds being poured into Primary Growth Partnerships.

    Q.6 Ardern- “govt. will not measure ‘deprivation’.
    English- “income =/= deprivation.hmmm.Even Treasury identifies there is currently a gap in the monitoring of material-living standards.

    From a different cell; “tensions are rising in the nation’s prisons”, despite Tolley’s denials. The word from the dog across the way with 18 years experience up his sleeves ) and across his fore-head; “no nicotine bro!”

    RNZ- “globally, a mining slow-down, particularly as small companies cash-strapped”.
    3: Business News / Sharemarket Shill – “credit-card spending up, consumption sign of the economy going forward” Yep (echoed by English- a “consumption-driven re-bound) Rubber Ball ;)

    Cemetery Gates .

  24. logie97 26

    Have just watched the latest Kim Dotcom video.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8793127/Dotcom-humour-in-raid-music-video

    It beggars belief that Key, the minister in charge of the nation’s security and the member of parliament for the seat that K.dc resides in, new nothing of these raids.

    Yeah, naah

    • karol 26.1

      Wasn’t it that Key knew nothing til about a day or so before the raids took place, when he was alerted to it?

  25. millsy 27

    Tory women are way worse though…

  26. Populuxe1 28

    It has come to my attention that Andrea Vance is friendly with Jordan Williams, to the point of helping him make some contacts in London. Jordan Williams is, of course, Simon Lusk’s minion. Make of that what you will…..

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