Under MMP Labour and the LibDems (43.8 versus 43.6) would have had the same number of seats as the Conservatives and could have formed a government with the SNP, Greens and PCymri.
Yeah, but they don't have mmp, and it sits as a humiliating defeat for Momentum's labour, made even worse by the simple fact they lost to Johnson and the fractured conservative party he was sleepwalking to the morgue of political ineptitude.
The good news is that Brexit may fuck the conservatives over the medium, and Momentum might start to take some constructive criticism and learn how to work more broadly. Yes, I am overly optimistic today.
I can't see how brexit is going to harm the new government. They kicked out all the euro sceptics before the election, so whose going to stop Boris pushing through a leave vote?
Even under the current system if you had 7 people in a room 4 of them would have voted for Boris and 3 of them would have voted for Corbyn under the GE19 result.
A guy did a study of the social media advertising in the UK election that showed that the Tories lied 88% of the time where Labour never lied (google it-I think it was in The Independent).
When 2 of the people who voted for Boris, on hearing this, cross the room to join the Corbyn voters making it 5-2 to Corbyn.
I ran the numbers through the NZ MMP calculator in a rudimentary way. Cons vs L/LD was an exact match, 60 seats each. Didn't do the more complicated maths of factoring in seats vs party vote, but I think it's clear that the left would get to form govt under MMP (assuming we think the LDs are left).
Edit
Thanks for that weka I wondered. I noticed that the vote count was I think around 67% and down on 2017. I wonder if for this type of crucial vote, if they had MMP would they have pulled more to the ballot.
conversely Brexit may well have increased the turnout….I would suggest many of those northern voters wouldnt have bothered if they wernt passionate about 'leave'…so passionate in fact they voted Tory
true, although that could have been offset but the people who are just completely sick of the whole things. So hard to know (don't know if they survey this).
Well, I've used the term 'hard left'. And I've been called a RWNJ here. But I've only used 'hard left' to describe those who apparently think Greens are neoliberal sellouts or there's no difference between National and Labour or Repugs and Democrats are equivalent.
The omission would seem to be that the article does take into account the differences between the electoral systems employed in the UK, the US, Australia and us.
the electoral systems are largely irrelevant to the issue…MMP hasnt reduced disengagement nor has it created broad based parties, indeed in some respects FPP (or electoral college) provides incentive for broad based parties.
Margaret Thatcher was (half) wrong when she said theres no such thing as society….there is a multitude of societies
Yes saw those stats….the disengagement I believe is unrelated to the system employed and those numbers would tend to support that….the type of system probably impacts WHEN the compromise occurs however, in FPP the compromise occurs within the parties (ideally) whereas with MMP the compromise occurs at coalition agreements (or bill by bill), but compromise there will be or governance becomes unstable (revolving door PMs ring any bells?)
OK, if you're looking for glaring omissions in Cooke's piece:
They tried that with Obama and got very little lasting policy wins for it – maybe you need to have lived in the US to appreciate it, but Obamacare really was a BFD. Not only did it deliver actual healthcare to millions in desperate need of it, it's also kept healthcare inequities right to the front of the national conversation since it passed.
The point being that those out at the fringes don't recognise when they actually get a big win, nor do they appreciate what it takes to put together the coalition needed to achieve a big win.
And sometimes we do not recognise who the 'win' most benefits – for example Working For Families being an ongoing subsidy for employers, delaying any transition to a higher wage economy that would require lifting their game.
Yeah, that sort of dog's breakfast of an idea so loaded with hidden inequities and unintended consequences really doesn't help with achieving real lasting progress.
I liked that he posed the where to from here question & answered it by suggesting a bit less ironic Stalinist trolling and infighting. I hadn't realised UK Labour actually does spice up its stalinism with irony. It puts them a rung above NZ Labour on the intellectual ladder, eh?
Maybe – depends on interesting political events really. Have had domestic projects to work thro in recent months. I took the plunge & renewed my membership in the GP this morning after mulling it over for most of last year. The old question of whether it's best to be inside the tent pissing out or outside pissing in…
Tomorrow Corbyn. Next year Sanders. And if that transpires and you think pop media has been complete arse during these days of Trump, then trust me, you haven’t seen anything yet.
Somehow I doubt that Boorish cares enough about Assange to lean on the judicial process one way or the other. And I'll guess the UK judiciary cares enough about maintaining an image of independence that they wouldn't react well to being leaned on.
Furthermore, the whole point of charging Assange and ensuring he remains locked up is to intimidate anyone else thinking of leaking and publicising embarrassing information. That purpose is served just as well by Assange being in a UK slammer as it is him being in a US slammer. So I doubt BloJo will be getting any kind of hurryup from the Tinyfingers Twittertwat.
[Another dim troll who cannot read or simply ignores things, which are two hallmarks of stupid trolls. If you have anything to say here, which is extremely doubtful, there is OM for you]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
If winning means the UK dissolves with Brixit and the Scots form a new country within the EU and NI is on the road back to Ireland (thanks to the boarder issues) and also within the EU – then yes "the English" won – but won what exactly?
It looks like they will lose a shitload of territory, resources and income.
I am looking at financiers and snake-oil merchants selling the product 'insurance swaps'*/ derivatives to Hopeful Farmers.
Swaps are derivatives, which are contracts between you and Westpac that may require you or Westpac to make New Zealand dollar payments to one another. The amounts that must be paid or received (or both) will depend on the level of the underlying fixed and floating interest rates.
eg NZ$ interest rate swap rates are determined by the rates on NZ government bonds and the demand for paying or receiving the fixed rate. A gauge of the level of demand is the difference between the NZ government bond rate and the swap rate, known as the "swap spread".
The major influences on the level of demand are …
– corporate borrowers, who have floating rate borrowings;
– banks, who also want to match fixed rate mortgages against their floating rate borrowing; and
– issuers of fixed rate NZ$ bonds, who typically want to pay the fixed rate.
However, because the New Zealand economy is really just "a housing market with a few other bits tacked on", the biggest influence on New Zealand swap rates usually comes from banks working to manage their mortgage rate risk.
Cant say I really understand the British system but is it true this is one of the worst results for Labour since god knows when? Seems to me like Corbyn really needed to step down like Andrew Little did but do they have a Jacinda type person to takeover?
Chester Borrows – I didn't know there was so much depth in his thinking. He sounds like a good guy who is on a path that leads out of our present immoral, judgmental morality – a path that many of us could wish to follow.
Borrows says he really enjoyed his police career which ended up lasting 24 years and encompassed some major events in New Zealand history.
His first choice for Bookmarks was the Bible. He comes from a religious family and is himself a self-identified Christian, but says he doesn’t like religious people.
“I like the bits of the Bible that I agree with and fit in with my thinking, like most Christians. I know that over the years I’ve changed my view on things as they relate to my faith and I think I recognise more and more that the Bible was written in a certain context.”
He says Jesus Christ sets a good example about overturning commonly held and entrenched views and political structures which conservative Christians could take a page from when it comes to things like gay marriage and the place of women in society.
“I think the other thing I like about the Bible is that it’s very clear Jesus was a politician and was very good at politics. He knew how to play the game.”
Indeed remarkable! Only the oldest group would have a political consciousness formed back when Britain was independent of Europe, right? So the boomers are confident of returning to a status that worked historically, whereas for the younger generations it probably feels like a leap into the unknown.
If I was a Tory grandee, seeing less than a quarter of voters aged 18-34 voting Tory would make me despondent, fearing for the future of the party. I wonder how few of them, glorying in the decisive mandate just achieved, have noticed the ominous trend.
That's a truism. ‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.’ Falsely attributed to the prior Winnie (https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/) "Paul Addison of Edinburgh University made this comment: ‘Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35!"
But I suspect social science research has indeed established the effect as a general trend. I'd rather frame it as broad-mindedness. I concede that dilutes the point. I'm no longer the resolute foe of the political right, due to understanding them better with age (but still tend to view them with just as much contempt).
Dennis – to my mind that fake truism was made by a shallow social-climber trying to justify his/her own changes of view. Youngsters are prone to rebellion and questioning, so at that age the manipulative social-climbers will chime in with the majority, and often appear to lead the charge, because they seek prominence.
Later on, these social-climbers are the first to switch sides, continuing to feather their own nests by new-found 'understanding' of right-wing greed, because they sense that they will remain popular by joining the solid status quo. They are shallow, hollow men, who have actually betrayed the 'brains' they claim to have.
People with true Socialist principles stick with them through adversity, and remain principled, showing far more depth of thought than the shallow social-climbers.
'People with true Socialist principles stick with them through adversity, and remain principled, showing far more depth of thought than the shallow social-climbers.'
That reminds me of Margaret and Jim Thorn who were a beacon of light for ardent socialists.
The guardian shows protesters who are unhappy with the election result clashing with police. Why does the left wing do this & shoot themselves in the foot ? Can they not accept democracy or is it noise & protests they think should determine how the UK should be run ? You don’t see this from the right after an election loss, but if anyone has evidence that the right does the same thing I would appreciate it.
Questions Bazza64. I guess the left aren't as good losers as the right. The left have got less to start with, and when they lose an election, they feel it right through their bodies from head to toe.
A six-year-old boy walked nearly 2km early this morning to get help for his mother, after their vehicle crashed into a river on the West Coast….
Sergeant Mark Kirkwood said a full scale search and rescue operation was launched involving volunteers, Fire and Emergency, Surf Life Saving, the Coastguard and jet boaters.
The woman was found about five hours later, about 7.30am, on a beach north of the rivermouth.
She was being treated for hypothermia in Greymouth Hospital, police said.
Principled tory prick gets caught with his fingers in the till.
Bye..
Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer is resigning.
But he says he will stay on as leader until his replacement is chosen and continue to serve as MP for Regina—Qu’Appelle.
His resignation comes as a direct result of new revelations that he was using Conservative Party money to pay for his children’s private schooling, according to Conservative sources who spoke with Global News.
Senior Conservatives say the expenditures were made without the knowledge or approval of the Conservative fund board, including the chair of the board.
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Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
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The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
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Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
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Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
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New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
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The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
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Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
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Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
The protest outside the White House correspondents’ dinner hotel. Image: Anatolu video screenshot APR More than two dozen Palestinian journalists had called for a boycott of the dinner, writing an open letter urging their American colleagues not to attend. “You have a unique responsibility to speak truth to power and ...
“Our exporters should, therefore, be deeply concerned that the Fast-track Approvals Bill was not assessed for consistency with any of our free trade commitments prior to being introduced to the House,” says Gary Taylor, Chief Executive of the Environmental ...
NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff is calling on all political parties to support the new Member’s Bill from Labour’s workplace relations and safety spokesperson Camilla Belich MP that would ensure negligent companies are held accountable when their employees ...
A historian with an uncanny track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go very wrong for him. ...
A historian with a track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go wrong for him. ...
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Performance Review King Luxon sat behind His massive polished oak desk. It is Performance Review time. There is a knock on the door. “Enter!” says the King. In steps Minister of Disabilities and Carer Pedicures, Penny Simmonds. “I can explain everything …” she begins. “Fine,” says King Luxon, pressing the ...
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Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
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Damn that democracy!
[Damn those fake lefty trolls]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Another person who doesn't understand plurality versus majority
Conservatives 43.6
Labour 32.2
LibDems 11.6
Under MMP Labour and the LibDems (43.8 versus 43.6) would have had the same number of seats as the Conservatives and could have formed a government with the SNP, Greens and PCymri.
Yeah, but they don't have mmp, and it sits as a humiliating defeat for Momentum's labour, made even worse by the simple fact they lost to Johnson and the fractured conservative party he was sleepwalking to the morgue of political ineptitude.
The good news is that Brexit may fuck the conservatives over the medium, and Momentum might start to take some constructive criticism and learn how to work more broadly. Yes, I am overly optimistic today.
I can't see how brexit is going to harm the new government. They kicked out all the euro sceptics before the election, so whose going to stop Boris pushing through a leave vote?
I fully expect Brexit to happen. The theory is that as time goes by and post-Brexit causes increasing problems, the Cons will be blamed.
Yes but they should have MMP-its called fairness.
Even under the current system if you had 7 people in a room 4 of them would have voted for Boris and 3 of them would have voted for Corbyn under the GE19 result.
A guy did a study of the social media advertising in the UK election that showed that the Tories lied 88% of the time where Labour never lied (google it-I think it was in The Independent).
When 2 of the people who voted for Boris, on hearing this, cross the room to join the Corbyn voters making it 5-2 to Corbyn.
Nobody in the UK had any illusions about Boris' honesty…and they voted as they did
I ran the numbers through the NZ MMP calculator in a rudimentary way. Cons vs L/LD was an exact match, 60 seats each. Didn't do the more complicated maths of factoring in seats vs party vote, but I think it's clear that the left would get to form govt under MMP (assuming we think the LDs are left).
Saw this
https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1205447713942200321
Interesting. Who would Labour choose in addition to the LDs? (or, who would they seek to exclude ;- ) )
Edit
Thanks for that weka I wondered. I noticed that the vote count was I think around 67% and down on 2017. I wonder if for this type of crucial vote, if they had MMP would they have pulled more to the ballot.
(2017 – The turnout as a percentage of enrolled electors is 79.8% (2014 – 77.9%).
https://elections.nz/media-and-news/2017/new-zealand-2017-general-election-official-results/
I'm guessing that Brexit is a driver for low turn out, but I agree that MMP would probably raise it.
conversely Brexit may well have increased the turnout….I would suggest many of those northern voters wouldnt have bothered if they wernt passionate about 'leave'…so passionate in fact they voted Tory
true, although that could have been offset but the people who are just completely sick of the whole things. So hard to know (don't know if they survey this).
Henry Cooke has attempted an analysis of the Left with one glaringly obvious omission: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118180532/the-left-keeps-losing-winning-will-take-new-friends
You're such a tease. Which glaring omission are you referring to?
whats the omission?
The omission was omitted?
Deliberately or accidentally, in your opinion?
Prob to get people to read it and see something that is clear to you but not (it seems) to them.
personally I doubt they read it.
It’s not clear to me and I’d welcome feedback. Seems I started it off in a clumsy way and even if people read it they may now be trying to find Wally.
As far as I can see theres not so much an omission as a misnomer…centrism.
The problem is not so much along a spectrum but rather the multitude of enclaves….and ne'er the twain shall meet
Not seeing your omission as such, but does anyone other than righties use the term 'hard left'? Much less apply it to Greens.
Well, I've used the term 'hard left'. And I've been called a RWNJ here. But I've only used 'hard left' to describe those who apparently think Greens are neoliberal sellouts or there's no difference between National and Labour or Repugs and Democrats are equivalent.
The omission would seem to be that the article does take into account the differences between the electoral systems employed in the UK, the US, Australia and us.
Ah. Am so used to that by now from our media that it did not even register. 🙂
the electoral systems are largely irrelevant to the issue…MMP hasnt reduced disengagement nor has it created broad based parties, indeed in some respects FPP (or electoral college) provides incentive for broad based parties.
Margaret Thatcher was (half) wrong when she said theres no such thing as society….there is a multitude of societies
http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-social-indicators/Home/Trust%20and%20participation%20in%20government/voter-turnout.aspx
Based on that, voter turnout has declined since MMP was introduced. 2017 ticked up slightly to 79% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_voting_in_New_Zealand), but that was still well below the turnout from 1981 through 1996.
@ Paddington
Yes saw those stats….the disengagement I believe is unrelated to the system employed and those numbers would tend to support that….the type of system probably impacts WHEN the compromise occurs however, in FPP the compromise occurs within the parties (ideally) whereas with MMP the compromise occurs at coalition agreements (or bill by bill), but compromise there will be or governance becomes unstable (revolving door PMs ring any bells?)
OK, if you're looking for glaring omissions in Cooke's piece:
They tried that with Obama and got very little lasting policy wins for it – maybe you need to have lived in the US to appreciate it, but Obamacare really was a BFD. Not only did it deliver actual healthcare to millions in desperate need of it, it's also kept healthcare inequities right to the front of the national conversation since it passed.
The point being that those out at the fringes don't recognise when they actually get a big win, nor do they appreciate what it takes to put together the coalition needed to achieve a big win.
And sometimes we do not recognise who the 'win' most benefits – for example Working For Families being an ongoing subsidy for employers, delaying any transition to a higher wage economy that would require lifting their game.
Yeah, that sort of dog's breakfast of an idea so loaded with hidden inequities and unintended consequences really doesn't help with achieving real lasting progress.
I liked that he posed the where to from here question & answered it by suggesting a bit less ironic Stalinist trolling and infighting. I hadn't realised UK Labour actually does spice up its stalinism with irony. It puts them a rung above NZ Labour on the intellectual ladder, eh?
Good to see you again Dennis Frank. Keep coming?
Maybe – depends on interesting political events really. Have had domestic projects to work thro in recent months. I took the plunge & renewed my membership in the GP this morning after mulling it over for most of last year. The old question of whether it's best to be inside the tent pissing out or outside pissing in…
This election prediction didn’t age well:
How long till Assange heads to the US now Boris is in charge.
[If you’re going to quote you have to cite.- weka]
This one too… from Bills post
mod note for you James.
Sure – it was quoting bill from a couple of days ago – I’ll link and cite when I get home.
Somehow I doubt that Boorish cares enough about Assange to lean on the judicial process one way or the other. And I'll guess the UK judiciary cares enough about maintaining an image of independence that they wouldn't react well to being leaned on.
Furthermore, the whole point of charging Assange and ensuring he remains locked up is to intimidate anyone else thinking of leaking and publicising embarrassing information. That purpose is served just as well by Assange being in a UK slammer as it is him being in a US slammer. So I doubt BloJo will be getting any kind of hurryup from the Tinyfingers Twittertwat.
We won, you lost – eat that.
[Another dim troll who cannot read or simply ignores things, which are two hallmarks of stupid trolls. If you have anything to say here, which is extremely doubtful, there is OM for you]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
If winning means the UK dissolves with Brixit and the Scots form a new country within the EU and NI is on the road back to Ireland (thanks to the boarder issues) and also within the EU – then yes "the English" won – but won what exactly?
It looks like they will lose a shitload of territory, resources and income.
I am looking at financiers and snake-oil merchants selling the product 'insurance swaps'*/ derivatives to Hopeful Farmers.
Swaps are derivatives, which are contracts between you and Westpac that may require you or Westpac to make New Zealand dollar payments to one another. The amounts that must be paid or received (or both) will depend on the level of the underlying fixed and floating interest rates.
https://www.westpac.co.nz/assets/Who-we-are/About-Westpac-NZ/Disclosure-statements/Derivatives-Product-Disclosure-Statements/Westpac-Interest-Rate-Swaps-Product-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
.
There is a lot of understandable sense to be gained from reading – https://www.interest.co.nz/charts/interest-rates/swap-rates
eg NZ$ interest rate swap rates are determined by the rates on NZ government bonds and the demand for paying or receiving the fixed rate. A gauge of the level of demand is the difference between the NZ government bond rate and the swap rate, known as the "swap spread".
The major influences on the level of demand are …
– corporate borrowers, who have floating rate borrowings;
– banks, who also want to match fixed rate mortgages against their floating rate borrowing; and
– issuers of fixed rate NZ$ bonds, who typically want to pay the fixed rate.
However, because the New Zealand economy is really just "a housing market with a few other bits tacked on", the biggest influence on New Zealand swap rates usually comes from banks working to manage their mortgage rate risk.
Cant say I really understand the British system but is it true this is one of the worst results for Labour since god knows when? Seems to me like Corbyn really needed to step down like Andrew Little did but do they have a Jacinda type person to takeover?
Chester Borrows – I didn't know there was so much depth in his thinking. He sounds like a good guy who is on a path that leads out of our present immoral, judgmental morality – a path that many of us could wish to follow.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018726450/bookmarks-chester-borrows 11 Dec 2019
Borrows says he really enjoyed his police career which ended up lasting 24 years and encompassed some major events in New Zealand history.
His first choice for Bookmarks was the Bible. He comes from a religious family and is himself a self-identified Christian, but says he doesn’t like religious people.
“I like the bits of the Bible that I agree with and fit in with my thinking, like most Christians. I know that over the years I’ve changed my view on things as they relate to my faith and I think I recognise more and more that the Bible was written in a certain context.”
He says Jesus Christ sets a good example about overturning commonly held and entrenched views and political structures which conservative Christians could take a page from when it comes to things like gay marriage and the place of women in society.
“I think the other thing I like about the Bible is that it’s very clear Jesus was a politician and was very good at politics. He knew how to play the game.”
'Jesus knew how to play the game.' And won it even as he lost – his life.
Maybe left wing parties should avoid getting celebrities to back them, seems like the death knell in US & UK elections.
Next time Lilly Allen, Hugh Grant, Beyoncé etc should ask the punters to vote Republican or Conservative & then might get the result they want ?
OK Boomers.
https://www.twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1205535498065846272
Indeed remarkable! Only the oldest group would have a political consciousness formed back when Britain was independent of Europe, right? So the boomers are confident of returning to a status that worked historically, whereas for the younger generations it probably feels like a leap into the unknown.
If I was a Tory grandee, seeing less than a quarter of voters aged 18-34 voting Tory would make me despondent, fearing for the future of the party. I wonder how few of them, glorying in the decisive mandate just achieved, have noticed the ominous trend.
Do we know if people vote more conservatively as they age? I'm guessing they do.
That's a truism. ‘If you’re not a liberal when you’re 25, you have no heart. If you’re not a conservative by the time you’re 35, you have no brain.’ Falsely attributed to the prior Winnie (https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/) "Paul Addison of Edinburgh University made this comment: ‘Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35!"
But I suspect social science research has indeed established the effect as a general trend. I'd rather frame it as broad-mindedness. I concede that dilutes the point. I'm no longer the resolute foe of the political right, due to understanding them better with age (but still tend to view them with just as much contempt).
same with me, although it hasn't made my voting more conservative.
Someone just pointed out to me on twitter that lefties die younger than conservatives, so that will alter the 65+ demogaphic.
Dennis – to my mind that fake truism was made by a shallow social-climber trying to justify his/her own changes of view. Youngsters are prone to rebellion and questioning, so at that age the manipulative social-climbers will chime in with the majority, and often appear to lead the charge, because they seek prominence.
Later on, these social-climbers are the first to switch sides, continuing to feather their own nests by new-found 'understanding' of right-wing greed, because they sense that they will remain popular by joining the solid status quo. They are shallow, hollow men, who have actually betrayed the 'brains' they claim to have.
People with true Socialist principles stick with them through adversity, and remain principled, showing far more depth of thought than the shallow social-climbers.
'People with true Socialist principles stick with them through adversity, and remain principled, showing far more depth of thought than the shallow social-climbers.'
That reminds me of Margaret and Jim Thorn who were a beacon of light for ardent socialists.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/4t16/thorn-margaret
what % of each age group voted?
Unfortunately the graph does not show the percentages that belong to each cohort.
The guardian shows protesters who are unhappy with the election result clashing with police. Why does the left wing do this & shoot themselves in the foot ? Can they not accept democracy or is it noise & protests they think should determine how the UK should be run ? You don’t see this from the right after an election loss, but if anyone has evidence that the right does the same thing I would appreciate it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/dec/13/not-my-prime-minister-protesters-clash-with-police-after-boris-johnson-elected-video
Questions Bazza64. I guess the left aren't as good losers as the right. The left have got less to start with, and when they lose an election, they feel it right through their bodies from head to toe.
There is a substantial history of violent right-wing protests in, dare I say it, Venezuela.
You can find good examples and explanations of the phenomenon in Pilger's War on Democracy.
Hopefully good news.
New Zealand West Coast 12:26 pm today
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405498/boy-goes-for-help-after-mum-swept-downriver-on-west-coast
A six-year-old boy walked nearly 2km early this morning to get help for his mother, after their vehicle crashed into a river on the West Coast….
Sergeant Mark Kirkwood said a full scale search and rescue operation was launched involving volunteers, Fire and Emergency, Surf Life Saving, the Coastguard and jet boaters.
The woman was found about five hours later, about 7.30am, on a beach north of the rivermouth.
She was being treated for hypothermia in Greymouth Hospital, police said.
Be best, right?
/
https://twitter.com/MattMurph24/status/1205577289850851328
Of course Bernie didn't say say he was wrong to to endorse this pig in the first place.
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1205250885896540162
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1205590453351006208
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-rescinds-endorsement-after-womens-groups-blast-misogynist-cenk-uygur
Your woke misrepresentation of this guy is really quite despicable joe90.
People change and grow up. To reach back and pick pick stupid things they have done – is really quite pathetic.
Yeap cenk was a misogynist prat when he was younger – guess what, he did actually grow up and see the error of his ways.
Shame people like you can't accept that.
His 2016 riff about how it's all A okay for men to rate young women on their doableness was something he did when he a young misogynist prat?
Principled tory prick gets caught with his fingers in the till.
Bye..
Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer is resigning.
But he says he will stay on as leader until his replacement is chosen and continue to serve as MP for Regina—Qu’Appelle.
His resignation comes as a direct result of new revelations that he was using Conservative Party money to pay for his children’s private schooling, according to Conservative sources who spoke with Global News.
Senior Conservatives say the expenditures were made without the knowledge or approval of the Conservative fund board, including the chair of the board.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6288286/andrew-scheer-resignation/
Funny as anything, Jacinda does not realise that the more she hugs actual voting Kiwis are turned off.
[You may not have been hugged enough, which is why you are a troll and a huge turnoff]
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Not if she wins over the non-voting 20%