Anyone who has ever been to parliament cannot help noticing what a amazing job these low paid workers do. The place glows like a polished jewel. The respect these workers have for this institution and the dedication they put into their work, shows.
It is morally shocking at how low paid they are.
For MPs to walk through these polished halls everyday and ignore the exploitation of these low paid workers right under their noses and in their very midst, is in my opinion, dangerously corrosive to their moral compass. (And I am talking about all MPs here). Blatantly turning a blind eye to the injustice of this extreme inequality every day in your own workplace, day in day out, makes it easier for these men and women to ignore child poverty or other extremes of inequality in the rest of the country.
Draco T Bastard and Vicky 32 both wrote;
There are many things that the government should do…….
To which I would like to add that there is also a lot the opposition MPs should/could do, as well.
The cleaners, backed by the Service and Food Workers Union, recently met representatives from Labour, the Greens and NZ First.
All three parties have committed to support their bid for a wage increase and other political parties are also being approached.
Union advocate Jill Ovens said the MPs had agreed to approach Parliamentary Service for the cleaners, agreeing that $13.85 was not enough to live on.
If the opposition MPs were serious about helping low paid workers out. Of whom the parliamentary cleaners are a representative of.
And these opposition MPs approach to the Parliamentary Service in support of the clerners demand for $15 is not met, in full, then I would like to challenge the parliamentary opposition parties, Labour, Greens, NZF, Mana to go on strike for one week. During which time they will donate their wages to the Spotless workers to stay at home as well.
Will they do it?
Or, is all the expressed concern for the low paid by these opposition MPs just hot air?
Thanks for this Jenny. Yes, I hope that the opposition parties do take some protest action on this issue.
However, isn’t it now against the law to go out on strike in support of workers in a different occupation? Or does the law relate to those in a different workplace, and it is within the law to protest for other workers in your workplace?
However, isn’t it now against the law to go out on strike in support of workers in a different occupation?
Carol
In answer to your question Carol. Yes it is. But I don’t think this prohibition applies to parliamentarians. And even if it did, I don’t think it is likely we would see the police and the courts try to enforce it. They would look like even bigger wallies than when they raided Kim Dotcom, or Tama Iti.
On a more serious note. Parliamentarians rather than being regarded as workers, (albeit in another occupation), could be more accurately called their own boss and so are free to do as they please. If they called their stay-away a protest and not a strike, then quite likely it would not be illegal.
Labour did push up the minimum wage enormously when they were in power. But in our current political economy, that minimum wage quickly falls behind, and is also irrelevant for those who become unemployed.
Oh, that’s right… we only pretend that WFF is part of the tax system when we want to talk about tax credits to argue tax isn’t high on low earners when Labour are in power… It’s part of the welfare system when National are in power… sorry Draco – I didn’t keep up with the fantasy world of pretending we can tax our way to a fair society.
Oh, of course… it rebates the tax burden because …. low wage earners are taxed too heavily… yeah – slice and dice the BS any way you want Draco – it’s a tax adjustment/it’s welfare… – it’s a breeders tax reduction whichever way you look at it.
If they weren’t paid so little to begin with then we wouldn’t have to cut the taxes that they pay so that they could afford to raise their families. That is the heart of capitalism – paying many SFA to work hard so that the few can live in luxury and not have to work at all.
Right, so your glorious socialist party that identified people were paid too little played with the tax system to be popular enough to win another election so that it could …. play some more with the tax system.
Yes, this would be excellent!
Would speak volumes if opposition party members took this approach.
“Walking their talk in pictures” (which speak a thousand words).
Thanks for that Blue. Here are two stories from Common Dreams that could have just as easily been written about how our scandalously low paid parliamentary cleaners are treated.
Houston is “Millionaire City,” after all, having added more millionaires to its population than any other city in the US for two years running. These janitors sanitize the bathrooms and workspaces, empty the trash, and vacuum the floors of some of the largest and most powerful corporations in the world: JPMorganChase, Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron, Wells Fargo, KBR and Marathon Oil to name a few. They do their work in the best-performing commercial real estate market in the US in terms of demand. Many in this predominantly female workforce literally have to run to cleanmore than 100 toilets in five hours each night…..
Here’s to the Houston Janitors Common Dreams
…..“It’s clear that our country still doesn’t value the work of service workers. We have to fight harder to make sure that the people who are cleaning the buildings, taking care of the elderly, teaching our kids—all the different kinds of service work—that those folks are coming to the forefront and that people understand and hear their stories,” she said. “And we need to be up front about income inequality. I don’t think people want to accept that people earn $9,000 a year cleaning the offices of billionaires.”
Here’s to the Houston Janitors Common Dreams
It was a slow and torturous death, my American dream. And for millions of others, I am guessing it is the same. Nothing this current round of politicos is planning to do can restore it……
…….No matter whether a Republican like Nixon, Ford, Reagan or Bush — either one — or Democrats like Carter, Clinton, or Obama, the real chances were always next to none that I would actually “make it” and also live a life of purpose I so desperately wanted.
Dead Woman Working Common Dreams
My dreams weren’t outrageous and of great wealth. No, my dreams were of a comfortable home, food on the table, children, a meaningful job, and perhaps the “freedom from want” signaled by not being terrified that I wouldn’t make it to my next paycheck. I wanted to pay the bills without fretting. I wanted an occasional vacation from work. And I looked forward to a little time in retirement with enough health left to spend with my husband, kids and grandkids before leaving this earth. Now I am so tired in my late 50s of the struggle and the futility of trying to be heard, that I am angry beyond belief.
Nothing in my dream was tied to massive wealth or domination over other people. But that killer instinct certainly is present in many people I know. That’s the instinct I apparently lack – the need to be rich and control others even if it means allowing those many others to suffer and die for my personal achievement.
My real situation is like millions of other people in America. I’ve worked hard – very hard. Vacations were almost non-existent as I either needed to use that time for sick leave when I needed to for children, my husband, or myself or I “banked” the time knowing the next financial storm would come. Retirement security? Come on.
I particularly liked the “Dead Woman Working” article:
“Nothing in my dream was tied to massive wealth or domination over other people. But that killer instinct certainly is present in many people I know. That’s the instinct I apparently lack – the need to be rich and control others even if it means allowing those many others to suffer and die for my personal achievement.”
I didn’t think it was possible to cram so many neo-godwin’s law (comparisons to totalitarian communist states) infringements into such a small space.
However, her final comment is relevant, and who here hasn’t thunk it?
…As with Bo in China, Cunliffe has launched a serious challenge to the prevailing ideology of his party’s political wing. Does he seriously believe the nostrums in his three speeches or has he cynically “gone red” to build votes within the party at large. And will his colleagues succeed in burying him? The ABC club can’t place Cunliffe under house arrest. They might just have to engage instead.
Ewww…. so unsubtle, Ms O’Sullivan…. The right must truly fear Cunliffe, meanwhile trying to keep Labour in-fighting front-and-centre.
However, I did smirk a little at the sideswipe at Nikki Kaye:
The general rule of politics is to “breathe through your nose” when beginning a parliamentary career; pay endless obeisance to the leader (this is usually achieved by repeating the leader’s name at every opportunity as, for instance, does Auckland Central MP Nikki Kaye in her Facebook announcements detailing the latest event where she has been the PM’s handbag in New Zealand’s commercial capital) but not complacent to the point of being brain dead by the time you are considered for a senior role.
And that speaks more of politboro politics than Cunliffe’s alleged independence of thought.
“It’s a very full schedule we’ll be having a range of meetings with various speakers and senators. We’re meeting with a thinktank, we’re meeting with Mike Moore who is our ambassador over there.
It is possible that FOS is astute to enough to subtley indicate that the “Think Tanks” which are blatantly not what most simpletons want to believe, are in fact little more than brain (dead)washing?
I thought the only person wanting to destroy Assange was Assange…..
You “thought”? Here’s what you need to do, pronto…
1.) WATCH the video.
2.) READ something about the case. (Something serious, that is. Paul Thomas in the Herald is not serious. The Grauniad and the BBC, from which you draw your opinions, are about as serious and independent as Pravda and Tass.
Ooh, a 2 year old msnbc report and an interview with Ellsberg.
Ellsberg is a serious historic figure. His leaks of the Pentagon papers went all the way to the Supreme Court and resulted in rulings that clarified that journalists who hace recieved classified material are protected by the first amendment when they publish them, you’ll note in that report that officials were saying that charges were not imminent. Guess why that is? Hint, I’ve already told you in this paragraph.
Also relevant is that WL has never published anything as secret as what Ellsberg leaked, or what the NYT or the WaPo have published.
Two years on, and the investigation Holder mentions in that report has still not laid any charges. No charges = no grounds for extradition.
And to forestall any bleating about the UK–> Sweden extradition; Sweden lays charges much later in the investigation the the UK or the US does. If Assange was accused of rape and sexual offences in either the uS or the iK, or here, he would already be charged.
Now you dismissed the gaurdian Edit I linked to yesterday in a laughable manner, simply asserting that it could have been written by the Foreign Office.
Yet two wrongs do not make a right. Just as Ecuador is wrong to pretend that Mr Assange is a refugee, so Britain is wrong to threaten to enter Ecuador’s London embassy. The Foreign Office may have been factually entitled to remind Ecuador this week that a 1987 act allows it, if permissible under international law, to enter the premises. But the reminder is more trouble than it is worth, and risks being massively counterproductive to this country’s interests in places where fewer scruples apply. The threat was a mistake, allowing Ecuador to shift the argument away from the Swedish criminal charges. Our diplomats in hostile or failing states would be put at unacceptable risk if this threat were carried out.
I’m sure the foreign office would write that. Yup, aha. I don’t think you even read the editorial.
I trust you can either argue against the editorials content yourself, or link to someone serious who can do so. It raises some inteesting points that are relevant today, rather than 2 years ago.
Particularly, the point that if Assange goes to Sweden, international law gives him more protection than he has if he stays in the UK. this is because “both Sweden and the UK would have to sign off on any extradition application” from the US. An application that hasn’t been made yet because no charges have been laid in the US.
So have at it, be serious. Address these points.
Or wriggle around and launch ad homs like a fan boy. Your choice.
Have at it, should be a piece of cake, seeing you’ve read so much and all.
I’ve posted a lot on this topic already, and I’ve linked to many reputable articles and talks by people who know what they’re talking about, rather than poorly informed hacks and out and out propagandists like David Aaronovitch. And now, hilariously, someone who says Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky engage in rhetoric, wants me to engage in stupid trench warfare with him.
Sorry, my friend, your approach is frivolous—rather than argue your case, you’ve tried to belittle me by calling me a “fan boy” on at least two occasions today, but then you’ve also virtually dismissed Ellsberg and Chomsky, so I’m in good company.
At some point can everyone stop these threads. They say the same thing everyday and noone gets any further but they fill up Open Mike so noone can talk about anything else without scrolling down for ages.
I get it Morrissey Assange is a saint – I get it pretty much everyone else he should front the investigation without danger of being extradited to the US.
No, I have never claimed that. He is a man, albeit a very brave man who has dared to tell the truth at a time when that is an extremely dangerous choice.
And he is also a man who obviously is not above temptation. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is a rapist, of course.
The John Banks Trophy for…
DUM QUOTE OF THE WEEK
Award No. 1: for week ending 17/08/2012
This week’s winner—and the inaugural holder of the John Banks Trophy—is the awesome Te Reo Putake. In a field crowded with the uninformed, the cynical, the craven, and the plain stupid, our friend nudged ahead of close rivals Weka, Pascal’s Bookie, and the indefatigable yet ill-informed McFlock with this effort for the ages, posted late at night, quite possibly under the influence of a mind=bending substance…
“What is so special about Assange that Sweden should change its laws for him?”
Te Reo Putake, Open Mike, 17/08/2012
His inanity was, of course, almost immediately seized on and corrected by the superior RedLogix and Colonial Viper; their contributions serve to highlight and immortalize our friend’s achievement.
looks like Assange just took money where he could and “weak”idiots like Smith and Jemima Khan were soft touches.
Once again, whether deliberately or not, you’ve missed the point spectacularly. Smith is weak not because he has paid money to help a dissenter, but because he lacks the toughness of character, the fortitude, to confront an ignorant bully like David Aaronovitch.
For a guy who didn’t think twice about putting a bullet into the back of some poor bastards head, Assange is sure a whiner……..
What on earth are you talking about? Is this another government-sponsored fantasy now?
What on earth are you talking about? Is this another government-sponsored fantasy now?
Interestingly enough, I just this afternoon, was reading a discussion about Assange/Ecuador on an American site, and someone came and answered the (reasonable) question ‘why don’t Sweden say they are not going to extradite Assange to the USA’?
This person’s answer “Well, if he’s found to have murdered someone in the US, they may have to”…
First, the person did not say “found to be suspected of having murdered’ – which I find interesting in itself, but second and more important – is there such an allegation coming up?
I wouldn’t read too much into that V, it sounds like a hypothetical to explain why the demands that Sweden promise he won’t be extradited to the US won’t fly.
The problem is that they have an extradition treaty with the US. Given that fact, they can’t make that promise. If the US charge him with something, (and given the passing of time it looks like they ahving problems doing so), then Sweden will be legally obligated to consider an extradition request.
The demand to ‘promise not to extradite’, is a demand that Sweden abandon it’s treaty with the US.
If the US charge him with something, (and given the passing of time it looks like they ahving problems doing so)
This conclusion is complicated by the fact that a Grand Jury may have been formed to consider charges against Assange, but due to secrecy rules we would never know about their deliberations, or even that a Grand Jury has been called.
Further, rule 6e, 4) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure allows for a criminal indictment to be sealed until a suspect was in direct custody. In other words, the US may have already charged Assange – but are keeping the indictment secret.
Yes the US would have to make the details available to the Swedish authorities at a future time.
So the key is that those US indictments may already exist. If they do exist, they have been formalised with the intent of seeking Assange’s extradition. But because they are secret, Assange has no way of using their existence, in his defence against extradition to Sweden.
If the indictments exist, then it doesn’t matter if he is Sweden or the UK. If he is in the UK, the US will ask the Brits, if he is in Sweden, they will ask the Swede’s. the fact that the US hasn’t asked anyone suggests that they haven’t been able to come up with an indictment. Unless you have another explanation?
The only relevant point is that if he is in Seden via extradition from the UK, then both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to a US extradition.
The video is shocking, I agree. But, we are talking about Assange the person, he gave up the mantle of “freedom fighter” when his warped personality got the better of him.
we are talking about Assange the person, he gave up the mantle of “freedom fighter” when his warped personality got the better of him.
No doubt you now condemn Martin Luther King, who was a tireless womanizer. There is evidence that he was a rapist too—as much as there is against Assange.
thank you my friend, but I hardly imagine you really find “tiresome” too insulting and it’s a pretty mellow “personal attack” if it can even be called that. I admit I did try to be funny – 🙁 my bad
Please don’t mention Julian Assange, who is a champion of democracy, in the same sentence as that disgusting, corrupt champion of dictatorships and mass bombing.
Actually, the fact that you have done so tells a lot about just how ignorant and non-serious you are.
if i were to assume the very best possible interpretation of your comment RL I’d say it was spawned by such awe of Assange’s professional ‘achievements’ that you have misplaced your sense of right and wrong
if i were to assume the worst – that you have not only prejudged the rape accusation as a fabrication but also that Assange should be admired for his treatment of women – then I’d have to say you you have no sense of right and wrong
that you have not only prejudged the rape accusation as a fabrication but also that Assange should be admired for his treatment of women
Ah … only it’s not a ‘rape’ accusation. It’s something else. The women involved invited Assange into their beds.
At the same time the Swedes have these relatively laws around regulating what adults can and cannot do in their beds …. and they’ve already had one significant 5 week period where Assange stayed in the country, was interviewed and the proceedings apparently dropped. He was then given permission to leave the country.
Subsequent events however cast a great deal of doubt on whether the real motives involved in re-opening and pursuing the case. Given that reality all that is required is for the Swedes to get on a plane to the UK, interview their man, decide whether to lay a charge or not, and make a simple, cost-free, declaration that if he returns to Sweden to face a Court (in a timely fashion) … that he will not be subject to other unrelated actions.
Then the desired legal process can proceed in the normal fashion.
So you think it’s a trumped up allegation to get him back to Sweden so that he can be tried and subsequently extradited to the US?
Does your conviction also mean that you have decided the women making the allegations are both liars, and that a Swedish court won’t give him a fair trial?
Does your view also give you the right to call the people who are asking for him to face up to those allegations “small minded, sneering and envious” ?
Although I’m rather bored with this debate, the question is whether the consent to have sex ended? When exactly did one of them or both fall asleep and how long was that for? “You better not have aids,” isn’t exactly a statement that clarifies the situation.
In Assange’s mind, he would have thought; ‘I don’t have aids, this feels good, everything is OK’. In the complainants mind, it could have been translated as; ‘He’s not wearing a condom and probably has aids, get the fuck off me you pervert’.
She didn’t say stop or get off me though, so the question as to whether the consent to have further sex is not answered, and the speculation on blogs about such things is rather pointless. Only a court of law can answer the question to an adequate degree.
I don’t think Assange should risk extradition to the US where he possibly faces the death penalty for the alleged crimes surrounding Wikileaks. I do think he should stand trial for the alleged crimes in Sweden. Unfortunately these are not mutually distinguishable and until they are, which depends mainly on a decision by the US, we’re at an impasse.
RedLogix pointed out what you and some others choose to turn a blind eye to: that an enraged U.S. government is conspiring to destroy a whistle-blower by using two women to file a wild and ludicrous sexual allegation. You wouldn’t know, of course, but that’s an old KGB procedure. In your mind, to point that out is “misplacing a sense of right and wrong”, apparently.
Could I ask you to have a look at this and then see who has misplaced a sense of right and wrong?….
“and these small minds sneer at him because he had sex.”
Look, now we have our own painter on the roof story! Because as we all know, it’s completely possible to tell whether something was rape from the other side of the globe 🙄
Also, that’s two clear examples in this thread where the wellbeing of women is expendable according to leftwing men.
It’s not proven to be rape yet… There is no question that they had sex. You are guilty of your own accusation that it’s not possible to tell if it’s rape or not from the other side of the world.
Please stop inferring that all people who defend Assange are supporting rape culture weka, and that isolated opinion defines what all men who comment here think. It’s insulting!
It’s not proven to be rape yet… There is no question that they had sex. You are guilty of your own accusation that it’s not possible to tell if it’s rape or not from the other side of the world.
I have no idea what happened Jackal, that is the point. I’m not saying that Assange raped those women. I’m saying that the complainants’ account fits the definition of rape. Other people are saying it doesn’t. We’re not arguing about whether Assange is a rapist, we’re arguing about what rape is, and who gets to define it.
Anyone who says that rape didn’t happen is pre-empting the justice system, which is meant to afford justice to victims.
Now, just to be clear, because apparently this is a bit subtle for some people, my last sentence does not read “Assange is a rapist”. Please read it carefully and think about what I have just said.
Please stop inferring that all people who defend Assange are supporting rape culture weka, and that isolated opinion defines what all men who comment here think. It’s insulting!
Well the difficulty for me Jackal is that there are a number of regular commenters in the ongoing conversations about Assange on TS who DO use mis-arguments about rape and promote rape myths to support their politic agenda. Nowhere have I said that all people who support Assange support rape culture. In fact the opposite. If you can’t see that then you really are not understanding my argument at all. This surprises me, because you seem an intelligent person otherwise.
Honestly, I think you are reading many things into my comments that simply aren’t there. I’ve been very specific about what I think supports rape culture in this debate. Morrissey’s insistance that rape didn’t happen. RedLogix calling rape sex. The rape myths eg that once a woman has sex with someone once she consents to all other sexual activity. CV’s misusing concepts of consent. Prism’s ideas that rape is only extreme physical sexual violence. Those are all the things that support rape culture, NOT the fact that they side with Assange. Do you get what I am saying now?
I’m really happy to keep discussing this with you but would appreciate if you could be more specific about my points and check things out rather than making statements about what I am implying.
Um, unless I managed to miss something Weka, that’s you pretending to know what actually went on.
Edit: Just read your reponse above Weka, and would can’t say I read the quote any other way, perhaps I missed a reference or comment in another post?
The Assange situation is most likely nothing what anyone who has posted or read on either side of anything to do with WL’s, or other events surrounding Assange, and taking a position on either side of it categorically, means that people are easily fooled, because they think in absolutes!
Did he do it , did he not, was he really in charge of WL’s, was it a front etc….
See the energy the internet sucks out of people…put that into something physical, and those on this site might actually make a real difference..
One of the complainants says that Assange had sex with her while she was asleep (ie he put his penis inside her vagina while she was unconscious). That is an illegal act of rape (unless she gave him permission beforehand). I’m not saying that Assange did that. I’m saying that IF he did that, then that’s rape.
When someone describes that act as sex, they’re wrong. The law states that it is rape.
As far as I can tell, RL thinks the act of a man putting his penis inside a woman while she is unconscious is sex. He’s wrong.
A person does not consent to sexual activity if the activity occurs while he or she is asleep or unconscious.
We’re not arguing about whether Assange is a rapist, we’re arguing about what rape is, and who gets to define it.
? Much of the debate has revolved around whether Assange is guilty of rape or not. In fact labeling it rape at this stage shows you have already made up your mind. I think most people have a fair understanding of what rape is, which is defined by various laws in different countries.
Nowhere have I said that all people who support Assange support rape culture. In fact the opposite.
I must have misunderstood this then:
Here on TS, where women are deemed expendable.
and
That’s two clear examples in this thread where the wellbeing of women is expendable according to leftwing men.
This could be interpreted as: “People who defend Assange think it’s OK to rape women, and because some people are defending Assange on the Standard, all leftwing men support rape culture”. Can you not see why I object to such generalizations?
This is an important point because you run the risk of alienating people and turning them against your cause, even though your cause is justified. Reducing rape culture (which some people have argued doesn’t exist) is a fundamental step in creating a more equal and safe society… Especially for woman.
Rape culture is pretty well defined, and although some of the comments here are borderline, categorically saying they support rape culture would to some degree depend on your opinion about what happened between Assange and the complainants.
Honestly, I think you are reading many things into my comments that simply aren’t there. I’ve been very specific about what I think supports rape culture in this debate.
I understand your points of view, but very much doubt that any of the people you’ve named because you disagree with their comments support rape culture. Your accusations that they do is somewhat detrimental to your cause, and therefore I think you’ve not been as careful as you believe in choosing what comments to rally against.
weka, Assange should certainly face up to Swedish criminal investigators IMO. I presume he is innocent, but a criminal investigation has been started and he needs to participate in that to either clear his name or be found guilty once and for all. But I also back RL’s statement:
Given that reality all that is required is for the Swedes to get on a plane to the UK, interview their man, decide whether to lay a charge or not, and make a simple, cost-free, declaration that if he returns to Sweden to face a Court (in a timely fashion) … that he will not be subject to other unrelated actions.
Assange has also offered to do the interview by videolink – completely standard procedure in the modern day – and from there Swedish investigators can either charge him, or follow up with him in person. All that could be done TODAY.
IMO the women complainants are being used as pawns by the major governments and their complaints unnecesarily held in limbo by the authorities – you should be angry at that. The criminal investigators have had multiple opportunities to progress their complaints by questioning Assange, but they haven’t – I suppose on the orders of their superiors/political sponsors.
Sure CV. But in my world it’s conceivable that Assange sexually assaulted those women AND those women are being used by political powers.
Further, I don’t consider Assange’s personal wellbeing more important than the women in the case, no matter how big a hero he is to the left.
And, I don’t consider wikileaks to be a more important issue for humanity than rape culture.
Whenever the left puts Assange and/or wikileaks and/or the issue of political interference ahead of the complainants, women’s experience of rape, or the politics of rape*, I sigh and think here we go again. As I’ve said, this is not new to women on the left. It happens alot and until men on the left understand this enough to change culturally there is always a severe limit in their solidarity with women.
* let me put that another way: whenever the left undermines the complainants, women’s experience of rape, or the politics of rape, and they do so for another political purpose eg saving the butt of a famous well-off white man, or resisting US imperialism, or whatever, they engage in the very same behaviour they are fighting against, and so we all lose.
There is nothing wrong with you wanting to save Assange, or wanting to fight US imperialism. I’m saying you don’t have to do it at the expense of women. I think some men on the left struggle to even understand what I am talking about, but others are well aware of the dynamic and just don’t give a shit (women are expendable after all).
I’m not sure where you sit in all that, you seem to understand, but still be playing the game albeit much more lightly than Morrissey or RL.
Red Logix
It is so pleasant for people to cut others down, I don’t see it as being tall poppy syndrome but just a desire to carp and pass judgment. Think Bill Clinton, think Helen Clark’s signed auction item – any way to chip away from them.
Look at the covers of women’s magazines in supermarkets. They are quite expensive but stay in circulation as they reveal all, and often just about do in their sneak photos on the covers. The people who become celebrities have searchlights and moral potshots lobbed at them, no overlooking any fault, despite what noble or ground-breaking improvement they are trying to achieve. I’m not including Strauss Kahen? in this as he seems to just have been a well paid jerk.
No law change would be required mate. Just an assurance that Swedish authorities aren’t going to extradite Assange on completely unrelated and unannounced matters.
Such an assurance might satisfy you, CV, but clearly it won’t satisfy Assange. We already know that Sweden won’t extradite if the death penalty is a possibility, so we are left with a cowardly criminal* hiding for no good reason.
*Criminal in the sense that he has broken UK law by skipping out on his bail. And ripping off his mates in the process. Like you, I believe he should answer and defend the Swedish charges, so I make no assumptions about the criminality there. Though his sexual behaviour is obviously appalling anyway.
“Just an assurance that Swedish authorities aren’t going to extradite Assange on completely unrelated and unannounced matters.”
Ecuador has said it’s willing to co-operate on that basis.
Ecuador was willing to co-operate with the British and Swedish authorities over the matter of Assange’s extradition to Sweden. “In the negotiations with the FCO, Ecuador has been proposing that we would be prepared to accept an undertaking from the UK and Sweden that, once Julian Assange has faced the Swedish investigation, he will not be extradited to a third country: specifically the US. That might be a way out of it and Ecuador has always said it does not want to interfere with the Swedish judicial process; we could facilitate it.”
Assange has probably realised he’s a bit trapped with this move. I agree it’s time for diplomats to do the diplomatic thing and if that’s what it takes to end the stand-off, Sweden should give an explicit, rather than implied assurance and get this sorted.
The John Banks Trophy holder writes wittily: “Is it diificult to type with your penises lads? Or are they small enough to hit the keys first time every time?”
Considering he’s a Banksy winner, that was a really, really good one.
But I feel sure others will agree with me that he’s funnier when he’s pretending to be serious.
You know, I’d probably know more, and possibly even care more, about the Assange case if these threads didn’t keep degenerating into what amounts to little more than flame wars.
I’d probably know more, and possibly even care more, about the Assange case if these threads didn’t keep degenerating into what amounts to little more than flame wars.
No, you’d know more and—unless you’re a moral imbecile—you’ll care more about the Assange case if you do some serious and sustained reading about it.
Serioulsy, that’s serious? Rhetoric. Marginally effective rhetoric I suppose, if what you are after is something to stir the blood of that already convinced, but the analysis is non existent, and the description of Wikileaks is so shallow I’d expect ot see it in a broadsheet article ‘From the Left’.
Neither of those pieces, which I’ve seen before, really add much to the actual issues of the moment.
What I’m looking for is analysis and reporting. Not rhetoric, arguments.
Thinngs that just outline how bad the US is, or what Wikileaks was doing, and to whom, and whether or not we should support wikileaks, don’t add much to a debate about the actual state of play today.
Just because an individual has cred, that doesn’t make everything they say ‘serious’.
What I’m looking for is analysis and reporting. Not rhetoric, arguments.
Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky are not analytical? That’s rich coming from someone who’s just recycled some windy Grauniad propaganda and even praised it as “good”.
…don’t add much to a debate about the actual state of play today.
Nonsense. Their analyses touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen in London over the last two days. The fact you choose to participate in the black propaganda campaign waged by the likes of William Hague means your protestations that you are “looking for analysis” are not serious.
Just because an individual has cred, that doesn’t make everything they [sic] say ‘serious’.
On the other hand, you are prepared to accept as “serious” the allegations of individuals and organizations with NO “cred”, such as the inveterate liars and governments that are trying to destroy Assange.
I don’t believe you’ve read those pieces before, either.
Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky are not analytical? That’s rich coming from someone who’s just recycled some windy Grauniad propaganda and even praised it as “good”.
they are sometimes. those pieces didn’t have any analysis of the recent events that I could see. Why don’t you tell me how the Ellsberg piece sheds light on the extradition issues.
And it seems to me that your basis for judging the seriuosness of who is saying it is based on two things. Whether they support your position, and whether you like the author. Prove me wrong, talk about content, discuss the issue.
Nonsense. Their analyses touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen in London over the last two days. The fact you choose to participate in the black propaganda campaign waged by the likes of William Hague means your protestations that you are “looking for analysis” are not serious.
More tiresome nonsense. Explain to me how those pieces touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen. And what black propaganda campaign am I engaged in? Honestly, because I disagree with you I’m a lackey of Hague/ Grow up Morrisey, cut the bluster and start on the actual issues. Address the content of the gaurdian edit, instead of just rolling our eyes at the mention of the word Gaurdian.
On the other hand, you are prepared to accept as “serious” the allegations of individuals and organizations with NO “cred”, such as the inveterate liars and governments that are trying to destroy Assange.
More baseless smearing. What allegations have I accepted? Again, show me that your views are driven by more than Assange good, everyone who doesn’t saint Assange, utterly evil and not worthy of listening to.
Address some of the actual arguments. All you’ve done so far is attack the sources. Weak overhead is failing.
yes Pb. I read both the links supplied by morrissey at least twice because I was searching for something to do with what was being discussed – they almost seemed irrelevant, in that the background issues they raised aren’t even in contention as far as I can tell on this forum.
the prof might mark that effort down a bit I think.
The YPP, and a similar Youth Payment for teens aged 16 and 17 without children, will still add up to the same as the current benefits, ranging from $136 a week for a young parent living with their own parents up to $293 for sole parents aged 18 and over.
But under the new system only $50 will be paid in cash.
Rent or board will be paid directly to landlords or parents, and the rest will be loaded onto a payment card to buy “food and groceries at approved stores”.
Unfortunately no one has yet told any of the teenage mums at Mt Eden’s Eden Campus teen parent unit what the approved stores are or what exactly they can spend their cards on.
They have also yet to receive their cards.
It seems that things, necessary to some teens like tranpsort, will need to come out of the cash payment. There also is supposed to be a local community-based youth service provider that will replace case managers. But many of these “providers” won’t be in place for a few months, leaving many teens with no-one to turn to when there are problems.
Work and Income head Debbie Power said young beneficiaries would not move onto the payment card until they met their new service providers “over the coming months”.
She said the payment card could be spent only at food stores.
She said the payment card could be spent only at food stores.
Being the good business people most food store owners are, I’m sure the range of goods they stock will increase reasonably quickly.
I should have put a little /sarc tag on that one, but anyways, nearly there, how about….
Being the good business people most food store owners are, I’m sure the range of goods they stock will increase reasonably quickly, and priced at a premium for these customers with restricted access to alternatives markets.
And since there are no jobs out there at the low end, its actually designed to permanently suppress already low wages by ensuring a massive oversupply of labour.
Carol
When I was doing my social policy papers I came across a strong distaste for a condition that welfare was supposed to encourage called ‘learned helplessness’. It seems to me that handing out pocket money to youthful parents is not helping them to learn mature financial handling if they need it. I have heard interviews with numbers of young mothers who have been very serious about their position and acquiring skills that would enable them to cope and live better.
And this food thing reminds me of the diminishing situation for beneficiaries personal esteem where Shipleys National govt had it set up so that supermarket checkout staff vetted their choice of groceries.
Like Sir Paul, I am concerned about the current quality of our relations with each other, and fear that these have gone awry. As he remarked, ‘I happen not to believe in the trickle-down theory. I fear we are in the process of creating a stratified society.’
Here, he was prescient. Over the past four years, according to a recent report, the median weekly income for European families increased to $580, while that for Maori families fell to $460, and for Pacific families to $390. Not just a stratified society, but one ranked by ethnic background.
She outlines some European and Maori traditional cultural values and ideas, which are a mix of complementary and conflicting ideals (the hierarchic, fragmenting and marginalising order of things, and the more egalitarian and inclusive order of relations, following Foucault).
Genuine differences do exist between Maori and Pakeha, men and women, Left and Right – but so do networks of interlocking relations, shared values and mutual dependency. Rather than excluding the middle ground, the challenge is to get the networks of relations across it working in ways that are mutually positive and creative, not hostile and destructive. This, I think, is the task that Sir Paul set himself, and why his life mattered so much to us all.
….
Who knows how philosophical shifts occur? When Rogernomics was launched in the mid 1980s,…
As selves were split from others and nature from culture, the idea of the autonomous individual pursuing his or her own rights and interests without constraint, was reframed as a virtue. Because New Zealand has few checks and balances, it was possible for a relatively small number of people to drive this idea beyond its reasonable limits, as Sir Paul argued at the time.
…
As a result, over the past thirty years much of our collective life has been re-shaped in the image of the market, with citizens defined as cost-benefit calculating customers, required to buy and sell even the most basic of their needs – education, health, personal safety and security in old age, for example. As in the case of many finance companies, values such as truth, justice, integrity and generosity have been set aside.
As a template for running for a small, intimate society, this kind of logic is remarkably ruthless. It is also non-adaptive, cutting across our key advantages as a species. As Homo sapiens, we are social animals, able to think and communicate through language, forge strategies and combine our efforts to achieve them. Our offspring have a long, vulnerable period while they learn these capacities, during which they have to be protected.
Dame Anne argues, with reference to statistics and current issues in education and politics, that the way forward is to draw on some cooperative traditions from Europe (the order of relations) and Maori (and Asian) approaches to community in order to develop some innovative ways of responding to current problems.
In this context, old, arrogant, unilateral habits of decision-making are bound to backfire – whether over charter schools or class sizes. Collaborative processes for forging strategies and policies, such as those used by the Land and Water Forum, for example, are much more likely to succeed. With so many lives and the future of the country at stake, surely such an experiment is worthwhile.
…
To give another example, one dear to Sir Paul’s heart, inter-ethnic relations on the old hierarchical, bi-polar model are also changing. Rather than seeing Maori and Pakeha, or Maori and Pasifika, or for that matter, Kiwi and Asian as binary opposites with some kind of Berlin Wall between them, these are increasingly understood as linked across the middle ground – the pae.
In a philosophy based on whakapapa, for example, there is no need to regard oneself as purely Maori, or Pakeha, or Pasifika, or Asian. Rather, an individual is made up of all the relationships in which they participate, with their different taha or ‘sides’ turning from one network to another. One can see how readily such a person can adapt to the diverse, rapidly changing world in which we dwell
But it’s worth taking the time to read the whole lecture. But this idea of a network of relations and collaborative, non-hierarchical ways of working with diverse groups of people, is one close to my heart.
…an individual is made up of all the relationships in which they participate, with their different taha or ‘sides’ turning from one network to another
Rather than ‘network’, I tend to view this in terms of societies. What I mean by that is that it’s a nonsense to consider NZ as a society. No person belongs to a single society. We all are a part of numerous societies that often overlap and that are connected by various ‘degrees of separation’.
Once that is understood, then it becomes clear why our current mode of governance – remote authority seeking to legislate or educate or whatever, on a simplistic and mistaken idea of society as some monolithic or homogenous whole – results in an ever growing, unsatisfying morass that’s forever in need of ‘refinement’.
There is a dominant strain of values contained within the more powerful or dominant expression of culture in NZ (ie, once rooted in Christianity and now largely reduced to so called market values). And to the degree that your cultural identity departs from the mores that inform the governance of so-called ‘NZ society’, the greater the potential for that governance to be inimical, irrelevent or unjust (disempowering) from your cultural perspective.
It’s not in any way controversial to hold that societies need to be able to govern themselves. But the radical situation we find ourselves in whereby societies are rendered invisible by a false overarching construct that simply labels itself ‘society’ makes that simple and basic need impossible.
You create serfs by making people dependent upon the few and that’s exactly what’s happening in our society. The rich few are making everyone else dependent upon them – just as they did under feudalism. They’re just using laws instead of swords to enforce that dependency.
Now that I’ve read Dame Anne Salmond piece, I’d just say it’s a shame she doesn’t ‘call it’. Seems to me she is almost advocating horizontal or non-heirarchical forms of governance or organising, but can’t take the final necessary step of politically challenging the legitimacy of current heirarchical and centrist approaches.
And that leaves her trying to square a circle insofar as she’s advocating that current structures persist, but adopt different ways of functioning. I can’t see it myself. They are what they are, and have the influence they have, because of the way they function. And that way of functioning…that defines and maintains their existence… runs smack head-on into how she would rather things fuctioned.
A very sharp and useful mini-analysis, Bill, pointing to where Salmond falls short.
Yes, she falls short of taking the strong political position that her argument seems to be heading towards.
But some good conceptual background to leap from to take a totally new direction in politics.
Also, while she denounces binaries, there’s a bit of a catch-22 in that the polarities still function in society, relegating the least powerful terms to the bottom of the heap – Maori, low income etc. How do we get from here to a new relational position.
And I like your use of “societies” over networks. Networks are pretty one-dimensional and linear, and don’t really bring to the fore the dense interaction of multiple relationships that exist in and between societies.
How do we get from here to a new relational position?
Well, for a start I don’t think NZ as an entity moves to anything. But we are already members of numerous societies. And some of them present open spaces where new forms of governance can be trialed and developed. I’m not talking ‘big cheese’.
As an example, a ‘Coronation Hall’ near to me is in the throes of attracting community interest and establishing organisational structures for the community facilities it can make available. Traditionally the hall has been run by a typical old style committee and been fairly closed and distant from the community. But now there is an opportunity to introduce more participatory (non-heirarchical) modes of organising and managing. For the sake of argument, lets assume new ways are adopted and succesfully developed.
In and of itself it’s a ‘nothing’ in the scheme of things. But people will have been introduced to different and more empowering ways of going about things. And if and when those new ways become as habitual and natural to them as the old authoritarian and exclusive ways, then they will naturally introduce some of the facets of the ‘new’ and better ways to other things they are involved in…whether that be the local Pony Club or whatever…and then, hopefully, in time apply it to new business set ups (worker co-ops/collectives) or housing scenarios (housing collectives) .
In other words, over time and by osmosis, the ‘new’ ways could become the tradition. And the attraction or habit of appealing to or accepting the dictats of remote authority would wane and New Zealand become merely a name that designates a geographical area. And within that geographical area would exist a myriad of self governing, inter-related and highly democratic societies.
Also, while she denounces binaries, there’s a bit of a catch-22 in that the polarities still function in society, relegating the least powerful terms to the bottom of the heap – Maori, low income etc. How do we get from here to a new relational position.
Low income… people on benefits for instance could form networks (sorry that word still works best for me) amongst themselves and solidarity with others (low income workers, Maori, Pacifica etc). It’s those relationships that change things. There is a still a need to challenge via the binary opposition IMO, but when that’s the dominant activity and the dominant story, it undermines the Order of Relations that Salmond is talking about. This is why challenging govt is important, but ultimately it’s what communities do within themselves that will generate meaningful and long term change.
I’d hazard a guess she isn’t calling it because she doesn’t want to put her foot in her mouth, and because calling it immediately puts us into the binary opposition she is advocating against: old hierarchical model vs new non-hierarchical model.
I think that people engaging in the relational models she talks about will change the structures themselves (assuming the absence of force from those wishing the status quo, which is a big assumption).
It’s a superb piece of writing, one that bears rereading and time for thinking.
“In the past year, HNZ has sold 15 properties in the city worth more than $700,000, generating $12.8 million.
A spokeswoman said HNZ had sold the houses as part of its policy to look at getting rid of properties worth more than $700,000 so it could reinvest in cheaper housing.”
No space for state tenants in wealthy suburbs and last I knew John Key was stopping housing developments from going ahead – at least in his own electorate anyway.
That wouldn’t be so bad, it’s pretty oppressive living among those with money, if there was any real evidence that the monies gained from the sales of these properties was actually being used to build more,
As Glen Innes shows what ‘renewal’ is code word for in the Slippery National Government is to take 150 houses off of those most in need and only make provision to replace half of them,
As with all of National’s changes in the delivery of social programs ALL of this is done under the auspices of ‘doing better for’, or, ‘helping’ the poor when the reality would give every appearance of being the usual State House sell off to those who are most likely to vote National…
Bizarre news item re U.S. policy about-turn
National Radio news, Saturday 18 August 2012, 9 a.m.
Just heard on the news that the U.S. government has condemned the Russian government for the jailing of Pussy Riot. Something about “free speech” and “democracy”. I missed the rest of it because of the gales of laughter and hoots of derision from a couple of my skeptically minded friends.
Is what I heard correct? Has the United States started to support the cause of free speech and democracy?
Or is it still, as usual, support for free speech and democracy in other countries?
Around 40 protesters stood outside New York’s Russian consulate, wearing brightly colored clothing and masks and holding banners that read: “We are all hooligans.”
Six people were arrested. Among them was Rebekah Schiller, who was wearing a mask. In New York City, it is illegal for more than three people to wear masks without a permit.
7 billion of it year in year out, money that is, gets ripped by the likes of the people in the stuff article, who, having businesses already have the ability to make millions, but, through greed rip the tax system off big-time,
Its not just some Bene dipping a toe in the trough where that Bene should have had a finger in a different pool, this is systematic THEFT from us all, everyone who pays every week through PAYE is being ripped off by these monied thieves and although this particular little piece of organized theft against the State has been closed down there’s still 7 billion dollars of it going on out there right now,
So m’bwana Shearer bossmun, in between marveling at how the really poor still have the energy to fight each other over the Mango skinned crumbs off of your table perhaps you might like to consider a little Accountant homily where you make it quite obvious that EVERYONE wearing a suit JUST MIGHT BE AN ACCOUNTANT ripping off the tax system to the tune of 7 billion dollars a year,
I’m reliably informed that 8 of the first 50 DL’s have been cannibalised (temporarily at least) for parts to keep the rest going.
The Te Rapa workshop is swarming with Chinese techs trying to keep them going. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. There is nothing complicated about a diesel electric loco and they should have been delivered virtually perfect and reliable and a say a modern car from a top-end manufacturer.
Fran O’Sullivan’s piece is one of a many pieces of evidence that it is now a matter of “WHEN” rather than “IF” Cunliffe takes over the leadership.
The sheer stupidity of the briefing to Garner by the faction has shifted the frame in which Cunlffe is viewed. The trite personal shallow stuff that has been repeadly rolled out by most journalists has lost all of its currency. No journalist will want to be seen to be blindly relaying drivel from the faction.
The debate has shifted to genuine policy positioning. The re-assessment of the last 30 years of economic and social “conventional wisdom” was overdue. Thank you Cunliffe.
That the much younger Cunliffe is so much more grounded, skilled and experienced than Shearer has also been glaringly highlighted. Shearers’s gauche and weak handling of the recent issues contrasts dramatically with Cunliffe’s studied calmness and focus under heavy fire.
The “WHEN” for Cunliffe and the vast majority of the Labour Membership cannot be thwarted by the faction and the proposed rules. The membership must make the Caucus respect it’s wishes. Get your amendments to the proposed rules into HO now.
Here was me sailing along in the bubble thinking all was well and i got transported,rudely i might add, by the link on a comment over on CV’s post giving Blubber-boy a tickle,
I am not sure whether the Pigani comments on Blubber -boy’s blog where deliberately placed there by one of the J. Pigani’s or if Blubber-boy has simply co-opted Her onto it by dint of not having a original thought, other than those provoked by the meds,but, no matter, that particular J.Pigani seems to have found the perfect spiritual home to match Her particular intellect, enough said,
Time for a bit of light hearted brevity lest you all read the Blubber-boy blog and become despondent, what do you achieve by genetically mixing the genes of a Whale and a Pig,
The same old Bullshit of course what did you really expect, enlightenment???
*Here’s the gospel according to J.Pigani, the welfare system is un-affordable, AND, this will not be addressed in any way by focusing our minds upon the 7 billion dollars a year lost to the Government revenue from Tax Fraud,
Nor it would seem will this supposed unaffordibility of the welfare system be addressed by us focusing our minds upon the appox: 7 billion dollars further lost to the Governments revenue from ‘legal’ tax avoidance, so says J.Pagani in shades of trying to emulate Ruth Richardson,
This could start getting a little looooong here as i am going to directly quote J.Pagani from Blubber-boys blog, bear with me tho there is a point,
”The reason for Labour getting into Government is not to defend welfare-or anything else-against reform”,
”It’s so reform can be done our way-fairly-,and, in a way that produces a decent outcome that provides a fulfilling future for everyone”, unquote.
Now J.Pagani, one or both of them, claims that they won’t comment on The Standard because (a)the J.Pigani’s might receive some abusive replies, and (b), laughably claims that those who disagree with the Post authors get banned for life, (hey where the fucks my life ban),
In reply i have to do just that, spit a little abuse, Bullshit, Bullshit,absolute f**king Bullshit, to presuppose as one of the J.Pigani’s does that ‘welfare’ is the problem is shortsighted rubbish put forward in my opinion with deliberation by this particular J.Pigani,
There is in fact nothing wrong with the ‘welfare system’ it is the economic system adhered to by successive Governments both Labour and National which ensures that there WILL NOT be enough employment in the economy so as to employ all those available to work that is at fault,
The ‘welfare system’ is not at fault one little iota, J.Pigani simply suggests without actually saying so that large numbers of beneficiaries are ‘hiding out’ on benefits thus avoiding work,
The reality is that the UNAVAILABILITY of work is what makes the numbers of those dependent upon welfare and the number of those AVAILABLE to work has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of work available,
If the J.Pigani’s want to ‘reform’ the welfare system they should first ‘reform’ the economic system which fails to provide the required levels of employment, reforming the latter will negate the need to reform the former…
Desribes what Assange was actually up to. his strategy if you like. the leaks weren’t ends in and of themselves. It wasn’t about informing people as to what was going on, or at least, not just about that. The informing people was a welcome by-prosuct of the tactic od leaking secrets, and the leaking of secrets was a strategic move aimed at secrecy itself.
You should actually read this link Overhead. When the post first appeared Wikileaks linked to it repeatedly, saying that it nicely got some of what they were up to. the blogger followed up with more posts, all based on Assange’s essays, which I’m sure you’ve read.
– the well-reasoned academic piece from Salmond drawing on research, statistics and an in-depth examination of significant ideas and philosophical traditions.
– then the superficial reasoning of O’Sullivan’s op ed piece that is more propaganda than analysis – arguing by analogy and association, using loaded adjectives in order to smear Cunliffe with ulterior motives and a red scare tactic.
Thought this might be useful all things considered. Thanks McFlock for posting the link the other day.
128AAllowing sexual activity does not amount to consent in some circumstances
(1) A person does not consent to sexual activity just because he or she does not protest or offer physical resistance to the activity.
(2) A person does not consent to sexual activity if he or she allows the activity because of—
(a) force applied to him or her or some other person; or
(b) the threat (express or implied) of the application of force to him or her or some other person; or
(c) the fear of the application of force to him or her or some other person.
(3) A person does not consent to sexual activity if the activity occurs while he or she is asleep or unconscious.
(4) A person does not consent to sexual activity if the activity occurs while he or she is so affected by alcohol or some other drug that he or she cannot consent or refuse to consent to the activity.
(5) A person does not consent to sexual activity if the activity occurs while he or she is affected by an intellectual, mental, or physical condition or impairment of such a nature and degree that he or she cannot consent or refuse to consent to the activity.
(6) One person does not consent to sexual activity with another person if he or she allows the sexual activity because he or she is mistaken about who the other person is.
(7) A person does not consent to an act of sexual activity if he or she allows the act because he or she is mistaken about its nature and quality.
(8) This section does not limit the circumstances in which a person does not consent to sexual activity.
(9) For the purposes of this section,—
allows includes acquiesces in, submits to, participates in, and undertakes
sexual activity, in relation to a person, means—
(a) sexual connection with the person; or
(b) the doing on the person of an indecent act that, without the person’s consent, would be an indecent assault of the person.
Section 128A: substituted, on 20 May 2005, by section 7 of the Crimes Amendment Act 2005 (2005 No 41).
But it is interesting that if the alleged facts are true, then by NZ standard it’s rape. Not “sex”. Not “not as bad as war so it’s not rape”. Not “oh but he did such nice things so it’s not rape”. Not “you’re black propagandists for the US hegemony so it’s not rape”. Not even “you’re just after feminist brownie points so it’s not rape”.
If the alleged facts are true, it’s rape. And people here are being disingenuous when they minimise it.
I didn’t post that because of Assange, I posted it because there appear to be people here on TS who don’t understand what rape is. A legal definition is a good place to start, although of course it doesn’t define rape in and of itself.
You have to wonder don’t you at the intelligence,(lack of), inherent in the likes of Fran O’Sullivan who in today’s Herald tries to insult Labour’s David Cunliffe with the banner headline ”Cloth Cap Socialist”,
Round here the cloth cap is worn with honor, the ‘cloth cap Socialist’ is simply one that see’s the solution to the problems of economy as being easily addressed mostly through the simplest of solutions,
IF, Cunliffe is as O’Sullivan says a ‘cloth cap Socialist’ then He has my support,
PS: Fran the only reason we doff em, the cloth caps that is, is to get them outta the cross-fire as we Hoick a big one at you….
Interesting writing from O’Sullivan. She says that Shearer has had to stack his frontbench with lightweights unable to land hits on the Key Government, and she says that Cunliffe is damn capable – both professionally and in politics.
Do you think that O’Sullivan is trying to ‘do balanced journalism’, at one point She seems to be insinuating that Cunliffe is attempting to inflict a cunning charade upon the electorate by appearing to be ‘more left’ than He actually is,
Pity the Herald cannot find a truly ‘left’ journalist to provide ‘balance’ to the continuous stream of what gives every appearance of being produced from the mind of a schizophrenic that it presently fobs off on us all…
Yes, it’s curious on FOS’s part, that as well as disparaging him by associating a “cloth cap” with a “hidden agenda” to deviously seize power, but she also smears Cunliffe by comparing him with the Chinese politburo, and the disgraced Bo . Yet FOS has a recent record of talking up China as a great place to do business with, and seems to quite like the infamous Bo:
But as Kevin Lu wrote in a recent article in Foreign Policy magazine headlined “The Chongqing model worked”: “Bo Xilai might be a crook but he was actually pretty good at his job.”
Just like Bo, Cunliffe is trying to recreate a new left agenda to attract those who have been disadvantaged by the wealth gap.
Cunliffe has suggested big investment by the Government in industry, citing the NZ Steel plant of the Muldoon Government.
As with Bo in China, Cunliffe has launched a serious challenge to the prevailing ideology of his party’s political wing.
But former Commerce Minister Bo Xilai – who kicked off free trade negotiations between China and New Zealand in 2004 – won’t be present. Bo was sacked from the Politburo this year and faces disciplinary charges. His wife, Gu Kailai, did not contest murder charges this week.
But when Bo first talked up the FTA, China was still coming to grips with its entrance into the World Trade Organisation. Its growth has since rocketed. As the East Asia Forum recently emphasised, China is now the world’s largest exporter, largest importer, largest holder of foreign reserves and second-largest economy and is in a much more powerful position than was projected at the time of its WTO debut in 2001.
Air New Zealand’s annual report is due out by the end of August and the signs do not look good. Air NZ is just one company dealing with the general malaise of the airline industry. Jet fuel now accounts for 35 percent of airline industry operating costs compared to 15 percent a decade ago. Jet fuel closely maps the price of crude. Petroleum deliveries are at their lowest point since September 2008, with the weakest July demand since 2005 and yet Brent crude prices are still sitting above $US116 per barrel. Oil prices would not have to raise much higher to create a US$5.3billion loss in 2012. The future of the global aviation industry is in big trouble.
“Being the most innovative airline company does not necessarily make you the most profitable. Air New Zealand announced a 71 percent earning slump in February 2012. As part of it’s recovery plan the company announced it was cutting 441 jobs. The airline blamed a decrease in passenger numbers as well as as fuel costs NZ$173 million more than forecast. This is despite the airline enjoying “a solid performance from the domestic network including benefits from the Rugby World Cup and improved market share on the Tasman” according to Air New Zealand chairman, John Palmer.
The outgoing chief executive Rob Fyfe says the price of jet fuel has doubled over the last three years and due to the weak global economy it has been difficult to pass on the higher costs to passengers.The inflation adjusted average price of jet fuel was US$3.04 per gallon for the six months to December 31st. Going off jet fuel prices alone it is unlikely the airline will see much of a turn around in profitability for 2012. In the first six months of 2012 the average price barely moved, up US$0.04 to $US3.08.”
Actually, yes it does. Its called a ‘social contract’. The provision of community assets such as parks, sportsfields and libaries are provided in return for payment of rates and various other charges by the community.
Those who say ‘the world does not owe you a living’ completely disregard the social contract.
Not wanting to draw more fire, as an FYI, an exemplar of the complexity of dealing with laws in another country and language, and the complexity of dealing with human relationships…
On 18 November 2010, prosecutor Marianne Ny asked the local district court for a warrant for the arrest of Assange in order for him to be interviewed by the prosecutor. As he was now living in England, the court ordered him detained (häktad) in absentia. On appeal, the Svea Court of Appeal upheld the warrant on suspicion of olaga tvång (duress/unlawful coercion), and two cases of sexuellt ofredande, which has been variously translated as “sexual molestation”, “sexual assault”, “sexual misconduct”, “sexual annoyance”, “sexual unfreedom”, “sexual misdemeanour”, and “sexual harassment”. Wikipedia : Assange v Swedish Prosecution Authority
Again you argue from the charges back to the events. What Swedish laws say and means is more complex. You said yourself that you don’t speak Swedish. So here it is. For English speakers on the other side of the planet the actual charges have more nuance that the emphatic English language charges.
It also ignores the complex nature of gender politics in Sweden in which the sexual offence legislation being written. The prosecutor herself is of the opinion that a man/offender should be locked up first and questions asked later.
Brita Sundberg-Weitman, a Swedish lawyer, professor, retired judge and distinguished jurist, spoke of Sweden’s gender politics and the Assange case…..
“It is a fact that people like Marianne Ny and Claes Borgström have worked in cooperation on different issues in efforts to produce our new, more stringent sexual offence laws. It is a fact that Marianne Ny was one of the experts for the recent law reform committee which published a report in 2010 recommending even more harsh sexual offence legislation. It is a fact that Marianne Ny approved the contents of that report which concluded that, unlike the law of England and Wales, Swedish rape law is not based upon lack of consent and which specifically rejects any recommendation that Swedish law be amended to adopt the English law approach where rape is based on consent”
“…Ms Ny .. is known to have said that when a woman says she has been assaulted by a man, the man ought to be detained because it is not until he is in prison that the woman may have the peace to consider whether or not she has been mistreated. Ms Ny has stated that she believes that imprisoning the man has a positive effect, “even in cases where the perpetrator is prosecuted but not convicted”. It is also informative, in regards to the presumption of innocence, that she uses the term ’perpetrator’ rather than ’defendant’ or ’suspect’ in discussing criminal investigation in rape cases.” Swedish Gender Politics and the Assange case
I’m happy to leave the interpretation of Swedish law up to the Swedish courts.
I’m also happy with the concept that if he returns to Sweden, Assange should be detained in custody until the trial is completed. He is after all a repeated flight risk.
I’m also happy with the concept that the allegations against him are serious enough to be considered crimes here (as opposed to homosexuality, adultery, unprotected sex being illegal, etc).
If authorities replied “yes you may leave the country” then that’s permission. They certainly didn’t ask him to stay, did they. And, authorities were fully informed of Assange’s intentions to go. He didn’t leave the country hidden in a car boot did he?
Which is why the event should not be included in any assessment of his flight risk.
edit…man you should explain why you really have it in for this guy just so bad.
You can only give “permission” if you have the power to prevent something happening.
Assange was told by Swedish authorities that he was allowed to leave the country. If you like I can reword the sentence in the negative. Assange was told by Swedish authorities that there was no need for him to remain in Sweden.
Happier?
Regardless, given that Assange voluntarily stayed in Sweden for a full 2 weeks after investigations against him were reopened, then was told he was free to go, after which he left with the full knowledge of authorities, the event should not be counted against him as a flight risk.
Breaking his UK bail conditions certainly counts, but not that.
Assange was told by Swedish authorities that he was allowed to leave the country. If you like I can reword the sentence in the negative. Assange was told by Swedish authorities that there was no need for him to remain in Sweden.
Option 3: We can’t stop you leaving. And of course the Swedish prosecutors were trying to arrange another interview via the same lawyer who had asked if they could stop him leaving the country.
But the point is strictly whether he’s a “serial done it before flight from detention” or simply a “done it before flight from detention”. Either ay, if he goes back to Sweden I’m cool with him being detained while on trial, if only to stop him fleeing the justice system again.
If you are trying to work out if he’s a flight risk, then whether or not he had ‘permission’ is a bit beside the point.
The fact remains that he was under investigation, knew he was under investigation, and left the country and refused to return.
It’s certainly reasonable to assume from the fact that he didn’t return, that he left in order to avoid the investigation. Do you have another theory as to why he left sweden? If he did leave Sweden because of the investigation, then that is evidence for him being a flight risk. ‘Permission’ or not.
I agree with you all points except the last one. As the charges are written they do in fact constitute crimes here. No disagreement there. My point is that what is interpret as a sexual crime is harsher in Sweden and so a regular action that happens in the tumble of a sexual encounter can be written up in such damning terms that someone else would think “shit”.
So I guess my point is that :
Yes, as they are written the charges would also be a crime in NZ
BUT even though the charges sound so damning, the actions that would warrant such a charge in Sweden, may not do so here.
Of course, “sticking it in while she is asleep” sounds so serious (and it may well be if that is what happened) but given the state of the gender politics behind harsh Swedish laws its as Lord Cooke famously said, “Inlaw, context is everything” Lord Cooke of Thorndon.
The reason I am continuing to debate is the ridiculous assertions of Weka and the continued emphatic assertions that there is an equivalence between the Swedish charges and what we would be charged with here. There isn’t.
“My point is that what is interpret as a sexual crime is harsher in Sweden and so a regular action that happens in the tumble of a sexual encounter can be written up in such damning terms that someone else would think “shit”.”
I just thought that you must have mistyped, given that the allegations if true would constitute sexual assault and rape here and in the UK. Sweden – that’s what the Svea is for.
The charges in the EAW do not allow for discussion of whether Assange had mens rea (guilty intent) and whether he had a reasonable expectation that he had consent.
The charges, which appear damning, also hinge on such things as a definition of what constitutes “force” – what actions are “force” and what degree of “force” needs to be applied. Next time be careful when you part you partner’s legs because in Sweden the laws are are more strict about what constitutes force.
These are all things that will be discussed in court and not dealt with in the EAW.
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
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Negative yesterday, negative today. Negative all year, according to one departing reader telling me I’ve grown strident and predictable. Fair enough. If it’s any help, every time I go to write about a certain topic that begins with C and ends with arrrrs, I do brace myself and ask: Again? Are ...
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Inspirational: The Family of Man is a glorious hymn to human equality, but, more than that, it is a clarion call to human freedom. Because equality, unleavened by liberty, is a broken piano, an unstrung harp; upon which the songs of fraternity will never be played.“Somebody must have been telling lies about ...
Tax Lawyer Barbara Edmonds vs Emperor Justinian I- Nolo Contendere: False historical explanations of pivotal events are very far from being inconsequential.WHEN BARBARA EDMONDS made reference to the Roman Empire, my ears pricked up. It is, lamentably, very rare to hear a politician admit to any kind of familiarity ...
It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just show a minimal amount of flux in public support for the various parties in ...
Buzz from the Beehive Housing Minister Chris Bishop delivered news – packed with the ingredients to enflame political passions – worthy of supplanting Winston Peters in headline writers’ priorities. He popped up at the post-Cabinet press conference to promise a crackdown on unruly and antisocial state housing tenants. His ...
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Bryce Edwards writes – Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency ...
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This is a guest post by Connor Sharp of Surface Light Rail Light rail in Auckland: A way forward sooner than you think With the coup de grâce of Auckland Light Rail (ALR) earlier this year, and the shift of the government’s priorities to roads, roads, and more roads, it ...
Note: As a paid-up Webworm member, I’ve recorded this Webworm as a mini-podcast for you as well. Some of you said you liked this option - so I aim to provide it when I get a chance to record! Read more ...
TL;DR: In my ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Monday, March 18:IKEA is accused of planting big forests in New Zealand to green-wash; REDD-MonitorA City for People takes a well-deserved victory lap over Wellington’s pro-YIMBY District Plan votes; A City for PeopleSteven Anastasiou takes a close look at the sticky ...
Buzz from the Beehive Here’s hoping for a lively post-cabinet press conference when the PM and – perhaps – some of his ministers tell us what was discussed at their meeting today. Until then, Point of Order has precious little Beehive news to report after its latest monitoring of the ...
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I’m a bit worried that I’ve started a previous newsletter with the words “just when you think they couldn’t get any worse…” Seems lately that I could begin pretty much every issue with that opening. Such is the nature of our coalition government that they seem to be outdoing each ...
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Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
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Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
“I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
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Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
Chumbawamba have reportedly issued the deputy PM a cease-and-desist notice after he used their song 'Tubthumping' before his state of the nation speech. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deborah Lupton, SHARP Professor, Vitalities Lab, Centre for Social Research in Health and Social Policy Centre, and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society, UNSW Sydney kitzcorner/Shutterstock The assertion from Queensland’s chief health officer John Gerrard that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Shutterstock Why are musicians so keen to get played on the radio? It can’t be because of the money. In Australia they are paid at rates so low they ...
"Farmers make a point not to tell our urban cousins how to live, yet Chlöe from central Auckland is hell-bent on having her say about farmers," says ACT Rural Communities spokesman Mark Cameron. “On her first day in the House as Green ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
There’s ample evidence demonstrating free school lunch programmes provide wide benefits across schools, households and communities according to public health researchers. ACT Minister David Seymour wants to reduce the spending on Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
By Wata Shaw in Suva Fiji is facing an exodus of Fijians as many are leaving for overseas seeking employment and education and others are migrating, says Opposition MP Viliame Naupoto. Speaking in Parliament, he said: “His Excellency’s speech (Ratu Wiliame Katonivere) comes after a little over one year of ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Patrick Taylor, Chief Environmental Scientist, EPA Victoria; Honorary Professor, School of Natural Sciences, Macquarie University Naiyana Somchitkaeo/Shutterstock A recent study published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine has linked microplastics with risk to human health. The study ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Albert Van Dijk, Professor, Water and Landscape Dynamics, Fenner School of Environment & Society, Australian National University Global climate records were shattered in 2023, from air and sea temperatures to sea-level rise and sea-ice extent. Scores of countries recorded their hottest year ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a teacher explains why he and his partner are in frugal mode – and how they’re making it work. Gender: Male Age: 35Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: I am an intermediate school teacher and my partner is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Bendall, Senior Lecturer, Institute for Humanities and Social Sciences, Australian Catholic University Binge Mary & George, the new British television drama series, depicts the real-life story of Mary Villiers and her son George, and their social climbing at the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jason Nassios, Associate Professor, Centre of Policy Studies, Victoria University This article is part of The Conversation’s series examining the housing crisis. Read the other articles in the series here. Australian state and federal governments spend money in many ways to ...
The finance minister is denying that there’s a $5.6b shortfall in paying for the government’s campaign promises, including tax cuts. At his post-cabinet press conference yesterday, the PM refused to rule out new taxes to pay for the cuts, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s ...
Kāinga Ora tenants abused by their neighbours are doubting the government's crackdown on disruptive tenants will make a difference on their behaviour. ...
Kāinga Ora is New Zealand’s biggest residential landlord, housing more than 180,000 vulnerable people in more than 67,000 properties. Yesterday the government announced a crackdown on its tenants who fall behind on rent. One longtime Kāinga Ora tenant shares her experience.For 18 years I lived in a 1960s standalone ...
Why does this myth persist, and what’s the real reason our skin is suffering?It’s one of the biggest international grievances New Zealanders hold, up there with the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior and 1981’s underarm incident. We’re quick to tell international travellers that the world’s pollution led to the ...
Auckland Council is opposing a fast-track development backed by Sir John Kirwan and Spark NZ, because it doesn’t meet stringent new climate adaptation requirements The post Surf-data centre faces new 3.8C climate warming rules appeared first on Newsroom. ...
When the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act was introduced in 2009 it was firmly targeted at gangs and drugs. The legislation means police no longer need a conviction to seize assets that criminals can’t prove were paid for legitimately, as long as their alleged offences are punishable by more than a ...
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Bob’s relationship with certain members of Lincoln’s academic staff continued to deteriorate in the 1990s. Others supported him publicly, though articles such as Roland Clark’s 1993 piece in Growing Today cannot have pleased the university management. Clark wrote that Bob was selling onions from the Biological Husbandry Unit to a ...
SailGP’s races feature in-your-face action, with agile, hydro-foiling catamarans tacking and jibing for the title over several days. However, public comments ahead of the global series’ return to New Zealand have left this past year’s controversy in the shadows, as a key appointment attracts criticism from dolphin advocates. A year ...
Opinion: We are fast approaching a fundamental change in prisons. As the number of people on custodial remand looks set to overtake the number of sentenced prisoners, the main function of prisons in New Zealand may become incarcerating un-sentenced people who may not be guilty of offending. We have already ...
A huge seven months lies in store for the White Ferns, beginning this week with the visit of England and culminating with the T20 World Cup in Bangladesh in September and October. Starting on Tuesday in Dunedin, the world ranked No. 2 visitors will play five T20s and three ODIs, ...
Opinion: In a move that has shocked road safety advocates across the country, the new Minister of Transport, Simeon Brown, is poised to abandon the previous government’s speed limit reduction policy, particularly around schools. Even more alarmingly, he wants school speed limits to be variable rather than full-time, arguing ...
The letters, which were published last week, were addressed to Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI-P) Chairperson Megawati Sukarnoputri, National Democrat Party (NasDem) Chairperson Surya Paloh, National Awakening Party (PKB) Chairperson Muhaimin Iskandar, Justice and Prosperity Party (PKS) President Ahmad Syaikhu and United Development Party (PPP) Chairperson Muhammad Mardiono. In ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
Evicting more people from state housing is ignorant to the consequences of poverty, the Greens say, but the Housing Minister says it's a privilege that can be taken away if abused. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emerald L King, Lecturer in Humanities, University of Tasmania IMDB Between Netflix’s 2023 live-action version of One Piece, and its latest take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, fans are once again asking: why are live-action anime adaptations so tricky to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emerald L King, Lecturer in Humanities, University of Tasmania IMDB Between Netflix’s 2023 live-action version of One Piece, and its latest take on Avatar: The Last Airbender, fans are once again asking: why are live-action anime adaptations so tricky to ...
The government says it still intends to deliver tax cuts by July, but will not lock them in until they have got them past their coalition partners. ...
Kiingi Tuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII has hosted members of the Green Party Caucus at Tuurangawaewae Marae in Ngaaruawahia. The audience follows the King’s Hui-aa-Motu on 20 January, where more than 10,000 people gathered to discuss national ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dr Rachael Potter, Research Associate and Lecturer in Work and Organisational Psychology, University of South Australia Ground Picture/Shutterstock Pregnant women and workers with children are often unfairly treated by their bosses and colleagues, despite laws to protect against workplace discrimination ...
Reacting to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon’s refusal to rule out introducing new taxes at the budget, Taxpayers’ Union Campaigns Manager, Connor Molloy, said: “Today’s refusal to rule out new taxes suggests the Government is nothing more ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne Aila Images/Shutterstock Aged-care workers will receive a significant pay increase after the Fair Work Commission ruled they ...
Yesterday Carol commenting on open mike posted a link to an article exposing the shameful exploitation of the parliamentary cleaners.
Here is the link she supplied:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7486644/Parliaments-cleaners-seek-pay-rise
Anyone who has ever been to parliament cannot help noticing what a amazing job these low paid workers do. The place glows like a polished jewel. The respect these workers have for this institution and the dedication they put into their work, shows.
It is morally shocking at how low paid they are.
For MPs to walk through these polished halls everyday and ignore the exploitation of these low paid workers right under their noses and in their very midst, is in my opinion, dangerously corrosive to their moral compass. (And I am talking about all MPs here). Blatantly turning a blind eye to the injustice of this extreme inequality every day in your own workplace, day in day out, makes it easier for these men and women to ignore child poverty or other extremes of inequality in the rest of the country.
Draco T Bastard and Vicky 32 both wrote;
To which I would like to add that there is also a lot the opposition MPs should/could do, as well.
If the opposition MPs were serious about helping low paid workers out. Of whom the parliamentary cleaners are a representative of.
And these opposition MPs approach to the Parliamentary Service in support of the clerners demand for $15 is not met, in full, then I would like to challenge the parliamentary opposition parties, Labour, Greens, NZF, Mana to go on strike for one week. During which time they will donate their wages to the Spotless workers to stay at home as well.
Will they do it?
Or, is all the expressed concern for the low paid by these opposition MPs just hot air?
By their actions you shall know them
Thanks for this Jenny. Yes, I hope that the opposition parties do take some protest action on this issue.
However, isn’t it now against the law to go out on strike in support of workers in a different occupation? Or does the law relate to those in a different workplace, and it is within the law to protest for other workers in your workplace?
In answer to your question Carol. Yes it is. But I don’t think this prohibition applies to parliamentarians. And even if it did, I don’t think it is likely we would see the police and the courts try to enforce it. They would look like even bigger wallies than when they raided Kim Dotcom, or Tama Iti.
On a more serious note. Parliamentarians rather than being regarded as workers, (albeit in another occupation), could be more accurately called their own boss and so are free to do as they please. If they called their stay-away a protest and not a strike, then quite likely it would not be illegal.
Of course they are worth $15/hr, everyone is.
The question is why the “workers champion”, when they were in power for 9 whole years didn’t do anything about it.
That’s easy Grumpy, they were following the neo-liberal play book that they introduced to NZ three decades ago.
Labour did push up the minimum wage enormously when they were in power. But in our current political economy, that minimum wage quickly falls behind, and is also irrelevant for those who become unemployed.
A UI and policies of 100% employment are crucial.
A tax system that rewards work rather than breeding would also help.
and burt wanders in spouting his usual ignorance.
It’s not the tax system that rewards work but the wage system and our wage system is designed to keep wages low and profits high.
Oh, that’s right… we only pretend that WFF is part of the tax system when we want to talk about tax credits to argue tax isn’t high on low earners when Labour are in power… It’s part of the welfare system when National are in power… sorry Draco – I didn’t keep up with the fantasy world of pretending we can tax our way to a fair society.
Its not fantasy, and it seems to work OK. Not like other countries that have no welfare system and vast expansive slums.
WfF is there due to low wages, not high taxes.
Oh, of course… it rebates the tax burden because …. low wage earners are taxed too heavily… yeah – slice and dice the BS any way you want Draco – it’s a tax adjustment/it’s welfare… – it’s a breeders tax reduction whichever way you look at it.
If they weren’t paid so little to begin with then we wouldn’t have to cut the taxes that they pay so that they could afford to raise their families. That is the heart of capitalism – paying many SFA to work hard so that the few can live in luxury and not have to work at all.
Right, so your glorious socialist party that identified people were paid too little played with the tax system to be popular enough to win another election so that it could …. play some more with the tax system.
@ Jenny (& Carol)
Yes, this would be excellent!
Would speak volumes if opposition party members took this approach.
“Walking their talk in pictures” (which speak a thousand words).
Thanks for that Blue. Here are two stories from Common Dreams that could have just as easily been written about how our scandalously low paid parliamentary cleaners are treated.
Here’s to the Houston Janitors
Dead Woman Working
Will our opposition MPs act or will they keep walking through their polished halls refusing to acknowledge those who do their work?
@ Jenny
Cheers
I particularly liked the “Dead Woman Working” article:
“Nothing in my dream was tied to massive wealth or domination over other people. But that killer instinct certainly is present in many people I know. That’s the instinct I apparently lack – the need to be rich and control others even if it means allowing those many others to suffer and die for my personal achievement.”
Fran Osullivan is interesting today:
Cloth Cap Cunliffe Pursues Hidden Agenda
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10827742
I didn’t think it was possible to cram so many neo-godwin’s law (comparisons to totalitarian communist states) infringements into such a small space.
However, her final comment is relevant, and who here hasn’t thunk it?
…As with Bo in China, Cunliffe has launched a serious challenge to the prevailing ideology of his party’s political wing. Does he seriously believe the nostrums in his three speeches or has he cynically “gone red” to build votes within the party at large. And will his colleagues succeed in burying him? The ABC club can’t place Cunliffe under house arrest. They might just have to engage instead.
Ewww…. so unsubtle, Ms O’Sullivan…. The right must truly fear Cunliffe, meanwhile trying to keep Labour in-fighting front-and-centre.
However, I did smirk a little at the sideswipe at Nikki Kaye:
And that speaks more of politboro politics than Cunliffe’s alleged independence of thought.
That sounds remarkably like how to succeed in large private firms as well.
Perhaps FOS understands what the “parliamentarians on ‘exchange’ is designed for..
It is possible that FOS is astute to enough to subtley indicate that the “Think Tanks” which are blatantly not what most simpletons want to believe, are in fact little more than brain (dead)washing?
Would Cunliffe be the one to lead a parliamentary opposition walk out in a solidarity action with the parliamentary cleaners?
LEST WE FORGET
Here’s the real reason they want to destroy Julian Assange….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
I thought the only person wanting to destroy Assange was Assange…..
Talk about a self destruct personality, ot uncommon on the left
I thought the only person wanting to destroy Assange was Assange…..
You “thought”? Here’s what you need to do, pronto…
1.) WATCH the video.
2.) READ something about the case. (Something serious, that is. Paul Thomas in the Herald is not serious. The Grauniad and the BBC, from which you draw your opinions, are about as serious and independent as Pravda and Tass.
3.) THINK.
4.) READ some more.
5.) READ, read, read, and think….
Off you go now.
Link to something serious M.
Link to something serious M.
I’ve done that virtually every time I have started a thread on this topic. But here’s another one just for you, my friend….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ExSqnuwyk
Ooh, a 2 year old msnbc report and an interview with Ellsberg.
Ellsberg is a serious historic figure. His leaks of the Pentagon papers went all the way to the Supreme Court and resulted in rulings that clarified that journalists who hace recieved classified material are protected by the first amendment when they publish them, you’ll note in that report that officials were saying that charges were not imminent. Guess why that is? Hint, I’ve already told you in this paragraph.
Also relevant is that WL has never published anything as secret as what Ellsberg leaked, or what the NYT or the WaPo have published.
Two years on, and the investigation Holder mentions in that report has still not laid any charges. No charges = no grounds for extradition.
And to forestall any bleating about the UK–> Sweden extradition; Sweden lays charges much later in the investigation the the UK or the US does. If Assange was accused of rape and sexual offences in either the uS or the iK, or here, he would already be charged.
Now you dismissed the gaurdian Edit I linked to yesterday in a laughable manner, simply asserting that it could have been written by the Foreign Office.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/16/julian-assange-wikileaks-refugee-protection?CMP=twt_gu
I’m sure the foreign office would write that. Yup, aha. I don’t think you even read the editorial.
I trust you can either argue against the editorials content yourself, or link to someone serious who can do so. It raises some inteesting points that are relevant today, rather than 2 years ago.
Particularly, the point that if Assange goes to Sweden, international law gives him more protection than he has if he stays in the UK. this is because “both Sweden and the UK would have to sign off on any extradition application” from the US. An application that hasn’t been made yet because no charges have been laid in the US.
So have at it, be serious. Address these points.
Or wriggle around and launch ad homs like a fan boy. Your choice.
Here ya Morrisey, jump on this one and address the actual content of the editorial.
Have at it, should be a piece of cake, seeing you’ve read so much and all.
List the errors and explain their significance.
Have at it, should be a piece of cake, seeing you’ve read so much and all.
I’ve posted a lot on this topic already, and I’ve linked to many reputable articles and talks by people who know what they’re talking about, rather than poorly informed hacks and out and out propagandists like David Aaronovitch. And now, hilariously, someone who says Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky engage in rhetoric, wants me to engage in stupid trench warfare with him.
Sorry, my friend, your approach is frivolous—rather than argue your case, you’ve tried to belittle me by calling me a “fan boy” on at least two occasions today, but then you’ve also virtually dismissed Ellsberg and Chomsky, so I’m in good company.
Not that you would care, but for anyone who does give a damn, the inadequacy of that craven Grauniad editorial has been astutely analyzed here….
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1345182455.html
At some point can everyone stop these threads. They say the same thing everyday and noone gets any further but they fill up Open Mike so noone can talk about anything else without scrolling down for ages.
I get it Morrissey Assange is a saint – I get it pretty much everyone else he should front the investigation without danger of being extradited to the US.
I get it Morrissey Assange is a saint…
No, I have never claimed that. He is a man, albeit a very brave man who has dared to tell the truth at a time when that is an extremely dangerous choice.
And he is also a man who obviously is not above temptation. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is a rapist, of course.
Morrissey, saying “No it isn’t” isn’t analysis.
Grumpy, what makes you think Assange is on the left? I thought he was more an anarchist / individualist.
Probably common with anarchists too…..
There was an interview with him in one of the Australian papers, and I got the impression he was a libertarian.
The John Banks Trophy for…
DUM QUOTE OF THE WEEK
Award No. 1: for week ending 17/08/2012
This week’s winner—and the inaugural holder of the John Banks Trophy—is the awesome Te Reo Putake. In a field crowded with the uninformed, the cynical, the craven, and the plain stupid, our friend nudged ahead of close rivals Weka, Pascal’s Bookie, and the indefatigable yet ill-informed McFlock with this effort for the ages, posted late at night, quite possibly under the influence of a mind=bending substance…
“What is so special about Assange that Sweden should change its laws for him?”
Te Reo Putake, Open Mike, 17/08/2012
His inanity was, of course, almost immediately seized on and corrected by the superior RedLogix and Colonial Viper; their contributions serve to highlight and immortalize our friend’s achievement.
Bloody good quote actually and one that most people would be proud to have made……..
Bloody good quote actually and one that most people would be proud to have made……..
LOL. Classic! You couldn’t make this stuff up!
Still, good on you, Grumpy. I’ll bet you’re a great friend in a crisis.
Assange HAD great friends in a crisis too, until he skipped bail………
Vaughan Smith is a very nice man, but his brand of timidity is not what you want on your case in a crisis….
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1345167751.html
Well, I agree with you there…..looks like Assange just took money where he could and “weak”idiots like Smith and Jemima Khan were soft touches.
For a guy who didn’t think twice about putting a bullet into the back of some poor bastards head, Assange is sure a whiner……..
looks like Assange just took money where he could and “weak”idiots like Smith and Jemima Khan were soft touches.
Once again, whether deliberately or not, you’ve missed the point spectacularly. Smith is weak not because he has paid money to help a dissenter, but because he lacks the toughness of character, the fortitude, to confront an ignorant bully like David Aaronovitch.
For a guy who didn’t think twice about putting a bullet into the back of some poor bastards head, Assange is sure a whiner……..
What on earth are you talking about? Is this another government-sponsored fantasy now?
Interestingly enough, I just this afternoon, was reading a discussion about Assange/Ecuador on an American site, and someone came and answered the (reasonable) question ‘why don’t Sweden say they are not going to extradite Assange to the USA’?
This person’s answer “Well, if he’s found to have murdered someone in the US, they may have to”…
First, the person did not say “found to be suspected of having murdered’ – which I find interesting in itself, but second and more important – is there such an allegation coming up?
I wouldn’t read too much into that V, it sounds like a hypothetical to explain why the demands that Sweden promise he won’t be extradited to the US won’t fly.
The problem is that they have an extradition treaty with the US. Given that fact, they can’t make that promise. If the US charge him with something, (and given the passing of time it looks like they ahving problems doing so), then Sweden will be legally obligated to consider an extradition request.
The demand to ‘promise not to extradite’, is a demand that Sweden abandon it’s treaty with the US.
This conclusion is complicated by the fact that a Grand Jury may have been formed to consider charges against Assange, but due to secrecy rules we would never know about their deliberations, or even that a Grand Jury has been called.
Further, rule 6e, 4) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure allows for a criminal indictment to be sealed until a suspect was in direct custody. In other words, the US may have already charged Assange – but are keeping the indictment secret.
But can they extradite him from Sweden without an indictment CV, or with a secret one?
They will need to convince Sweden and the UK to extradite him. That means they will need to say what they want him for.
And if they do say what they want him for, Sweden will be legally obliged to consider the request.
That’s why Sweden can’t offer him a blanket promise. To do so would be to throw the extradition treaty in the trash bin.
Yes the US would have to make the details available to the Swedish authorities at a future time.
So the key is that those US indictments may already exist. If they do exist, they have been formalised with the intent of seeking Assange’s extradition. But because they are secret, Assange has no way of using their existence, in his defence against extradition to Sweden.
That makes no sense at all.
If the indictments exist, then it doesn’t matter if he is Sweden or the UK. If he is in the UK, the US will ask the Brits, if he is in Sweden, they will ask the Swede’s. the fact that the US hasn’t asked anyone suggests that they haven’t been able to come up with an indictment. Unless you have another explanation?
The only relevant point is that if he is in Seden via extradition from the UK, then both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to a US extradition.
…oh, yes……..he had other “great friends” too, until he slipped one into them while they were asleep……….
until he slipped one into them while they were asleep…
What have you got to say about the murder video? Or do you spend all your time on state-sanctioned diversions?
The video is shocking, I agree. But, we are talking about Assange the person, he gave up the mantle of “freedom fighter” when his warped personality got the better of him.
Not worth wasting your time to defend……….
we are talking about Assange the person, he gave up the mantle of “freedom fighter” when his warped personality got the better of him.
No doubt you now condemn Martin Luther King, who was a tireless womanizer. There is evidence that he was a rapist too—as much as there is against Assange.
LOL – a minor morrie? don’t forget to chuck in some miners – your stew is tiresome – much like you.
…your stew is tiresome – much like you.
Personal attacks now? That’s getting a bit desperate, surely?
But in the light of your lack of any other weapons, such as facts or arguments, it will have to do for you, I guess.
By the way, you might like to check out my advice to Grumpy, above. Hope it proves to be of some help to you.
thank you my friend, but I hardly imagine you really find “tiresome” too insulting and it’s a pretty mellow “personal attack” if it can even be called that. I admit I did try to be funny – 🙁 my bad
I admit I did try to be funny – my bad
No need to apologize, my friend. You’ve done nothing wrong. I can take a putdown. You don’t think I’m a delicate creature like Judith Collins, do you?
Lot of people just envious that Assange was getting laid.
The man has done a thousand times more for the world than any of us will ever do .. and these small minds sneer at him because he had sex.
you are a projectionist mate – and that comment is contemptible but not surprising coming from you.
I have some symathy for that view BUT as the sex seems to have been obtained under, at least, dubious circumstances, that sympathy is pretty limited.
Reminds me of the defence for Clinton, “at least we have a President who f*cks”.
Reminds me of the defence for Clinton
Please don’t mention Julian Assange, who is a champion of democracy, in the same sentence as that disgusting, corrupt champion of dictatorships and mass bombing.
Actually, the fact that you have done so tells a lot about just how ignorant and non-serious you are.
More evidence for the Fan boy thesis.
if i were to assume the very best possible interpretation of your comment RL I’d say it was spawned by such awe of Assange’s professional ‘achievements’ that you have misplaced your sense of right and wrong
if i were to assume the worst – that you have not only prejudged the rape accusation as a fabrication but also that Assange should be admired for his treatment of women – then I’d have to say you you have no sense of right and wrong
that you have not only prejudged the rape accusation as a fabrication but also that Assange should be admired for his treatment of women
Ah … only it’s not a ‘rape’ accusation. It’s something else. The women involved invited Assange into their beds.
At the same time the Swedes have these relatively laws around regulating what adults can and cannot do in their beds …. and they’ve already had one significant 5 week period where Assange stayed in the country, was interviewed and the proceedings apparently dropped. He was then given permission to leave the country.
Subsequent events however cast a great deal of doubt on whether the real motives involved in re-opening and pursuing the case. Given that reality all that is required is for the Swedes to get on a plane to the UK, interview their man, decide whether to lay a charge or not, and make a simple, cost-free, declaration that if he returns to Sweden to face a Court (in a timely fashion) … that he will not be subject to other unrelated actions.
Then the desired legal process can proceed in the normal fashion.
“Ah … only it’s not a ‘rape’ accusation. It’s something else. The women involved invited Assange into their beds.”
Rape myth: if you have sex once with someone you cannot then be raped by them.
Rape myth: if you invite someone into your bed, you consent to all sexual activity that that person wants.
So you think it’s a trumped up allegation to get him back to Sweden so that he can be tried and subsequently extradited to the US?
Does your conviction also mean that you have decided the women making the allegations are both liars, and that a Swedish court won’t give him a fair trial?
Does your view also give you the right to call the people who are asking for him to face up to those allegations “small minded, sneering and envious” ?
Although I’m rather bored with this debate, the question is whether the consent to have sex ended? When exactly did one of them or both fall asleep and how long was that for? “You better not have aids,” isn’t exactly a statement that clarifies the situation.
In Assange’s mind, he would have thought; ‘I don’t have aids, this feels good, everything is OK’. In the complainants mind, it could have been translated as; ‘He’s not wearing a condom and probably has aids, get the fuck off me you pervert’.
She didn’t say stop or get off me though, so the question as to whether the consent to have further sex is not answered, and the speculation on blogs about such things is rather pointless. Only a court of law can answer the question to an adequate degree.
I don’t think Assange should risk extradition to the US where he possibly faces the death penalty for the alleged crimes surrounding Wikileaks. I do think he should stand trial for the alleged crimes in Sweden. Unfortunately these are not mutually distinguishable and until they are, which depends mainly on a decision by the US, we’re at an impasse.
you have misplaced your sense of right and wrong
RedLogix pointed out what you and some others choose to turn a blind eye to: that an enraged U.S. government is conspiring to destroy a whistle-blower by using two women to file a wild and ludicrous sexual allegation. You wouldn’t know, of course, but that’s an old KGB procedure. In your mind, to point that out is “misplacing a sense of right and wrong”, apparently.
Could I ask you to have a look at this and then see who has misplaced a sense of right and wrong?….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0
“and these small minds sneer at him because he had sex.”
Look, now we have our own painter on the roof story! Because as we all know, it’s completely possible to tell whether something was rape from the other side of the globe 🙄
Also, that’s two clear examples in this thread where the wellbeing of women is expendable according to leftwing men.
I’m fairly sure the women involved in these accusations are ok. I stand to be corrected.
Red you have no way of knowing whether those women are ok or not.
At the very least, stop calling rape sex.
It’s not proven to be rape yet… There is no question that they had sex. You are guilty of your own accusation that it’s not possible to tell if it’s rape or not from the other side of the world.
Please stop inferring that all people who defend Assange are supporting rape culture weka, and that isolated opinion defines what all men who comment here think. It’s insulting!
I have no idea what happened Jackal, that is the point. I’m not saying that Assange raped those women. I’m saying that the complainants’ account fits the definition of rape. Other people are saying it doesn’t. We’re not arguing about whether Assange is a rapist, we’re arguing about what rape is, and who gets to define it.
Anyone who says that rape didn’t happen is pre-empting the justice system, which is meant to afford justice to victims.
Now, just to be clear, because apparently this is a bit subtle for some people, my last sentence does not read “Assange is a rapist”. Please read it carefully and think about what I have just said.
Well the difficulty for me Jackal is that there are a number of regular commenters in the ongoing conversations about Assange on TS who DO use mis-arguments about rape and promote rape myths to support their politic agenda. Nowhere have I said that all people who support Assange support rape culture. In fact the opposite. If you can’t see that then you really are not understanding my argument at all. This surprises me, because you seem an intelligent person otherwise.
Honestly, I think you are reading many things into my comments that simply aren’t there. I’ve been very specific about what I think supports rape culture in this debate. Morrissey’s insistance that rape didn’t happen. RedLogix calling rape sex. The rape myths eg that once a woman has sex with someone once she consents to all other sexual activity. CV’s misusing concepts of consent. Prism’s ideas that rape is only extreme physical sexual violence. Those are all the things that support rape culture, NOT the fact that they side with Assange. Do you get what I am saying now?
I’m really happy to keep discussing this with you but would appreciate if you could be more specific about my points and check things out rather than making statements about what I am implying.
Um, unless I managed to miss something Weka, that’s you pretending to know what actually went on.
Edit: Just read your reponse above Weka, and would can’t say I read the quote any other way, perhaps I missed a reference or comment in another post?
The Assange situation is most likely nothing what anyone who has posted or read on either side of anything to do with WL’s, or other events surrounding Assange, and taking a position on either side of it categorically, means that people are easily fooled, because they think in absolutes!
Did he do it , did he not, was he really in charge of WL’s, was it a front etc….
See the energy the internet sucks out of people…put that into something physical, and those on this site might actually make a real difference..
Whose in….thought not!
Hmmm, let me try again Muzza.
One of the complainants says that Assange had sex with her while she was asleep (ie he put his penis inside her vagina while she was unconscious). That is an illegal act of rape (unless she gave him permission beforehand). I’m not saying that Assange did that. I’m saying that IF he did that, then that’s rape.
When someone describes that act as sex, they’re wrong. The law states that it is rape.
As far as I can tell, RL thinks the act of a man putting his penis inside a woman while she is unconscious is sex. He’s wrong.
http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329057.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_crimes+act+_resel_25_h&p=1
weka
? Much of the debate has revolved around whether Assange is guilty of rape or not. In fact labeling it rape at this stage shows you have already made up your mind. I think most people have a fair understanding of what rape is, which is defined by various laws in different countries.
I must have misunderstood this then:
and
This could be interpreted as: “People who defend Assange think it’s OK to rape women, and because some people are defending Assange on the Standard, all leftwing men support rape culture”. Can you not see why I object to such generalizations?
This is an important point because you run the risk of alienating people and turning them against your cause, even though your cause is justified. Reducing rape culture (which some people have argued doesn’t exist) is a fundamental step in creating a more equal and safe society… Especially for woman.
Rape culture is pretty well defined, and although some of the comments here are borderline, categorically saying they support rape culture would to some degree depend on your opinion about what happened between Assange and the complainants.
I understand your points of view, but very much doubt that any of the people you’ve named because you disagree with their comments support rape culture. Your accusations that they do is somewhat detrimental to your cause, and therefore I think you’ve not been as careful as you believe in choosing what comments to rally against.
weka, Assange should certainly face up to Swedish criminal investigators IMO. I presume he is innocent, but a criminal investigation has been started and he needs to participate in that to either clear his name or be found guilty once and for all. But I also back RL’s statement:
Assange has also offered to do the interview by videolink – completely standard procedure in the modern day – and from there Swedish investigators can either charge him, or follow up with him in person. All that could be done TODAY.
IMO the women complainants are being used as pawns by the major governments and their complaints unnecesarily held in limbo by the authorities – you should be angry at that. The criminal investigators have had multiple opportunities to progress their complaints by questioning Assange, but they haven’t – I suppose on the orders of their superiors/political sponsors.
Sure CV. But in my world it’s conceivable that Assange sexually assaulted those women AND those women are being used by political powers.
Further, I don’t consider Assange’s personal wellbeing more important than the women in the case, no matter how big a hero he is to the left.
And, I don’t consider wikileaks to be a more important issue for humanity than rape culture.
Whenever the left puts Assange and/or wikileaks and/or the issue of political interference ahead of the complainants, women’s experience of rape, or the politics of rape*, I sigh and think here we go again. As I’ve said, this is not new to women on the left. It happens alot and until men on the left understand this enough to change culturally there is always a severe limit in their solidarity with women.
* let me put that another way: whenever the left undermines the complainants, women’s experience of rape, or the politics of rape, and they do so for another political purpose eg saving the butt of a famous well-off white man, or resisting US imperialism, or whatever, they engage in the very same behaviour they are fighting against, and so we all lose.
There is nothing wrong with you wanting to save Assange, or wanting to fight US imperialism. I’m saying you don’t have to do it at the expense of women. I think some men on the left struggle to even understand what I am talking about, but others are well aware of the dynamic and just don’t give a shit (women are expendable after all).
I’m not sure where you sit in all that, you seem to understand, but still be playing the game albeit much more lightly than Morrissey or RL.
“you should be angry at that.”
What makes you think that I’m not?
Red Logix
It is so pleasant for people to cut others down, I don’t see it as being tall poppy syndrome but just a desire to carp and pass judgment. Think Bill Clinton, think Helen Clark’s signed auction item – any way to chip away from them.
Look at the covers of women’s magazines in supermarkets. They are quite expensive but stay in circulation as they reveal all, and often just about do in their sneak photos on the covers. The people who become celebrities have searchlights and moral potshots lobbed at them, no overlooking any fault, despite what noble or ground-breaking improvement they are trying to achieve. I’m not including Strauss Kahen? in this as he seems to just have been a well paid jerk.
“What is so special about Assange that Sweden should change its laws for him?”
Apparently the law should change because international misogyny’s Morrissey and a little light raping’s Red Logix say so. I’m so impressed.
Is it diificult to type with your penises lads? Or are they small enough to hit the keys first time every time?
No law change would be required mate. Just an assurance that Swedish authorities aren’t going to extradite Assange on completely unrelated and unannounced matters.
Such an assurance might satisfy you, CV, but clearly it won’t satisfy Assange. We already know that Sweden won’t extradite if the death penalty is a possibility, so we are left with a cowardly criminal* hiding for no good reason.
*Criminal in the sense that he has broken UK law by skipping out on his bail. And ripping off his mates in the process. Like you, I believe he should answer and defend the Swedish charges, so I make no assumptions about the criminality there. Though his sexual behaviour is obviously appalling anyway.
“Just an assurance that Swedish authorities aren’t going to extradite Assange on completely unrelated and unannounced matters.”
Ecuador has said it’s willing to co-operate on that basis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/17/julian-assange-extradition-ecuador-embassy
Assange has probably realised he’s a bit trapped with this move. I agree it’s time for diplomats to do the diplomatic thing and if that’s what it takes to end the stand-off, Sweden should give an explicit, rather than implied assurance and get this sorted.
The John Banks Trophy holder writes wittily: “Is it diificult to type with your penises lads? Or are they small enough to hit the keys first time every time?”
Considering he’s a Banksy winner, that was a really, really good one.
But I feel sure others will agree with me that he’s funnier when he’s pretending to be serious.
Might start calling you Overhead, on account of how you project so well.
Or you can get serious any time you like.
“Overhead”?
Say… I LIKE it!
Or “rear projector”, because you’re talking out of your arse.
Or “rear projector”, because you’re talking out of your arse.
Not such a good one. That could set you up for a Martin Devlin Unfunny Line award, however.
I’ll nominate you. Can I get a seconder?
You know, I’d probably know more, and possibly even care more, about the Assange case if these threads didn’t keep degenerating into what amounts to little more than flame wars.
I’d probably know more, and possibly even care more, about the Assange case if these threads didn’t keep degenerating into what amounts to little more than flame wars.
No, you’d know more and—unless you’re a moral imbecile—you’ll care more about the Assange case if you do some serious and sustained reading about it.
Here’s a starter for you….
http://www.countercurrents.org/todhunter240612.htm
If you’re serious, though, you’ll read much, much, much more.
Lol.
Serioulsy, that’s serious? Rhetoric. Marginally effective rhetoric I suppose, if what you are after is something to stir the blood of that already convinced, but the analysis is non existent, and the description of Wikileaks is so shallow I’d expect ot see it in a broadsheet article ‘From the Left’.
that’s Trotter level stuff.
try again.
Okay. You’re here and you’re serious. That’s encouraging.
Is Daniel Ellsberg serious enough for you?….
http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/public-accuracy-press-release
Noam Chomsky?….
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/noam_chomsky_wikileaks_cables_reveal_profound
Neither of those pieces, which I’ve seen before, really add much to the actual issues of the moment.
What I’m looking for is analysis and reporting. Not rhetoric, arguments.
Thinngs that just outline how bad the US is, or what Wikileaks was doing, and to whom, and whether or not we should support wikileaks, don’t add much to a debate about the actual state of play today.
Just because an individual has cred, that doesn’t make everything they say ‘serious’.
What I’m looking for is analysis and reporting. Not rhetoric, arguments.
Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky are not analytical? That’s rich coming from someone who’s just recycled some windy Grauniad propaganda and even praised it as “good”.
…don’t add much to a debate about the actual state of play today.
Nonsense. Their analyses touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen in London over the last two days. The fact you choose to participate in the black propaganda campaign waged by the likes of William Hague means your protestations that you are “looking for analysis” are not serious.
Just because an individual has cred, that doesn’t make everything they [sic] say ‘serious’.
On the other hand, you are prepared to accept as “serious” the allegations of individuals and organizations with NO “cred”, such as the inveterate liars and governments that are trying to destroy Assange.
I don’t believe you’ve read those pieces before, either.
Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky are not analytical? That’s rich coming from someone who’s just recycled some windy Grauniad propaganda and even praised it as “good”.
they are sometimes. those pieces didn’t have any analysis of the recent events that I could see. Why don’t you tell me how the Ellsberg piece sheds light on the extradition issues.
And it seems to me that your basis for judging the seriuosness of who is saying it is based on two things. Whether they support your position, and whether you like the author. Prove me wrong, talk about content, discuss the issue.
Nonsense. Their analyses touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen in London over the last two days. The fact you choose to participate in the black propaganda campaign waged by the likes of William Hague means your protestations that you are “looking for analysis” are not serious.
More tiresome nonsense. Explain to me how those pieces touch on the very heart of what we’ve seen. And what black propaganda campaign am I engaged in? Honestly, because I disagree with you I’m a lackey of Hague/ Grow up Morrisey, cut the bluster and start on the actual issues. Address the content of the gaurdian edit, instead of just rolling our eyes at the mention of the word Gaurdian.
On the other hand, you are prepared to accept as “serious” the allegations of individuals and organizations with NO “cred”, such as the inveterate liars and governments that are trying to destroy Assange.
More baseless smearing. What allegations have I accepted? Again, show me that your views are driven by more than Assange good, everyone who doesn’t saint Assange, utterly evil and not worthy of listening to.
Address some of the actual arguments. All you’ve done so far is attack the sources. Weak overhead is failing.
1.) And what black propaganda campaign am I engaged in?
Classic! We have an early contender for the next John Banks Trophy.
Don’t forget to put yourself down for a regional daytime Emmy.
So to recap:
Your response to the arguments in the editorial I linked to is:
Neena neena, The Gaurdian, MSM
Your explantion of how your links are relevant to what’s going on now is:
It’s Ellsberg!! and Chompsky!! Therefore it must be relevant.
And your evidence for me being a part of, or repeating, black propaganda is :
You’re like John Banks!
That’s some powerful argumentation in support of your positions there Morrisey.
yes Pb. I read both the links supplied by morrissey at least twice because I was searching for something to do with what was being discussed – they almost seemed irrelevant, in that the background issues they raised aren’t even in contention as far as I can tell on this forum.
the prof might mark that effort down a bit I think.
Me too Draco.
This looks like a shambles waiting to happen…. and a load more questions likely to be put to that 3yr old masquerading as Minister:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10827772
It seems that things, necessary to some teens like tranpsort, will need to come out of the cash payment. There also is supposed to be a local community-based youth service provider that will replace case managers. But many of these “providers” won’t be in place for a few months, leaving many teens with no-one to turn to when there are problems.
She said the payment card could be spent only at food stores.
Being the good business people most food store owners are, I’m sure the range of goods they stock will increase reasonably quickly.
FIFY
Normal procedure when a business has a customer base that can’t go anywhere else.
I should have put a little /sarc tag on that one, but anyways, nearly there, how about….
Being the good business people most food store owners are, I’m sure the range of goods they stock will increase reasonably quickly, and priced at a premium for these customers with restricted access to alternatives markets.
So an adult is to cater for their and their child’s non-food needs on $50 a week? ffs!
No, they simply can’t. It’s all designed to get them moving – out of school, out of motherhood and into the world of low wage employees.
And since there are no jobs out there at the low end, its actually designed to permanently suppress already low wages by ensuring a massive oversupply of labour.
Carol
When I was doing my social policy papers I came across a strong distaste for a condition that welfare was supposed to encourage called ‘learned helplessness’. It seems to me that handing out pocket money to youthful parents is not helping them to learn mature financial handling if they need it. I have heard interviews with numbers of young mothers who have been very serious about their position and acquiring skills that would enable them to cope and live better.
And this food thing reminds me of the diminishing situation for beneficiaries personal esteem where Shipleys National govt had it set up so that supermarket checkout staff vetted their choice of groceries.
Dame Anne Salmond’s Sir Paul Reeves Memorial lecture is worth reading and meditating on:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10827658
She outlines some European and Maori traditional cultural values and ideas, which are a mix of complementary and conflicting ideals (the hierarchic, fragmenting and marginalising order of things, and the more egalitarian and inclusive order of relations, following Foucault).
Dame Anne argues, with reference to statistics and current issues in education and politics, that the way forward is to draw on some cooperative traditions from Europe (the order of relations) and Maori (and Asian) approaches to community in order to develop some innovative ways of responding to current problems.
But it’s worth taking the time to read the whole lecture. But this idea of a network of relations and collaborative, non-hierarchical ways of working with diverse groups of people, is one close to my heart.
Rather than ‘network’, I tend to view this in terms of societies. What I mean by that is that it’s a nonsense to consider NZ as a society. No person belongs to a single society. We all are a part of numerous societies that often overlap and that are connected by various ‘degrees of separation’.
Once that is understood, then it becomes clear why our current mode of governance – remote authority seeking to legislate or educate or whatever, on a simplistic and mistaken idea of society as some monolithic or homogenous whole – results in an ever growing, unsatisfying morass that’s forever in need of ‘refinement’.
There is a dominant strain of values contained within the more powerful or dominant expression of culture in NZ (ie, once rooted in Christianity and now largely reduced to so called market values). And to the degree that your cultural identity departs from the mores that inform the governance of so-called ‘NZ society’, the greater the potential for that governance to be inimical, irrelevent or unjust (disempowering) from your cultural perspective.
It’s not in any way controversial to hold that societies need to be able to govern themselves. But the radical situation we find ourselves in whereby societies are rendered invisible by a false overarching construct that simply labels itself ‘society’ makes that simple and basic need impossible.
You create serfs by making people dependent upon the few and that’s exactly what’s happening in our society. The rich few are making everyone else dependent upon them – just as they did under feudalism. They’re just using laws instead of swords to enforce that dependency.
Now that I’ve read Dame Anne Salmond piece, I’d just say it’s a shame she doesn’t ‘call it’. Seems to me she is almost advocating horizontal or non-heirarchical forms of governance or organising, but can’t take the final necessary step of politically challenging the legitimacy of current heirarchical and centrist approaches.
And that leaves her trying to square a circle insofar as she’s advocating that current structures persist, but adopt different ways of functioning. I can’t see it myself. They are what they are, and have the influence they have, because of the way they function. And that way of functioning…that defines and maintains their existence… runs smack head-on into how she would rather things fuctioned.
A very sharp and useful mini-analysis, Bill, pointing to where Salmond falls short.
Yes, she falls short of taking the strong political position that her argument seems to be heading towards.
But some good conceptual background to leap from to take a totally new direction in politics.
Also, while she denounces binaries, there’s a bit of a catch-22 in that the polarities still function in society, relegating the least powerful terms to the bottom of the heap – Maori, low income etc. How do we get from here to a new relational position.
And I like your use of “societies” over networks. Networks are pretty one-dimensional and linear, and don’t really bring to the fore the dense interaction of multiple relationships that exist in and between societies.
Well, for a start I don’t think NZ as an entity moves to anything. But we are already members of numerous societies. And some of them present open spaces where new forms of governance can be trialed and developed. I’m not talking ‘big cheese’.
As an example, a ‘Coronation Hall’ near to me is in the throes of attracting community interest and establishing organisational structures for the community facilities it can make available. Traditionally the hall has been run by a typical old style committee and been fairly closed and distant from the community. But now there is an opportunity to introduce more participatory (non-heirarchical) modes of organising and managing. For the sake of argument, lets assume new ways are adopted and succesfully developed.
In and of itself it’s a ‘nothing’ in the scheme of things. But people will have been introduced to different and more empowering ways of going about things. And if and when those new ways become as habitual and natural to them as the old authoritarian and exclusive ways, then they will naturally introduce some of the facets of the ‘new’ and better ways to other things they are involved in…whether that be the local Pony Club or whatever…and then, hopefully, in time apply it to new business set ups (worker co-ops/collectives) or housing scenarios (housing collectives) .
In other words, over time and by osmosis, the ‘new’ ways could become the tradition. And the attraction or habit of appealing to or accepting the dictats of remote authority would wane and New Zealand become merely a name that designates a geographical area. And within that geographical area would exist a myriad of self governing, inter-related and highly democratic societies.
Low income… people on benefits for instance could form networks (sorry that word still works best for me) amongst themselves and solidarity with others (low income workers, Maori, Pacifica etc). It’s those relationships that change things. There is a still a need to challenge via the binary opposition IMO, but when that’s the dominant activity and the dominant story, it undermines the Order of Relations that Salmond is talking about. This is why challenging govt is important, but ultimately it’s what communities do within themselves that will generate meaningful and long term change.
Which is what Bill is saying I think.
You get to the relational way of organising, by practicing being relational.
I’d hazard a guess she isn’t calling it because she doesn’t want to put her foot in her mouth, and because calling it immediately puts us into the binary opposition she is advocating against: old hierarchical model vs new non-hierarchical model.
I think that people engaging in the relational models she talks about will change the structures themselves (assuming the absence of force from those wishing the status quo, which is a big assumption).
It’s a superb piece of writing, one that bears rereading and time for thinking.
“In the past year, HNZ has sold 15 properties in the city worth more than $700,000, generating $12.8 million.
A spokeswoman said HNZ had sold the houses as part of its policy to look at getting rid of properties worth more than $700,000 so it could reinvest in cheaper housing.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10827509
No space for state tenants in wealthy suburbs and last I knew John Key was stopping housing developments from going ahead – at least in his own electorate anyway.
It’s just one more step along the path to gated communities for the rich.
That wouldn’t be so bad, it’s pretty oppressive living among those with money, if there was any real evidence that the monies gained from the sales of these properties was actually being used to build more,
As Glen Innes shows what ‘renewal’ is code word for in the Slippery National Government is to take 150 houses off of those most in need and only make provision to replace half of them,
As with all of National’s changes in the delivery of social programs ALL of this is done under the auspices of ‘doing better for’, or, ‘helping’ the poor when the reality would give every appearance of being the usual State House sell off to those who are most likely to vote National…
Bizarre news item re U.S. policy about-turn
National Radio news, Saturday 18 August 2012, 9 a.m.
Just heard on the news that the U.S. government has condemned the Russian government for the jailing of Pussy Riot. Something about “free speech” and “democracy”. I missed the rest of it because of the gales of laughter and hoots of derision from a couple of my skeptically minded friends.
Is what I heard correct? Has the United States started to support the cause of free speech and democracy?
Or is it still, as usual, support for free speech and democracy in other countries?
Morrissey, indeed the stories will continue to flow freely from international “news” relay stations here in NZ.
The continued ramping up of rhetoric against Russia is painfully transparent
What is stupid little nonsense country the dumbed down have allowed NZ to become.
America Fcuk yeah!
My guess is that it’s solely free speech and democracy in other countries.
Strangely, muzza and Morrissey, I agree with you on this.
Morrissey, I agree with you on this.
This is a great moment! (Hugs Grumpy).
One dot at a time Grumps, they are interlinked, not the random acts/actions/events most want to believe.
Slow and steady is the best way, perhaps you get there, perhaps not, just don’t pull a hammy in the process, its not a race eh!
On ya
”Lately one or two have fully paid their due, i’m not working for the clampdown”-The Clash,
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/…/accountants-jailed-for-fraud
7 billion of it year in year out, money that is, gets ripped by the likes of the people in the stuff article, who, having businesses already have the ability to make millions, but, through greed rip the tax system off big-time,
Its not just some Bene dipping a toe in the trough where that Bene should have had a finger in a different pool, this is systematic THEFT from us all, everyone who pays every week through PAYE is being ripped off by these monied thieves and although this particular little piece of organized theft against the State has been closed down there’s still 7 billion dollars of it going on out there right now,
So m’bwana Shearer bossmun, in between marveling at how the really poor still have the energy to fight each other over the Mango skinned crumbs off of your table perhaps you might like to consider a little Accountant homily where you make it quite obvious that EVERYONE wearing a suit JUST MIGHT BE AN ACCOUNTANT ripping off the tax system to the tune of 7 billion dollars a year,
Please m’bwana bossmun Shearer don’t beat me massah boss,i aint done nothing wrong…
It just gets worse and worse for cheap purchasing:
And I’m sure that both this government and the management at Kiwirail won’t learn a damn thing.
I’m reliably informed that 8 of the first 50 DL’s have been cannibalised (temporarily at least) for parts to keep the rest going.
The Te Rapa workshop is swarming with Chinese techs trying to keep them going. There is no excuse for this whatsoever. There is nothing complicated about a diesel electric loco and they should have been delivered virtually perfect and reliable and a say a modern car from a top-end manufacturer.
A major change has occurred.
Fran O’Sullivan’s piece is one of a many pieces of evidence that it is now a matter of “WHEN” rather than “IF” Cunliffe takes over the leadership.
The sheer stupidity of the briefing to Garner by the faction has shifted the frame in which Cunlffe is viewed. The trite personal shallow stuff that has been repeadly rolled out by most journalists has lost all of its currency. No journalist will want to be seen to be blindly relaying drivel from the faction.
The debate has shifted to genuine policy positioning. The re-assessment of the last 30 years of economic and social “conventional wisdom” was overdue. Thank you Cunliffe.
That the much younger Cunliffe is so much more grounded, skilled and experienced than Shearer has also been glaringly highlighted. Shearers’s gauche and weak handling of the recent issues contrasts dramatically with Cunliffe’s studied calmness and focus under heavy fire.
The “WHEN” for Cunliffe and the vast majority of the Labour Membership cannot be thwarted by the faction and the proposed rules. The membership must make the Caucus respect it’s wishes. Get your amendments to the proposed rules into HO now.
Here was me sailing along in the bubble thinking all was well and i got transported,rudely i might add, by the link on a comment over on CV’s post giving Blubber-boy a tickle,
I am not sure whether the Pigani comments on Blubber -boy’s blog where deliberately placed there by one of the J. Pigani’s or if Blubber-boy has simply co-opted Her onto it by dint of not having a original thought, other than those provoked by the meds,but, no matter, that particular J.Pigani seems to have found the perfect spiritual home to match Her particular intellect, enough said,
Time for a bit of light hearted brevity lest you all read the Blubber-boy blog and become despondent, what do you achieve by genetically mixing the genes of a Whale and a Pig,
The same old Bullshit of course what did you really expect, enlightenment???
*Here’s the gospel according to J.Pigani, the welfare system is un-affordable, AND, this will not be addressed in any way by focusing our minds upon the 7 billion dollars a year lost to the Government revenue from Tax Fraud,
Nor it would seem will this supposed unaffordibility of the welfare system be addressed by us focusing our minds upon the appox: 7 billion dollars further lost to the Governments revenue from ‘legal’ tax avoidance, so says J.Pagani in shades of trying to emulate Ruth Richardson,
This could start getting a little looooong here as i am going to directly quote J.Pagani from Blubber-boys blog, bear with me tho there is a point,
”The reason for Labour getting into Government is not to defend welfare-or anything else-against reform”,
”It’s so reform can be done our way-fairly-,and, in a way that produces a decent outcome that provides a fulfilling future for everyone”, unquote.
Now J.Pagani, one or both of them, claims that they won’t comment on The Standard because (a)the J.Pigani’s might receive some abusive replies, and (b), laughably claims that those who disagree with the Post authors get banned for life, (hey where the fucks my life ban),
In reply i have to do just that, spit a little abuse, Bullshit, Bullshit,absolute f**king Bullshit, to presuppose as one of the J.Pigani’s does that ‘welfare’ is the problem is shortsighted rubbish put forward in my opinion with deliberation by this particular J.Pigani,
There is in fact nothing wrong with the ‘welfare system’ it is the economic system adhered to by successive Governments both Labour and National which ensures that there WILL NOT be enough employment in the economy so as to employ all those available to work that is at fault,
The ‘welfare system’ is not at fault one little iota, J.Pigani simply suggests without actually saying so that large numbers of beneficiaries are ‘hiding out’ on benefits thus avoiding work,
The reality is that the UNAVAILABILITY of work is what makes the numbers of those dependent upon welfare and the number of those AVAILABLE to work has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of work available,
If the J.Pigani’s want to ‘reform’ the welfare system they should first ‘reform’ the economic system which fails to provide the required levels of employment, reforming the latter will negate the need to reform the former…
Here’s some serious writing about Wikileaks, just for Overhead:
http://zunguzungu.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/julian-assange-and-the-computer-conspiracy-%E2%80%9Cto-destroy-this-invisible-government%E2%80%9D/
Desribes what Assange was actually up to. his strategy if you like. the leaks weren’t ends in and of themselves. It wasn’t about informing people as to what was going on, or at least, not just about that. The informing people was a welcome by-prosuct of the tactic od leaking secrets, and the leaking of secrets was a strategic move aimed at secrecy itself.
You should actually read this link Overhead. When the post first appeared Wikileaks linked to it repeatedly, saying that it nicely got some of what they were up to. the blogger followed up with more posts, all based on Assange’s essays, which I’m sure you’ve read.
Dame Anne Salmond – Hero of the week
Dame Anne Salmond’s article is a breath of fresh air of intelligent and professional writing that is all too often missing from our mainstream media…
+1 Totally agree. Carol also commented above. Definitely an article to ponder over.
A very good contrast Jackal
– the well-reasoned academic piece from Salmond drawing on research, statistics and an in-depth examination of significant ideas and philosophical traditions.
– then the superficial reasoning of O’Sullivan’s op ed piece that is more propaganda than analysis – arguing by analogy and association, using loaded adjectives in order to smear Cunliffe with ulterior motives and a red scare tactic.
Thought this might be useful all things considered. Thanks McFlock for posting the link the other day.
http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329057.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_crimes+act+_resel_25_h&p=1
Seeing as, should He ever be, wee Julian aint about to go on trial based upon that set of laws what relevance do they have to the debate….
Indeed.
But it is interesting that if the alleged facts are true, then by NZ standard it’s rape. Not “sex”. Not “not as bad as war so it’s not rape”. Not “oh but he did such nice things so it’s not rape”. Not “you’re black propagandists for the US hegemony so it’s not rape”. Not even “you’re just after feminist brownie points so it’s not rape”.
If the alleged facts are true, it’s rape. And people here are being disingenuous when they minimise it.
I didn’t post that because of Assange, I posted it because there appear to be people here on TS who don’t understand what rape is. A legal definition is a good place to start, although of course it doesn’t define rape in and of itself.
Plus what McFlock said.
You have to wonder don’t you at the intelligence,(lack of), inherent in the likes of Fran O’Sullivan who in today’s Herald tries to insult Labour’s David Cunliffe with the banner headline ”Cloth Cap Socialist”,
Round here the cloth cap is worn with honor, the ‘cloth cap Socialist’ is simply one that see’s the solution to the problems of economy as being easily addressed mostly through the simplest of solutions,
IF, Cunliffe is as O’Sullivan says a ‘cloth cap Socialist’ then He has my support,
PS: Fran the only reason we doff em, the cloth caps that is, is to get them outta the cross-fire as we Hoick a big one at you….
Interesting writing from O’Sullivan. She says that Shearer has had to stack his frontbench with lightweights unable to land hits on the Key Government, and she says that Cunliffe is damn capable – both professionally and in politics.
Do you think that O’Sullivan is trying to ‘do balanced journalism’, at one point She seems to be insinuating that Cunliffe is attempting to inflict a cunning charade upon the electorate by appearing to be ‘more left’ than He actually is,
Pity the Herald cannot find a truly ‘left’ journalist to provide ‘balance’ to the continuous stream of what gives every appearance of being produced from the mind of a schizophrenic that it presently fobs off on us all…
Yes, it’s curious on FOS’s part, that as well as disparaging him by associating a “cloth cap” with a “hidden agenda” to deviously seize power, but she also smears Cunliffe by comparing him with the Chinese politburo, and the disgraced Bo . Yet FOS has a recent record of talking up China as a great place to do business with, and seems to quite like the infamous Bo:
On Aug 11 2012, FOS wrote,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/fran-osullivan/news/article.cfm?a_id=13&objectid=10826130
Air New Zealand’s annual report is due out by the end of August and the signs do not look good. Air NZ is just one company dealing with the general malaise of the airline industry. Jet fuel now accounts for 35 percent of airline industry operating costs compared to 15 percent a decade ago. Jet fuel closely maps the price of crude. Petroleum deliveries are at their lowest point since September 2008, with the weakest July demand since 2005 and yet Brent crude prices are still sitting above $US116 per barrel. Oil prices would not have to raise much higher to create a US$5.3billion loss in 2012. The future of the global aviation industry is in big trouble.
“Being the most innovative airline company does not necessarily make you the most profitable. Air New Zealand announced a 71 percent earning slump in February 2012. As part of it’s recovery plan the company announced it was cutting 441 jobs. The airline blamed a decrease in passenger numbers as well as as fuel costs NZ$173 million more than forecast. This is despite the airline enjoying “a solid performance from the domestic network including benefits from the Rugby World Cup and improved market share on the Tasman” according to Air New Zealand chairman, John Palmer.
The outgoing chief executive Rob Fyfe says the price of jet fuel has doubled over the last three years and due to the weak global economy it has been difficult to pass on the higher costs to passengers.The inflation adjusted average price of jet fuel was US$3.04 per gallon for the six months to December 31st. Going off jet fuel prices alone it is unlikely the airline will see much of a turn around in profitability for 2012. In the first six months of 2012 the average price barely moved, up US$0.04 to $US3.08.”
http://www.southernlimitsnz.com/2012/08/running-on-empty-big-airlines-in-big.html
And the slow grinding, energy depletion driven, end of globalisation continues.
Paula Bennett should resign
What a complete fail for a Minister to not even be aware of (or not want to acknowledge) the information provided by her own ministry…
She shouldn’t need to resign – she should have been fired already.
“Your town does not owe you recreational facilites”
Actually, yes it does. Its called a ‘social contract’. The provision of community assets such as parks, sportsfields and libaries are provided in return for payment of rates and various other charges by the community.
Those who say ‘the world does not owe you a living’ completely disregard the social contract.
jcwept.
Not wanting to draw more fire, as an FYI, an exemplar of the complexity of dealing with laws in another country and language, and the complexity of dealing with human relationships…
Indeed.
But irrelevant, unless the translation from the Swedish for “asleep” could equally be “awake and willing”.
Again you argue from the charges back to the events. What Swedish laws say and means is more complex. You said yourself that you don’t speak Swedish. So here it is. For English speakers on the other side of the planet the actual charges have more nuance that the emphatic English language charges.
It also ignores the complex nature of gender politics in Sweden in which the sexual offence legislation being written. The prosecutor herself is of the opinion that a man/offender should be locked up first and questions asked later.
Brita Sundberg-Weitman, a Swedish lawyer, professor, retired judge and distinguished jurist, spoke of Sweden’s gender politics and the Assange case…..
I’m happy to leave the interpretation of Swedish law up to the Swedish courts.
I’m also happy with the concept that if he returns to Sweden, Assange should be detained in custody until the trial is completed. He is after all a repeated flight risk.
I’m also happy with the concept that the allegations against him are serious enough to be considered crimes here (as opposed to homosexuality, adultery, unprotected sex being illegal, etc).
So what’ your point?
Sure. As long as you aren’t counting the time he left Sweden with the full knowledge and permission of the Swedish authorities.
“Permission”? Being told that they have no power to detain you is not the same as “permission”.
If authorities replied “yes you may leave the country” then that’s permission. They certainly didn’t ask him to stay, did they. And, authorities were fully informed of Assange’s intentions to go. He didn’t leave the country hidden in a car boot did he?
Which is why the event should not be included in any assessment of his flight risk.
edit…man you should explain why you really have it in for this guy just so bad.
You can only give “permission” if you have the power to prevent something happening.
I don’t have it in for him. I just think he’s used every possible means to avoid a sexual assault investigation.
Assange was told by Swedish authorities that he was allowed to leave the country. If you like I can reword the sentence in the negative. Assange was told by Swedish authorities that there was no need for him to remain in Sweden.
Happier?
Regardless, given that Assange voluntarily stayed in Sweden for a full 2 weeks after investigations against him were reopened, then was told he was free to go, after which he left with the full knowledge of authorities, the event should not be counted against him as a flight risk.
Breaking his UK bail conditions certainly counts, but not that.
Option 3: We can’t stop you leaving. And of course the Swedish prosecutors were trying to arrange another interview via the same lawyer who had asked if they could stop him leaving the country.
But the point is strictly whether he’s a “serial done it before flight from detention” or simply a “done it before flight from detention”. Either ay, if he goes back to Sweden I’m cool with him being detained while on trial, if only to stop him fleeing the justice system again.
You sure you don’t have it in for Assange?
never met the guy.
But given his track record, I’m cool with him being held in custody until the end of the process. If he actually ends up in Sweden again.
If you are trying to work out if he’s a flight risk, then whether or not he had ‘permission’ is a bit beside the point.
The fact remains that he was under investigation, knew he was under investigation, and left the country and refused to return.
It’s certainly reasonable to assume from the fact that he didn’t return, that he left in order to avoid the investigation. Do you have another theory as to why he left sweden? If he did leave Sweden because of the investigation, then that is evidence for him being a flight risk. ‘Permission’ or not.
I agree with you all points except the last one. As the charges are written they do in fact constitute crimes here. No disagreement there. My point is that what is interpret as a sexual crime is harsher in Sweden and so a regular action that happens in the tumble of a sexual encounter can be written up in such damning terms that someone else would think “shit”.
So I guess my point is that :
Yes, as they are written the charges would also be a crime in NZ
BUT even though the charges sound so damning, the actions that would warrant such a charge in Sweden, may not do so here.
Of course, “sticking it in while she is asleep” sounds so serious (and it may well be if that is what happened) but given the state of the gender politics behind harsh Swedish laws its as Lord Cooke famously said, “In law, context is everything” Lord Cooke of Thorndon.
The reason I am continuing to debate is the ridiculous assertions of Weka and the continued emphatic assertions that there is an equivalence between the Swedish charges and what we would be charged with here. There isn’t.
How are the “harsh” Swedish charges more severe than NZ or UK rape charges?
Have you not been paying attention?
“My point is that what is interpret as a sexual crime is harsher in Sweden and so a regular action that happens in the tumble of a sexual encounter can be written up in such damning terms that someone else would think “shit”.”
I just thought that you must have mistyped, given that the allegations if true would constitute sexual assault and rape here and in the UK. Sweden – that’s what the Svea is for.
Also see Professor of English Law at the University of Oxford Andrew Ashworth making comparisons between Swedish law and English law.
http://justice4assange.com/Allegations.html
The charges in the EAW do not allow for discussion of whether Assange had mens rea (guilty intent) and whether he had a reasonable expectation that he had consent.
The charges, which appear damning, also hinge on such things as a definition of what constitutes “force” – what actions are “force” and what degree of “force” needs to be applied. Next time be careful when you part you partner’s legs because in Sweden the laws are are more strict about what constitutes force.
These are all things that will be discussed in court and not dealt with in the EAW.
So what’s your point?
Well, if you haven’t got it by now…..
*He withdraws from the battlefield to pour the first of what promises to be a number of glasses of wine*
*Turns the TV up to drown out the screams in suburbia as his beloved country is driven into the abyss*
Yeah, whatever dude. You seem to be arguing that we wouldn’t necessarily regard the actions as rape, and that it’s persecution by feminist extremists.
Whereas Morrissey thinks it’s all the fault of the CIA.
Whereas Morrissey thinks it’s all the fault of the CIA.
No I don’t. That’s another dishonest statement from you.
ooo I must be a black propagandist…
You could always play the Chompsky card.
Just link to him mentioning propaganda in any context, and that’s it.
Link to Chompsky–> point proven.
Doesn’t matter what the point is at all. Just link–>win.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10827742
So the only question is when will Cunliffe make his move or will he be beaten to the punch by the evem more arrogant and lazy Grant Robertson
Having briefly seen the beginnings of a discussion about Pussy Riot on Friday’s Open Mike, I when read this –
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32225.htm
Very interesting!