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Open mike 20/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 20th, 2013 - 190 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

190 comments on “Open mike 20/06/2013”

  1. Jenny 1

    Want to keep up with the latest developments relating to climate change?

    Or just uncertain of the facts and want to know more?

    Then check out the Daily Climate News. You couldn’t go far past dailyclimate.org as a good simple factual resource. Here gathered in one place, are climate related news stories from around the globe.

    The lead story today is about the phenomenon known as ‘weather whiplash’ hitting farming in the US.

    AS DROUGHT TURNS TO FLOOD, FARMERS GET “WEATHER WHIPLASH”

    Many New Zealand farmers currently suffering flooding after an unprecedented drought could relate.

    Other lead stories

    How British farmers have been badly effected by changes in weather patterns.

    UK FARMERS FAIL TO FEED NATION AFTER EXTREME WEATHER HITS WHEAT CROP

    The wettest autumn since records began, followed by the coldest spring in 50 years, has devastated British wheat, forcing food manufacturers to import nearly 2.5m tonnes of the crop.

    “Normally we export around 2.5m tonnes of wheat but this year we expect to have to import 2.5m tonnes,”

    Charlotte Garbutt UK Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board analyst

    But it is not all bad news. There is some good news, and some mixed news.

    First the good news:

    Emission cuts lead to cleaner California air


    In a marriage that replaces coal, natural gas and renewable energy will power the future Texas grid

    Renewables growth shifts to developing nations

    Now the mixed news:

    Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced yesterday a $19.5 billion plan to defend New York City against rising seas and severe storms

    ….as the time when we could prevent dangerous climate change slips away, the time for costly investments to protect ourselves has arrived.

    Tim Folger National Geographic

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Relating to OM yesterday. Your inability to see the super power proxy war unfolding in Syria, or the fact that there is no popular uprising (except possibly in your own mind) because the majority of the fighters in the conflict are imported mercenaries and jihadists, undermines any humanitarian point you have tried to make.

      Do you know what you have in common with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz? You’re a supporter of regime change through foreign military force. These are intentions that General Wesley Clark revealed years ago, after he left the military.

      And please don’t try and threaten my Labour Party membership. I’ve had a number of MPs make the attempt, and to you I will also say, fuck off.

      • Jokerman 1.1.1

        tsk tsk. trouble in the sandbox. :-D

      • Jenny 1.1.2

        And please don’t try and threaten my Labour Party membership. I’ve had a number of MPs make the attempt, and to you I will also say, fuck off.

        Colonial Viper

        CV the only one threatening your Labour Party membership is yourself. No self respecting democratic party can be seen to tolerate an intemperate extremist who openly supports mass murder.

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1

          You still telling other political parties what they should be doing?

          You still support the foreign sponsored military overthrow of Assad, you support mass murder, feel that itch in your conscience? Those are the heavy weapons that the west are now openly supplying to foreign Islamist fighters in Syria.

          Here is a list of the different Islamist groups now fighting in Assad. To be clear: these are the people you are supporting, Jenny.

          The Syrian Islamic Front (SIF)
          AFFILIATES: Islamic Ahrar al-Sham Movement

          The Free Syrian Army:
          Affiliated fighters Many different claims. Most recently, in June 2013, Idriss claimed he is the leader of 80,000 fighters
          AFFILIATES Syria Martyrs Brigades, Farouq Battalions, Tawhid Brigade, Suqour al-Sham Brigades and Islam Brigade

          The Syrian Islamic Liberation Front (SILF)
          AFFILIATES Farouq Battalions, Tawhid Brigade, Suqour al-Sham Brigades and Islam Brigade

          MILITANT FACTIONS

          Farouq Battalions
          Leader Osama Juneidi
          Affiliation SILF, FSA

          Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic state of Iraq
          Affiliation al-Qa’ida

          Islamic Ahrar al-Sham Movement
          Leader Abu Abdullah al-Hamawi
          Affiliation SIF

          Syria Martyrs’ Brigades
          Affiliation FSA

          YPG – Popular Protection Units
          Spokesperson Khebat Ibrahim
          Affilation Supreme Kurdish Committee, PKK

          Islam Brigade
          Affiliation SILF, FSA

          Tawhid Brigade
          Affiliation SILF, FSA

          Suqour al-Sham Brigades
          Leader Ahmed Eissa al-Sheikh
          Affiliation SILF, FSA

          http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/freedom-fighters-cannibals-the-truth-about-syrias-rebels-8662618.html

          • Poission 1.1.2.1.1

            Those are the heavy weapons that the west are now openly supplying to foreign Islamist fighters in Syria.

            3500 tons of armaments,brought from Croatia,.

            the Kerry /haig beatup for a no fly zone lasted about 5 minutes at the G8 when the Russians told them what their expected losses would be.A point emphasized by the US chief of staff,who stated that a no fly zone would require neutralizing a fully integrated state of the art air defense system and in addition the US did not have the economic capability due to sequestration (read funding cuts) hence it would require dual house approvals.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.1.1

              3500 tons of armaments,brought from Croatia,.

              Jenny, being a warmonger, will be well pleased.

              As I just commented, it seems that the US (global) financial situation may be about to get much worse. Very pleased to be in NZ.

              • Jenny

                Only people who don’t know how lucky they are to be in a democracy.
                can justify the use of massive violence to deny it to others.

          • Jenny 1.1.2.1.2

            So most of the names of the organisations you have supplied CV care of the Independent, have titles that include the words Islamic or Islam. So what?

            I support a people’s right to overthrow a monstrous dictatorship.

            While you CV are more and more revealing yourself as an ignorant Islamaphobe who supports a regime that uses torture and bombardment from the air against civilian populations who have rejected the dictatorship.

            You are an Islamaphobe who admires a murderous dictator with a fashionable wife, because he has been publicly feted and admired by useful idiots in the West for being “Secular” and “Progressive“. While in private more valued by the West for providing a safe haven for torture for the shadowy CIA rendition program, As well as keeping Israel’s Northern Border trouble free.

            So why in your opinion CV is “Islamic” in a rebel organisations name, enough to discredit them in your eyes?

            Around the world where all other means of popular expression has been suppressed, people have turned to religious faiths and organisations and charities that not only provide succor for a besieged people, but also give a space to give voice to their hopes and dreams for a better life.

            IMHO, Mainly because such organisations are the only ones that can still operate under the harsh conditions of dictatorship.

            In most of the Arab world, which until recently due to the Arab Spring has been overwhelmingly dominated by pro-Western despots who banned all political meetings. Friday prayers were the natural place where people could gather in large numbers without interference or attack from their various regimes. And so space was gained for the birth of Arab Spring under conditions of harsh repressive dictatorship in which all other means of popular expression were violently suppressed.

            For instance the rise of Hamas in Palestine occurred mainly through their welfare charity and health provision when all secular organisations had either failed or become corrupted or infiltrated.

          • Jenny 1.1.2.1.3

            You still telling other political parties what they should be doing?

            Colonial Viper

            Not at all CV. Just pointing out to one of them, and the rest of the country that they harbour an admirer of a fascist style regime in their ranks.

            It is up to the Labour Party if they are happy to tolerate supporters of mass murder and torture in their ranks. If the Labour Party are happy with this situation, then they will have to judged by it.

  2. Strategos 2

    It seems to me that the next national election campaign has already started.

    Key has been repeating the theme that NZ Labour is a radical left party, not fit to be trusted with the Treasury benches.

    Repetition is a powerful rhetorical tool, akin to conditioning.

    He would not be doing so on his own. It is probable that the National strategy
    committee [Collins, Lusk, Joyce, Textor, Crosby .. ad nauseam] has decided on
    a long term strategy of a long march through the swamps of electoral politics to
    set the stage and control the parameters of the campaign.

    We will probably soon have other National parliamentarians echoing the theme.

    Winston is onto it

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8810045/Key-puts-boot-into-Opposition

    .. so is Mad Max

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10130073/American-Mad-Max-angers-Australians.html

    • Jokerman 2.1

      Winston The Toe-Cutter.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.2

      It seems to me that the next national election campaign has already started.

      Yep, there was a reason why the previous government set the election period as from Jan of the year of the election and it’s the same reason why National dropped it as soon as they got power – because the electioneering happens throughout the entire year. Some academics think that electioneering never stops.

  3. CC 4

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10891752. Can it get much worse? Kids starving while shyster politicians and their hired help pay spin doctors to avoid democratic transparency.

  4. Socialist Paddy 5

    I see that some within Labour are proposing that Clayton Cosgrove is selected as its candidate for the Christchurch East by election. The thinking is that this will shore up support for Shearer as it will bring into Parliament Kelvin Davis who is said to be a Shearer supporter.

    Can I suggest an alternative thinking, that Labour selects the best possible candidate for the job. This person should preferably be a local of have strong links to the area. They should be capable of doing the job, of helping local people with their problems and of holding the Government to account for the shyte situation it has created in Christchurch. They should also have the judgment to not do stupid stuff like accepting free beer and food in a Sky City Corporate Box.

    I do not give a toss who they support for the leadership. In fact if they are selected for loyalty reasons rather than on ability there is something seriously wrong.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8817400/Cosgrove-not-flavour-of-the-moment

    • David H 5.1

      So in other words. No one in the current crop?

    • karol 5.2

      *sigh* How much longer is the wider left going to be subjected to the weakening impacts of the self-serving shenanigans of the current inadequate Labour caucus leadership? It’s thoroughly depressing.

      • Socialist Paddy 5.2.1

        And it is so self serving. At the time that all focus should be on Dalziel’s bid for the mayoralty we are talking instead about internal shyte. Dalziel should be given some clean air to get her campaign going. For Christchurch’s sake it is vital that she beats Mr Lego Clown.

        • Jokerman 5.2.1.1

          Excellent to see Lianne has the backing of Vicky Buck, Sam Johnston and possibly Garry Moore?

          • Te Reo Putake 5.2.1.1.1

            Definitely Gary Moore! He was on RNZ this morning promoting her big time.

            • Jokerman 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Amen to that; time for Bob to park up. Never been a touch on Moore and Buck.

      • Saarbo 5.2.2

        Agree Karol, if this is true. Very depressing if members of the Labour caucus continue to feel it is necessary to play this game and continue to sure up David Shearer’s position. If true it certainly lowers my opinion of Davis, I didn’t think he was too bad. Difficult to respect someone that backs Shearer.

        Maybe Shearer can terrorise opponents in Chch East by-election as well, really working well in Ikaroa-Rawhiti!

    • tracey 5.3

      Stop making sense

    • tc 5.4

      Noble idea SP but cannot see it happening, based on some of the candidates that ran in 2011 its looking like a members only club which excludes and discourages talented committeid folk who can conribute.

  5. David H 6

    “Labour has signalled it will drop at least three of its economic policies, although more for reasons of fiscal restraint than unpopularity: paying into the Cullen super fund before the country returns to surplus, removing GST from fruit and vegetables and making the first $5000 of income tax-free.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10891744

    Now it may not be much but 5k tax free would make a difference to the poorest or the poor, but now I see that Labour are starting to show their true light blue colours, fiscal restraint my arse, they are just trying to pull in the blue center vote and to hell with the poor typical Shearer shit! And how much, has the NOT putting in to the Cullen Fund cost us? And if you are really poor even the Gestapo Tax off of the Greenery would be a help.

    Just makes my decision to vote Green this time even more correct. I will not vote for a Haters party, and Labour has become a haters party under the mismanagement of Shearer Mallard King Robertson Hipkins and the Rest,

    • tracey 6.1

      Basically the main policies which differentiate them from National as giving a fuck about low income folks.

      I can’t see myself voting for them either.

      And if quantitative easing is good enough for the UK and the USA then it’s good enough for Norman…

      He needs to start calling Key on his “funny money” jibes and asking if he said that when last speaking to US or UK government officials or ministers.

      • DavidC 6.1.1

        Yeah but the problem with that is Key understands money and its place in the world (as opposed to how you lot would like money to work in a utopian fantasy world) and the good Ginga Dr has no fucking idea at all.

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

          You speak of a “utopian fantasy world of money”

          The Primary Dealers can access billions in newly created money from the Federal Reserve at a less than 0% real interest rate.

          I think it’s this current system which is the unsustainable, utopian fantasy (for the elite).

          and the good Ginga Dr has no fucking idea at all.

          Russel Norman has got a very good grip on the problems we face today. On the other hand, you should stop listening to the shit heads who are actually responsible for the GFC and the subsequent Great Recession, and who in the main, are still in charge pretending they know what they are doing.

    • Adrian 6.2

      David H, You have highlighted a quote attributed to Labour which is in fact shit made up by Audrey Young. Where have you heard or seen anyone from Labour actually ” signal ” such a thing ?. Young, Armstrong et al are part of the Nat disinformation and ” left wing ” denigration campaign which is only given credence by repetition on Labour/Green associated forums. You are playing their game for them.
      It strikes me that you and your ilk do not want a left Government because you are only happy constantly complaining and bitching.

      • Belladonna 6.2.1

        We complain and bitch because we DO want a left government.

        • Adrian 6.2.1.1

          You’re not going to get one if you keep repeating their made up shit and I repeat playing their game for them. The All Blacks ( and all great teams ) are at their best and unbeatable ( Chch last Sat ) when they get the other team to play the way they want. Simple, it’s the first rule of warfare.
          Get out and do some bloody work, doorknocking and phone calling and stop being so fucking negative.

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.1.1

            I doubt that Audrey is simply day dreaming those policy changes. She meets Labour front bench MPs on a weekly basis.

            As for door knocking for Labour…which I have done a lot of…I’ve decided that I don’t door knock for centrist parties. Not where my political leanings are.

            I will be very frustrated if Labour drop the income tax free zone. It simply means that they are not willing to significantly raise taxes on those earning higher incomes.

            • Rosetinted 6.2.1.1.1.1

              CV
              I can see that it would be useful to have all in the taxation system with all contributing something. But if the first $20,000 on wages was at 5% it would be fairer. The government gets extra tax from GST on the spending of the net income.

              That’s what should happen for low income people now the GST has been introduced. And it should be brought down to 10% again. It’s a burden on the spending on necessities, which can include expensive items like frig’s, maintenance on houses and vehicles. It just loads expense on the low income sector which has the biggest bit of the pie chart – the only place where their pie portion is large.

              Then decent progressive steps. This country has overused the excuse of simplicity of tax structure which is a lazy approach in this age that has moved on from individual clerks penning everything and working from printed tables to fast calculators and automation. Income tax needs to move on to systems that provide subsidies for transport, allowances for tools, and more tax steps that are inflation indexed.

              • Colonial Viper

                In general I very much agree. Whether everyone needs to be paying income tax is worth a discussion. People paying income tax on their UB which is so low already…what’s the point.

                But in general terms yes the tax system has to become far more progressive, and also far simpler to administer with Far fewer gaps for avoidance.

            • DavidC 6.2.1.1.1.2

              CV…but the war will be won in the center as always? you disagree?

          • gobsmacked 6.2.1.1.2

            I don’t know about the third policy David H mentions (the $5000) but the other two (GST and Cullen Fund) have both been publicly mentioned by Shearer/Parker. The Cullen fund was in Shearer’s speeches over a year ago.

            Just calling Labour voters gullible tools of the MSM really doesn’t work. Nor does blaming people for not door-knocking in the cold on behalf of the warm corporate box. Clearly some Labour MPs don’t need less criticism, they need more, until they get it.

            • McFlock 6.2.1.1.2.1

              Where did Shearer or anyone in labour say they would drop the Cullen fund payments before surplus? Or drop any of the other policies mentioned?

              • gobsmacked

                It’s a really tiresome ploy to ask questions you don’t want the answer to. Pretending to want information, but actually just being contrary for the sake of it.

                If you did genuinely want the answer, you could simply Google “david shearer speech cullen fund”. It would save us both time.

                Read first search result. And many more.

                • McFlock

                  actually, fair call on that one about google. Bit busy today though, and it didn’t ring any bells.

                  But I did actually want the answer, that’s why I asked the question.

                  The Cullen fund thing according to DTB’s links is not ” drop [ing ...] paying into the Cullen super fund before the country returns to surplus”. It is “until we are back in surplus, any new spending will have to be paid for out of existing budget provisions, new revenue, or by re-prioritising.” Note the “new revenue” and “re-prioritising”. Lots of room there, like a CGT or higher tax band counting as “new revenue”. But definitely reporters are “interpreting” what is said, rather than quoting.

                  And the vege thing is simply a long way down the list at this stage. Depends on what the policy committee comes up with. And given that they’ll need the Greens to be in government, it would be difficult for Labour to refuse to do it should the Greens ask, it being recent policy and all.

      • David H 6.2.2

        Then let me put it this way Adrian. I have voted Labour ever since I was able to vote. I have helped by door knocking, driving people to vote, and in the other 1001 ways the volunteers help out. This time I will vote Green. I am so disappointed with the direction the party has taken, and the list of screw ups are getting longer by the day, so there is a leadership problem there, the absolute debacle that was the Paddy Gower Chris Hipkins hate Cunlife day live on TV3, turned me right off of Labour there and then. And nothing they have done since leads me to believe they will change. It seems to me that Labour are completely at war within the Party hierarchy and they don’t give a rats arse about the voters it’s more about hanging onto the pay packet. So if you want my vote then you have policy that will help those that are less well of that will help the Children and will put work to get jobs out there. Now for the last 40 years every time Labour has won I have been in full time well paid employment. I lose said employment under National as any extra money is gone. This time if labour get in I fear I will have no such employment as they don’t seem to have a clue I would not trust their front bench as far as I could spit against the wind.

  6. Dv 7

    Re Dunne and GCSB reports
    Apparently 2 reports could not been “found”

    One with an unnamed minister
    AND

    One with the department of the PM that WAS shredded.

    That seems very odd as the report was going to be released any way.

    Really weird.

    • tracey 7.1

      “One with the department of the PM ”

      The largest employment growth area in government (by percentage) is this department. Maybe we should just start calling it the Central Committee of the Dictatorship

      “A government controlled by one person, or a small group of people. In this form of government the power rests entirely on the person or group of people. The dictator(s) may also take away much of its peoples’ freedom. In contemporary usage, dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state.

      Changing those laws is the first step in being unrestricted by laws. Undermining the power of the Judiciary is also key (no pun intended).

      If calling Labour’s last rule “helengrad” was an acceptable epithet (and it was used by mainstream journalists including John Armstrong) then why such horror if we start to call this government “the Dictatorship”?

  7. David H 8

    Peter Dunne wants the rules changed so that he can keep 100′s of thousands in party cash. How long has UF been duping the electoral commission re the numbers they really have in their party?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10891755

    “Please please let me keep my nose in the trough really deeply, please don’t pull me back to the edge where I only get a little.”

    With everything he has been caught out doing, he still demands things to be as they were, even tho’ he has Leaked sensitive docs (thanks for that Pete) has NO party but still wants the money (no thanks Pete)

    • tracey 8.1

      Yesterday he said they had enough members to form 4 parties. He also said it was their largest membership in a long time. 2000? That’s as many people who put their hand in their pocket for this party? I am a MMP fan but guys like this and Banks are taking the piss.

      • bad12 8.1.1

        On RadioNZ National this morning ‘the Hairdo’ backed down from His claim of having 2000 members calling that claim a slight over estimation,

        Apparently the Hairodo’s party has 1000 members via electronic medium which the Electoral Commission will not accept for the purpose of registering United Future as a party,

        Dunne today will have a discussion with the Speaker of the House who would in a sane world where there wasn’t being operated a protection racket for errant Ministers and MP’s withdraw the ‘Leaders’ funding for the non-existent United Future party but don’t hold your breath,

        Dunnes legacy when He finally ceases supping at the trough will be to have been the ‘black hole in space’ of New Zealand politics having sucked in every fledgling ‘movement’ and political party from christians to hunters’n’fishers whereupon anything such may have stood for has disappeared immediately from the political sphere…

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2

      Actually, I/S has an interesting post and makes a good point on that:

      Because in 2002, Parliament passed the Electronic Transactions Act 2002, the thrust of which is basically “electronic stuff counts”.

      So basically the Electoral Commission could accept electronic membership records; they just choose not to. And that choice appears to be contrary to S 8 of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.

      It seems that it may be the electoral commission that’s breaking the law.

      • karol 8.2.1

        Actually, I understood that the electoral commission now say they will accept electronic records. But the stuff originally submitted electronically was just a spreadsheet of names “not supported by any signed and dated evidence from members”. This was judged to be inadequate. They want signed and dated forms and will accept those that have been submitted to the party electronically.

      • McFlock 8.2.2

        Not sure about that – looking at the Herald article, apparently the EC is cool with electronic, but wants the members signatures (basically scans of the forms). UF just wanted to give them an excel spreadsheet of the membership details (my guess is no signatures).

        The real problem for Dunne is that the EC claims no facility to “reregister” parties, so UF comes under as a new registration and he loses his party leadership $$$ because a new parliamentary party needs 6 MPs.

        heh, heh, heh

        edit: snap karol – that’ll teach me to have a work chat halfway through writing a comment :)

    • Raa 9.1

      So David Cameron and Lynton Crosby have set out to destroy the Labour Party ?

      “The Prime Minister insisted, when challenged on this point, that he is only interested in learning one thing from Mr Crosby: “How we destroy the credibility of the Labour Party.” Mr Cameron added that this was a subject in which Mr Crosby has “considerable expertise”, but is something Labour is even better at doing for itself.

      One might add that this is also a subject in which Mr Cameron has considerable expertise. On leaving Oxford, he went straight into the Conservative Research Department, where he mastered the technique of making a close study of Labour policy in order to demonstrate, with the help of quotation, that it is riven by fatal contradictions.

      So what we get nowadays at Prime Minister’s questions is a perpetual assault by Mr Cameron on the Labour Party, of a kind which a gifted desk officer in the Conservative Research Department of the late 1980s might make. It is a professional performance, but also a rather mean-spirited and constricted one.”

      .. and a role model for John Key and the National Party front bench from which Aaron Gilmore took his cue.

      • Rosetinted 9.1.1

        Raa
        That’s all interesting – especially the bit about David Cameron doing a virtual PhD on the anomalies of the Labour Party. Is that on google under David Cameron? Have you a link?

        • Raa 9.1.1.1

          I was commenting on Guava’s link above .. but I don’t think
          John Key can match Cameron’s performance in this respect
          because he has not put in the effort, love him or hate him, which Cameron has.

  8. Pasupial 10

    I’m not big on crime news stories, they always feel a bit manipulative, but this:

    “A nun has admitted breaking the arm of a 9-year-old at Sunday School after the girl failed to get an action song right.
    Leva-i-Fangalupe Fono – known as Sister Leva – yelled at the girl, flicked her in the head and broke the girl’s arm when she twisted it behind her back. ”
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/261704/nun-admits-breaking-girls-arm

    This just feels wrong on every level! Breaking a nine-year old’s arm at Sunday School – even if she had been playing up that would have been grossly inappropriate, but for getting a song wrong?

    I know the Catholics already have semi-public schools, but I see this as a taste of things to come if religious groups get to run Charter Schools away from the public eye. What would Destiny thugs do to a kid who blew one of Bishop(/ Messiah) Tamaki’s photo ops?

    • bad12 10.1

      I don’t want to be a catholic boy,
      i just want to have some fun,
      i don’t want to be a catholic boy
      and get beaten by the nun…

    • Rosetinted 10.2

      Pasupial
      The buzz word these days is to be ‘passionate’ about what you do. Could this be the ultimate effect – Ultimate Passion Fighting? The Army manages to lose a few of its trainees now and then which apparently is collateral damage when looking at the overall objective. I guess when you want to produce successful stats and stars that illuminate your education organisation positively, what’s a few broken arms while trying to control the poor material you are working with? /sarc

      I was watching The Wire and a white teacher without street experience trying to teach the belligerent, negative, malicious and troubled young people from a very depressed area. One girl suddenly slashed the face of another with a razor in a recent view. The teachers and school leaders are now trying a new approach and mentally dividing the children into those from the stoops, and those from the corners. This indicates two different types of response by the youngsters to their education and each will be met by a shaped method that responds to the way that group behaves. The idea is that each group should be taught in a way that specially meets their approach so they can be controlled and led into education with their minds readied to concentrate, and not just to think up playing disruptive games with the teacher.

  9. Rosetinted 11

    There is an interview on 9toNoon this morning that would be good for all interested in NZ employment and smart business providing it to listen to. It’s about Lego’s rise and fall and scramble to rise again and keep selling and coping with low cost labour competition. We need to follow similar trajectory in trying to scramble out of our low operating economy using our wits not reverting to reliance on primary and extractive industries till we have metaphorically chopped all the kauri trees.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/presenters/kathryn-ryan (audio available probably after 11am if you miss it live).
    10:05 Professor David Robertson – the story behind Lego
    Why the iconic Danish company faced near collapse in 2003, and how it managed to recover and become one of the world’s biggest toy companies, and what this turnaround can teach other companies about surviving and thriving. Professor Robertson teaches Innovation and Product Development at Wharton Business School at the University of Pennsylvania.

    Brick by Brick: How LEGO Rewrote the Rules of Innovation and Conquered the Global Toy Industry

  10. JC 12

    It appears that Wellington mayoral contender and long-time rubbish batsman John Morrison has been plagiarising the council’s chief executive for his own puff-piece in last week’s Dom Post:

    http://wccwatch.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/morrison-caught-out/
    http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=56433

    What an idiot. Also: Jack Yan just tweeted “I guess that’s what happens when you don’t have any of your own policies.”

    The Right must be genuinely desperate to have put up this clown as a serious mayoral contender.

    • Jokerman 12.1

      On the topics of Wellington
      -the Wellington Regional Transport Committee; Fran Wilde-go with buses. Celia Wade-Brown-light rail. Light-rail in Wellington?
      and the ‘comfortable” response to begging in the streets? Charity-boxes to fund charity organizations!ffs, there is that ‘deserving” of the corralled poor.

  11. ANTI-GE PUBLIC MEETING TONIGHT!

    Thursday 20 June 2013, 7.15pm – 9.30pm

    See you there? :)
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    https://www.facebook.com/events/662356430445771/

    “The Hillsborough Room at The Fickling Centre. Cnr of Mt Eden and Mt Albert Rd, (behind 3 Kings Shops in rear of car park and opposite Club Physical) Plenty of parking and on a bus route.

    After the enthusiasm of the March Against Monsanto come and find what is happening in NZ and Australia on the GE front?

    Australian farmer Bob Mackley and Green Party MP Steffan Browning are visiting to tell you about the impact of an Australian GE crop contamination; and what is happening around GE in New Zealand.

    Bob Mackley is speaking about the contamination of his farm by genetically engineered crops.
    Come and hear about his experience.
    (I heard him last year and he is very knowledgeable and interesting.)

    Bob Mackley is a canola farmer in Victoria. He is a strong community figure; a past District Council Chairman and a member of the Victorian Farmers Federation.

    He has experience as a convener of a grain marketing group formed to empower local small farmers to get their crops to market, and is past president of the Wimmera Conservation Farming Association.

    His crops were contaminated by his neighbour’s GE canola and he is very concerned about the impact of this on his business. He is also concerned about the divisive effect the introduction of GE crops has had on community relationships.

    Steffan Browning is working very hard on our behalf to keep NZ GE free. I am delighted to be running this meeting for him.

    He will speak about our position in New Zealand and what is happening, not only about keeping crops out of the environment, but about how the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) and Food Standards (FSANZ) is approving GE food for release here, even before it has been approved by the US!

    Here is some news just released by Steffan about the food bill:
    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/green-party-celebrates-changes-food-bill

    Please bring along as many people as you can. The more people who really understand about GE the sooner the movement will grow to ensure it is kept out of our environment.”

    (Lisa Er from the ‘Awareness Party’ has helped to organise this meeting.)

    • Draco T Bastard 13.1

      Life in the Rural Police State of Monsanto

      In a now legendary incident, Schmeiser’s fields were contaminated by seeds from a neighbor’s genetically modified Roundup Ready canola plants, which had blown onto his land. When the farmer, who was the subject of the 2009 film “David Versus Monsanto,” saved the seeds from these “accidental migrants” for replanting, Monsanto sued him for patent infringement and won the case but received no damages, since the court determined that Schmeiser had gained no economic benefit from the incident. Later Schmeiser countersued Monsanto for “libel, trespass, and contamination of his fields with Roundup Ready Canola.” But that case was dismissed.
      Schmeiser, who reportedly spent more than $400,000 on legal fees, says he can no longer use his strain of canola, which took him 50 years to develop, because he cannot prove that it doesn’t include the Roundup Ready gene.

      Stopping GE seems like a good idea to me because it would stop shit like this happening. The rest of the article is a must read as it covers how Monsanto are raking in the dollars from lawsuits. IMO, Patents are past their use-by dates and are now a very good example of law gone wrong.

      • Jokerman 13.1.1

        off the subject of suits, was watching Bill O’Reilly on Letterman last night (now there is a program that indicates the States of America…) opined that Snowden could have sued the govt. and that he is likely to get a “ten-stretch”.

      • NickS 13.1.2

        It’s more a case of updating patent laws to deal with the implications of GE.

        Especially as in the past farmers would have been able to keep seed without threat of legal action, from commercially developed crop lines that usually take even longer than GE techniques to breed and oft used mutagenic methods to generate novel variations. Thus I see a problematic legal contradiction in giving GMO’s patent protection, as frankly, unless you’re making a whole new species, all it is, is a much faster and direct method of adding desired genetic variation to an organism.

        *cough*

        Anyhow – from actually having done considerable amounts of course work (BSc is in Molecular Biology, so biochemistry and genetics Nick knowth) and regular readings in the years since, the main issues with GMO’s biologically speaking are thus:

        1) What changes occur in the global regulation of genes for the GMO vs the parent strain and do we understand if the differences have negative consequences in context of ecological relationships and human usage? Case in point – Monsanto removed the selectivity filter from 3 of the bt toxin proteins, which means those bt toxins now worked on insect species that they previously worked on. While global changes in gene expression vs parent may lead to other issues, that are more difficult to pin down if functions/context of specific genes is unknown.

        2) Are their any significant biochemical changes to the introduced protein products? i.e. proteins are often modified post-translation with phosphate groups and/or sugar polymers (branching and linear). Especially if the the RNA they are derived on is tagged for export to the cell membrane or excretion into the extracellular environment. These can cause changes in protein function, dependant on the protein’s sequence and 3d structure + any binding substrates or allosteric moderators. Addition of sugar polymers can also cause immunological reactions in humans if the immune system of the individual carries antibodies against a matching sugar polymer.

        3) Is gene flow to wild species possible? i.e. can the GMO reproduce with any relatives, where mating systems allow for it? In the case of some plant families, the historical species barriers were geographic isolation, rather than via incompatibilities. Which means that you need to be very, very careful in developing plant GMO’s to insure that genes for herbicide resistances or bt toxins do not leak into wild or weedy relatives. Basically – plants can be really, really “fun” when it comes to dealing with hybrids due to quirks of their sexual reproduction and are prone to all sorts of weird stuff (polyploidy being the main one) that can create means for genes to flow from crops to weeds and vis versa.

        As to GE in generally – it’s an extremely useful tool, we use it daily for producing a wide variety of biological products and can be used to rapidly introduce phenotypes that otherwise would take very large numbers of generations to find and select for. For example, we use GE yeast and other fungi to produce stuff like insulin, human growth factor and rennet enzymes, along with other proteins (antibodies for example), that would otherwise be harvested from animals or humans. Allowing for high levels of purity and avoids carrying over viral diseases.

        References: spread all through out 2 years of biochem and genetics notes ;-; Probably a bit straightforward to find via google scholar though, aiming for review articles, but suspect key papers stuck behind paywalls…

  12. Colonial Viper 14

    UK union leader loses plot

    The leader of one of Labour’s biggest union backers has been accused of making a “spiteful” attack on the Duchess of Cambridge after comparing her to “young women having babies to get state handouts”.

    This buys into right wing framing, loses votes on the Left, and loses votes on the Right, it’s just stupid.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10128822/Unison-leader-Dave-Prentis-Labour-should-not-fall-into-trap-of-Coalition-with-Liberal-Democrats.html

    • Olwyn 14.1

      I read it and disagree: by my reading, he was sending up the right wing framing, not feeding into it. He described the bedroom tax as vile and vicious, and also said:

      “We must not support a Labour Government that does not: put an end to privatisation and market madness or restore our NHS- invest in our public services, restore the facility time taken away from our activists, restore workers rights and remove the shackles on trade unions.”

      These are not the words of someone buying into right wing framing.

  13. Jokerman 15

    Aus deports NZ offenders in record numbers
    The Taliban are back.
    Brazil’s increasing middle-classes represented in protests; we can only hope and pray.

  14. Jokerman 16

    THE VOTE:

    Moot-it is parenting, held.

    Rankin- “a parenting crisis”
    Clark- “both matter”
    Rankin- went straight to “dysfunctional families”
    Wills- “poverty rate triple that when we were kids (I quote ‘kids’ reluctantly, another weakness in the national discourse)”
    -”poverty of children triple that of the elderly”
    -”outgoings too high”
    Rankin- believes “that life skills overcome poverty”.
    McCroskie- straight to stereo-typing the PI -”money going back to the islands, loan sharks, poverty”.
    Lashlie- “poverty is less than 15K…issues are not at arm’s length like they are for the middle classes and above”.

    410 Notifications to CYFS a day.”a bleakness of life” (check your privilage ‘pete’)

    McCroskie- concedes ” money is a factor” and that ” poorer areas ARE targeted by the liquor and pokie industries”.

    Tamaki (had to have a stiff pipe to watch that) -”hey, in a cold house you can still cuddle a child”
    “I’m a… I’m a ….I’m a …sensational mother and grandmother” (who clearly has never heard the sweet voice of Jesus in her, MY MY MY , ear).

    Hone (Love that man)- “medium income in the North is 12K, many less than that…colds go on and on ‘cos families can’t afford the medicine…whanau (in the studio audience) know this to be true”.

    GRINDING LEVELS OF POVERTY place people under stress, lowers the wairua.

    Tamaki- “I am , in my own eyes” (give that woman a pill ;) ) families working themselves out of debt, into debt with Destiny Church. King takes Bishop.

    Interesting watching the nervous throat swallowings of the studio audience when faced with the evidence.

    McCroskie- “key driver, family breakdown” stigmatizing the single-parent household, protecting themselves from useless men. Widows and orphans, widows and orphans, what is that blinds ‘Christians’ to that scripture?

    Hone (love that man) “poverty can lead to family breakdown”.

    Rank in- “why don’t we look at the successful?”

    Food Insecurity.

    Anyway, I was hosting a man in poverty, with a large family, and he believed from his own extensive experience that both factors, poverty and parenting play a part.

    Did I say check your privilage?

    • Rosetinted 16.1

      Rankin- believes “that life skills overcome poverty”.

      Having the skill to make the most of your looks, dress well (with a little accidental cleavage), choose interesting earrings, show off your knees etc. is all useful stuff for women. Women don’t find many good-paying jobs (average out to 80% of men’s wages, which only gives a rough guide to the arid planet that some women try to live on). Hopefully all the effort will enable her to find a well-paid partner so anything she can earn can go towards extra goodies and holidays and better clothes still. Que sera.

      • Populuxe1 16.1.1

        I would still contend that there has been a massive drop off of the sort of basic survival skills my mother taught me – cooking, clothing repair, budgeting etc.

  15. OPPOSE the PRIVATISATION of State Housing via the ‘social housing’ model!

    Sue Henry (Spokesperson for the Housing Lobby) has asked me to send this FAR and WIDE!

    ATTENTION – SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE:

    SUBMISSION ON THE SOCIAL HOUSING REFORM (HOUSING RESTRUCTURING AND TENANCY MATTERS ) BILL:

    http://www.parliament.nz/enNZ/PB/SC/MakeSub/4/0/7/50SCSS_SCF_00DBHOH_BILL12226_1-Social-Housing-Reform-Housing-Restructuring.htm

    I strongly oppose the intent of this Bill to legislatively remove functions from Housing New Zealand (HNZ) under the proposed amended Part 5.

    ie: Assessing eligibility for a State house.

    · The functions of reviews, eligibility, and income-related rent
    subsidy calculations should not be transferred to any other body
    (including WINZ) from HNZ.

    · HNZ’s role as the major provider of State houses should not be
    delegated to a multiple provider of ‘social housing’. Under no
    circumstances should Part 5 of the Principal Act:
    The Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters Act 1992,
    be amended.

    · No ‘social housing’ agency should be recipients of existing State
    housing stock.

    · This Bill should not apply to existing State housing tenants.

    · State housing is a function of central Government – private ‘social
    housing’ entities, should be totally separate entities to Housing
    New Zealand.

    · I oppose this privatized model for State housing.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    REALLY important that we get as many submissions in as possible!

    Submissions need to be received by the Social Services Select Committee before midnight, Thursday 27 June 2013.

    They can be mailed FREEPOST to Parliament to:
    MAIL TO THE CLERK OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE :

    Private Bag 18041 Parliament Buildings Wellington 6061

    I have checked with the Clerk of the Social Services Select Committee, regarding whether or not there will be hearings in Auckland on this Bill.

    At this stage, it has not yet been decided.

    Recommend that as many Auckland people as possible circle YES to the
    ‘I WISH TO BE HEARD IN PERSON BY THE SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE’ bit on this submission form.

    Have just put this up on my website, and will help get the message out as FAR and WIDE as possible :)

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=175

    Her Warship ;)

  16. McFlock 19

    Roy Morgan out.
    Lab 33% (-2)
    grn 11.5% (-0.5)
    nat 44% (+3)

    “Too close to call”.

    • handle 19.1

      NZ First = 6%

      • Jimmie 19.1.1

        I’m sure Roy Morgan is the biggest cause of depression amongst leftie political activists currently.

        One fortnight he bounces his results up giving all sorts of hope for the death of the hated Key, then the next fortnight the numbers bounce down again and suddenly Shearer is wearing Kevlar under his shirt to avoid the inevitable knife in the back.

        Maybe they should only survey once a month to help reduce the number of stomach ulcers suffered by the L&G supporters?

        • McFlock 19.1.1.1

          I dunno. The trends are not too bad.

          • DavidC 19.1.1.1.1

            Nat + 3% isnt bad? LOL

            • McFlock 19.1.1.1.1.1

              one datapoint in a survey with a nominal MoE of ~3%? Nope.

              labgrn moving from well behind to consistently too close to call (even nudging ahead at times, not seen for years)? That’s what people call a “trend”.

              • Colonial Viper

                You distancing yourself from Shearer yet? I think its a good idea to start the verbal pre-positioning quite soon so it doesn’t look all sudden and panicky.

                • McFlock

                  I’m sure you do.

                  Personally, I like to base my assessments on facts. So in that case it’s still “too close to call”, or even on occasion leaving national “well behind”.

                  Besides, I’d find it pretty difficult to maintain an 18-month tantrum. You’re still going strong, though.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    An 18 month tanty? I suppose I like to be consistent.

                    Personally, I like to base my assessments on facts. So in that case it’s still “too close to call”, or even on occasion leaving national “well behind”.

                    Sometimes you have to start turning the wheel well before the evidential point of impact. Just saying.

                    BTW I think that Labour have a solid 50/50 chance of winning the election in 2014. But “winning” is merely an event and it isn’t the sole criteria of how I judge this thing called “leadership”.

                  • Socialist Paddy

                    How about these for facts?

                    I have never seen such an incompetent Government enjoy such support. I have never seen the Greens so popular. In the inner city liberal suburbs it is touch and go if Labour or the Greens are the most popular liberal party.

                    I have never seen the Greens win the party vote like they did in Wellington Central last time. I have never seen an electorate lose 10% points of the party vote like Labour did in Auckland Central.

                    I have never seen Dunedin swing so powerfully to the Greens like it did in 2011.

                    So nothing to worry about if you are a Green supporter. But if you are a Labour supporter well what can I say?

                    • McFlock

                      nothing to worry about if you’re a left supporter.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      McFlock, your “trust me, it’s all under control” meme is very calming and reassuring.

                    • McFlock

                      well, some of us are natural-born chicken littles, and some of us prefer to look at the facts.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      What do your pretense of “facts” and objectivity (you have no such thing) have to do with it?

                    • McFlock

                      Facts are the difference between discussing the real world and living in Narnia.
                      You’re welcome to present your own.

    • Socialist Paddy 19.2

      The Government has been under constant pressure through multiple fuck ups and it goes up in the polls?

      • McFlock 19.2.1

        well, it went down in the one just after the budget. I would have expected them to get a bounce from that, but it didn’t happen then. Maybe a lag?

      • Jokerman 19.2.2

        compliance.

      • Olwyn 19.2.3

        Oh well. Before there is time for anyone to get restless, the two main papers will put out polls in which Shearer’s Labour is on 35 or 36%, and the volatility of polls will be commented on and blah blah blah, sigh. It’s like watching the little wheels go round in a toy water mill.

    • Boadicea 19.3

      You must be joking you naughty Roman. I doubt McFlock is a real Celt.

      33% is where Labour has been for the whole Goff Robertson Shearer era.
      John Key’s incompetent ministers and MPs mess up daily and Labour can’t make a dent in their grip on power.
      Key could call an election if Banks or Dunne get booted.
      And would the voters go for Shearer?

      Bear in mind only half of this poll occurred before the Sky City Box fiasco.
      That may have gone out of the media. It has not gone out of people’s minds
      People are silently gobsmacked at the sheer stupidity of Shearer & co.

      • Olwyn 19.3.1

        Not sure if you are talking to me Boadicea, but what I meant was, the polls always seem to stay just high enough for the ABC lot to retain control of the party. And where the main polls fall short, the newspaper ones tend to make up for it. But I agree that the 29-35% range replicates the Goff period, the difference being that Key was a lot more popular then.

        • McFlock 19.3.1.1

          And that goff started six and a half points higher than Shearer did.

          • Willem 19.3.1.1.1

            McFlock,

            Your bare faced jumping from trend data to point data is shallow and unconvincing,
            You do not help the case of the leadership by pushing such a weak case in a weak manner.

            http://www.roymorgan.com/~/media/Files/Findings/2013/June/4978-NZ-National-Voting-Intention.pdf

            Here is a link to the figures. The current Labour leadership faction has been driving the strategy since the 2008 loss. And that faction has achieved the square root of sweet-fuck-all.

            The polls are a massive failure for Labour. The Labour strategy is wrong. The wrong people are at the top table. Look at the figures. Every member of the party sees them.
            Sadly the members found out at the 2011 Annual Conference that their voice is not wanted. Only the Caucus can sort this mess out.

            I respect Loyalty. Your support of the leadership is not a real loyalty. It is blinkered support. Keep it up! It strengthens those who want to win Labour for ALL the members.

            • Te Reo Putake 19.3.1.1.1.1

              Where to start?

              The polls say Labour/Green Government. Hardly a massive failure.

              The members drove the conference, and made historic changes to the party. Ok, if by ‘the members’ you mean the mugs putting DC up when he had no chance, then, yeah, it was a tough conference for them.

              I suspect McFlock, like me, doesn’t much care who leads the party. It’s the policies that count, because, on the left, that’s what we’re about. And if Shearer scrapes in, as it appears he will, then we get the best of Labour and the Greens to set our country’s future. That’s a pretty cool outcome, whoever the PM is.

              • Socialist Paddy

                The polls are a whisker away from a Labour/Green/NZ First government which could be the death knell for Labour.

                This is at a time when this Government has been as useless, incompetent, disrespective of citizens rights and utterly incompetent in running the economy. And don’t me get started on the environment.

                But they are still 11 points ahead of Labour. What gives?

                This discussion three months ago on the Standard would have caused a huge number of comments. Are lefties that numb that they now do no longer care?

                • Willem

                  “This discussion three months ago on the Standard would have caused a huge number of comments. Are lefties that numb that they now do no longer care?”

                  Yes, many are disappointed or disillusioned. Those who collected Asset Sales petitions saw it mismanaged and we had to back out again.
                  Then we found out that our “Leaders” were flying up from Wellington and Christchurch to sup in the Sky Box the same day.
                  The sense of hope that existed last year has been replaced with numbness.

              • Colonial Viper

                I suspect McFlock, like me, doesn’t much care who leads the party. It’s the policies that count, because, on the left, that’s what we’re about.

                Yes, policies, that’s right, that’s what we’re about.

                Uh, and so that means that leadership is not that important.

                So. We going to put our Leader on the hoardings this time? You know, because who leads our party…uh…isn’t something we need to much care about.

                • Te Reo Putake

                  Doesn’t bother me. I think its pretty obvious that Shearer is best when he’s not around.

              • Perplexed

                Sweetie, you can start here.
                National ’08 45%, ’11 47.5% now 44%.
                Labour/ Green ’08 41%, ’11 38.5% now 44.5%
                NZ1 ’08 4%, ’11 6.5% now 6%

                National has not been impacted by their own foul ups or by the efforts of the opposition.

                Labour Greens have closed the gap with the Nats by 4 pc points. However Winston and his 6% will go Nat rather than share power with the Greens.

                That is not a success given all that has gone on since ’08.

                That is a failure given that an election could be called anytime ( due to self inflicted wounds by Natz&co) and that a full term election is a little over 12 months away.

                Nothing cool there. It is very chilling. All Labour people should be very very concerned.

                • Populuxe1

                  There has been absolutely nothing to suggest NZF will go with National

                  • McFlock

                    except that it IS winston. Who knows wtf he’ll do? He might even resign prior to the campaign, ffs.

                • McFlock

                  What were the polls reading especially for national just before the elections? If you’re going to compare survey points with actual observations, you might want to see what the survey bias was.
                  A few percent skewed towards national, if I recall correctly.

            • McFlock 19.3.1.1.1.2

              the six and a half points was election results. I.e., actual votes, not “voter intention” estimates. That’s the difference between actual starting points, of which surveys like roymorgan estimate support periodically between the actual elections.

              If I wanted to compare survey point data, I’d look at the 23% result Labour got under goff shortly before the election.

              Love the way you speak for all labour party members, though.

              • Socialist Paddy

                So the 2011 result was a good one because Labour got 27%? McFlock you need to get a grip on reality.

                • McFlock

                  You need to learn to read.

                  The comparison was between goff and shearer’s leadership performance.
                  Moving from the low/mid thirties into the high/mid twenties is not the same as moving from the hih/mid twenties into the low/mid thirties in half the time.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    The comparison was between goff and shearer’s leadership performance.

                    There you fucking go again

                    What you actually mean is

                    The comparison was between goff and shearer’s polling performance.

                    Which is something different entirely. My prediction for next year is that Goff in 2011 will have shown himself a far stronger and more experienced campaigner than Shearer in 2014. Feel free to disagree.

                    • McFlock

                      I’m sure you’ll find plenty of excuses if shearer is the next pm.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      I’m sure you’ll find plenty of excuses if shearer is the next pm.

                      Uh…no, I’m still pretty confident that Shearer will not be as good in the campaign as Goff in 2011, regardless of “winning”.

                      They aren’t mutually exclusive you see.

                    • McFlock

                      working on it already. That’s good.

                  • Socialist Paddy

                    I may need to learn to read McFlock but you need to learn about politics. Given the appalling nature of this Government Labour should be ahead in the polls. Figuring out relative comparisons to show that it is slightly better now than it was before is frankly shyte.

                    • McFlock

                      Given the appalling nature of this Government Labour should be ahead in the polls.

                      Or you’re just projecting that everyone sees the same things and thinks the same way you do.

      • McFlock 19.3.2

        People are silently gobsmacked at the sheer stupidity of Shearer & co.

        Ah, the silent majority strikes again

        • Socialist Paddy 19.3.2.1

          Well you tell me McFlock. How does the Labour Party get out of the shyte that it is in right now?

          And don’t diss the silent majority. From what I hear they are talking a whole load of sense.

          • McFlock 19.3.2.1.1

            The Labour party is doing fine under MMP. MMP, if you don’t recall, is supposed to have coalition governments. They provide the meat, the greens provide the healthy veges. National is trying to be a monolith party under MMP, and it’s in serious long term strife. Basically, my ideal labour vote is 38-40-odd percent. With 12-15% greens or another left wing party to drag government policy left.

            Labour had a poor election response in 2011. But it needs to move through current levels to get to the 40-odd mark in 2014. It’s made it halfway, pretty much, and seems to be consistently improving, if slowly.

            Oh, and the silent majority might just turn out to be a vocal minority who can’t deal with the fact that they supported a losing candidate.

            • Socialist Paddy 19.3.2.1.1.1

              So David Shearer is the person who will deliver us to the promised land?

              FFS man he can hardly tie his shoe laces without help.

              Do you ever get out and talk to people on the street? The message I hear is that Labour is just not cutting it. There is no oomph. There is no passion. There is no explanation of what NZ has to do to improve things.

              Do you really want to rely on Winston Peters to provide a majority next time?

              • McFlock

                And yet the polls seem to be trending up. I recall when a 2 point dip would take labour into the 20s.

                • Socialist Paddy

                  FFS man have you ever heard about the margin of error?

                  • McFlock

                    yes. That doesn’t take labour into the twenties any more, either. Under goff, it was lucky to take labour out of the twenties.

                • Colonial Viper

                  I dunno who the fucking polls talk to mate, but they’re not talking to anyone without a landline at home, and they’re not talking to anyone who just uses a mobile phone.

                  • McFlock

                    still more reliable than “CV reckons people think this”, though.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Thanks for leaping to the defence of Shearer et al over and over and over this evening, always good to see an Alliance supporter muck in to cheerlead a centrist political party.

                    • McFlock

                      you’re the one who thinks the fate of a nation comes down to a single person’s job description.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      You think that leadership is unimportant. I don’t.

                    • McFlock

                      I think the style of leadership is unimportant.

                    • Arfamo

                      I hope you’re right McFlock. I came here looking for reasons to vote Labour and I think his leadership image and his ability to articulate and sell policy are going to be important to those voters who make their choices on the basis of what they see on the telly and the messages they remember. If I were to vote Labour on the basis of my own personal perception of Shearer’s ability to be elected to deliver a better alternative government right now it would be on the basis of gamble and hope, expecting failure, nothing like conviction.

        • Boadicea 19.3.2.2

          Labour people are stoic and not too mouthey. They have jobs and families and hobbies. They have been doing the the Enrollment stuff, the renewals, the boring meetings, the poorly led Asset Campaign. And they are generally silent while supporting their MPs and waiting for the Caucus to sort it’s shit out.

          Your sneering attitude towards the members disgust at the attendance at the Sky Box is disgusting.

          • Te Reo Putake 19.3.2.2.1

            Bollocks to the silent majority! Most LP members and supporters I’ve talked to since the weekend have been far from silent.

          • McFlock 19.3.2.2.2

            The arrogance you have to speak for all members is what makes me sneer.

            • Colonial Viper 19.3.2.2.2.1

              Oh fuck off McFlock, if I recall according to you, you’ve never been a member of the Labour Party but do support the Alliance.

              So the arrogance you have being a non-member and a supporter of a different party, sneering at someone who is a member, over their comment relating to a membership to which you have never belonged yourself, makes me sneer.

              • McFlock

                I sneer at anyone who thinks they have a mainline into the internal desires of everyone in a particular group.

                Especially if I know members of that group who support shearer as leader and still actually like the party they belong to.

      • Rhinocrates 19.3.3

        It’s not just the Sky City box fiasco that so infuriating… it’s the fact that every bloody week they fuck up and undermine some supposedly key policy point.

        Every week with every single major policy they give the NACTS an opportunity to shout “Show me the money!”

        And all NACT’s useful idiots are saying “Clark was rating lower in the Precambrian, Goff was at a lower point in the Triassic…”

        It’s all grasping at straws.

        Even Dalziel was desperately scrambling on Nine to Noon the other day, pretending that “normal voting patterns” would resume.

        I feel sorry for, and am amazed at the faith and persistence of, party workers who sincerely and passionately devote themselves to policy development only to be spat on at the last conference and humiliated by a recurring cycle of fiascoes that happen so regularly you could set your watch by them. It’s as if Sisyphus can’t even get his boulder to the top of the mountain – it rolls away the moment he moves it.

        And all the time, it’s excuses, excuses, excuses…

    • David H 19.4

      FFS I’m getting seasick, up, down, up, down, it’s like real bad porn film.

      • McFlock 19.4.1

        gentle swells. The trick is to watch the tides.

        • Boadicea 19.4.1.1

          Tides = ‘election cycles’ , the “in phrase” for Robertson’s strategists.
          Thanks McFlock. It’s nice to see your Party Central credentials confirmed.

          CV, McFlock is not an Alliance bod.

          • McFlock 19.4.1.1.1

            lol
            A fantacist in action, right there.
            Although I am confidant in saying “and you, madam, are no Celt”.

          • Colonial Viper 19.4.1.1.2

            Boadicea…thanks, I appreciate it.

            • McFlock 19.4.1.1.2.1

              Don’t.
              The only relationship I have with Robertson is that he was present of the students’ association at about the same time I started uni.

  17. aerobubble 20

    Mothers chew food for their babies, baby food is mash, to make it easy to digest, so was it any wonder a faster food chain would utilize food science to make food that produce a quick feeling of fullness. Food that was easily digestible within 5 hours. So I was a bit struck when the lawyer before the privy council seem to suggest that a MacDonald fast food takeout should be near the upper limit of five hour before it would be digested. And what is near alibi that would exonerate him, we here a lot about the speeding to get home, and how the computer clock was wrong, well there was a clock at the alibi event too, if you were going to kill someone and came across a clock that was wrong… ..anyway this is why courts should be trusted with the process and why Bain should get compensation, for Justice to be fair the court must prove guilt, and when they can’t…

    • the pigman 20.1

      Ooh good, a pro-Lundy nutbar.

      Given that McDonalds buns take a good year to develop mold/decompose behind my couch, it would not surprise me at all if they were at the upper limits of what’s digestible.

      The only evidence suggesting he was in Petone at midnight is the alibi of a prostitute – I look forward to her testimony at the rehearing.

      In the meantime, pro-Lundy nutbars are going to have to explain:

      a) the bedroom window broken and surrounding blood stains of Mum when the “stranger jewellery-box-robber hypothesis” is premised on the intruder leaving through the door, which was after all open (the defence case was “No true pre-meditated murderer would be such an amateur”);
      b) The stranger invader grabbing the key off the divider, going outside to grab Lundy’s tools, unlocking the garage, THEN murdering mother and child; and
      c) The increase in Mum’s and Dad’s life insurance policy when dad was facing over 100k in debt.

      Instead you want to jump up and defend how easily digestible McDonalds would be? Please.

      • felix 20.1.1

        I’ve never understood why people seem to get so personally involved with court cases they presumably have nothing to do with, and take up such entrenched positions on matters they know nothing more about than anyone else.

        Someone who disagrees with you on the interpretation of a very limited set of facts isn’t necessarily a nutbar. They’re just another uninformed person like yourself but with a slightly different perspective.

        Also you seem to be scornful of evidence provided by a sex worker. Why is that?

        • the pigman 20.1.1.1

          A part of what sex workers are paid for is to keep men’s secrets.

          As to nutbar, that was sloppy language, and not intended to be founded on the fact of aerobubble was being pro-Lundy (but rather anti-judicial-process-but-only-parts-of-it-that-don’t-suit-Lundy, and the vaguely conspiratorial ring of the post…) – anyway, I retract and apologize.

          However, I do think presuming that both the computer clock and the motel’s/sex worker’s clock were wrong is simply reading in facts that do not exist (and have not even been alleged by the defence) is fringe behaviour.

          Same with an appeal court overturning a decision (which having watched the closing arguments at the P.C., and the way they were received by the judges, I believe Lundy will get a retrial) and coming out with “why courts should [not] be trusted with the process” is fringey tinfoilhat behaviour.

      • aerobubble 20.1.2

        Burgers behind couches, dry out, whereas a burger introduced to a wet billion year old evolved stomach is quite a different thing. Obviously people who eat burgers digest them… duh.

  18. Santi 21

    Considering that Labour appears to follow the Greens on every harebrained initiative, a few questions arise:
    Where is David Shearer?
    What is he doing?
    What leadership does he provide other than follow Norman?
    Who is advising him?
    Why isn’t Grant Robertson stepping in?

    • Bill (I was not at the Sky Box) 21.1

      Santi, God Bless your sweet Innocence.

      Grant Robertson is the problem and therefore can’t be “stepping in” to fix anything.

      He has all the Leaders Staff under his control – he picked most.
      Robertson, along with WaionouimataMan, devised the election strategy for 2011, the image strategy for Goff and now the image strategy for Shearer. Along with Goff, Mallard and King he picked Shearer to block Cunliffe, who would have sent them to their well earned retirment/Embassy etc.

      If you are wondering what Shearer is doing wrong, the answer is he is doing whatever Grant Roberson is telling him to do.
      Remove Robertson and we are on the way to fixing the Labour Party.

      • Jimmie 21.1.1

        So you are saying that Robertson is the VRWC plant and not Shearer? That is quite devious as most folk assumed that Shearer was ballsing up Labour by himself without any help from his deputy?

  19. NickS 22

    Oh shit:
    https://twitter.com/cstross/status/346589204144353280

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/mi6-coder-death-foul-play/
    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/codebreaker-death/
    http://www.alternet.org/story/40485/two_strange_deaths_in_european_wiretapping_scandal
    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3305

    Whoever the fuck killed these men forgot that unless you’ve got control over the local police and media, the truth will always come to the fucking surface. Murder just leaves too many loose ends for investigators to follow, particularly when intelligence orgs are involved.

    No wonder Snowden’s in hidding then if this is their standard operating procedure for closing leaks :(

    • Jokerman 22.1

      if one follows the MSM, even, bodies in boots, sniper take-outs; the capitalists have a lot at stake.

  20. Jokerman 25

    MANA housing plan (love that man).

  21. Jokerman 26

    This is another load of sh*t MSM editorial; Justice and the military, and nuclear developments are under the control of hard-line clerics obedient to The Supreme Leader, backed by the powerful Revolutionary Guard
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/international-politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503226&objectid=10891736

  22. Willem 27

    At this stage of the game Labour needs to be in the low 40s not the low 30s.

    Why?

    The Governor General will invite the leader of the largest party to try to form a government first. Winston would go with National if the only alternative is a Labour Green NZ First Threesome. If Winston’s supporters thought that he would even think of working with the Green they would run to the Natz in droves.

    The electorate will not give Labour the boost it needs if it thinks that will lead to a Threeesome Govt.

    To win, Labour needs to be in a position to choose between the Greens and Winston. They need to be in the 40s That is not going to happen unless the Caucus decides to make a very significant change.

    As long as Shearer Robertson are there Labour will remain in the low 30s and Natz will lead the next Government.
    .

    • karol 27.1

      The Governor General will invite the leader of the largest party to try to form a government first.

      Wrong.

      It happens like this: The GG’s role includes

      formally requesting the leader of the political party with support of a majority in the House of Representatives to form a government,

      So s/he’d only invite the leader of the biggest party to form a government if they had an outright majority. Failing that, whatever party can get the confidence and supply agreement of enough MPs to form a majority alliance, will get the GG’s invite.

    • McFlock 27.2

      said it before, but from my perspective ideally:

      (lab+grn)>((nat+NZ1)=(lab+NZ1)).

      For that I reckon lab+grn are on track to be in a good position for the beginning or 2014, considering their starting point.

    • felix 27.3

      Absolute rubbish, Willem.

      As karol says, all that counts is a majority in the house.

      Party share of that majority simply does not come into it in any way shape or form.

  23. vto 28

    It is a well known phenomenon that EQC is the most woeful government department ever. It goes back to not even having a plan to deal with the thousands and thousands of claims that would result from a disaster hitting one of our major cities. This is of course gross negligence of the highest order given that is exactly their purpose. (holding back expletives here..)….. and that negligence rests entirely on the shoulders of previous Ministers responsible for the organisation and the governments they were part of.

    Now as part of that complete incompetence it has also committed other astounding blunders such as emailing out private details to all and sundry.

    But now get this – documents necessary to get repairs underway for claimants are no longer emailed, they are snail-mailed because they simply cannot trust themselves to not make a mistake with email…
    … excuse me here but …… ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    it brings tears to the eyes …….

    • It is the fist of control that this represents. Someone makes a mistake then everyone is not allowed to do that which is by far the most efficient way of sending out information.

      The managers need to worry less about the possible mistakes and more about the best way to send out information. That is if helping ordinary people sort out their problems is important.

    • David H 28.2

      Maybe they should just pack up all their computers back in to their boxes, and send them back, because they are obviously too stupid to use them.

  24. Te Hamua Nikora has outlined the Mana Movement’s new housing policy very very well in the speech linked to below. And he doesn’t pull any punches where labour is concerned either. I can’t wait for him to get into parliament.

    MANA wants to build 10,000 state houses a year, 500 immediately in Ikaroa Rawhiti, as a first step to ensuring that every whanau that needs a home can get one, either to rent or to own.

    MANA would run the scheme through a restructured Te Puni Kokiri, in the same way that Maori Affairs ran the scheme in the past.

    Government finance would come through Te Puni Kokiri, effectively cutting out banks and their mean-spirited attitude to Maori homeowners.

    Only Maori first home owners would be able to apply.

    There would be no deposit.

    Interest rates would be no higher than the rates government pays on money it borrows.

    Applicants can either build new or buy an existing property

    Applicants will be able to negotiate mortgage arrangements that suit their circumstances.

    MANA’s policy would fully restart Maori Trade Training in all the housing apprenticeships – carpentry, electrician, plumber, glazier, painting, roofing and drain-laying – and provide direct employment to hundreds of young Maori, reversing unemployment of 5,000 in Ikaroa Rawhiti and sending a positive message to those in Australia as well.

    It is a win-win – our people get jobs building decent homes for our whanau.

    http://mana.net.nz/2013/06/mana-housing-policy-announcement-for-maori-te-hamua-nikora-ikaroa-rawhiti-mana-candidate/

    • Saarbo 29.1

      An incredibly nasty peice on TV3 news by Tova Obrien on Te Hamua Nikora and pakehas lack of understanding of koha. Just let it go MSM, understand what Koha is about and fuck off. This sort of ignorant shit from the msm just pisses me off.

      Now I feel better.

      • DavidC 29.1.1

        Saarbo.

        Maybe you would like to explain why I as a tax paying Whitey should just fuck off when it comes to bribes for Maori?

      • marty mars 29.1.2

        So sad to see the bit from Marama – she’s gone down in my estimation now.

        • Saarbo 29.1.2.1

          That was a classic TV3 misrepresentation…my understanding is that Marama is completely supportive of the Koha to Te Hauma Nikora (Native Affairs from a couple of weeks ago). TV3 played that clip in such a way to cause confusion.

  25. Colonial Viper 30

    All hands, action stations, this is not a drill

    Severe global financial market crash may be starting. Expect massive paper asset deflation. The banksters and their puppet politicians kicking the can down the road, may have just run out of road.

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