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Open mike 21/11/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 21st, 2012 - 87 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

87 comments on “Open mike 21/11/2012”

  1. Jenny 1

    Tracey Watkins gives her view, that the row between the two camps is just is not about politics. She is of the view that the dispute is all about the perceived performance of the two leaders rather than any major political difference.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7976341/Power-of-old-guard-part-of-leadership-tussle

    The Labour caucus row is about performance, rather than policy.

    While David Cunliffe has become the poster boy for the Labour Left, there are no obvious policy differences between him and leader David Shearer.

    They both agree on big-ticket policies like the retirement age, capital gains tax, and monetary policy.

    TRACEY WATKINS

    In my view Watkins is wrong, performance is based on politics, one has got something to say, and one hasn’t.

    Watkins left out one major policy difference between the two.

    And it is the defining issue of our age.

    David Cunliffe is the only parliamentary political leader to take Climate Change seriously. And he is being punished for it.

    Even the Greens have given up talking about climate change, on the grounds that it will make them appear too radical and cost them seats. Also so as not to embarrass their future coalition partner, the current leadership of which, seem dead set on Ignoring Climate Change altogether.

    This is a worldwide crisis but internationally most mainstream politicians have chosen if the can to put it in the too hard basket. Shearer is one of those. His deliberate ignoring of this issue is painful to witness. Instead he is moved to punish Cunliffe who openly faces the issue his honest appraisal of the threat is a spur to the opposition parties and the leader of the Labour Party opposition top make a stand..

    I hope that David Cunliffe is not intimidated by the events of yesterday and continues to speak up on this and other issues.

    • aerobubble 1.1

      People are not all about to vote for the left wing of the Labour party. Labour like National likes not having to lean on other parties for a mandate. So it seems entirely predictable in Feb next year that the party will back Shearer. Most people who might switch to Labour aren’t going to just throw their neo-liberal memes off as quickly as you hope. It takes time for people to change.

      And good on Cunliffe for boosting his leaders standing, giving him a victory, and providing kiwis with a opportunity of putting meat on the bone so to speak.

      • David H 1.1.1

        What a load of old right wing rubbish. Shearer is a gonner as you will see. the fool cant string 2 sentences together unless he’s had a week to practice.

  2. RedLogix 2

    Amused too by Jane Clifton’s >whack job in the Listener:

    1. You make speeches with tacit but heavily coded inferences that if they made you the leader, you would introduce kick-butt policies that the incumbent is too gutless/politically unsound/incompetent to contemplate – carefully omitting specifics.

    2. You tickle up edginess among the many anxious party supporters who are panicking at what they perceive is a lack of progress in the party’s profile and poll fortunes.

    3. You agree to a live TV interview on the morning of the party’s annual conference debate about the rules for electing the leader at which you conspicuously avoid expressing support for the leader.

    4. You do nothing to dispel the inference that dissatisfaction with the leadership, and an appetite for your ascendancy, is a big factor in the conference making sweeping constitutional changes about the leader’s election which appear to put a banana skin under the current leader’s foot.

    5. You spend the conference wearing a smile that could power the California grid.

    Smiling is now a crime!!! Is this schoolgirl gossip the best one of our senior political journo’s can come up with? This isn’t evidence; it’s inference and speculation fed to her by Mallard. (Direct and in person I’m led to understand.)

    • rosy 2.1

      This really like witch dunking.

      And who is Shane Jones, stepper-in on other people’s portfolios to talk about whares and huhu grubs and team players? When is he going to be disciplined for his comments on fisheries and reserves…

      I guess with the gleeful dissing of Cunliffe means he’ll be back on the front bench in the reshuffle.

      • Logie97 2.1.1

        Shane Jones – no electorate, just a list MP. Wonder just who actually listens to him (outside the press gallery).

    • karol 2.2

      you spend the conference wearing a smile


      Was Jane Clifton at the conference, or is she doing another analysis based merely on photos from the event?

    • Blue 2.3

      Yes, smiling is a fucking crime now. You’re not allowed to look happy or you’re plotting to overthrow the leadership.

      You must remain determinedly po-faced throughout a great historic moment for Labour, modernising the party in the most significant set of constitutional changes in thirty years.

      Dirty rotten little coupmakers. You can always tell them by the weird upturn of their mouths and the flash of white teeth that tells you they are planning espionage.

      • Colonial Viper 2.3.1

        Yes, smiling is a fucking crime now. You’re not allowed to look happy or you’re plotting to overthrow the leadership.

        Clearly all these should be spelled out in a new little red book.

      • King Kong 2.3.2

        Of course smiling is only a crime if you throw in a wave as well.

        • fender 2.3.2.1

          “Of course smiling is only a crime if you throw in a wave as well.”

          And it comes from a mean spirited class war general undertaking the theft of NZ and the rebirth of slavery for the poor.

  3. So Labour’s serial leaker strikes again.  Details of what happened in yesterday’s Caucus meeting have been leaked to the Herald and the spin is obviously anti Cunliffe.

    When is the party going to deal with this person?

    And why did the leader insist on MPs telling him who they were going to vote for in February when it is a secret vote and they are obliged to consult with their LECs before they make up their mind?

    • Craig Glen Eden 3.1

      So Cunliffe’s freedom of Speech is removed by David Shearer “The Somali War Lord” really I would have thought under the bill of rights that a person any person had a right to ohh I dunno free speech’ wonder what the UN would think about it?

      • McFlock 3.1.1

        David Shearer “The Somali War Lord” 
                
        You know your freedom of speech? Think first, otherwise you might seem a bit … irrational. 
         Fuck sake. 

    • Bill 3.2

      Well, is it not totally reasonable to get Trevett to reveal who it is she is quoting when she says an mp cescribed the dressing down as “sobering”. I mean that take is in quote marks, which means it isn’t ‘off the record’, no?

      And on Edward’s piece, I agree that seeking mp’s intention on a future secret ballot is (constitutional matters aside) utter bullshit. That thing called democracy, you know, where mp’s are bound by the democratic will of their members – means it’s impossible for any democractically minded mp to say. That was, quite rightly in my opinion, Sue Moroney’s response when asked by the media which way she would vote in Feb.

      edit: Besides all that, I think it’s time to focus on the hand within the (to be discarded by and by) glove puppet from here on in.

    • karol 3.3

      So it’s OK for someone in the caucus to talk to the press about what happened, as long as they do it anonymously, and in support of Shearer.
       
      What a bunch of hypocrits!

    • Herodotus 3.4

      Who is lying here ? From MS’s NZ Herald link
      “He later said he was not able to comment because caucus had decided that only Mr Shearer would speak on the matter.”
      So how did the NZH hear about the goings on in caucus ? Either Shearer is the deep throat or someone is acting without following instructions. Do as I say not as I do !!!! Agreed with you Karol. I bet there will be no investigation done as to the source of the leak, and approp. action taken.
      For an egalitarian party there appears to be “princeps civitatis”
      Not sure who is the under performer of the following: Labour, National or the NZ cricket team. From what I have seen it is not NZC 🙁

  4. Red Rosa 4

    NRT has it right as usual.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/an-act-of-self-mutilation.html

    Shearer’s performance on TV1 last night was a shocker. Mumbling, complacent, vindictive…

    ‘Trust me, and we’ll sleepwalk to victory. Save your energy for the internal scrapping.’

    Not good enough, guys.

  5. Logie97 5

    Anyone else notice Joky Hen’s choice of shirt at his “Heads of state conference”. Was he trying to convince us all that his quip about shirt colour was just, you know, “weird.” Or was he wearing that shocking pink shirt so that he would stand out amongst the throng? Perhaps his family told him to wear it. Just wondering

    • Te Reo Putake 5.1

      I think it’s a subtle hint that he’s considering running for the leadership of the Labour Party in February.

    • fender 5.2

      I think he’s trying to undo his fuckups that have made him an international laughing stock.

      Next he will wear an “I love the brainy Beckham” shirt.

  6. Te Reo Putake 6

    An interesting and measured contribution from Greg Presland on RNZ a few minutes ago. Cunliffe’s LEC is considering a formal complaint about the treatment of Cunliffe over the last few days. Not so much the demotion (there was an acceptance that the leader has the right to pick his team), but the underhanded leaks and the public dissing from the likes of Hipkins, which, on the face of it, were more damaging to the party than Cunliffe’s cheesy grin could possibly do.

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 6.1

      ..thereby ensuring that this plays in the news for at least as long as it takes to consider that complaint. What a complete fucking idiot.

    • King Kong 6.2

      Oh, thats who that was.

      I heard some guy just about in tears going in to bat for Cunliffe then immediately after Brent Edwards saying that this guy was actually one of Cunliffes smear merchants in the run up to the disastrous coup.

      • weka 6.2.1

        Yeah? Where did you hear that? It would also help if your sentence made grammatical sense.

        • King Kong 6.2.1.1

          It was on Morning report. And in order not to offend you, will re post in order to make it easier for you to read.

          Oh, that’s who that was.

          I heard a man in an interview on National Radio this morning strongly in support of Cunliffe. This man sounded like he was on the verge of tears.

          Immediately after the article, Brent Edwards presented a piece which included reference to the previous interviewee being one of Cunliffes smear merchants in the run up to the disastrous coup.

        • Dr Terry 6.2.1.2

          Don’t let it get to you weka, nothing from KK makes sense.

  7. Logie97 7

    How many of Shearer’s troops are list MP’s and not answerable to LEC’s.?

  8. Colonial Viper 8

    How is the Labour Party membership supposed to give feedback to their local Labour MP on what has happened when we are all being kept in the dark? And DC and in fact the whole of caucus has been gagged?

    Looks like the NZLP has opted for a Singapore Style Democracy. Lee Kuan Yew would be proud.

    • rosy 8.1

      I gave my feedback about the process directly to Shearer (well, his PA) through the ‘contact us’ message option on the Labour Party website. Felt good, it did… I must send the same to my local MP – Grant Robertson – that will feel good too, I reckon.

      • David H 8.1.1

        Well surely after the first 20000 messages telling them they are morons maybe the message will get thru that they have royally screwed the pooch.

  9. muzza 9

    [deleted]

    [lprent: You have a current ban for a pointless abuse comment. Doubling it for posting comments while banned. Puts you up to 2 weeks. ]

    [RL: Sorry my mistake for approving it. I hadn’t spotted the ban.]

    • Logie97 9.1

      …care to suggest something better as an alternative to our current parliamentary system then?

    • muzza 9.2

      I had no idea I was on a ban, or that I had been banned,

      Would it be too much to ask which comment lead to this situation?

      Ive been falsely banned on here once before, so excuse me if I don;t have much faith in where this has originated from!

      [I wasn’t involved, but see here. I’ll let this through so you can see the link. r0b]

      • muzza 9.2.1

        R0b, the link you put above seems to loop directly back to the comment above that, where LP states I am on a ban, which was news to me. Generally I don’t lower the tone to “pointless abuse”, it serves no purpse, but my comments do attract some, which is water off a ducks back really.

        I would accept that sometimes I a flippant with words, but “pointless abuse” is something I won’t lower myself to.

        Would be good to understand where the “ban” originates from, and who issued it.

  10. KhandallaMan 10

    The “NO COMMENT” membership drive starts this Saturday.

  11. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11

    It’s so refreshing that all that leadership nonsense is now behind us.

  12. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 12

    In completely unrelated news, can I commend the below documentary to readers?

  13. AwakeWhileSleeping 13

    !!

    Sick of crappy search results? I just discovered Duck Duck Go which means search results are not personalised. (Yes….I do sound like an ad don’t I? The last few months have been searching hell for me dispite using ixquick, etc and Google results are so bad that I can’t find what I’m looking for sometimes unless I type the site directly into the search bar – how is that possible? Google is crap, that’s how.)

    http://dontbubble.us/

    Site above shows you WHY you can’t find what you are looking for anymore, then suggests Duck Duck Go as a search engine.

    I only just found it, so hope it works. After previously having good search results this has turned into a surprisingly time consuming issue. *argh*

    • weka 13.1

      Thanks, will check it out. Google just goes from bad to worse. At the moment it returns multiple hits from the same site all in a row (sometimes taking up nearly all of the page). Can I turn that off somehow? And their new menu system means many more clicks to get what I want :roll:

    • Uturn 13.2

      Are the results different to the ones you get on google if you turn off their advertising, disable cookies and block tracking using tools provided by google? I don’t know, I’ll give it a try.

      Result: yes they are. A far broader understanding of any particular search than offered on google, even with all the winkies turned off.

      I think I might give that a go. Usually what I had to do on google was to search something then immediately click to page ten to find the interesting stuff.

  14. Professor Longhair 14

    Small group of Israelis pretending to be scared…

    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1353421901.html

  15. Professor Longhair 15

    Israel-Palestine – what is the U.S. national interest?
    Posted November 20, 2012
    By RALPH NADER

    Israeli elections are coming up in January so it is Palestinian hunting season again. Israeli cynics call it a time “for mowing the grass.”

    Out comes the well-worn playbook by Israel’s militaristic government that has worked to silence Israeli politicians and citizens who want a two-state solution. This is an opportunity to use and test advanced weaponry from the U.S., compliments of U.S. taxpayers, and squelch ongoing peace efforts, small and large, by Palestinians, Israelis and international peace advocates.

    The playbook’s first chapter is provocation to upset a tense but workable truce with Hamas, the elected government of Gaza. Hamas was encouraged at its creation years ago by both Israeli and U.S. backers to counter the secular Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Bit of a blowback there.

    Israeli government leaders are expert provocateurs when they wish to seize land, water or prisoners and upset any movement toward a peace that would create a viable Palestinian state back to the 1967 borders, which includes East Jerusalem. When Israel came into being in 1948, it soon broke a UN truce and doubled its territory by taking the large area known as the Negev desert, whose refugees ended up in the Gaza Strip. Now 1.6 million encircled and impoverished humans, blockaded and under siege by Israel, try to survive in an open-air prison little more than twice the size of the District of Columbia.

    Read more….
    http://nader.org/2012/11/20/israel-palestine-what-is-the-u-s-national-interest/

    • freedom 15.1

      a handy reference list of the US veotes that co-incidentally allowed Israel to further dominate an oppressed people and continue to generate billions in weapons technology
      http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

      and to Britain France et al, when sitting on the Security Council of the UN an abstention is tacit agreement with the veto threat that provoked each and every abstention

      In the UN, toast always falls butter side up for some

      • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1

        RT: US have blocked a UNSC statement condemning Israel’s violence (wasn’t rocket science)

        • freedom 15.1.1.1

          UNSC have further protracted their dithering by announcing the issue is to be discussed again in another meeting tomorrow. At this rate Gaza will be empty of living people before they decide to tell the truth. Like East Timor, Like Cambodia, Like Rwanda, genocide is a business and business keeps their gravytrain rolling. Maybe if the UNSC moved the meeting to Gaza, or to TelAviv, they would show a little urgency, a little humanity.

  16. vto 16

    Israel has the right to defend its citizens when under attack.

    Palestine has the right to defend its territory when under occupation.

    So what next?

  17. Rogue Trooper 17

    The Four Horsemen of the Economic Apocalypse
    was watching Max Keiser on RT; he is one funny dude, anyway, there is an indie film about the above topic and Max was interviewing Ross Ashcroft of renegadeeconomist.com about the film;
    -rapacious financial system
    -escalating organised violence
    -environmental resource degradation
    -poverty of the billions (there are those pesky “billions” of people again)

    Root cause-Neoclassical Economics

    Time, to change cognitive maps

    helpful antidote to rampant capitalism-The Co-operative (with a little peer-to-peer crowd funding)

    support Debt Jubilee initiatives

    (re sovereign debt; Max reported on how an Argentinian naval ship is being held by a hedge fund) 🙂

    this is not the correct link, but I gotta go pay the rent
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bill-buckler-presents-four-horsemen-financial-apocalypse

    “this is not a love song…this is not a love song…may the road rise with you…may the road rise with you
    I could be wrong…I could be right..Anger is an energy…Anger is an energy” Public Image Public Image

  18. The search and links seems to be breaking on the

    http://thestandard.org.nz/leadership-meeting-the-outcome/ atricle.

    400+ comments wow 🙂

    • lprent 18.1

      The search lags. It runs sphinxsearch on a cron job about 3 or 4 times per hour to pick up the delta’s. Now I have more headroom on the CPU I should look at increasing it again.

      That may be what you are seeing. I’ll tag it for checking.

  19. s y d 19

    quote from NZ Herald , John Key

    “I’ve never lied about Kim Dotcom and I don’t lie about anything”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10848948

  20. aerobubble 20

    NZ population growth stalls, as more young skilled take up residence in Australia, and start growing the next generation of Kiwis. Offspring will either be so Australianized and won’t be connected to NZ, or worse will get criminal records and be sent packing back to NZ. So essentially Key’s and NZ policy is to grow Australian success stories, and take the also-rans back. Imaginative hey.

    So we get the harder to deal with returning, who have been brought up Australian, who if they are successful, turn around their lives, get a degree with government loans, start a business even, who will jump back over the ditch at the first opportunity. Only the worst or the worst, stopped from ever returning, will pile up here, those with criminal records, with poor educational acheivements, etc.

    But worse! The new kiwis citizens who know nothing of their homeland, will be educated to support the Australian economy needs, not the NZ, taught Australia history, skilled to build a deepening and wide economic base, and our kids in NZ will continue to be plagued by education politics.

  21. TruthSeeker 21

    Interesting choice of words by the PM when questioned about Dotcom last night:

    “If he’s miraculously going to find some person who he reckons whispered in my ear something, well, OK, prove the person and put them up.

    “But I’ll tell you now, what difference would it make whether I’d heard about the guy six months earlier? Absolutely none.”

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Dotcom-contractors-contacted-PMs-office/tabid/1607/articleID/277455/Default.aspx#ixzz2CnkBknT9

  22. freedom 22

    here is one TPP article full of those pesky fact thingys that you won’t see in the local papers

    “participants in the negotiations had to sign a memorandum of understanding which forbids them from releasing any “negotiating documents until four years after a deal is done or abandoned.”

    http://www.nationofchange.org/trans-pacific-partnership-what-corporate-governance-looks-1353428537

  23. Bill 23

    Oops! Hey Lynn, (or another mod) I seem to have approved a ‘comment’ that wasn’t actually a comment that’s now come up on the comments sidebar. Don’t know what to do with it now. Meaning…don’t want to touch in case all sort of wierd and (not so) wonderful stuff starts to happen. Bloody phobia!

  24. Rogue Trooper 24

    these links to topical articles on allied blogs are really helpful; we are not alone
    anyway,
    Herald
    -health delivery delays
    -insurance companies are gonna just love the predictive / actuarial potential of these telomere tests
    -many Islamic activist groups in Syria do not support the “official” opposition grouping supported by the West
    -another truck and trailer falls over
    -Tolkein family interests place a line in the sand over inappropriate commercialisation
    -wow, there sure is a demand for easy access sex at Hunters Corner
    (used to be an excellent Indian restaurant on the road leaving Papatoetoe towards the eastern suburbs, and when one is a single man (or not, as I learn of all the married local Harley club guys hitting the knock-shops as soon as they are away out of town) ya just wanna stick ya dick in something sometimes)

  25. Jackal 25

    Jackson must be spewing

    On the back of bad publicity concerning the mistreatment of animals comes more bad news for the makers of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey movie just days out from its premiere at the Embassy Theatre in Wellington…

  26. fisiani 26

    So tell me if I have read the postings wrongly.
    The majority of posters here now hate Shearer and would rather see John Key win in 2014 than have the Quisling Shearer bring in a National- lite coalition government for 3 years?
    If this premise is correct then the sole focus should be on kneecapping Shearer either before or after the election.
    If Shearer loses in 2014 then he would be gone.
    If Shearer wins in 2014 then he will stay.
    If you cannot kneecap Shearer before election 2014 then you have to work to ensure that he loses.
    Will we see embittered Leftists not simply transferring their vote to Green or Mana but strategically biting the bullet and voting National for once only.

    • fatty 26.1

      I can’t speak for everyone else, but I don’t dislike Shearer, I just dislike how unelectable and incompetent he is.

      Will we see embittered Leftists not simply transferring their vote to Green or Mana but strategically biting the bullet and voting National for once only.

      WTF? You been smoking crack? Are you asking if lefties would rather vote for a party that would pull Labour into the direction that they think Labour should be heading in, or, vote for National?
      Ask google about MMP

      • Rogue Trooper 26.1.1

        great link yesterday (all my troubles seem to fade away) fatty; kiwipolitico is an interesting blog

  27. How about some focus now on the BIG  issues folks? 🙂

    Like the  Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) negotiations which will be starting here in Auckland on 3 December 2012 – 12 December 2012?

    What are Labour stalwarts doing on THIS issue? 

    Hopefully  THOUSANDS of you will want the opportunity to show your opposition to the ‘pro-investor’ /’anti-public majority’ Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement?

    (What sort of ‘partnership’ – excludes the public?

    Why is the TPPA so ‘top secret’?)

    Here you go!

    SIGN ON HERE FOLKS TO SHOW YOUR OPPOSITION TO THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT! (TPPA) 

    http://gpjanz.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/urgent-auckland-round-target-1-million-sign-ons-to-avaaz-petititon-to-stop-the-tpp/

    MY COMMENT:
    What’s good for big business it not usually good for the public majority.

    The neo-liberal reforms have proven that FREE TRADE = PRIVATISATION.

    Arguably the root cause of corruption is privatisation – how is it decided who gets the contracts?

    Where’s the corruption-risk assessment of ‘Free Trade Agreements’ such as the TPPA?

    (Haven’t been provided with any reply  from MFAT on that question…… first asked it back in 2010 – at the last round of TPPA negotiations held in NZ).

    Where is is the ‘cost-benefit analysis’ which proves that the private provision of public services is a more ‘cost-effective’ use of tax-payer and ratepayer monies, compared with when those services used to be provided ‘in-house’ at central and local government level? 

    How much public monies could be saved by CUTTING OUT THE CONTRACTORS (especially private consultants)? 

    Where is the TRANSPARENCY? 

    Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY? 

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

  28. Rogue Trooper 29

    In between lawns

    I been wondering how many journalism and /or politics students and faculty read and write here.
    There sure are some clever writers and analysts.stream of consciousnes teccnique may be effective and adopted by those possessing consciousness

    The link to Gavin Ellis demonstrated his scholarship in propaganda; he would have adopted technique through study and would know about the sinful nature of man and hedonistic versus ethical decisions.

    I have a small gardening job for the owner of my rental caravan tomorow. See, man writes about gardening and it happens, like The Death of God.

    The local paper reported on the large number of local people living in caravans or inadequate housing.
    Very compassionate of them. The editor is also a shill for the real estate industry.
    Yet, in the letters to the editor they publish some very critical analyses of salient issues like the NZIER
    proposal to increase the New Zealand population to 11M and the implications for the environment and resource use versus foreign export earnings.

    the experience of “bipolarity” is both un-nerving and predictable but it can get a person in a lotta trouble until they understand it. (reading Lord of The Rings compulsively in the loo during apprenticeship and going to the gym before and after work on the big motorbike vroom vroom)

    This “civics” proposal is interesting
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civics
    and this entry is interesting
    yet I challenge the critics employment of the Aristotle assertion and the three freedoms.

    recur the telos back into the sphere and maybe we will see a “kingdom on earth” or do we await our young people ending up in institutions, jail or dead.

    Capitalist economic-rationalisation propaganda takes care of “freedom of choice” “freedom of action” and “freedom to” suffer.

    May be Confuscianism with a little Taoist leaning to the side while squeaking some decentralization through in a successful Left-bloc government.

    The landlord, a self-employed man supporting his family comparitively comfortably, understood that people are aware of economic and climate implications yet they continue to walk into events.
    “Conditioned” was his word.

    AA is not for every one pointy one; long way round
    Consider work, shopping, adrenaline consider new memories consider forgiveness

    Great to hear of people digging up their lawn and planting veges. I have done it at few dwellings over recent years.I worked in the produce department of the local supermarket that came out the most expensive in recent nationwide survey; anecdotal support for how they screw the growers on price for access and then mark-up %%%%% sometimes.

    Pak N Save are also local, have very friendly staff and often have fresh brocoli and other vegetables at reasonable prices.

    An increasing amount of authorities are advising us of how much is determined;
    freedom within determinism was how the issue of free-will has been considered;
    plenty of nested
    hierarchies
    within
    Evolutionary Biology (big thanks to Hamilton,Cosmides and Toomey)

    back to the grass

  29. Rogue Trooper 30

    oops forgot, when I had to rewrite from memory what I had just written spontaneously,
    Flockie, I think your thoughts are often exceptional
    😉

  30. A Little lightness ,away from the daily worries .
    Who will be the man of the year? My choice a toss up,between Bernie Monk and Dr Lance O’Sullivan. . Woman of the year Helen Kelly . hands down !

  31. A Little lightness ,away from the daily worries .
    Who will be the man of the year? My choice a toss up,between Bernie Monk and Dr Lance O’Sullivan. . Woman of the year Helen Kelly . hands down !

  32. Draco T Bastard 33

    Wonder how long has John Banks been involved with Talent2?

  33. Tiger Mountain 34

    “Roll over Beethoven and tell Tchaikovsky the news”…

    The NZLP is now a tertiary party not the sole opposition. So, pull your heads in. 30 years almost of neo liberalism is way too many. Jobs Jolt? Middle class WFF but not for bennies?

    As a late 50s guy my partner tells me I am out of touch with where modern kiwis are at, heh, where is that though? Flat Screen Frenzy? Precarious minimum wage jobs you are meant to be grateful for?
    I still do not trust most dudes in suits, which ever one it is, end of.

    • Rogue Trooper 35.1

      cool.
      how ruthless are the beverage companies. Went for a carbonated soft-drink after the lawns
      Seven tall fridges, some double, in the superette and not a drink that did not have sugar or caffeine in it
      if sugar-free, they had caffeine. very few sugar-free options.ruthless

  34. Has anyone seen the story on, ‘no right turn’ concerning John Banks, apparantley he has a
    shareholding in Talent2 through a trust, he is also associate minister of education, (sorry
    can’t link it),this is the same crowd responsible for novapay.

  35. Draco T Bastard 37

    I’ve said for awhile that selling Telecom is the perfect example of the dead weight loss of profit. Well, The Greens went and put the real figures on it.:
    Dividends lost due to sale in 2011$millions: 16826

    So, if private business is so efficient and provides what the community needs without intervention then WTF are we paying Telecom another billion or so to put in place the network that they should have put in place with the ~$17b in dividends that they took from us?

    • rosy 37.1

      C’mon DtB you know why we’re gifting them another billion, why pay for it yourself when you can get the taxpayer to pay for you to increase your profits.

      The Greens need to pretty that data table up and get it out there.

      • kiwicommie 37.1.1

        Take from the cold bloody [hope they aren’t dead yet] hands of kiwis, and give to foreign owned corporations has been National policy for ages mate. 😉

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