Open mike 23/02/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 23rd, 2024 - 90 comments
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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step up to the mike …

90 comments on “Open mike 23/02/2024 ”

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  1. SPC 1
    23 February 2024 at 7:22 am

    Once again a National government poses a risk to our bio-security.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350189692/nzs-gatekeepers-governments-public-service-chopping-block

    Labour's world first effort to eliminate mbovis (this arose during a National administration in 2017).

    https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/mbovis-eradication-makes-gains-three-years-detection

    National in the 1990's – white clover leaf weevil, varrua jacobsini beemite and didymo.

    • Graeme 1.1
      23 February 2024 at 7:57 am

      Technically Customs doesn't deal with biosecurity, that's MPI's job. Customs check for illegal imports and collect taxes and duties on legal imports along with checks and clearance of exports.

      Two seperate agencies that work together, but with quite different responsibilities.

      Unfortunately having less Customs staff won't improve the border entry experience of Fred and Sue National Voter coming back from their tri annual overseas jaunt.

      • SPC 1.1.1
        23 February 2024 at 8:55 am

        Fair point, but customs will deal with people who bring in undeclared stuff – and if overworked and with queues and don't check ….

        • Hunter Thompson II 1.1.1.1
          24 February 2024 at 10:10 am

          There are plenty of Aussie visitors we definitely don't want to sneak in, such as cane toads. If we get those, our wildlife is stuffed.

          Mind you, it wouldn't matter to Tourism NZ. As far as that body is concerned, this country has no pollution, no child abuse and no criminal gangs.

          It's Paradise on Earth with the ability to accommodate any number of overseas visitors.

    • Mikey 1.2
      24 February 2024 at 9:35 am

      A cynic might suggest that NZ's drug problems have always served the nats well.

      • SPC 1.2.1
        24 February 2024 at 9:44 am

        Maybe reducing the capacity to prevent trafficking and to also allow sale of a product used to make meth is part of a competitive market policy …

        This in a world where one Mexican gang has been identified lacing cocaine and meth with fentanyl to ensure their consumers are totally addicted.

  2. SPC 2
    23 February 2024 at 7:31 am

    The ICJ report about lack of Israeli compliance with aid delivery is going to be withering (and it was one of two areas where the Israeli judge voted with the majority).

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350189708/children-starting-die-malnutrition-northern-gaza-food-crisis-worsens

    Background

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2024/02/israeli-forces-opened-fire-on-food-aid-truck-un-documents-and-satellite-analysis-reveals.html

    The UK uses Jordan Air Force Hercules to drop pallets with aid in north Gaza.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68360902

    • Subliminal 2.1
      23 February 2024 at 12:42 pm

      Yes. The situation is beyond dire. There is no attempt by the IDF or the government to hide the depravity of the soldiers behaviour. The Israeli minister of defence Yoav Gallant, did tell his soldiers at the beginning of the operation that all constraints were released. The rampant posting of war crimes by individual soldiers on tik tok can only be viewed as the result of these kinds of directives coming from the very top. Disturbingly, polling shows the vast majority of Israeli citizens are in favour of these types of actions. Looting of Palestinian property has become a commonplace soldierly activity as has the careful placement of explosives to bring down all the structures of a civil society that survived the bombing. This includes Universities and Mosques.

      https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/02/20/exp-israel-soldiers-jeremy-diamond-pkg-022009aseg1-cnni-world.cnn

      https://www.972mag.com/israeli-soldiers-looting-gaza/

    • Mikey 2.2
      24 February 2024 at 9:48 am

      The Israelis do seem to have major beef with UNRWA, what with a number of employees turning out to be massacre participants.

      • Anne 2.2.1
        24 February 2024 at 9:56 am

        11 of them I recall – out of a staff of 30,000 employees in the area. Are the other 29,989 also to be tarred with the same brush?

      • SPC 2.2.2
        24 February 2024 at 10:08 am

        The IDF includes those those shell or use helicopter drones to fire "nails" at civilians waiting for a truck delivering aid – to associate receiving aid from UNRWA with risk of death. These continuing events are going to impact on the ICJ follow up report.

        Israel would want to end UNRWA, even if it was full of pacifists who reported to Israel what they knew about Hamas (because they see continuing refugee claim status as inimical to their own political goals).

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    23 February 2024 at 8:11 am

    Cameras on fishing boats might have to go, regretfully, as a necessary cost-cutting measure, mind; just trimming the sails of state!

    "In 2017, Jones received a candidate donation of $10,000 from fishing company Talley's.

    The minister acknowledged previous involvement within the industry, but said industry interests would not influence policy."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/509580/rollout-of-cameras-on-fishing-boats-under-review

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    23 February 2024 at 8:18 am

    Brighten up, everyone!

    “Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness – and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we’re being brainwashed to believe.

    The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling – their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

    Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them.

    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.”

    Arundhati Roy

    • Ad 4.1
      23 February 2024 at 8:35 am

      We are not fighting ghosts, empires, autocrats, demons, kings, spells, or alien lizard people.

      We're not even a "we".

      Arundhati is doing a spooky and honestly it's not helpful.

      • weka 4.1.1
        23 February 2024 at 8:44 am

        it's empire that is killing the planet. We are most definitely fighting empire.

        'We' is all the people that are choosing life.

        What Roy is pointing to is the necessity of having a story that gives hope and shows a way through the current mess. The stories of how bad things are were necessary to wake people up, now we need stories of how things can work out.

        • Res Publica 4.1.1.1
          23 February 2024 at 9:03 am

          I'm deeply skeptical of anyone that tries to couch modern political discourse as some kind of titanic moral struggle between good and evil. It's basically warmed over dialectic theory leavened with a dash of Samuel Huntington's clash of civilisations.

          However, I do think the quote Robert's provided points to a real problem we (as in, the wider left) have in an increasingly divided world: the lack of a clear, coherent, consistent message that's backed up with actual political action that resonates with voters.

          • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1.1
            23 February 2024 at 9:19 am

            Good and evil? I don't see them mentioned. I see the Empire as the super-set and "we" as a subset; one wishing to make change from within; none of us are outside of the empire but each of us has the ability and opportunity to transform the medium we have co-created. As weka wrote, and I blather on about regularly, story is the technology we can each access and apply in order to dissolve what pretends to be the-only-world-that-can-be.

          • weka 4.1.1.1.2
            23 February 2024 at 9:37 am

            I'm deeply skeptical of anyone that tries to couch modern political discourse as some kind of titanic moral struggle between good and evil.

            That's nice, but what does it have to do with my comment?

            Maybe let's start with do you accept there is a climate ecological crisis that have the potential to collapse human civilisation?

            • Res Publica 4.1.1.1.2.1
              23 February 2024 at 11:32 am

              Maybe let's start with do you accept there is a climate ecological crisis that have the potential to collapse human civilisation?

              Absolutely! I just think the propensity to philosophise about the crises (because there is definitely more than one) we are facing is getting in the way of actually building a coherent, saleable policy programme to face them.

        • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.2
          23 February 2024 at 9:06 am

          The sound of her breathing is what these orcs seek to drown out with their petty cancelling; the more we despair and lose heart, the more they prosper.

          You have to tune your ears to hear her, over the clamour and glamour.

        • gsays 4.1.1.3
          23 February 2024 at 6:36 pm

          I am gonna beat an old drum here.

          It feels like references to the empire is others- farmers, the Chinese/Americans/Nact voters.

          Truth is we are the empire or at least give the empire its strength.

          Be it supermarket users, fossil fuel addicts, google customers, Trade Me traders. It's our decisions that keep giving the empire its power.

          Every dollar we spend is a political decision.

          • weka 4.1.1.3.1
            23 February 2024 at 6:51 pm

            It feels like references to the empire is others- farmers, the Chinese/Americans/Nact voters.

            Not those (well, maybe the Americans). Empire wasn't my word, but my reference to it was patriarchal, neoliberal capitalism. It's the system we use to run society. And yes, we all have varying degrees of choice within that. Voting is one that most people can utilise. Some people have lots of consumer choices, some have very little. Our choices give the system its strength and agency.

            Personal choice is necessary: to vote in central and local governments that will act for life, and all the other myriad ways in which we can have influence.

            It's not sufficient. Power relations exist and some people have a lot more power than others and are abusing it. Yes, they are the other, the ones who will kill us if they can. They have to be stopped.

            • gsays 4.1.1.3.1.1
              25 February 2024 at 12:58 pm

              Funny how these conversations can cause a bit of mental chewing gum that lasts all week.

              I've re-read your comment as I was under the illusion that voting was a way to defeat the empire. I've got it now.

              It occurred to me while stacking this seasons firewood away that we can't vote neo liberalism out of office. Sure tinker, as I did this election – Party Vote for Te Maori Party. It will be defeated by lots of little paper cuts, each of us not giving the system our attention/money/time, in whatever wee ways we can.

              "Yes, they are the other, the ones who will kill us if they can. They have to be stopped."

              I'm not so sure I want to spend too much energy stopping folk, I would rather be building what is needed when turning away from/fleeing The Empire. (Capital letters, that escalated quickly).

              It was pointed out to me here, I've forgotten who but I was a bit bemused with a chum who was boots 'n all at the Wellies occupation. It was suggested to me some of us are of the disposition to pull down, highlight the deficienciesd of the system while others are more likely to be building the alternative structires/systems.

              We are allies, just sometimes ego and politics get in the way.

          • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.3.2
            24 February 2024 at 8:59 am

            It's not just about money; imagine you whittled a wooden toy for your child; cleverly articulated with wheels that turn!

            Are you perpetuating the Empire by giving your young one such a model?

            I say, yes.

            If not a truck, a sheep then, a cow, a fishing boat…

            • weka 4.1.1.3.2.1
              24 February 2024 at 9:11 am

              what if the wooden toy was a bike?

              • Robert Guyton …
                24 February 2024 at 11:04 am

                Ha! You answered my question with a question 🙂

                I jest. Good question; where do we draw the line? Discretion is the challenge for every person. The Empire seems entirely unable to moderate itself; only individuals can do that (some of us do it poorly 🙂

                Despite having lauded bicycles since I was a boy and ridden them most of my life, I would wave them goodbye, in return for the kind of world I am envisaging 🙂

                • weka …
                  24 February 2024 at 4:25 pm

                  Likewise, for me it would be the internet I would give up in exchange for the world I imagine. Being able to imagine such a society stops one from going mad and it enables us to work for change even though we may not get the exact vision we have in mind. It's a big challenge for many, the idea of sacrifice and something better.

                  I think I would be ok with a handmade toy bike though.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    25 February 2024 at 12:53 pm

                    Wee clogs, perhaps 🙂

                    There has to be a limit – would you give your child a model battleship? A waka made from a craddy stick though, sure 🙂

                    The Chinese built single-large-wheeled barrows and should have declared those the pinnacle of wheeled vehicles; had they done that, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now 🙂

            • gsays 4.1.1.3.2.2
              24 February 2024 at 4:19 pm

              "Are you perpetuating the Empire by giving your young one such a model?"

              I don't think so. Or at least the empire is a tad weaker when you have made the toy. Opens up the possibility of the skills needed to acheive said whittling (material selection, knife sharp, imagination engaged, resilience, patience ), to be passed on.

              Money, or at least the need and certainly the love of it, is what keeps us bound to the empire/machine. I've never been happier at around day 8/9/10 of family and friends camping trip. When lots of those sacrifices noticed in the first few days are gone and forgotten. We are reliant on the food staples and what ever we can catch, swap or forage.

              • Robert Guyton …
                24 February 2024 at 6:13 pm

                I read what you say, but I don't accept your view 🙂

                Come on, a miniature truck is a hook for the child to normalise and accept the beasts of the Empire: fossil-fuel-powered, wheeled vehicles.

                Next, you'll be promoting Grand Theft Auto as a nice enough sort of a gift 🙂

                • gsays …
                  25 February 2024 at 8:00 am

                  Surely a wheeled vehicle is ok if, say. horse powered.
                  No GTA for me. (Abe’s Oddesey was more my cup of tea.)

                  In a similar vein, I have chosen to depower the empire by not watching the 6pm news (occasionally see it when I have tea with Mum, and despair), no FB, X, or any other social media (apart from rare questions on the Motobrick site), sharing as often as I can – eg eggs and green tomato chutney.

                  Independence and resilience of my water and electricity. Working on gas supply (Bio digester in a 1000 litre IBC then gas filtered and pumped into a queen size air bed).

                  I get yr point about getting back to basics, we are all going to have preferred ways of getting there. TBF, most would prefer not to have to 'get there'.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    25 February 2024 at 9:32 am

                    Or the wheels inside of a clock 🙂 Nothing wrong with keeping the time, is there? That's the sound of the Empire, measuring your days 🙂

                    Second hand books are great for children, right? The Little Engine That Could, The Little Golden Book of Cars and Trucks, Little Toot, Tootle, etc. etc. All propaganda for the Empire.

                    Back on track, anyone?

                    Don't get me started on Old MacDonald, who as we ALL know, had a farm 🙂 Many of the earliest books children hear and see, feature cows, sheep, pigs, horse, chickens. Phil (see below) might have something to say about indoctrination such as that 🙂

          • Phillip ure 4.1.1.3.3
            24 February 2024 at 10:49 am

            @ gsays…

            You left out flesh-addicts…

            Flesh-addiction is often factored out…largely by flesh-addicts..

            • gsays 4.1.1.3.3.1
              24 February 2024 at 4:21 pm

              True.

              I am surprised you didn't pick up on that when you went into bat for EVs a day or two ago.

            • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.3.3.2
              24 February 2024 at 6:16 pm

              "Flesh-addicts" is an othering that upsets at gut-level – a visceral pain for all readers who eat meat.

              I suggest it's unfair of you to use the term as part of your mindful approach to turning omnivores here toward a more restricted diet.

              • Phillip ure …
                24 February 2024 at 7:58 pm

                Um..no…I am describing what it is..

                It is an addiction….an addiction to eating the flesh and fat of animals…

                And if some addicts find that revelation (?) to be discomfiting…?…

                So be it…I would note it is far more discomfiting for the animals they kill/dismember..and then eat..

                And after lives of suffering/misery…

                Addicts hate being confronted with the realities of their addiction…

                Denial is part of the addict package..

                Not to mention the list of diseases..the fucking over of the environment…

                And just the other day the guardian had an article on forever plastics…(which also cause a raft of disease…)..

                And the main vehicle for their journey into humans is..(drumroll..!)..butter…

                And red meat…especially pork…

                So that great kiwi breakfast involving bacon and butter…must be like mainlining forever plastics..

                Digest that one the next time you tuck into some poor pig…(creatures smarter than dogs..say many..)

                So..y'know..!…all that up against some flesh-addicts shifting uneasily in their seats..?

                No match….flesh addicts it is..

                (Pray tell me how it isn't..)

                • Robert Guyton …
                  24 February 2024 at 8:32 pm

                  You are, but in doing so, you're alienating otherwise-friends.

                  What's the point?

                  To demonstrate that you are right?

                  • Phillip ure …
                    24 February 2024 at 9:07 pm

                    Why should what I say 'alienate otherwise friends'..?

                    I am just speaking the truth..and yes..the truth can be confronting..(I am sure that anyone (with a pulse) reading about the forever plastics in butter/pigs… won't be able to look at either without thinking 'forever plastics'..and if I have helped open their eyes to the realities/dangers of what they eat/feed their children…this is a good thing..surely..?

                    Tell me how it isn't..

                    And 'the point' is to point out these realities..of the widespread addiction to eating flesh/fat…

                    To maybe help people to think about these issues..

                    (Where else are they gonna get it..?…the denial is widespread/institutional..)

                    And yes robert..I am 'right' in my presentation of these arguments…

                    Nothing to do with ego…just dealing with the facts of the matter..

                    Facts that not many (otherwise self-regarding as ' good guys' face up to..eh..?..)

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      25 February 2024 at 9:22 am

                      Doubling-down, eh!

                      And with righteous indignation; how could you not bring those-who-are-wrong on-board!

                    • weka []
                      25 February 2024 at 9:53 am

                      for those of us who think eating food from animals is both ethical and a necessity (within a sustainable context), Phil is an ally.

                    • Phillip ure []
                      25 February 2024 at 10:53 am

                      Care to explain just how eating animals is both 'ethical'..and a 'necessity'..?

                      On the surface your claim just seems an exercise in self-justication…for your current carnivorous practises..

                      I would be interested to see if there are any other 'facts' behind/about it..

                      As far as I see it..you either chow down on animals..or you don't…and I am yet to hear any 'ethical' justifications for the former..

                      And how is eating animal flesh in any way 'sustainable'..?

                      Especially for the eaten animal..

                    • Phillip ure []
                      25 February 2024 at 10:59 am

                      @ robert..
                      No..just answering your response..

                      And just think how many people now know that butter/pig-flesh are riddled with forever plastics…

                      Gross..eh..?

                      And I would contend far more disturbing than the use of the term 'flesh-addict'…eh..?

                      That bacon butty will never again be the same..eh..?

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      25 February 2024 at 10:23 am

                      weka – as someone who objected to the use of the word, "strident" on TS because it inflames some readers here, you seem curiously relaxed about the use of "flesh addicts", which surely must offend many, many more.

                      I'm not saying Phil is wrong in his proposal.

                      I'm saying his use of that term is significantly counter-productive to the aims he professes to have.

                      I'm not personally upset by the term Phil uses. I just think others will be 🙂

                    • weka []
                      25 February 2024 at 10:43 am

                      Morena Robert.

                      Regarding Phil and your conversation here, I completely agree that the term flesh addict is going to put people off becoming vegan or moving towards becoming vegan. I thought you explained this clearly and well (I understood). Phil is a zealot and imo prefers his zealotry to real politik. This is what I meant when I said he is an ally to people like me. He’s more like to drive people to keep eating meat than the opposite.

                      Regarding TS and language, your fundamental mistake in these conversations about language is that you appear to think the issue is primarily one of people being offended. It’s not. People say offensive things on TS all the time, including one of the two trustees that owns the site. If I moderated on what offended me personally, a big chunk of comments would go, lol. It’s not about offending people, it’s about two things: class politics, and flaming the commentariat.

                      Regarding flaming, if Phil started calling specific people here flesh addicts, I expect most people (like me) would roll our eyes and focus on the politics. Some might respond by being offensive back eg talking about much they loved their BLT for breakfast this morning. Where that tips over into flaming (people being intentionally rude, mean or offensive with the goal of winding other people up and this being heated and likely to get out of control and absent any actual political discussion), mods would step in. But if politics are still being discussed that’s going to be more important than offence per se. Mods vary in where the line is on this. We currently moderate more tightly on offence intended to inflame than say 5 or 10 years ago.

                      Regarding class politics, this related to what might put people off from commenting or reading here. For instance, racism against Māori would put Māori people from being here. Not simply because it is personally offensive, but because racism is endemic in NZ and affects a whole class of people and has serious political and social consequences. I don’t consider omnivores to be akin to that.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      25 February 2024 at 11:09 am

                      Morena weka.

                      "This is what I meant when I said he is an ally to people like me."

                      I misunderstood your comment. Thanks for making that clear 🙂

                      Thanks also, for your fulsome explanation of language.

                    • Phillip ure []
                      25 February 2024 at 12:07 pm

                      Robert…do you not think compulsions to/inability to stop (even if riddled with forever plastics)…are markers of addiction..?

                      And if you can see they are…what moniker would you prefer I use..?

                      And I find any claims my words/arguments will stop people breaking those addictions..and becoming vegan..as laughable..

                      And I write in a calm manner/state…I am not agitated as I write these words…all I am doing is drawing attention to (uncomfortable to many) facts..

                      And irrefutable facts can help to focus/change the mind of the reader..

                      And that is what I am doing here… trying to focus/change minds..

                      And to bring it down to the personal level…I am bloody old…older than I thought I would ever reach..

                      I am fit/healthy..on no meds of any sort..I awake with a skip in my step..

                      And the only difference between me..and others my age in really fucked conditions..with weekly pill-boxes..is I don't use alcohol… haven't eaten flesh/fat for over 40 years…

                      And I look back to my 40's..when I met a handful of old vegans…men and women..then in their 70's…

                      And all of them fit/healthy..and glowing with like..

                      They are the role models I followed ..

                      And am so grateful to have arrived at a place similar to what they had/enjoyed ..

                      I know what I know robert..

                      And I would contend my arguments are pretty much irrefutable ..

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      25 February 2024 at 12:44 pm

                      Asking you not to name-shame your audience has opened your floodgates, Phil.

                      I was (note) only focused on that one matter. Your broader argument, I have no great issue with and feel no great need to engage with, and consequently, won't.

                    • Phillip ure []
                      25 February 2024 at 1:43 pm

                      Make sure you take your ball with you…

                      And thank you for being my foil on this..

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      25 February 2024 at 1:49 pm

                      Ball? Pig-skin, or plastic?

                      And foil?

                      I read your comment on addictive substances.

      • Robert Guyton 4.1.2
        23 February 2024 at 8:59 am

        Roy's language will seem foreign to some.

    • SPC 4.2
      23 February 2024 at 9:01 am

      That happened in the 19th C. Dickens exposing the nature of working class life at the home of empire (and a Queens foreign husband shocked by London's third world infrastructure).

      Some see the word as it is and say why and others see the way the world could be and say why not.

    • weston 4.3
      24 February 2024 at 10:52 am

      Beautiful quote from a beautiful and intelligent woman Robert hardly needs to be " interpreted " by anyone in my view.

  5. Phillip ure 5
    23 February 2024 at 9:21 am

    How can the latest child poverty stats not be a searing indictment of the bankrupt incrementalism dogma that clark/ardern/hipkins clung to..?

    And their collective failure to put right what shipley/richardson had wrought..

    It's all coming home to roost… isn't it..?

    And surely it is why labour must ditch that incrementalism that has plauged the party since the days of douglas..

    And reinvent itself as an effective social democrat party..with policies to match..

    Surely they won't just deliver more of the same..?

    • SPC 5.1
      23 February 2024 at 9:31 am

      The short term answer was a rent freeze, longer term FPA/Industry Awards.

      Over-reacting to pressure for more migrant workers did not help.

    • Bearded Git 5.2
      23 February 2024 at 9:57 am

      That won't happen under Hipkins, Phillip.

      • Tiger Mountain 5.2.1
        23 February 2024 at 10:15 am

        Yep, he is a neo Blairist hold out. Time for Chippy to move on.

        It is almost 40 years now of Roger ‘n’ Ruth, 1984–2024. The neo liberal state, contracting out, SOEs, State Sector Act, Reserve Bank Act, Refining NZ, market rents, two tier health system, and all the other travesties visited on the people’s infrastructure, services and resources.

        Greens and Te Pāti Māori are leading the way at the moment, NZ Labour can make a comeback and participate in the next Govt. if their Caucus drops Cap‘n’s calls and reverts to democracy of ordinary members. A grovelling apology to working class people would not go amiss.

        Each boomer funeral changes the landscape, the Three Amigos in office at the moment is hopefully their last gasp–how ridiculous, two Deputy PMs!

        • Anne 5.2.1.1
          23 February 2024 at 11:17 am

          "It is almost 40 years now of Roger ‘n’ Ruth, 1984–2024."

          I take the decline of democracy back further to 50 years when Muldoon took power. It was his reign of terror which led to the birth of Roger 'n' Ruth. Had Muldoon not introduced his failed 'think big' policies and his otherwise austere handling of the country's finances, Douglas would not have had much of a leg to stand on. He had been captured by extreme right economic thinking 5 decades ago, which we now know evolved into the global libertarian umbrella called the Atlas network.

          Muldoon was also responsible for introducing 'dirty politics' to NZ which had hitherto been largely absent from our political scene. It continued to flourish after he had gone and culminated in Nicky Hager's book "Dirty Politics". There are still untold stories dating back to those times which have been buried in layers of bureaucracy so they may never see the light of day.

          • roblogic 5.2.1.1.1
            23 February 2024 at 11:52 am

            The Atlas network is the velvet glove… the IMF, CIA and direct warfare are more assertive means of Empire-building

          • gsays 5.2.1.1.2
            25 February 2024 at 8:40 am

            I take yr wider point about Muldoon and the finances and D.P.

            Surely Think Big was anything but a failure, the Hydro has stood us in great stead today, Marsden Point held it's own (till sold transferred to the private sector by Labour then ignored by Labour so it could be decommissioned).

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Oil_Refinery

            Interestingly NZ First as part of the coalition agreement has an investigation to look at re-opening the refinery.

            https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/02/08/nz-firsts-doomed-deal-to-reopen-marsden-point-refinery/

            I do think we need to shift a little towards the way of doing some things the way we did pre '84 Labour. Like a lot of youth, as a nation, we lack resilience.

            A rag tag collection of pirates can lob rockets at ships and we have major shocks and delays in crucial supplies – pharmaceuticals for example.

            If we had a MoW, we could be building the two ports needed for the ferry upgrade and not be subject to Nicotine Willis conflating ferry cost with the port building.

            Neo-liberalism doesn't serve us (citizenry), it serves the 1%.

        • Ad 5.2.1.2
          23 February 2024 at 12:19 pm

          No point pining for pre-1984 New Zealand.

          • Res Publica 5.2.1.2.1
            23 February 2024 at 1:20 pm

            Exactly!

            We have to be laser focused on dealing with the political reality that exists here and now. Anything other than that is wasted time, energy, and intellect.

          • Tiger Mountain 5.2.1.2.2
            23 February 2024 at 1:34 pm

            The past is the past, and bad stuff happened there as various commissions of inquiry into state institutions demonstrate. Rape in marriage was only finally legislated against in 1986.

            My point is a call to action–Rogernomics has had more than its chance and failed miserably, whole generations of kids have student loans and live in rented dumps. Time for new gens to step up and do it differently.

            if there is any pining…it was fun driving down the Desert Road in a Ford Custom 300 V8 at sunrise en route to Wellington for a weekend trip–on a car plant workers wage–when there was just over 2 mill population…

            Rogernomes will pine too when they finally get retired…

      • Phillip ure 5.2.2
        23 February 2024 at 10:18 am

        I agree it won't happen under hipkins..

        Given parker resigned his ministry on a matter of principle after hipkins ditched all his work on wealth taxes..he would have to be a contender..?

        • alwyn 5.2.2.1
          23 February 2024 at 11:18 am

          I believe that the only Ministry Parker resigned from was the minor position of being Revenue Minister.

          That was the job that both Labour and National gave to Peter Dunne. It wasn't in Cabinet but gave Peter all the perks, and salary, of a Minister.

          Parker may have resigned the Revenue job but he retained the more significant positions and his job in Cabinet. If he had really quit on principle he would have resigned all his Ministerial positions and reverted to the back bench. I don't think that that was ever on the cards as it would have meant the loss of half his salary and all the perks of a Minister.

          • Subliminal 5.2.2.1.1
            23 February 2024 at 12:55 pm

            Well said alwyn. Until the Greens and/or Te Pati Maori can attract and maintain a significant voting block it is unlikely we will see any real change.

            • Res Publica 5.2.2.1.1.1
              23 February 2024 at 1:22 pm

              Or Labour manages to find something resembling moral courage. Preferably before they piss away the entire left's credibility.

          • Bearded Git 5.2.2.1.2
            25 February 2024 at 11:49 am

            That is a slur Alwyn-probably because you hate the fact that Parker supports a wealth tax.

            Parker may well be hoping for a change of leadership that will green light a WT. He might stay at parliament under those circumstances. After all this looks very much like a one-term government.

  6. SPC 6
    23 February 2024 at 12:45 pm

    Odysseus has successfully landed near the South Pole of the Moon, a monumental moment for US firm Intuitive Machines and for the wider US space sector.

    With the landing, Intuitive Machines has become the first private company to successfully land a spacecraft on the surface of the Moon.

    It's also a big day for Nasa and the US air and space community, which has not launched a successful mission to the Moon in over half a century.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/science-environment-68349490

    First one of the 3 private groups on a NASA contract to have a go.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67962397

  7. SPC 7
    23 February 2024 at 2:40 pm

    9000 New Zealand nurses have registered to work in Australia in the past 10 months.

    Appearing on AM's political panel on Friday, Jackson said the country needs to come up with new ideas to fix its nursing shortage.

    He said both Labour and National should look at a free education strategy for nurses that bonds them to New Zealand.

    1.nurses do not pay any TD while working in New Zealand – the government writes off half of the amount liable and the rest is added onto the interest free debt

    After 20 years work here, write any left off.

    nursing students are required to do 1100 hours of free, unpaid placements in a clinical setting.

    2.that's 6 months FT and is serious time during the course. Apprentices get 80% of the MW. About $20,000 for 1100 hours.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/02/willie-jackson-suggests-labour-national-work-together-on-free-education-bonding-scheme-to-keep-new-zealand-nurses.html

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