Open mike 26/04/2023

49 comments on “Open mike 26/04/2023 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. Karl Sinclair 1

   26 April 2023 at 8:09 am

   Love your thoughts peeps

   Glenn Greenwald “The Hypocrisy Slayer”, who tweeted this about Tucker Carlson

   Tucker was the cable host who most:

   • Opposed US proxy war in Ukraine;
   • Denounced CIA, FBI and DHS for its systemic lies and corruption;
   • Devoted himself to a pardon for Julian Assange;
   • Objected to regime change efforts in Cuba;
   • Criticized Trump Admin's militarism.

   https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1650539164440444930

   [link added]
   • weka 1.1

     26 April 2023 at 8:20 am

     We require a link for quotes, please supply the link to the actual tweet, thanks.
     • Karl Sinclair 1.1.1

       26 April 2023 at 8:48 am

       Just go to twitter, search Glenn Greenwald and go to the post sent at 04:36 on 25/04/23

       Enjoy

       [it’s not optional, please supply the link for your quote. The onus is on the commenter to do this, not expect mods or commenters to. Thanks – weka]
       • weka 1.1.1.1

         26 April 2023 at 9:02 am

         mod mote.
       • Karl Sinclair 1.1.1.2

         26 April 2023 at 9:16 am

         Hi Weka,

         my apologies… here’s the tweet

         https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1650539164440444930
         • weka 1.1.1.2.1

           26 April 2023 at 9:47 am

           thanks 👍 It also gets better debate because people can see the context (and in this case, the thread).
   • Karl Sinclair 1.2

     26 April 2023 at 9:00 am

     Glenn Greenwalds analysis of Tucker Carlson quite eye opening considering the view most left wing people would have of him. In fact totally gob smacked by his wider analysis highlighting how little debate or decent there is the Democrat party compared to Republicans.

     I would highly recommend sitting down with a nice cup of tea and maybe some chocky bikkies and watching it. Would really like to hear everyone’s view.

     https://rumble.com/v2k86j4-system-update-show-77.html
     • Sanctuary 1.2.1

       26 April 2023 at 9:53 am

       The cheese slid of Greenwald's cracker some time ago.
     • SPC 1.2.2

       26 April 2023 at 7:18 pm

       His example of Democratic Party conformity, as distinct from diversity within the GOP, is support for the President's foreign policy call for funding aid to Ukraine.

       Why not universal opposition from the GOP for the President's economic policy and the Sinema and Manchin providing dissent from his own party?

       It's not convincing.
       • SPC 1.2.2.1

         26 April 2023 at 7:37 pm

         Then there was the praise for Carlson for criticising the GOP establishment (as per Ukraine) against the neo-liberal establishment (bi-partisan). It was part of their @Fox News support for Trump (who is popular with the audience).

         Greenwald is from the historic liberal dissent against the military industrial complex and deep state foreign adventurism stable looking for a match with selfish USA isolationism (abandoning international obligation) and is partnering up with like alt media commentators on Rumble – such as Gubbard and maybe soon Carlson?

         Carlson's support for Assange was also connnected to Trump also considering a pardon for Assange.

         The irony is that Carlson has a low opinion of Trump (and has recently admitted that his public commentary @ Fox News support was not real) though it would seem he used Trump as cover for his out of right wing step opinions on Ukraine and Assange.
   • Karl Sinclair 1.3

     26 April 2023 at 10:11 am

     In the context of Glenn’s statements and the leftist views that Tucker Carlson is “Far Right”, (even though he is anti war), I wonder how Jacinda Ardern would assess Glenn / Tucker given her new appointment at Harvard University.

     “Former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has been appointed appointed to a fellowship at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society, based at the law school, where she will study ways to improve content standards and platform accountability for extremist content online, and examine artificial intelligence governance and algorithmic harms.” Link given below

     I wonder if Jacinda will suffer any cognitive dissonance given she fell in lock step with Democrats supporting the War in Ukraine (offering no diplomatic solution). Current estimates of casualties at 354,000. Link given below.

     Would like to hear your opinions…

     Do you think Jacinda, Labour, National, Radio NZ, TVNZ, etc might have to self sensor? Or maybe they are all to busy figuring out what the definition of a woman is?

     https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/488678/jacinda-ardern-to-take-up-fellowships-at-harvard-university#:~:text=Former%20Prime%20Minister%20Jacinda%20Ardern,the%20Center%20for%20Public%20Leadership.

     https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-war-already-with-up-354000-casualties-likely-drag-us-documents-2023-04-12/
     • RedLogix 1.3.1

       26 April 2023 at 10:32 am

       Yes I was just reading that potentially sinister development myself. The application of AI to censor social media platforms will completely destroy any remaining utility they have, except to serve the interests of those who control the algorithms.

       And you can be certain none of us will be asked.
       • Karl Sinclair 1.3.1.1

         26 April 2023 at 11:18 am

         Redlogix….

         Is this what your talking about:

         Billionaire Twitter owner Elon Musk is again sounding warning bells on the dangers of artificial intelligence to humanity — and claiming that a popular chatbot has a liberal bias that he plans to counter with his own AI creation.

         https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/elon-musk-hell-create-truthgpt-counter-ai-bias-98654332
       • AB 1.3.1.2

         26 April 2023 at 11:23 am

         …serve the interests of those who control the algorithms

         Which means they will need to be regarded as public utilities serving the common good , i.e. not in private hands and at arms' length from the state with transparent operating principles and democratic accountability.

         This is a problem as old as the invention of newspapers, and one that we have never solved satisfactorily. The technology just hugely increases the scale of it.
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 1.3.2

       26 April 2023 at 11:12 am

       " (even though he is anti war)"

       Anyone who wants peace on Russia's terms, is anything but "anti war".
       • Karl Sinclair 1.3.2.1

         26 April 2023 at 11:21 am

         " (even though he is anti war)"

         Anyone who wants peace on NEOCONs terms, is anything but "anti war".
         • Res Publica 1.3.2.1.1

           26 April 2023 at 1:09 pm

           Anyone who wants peace on NEOCONs terms, is anything but "anti war".

           I don't think trying to defend Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity is being pro-war. On the contrary, it's a sign of good sense and clear-headed foreign policy that seeks to preserve the lives and security of millions of people.

           There is no "diplomatic solution" to the conflict that doesn't involve seriously undermining Ukraine's ability to function as a sovereign state, or throwing it to the wolves. And if we purport to believe in freedom, justice, and a reasonably fair international order we must be prepared to fight for it.

           I am by no means a believer in history being a perfect template to handle the present or future. But there were millions of Britons and Frenchmen in 1938-39 unwilling to die for Danzig. Or Prague.

           Sacrificing Czechoslovakia and only half-heartedly supporting Poland to please them simply meant that even more millions died for Paris, London, Moscow, and even Berlin.
           • Karl Sinclair 1.3.2.1.1.1

             26 April 2023 at 2:02 pm

             Res Publica,

             Good comments, and 100% agree with you if it were as straightforward as you have laid out. If this was a here comes Hitler moment you’d be spot on.

             Unfortunately the situation is more complex and grey.

             Its because of this historical complexity and uncertainty my inclination was the Minsk accords were the way to go. The current cost benefit of dead just not worth the fight.

             For example and being overly simplistic take just one factor into consideration (remember many were being persecuted by ethnic Ukrainians circa 2014-present:

             Russians are the largest ethnic minority in Ukraine. This community forms the largest single Russian community outside of Russia in the world. In the 2001 Ukrainian census, 8,334,100 identified as ethnic Russians (17.3% of the population of Ukraine); this is the combined figure for persons originating from outside of Ukraine and the Ukrainian-born population declaring Russian ethnicity.[1]

             https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine

             That’s not even taking into consideration the US/Wests motives

             Cheers
             • Res Publica …

               26 April 2023 at 3:26 pm

               I think you'll find the other 83%ish of Ukranians have run their own analysis and firmly decided not being reabsorbed into a revanchist Russian neo-empire is worth the cost.

               It's their country. They're the ones fighting and dying for it.

               Irridentism isn’t a valid casus belli. But it is a convenient one if you’re a big power with smaller neighbours with sizable ethnic minorities you can come in and “rescue”

               If you’re going to sceptical of the west’s motivations, then you should probably ask some questions of the Russians. After all, they’re the ones that actually decided to invade another country.
               • Karl Sinclair …

                 26 April 2023 at 4:02 pm

                 Hi Res Publica,

                 Hmmmm…. assuming Ukraine being absorbed by the west is a good thing.
                 Nothing to see there a?

                 Ukraine’s anti-worker law comes into effect

                 Law 5371, which strips back labour protections, has been ratified. Is there more to come? On 17…. which removes rights for workers at small and medium-sized companies. It will be effective for as long as the country is under martial law – a qualification added at the last minute, under pressure from trade unions…….

                 The Ukrainian government has claimed it is trying to alleviate the difficulties faced by companies in wartime. However, it first tried to introduce the new law in 2021.

                 https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-labour-law-wrecks-workers-rights/

                 Zelenskyy spoke during the meeting of the National Association of State Chambers about how “American business can become a locomotive of global economic growth” after the war ends, according to a press release. He specifically thanked BlackRock, JPMorgan and Goldman Sachs for their cooperation with Ukraine in the country’s plans for rebuilding after the war.

                 https://dailycaller.com/2023/01/24/zelenskyy-big-banks-ukraine-financial-support/

                 Of course no disinformation and misinformation would be spread by the West/USA…. It’s just all about loving your neighbour
               • Ngungukai …

                 27 April 2023 at 5:33 am

                 Stalin killed millions of ethnic Ukrainians after WW2 he made Hitler look like an Angel, so there was some severe disturbance to the sociological make of Ukraine, not sure on the number of Ukrainians disposed of by Stalin maybe someone on this site could let me know 6 million Plus + ????
             • Francesca …

               26 April 2023 at 3:37 pm

               And those Russians in the Donbas happen to be there , not because they emigrated there, but because they had always lived there , for generations

               It was Lenin who annexed if you like , that part of Russia into Ukraine in an attempt to balance Ukraine , so that it had an industrial base, and then proceeded to develop that industry further ., making Ukraine at the end of the Soviet Union a major producer of machinery and weapons

               In the 1920's Ukraine expanded into Russia,.No one ever thought that Ukraine under a new putsch government would start hankering for NATO membership , denying Russian language rights and from 2014 attacking and killing Donbas rebels and citizens.

               If only the Minsk agreements had been implemented, in good faith, none of this terrible death would be happening
               • Belladonna …

                 26 April 2023 at 5:23 pm

                 If only Putin would accept the sovereign right of Ukraine, in good faith, none of this terrible death would be happening.
               • RedLogix …

                 26 April 2023 at 9:23 pm

                 In the 1920's Ukraine expanded into Russia

                 In the 1920's Stalin controlled everything. I am not sure how this is relevant to 2020.

                 No one ever thought that Ukraine under a new putsch government

                 The current President and govt was formed in 2019 by a strong majority in an election widely considered free and fair.

                 would start hankering for NATO membership

                 Which is would be the only rational response to Russia invading and annexing Crimea in 2014

                 denying Russian language rights

                 Misrepresentation – anyone has the right to speak any language they like in Ukraine. Even Zelensky's native language is Russian. They simply made Ukrainian the official language. Exactly as almost all other nations do.

                 and from 2014 attacking and killing Donbas rebels and citizens.

                 Which selectively ignores the 'little green men' and weapons Putin poured over the border in order to ensure conflict. And despite this, after a surge in late 2104 by 2020 the fighting had almost completely died down – so Putin seeing his proxy strategy of using Donbass separatists to gain territory – sent in the Russian military and war criminals like the Wagner thugs to complete the job.

                 In my view the entire conflict would not have happened if Putin had abided by the 1996 Belgrade Memorandum whereby Russia was obliged to protect Ukraine sovereignty.
2. weka 2

   26 April 2023 at 8:14 am

   Black people: ‘Stop doing black-face in entertainment’

   🙎🏻‍♂️ ‘OK’

   Indigenous people: ‘Stop using caricatures of us for Halloween costumes’

   🙎🏻‍♂️ ‘OK’

   Women; ‘Stop saying men in dresses are actually women’

   🤬 ‘GO TO HELL GENOCIDING HATEFUL TERF BIGOTS!’

   This is misogyny, unacknowledged. There’s a lot of critique of drag Queen performance since it moved out of adult entertainment clubs. The principle also applies to AGP males/cross dressers since the shift trans women are literal women.

   Calling drag womanface is also a problem because it confuses issues not well understood about black culture, but I think this tweets gets it right in how to make the point,

   https://twitter.com/theblackcat02/status/1650927492797005824
3. arkie 3

   26 April 2023 at 9:15 am

   Floridian Surgeon General caught altering COVID vaccine studies to fit his worldview:

   Florida Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo personally altered a state-driven study about Covid-19 vaccines last year to suggest that some doses pose a significantly higher health risk for young men than had been established by the broader medical community, according to a newly obtained document.

   Ladapo’s changes, released as part of a public records request, presented the risks of cardiac death to be more severe than previous versions of the study. He later used the final document in October to bolster disputed claims that Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines were dangerous to young men.

   …

   The newly released draft of the eight-page study, provided by the Florida Department of Health, indicates that it initially stated that there was no significant risk associated with the Covid-19 vaccines for young men. But “Dr. L’s Edits,” as the document is titled, reveal that Ladapo replaced that language to say that men between 18 and 39 years old are at high risk of heart illness from two Covid vaccines that use mRNA technology.

   https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/24/florida-surgeon-general-covid-vaccine-00093510
4. Ad 4

   26 April 2023 at 10:46 am

   Great to see Ardern getting a decent post at Harvard Uni, but I sure hope PM Hipkins taps her for something more directly in NZ"s interests before her plate fills up.

   Too high an international player to see gone.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/ardern-announces-new-role-harvard-university

   In her Instagram post, Ardern explained that the role would see her take up the first tech governance leadership fellow at Harvard's Berkman Klein Center and work with its research community.

   She will also be involved in work around the growth of generative AI tools.

   From the ODT:

   "As part of her role, Harvard has revealed Ardern will be studying ways to improve content standards and platform accountability for extremist content online, and also to examine artificial intelligence governance and algorithmic harms.

   In her social media post, the former leader said she’d hinted at her plans to do "some speaking, teaching, and learning" alongside her previously announced jobs working as a special envoy to the Christchurch Call and joining the Earthshot board.

   "Harvard have been a really important partner in the Christchurch Call work," said Ardern.

   "My semester there later this year will also be an opportunity to take up the first tech governance leadership fellowship at the Berkman Klien Center."

   Ardern said she will also be sharing her experiences at the historic university campus through her time speaking both in New Zealand and abroad."

   Congratulations Jacinda on your appointment. Make sure you are not lost to the service of New Zealand.
5. arkie 5

   26 April 2023 at 12:52 pm

   Why is this acceptable? The laws must be changed to make taxation fair:

   A report prepared on behalf of the Government says high wealth families pay a median effective tax rate of just 8.9%, as they earn significant income from untaxed capital gains.

   The High-Wealth Individuals Research Project was conducted by Inland Revenue to fill a data gap in tax records and was released on Wednesday morning.

   Revenue Minister David Parker said there was accurate data on the wealth of more than 90% of New Zealand’s population from household surveys, but little information on the total income of the wealthiest families and the taxes they paid.

   …

   New Zealand has a progressive income tax system, so a person with a taxable income of $50,000 would pay 16% in tax, while someone with $100,000 would pay 24%. However, when you calculate the median effective tax rate of high-wealth families using economic income – which includes capital gains and property ownership benefits – it plunges to just 8.9%.

   https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/120924/revenue-minister-david-parker-says-ird-survey-showing-wealthy-kiwis-pay
   • Herodotus 5.1

     26 April 2023 at 2:27 pm

     And when many of us face in real terms diminishing value of homes/ kiwi saver etc, from the destructive impacts of inflation ? caused in part the result of govt policy and Reserve Bank action what then? The govt was warned of what the result of their momentary policy. Still they were happy to feed the beast then without implementing any measures to temper this action at the time. And now we see that they are trying to show some understanding ?? What about the likes of tax creep and other actions, all we hear is the need for the govt to increase the tax take. ?

     They have SCREWED the population, and now for a bit of distraction in their attempt into holding power at all costs – And we have some who are being fooled into thinking that they are acting for their benefit. Where is the talk of what portion of the GDP should be captured by the govt by tax, duties etc then how and who pays ??

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300223358/reserve-bank-repeatedly-warned-government-money-printing-would-lead-to-house-price-inflation
     • alwyn 5.1.1

       26 April 2023 at 5:21 pm

       You talk about making a loss in "real terms" on the value of your house or Kiwisaver.

       Did the IRD make their calculation on real terms when they talk about capital gains or have they done in it "nominal terms"? I haven't found where they have actually released the report and have only seen what Parker claims is happening. He isn't saying.

       If I owned shares worth $1 million and they paid me a dividend of $20K during the next year and at the end of the year the shares were worth $1.05 million I haven't made anything at all if inflation was 7.2% as it currently is.

       I guess you would want to tax me on those spurious capital gains of $50,000 though would you?
       • SPC 5.1.1.1

         26 April 2023 at 5:29 pm

         Why should tax on CG be any different to tax on interest income?

         After all interest merely maintains the value of the cash asset … .

         With shares, there is both paid dividends and share value (over time) gain.
         • Herodotus 5.1.1.1.1

           26 April 2023 at 6:59 pm

           "After all interest merely maintains the value of the cash asset … ". That STATEMENT is CRAP. Interest currently for a 12 month term is 5.7%. Less tax depending upon your personal rate say 30% (earning 48-70k) an after tax rate of 4%. Inflation is guessed at to be 7%. So any deposit reduces in relative value !!!

           I hope my little involvement has added to you to widen your knowledge 😇

           https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/series/households/household-inflation-expectations

           https://www.asb.co.nz/term-investments?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIloHf2_rG_gIVh6GWCh3N2QBqEAAYASAAEgJKrPD_BwE&fm=header:menu:term_investments&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIloHf2_rG_gIVh6GWCh3N2QBqEAAYASAAEgJKrPD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!7833!3!655514953568!e!!g!!asb%20term%20deposit&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad=1
           • SPC 5.1.1.1.1.1

             26 April 2023 at 7:46 pm

             Pretty sad effort at misdirection to score an imaginary point.

             Alwyn was objecting to payment of tax on any CG that was lower than the rate of inflation. Yet all interest income is already subject to income tax despite the fact it is lower than the inflation rate.
             • Herodotus …

               26 April 2023 at 8:23 pm

               You made the comment that interest maintains the value- then you comment "Yet all interest income is already subject to income tax despite the fact it is lower than the inflation rate.' the 2 statements do not hold true under current economic conditions, and for the cash to maintain value – And I have shown this is not the case- Yet you are not willing to accept this. Try to be consistent in your comments ??
               • SPC …

                 26 April 2023 at 8:30 pm

                 No, I said

                 Why should tax on CG be any different to tax on interest income?

                 After all interest merely maintains the value of the cash asset …

                 Your parsing out of context, leads to irrelevancy.
     • SPC 5.1.2

       26 April 2023 at 5:27 pm

       Someone using that response to the facts about our tax regime, has interests to protect.

       I'm guessing multiple property property ownership, and a vote for NACT, to restore the mortgage interest payment as a cost against rent income and to block any chance of a CG/land/wealth taxation.

       And proposing an alliance with those on higher incomes who are most advantaged by a tax threshold adjustment and who have private health insurance and schooling (so do not care about underfunded public services).

       And cry, blame government for inflation – when it's below the OECD average.

       I note your main concern about inflation is that it reduces the value of property in real terms.

       Your linked article is dated Feb 2021. Most of the increase in house prices from April 2020 to Dec 2021, occurred after February 2021. The correction in house prices Dec 2021 to March 2023 merely takes us back to Feb 2021.

       So property values are still above where they were in March 2020.

       History. 1976-1981 5 years of inflation and wage growth and a flatline to property values. We are currently building more houses than any time since the 1970's. So hopefully we can repeat that period and restore connection between incomes and property values. Those with altruism, empathy for others would want housing to become more affordable – not those who do not even want to pay tax on their CG and wealth.

       The UK has higher home ownership than us and its increasing, ours is lower and still declining. Which society has a class system now?
       • SPC 5.1.2.1

         26 April 2023 at 8:24 pm

         the average price nationwide now down 17% from the November 2021 peak but still 17% above March 2020 levels pre-pandemic.

         Auckland prices have fallen 22% to sit just 9% up from three years ago. Only Wellington with a 24% decline from the peak sits less above March 2020 with just a 7% gain.

         https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/43472
     • SPC 5.1.3

       26 April 2023 at 7:56 pm

       The RBG removed all criteria for borrowing from banks in 2020 and most of 2021 – only restoring them in November 2021.

       Current LVR settings were put in place November 2021 when risks were elevated. This followed a period in 2020 and 2021 when they were removed completely.

       20% for first home buyers and 40% for investors

       The Reserve Bank (RBNZ) is proposing to loosen loan-to-value ratio (LVR) restrictions, which would make it easier for prospective borrowers to get a mortgage.

       Increasing from 10 to 15% new mortgage lending to owner-occupiers with deposits of less than 20 per cent.

       Increasing from 5 to 10 per cent of a bank’s new mortgage lending to investors with deposits of less than 40 per cent.

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/rbnz-proposes-easing-banks-mortgage-lending-restrictions/ARZYDVVBQVE35KJXH5I7UIV5S4/
   • Ad 5.2

     26 April 2023 at 2:38 pm

     +100

     Needs a Standard post on tax all by itself.
6. dvT 6

   26 April 2023 at 12:53 pm

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131862801/richest-kiwis-pay-about-half-as-much-tax-on-the-dollar-as-everyone-else

   'the wealthiest New Zealanders pay on average​ only 8.9% tax on their income, \

   received about 80% of their income in form of capital gains, much of which was earned through trusts and companies and which was often untaxed.

   Does that mean unrealised or realised capital gains? (I suspect unrealised gains)
   • Bearded Git 6.1

     26 April 2023 at 4:58 pm

     If the owners of assets do not want to be taxed on unrealised capital gain they should be forced to sell the asset in question at the value before the unrealised gain was made.

     For instance if a second house (not the owners main residence) increases in value from $500k to $1m then a CGT of 25% could apply i.e. CGT of $125k. If the owner chooses not to pay this then legislation should be enacted to force him to sell the house for $500k.
     • dvT 6.1.1

       26 April 2023 at 5:03 pm

       Second house, rented out. So what do you think would happen to the rents?
       Say that gain is over 10yr, 12500$ per year or 240$ extra a week.
     • alwyn 6.1.2

       26 April 2023 at 5:24 pm

       Why are you excluding the main residence as you call it? If you want to have a CGT then you should have it on everything shouldn't you? Or do you own a house and want to avoid paying taxes for your own assets?
     • Belladonna 6.1.3

       26 April 2023 at 5:32 pm

       The only people wealthy under that regime would be the valuers.
       Imagine having to re-value every asset annually!
   • Belladonna 6.2

     26 April 2023 at 5:41 pm

     According to the (very once-over-lightly) discussion on RNZ this afternoon – it was unrealized (and therefore theoretical) capital gains.

     And, almost certainly reflects the skyrocketing property market of the last 5+ years (with the heat still not taken out of it, by the drop in the last few months).

     Really, this is not news. Mum and Dad who have owned their own home for the last 20 years, have also 'benefitted' from this skyrocketing notional capital gain. Their standard 3-bedroom-house is worth well north of 1 million.

     Of course, if/when they sell (usually to downsize), they'll be buying in the same market – and will have little nest-egg left over (especially if they're going into the retirement village rort).

     Given that they're well outside the bright-line test (and also if they live in the house) – their 'capital gain' will also be untaxed when they sell.
     • SPC 6.2.1

       26 April 2023 at 5:52 pm

       It sort of depends on how they identified "wealthy New Zealanders". I doubt it was home ownership itself.
       • SPC 6.2.1.1

         26 April 2023 at 5:57 pm

         A 2020 law change gave IRD new powers to require the wealthiest families to provide their earnings information. After a two-year investigation, the High Wealth Individuals Research Projects found untaxed capital gains from businesses, property and other investments skew the tax system in favour of the country's most wealthy.

         Revenue Minister David Parker said this "internationally ground-breaking research" revealed a "large differential between the tax rates ordinary New Zealanders pay on their full income compared with the super-wealthy".

         https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/488705/wealthiest-paying-tax-at-much-lower-rate-than-most-other-new-zealanders-ird-report
         • Belladonna 6.2.1.1.1

           26 April 2023 at 7:08 pm

           From this article, Parker and the HWIRP are still not clear whether this is an actual capital gain (i.e. the HWI have sold the business, land, property, artwork or shares, and therefore this is 'real' cash in hand); or it is theoretical (the value of the business, land or shares, etc. has theoretically increased – so no actual cash in hand).

           [My understanding from the tax expert interviewed on RNZ, is that it is the latter – a theoretical increase in value, rather than actual cash-in-hand]

           If you wish to capture the former, then you're looking at a CGT (and, presumably, not just on high wealth individuals). No issue with valuation – the price paid is clear. However, the tax take is lumpy – only taken when the asset is sold.

           If you wish to tax the latter, then you're looking at some form of wealth tax – with all the associated valuation issues: who estimates the value? how often? what happens if the value decreases (as house prices have over the last year)? what happens to the asset rich, but cash poor? (granny tax issue), etc.
   • SPC 6.3

     26 April 2023 at 5:45 pm

     You will be able to tell the Kiwiblog readers by their trained parrot responses.

     DPF taught them to argue that a fair CGT should include the family home (there is no CGT regime in the OECD that includes the family home – because that is both unpopular and also unfair as it lowers equity in the home with every change in location – obstructs movement of labour).

     Another one is inflation, and accounting for inflation to enable untaxed compound CG at the rate of inflation, to reduce the amount collected by a CGT.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS