Open mike 28/03/2024

95 comments on “Open mike 28/03/2024 ”

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1. bwaghorn 1

   28 March 2024 at 6:22 am

   https://www.apptax.nz/

   Taxpayers union, running an attack on national 🤣
   • Gosman 1.1

     28 March 2024 at 9:44 am

     Why is this funny? They are doing what their remit is. They are attacking areas of government taxation they think are harmful.
     • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 9:48 am

       It's funny because they are eating their own.
       • James Simpson 1.1.1.1

         28 March 2024 at 11:56 am

         I don't like the taxpayers union and sit at the other end of the political spectrum from them. But what I find refreshing is a lobby group calling the government to account, despite it being a government that they voted for.

         It annoys me when people support or oppose simply based on what party has proposed it.

         A perfect example is increasing the age of Super. Labour proposed increasing the age the last time it was in opposition, and Key opposed the age increasing. You just have to trawl through the Standard archives to see so many people on the left supporting that Labour position back then, simply because Labour proposed it and Key opposed it.

         Then the parties flipped. National in opposition wanted to increase the age, and Labour under Jacinda opposed the increase. And guess what, all the respective supporters flipped their views too for no reason other than what their team was saying. Tribal politics at its worse.

         So even though I disagree with the Taxpayers Union, it is refreshing seeing a group being consistent in their views. They stick to their vision and will tell their government that they oppose something.

         We work to expose excessive and wasteful government spending. We want more transparency and accountability in how taxpayers’ money is spent and our politicians spending money as if they’d worked as hard as the taxpayers who earned it. We believe that new taxes should only be introduced when there are equal decreases in other taxes
         • Obtrectator 1.1.1.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 12:07 pm

           I too detest this mindless tribalism. No one person or party has a monopoly on good ideas (or bad ones).
         • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1.1.2

           28 March 2024 at 12:26 pm

           I've always opposed the age increasing and would put it back to 60. All increasing the age did was make people who were unwell from 60 to 65 have to live off $140-00 a week less and use up their savings and get called bludgers.

           Just tax more highly those who can still work and wish to do so. Give people choices. Isn't 40 years servitude to capitalism enough.

           Retire, volunteer in the community or work as much as you like.
           • SPC 1.1.1.1.2.1

             28 March 2024 at 1:11 pm

             I would pay super rate benefits to those unable to work 60 to 65.

             I would also pay those with disability the super rate.

             I would afford it by ending super for those over 65, with a mortgage free home and $100,000 + in work income. – circa $1B pa.

             https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350177826/50000-people-earn-over-100k-get-pension-commission
           • tWig 1.1.1.1.2.2

             28 March 2024 at 4:23 pm

             Because Maori women and men have significantly decreased life expencies compared with the majority of NZers, it is also racist.

             "Life expectancy at birth was 73.4 years for Māori males in 2017–2019 (up 3.1 years from 2005–2007), and 77.1 years for Māori females (up 2.0 years from 2005–2007). In comparison, non-Māori males are expected to live to 80.9 years, while non-Māori females are expected to live to 84.4 years."

             Stats NZ

             6-7 fewer years of drawing Super. Money saver for the govt.

             A Guardian article last year on the UK increase in age limit for the pension (legislated 20 years ago and stepping up now), is also classist, as those with lower incomes over their lifetime and who have done physical labour also have decreased lifespans, compared with well-nourished middle classes. The actual lifespan stats for working class UK citizens was a bit horrifying, actually, from what I remembered.
             • Descendant Of Smith …

               28 March 2024 at 8:17 pm

               Most of the men in my family have not reached not reach NZS age. Even the fit ones. Dad got a couple of years.
         • Ed1 1.1.1.1.3

           28 March 2024 at 1:53 pm

           I think of the NZ Taxpayer Union as being New Zealand's currently most successful Political Action Group. They have raised significant money and used that well to "foment mischief" for the parties of the left through media campaigns attributed to a variety of names, but economic policy has always been clear – they will push National and NZ First to accept their well thought through policies to move as much taxation to "user pays" as possible (including to local rates), to reduce services from government, and turn as many as possible service providers into "for profit" entities. The campaign against App fees was initially directed towards international organisations such as Facebook and Twitter, and there were links to charging them for use of New Zealand press material. This campaign highlights Air BnB, Book – a – Batch, Uber, Ola and Delivereasy – it is not clear to me whether these are international companies or local companies (possibly owned by an international company). Essentially ACT don't care about NZ Media – they want a compliant population delivering to their wealthy donors. Seymour has therefore tended to be more effective than Luxon or Peters – he has a narrower focus and just doesn't care about some issues. They are exploiting the loophole that money to them will not need to be declared – and they visibly support both National and ACT through paying for Curia Polling, and creating a series of other organisations to front campaigns. As far as taxes are concerned, if these companies are making sure they incur no profits in NZ, do we care of they pay some taxes that stay here and make it harder to compete with New Zealand companies in the areas of holiday homes and takeaway deliveries and taxis?
     • bwaghorn 1.1.2

       28 March 2024 at 12:05 pm

       Just amuses me ,didn't they take covid rescue money ?
       • James Simpson 1.1.2.1

         28 March 2024 at 3:38 pm

         What does that have to do with attacking National?
         • bwaghorn 1.1.2.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 4:55 pm

           Nothing but shows they are full of shit, they were straight in for a taxpayer hand out when I can't see how covid affects them and even if it did affect them they should have sucked ot up.
2. Sanctuary 2

   28 March 2024 at 8:21 am

   That's a lovely church you've got out there in Wiri Brian, it would be a pity if something bad happened to it.
   • tc 2.1

     28 March 2024 at 8:59 am

     IMO we are seeing what happens when bullying anti social behavior goes unchecked and gets oxygen from the MSM.
     • Sanctuary 2.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 9:13 am

       Absolutely, they feel they've been green lighted by government ministers to put their assorted resentments into actions. Some dude wearing a baseball cap and a mask and driving a big SUV apparently smashed up a whole lot of electric charging points in Drury yesterday, these dumb fucks feel untouchable right now thanks to Seymour and Peters and our utterly useless PM.
       • Mikey 2.1.1.1

         28 March 2024 at 12:46 pm

         The big SUV would have a number plate, so the dude might find he's less untouchable than he thought.
         • Obtrectator 2.1.1.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 1:45 pm

           Ah, but prove he was driving it at the time ….
       • Cricklewood 2.1.1.2

         28 March 2024 at 8:33 pm

         I guess its more abrupt but no different to the council removing the chargers from the Museum caepark in the domain.
     • weka 2.1.2

       28 March 2024 at 10:08 am

       IMO we are seeing what happens when bullying anti social behavior goes unchecked and gets oxygen from the MSM.

       I agree. Like making a joke about burning down Destiny Church in retaliation.
       • Obtrectator 2.1.2.1

         28 March 2024 at 12:14 pm

         What, no formal Mod Note for Mr Vercotti Sanctuary's comment?
         • Rose 2.1.2.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 2:06 pm

           Evidently not.
       • Sanctuary 2.1.2.2

         28 March 2024 at 4:30 pm

         Nice one centurion, like it, like it. Oh and hail Caesar.
         • weka 2.1.2.2.1

           28 March 2024 at 4:33 pm

           lol.
   • weka 2.2

     28 March 2024 at 10:07 am

     this is why the left is losing the culture war and doesn't understand why.

     We should have the ability to push back against Tamaki's bullshit without sinking to their level. But for some reason we don't.
     • Graeme 2.2.1

       28 March 2024 at 10:19 am

       I think Sanctuary may've been referring to Destiny's charitable status as a 'church', rather than any threat of physical violence. Certainly how I took it.

       Destiny want to behave like gangsters, let them live by the consequences of that choice.

       Proceeds of Crime process anyone…
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         28 March 2024 at 11:08 am

         "in Wiri" suggests a physical location. But sure, he could have meant that and it would have been good if that's what he'd said explicitly.
         • Cricklewood 2.2.1.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 8:37 pm

           Theres also an absolutly massive new church almost complete in Wiri which is unconnected to Destiny although also evangelist and funded from the US. Biggesr church im NZ I reckon and prob the tallest steeple when finished.
           • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2024 at 8:44 pm

             Tallest steeple wins!

             All hail!!
           • joe90 2.2.1.1.1.2

             28 March 2024 at 8:44 pm

             Theres also an absolutly massive new church almost complete in Wiri

             The new Mormon temple?

             https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/auckland-new-zealand-temple/
             • Cricklewood …

               28 March 2024 at 9:01 pm

               Yep, its something to behold alright… some very interesring rules with the tender processes but they do pay the invoices on time every time.
               • joe90 …

                 28 March 2024 at 9:31 pm

                 Strange mob.

                 During the sixties the old man built several houses at Temple View for church members. Unusual houses for the times, large, with particular requirements for symmetry, well insulated, with huge cellars and diesel-fired central heating. Working on Saturday mornings with the old man the home owners would turn up with glorious smoko spreads and, it seemed fucking weird to me at the time, two pots of tea. One was for their milo, of course.

                 Lovely people, though.
                 • Cricklewood …

                   28 March 2024 at 9:43 pm

                   Yeah, al I have regular dealings with Bretherens incl the exclusive side of things amd could say the same. But on balance the whole is um distastful…
       • Obtrectator 2.2.1.2

         28 March 2024 at 12:16 pm

         According to Wikipedia, they lost their charitable status in 2022.
       • Sanctuary 2.2.1.3

         28 March 2024 at 4:27 pm

         No I was referring to the common and humorous meme of mafia gangsters.

         Weka made the heroic leap to retaliatory arson against her favourite pastor all by herself.

         The point is the old Bish and his flock are playing a dangerous game, it isn't like gay activists can't use Google maps and after all that re-decorating of their tasteful Ponsonby villas they are bound to have pails of Dulux ivory cream (semi-gloss of course) left over under the house. God's house in Wiri is a boring grey anyway. A literal splash of colour and some obscene epithets as to the sexual proclivities of Brian's flock would be a definite improvement IMHO.
     • Ad 2.2.2

       28 March 2024 at 12:14 pm

       All that "when they go low we go high" stuff is so 2015.

       It doesn't work. What remains of the left worldwide is getting its ass kicked.

       All the wins the right had during the last Labour government was when they militantly organised and gave it right into people's faces. Tractor drives, massive billionaire fundraising and mass advertising, rebellion from industry no matter what inducement, huge coordinated media attacks to kill off major infrastructure, steamrolling urgency of legislation with unprecedented power.

       If you are still into the politesse of pamphlets, phone trees, little marches, and petitions, prepare to be consigned to political history.
       • weka 2.2.2.1

         28 March 2024 at 1:04 pm

         that's not what I meant.

         I'm saying that if the response to Tamaki from the left is only to point a finger and say bigot, instead of pointing the finger and saying bigot and fighting hard and understanding what the fucking culture war actually is, then we will lose.

         We are losing.

         Atm the liberal left still seems to believe that we can force people to be progressive, despite being outnumbered. It's not about being nice to Tamaki, go hard against what they are doing. It's that if you want to retaliate in kind, you need to have a much better strategy than the left have. Putting our backs into fighting the current government as well as doing whatever identity politics is needed would be a start. Remember the 90s? We were on the streets en masse by this point in National's first term. So sure, fuck the politics of "politesse of pamphlets, phone trees, little marches, and petitions, prepare to be consigned to political history" but also fuck the politics of social media outrage.

         It's not that rainbow activism is wrong. All power to the councils for acting quickly and repainting, that was awesome to see. It's the dearth of similar kind of energy and passion for climate/ecology and NACTF ripping the country's infrastructure apart. I know people are angry about those things, and there is plenty of commentary, but it's got little follow through.

         It still fucks me off no end that it was the trucker/freedom crowd that occupied parliament grounds for three weeks. While the liberal left started talking about restricting right to protest. It should have been us, then on climate, now on austerity. In front of parliament and making a big fucking noise and really holding the government to account.

         Middle NZ/swing voters have a choice, and atm they're fucked off with the left in multiple ways and we still think the solution is to mock them and tell them they are wrong. That's why we are losing the culture war.
         • Rose 2.2.2.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 2:24 pm

           Middle NZ/swing voters have a choice, and atm they're fucked off with the left in multiple ways and we still think the solution is to mock them and tell them they are wrong. That's why we are losing the culture war.

           Wow, so close to home, but never was a truer word said.
         • Sanctuary 2.2.2.1.2

           28 March 2024 at 4:33 pm

           TLDR.

           Can you do all that as a tiktok?
           • weka 2.2.2.1.2.1

             28 March 2024 at 5:09 pm

             I could but it would still go over your head apparently.
         • Cricklewood 2.2.2.1.3

           28 March 2024 at 8:45 pm

           Imho the response to covid in particular the reaction to people who refused vaccination or broke the 'rules' or turned up to protest really showed how many lefties here including rhose in parliment sit on the authortarian side of of the spectrum and tbh its a big reason that i'm not going to be voting anything other than a protest vote for a very long time.

           Some might say i'm cutting off my nose to spite my face but if anything the whole shit show proved that you are bettee to find like minded people build a community and look after yourselves / each other.

           National level politics are just fakes for the wealthy and power hungry.
         • Cricklewood 2.2.2.1.4

           28 March 2024 at 9:57 pm

           Partly a case of how you do it, the restore rail people on wellington were effective at disruption but at the same time they hurt a bunch of people who were in precarious positions trying to get to work. If anything it alienates the very people you are trying to help.

           If you were to look at Destiny they spend 15min defacing a crossing which achives more in turns of media coverage and it doesnt piss this the people in the meet grinder living day by day off so mouch.
       • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.2

         28 March 2024 at 4:00 pm

         "

         All that "when they go low we go high" stuff is so 2015.

         It doesn't work. What remains of the left worldwide is getting its ass kicked."

         Oh, yes!
     • Robert Guyton 2.2.3

       28 March 2024 at 4:35 pm

       There is plenty of pushback against Tamaki's behaviour, here and in the wider community that does not sink to their level. We do have that ability and we don't sink.

       Why do you claim that there isn't and that we do? Because of one (possible) example here?
       • weka 2.2.3.1

         28 March 2024 at 6:28 pm

         I guess that's the problem with one liners, the potential to not be understood

         ☺️😛

         But fair call on asking for an explanation.

         What I am pointing to here is the problem with the approach of the left to our current situation. Doesn't mean we aren't doing good things, as you point out there is rightly and actively push back against Destiny Church.

         The inability I see is to grasping with what the culture war is and how to respond effectively. Tamaki knows what is, so does Peters and Seymour. They are all using the culture war to further their own ends. Both their political agenda, but also just as importantly, garnering and consolidating power.

         The liberal left is struggling to know what to do, because imo it is often failing to grasp what is going on. Pushing back against the destruction of the rainbow crossing is necessary, it's not sufficient.

         I think that DC have overplayed their hand here, but their interest isn't in winning the swing voters, so it's probably less of a mistake for them. The reaction from the left is part of what he wants. He's basically trolling liberals to get a reaction that he can use against liberal values.

         That's why I reacted to Sanctuary's comment. I get that it was an offhand whatever on a small piece of SM. But it's useful to point out why it's a fail. Encouraging gay people to throw rainbow paint and obscenities over the church building in retaliation might make some lefties feel good, but what does it achieve?

         We lack cohesive strategy imo (not that I think Sanctuary is responsible for that or the solution, it was just the thing in the moment).
         • Robert Guyton 2.2.3.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 7:26 pm

           You're advising against one-liners?

           🙂

           We will never have a cohesive strategy, but in lieu of that, we need agile guides who can nudge the discussion in the progressive direction, without knee-capping the contributors to the discussion.

           A Tamaki church, dripping with red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet…

           The Lord be praised!!!!
           • weka 2.2.3.1.1.1

             28 March 2024 at 7:49 pm

             I was connecting over one liners.

             Thanks for ignoring my political analysis though.
             • Robert Guyton …

               28 March 2024 at 8:05 pm

               You're welcome 🙂

               "The reaction from the left is part of what he wants. He's basically trolling liberals to get a reaction that he can use against liberal values."

               The reaction was to repaint the rainbows; Tamaki will use that somehow???
               • weka …

                 28 March 2024 at 8:31 pm

                 that wasn't the only reaction, and yes he will. But there's not much point in talking further if you value this side of the conversation so poorly.
               • Belladonna …

                 31 March 2024 at 7:03 pm

                 The reaction was to repaint the rainbows; Tamaki will use that somehow???

                 Yes, indeed. I've heard from multiple people the comment, along the lines of: Council can't repair potholes or deal with gang graffiti [substitute the grievance de jour for the individual concerned] – but they can repaint vandalized gay rainbows the next day.

                 If you don't think that this has cut through with the potential support base for the Destiny Church – you're living in a much-insulated world.
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   31 March 2024 at 8:27 pm

                   Destiny Church's "potential support base"; those who would support Tamaki's madness, are of little consequence to anyone. The rapid repainting reveals real passion in the community: priceless! Tamaki's efforts to"white-out" a vibrant community have resulted in a colourful response; joyous, vibrant and cheeky! Every warm-hearted person feels that joy 🙂
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     31 March 2024 at 9:25 pm

                     … those who would support Tamaki's madness, are of little consequence to anyone.

                     Certainly of no consequence to me – praise the Lord, and feel the joy.

                     The Rev. Dollar never sleeps, but the Bish isn't getting any younger.

                     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Tamaki#Views_and_controversies
                 • weka …

                   31 March 2024 at 9:36 pm

                   I'm watching the number of people who are ok with the action because they see GI as having gone to far, they will will ignore that it was DC. The GC people I see siding with LGB rights are much smaller in number.

                   Robert can write off the people who are concerned, but they're the ones that voted in a right wing government. The liberal left have some massive blind spots at times.

                   The more serious risk here is that people choosing to side with DC on this end up being more conservative generally. That's harder to turn back than a swing vote especially at this time with people being scared and stressed by the state of the world.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     1 April 2024 at 9:20 am

                     "The more serious risk here is that people choosing to side with DC on this end up being more conservative generally."

                     And will have to come to terms with the very real possibility that the Christchurch earthquakes were God's punishment of queers, yes?
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     1 April 2024 at 11:46 am

                     Feminist responses to populist politics [2 Aug 2021]

                     The liberal left have some massive blind spots at times.

                     Regular Standardistas would have to be blind not to see that some view gender ideology/theory as a massive (global) problem – TS has done a service to Kiwis by providing a forum for debating GI matters.

                     The more serious risk here is that people choosing to side with DC on this end up being more conservative generally. That's harder to turn back than a swing vote especially at this time with people being scared and stressed by the state of the world.

                     Yes, it's natural for people to be stressed by the state of civilisation, and spaceship Earth. We are in sustained overshoot – c'est la vie.

                     Otoh (or is it?), stress can be a killer. Given Freedoms NZ's election result (0.34% of the party vote), I'm pretty relaxed about Destiny Church's influence on NZ politics. Even if a few CoC MPs were closeted DC supporters, they couldn't be so stupid as to openly endorse Bishop Brian's regressive views – could they?

                     Life Of Brian 1979 Debate [YouTube; 55 minutes]

                     The legal freedoms of minorities have progressed considerably since Muldoon and Moyle – not far enough for some, too far for 'others'.

                     NZ…A Gay Haven for a Trans-Takeover [1 Oct 2023]
                     However, don’t get it twisted. I love all people, including those who have chosen to be LGBTQIA+.
                     But I fervently oppose the Rainbow community pushing their beliefs and ways onto the rest of society…

                     "Pushing their beliefs" Don't stress Brian – try taking a walk in Palmy. No rainbow crossings here, as far as I know – happy Easter.

                     Rainbow crossings explained: What are they and are they important? [28 March 2024]
                   • weka []

                     1 April 2024 at 1:15 pm

                     Otoh (or is it?), stress can be a killer. Given Freedoms NZ’s election result (0.34% of the party vote), I’m pretty relaxed about Destiny Church’s influence on NZ politics. Even if a few CoC MPs were closeted DC supporters, they couldn’t be so stupid as to openly endorse Bishop Brian’s regressive views – could they?

                     I would suggest doing some reading about the progression of societies towards fascism. It’s not as Robert argues against that all these people are going to become part of the DC congregation. It’s that there are large numbers of people that don’t care that Tamaki thinks gay people cause earthquakes.

                     There have been whole wars fought over this on twitter, major schisms within the GC movements on working with the right.There are many people who are infact ok with working with conservatives, including former left wing people. We’ve seen this on TS, so I’m not sure why it’s not obvious.

                     And the centrists and apolitical ones are winning apart from in the UK, where it’s hard to know which will it will eventually fall.

                     In NZ the left and centre left GC feminists and other women are outnumbered by the reactionaries and the right. And those people are quite ok with throwing gay people under the bus because they perceive the rainbow flag as a symbol of oppression of women and children.

                     It’s just another case of the left being wholly unprepared for what is coming.
                   • Belladonna …

                     1 April 2024 at 1:17 pm

                     It appears to me that some on the left (cf Robert's comments on this issue) appear to have a blind spot when it come to conservative (with a small c) voters.

                     Often these people don't have particularly Conservative (with a capital c) voting alignment (e.g. they don't particularly support a right wing economic policy, or sell-offs of public assets or downsizing of social support (although they may want more targeting of support to those in need, and a social contract with those receiving support – the KO refusal to evict went down like a lead balloon).

                     However, when the left are hard-aligned with fairly extreme socially liberal policies – it leaves this group with no voting home. 'Christian' parties have failed (both through the leadership, and in getting across the bar into government) – leaving only the centre right (and whatever you call Winston) as the only parties they can support.

                     This group were significant in electing this current coalition.

                     If the left want to see the current government voted out at the next election, then they need to consider how to soften their policy stance, to accommodate a broader 'church'.

                     Or, resign themselves to another 2 terms in opposition – until the usual 'Buggins turn' mentality of the electorate – allows them another period in power.

                     I absolutely agree with you about the danger of policy drift. If people see DC as the 'only' place with agrees with them about X issue, it becomes easier for them to gradually adopt other DC philosophy over time.
                   • weka []

                     1 April 2024 at 4:53 pm

                     this is pretty much how I see it. There are a whole lot of NZ that don’t fit neatly into the left/right analysis, and there is a difference between the small c and the big one.

                     The right know who they are though.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     1 April 2024 at 7:03 pm

                     It’s that there are large numbers of people that don’t care that Tamaki thinks gay people cause earthquakes.

                     "People that don't care", or don't even know. I disagree with what little I know of the gospel according to Eftpostle Brian, but he's not raising my stress levels at present. Am I disappointed about some of the choices Destiny Church members have made? Of course – but then I'm disappointed about so many choices made every day.

                     Brian Tamaki and about 2000 Destiny Church faithful gathered outside Parliament [6 Dec 2018]
                     "For all of my efforts to try and get into prison, they [the Government] shut us down."
                     …
                     ACT Leader David Seymour – who also addressed the crowd – was also critical of people’s perception of Destiny Church.

                     In 2022, Brian's efforts finally paid off

                     Brian Tamaki remanded in custody for alleged breach of bail conditions [17 Jan 2022]

                     I would suggest doing some reading about the progression of societies towards fascism.
                     …
                     It’s just another case of the left being wholly unprepared for what is coming.

                     If "what is coming" is a drift towards fascism, abetted by The Bish, then no doubt that will be a topic for discussion here, and elsewhere.

                     Meanwhile, we can each champion progressive ideas/values/principles/concepts/ideologies, as we see them and in our own ways. Breaking bread with conservative MPs doesn’t appeal to me, but there are MPs I admire who have done just that in pursuit of lasting progress, and there must still be some decent NActNZF pollies.
   • tsmithfield 2.3

     28 March 2024 at 11:38 am

     I find this action to the crossing to be quite despicable.

     But I think we are seeing the slippery slope in action. If it is OK to protest by defacing a display in our national museum to make a point, then we shouldn't be surprised when groups we don't like take similar action.

     What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So, I think we either have to accept this sort of behaviour as legitimate protest even if we don't agree with it, or condemn it whenever it occurs whether we agree with the sentiment or not.
     • Ad 2.3.1

       28 March 2024 at 12:16 pm

       No, we don't have to be principled at all.

       The right aren't. The right are enjoying outrageous success.

       This is no time to quibble about the equivalence of tactics.

       This is the time for Chloe and Chris to call each other every Friday afternoon and coordinate attack lines.
       • weka 2.3.1.1

         28 March 2024 at 1:08 pm

         Turei and Shaw did that in 2016. It was a brilliant move, and Labour rose to the occasion thanks to Little. That was 8 years ago. We're a different country and the Greens have moved on to a new strategy. They will still work with Labour, but Labour's refusal to step far enough left means the Turei/Shaw deal was always going to be a time limited thing. I have a lot of respect for Ardern, but she also wasted this massive opportunity.

         So yeah, Swarbrick and Davidson and Hipkins should talk and then act together. But will they? We can't afford to wait.
         • James Simpson 2.3.1.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 3:54 pm

           Chloe is confident that the Green Party can be the major party on the left. Without saying it, she is coming for Labour and their traditional supporters.

           I don't expect there to be much co-ordination between the parties in the next 18 months. Labour has a wounded leader that is currently contradicting himself in his major speeches. He is there for the taking and Chloe sees that. She wants his support base.

           They don't even need to campaign together with a common message in 2026. NZ First has found themselves at the cabinet table following 2 of the past 3 elections, without supporting the major party they went into coalition with.
           • weka 2.3.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2024 at 4:32 pm

             That's my reading of the GP intention. I think that could change with a change of Labour leader and an overt support for wealth tax. But failing that, what would be the point?
       • AB 2.3.1.2

         28 March 2024 at 1:46 pm

         Broadly agree with that. With a couple of cautions.

         First, that if you have no principles, you can never be a hypocrite, but if you profess to have principles, you'll be called a hypocrite all the time.

         Second, this aggression should stop short of endorsing violence. I don't think Sanctuary was doing that given what their history of commenting shows, but the bare words on the page could be interpreted that way.
     • Robert Guyton 2.3.2

       28 March 2024 at 4:37 pm

       Sauce, tsmithfield, it's "sauce".

       Those 2 actions are not equivalent, when you look at the intentions behind them and who is being targeted. Your claim is a nonsense, imo.
3. Sanctuary 3

   28 March 2024 at 8:55 am

   Also (given the report on the dysfunction in civil defense during Gabrielle in Hawkes Bay) does anyone really think NZ's authorities would react with the spped and cool efficiency of the Baltimore Port Authority and police in the bridge strike there? It took FOUR MINUTES from the mayday to the port authority reacting immediately to the police closing the bridge.

   At 1.30am in the morning, from port workers probably without an degree monitoring radios and screens, to police dispatchers to action. Incredible. The port maritime control responded immediately to the mayday, contacted police dispatch, who closed the bridge in four freaking minutes. That doesn't happen by accident. The training and trust chain was amazing. No "Are you sure? What do you mean?" they all acted immediately. Well done them, average Joes who earnt every dollar for the rest of their careers.
   • Visubversa 3.1

     28 March 2024 at 9:25 am

     Unfortunately – this promptness did not extend to getting the road workers off the bridge in time. 6 of them are "missing" with at least 1 body found. It also looks like the vehicles that were identified by sonar belonged to the road workers.
     • joe90 3.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 1:35 pm

       They don't count.

       /

       Last March, a speeding car plowed between highway barriers on the same Baltimore highway and killed six workers, including Villatoro’s husband and brother-in-law. That crash along Interstate 695 was about 20 miles from the bridge. Now, a massive ship stacked with containers had crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge, causing its collapse. Six workers, all native to Latin America, were lost in the Patapsco River and presumed dead.

       https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/03/27/migrant-workers-baltimore-bridge-collapse/
4. Ad 4

   28 March 2024 at 10:02 am

   Shoutout to Dr Jim Salinger for getting New Zealander of the Year.

   https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/03/28/climate-scientist-jim-salinger-named-new-zealander-of-the-year/

   In your eye NIWA for firing him in 2009 for bullshit reasons.

   #payback#longgame
   • Anne 4.1

     28 March 2024 at 10:31 am

     

     NIWA's response in 2009 was typical of the arrogance amongst some Public Service leaders. The Met Service was no better back in the day. Whether it was confined to scientific agencies I don't know, but imo it was pretty much a case of professional jealousy. Management didn't like their 'underlings' taking the limelight away from them.
   • Macro 4.2

     28 March 2024 at 9:09 pm

     Good to hear. I knew Jim way back in the 70's/80's when we both lived in Silverstream and travelled on the train together to and from Wellington – GHG and AGW were frequent topics.

     Our children were in the same class. His son was Joseph to my daughter's Mary in the school nativity play. 🙂 A nice bloke and a great travelling companion. He, of course, had his own meteorological observatory in his back garden and wrote a regular column for the gardening section of the local paper – the UH Leader. Excellent advice on when to plant.
5. Rose 5

   28 March 2024 at 11:43 am

   Tuesday there were four “does the minister/PM stand by all their statement and actions” type questions from the opposition at question time. Yesterday five. Today another four.

   These are such a free hit for the government to take the conversation where ever they want and lazy by the opposition. I can see why the leader of the opposition might want to do it, but seriously in almost every portfolio! The opposition is coming across as incredibly weak in question time.
   • weka 5.1

     28 March 2024 at 12:10 pm

     it would depend on the questions. Because you haven't shared what the questions were about it's hard to know if you have a good point or are trolling again.
     • Rose 5.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 12:13 pm

       Oral questions are easily found. Here are yesterdays. Note 3,4, 6,8 and 9.

       https://bills.parliament.nz/v/11/aca78f3d-dca7-4996-3cd3-08dc4dd01dd1
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         28 March 2024 at 1:09 pm

         I'm not doing your work for you, I’m pointing out the problem with your approach in a left wing space.
         • Sanctuary 5.1.1.1.1

           28 March 2024 at 4:37 pm

           Let me guess, you were captain of the debating team at high school?

           You asked for some arbitrary evidence (this is a blog site, not a depositions hearing since when does everything have to come with an army of footnotes?) then when they were provided you you had a flounce because it didn't come with a silver spoon for you to feed you with?
           • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.1.1.1

             28 March 2024 at 4:41 pm

             "You asked for some arbitrary evidence (this is a blog site, not a depositions hearing since when does everything have to come with an army of footnotes?)"

             QFT
           • Rose 5.1.1.1.1.2

             28 March 2024 at 4:58 pm

             Indeed. I’d understand if the reference was to something obscure. But FCOL oral questions with a specific date reference.
   • AB 5.2

     28 March 2024 at 1:55 pm

     No – these are always 'set-up' questions. Get the "Yes" from the Minister to the broad question and follow with a supplementary question on a specific matter where the "Yes" is difficult to justify.

     Of course the Minister almost always knows what topic the supplementary will target and already has bullshit talking points rehearsed in advance. So most of the time it's all a bit like formal jousting where no-one gets injured and the public is no wiser afterwards. To draw conclusions from this empty ritual that the opposition looks "weak" is just your wishful thinking.
6. Phillip ure 6

   28 March 2024 at 11:49 am

   The reason for the questions you complain about…is that they leave the gummint unable to know/be prepared for the follow up…

   This is the advantage to the opposition..
   • Rose 6.1

     28 March 2024 at 12:00 pm

     On the contrary, it allows the minister to talk about whatever they want. It also does not serve the public well where question time seeks to hold the government to account by asking probing questions about government policy. It looks like a feeble fishing expedition using old socks as bait by an opposition spokesperson not on top of their portfolio. I’m sure the government will be more than happy with this line of questioning to continue.

     Like her or not, Erica Stanford was particularly good at asking specific and probing question when opposition education spokesperson
     • Rodel 6.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 2:02 pm

       I believe that subsequent questions ( supplementaries) must be related to the topic of the original question. If the original question topic is wide enough (i.e. all statements and actions) then supplementaries can be asked about anything. It all seems a bit silly to me.
   • Cricklewood 6.2

     28 March 2024 at 8:55 pm

     Its only an advantage if you have a speaker that runs a level playing field… theyre like hens teeth Lockwood Smith was prob the closest to neutral in recent times.
7. Ad 7

   28 March 2024 at 12:08 pm

   Minister Jones' official killing of the Kermadec Sanctuary proposal signals that this is a government far, far more retrograde than anything PM John Key proposed. Key actually launched this proposal live and direct to the United Nations.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350223648/nz-politics-live-govt-axe-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary-plan

   Iwi commercial fishing interests have killed this off from the moment it was announced, despite all sorts of inducements from the previous Labour government.

   Jones, Brown and Bishop are setting a development benchmark for which you would have to go back to the days of Semple or Syd Holland.

   To see how anti-nature they have become, an important Cabinet Minister under Syd Holland was Ernest Corbett, who was a lifelong member of Forest and Bird and added several major national parks to our state to the tune of 1.2 million acres square.

   That pretty much benchmarks how deep a reversal this move by Jones is.

   It also benchmarks in case it wasn't obvious that Maori business are no friend of liberal causes Green, Labour or TMP.
   • Obtrectator 7.1

     28 March 2024 at 12:25 pm

     It also benchmarks in case it wasn't obvious that Maori business are no friend of liberal causes Green, Labour or TMP.

     Those people are businessmen first and foremost, whose Maoriness is largely incidental.
     • Ad 7.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 12:40 pm

       Fuck off with that naive racist bullshit.
8. Bruce 8

   28 March 2024 at 12:38 pm

   Fraud is a victimless crime if your one of the entitled. Its American but I'd say the sentiment is the same here.

   https://youtu.be/EDMinX6t1Zk?si=hcsiBrkn2ZH3bLoT
9. aj 9

   28 March 2024 at 12:44 pm

   Hope this becomes a thing here 🙂

   https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJte9BKXEAAK6b_?format=jpg&name=small

   “The effect of the sticker is two-fold. In one respect (and the most important), it conceals the racist remarks so that others will not see it. And in another, it shames the person that was bold enough to post it while demonstrating that other people won’t tolerate their poor behavior. This particular instance came to light after the popular Twitter account Lorenzo The Cat first posted a picture of the placement. Throughout the tweet’s many replies, the overwhelming message was users applauding the use of the sticker.

   You can get your own cat cover-up label from the online shop called Cracks Appearing Distro. The stickers are sold in singles as well as packs of 10 or 30. Printed on a white gloss paper, they should brave the elements and last outdoors for six months”

   https://mymodernmet.com/racist-rubbish-cat-sticker/
   • Mikey 9.1

     28 March 2024 at 1:01 pm

     Hope what becomes a thing?
     • aj 9.1.1

       28 March 2024 at 2:18 pm

       Reducing rascist graffiti by covering it with cute cat pictures.
       (Or dolphins, thank you PB)
   • Patricia Bremner 9.2

     28 March 2024 at 1:14 pm

     Yes, a supply of Hectors Dolphin pictures would work for NZ
10. tWig 10

    28 March 2024 at 4:35 pm

    "Israel has chucked its toys and has withdrawn from peace talks with Hamas and cancelled meetings at the Whitehouse because the UN has finally called for a cease-fire."

    Pat and Aaron Hawkins discuss the news clips around Israel"s response to the UN resolution.

    Big Hairy News (facebook post 28/03/24 15:42)
11. tWig 11

    28 March 2024 at 4:52 pm

    Big Hairy News chew over the govt tax cuts. Between 10 min and 20 min.

    Big Hairy News Facebook 28 mar 6:42
12. Drowsy M. Kram 12

    28 March 2024 at 5:18 pm

    School Strike 4 Climate NZ [Facebook page; strike is on Friday 5th of April]

    Don't stress, but the climate crisis is affecting our brains – still, itsa not so bad.

    ‘Everybody has a breaking point’: how the climate crisis affects our brains
    [27 March 2024]
    More than a decade later, she [cognitive neuroscientist Nomura] has her answer. The conclusions reveal a startling disparity: children who were in utero during [2012 hurricane] Sandy bear an inordinately high risk of psychiatric conditions today. For example, girls who were exposed to Sandy prenatally experienced a 20-fold increase in anxiety and a 30-fold increase in depression later in life compared with girls who were not exposed. Boys had 60-fold and 20-fold increased risks of ADHD and conduct disorder, respectively. Children expressed symptoms of the conditions as early as preschool.
    …
    Yet Nomura and her colleagues’ research also offers a representative page in a new story of the climate crisis: a story that says a changing climate doesn’t just shape the environment in which we live. Rather, the climate crisis spurs visceral and tangible transformations in our very brains. As the world undergoes dramatic environmental shifts, so too does our neurological landscape. Fossil-fuel-induced changes – from rising temperatures to extreme weather to heightened levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide – are altering our brain health, influencing everything from memory and executive function to language, the formation of identity, and even the structure of the brain. The weight of nature is heavy, and it presses inward.
    …
    “That scares me,” she [Ikiz] says. “Because in 2050, we’ll be like: ‘Ah, this is awful. Let’s try to do something.’ But it will be too late for a lot of people.

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