Be afraid be very afraid – the next Government could be really strange

Written By: - Date published: 11:57 am, August 27th, 2023 - 55 comments
Categories: act, Christopher Luxon, election 2023, national, nz first, same old national - Tags:

If there was a change of Government the next Government could potentially be full of fundamentalist Christians, anti vaxers and all sorts of people whose view of Aotearoa is not conventional or reality based.

Act has a number of candidates who, how to put this politely, struggle with reality.

From Russell Palmer at Radio New Zealand:

ACT is in damage control after candidates were revealed to have made inflammatory posts on social media.

One candidate who likened vaccine mandates to concentration camps has resigned, while another who linked the Covid-19 vaccines to drownings has renounced the comments and apologised.

A third candidate, Anto Coates, who referred to Covid-19 as “mass hysteria” and in a parody song said former prime minister Dame Jacinda Ardern had thought about thowing people in a gulag – and stepped down more than a month ago.

ACT leader David Seymour said Coates had resigned “for personal reasons”.

It now appears that “personal reasons” includes holding bat shit crazy views that will bring the Act Party into disrepute.

NZ First has its own issues.

As I reported before it also has some really weird potential MPs.

Like Kirsten Murfitt, who was identified by Stuff reporter Charlie Mitchell as Polly, who has some very unusual beliefs, like Donald Trump is secretly a zionist and 911 may not have actually happened.

And she is not the only one.  From the article:

Stuff has identified several other announced NZ First candidates who have shared false or extreme views about the pandemic and other topics.

They include Auckland consultant Janina Massee, who formed her own political party last year called NZ STRONG but folded it last month to join New Zealand First. She has since been confirmed as the party’s Whangaparāoa candidate.

On social media last year, Massee shared a post that asked: “Why are we still being led to the slaughter like so many to the gas chambers[?]”, in a seeming reference Covid-19 vaccines. It is unclear if she wrote the post or simply shared it.

There is also Coromandel candidate Caleb Ansell who has posted QAnon catchphrases and who also called for the defrocking of the Archbishop of Canterbury for opposing a Ugandan Church’s extreme anti gay law stance.

And the Hamilton West candidate Kevin Stone who said that Covid was a “plandemic” orchestrated by multiple governments at the behest of a global financial cartel seeking a “great reduction in the population of the developed world and the virtual enslavement of the remainder”.

NZ First’s candidate vetting is not very good.  Either that or it has calculated that there is a sufficiently large coalition with anti vaxers to get it over the line.

But National and Christopher Luxon present the biggest risk of the next Government being pretty strange and out there.

From Andrea Vance at the Sunday Star Times:

On current polling, [National’s] caucus is about to swell by at least a third. In government or not, the more people you have, the more you have to manage. And they come with politician-sized egos.

Based on an analysis of the party’s list, released last weekend, this incoming crop brings an added risk: a large, socially conservative faction of a size not seen in the National party since the mid-1980s.

The ‘Taliban’ – as the existing group is known to centrist MPs – is set to grow to as many as 18 or 19 MPs, based on list placings and likely electorate wins. (There are also a handful in unwinnable seats.)

They are either evangelical Christians – like Luxon himself – or with morally traditional views.

It follows a trend in Western democracies, where conventional conservativism is foundering, and there is a rightwards drift, with centre-right parties becoming more hard-line and leaving behind past, more moderate politics.

Although many of the predominant social debates (gay rights, abortion, euthanasia) are settled in New Zealand, these are combustible times.

When one issue fades, as with same-sex marriage, the religious right will find something else. In both the US and Australia, they have been galvanised by a battle over transgender rights, and in particular young trans people.

Recently, across the Tasman, it was revealed the ‘no campaign’ to sink the indigenous voice to parliament referendum had deep links to conservative Christian lobbyists.

The prophetic voice tends to be the loudest – and it will be emboldened by a leader who shares these moral views. But it is not the prevailing one in New Zealand – and it is off-putting to the majority of centrist voters.

Luxon himself has been at pains to distance himself from the anti-trans extremists, and has lambasted NZ First leader Winston Peters’ views on that topic as “off the planet”.

But if National wins in October, an unruly rump of zealots championing Christian identity politics is a significant risk to National’s cohesiveness, and its ability to hold that power.

We have seen in the United States what happens when the Evangelicals join with the right.  Their support comes at a cost and the cost is not pretty.

So whichever way you cut it if there is a change of Government the next Government could be full of cranks, people who question science and fundamentalist Christians some of who probably think that the end of days could be a good and rapturous thing.

New Zealand should be afraid, it should be very very afraid.

55 comments on “Be afraid be very afraid – the next Government could be really strange ”

  1. Anker 1

    Well Mickey we have just had a Government full of people whose views are not reality based. I think it would be fair to say that the vast majority of Labour and Greens caucus think a man can become a woman just through identifying himself as such. Please feel free to correct me, but I am pretty sure that is the case. Plus a PM who fails to identify what a woman is.

    The bat shit crazy conspiracy theorists will be a tiny minority (if any at all) the next govt

    • weka 1.1

      while I disagree, strongly, with the Labour and Green positions on gender identity especially in relationship to women's rights, what you have just said strikes me as inaccurate and misleading.

      I think it would be fair to say that the vast majority of Labour and Greens caucus think a man can become a woman just through identifying himself as such.

      1. They are talking about gender identity, you are talking about biological sex. There are some people who believe that it's possible to change biological sex, but most pro-GI people don't think that, instead they believe that gender identity trumps biology in social and political contexts. 'Woman' is an identity to them (hence the PM's definition. It's not like they think TW can have babies or that TM can get a woman pregnant.
      2. we don't know how many MPs believe in gender identity ideology, because it's not currently politically viable for any who disagree to say so.

      As bad as that is, it's a mistake to conflate that believe set with not being generally reality based. Whereas the conspiracy theory sub culture tends to have a range of views that defy material reality, and at a much more fundamental level. This is why we have a lot of people who peak over GI, but relatively few thus far who peak over the various conspiracy beliefs. They're different phenomena.

      Despite the GII views, Labour and the Greens have coherent and functional positions and ability to run the country. I say that despite disagreeing with a fair chunk of what Labour does (climate, roading, water, welfare). The GII is an anomaly. In conspiracy theorists, the weird isn't an anomaly, it's built in throughout.

      The bat shit crazy conspiracy theorists will be a tiny minority (if any at all) the next govt

      This misses a couple of important points. One is that a small number of conspiracy theorists in government can destabilise democracy. It empowers the growing conspiracy culture, they would then have political legitimacy and access to funding and political upskilling. They will prioritise staff who have the same kinds of beliefs. This is how culture change happens and it takes time to reverse, sometimes a long time or never.

      At it's worst, it's Trumpian and it enables fast social and cultural shifts that become entrenched.

      It's naive to assume that those people and the fundies won't impact on women's rights. Luxon might not be so stupid to go after abortion head on, but funding cuts is a traditional way to do harm across a range of women's issues. Less pro-women people appointed to all sorts of positions. Conservative voting on issues that impact on low income women (employment, welfare). Women's sex based rights matter, but this isn't the way to retain them.

      Peters and ACT are using women's sex based rights politics to gain power. They are not allies of women, and it's dangerous af to support them as if they are.

      • Anker 1.1.1

        Well I did say correct me if you think I am wrong.

        I think it is possible that the majority of Lab/Greens think if you say you a women (even if you are a man) then you are a women. Remember trans women are women?

        The Lab and Green parties pushed through legislation that has lead to anyone who says they are women being able to change their birth certs, no questions asked and access change rooms etc. The Ministry of Women, is now the Ministry of women and Trans women who are men.

        I think Seymour and possibly Peters have ditched their candidates that are conspiracy theorists.

        You are using the arguements the left use when stuck for good arguements. Calling it Trumpian. And I absolutely don't appreciate any suggestion that I am naive thanks Weka.

        I have just been to a candidates meeting where the Labour candidate admitted that GST off fruit and vegetables was only because they had to do something after the wealth tax issue. So this is what politicians do, they use focus groups to find out what support an idea has and they go with it to get votes.

        BTW IMO Peters is geniune about women and toilets and change rooms.

        • Anne 1.1.1.1

          I think it is possible that the majority of Lab/Greens think if you say you a women (even if you are a man) then you are a women.

          That is absolute rubbish Anker. You have either made that up in your head or you have been listening to the wrong people.

          What they actually try to do is to accept there are people with genuine critical gender differences and that they are people too and entitled to the same care and respect as the rest of us.

        • observer 1.1.1.2

          "Peters is geniune about women and toilets and change rooms."

          It might be his genuine opinion, but the real question is always the same: how important is it to him? Read up on all the NZF policies in previous campaigns, and then see how quickly they disappeared after election day. I can't believe you do not know this.

          The conversation will be short:

          Luxon: "We want your support on confidence and supply".

          Peters: "Here is our policy on bathrooms …"

          Luxon: "You can be Minister of Racing. Just forget the other stuff."

          Peters: "Already forgotten!"

      • Blazer 1.1.2

        So how many genders are…there?

        • weka 1.1.2.1

          I'm a feminist. Gender is a social construct used by the patriarchal system we live in to control women because without our bodies and reproductive capacities there would be no capitalism. Conservatives and gender identity ideologists are both regressive, misogynistic movements. Both enforce gender norms and undermines women's human rights.

          Attempts to subvert that by creating more than the binary genders or by trying to break the binary, while understandable from people that do badly under patriarchy, are still regressive and dangerous because they are using neoliberal, individualist structures rather than class analysis and solidarity, as well as tools of authoritarianism to enforce the ideology.

          Peters, Seymour and co don't give a shit about any of that. They don't care if women get pushed back into gender conformity, nor if women have a say in our own lives and politics and rights. Both are using gender critical politics for their own political gains, Peters probably genuinely wants gender conformity enforced, who knows with Seymour who seems to do libertarianism when it suits him.

          Meanwhile, gender critical feminists have been fighting this shit for decades, when the likes of Peters and Seymour where in parliament either ignoring it or voting for it.

          So don't play that 'how many genders are there?' game with me.

          • Blazer 1.1.2.1.1

            Why not just simply say…'I don't know…and I don't..care'!

            • weka 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Because I'm not a child, it's stupid question, and this is a blog where we talk about politics.

              • Blazer

                Trump has popularised writing off questions as 'stupid' or 'nasty' when he doesn't like them.

                I believe it's a perfectly valid question .I'm certainly not going to try and convince you…why.

                • weka

                  I gave you a 4 paragraph, coherent feminist analysis of the issues. You're the one doing the writing off.

                  It's not a particularly valid question. A valid question would be something like:

                  Why do so many people now believe that identity matters so much?

                  or

                  Why do conservatives have a fit about gender identity outside of issues to do with women's sex based rights and child protection?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2.1.2

            Gender is a social construct used by the patriarchal system we live in to control women…

            Two crucial differences between sex and gender are that sex is immutable and mostly binary, whereas gender isn’t set in stone and is a spectrum.

            Why Sex Is Mostly Binary but Gender Is a Spectrum
            [15 December 2016]
            A short genetic history of one of the most profound dimensions of human identity.

            Imho, these differences explain why far-right and some religious and other conservative groups are anti-gender – the distinctive aspects of 'gender' are a threat to the dominance of traditional sex-based interactions and roles.

            The idea that individuals can have identities that are incongruent with their biological sex is anathema to regressive anti-gender types, who have many (patriarchal) reasons to confine women (and men) to tidy sex-based boxes.

            The individual harms and benefits of such confinements will vary. As to the societal harms and benefits of 'self-ID', I hope there will be time to tell.

            • Blazer 1.1.2.1.2.1

              I read that link.One big factor seemed to be ..identity through behaviour which was a bit contradictory to me.

              Male sexual behaviour was mentioned but also social 'programming'…individuals not conforming to accepted roles…blue for boys,pink for girls archetypes.

              Time will ..tell alright.

            • weka 1.1.2.1.2.2

              The idea that individuals can have identities that are incongruent with their biological sex is anathema to regressive anti-gender types, who have many (patriarchal) reasons to confine women (and men) to tidy sex-based boxes.

              Yes. And, there is a whole nother analysis of gender from feminists who say that gender stereotypes are harmful whether being enforced by conservatives or liberals.

              There are three sides in this fight, not two.

          • LawfulN 1.1.2.1.3

            Gender is a social construct used by the patriarchal system we live in to control women because without our bodies and reproductive capacities there would be no capitalism.

            It's only a conspiracy theory when they do it…

        • adam 1.1.2.2

          "If man is five
          If man is five
          If man is five

          Then the devil is six
          Then the devil is six
          Then the devil is six
          Then the devil is six

          And if the devil is six
          Then God is seven
          Then God is seven
          Then God is seven"

        • Anker 1.1.2.3

          LOLBlazer! Anyone on this site care to answer this?

      • AB 1.1.3

        There are some people who believe that it's possible to change biological sex, but most pro-GI people don't think that, instead they believe that gender identity trumps biology in social and political contexts.

        Thanks for that Weka. It's an unusually fair and useful definition. I think I'd want to add two complications:

        • rather than "gender identity trumps biology" there is a range from of opinion from "trumps" back to something like "needs to be seriously and respectfully considered"
        • all thoughts and feelings, all mental phenomena, are also biological, at least in part. The human mind/brain is not a total tabula rasa shaped only by outside influences that might be good, bad, reality-based or totally deluded. It is constrained by our being biologically homo sapiens – some things can be thought or felt and others cannot. Some things can be understood and others are forever mysteries. If we dismiss a sense of identity as worthless because it is 'not biological', then a lot of other stuff at the core of our humanity that is also 'not biological' is potentially on the chopping block of a crude physicalism. Right-wing YouTube intellectuals enjoy the phrase, "the facts don't care about your feelings" and this belongs to the same family of ideas. That might partly explain the otherwise baffling alignment of feminists and neo/proto-fascists on this topic.
    • mickysavage 1.2

      Ankler that is a really important issue for a few of us and the rest are standing with them in solidarity. Give me support for gender identity issues over full on assault on every progressive social issue any day.

      • Anker 1.2.1

        Thanks Mickey. At least you have owned that it is important for you to stand in solidarity with gender identity issues. Important to support others.

        So what is it exactly you are standing with trans people about Mickey?

        Does this mean you support biolgical males who identify as women having access to women's change rooms? That this would include change rooms where girls and teen girls were getting changed?

        Do you support biological men who identify as women being able to compete against biolgical women as was the case with Lia Thomas, the male in the US who as a man came around 464th in the male category and swimming in the womens category won medals and scholarships that should have been womens?

        Do you support trans women (men) in women's prisons including sex offenders, who we have seen in the US , the UK and Scotland housed alongside females?

        Do you think it is a good idea we are teaching children age five plus that they may be born in the wrong body and that their sex is assigned at birth and rather than being a boy, they might really be a girl?

        Do you think that young teens should be given drugs to block their puberty the same drugs that were given to Alan Turing to chemically castrate him for being gay?

        These are some of the issues I have deep misgivings about. You see I think it is still possible to support transgender people but have questions about the issues I have listed above. Just because people have drawn a difficult card they have to live with, doesn't mean we should trample over other peoples rights to make up for it.

        I am not sure what you comment a full on assault on every progressive social issue anyday refers to.

        Aside from the gender issues, Labour has made it very easy for me to look about else where to cast my vote (still undecided). It won't be Lab or the Greens as their denial of biological reality makes me query their fitness to hold office. As for Labour there is nothing policy wise (except the wage rises and covid) that would lead me to cast my vote for them. Its a shame. I really thought they would fix housing and inequality. Thats why I voted for them. They have delivered very little of what I wanted and a whole lot of stuff I didn't want.

        • Blazer 1.2.1.1

          Looking forward to to see if you get any answers,….have my..doubts.

          • Anker 1.2.1.1.1

            Yeah, I would love some who support gender ideology just to answer these questions.

            You are absolutely entitled to say I stand with transgender people, hell I would have said that myself, up until I found out about the agenda of the gender identatarians.

            Do you not read about Nicola Sturgeon and the trans women are women back down (or fubbing it) after transwomen sex offenders (men) were housed in womens prison?

        • Tony Veitch 1.2.1.2

          It won't be Lab or the Greens

          Well, colour me surprised – Anker will vote for the fundamentalist/conspiracy/cranky right!

          • Tabletennis 1.2.1.2.1

            Tony – as you do not know who Anker 'will vote for'
            Anker, myself and others have other options, especially women, for casting their party vote:
            such as T.O.P. or the Women's Rights Party.

          • Anker 1.2.1.2.2

            Tony V this is exactly the problem I have with the left right now.

            If you don't agree with them, most of them will only use smears suchas fundamentalist, conspiracy, cranky right. Or Nazi and alt right if it suits them.

            Labour will do well to start listening to women like me. I have only ever given two ticks to Labour. I have donated and worked for them. My family has significant history with the Labour party and some still do. It is looking like there is a strong possibility Labour will lose this election. I suggest if this is the case the party think very hard about reaching out to people like me to see why we turned away.

            • Tony Veitch 1.2.1.2.2.1

              The crucial thing here is:

              we turned away.

              Turned away to where? If you think, even for a fleeting moment, that the Natz could have handled the last 6 years better than Labour – well, there's no hope for you.

              Yes, there are other alternatives, such as T.O.P. and I wouldn't be upset if they managed to get across the 5% threshold.

              But Act or NZ First – ???

              • Anker

                We turned away from Labour.

                I never said the Nats would have handled the last six years better. Its simply not possible to know that. Its like saying if only I had of taken on that new job "

                What an earth do you mean by "there is no hope for me". Does that mean I am failing to fall into line with your right think?

                "Act or NZ First". You seem to leave out that Labour was very happy to go into colliation with NZ First.

                Surely as a voter I am allowed to weigh up across a range of parties who I might want to vote for. Afterall we are living in a democracy.

    • Peter 1.3

      When I die I’m pretty sure it’ll be able to be said I didn’t waste much time and energy worrying, being stressed out or being bemused about a PM failing to identify what a woman is.

      • Anker 1.3.1

        Peter I certainly hope none of us are thinking about politics on our death beds. Ideally we will be surrounded by friends and loved ones in a hospice.

  2. Patricia Bremner 2

    Anker you should have imo after your comment.

    The following scares me.

    People who deny other people a right to live/be, because their personal beliefs are used to deny another's rights.

    People who celebrate legislated loss of choice. (Simeon Brown.)

    People who think money is the answer, and austerity will fix things.

    People who think charity should be earned and measured out grudgingly, hope is for the rich, and money should be made at every opportunity.

    People who decide if an activity is worthy.

    People who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.

    People who don't value other people for their diversity.

    People who divide people using crime, beliefs, and race.

    Add to that a pandemic climate change and war.

    I want a Government that puts people’s unity and climate change high on their concerns.

    • Anker 2.1

      Patricia of course most of it is my opinion; but the fact that you can't change your sex.

      You don't know me but I am a live and let live person.

      IMO Labour have divided the country more than I have ever seen (including the Spring Box tour which was a time limited single issue event).

      • Tony Veitch 2.1.1

        IMO you're talking BS.

        A distinct and very vocal tiny minority have bellowed loud and long about the country being divided – but I've yet to see any concrete evidence of this!

        What has happened it a few principle-less politicians have latched onto these so-called divisions for their own nefarious political purposes and exaggerated them!

        Looking at Luxon, Seymour and Peters! And some people with limited critical thinking believe them!

        • Anker 2.1.1.1

          You think the country is united then? Where is your evidence for you opinion?

          • Tony Veitch 2.1.1.1.1

            How do you quantify 'unity'?

            Turnout for the Women's World Cup – lots of unity there.

            I mix with a wide range of people – ages and backgrounds. Some grizzle about the government, but some have always sounded off. Most are generally supportive of the direction the country is heading.

            Yes, anecdotal, but how else can you assess 'unity'? Certainly not by the bellowings of a vocal minority.

            • Anker 2.1.1.1.1.1

              The various political polls indicate that a slight majority of people think NZ is going in the wrong direction.

              We can agree to disagree about the whether NZ is very divided right now. Having different opinions is fine (at least I think it is, although you seem to be astonded that I might vote Act.).

              I have always voted for other people. The poor, the homeless or badly housed, the people on low incomes. In these areas NZ is worse off that when Jacinda came to power in 2017. One of the ways I measure this is one of the charities I donate too regularly emails me and tells me of the continual increase in demand for food parcels.

              This election I am putting my own priorities first. In NZ right now there is element of society, that are unwilling to debate any issues that they are concerned with. This is particularly true in the gender space. Groups like SUFW have had to go to the High Court to be able to hold a meeting about women's sexed based rights because trans rights activists have screemed loudly and shut them down. And of course the ultimate shutting down was the brutal violence and intimidation we saw in Albert Park.

              When groups like SUFW speak up we are called Terfs, alt right and even Nazis. Certainly this organisation is often referred to as a hate group. As a women who was assaulted in a public change room , I am particularly concerned to ensure public toilets and change rooms remain as safe as possible. Evidence shows women are more likely to be assaulted in unisex facilities(which makes complete sense. Its the reason we all lock our doors, as a deterant to burglars). I got out of the situation where I was attacked relatively unscathed. One of the reasons for this is I knew as soon as I saw him, he was not supposed to be in my change room. Had the change room allowed males in, it would have lulled me into a false sense of security. You have know idea what it has been like being told I am a bigot because I don't won't biological males in my change room. And the gas lightling around this, e.g "trans women are women". It has made me very angry. And the fact that this has come from the left has been profoundly disillusioning. Someone like Winston coming along and saying no man should be in a women's toilet, made me feel like a politician was finally respecting my sex based rights. And when Seymour came out and talked about how we should be able to talk about these issues without people being accused of trans genocide, was also very helpful

              The fact that Labour have performed so badly in health and education only made it easy for me to turn away.

  3. Ad 3

    Vance is accurate on smallbore evangelical believers, especially when compared to the institutional high churches, on the Ak North Shore and Christchurch suburbs.

    But she is clearly ignorant of the massive loyalty of south and west Auckland Pacific Islander church congregations to Labour. And they have kept Labour in power more than once.

    Vance's religious ignorance of politics is pretty typical.

  4. Mike the Lefty 4

    I wonder how many ACT, NZ First, and Democracy NZ candidates are also Flat Earthers?

    Up til now New Zealand has largely been spared the ignominy of nutter candidates in general elections, although we did have Mickey Mouse (The Mad Hatters Tea Party) and some dude calling himself Jesus Christ in 1972. We have had joke parties like the McGillicuddys, one issue parties aplenty and a couple of half-hearted attempts at fascist movements, but (thankfully) few if any genuine nut jobs.

    That seems to be changing this time. There are several people identified as candidates standing for ACT, NZ First, Democracy NZ as conspiracy theorists and/or anarchists. And if anyone needs to be told, these people do not believe in stable government or kindness – they stand for selfishness, disruption, chaos and deception, which they have deluded themselves into believing are examples of freedom and goodness.

    These people are dangerous. The parliament grounds rabble behaviour last year is just a sample of what these fruitcakes want to inflict on the rest of us, they see themselves as the persecuted, the Israelites described in the song by Desmond Dekker, they see the rest of NZ society as the persecutors and they are emboldened by the reluctance of our law enforcement to hold them to account.

    The fact that these people have been allowed to sneak into ACT and NZ First through the back door, and the leaders of these parties adopting a Three Wise Monkeys position, demonstrates the contempt the political right have for true democracy and decency, whatever they may claim otherwise.

  5. SPC 5

    It's about security vs insecurity.

    Labour made them the populace feel safe in 2020.

    So NACT stoked up fears about co-governance and crime (ram raids/gangs/truancy, vaping). Orewa Speech 11. On top of this is the right wings global anti-government hate propaganda (against the socialist/social democratic left/liberal/woke) that came into Aotearoa because of the reporting of the Ardern (lockdown and mandates) pandemic strategy. And we joined the culture wars thanks to the efforts of CH and CPAC sponsorship of global campaigns against gender identity and critical race theory (UNDRIP) to drive white race women into the arms of the right, lets go blonde Aryan spinster barbie (an umbrella for the coming flood of judgment as in the days of Noah end time advent cult).

    And even earlier the American support for Family First to oppose marijuana legalisation in 2020. And now the American white race Christian right supporting the Liberals opposition to One Voice – white race nation imperialism Brexit down under both sides of the Tasman.

    Creating a climate for Massey's white race empire to rise once again.

    • Anker 5.1

      Labour and Greens brought the culture wars to NZ by embracing gender ideology and critical race theory. Both have come out of American university and culture

      Some of the NZ populace have objected to these ideologies.

  6. observer 6

    The most important thing is that the nature of the alternative government is now – finally – being highlighted. Not just on political blogs (which don't matter much) but in the media.

    See the statements today from Luxon, Seymour and Peters. All forced to respond, because Hipkins has made it the issue. For the first time, the alternative is becoming real, not just some vague "change" for people who don't want to look too closely at what that would mean.

    Luxon will now be asked about this constantly, and if there's one thing Labour, the Greens and TPM need, it's Luxon talking in the media.

    Good.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.1

      See the statements today from Luxon, Seymour and Peters. All forced to respond, because Hipkins has made it the issue.

      And

      Luxon will now be asked about this constantly, and if there's one thing Labour, the Greens and TPM need, it's Luxon talking in the media.

      Aye. And his "minder" Nicola Willis cant save him….from himself

  7. adam 7

    So we going to get the Heresy of Prosperity theology as law then.

    How far can fundamentalist/christian fascists even pretend at that point?

    God – here is a clue…. is love. No more for you today, it's a mystery religion or did you miss the memo?

  8. adam 8

    My opinion is the mandates were heavy handed.

    As was the response to the tent village.

    The state stepped over the line, pure and simple. Mind you, my experience has been authoritarians – both left and right will say, they did not use the boot of the state enough.

  9. UncookedSelachimorpha 9

    Yes, we might get a real taste of a 'Trumpish / QAnon' government. Won't be as bad or extreme as the USA experience I sincerely hope, but could have some unpleasant similarities.

  10. LawfulN 10

    Nice disjunction, since conventional views are on the whole not reality based.

  11. Jake Dee 11

    Well exactly who are the strange weirdos are is always going to be a matter of subjective judgement, but if the left is going to make science it's guiding principle, then it has a hell of a hill to climb.

    Feminism and even more so it's mutant child transgenderism, aren't only in direct contradiction to thousands of years of human society but millions of years of evolution.

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