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Establishment hysteria and MMP

Written By: - Date published: 2:43 pm, September 25th, 2017 - 40 comments
Categories: election 2017, MMP - Tags: , , ,

The papers are full of the expected establishment hysteria today, trying to paint the election as a done deal for the Nats. Given Peters’ well known love for the media, I wonder what he will make of that? Anyway, the best pundit on the topic so far is Professor Richard Shaw.

‘No such thing’ as moral majority – politics professor

A politics professor says there’s no such thing as a ‘moral majority’ in the New Zealand constitution as the wash up from Saturday’s cliffhanger election continues.

National won 46 percent of the party vote, and has claimed it has a ‘moral’ right to govern despite losing its majority.

Professor Richard Shaw Shaw told The AM Show that when it comes to forming a government coalition, all that matters is that a combination of parties can persuade the Governor General they can reach 61 seats. “The word ‘moral’ doesn’t appear in our constitution,” said Prof Shaw.

Prof Shaw said Mr Peters faces his toughest decision yet under MMP, and that it is “not a comfortable position for him”.

“I think that he is caught between a bit of a rock and a bit of a hard place. I think it will depend significantly on what his base says. If his interpretation is that his voters … gave him a mandate to change the government, then if there is a moral question it becomes framed in terms of what the voters want.

Indeed.

“If, on the other hand, he thinks his voters are sending him a message that his job is to maintain a stable and continuous government, which was the National Party’s line, then that’s a different look.”

When asked who he believes won the election, Prof Shaw had this to say: “Nobody’s won the election yet. The people who won the election are the people who form the government.”

Further interesting reading for the day: Mark Sainsbury: Bad blood makes National-NZ First deal unlikely.

40 comments on “Establishment hysteria and MMP”

  1. Ed 1

    Add Trotter to that list.
    Sometimes he’s the msm’s useful idiot.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11926207

    • tc 1.1

      He’s not alone as the MSM’s tamed ‘lefties’ along with Pagani etc

    • Chris 1.2

      The most disturbing thing in Trotter’s article was that he thinks some people are more equal than others.

      “Look at who you would be denying if you went with Labour and the Greens assuming you are Winston. Because these just aren’t any 46 per cent these are the most powerful people in the country.”

      • DS 1.2.1

        He actually should have articulated his point a it further there.

        Basically, Trotter’s argument is that if Peters goes with Labour, the Ruling Class will cry foul, and use their extensive economic and social power to hamstring or destroy any resulting government (in fact, they will probably call for the abolition of MMP too). Trotter is pointing out, basically, that while Labour occasionally gets into government, it never actually gets into power.

        • AB 1.2.1.1

          Yes DS. Nicely put – that is Chris’s point and I agree with you that a L/NZF/G coalition would also spur another attack on MMP.
          Of course Chris doesn’t approve of this state of affairs – he just thinks it’s a reality and wants to avoid the danger.
          I think he may be right, however part of me wants a L/NZF/G coalition just to see how off the scale insane the reaction to it is. Would there be actual political violence and would the police connive at it? Would leftists be ‘disappeared’ off helicopters over the Tasman sea a la Pinochet? What would it be like to be at the mercy of the guy with the “pretty communist” sign? Because there are plenty like him. And was 1981 just a rehearsal?

          • mikesh 1.2.1.1.1

            Perhaps the best thing for Peters to do would be stay out of any coalition, but enter into a C&S agreement with Labour. Then the latter will have to bear the brunt of any attack by the PTB.

      • Incognito 1.2.2

        On election night Winston Peters made it very clear that he’s no friend of the elites and Trotter knows this (or so he should). Peters would love to deny a few powerful people I reckon.

    • DS 1.3

      Trotter’s very good at analysing political situations.

      From before the War.

  2. tc 2

    The MSM played way too big a big part in saturdays result, It should have an “RIP the truth” sign all over it.

    So they’ve moved on from reguritating Nact’s BS about non existent fiscal holes / lies about labour policy without framing it as the political stunt it was now to “…expected establishment hysteria …”.

    Just another day in the NZ MSM then.

    • Ed 2.1

      A new government must change the media

      • tc 2.1.1

        You’ll never change the owned corporate MSM, you need an alternative which we can still craft from the ruins that passes for TVNZ.

        It needs to be enshrined in legislation and made very difficult to unravel without the public seeing what you’re getting up to.

        Turdbull keeps trying but the ABC act is an inconvenient wall he doesn’t possess numbers in senate to change. If he tried the general public would be incandescent as it’s obvious why he wants to de-power them…..Rupert Murdoch etc

  3. Jim 3

    Bugger the media, bugger your professor, I`m selibrating the future Labour, NZ First, Greens coalition.

  4. Ant 5

    Can anyone explain to me why the media ( e.g. Gower et al who expressed outrage) didn’t put to Joyce: –

    “To clear your good name please publish your figures arriving at the 11.7 billion hole so that experts can confirm the veracity of the calculation”?

    • ianmac 5.1

      They have all tried to get an answer to that and Joyce just ignores them all and goes on about other “holes.
      Remember when Winston was hounded for nearly a year by National/Act accusing him of lying about a donation from Owen Glenn. Shock horror. NZF out of Parliament – sacked for lying about a donation.

      Today Joyce/English get rewarded for lying about $11billion, by getting increased votes. See the enormity and hypocrisy of that???

    • roy cartland 5.2

      Would have made no difference. Joyce would just have said: “Look at the Labour document yourself, it’s all there, clear as day” knowing no one would.

      He knew that it was nothing to do with fact, rather giving the ignorant and change-hating a straw to clutch at, and that’s what happened.

    • Ed 5.3

      Because they are compromised puppets.

    • Incognito 5.4

      Clearing his good name is an oxymoron.

  5. ianmac 6

    James Elliot has an hilarious summary of the media broadcasts of the election. In part he says:

    “TVOne has oddly gone for an audience of just two, one either side of Hosking and Hilary. I assume they’re members of the public as they’re quietly watching Hosking pontificate his way through his own answers to his own rhetorical questions.

    I realise they’re pundits when Hilary tries to throw a question to them. But that’s when Hosking shows off his newly-acquired ventriloquism skills and answers for them. ”

    The mercenary nature of Media survival demands that they keep him on because he is so blatantly arrogant. He gets reactions so he is worth money. I despise him.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/09/23/49719/election-tv-puts-captive-audience-through-hell

  6. Anne 7

    Bryan Gould – as usual – succinctly puts the case for rationality not hubris:

    http://www.bryangould.com/the-incoming-tide/

    • ianmac 7.1

      Yes Anne. That last line is great:
      “Rather than act as a mere adjunct to an existing administration, Winston could play an important role, as an elder statesman in, and foundation member of, a new government – one that catches the incoming tide.”

      Hear! Hear!

      • mauī 7.1.1

        In the States they call that person “The Grey Champion”. An unlikely elder figure that comes to power and sorts the nations problems, e.g. Lincoln, Roosevelt. In Winston’s case though he’s more a likely figure than unlikely.

  7. esoteric pineapples 8

    It is true that there is no such thing as a “moral majority” but if Winston decides that National does have the “moral majority” then he is justified in going with National on that basis because that is his call to make, just as he could go with National for any other reason that seemed important to him.

  8. Carolyn_nth 9

    The National Pary came into power 9 years ago on the back of Hollowmen propaganda, and the 2 track Dirty Politics smear machine (from KB and WO to the MSM). They don’t know anything else but misinformation, un-truths, double speak, smears and distractions

    “Moral”and “democracy” are words they use as part of the propaganda – they don’t practice them when it suits. See for instance to record number of uses of urgency in the House, by-passing the usual checks and balances.

    They will go down throwing everything from their tired old box of tricks – should we expect any different?

    We should expect better from many of the dominant voices in the MSM than to support and propagate this undermining of democracy – but I can’t see it happening in the near future.

  9. roy cartland 10

    Gordon Campbell reckons the trainwreck of a government in coalition with Winston is a poison chalice. If LAB/GRE miss out, they will have dodged a bullet.

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2017/09/gordon-campbell-on-the-election-result-and-likely-road-ahead/

    • I don’t reckon. Turning down the opportunity now would be a craven betrayal of all who voted for change. If Winston beckons, we must follow.
      🙂

    • garibaldi 10.2

      What a load of crock. There is no moral obligation to go with the largest single party full stop.

      • William 10.2.1

        Indeed.
        It’s sometimes useful to extrapolate a situation. Imagine a parallel universe where an election was also held on Saturday. The party votes received there were the same as here, except instead of a party called NZ First coming third, it was a party called Socialist Unity Party of NZ.
        If there was a “moral obligation”, which of Labour, Greens or SUP should form a coalition with National.
        Clearly a requirement that the largest party forms part of the government is a nonsense.

      • Ed 10.2.2

        If Hosking says it, it must be a lie.

  10. Carolyn_nth 11

    Bryce Edwards argues against the idea that National won the election and have a “moral mandate” to form the next government. He cites various sources that make the argument for National winning, then shows the fallacies of their arguments.

    There is a strong narrative at the moment that National has received an extraordinary result. But has it really? The vote for centre right parties has actually declined significantly at this election. At the 2014 election, the aggregate vote for National, Act and the Conservatives was over 52 per cent. This year, the final result for those parties is projected to be little more than 45 per cent. What’s more the National Party has now lost allies – United Future and the Maori Party are gone from Parliament, and Act’s party vote has halved. Basically, National has cannibalised the vote of other rightwing parties. In devouring its coalition partners, National might now look stronger, but in reality, fewer voters are actually supporting parties of the right.

    But it is the illusion that National has won significantly more vote than the political left that particularly needs addressing.

  11. mosa 12

    Brilliant thanks Anne.

    When the dust settles and we are looking for an intelligent viewpoint we don’t get it from the media circus and their agenda but from commentators like Gould.

    Where are these guys on the election night coverage with their succinct political gravitas ?

    Instead we get the usual screaming me me’s.

    • Anne 12.1

      Because they’re all in each other’s pockets mosa. It doesn’t matter which news outlet they work for, they regard themselves as an an exclusive clique and they watch each others backs knowing that if they get into hot-water the clique will watch their backs.

      Back in the Helen Clark days I went to a Labour Party conference at the Bruce Mason Theatre in Takapuna, Auckland. The media commandeered the nicest room in the building with a lovely view of the ocean for their leisure breaks. They set up a large table which they sat around mumbling to each other. No-one dared go near the room. I thought… “f**k you, its not your room… I’m going in to look at the view. I went in and they shut up like clams. I hung around for 5 mins. while they sat there silent and morose and staring at their navels. John Armstrong and Audrey Young were among them. Oh boy, did I enjoy it!

  12. Ankerrawshark 13

    I am astounded that National and moral authority are being used in the same sentence.

    Those such as Sir John Key who claim the numbers give national the moral majority display no awareness of principles or ethics (are we surprised).

    I believe NZ first has some moral duty to form a coalition with the party that reflects best its policies and values. That has to be labour and greens. But such an argument would be lost on those who have zero principles (other than winning) and absolutely no morals

  13. Incognito 14

    Of course National would argue it has a moral whatever because it is dog eat dog business for National; always has been and always will. It also was the reason why Steven Joyce ‘invented’ the tax hole because it was his moral right and duty in a dog eat dog campaign.

  14. Ankerrawshark 15

    Poor Mr. English reveals his Catholic roots with his call to recognise “moral authority”. This is something the Church asserts when it wants to make pronouncements on matters of faith. In the unprincipled scrabbling for power that charterises NZ politics, the delusion that morality had anything to do with its process is a lost cause.

    This was written by mr ankerrawshark not the usual commenter ms ankerrawshark k

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  • The Warehouse – where everyone gets a virus
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    7 days ago
  • After the Pandemic
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  • Using privacy law to prevent the death penalty
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    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #12, 2020
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  • Raise the Bar: 10 questions to ask your employer proposing redundancy
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  • Hard News: Together Alone
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    1 week ago
  • Why timing is everything: ‘A time to refrain from embracing’ starts today
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  • Dealing with the Covid-19 Tsunami.
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  • What about renters?
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
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  • Living within our means.
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  • Transparency and the pandemic
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
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  • ‘Overjoyed’: a leading health expert on New Zealand’s coronavirus shutdown, and the challengin...
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  • One way to solve the housing crisis
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  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
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    PunditBy Liam Hehir
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  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
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  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
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  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
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  • All aboard the Covid Train
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  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
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    1 week ago

  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
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  • Essential workers leave scheme established
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
    A Government WhatsApp channel has been launched to help make information more easily accessible and shareable in the fight against COVID-19. Govt.NZ, which is free to use on any mobile device, will carry information and news for the public, businesses, healthcare providers, not for profits and local government. It can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
    The Government has announced a plan to enable the safe, orderly exit of tens of thousands of stranded foreign nationals from New Zealand during the current COVID-19 Alert Level 4 restrictions, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has said. “When we moved into lockdown a week ago, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says the Government is delivering on its commitment to support general practice doctors and nurses, and pharmacies on the front-line of our fight against COVID-19. "For us to overcome COVID-19, we need community health services such as general practice and community pharmacy to step up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
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    1 day ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
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    1 day ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
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    2 days ago
  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
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    2 days ago
  • Health system scaled up to prepare for COVID-19
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Essential media COVID-19 guidelines refined
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    2 days ago
  • Supermarkets able to open on Easter Sunday
    The Government is ensuring supermarkets can open on Easter Sunday so we can buy groceries, but stay closed on Good Friday allowing workers to take a break. This provides a balanced approach and ensures we avoid large queues that two days closure may cause. “Supermarkets will be able to open ...
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    2 days ago
  • New Zealand defence personnel conclude mission at Taji
    Following the successful conclusion of the Building Partner Capacity (BPC) mission at Taji, New Zealand defence personnel are returning to New Zealand from Iraq, in accordance with the Cabinet decision made in June 2019, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “New Zealand is very ...
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    2 days ago
  • State of National Emergency extended
    The State of National Emergency to help stop the spread of COVID-19 has been extended for a further seven days, Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare said. The initial declaration on March 25 lasted seven days and can be extended as many times as necessary. “Since we went into isolation ...
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    2 days ago
  • Strong Govt books support ‘go hard, go early’ response
    New Zealand’s ability to go hard and go early in the fight against COVID-19 has been underpinned by strong Government finances and the growing economy heading into this global pandemic, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown financial statements for the eight months to the end ...
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    2 days ago
  • Christchurch Hospital Hagley ICU to open to support COVID-19 response
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says 36 new intensive care beds at Christchurch Hospital’s new Hagley building are being fast tracked so they are available for treatment of COVID-19 patients.   The Ministry of Health is working with contractor CPB and Canterbury DHB to enable access to the hospital’s ICU, ...
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    3 days ago
  • Government supports Air NZ freight flights
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
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    5 days ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
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    6 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
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    6 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
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    6 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
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    1 week ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
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    1 week ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
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    1 week ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
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    1 week ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago