web analytics

Garner’s TPP rant rejected by the silent majority

Written By: - Date published: 10:15 am, February 2nd, 2016 - 81 comments
Categories: capitalism, democracy under attack, trade - Tags: , , , ,

Duncan Garner does good work sometimes, but he is also capable of pure bollocks. Yesterday’s ill informed rant pushing the TPP was a shocker. (Garner spent the rest of the day re-tweeting anyone who said something nice about it – ouch.)

TPP or die – why we need it

“TPP or die”? Really?

The political consensus on free trade is over.

No it isn’t. Labour has consistently said that they support free trade. In the case of the TPP they reject all the fishooks that come with it. It’s like claiming that someone rejects food because they refuse to eat a poisoned apple.

After decades of supporting free-trade Labour has chosen to veer left into the bosom of NZ First and the Greens and oppose the TPP. It’s short-sighted and totally hypocritical in my view. It looks like the party has had its strings pulled by anti-TPP academic Jane Kelsey.

And we’re in to the kind of scaremongering that tells you much more about the attacker than the attacked. And so on and so on I’ll spare you the rest.

Garner owes it to his readers (and his country) to be informed about both sides of the TPP debate before running off at the keyboard like this. Please Mr Garner, go read these resources at TPP Legal:

Expert Paper #1: Treaty Making, Parliamentary Democracy, Regulatory Sovereignty & The Rule of Law
Expert Paper #2: Chapter 9 on Investment
Expert Paper #3: Māori Rights, Te Tiriti O Waitangi and the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement
Expert Paper #4: The Environment Under TPPA Governance
Expert Paper #5: The Economics of the TPPA

Or if that seems like too much hard work, why not listen to your readers? (Poll below.)

The truth is Labour has taken a massive risk opposing the TPP. I sense the silent majority understands we have to be part of it, despite the noise from the usual suspects.

Maybe you don’t understand the silent majority as well as you think you do.

tpp-online-poll

81 comments on “Garner’s TPP rant rejected by the silent majority ”

  1. Brendon Harre -Left wing Liberal 1

    Garner is in danger of becoming another victim of uncertain careers due to technology. Smart phones, computers and the internet are destroying traditional MSM. I don’t know if he has any tertiary education but he might need Labour’s Future of Work retraining assistance the way he is going. TV3 viewership is falling off a cliff. If Garner keeps giving this sort of rubbish journalism then people have a choice and are not afraid of using it.

    • Tc 1.1

      Its not journalism its shilling for the govt like the rest of mediawonks do.

      Technology is not an issue if you provide intelligent, insightful independant content that attracts an audience.

      This is where dunc, paddy, pauley etc fail spectacularly as they shill their butts off for a salary having ditched any pretense at being even handed long ago.

  2. ianmac 2

    I marched with the Blenheim anti-TPP on Saturday.
    However having just read Brian Easton’s piece on Pundit, I am not so certain that we shouldn’t sign it. The total downside to not being in could be a disaster. Maybe that is what Helen was getting at?

    Brian:“That puts us in an extremely invidious position over the TPPA. Sure, we could turn it down, losing both its benefits and its downsides. Were we to do so, however, we would compromise the trust our international activity depends upon, especially the possibility of other trade deals which would open up markets currently restricting our exports.”
    http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/can-we-afford-not-to-adopt-the-tppa

    • Lanthanide 2.1

      We also shouldn’t underestimate the fact that the TPPA gets us the “foot in the door” with both US and Japan, two countries we’ve been trying to get trade agreements with for decades.

      If we back out of the TPPA, are they likely to sign up for another agreement with us?

      Once our foot is in the door with the TPPA, will we be able to use that as a basis for further negotiations, either enhancements to the TPPA itself or additional trade agreements?

      • mpledger 2.1.1

        We have little leverage – the leverage is all with the big players and they are going to screw us over in any post-deal negotiations.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1

          The US is using the TPP to economically isolate the rising Pacific powers of China and Russia.

          NZ needs to decide if it wants to be a party to that imperial strategy.

          • Bob 2.1.1.1.1

            “The US is using the TPP to economically isolate the rising Pacific powers of China and Russia”
            NZ already has a free trade agreement with China, so the TPP would allow us to position NZ as the trade gateway between the US and China

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1.1

              What is a “trade gateway”?

              Why would goods from China or the US take an unnecessary detour this far south as part of their journey?

              • Bob

                If the imposed tariffs exceeded the cost of shipping then yes.

                • Colonial Viper

                  What tarriffs are you thinking of?

                  The US and China already have US$0.6T in bilateral trade, they sorted out most of their tarriff issues in the 80’s and 90’s.

                  Further a business model based on trying to dodge tariffs seems to be pretty limited.

                • Duncan

                  You need to get with the country of origin clauses Bob. They expressly state you cannot do this.

          • pete 2.1.1.1.2

            China are Russia are probably the only remaining imperialist regimes left. Both are empires, pure and simple.

      • lprent 2.1.2

        The problem with the TPPA is that it is full of costs. The few benefits (very few) fall on a small select group of beneficiaries in agriculture. The costs all fall on the urban population of NZ.

        Sure you could argue that the benefits trickle down, but so far that hasn’t happened, and looks very unlikely to happen to the population affected by the costs.

        For some strange reason this is not perceived to be a fair deal for kiwis.

        The commenters like Garner, Jacobi, Easton, and even you are essentially arguing the rapists mantra. When being raped, we should lie back and enjoy the experience because otherwise we might not enjoy the benefits of being raped again.

        Since our tech, manufacturing, and even tourism export industries, who employ the majority of our population, already get pretty much unlimited access to those markets – why should we care that a small minority get more access to certain markets?

        • Lanthanide 2.1.2.1

          I’m not arguing in favour of it, just pointing out it’s something to take into consideration.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3

        If we back out of the TPPA, are they likely to sign up for another agreement with us?

        Who gives a fuck?

        I’d rather stick to principles and look after NZers than throw out the principles to sell out NZers via a bad deal.

      • FOMO is a bad philosophy in your personal life and a bad philosophy for international relations. We shouldn’t sign a bad deal just because we’re afraid of being left out of a deal.

    • Nic the NZer 2.2

      Whats the big deal about exporting anyway? It just means people working here for foreigners to enjoy the benefits. NZ needs domestic demand and will never get there by running an export growth strategy.

      • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1

        We are far to small to be able to ignore exporting. I know it, David shearer knows, Phil Goff knows it, Helen Clark knows it, Mike Moore knows it

        • weka 2.2.1.1

          If all you illustrious people know it, perhaps you could explain why.

          One of our biggest earners isn’t export earnings.

          • TepidSupport 2.2.1.1.1

            Tourism is our current biggest export earner but aren’t the biggest visitors from our most lucrative trading partners?
            UK, USA and Aust have always been big but as our presence has grown in Asian markets, so to have visitors from those markets… Could this be a link that would increase with more/ better exposure to markets through TPPA?

        • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1.2

          We are far to small to be able to ignore exporting.

          Delusional bollocks.

          If we stopped over investing in a few areas to export more we’d then have enough productivity available to cover all areas adequately for the local market.

        • Nic the NZer 2.2.1.3

          Thats clearly bollocks. As a small country NZ doesn’t need to exert much effort for its export capacity to be used up. Larger countries need to exert much more effort to keep their export capacity utilised.

        • Tautuhi 2.2.1.4

          Not against free trade, just don’t like the fish hooks in the ISDS Clauses?

      • The Chairman 2.2.2

        “Whats the big deal about exporting anyway?”

        Due to our debt based money supply, nations are required to export to maintain and grow their wealth.

        • Nic the NZer 2.2.2.1

          That is quite clearly incorrect.

          • The Chairman 2.2.2.1.1

            No, I’m afraid it’s not.

            Money is largely borrowed into existence, thus export revenue is required to pay the interest incurred. Keep in mind, only the principal enters our economy, therefore, to repay the interest, revenue must be sourced offshore.

            Here is a little something further to ponder:

            • Nic the NZer 2.2.2.1.1.1

              I am more than well aware how banking functions.

              There are some major issues with what you suggest the implications of that are,
              1) The world as a whole doesn’t export anywhere, and net exports sum to zero across countries. If there is insufficient to repay the interest, then how does the whole world pay the interest on its mostly debt based money supply?
              2) NZ pays the interest in NZ$ on its mostly NZ$ based debts, so how does it get those payments from overseas then anyway by exporting? Of course pretty much the only institutions which can create NZ$ payments are in New Zealand.

              So, no this is not a reason we need to export.

              • The Chairman

                To answer your first question, countries default or surrender assets. Some get away with running deficits.

                As for your second question, export revenue exchanges into NZ dollars when entering our economy, growing our money supply (without interest incurred) thus giving us the fiscal scope to cover our interest burden.

                Therefore, this is one of the main reason all nations strive to grow their exports. It’s a necessity under the current global monetary system.

                • Nic the NZer

                  No, those responses don’t move it any further,

                  Defaulting, surrendering assets or running deficits don’t (according to your earlier statement of the money supply) create new non-debt based money for the world to use. There is still insufficient money to pay the interest. Clearly this is not true of the world, and clearly exports don’t resolve this as they are internal to the world economy (we still don’t trade with any other planets).

                  The second statement is a non-answer. Foreign exchange transactions don’t create net currency (e.g don’t create or destroy either currency). They are an exchange of one quantity of one currency for another quantity of a different currency, changing who owns the currency. There is still no way for there to be enough created to pay the interest (given there wasn’t enough to pay the interest to begin with, that is).

                  Note the issue for the NZ$ economy is basically applied for the world economy, but de-composed into a bunch of separate currencies which all must make interest payments in their own denominations.

                  As I am suggesting, the payment of interest on the money supply is not an issue to begin with. “So, no this is not a reason we need to export.”

                  • The Chairman

                    You seem to be a little confused.

                    I didn’t claim defaulting creates new non debt based money.

                    Defaulting is the failure to pay.

                    Surrendering assets of the same value as the loan/interest liability offsets the burden.

                    Running deficits puts off the burden.

                    Export revenue, on the other hand, grows our money supply interest free. Again, giving us the fiscal scope to cover our local burden.

                    Trade surpluses can and have been sufficient for nations to meet their burden, but not all nations do.

                    When one nation faces insufficient funds, another one or more will be the benefactor (trade wise).

                    If one nation has insufficient funds (and a number do) the above (defaulting, surrendering assets or running deficits) is generally what happens.

                    While straight foreign exchange transactions don’t create net currency, you are forgetting new export revenue is being added, thus increasing the local money supply (interest free).

                    The interest burden on our debt based money supply is indeed a major issue.

                    When money is created, only the principal enters our economy, therefore how do you think a nation generates the revenue to cover the interest incurred?

                    The current monetary system and the need to export are directly related.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      “Export revenue, on the other hand, grows our money supply interest free. ”

                      This is the statement you need to explain, if somebody decides to buy NZ exports in NZ$, how do they get those funds without borrowing the money (adding to the debt)?

                      Either the funds are taken out of the NZ economy first (by selling imports to NZ) then transferred back later (maybe not during the same period of time, foreigners can hold NZ$, but their supply is limited) Or new funds must be borrowed with an additional interest burden.

                      There is of course a perfectly good explanation for how principal and interest are routinely paid, without involving which ever kind of mental gymnastics you believe explain this.

                  • The Chairman

                    “If somebody decides to buy NZ exports in NZ$, how do they get those funds without borrowing the money (adding to the debt)?”

                    They exchange their foreign funds. Exchanging funds doesn’t create new money (as you pointed out above, there is no net difference to the money supply).

                    If you had a perfectly good explanation , you would have answered the question I put forward to you.

                    I had the courtesy to answer all of yours.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Well i did assert your theory was nonsense.

                      Anyway, i will put it across now. So the interest is due on a stock of debt based money. But this stock turns over as a flow of spending. As long as the turn over of the stock is large enough the interest on the stock can be paid each period. Its usually about 5% p.a so not a problem to make interest payments.

                      Again nothing to do with exports. So if you are paid a salary and buy goods and services and are paid a salary and buy goods and services again then the flow from a stock of your salary is already twice as large. More than enough to pay about five percent p.a interest.

                  • The Chairman

                    That is totally incorrect.

                    The circulation of money within an economy doesn’t grow the money supply or the nations overall wealth.

                    Therefore, there’s no new funding being generated within the economy to cover the interest the funding incurs.

                    What you have described would result in paying the interest with the initial borrowed funding.

                    Moreover, when the circulation of money is coupled with expenditure on imports and offshore ownership, our wealth and money supply is reduced. Hence, export revenue is vital while operating under the current monetary system.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Your kidding right?

                      “The circulation of money within an economy doesn’t grow the money supply”

                      Which is the stock and un-changed by circulation.

                      “or the nations overall wealth.”

                      Which is a flow of spending. All that is needed is for the average dollar to be borrowed once and turned over twice and then the resulting flow is twice the stock already. This can and obviously does happen and the average interest rate on debt is only a fraction of the stock anyway. If its 5% then for the interest to be paid that year, the average dollar needs only turn over about 1.05 times per year.

                      “What you have described would result in paying the interest with the initial borrowed funding.”

                      Yes, exactly. And if the lenders pay their staff then this even goes back into circulation again.

                      Its even measured, the velocity of money for US, M3 shown here even shows this occurring for money stocks (rather than debt stocks),
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money
                      For the flow not to exceed the stock the variable LogM3v would have to be zero at all times, which it’s not!

                      The underlying problem your statements about spending face is, as you conceded earlier, exports don’t produce additional funding anyway. If paying the interest is a problem imports can’t possibly solve it.

                  • The Chairman

                    No, I’m not kidding.

                    While the circulation of money within an economy generates revenue for some and results in expenditure for others, it doesn’t grow the nations money supply. Thus, leaving no new funding created to cover the interest incurred on the initial funding.

                    The velocity of money is the rate at which money changes hands within an economy over a period of time. For example, say our money supply equates to $1 and that $1 changes hands several times in a year, GDP will be calculated to be several dollars but the money supply remains $1.

                    Paying the interest with the initial borrowed funding can be done, however it will quickly render the pool dry. Requiring more funding to be borrowed, attracting further interest.

                    Bank returns largely head offshore, further reducing the local money supply. What they pay their staff, thus what goes back into local circulation is a mere drop in the bucket.

                    I didn’t concede exports don’t produce new funding. My argument is exactly the opposite.

                    Exporting is how a nation grows its wealth, potentially giving us the fiscal scope to cover the interest incurred in our debt based monetary system.

                    • Nic the NZer

                      “While the circulation of money within an economy generates revenue for some and results in expenditure for others, it doesn’t grow the nations money supply.”

                      Which is what I said.

                      “Thus, leaving no new funding created to cover the interest incurred on the initial funding.”

                      You seem to be under the miss-apprehension that interest payments reduce the stock of money. Interest payments are a flow of payment (like a lenders income), and as long as lenders re-spend them (e.g pay their staff) then they re-enter circulation.

                      “Paying the interest with the initial borrowed funding can be done, however it will quickly render the pool dry.”

                      No, that’s a miss-apprehension on your part. When you pay the interest of the loan, then the loan is not paid down and the stock of financial assets (money) does not shrink. When you pay down the principal on-top of the interest then the loan does shrink however. Just as borrowing creates money, repaying the debt destroys it. This should be clear to anybody who has had a loan, just from looking at a series of statements of how much they owe over time.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.3

      I get this feeling too.

      When the mafia thugs come around for protection money, and the cops are on the take, a principled stand will just get you killed.

      • Jones 2.3.1

        Very good point… there are examples aplenty of how the US rolls when it doesn’t get its own way.

    • mpledger 2.4

      Key capitulates to American interests so it’s not going to happen *but* NZ should the TPPA and take everyone but the USA with us and sign a deal that is purely about trade.

    • Blue Sky 2.5

      Trade is good if it is fair. The problem is that the TPP comes with some nasty fish hooks for democracy regarding offshore investors which are probably already influencing NZ government decisions. Is offshore investment contributing fairly to the nation’s economy and society? And I do not mean simply injecting capital which can easily be moved out again.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.6

      Yeah, well, all I can say about that is that Easton is still in 19th century economics. He usually makes some good points here and there but, like most economists and politicians, he hasn’t yet realised that trade should be a nice to have and not a necessity.

      • Wayne 2.6.1

        Draco,

        Is this intended to be a serious comment, “trade should be a nice to have and not a necessity.”

        Where do you think New Zealand is going to get its pharmaceuticals, motor-vehicles, aircraft, just about every kind of electronics, etc. In fact just about everything a modern society needs are the products of industrialization and basically we don’t make them and neither can we ever make more than a small fraction of the range of things we need. There is simply no way for New Zealand to create all these things, and that was true even when we had import licencing. We assembled things, we did not actually make them from raw materials.

        Presumably you are aware that literally since it formation, New Zealand has fundamentally been a trading nation. The foundations of our prosperity are dependent on that fact.

        To provide everything a modern society needs basically requires the concerted effort of around 500 million people. So the EU can provide every modern thing that it needs, so can the US, and so can China and East Asia. It is the reason why the US economy is not nearly as heavily dependent on trade as ours. But even among these three great industrial blocs there are inefficiencies that drives trade among them. As an example Germany makes better machine tools than anyone else.

        More seriously if those who are anti-TPP use as the argument that trade is simply a luxury, then they will be held up to ridicule. And I would note that way too many of the radical objectors, at least of the Green hue, seem to be in this space. And I know it was this kind of sentiment that really exasperated Tim Groser.

        To avoid this trap, I would note that Labour’s press release on TPP started with the point that it supports free trade.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.6.1.1

          Where do you think New Zealand is going to get its pharmaceuticals, motor-vehicles, aircraft, just about every kind of electronics, etc. In fact just about everything a modern society needs are the products of industrialization and basically we don’t make them and neither can we ever make more than a small fraction of the range of things we need. There is simply no way for New Zealand to create all these things, and that was true even when we had import licencing.

          Load of bollocks.

          We could produce all the pharmaceuticals that we use here. It’s all done by machine after all. We could probably even develop them although working in conjunction with other countries would help on that score.

          As for cars – yes, we could produce them here. Again, we have the resources and they’re produced by machines. Of course, we should be getting rid of cars to help prevent climate change.

          Aircraft could be made here as well. We have ~25 million tonnes of bauxite in Northland and our ironsands contain a huge amount of titanium and, yet again, they’re made by machines.

          The way we get to produce all that we require is through increased productivity and all that means putting in place all the necessary automated infrastructure. We should have been doing this for decades but, for some stupid bloody reason, we came to believe that we couldn’t do it ourselves.

          Presumably you are aware that literally since it formation, New Zealand has fundamentally been a trading nation. The foundations of our prosperity are dependent on that fact.

          Wrong. Our prosperity is based upon the fact that we developed our economy to provide what we wanted. Over the last few decades we’ve undermined that.

          To provide everything a modern society needs basically requires the concerted effort of around 500 million people.

          BS.

          Food requires ~2% of the working population in growing food.
          Health ~1% (and I’m probably over estimating that from my reading of what we have now)
          Deliveries around the nation I haven’t actually seen the figures for but, at a guess, ~5% but that would include all home deliveries for food/other orders. We’d have to maximise effectiveness and that would mean using trains rather than trucks.
          Builders around 1% but we could possibly go to 2% for a short time to build up housing stock
          Retail would be a thing of the past – you go online. Again, we need effectiveness.

          I’d be surprised if we needed 50% of our working population working to do all the necessary stuff. The other 50% could be in R&D to develop the stuff that you think we’d be missing out on. That’s just under 2 million people in R&D.

          This would apply to every country if they developed their own economies rather than pulled out raw resources to feed the developed economies so that they could then export back to the undeveloped countries. Trade would still happen but it would be information and a few luxury items here and there. It most definitely wouldn’t be necessary.

          But even among these three great industrial blocs there are inefficiencies that drives trade among them.

          No, what drives trade among them is our delusional financial system that’s designed to make a few people rich.

          I would note that Labour’s press release on TPP started with the point that it supports free trade.

          I support free-trade. The difference is that I support it through standards rather than agreements and realise that free-trade must inevitably result in little to no trade.

          • Nck 2.6.1.1.1

            Really liked that response Draco….

          • Wayne 2.6.1.1.2

            Draco,

            Why do you think Airbus and Boeing now make virtually all the worlds civil aircraft?

            Would be competitors (Bombardier Sukhoi, CAC) are unable to make aircraft as fuel efficient as either the new models of the A320 or B737.

            Similarly there are only a small number of engine makers (GE, Pratt & Whitney, RR and various consortia including these companies). Neither the Russians or the Chinese can make engines as fuel efficient as the main manufacturers.

            These days Aeroflot has to use aircraft made by Boeing and Airbus in order to be competitive.

            It is simply futile and also grossly misleading to suggest New Zealand could make such aircraft. And so it is for a whole lot of medical equipment, such as MRS machines.

            • BM 2.6.1.1.2.1

              Draco thinks we should have a space program.

              Open mike 20/12/2015

              Draco lives in his own little world.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Draco thinks we should have a space program.

                Yep, I do. It’s a solid platform for all that R&D I keep saying that we need.

                And I live in this world. You, Wayne and RWNJs in general live centuries in the past. Labour might, just might, be realising the the now and the future is not like the past.

            • framu 2.6.1.1.2.2

              would you also agree its grossly misleading to paint opposition to the TPP as being anti trade?

            • Draco T Bastard 2.6.1.1.2.3

              Why do you think Airbus and Boeing now make virtually all the worlds civil aircraft?

              Because of our delusional financial system and IP protocols that prevent people actually developing their own solutions.

              Would be competitors (Bombardier Sukhoi, CAC) are unable to make aircraft as fuel efficient as either the new models of the A320 or B737.

              Neither the Russians or the Chinese can make engines as fuel efficient as the main manufacturers.

              Of course they can. If it was done once then it can be done again. The problem most likely isn’t that they can’t but because of the concept of economies of scale (which 3D printing will see the end of) and patents.

              It is simply futile and also grossly misleading to suggest New Zealand could make such aircraft.

              No, it really isn’t. It’s grossly misleading and downright pathetic to say that we shouldn’t try.

              And so it is for a whole lot of medical equipment, such as MRS machines.

              How many people does it take to R&D such a machine? Two or three hundred? How many then to build them? Of course that latter bit does require the build up of infrastructure:

              * Extraction of raw resources
              * Processing of those resources
              * Building the factories

              Building this stuff is what the government should be doing. Especially the latter as we should be doing huge R&D into 3D printing so the factories that we build can produce anything and aren’t restricted by economies of scale.

            • Duncan 2.6.1.1.2.4

              Wayne,
              Half of Air NZ’s fleet is made up of aircraft manufactured by Bombardier, Aerospatiel and Beechcraft, and almost half of new orders are from those manufacturers.
              And you will probably say, well yes, but they only fly the regional routes.
              The fact is, all of Air NZ’s profits are made on domestic routes. Nothing is made on international routes overall, although one or two are profitable.
              There is always a place for niche players, and NZ is exactly that sort of place.
              What is wrong for NZ is the continued attempt to become a global supplier of industrial intensive and environmentally destructive dairy products.
              NZ would be far better building an aerospace industry, as we have done in the past.

          • tinfoilhat 2.6.1.1.3

            Draco it’s quite depressing that you make those on the right of politics look sensible.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.6.1.1.3.1

              Neither the Left nor the Right-wing look sensible as they’re both stuck in thinking that is centuries old and has proven that it doesn’t work time and time again.

          • pat 2.6.1.1.4

            bananas….what about bananas?

    • seeker 2.7

      ianmac@11.17am

      http://www.bryangould.com/a-second-bite-at-the-cherry/

      Bryan Gould lays out very clearly why the TPP is not a ‘trade’ agreement as we know it

      And as for Japan….. they seem to be almost as untrustworthy as our government

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/japans-economy-minister-akira-amari-resigns-bribery-allegations

      Good on you for marching and thankyou as i have a bit of a leg and spine injury at the mo. but I’m with you in march spirit!

      • ianmac 2.7.1

        Thanks Seeker. Bryan writes, “It (the Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI)) was originally worked on in secret, but when the draft was leaked in 1997, it drew widespread criticism from civil society groups and developing countries, particularly over the perceived intention and danger that the agreement would make it difficult for governments to regulate foreign investors.”
        So the real reason for secrecy!

  3. Puckish Rogue 3

    No it isn’t. Labour has consistently said that they support free trade.

    Just like these guys come in peace:

    This is just posturing by Andrew Little,he knows Labour won’t get into power so he can say whatever he likes

  4. shorts 4

    so its Garner’s “ill informed” rant against the TPPA opposed by a unscientific poll of largely ill informed people saying labour was right in opposing the deal

    there are better arguments to be had than those purely against Garner who is at best inconsistant

  5. Bill 5

    I wish people – including the Labour Party – would get their heads around trade.

    First up. For the Labour Party to claim it has always supported ‘free trade’ is a lie.

    Secondly. For the Labour Party to announce it’s always supported trade is just just so obvious that it isn’t worth stating. I’ll put it this way – I don’t know anyone who is opposed to trade. Hell, as a market abolitionist, I have no problem with trade. Why would I have?

    Trade isn’t, wasn’t and never will be the issue. What matters are the rules that determine how trade is conducted.

    Any trade (either more or less regulated) happening in the context of a market economy is trade happening within the auspices of a fucked up framework. Free trade is just that framework pushing itself to an extreme.

    Are Labour really meaning to say they’ve always supported some form of market economy? If that’s the case, then they should just say that instead of suggesting that all trade, is de facto, trade that happens in the context of market economics.

  6. Ad 6

    He is but one of many influential New Zealanders placing a major bet in the hands of the majority of US Republicans who control the Senate and Congress. That’s not a bunch of people I’d trust to make rational decisions right now. Best of luck Duncan!

  7. Peter Bradley 7

    The silent majority will go along with most things in general as long as it doesn’t disrupt their lives too much. These types of trade agreements are, historically speaking, relatively new so people are willing to accept them until they experience something to change their minds.
    You will not witness significant concern about or opposition to the TPPA until it’s impacts begin to be felt and experienced by a wide breadth of NZ society.

    Things like PHARMAC not being able to afford certain future drug treatments. Drug treatments that are available to citizens in developing countries like India that use generics and aren’t in the TPPA. NZ citizens will need to die in reasonably significant numbers before that sinks in and stirs a stronger opposition.
    What about our government being sued successfully by a foreign company because of a law change to protect peoples health or the environment? How will NZ taxpayers feel when millions of dollars are paid out to a foreign companies or law changes reversed? When that actually happens – at some point in the future – people will be shocked and outraged in greater numbers.
    How will local business feel when foreign companies get special protections and compensation from the tax payer that puts local business at significant competitive disadvantage in their own market?
    These things will actually have to happen first and over time genuine opposition will grow and not just in NZ. Until then the TPPA – in it’s current form – is going ahead.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      You will not witness significant concern about or opposition to the TPPA until it’s impacts begin to be felt and experienced by a wide breadth of NZ society.

      We’re actually witnessing it now. This is probably due to the previous FTAs that we’ve entered into.

    • Reddelusion 7.2

      And what you say ain’t going to happen , your making this stuff up

    • Reddelusion 7.3

      And what you say ain’t going to happen , your making this stuff up

  8. Blue Sky 8

    I fear you are right. People are not paying attention to the implications and consequences of the contract. The vision of this government is myopic.

  9. Tautuhi 9

    People in NZ don’t think, they let MSM and John Key think for them?

  10. b waghorn 10

    If its such a good trade deal you would think that farmers would be singing its praises , but most of the feed back I’ve seen in the farmer papers and fb pages is negative.

  11. swordfish 11

    Recent Polls on the TPPA conducted by major pollsters …….
    http://sub-z-p.blogspot.co.nz/2016/01/tppa.html

  12. ropata 12

    The thing that scares me about the TTPA is that it looks like the Asia-pacific version of the EU and look how that turned out for small countries like Ireland and Greece.

  13. Duncan 13

    Garner is the worst type of commentator. Pretending he is the new John Campbell is bad enough in itself. But now he is promoting himself as a man of the people, of the north. A pig hunter in boat shoes, a rapist of the oceans, and an all round greedy bugger.
    Garner’s diatribe is always the same. Terrible thing happening. John Key sitting on his hands doing nothing. Here’s what needs to happen. House prices still going up. House Price Forecast to continue rising. Buster robbing me blind. Hey, I have a house making plenty. John Key is awesome. Labour hate free trade. Godzone is wonderful.
    Time for another scoff of that free pizza.

  14. The Chairman 14

    Has Labour confirmed it will walk away from the deal if it can’t renegotiate it?

    Has anyone in the media asked this vital question?

    • ropata 14.1

      no because it’s a diversion dickhead.
      why hassle Labour about some shit that National is pulling?

      • The Chairman 14.1.1

        The possibility of renegotiating the deal is slim.

        Therefore, voters have a legitimate right to know where Labour will stand if they fail to renegotiate the deal.

  15. Tanz 15

    It’s a lessening of Nationhood and an embracing of global politics. That’s why the UN is all for it. We will lose power and sovereignty and many rights. What a sellout. Labour is divided over it, while Key is selling us out. pathetic. all the same really.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Building back better
    It’s a three-week recess in Parliament – so, no bills are going through the House and no select committees are meeting. But the hard work of our ministers continues, and many of our MPs are back in their electorates, taking the opportunity to meet with local communities and businesses about ...
    5 days ago
  • Greens call for a Warrant of Fitness for rental homes
    The Green Party is launching a petition today calling on the Government’s Healthy Homes Standards to be backed up with a proper Warrant of Fitness (WoF) for rental homes. ...
    1 week ago
  • Securing our recovery: By the numbers
    Our plan to secure New Zealand’s recovery from COVID-19 is working, with the past three months seeing the second-highest number of people moved off a main benefit into work since records began. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • More Kiwis in work through recovery plan
    The latest statistics show the Government’s focus on jobs is working. The net number of people on a main benefit dropped by around 11,190 people during the past three months, with around 31,240 people moving off a benefit into work. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Green Party appoints new Chief of Staff
    The Green Party has appointed a new Parliamentary Chief of Staff, Robin Campbell. ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Warmer Kiwi Homes smashes annual target
    The Government's highly successful insulation and heating programme, Warmer Kiwi Homes, is celebrating a key milestone with the completion of more than 38,000 insulation and efficient heater installs in the year to the end of June, smashing its target of 25,000 installs for the year. “The Warmer Kiwi Homes scheme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Exemption granted for Wallabies to enter NZ
    Bledisloe Cup rugby will be played in New Zealand after the Australian rugby team received an economic exemption to enter New Zealand. Travel between Australia and New Zealand was suspended on Friday for at least eight weeks following the worsening of the COVID outbreak across the Tasman. New Zealanders have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes three diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced three New Zealand Head of Mission appointments. They are: Mike Walsh as Ambassador to Iran Michael Upton as Ambassador to Ethiopia and the African Union Kevin Burnett as Ambassador to Indonesia Iran “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long-standing and constructive relationship with Iran, despite a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved for West Coast and Marlborough
    The Government has activated Enhanced Task Force Green (ETFG) in response to the West Coast and Marlborough floods, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “To assist with the clean-up, up to $500,000 will be made available to support the recovery in Buller and Marlborough which has experienced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Govt support for upgrade of Eden Park players facilities
    Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Grant Robertson has announced funding to upgrade the players facilities at Eden Park ahead of upcoming Women’s World Cup events. Eden Park is a confirmed venue for the Rugby World Cup 2021, the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup 2022, and a proposed venue for matches of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • More jobs and quicker public transport motoring towards West Auckland
    Work to improve public transport for West Aucklanders and support the region’s economic recovery by creating hundreds of jobs has officially kicked off, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff this morning marked the start of construction on the Northwestern Bus Improvements project. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Government backs critical health research
    Research into some of New Zealanders’ biggest health concerns including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease is getting crucial support in the latest round of health research funding, Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The funding, awarded through the Health Research Council of New Zealand, covers 31 General Project grants ($36.64 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • New Bay of Islands hospital facilities to bring services closer to home
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little have joined a ceremony to bless the site and workers for Phase Two of the redevelopment of the Bay of Islands Hospital in Kawakawa today. The new building will house outpatients and primary care facilities, as well as expanded renal care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Cabinet accepts Turkish authorities’ request for the managed return of three NZ citizens
    Cabinet has agreed to the managed return of a New Zealand citizen and her two young children from Turkey, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The three have been in immigration detention in Turkey since crossing the border from Syria earlier this year. Turkey has requested that New Zealand repatriate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt delivers more classrooms so children can focus on learning
    Extra Government investment in classrooms and school building projects will enable students and teachers to focus on education rather than overcrowding as school rolls grow across the country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis say. The pair visited Ruakākā School in Whangārei today to announce $100 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New station a platform for AirportLink to take off
    Every Aucklander with access to the rail network will now have a quick and convenient trip to the airport, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said during the official opening of the new Puhinui Interchange today. The new interchange links the rail platform with a new bus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 10 days sick leave for employees delivered
    Legislation doubling employees’ minimum sick leave entitlement to 10 days comes into effect today, bringing benefits to both businesses and employees, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Our Government is delivering on a key manifesto commitment to help Kiwis and workplaces stay healthy,” Michael Wood said. “COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on Election Win
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern tonight congratulated Prime Minister-elect Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on her victory in the Samoa’s general election. “New Zealand has a special relationship with Samoa, anchored in the Treaty of Friendship. We look forward to working with Samoa’s new government in the spirit of partnership that characterises this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel with Australia suspended
    Quarantine Free Travel from all Australian states and territories to New Zealand is being suspended as the Covid situation there worsens, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. From 11.59pm today Australians will no longer be able to enter New Zealand quarantine-free. This will be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Growing conservation efforts in Gisborne
    A big injection of Jobs for Nature funding will create much-needed jobs and financial security for families in TeTairāwhiti, and has exciting prospects for conservation in the region, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The projects target local communities most affected by the economic consequences of COVID 19 and are designed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Flood recovery given further assistance
    The Government is contributing a further $1 million to help the flood battered Buller community, Acting Emergency Management Minister Kris Faafoi announced today. “Buller is a small community which has found itself suddenly facing significant and ongoing welfare costs. While many emergency welfare costs are reimbursed by Government, this money ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Funding for five projects to reduce food waste
    The Government is funding five projects to help address the growing problem of food waste, Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “New Zealand households throw away nearly 300,000 tonnes of food every year, half of which could still be eaten. By supporting these initiatives, we’re taking steps to reduce this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Temporary Accommodation Service activated for West Coast flooding event
    The Temporary Accommodation Service (TAS) has been activated today - meaning residents on the West Coast of the South Island and in the Marlborough region hit by flooding over the weekend can now access help finding temporary accommodation, announced Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Poto Williams in Westport today. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Pause to Quarantine Free Travel from South Australia to New Zealand
    Quarantine Free Travel from South Australia to New Zealand will be paused from 11.59am (NZT) tonight, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. However, people currently in the state who ordinarily live in New Zealand will be able to return on “managed return” flights starting with the next available flight, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity by Chinese state-sponsored actors
    New Zealand has established links between Chinese state-sponsored actors known as Advanced Persistent Threat 40 (APT40) and malicious cyber activity in New Zealand. “The GCSB has worked through a robust technical attribution process in relation to this activity. New Zealand is today joining other countries in strongly condemning this malicious ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Remarks to Diplomatic Corps
    It is a pleasure to be with you all this evening. Some of you may have been surprised when you received an invitation from the Minister of Disarmament and Arms Control, and I would forgive you if you were. New Zealand is unique in having established a Ministerial portfolio ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Early Pfizer shipment boosts vaccine schedule
    The largest shipment of the Pfizer vaccine to date has arrived into New Zealand two days ahead of schedule, and doses are already being delivered to vaccination centres around the country, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins says. “The shipment of more than 370,000 doses reached New Zealand yesterday, following a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Backing for Bay of Islands predator free effort
    The Government is throwing its support behind an ambitious project to restore native biodiversity and build long-term conservation careers, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. Predator Free Bay of Islands aims to eradicate predators from the three main peninsulas in the region, and significantly reduce their impact throughout the wider 80,000-plus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government commits $600,000 to flood recovery
    The Government is contributing $600,000 to help residents affected by the weekend’s violent weather with recovery efforts. Acting Minister for Emergency Management Kris Faafoi and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor have been in the Buller district this afternoon to assess flood damage and support the local response effort. They have announced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government assisting local responses to heavy rainfall and high wind
    Acting Minister of Emergency Management Kris Faafoi says Central Government is monitoring the severe weather across the country, and is ready to provide further support to those affected if necessary. “My thoughts are with everyone who has been affected by this latest event, particularly communities on the West Coast and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • PM Ardern chairs APEC Leaders’ meeting on COVID-19
    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has chaired a meeting of Leaders representing the 21 APEC economies overnight. “For the first time in APEC’s history Leaders have come together for an extraordinary meeting focused exclusively on COVID-19, and how our region can navigate out of the worst health and economic ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health Minister welcomes progress on nurses’ pay
    The New Zealand Nurses Organisation’s decision to take the Government’s improved pay offer to members and to lift strike notices is a positive move towards settling district health board nurses’ pay claims, Health Minister Andrew Little said. “It’s encouraging that the discussions between NZNO and DHBs over the nurses’ employment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Boost for Pacific regional business
    Pacific businesses will get a much-needed financial boost as they recover from the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic thanks to the new Pacific Aotearoa Regional Enterprise Fund, said Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio.  The new $2 million fund will co-invest in Pacific business projects and initiatives to create ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • PM Ardern call with President Biden
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern spoke with US President Biden this morning, ahead of the APEC Informal Leaders’ Retreat on COVID-19. “President Biden and I discussed the forthcoming APEC leaders meeting and the critical importance of working together as a region to navigate out of the COVID-19 pandemic”, Jacinda Ardern said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Renewed partnership creates jobs for New Zealand youth
    The Government has signed a new memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, strengthening the partnership to get more young people into work.  The Mayors Taskforce for Jobs (MTFJ) is a nationwide network of all Mayors in New Zealand, who are committed to making sure all young ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • South Island areas prioritised in tourism fund
    Five South Island areas are prioritised in the latest round of decisions from a tourism fund that is supporting infrastructure projects from Cape Reinga to Stewart Island and the Chathams. Tourism Minister Stuart Nash has announced details of 57 nationwide projects to receive support from the Tourism Infrastructure Fund (TIF). ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New code sets clear expectations for learner safety and wellbeing in tertiary education
    A new code of practice for the pastoral care of domestic tertiary and international students will be in place from January next year, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today The code, which makes clear that creating an environment that supports learning and wellbeing is a shared responsibility between tertiary providers, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First TAB New Zealand Board appointments announced
    The members of the first TAB NZ Board come with experience in racing and sport administration, business and governance, the betting industry, broadcasting and gambling harm minimisation. “This Board will progress from the excellent work done by the interim board, put in place in August 2020,” Grant Robertson said. “The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Northland Maori Pathways initiative introduced
    The Government has today launched Māori Pathways at Northland Region Corrections Facility, a ground-breaking series of initiatives designed in partnership with Māori to reduce re-offending and improve outcomes for whānau. A key part of the Hōkai Rangi strategy, Māori Pathways looks to achieve long-term change and involves a number of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Extended Essential Skills visas being rolled out
    Two year Essential Skills visa to provide certainty to at least 18,000 visa holders Streamlined application process to benefit at least 57,000 visa holders The Government is increasing the duration of some Essential Skills visas and streamlining the application process to provide more certainty to employers and visa holders while ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Pause to Quarantine Free Travel from Victoria to New Zealand
    Quarantine Free Travel from Victoria to New Zealand will be paused from 1.59am (NZT) Friday, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins has announced. The decision follows updated public health advice from New Zealand officials and a growing number of cases and locations of interest. The pause will run for at least ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Hydrogen arrangement signed with Singapore
    The signing of an Arrangement of Cooperation on low-carbon hydrogen with Singapore heralds the start of greater collaboration between it and New Zealand as both countries transition towards low carbon economies, says Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods. The cooperation arrangement between New Zealand’s Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Hydrogen agreement signed with Singapore
    The signing of a Memorandum of Cooperation on low-carbon hydrogen with Singapore signals the start of greater collaboration between the two countries as they transition towards low carbon economies, says Energy and Resources Minister Dr Megan Woods. The cooperation agreement between New Zealand’s Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to LGNZ Conference
    Kia ora koutou katoa and thank-you for the invitation to speak to you all today. I would like to acknowledge Local Government New Zealand President Stuart Crosby, and Chief Executive, Susan Freeman-Greene, Te Maruata Chair, Bonita Bigham, and our host, Mayor John Leggett. I also acknowledge all the elected members ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government to provide support for water reforms, jobs and growth
    The Government today announced a $2.5 billion package to support local government transition through the reforms to New Zealand’s drinking water, wastewater and stormwater services. The package will also stimulate local economies while creating jobs and unlocking infrastructure for housing. “New Zealand’s water systems are facing a significant crisis and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago