I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
It has been a problem ever since central banks in America, Japan and Europe began Quantitative Easing (QE) or money printing over a decade ago during the Global Financial Crisis: the new money didn't circulate and generate much new investment or spending or economic growth. It was just parked in bank accounts or piles of actual cash, or other unproductive stores of value such as gold, art, property and yachts.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
The banks have been much more active in the housing market, including $5.2b in July to existing home owners and rental property investors, up 24 percent from June and back above its pre-lockdown levels in March.
That has helped perk up housing activity and lifted house values in areas with housing shortages and that are less reliant on overseas tourists, students and investors. Values in places such as Rotorua, Wellington, Whanganui and Palmerston North are up by double digit amounts from a year ago
The Reserve Bank is beginning to agitate with the banks about the lack of lending to businesses and may yet try to force them to direct lending to businesses.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
Better manufacturing
Extraction and processing of our resources
Better schooling up to and including doctorate level
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
Communities earmarked for greater density were given $10,000 each to develop their plans. That done, they got further funding for the next stage – but only if they could prove they had reached out to every part of the community and hadn’t let the usual suspects dominate.
Officials supported these “citizen planners” with neighbourhood design toolkits and software that mapped demographics, land use and transport flows. The community plans were then tested at “alternatives fairs”, sent to residents for approval, reviewed by officials, and subjected to neighbourhood hearings. Displaying remarkable engagement, some 20,000-30,000 residents took part in a city of 560,000.
After years of conflict, the process brought together politicians, neighbourhood leaders, and even local groups that had formerly been at loggerheads. Best of all, it delivered densification: added together, the neighbourhood plans provided all the housing the council had sought.
Along the way, a pro-development, anti-Nimby constituency was born. Seattle today remains – for various reasons – one of the few American cities to be densifying effectively. Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.” All this might seem counterintuitive, given Seattle’s previous animus towards densification. Two factors made the difference: control and environment.
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.”
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
Amnesty International executive director Meg de Ronde said she was appalled by the report's findings.
"What this report paints is the possibility of a tinderbox situation," she said. "If force is not being used as a last resort, and the culture is being called punitive, this could have real flow-on effects for interactions between prison guards and people who are locked up."
Alan Whitley, president of CANZ, the union representing corrections officers, said the use of force was increasing because assaults on corrections officers were increasing.
As a result of an assault there is an action and the action is generally trying to shut the prisoner down. It can be done in a number of ways. It can be hands on, trying to get them to calm down, bringing them down to the floor. It could also be deploying and using pepper spray."
The review also says the medical needs of prisoners are not being met because of poor leadership and health staffing levels being at about half what is needed.
"ARWCF has a large demand for health services but doesn't seem to have the health staff to match or custodial staff to get prisoners to and from health appointments," the review says.
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
Staff at the prison's health unit complained to the reviewer that rather than respond to requests for medical assistance, guards were telling inmates to fill out complaint forms.
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
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However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
Throw them in jail? How long?
Fine them? How much?
Both?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
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I think the ban is a total and unnecessary overreaction
These yachts are their homes and insurers don't cover battered yachts
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
Close the border, ditch the Auckland CBD hotels and use the recently refurbished Mangere refugee resettlement centre – it's not like that is being used
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
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Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
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"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
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RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
The causes of the French Revolution are complex and are still debated among historians. The American Revolution helped set the stage for the events of the French Revolution, having shown France that a rebellion based on Enlightenment principles, including natural rights and equality for all citizens, against an authoritarian regime could succeed.
"Thousands of men and even many women gained firsthand experience in the political arena: they talked, read, and listened in new ways; they voted; they joined new organisations; and they marched for their political goals. Revolution became a tradition, and republicanism an enduring option."
"Some historians argue that the French people underwent a fundamental transformation in self-identity, evidenced by the elimination of privileges and their replacement by rights as well as the growing decline in social deference that highlighted the principle of equality throughout the Revolution. The Revolution represented the most significant and dramatic challenge to political absolutism up to that point in history and spread democratic ideals throughout Europe and ultimately the world. Throughout the 19th century, the revolution was heavily analysed by economists and political scientists, who saw the class nature of the revolution as a fundamental aspect in understanding human social evolution itself. This, combined with the egalitarian values introduced by the revolution, gave rise to a classless and co-operative model for society called "socialism" which profoundly influenced future revolutions in France and around the world."
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
"Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'".
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
"My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first."
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
…
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
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How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
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What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
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In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Tara Ward talks to presenter Naomi Toilalo about the new TV show that turns food waste into a three course feast. Naomi Toilalo is standing in the warehouse at Good Neighbour Tauranga, helping unpack the two-and-a-half tonnes of rejected food that will arrive at the community support hub that day. ...
Scout is our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Scout’s human, Avril, for her support. Dog name: Scout (named after the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird – she inherited the independent spirit ...
Megan Alatini takes us through her life in TV, including ‘terrible’ daytime TV, the class of Carol Hirschfeld and her most embarrassing TrueBliss moment. When she responded to a vague newspaper ad asking “do you have what it takes to be a popstar?” 25 years ago, Megan Alatini never guessed ...
A new exhibition in Wellington showcases the faces behind your local goods and services. Back in 1977, when I was a fine arts student at the University of Canterbury, I took a series of photographs of Christchurch shopkeepers. The photos were for a calendar – a project for my end ...
Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
My cousin Dylan and I spotted these big eels under the bridge that summer. We watched them lounging under the dark weed, facing into the flow of water, their mouths frozen open. Dylan and I couldn’t stop thinking about those eels. The night we went down to the creek, we ...
Newsroom, home of satire. My long-running weekly satirical series The Secret Diary has moved to Newsroom and will appear every Saturday, with Victor Billot’s wildly popular satirical Odes continuing to appear every Sunday. Diaries, Odes – while serious political columnists toil at meaningful opinions and stroke their chins to an ...
Tara Ward unravels the many nuanced layers of a cartoon about talking dogs.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. It’s not often an episode of a children’s cartoon has adults sobbing into their sleeves, but that’s exactly what happened this week when ...
Working as a doctor in developing countries to help communities achieve better health outcomes is nothing short of a life goal for Jessica Tater. The University of Otago medical student has her sights firmly set on joining the international humanitarian organisation Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) when she qualifies ...
There’s an island in the far reaches of Auckland’s territory, sitting off the tip of the Coromandel Peninsula, 30 minutes by air from the city or four hours on the slow boat. Aotea Great Barrier is off-grid, it has a population of fewer than a thousand people … and most ...
Asia Pacific Report An Australian author and advocate, Jim Aubrey, today led a national symbolic one minute’s silence to mark the “blood debt” owed to Papuan allies during the Second World War indigenous resistance against the invading Japanese forces. “A promise to most people is a promise,” Aubrey said in ...
Asia Pacific Report The Freedom Flotilla is ready to sail to Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. All the required paperwork has been submitted to the port authority, and the cargo has been loaded and prepared for the humanitarian trip to the besieged enclave. However, organisers received word of an “administrative ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
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You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
NZ "First" still wanting to help the Fishing Industry screw our ever diminishing Marine species…
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/rural/425397/new-zealand-first-cautious-about-plan-to-install-hundreds-more-cameras-on-fishing-boats
Shane …Jones. Fark I hope he's kicked to touch. Cmon Willow Jean : ) !!
More reason's not to vote NZFirst – if you really needed any more that is.
I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
There are good options though, the government just aren't taking them because it would destroy capitalism.
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Interesting. so no matter how rotten your team have shown themselves to be you will still support them.
Of course he will. Wayne shows all the hallmarks of being an Authoritarian Follower.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
"Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?"
Not one they are brave enough to present to the voting public….and with that absence its credibility cannot be judged.
Or worse, the only plan is the continuation of the growth via migration model.
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The government could even do it for mortgages.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
https://ojs.aut.ac.nz/te-kaharoa/index.php/tekaharoa/article/view/96/90
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/want-to-build-high-rise-homes-for-74000-more-people-in-wellington-build-consensus-first/ar-BB18Kq2A
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
[link added – weka]
Thanks Weka. Must've had a senior moment. 😳
DF Quote from Back to the Future – "You are my density". With you at the helm we might get the destiny that is possible if we get OAIG.
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
@tc.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
Did you see the moaning sheila they found yesterday going on about getting promotional materials from the hotel she was quarantined in.
Fuck you would think she had been forced to sleep in the broom closet with a bucket to piss in .
Or worse, a bucket to sleep in!
John Clarke come back, you are missed terribly.
Both of 'em.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
so nothing really has changed there then? NZ Prisons in NZ, no change between the red or blue team, they all don’t care.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362662
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
@ Redlogix.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
The two faces of Duncan Garner
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/duncan-garner-we-ve-told-yachties-stranded-in-the-pacific-they-re-not-welcome-how-bloody-miserable-and-mean-spirited-can-we-be.html
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/duncan-garner-new-zealand-must-temporarily-close-its-borders-to-new-arrivals-from-today.html
Earlier.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/06/duncan-garner-it-s-time-to-completely-shut-new-zealand-s-border-returning-kiwis-included.html
Earlier still he was a chamipoon of a bubble with Oz. Oz tourists have money.
French Polynesia took that line – and tried to safely take in tourists. Not successfully – and now there is community spread.
Apologies
But what do you mean by this?
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Read the link. Garner claims those on board cannot arrive still infectious because it takes three weeks to travel here.
Brain cells needed for that. Garner seems to have forsaken the use of them.
The two faces of David Seymour
1. There cannot be an election unless we are at level 1.
2. We should let coronavirus spread.
There is no chance of being at Level 1 if there is spread.
We had this beat up a couple of weeks ago
French Polynesia has had about 13 hurricanes in the last 60 years
They have only hit the top two of the 5 island groups making up the territory.
The hurricanes happen when there is a certain variant of the La Nina current – so pretty predictable.
Somebody on here who had sailed said a 21 day open water passage is likely more dangerous than staying put.
Duncan should check a few facts.
Then there are the idiots from here who sailed up to Fiji and who I now assume want to come back.
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
https://niwa.co.nz/climate/information-and-resources/elnino
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
Just as the US oligarchy is not a Democracy.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
Christianity, even at its most grassroots form, never got hospitality as well as Islam did and still does.
@Redlogix.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Some might regard such redistribution as "tearing everything down"; theft even(!) – I see it as a way of building societal resilience and sustainability. https://thestandard.org.nz/nurses-ask-us-to-vote-for-our-health/#comment-1317498
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Still, can't say it hasn't been fun.
Hindsight wisdom, but over-simplified.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
Good morning.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
@Wayne.
I agree.
However I though National's policy, and many in Parliamentary Labours, was to "leave it to the market". Making Government future planning obsolete.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
Policies building for a sustainable future seem to have been left to the Greens.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
@ KJT and RedLogix, if you wish, maybe you could continue your conversation in OM, yes?
Unfortunately, because of the dysfunctional reply functionality on the site I cannot move the thread from Mike’s Post to OM.
There is a NZ blogsite that pops up regularly in the Feeds section that you may have missed 😉
is the move to OM not working? Or there are too many to move because they're not threaded?
Because they’re not threaded. I suppose this doesn’t stop moving them to OM and both KJT and RedLogix seem ok with that 🙂
Done
Yes if possible it should be moved, it's clearly drifted OT.
Done
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
isn't that what fit young nephews and nieces are for, lead acid batteries up three flights of stairs.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
(This from Variety – sounds like something to do with the arts. Why would they have it in for the BBC?)
The BBC Has a New Boss. Will He Enforce the Radical Change it Needs to Survive?
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/tim-davie-bbc-director-general-first-week-1234758553/
(This from the Financial Times.)
Tim Davie, the new no-nonsense BBC boss
https://www.ft.com/content/a27e9f84-009d-46e2-9495-a5c4973591fa
Oh Great, how encouraging. I gather that TVNZ's current CEO is a man from the bloody marketing industry – if you can call it that.
I would have preferred Andrew Davies – that great guy who wrote "A Very Peculiar Practice", and many other worthwhile TV productions.
We have the wrong idiots in charge of things!
edit
How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Do you often look for a connection between apparently unrelated things?
I don't see "paying down public debt" anywhere in the stuff article.
Fair point
At least now we can kind of guess the priorities.
Well, yeah, given that a new public holiday isn't the only policy Labour's announced so far.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Shit, I missed it. What was it? Lemme guess, it was tax cuts or a bonfire of regulations, right?
Schools! So many schools! Beautiful schools! And infrastructure thingummies! In ten to thirty years!
If they are a bit slow on the school thingies, National could well have us Predator-Free and with Beautiful schools by 2050..
I bet our schoolkids can hardly wait! The kiwi birds will probably be extinct by 2050, so it won't matter to them.
But as John Key explained when one of his deadlines slipped by, the target was just 'aspirational' anyway.
But fail on building enough houses (when the previous government did fuckall) and you never hear the end of it.
" in the first 10 years of a three-decade school growth plan – a plan that is yet to be developed." So says the article McFlock directs us to.
When does a wish or an idea become a plan?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
"the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot"
???
I was thinking the more why are we talking about businesses having to pay for another public holiday while we are going to be into a recession.
If you are going to do it at least lose one of the others like Queens birthday.
It is just odd timing for this sort of policy.
Edit: Should add Kelvin Davis was just on Ryan Bridges show on the radio saying it is going to cost 230 odd million dollars a year….I mean wtf?
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
I never said there wasn't.
If you read my post I said lose one of the others if you are going to do it.
Believe me. I would love a public holiday in the massive gap we don't have one.
But just slapping in a new one during a recession is silly to me.
Edit: And did you even read my post. Kelvin Davis has said it would cost non tourist business up to 230 million dollars a year
to stimulate the local economy, a recession is exactly the right time to do it.
Maybe if you own a motel or a cafe, but everyone else, not so much
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
I dont suppose you could come out and say that you want to impose austerity to pay off the covid debt would you?
Their tax and economic policy would be handy.
Given they promised it before the election
Prime Minister Ardern wanks to make Matariki a public holiday.
I say that's an excellent idea.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/winston-peters-again-veers-coalition-partners-says-now-isnt-time-matariki-public-holiday
(the Greens like it as well).
It's a sure-fire way to keep all those Maori seats in Labour's hands in 2020 and beyond.
That's either one helluva typo or an awesome freudian slip.
The proposal itself is excellent and way overdue, tho.
Sorry for the spelling mistake. Almost had a pubic holiday.
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Ha!
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Give up Christmas lamb? Sacrilege.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
Perhaps long weekends should be the standard
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-4-day-work-week-boosts-productivity-2019-11
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425427/keep-new-zealand-beautiful-misses-out-on-government-funding
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Isn’t Waitangi Day a uniquely New Zealand holiday? And also the various provincial anniversaries?
[I have deleted your surname from your user handle in case this was a mistake, as you previously had not included it – Incognito]
And Queen's Birthday. Nobody else celebrates that the same day we do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Official_Birthday
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
edit
What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Here are the intentions for hospital care during L2
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/health-and-disability-services-alert-level-2
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
@Ad. 20. Of course the Greens like it. It has been a Green policy forever.