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Open mike 08/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 8th, 2022 - 203 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

203 comments on “Open mike 08/06/2022 ”

    • Muttonbird 1.1
      8 June 2022 at 7:51 am

      At least the house isn't empty.

      yes

      Reply
      • mpledger 1.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 10:29 am

        But imagine paying to move into a brand new house and then having renters in it with all the wear and tear. I hope the building firm gets taken to the cleaners in court.

        Reply
      • Poission 1.1.2
        8 June 2022 at 10:36 am

        There is no shortage of either rental accommodation in canterbury,or housing stock,or sections in developed areas.

        Since Christchurch CC introduced rules for Airbb surprisingly the rental stock on offer rose 20% and has not decreased since.

        Reply
        • Muttonbird 1.1.2.1
          8 June 2022 at 11:06 am

          What rules did the Christchurch CC introduce?

          Reply
          • Poission 1.1.2.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 11:14 am

            Limitations on short term stays.Requirement for resource consent,and code of compliance,and change on rating structure for short term stays (commercial rate)

            Reply
            • Muttonbird 1.1.2.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 8:07 pm

              Well done to the Christchurch CC. This regulation should be rolled out nationwide.

              Not saying rich pricks can’t continue to destroy local communities by Airbnb’ing their many spare homes, but at least they can pay the going rate!

              Reply
              • Poission …
                8 June 2022 at 8:27 pm

                Airbnb was being marketed to investors as an option on new builds in the 4 avenues ( the brightline for new builds is 5 years)

                A more intensive education program on short term rentals in chch to come,b4 compliance with $$$$ penalties.

                Reply
    • Jimmy 1.2
      8 June 2022 at 11:21 am

      Sounds like the developer just wanted to increase the price and screw the purchaser as they knew they would have no trouble selling to some one else.

      Reply
      • Patricia Bremner 1.2.1
        8 June 2022 at 11:26 am

        In Australia Developers are allowed to alter the plans up to 20% to avoid this. They are still falling over for the same reasons as here.

        Reply
      • dv 1.2.2
        8 June 2022 at 11:32 am

        Some points from the article

        He (Associate Judge Dale Lester) noted construction did not start until five months after Titterton signed her contract.

        Her house was built by the developer “in parallel” with two neighbouring properties which both obtained code compliance in September 2021, he said.

        That lots 20 and 21 were finished well before the sunset clause shows there was no reason, from a purely construction point of view, that lot 19 (Titterton’s property) could not have been finished on time,” Lester said.

        He said an email sent by Dynasty’s solicitor to Titterton’s lawyer in April 2021, which claimed the delays were due to a nationwide shortage of timber, price increases, appliance supply shortages, a need to adjust fill level on site and “issues with funding” was so “inaccurate as it might be submitted that it was intended to mislead”.

        It was sent when the walls and roof on the house were completed and work on the brick cladding had started.

        The need to adjust the fill level was puzzling since the concrete pad was already down, he said. Dynasty actually continued work until July 30, 2021, with Gib lining, stopping and painting.

        Reply
  2. Chris T 2
    8 June 2022 at 7:59 am

    Pretty ugly

    Call me Mr thickest person called Chris in NZ, but don't actually get how it would work. Obviously micro plastics are light, but don't get how light enough to get into the atmosphere.

    Worrying though. Would prefer not killing penguins over plastic Coke bottles etc.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/128885100/antarctica-pristine-no-more-as-microplastics-discovered-in-snow-at-bottom-of-the-world

    "Antarctica pristine no more as microplastics discovered in snow at bottom of the world

    The driven snow of the world’s last untouched continent might not be so pure after all.

    A world-first study by University of Canterbury researchers – published in science journal The Cryosphere on Wednesday – has confirmed the discovery of microplastics in freshly fallen Antarctic snow………"

    Reply
    • Ad 2.2
      8 June 2022 at 8:04 am

      Natural skincare range.

      Reply
    • Chris T 2.3
      8 June 2022 at 8:14 am

      I am no scientist, but the one thing I do know is micro plastics basically screw the wild life.

      It is sad, but also now probably sadly too hard to stop.

      Best we can probably do is try to slow down the damage.

      Edit: And that includes fish, birds, even people in some cases

      Reply
      • weka 2.3.1
        8 June 2022 at 8:47 am

        How is it too hard to stop?

        Reply
        • KJT 2.3.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 8:59 am

          There is no way to remove microplastics already in the environment.

          And, it seems no will to remove future pollution.

          See how ineffective our campaigns against plastic bottles have been,for one.

          The world’s population consumes 1 million plastic bottles every minute – Plastic Soup Foundation

          Reply
          • Belladonna 2.3.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 9:11 am

            Certainly in NZ, one of the biggest use of plastic bottles would be for milk. And there is zero effective interest in mandating a return to glass bottles (which were entirely re-usable and recyclable). There are a few niche producers doing this – but, if we want to make a difference, it has to either be mandated or plastic use heavily cost-weighted (making glass a cheaper option).

            I'm really not very interested in plastic recycling options in this instance. Much better to use glass, instead.

            Reply
            • Blade 2.3.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 9:40 am

              I agree about glass. It's hard to beat. We went through a phase when milk was put into cardboard cartons which were found to be releasing small amounts of dioxin into the milk.

              With plastic, everyone is rushing around buying plastic that is BPA free. Yet like one scientist said, BPA is one of only many POSSIBLE chemicals that can leach from plastic.

              So micro particles may not be the only problem.

              Reply
            • KJT 2.3.1.1.1.2
              8 June 2022 at 10:01 am

              Of interest was the idea of using double walled stainless steel for products such as milk. Doesn't have the problems of breakages etc of glass.

              Can't find the references at present but will try and dig them out.

              Myself, I use them for water bottles and also use stainless steel drinking straws.

              Reply
          • weka 2.3.1.1.2
            8 June 2022 at 9:11 am

            quick google tells me technically we can remove micro plastics from water, so are you meaning that we can't remove them from say the ocean because its too big?

            Ultimately this is a population issue as well as a shitting in our own nest one. We can shift all clothing to natural fibres tomorrow and implement all the reuse clothing tech and culture at its best, and perpetual growth will still lead to more pollution (natural micro fibres are still pollutants). This is a philosophical problem as well as a technical one.

            Reply
            • KJT 2.3.1.1.2.1
              8 June 2022 at 9:54 am

              Too big. Pretty much.

              Plastics residues are everywhere. So pervasive that removing existing microplastics from the environment is an impossible task. They are in our bodies, in water and soil, basically, everywhere! No sample was free of microplastics when water sampling NZ rivers.

              As many take hundred of years to degrade How long does it take for plastic to biodegrade? (savemoneycutcarbon.com) the problem is going to be around for a while, even if we stopped all slow biodegrading plastic use now.

              While glass bottles and other substitutes cut plastics in the environment, they can have their own resource use issues. Energy used to collect and clean milk bottles, for example.

              Plastic water bottles is an obviously superfluous use of plastics. In NZ, where tap water can be high quality, dispensed in a glass, that can be used many times, we shouldn't have to sell water in bottles, at all!

              Reply
              • weka …
                8 June 2022 at 10:10 am

                every time we harvest water, pee, drink, cook, wash clothes, make stuff, we can capture micro plastics. The water cycle is a cycle.

                Reply
                • KJT …
                  8 June 2022 at 10:19 am

                  Maybe in a few hundred years, we could make a dent?

                  Reply
                • KJT …
                  8 June 2022 at 10:42 am

                  Meanwhile.

                  Microplastics in farm soils: A growing concern – EHN

                  ""This is a kind of irreversible contamination," said Nizzetto. "There's no way to remediate this kind of contamination at the scale of agricultural soils."”

                  Reply
                  • weka …
                    8 June 2022 at 10:52 am

                    Meanwhile,

                    "Imagine a jar full of grain with a kind of lump of mushroom coming out of the top," says the lead biotech engineer for bio-manufacturing firm Biohm.

                    "It didn't look particularly exciting or fascinating. But as soon as it was cracked open, it was very, very cool."

                    The fungus had eaten its way through the plastic sponge intended to seal it in, breaking it down and assimilating it like any other food.

                    The aim of the project was to evaluate a number of strains of fungus for use in bio-based insulation panels, but the hungry fungus has taken them in another direction.

                    Biohm is now working to develop the strain to make it an even more efficient digester that could potentially help get rid of plastic waste.

                    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57733178

                    If we look at the world in a reductionist way instead of a ecological systems way, we see only reductionist solutions.

                    We need to transition off disposable plastics asap. Some things require plastics, so reserve them for essential items and services, but put in place systems of protection, retention and recycling.

                    In addition to that, look at the water cycle, the soil ecosystems, the places we have been polluting and that we need resources from and put humans back in the loops. When we do this, we see both the problems we are causing systemically and the solutions.

                    Can we clean up all microplastics? Probably not? We can stop polluting more, and we can change how we relate with the rest of nature so that we have systems that clean up pollution as much as possible.

                    All sustainability comes from this kind of circular and systemic thinking. If a solution doesn't do that, it's not about sustainability, it's about mitigation. Centering mitigation is what BAU does – how much pollution can we get away with?

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      8 June 2022 at 10:54 am

                      without systems thinking (and deep ecology) humans will take that research to mean we can keep polluting because the fungi will clean it up.

                      Same with climate, we can keep emitting GHGs because we will invent CCS or we can plant more trees.

                      It's the thinking processes that in error.

                    • KJT …
                      8 June 2022 at 10:56 am

                      Deserves an article. I think?

                      Circular resource use and sustainability.
                      And how it relates to a circular economy.

                      Example. Looking at EV’ s as a solution when they are only a part of a solution?
                      Or. Increases in more sustainable energy being lost within added energy use.

                      No promises though.

                      Too much covid at work.

                    • Blade …
                      8 June 2022 at 11:14 am

                      Decades ago I experimented with magnetics. Believe it or not, magnetism in all it's aspects is still a mystery to science.

                      Here is a type of magnetism that could be used on micro plastics.

                      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210825-how-to-fight-microplastic-pollution-with-magnets

                    • weka …
                      8 June 2022 at 11:20 am

                      yes posts would be good. I'm not sure if I can get to it am either. It's quite a bit of work.

              • Belladonna …
                8 June 2022 at 10:59 am

                While glass bottles and other substitutes cut plastics in the environment, they can have their own resource use issues. Energy used to collect and clean milk bottles, for example.

                This is true of *any* reusable packaging solution.

                If the economic answer is single use packaging, then we're not measuring correctly.

                Reply
                • KJT …
                  8 June 2022 at 11:02 am

                  Or. Assess if the packaging is really required?

                  Reply
                  • Belladonna …
                    8 June 2022 at 12:47 pm

                    Pretty hard to dispense milk with no packaging…..

                    Reply
                  • Belladonna …
                    8 June 2022 at 4:18 pm

                    Assume this is a tongue in cheek response.

                    Of course you know that the majority of people don't live on a farm or small-holding – with a milch cow – or within reasonable distance of one.

                    And most people would like to avoid serious health side effects from poorly stored/unsterilized milk 'packaging'

                    Reply
      • Muttonbird 2.3.2
        8 June 2022 at 8:12 pm

        Even people in some cases

        Ah, that would explain a lot.

        Reply
    • joe90 2.4
      8 June 2022 at 12:07 pm

      Fascinating thread on ocean plastics.

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1520107539785871362.html

      Reply
  3. Jimmy 3
    8 June 2022 at 8:32 am

    Has there ever been a poll done on any of the previous speakers?

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/06/07/poll-is-trevor-mallard-doing-a-good-job-as-speaker/

    Reply
    • Robert Guyton 3.1
      8 June 2022 at 8:42 am

      I like Trevor Mallard. I reckon he's been a very good Speaker.

      Does anyone recall Trevor's bike-me challenge from Whale oil? Trevor trounced Cameron what’s-his-name, as I recall.

      Reply
      • Jimmy 3.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 9:21 am

        "I like Trevor Mallard. I reckon he's been a very good Speaker." – seems like you are in the minority there.

        Reply
        • Incognito 3.1.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 9:36 am

          If so, then I’m sure Robert will bow to the pressure of the majority, realise the errors of his way and repent, and adopt your views on Mallard. Because, if I’m not wrong, Robert would like nothing less than think like you, Jimmy.

          Reply
          • Jimmy 3.1.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 9:44 am

            "Digging further into the poll numbers and barely over a quarter of Labour's own supporters back Mallard." from the 1News Kantar Public Poll.

            What is the TS poll?

            Reply
            • Incognito 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 11:21 am

              What are the numbers for the supporters of other parties? How many approved and how many didn’t know? That is more relevant in this thread. Where are your numbers, why aren’t you digging further? For example, 17% of all people polled approve, 48% disapprove, and the rest (i.e. 35%, by my calculation) don’t know (or don’t care).

              I can feel Robert shaking in his boots and wavering in his liking of Mallard!

              Reply
              • Jimmy …
                8 June 2022 at 11:34 am

                Was the TS poll you mentioned earlier "The Standard"" poll?

                Yes would be interesting to know the sample size etc. and where / how the poll was conducted. But concerning result none the less if only 17% actually approve.

                I have never seen a previous poll done on a speaker….has there ever been one? If not, why have they even done a poll? Has Mallard pissed someone off at the polling company? Or has someone paid to have the poll done and if so whom? Now that could be interesting.

                Reply
                • Incognito …
                  8 June 2022 at 4:33 pm

                  So, you have nothing else, nothing of any substance, and just jumping on the bandwagon with the rest of the lynch mob.

                  Of course, somebody paid for the poll!!

                  Of course, Mallard has pissed off somebody!! It’s in the hit piece you linked to, FFS!!

                  What’s concerning is that is yet another attack on the Office of the Speaker and you just lap it up, unquestionably and uncritically, as a lazy thinker would.

                  Reply
        • KJT 3.1.1.2
          8 June 2022 at 10:05 am

          Watched Mallard rather a bit.

          The right wings objection, mainly seems to be that he has no patience for their game playing bullshit.

          Unlike the speaker when National was in. Who seemed mostly way out of his depth.

          Reply
        • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 3.1.1.3
          8 June 2022 at 10:40 am

          seems like you are in the minority there.

          Not so, from my conversations with many people – they're largely indifferent.

          But, by way of comparison, Mallard is light years better than Carter!

          Reply
        • ianmac 3.1.1.4
          8 June 2022 at 4:11 pm

          I like and admire Trevor. He has tried to get the Opposition to play by the rules but which they are defiantly obstructive. The rules are the Parliament's rules so play fair.

          Carter was often nastily obstructive and protective of Key especially. Remember when he chucked 5 women MPs out in a row for defending those who were defending those who had be abused?

          Wonder how many of those polled knew who or what Trevor was.

          Reply
      • Grantoc 3.1.2
        8 June 2022 at 3:04 pm

        Well if you like your speakers to be strongly biased in favour of the government; intolerant; rigidly ideological; inflexible; capable of making stupid decisions (eg turning on sprinklers to piss off protesters); quick to take offence; incapable of building relationships with opposition parties; capable of having punch ups with other members of parliament; and just generally obnoxious, then Trev's your man – you can have him.

        He's probably the worst speaker in parliaments history.

        Reply
    • Incognito 3.2
      8 June 2022 at 8:53 am

      So, the Parliament grounds occupation is over but the siege on Parliament still continues. Is Mallard the Zelenskyy equivalent in NZ and if so, who’s the Putin equivalent?

      Reply
    • gypsy 3.3
      8 June 2022 at 9:10 am

      Slow news day?

      Reply
    • Peter 3.4
      8 June 2022 at 10:48 am

      A poll on whether the Speaker is doing a good job and publishing the results as if they were of some grave importance to the country and the world is a sign of how dreadful we've become. And how shgit our media people are.

      Most people wouldn't have the faintest idea about what the Speaker does and should do. They wouldn't know their arse from their elbow for a start.

      People who say vaccinations don't work, masks don't work and the Government was using radiation at the Wellington protest? Yeah, they don't like Mallard, he's slack at his job, get rid of him? For fucks sake. TVNZ promoted and carried this poll and reported it? The state broadcaster has reduced serious stuff to the level of the Warriors league team with their coaches coming and going.

      Reply
  4. Belladonna 4
    8 June 2022 at 8:57 am

    Interesting Spinoff article unpacking the actions of the conspiracy theorists around the very straightforward visit to the US by Ardern. Everything is apparently fuel for them, and interpreted through the singular lens of their prejudice.

    What is worrying, is the spread of the dis-information to a fairly politically unsophisticated audience (TikTok)

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/08-06-2022/conspiracy-theorists-are-losing-their-shit-over-a-clip-of-jacinda-ardern-in-new-york?fbclid=IwAR225OlQG2gRMuwDVtpaFLwbiRNRJf5Gx0sefxbcrwEUAJGeXrWWKgFKDn0

    Reply
    • Peter 4.1
      8 June 2022 at 1:28 pm

      Recently the work of the Disinformation Project organisation reviewed social media data daily during the Wellington protest. In the massive of volume of content they found 73% of the disinformation identified on Facebook was created by only 12 people.

      I wonder if the lunatic garbage in this latest instance about Ardern in New York is from the same people.

      Reply
  5. DB Brown 5
    8 June 2022 at 9:10 am

    According to Stuff the news is that they'll soon have some news, namely, an interview with Luxon.

    A more sycophantic bunch would be hard to find.

    They must be upset the last interviews showed him to be an elitist fuckwit.

    Reply
    • coge 5.1
      8 June 2022 at 9:26 am

      Yes. They should ask Luxon if he's still carrying his vaccine pass. That will get the conversation off to an interesting start.

      Reply
  6. Blade 6
    8 June 2022 at 9:51 am

    WTF:

    Quote:

    ''My question to this government and other governments around the world twisting words to limit food production to achieve an unsustainable goal while making a food shortage for the world; why are they not taking into account Article 2 (b) of the Paris Accord?”

    https://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/dairy-news/dairy-opinion/stop-restricting-food-production

    And from Scoop:

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1910/S00153/paris-agreement-on-climate-change-threats-to-food-security.htm

    Apparently Owen Jennings had a great article in the Herald for those who can crack the paywall.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/owen-jennings-why-farmers-are-still-angry-about-emissions-proposals/S6C36R5U64VXWBK4AD6A6V3TBU/

    Reply
    • weka 6.1
      8 June 2022 at 10:13 am

      would you mind explaining what you are trying to say with these links?

      Reply
      • KJT 6.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 10:22 am

        Blade is repeating the farmers that say.

        "Don't try to stop us polluting, or we will stop feeding you".

        Reply
        • Blade 6.1.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 10:43 am

          See below ( In vino) on how a reasoned response whether right or wrong, is posted instead of a soundbite.

          Reply
          • KJT 6.1.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 10:47 am

            What are you trying to say with those links?

            If it isn't

            "Don't try to stop us polluting, or we will stop feeding you"?

            Or. Don't you know?

            Reply
          • In Vino 6.1.1.1.2
            8 June 2022 at 7:30 pm

            Blade – use your brain next time and reply to my message, not KJT's.My message is now a good way below your mis-placed reply.

            Soundbite? What do you think you mean by that? I can assure you that I made no sound at all as I posted my eloquently expressed rebuttal to your obvious piece of trolling. You knew well that the reference you gave would annoy and provoke the average contributors to this site. You sowed knowingly, and I gave you something you could deservedly reap.

            Take your medicine, and stop complaining about superficial manners. You are a blatantly obvious right wing troll, and as such are unconvincing when you try to weasel in as a 'nice' contributor.

            KJT described you well at 6.1.1.

            (Just above the reply above, which you sent to the wrong person.)

            'Reasoned response'? You don't even say which response you are referring to.

            I suggest you find another way to misspend your idle time, Blade.

            Reply
            • Blade 6.1.1.1.2.1
              8 June 2022 at 8:19 pm

              You have misunderstood. I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to KJT who posts trite replies. I used your post as an example of a reasoned reply.

              ''See below ( In vino) on how a reasoned response whether right or wrong, is posted instead of a soundbite.''

              ps- loved the honest Leftwing flogging you gave me. It clears the sinuses and focuses the mind.

              Reply
              • In Vino …
                8 June 2022 at 9:13 pm

                Well, knowing how poorly 'reply' buttons work on websites, I assumed that (In Vino) meant you were specifying that you were replying to me.

                Mea Culpa.

                Amusing, in a way. No wonder I could not find an appropriate 'reasoned response.'

                Sorry, but I still agree with KJT. And at least you don't deny your guilt..

                Please don’t think that this disingenuous friendly behaviour will help you in future engagements.

                Reply
                • Blade …
                  8 June 2022 at 11:37 pm

                  "Please don’t think that this disingenuous friendly behaviour will help you in future engagements.''

                  I wouldn't expect anything less.

                  Reply
      • Blade 6.1.2
        8 June 2022 at 10:55 am

        Article 2 (b) of the Paris Accord?”

        As I understand it ( and to be fair I have lost interest in the topic) governments shouldn't curtail food production in response to climate change targets.

        However, I'm flying a little blind here because it's the Owen Jennings article I wanted to comment on.

        I posted those links because this topic, I believe, will be back in the media spotlight.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/128883139/farming-bodies-seek-power-equal-to-government-in-ag-emissions-system

        Of more importance is how National will approach this issue when they become the government next year. Lefties believing National will give farmers a free pass may be in for a surprise. National may be completely woke by that time if Luxon's performance is anything to go by.

        Reply
        • weka 6.1.2.1
          8 June 2022 at 11:22 am

          so the first premise is that governments are or will curtail food production in response to climate change. Why would they do that? Which governments?

          Reply
          • Blade 6.1.2.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 12:02 pm

            Don't reach. The government ( Labour)- National isn't in power yet- will curtail food production indirectly with their demands on farmers re climate change regulation affecting agriculture.

            It shows you how divorced this government is from our major export earner. Believe it or not, its not Robbo Hood’s printing press, or the Green Collective, that puts food on our tables…it's agriculture.

            But again, this is standard fare for a left leaning government. Most righties expected no different. The questions is what National will, or will not be doing around this issue.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/128890620/cost-of-greenhouse-gas-scheme-may-slash-farm-profits

            Reply
            • weka 6.1.2.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 12:10 pm

              unfortunately industrial ag is also responsible for a large amount of GHG emissions.

              I take it your argument here is that we shouldn't be doing climate mitigation. You'll get more shit if you are honest about that, but you will get more respect too. The whole back door climate denial is tedious af.

              Reply
              • weka …
                8 June 2022 at 12:13 pm

                you can correct me if I am wrong, I'm just extrapolating from what you have said but also that you haven't actually explained much.

                Reply
              • Blade …
                8 June 2022 at 2:42 pm

                ''I take it your argument here is that we shouldn't be doing climate mitigation.''

                No, not directly. The only good thing about the climate change scam is it's forcing even more changes and efficiencies in the agriculture sector. Changes that have been happening since SMPs were scrapped. The days of a new Jag and a week in the Islands was over. Some farmers went to the wall.

                We emit next to nothing in global terms. We even import coal. How nutty is that? All in the name of '' Let's be world leaders.'' More reality based countries burn coal and have no problem burning fossil fuels when needed.

                So, at the end of the day, I want all climate change legislation scrapped. However, I'm still for environmental controls on farmers who pollute rivers, and abuse stock.

                In fact farmers are now one of the biggest preservers of remaining natural bush. Always amazes me how little I see Maori and urban Greenies involved in such preservation work.

                Reply
                • KJT …
                  8 June 2022 at 2:55 pm

                  "Climate change scam".

                  Funny how the ignorant always eventually, out themselves.

                  "Always amazes me how little I see Maori and urban Greenies involved in such preservation work."

                  Don't get out much do you? About 200 out in our local wetland last week. Maori And some Asians, Indians, Poms and other assorted, Greenies. Even a couple of retired cockies.

                  Reply
                • weka …
                  8 June 2022 at 3:01 pm

                  In fact farmers are now one of the biggest preservers of remaining natural bush. Always amazes me how little I see Maori and urban Greenies involved in such preservation work.

                  This would have to be one of the stupider things I've seen recently. But good to see your prejudices laid out bare.

                  Reply
                  • Blade …
                    8 June 2022 at 4:12 pm

                    Cheap easy shots .I'm just stating my experiences. Mostly ordinary folk on the replantings I have been involved in. No Maori, only two Greenies ( real Greenies. Hand's that obviously had held a slasher; not a latte.). Look at the student army in Christchurch. See any Maori organisation helping out? Apart from Derek Fox who stayed a few days then was gone. However, to be fair I may have missed some Maori helpers.

                    I'm sorry, Weka. I can only go by my own experiences. Now I did have one indigenous experience. I offered Totara saplings to a replanting scheme. The pakeha coordinator said they couldn't accept my offer because my trees wouldn't have been native to the area. I bet he was following kaupapa set down by Maori…who were nowhere in sight.

                    I think it’s your prejudices that are being laid out bare. And I will meet all prejudices like yours head on.

                    Reply
                    • weka …
                      8 June 2022 at 4:20 pm

                      I'm just stating my experiences.

                      No, you're not. You're using your apparently quite limited personal experiences to make a political point about groups of people you don't like. It's very easy to find many planting projects that greenies and Māori are involved in.

                      Look at the student army in Christchurch. See any Maori organisation helping out?

                      So not personal experience, but out and out racist framing. It's not hard to find Māori orgs that are doing work in the community.

                      can only go by my own experiences. Now I did have one indigenous experience. I offered Totara saplings to a replanting scheme. The pakeha coordinator said they couldn't accept my offer because my trees wouldn't have been native to the area. I bet he was following kaupapa set down by Maori.

                      It's called eco-sourcing, it's based in ecological sciences, and it's common throughout NZ.

                      https://www.nzpcn.org.nz/conservation/restoration/eco-sourcing/

                      I think its your prejudices that are being laid out bare. And I will meet all prejudices like yours head on.

                      Really? How come you haven't named them then? All I'm seeing is you making a bunch of racist and anti-green assertions and one that is ignorant of a reforestation concept as well as being anti-Māori. None of that is anything to do with me.

                    • Blade …
                      9 June 2022 at 12:09 am

                      ''It's very easy to find many planting projects that greenies and Māori are involved in.''

                      Fare enough. List some. I admit I have only been involved in two schemes. But I've seen a whole heap more on TV – few Maori or Greenies I'm sorry to say.

                      ''It's called eco-sourcing, it's based in ecological sciences, and it's common throughout NZ.''

                      Never heard of it. We have what's called ''Local variety seed saving.'' I'm guessing it's a similar thing? I will say I already had some of my saplings growing quite well in the general planting area, but I was still turned down.

                      ''I think its your prejudices that are being laid out bare. And I will meet all prejudices like yours head on.''

                      ''Really? How come you haven't named them then? All I'm seeing is you making a bunch of racist and anti-green assertions. and one that is ignorant of a reforestation concept as well as being anti-Māori.

                      1- You have prejudices against farmers and people who don't share your views on quack science based climate change. You have made those sentiments quite clear to me.

                      2- You cannot argue race in a rational manner. Your arguments always boils down to your opposition being racist. So you have race bias.

                      3- You are prejudiced against the Right of politics. Unlike me, you have trouble criticising your own.

                      4-You have bias when it comes to certain gender issues.

                    • Blade …
                      9 June 2022 at 12:18 am

                      @ KJT

                      ''Didn't see any Māori.''

                      Not quite what I meant. But good on the Marae for helping out.

                    • Incognito []
                      9 June 2022 at 8:50 am

                      Your anti-Māori vibe was loud & clear and fits in well with your other comments and MO.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      9 June 2022 at 8:54 am

                      Anti-Maori?

                      That'd be "anti-Blade" wouldn't it?

    • In Vino 6.2
      8 June 2022 at 10:31 am

      Blade – I read that crap in the local café. Utter baloney – the guy lies about methane, claims a closed system when much of his 'disappearing methane' converts to carbon dioxide, and peddles a load of wishful garbage.

      He claims that 'methane is gone in ten years.' If I remember correctly, that approximate figure is its half-life. And what is the point if farmers are replenishing it with a new full amount every year? No mention of methane being up to 60 times worse that CO2 as a heat-retaining gas.

      One-eyed, wishful drivel.

      Reply
      • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 6.2.1
        8 June 2022 at 10:43 am

        But believed as gospel by right whingers!

        Reply
      • Robert Guyton 6.2.2
        9 June 2022 at 8:56 am

        Methane, "disappears into …what? CO2, that's what, the worstest of the gasses!

        The Feds et al are trying to twist our thinking. But they are the twist.

        Reply
        • Drowsy M. Kram 6.2.2.1
          9 June 2022 at 9:26 am

          Groundswill: Twist and Shout.

          Increase in atmospheric methane set another record during 2021
          [7 April 2022]
          NOAA’s preliminary analysis showed the annual increase in atmospheric methane during 2021 was 17 parts per billion (ppb), the largest annual increase recorded since systematic measurements began in 1983. The increase during 2020 was 15.3 ppb. Atmospheric methane levels averaged 1,895.7 ppb during 2021, or around 162% greater than pre-industrial levels. From NOAA’s observations, scientists estimate global methane emissions in 2021 are 15% higher than the 1984-2006 period.
          …
          Control of many methane sources technically possible today
          “Reducing methane emissions is an important tool we can use right now to lessen the impacts of climate change in the near term, and rapidly reduce the rate of warming,” Spinrad said. “Let’s not forget that methane also contributes to ground-level ozone formation, which causes roughly 500,000 premature deaths each year around the world.”

          Reply
          • Robert Guyton 6.2.2.1.1
            9 June 2022 at 9:33 am

            Increase??

            But…but…splutters.

            Don't look up!!

            Keep your eyes firmly fixed on the plough-share!

            Reply
    • Muttonbird 6.3
      8 June 2022 at 8:36 pm

      I'll try to expand on this at some point but I believe Dairy Expansion in New Zealand is equivalent to Israeli Settlement Expansion in the occupied territories.

      Invade, set up families and business, and use that as means with which to not be able to roll back the original injustice.

      Reply
  7. Molly 7
    8 June 2022 at 10:04 am

    First case against Mega, claiming harm from social media algorithms , as evidenced by the Facebook revelations last year.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/meta-lawsuit-instagram-caused-eating-disorder-self-harm-rcna32221

    "It is the first lawsuit of its kind to draw from the Facebook Papers while exposing the real human harm behind its findings, Spence’s attorneys say. The suit also features previously unpublicized documents from the leaks, including one in which Meta identified “tweens” as “herd animals” who “want to find communities where they can fit in.” The attorneys argue that such documents demonstrate Meta’s efforts to recruit underage users to its platforms.

    “If you look at the extensive research that it [Meta] performed, they knew exactly what they were doing to kids, and they kept doing it,” said the founder of the Social Media Victims Law Center, Matthew P. Bergman, who is representing Spence and her family. “I wish I could say that Alexis’ case is aberrational. It’s not. The only aberration is that she survived.”"

    Reply
    • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 8.1
      8 June 2022 at 10:45 am

      If it suited their argument, they'd be screaming "Police brutality!"

      Reply
    • Puckish Rogue 8.2
      8 June 2022 at 12:10 pm

      Yes.

      Remember when National was in and it seemed like every other day there was a story about homeless people and families sleeping rough

      Now its Labours turn

      Reply
      • Muttonbird 8.2.1
        8 June 2022 at 7:59 pm

        Well, you and your fellow travellers are determined to link police action directly to Labour Party policy so I ask again, does yesterday's event in Newlands show the government is soft on crime?

        Perhaps the police and therefore, according to your theory, Jacinda Ardern could have done more than shot the man 8 times. Maybe some torture first. Would it have been better if police had taken out the entire family just to show the gangs who is boss?

        Just asking questions…

        [You are going too far and well beyond ‘just asking questions’ that are reasonable and within levels of what’s acceptable and tolerated here.

        From the Policy:

        Directly or indirectly advocating violence in any shape or form (including ‘jest’ and advocating self-harm) to individuals or groups is simply not allowed. Moderators will have a no-tolerance humourless response as the only possible response. If you want to talk about political conflicts around the world, then do so being mindful of this proscription.

        This is your warning – Incognito]

        Reply
    • Blade 8.3
      8 June 2022 at 12:22 pm

      You misunderstand. Having to shoot an offender during a dire situation has nothing to do with this government being soft, and useless on crime prevention.

      Have a look at the second clip in this link and see how scared a gang banger is of the police. If I was in charge no prick who probably doesn't even know how to flush the toilet would ever disrespect police, ambulance or medical staff without facing dire consequences, and if need be liberal use of the baton.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/128889716/police-shooting-death-man-held-knife-to-womans-throat-before-cops-fired

      Reply
      • KJT 8.3.1
        8 June 2022 at 12:32 pm

        Except this Government is not "soft" or "useless" on crime prevention except in the fevered imagination of right Wing scare mongerers.

        The effects of covid and the Ozzies exports of 501's are nothing to do with this Government.

        Consequences have little effect on violent crime which is mostly spur of the moment stuff. "Harsher punishments have little effect on deterrance".

        Breaking the Cycle of Violent Crime and Punishment: The Promise of Neuronormalization – Denson – 2021 – Social Issues and Policy Review – Wiley Online Library

        "Paradoxically, harsh punishments such as incarceration often increase offending rather than deter it, which produces a cycle of violent crime and punishment".

        Your revenge fantasies would result in more crime, and more victims!

        Mind you, right wingers love that. Fear is often a motivation for voting Conservative.

        Reply
        • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 12:43 pm

          "Paradoxically, harsh punishments such as incarceration often increase offending rather than deter it, which produces a cycle of violent crime and punishment".

          Cool.

          Lets not incarcerate anyone lest we be considered harsh

          Reply
          • KJT 8.3.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 12:48 pm

            Job protection. Eh?

            https://www.positive.news/society/the-empty-prisons-being-put-to-good-use-in-the-netherlands/

            “there are far fewer repeat offenders; and reported crime continues to decline.”

            Reply
            • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 12:52 pm

              I'd love to be made redundant due to not being needed

              Reply
              • KJT …
                8 June 2022 at 12:56 pm

                Certainly the evidence shows, that being "tough on crime" and incarcerating ever more people, doesn't reduce crime.

                Reply
                • Puckish Rogue …
                  8 June 2022 at 12:58 pm

                  "tough on crime" means different things to different people.

                  There are people who probably think Acts three crimes bill was "tough on crime"

                  Reply
            • Blade 8.3.1.1.1.2
              8 June 2022 at 1:01 pm

              The Netherlands as far as I'm aware, don't have the huge third world underclass we have. I would assume most of their prisoners would be able to read and flush a toilet.

              If we decriminalised all drug use ( with caveats attached) our prisons would be empty too.

              Can you guess what those caveats would be?

              Reply
              • KJT …
                8 June 2022 at 1:06 pm

                Thanks for inadvertently supporting one of my other points.

                If we increased welfare and wages, and didn't have a "third World underclass" we would also decrease crime.

                Reply
                • Blade …
                  8 June 2022 at 1:45 pm

                  No, KJT. I'm talking inherent third world mentalities that cannot be changed with wages or welfare.

                  For example, you may be wondering about my weird references to ''flushing toilets''

                  Two examples:

                  A rented flat was inspected by the owner. He wondered what a smell was. In the bedroom the tenants had crapped in the corner and put a blanket over the crap. The toilet was down the hallway.

                  When I helped a friend out on his orchard, an ablution block was built for the workers. It had three showers and four toilets. The toilets weren't flushed and the rubbish bins were full of used toilet paper.

                  You can't change that mindset. I would also like to add, that definitely not all third world folk are uncivilised ( by or standards), but some are.

                  Back to the caveats?

                  What would yours be if all drug use was decriminalised? There is no right or wrong answer, but maybe our ideologies would influence our opinions.

                  Reply
                  • KJT …
                    8 June 2022 at 1:51 pm

                    Didn't take much to expose your bene bashing rascist bigotry. Eh?

                    Reply
                    • Blade …
                      8 June 2022 at 2:13 pm

                      I'm sorry. I'll forget I saw unflushed toilets. Or the angry Muslim man I knocked out when he became agitated with a woman employee who didn't know whether the meat they sold was halal or not. When he pushed her I dealt to him.

                      These people don't give a flying fig about your welfare system or wokey ways. They just want your money if possible. Then they want you to piss off.

                      But to the Caveats? Here’s one:

                      1- All drug users must be registered. Once registered they may consume any drug they want. However, should they present for medical treatment associated with drug use. They will be denied treatment. They can either die in the hospital car park… or crawl home. It would therefore be prudent for them to take out private healthcare so the rest of us don’t have to pick up the tab.

                  • Incognito …
                    8 June 2022 at 5:00 pm

                    WTF! Babies shit their nappies, toddlers can be potty-trained, but uncivilised savages will always be uncivilised, their mind-sets cannot be changed, and they will always crap on your floor!? Yet, they’re useful slaves and good enough, only good enough, to do our shit jobs for peanuts!?

                    Aren’t you the macho hero for defending a woman against an agitated Muslim man and knocking him out? Did you run off to the pub to brag about it to your mates or just here on TS?

                    You are showing your true colours in and by every comment you make here.

                    Reply
                  • RedLogix …
                    9 June 2022 at 9:47 am

                    For what it is worth we encountered exactly the same problem in one of our rentals many years back. Literally the tenant did not know what the toilet was for, had ripped up some floor boards and was throwing all their rubbish under the house.

                    But bigotry.

                    Reply
          • Drowsy M. Kram 8.3.1.1.2
            8 June 2022 at 1:19 pm

            Lets not incarcerate anyone lest we be considered harsh…

            Some do favour harsh (cruel or severe) punishment – seems counter-productive, even when it's not just for 'kicks'.

            Set up to fail: The politics, mechanisms, and effects of mass incarceration [August 2021]

            Challenges raised by high incarceration rates

            Mass incarceration in the United States is a civil rights issue. Organizations such as the Prison Policy Initiative argue that incarceration dehumanizes poor people and minorities, damages already marginalized communities, and often jails people for small-scale offenses such as marijuana possession in countries where weed is illegal. Additionally, evidence exists that a high incarceration rate does not actually increase public safety—a stance often validated by data on crime rate per country, murder rates, rape statistics, and gun violence per country. Nor, for that matter, does capital punishment, commonly known as the death penalty.

            Mass incarceration can also lead to several logistical issues including prison overcrowding, which increases health risks and decreases the psychological well-being of those inside. Around the world, many countries have jail occupancy rates that exceed 100% of their prison system’s capacity.

            https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country

            https://www.nzhowardleague.org.nz/

            Reply
        • Blade 8.3.1.2
          8 June 2022 at 12:51 pm

          ''The effects of covid and the Ozzies exports of 501's are nothing to do with this Government.''

          It has everything to do with the government because it's incumbent on the government to react to changing circumstances…and most importantly of all, its priority to keep citizens safe.

          I'm through arguing the toss. See PR's link. If that was a one off, then it wouldn't be important. The FACT is many people in communities across the country are scared.

          That may be a better indicator of how affective this government is on crime.

          Reply
        • Chris T 8.3.1.3
          8 June 2022 at 2:23 pm

          "Mind you, right wingers love that. Fear is often a motivation for voting Conservative."

          While I agree the US right tended years ago to use fear, but you could mount the same argument with Ardern and Covid.

          It is basically just a political tool.

          ""Paradoxically, harsh punishments such as incarceration often increase offending rather than deter it, which produces a cycle of violent crime and punishment"."

          I would add "without intervention and rehabilitation and hopefully some training for focus on a trade" to that, but tend to agree again.

          But lets face it. There are some people that need to be separated from normal society for a while, due to public safety. Let's face it. You sometimes just strike the odd piece of human scum.

          Reply
          • KJT 8.3.1.3.1
            8 June 2022 at 2:40 pm

            Fear, justified, of COVID was a motivation for some of the conservative swing to Labour.

            And the windup about crime, now.

            A thoughtful prison officer I knew reckoned the intractable was less than 3%. “The real evil buggers”.

            I suspect often with other unresolved issues such as ODD.

            Reply
            • Puckish Rogue 8.3.1.3.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 4:54 pm

              Its a helluva thing when you meet someone worse than a kiddie fiddler for the first time

              Really messes with your equilibrium

              Reply
        • Anker 8.3.1.4
          8 June 2022 at 10:23 pm

          https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1043986206298949

          But poor self control is a key predicter of criminal behaviour, and it is incremental in its impact.

          The Dunedin Multi Disciplinary study has found that good self control at 3 years of age predicts good outcomes including low rates of criminality.

          Why we are training kids in self control skills is beyond me.

          Reply
        • Anker 8.3.1.5
          8 June 2022 at 10:27 pm

          https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1043986206298949

          But poor self control is a key predicter of criminal behaviour, and it is incremental in its impact.

          The Dunedin Multi Disciplinary study has found that good self control at 3 years of age predicts good outcomes including low rates of criminality.

          Why we are training kids in self control skills is beyond me.

          Your article kjt is interesting, but it states that trials should be consdiered in this intervention, rather than there being good evidence that it works

          Reply
          • KJT 8.3.1.5.1
            9 June 2022 at 4:11 am

            Which begs the question.

            If it is something inherent from birth.

            What degree is actual personal responsibility/choice?

            Reply
      • Jimmy 8.3.2
        8 June 2022 at 1:00 pm

        Thanks for pointing out the second clip, I missed it first time. Yep it shows they have no respect for the police and have no fear of the police actually acting upon their abuse.

        Reply
      • Blade 8.4.1
        8 June 2022 at 12:54 pm

        ''Third world country''

        Enough said. The next stop for all those scared people across our once great nation is the voting booth.

        Reply
        • Puckish Rogue 8.4.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 12:56 pm

          What gets me is that these are Labours heartland, you'd think Labour would care about them a little

          Reply
          • Blade 8.4.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 1:07 pm

            I have thought similar, PR. Seems to me their ideology must always come first. The body count is collateral damage. Then again maybe not enough people in the heartlands imbibe Chardonnay?

            Reply
            • KJT 8.4.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 1:17 pm

              The "body count" is at the door of those who for decades have ignored the evidence about how we can reduce crime, to pander to "tough on crime fantacists.

              Sending generations to "Crime University" to become students of incarcerated gang members, while ignoring the needs for literacy, mental health, meaning ful work, and participation in the community.

              It is at the door of F wits like you, who ignore overwhelming evidence of how to really reduce crime, to indulge their own fear and wet dreams.

              The extra victims that may have never been victims, if the underlying causes of crime had been addressed.

              Reply
              • Blade …
                8 June 2022 at 1:27 pm

                Calm down, KJT.

                ''It is at the door of F wits like you.''

                I have no problem with you thinking I'm a fuckwit. Probably 90% of the blog thinks similarcrying.

                But please remember about keeping things civil as Incognito recently warned. It's about keeping the ambience of this blog respectful and safe. And at the moment I'm not feeling safe with your korero.

                Reply
                • KJT …
                  8 June 2022 at 1:39 pm

                  From someone who has been abusive, patronising and dismissive to just about every commentator here.

                  LOL.

                  If you feel intellectually unsafe, it is not my problem.

                  The sites Kaupapa is "robust debate".

                  Reply
                  • Blade …
                    8 June 2022 at 2:02 pm

                    I have a soft spot for Weka. Even though she drags me around by my nose ring . But I wouldn't want to be abusive towards her.

                    I like to think of myself as one of the good guys.

                    But please remember, calling someone a fuckwit is not ''robust debate.''

                    Reply
                    • KJT …
                      8 June 2022 at 2:14 pm

                      Patronising still.

                      Even when they have been one?

                      I’m a seafarer by the way. Not one of the “Woke” that think F wits delicate feelings should be respected.

                    • Blade …
                      8 June 2022 at 3:07 pm

                      ''I’m a seafarer by the way.''

                      Me to in a way. I was born with seaweed behind my ears. I'm always at my best when breathing in all those negative ions that a sea breeze brings.

                      My brother in law was first officer on the coastal Tanker Amokura, before going on to captain a super tanker in the Persian gulf. So I have been on these vessels.

                      My claim to fame is going from Mt Maunganui beach to Mayor Island on a standup jet ski circa 1988. The tech wasn't great in those days and it was a bit freaky with a fuel container resting on the running board.

                      However, talk is cheap. Seafarer's test.

                      1- Is a tanker in more danger of exploding when it's full of oil or empty?

                      2- If a tanker is coming to it's moorings listing port side, who should greet it – Luxon or Ardern?

                      Let's hear some of your stories.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      8 June 2022 at 3:59 pm

                      I like to think of myself as one of the good guys. – Blade

                      laugh laugh laugh
                      Don't we all – although if you really could make anthropogenic global warming go away just by declaring it a scam then you would be a very good guy indeed.

                      Just one question – how do you cope with all the sand?

                      Naomi Oreskes, Why Science Failed to Stop Climate Change [10 November 2019]
                      ExxonMobil loves to accuse me of being “an activist.” I am, in fact, a teacher and a scholar. Most of the time, I’d rather be home working on my next book, but that increasingly seems like less of an option when Big Energy’s climate-change scam is ongoing and our civilization is, quite literally, at stake. When citizens are inactive, democracy fails — and this time, if democracy fails, as burning California shows, so much else could fail as well. Science isn’t enough. The rest of us are needed. And we are needed now.

                    • Incognito …
                      8 June 2022 at 5:16 pm

                      But please remember, calling someone a fuckwit is not ''robust debate.''

                      Correct, and if that’s all there’s to a comment, pretty much, than there’s a high chance that it will be moderated with a warning, at least. Generally and mostly, Mods look for patterns of behaviour and commenting rather than isolated expletives, slurs, or even personal attacks, which can all be (a minor!) part of robust debate. However, we prefer it if you keep it civil.

              • Anker …
                8 June 2022 at 10:28 pm

                Where is your evidence of how to really reduce crime kjt??

                I suspect for the hardened criminals who PR works with it is too late.

                Reply
            • Puckish Rogue 8.4.1.1.1.2
              8 June 2022 at 1:22 pm

              I'll leave it to the inimitable Orwell:

              “I have known numbers of bourgeois Socialists, I have listened by the hour to their tirades against their own class, and yet never, not even once, have I met one who had picked up proletarian table-manners.”

              Reply
    • Jimmy 8.5
      8 June 2022 at 12:32 pm

      From the article "A man fatally shot by police was holding a knife to the throat of a woman "

      If that's true then well done to the police, he had to be 'taken out'. You can't F around if he's armed and obviously dangerous.
      He also will not re-offend.

      Reply
  10. Puckish Rogue 10
    8 June 2022 at 12:35 pm

    Short post this time.

    If you were considering watching The Rings Of Power (and you really shouldn't) and the arguments about it not being Tolkien enough aren't enough to sway then maybe this clip will help change your mind

    Its basically about how Amazon bailed on NZ (due to Covid restrictions) and went to the UK to film

    Reply
    • weka 10.1
      8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm

      is that a prequel?

      Reply
      • weka 10.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm

        I haven't watched any of the films, too much a fan of the books.

        Reply
        • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 1:33 pm

          Ok if you only trust me on one thing ever then trust me on this.

          If you haven't watched the films because you're too much of a fan of the books then you absolutely will not want to watch this

          Reply
          • weka 10.1.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 2:30 pm

            lol, no way will be I watching it.

            Reply
            • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 4:06 pm

              Nor I (I mean I'll have to watch some parts just to see how bad it is)

              Reply
              • Belladonna …
                8 June 2022 at 4:34 pm

                Sort of schadenfreude? The horrified attention that keeps your eyes to a slow-motion wreck on reality TV?

                I'll be watching some of it – to see friends who were in the cast (extras, not stars).

                Though, really, if you want to write a woke fantasy story, with super diverse casting, and characterization which departs from canon – do so. Just leave Tolkien out of it….

                The criticism that I've read so far, is that they could have made *most* of the changes, effectively, if they'd bothered to actually integrate them into the extant lore – instead of just pasting them on top. A lazy process which does disservice both to Tolkien and the actors cast in the roles.

                I don't love some of the changes that Jackson (et al) made to LOTR – but they were a hell of a lot more intellectually honest than what I'm seeing from RoP

                Reply
                • Puckish Rogue …
                  8 June 2022 at 4:43 pm

                  'Sort of schadenfreude? The horrified attention that keeps your eyes to a slow-motion wreck on reality TV?'

                  I'd rather not watch it (and I'm not going to watch all of it) but if I'm going to criticize (and I will) I need to watch some of it so I can really go to town on it

                  Similar to the Star Wars tv series, I watch enough of it so I can criticize properly

                  'I'll be watching some of it – to see friends who were in the cast (extras, not stars)'

                  Thats fair enough, I'd do the same as well

                  For the rest of your comments I'll just say I 100% agree

                  Reply
      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.2
        8 June 2022 at 1:42 pm

        Its based primarily on the appendices (sort of) of The Lord Of The Rings.

        If' you'd like a little taster of what its about Amazon put out a clip with 'superfans' (their words not mine) talking about the trailer

        Amazon also really quickly pulled the superfans clip because of how bad it was reuploaded so thats good

        For a potentially lethal drinking game take a drink everytime someone mentions representation, diversity or other woke terms:

        Reply
        • Incognito 10.1.2.1
          8 June 2022 at 2:35 pm

          Now look who’s bringing up drinking again!

          I sense a pattern and I can almost smell it too …

          Reply
    • Incognito 10.2
      8 June 2022 at 1:35 pm

      I thought you liked Top Gun!?

      Reply
      • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1
        8 June 2022 at 1:44 pm

        I'm not one to judge but isn't it a bit early to be drinking?

        Reply
        • Incognito 10.2.1.1
          8 June 2022 at 2:30 pm

          Here it is: https://thestandard.org.nz/top-gun/#comment-1890709; you do like Top Gun!

          Woosh! That was not the sound of Tom Cruise flying low over your head. All good though.

          I thought Correction Officers had to be sound judges of people and characters!?

          Anyway, I drink coffee all day round, probably way too much, and I never drink alcohol when active online, which is pretty much all the time except when I’m having a good time with friends & family and even a drink or two.

          Reply
          • Puckish Rogue 10.2.1.1.1
            8 June 2022 at 4:05 pm

            Well maybe you can explain to me what Top Gun Maverick has to do with The Rings Of Power, I couldn't see the connection so I assumed it was your day time drinking or maybe it was one of the those really subtle comments you like to make every now and then, comments so subtle that no one has any idea of what you're talking about

            The Spanish Archer is waiting

            Reply
            • Incognito 10.2.1.1.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 5:26 pm

              I actually watched your YT clip, on 2× speed, and there were plenty of references in it to Hollywood and none positive. Even without watching the clip there are many parallels and points of connection with Hollywood. Can’t help it if you don’t grasp your own material, so perhaps dial back on the ‘criticizing’ and “really go[ing] to town on it”.

              Reply
              • Puckish Rogue …
                8 June 2022 at 5:56 pm

                So you missed the points where I've mentioned the tide is turning on woke entertainment?

                That I used Top Gun Maverick as an example of this non-woke entertainment that is also financially successful?

                That this provides proof for Hollywood of the type of movies people actually want to see?

                Missed all that?

                Stick to day drinking Spanish Archer

                Reply
                • Incognito …
                  8 June 2022 at 6:23 pm

                  Nowadays, woke and scientology are almost as bad as each other.

                  Although your comment @ 10 was the most-woke [wokiest?] one I’ve seen in a while, it did not actually say anything about anything you claim it said!? Perhaps you wish to re-read your comment about Amazon?

                  Or perhaps it is time for you to come out as woke warrior?

                  Reply
                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    8 June 2022 at 6:34 pm

                    Amazon bailed on filming in NZ, the govt subsidised a studio, what part of that did you fail to spot or did you not actually watch it

                    C'mon Spanish Archer you can do better than that

                    Reply
                    • Incognito …
                      8 June 2022 at 8:34 pm

                      It’s a terrible tragedy, $30M for the film studio in Henderson and no Amazon. Thus, you argued, we should not watch that movie (plus for some other obscure reasons that affronted your delicate senses of wokeness). OTOH, you love Top Gun!? Can’t you see the delicious irony?

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      8 June 2022 at 9:20 pm

                      'It’s a terrible tragedy, $30M for the film studio in Henderson and no Amazon. Thus, you argued, we should not watch that movie '

                      I've argued that it shouldn't be watched because its going to be crap and that should be enough

                      If thats not enough then I'll make an appeal to peoples dislike of billionaires, corporations and subsidies to try to make people avoid the series on those basis, whatever strategy works

                      'OTOH, you love Top Gun!? Can’t you see the delicious irony?'

                      Spanish Archer you are a fucktard

                      Top Gun Maverick was made for the fans, made to be entertaining, to be non-political and absolutely non-woke

                      The movie showed respect to the fans by not shitting on the previous movie

                      It didn't make Maverick a joke or someone that had to be led by others

                      It promised entertainment and it delivered.

                      It shows what happens when you make entertainment for the people whereas The Rings Of Power is the exact opposite

                      The Rings Of Power proudly exclaims how diverse it is, in their words: 'because they wanted to ensure that it reflected "what the world actually looks like" and felt that would be closer to the spirit of the books.'

                      Top Gun Maverick gave the people what they wanted and so I praise them for it because I want more of this (non-woke entertainment)

                      The Rings Of Power are not giving the people what they want so I'm lambasting them for it

                      Do you get it now or do I need to spell it out for you some more now fuck off and go jerk off somewhere else

                      Actually you know what, you probably still don't get it so I'll bring it down a notch just for you.

                      Studio puts out good entertainment = praise

                      Studio puts out bad entertainment = criticism

                      This is Spanish Archer right about now:

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYmn3Gwn3oI

                    • Incognito []
                      8 June 2022 at 9:50 pm

                      I’ve argued that it shouldn’t be watched because its going to be crap and that should be enough

                      Hilarious! You haven’t watched and were not going to watch it, but only parts, so that you “can really go to town on it”, but you know (!) it’ll be crap!?

                      If thats not enough then I’ll make an appeal to peoples dislike of billionaires, corporations and subsidies to try to make people avoid the series on those basis, whatever strategy works

                      Yeah, and Top Gun was an Indie movie made on a shoestring budget and Tom Cruise did a gratis cameo.

                      Spanish Archer you are a fucktard

                      Absolutely! But at least I’m not a closet woke-warrior with a drinking problem.

                      Do you get it now or do I need to spell it out for you some more now fuck off and go jerk off somewhere else

                      Actually you know what, you probably still don’t get it so I’ll bring it down a notch just for you.

                      You should really see somebody about that issue of yours because you do seem to lose your temper so quickly nowadays – are you missing JC? Tell you what, lay off the bottle for a while.

                      Bye now, have sweet dreams 😉

                    • Puckish Rogue …
                      8 June 2022 at 10:18 pm

                      The show is going to be shit because:

                      It proclaims it as Lord Of The Rings yet it is far removed from what Tolkien wrote and because its a couple of inexperienced, young writers the episodes will not be Tolkien, it will be generic though

                      The show will be shit because we've seen this all before.

                      Game Of Thrones was a very good tv series, it was good because the show runners were adapting from George RR Martin

                      However

                      The show came to a grinding halt and got really, really bad in the later series because once the showrunners had no books to work off and had to create themselves they just couldn't do it because they were not as good a writers as Martin was (hes never finishing the series by the way)

                      The Rings Of Power have not learned that lesson

                      The Wheel Of Time had all the books it needed but instead decided to move away from the source material, as an example we all know that female and male magic are the two halves and you need both but the tv series doesn't (also released through Amazon Prime)

                      I could go on, the treatment of Halo, The Witcher, Disney Star Wars etc etc

                      The lessons here are simple, simple enough even you can grasp it.

                      Fans like the source material, fans get attached to the source material, you better be very careful when you change the source material and you shouldn't insult the fans when they complain

                      The Rings Of Power have not learnt these lessons so yeah its going to be bad, I don't know just how bad it will be but it will be bad.

                      Respect the fans and you'll make money or get woke and go broke.

                      Top Gun Maverick respected the fans, respected the source material and is now making bank and I don't care that Tom Cruise is in a cult either

                      Sure its written, sure its probably insincere but that he thanked the fans was a nice touch and his movie is reaping the rewards:

                      What do we get from Disney and Amazon, just that we're all racist if we don't like what they produce

      • Jimmy 10.2.2
        8 June 2022 at 1:59 pm

        The new Top Gun was quite entertaining, I wouldn't say its the best storyline and its very similar to the original.

        Reply
        • Puckish Rogue 10.2.2.1
          8 June 2022 at 2:08 pm

          It surpassed the original in all ways except one, the romance.

          It felt shoehorned in, it wasn't bad, it just wasn't up to the rest of the movie.

          Its not a fault but it felt like we were missing another movie, a movie based around Icemans promotions and Mavericks shennanigans

          But charmingly non political, non woke, pure entertainment for the fans

          Funny how the most non-cultish movie of recent times was made by a very well known Scientologist

          Reply
        • Incognito 10.2.2.2
          8 June 2022 at 2:32 pm

          Given up on so-called Hollywood movies years ago and it’s Indies for me all the way.

          Reply
          • Puckish Rogue 10.2.2.2.1
            8 June 2022 at 4:20 pm

            Shame because Hollywood has been desperately trying to court the left for years now

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture#2020s

            Reply
            • Incognito 10.2.2.2.1.1
              8 June 2022 at 5:29 pm

              I prefer looking for diamonds in the rough and have unearthed many real gems. Of course, there’s European and Asian cinema, and African (incl. South African). Once you look away from Hollywood you realise that there’s so much more to enjoy. I have greatly enjoyed Hollywood movies in the past, even the action flicks, but taste develops with time & experience just as good wine ripens [intentional pun; hope it wasn’t too subtle for you]

              Reply
    • roblogic 10.3
      8 June 2022 at 2:11 pm

      I will probably torrent it.. like everything else 😛🏴‍☠️

      Reply
      • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1
        8 June 2022 at 2:16 pm

        Wait until its released on streaming first.

        The more people see this at the movies the bigger and louder the message is to Hollywood that we don't want woke movies, movies that contain "the message", that diversity and representation is not more important than storylines and decent acting, that we want entertaining movies

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gun:_Maverick

        'The film will be available on Paramount+, but only more than 45 days after its theatrical release.'

        Reply
  11. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 11
    8 June 2022 at 2:22 pm

    Ha! Luxon got beaten up again by Jacinda in question time.

    He simply doesn't know his material, and she does!

    Still directing his attack and Poto Williams, a damned fine Minister of Police.

    Reply
  12. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 12
    8 June 2022 at 2:54 pm

    Wow!

    Just watched our wonderful Minister of Police put bully boy Mercenary Mitchell properly in his place!

    Well done, Poto.

    Reply
    • ianmac 12.1
      8 June 2022 at 4:49 pm

      Agreed Tony. Both Luxon and Willis prepare their questions but totally fail to listen to the answers, and totally fail to adjust in the light of the answers given. A disconnect between question and answer! Pointless.

      Mitchell strangely did listen to one of Poto's great answers, and redirected his question back to Poto and not the Police, but sadly for him he was corrected that the Minister was for policy and funding, and Police carried out the operations.

      Reply
      • Incognito 12.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 5:33 pm

        You would think that Mitchell knows better; hadn’t he recently met with the Police Commissioner Andrew Coster? Perhaps he confused policy & funding in that meeting too?

        Reply
    • rod 12.2
      8 June 2022 at 5:01 pm

      Keep up the good news Tony. I doubt it will be on 1 news tonight though, they don't like it up em.smiley

      Reply
  13. newsense 13
    8 June 2022 at 3:50 pm

    Dunno if this happened yesterday but the Spin-off reporting on Ipsos shows National with the political wind in their sails.

    Frankly I think the Labour benches have been poor. Perhaps it’s government under these circumstances or the headwinds. I don’t know the power dynamics, but the idea of a wave of popular announcements coming from ministry after ministry doesn’t seem likely.

    Labour hasn’t been able to pivot yet, and now they’re playing catch up. It might be they will hold, but it’ll need some reinvention. Perhaps it’s culturally we need a bit of reinvention as a country and a good chunk of us are not keen on it or simply can’t. Aussie is trying to, but with their majority government it may not happen.

    National are going to get a lot of easy coverage as they carpet bomb BS. Labour are gunna get blamed for everything. It seems from up the thread they’re trying to attack the ref too. That’s normal.

    Let’s elect the speaker and all our judges, etc etc! Christ the National speakers were terrible. Mallard has sided with opposition complaints and penalized the government in a way I certainly haven’t seen reported before.

    I feel Labour needs some consistent muscular, relaxed and confident coverage. The international trip is a start, but you can’t depend on your leader entirely forever. Community was a buzzword in Aussie?

    Reply
    • Puckish Rogue 13.1
      8 June 2022 at 4:38 pm

      'Christ the National speakers were terrible.'

      National and Labour certainly have had some…questionable speakers but I think you're forgetting about Lockwood Smith

      Reply
      • newsense 13.1.1
        8 June 2022 at 5:59 pm

        Sang a good song. Why do you assume I’m old enough to remember him?

        Reply
      • Chris T 13.1.2
        8 June 2022 at 8:56 pm

        I think Speaker would be one of the biggest pain in the arse jobs in Parliament as an MP. You obviously get the extra cash, but she is a bit of a poisoned chalice.

        You kind of have to juggle backing the boss of your Party, while simultaneously trying to look non-biased.

        As I said last night. Think they should make it an independent job from outside, With someone with political nouce.

        I actually think someone like Peter Dunne would be quite good.

        Reply
        • newsense 13.1.2.1
          8 June 2022 at 10:40 pm

          Whoever it is it should not be subjected to polls of the public and trying to stir up angst against the speaker. The speaker’s office is what enables debate in the chamber and questioning of the government and should not be subject to such crude attacks.
          Don’t do it for refs. Ditto here.

          Reply
  14. Corey Humm 14
    8 June 2022 at 5:10 pm

    It's a good day in San Francisco, voters have voted to recall Chesa Boudins, a radical aristocratic socialist whose lawyer grandfather represented Castro and whose parents were leaders of cop killing, bank robbing, neighborhood and federal building bombing terrorist group the Weather underground.

    Good.

    America's private prisons are a disgrace and the kinds of minor crimes people go to prison for is disgusting. However, there needs to be a balance between throwing everyone in prison for quotas and not throwing anyone in prison or punishing anyone because of ideology.

    San Franciscos incredibly liberal voters are sick of "san Francisco snow" which is broken glass from cars shops and houses everywhere , they are sick of police not showing up to arrest shoplifters and defacto decriminalization of shoplifting (cops won't show up unless over a grand has been stolen) they are sick of shop windows being smashed in on broad daylight in front of police and nothing happening.

    The Mayor of the town actually tried to downplay and reassure the insane crime stats by saying it's only homocides and assaults that are massively up. Lmfao how reassuring.

    And it was democrats who led the charge against Boudin specifically democrats of colour, the yes to recall campaign was funded by San Francisco residents whereas the no campaign was funded by people in other cities in the state.

    He's gone. There must be a balance between neoliberal corporate justice reform and woke justice reform.

    Letting criminals run wild hurts the poorest the most.

    Now. Hopefully results like this wake the left everywhere up on crime.

    The punishment must suit the crime. It shouldn't exceed it and it shouldn't be a slap on the wrist.

    Also if 501s are being deported from Australia for breaking the law, the law should be changed so it's straight to prison for them. End of story.

    Voters especially ones in poorer and working class neighbourhoods will not tolerate weakness on crime and will vote for people who will be tough on crime no matter how much woke academics scream otherwise.

    Also the guardian called his terrorist parents "left wing activists" smh.

    If woke courts and woke sentencing guidelines won't fly in San Francisco, they won't fly anywhere.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thuieguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/07/san-francisco-vote-chesa-boudin-recall

    Reply
    • swordfish 14.1
      8 June 2022 at 6:01 pm

      .

      As always, the luxury beliefs of the affluent, bloated, narcissistic Woke – utterly divorced from reality – are guaranteed to create a nightmare living situation on a day-to-day basis for a whole swathe of the Left's traditional core constituency …

      … the constituency that, of course, founded, built & intellectually energised the Left for many decades before it was slowly but surely captured by 300 buck-an-hour virtue-signalling New Middle Class Professionals.

      Reply
  15. Anker 15
    9 June 2022 at 5:01 pm
    • 100% Corey and Swordfish.
    Reply

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It appears that the upgrade to Wordpress 6 is causing issues on the comment Reply feature. I'll look at that in a couple of hours lprent