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Open mike 13/06/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 13th, 2019 - 191 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

191 comments on “Open mike 13/06/2019”

  1. Jenny - How to Get there? 1

    All possible avenues…. 

    "We're interested in fixing the housing crisis and we're interested in all possible avenues."

    Minister of Housing Phil Twyford. June 12, 2019, (Yesterday)

     

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113428568/twyford-seeks-buildtorent-advice-as-nats-ramp-up-kiwi-dream-attack-rhetoric

     

    Yesterday's announcement from the Housing Minister that, we're interested in all possible avenues to fix the housing crisis, is great news.

    Of all the possible avenues, the one that will cost the least, and have immediate effect, potentially seeing tens of thousands of houses becoming immediately available to renters and buyers, is an empty homes tax.

  2. Robert Guyton 2

    Listen at 32:00

    Matriarchy/patriarchy 

    yeah/nah

    • RedLogix 2.1

      Listened to it. Parts I can identify with, others fall into the classic binary thinking trap as you imply in your comment.

      Domination is innate to all life, it's ancient and hard-wired into us at a biochemical level. This is the point Peterson makes, yet he also explains how we have taken this mechanism and evolved it into something extremely sophisticated and capable hierarchies that transcend crude bullying and coercion, instead competitively selecting for competency and respect. We also wrap into this schema powerful moral ideas such as duty, responsibility and loyalty.

      At the same time humans also evolved other biochemical pathways related to fairness, empathy and play to build a complex capacity for reciprocity, cooperation and partnership. This capacity enables us to sustain large, diverse communities that transcend mere genetic affiliation. In particular it means large groups of non-related males can tolerate each other in a manner that is completely unique to humans. We are so accustomed to this, we completely overlook it in daily life; in particular it enables humans to associate in large scale co-operative groups, villages, towns, cities, nations, cultures and communities at every imaginable scale. 

      The competitive/dominating impulse is symbolically allocated to the masculine, and to a modest degree human males are somewhat more competitive, aggressive and dominating than females. The cooperative/partnering impulse is symbolically feminine and again human females often choose this as their preferred mode. But crucially it is completely wrong to turn this into a binary male/female distinction. Both sexes share both modes and their temperamental traits overlap considerably. And all the evidence is as individuals and communities we need to operate in both modes, smoothly transitioning from one to the other depending on context; competition in some spaces, cooperation in others. Or even wrapped around each other in a mutual dance.

      Also I can agree with McKenna's suggestion that since we invented agriculture, we have tilted toward the competitive impulse more than the cooperative one. It can be best viewed as a form of specialisation, we turned down the volume on cooperation and let competition take centre stage. And along with all the mess, we have created a modern world utterly unimaginable when we began this journey. We got really good at the hierarchies necessary to develop material civilisation at a global scale.

      Having achieved this, and in the spirit of McKenna's intentions, it's now fair to say we should tilt back to the cooperative/service mode of being, turning up the volume on the feminine impulse so that it comes back into balance with the masculine. We need both to make a global civilisation work, it's not a good/bad choice.

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.1

        Accurately critiqued, RedLogix and your conclusion:

        "Having achieved this, and in the spirit of McKenna's intentions, it's now fair to say we should tilt back to the cooperative/service mode of being, turning up the volume on the feminine impulse so that it comes back into balance with the masculine. We need both to make a global civilisation work, it's not a good/bad choice."

        spot-on.

        Now, howegunnadoit?

      • Sabine 2.1.2

        and you truly believe all of that? 

        Having achieved this, and in the spirit of McKenna’s intentions, it’s now fair to say we should tilt back to the cooperative/service mode of being, turning up the volume on the feminine impulse so that it comes back into balance with the masculine.

  3. bewildered 3

    Just listen to the hosk speak to head of Colorado DEA, Chloe may  want to listen.He indicate the reality of legalising pot on the ground their unfortunately does not  agree with Chloe utopia and ivory tower research. Basically  more gangs, more usage, more metal health issues, more poisoning, more car accidents, increasing THC levels in product …..  In essence his advise don’t do it 

    • millsy 3.1

      So you think that people should just continue to be locked up for having a bag of weed on them.

      The thing with you people, is that you are prudes, plain and simple, you want to ban sex, drugs, booze, dancing, music, fun, and just have us reading the bible all day.

      • bewildered 3.1.1

        How many people are there in jail for smoking pot va distributing and selling pot 

        • millsy 3.1.1.1

          Heaps, thanks to jumped up bible bashing puritans like you. I suppose you like Jordan Peterson as well, the guy who wants to ban abortion and contraception.

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1

            + 1  yep they all stick together like the congealed fatbergs that they are.

            • greywarshark 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Great image of the day (year?) mm.

              • RedLogix

                How disgust imagery is used to dehumanise:

                "When most people think of disgust, they think of visceral stuff like bodily waste or germs, but research from the past 20 years has revealed that disgust can exert a subliminal influence on social and moral judgments," Kelly says. "If people are disgusted by something, they are likely to think it is dirty, tainted, unnatural or just wrong. Political rhetoric that excites disgust is a powerful tool that can be used to discredit or demonize an opponent or position. A common way to trigger the emotion is to portray someone as infecting the values or integrity of one's own social group."

                https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2012/Q3/prof-be-wary-when-disgust-tactics-used-in-campaigning.html

                • marty mars

                  yep let's be disgusted by the toxic attitudes I say as opposed to praising them eh

                   

                  • RedLogix

                    Disgust is the primitive emotion the Nazi's used to radicalise the German population into the idea of race supremacy and purity. It's most notorious exploitation has been on the extreme right, but they don't have a monopoly on it.

                    The extreme left also uses it with terms like 'toxic masculinity', 'toxic whiteness' and so on. And it's openly embraced as a tool to compare people to germs, cockroaches, scum, or in this instance sewer fatburgs. 

                    Disgust is a primitive emotion closely linked to our sense of smell, and in most people it arouses a powerful sense of aversion. It has an obvious evolutionary purpose to keep us safe from 'toxic' foods that could kill us. And like all deep emotional circuits it can be exploited to other purposes … in this case to dehumanise people with ideas you don't like.

                    It's also the exact opposite of empathy, inclusiveness, reciprocity and cooperation.

                    • marty mars

                      not the nazziiiiiissssss

                      come on – i'm sure you can do better than that.

                      I prefer to get worked up about toxic males and their nasty ideas about men, gender, sexuality, and so on. I also struggle with fundamentalism be it christian or any other 'religion'.

                      If anyone wants to ban abortion or contraception then they are the enemy to me – I will fight them – I already think jordon is the most insecure, weak male role model around – so I'm not impressed by that dumbdumb and his 'ideas' – it seems some of his supporter cohort do though if Alabama and the rest of the roll back of rights for women and minorities in the states is anything to go by. I think the handmaids tale is something to NOT aim for personally.

                      But get yourself into a self imposed twist if you want.

                      btw is it worse to compare to another living creature or an inanimate object – asking for a friend.

                    • marty mars

                      after my weak attempt at not taking responsibility…

                       

                      Upon reflection I think you are correct rl. In my haste to be a smartarse I hurt people, deliberately. I'm sorry to those I hurt. The analogy was cruel and not necessary. I'm taking the day off.

                    • bewildered []

                      Hey Marty you choose to be offended and I am not, so call me what you like 👍 others however may be a little more fragile 

                    • RedLogix

                      Disgust has it's place. It's a legitimate response to extreme acts by individuals, for instance we'd both certainly be disgusted by child rapists, mass murderers and lying hypocrites. 

                      But extending disgust to demonise ideas and whole groups of people is where it gets dangerous. It's well understood this is one of the tools Hitler routinely used in his propaganda speeches and a lesson worth absorbing. 

                      As for Peterson wanting to ban contraception and abortion, he's mentioned the pill and its unprecedented impact on society several times. At the very least, he would say that easy access to safe abortion is one of those  powerful and disruptive technologies whose net impact is yet to be fully understood. It's difficult to deny that the advent of both contraception and abortion coincides with a decrease in pair bonding, in family formation and family size, which itself brings its own pathologies. I don't think he'd want to state a black and white opinion on the issue because, as with many things, it's a complicated matter.

                      This aligns with my own instincts; in all the years I've commented here I've never stated a fixed position on topics like casual sex, abortion or drugs. Like Peterson I respond to anyone caught up in these issues with compassion and encourage them to listen to their own inner conscience.

                      PS. And in solidarity marty … I think I'll take the day off too. We probably both have things to do. 

                • greywarshark

                  I still like that general imagery of fatbergs for the deliberately uncaring and it is less hurtful than say a drive-by shooting by a gang member.   

                  However I recall the rat propaganda of Nazis, and recognise your caution  above.

                   

                  • RedLogix

                    the deliberately uncaring 

                    Without endorsing intentionally provocative people like Hoskings for one instant (I can't stand him either) … the left does get tangled up in misunderstanding right wing motivations.

                    Jonathon Haidt explains it well here. It's not terribly long and apologies for relinking to it a second time:

                    https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind

                     

                    • greywarshark

                      I'm interested in outcomes and reserve the right to make up my mind about RW motivations.    I am not so Left that i can't think in a balanced way to make my judgments.

                      I'll read the proferred link if I have time.  Thanks.

              • marty mars

                bit mean and probably too visceral for some I'd say.

                Here''s a nice song I'm loving at the moment with a lovely message of change and acceptance – plus a great sing along chorus.



                 

                 

                • greywarshark

                  It changes ~ my morning mantra.

                  • greywarshark

                    I put this up late on Daily Review so bring it forward so it gets seen – might be a place still for workshop at Nelson library if interested.

                    In Nelson the Wikipedian at Large Dr Mike Dickison – this Saturday from 9.30-10 to 4 pm is doing an edit a thon to show how to do it and open up Wikipedia's methods to all.   There may be some places still.    It is being held at the city library the Elma Turner on Halifax Street, just down from the Trafalgar St bridge and the City Council.    It also is free.    Your own device is needed.

                    To see if there are still places – Email to – Rosamund Feeney <rosamund.feeney@ncc.govt.nz>

                    Ngā mihi,
                    Rosamund Feeney
                    Community Programmes Coordinator
                    Nelson City Council | Te Kaunihera o Whakatū
                    P 03 539 5507

                    nelson.govt.nz

    • CC 3.2

      Or …. https://www.denverpost.com/2018/10/26/colorado-marijuana-impact-report/. The Colorado DEA has far worse drug issues with Class A and international cartels.

    • Robert Guyton 3.3

      Be bewildered:

      "Just listen to the hosk speak"

      No thanks

      " Chloe may  want to listen"

      I doubt it very much.

      "He indicate the reality"

      "He indicate"?

      "of legalising pot"

      Pot???

      Lord, preserve us from these fools.

      • bewildered 3.3.1

        Robert check your potting  mix it’s effecting you 😊Lets just ignore the people who need to clean up the mess that  legalising dope creates 

        • millsy 3.3.1.1

          As opposed to giving people permananet black marks for having a couple of cones on a Saturday night, leaving them locked out of housing and employment?

          Take your puritianism somewhere else. We dont want it here.

          • bwaghorn 3.3.1.1.1

            Its complicated.  I know a dude that finally went off weed so he could get a better job . 

            After a couple of decades of use . 

            In TWO weeks he is so different in a good way . 

            If it's legal hell be straight back on it

            • Andre 3.3.1.1.1.1

              That will depend on his conditions of employment. If his job requires he be drug-free, then he'll have the same choice between weed and work he has now. After all, alcohol is currently legal but most workplaces won't tolerate someone fronting up pissed.

              • gsays

                On the way to work this am, RNZ had a lawyer from E Tu union (I think, may have been another union) saying that employers need to shift to saliva testing for THC as protocols are established now and it is a test of impairment ​​​​.

                The common urine drug test (often a profit-employment requirement) is humiliating and usually none of the employers business.

                Another life ago, I had to have a woman watch me urinate, to get a factory job. A factory job that disappeared after 3 months was up and they had gotten a 'bulge' of orders met.

                 

                I have wondered how long it would take for this degrading practice to be stopped, but because it mainly happens to the great unwashed, resources, inclination and a lack of time it continues.

            • Sabine 3.3.1.1.1.2

              If it's legal hell be straight back on it

               

              i guess you were saying that if weed became legal  he'll be straight back on it? 

              Why? He got himself of the weed after decades on it – are you saying that guy has no self control? Or that legal weed will just to much for him to handle and thus he will get straight back on? Seriously?  

              And would he not stay of in order to keep his 'better' job? 

              Also, are you going to advocate for alcohol to be criminalised considering the harm that is done by people abusing this currently legal drug? 

              • bwaghorn DJ

                I cant see how if it's legal employers can insist on people not smoking weed in their own time . They will have to shift to an impairment test of some sort . 

                My point is how many finaly broke the habit because of zero tolerance at work that wont have that carrot and stick if its legal

                • Sabine

                  then he / she has not broken the habit, they just have curtailed it to fit the job, or keep a bit of warm piss handy. 

                   

                   

        • Robert Guyton 3.3.1.2

          bewildered; it's already a mess. Sticking with the existing mess is not sensible. Hoskings is harming the possibility of improving the situation. You are doing that also. Your careless pot-shot-taking is irresponsible; what are you thinking (are you thinking?)

          • greywarshark 3.3.1.2.1

            Ground control to Major Tom

            Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong

            • Bruce 3.3.1.2.1.1

              Nice, i was going to post ziggy stardust, 'turn on and be wonderful' this guys big toe bought more joy and wonder to the world than than the befucked in the head could create in a 100 lifetime.

              And cleaning up the mess of a ravaged country, hemp milk  another solution,

                • Bruce

                  http://hempforvictory.nz/#about-1-1-1   I didnt want link to the herald article in the same search, but we have a producers coming soon and I see that baby hating/sarc  Ray Avery is keen to invest

                   

                   Hemp milk (besides breast milk) is one of the most amazing milks on the planet, and the seeds themselves are some of the most bio-available proteins on the planet, containing all essential amino acids we need to survive.

                   

                  • patricia bremner

                    Anybody could grow it,  so controlling the market place would be difficult,  unless it is grown under licence.  What will they call the controlling body?  Hempera? Lol lol.

          • bewildered 3.3.1.2.2

            Being serious now Robert and not using hosk to wind you lefty’s up I don’t want pot legalised, I have kids , I have a lot friends who smoke pot, I am not naive, I lived in London many years, done the Amsterdam thing, Portugal etc I have experience drug free laws, the drug environment I don’t like it and current arrangements is just fine, sort of legal if you don’t take the piss I suggest there are many like me and don’t need an academic or 24 year old to tell me different I remember closing mental hospitals and letting the community manage it with lots of government support was a great idea on the Theory and research as well As with all left dogma unintended consequences are simply ignored

            • McFlock 3.3.1.2.2.1

              I suggest there are many like me

               

              A referendum would determine the accuracy of that suggestion.

            • Cinny 3.3.1.2.2.2

              Often kids imitate their parents behaviour. 

              So it’s up to us as parents to choose what we normalise.

            • Sabine 3.3.1.2.2.3

              are you going to then lobby for alcohol to be made illegal as all your points raised apply equally to the abuse of alcohol. 

               

    • Robert Guyton 3.4

      "In a Mike’s Minute commentary this week, Mike Hosking told his listeners and readers that the government’s Wellbeing Budget “subscribed $1.9 billion to mental health, and yet the next move is to decriminalise a substance directly linked to psychosis.

      “How mad is that?” he demanded. “How many health professionals do you need to hear from to make up your mind about the madness?”

      The answer to these questions can best be found in He Ara Oranga: the Report of the Government Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction, which, as the NZ Herald observedon its release in December, is the most comprehensive report of its kind in a generation.

      The expert panel that delivered the report did not rail against decriminalisation of drugs. It did the opposite. Its list of recommendations called for the replacement of criminal sanctions for use and possession of drugs with civil and health responses."

      • greywarshark 3.4.1

        Only RW ranters have the arrogance and ignorance to mount their fevered arguments and campaigns and mouth to the public without shame, unaffected by any countervailing facts.    And RW are the people who listen and accept because they don't want to bother to find out that the situation is far more complex than explained.    And they don't want to spend time informing themselves from a wide variety of informed sources.   

        Lazy minds, intent on narrow thinking so they can concentrate on their own obsessions and advancing themselves, their feelings about others being along the lines that they are probably a waste of space and if any money or concessions are made to match others' needs, that means less money available for themselves.

        • bewildered 3.4.1.1

          Hmmm The expressed views of DEA on the ground is not countervailing facts, …….OK ?

      • millsy 3.4.2

        Mike Hosking would have started his TV career at Avalon studios in the 1980's which was well known for its long very boozy lunches, having a bar onsite. I wonder how many times he partook.

         

        The neo-puritanism of Hosking,Garner, et al is sickening. They want us all to live like monks. After their crusade against the demon weed is complete, what activity will they seek to criminalise next?

         

        The proposals brought forward by the government are pretty restrictive anyway (and provide a balance between the needs of those who want to use a bit of pot without being locked up, and those who dont want to be around it).

        • greywarshark 3.4.2.1

          Correction about H & G:  'They want us all, who are not in their inner group and wealth-set, to live like monks.'

        • bewildered 3.4.2.2

          Mike Hoskins smoked a joint, relevance, you don’t do to jail for smoking a joint That’s a myth Millsy under law its  possible, policed and practiced, nup 

          • Sabine 3.4.2.2.1

            actually if you were caught with a 'joint' it is up to the coppers to either  charge you with possesion or not. 

            Chances are that Mike Hosings would not be charged. Chances are that Hone from down the street would. 

             

            btw, is mike hoskins still a shill for booze? 

      • greywarshark 3.4.3

        Anybody who listens to Mike H or Leighton S or that ilk must be ill and may find good use for some of that budget post.  The wealthy often go south to Ashburn Clinic Dunedin or north at Auckland is the Capri Sanctuary.   No doubt there is government funding for something in these private clinics.

      • AB 3.4.4

        The Husk et al seem way too interested in policing the peccadilloes of their presumed social inferiors.
        So, let’s ban things that make rich white guys like the Husk behave badly towards their fellow citizens – as a starter list: alcohol, private schools, Ferraris, rental properties, ZB, Remuera, and holidays in Tuscany. Feel free to add more.

    • mauī 3.5

      He was actually from the DIA ( Drug Investigators Association),

      "The mission of the Colorado Drug Investigators Association is to unite peace officers and other professionals who share a common interest in drug enforcement"

      Perfect fodder for rabid right wing radio.

    • Andre 3.6

      Ever thought about doing some independent research of your own instead of taking as gospel whatever the husk views through his one (brown) eye?

      Reading through the actual report is mostly a litany of caveats and vague data from which it would be unwise to draw specific conclusions. Such as part of the change in year-to-year numbers of detections of impaired drivers is due to the increased numbers of officers trained to detect impairment by substances other than alcohol. So overall, anyone with an agenda to push can find things they can use to push that agenda within the report.

      But here and there are nuggets that look pretty significant to me that didn't seem to get much attention. Such as the way apprehensions for alcohol impairment by the Colorado State Patrol, Denver Police, and Aurora dropped quite a bit from 2014 (pre marijuana legalisation) to 2017 (post legalization) – see pages 43 and 44 of the report. But before anyone gets too excited about the idea that maybe people looking for a good time are substituting marijuana for alcohol and stoned drivers aren't as dangerous as drunk drivers, the report itself notes

      "It should be noted that a recent study found that the annual changes in overall fatality rate for Colorado  was similar to a group of control states pre‐ and post‐legalization."

    • I feel love 3.7

      The same Hosking who was found out to be being paid by Sky City Casino? Like Hooton & Slater, mouths for hire, the alcohol industry is already known to pay for anti weed stories. Disclaimer, non smoker, non drinker, I just don't need that shit anymore, I just know people gonna do what people gonna do, and the hypocrisy riles me. 

    • Sabine 3.8

      would that be this guy? 

      https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/ray-padilla-colorado-cannabis-expert-slams-legalisation/

      but then there is also this……..:) 

      http://theconversation.com/does-legalizing-marijuana-help-or-harm-americans-weighing-the-statistical-evidence-109402

       

      However, crime has increased in many of the cities where recreational marijuana is legal. Homicides in Seattle, D.C. and Denver – all major cities with legal marijuana – have increased over the past few years. But homicides have also increased in cities without recreational marijuana, such as Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Kansas City.

      ………….

      However, legalized marijuana does seem to have an effect on the justice system. According to FBI crime data, in 2017, there were 659,000 marijuana arrests in the U.S. There were also 1.2 million violent crimes with victims, but only 518,617 arrests for these same violent crimes. This means that there are more than 700,000 victims who have suffered without justice.

      maybe the gentlemen just simply likes his easy arrests to make himself and his mates look good? 

       

      But you are right there are issues, similar to those that use alcohol to exess 

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/03/27/pot-sending-more-people-colorado-hospital-after-weed-legalization/3285728002/

      Car crashes rose 6 percent from 2012 to 2017 in four states that legalized marijuana during that period – Nevada, Colorado, Washington and Oregon – a greater rate than in four comparable states that didn't, the Highway Loss Data Institute found.

      but then……….

      https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/5/18210827/marijuana-traffic-fatality-deaths-transportation-public-health

      Interestingly, the increase was temporary, and rates went back to normal after about a year. Though the study wasn’t designed to explain this result, it could be that legalizing recreational marijuana initially leads to an increase in newer, more inexperienced users, says study co-author Tyler Lane, a post-doc in the School of Public Health and Preventive Medicine at Monash University in Australia.

      This finding is the latest in a series of seemingly back-and-forth studies on the topic. Last October, a study conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and the Highway Loss Data Institute found that crashes are 6 percent higher in states that legalized marijuana compared to four neighboring states where marijuana is not legal. Yet a different study from the American Journal of Public Health found no statistical difference in crash death rates three years after legalization.

       

      and here is a nice study 

       

      https://www.denverpost.com/2018/10/26/colorado-marijuana-impact-report/

      Education

      • Colorado has not experienced an increase in marijuana use among young people, although it was the single most common reason for school expulsions in the 2016-17 school year, the first year it was broken out as its own category.
      • Marijuana also has not impacted graduation rates or dropout rates in Colorado. Graduation rates have increased while dropout rates have decreased since 2012.

      Driving

      • The number of drivers in fatal crashes who tested above the legal limit of THC, marijuana’s active ingredient, decreased to 35 in 2017, down from 52 in 2016.
      • The number of citations for marijuana-only impairment stayed steady between 2014 to 2017 at around 7 percent of all DUI arrests. That’s roughly 350 citations out of nearly 5,000 DUI arrests each year, the report said.

      Arrests

      • Total marijuana arrests dropped by half during a five-year period, decreasing to 6,153 in 2017 from 12,709 in 2012.
      • Marijuana possession arrests — the majority of all marijuana-related arrests — were cut by more than half during the same period, dropping to 5,154 from 11,361.

      Crime

      • Pot grown illegally on public lands — an indicator for the size of the black market — also is on the rise with 80,926 plants seized in 2017, a 73 percent increase in five years.
      • Organized crime cases almost tripled in five years, increasing to 119 in 2017 from 31 in 2012.

      Health

      • Rates of hospitalization with possible marijuana exposures increased steadily from 2000 through 2015.
      • The number of adults who use marijuana increased between 2014 and 2017, with men getting high more often than women and young adults ages 18 to 25 the most frequent users.

      The full study can be found online.

       

      I have no use for 'no gummibears Chloe', but this gentlemen is only stating a truth that suits him the best. Namely that weed is bad, that it is easier to arrest smokers and growers then murderers and such ( a bit like weed vs meth in NZ) and please pretty pretty please don't stop the war against some drugs or else geezers like me would be redundant and obsolete. 

      But unless you will start arguing for the banning of cigarettes (full ban not an increase in taxes 🙂 )  and then a full ban on alcohol (any alcohol for everyone, cause won't no one think of the children) you are a bit of a hypocrite as is the gentlemen from the USof A. 

       

      • alwyn 3.8.1

        Here is another article from the same source, ie the Denver Post. It is not nearly so sanguine as the article you quote.

        https://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/25/colorado-marijuana-traffic-fatalities/

        Some of the things they say are.

        "Marijuana is figuring into more fatal crashes overall. In 2013, drivers tested positive for the drug in about 10 percent of all fatal crashes. By 2016, it was 20 percent."

        They then point out that not all drivers killed in accidents are tested for the drug.

        They also say that 

        "The 2013-16 period saw a 40 percent increase in the number of all drivers involved in fatal crashes in Colorado, from 627 to 880, according to the NHTSA data. Those who tested positive for alcohol in fatal crashes from 2013 to 2015 — figures for 2016 were not available — grew 17 percent, from 129 to 151.

        By contrast, the number of drivers who tested positive for marijuana use jumped 145 percent — from 47 in 2013 to 115 in 2016. During that time, the prevalence of testing drivers for marijuana use did not change appreciably, federal fatal-crash data show."

        Given that it appears that they do not check drivers for Pot if they are above the legal alcohol limit it would appear that the numbers may actually be the same or at least very similar.

        • Sabine 3.8.1.1

          i don't actually dispute anything of what he said, i just provided a few links, 

          and as you can tell if you read all of it, i also posited that if you want to ban a substance because people might use it while driving than just for fairness sake you need to also allow for the total ban of alcohol. 

           

          but just to repeat it 

           

          per the study that i provided a link too 🙂 

          • The number of citations for marijuana-only impairment stayed steady between 2014 to 2017 at around 7 percent of all DUI arrests. That’s roughly 350 citations out of nearly 5,000 DUI arrests each year, the report said.

           

          if we take the numbers provided into account and assume (as you do) that all DUI are tested for both, alcohol and thc, then that leaves still 4650 DUI arrest for alcohol, so we should be banning alcohol, right?  And while we are at it, consider that the opiod crisis in the US stems from over prescription of pain medication we should also ban pain medication. Right? 

          Cause morals, and protecting the children, and being all good n such? Right? Right?

          and just for giggles the study, https://cdpsdocs.state.co.us/ors/docs/reports/2018-SB13-283_Rpt.pdf 

           

          • In Vino 3.8.1.1.1

            Alwyn

            Are you aware that traces of pot remain in the blood for about 6 weeks?

            This means that those figures are worthless: only a tiny proportion of drivers with those traces would have been under active influence. Most had smoked it well over a week before.

            And please try not to be as rude as you usually are when questioned.

            • alwyn 3.8.1.1.1.1

              @In Vino.

              Yes, I am aware that detection of its existence can occur a long time after the use. However the article I linked to says that –

              "Last year, all of the drivers who survived and tested positive for marijuana use had the drug at levels that indicated use within a few hours of being tested".

              Simply testing for existence is not adequate. However providing the test can measure the level, and we can set an upper level for reasonable safety, as we do with alcohol, we should be able to come up with a reliable test on the roads. If, and I don't think it is the case, a dangerously high level of the drug was to persist for a long period I would start getting seriously concerned about legalising its use. Ain't so though, is it?

              "And please try not to be as rude as you usually are when questioned".

              If you look at my responses to questions you will find that I answer in the tone of the question. If I am abused in a question I tend to put abuse in the response. If the question, or comment, on my remarks is worded politely I will be just as polite in the response. I don't get upset because people don't agree with me. I get upset with people who frame their disagreement not in a reasoned way but only as a diatribe. 

              • McFlock

                In 2016, of the 115 drivers in fatal wrecks who tested positive for marijuana use, 71 were found to have Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their blood, indicating use within hours, according to state data. Of those, 63 percent were over 5 nanograms per milliliter, the state’s limit for driving.

                So yeah, some of the testing is overly sensitive for a start.

                "Last year, all of the drivers who survived and tested positive for marijuana use had the drug at levels that indicated use within a few hours of being tested".

                scroll down:

                […] The vast majority of drivers who survived fatal crashes and were tested for cannabinoids showed they had used the drug within hours of testing. In 2016, for example, all 22 of the surviving drivers suspected of marijuana impairment tested positive for levels of Delta-9 THC — and seven of them at levels deemed illegal to drive.

                Big news: people who are suspected of cannabis use are stoned. A third of them too stoned to drive.

                Is it acceptable? Nope. Is it a reason to ban mj from recreational use. Probably not. Unless one also bans alcohol.

                 

                 

                 

          • alwyn 3.8.1.1.2

            @Sabine

            You suggest "assume (as you do) that all DUI are tested for both, alcohol and thc," I didn't actually assume that. I said "it appears that they do not check drivers for Pot if they are above the legal alcohol limit". I said that because the article I linked to said –

            "many police agencies say they don’t pursue cannabinoid tests of a surviving driver whose blood alcohol level is already high enough to charge them with a crime."

            One cannot therefore simply say the the exclusively TLC offences were the only ones where TLC was involved if they only charge for an alcohol offence if both may have been involved.

            I am in favour of legalising pot sales. However I am beginning to worry about it is we do not come up with a means of testing for excess levels in people driving. We can do it for alcohol. Can, and will, we do it for pot?

            At least, in the meantime, we should legalise it immediately as a prescription pain killer.

            • In Vino 3.8.1.1.2.1

              Thank you alwyn for a fair and balanced reply. I myself am not hugely experienced in this area, and find no fault with what you have said since. 

              Except that McFlock quoted instances of TLC of a certain type indicating recent intake…   

              Maybe there are the testing means to allow pot to rise to the same status as we accord to alcohol.  That would probably be better than the status quo.

              One hopes.

            • Sabine 3.8.1.1.2.2

               

               

              simply stated they do a booze test. if someone is under the influence but not drunk it would warrant to do further testing. 

              Which is what i 'assume'. Booze check first, its easy and it is accurate. 

              THC testing is a bit iffy as it stays in the blood / urine for a while, thus can indicate a false positive, i.e. yep he/she smoked …… a week ago.  

              but in saying that i would assume that the testing will get more and more accurate as it happened with booze. 

              https://www.npr.org/2018/08/04/634992695/the-pot-breathalyzer-is-here-maybe

               

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_drug_testing

               

              what gets me about this discussion is the false piety of some that have no issues with the havoc wrecked by alcohol and prescription drugs but still want to sell the war on drug cause ….;.DRUGS! 

              Fact is that Colorado has not burned down, has not turned into a hellhole on earth, the good citizen there still have their guns, god and still vote for Trump. But fwiw, at the end of the day when the gun is cold and unforgiving, Trump is again shitting all over the TV screens they can have a smoke to give them a moment of relaxation and they don't have to fear loosing lifelyhood and freedom. 

              And i would like to see the very same thing here – minus trump shitting all over the world.  

               

            • Grafton Gully 3.8.1.1.2.3

              A "prescription painkiller" with side effects, possibly including impaired male fertility. 

              https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4651943/

              • Sabine

                yes and the same can be said about alcohol, so surely you will crusade to get booze banned cause impaired male fertility. 

                right? 

              • McFlock

                Because there's a shortage of people in the world?

    • KJT 3.9

      So we should ignore world wide evidence about what works, because "Hosking's thinks". An oxymoron.

  4. Peter 4

    If Paul Goldsmith doesn't want people to think he's a simpleton, he's going to have to stop doing interviews like the one on Morning Report after 8.00 where he sets out to show he is.

    • greywarshark 4.1

      What about Peter?   You could round out your quick comment with a couple of words about the subject of the interview.

      • Peter 4.1.2

        Interviewer: "We have to make some sacrifices and if it means seeing a speed camera ahead and slowing down for a minute of two what’s the big deal?”

        PG: “I’ve got no problem having a few more (speed cameras) what I don’t like the idea of is just having thousands of them…”

        • greywarshark 4.1.2.1

          Interesting – I don't want to be under mindless scrutiny all the time for every small driving error I make.    I try to drive right but don't want to be surveilled because people elsewhere are having accidents.    That's the difficulty with that sort of mass program.    Someone suggested putting up many cases at different locations but only a third of them would be used at a time operating, and changing them round between the locations of the cases.    People wouldn’t know which was active. Cunning and practical I thought.
          Edit
          I have an Idea.     Always drop speed approaching a roundabout, to enter it a little slower, so enabling someone who could move into the line of traffic ahead of you time to do so.    That would flow a thousand extra cars through efficiently at heavy traffic times and give you time to check the state of traffic better.   A whole new approach of a bit of courtesy to others and adopting a Road Fraternity attitude, we're all in this together approach, would cut accident rates.

          Another idea.   Would people please keep an eye on the traffic, and at the lights, and when they change be facing forwards watching and ready to go or avoid some shit who tries to make a late pass.   Also if I or some other driver sees you waiting to get into traffic ahead and slows slightly to give you the seconds you need to make the entry, FGS be aware and take the option if all is clear to do so.

          • In Vino 4.1.2.1.1

            Sorry gws – I am utterly frustrated by over-defensive idiots who slow down and all but stop at roundabouts where there is obviously no traffic at all in view. And if they see a vehicle that will arrive in the next 30 seconds (in which time they could have easily passed through with no impedance) they bloody stop and wait 20 seconds so that they can give way.

            Your hope that we could all become synchronised is beyond utopian.

            • greywarshark 4.1.2.1.1.1

              Okay In Vino what about people sitting a driving refresher test every ten years  – actual driving assessed by an instructor for various criteria, and receiving coaching during the test about how to improve.   The test to be every 5 years after 70.   Then expectations wouldn't seem so utopian.  

              From the sounds of it you would agree with the above.   As public transport becomes better some people may like to use that more and not have to pay for the refresher test. 

              And I don't see why there can't be cars or small shuttle routes feeding the bus routes that can be phoned with various 'daisy loops' or some such catchy name that you phone and order one for the route required and find when there is one running.

              Price for one a maximum of so much, just covering costs, and that reduced for everyone else who shares that trip.

              I don't think that is utopian.   With organisation it is doable.   And will get some of those hesitant people off the road.  Or after the refresher test they will be more confident in using their judgment.

              • In Vino

                Yes, largely agree. But it is utopian because NZ is a country with a small-minded regime that never spends money on the sort of things you suggest. If only..

                I would like the testing regime you propose. The Road Code gives perfect instructions on how to signal at roundabouts to make them run more efficiently. But in my experience nearly half our drivers fail to give the correct signals, either because they have never understood the Road Code, or because they just love making silly signals.

                I do like to vent spleen!

  5. Sacha 5

    TVNZ's breakfast show suggesting Shane Jones is up for a promotion. What's the bet he takes one of Twyford's portfolios?

    • alwyn 5.1

      Was that the bit where they put the comedians on the show? Replace Phil with Shane? That really would be replacing the dumb with the dumber. Still I suppose they could give it to Kelvin Davis. I guess he would complete the trifecta as he must count as being the dumbest.

  6. Tiger Mountain 6

    In light of the “final appeal” for Kim Dotcom:
    A lot of memories relating to Mr Dotcom alright. Such as, if the bloody Labour Party had not put all sorts of resources into Te Tai Tokerau, that other Labour electorate candidates were starved of, Hone and Laila Harre would likely have made it as MPs and recent political history could have been different. All the parliamentary parties actually, including the Greens, united against Internet Mana. A party with innovative membership led policy creation.

    I still remember the apology from Key to Kim, and the famous “why are you turning red Prime Minister” gibe.

    Still, despite such “what ifs” illegal State snooping was exposed, and Keys duplicity with Warners etc. will go down in ignominy. Future historians will be going WTF were New Zealanders thinking? over this corrupt chapter in NZ political history.

    All the best to Kim in this, but sadly the NZ judicial system which I had thought was reasonably independent, seems bent in his case. Orders from above must have prevailed with some of the decisions made against him. Andrew Little seems in thrall to the yanks at the moment, so no reprieve should be expected from that quarter.

    • Gabby 6.1

      Andy's all about the establishment.

    • gsays 6.2

      Well said TM.

      "Still, despite such “what ifs” illegal State snooping was exposed, and Keys duplicity with Warners etc. will go down in ignominy. Future historians will be going WTF were New Zealanders thinking? over this corrupt chapter in NZ political history."

      That wee era had a feel of potential about it.

      It seemed to be the most arrogant of times from the Nats.

      Unfortunately I fear you are correct about Little.

  7. swordfish 7

    Latest Colmar Brunton:

    (Social Issues)

    “Would you consider voting for a party with Christian or conservative values at the 2020 General Election?”

    Yes 33%

    No 58%

    DK / Refused 8%

     

    Above Average "Yes"

    Pasifika 55% … Asian 51% … Age 18-29 ..43%

     

    Above Average "No"

    Green voters 82% … Household Income 150k + … 74% … Reside Bay of Plenty 72% … Age 60-69 .. 69% … NZ Europeans .. 64%

    _________________________________________________________________________

    "Do you think the Government should continue with the KiwiBuild scheme?”

    Yes … 60%

    No … 34% 

    DK… 5%

     

    Above Average "Yes"

    Pasifika  81% … Labour voters  80% …  Age 18-29 … 80% … Maori  78% … Household Income under 30k … 70%

     

    Above Average "No"

    National voters 58% … Reside Otago / Southland  50% … Household Income 150k + … 48% … Age 40-49 … 44% … Household Income 100-150k … 43% … NZ Europeans  40%

    _______________________________________________________________________

    "At this stage, do you think you will vote for cannabis to be legalised, or for cannabis to remain illegal?”

    Legalise cannabis … 39%

    Remain illegal … 52%

    Will not vote … 1%

    Don’t know / refused … 8%

     

    Above Average "Legalise cannabis"

    Green voters 86% … Men aged 18-34 … 65% … Women aged 18-34 … 51% … Labour voters … 49%

     

    Above Average "Remain illegal"

    Men aged 55+ … 74% … National voters 69% … Women aged 55+ … 62%

    (Particularly wide chasm not only between Greens & Nats but also between Older & Younger Men)

     

    • greywarshark 7.1

      Thanks swordfish good info to know.

    • Muttonbird 7.2

      I've got a stats question for you Swordfish.

      If Simon Bridges' preferred PM rating is now at 4.2% among all voters, what percentage of National voters approve of him?

      Assuming we give National a generous 40%, my crude solution is 4.2/0.4 = 10.5%

      • mac1 7.2.1

        Probably less because anecdotally I hear of anti-National people who vote for Simon Bridges as being their preferred PM to keep him as an ineffectual Leader of the Opposition.

        On my walk up the hill yesterday my mate and I discussed opinion polls. He believes that many people lie in these polls. He wondered whether a poll should be taken as to whether people lie their answers in polls.

        He quoted Nixon as saying that people lie all the time. I responded by asking whether that statement applied to Nixon's own comment. Would people who lie in polls lie about their own lying in polls? Such a poll should receive a 100% 'I never lie" response. 

      • swordfish 7.2.2

         
        Muttonbird

        what percentage of National voters approve of Bridges?

         
        First thing is to ensure we're comparing apples with apples.

        Both Colmar Brunton and Reid Research exclude the Don't Knows from the Party Vote ratings, but include them in the Preferred PM results. (And rightly so, in my opinion. In stark contrast, the now defunct Herald-DigiPoll used to exclude the often hefty number of Don't Knows from the PM results without telling anyone. As a consequence you had these ludicrous headlines suggesting two thirds to three quarters of New Zealanders preferred Key as PM. It was quite outrageous).

         
        So to compare like with like … you need to re-calculate the Party Vote results on the basis of the entire sample. I've only done this for the Colmar Brunton … not least because they're much more open about making their methodology transparent. 

         
        This re-calculation takes National from 44% down to a little under 38% and Labour from 42% to a little over 36% (that, in other words, is the proportion of the entire sample that currently support the two Major Parties). 

         
        By my calculations, then, (and making the pretty major assumption that everyone choosing one of the National Party politicians as Preferred PM is an intending National voter) we get:

         
        Collins = preferred as PM by 16% of Nats

        Bridges = preferred as PM by 13% of Nats

        Various Other Nat politicians (ranging from Adams, Mitchell & Bennett through to former politicians like Key & English) = collectively preferred as PM by 9% of Nats 
         
        So around 38% of Nats are stating a preference for a National politician (keeping that major assumption in mind) and the other 62% are either in the Don't Know category (almost certainly the majority) or they're choosing someone from another Party.

         

        The interesting question: Is Ardern currently the most preferred PM of National voters ?
         
        I think it's more than possible that she is. 

         
        If you make what I think is an entirely reasonable assumption that:

        (1) perhaps 90% of Labour voters chose Ardern & the other 10% are either in the Don't Know category or prefer someone else  … and that

        (2) Green voters are splitting perhaps 85% Ardern / 15% Shaw, Swarbrick, Don't Know & Other .. and, on top of that …

        (3) you factor in all the other variables (like estimating the proportion of TOP, Maori Party & New Conservative supporters choosing various options) …

        … then it's quite plausible that Ardern is being chosen by around 17, 18, 19% of intending National voters. Which, of course, would make her the most popular choice as PM by the Blue Team.

         
        Even if we were more cautious and assumed that just say 6% of Lab voters & 10% of Green voters were choosing options other than Ardern (like the various other Labour politicians who feature, like Winston, like Shaw & Swarbrick) … even then that would still put her marginally ahead of Bridges (but slightly behind Collins) among intending National voters.

         
        But I think there's a very real chance she's currently the most popular choice among Nats.

    • ianmac 7.3

      We older folk are often believed to prefer sticking to the status quo and the  figures above reinforce that view. I must be an outlier.

      It does suggest that National voters and older people hate change. Therefore are National voters older people?

      • swordfish 7.3.1

        ianmac

        That's certainly true in the UK … the older the age group / the greater the support for the Tories (& various Brexit vehicles) & the weaker the support for Labour. Seems to be a similar generation gap in Australian Federal Elections & US Presidential Elections.

        In New Zealand, it would be true to say that the under 35s are significantly more likely to vote for the Left Parties than the over 35s. But the evidence (such as it is) seems to be a little ambiguous as to whether it's Older voters or the broad Middle Age who comprise National's core support-base.

        But here's an interesting facet that bears thinking about. A whole series of polls and surveys over recent years (carried out in various Anglosphere countries, including one in New Zealand … together with the separate New Zealand Election Study data) suggest that while Youngsters tend toward voting Left … they also tend to be less social democratic in their core beliefs … less community-minded, less empathetic on aspects of the welfare state and so on. Which raises the possibility that an unusually large proportion may be voting Left purely out of self-interest and hence may be even more likely than previous generations to grow politically conservative as they age.

        Something for the Left to think about.

        • greywarshark 7.3.1.1

          The traits of the young shown from the study are those that have been inculcated under the hegemony of neo liberalism.    As this has been triumphant in NZ since 1984, those born since 1980 would have been affected by it for 39 years.   It is a materialistic cult that has replaced actual religion, with a set of beliefs meant to ensure prosperity and good living standards.  

          There is no emphasis on respecting community and others, and a disrespect for others and fairness and welfare to all, beyond what is needed by one's own group.   Mixing in community is because a group can produce activities and outcomes that enhance the individual's life.    This even affects families.  I have noticed at family gatherings to split into the different family lines, and not have interest or communication with other members, ties are breaking down it seems more than in 20th century.

          Neo lib's intention is to lead people to consider themselves first;  to enhance selfishness.    Altruism is derided.   Think Ayn Rand's The Virtue of Selfishness.

          Ayn Rand herself and some accolytes.



  8. Observer Tokoroa 8

    A Note to the Speaker of the House

    Mr Speaker, The Right Honourable Mr Trevor Mallard

    You may not have noticed that there is a Member of Parliament who tries to bog you down every time he gets a glimpse of you. The Person is an unusual individual, in that he picks little fragants of useless information and throws them around Parliament as if Parliament were a hosted load of invisible insects.

    He does this same thing in front of the Media too.  Not that the media knows what an insect has to do with Politics.

    Mr Simon Bridges has a vast variety of Ticks. He uses them to make sure Mr Speaker, that you do not understand what the Hell he is saying. Ticks crawl over his thought; apparently, and over his facial expressions, leading him up to where he has forgotten what he thought he wanted to say.

    He comes out 27 times a day with this Tick: "Does Sheee still say this ?" (It is not a nice way to refer to his Wife- is it Mr Speaker ?  or is it Jacinda he is scrubbing up for whatever? )

    I Beg you Mr Speaker, to make our Parliament a true and Honest Chamber. I beg you to release Mr Bridges from his tiresome disabilities; and ask him to clean up any other Ticks that he and National may still have in their threadbare Caucus.

    Be Merciful to us all Mr Speaker !  Thank You

     

    • greywarshark 8.1

      Observer Tokoroa  –  Mr Mallard will enjoy your plea and hopefully follow up on your excellent suggestions.   all in the Pest Control Officersplease Mr Speaker.

    • Jimmy 8.2

      OT you once again are marginalising those like my son who have a disability with comments like that. He has Asperger’s and has a number of "ticks" and some speech issues. Why don't you spend some of your time helping with solutions for real issues instead of name calling etc…The current mob in Government and the opposition do enough of that for all of us including the Speaker. Wait for the childish crap from OT……….

       

      • Gabby 8.2.1

        Are you Slick Britches' dad jimby?

        • I feel love 8.2.1.1

          Jimmy stalks OT (& dope pun intended)'

          • Jimmy 8.2.1.1.1

            Only the last couple of days while he (OT) has fallen off the wagon as his comments have "pretty out there". Hopefully he gets the help he needs…lol

            I comment very rarely, but I am a daily reader and have been for a number of years, as coming here is the best cure for breaking an echo chamber mentality of just sitting on a Left/Right spectrum (in relation to blog sites). 

        • Jimmy 8.2.1.2

          LOL, thank God No!

          Just don't like the some of the vitriol that spews out here on TS, but OT is just plain awful and not constructive at all, mind you he is not the only one. But for a parent who has spent 10 years dealing with a child with a disability (albeit minor) hearing  OT making fun of SB's lisp or ticks just pisses me off. By all means go for gold if you'all wanna make fun of those with disabilities,  but you wont see me do it. Next thing OT will call call my son retarded and Gabby will think that's fine..

      • Observer Tokoroa 8.2.2

        Hi Jimmy

        I dislike National Politicians calling there wives  Sheee.  Calling women Sheee.

        For women are the persons who bring us into this World .

        At no point did I say you or your son was was  guilty of  bad treatment of Women

        I also dislike the word Bitch.

        I certainly wish you and your son Well.  And I would like to add that I have never met a perfect Man or Woman.  Some of the best have had setbacks – and I admire them most.

        Regards OT

         

         

         

  9. Gosman 9

    Venezuela is getting deeper and deeper in to the economic mire…

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/12/venezuela-releases-new-bank-notes-bolivars-hyperinflation

     

     

  10. greywarshark 10

    I hope that everyone who plays ping-pong with bewildered realises that they have taken the time to Not consider anything important about NZ and the world.   

    He has honed his skills and got the psychology of the site and the appetite for trivia that we all have, and is wielding this morning a very effective control over everyone's minds away from the part of the brain that is deliberative and analytical and serious.   I'll just look up on wikipedia to see where that is –  No – I;ll look up mind (as in changed as we all have to do) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind
    https://www.livescience.com/22570-decisions-control-frontal-lobe.html
    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/neurology_neurosurgery/centers_clinics/brain_tumor/about-brain-tumors/how-the-brain-works.html

    Some trivia to start the day :

    Singing Home, home in the Brain,
    Where the trolls and the misanthropes play,
    Where seldom is heard,
    A constructive word,
    And the skies are unclear all the day.

    • ianmac 10.1

      A bewildered sobbing is heard offstage right.

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        Well we must admit that it all brings out the creative side of us – pomes and stuff.

      • mac1 10.1.2

        I think more people than just our fellow commenter bewildered are sobbing offstage right. 

    • Bewildered 10.2

      Dam it snapped 😊

      To be fair sharky I do like to provoke a bit but always supported by a point , some people are so easily wound up and righteous in their world view hence can’t tolerate anything to the contrary Not you of course 👍 Note I also try not to be nasty

  11. greywarshark 11

    Interesting news this morning Radionz.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391929/climate-emergency-declarations-councils-warned-to-proceed-with-caution

    The urgency is such that determined and committed Councils are kick-starting themselves into the fray without further ado.    They will be spending much time working out their spending for the tasks and prioritising and calling for public input and physical assistance.  But they have started and that's excellent.   Not further time-wasting with drawn-out arguments with deniers of being alive.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391914/more-wells-with-nitrate-levels-above-safe-standard-forest-and-bird

    I'll have to follow up on my family as there is a suspicion that we may be genetically likely to develop colo-rectal cancer.    Something to worry about, we are becoming inured to constant problems – I think we will start to worry if we don't hear about the latest problem  every day – did we miss the report?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391925/ex-employee-of-chorus-subcontractor-felt-intimidating-coercive-and-inappropriate-behaviour

    We have become a nation of constant sleazy practices, which we somehow absorb and condone, 'Oh that's awful.   It shouldn't happen.   That's not us.' And after expressing our distaste – off we go about our affairs unless it is a show-stopper and we turn out to emote.   That's what neo lib, free market policy has done to us.    Economists, shaping our society socially and financially, act unwisely and even murderously; the nation seems to be becoming amoral at heart in the human communal and spiritual sense.    So the human pain from the fallout of bad behaviour from those operating for private greed is a regular refrain to us.   Bring in the Daleks, point the finger, chant Exploit, Exploit, Exploit and again Exclude, Exclude, Exclude, and Edit, edit, edit.

  12. Anne 12

    An odd story associated with the 'hack' debacle emerged yesterday. Apart form a Herald article, there appears to be little comment this morning which seems a bit strange.

    Summary:

    Bridges is claiming several Five Eyes partners contacted the GCSB and expressed concern over the "hacking" story.  

    A spokeswoman for Bridges told the Herald there were "multiple reliable sources" for the information, but she would not reveal which Five Eye partners had expressed this concern.

    GCSB Director, Hampden told the Herald they were just normal operational contacts and "no partner had expressed concern". The 'hack' story was mentioned and one or two partners had offered assistance should it be needed but that was all. He offered this explanation to “bring about clarity” to the issue.

    Yesterday during QT, Bridges asked Deputy PM, Peters if the government had been notified about the Five Eye partner concerns and if so, when were they notified?  Peters declined to answer on the grounds it was the first he had heard of the matter.  At that point, Bridges of course tried to claim that he and other ministers were being left out of the loop etc. etc.

    Hampden was contacted by the Herald and he clarified these contacts are operational matters and therefore ministers do not get briefed on them.

    So:

    Who supplied Bridges/National with this information? It doesn't appear to have come  from a GCSB briefing.

    I presume the motivation behind the story was to perpetuate the myth the government is in disarray and their management is piss poor and can't be trusted. But should it not be a major news story that some GCSB/Foreign Affairs insiders would appear to be leaking information to the National Party?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12239888

    • Macro 12.1

      Who supplied Bridges/National with this information? It doesn't appear to have come  from a normal GCSB briefing.

      Yes indeed. That would appear to be the case. How did Bridges come to be in possession of such information? Has he been rifling through the GCSB website as well? 

    • Who supplied Bridges/National with this information?

      Maybe no-one. We know that Bridges considers carrying out data breaches of government agencies to be "entirely appropriate," so this could just be another example of National finding a way to get unauthorised access to information, this time from the GCSB.

      • Anne 12.2.1

        Yep. It crossed my mind but I assumed the GCSB would have ultra sophisticated security measures in place. Maybe I'm wrong. 😯

        After all, Bridges’ spokeswoman did say their info. came from a number of “reliable sources” so maybe they have been data breaching more than one government agency. 😯 😯

    • Gabby 12.3

      Hootie Blowhard? Jason Evil? Simy Lush?

  13. Rosemary McDonald 14

    Former Green Party MP David Clendon draws aside the curtain concealing possible huge costs to Far North ratepayers for Kerikeri commercial development.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503402&objectid=12240070

    First, a quick lesson in the dark art of economics. Economists talk about 'externalities,' which are generally seen to be a bad thing. An externality occurs when someone undertakes an activity that generates a profit, but is able to offload, or 'externalise,' some of the costs of that activity on to other people who get no share of the profit.

    We could well see this situation occurring locally, if FNDC grants the initial resource consent application from Arvida Group, who want to establish a retirement village in Hall Rd, Kerikeri, with 200 houses and a 90-bed care facility. Only a handful of households are being allowed to comment under a limited notification process, despite the fact that the project could impose costs on all FNDC ratepayers.

    (bold mine)

    This 'limited notification' is a 'thing' in the Far North where populations can be sparse.  Restricting notification to a limited radius considerably reduces possible submitters…as happened in the water consent application process for the avocado expansion. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=12068961

    There is little appetite for such tactics in the North, and well done Clendon for shedding some light.

  14. Muttonbird 15

    I'll just paint a picture of my experience with Ryan Bridge.

    I once happened to attend the filming of an episode of Family Feud All Stars.

    Ryan Bridge was one of the contestants.

    Perhaps it was nerves (hard to believe with that ego), but he came across as extremely stupid and slow of thought, offering very few suggestions and often repeating those others had offered. He literally could not think for himself.

    So much so his team-mates were visibly embarrassed for him.

    These tabloid broadcasters are not paid to be intelligent, thoughtful and reasonable. They are paid to have objectionable opinions. Step on up, Ryan Bridge.

  15. Muttonbird 16

    Anyone else think this is more than a little creepy, and frankly, alarming? Given the propensity for right wing incel types to resort to violence, this anonymous pig thing and the wording of the statement, "I am everywhere. I am somewhere. I am no where. I am Porky the Waste-hater", makes me nervous.

    • McFlock 16.1

      Only a fucking tory would buy a pig suit to complain about waste. And it's the taxavoiders' union cabal, so whomever is wearing the outfit is probably getting paid.

    • Stuart Munro. 16.2

      It is disturbing on the face of it, that our opposition is so hateful that this kind of infantile attack is their response to the least whiff of decent government.

      But then we realize just how comprehensively they have shot themselves in the foot, by choosing a pig, the archetypal personification of greed, as their ill-will ambassador.

      If the greedy pigs don't like it, it's halfway to being good policy.

  16. francesca 17

    Hoping this is not going to trigger anyone

    Gordon Campbell takes a critical look at our military spending spree, and finds the spin unconvincing

    http://werewolf.co.nz/2019/06/gordon-campbell-on-the-war-fighting-purposes-of-our-massive-spend-up-on-defence/

    • Exkiwiforces 17.1

      Sorry for the long rant, but it had to be said as some people have forgotten what happen 19yrs ago when over a 1/4 to 1/3 of the NZDF and ADF was Deployed Timor-Leste in Septmeber 1999 under INTERFET. 

      In the second week of September of this year will be the 20th Anniversary of the liberation of Timor-Leste by the INTERFET Forces as your beloved Useless Nations who couldn't keep the Peace, just avoided a rig election just like what happen in West Papua in the early 60's and let alone protect the countless people of Timor-Leste. When those didn't manage to escape  to the hills as the UN told them you would be protect them after the election for independence from Indonesia, the male population were shot, beaten, burned to death before they dug their own gave or were to dispose at sea or water wells (should've seen the clothes, shoes, handbags and wallets etc along the shoreline around Dili and it was the same around Timor-Leste) the women folk and young kids both boys and girls were repeatedly rape/ gang rape, beaten to death burned to death before they dug their own gave or were to dispose at sea or water wells.

       My cousin who then in the under manned, under equip/ resourced NZDF Task Force after a decade of cuts, was in NZ Army as a sparkly and had his Dive ticket was lower into these wells when the Medics couldn't work why the bacterial count was off the clock so they sent him down the wells along with RAN CD's and RNZN CD's to fish out the bodies. As a young 25yr old who left his beloved NZ Army in Apr 98 at disgust at the way public (looking at you) and the pollies that treated the NZDF with utter contempt and then joined the RAAF Airfield Defence Guards on the 8Apr 99 (Airforce Infantry) who had just finish ADG Basic Cse two wks early. We were patrolling the Dili Airport trying to protect the last of the remaining population from the TNI and Militia from further Human Right Abuses, supporting the Grunts from 2RAR and the good old reliable Gurkhas who didn't muck around with the TNI and their cronies. Though out  my tour first tour of ET I was digging up bodies who burnt bounded by wire, clearing the near by TNI/ Police barracks where the cells had blood stains and other bullet holes in the walls with two big rooms stack high UN voting cards which was an attempt to rig the vote, and just to top that off the TNI Police turned up (about  30-40 of the wankers) armed to the teeth who thought if was idea to have a crack at our 10man section. This poster when ordered by sec'o move to the left flank on what was the parade ground and load your M79 with a gold top 40mm HE and break open your LAW 66mm prepare fire it…. and what happen next i'll leave that up to you to work out since you seem to be a SME on Peacekeeping.

      Half our SQN was on standby to support the RNZAF in case the RNZAF No2 SQN (Ozzie base A4 Skyhawks deploy to Baccua  Airport (Their movement order was cancel as the advance party got to RAAF Tindal much to the disgust of Oz Pollies and senior officers of the ADF at the time) as the TNI were playing silly buggers in the Air-Sea Gap and on the border with the Oz and Kiwi (NZ Batt1)Infantry Battalions as they were the only capable Infantry Battalions that knew how operate in the Jungle. Latter on in the piece we were again put on standby to head back to Baccua as the Kiwi Frigate the grand old lady the Type 12 HMNZS Canterbury detected 1 possibly 2 Type 209 Subs from the TNI Navy inside the ET's 12 mile limit over a 4-5 day period which nearly seen her open fire on the Sub a few times and almost seen the rapid deployment of both Oz and Kiwi P3's. But thanks to 5E's the Yanks told the TNI to piss off or the next time the Oz and the Kiwis would open fire.

      When NZ Batt2 deployed 8mths later instead of the usual 6mths, as the 2nd/1st and the 3LFG as it was known back then (I was a part of the 3LFG/Bde Recon SQN)  was undermanned, had bugger all training under its belt prior to Batt1 deploying ET, the whole of 3LFG was very much run down in the 90's due to the cuts to defence. To bring Batt2 up to speed the TF unit's within the Sth Island were up and a lot of the SEA Vets (Malaya, Borneo and Vietnam etc) were recalled to the colours to boost the Regional Training Unit (3RTU) in a crash cse in Jungle Warfare up Springs Junction Way. I was home for the farewall parade of Batt2 and caught with the lads from NZ Scots, Lenny (Pvte L Manning) from my old Cav days when he was in WAI/WEC SQN before he went over the Grunts in B Coy 2nd/1st and the old boys from 3RTU. The old boys down at the old RSA in ChCh after the parade said to me over a very quite beer "they are not ready for deployment, but the CO had has hand forced by the Beehive and Army HQ at the time, and what still haunts me as they also forewarned that someone will get Killed in Action because of the actions of you and the Pollies wanting and always cutting the Defence the Bugdet.  

      This DCP release by Ronnie two days ago is what the NZDF should've always been minus the ACF post cold war, and heck even my great uncle (ex 3NZ Div) who open up to me after I had my bit. Said our Military should've been  base around the experience of the RNZN, RNZAF and NZ Army in the Sth Pacific not the Middle East Post WW2 but Sth Pacific and SEA regions. Like me, Old uncle Nev has a soft spot the Sth Pacific Countries incl ET and West Papua (both of us agreed that dying to protect the SP Countries incl ET West Papua is a worthy casue) , the Great Sth Ocean and the long term effects of CC, and if he was alive to today he would say about bloody time you mogels. If was still fit for active duty I would serious look at signing back up again in the NZDF like I almost came home in 06 when my old mate Goff start to sort the shit fight out that Mark Burton left the Defence portfolio in.

      As you can see I can talk the talk and walk the walk and this has come at price personally, see what the worst in humans can to each other, have a mate KIA due people like you and pollies who think they an awful more on PeaceKeeping/ Peace Enforcement ops but aren't prepare to listen to the Men and Women of NZDF or to ex Veterans (what was old David L, H Clarke and Keith Locke saying on us when counter their POV?) Peacekeeping/ PeaceEnforcement  isn't all Beer's and Skittles to some but an awful lot of guts, brains, balls, buff and be prepare use lethal force when needed to which make the average Joe here and else like the TDB shit themselves. 

      For the Record I was Medical Discharged on the 3rd of Jul 18 for PTSD (now with complex PTSD), Major Disorder and Anxiety.

      My daily meds.

      300mg of Venlafaxine (PTSD)

      50mg Quetiapine (to control my anger at every tom, dick and harry)

      40mg Esomeprazole (because of the pain meds I've taken over the last 19yrs to stay fit and stay on top of my game IOT be ready to go again)

      30mg Mirtazapine ( PTSD) and,

      6mg Minipress (For my Nightmares from Peacekeeping/ Peace Enforcement)

      If I (including my 2RARmate from ET and most ET veterans) was asked to go into West Papua and do what I/ we did in ET during INTERFET? Unlike you, we would all say when's H Hour Boss. Yes I would do all over again.

      And to I my late Grandmother (Rosa Beaurepaire/ nee Balderstone) thank god you never knew the real story of ET and see the real effects of me and your nephew after ET and never thought she would ever see members of her family deploy for a Warlike as WW2 a enough in her books or that her niece and nephew (the one that went to ET) almost went to the Davie Jones locker last yr or the yr before with old Ronnie and Ms Sage were onboard when their OPV in  the Deep Sth Ocean almost capsize and would've sunk with all hands after it was by 2 rogue waves. That was a CC event folks and its going to get even worst in the Sth Ocean. 

      • RedLogix 17.1.1

        I'd guessed something like that, humbling to read it though.

      • Ad 17.1.2

        Thankyou for protecting those people. 

        Thankyou for serving in our military. 

        Thanks also for coming on this site and giving the armchair peaceniks a good and knowledgeable serve. 

        I'm kinda pleased to have Ron Mark as a Minister, able to talk coherently about why we need to support our Defence and their Defence equipment. Even though he's not from my Party he's competent and knows what he's talking about. 

        I would like to see a big chunk of our military permanently stationed in Darwin so that we look and act as property participants with Australia whenever there are emergencies to face.

        Thanks again for the brutally honest story and of the suffering that this has caused you. Well told Sir.

         

        • RedLogix 17.1.2.1

          +1

          • Anne 17.1.2.1.1

            ditto.

            I spent nearly 5 years working on an Air Force base and I saw first hand the often unacknowledged work that the Defence Force does.

            I was there for Cyclone Bola and saw the work that went on 24/7 for weeks on end carrying soldiers and equipment including machinery to and from the areas affected.

            I saw the almost continuous night and day searches for missing yachts in an area stretching from South East Pacific regions through to the South West Pacific waters.

            I saw planes loaded up with food and personnel flying backwards and forwards to tropical cyclone wrecked Pacific Islands.

            And I saw soldiers leaving for peace keeping missions around the world.

            That was 25 plus years ago but my experiences on that base left me with a huge respect for what our armed services do.

            They did slip up over the story told by Hager and Stephenson in their book "Hit and Run". I hope one day D.F. leaders will concede some very serious mistakes were made on that occasion, and deliver a proper apology to those affected. Just because other nations also made the same mistakes is no reason to hide behind a wall of denial and silence.

            • greywarshark 17.1.2.1.1.1

              Perhaps we could hear talks on their deployments and then we would understand better and they wouldn't be so defensive with the people at home.    It is easy to sit at home and think of lovely higher thoughts.    A good antidote to that is to regularly buy some second hand books about the various wars but especially the two World Wars, and particularly about the on the ground memories and the Resistance and how it is for those who get locked up before during and after the war.    They were up against cold reality and the way that they persevered and tried to hold on to their humanity is amazing.     I have been reading about the Dutch and what they managed to do to save Jewish people and were locked up themselves though not exterminated.   And there were the camps where you worked till you were free – by death.

              Peace champions like the Archibald Baxter protest and others were also very brave and determined.    They and their family suffered for being staunchly against any sort of collaboration with their own country's war effort.

        • SPC 17.1.2.2

          The priority would be forward storage of equipment – so useful for training ops.  

        • Exkiwiforces 17.1.2.3

          Leave the Darwin to the Yanks and actually Fiji would make the ideal Forward Operating Base and NZDF training base for Sth Pacific nations. With a possibly detachment at the soon reopened/ rebuilt Manus Island Naval Base.

          Sth Pacific and the Sth Ocean should the principle Centre Of Gravity as CC slowly effects both regions. Some hard decisions need  to made IRT's the Policing of the Tasman Sea with one decision closing it all oversea fishing nations/ companies?

      • In Vino 17.1.3

        Respect, EKf

        You seem to have learned gloom and cynicism a much harder way than the rest of us. 

        Head screwed on, though. I like the way you would do it again in West Papua.

        I suspect that at the time our pollies and people thought no dangerous threat could exist in East Timor, and probably didn't even know where it was…

      • gsays 17.1.4

        Thanks for yr contribution ekf, here on TS and during yr service.

         

      • Exkiwiforces 17.1.5

        Dear Comrade's thank you for your kind words and my apologies for me lack of grammar and not going back over the my post before I hit the send button. But I was so pissed off that people from either side of the political spectrum have forgotten what happen in September 99 and all the good work we as nation has done in the Sth Pacific Region and in the Sth Ocean since we become a follow Traveller of that knuckle head (sorry to all the Fighter Jocks/ pilots) Bush jr.

        We need to remove our self from the Middle East Region as yesterdays World Peace Index (I use to write up a brief for my Security Boss and brief the other section heads via vid con on the WPI and in conjunction with CC trends in the Asia/ Pacific Region which were class as Secret, but you don't have to Einstein to work out the long terms trends) that I posted makes for some distressing reading for our Asia/Pacific partner nations IRT CC.

         Now we can plan for the easy option like few here want to Francesca, like old mate Trots, Don Franks (which I have some time for btw), old mate from scoop and no doubt Locke and his follow travellers, and the lunatics from the right who regard CC as a non a event.

        Or we look at what old Shaw and Ronnie are doing atm?

        When Ronnie presented his DCP he give us a few options at to maintain an independent Defence policy at the bare minimum cost too the NZ taxpayer. Base on Most Likely Course Action when we include the known effects CC atm and the Most Dangerous Course of Action aka when the whole thing goes to shit in the Asia/ Pacific Region. Then  at that point we all need to make a very hard decision at which tent to jump in there are only 3 options or we take the easy option which some want to do and then we have pay catch like what the NZDF did in 99 and prior to WW1 and WW2.

        I not like spending a lot on defence either way but I see it as an insurance policy and a only lunatic. idiot or a tight ass won't have insurance policy. But looking a current trends and reading the latest WPI makes for some grim reading. As Anne has pointed out Bola back in 87 when the NZDF had more manpower and equipment in those days before 1991, and with those weather events last year on the West Coast which looks to be a repeat this year base on current data that I've seen so far is going to push the NZDF, CD and along with other government agencies to the max before we add in other scenarios from MLCOA's to MDCOA's and god only knows what else into the future. Some of those 70's-80's Sci Fi movies of about CC look quite realistic now. 

        As we say the Military planning and operations planning business, plan for worst case scenario and hope for the Most likely Course Action aka best case scenario. ie a half ass plan is better than no plan as no plan survives first contact enemy. But I don't think the Von Moltke the elder had consider CC in has planning apart from local weather events in the 1800's.  

         

    • Exkiwiforces 17.2

      Here's another one on why the Hec's need to be replace after 50 odd yrs of service and they should've be replace in the early 2000's when we had an option for 8 J models on the back of the Aussie order. Guess who didn't hit the go button on that one? 

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113455852/entire-air-force-fleet-of-c130-hercules-grounded-after-breakdown

      Lucky there were no earthquakes etc in NZ or a Sth Pacific requiring assistance today.

      • Ad 17.2.1

        Ron Mark sure pressed the point home on RNZ about the political failure to face this funding issue over many political terms.

      • greywarshark 17.2.2

        Yes heard that about the planes.   Another group of people to show respect for – the maintenance people.   That's being in a cleft stick as they say, while they could be repaired the armchair leaders would dilly and dally about ordering more, though we were in a rock-star economy. Not to keep them in tip toip condition would be to lose defence forces people to nasty accidents.

        Thanks for the extensive comment.   That would have taken a long time.  The wishes of peaceniks are understandable, but there is a time when things are too far gone.   And it gets pretty bad.
         

        • Exkiwiforces 17.2.2.1

          My uncle bill who was Av tech in ACF to the rank of FSGT can tell a few stories on maintaining  the A4's the old Strikemasters (Bunty's) and the 399C Macchics which were new aircraft but thanks  to the tight ass pollies and the Neo Con/ Lib vandals in the Treasury in the 90's. On how they did managed to maintain and sustain Air Ops in order support GOTD defence outputs the early 80's until 2001 when ACF was disbanded. Let say Dick Smiths, Jaycars and few other companies both aviation and non aviation did a roaring trade to DIY test benches made by the lads on theSQN's and Base Avionics SQN.    

  17. ianmac 18

    Paula Bennett yesterday asked to table a letter from the State Services head. It was tabled. She said it would be used to further question the Government today. Presumably because Robertson was claiming that he could not answer because an Enquiry was underway.

    Note Bennett is not down for question asking today, though Amy Adams is. Mmmm… 

  18. Peter 19

    Amy Adams was all upset in the House today about the ethics of Grant Robertson. Robertson should ask her for advice about getting professional help in to assist him in that area. 

    I'm sure she'll be able to give him Jason Ede's address.

  19. Ed1 20

    The "Taxpayers Union" is getting excited about a donation to some part of the Clinton Foundation.  https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/clinton_foundation_2018-19

    This seems to be controversial to a number of people, as it was when the previous government made similar donations. It may now be meeting a commitment for annual contributions made by the previous government, but I would hope not; I prefer to think that this is a donation that was carefully considered by Foreign Affairs, who have assessed that it is worthwhile. I don't know what the money is to be spent on, but I do recall hearing that  the Clinton Foundation was a way of getting assistance for contraception or other 'controversial' projects that had been banned by the Trump regime. For spending of our limited aid budget to be criticised by the Taxpayer Union may be an indication that it is worthwhile, but to also have criticism from Labour supporters on Facebook may indicate that more than just the Taxpayer Union don't know what they are talking about.

  20. Gabby 21

    Didn't Sirponyboy's lot donate to that foundation?

  21. mary_a 22

    During Q&A time in Parliament, I'm finding Simon Bridges body language intriguing!

    During the whole time he is on his feet firing off questions at either the PM or DPM, he continually buttons and unbuttons his jacket time and time again! I have only picked up on it recently. There has to be some reason for Si's habit when questioning the above government ministers. My interpretation of it is he's feeling uncomfortable for his lying and deceptive behaviour!

    But then when have any Natz MPs felt uncomfortable or remorseful for lying and deception?

    Is there a body language reading expert out there, able to interpret Si's little habit? I'd be interested to know. 

    • Sacha 22.1

      Suppressing his urge to run screaming and naked from the chamber? #freedom

    • Anne 22.2

      Yes. I've noticed it too. Yesterday was particularly bad. Couldn't leave his buttons alone. 😉

      Actually one of the Labour leaders was prone to playing with his jacket buttons too.  I think it was Andrew Little.

    • Robert Guyton 22.3

      Displacement behaviour; he knows he should really be buttoning his lip.

  22. Muttonbird 23

    Up to 100,000 rental properties will become illegal on July 01.

    I laugh hard when I hear amateur landlords crying about not being able to get it done in time. They have had 3 years to do this. They've been urged with information and incentives and they still haven't done it. It's apparent that many refuse to insulate not on cost but out of spite for their tenants who they view as unworthy of such luxuries.

    As one renter says, amateur landlords still hold all the power because no tenant is going to alert MBIE for fear of eviction and a permanent record of the complaint. "I think that landlords do have the power in this situation and I think that property managers are always on side with them, rather than tenants."

    Essentially, there will be few fines handed out because the amateur landlord industry is too big to fail and many tenants will be stuck in cold and damp houses.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/392001/about-half-of-rental-properties-likely-to-miss-insulation-deadline

    If the owners of all 100,000 non-compliant properties were fined on July 01 that would mean $400 million paid from landlords to tenants!

    • greywarshark 23.1

      There can be a small team of inspectors.   They find out from the tenancybody which houses are tenanted in a certain street, who the landlords are and advise them that they will be inspecting in the area, and would they like to come along and work with them?   It's the line that real estate salespeople and others tend to use when they want to see a householder.    I'm in your area doesn't give the idea you are being targeted but gives a prod to do something.   Perhaps the inspectors will be returning to the area in about a month and will get in touch again for an appointment.

      I would advise that two inspectors stick together.   A tenant killed a mother and daughter inspection team last year.   A firm was on radionz today saying that landlords are ringing and asking to have the job done by end June.   No way was the comment.  They are flat out.

      Some of us get galvanised when there is a deadline.  That's how we are.  So a polite hurry up will work wonders.

      • Muttonbird 23.1.1

        MBIE are going to get the tenants to do the work, unfortunately. There will be no inspection teams and as usual very little support for tenants.

        If amateur landlords are ringing insulation installers in June having had 36 month to prepare along with 50% subsidies, then they deserve a $4K fine for stupidity.

        • Sacha 23.1.1.1

          "MBIE are going to get the tenants to do the work, unfortunately. There will be no inspection teams"

          Bugger, there goes my plan then.

      • Sacha 23.1.2

        They have had three whole year of polite reminders. Time for a big programme of random audits with prompt correction of – and punishment for – breaches, with no negotiation. Would require MBIE to change its anti-enforcement culture like NZTA is doing.

    • Sabine 23.2

      its not even costly,. 

      my little unit is getting its roof insulated (the building is brick) and that will happen first week of July. Quoted cost 2700. 

       

      • Pat 23.2.1

        How little?…that seems rather high

        • Sabine 23.2.1.1

          clean up of the stuff that was used for insulation from the 80's. Plus new insulation. 

          two bedroom / large living/ kitchen bathroom.  Gst included. 

           

          • Pat 23.2.1.1.1

            k….materials only about $10 sq m….and heard someone on radio from landlords group saying around 3500 for average ceiling and under floor

            • Sabine 23.2.1.1.1.1

              yep, quote price for batts and installation is 16$ for 1 sqm – our roof area is 99sqm.  Plus vaccum removal and disposal of the dusty shit up there. 

              Fwiw it is a fair price to me and it is GST inclusive, so not complaining. Also the guys doing it don't work with contractors  – all their staff are employed. Which also has value to me. And i have a nice certificate that states that i am compliant with healthy home act and the residential tenancy act. So all good. 

  23. greywarshark 24

    I'm sick of waiting while the comfortable consider whether they will get up on their tortoise legs and make their unhurried way to put their no vote to every change such as marijuana.   Things are okay as they are now for ME they think.   Why change things – it will only increase the decline of society and we don't want to do anything to hasten that.   And so it goes.  

    The hare dashes on and because it is high on drugs anyway, it doesn't sleep and is there at the finish line waiting for the old guy to toddle up so the race can be declared finished and people can move to the next problem and finding a solution.

    Euthanasia, urgently needed.   Oh can't do it, it would upset me and all the other people who happily give up their brain to some conservative body and go into groupthink.  Something might go wrong in my little world.   Well something is wrong every minute of every day for many people in the world.   Grow a pair, or make way for people who hope to have a short life of happiness before their final curtain.

  24. Sabine 25

    so some 2500 years ago someone had a smoke 🙂 j

     

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/06/earliest-evidence-cannabis-marijuana-smoking-china-tombs/?cmpid=org=ngp::mc=social::src=facebook::cmp=editorial::add=fb20190613culture-oldestevidencecannabis::rid=&sf214217618=1&fbclid=IwAR0C6GcTk8bn07DXJrAOu9kL1A1ZPSLlT7qR8ev4VQU72xUFBTRJgt9s-IQ

     

    "Greek historian Herodotus, who described in his Histories how the Scythians, a nomadic tribe living on the Caspian Steppe, purified themselves with cannabis smoke after burying their dead: “The Scythians then take the seed of this hemp and, crawling in under the mats, throw it on the red-hot stones, where it smolders and sends forth such fumes that no Greek vapor-bath could surpass it. The Scythians howl in their joy at the vapor-bath.”" 

  25. Eco maori 26

    Kia ora The Am Show. 

    The people in the White House are having a huge lollie scramble. 

    Richard that all terrain vehicle driving simulator at the Hamilton field day looks cool we have heaps of hill in Aotearoa and elderly farmers that could be part of the reason why we have so many Quad accidents. 

    I cool that the Railways line is opening up to Wairoa today I will be happy when the Railways line is recommisoned to Turangi 

    I think scotmo statement that the Christchurch shooter had no nation of origin is bull I agree it sucks when pollies use racist divisions tactics to boost their popularity but it's not just Australia pollies who do that bilenglish tried that to .

    Auckland airport closed due to fog its foggy here to .

    Jacqueline & Mark S cool .

    Mark men need to get a medical check up every year there is a Phenomenon where men can't be bothered to look after their own wellbeing and get a prostate exam I encourage my whanau to go to the doctors all the time rural health services are very poor. 

    Jacqueline I want to see pictures of the RATS to

    The first 1000 days of a pepe life is very important  we need a culture that treats pepe as treasures 

    Sara Sanders had a very hard job being the press secretary for the trump White House administration no thanks .

    Ka kite ano 

     

  26. Eco maori 27

    Some Eco Maori music for the minute. 

  27. Eco maori 28

    What pissies me off is people Quoting  stats that compare NZ stats with other countries and state that NZ has the worst stats in the world yer Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa have a hard time in Aotearoa but by no means is it a bad as the Aboriginal native Canadians Hawaiian the Native American it is a lot better living in NZ THAN most other countries. Explain to Eco Maori why all these people from other countries want to live in NZ answer the living standards for the common person is much better hear than the other countries. 

    Eco Maori ask questions about the stats coming out of other countries conclusion the other countries are putting out false statistics why because they don't want to be embarrased on the world's stage. So please don't Quote that NZ has the highest bad stats for OUR WAHINE AND TAMARIKI . In Canada over the last 30 years 4000 native Wahine have disappeared WTF. Here is that story. The same thing happens in America its just not talked about in the media. 

    Three decades of missing and murdered Indigenous women amounts to a “Canadian genocide”, a leaked landmark government report has concluded.

    The document, titled Reclaiming Power and Place, was compiled over more than two and a half years. Canada’s CBC News was given a copy of the report, which is due to be released on Monday, on Friday. Its contents were confirmed to the Guardian by an individual working within the inquiry.

    The report, by the National Inquiry into Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women and Girls, determined that “state actions and inactions rooted in colonialism and colonial ideologies” were a key driving force in the disappearance of thousands of Indigenous women ka kite ano link below. 

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/31/canada-missing-indigenous-women-cultural-genocide-government-report

     

  28. Eco maori 29

    I agree we need to urgently dump all our activities that cause Global warming Climate Change it is the students are going to have a big mess to clean up if we don't change our consumer first society's. 

     

     

    Urgency is what's demanded by young activists. But they're met with crumbling complacency

    Eve Livingston

    There’s a generational divide between an establishment desperate for gradual change and a youth fired up for overhaul

    If there’s one word to sum up today’s political pace, perhaps it is urgency. Climate catastrophe is coming; hate crimes are rising; the far right is advancing and none of us can remember the last time parliamentary democracy wasn’t characterised by a hopeless race against a ticking clock.

    Advertisement

     

    And yet, having spent a lifetime lulled into the complacency that comes with privilege and a centrist establishment, it seems our political class just isn’t getting it. We have 30 years to change the course of history, say school climate strikers. People are dying now, say human rights and equalities campaigners. Real change takes time and consensus and a series of repetitive votes in a crumbling old palace, say politicians.

    Ex-BP boss John Browne: ‘It’s going to take a long time to take oil and coal out of the energy system’

    This generational divide between an establishment desperate to cling on to the idea of slow, gradual change and a youth fired up and impatient for radical overhaul was highlighted again last week when ex-BP boss John Browne was asked in the Observer what he would say to climate campaigner Greta Thunberg. “I would say that I have been at this for longer than you’ve been on the planet and that [decarbonisation] will take time,” he responded. “Remember that energy is a very big system and there is not one solution ka kite ano link below. 

     

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/11/youth-activists-demand-urgent-action-political-establishment-failing-them

  29. Eco maori 30

    Kia ora Newshub. 

    It is cool that the teachers and our government has come to a agreement ka pai. 

    Let's hope Sir Brian Lachore treatment for his bowl cancer works a he beats the cancer. 

    Looks like the trains are having a bit of problems in Auckland it just a minor blimp in our changes to mass transport. 

    I have seen the way the house prices in Gisborne can rise quite quickly that happens about 13 years ago to all the million dollar houses are in wainui. 

    Sara Sanders job as White house press secretary would have been quite stressful .

    Eco Maori can get away with incorrect grammar I don't have a army of runner's like trump does. 

    I know why trump has Kim at the White House lol.

    Ka kite ano 

     

     

     

  30. Eco maori 31

    Kia ora te ao Maori news. 

    I agree with the te tangata I stated months ago that national gave cyps a Maori name but forgot to change to Maori kauppa. 

    Its good that the local tangata whenua are showing opposition to the planned dump in there neighbor hood it's time to minimize waste 

    Its very good that the Reserve Bank is going to use te reo Maori. 

    Teaching tamariki about how money  works and how it can work for them is awesome I wish I had some guidance when I was short in the teeth 

    Ka kite ano 

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  • New Zealand medical specialists to provide further support to Samoa
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today announced further support for Samoa’s longer term needs as it continues to respond to a devastating measles epidemic. “Samoa’s health system has experienced massive strain in the wake of the measles epidemic. The volume of patients needing care during this outbreak, and the number of ...
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    55 mins ago
  • Discounted electric-bikes offered to public sector workers
    Discounted electric bikes will be offered up to public sector staff across the country as part of the Government’s work to reduce transport emissions and support healthier transport options.  Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter officially launched the new initiative at Wellington Hospital today.  “The Government has negotiated bulk-purchase ...
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    2 hours ago
  • Australia and New Zealand confirm joint bid for FIFA Women’s World Cup
    The Australian and New Zealand Governments today launch an historic joint bid to bring the FIFA Women’s World Cup to the Southern Hemisphere for the first time. Australian Minister for Youth and Sport, Richard Colbeck and New Zealand Minister for Sport and Recreation Grant Robertson will announce the bold campaign, ...
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    3 hours ago
  • Blackwater gold mine gets PGF boost
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) has approved a $15 million loan to help re-establish a gold mining operation at Blackwater Gold Mine, near Reefton, Rural Communities Minister and local MP Damien O’Connor announced at an event on the West Coast today. “This is great news for the Coast that could ...
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    4 hours ago
  • Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being
    Papakāinga model inspires whānau well-being A housing project by Kohupātiki whānau in Hastings is an outstanding example of a Māori-led housing initiative that can reduce financial pressure and reconnect whānau to their whakapapa says the Minister for Māori Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta.  Minister Mahuta officially opened the Aroha Te Rangi ...
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    4 hours ago
  • Housing First to help Nelson Tasman homeless
    Nelson has today seen the launch of Housing First Nelson Tasman. Today’s launch marks the expansion of the Government’s homelessness programme, Housing First, to the top of the South Island. “Housing First is a proven programme that puts people who are experiencing homelessness and multiple, high and complex needs into ...
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    6 hours ago
  • Government takes bite out of loan sharks
    The days of vulnerable consumers falling victim to loan sharks, truck shops and other predatory lenders are numbered, following the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill passing its third reading tonight. “Too many Kiwis are being given loans that are unaffordable and unsuitable, trapping them in debt and leaving their families ...
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    23 hours ago
  • New Zealand safer as Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders Bill) becomes law
    A Bill that prevents terrorism and supports the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas has passed its third reading, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill is a carefully targeted response to manage the risk posed by a small number of New Zealanders who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Foreign Minister and Pacific Peoples Minister to visit Samoa
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio will travel to Samoa on Friday, where New Zealand medical teams are helping Samoa respond to an outbreak of measles. “New Zealand has been working closely with the Government of Samoa and offering our assistance from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
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    1 day ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
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    1 day ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
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    1 day ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
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    1 day ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
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    1 day ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter has received the report back from a surgical mesh restorative justice process undertaken by Victoria University. The process heard stories, either in person or online submission, from more than 600 people affected by surgical mesh. “The report made for heart-breaking and confronting reading,” says ...
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    1 day ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
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    1 day ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
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    1 day ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
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    1 day ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
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    2 days ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
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    2 days ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
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    2 days ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
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    2 days ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
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    2 days ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
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    2 days ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
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    2 days ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
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    2 days ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
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    3 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
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    3 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago