Open mike 23/01/2020

33 comments on “Open mike 23/01/2020 ”

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1. weka 1

   23 January 2020 at 8:40 am

   https://twitter.com/voxmira/status/1220067560948789249
   • miravox 1.1

     24 January 2020 at 12:00 pm

     When is Twitter going to get an edit function!!

     Stuff is doing a good job on climate change, but it's the "if everybody gave up" stories that don't take into account how business operate in the big schemes. It's Capitalism, right?

     Anyways, The Guardian has published:

     https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/22/veganuary-animal-foods-plant-vegan

     "Supermarkets, global food manufacturers and biotech and chemical companies have enthusiastically embraced Veganuary. Fast-food enterprises, formerly seen as the nemesis of public health and the environment, have recast themselves as their saviours. "

     But really, I'm so over getting the majority of the population to make small changes (not that we shouldn't – we really should), when there are the very rich and corporations generally being let off the hook. For every plastic bag we avoid, someone designs a feature that uses truckloads of energy (open chillers is symbolic of this).

     For every person feeling the guilts about crossing the Tasman to see family, we have the super-rich doing this – https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/18/world-tour-luxury-jet

     "The jet used for the trip, which is described by the organiser, TCS World Travel, as “the Ferrari of commercial jets”, has been designed for well-heeled clients. The plane, which can carry up to 295 passengers, has been reconfigured to accommodate 50 customers in business class seats. The carbon footprint will be almost six times more per person than if the plane was filled with economy class travellers. TCS said it had paid to offset all flights…

     . The cost to the environment is the emission of 13 tonnes of carbon dioxide per passenger… It would take a typical family of four driving to their annual holiday on the south coast of France more than 30 years to rack up the same emissions."

     I'm pretty skeptical about the effectiveness of the carbon offsets as well, given the exemptions the airline industry gets.
     • weka 1.1.1

       24 January 2020 at 12:19 pm

       The plant based stuff is driving me nuts (lol). I loved your point generally too, what it looks like to me is that people are dealing with the surface stuff and not looking at the whole systems involved. Which is why people have bought into the offsets thing (which doesn't even make sense at a superficial level if we understand what a carbon budget is).

       I read this today, so many good things going on in this post, and lots of threads to follow up (is bovine methane really the big issue we are being told it is, or is this writer putting too much emphasis on their own view point or just getting the science wrong?). Mostly it was just a relief to see someone writing from a whole systems point of view. The critical analysis of the plant based movement is really good.

       https://lachefnet.wordpress.com/2019/05/20/the-ecocide-burger/
       • miravox 1.1.1.1

         26 January 2020 at 9:00 pm

         A good read. There’s a lot to unpack about the impact of animals on the climate change and the ecosystem generally, also how to weigh up the costs and benefits on farming methods. i’m not sure about how correct he is either – given what we read elsewhere, but I’m with you on seeing the vegan-promotion being critiqued. Something smells, and it’s not animal-based fertiliser.
2. Adrian Thornton 2

   23 January 2020 at 8:44 am

   Here is a very good interview, the last 5 minutes are especially poignant.

   "Pushback with Aaron Maté

   On the campaign trail, Joe Biden is falsely claiming that he opposed the Iraq war when it began. Biden says that his 2002 war authorization vote was not intended to approve the 2003 invasion, but instead to ensure UN inspections. "It's a completely disingenuous statement," says Scott Ritter, a former UN weapons inspector in Iraq who testified before Biden in the U.S. Senate. "Joe Biden, from the very beginning, was a proponent of regime change in Iraq."

   Guest: Scott Ritter — former UN Weapons Inspector, former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer, and author of "Dealbreaker: Donald Trump and the Unmaking of the Iran Nuclear Deal."

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK2kc0eOGS4
   • ianmac 2.1

     23 January 2020 at 9:37 am

     Regime change in Iran is the intent for the Trump Admin. Vietnam, Iraq. Now Iran.

     Pity there wasn't anyone able to force a Regime change in the USA.
     • adam 2.1.1

       23 January 2020 at 10:34 am

       The is, and the election is coming.
       • James 2.1.1.1

         23 January 2020 at 1:11 pm

         That ain’t going to change it.

         Trump will win. Again.
     • Adrian Thornton 2.1.2

       23 January 2020 at 1:15 pm

       Bernie 2020 is about as close to a regime change as the USA is going to get in my life time I suspect…of course the establishment Dem's and media are really starting to gun for him now, just as in the UK, the so called left liberal class would rather lose to the Right than win with a progressive candidate….

       Obama privately said he would speak up to stop Sanders: report

       https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/472090-obama-privately-said-he-would-speak-up-to-stop-sanders-report
       • Grantoc 2.1.2.1

         23 January 2020 at 2:26 pm

         Saunders may win states like California, New York and New Hampshire etc against Trump.

         But his chances of winning the states that are critical in the electoral college such as Michigan, Ohio and Illinois etc (the rust belt states) are practically zilch.

         The blue collar voters in these states will vote for Trump; just in the same way that the blue collar working class Brexit voters in the UK voted for Johnson.

         If Saunders is the Democratic nominee, then Trump, unfortunately is home and hosed.

         The Democrats need to make a pragmatic choice as opposed to an ideological choice if they are to win the presidency from the Republicans.
         • swordfish 2.1.2.1.1

           23 January 2020 at 10:43 pm

           
           

           Saunders may win states like California, New York and New Hampshire etc against Trump. But his chances of winning the states that are critical in the electoral college such as Michigan, Ohio and Illinois etc (the rust belt states) are practically zilch.

           Most recent Polls (in a series of swing states):

           Michigan (Early Jan 2020): Sanders beating Trump by 5 points … 50% vs 45%

           Wisconsin (Early Jan 2020): Sanders by 1 point … 47% vs 46%

           Ohio (Early Oct 2019): Sanders by 4 points … 52% vs 48%

           Ohio (Early Oct 2019): draw 47% each

           New Hampshire (Late Nov 2019): Sanders by 7 points … 49% vs 42%

           Nevada (Early Jan 2020): Sanders by 5 points … 46% vs 41%

           Florida (Early Jan 2020): Sanders by 6 points … 53% vs 47%

           No recent Presidential Polls in Illinois that I know of.
           • Grantoc 2.1.2.1.1.1

             24 January 2020 at 10:42 am

             Morning Swordfish. What polls are you quoting above out of interest?

             Not unusually they are at variance with other polls that are out there: for example the website 538 has Biden ahead of Saunders in Ohio and Nevada. Granted this poll is measuring the popularity of the Democrat candidates in different states, but it suggests that the punters in these states believe that Biden has greater potential to beat Trump than Saunders.
3. Dennis Frank 3

   23 January 2020 at 9:31 am

   The latest shambles produced by representative democracy is in Italy. "Luigi Di Maio took the anti-establishment Five Star Movement into government when it became Italy's biggest party in 2018 elections. But now that its popularity has dwindled after two successive coalitions he has resigned as leader, saying "an era is coming to an end"." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51214954

   "Although he will stay on as foreign minister, the decision of Mr Di Maio, 33, to step down weakens an already shaky administration. In his farewell speech at Hadrian's Temple in Rome, he described Five Star as a "visionary project never achieved before and with no equal anywhere in the world". Results would come, he insisted, adding: "We need to have time to sort out the mess made by those in power for the past 30 years.""

   Well, we could give the reformists the benefit of the doubt, and read this as a tactical move. Post-Berlusconi revulsion could yet have legs.

   "Starting out as a vehicle for an anti-establishment ex-comedian called Beppe Grillo, the Eurosceptic party soared in the opinion polls as Italians tired of the political class and corruption and backed a movement promising widespread reform."

   "Five Star, or M5S as it is known in Italy, is unusual in that it champions digital democracy among its members and puts decisions to an online vote. It started winning elections, including the mayoral race in Rome. Then Luigi Di Maio took over as leader aged 31 and won the 2018 election with 33% of the vote. After weeks of talks, Five Star went into coalition with the nationalist League leader Matteo Salvini in June 2018. But as Five Star's popularity halved, Mr Salvini's star rose. In an unsuccessful gamble on triggering new elections, Mr Salvini pulled out of the coalition last August only to see Mr Di Maio's party go into coalition with the centre-left Democratic Party. Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, an independent law professor, stayed in his job."

   This strategy of bridge-building to other parties, designed on a rotating-bridge flexibility, could work. A kind of Winston-on-steroids model. But only if voters see the bridgers as principled competent managers (not desperate opportunists).
   • RedLogix 3.1

     24 January 2020 at 4:59 am

     This strategy of bridge-building to other parties, designed on a rotating-bridge flexibility, could work.

     I see, another radical, fringe, extremist pack of centrist nutters
4. Rosemary McDonald 4

   23 January 2020 at 10:11 am

   So.

   Labour are having a wee Caucus Gathering in Martinborough to get their shit together for Election Year.

   I do hope they are going to stop implying that the failure to get certain 2017 flagship policies over the line is in part due to reluctance from their coalition partner(s).

   Had I the means, I'd link to a number of articles where various groups have spoken out about their frustrations at lack of Promise Keeping by Labour and reminding those interested in the truth that many of these Promises were also featured in Winston's Manifesto in 2017….prior to this document seemingly disappearing when NZF upgraded their webpage.

   Seriously.

   Do they think we all have such short memories?

   Tick tock Transformative Government, tick tock.

   SSDD
   • weka 4.1

     23 January 2020 at 11:07 am

     that would make a great post. Let me see if I can find a copy of the NZF manifesto.
     • weka 4.1.1

       23 January 2020 at 11:09 am

       Here's the L/NZF coalition agreement to start with.

       https://www.nzfirst.org.nz/coalition-agreement
       • Dennis Frank 4.1.1.1

         23 January 2020 at 11:38 am

         Good idea! A considerable list of priorities is immediately evident. I bet you can't find any such list of commitments on the Labour site!

         You could simulate a teacher & rate their performance on a score card: how many have they achieved thus far?

         Regional development lists 7 priorities, Economy 7, Environment 10, Education 6, Health 5, Democracy 4, Law & Order 4, Social development 3, Housing 1.

         Totalling the achievements in relation to the total of listed priorities would enable an overall percentage of success to be measured. That would establish a measure of competence. Rosemary's point about transformational is qualitative so can't be measured, but I would cite the sentence on collaboration in the coalition agreement and credit them with achieving successful transformation on that basis.
5. adam 5

   23 January 2020 at 11:12 am

   Tulsi for VP! That be great.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFePsZaeCCQ&ab_channel=TheHill
   • RedLogix 5.1

     23 January 2020 at 1:05 pm

     At last something we can both wholeheartedly agree on adam.

     History will not look back on the Clinton dynasty kindly; both of them powerful characters, but also flawed in many ways.
   • Jenny How to get there 5.2

     23 January 2020 at 5:36 pm

     Gabbard's support for Assad disqualifies her.

     …..she was one of just 47 Democrats who sided with Republicans and backed a GOP-sponsored measure that would essentially block Syrian and Iraqi refugees from resettling in the US. Gabbard was also a vocal critic of the Obama administration – which repeatedly called for Assad to step down – for arming Syrian rebel groups.

     https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/tulsi-gabbard-bashar-al-assad-syria-democrats.
6. joe90 6

   23 January 2020 at 12:48 pm

   This will be fun.

   https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/tulsi-gabbard-sues-hillary-clinton-defamation-over-russian-asset-remark-n1120176?
7. Cinny 7

   23 January 2020 at 1:09 pm

   Gosh, those people simon and co met with in the Philippines seem like a nasty bunch. I found an interesting article via twitter with a fascinating insight into who they really are and what they stand for.

   Simon Bridges And His National MPs Are Fraternizing With Staunch Acolytes Of Duterte’s Brutal Drug War

   https://thedefiant.net/simon-bridges-and-his-national-mps-are-fraternizing-with-staunch-acolytes-of-dutertes-brutal-drug-war/?fbclid=IwAR0Qd1oiOX8q5T7swxhVFw4rY57MuptB2xn3SuFhajfq0Ky1Bz9PlOg6K90
8. Peter 8

   23 January 2020 at 1:10 pm

   I heard Paula Bennett earlier in the week talking up what she saw as Shanes Jones and a forestry conflict of interest.

   'We don't do democracy like that here.'

   Then to questioning about electioneering this year she gave an indication of how she sees democracy here. Scummy, lying, misleading, dishonest advertising and propaganda techniques seem to be the way to go. All in the name of 'holding to account' of course.

   I understand Paula, you want democracy like that here and have set your course with that compass.
9. joe90 9

   23 January 2020 at 1:38 pm

   Time to close the gate.

   The death toll from the Wuhan coronavirus has risen to 17, as dozens more cases were reported across China and as far afield as the western United States, sparking fears of a possible pandemic.

   On Wednesday, the Chinese city of Wuhan — where the virus was first identified — said it would "temporarily" close its airport and railway stations for departing passengers. All public transport services will also be suspended, as authorities attempt to contain the virus.

   https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/22/asia/china-wuhan-coronavirus-deadly-intl-hnk/index.html

   As the cluster of cases with "pneumonia of unknown cause" had centred around a wholesale animal and fish market, which had a thousand stalls selling chickens, pheasants, bats, marmots, venomous snakes, spotted deer and the organs of rabbits and other wild animals, it led to the suspicion that the cause may be a novel coronavirus from an animal source

   […]

   Wuhan is the seventh-largest city in China, with a population of more than 11 million people. It is a major transportation hub in central China, approximately 700 miles (1,100 km) south of Beijing,[40] 500 miles (800 km) west of Shanghai, and 600 miles (970 km) north of Hong Kong.[41] Direct flights from Wuhan also connect with Europe: six flights weekly to Paris, three weekly to London, and five weekly to Rome.

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_outbreak_of_novel_coronavirus_(2019-nCoV)#Context
10. alwyn 10

    23 January 2020 at 1:41 pm

    "the ignorant will always be with us. And representative democracy requires someone represents their interests."

    That is what Ms Ardern does of course. She is very good at it as she is one of the tribe. Just ask her something like "What is GDP?" and watch her waffle.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
    
    • Incognito 10.1

      23 January 2020 at 1:43 pm

      Waffle in OM, Alwyn.
11. Dennis Frank 11

    23 January 2020 at 2:20 pm

    So the Russiagate has widened enough to get the Greens through?? Hilary Clinton reckons so: "Clinton made her remarks during a podcast appearance on "Campaign HQ" with David Plouffe, a Democratic strategist. She did not identify the current Democratic candidate whom she was referring to, but also said Jill Stein was a "Russian asset" as the Green Party candidate in the 2016 election."

    Perhaps Putin uses a geopolitical chess set, in which the US Green Party is a pawn (painted Green). Poor Hilary – betrayed by progressive forces on every side. Somehow they just didn't want to admit she was god's gift to the left..

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/tulsi-gabbard-sues-hillary-clinton-defamation-over-russian-asset-remark-n1120176
12. Jenny How to get there 12

    23 January 2020 at 5:47 pm

    

    Vita Molyneux

    Alarming new map shows large swathes of NZ towns and cities underwater by 2050

    https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/alarming-new-map-shows-large-swathes-of-nz-towns-and-cities-underwater-by-2050/ar-BBZeDpF?ocid=spartanntp

    Wowee, just in time to celebrate New Zealand becoming carbon neutral.
13. Eco maori 13

    24 January 2020 at 6:28 pm

    Kia Ora Newshub.

    Sounds like a bit of waiting at the Auckland Airport.

    It will give me a sore face to see more Maori MPs Kia kaha.

    Whats happening in Myanmar is not on all of those people being pushed in refuge status.

    Ka kite Ano
14. Eco maori 14

    24 January 2020 at 6:55 pm

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    The One love consert will be great in Tauranga this weekend.

    That's is cool the Maori basketball Haka. Basketball is a fast growing sport great to see.

    Ka kite Ano
15. Eco maori 15

    25 January 2020 at 11:24 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

    https://youtu.be/XDmZRvJBS-E
16. Eco maori 16

    26 January 2020 at 5:35 am

    https://youtu.be/qQfetkoGrpU

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