The blowoff stream
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- Date published:
6:02 pm, September 15th, 2014 - 348 comments
Categories: election 2014, internet mana party, john key, Minister for International Embarrassment, same old national, video, youtube -
Tags: kim dotcom
The queue is enormous. But here is the feed.
Thanks Selwyn for the link…..
19:05: Liala Harre has been improving her speaking since I last heard her. Introduced the speaker guests. Looking at the progressive achievements of the NZ past.
19:07: Glenn Greenwald is first up.
19:10: Greenwald calls John Key an adolescent š John Key has no interest in dignity or statesmanlike. “I’m not going to descend to the prime ministers level”
19:15: Greenwald directing his remarks towards John Key. In particular that Key is releasing classified information to protect HIS reputation.
19:20: Greenwald not paid. He told internet party to donate it to a charity. The Prime Ministers “reckless” accusation. Question is what is John Key saying about himself when he throws those types of accusations around. Does he have any principles?
19:28: NSA said project Speargun underway. Phase 1 completed. In this case actual implementation of technical means to capture internet data at the cables.
19:31: John Key lied about gaining new powers with the GCSB bill. In private they were saying something completely different. Waiting for GCSB Act before doing first metadata probe. The GBSB Act required to do the mass surveillance that Key was denying.
19:35: Snowden said that he saw the type of surveillance that Key was denying as an analyst in Hawaii (where our southern cross cable lands.
19:38: Snowden next.
19:45: Prime Minister wrong in his facts about surveillance. John Key is doing a careful parsing of words. GCSB reads US copies of surveillance of NZ citizens
19:54: Snowden says that metadata is more powerful for analyst than content. He has seen NZ data, both metadata and content. Available to all members of the 5 eyes, and without significant oversight. In NZ that oversight such as it is – John Key.
19:56: Assange from Wikileaks…
20:03: Assange: 5 eyes is an alliance of intelligence agencies – not nations. There is no consent by the population, just by elites in these nations now monitoring the citizens for their own benefit.
20:15: Video done with encryption. Kim Dotcom just did an advert for mega.
20:18: Bob Amsterdam – lawyer on TPP.
20:25: Amsterdam states that John Key is an outlaw. For instance the law society objecting to John Key abusing the due process for passing laws. Using ‘terror’ to do citizen invasion…
20:35 Amsterdam calls for a comprehensive independent Royal Commission on the actions of the John Key government.
20:40:: Kim Dot com intro? Nope.
20:54 Standup…
Gower predictably only interested in the email. Laila says proper process being followed – if speaker chooses to act.
Dotcom says the question is about John Key with the GCSB.
Dotcom is lecturing the media on their inadequacies and failings. It is not about his case, it was about the 5eyes, GCSB, and John Key’s government.
Greenwald saying that journalism is a about the facts. It is not about the election except that he has been working hard to get it out to allow people to go to the election with information.
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Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...1 week ago
- Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care
Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...1 week ago
- Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect
The Green Party is alarmed by the Governmentās move to exclude a journalist from covering this weekās apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...2 weeks ago
- Without action, an apology will be empty air
For tomorrowās apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference
Concerns about the tobacco industryās ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Governmentās decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...2 weeks ago
- Urgent wake-up call on climate
The Climate Change Commissionās latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action.Ā ...2 weeks ago
- Green MPās Meme-berās Bill set to save the world
Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carterās Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies
Kua hinga te manawa kairÄkau o Te Rua Tekau Ma WaruĀ Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po!Ā Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro!Ā Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te PÅĀ ...2 weeks ago
- Labour, Greens and Te PÄti MÄori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te PÄti MÄori are working together against the Governmentās divisive Treaty Principles Bill.Ā ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour, Greens and Te PÄti MÄori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te PÄti MÄori are working together against the Governmentās divisive Treaty Principles Bill.Ā ...2 weeks ago
- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Winston Peters must apologise
The Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to the public servant he named and blamed for something they did not do, and for misusing the rules of Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements
The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.āCabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...14 hours ago - Bill reaffirms Governmentās commitment to crack down on serious youth offending
The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Governmentās commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. āIn recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. āThis Bill makes ...15 hours ago
- Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review
Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. āThe Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...15 hours ago
- State of the art radiology machine for Auckland
People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...16 hours ago
- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...16 hours ago
- First arrests made under gang patch ban
Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. āJust before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...18 hours ago
- Better support for victims of sexual violence
The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. āWe are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...18 hours ago
- Government moving forward with Regional Deals
Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...19 hours ago
- MSA pilot participant update
One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Childrenās Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naĆÆve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. āIām saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...19 hours ago
- Attendance rates increase, again
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. āThis Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...21 hours ago
- Improving the lives of young New Zealanders
Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Governmentās new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. āChildhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...24 hours ago
- Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea
The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.āThe Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...2 days ago
- Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024
TÄnÄ koutou katoa ā it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...2 days ago
- New Zealandās COP29 National Statement
TÄnÄ koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...2 days ago
- Latest Quarterly Investment Report released
The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Governmentās expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. āNew Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...2 days ago
- New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. āNew Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...2 days ago
- Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight
The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. āGang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...2 days ago
- LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils
The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.āCommunities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...2 days ago
- Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed
The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayersā money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.āWhen I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...2 days ago
- Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double
Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. āWe need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...3 days ago
- Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference
Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. āIt is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. āHowever, the reality ...3 days ago
- Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). āReaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Governmentās ...3 days ago
- Health survey results to help drive change
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 ā July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...3 days ago
- Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025
A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. āThe latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...3 days ago
- New diplomatic appointments
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. āOur diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealandās interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,ā Mr Peters says. āIt is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...3 days ago
- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Governmentās plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. āNew Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,ā says Mr Seymour. ...3 days ago
- Red Tape Tipline goes live
Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulationās Red Tape Tipline is now live. āWe want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,ā says Mr Seymour. The ...3 days ago
- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. āYouth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,ā says Mr Doocey. āThe two-day ...4 days ago
- Police stats show promising change
After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. āIn August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...4 days ago
- Better coordination of anti-scam efforts
With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. āOnline financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...4 days ago
- Minister to consider 7AA select committee report
Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. āI want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...4 days ago
- Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting
Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministersā Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. āWe need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,ā Ms Collins says. āNew Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...4 days ago
- Launching the White Ribbon Ride
The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in WhakatÄne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...5 days ago
- Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury
Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...6 days ago
- NZ signs trade deal with Costa Rica, Iceland and Switzerland
Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has signed a pioneering trade agreement that prioritises New Zealandās sustainable exports at a ceremony during APEC in Peru today. āThe Agreement on Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS), between Costa Rica, Iceland, and Switzerland was concluded in July of this year and opens up significant ...6 days ago
- Government and iwi work together on aquaculture
Five new Aquaculture Settlement Areas will help ensure NgÄi Tahu shares in the opportunities aquaculture offers for Southlandās economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. āThe Aquaculture Settlement Areas (ASAs) Iām announcing today set aside space so the Crown and NgÄi Tahu can assess their potential for aquaculture development. ...7 days ago
- Government launches review to ensure electricity market is fit-for-purpose
The terms of reference for a review of the performance of the electricity market have been released. The review, initiated by the Coalition Government during the power crisis in winter will look at whether current regulations and market design support economic growth and access to reliable and affordable electricity, Energy Minister ...7 days ago
- Speech to Social Investment Hui: Jack and his whÄnau need our help
Kia ora koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai, piki mai. Ki te mihi atu ahau, ki te manwhenua nei, Te Atiawa, NgÄti toa rangatira, tÄnÄ koutou, tÄnÄ koutou, tÄnÄ koutou katoa. Thank you, Andy, for your introduction. Let me acknowledge you as the new Chief Executive of the Social Investment ...7 days ago
- Minister of State for Trade heads to Brisbane for PACER Plus meeting
Minister of State for Trade Nicola Grigg has travelled to Australia to attend the PACER Plus Ministers Meeting in Brisbane. āTrade plays a critical role in driving employment, economic growth, and improving the standards of living in the Pacific Region. The Government is strongly committed to supporting Pacific Island countries ...7 days ago
- Proposals to modernise conservation released
ToitÅ« te taiao ā Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to modernise New Zealandās conservation management system, aiming to protect relevant natural areas while supporting sustainable growth in tourism and regional economies, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. āToday, the Department of Conservation ā Te Papa Atawhai is ...7 days ago
- Knowing superstitions arenāt real doesnāt stop us behaving superstitiously ā why?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephanie Gomes-Ng, Senior Lecturer of Psychology, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Former New Zealand prime minister John Key has three white rabbits painted on his helicopter, a nod to his āmassively superstitiousā habit of repeating āwhite rabbitsā three times at ...46 minutes ago - Government slammed for pushing ahead with boot camps while trial still under way
The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...2 hours ago - Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate
Labour claims Government is ācherry-pickingā smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago - Treasury bangs the drum on āunsustainableā superannuation
The Government’s economic adviser is sending a message it doesn’t want to hear – superannuation is increasingly unaffordable The post Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Victims of sex offending welcome shift on name suppression laws
A man abused by a former political figure is "immensely relieved" at a government proposal to end secrecy around sex offenders' identities. ...2 hours ago
- This week three parties stood together ā can they withstand the storm to come?
There is plenty yet to play out, but the next election is at this rate shaping up as trio versus trio, writes Toby Manhire. A subplot of this weekās historic hÄ«koi mÅ te Tiriti has been the sight of the three opposition parties presenting a unified front. Te PÄti MÄori ...2 hours ago - All 33 malls in Auckland ranked from worst to best
From the low lows of abandon empires to the high highs of a mall done just right. This is the second in the Malls of New Zealand series, where we rank the malls in major centres. Next week: Wellington. A note from the editor: This is the hardest ranking weāve ...2 hours ago
- The cost of being: A clothes-mad 20-something who walks everywhere
AsĀ part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 27-year-old apartment-dwelling marketing exec explains her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here. Gender: Female. Age: 27. Ethnicity: PÄkehÄ. Role: Marketing exec at ...2 hours ago
- Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Daily crossword, Friday 22 November
The post Daily crossword, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term
Opinion: Recent discussions in Shanghai provide some insight into whatās likely to be on the table The post China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Nuclear winters know no borders
Opinion: The immediate horror of nuclear weapon explosions ā the blinding flash, crushing blast wave, and radioactive inferno ā is well documented.But what nuclear-armed nations either don’t grasp or won’t admit, is far more chilling: how their weapons could devastate even countries thousands of kilometres from any mushroom clouds.The collapse ...2 hours ago
- This weekās bestselling books ā November 22
FICTION1 KÄwai: Tree of Nourishment by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Sample dialogue, all from one chapter:“That can’t be,” replied Taona doubtfully.“You were right. The pÄ is unnervingly quiet,” Taona murmured.“The HÄkuwai,” Motukia breathed. “Our grandfathers told us they rarely saw the HÄkuwai in daylight,” Motukia muttered.“Their fight would have been futile ...2 hours ago
- Burma the flying elephant
After about two and a half years of planning and waiting, New Zealand’s last elephant has moved to her new home at Monarto Safari Park in South Australia.Burma and her “human herd”, that is, her keepers, arrived last week, and she’s settling in well, according to Auckland Zoo’s Andrew Coers.“Something ...2 hours ago
- NZās membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy
Senior ministers in the coalition suggested NZ’s membership will be re-evaluated if it restarts offshore oil and gas drilling The post NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Raw Politics: Six months in a leaky Bill
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did not meet the Treaty Principles Bill hikoi crowd, sees “nothing” of merit in the Act-proposed law but the Parliament his Government dominates will spend six months debating a “divisive” measure.That’s because he has accepted there needs to be “aeration” of people’s views on the Treaty, ...2 hours ago
- Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to sellingĀ big Whakapapa ski field
Bidder Whakapapa Holdings walked away from the sales process last year, but says it’s now ‘95% there’ on a purchase agreement ā so who blinked first? The post Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to sellingĀ big Whakapapa ski field appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Watts nears a landmark deal on global carbon trading
A framework for global carbon trading under the Paris Agreement is finally nearing completion at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan after years of halting talks.Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is one of two ministers tasked by the COP29 hosts with landing a long-sought deal on Article 6 of the climate accord, ...3 hours ago
- Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasnāt given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...8 hours ago
- Fears MÄori will pay heaviest price if police carry guns
"Overwhelmingly, those people who die will be young MÄori men," the spokesperson for People Against Prisons Aotearoa says. ...9 hours ago
- NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change
62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPsā spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...10 hours ago - The House: Meanwhile, a week of passing law
The political week has been packed with worthy distractions, but all week Parliament has focused on passing new laws. Here are the highlights. ...10 hours ago
- The biggest difference between HÄ«koi mÅ te Tiriti and past hÄ«koi: More support from non-MÄori
Analysis - The diversity of voices during the hÄ«koi was noticeable - from tangata moana to young immigrants to elderly PÄkehÄ from the South Island. ...11 hours ago
- The House: Samoan citizenship restoration – ‘It means we belong to this land’
When the bill to restore NZ citizenship to some Samoans passed this week, Parliament's galleries were full to the brim with members of the community. ...12 hours ago
- More Delays In Action On Use Of Puberty Blockers With Children
Womenās Rights Party Co-leader Jill Ovens says the Ministry has put New Zealand children at risk by continuing to allow āoff-labelā prescribing of puberty blockers at far higher rates than other similar countries. ...12 hours ago
- Police Minister adamant he wasn’t aware of gang members training at gun clubs
That is despite two papers from police that raised the matter with him. ...13 hours ago
- Shorten declares himself āa proud moderateā, saying Australians āin the middleā shouldnāt ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Bill Shorten has declared himself āa proud moderateā in a valedictory speech declaring parliament has the responsibility to ensure the extremes of left and right do not set the terms of political debate. Shorten, ...13 hours ago
- New ābest practiceā principles for superannuation products are coming. We asked a panel of exper...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matt Garrow, Editorial Web Developer Studio Romantic/Shutterstock We all know how important it is to save enough money for retirement ā but what about spending it wisely when we get there? Even for those who have built up a suitable ...13 hours ago
- Government accused of betraying Kiwis’ trust over lack of consultation on live exports
The government has always vowed to reinstate live exports by sea, which was banned by the previous Labour government. ...14 hours ago
- 7 things you can do if you think you sweat too much
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Freeman, Associate Professor of Dermatology, Bond University ERIK Miheyeu/Shutterstock Sweating is our bodyās way of cooling down, a bit like an internal air conditioner. When our core temperature rises (because itās hot outside, or youāre exercising), sweat glands all ...14 hours ago
- Phenergan for under 6s is now banned due to hallucination fears. Hereās what to use instead
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Professor of Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Macquarie University Australiaās drug regulator has issued a safety warning over the medicine Phenergan and related products containing the antihistamine drug promethazine. The Therapeutic Goods Administration said the over-the-counter products should not be given to children ...14 hours ago
- A new stage adaptation of Peter Careyās Jack Maggs is a delightful homage to theatrical storytelli...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Campbell, Lecturer, Performing Arts, UniSA Creative, University of South Australia Matt Byrne/STCSA Jack Maggs is a delight and a homage to theatrical storytelling in Australia. Based on Peter Careyās bestselling novel, Jack Maggs follows the ex-convict as he lands ...14 hours ago
- The government has introduced laws for its social media ban. But key details are still missing
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Angus, Professor of Digital Communication, Director of QUT Digital Media Research Centre, Queensland University of Technology Ron Lach/Pexels The federal government today introduced into parliament legislation for its social media ban for people under 16 years. Communications Minister Michelle ...14 hours ago
- Archives NZ, National Library to cut 27 roles
The Department of Internal Affairs wants to bring the two organisations under the joint leadership of the Chief Archivist and National Librarian. ...14 hours ago
- Gang patch ban: Members warn of potential for violence to ‘erupt’ as new laws enforced
"I can't see this lasting unless they have a budget to lock fullas up in jail which I think is absolutely stupid, really it's ludicrous," Ngavii Pekapo, who set up a Mongrel Mob chapter 54 years ago, says. ...15 hours ago
- ACT leader David Seymour raises doubts about Waikato medical school
Government documents show ACT leader David Seymour told the government he was "dissatisfied" with a cost-benefit analysis. ...15 hours ago
- National’s Erica Stanford allegedly calls Labour’s Jan Tinetti a ‘stupid bitchR...
The Education Minister has apologised in Parliament for her remark. ...15 hours ago
- Labour backs new Police Commissioner – but warns against routine arming
The alternative to policing by consent would be a police state, which New Zealanders don't want, the party says. ...16 hours ago
- Youth on boot camp pilot re-offended five weeks after release
Children's Minister Karen Chhour said while it was disappointing, it would naĆÆve to think none of the participants would lapse. ...17 hours ago
- In photos: People of the hīkoi, and why they marched
Hikoi mÅ Te Tiriti has come to an end, going down in history as the largest march to Parliament in Aotearoa. ...17 hours ago
The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.
Can.Hardly.Wait. No blackouts please…can that be requested even?
How exciting! Hasn’t Kim Dotcom brought some pizazz to the 2014 general election?
Just standing back for a moment from the fire in the crucible at the moment, I genuinely think Dotcom and the Internet party would be great for New Zealand.
His first task should be to oversee the dragging of the IRD and its arcane, paper-based technology into the 21st century. The billions saved with a comprehensive and modern platform, and the removal of process from the many failed accountants who make up all levels of the IRD would help level the playing field for a lot of our underprivileged children.
I myself will not be voting IMP but I admire what they have done in a short space of time.
I am enjoying it but I just hope it does not fracture things like in 1981 …
Unless we are at the point where breaking is the only option left. Sometimes things have to break in order for something else to arise.
Yep but change is what people fear most. It’s why National’s promise of keeping things the same often works while promising change often doesn’t.
Labour/Green/NZF/IMP are not going to win without a schism in the voting booth.
The John Key personality politics has hypnotised such a large proportion of boof-head New Zealand men that a seismic event at this point in time may be the only way to unseat the sort of happy-go-lucky corruption we are witnessing from the current government.
Greg, you are fractured now, your decision to use foreigners, and criminals to fight your cause is the fracture. Your fiasco will probably see us through to 2017, since the man with his legs apart in the sand will hold. We certainly hope he does. It will be 56% NZ Govt with Winston, and none of us need come back to foaming Draco or Martyn for a long time no love you. Keep up with the money for babies idea, in an overcrowded world, you know you pay for my new Nazti baby, and the CGT,enerally explain policy which is abhorrent to New Zealanders , I think we love Dot crim for a long time, keep him here.
arent you the guy who cant read google correctly?
seems you cant write very well either – paragraphs for gods sake!
and actually having foreigners comment is vastly better as they have no political affiliation in NZ
š
Does Paul Scott know how to comment without lying? Not on the evidence.
Maybe a repeat of 1981 is exactly what’s required. There are many that look back on that era, what transpired in SA, and have realised how divisive the whole sorry episode was – even certain police officers changed their minds.
What I hope is that it doesn’t become cyclical. I’d thought we’d learnt from 1981 and Muldoon and his despotic disrespect for democracy. But then I thought the world might have learnt from WWII and fighting fascism. Apparently not (I mean who could have expected the ‘victims’ to be supplying the apartheid regime’s with their weaponry; who would have expected Obama’s Hope & Change to have become a rerun of neo-lib agendas and to be creaming himself over his relationship with a treacherous money trader?
Maybe a rerun of 1981 is EXACTLY what’s required. – But I hope not. If it does come to that, then the de-ANZUs, the putting NZ out in the cold as punishment for anti-nuclear stance shouldn’t be feared.
There’s always the BRICS (and along with it their proposal to duplicate the internet MINUS US hegemony. And should that happen – realistically there’s ekshully not a shitload The Land of The Free could do about it
A blow by blow of the blowup of john blowoff – I sense a shart – lights on upstairs in the beehive again – loving this liar going down!
His reputation is smelly and horrid – now we just need to get him to realise and the pack will follow š
oops we lost someone
ok starting bang on time
yay it’s on!!!
The stream is lagging by about 30 seconds
Campbell live doing some background coverage.
I have screens, but only the town hall audio playing.
Not sure why Laila is there. This should be a KDC event, not an IP event.
It was always going to be a promo for IMP + KDC.
Didn’t the IP organise the event?
They did.
They should mute Kim’s mic. I don’t mind that he’s amused but Glenn is speaking well and I want to listen to him.
This is a massive bombshell.
Apparently, Queen Elizabeth has been abusing Glenn Greenwald!
Ah well, all is right in the world – Americans still don’t get the difference between Head of State and Head of Government.
LOL – yeah – noticed that one.
And then “President Key… erm “PM Key”
Quality of stream is very good.
Another reason to hope for a change in government. Good quality streaming!
heh.
It’s because they are in central Auckland and will have access to high speed cable that will only be required to carry the upload to Google/Youtube.
The problem with the previous streams was that they were locally hosted which caused all kinds of issues.
(I occasionally stream and can manage 720p if I fiddle enough)
Great. Damn good so far.
another few days to go and then the gnashing of the teeth, foam at mouth, , and back to your normal violence
Don’t be a silly wee fool. The left as a whole are seldom violent. Violence tends to be done to the left by knuckleheads like yourself.
Glenn is a very good speaker.
funny too. A delight to watch.
Check this presentation Greenwald gave in 2013
Almost up to 15k viewers…
How many Hager books were sold so far? Does this already beat that? š
were are you seeing the viewer numbers Zorr?
Watching it on Youtube. There is a viewer count under the video.
19k and rising atm…
>19k and rising atmā¦
So around 0.6% of registered voters. That must be a bit disappointing considering the hype.
60k now.
Most of those views are likely to be linked from the front page thread on Reddit where this story is trending right now. I’d wager a guess that the majority of those views are by people who can’t vote in our election.
That said, if I’m wrong and most of those views are from NZ then that is certainly an impressive figure.
It’s gone up to 90,000 in the past hour, so unlikely to be mostly kiwis.
Although kiwis are nocturnal, there’s that š
60 thousand in 4 hours.
Not bad for a political youtube vid.
[dumb troll speaks – deleted]
That 3rd slide is a killer
yeah, I felt a bit sick seeing that.
Has anyone asked Greenwald about the MSM in NZ and how to create balanced and fair media?
Greenwald has touched on that – mainly by talking about the role of journalists, and what NZ journos should be doing.
He hasn’t talked about how to make that happened.
I’ve heard some general comments on what journos should be doing. Nothing on specific MSM issues in NZ though. I can understand why he wouldn’t want to go there, but we need the same degree of spotlight put on the journos as on the govt.
[deleted]
[lprent: Banned again. Clearly likes to criticize, but unable to handle criticism. 4 weeks to attempt to learn self-control. ]
What was Laila’s dig at Plunkett about?
He was being a complete twerp. From his Facebook:
“Actually came to work angry this morning. Angry that a fugitive German hacker, fraudster and money launderer still thinks he can hijack a New Zealand election. I guess money talks, it bought the Mana Party and Laille Harre and even a wife for a while. It has also bought journalist Glen Grenwald and his lawyer here to participate in what must be the most sophisticated act of revenge and self serving mind control in the history of this nation. The liberal media and left leaners of Aro Valley have lapped up the half baked conspiracy theories and hate speech the Kim Dotcom and his cronies have peddled in the past weeks in the hope of fixing an election. I guess the only thing that tempers my anger is the fact that they have and will continue to fail…that this mud slinging campaign based on fear and innuendo won’t fool the vast majority of New Zealanders”
holy shit. That’s embarrassing.
McFlock just posted in OM that Hoskings has done a similar rant on Seven Sharp.
Plunkett is most likely feeling he’s been conned, missed the boat, failed as a journalist in how this story got passed him and regrets, somewhat emotionally, supporting John Key et al.
and then tossing his toys out of the cot.
Right on Sean.
Exactly how I felt.
It is outrageous that foreign nationals in the form of these pricks can come to NZ and attempt to disrupt and influence New Zealand’s election.
Imagine the uproar if the Nats had bought in a bunch of foreigners to discredit the liberal left parties with a series of allegations about their behaviour just prior to the election.
As for that ultimate prick amsterdam slandering key by calling him a traitor, he should be frog marched out of NZ post haste.
key is a total ‘traitor’..
..he is not working in the interests of nz citizens..
..he works in the interest of a foreign power..
..against the interests of new zealanders..
..by any definition..
..that is a ‘traitor’…
“Imagine the uproar if the Nats had bought in a bunch of foreigners to discredit the liberal left parties with a series of allegations about their behaviour just prior to the election.”
Ok, this is satire right?
As a foreign national who lives here, (been called a prick by many and told to ‘go back where you belong’ – notably by Winston 3 times, and twice when he was deputy PM) all I have to say you and your ilk is – “Go fuck yourself you clowns. Preferably both emotionally and physically, and thirdly, very painfully”
Sean saw All the Presidents men, came on his show and said he’d seen the light and Nicky was right all along, went on about Jason ede
so you hate freedom of speech – thanks for playing, you can pick up your free jackboots on the way out
“Imagine the uproar if the Nats had bought in a bunch of foreigners to discredit the liberal left parties with a series of allegations about their behaviour just prior to the election.”
well if they had been up to illegal and unethical practices it would be in everyones interest to know before voting wouldnt it
thanks your big dumb problem – the left actually dont want representatives who are corrupt and would gladly welcome such an exposure if it was true – and you cant comprehend that
I knew Plunkett’s dad but don’t wish to speak ill of the dead.
Plunkett is right in one sense. “Money talks”, unfortunately it seems that the only way the Left can take on the wealthy right is with Dotcoms money. No one else could expose what we have seen here. Good on Dotcom for this and his funding of IM.
I have court provable evidence concerning two occasions whereby I personally have been the subject of what could only be classed as mass surveillance. Both occasions occurred late lat year. Who wants to know more?
Me, please.
In response to a recent Slashdot thread entitled, “Hacker Disrupts New Zealand Election Campaign” the subject line “Voip SMS Fixed” discloses details of one incident that can be backed by affidavit. The second incident involves an NZ Customs unwarranted interception of a private postal envelope clearly marked as coming from a Bank Ombudsman, details of which correspondence could only have been gleaned using a surveillance program.
A judge.
So, there’s an NSA facility in Auckland, and another in the “north”… where exactly? (Snowden statement)
My house. š
You would have driven past the one up north, going north. It’s not a TV satellite receiver. And the one in Auckland, well that one I’m not 100% but I thought it was in Takapuna.
Corner of Northcote Rd & Akoranga Dr is end point of Southern Cross Cable going to Hawaii.
The satellite station near Warkworth, is mostly used for data traffic, most likely location of ‘NSA North’
Other end of Southern Cross cable is Whenupai near airbase
šÆ
Just off New North Road.
Tweet from Gower:
What is interesting is the responses to that Tweet. Thanks for link Karol.
Heh.
You could see all the TV3 jonolists and others all starting to see the light. But after a nights sleep what will they write
So we’ve got someone wanted for theft, someone wanted for breach of copyright and someone wanted for sexual offences, talking to us about morality.
I think I can see how this one is going to play.
Shame, for a moment I thought they had something going there.
ah and here comes the dog in the manger.
Simply pointing out the obvious … Expect lots of that interference, drowning out whatever the message was.
This had the makings of a king hit but Assange’s presence is a gift to the right.
It certainly smells like one…
Well you obviously made up your mind based on the evidence presented.
Please spare us your in-depth analysis.
I refer you to my comment immediately above yours. Learn to read and think before deigning to share your branes with us.
mate you’re just too clever for the likes of us. Piss off eh? Or try doing something else that’s constructive.
Referring to Aesop’s fables and telling others to shut up rates as constructive in your book?
I give as good as I get. If you want to play nice, I’ll play nice. If you’re going to be a vulgar cretin, I’ll at least match you on the first count.
But you always start with the negative shit. Always.
With Labour at 25% in the polls it’s a bit hard to argue the glass is half full.
I simply saw an immediate problem with tonight’s events, and how it was going to play out. If you feel a warning is negative, then you need to develop a thicker skin.
Sorry if this was meant to be some back-slapping and mutual pleasuring session. It didn’t say so on the door and I just walked right in …
missing the point. It’s that you always come in with the thing that undermines. That’s your starting point.
Perhaps because no-one else has said it but it needs to be said?
I don’t see any point in wasting posts on repeating whoo-hoo type comments or offering phoney comfort.
Still, if you want a cuddle and to be told it is all okay, I’m sure someone will be happy to oblige.
fuck off with your deliberate misrepresenting my point.
What? You complain about me being all so ooh-nasty-negativity. I explain, patiently, why I posted the comments that I did. You get all upset about a teensy-weensy joke at the end of it.
Just look at you’re own foul mouth posturings up thread. All you’ve done is (try to) attack me personally. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out. And clearly, you can’t.
š
You are an incessantly negative person. Actually negative isn’t the right word, because there is nothing wrong with being critical. As I said at the start, dog in the manger is probably the best fit.
I get sick of it. You can be however you like, and I can call you out on it.
Can you please provide some guidance as when one is allowed to be ‘critical’? It is hard to tell when one is being ‘critical’ and one is being ‘negative.’
Possibly, if you practised posting without swearing and telling other posters to shut up and piss off, you might not come across as so ‘critical’ yourself.
just stick with the dog in the manger metaphor and you’ll get it.
If I have to be a dog can I not at least be a better sort of dog? Maybe one of the dogs that everyone is always saying we are going to? I’d like to be one of those dogs. They must be very popular if everyone is going to them.
Weka, For me it’s the name. I mean Lurgee?
from the Oxford dictionary….
brane noun
Physics
An extended object analogous to the strings of string theory but having any number of dimensions rather than one dimension.
not sure that’s not an unintentional compliment ??
No. Try here:
http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/
It’s very funny, though sadly defunct.
@ lurgee….you dont know what you are talking about …false accusations!….and a reflection on yoursef!
Are you claiming that Snowden is not wanted for data theft, Kim Dotcom is not wanted for copyright violation and Assange is not wanted for sexual offences?
As far as I am aware, the charges against all three still stand. I didn’t pass any comment on the validity or justification of the charges. I was merely pointing out how Key / the right will play this one.
Is this the dreaded lurgee?
This snowden reveal of the nz tickbox destroys key’s lies
Disappointed there was no documentation to back up his claims.
It;s in the already published Snowden Document, as explained in Snowden’s post today.
And it’s in Greenwald’s article and accompanying links today.
Kim just needs a shopped piccie of key as a lizard person and the show will be complete.
What a complete waste of 2 hours of my life.
right, so not actually interested in documentation then.
Sockpuppet you just proved everything Pam said, was right on the money about you lot.
Old bought and paid for
PamCameron SlaterDavid FarrarJohn Key……… fucking sellout.[lprent: Umm I think that you must have had wrong person. I corrected it for you several times. This is because I care for your accuracy. š and I feel this is stupid pointless abuse. And I really didn’t like your original version when I checked back on it.
I’d suggest that you exert more self-control in future. ]
Nope he is just trolling. Even though KDC did not have the affidavit what I saw tonite was damning, utterly damning.
Heh I can just see you typing with that serious look on your face…. the Dotcom show was a joke and unfortunately for those of us who favour a change of government it will do more harm than good.
Dotcom is a crook and a charlatan who has duped the media and other lackwits.
^^^ Concern troll.
Keep sucking that stogie sockpuppet. Agent provocateur was the old adage. Me thinks you are just FUBAR by being lied to so often, you can’t get the snafu to work anymore.
š š š š
… and it’s you’re not your..
But he hasn’t duped you – No leave that to Key! You sad fool.
You sad sack just because I despise dot com and his ilk doesn’t mean I vote for the likes of key
I don’t like the man much either (I lived on the same road) but I respect what he has done tonight and that has been to bring to the attention of the NZ public just how much under threat the sovereignty and the liberty of NZ is from both the 5 eyes and the TPPA. Furthermore he has clearly demonstrated to the people that all this has been at the complicity of our current PM, who has consistently lied to NZers and to Parliament about the intentions of the GCSB Act, and the TPPA negotiations. All at the instigation of multinationals, and the bully boy behaviour of the USA. If you can’t see that then you are a fool.
Can’t wait for Lynn to get home.
edit, ah I see sockpuppet that you have removed your comment saying “you are a cunt”.
[lprent: That is the upside of having long edit times. People get to think about what the moderators will think of it when they see it. The corrective self-control in this one tends to indicate that he has met the issue of doing it the wrong way before. ]
yeah I thought that too (it’s not like they removed it for the sensibility of the thread).
Key is a crook and a charlatan who has duped the media and other lackwits.
So did this spying occur under Labour?
“So did this spying occur under Labour?”
Why don’t you go and read the documents and look at the dates?
…must … not … think for… self…
But how will it sink Key? Seems pretty easy to teflon away to me.
Fuck John Key. Don’t worry about him. The only way that National win the election is if people don’t get out and vote.
Most of the damaging information came out this afternoon.
Your hole life is a complete waste. You should be on someone’s foot, but instead you have Ede’s and Slater’s hands up your bum.
[lprent: I’d put that down as pointless abuse. However I was just contemplating saying much the same after reading a few of the idiotic comments by the puppet. ]
š
rofl @Murray.
You could have deleted it for the spelling mistake anyway. I’ll claim I was over medicated yesterday as my defence. For some reason, sockpuppet really got to me.
Yes! – the TPPA must go before it even begins!!!
What a fucking joke this has been
Exactly – key has let everyone down so badly, he doesn’t deserve any respect at all, not even as a punchline.
Get a grip. You might like to read the biggest forum in NZ which is typically left leaning saying this is a dog.
http://www.gpforums.co.nz/threads/491767-Dotcom-Reveal
The truth is painful – I understand why you are so upset.
I wouldn’t call the gpforums left-leaning at all…
It’s not TradeMe forums but, then again, Trademe makes any subreddit look respectable.
Fark did you watch the same video as the rest of us?
Ideological blinkers are out in force tonight Micky. If they had to think for themselves – their poor wee brains would explode.
Tell us why you think it’ll expose key so much he’ll be voted out? Shit, I was hoping for a resignation.
Yep. A load of bullshit from kim and co as usual, with nothing to back it up.
Yeah, it was a real bummer.
Nothing (particularly) new from what was already published this afternoon and discussed in interviews this morning and over the weekend.
Assange was incredibly boring, too.
I agree that there is no “smoking gun” so far but it is possibly the best presentation of the case against Key and the GCSB. I think it will be enough to sway voters because it is working very well as highlighting the failings of Key.
Especially when Glenn, Snowden and Amsterdam are talking. They are strong and persuasive speakers. It would have been made better without Assange.
the long period of isolation and limited access to resources has made Assange’s contributions somewhat less relevant, unfortunately. Also it’s been reported that Assange’s health is not great and I think that plus long term house arrest is having an impact on him.
Agree on Assange – boring an unnecessary.
We needed the Greenwald & Snowden articles from today first. They have been speaking to that.
Sorry to disagree, but the testimony of Assange was very pertinent to what the others were saying. That is, that the sovereignty of our country is under threat. That needs to be repeated endlessly.
I repeat the paraphrase from the post above:
That it it in a nutshell, the spies are taking from us our liberty and rights to privacy for their own ends and without the consent of the population, aided and abetted by a compliant government.
too much antipathy towards Assange (someone on twitter named the elephant in the room, and only half the audience rose to applaud him). Any of the others could have said what he said.
Maybe – but it is the testimony of someone who also has his liberty at risk – as well as Snowden – and has acted in the public interest. That adds weight however non engaging his style of address.
People today are far to eager to look at the style rather than the substance – hence the popularity of Key. Image above all things is the failure of the modern age.
I agree re substance, and I thought about how Hager often doesn’t come across that welk in interviews, however I wasn’t referring to Assange’s poor speaking skills. I think that too many people feel incomfortable about him because of the elephant in the room (not going there tonight myself), despite the good things he has done, and for that reason it was probably a mistake to have him there.
“Image above all things is the failure of the modern age.”
Ae, which is why so many people are focussed tonight on the lack of a smoking gun, or the fact that the night should have been about KDC’s email.
Yes I’m well aware of the other aspect – and no I am not going there either – except to say we have a rule of law that says “innocent until proven guilty” and that seems to be neglected by many who want to discredit what Assange has to offer.
The “did Key know or not know of KDC before the raid” is frankly minor stuff to what was revealed tonight.
It’s pretty obvious he did.
+1
Watching twitter and how angry people are with KDC is just bizarre. On the other hand KDC does misjudge the NZ mindset quite a lot and I don’t think he realises that we don’t really go in for the whole celebrity/big ego thing.
Not sure I agree with that; How do you explain our reality show PM?
That’s entertainment, where we do do celebrity. I’m talking about politics. If KDC wants to be taken seriously by the intelligentsia, he needs to understand NZ culture better.
Disappointed in you there Macro, you did just go there.
Irrespective of all the various views on Assange, my point is that too many people here in NZ feel antipathy towards him and I think that affected things tonight.
Macro +100….i thought what Assange had to say was crucially important….our democracy and sovereignty and economic independence is under threat by a bunch of anonymous pirate cowboy intelligence agencies …and Key’s Nact govt is complicit.
Yes confused – you have been well and truly fucked over and you never knew it. Sad fool.
Ah, I see that’s you, prominently in the front row Lynn š
Russell Brown ā@publicaddress 6 mins
When the noise drops, I can hear the typing and texting around me like the pitter-patter of light rain. #MoT #MediaSeats
Maybe, maybe not…
KDC’s lawyer isn’t that inspiring is he!
You reckon? I watched him and I thought he was outstanding. Was his language too complicated for you?
yeah that must have been it….
Shorter MS…..
He insulted Key therefore he is a godlike being.
Those who hate freedom, and liberty are out in force tonight. One must remember Slatter does not write his own material, these meretricious fools just cut and paste.
So a D- for the pool of dross your spinning their sock. Try harder.
well, scheduled event and they can’t afford another tea-tape slide.
Those who are easily hoodwinked by the Crook from Coatesville are out in force tonight. One must remember that Dotcom’s tame trolls don’t write their own material, these meretricious fools just cut and paste.
So a D- for the pool of dross your spinning adam. Try harder or dot com will cut the paycheque.
.. see I can play that game too.
š
so your counter to a claim that you’re just a cut&paste idiot is to cut&paste?
tres faboo…
In case anyone is curious, that’s half a gig of streaming so far (1.5hrs).
And we’ve all tuned out.
Key is in so deep with the NSA, they named xKeyScore after him
Oh like that one.
Snowden outstanding, Greenwald and Amsterdam good. USA 3, others 0. KDC should take a back seat.
The big story here:
Snowden had the killer evidence – Key has lied about NZers not being subject to mass surveillance, only the willfully ignorant can deny that now.
As Snowden said (paraphrase), such surveillance might be justified, but it cannot be against the consent of the people. It cannot be hidden from the people.
If Key said “Yes, we do it, because we have to, for our security”, that would be grounds for an open debate. Ends and means, etc.
But instead he says “We don’t do it – end of.” That’s false. Beyond argument, now.
Snowden had no evidence. He was a lacky. He said it was happening here, so it must be happening there too.
Get fucking real. NZ doesn’t have the capacity to do that.
So, is Key’s (your) line now that there IS mass surveillance, but it’s by the USA, with NZ’s agreement and that’s OK? Or that it’s by the USA, without NZ’s agreement?
Both lines are new, so which is it?
Neither are new. Get out from under your rock.
OK, can you point to a statement by the Prime Minister acknowledging either?
That’s pretty huge news, and I missed it.
uhh, x key score has been out there for years now. May be pretty huge news for the uninformed like yourself.
A lackey for whom, exactly? You right-wing trolls are so transparent; when in a tight corner, throw inspecific poo while putting on your best “Mrs Reasonable” face.
infused you really are ill informed, and as such should not pass judgement. Next you will be saying we didn’t help the Americans put spy bases on Antarctica.
nonono infused stop the name calling as snowden said the facts are not yours to dismiss you and your keys smearing wont work snowden is well up the ladder well beyond you or your key he is totally credble and has not axe to grind key is a very small petty person compared to snowden so please no more gutter slater tripe crawl back where you came from
learn some punctuation and I might be able to finish reading that.
They do. You don’t understand how it works.
Every member of the 5 eyes contributes to the pool of information that can be searched by XKEYSCORE. The network of sensors is designed to cover the entire internet. ECHELON works the same way for satellites ā each member has listening stations that contribute to a common pool of information.
Each country then accesses that pool as it sees fit (independently of the others). With ECHELON each country would have a dictionary of words that it gave the computers to comb the data with. XKEYSCORE does that for the internet, but in a much more powerful way.
So Key may well be correct that the GCSB doesn’t “access” NZers metadata, as it can certainly opt out of doing so by omitting NZ results from the pool of information (Snowden described how this is done in his answers). Where he’s lying is in denying that it is “collected” by the GCSB, since the GCSB as a contributor to the common pool of data must collect it for the system to work.
Cool. Produce the evidence so I can have a read.
Another one who wants shit handed to them on a plate. Not your private researcher. Start by reading the voluminous amounts of Snowden info already published on XKEYSCORE.
You forgot to mention that Snowden had operated with NZ intelligence in Hawaii. Go back over the video. You’ll see it.
Will key have to resign, then? He’ll just bat the lying accusations away as usual and then go up in the polls. Abbott’s Australia looks better by the second.
Why? Not one bit of evidence was presented.
Where is your evidence for that outrageous claim?
Because he lied.
Nah Chris. I live in Queensland and it’s pretty much as bad locally. Nationally we’ve got Abbott eagerly joining another war.
Karol up north reference by Snowden – my pick is Warkworth.
Satellite station?
A sub-equatorial peninsula in the south western corner of the Pacific way away from other nations navies…
satellite station is where emails go. Voice traffic and internet would be via fibre cable as its normally faster
Warkworth satellite station would seem the logical place.
Con:fused no the US does and you are an enabler!
So fucking what. Take it up with the US then and encrypt your data. Start being smart instead of being a sheep.
which encryption packages haven’t they compromised?
bull run, I believe it is called.
Lots. Why don’t you do some research?
Why don’t you learn the difference between “which” and “how many”?
Any list of uncompromised encryption tools has some false negatives on it.
… really.
Just use PGP then.
Or are you going to quote the conspiracy theory that the govt has a back door in to it?
Nah.
I’m just going to point out that the NSA has an exposed program to exploit intentional vulnerabilities in some encryption products, so therefore without an advanced degree in programming and cryptographic mathematics one has no way of knowing whether one’s data is genuinely protected by any given product.
And the word of some pseudonym who thinks that an eyewitness claim (from someone who has been demonstrated as a credible source) doesn’t count as “evidence” is not equivalent to an advanced degree.
Con;fused Contradicting your own lies trying to pull the wool then admitting than we are being spied on!
Lost the plot Poor we johnny won’t be happy with you not able to follow script!
Off to spying and lying school for you!
The only thing tricking down is your IQ. Single digits now it seems.
That’s it? So KDC isn’t going to produce his evidence Key lied?
something’s meant to be coming out tomorrow?
Doesn’t look like it. ipredict’s got stock on evidence key lied about knowledge of Dotcom down to 11% last time I looked. Been up and down and all over the place today but has definitely bottomed out after tonight’s performance. Dotcom at the select committee said to key “I know you know”. Hope something comes out soon.
So what happened to KDC’s email & the promised affidavit?
That was promised for tomorrow (if I remember what was written today correctly)
Any source for that? I’ve been reading most stuff this afternoon and didn’t see any mention of that.
I’m trying to remember, I heard it today too, sounded like there was a change of plan.
edit, nope, looks like it was yesterday,
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/dotcom-promises-residency-bombshell-6080297
I guess because the email got leaked early they didn’t go with that. Or it’s something legal to do with KDC’s defense.
Russell Brown ā@publicaddress 2 mins
So supposedly the email didn’t feature because it’s going to the Parliamentary Privileges Committee. #MoT
But really, they should have said that tonight to let people know.
They did say it but, at the time, I didn’t know what they were talking about.
I forget who said it but it was something like ‘you may have read the story in the Herald today, well the IP/Mana take it seriously and so have sent it to the Parliamentary privileges committee’.
I wondered what the ‘story in the Herald’ was about at the time – should have guessed as it’s pretty obvious. But they didn’t say ‘the story about the email’.
Speaker not Privileges committee apparently – working from my memory only.
Referred to the privileges committee. It’s gatekeeper is the speaker.
yes I heard that but I didn’t realise it meant they weren’t going to look at it at all tonight. Even if they didn’t want to say that at the start in case people tuned out, they could have said something at the end. Also explaining what that means (Mana’s actions).
I forget who said it…
Amsterdam.
That is absolute nonsense:
A) they already released it to Herald
B) there is no privileges committee at present
C) even if there were, that wouldn’t stop them talking about the “email”
Take some time brother. Take some time.
Sorry, you’re right. It appears that it is meant to be revealed tonight.
Apparently there is a press conference that was planned shortly where it is intended to be revealed.
NZHerald live update said press conference at 9pm, so that might be it.
stuff.co.nz live reporting:
So that’s it then. Hardly a smoking gun.
http://thestandard.org.nz/the-blowoff-stream/#comment-888288
“So thatās it then. Hardly a smoking gun.”
You mean about KDC’s claim that the PM knew about him before the raid and therefore lied, right?
Because the rest of the evening was one big smoking gun (although it’s crap and inappropriate metaphor).
I am specifically talking about the KDC ‘proof’, yes.
But the rest of the evening wasn’t anything that wasn’t published earlier today, except possibly Snowden claiming there’s US spybase in New Zealand (“Auckland” and “up north”) as well as the (minor) point about the checkboxes. But neither of those points are particularly interesting and neither had any actual proof to back them up, just claims.
Also there was nothing at all about trade partners or other countries being spied on, which is apparently what the government was afraid of.
All-in-all I think the media is going to pronounce this a damp squib.
kind of misses the point. Putting the information out online and then following up with a very good explanation (from Greenwald and to a lesser extent Snowdon) was a great strategy. I learnt a lot tonight.
Do you not think that now there are definite issues for the PM to answer to? (re the GCSB, not KDC).
Yes, but nothing that’s going to do any significant damage to his electoral chances.
this is way bigger than Key’s electoral chances.
I don’t think anything is going to do significant damage to his electoral chances. Key could be caught shooting a kitten, but all he needs to do is claim that “Labour made me to it” and (apparently) people will believe him and decide he didn’t do anything wrong.
@ weka – can’t say it means much to me if he ends up power for the next 3 years anyway.
so if too many NZers stay home and don’t vote then everything that has just been talked about is meaningless? what?
Key’s ‘electoral chances’ are in fact going down. The only way that he wins this election is with a low voter turnout. We need to stop buying into the MSM narrative.
The ‘smoking gun’ – I don’t like the term either – was that Key appears to have lied about the GCSB doing mass surveillance and about the GCSB Act not empowering/making legal such mass surveillance.
There was documented evidence to support the claim that Key misled the New Zealand public over the nature of the intelligence surveillance to which they are subject.
That’s a far worse lie than whether or not he knew Kim Dotcom prior to the raid.
+1000 Need to keep that put there.
The first hour and a half was incredible. The rest I could have done without, and I hope the first bit doesn’t get lost in the tedium of Assange or the KDC stuff later.
First time I’ve been disappointed in Harre.
@ Puddleglum: All of that ‘evidence’ was published this afternoon, and to my reading still leaves wiggleroom.
Key can say “yes the cable was tapped, but we never actually did surveillance”, which Snowden’s presentation slides don’t actually refute. All they said is that phase 1, the tapping was complete, and they were *going* to begin surveillance *after* the law enabling them to do it was published. But as Key says, the law to enable it was never passed because the law that was passed doesn’t allow for it.
Snowden didn’t have any evidence that there was mass surveillance going on beyond simply his words and recollections that it did.
That’s wrong. It’s technically impossible to stop it being done given Snowden’s explanation of how it works. Even if NZers metadata was not being looked at by the GCSB, it is still being collected through interceptions in NZ and being made available to the other 4 members. The collected information from everywhere is held in common.
The system can’t work the way it is supposed to if large portions of the internet remain untapped. ECHELON worked the same way: every member had access to all the feeds, but each would use its own dictionaries independently of the others to mine those feeds.
The GCSB can choose not to monitor NZers via XKEYSCORE, but it cannot choose not to have their metadata made available to the common pool. The NZ government is allowing NZers metadata collected in NZ by its NZ connection to be accessed by its intelligence partners, even if it does not access them itself (dubious in the extreme).
@ Tom Jackson – and the *evidence* for all of that happening is what, exactly? Snowden said that’s what happens? Does he not have any documents that corroborate that?
I really don’t know what you were expecting to see. There’s pretty much always going to be ‘wiggleroom’, simply because very very few pieces of evidence are unabled to be refuted in any way. Like I said on another thread – most things are not proven by a single smoking gun, instead they are proven to a certain degree of certainty but small incremental pieces of evidence that add up.
+1 wtl
the whole smoking gun thing is a meme that comes from our Mainstream Mediafied political sphere, and probably Hollywood tv and movies, where we need this big dramatic thing to make us all feel something Important has happened.
Have to say that I felt like something important happend tonight anyway. As Hager said, the ‘lack of smoking gun’ meme is pretty much what was said about Dirty Politics. It misses the point and is used to marginalise issues by the right.
The evidence is all the Snowden documents published over the last year or so. As for XKEYSCORE, its existence is acknowledged by the NSA. There doesn’t seem to be any really meaningful denial from the usual suspects. Even Wikipedia has an article on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore
All Snowden appears to me to have been saying is that this system works on the same principles as ECHELON did, and that would mean that NZ data is collected and shared.
@Lanthanide 9:34pm
Well, the GCSB seemed to think that the passing of the GCSB Act would provide them with the ability to move to phase 2 of ‘Speargun’ (why on earth are these things given codenames?)
Key was assuring New Zealanders the legislation was not aimed at allowing mass surveillance right from the very first drafting of the Act.
Yet, as the presiding minister, he must have known (a) that phase 1 had been implemented and (b) that, from the GCSB’s perspective, the metadata probes awaiting phase 2 were dependent upon him passing the legislation.
@weka & Tom Jackson:
Key said he would resign if kiwis were mass surveilled. Snowden says they were and suggests they are, but has no proof. Key won’t resign based on what we saw tonight, so it’s a grand case of over promise and under deliver. That is how the general public will see it and how the media will largely report it. This could actually end up being damaging to the left, if only by association with mana.
Do you really think that Key was ever going to resign? WHATEVER piece of evidence there was, he would have said ‘its fake’ or ‘it was just a plan, it was never implemented’ or ‘it was implemented but no one actually did any real spying’.
He has as much proof as he had in the other cases (the NSA documents). Has the NSA denied that those documents are genuine? As far as I know, they have not. Hence, the documents that describe the tapping of the cable and the GCSB waiting for the new legislation are reasonably considered genuine. Ask yourself, why would the USA be pursuing Snowden if the documents weren’t genuine?
I think you might have placed too much stock in Key’s supposed rebuttal via the release of classified GCSB documents. If you look around, the general consensus is that the programs mentioned in those documents have absolutely nothing to do with what Snowden was talking about. So you have to ask yourself why the PM released documents that to any person informed about the issue are an obvious smokescreen.
Snowden and Greenwald are already reporting from a position of credibility on this issue. The reportage on the NSA has already won a Pulitzer Prize, which would be extremely odd if their material was mere speculation, and the response of the US government demonstrates that their reporting is factual.
I’m at a loss why you can’t accept their account of things, given that they have been reporting this for over a year and nobody has managed to gainsay their credibility?
Did KDC say that or was that the Herald? Oh the Herald is a baston of truthfulness, how could the possibly get anything wrong…
Absolutely pure dead brilliant!
Wake up New Zealand. John Key is a traitor to our freedom in the pocket of the USA. And the sooner he’s shamed and leaves the country the better – odious little creep.
+1 Good succinct analysis that I agree with.
+1 exactly my feelings too
Well that cements my vote.
Yes indeed I thought the Internet party was pants before tonight now it has been confirmed that they are not only pants but mega ego retards as well.
Green all the way.
Yes sock puppet and Keys is not a megalomaniac right?
š
Fine, but what will the soft-centre of NZ politics make of all this? The Key-loving caramellows?
They are no doubt OK with JK watching over us. BUT :
* Are they OK with his big US brother doing it for us?
* Are they OK with him lying to us about it?
These are the questions of the week. All the rest is literature, for the politically literate.
I’m really scared now. It looks like something out of 1984. I am seriously worried about this country.
Wow.
I cared not for the Dotcom part of this evenings events. He can fuck right off.
But Snowden I have a ton of respect for, his statements were extremely concerning and chilling.
Some serious allegations raised that demand answers.
Snowden has a crystal clear brain. Knew exactly what he was talking about. NSA lost a top notch performer there. Serves them right.
It was reputed that Snowden’s work colleagues regarded him as a true genius in a work place that was full of them.
Dotcom’s lawyer Robert Amsterdam is brilliant!
a new government is just the start we need a full royal commison is to the key government not a key jack up full royal commison nothing less we have been sold down the river
Wouldn’t a Royal Commission be risky? UK is one of 5 eyes. We need to look at an independent country to run a commission
Get Scotland to do it after the weekend.
(BTW I think you’ve got the mechanics of how a Royal Commission works slightly wonky)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11325069
Read that a few times – the cable was tapped – fact.
Well, the guy from the Cook Strait Cable (company?) claimed they had never been tapped because they would have known about it.
That comment was relayed by Mary Wilson on Checkpoint tonight – it was in response to Checkpoint’s question to them.
You just put the interception in building next door- lo and behold company has space for servers next to end point of cable in Akoranga Dr/ Northcote Rd
“Well, the guy from the Cook Strait Cable (company?) claimed they had never been tapped because they would have known about it.”
Did you hear Snowdon’s response? All other countries in the world have had their cables tapped by the NSA, how did NZ manage to not?
Yes, I did hear Snowden’s comment about that.
Now with Key confirming that it had been tapped it clearly shows that what the person from the Southern Cross Cable said was wrong (not Cook Strait, of course – my apologies).
So that’s one ‘denial’ that has been shown to be wrong/ill-founded despite being said unequivocally.
I hope someone manages a good synopsis of points of Greenwald and Snowden’s talks. Where does this go next? That’s what we have to talk about tomorrow.
We need a OIA/question on why concerns were there that it could be ‘perceived’ as mass surveillance. It obviously was mass surveillance because why adjust to a narrower focus if not. I am calling this as the bit that will drop key.
Well, this election is going to go down in history.
Never seen anything like it.
This was the biggest fizzer, as predicted. Kim even got to advertise mega.co.nz
trolebaby, you said that already.
As you just have – lol
EMPEROR KEY HAS NO CLOTHES!
NZ owes everyone tonight a massive debt of gratitude.
right on cogito.
Sounds like the shit is going down at the press conference
sorry, reverse order,
Russell Brown ā@publicaddress 7 mins
“In the past, Patrick, you have let New Zealanders down.” Dotcom has a go at Paddy. And now it’s over. #MoT
Retweeted by Danyl Mclauchlan
Brook Sabin ā@BrookSabin 8 mins
Kim Dotcom gives @patrickgowernz a lecture in journalism.
Toby Manhire ā@toby_etc 8 mins
That press conference extraordinary. Kim Dotcom’s instructions on media priorities – “you need to do your job”, twice – not going down well
Retweeted by Toby Manhire
Brook Sabin ā@BrookSabin 12 mins
This press conference is going South. Lots of yelling going on.
Danyl Mclauchlan ā@danylmc 11 mins
I’d give up an eternity of Assange for twenty seconds of the press conference live-streamed
Russell Brown ā@publicaddress 12 mins
Metro editor Simon Wilson arguing with Greenwald, accusing him of disrupting the “our democratic process”. It’s getting hot in here. #MoT
Russell Brown ā@publicaddress 17 mins
They’ve fucked this up. The important Snowden stuff will be trumped by the non-Dotcom reveal.
Giovanni Tiso ā@gtiso 14 mins
@publicaddress Yes. But a minimally competent journalism corps could look past that somehow and ask the questions that need asking.
They sounded more pissed off than searching. It was interesting to watch. Gower was kind of pissed off in the questions about that.
Pissed off at KDC, or pissed off at what was revealed before the press conference?
I would have liked it to descend into fighting. There are any number of smug journos who would be improved by a clipped ear. š
partial video
Interesting. Thanks. It looked like KDC got up and walked away when the email was mentioned.
Something has happened.
No I was there. The email had been raised earlier. It’d already been said several times that he was responding to the last question.
OK. Thanks, Lynn.
Did KDC or Amsterdam confirm that the email was going to be KDC’s big reveal tonight?
Well, the only fact we know of is that the I/M Party was responsible for submitting it to the privileges committee, not Kim Dotcom. That suggests Laila knows something or lacked confidence in it and made him give up on it.
I’m sure I saw him tweet in person about it earlier today, but that tweet appears to have been deleted. His retweet of the Herald story about it remains. It sounds like he’s been gagged.
That makes sense. I doubt that KDC would have been going to publish it without it having been run past his lawyers well before now.
Today may have been the first time IMP had seen it.
You’re right about the lawyers. Surely they wouldn’t let him bring it up it without proof. Perhaps KDC went off the reservation and leaked it himself despite advice, although that seems odd to me.
I can’t make any sense of it at all, really. It just seems such an obvious own goal, although KDC did downplay his reveal last week.
I read that Hone took it to privileges committee. Perhaps he put his foot down.
more vids here (of the event)
https://www.youtube.com/user/OccupyNZMedia/videos
Dirty Politics ā@DirtyPoliticsNZ 8 mins
Lambasting the lack of ‘smoking gun’ at #MoT sounds incredibly similar to the initial insults directed at the release of #DirtyPolitics
So, apparently the press conference has been getting fractious.
Tweet from Brook Sabin
Tweet from Russell Brown:
Funny. The NZ media do more to disrupt the democratic process than anyone else.
Yes indeed, in fact I believe some see themselves alongside our MPs and Ministers as major (albeit unelected) players.
Simon Wilson is one of our good ones tho
They got a caning on Twitter tonight.
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1298/6679/original.jpg
That was a bit of a mess. It’s silly to promise that you will show that John Key lied about knowing K.com before the raid, and then not to touch that topic at all, considering evidence about it had been leaked that day. Giving the email to the privileges committee seems a sure fire way of making sure nothing is seen of it until after the election, when it will be of no use.
Waffling on in generalities about surveillance, trade and world politics was also pointless. Snowden and Greenwald kept their sections relatively specific and it worked. The others wanted to paint a big picture that wasn’t necessary and probably counterproductive. It’s symbolic of what is wrong with the Internet Party: for a party supposedly about internet rights, it’s tried to shoehorn in a list of left wing concerns that make such a small party too cumbersome and complicated to appeal to many.
+100.
Well, I agree with you about that.
It was not good that they didn’t explain re KDC’s big reveal. And I agree the second half was off and probably unecessary. But let’s not lose sight of the first half and how important it is.
It’s ok to not get the whole night perfect.
Yes. Amsterdam was interesting. But he as wondering off topic, and it blunted the impact of the other stuff.
The email slam then fizzle is strange. And strange they didn’t say very much at the MoT about it or why it went to the privileges committee instead of featuring in tonight’s MoT.
Amsterdam makes a statement about it at about 1 hr 55 mins into the video. He’s basically asking for a full enquiry, but that it won’t happen til after the election.
This got raised in the press room.
Essentially Laila said that it had been put in front of the only court that it could be – the privileges committee. Essentially the only body that can censure a MP raising this kind of stuff in the house is the house itself.
Also I think that one email is just the tip of the iceberg. It sounds like there is a whole conversation backing that. As we all know by now, when one email lands in the wrong hands then usually there are a bunch of them been copied.
I hope you’re right Lynn.
But I can’t see why they should care about Key being in trouble with parliament when it would be much more effective to release it with proof and force him into an impossible position on the eve of the election in the court of public opinion.
All that stowing it away does is make Key’s denials look credible and the email look fake (which it might well be).
although it might affect the post-election horsetrading – winston wouldn’t be all that impressed.
Tom, tomorrow will you be talking to people about KDC’s PR failure, or what Greenwald and Snowden revealed?
Look I speak for myself. I don’t think I’ll be talking to anyone about it ā mainly because none of my colleagues will be voting to keep the government.
I personally believe that providing proof that the email was genuine would have been a king hit of the likes never seen before in politics. Key would have spent the rest of the week being hounded by media and the public because it would have not only been a case of lying, but of abuse of state power for political ends.
The Snowden stuff was no surprise to me. I’ve been following it since the start and I already knew about XKEYSCORE and how it worked. Since I found out about it, I assumed as a matter of course that NZ was participating. As far as I’m concerned Greenwald made a convincing case that my assumption was correct.
But people don’t care about surveillance. Politics is about personalities. Exposing Key as a jerk would do more to change the government.
Lots of people care about surveillance. Did you not see all the activity last year during the GCSB debate?
The beauty of the MoT is that it has presented some pretty complex issues in a form that is (a) accessible to non-geeks and (b) reaches the mainstream. Sure, people on the edge have been going on about this stuff for a long time. But this is different, it’s not smack bang in the faces of middle NZ. That is hugely significant beyond what happens on Saturday (and I say that as someone who believes this election is the most important one of my nearly 50 years).
I don’t think we have enough information to understand about the email yet. Sure, keep thinking about it and talking about it, but why let it distract us from where the movement and energy is today?
Not enough IMHO. The “nothing to hide; nothing to fear” nonsense is disturbingly widespread. Too many people think that spying is used solely to make John Minto’s life difficult, or to watch people like lprent’s niece (the one who doesn’t like battery chickens) and they approve of this.
This is a long term issue, and I’m pretty sure it won’t save us from another hopeless Nushunal government. But I agree it’s not going to go away unless people keep talking about it.
I suppose I don’t see the primary purpose as being affecting this particular election, though it would be awesome if it did. What I’m more interested in is how it will change the culture, and how the media will respond esp post-DP.
I also think the ‘people don’t care’ meme is self-reinforcing.
The problem is optics. He’s been promising that for months and hardly talking about the other stuff. Then it doesn’t happen.
Weird if you ask me. Perhaps they discovered that it is a fake and did this to maintain some plausibility until the election. Other than that, it makes zero sense to me.
Yes, the other stuff is incredibly important, but the average person didn’t get what they have been promised for months now ā evidence that Key lied about Dotcom.
Well, they’ve half got it. But it depends on the authenticity of the email. And what happened to the affidavit?
“Yes, the other stuff is incredibly important, but the average person didnāt get what they have been promised for months now ā evidence that Key lied about Dotcom.”
And this is where we are let down by the MSM. Maybe KDC and the IP made mistakes tonight, but the responsibility for conveying the important stuff is not theirs, it’s the media’s. Let’s not forget who the real enemy is here (sorry, just watched part 2 of the Hunger Games).
The whole thing started as Kim promising the evidence that Key knew who he was. Everything else was added later.
Lets hope this is marks the end of the Internet party, dotcom, laila harre et al
yeah then we can all live happily without the truth hurting our discredited liar heroes – oh why can’t we all live on PlanetKey it’s not fair š
Very unlikely. The room was full and very enthusiastic. We were amongst the last to get in and the line was long behind us.
You don’t usually find groups that can fill halls like that disappearing. Note that I have about as much time for IMP as I do for NZF (very little). However I am a realist. If a party has a constituency, then they have a party. If they have a couple of reasonably easy seats to contend for, then they are likely to keep growing that constituency beyond 5%
But by all means, jerk yourself to sleep with your wee fantasy.
Can I ask, is there evidence/indication that Kim Dotcom had anything to do with that leaked email today, or is he contesting that it was his? Was that a smokescreen, and that is why he is taking issue with it?
It’s explained here:
that doesn’t really address the question of whether KDC released the email or not.
No. And they’ve glossed over the email – as with Amsterdam’s statement at the MoT. He buried a reference to it within a statement about Dirty Politics, and the need for a full investigation into the Key government.
My feeling, is something happened between a day or two ago when KDC was talking about his coming big reveal concerning his case and when Key first knew about him, and this evening. It’s a little strange.
theories floating round on twitter, maybe it’s the feeds I’m on but shame about people letting their personal needs for something get in the way of a bloody important event
1. Mostly it was the media putting that spin on it.
2. Lawyers worried about the impact on his case (said several times) would have advised against it.
3. Internet party would have wanted the big issue of mass surveillance targeted rather than a single victim.
Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Whatever the authenticity of the email, I can easily see how the whole Key/Dotcom issue was pushed into the background once Greenwald and Snowden were involved. So it makes sense that they chose to not discuss the email at the event itself, it would have just been a distraction from the more important issue of mass surveillance.
Thanks, it answers my question, that he endorses it and stands behind the assertation that Key got him into the country to extradite him, but I still don’t get why it was released by “a source” from within the Herald, and not by Dotcom himself?
I also think that it was good not to mention it tonight, as I think the focus should be on what Snowdon said, and that should be what Key needs to answer. There are a lot of GCSB issues to unpick, and am glad it didn’t get too sidetracked by KDC.
Always said it: Key is a NorteAmericano Gringo Yankey. Pretty bl**dy obvious all along. Their john is a U$ asset. š
And an NZ$ liability
Is that all the convicted fraudster, the alleged rapist, the US traitor protected by dictatorial regime that shoots down civilian aircraft and hired help fronting as an impartial journalist have
God help the left, what and embarrassment, I guesse a nice little love fest for all who turned up tonight, fish and chip paper by tomorrow night. This little comedy will do more harm to the left who have totally mis read the nz populace
Your description could apply to any number of people and any number of countries ā Malaysia for example.
Free advice for KDC: Under-promise and over-deliver. Not the opposite.
*Yawn*
You would actually have the gall to charge someone for that piece of nonsense?
So when people complain about foreigners interferring with our democracy, do they mean the problem is the foreign bit? ie it’s ok when the VRWC does it, because they’re all keewees.
I.m not sure how to reply to a specific person, so just chucking this in the thread. But in terms of the Southern Cross cable guys saying that they would know if the cable had been tapped, it may be that they are actually getting paid for the service.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10910701
Thanks for the link immiscible.
From the link:
“A Telecom spokesman cited the company’s contract with residential customers, which tells them it will pass on their information without permission if it believes it is legally required to do so or if it is necessary “to help maintain the law”.
Telecom Users Association chief executive Paul Brislen said revelations about US interception of internet traffic meant “we have to assume that all our communications are intercepted“.
He said internet and telecoms companies had to comply with US rules or be shut out of lucrative contracts.
Mr Brislen believed the cable from Auckland to Los Angeles was secure but said intelligence agencies would access information beyond the landing stations.“
Re tapping into fibre optic cables….
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/edward-snowden-reveals-tapping-of-major-australianew-zealand-undersea-telecommunications-cable-20140915-10h96v.html
“Fairfax Media has previously reported on the Australian Signals Directorate’s involvement in the X-Keyscore program and the ASD’s cooperation with Singapore’s Ministry of Defence to tap submarine cables in South East Asia.
The Australian Signals Directorate has also acquired sophisticated technology designed to tap high-speed fibre optic data cables including those that connect Australia with Asia and North America”
Well, after all that, I’m no longer an undecided voter. Thanks Kim Dotcom and Co.
The PM definitely has questions to answer following today and tonight.
Wall Street Journal:
yeah bu’ is ‘e bovvered? does ‘e look bovvered?
lol yeah he does a bit.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/greenwald/
Great night for Key
Bring it on next Saturday , National will govern alone .
Judging by the comments on this site many of you are very disappointed .
You will see what you want to see. Meanwhile, friends I have never seen engaged in politics before are expressing their feelings on social media.
No-one likes tax-payer funded voyeurism, it seems.
Summary fromThe Guardian
New Zealandās election campaign collided with the biggest questions of the internet age on Monday – hereās how this remarkable day went down:
Documents provided by the whistleblower Edward Snowden reveal that the New Zealand government worked to implement a secret mass surveillance program code-named āSpeargunā throughout 2012 and 2013.
It followed an admission at the weekend by the New Zealand prime minister, John Key, that his government considered a mass-spying proposal after a series of cyber attacks. Key says the proposed surveillance made him āuncomfortableā and that he halted it in March 2013.
Edward Snowden has weighed in, warning New Zealanders that he was personally able to search their intercepted internet traffic while working as an NSA analyst in Hawaiāi. āIf you live in New Zealand, you are being watched,ā he wrote.
Key responded by releasing his own declassified documents, which he says prove that no mass spying ever took place.
Snowden has appeared via live stream at Moment of Truth, an Internet party event at Auckland Town Hall intended to publicise the Speargun revelations. Snowden told the audience that the NSAās reach extended even to Auckland, where he claimed the agency operated a spy facility.
Internet entrepreneur Kim Dotcom has pledged to end any mass surveillance of New Zealanders if he fledgling political party wins the balance of power at this Saturdayās general election. āWeāll close one of the five eyes,ā Dotcom said, in reference to the intelligence-sharing agreement between Australia, the US, the UK, New Zealand and Canada.
KDC might be a clown who couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery but hes done us a service exposing this shit and the compulsive lying that’s being going on.
Snowdon was excellent tonight and Greenwald has been solid the last few days.
This is being reported in the SMH, Wall st times and Guardian ie some of the ‘eyes’ who fathom just how significant this all is. Damning for key. Let’s see you bullshit your way out of this one.
NSA Versus Yahoo, and how it operates. Yahoo fined US$250000 per day for not handing over data for Prism.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fine-user-data-refusal
Casey Lucas ā@CaseyDownUnder 7 mins
The @smh coverage: very punchy, strong language, definitive statements. NZ media: lots of weasel words, “he claimed,” “he said.” #MoT
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/edward-snowden-reveals-tapping-of-major-australianew-zealand-undersea-telecommunications-cable-20140915-10h96v.html
Great event.
Very disappointed in the low standard of comment on both TV1 late news and Paul Henry Show. Michelle Boag was an utter embarrassment.
There needs to be a change of government, and a fresh approach.
**Vote for change on Saturday. It is more important than ever.**
An example of a PM and Leader of our country = Norm Kirk
An example of a PM who is not a leader of our country =John Key
So NSA called it Speagun and we called it CORTEX. Getting us to do CORTEX was what they called Speargun?
“he furrowed outer layer of gray matter in the cerebrum of the brain, associated with the higher brain functions, as voluntary movement, coordination of sensory information, learning and memory, and the expression of individuality.”
karol, you were 100% right in the comment yesterday about “business case”.
Why would the cost be redacted, how is that a national security issue do you think?
Because cost would be broadly indicative of how much this government is ‘into’ the whole notion, how much of the New Zealand peoples’ money this government is prepared to spend against the New Zealand people. You can bet if the figures weren’t startling they wouldn’t have been redacted. They’d be used to reinforce “Nah nah nah…….it was one element in a spectrum of matters which we killed, simple as that.”