Students speak on loan cap

46 comments on “Students speak on loan cap ”

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1. Wensleydale 1

   28 May 2015 at 11:37 am

   We can’t have students actually finishing their degrees and graduating. They’d end up being all clever and insightful and stuff. And then they’d probably, if they were paying attention, see through the webs of deceit and chicanery relentlessly woven by this government. Worse, they might remember their less than gentle treatment at the hands of the National Party and harbour some sort of grudge. Terribly inconvenient during an election year, you know.
   • Chooky 1.1

     28 May 2015 at 10:40 pm

     +100 Wensleydale
2. Colonial Rawshark 2

   28 May 2015 at 12:26 pm

   The first four years of tertiary study should be free.

   Giving students more loans so they enter adult life with bigger debts is OK but hardly optimal.
   • r0b 2.1

     28 May 2015 at 12:29 pm

     Yes.
   • Brutus Iscariot 2.2

     28 May 2015 at 3:16 pm

     By “free” you mean “taxpayer funded” right?

     You’d get better results funding vocational/technical training in key areas. New Zealand doesn’t need more BA or “Bachelor of Communications” graduates.

     If university is a crap investment for most people, they just shouldn’t go. I don’t see what’s so difficult about that.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1

       28 May 2015 at 3:20 pm

       Another right winger who thinks education must conform to their personal problems.
       • Brutus Iscariot 2.2.1.1

         28 May 2015 at 4:08 pm

         Yes well, there’s education, and there’s education. I’d argue that a lot of tertiary courses are overstuffed with students learning things that are of limited practical significance – intellectually and otherwise. Of course universities love issuing McDegrees in whatever subjects they can get people into to, it increases their size and prestige.

         Higher education should be both a luxury and an investment – subsidised but not made a free for all.

         A conformist attitude would be thinking that society at large should stump up for everyone to be able to while away the whole of their 20’s chilling in the Uni quad in a stoned haze.
         • Stephanie Rodgers 2.2.1.1.1

           28 May 2015 at 9:23 pm

           I’d argue that a lot of tertiary courses are overstuffed with students learning things that are of limited practical significance

           And “practical significance” is something which can be objectively measured, of course.

           I mean, there’s nothing “practical” about my own degree – English Literature with a side of German. Except that it massively broadened my understanding of our language, of writing and editing, of presenting my interpretation of a text, of thinking critically rather than accepting things at face value … but look, if it doesn’t specifically lead straight into a Proper Job it’s obviously worthless!

           It’s so incredibly dismissive to write off any kind of learning as “impractical” just because you lack the respect and imagination to understand how much it can contribute to a person’s life.
           • Brutus Iscariot 2.2.1.1.1.1

             29 May 2015 at 9:59 am

             I don’t dispute that it contributes a lot to your life.

             You’ll note i said “intellectual and otherwise”. I’d argue your degree has plenty of transferrable skills, as you elucidated.

             FYI i studied Classics and Ancient History at university, a useless subject at face value, however my attitude towards it mirrors yours exactly. My Commerce degree was almost certainly a complete waste of time though – i learned little there that i wouldn’t have learned on the job.

             Too many people are at university marking time who shouldn’t be there, “learning” stuff that doesnt require a 3+ year fulltime study investment paid for by everyone else . The problem is people who just focus on how they want to live their life, and to hell with the productive members of society who have to foot the bill.

             @ OAB, re: having a clue, you come across as a poorly educated loudmouth, who perenially opts for passive-aggressive sniping rather than genuine debate, so i suggest there is a hint of hypocrisy there. Although let it be said that you’re still light years ahead of your companion below. And to challenge his assumptions – university educated with an Honours Arts Degree, 30 years old, no kids.
             • Tracey …

               29 May 2015 at 10:52 am

               where will you get the jobs you need for the say, 25% of school leavers who go on to tertiary that won’t fit your model?
           • Tracey 2.2.1.1.1.2

             29 May 2015 at 10:51 am

             “A conformist attitude would be thinking that society at large should stump up for everyone to be able to while away the whole of their 20’s chilling in the Uni quad in a stoned haze.”

             Joyce took ten years to get a Zoology degree… funny that
         • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1.2

           28 May 2015 at 9:44 pm

           I disagree with Stephanie: to be dismissive of something you have to have a clue about it.
         • Chooky 2.2.1.1.3

           28 May 2015 at 10:37 pm

           University education is an investment for the country…as they well know in Europe where tertiary education it is relatively free….

           It is only in Neolib Anglo Saxon countries where there is an increasing gap between rich and poor that the squeeze is being put on free tertiary education, especially for the middle classes….and these countries are NOT doing well economically or socially…in fact they are getting more fascist

           ….and fascism is the opposite of critical informed thinking and a strong democracy
         • meconism 2.2.1.1.4

           29 May 2015 at 12:26 am

           Hey Brutus, go and take the largest, sharpest, hardest thing you can find and anally fuck yourself with it until the end of time.

           I am currently working, at 12: 22 am with 9 of my peers, on our end of semester assignments for our Masters in Science Communication specialising in Natural History Documentary Film Making to teach the children of ignorant cunts like you that their parents are irresponsible fuck heads who have imperilled the environment and we need to find a better way to live. Got that you talentless gob shite.
           • Tracey 2.2.1.1.4.1

             29 May 2015 at 10:53 am

             Couldn’t you have found a way to write that without the offensive language?
   • Chooky 2.3

     28 May 2015 at 10:22 pm

     ALL tertiary education should be free….and undergrad students should study at their local university unless this university does not have the courses they require….( and those who can not pass the required courses should be required to leave)

     …when I was a student we lived frugally but we had no debt…
     student loans are a debt millstone around young people’s necks
     • Colville. 2.3.1

       29 May 2015 at 9:17 pm

       You mean paid for by someone else when you say free don’t you?

       Nothing is free.

       You just want “free” stuff without working for it.
3. The Fairy Godmother 3

   28 May 2015 at 12:33 pm

   Its embarrassing that my kids uni fees including postgraduate were paid by the family trust. Even then the study doesn’t guarantee a job. Oh for the days when the state paid the fees for the number of graduates actually required in the professions. Rather than funding various institutions to provide more and more courses wasting people’s time and money.
   • Colonial Rawshark 3.1

     28 May 2015 at 12:39 pm

     With the economy as it is now, many of our grads will never make more than $50K pa – and that’s assuming that they can find full time work in NZ.
     • Colville. 3.1.1

       29 May 2015 at 9:20 pm

       So why is the taxpayer funding thousands of people thru Uni if there are no useful jobs for them?

       $50K/yr isnt even a labourers rate on a building site. (at 2 years experience)
4. Tracey 4

   28 May 2015 at 12:38 pm

   I am still wondering what the objection is to medical students being able to opt in to a bond scheme. “We” pay their fees to train (however many years we pay for their study they give us 2 per year in bond to go to certain parts of NZ). No one has to do it. So they have choice. BUT those that do, get posted.

   1 year funding = 2 year bonding

   and so on
   • Puckish Rogue 4.1

     28 May 2015 at 12:45 pm

     I’ve had similar thoughts about military service and study as well, two years service = one years study for example

     Could probably even extend it to working for DOC or similar organisation
     • Tracey 4.1.1

       28 May 2015 at 12:54 pm

       To my knowledge the military still offer it PR.
       • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1

         28 May 2015 at 1:06 pm

         Not really like this though, there is study soldiers can do but its limited to your trade and if the course of study will benefit the military

         For instance someone rocks up and wants to study small business the board will have a look at the cost versus the benefit to the military and will probably get told no and

         I’m suggesting more along the lines of two years service = one years study at the recognized institution of your choice studying whatever you like
         • Tracey 4.1.1.1.1

           28 May 2015 at 1:09 pm

           yes but if you want to be an engineer, a chef, a pilot, a mechanic, a lawyer, a builder, ALL of that is possible through the military.

           BUT you risk being deployed

           I understand the concept you suggest but I won’t support it.
           • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1.1.1.1

             28 May 2015 at 1:32 pm

             Sure but those are trades whereas I’m talking studying at a university (if thats what they want) but don’t you want to make it easier for our military pers to study?

             It can always be extended for other forms of service
             • arkie …

               28 May 2015 at 3:15 pm

               Didn’t you read the post? Engineering? Law?
               Those are professions that require University education.
               • Puckish Rogue …

                 28 May 2015 at 4:09 pm

                 Thats what I’m saying, for example do two years service and you get one years free study at uni studying whatever you want, 4 years service = 2 years all the way upto 6 years service to get three years study

                 and if you’ve got the nous, you’ll have a decent amount saved up that over that time that you can go on and do more study if you choose
                 • Craig H …

                   28 May 2015 at 8:27 pm

                   Just forgive the student loan at a set rate per annum and suspend repayment deductions (voluntary repayments could still be made). The longer the study, the longer the service required to clear it.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     29 May 2015 at 10:48 am

                     I think it’d be better to do the service first and study second, easier to implement and keep track off
                 • Tracey …

                   29 May 2015 at 10:54 am

                   what is it about the military service that attracts you to this idea?
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     29 May 2015 at 11:06 am

                     Its not just military service you could do this for, you could also work it in with DOC for example but really its about showing appreciation to those in put thmeselves in the (literal) firing lines

                     Most people that join (especially in the enlisted ranks) come from lower socio-economic groupings and see the military as a way to better their circumstances, which is true

                     So why not reward them for their duty by some tertiary study?
           • Chooky 4.1.1.1.1.2

             28 May 2015 at 10:26 pm

             yes well free study wont help if you get killed or permanently incapacitated in Iraq of course….as many a working class USA solder has found
             • Puckish Rogue …

               29 May 2015 at 10:32 am

               Yes well when you look at the amount of pers going vs the amount of pers not going its a very small amount, 143 troops going out of a possible 6500.

               Its also voluntary and you’ll find that most, if not all, are quite keen to go.

               Since there is the possibility of getting killed or permanently incapacitated then it would seem reasonable to allow pers the chance to study what they want doesn’t it

               Also this is NZ not the USA
               • Tracey …

                 29 May 2015 at 10:56 am

                 Why do we need the military service bit Puck? Why not just offer bonded service in return for waived fees? It would then be targeted to professions/trades with shortages and to shortages in the regions of quality people in certain professions/trades? What exactly is the social gain of having folks be in the military, the payback you have in mind?
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   29 May 2015 at 11:17 am

                   Easier to implement would be my first answer and then its a good reward for peoples service

                   I’m not saying you can’t do it in other areas, I’m saying you can do this in this area and it will be rather simple to implement

                   I realise theres a lot of irrational, naive dislike (if not outright hatred) of the armed services in NZ but most people don’t seem to realise that a great deal (if not most) of the people that join are those from poorer areas and are simply trying to improve their lots in life
                   • Tracey …

                     29 May 2015 at 1:43 pm

                     My question has NOTHING to do with ” irrational, naive dislike (if not outright hatred) of the armed services in NZ” but to do with what your thinking is around what the military service adds, or are you saying it is for people inclined toward the military who want to train on top, cos that is already there. Therefore you must be thinking of it as a way to draw people to military service and I am asking why, what is it about it that wants you to draw people to it in return for training?

                     I don’t think it would be cheaper to set up. The opposite cos we would be paying food, accommodation and training costs for many more people. Bonding on the other hand only pays for the education part.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     29 May 2015 at 2:48 pm

                     I’m not saying it primarily as an enticement to join (though it could be used) but as a tangible reward for people who serve

                     Also I’m not saying they stay in while they study but they take up the study when they leave and it’d be up to them to take up the study when they want

                     Sure you may not dislike the military but you only have to read through a few of the posts on here to see what I’m talking about
               • Chooky …

                 29 May 2015 at 4:09 pm

                 @PR re “Its also voluntary and you’ll find that most, if not all, are quite keen to go.”

                 …yes but not quite so keen once they are killed or maimed …they and their families think it was a very bad deal…and feel conned ….and have considerable regrets…it is a devils bargain!

                 ….dont you think it is disgracefully immoral that working class people should have to put their lives on the line to get a good education?!

                 …I think yours is a disgraceful case of neolib brainwashing!

                 …education is a right !….for all of humanity!
               • Chooky …

                 29 May 2015 at 4:24 pm

                 @ PR …when i say “maimed” i also mean psychologically maimed as in post traumatic stress disorders ( and it is very bad for your education!)

                 ….you wont get the politicians sending off their sons/daughters to war in order to get a good education

                 ….why should the working class be sent off to war to pay for their education?…this is shockingly immoral….are the workling class less human?….do they have less human rights.?…this is what you are arguing
5. Andy Robinson 5

   28 May 2015 at 1:05 pm

   Here is the full playlist…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pN8_-L3qRc&list=PLjkJUO3mhB0e13_pwK1n3ZFl6ekvyCYh2
6. Sable 6

   29 May 2015 at 10:13 am

   Education is for the rich not the masses but we still pay taxes to cover a good portion of the cost nonetheless.
   • Tracey 6.1

     29 May 2015 at 10:58 am

     Not in the classes I am currently teaching. I suspect out of my classes, given the experiences they share as we do case studies no more than 10% come from even middle class homes.
7. kiwigunner 7

   29 May 2015 at 10:48 am

   Something has gone terribly wrong when there are few jobs for kids leaving school, employers harp on about needing trained and experienced people (forgetting their obligation to do some of this) universities are underfunded to the extent that fees keep rising and after three years most kids studying have $30k’s debt. Just who is getting all the taxes we pay?
8. KiwiPilot 8

   29 May 2015 at 12:50 pm

   I’m having the same trouble with caps on pilot training. Over 100 thousand dollars in debt and I can’t get funding to finish the last part of my course. I am currently trying to borrow 30 thousand dollars from somewhere simply to finish.

   It’s hard enough trying to get your first job in the industry which will pay very little but may provide a pathway to a proper career. I don’t expect everything to be handed to me on a platter and I don’t mind paying back my loan. I’ve already been offered some opportunities but cannot consider them until I finish the final part of my training and it’s just extremely hard to cough up 30 thousand dollars just to get my diploma (especially while trying to manage the cost of living in Auckland). All the while every time I have to take a break in my flying to sort out funds I lose a bit of currency in my flying skills.

   The flight schools of course are losing students because average people don’t have piles of money lying around and they are looking to fill the gap with students from overseas. Airlines have also previously suggested putting pilots on immigration’s skill shortage list. I understand the request to put pilots on the skill shortage list was put down but basically overseas students will be able to gain a pathway to residence through pilot training, an opportunity which is being denied to many ordinary kiwis who aren’t rich.

   Now if these cuts were unfair but could produce a budget surplus that would be one thing. But they aren’t even achieving that.
   • Tracey 8.1

     29 May 2015 at 1:44 pm

     Not being smart, but did you try doing it through the air force?

     I know a few pilots and all of them came from very wealthy familes who paid for the enormous hours of training required.

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