Written By: - Date published: 5:36 pm, January 24th, 2008 - 96 comments
Categories: MMP, same old national -
Tags: electoral law, hollow men, MMP, national, peter shirtcliffe, rod donald, same old national
After Brash and the extreme right were exposed in The Hollow Men the Nats changed their leader hoping for a fresh start.
What’s becoming apparent is that National’s shady backers haven’t changed. The policy and the cash are coming from the same people they always have – people like Peter Shirtcliffe who’s evidently now helping to finance National Party activists David Farrar and Cameron Slater in their campaign against the Electoral Finance Act.
Shirtcliffe’s been around a while. In 1993 he launched the “Campaign for Better Government” – a right-wing business lobby group opposing the introduction of MMP.
Rod Donald had this to say about Shirtcliffe and his aggressive campaign:
On ANZAC day 1993 a full page advertisement appeared in the major Sunday paper attacking MMP. Inserted by Peter Shirtcliffe, chairman of Telecom, New Zealand’s largest company, it marked the beginning of a David and Goliath battle that went to the wire… he announced the formation of his Campaign for Better Government (CBG), the opening of an office and the appointment of paid staff.
CBG’s campaign strategy eclipsed the [Electoral Reform Coalition's]. They conducted market research, used direct mail and paid for radio talkback programmes. A confidential report from their market research company somehow made it on to the front page of a weekly business paper. It was a blueprint for an anti-MMP advertising campaign targeting “the least educated and most gullible” sectors of the electorate by providing “easily digestible, alarming material” warning electors of the consequences of MMP [my emphasis].
In the clip below you can see the kind of material that Shirtcliffe and his mates favoured – complete with crying babies, grainy black and white and staticy sound effects.
With Shirtcliffe back in on the act and the Nats dreaming of governing alone you have to wonder how long it’ll be before the next assault on MMP.
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Interesting that you need to go back 15 years to find something to attack on.
You can’t keep living in the past (mind you the last 8 years have done us bugger all good – even your mate Winston Bauble looks poised to jump the Waka if yesterdays press release is anything to go by).
Robinsod,
Just look at the voting trend since MMP came in in 1996.
There has only been 2 CIR’s since 1996 both were rejected by the current GOVT.
The people don’t feel they have any power. So they stop voting. This is why I say that a few binding Referedums would be a start to fixing the problem.
“I believe we need to find ways to bring the debate back to a proper discussion of policies.”
Is this you personal contribution to that?
http://newzblog.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/pig-fucking/#comments
targeting “the least educated and most gullible”
and the Hollowmen know the electorate can’t count on the 4th Estate to educate or inform the electorate elsewise.
Billy – if you read that post you’ll see that it is about analysing and busting spin. But thanks for reminding me about that – I’ll add to my earlier comment that I believe people also need to be made aware of how spin is constructed and how to decode it.
So anyway Billy, just what is it about that post that upsets you?
oh dear
Nothing upsets me about it. It just seems a bit rich for you of all people to be lecturing about the standard of debate. It’s like James Sleep lecturing on spelling or the bean on humour.
While we’re on Johnson, my favourite story (before I heard the pig fucker one) was the story about Johnson insisting that his secretary of soemthing (state?) brief him while Johnson was taking a dump.
Prophet – I doubt anyone’s concerned about Cameron Slater crying to the electoral commission. He’s a threat to no one but himself and the national party.
Billy – I’ve heard a similar story involving Mike Moore and a visiting ambassador. The man’s a good laugh but he could be a right pig at the best of times. Best not tell IP though
Billy – I certainly get involved in the shit-slinging on the blogs but I also try to occasionally add to the debate. I figure that post did so in that it used rather blue hyperbole to deconstruct the flawed argument that was being thrown around by IP and other righties.
Now I could have done it in a more moderate way but bro, it’s been very well read according to our stats and I’d say that’s because of its shock value and the fact that so many of you have posted and reposted it with (transparent) faux-outrage. I trust my readers to be smart enough to see the point I’m making. You righties seem to think they are stupid enough to get stuck on the expletives and be outraged by it. That’s why you post it and that’s why it’s being well read. Thanks.
This is off topic, but then again, this thread seems to have been completely lost to the trolls.
Standard peoples, have you considered doing a post or series of posts on Disaster Capitalism?
http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine
I do not remember expressing outrage, faux or otherwise. That’s only because I am not outraged. Sorry to disappoint.
I do not have a problem with you “shit-slinging on the blogs”. I find it quite fun. Nor do I have a problem with IP and others who can sting a sentence together doing so.
It just seems a little inconsistent to then turn around and say we need a higher level of debate.
James Kearney attacks WhaleOil in the following terms:
“Cameron Slater’s a moron and he’s famous for photoshopping James Sleep’s face onto gay porn.”
Like apprentice pillow biter James Sleep didn’t deserve to be “outed” …
MMP stands for “More Marxists in Parliament.”
Since this retarded electoral system was adopted (remembering it was sold to the public that there would be a further referendum on whether it would be continued after a trial period), we have seen a raft of unregenerate Communists enter Parliament on party lists.
None of these people would stand an icicle’s hope in hell of getting elected to an electorate seat under their own banners: Sue Bradford (Workers Communist League), Keith Locke (CPNZ and Socialist Action League), Matt Robson (Socialist Action League) being the most readily identifiable.
Imagine the outcry if a National or ACT MP were revealed to have been a member of a Neo-Nazi organisation during their student days. And yet a raft of Commies on the other side of the House are given a free pass, probably because many of our media contingent were cheerleaders for that self-same ideology during their student days.
As well, a raft of unelectable (under FPP)union hacks (many of them Communists too) have made it into Parliament on the Liarbour Party list.
A bare majority (53.4% of New Zealanders) supporting MMP would never been achieved if the public hadn’t believed it would later have the chance to vote it out. Nor would New Zealanders have voted for MMP if they’d had advance warning of the political backgrounds of many of the MPs that would be on party lists.
Michele, “New Zealanders” don’t share your pathological and irrational hatred of people with communist or socialist backgrounds or ideologies; stop assuming as such and you’ll lend yourself a smidgen of credibility. I had a shot for you:
“None of these people would stand an icicle’s hope in hell of getting votes for an electorate seat from the extreme right under their own banners: Sue Bradford (Workers Communist League), Keith Locke (CPNZ and Socialist Action League), Matt Robson (Socialist Action League) being the most readily identifiable.
As well, a raft of unelectable (in the eyes of the average RWNJ) union hacks (many of them Communists too) have made it into Parliament on the Liarbour Party list.
Nor would the extreme right have voted for MMP if they’d had advance warning of the political backgrounds of many of the MPs that would be on party lists.”
See, not that hard to make your comments true and readable!
Seriously though, when you mention that schools have brainwashed every one apart from the Select Few, such as yourself (someting of a Master Race I assume), it’s then completely illigocal to assume someone with your views can express an opinion and assume that it speaks for “New Zealanders”.
Maybe one in a thousand; I hope it’s far fewer.
And two of the above (Bradford, Robson) continue supporting socialist Labour in its attempts to re-engineer society.
Robson publishes “research” on the web that is resembles red propaganda more than any thing. What can be add to Bradford’s list of demerits? From bludger to MP, enough said.
Re: commnets about STV being better than MMP.
Prbolems with STV are that it doesn’t guarantee proprtionality, in fact there is little evidence that results are different under STV than they are under FPP.
Moreover, STV results in high levels of informal voting around 10% – any voting system that will result in one in ten voters attempting to vote but being unable to because their vote doesn’t satisfy the formal requirements of a vote is problematic.
What can be add to Bradford’s list of demerits? From bludger to MP, enough said.
You’ve really got no idea of Bradford’s background have you? Hint: she was educated at Marsden Girls. Moron.
Michele Cabiling, congratulations. you’ve shown yourself to be nothing more than a poisonous little trollop with your bagging of Hone Tuwhare in todays dompost.
No. I don’t remember that. Care to enlighten?
Matthew Pillock re-writes my earlier post in the following terms:
“None of these people would stand an icicle’s hope in hell of getting votes for an electorate seat from the extreme right under their own banners: Sue Bradford (Workers Communist League), Keith Locke (CPNZ and Socialist Action League), Matt Robson (Socialist Action League) being the most readily identifiable.”
When Matt Robson stood in the 1975 General Election under the banner of the Socialist Action League, he received less than 100 votes. Oh, I get it, all those blue collar workers were brainwashed by the hegemonic forces of capitalism into voting against their class interests.
“As well, a raft of unelectable (in the eyes of the average RWNZ) union hacks (many of them Communists too) have made it into Parliament on the Liarbour Party list.”
More hegemonic brainwashing, right?
“Nor would the extreme right have voted for MMP if they’d had advance warning of the political backgrounds of many of the MPs that would be on party lists.”
Funny how leftards are big time supporters of democracy when it throw up outcomes they agree with, and implacably opposed to it when it doesn’t.
Even the workers distrust authoritarian socialism and have never supported it. The average working man is too busy accumulating capital and getting on with life to allow himself to be used as cannon fodder in a bloody socialist revolution.
Socialism has only ever exercised the tiny minds of academics. Truly “the opiate of the intellectuals.”
Right Michele, and you only support an electoral system if it supports your desired outcomes.
If Robson was unelectable, the Alliance party vote would have dropped markedly when he was put fairly high up on the Alliance list in 1999 right?
I mean if there’s no way he’d win an electorate seat, people sure as hell would think twice about voting for his party, when he was virtually assured of a seat, right?
Or are you saying the public is too stupid to look at a party list when deciding which party to vote for?
“Funny how leftards are big time supporters of democracy when it throw up outcomes they agree with, and implacably opposed to it when it doesn’t.”
More substance less bullshit please.
“Even the workers distrust authoritarian socialism and have never supported it. The average working man is too busy accumulating capital and getting on with life to allow himself to be used as cannon fodder in a bloody socialist revolution.”
As I pointed out earlier, your extremist views are very rarely encountered, no small blessing might I add, but it’s deeply cynical for you to pretend you know what the “average working man” supports.
You wouldn’t know a socialist revolution if it Nationalised your means of production, created a classless society, and set fire to your sock puppet.
Wow, michelle, you’ve really dropped any pretense at debate and put on the flame-resistant armour haven’t you?
Why do you even post here?
Is it just to be a troll?
Matthew Pillock repeats my statement:
“Even the workers distrust authoritarian socialism and have never supported it. The average working man is too busy accumulating capital and getting on with life to allow himself to be used as cannon fodder in a bloody socialist revolution.”
then calls my views “extremist.”
Repeat after me ding-bat, “a label is not an argument.”
I’m merely reporting the collective views of Western workers. Why do you think openly Communist candidates have never been elected to a New Zealand Parliament? Why do you think there has never been a Communist revolution?
With respect to the fact that the Alliance (with a number of undeclared Communists on its party list) cracked the MMP threshhold, MP says “[A]re you saying the public is too stupid to look at a party list when deciding which party to vote for?”
No, I’m not saying that, but had the political antecedents of prominent Alliance and Green Party list MPs had been more widely known, I suggest that MMP election results may well have proved quite different.
repeat after me, my ray of sunshine, “a label is not an argument.”
Even the workers (label 1 – worker) distrust authoritarian socialism (label 2 – authoritarian socialism) and have never supported it. The average working man (label 3 – average working man) is too busy accumulating capital and getting on with life to allow himself to be used as cannon fodder (label 4 – cannon fodder) in a bloody socialist (label 5 – socialist) revolution.
What a stunning load of generalisms and half-arsed assumptions.
Authoritarian socialism now exists only in your mind and a few pariah states. Ask the “average working man” if they support the concept of state housing for people on lower incomes, a public health and education system, a social welfare system, national insurance and nationalised assets of national importance, and you’ll get your answer.
I like your referral to a bloody socualist revolution though, reminds me of my school and early uni days, before I grew out of it.
Why do I think there has never been a communist revolution or candidates elected on a Communiust Party ticket in New Zealand? Open your eyes Michele! An extremist view needn’t represent the whole – and I’m not talking about your views of limitedd government. You fail to take the step beyond the failed socialist revolutions that led to the Cold War, and see how the ideas can be implemented without the entire subversion of the Government, State and People.
That failing is yours alone.
Ok, lets look at voting patterns.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/draco1337/voting.jpg
Source: Jack Vowles, NZ Government & Politics, pg 319 (sorry for the poor quality – the scanner is seeing through the page, I’ve marked 1993 onwards for clarity)
Overall voting turnout has decreased since 1949. There was an upsurge from 1978 through 1984. This can easily be explained by the economic stress that the country was going through at the time. That surge was completely lost by 1990. 1993 saw a small return of voters. 1996 (The first MMP election) saw a small upsurge which was lost again in 1999 with a further fall in 2002. 2005 saw what was lost in 2002 regained.
1984 was the election of the 4th Labour government and the beginning of the unpopular neo-liberal reforms. The government not listening to the people could easily account for the drop in voter turnout in 1987 and 1990. The people certainly wouldn’t have been feeling any power as first the 4th Labour government and then the 4th National government paid them no heed. The first MMP election saw a small upturn as hope of the government listening to the people returned. This hope was smashed on the farce that was the National/NZ First government. 1999 saw the election of the Labout/Alliance government which saw small changes in policy which could be more likened to reefing the sails against the storm of popular opinion rather than a change in tack. Voter turnout continued it’s decline in 2002. 2005 saw another surge taking voter turnout above the 1999 turnout. This latest upsurge could be a result a expectation that the government needs to listen to the people and that people are feeling a return of power or it could just be a generational glitch.
At the moment I would say that it is far to early to even guess at what difference that MMP has had on voter turnout.
mmp has offered the best defence against the rights attempts to disband all government scocial costs and annihilate all social netwrks except their own. Its a bit like religion or rock music accounting or diving entrails. ‘it aint like it used to be but it’ll do’…the old man in the last scene of the ‘wild bunch’.