Convoy protest 3/3/22

187 comments on “Convoy protest 3/3/22 ”

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1. The Chairman 1

   3 March 2022 at 7:39 am

   Now that the protest has been brought to an end, thus an end to the illegal activity on parliament grounds, will Jacinda now engage?
   • Incognito 1.1

     3 March 2022 at 7:49 am

     I have it on good authority that the PM will not engage with you. Did you know about the interview(s) yesterday with Chris Hipkins about mandates? Or did you choose to ignore it because it does not suit your narrative?
     • The Chairman 1.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 8:12 am

       I have it on good authority that the PM will not engage with you.

       Wasn't asking if she will engage with me. I was asking if she will now engage with the protester's representative?

       Yes, I seen the interview with Hipkins and I'm also aware of the legal ultimatum the Government faces via Matthew Hague.

       https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-faces-ultimatum-end-mandates-and-vaccine-passes-now

       Nevertheless, I've also seen the report where Jacinda cautioned that the traffic light system was likely to remain in place for the winter to combat not just Covid, but the return of the flu.

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-omicron-jacinda-ardern-plots-path-to-end-of-some-vaccine-mandates-but-warns-omicron-wave-will-hit-first/T5WKTX7MHCF3A6XKJOG63TUSUI/
       • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.1

         3 March 2022 at 8:25 am

         Which "protesters' representative" are you imagining the PM "engaging" with, and what would that "engagement" consist of?
         • Hongi Ika 1.1.1.1.1

           3 March 2022 at 8:30 am

           The Sex Offenders with Ankle Bracelets.
         • Andrew 1.1.1.1.2

           3 March 2022 at 8:43 am

           I think he means all of the doctors and ICU nurses who were at the protest.

           I mean, you can see that the protest was just full of them.
         • The Chairman 1.1.1.1.3

           3 March 2022 at 9:22 am

           Which "protesters' representative" are you imagining the PM "engaging" with…

           Former Sensible Sentencing Trust spokesman Scott Guthrie.

           What would that "engagement" consist of?

           Their concerns.
           • Psycho Milt 1.1.1.1.3.1

             3 March 2022 at 9:58 am

             Has anyone asked Guthrie if he really wants to represent arsonists and brick-throwers?
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 10:14 am

               I doubt he will be representing them as such. He'll be representing the nonviolent majority. Are you suggesting they be ignored?

               And if so, what good do you see coming from that Government inaction?
               • Psycho Milt …

                 3 March 2022 at 12:35 pm

                 So, he wouldn't be representing anyone who was still at the protest yesterday afternoon. It makes the question of who exactly he'd be representing a bit difficult to answer. And in representing this unidentified group, he'd have to cherry-pick what that representation consisted of. For example, there wouldn't be much point in asking the PM to "engage" with demands she and others be subjected to modern-day Nuremberg trials for allegedly carrying out genetic experiments on the NZ population.

                 As to what good would come from govt inaction, it would make it clear that no the NZ govt isn't going to take anyone's anti-vaxx conspiracy theories seriously, thanks.
           • weka 1.1.1.1.3.2

             3 March 2022 at 10:31 am

             Former Sensible Sentencing Trust spokesman Scott Guthrie.

             Please link to his statements about yesterday.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 12:09 pm

               I'm not aware he issued one. I was merely expressing my opinion
               • weka …

                 3 March 2022 at 1:00 pm

                 and lots of people here are telling you there was a problem with the protest, not just yesterday. So if you honestly expect the government to talk to movement leaders you will have to do better than throw out some random name as a spokesperson.
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 1:45 pm

                   And lots of people here are telling you there was a problem with the protest, not just yesterday.

                   Yes, that was why the Government refused to engage. The protest has been brought to an end so those problems no longer exist.

                   So what is Jacinda's excuse now for not engaging?

                   A random name as a spokesperson.

                   It wasn't a random name. He already offered to represent them.

                   Mallard said former Sensible Sentencing Trust spokesman Scott Guthrie had been put up as a negotiator but Mallard made it clear there would be no negotiations.

                   https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/127903955/four-arrests-at-parliament-occupation-numbers-continue-to-shrink
                   • weka …

                     3 March 2022 at 2:40 pm

                     the problems do still exist. People publicly and repeatedly made death and insurrection threats against MPs and journalists. Why should the PM talk with that movement exactly?

                     It wasn't a random name. He already offered to represent them.

                     So? In what way does he represent the movement, and how has he fronted up to the problems within the movement?
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 3:16 pm

                   The problems do still exist.

                   Could very well be. But it's no longer happening on parliament grounds, which was the gripe.

                   Should the Government fail to talk to the unions because some have made threats?

                   Moreover, failing to talk to the calmer heads won't help put this to bed. Thus, risks playing into the hands of those that want to stir up shit.

                   So? In what way does he represent the movement, and how has he fronted up to the problems within the movement?

                   As said above, he had been put up as a negotiator. Not to solve problems within the group.
       • Incognito 1.1.1.2

         3 March 2022 at 8:30 am

         https://www.dictionary.com/browse/you

         Indeed, the Courts constitutes one legal avenue to overturn specific mandates. The PM would not be involved in legal proceedings either.

         The traffic light system is not the same as the mandates, but nice try.

         https://covid19.govt.nz/traffic-lights/covid-19-protection-framework/
         • The Chairman 1.1.1.2.1

           3 March 2022 at 8:58 am

           There are places where vaccination for workers is required, for example within the border, health, disability, education sectors, and at hospitality, events, gyms and close-proximity businesses.

           It is also required for businesses that are using My Vaccine Pass for their customers.

           https://covid19.govt.nz/traffic-lights/covid-19-protection-framework/

           The above is from the link you. provided.

           As you can see, mandates are part of the traffic light system.
           • Incognito 1.1.1.2.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 10:14 pm

             As you can see, mandates are part of the traffic light system.

             Yes, of course they are, a small tool in the overall framework and by no means the foundation or a cornerstone.

             Your obsession with mandates has made you focus on them so much with your magnifying glass that they’re now burnt onto your retina and now you’re blinded to anything else. No wonder you cannot see this.
       • Red Blooded One 1.1.1.3

         3 March 2022 at 8:57 am

         I would rather see her engage with the thousands of volunteers (as i suspect she will do) who are offering to help clean up after the pooh flingers, brick throwers and fire starters. The rubbish is being cleaned today, the trash was thrown out yesterday, any people whose priority was a genuine concern that they had to make choices about vaccines, I suspect left days ago.
         • The Chairman 1.1.1.3.1

           3 March 2022 at 9:19 am

           Any people whose priority was a genuine concern that they had to make choices about vaccines, I suspect left days ago.

           They may have left days ago, but their concerns remain.

           Time to start talking.

           If the Government continues to rule out discussions, leaving no opportunity to talk, what do you think the protesters are going to do next?
           • Muttonbird 1.1.1.3.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 9:34 am

             What do you think the protesters are going to do next?

             They could always go get vaccinated. Back at work in three weeks. Problem solved.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 10:08 am

               They could always go get vaccinated.

               Are you not aware of the harm the vaccine has caused for some of them?
               • Muttonbird …

                 3 March 2022 at 10:24 am

                 Reaction to a vaccine is normal. It's part of what is required to be protected against disease. You need to be a bit brave about it for sure.

                 These people aren't protesting against vaccine harm. Their heads are full of conspiracy theory, science denial, and eradication of government.
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 12:39 pm

                   These people aren't protesting against vaccine harm

                   That is one of the reasons they want to end the mandates.

                   Furthermore, we aren't merely talking about a reaction, we are talking serious harm that some have suffered.
                   • Muttonbird …

                     3 March 2022 at 12:47 pm

                     1. I thought they want the mandates ended because they have chosen to not be able to work and it is now inconveniencing them.
                     2. You should be able to get an exemption if you are at risk from the Covid vaccine. The fact not many are given exemptions is proof the risk is all in their head.
                   • Shanreagh …

                     3 March 2022 at 12:50 pm

                     That is one of the reasons they want to end the mandates.

                     Sorry my last set of mind reading tools that came with my vaccine did not work, so I sent them back. I am therefore unable to work out what you are meaning when you state the above in relation to the comment by MB.."These people aren't protesting against vaccine harm'

                     Why would MB comments invoke a response from you about this being a reason to end the mandates?

                     Did you ask them if they had worked with their Drs to get doses/types etc that would help them? Or exemptions etc etc.

                     Or did you just believe what they were saying. What about the ones who think about trackers, that Covid the disease was being injected……how did you manage to rationalise those ideas……or did you go with an unquestioning mind?
                   • The Chairman …

                     3 March 2022 at 1:01 pm

                     @ Mutton

                     Not being able to work is another reason mandates are being opposed.

                     You should be able to get an exemption if you are at risk from the Covid vaccine.

                     One would like to think so, but some have found that is not necessarily the case.
                   • McFlock …

                     3 March 2022 at 2:22 pm

                     You should be able to get an exemption if you are at risk from the Covid vaccine.

                     One would like to think so, but some have found that is not necessarily the case.

                     While there might be a gap between the demonstrable level of risk after (x-billion doses) that justifies an exemption and the actual absence of any non-trivial risk (especially compared to covid), I suspect for most of that "some people" the risk is in the same place as all the kids who have been killed by the vaccine: Imaginationland.
               • left for dead …

                 3 March 2022 at 10:42 am

                 @the armchair man, "are you not aware of the harm" covid has caused for the world.
               • Shanreagh …

                 3 March 2022 at 12:31 pm

                 How can they have harm if they refuse to have the vaccine…..are they crystal ball gazers?

                 Have they had the harm documented by GPs/specialists and exemptions sought? No I didn't think so.

                 The two friends I have one extremely immuno compromised and the other hugely affected by an respiratory disease worked with their Drs, who knew of their illnesses etc and are now both fully vaccinated. This required a joint effort by both to work with and in the system so they could get the vaccines and doses that were optimum for themselves.

                 I suspect a degree of self diagnosis and that their Drs do not know of this or cannot support it.
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 12:53 pm

                   How can they have harm if they refuse to have the vaccine

                   You are trying to group all the protesters together. Some have refused to be vaccinated. Some have had a shot and have been harmed. Some have had all their shots but oppose the mandating of them coupled with their opposition to the segregation.

                   Have they had the harm documented by GPs/specialists and exemptions sought?

                   Some have. I know of one that has also died, thus won't be seeking an exemption.

                   I suspect a degree of self diagnosis and that their Drs do not know of this or cannot support it.

                   There may be some like that. I personally know of one that their doctor wouldn't address it. Saying he had a patient that was harmed far far worse and couldn't even obtain an exemption for them. Thus, he suspected applying was pointless.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     3 March 2022 at 1:19 pm

                     "You are trying to group all the protesters together"

                     Funny!

                     The protesters grouped themselves together, literally, in Wellington.
                   • Muttonbird …

                     3 March 2022 at 1:37 pm

                     Yeah, which group was throwing bricks at the Police?
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     3 March 2022 at 1:41 pm

                     Not the brickies.

                     The three yoga-mums have made themselves temporarily famous for their brick-lifting involvement.
             • Hongi Ika …

               3 March 2022 at 10:08 am

               New Protest in Christchurch I hear it is going to be bigger and better than Wellington so I hear, hopefully the Council and Government will not let it escalate like they did with the Wellington Protest.
               • Robert Guyton …

                 3 March 2022 at 11:55 am

                 Will they also be chanting, "peace and love" , claiming that they are peaceful protesters?
                 • Shanreagh …

                   3 March 2022 at 12:34 pm

                   You left out welcoming the yoga Mums for their cobblestone wrenching abilities to supply those in the front line, and of course the ones who want to have fun burning stuff.

                   \sarc.
                   • Matiri …

                     3 March 2022 at 1:34 pm

                     Yoga Mums are the new Landscape Gardeners!
                   • mac1 …

                     3 March 2022 at 2:36 pm

                     Those three were unbelievable. One of those three was protecting her nice clean white-trousered knees whilst lifting concrete paving bricks to be thrown by others to cause injury and worse.

                     Clean knees whilst facilitating blood and broken bones? There is an enormous disconnect in that image.

                     The same disconnect is found between mad beliefs and reason, between stupid actions and horrible consequences.
   • observer 1.2

     3 March 2022 at 9:18 am

     The word you need to find today is "Sorry".

     If you want to "engage", that's where you start.
     • The Chairman 1.2.1

       3 March 2022 at 9:25 am

       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRh_vgS2dFE
   • left_forward 1.3

     4 March 2022 at 8:32 am

     She's already engaged, isn't she?
2. Sanctuary 2

   3 March 2022 at 8:00 am

   Now this is has been concluded, it is worth remembering some of those down there had all their possessions at that camp site. I don't know what the weather is doing in Wellington but it was 10 degrees at 6am here in Auckland. Autumn is upon us. We need to make sure that people displaced from parliament have warmth, shelter and a hot meal.

   The various agent provocateurs who fled the scene or stayed safely behind their keyboards need now to be hunted down and prosecuted to the full extent of the law allowable.
   • Peter 2.1

     3 March 2022 at 9:49 am

     Surely the meal providers of Wellington operating in recent weeks at Parliament will continue to feed the homeless as they've been doing.

     There's a guy who makes small houses who has shower blocks on wheels, he'll come to the party with accommodation.
   • Sanctuary 2.2

     3 March 2022 at 12:41 pm

     the fools lying wounded in no mans land are of little interest to the chateau generals who try to "lead" them.
3. Jenny how to get there 3

   3 March 2022 at 8:01 am

   After weeks of abusing the public, and testing the patience of the authorities, these crybabies run to the authorities to lay a complaint against a bus driver who ejected them from his bus, when they tried to board it without a mask.

   …..A video sent to Stuff shows three protesters attempting to board, claiming to have a mask exemption, the bus driver asking them to leave before forcefully pushing one protester off the bus and closing the doors.

   Passengers can be heard telling the protesters to "get off the bus" or “put a mask on” as many "just want[ed] to go home”.

   Wellington student Stacia Haitana was on the mostly full bus, when two protesters not wearing masks attempted to board the service.

   Haitana said those aboard the bus were supportive of the driver's actions. “They had to be forcefully removed. I don’t think they would have left had the bus driver not taken that action or anyone else on the bus.”…

   Investigation under way after maskless protesters are forcefully removed from Wellington bus by driver

   Gianina Schwanecke16:22, Feb 24 2022

   Bus driver hero protects passengers from maskless protesters.

   Passengers cheer and clap.

   There, fixed it.
   • Anne 3.1

     3 March 2022 at 9:04 am

     Thanks for that story Jhtgt.

     Its indicative of the fact 90% of the population is firmly against these anti-vaxxers and their related ilk.
     • The Chairman 3.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 9:40 am

       Poll suggests 30pct support parliament protest

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018831042/poll-suggests-30pct-support-parliament-protest
       • Grey Area 3.1.1.1

         3 March 2022 at 9:50 am

         That poll was of 525 people on 18 Feb. It would interesting to re-take it after yesterday's riot.
         • The Chairman 3.1.1.1.1

           3 March 2022 at 10:02 am

           Yesterday's riot was a result of the police actions. If the police didn't enter in the manner they did, I highly doubt we would have witnessed such an outburst.

           Moreover, as the police admit, those involved in the outburst were a small number. Thus, it shouldn't tar the wider group or put off their wider support.
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 10:30 am

             250 odd isn't a small number.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 12:08 pm

               250 odd isn't a small number.

               I think 150 was the hardcore number the commissioner pointed too.

               Nevertheless (whether 150 or 250) the number pales in comparison to the thousands that went through there coupled together with those supporting them from home or at the other protests around the country.
           • Grey Area 3.1.1.1.1.2

             3 March 2022 at 10:37 am

             "Thus, it shouldn't tar the wider group or put off their wider support".

             Of course it will. But then you already know that.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 12:13 pm

               Of course it will

               I have no doubt that the tarring of the wider group is the objective of some.

               But one would have to be rather dumb to fall for that game.
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.3

             3 March 2022 at 10:40 am

             Thus, it shouldn't tar the wider group or put off their wider support.

             If the wider group front up now and admit that those people were part of the protest all along and the wider group didn't do anything about it, then maybe.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 12:11 pm

               I think it was evident the wider group (which were largely holding the hardcore back) departed, the police actions was going to result in the outburst.
               • weka …

                 3 March 2022 at 12:17 pm

                 I know what you think. I'm saying, in response to your idea that the wider group shouldn't be tarred by yesterday, that they can now front up about their own involvement.
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 12:28 pm

                   That they can now front up about their own involvement.

                   The wider group weren't involve in yesterday's outburst. So I'm unsure what you are trying to say?
           • Robert Guyton 3.1.1.1.1.4

             3 March 2022 at 11:57 am

             "Thus, it shouldn't tar the wider group or put off their wider support."

             It does though.

             Its surely does.

             Future "antivaxx-anti-mandate" protesters will be regarded by the general public as dangerous and deluded.

             They've spoiled it for themselves.
             • The Chairman …

               3 March 2022 at 12:25 pm

               Future "antivaxx-anti-mandate" protesters will be regarded by the general public as dangerous and deluded.

               That's a dangerous path for the country to go down. Thus, those attempting to tar them (the wider group) in such a way (knowingly or not) are pushing a dangerous agenda.

               We don't want NZ to become a dangerous police state.
               • Incognito …

                 3 March 2022 at 12:45 pm

                 This was a PR war without any winners/victors.

                 Even if the ‘general public’ paints all or most protestors with the same brush, for which the reasons are not that hard to understand, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they (i.e. the ‘general public’) would be pushing a “dangerous agenda”. What agenda? Whose agenda?

                 I think you’re really over-reaching when you suggest that such public opinion would NZ turn into a “dangerous police state”. FWIW, NZ Police are not even armed routinely. One of the few countries in the World, I may add.

                 Are you sure you’re not projecting or pushing your own agenda?
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 2:28 pm

                   “Even if the ‘general public’ paints all or most protestors with the same brush, for which the reasons are not that hard to understand, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they (i.e. the ‘general public’) would be pushing a “dangerous agenda". What agenda? Whose agenda?”

                   I'd like to give people the benefit of doubt in this regard, hoping they are all not that dumb.

                   And think those in the general public that are pushing this dangerous agenda are doing so unwittingly. Falling for the media hype and lies.

                   As for who I think is pushing this dangerous agenda, I think it has been fairly obvious. Those in Government that we've seen over the last few weeks doing exactly that ie attempting to tar them all.
                   • Incognito …

                     3 March 2022 at 3:16 pm

                     WTF! Are you trolling?

                     You give people the benefit of doubt and hope (!) that they are “all not that dumb” yet you stated that they “(knowingly or not) are pushing a dangerous agenda” [my italics]!?

                     Then you continue your baseless fantasies along the same vein stating “those in the general public that are pushing this dangerous agenda are doing so unwittingly” [my italics again]!?

                     Please state the “fairly obvious” as to whom you think is pushing “this dangerous agenda” [my italics]. Oh, I see, it is Government. Of course, it is. I mean, what or who else could be pushing “this dangerous agenda”??

                     Let me see if I understand you correctly. The PM refused to engage with protestors because she is driving a dangerous agenda that involves encouraging dangerous extremists into committing terror acts and inciting peaceful demonstrators into committing violent riots? Thus, the PM has direct ‘culpability’ for those yoga mums levitating bricks towards the Police??

                     The only dangerous agenda I can see here is you pushing your utter lunacy onto us on this forum. In turn, we’re all starting to froth at the mouth when reading your comments.
                 • The Chairman …

                   3 March 2022 at 3:56 pm

                   WTF! Are you trolling?

                   No. Merely openly expressing my opinions.

                   Yes, I don't believe all of the general public feel this way towards the protesters. I think most can see the vast majority aren't bad. However, I know some do.

                   For which the reasons are not that hard to understand,

                   Cool. Can you explain the reasons why people would want to tar them all with the same brush?

                   The PM refusing to engage with protestors increases the risk that some will take more drastic action.

                   What do you think is driving this push to tar them all with the same brush?

                   And what do you think will come from that?

                   PM has direct ‘culpability’ for those yoga mums levitating bricks towards the Police??

                   No, not directly. But she did refuse to talk, potentially putting an end to it before it got to that.

                   What do you think caused the yoga mums to levitate bricks towards the Police?

                   Could it have been the actions of the police? Action that may have been avoided if the Government engaged, no?
                   • Muttonbird …

                     3 March 2022 at 4:17 pm

                     What do you think caused the yoga mums to levitate bricks towards the Police?

                     Because they are antivaxxers who are angry at have been inconvenienced by public health measures introduced for a 1 in 100 year pandemic.

                     Normally they are invisible but the necessity for NZ to have a high vaccination rate has made them highly visible and they don't like it.
               • Patricia Bremner …

                 3 March 2022 at 6:16 pm

                 They pushed the public with abuse and desecrated special areas. They blocked streets and acted with total entitlement. Their agenda of damage to State and Politicians coupled with complete lies told about the PM's partner, and finally the refusal to leave peacefully left the Police with little choice. Now they are charged and will face court. Your stance is ridiculous. Negotiate about what? With whom? Health orders come under Bloomfield in this situation, so they were wanting to talk to the wrong party.

                 Currently the public are contributing money via three different funds already totaling $50 000 and thousands have signed up to help with the clean up. People want to claim the area back.

                 The Police will now investigate the money streams, the groups of perpetrators, and the filmed footage. In the end this is a democracy.
             • Matiri …

               3 March 2022 at 1:45 pm

               It surely does. We have a neighbour who has spoiled it for herself.

               She lives on her own, has alternative views which is (was) fine and troubled children which are not, is generally considered a good sort, we would help her out sometimes. We are reconsidering that in view of her attending the Picton protest, unhinged rants on facebook and the dangerous, even criminal stuff she has shared. We have to balance our safety/peace of mind against marginalising her even more than she is already.
               • The Chairman …

                 3 March 2022 at 2:33 pm

                 We have to balance our safety/peace of mind against marginalising her even more than she is already.

                 Do you think marginalising her even more is going to be helpful? That may end up with her turning on you.
           • Nic the NZer 3.1.1.1.1.5

             3 March 2022 at 12:10 pm

             Here's a good example of how to end the occupation peacefully.

             https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300531344/antimandate-protesters-agree-to-leave-auckland-domain

             Turns out the occupiers did have peaceful alternatives to a riot.
             • weka …

               3 March 2022 at 12:17 pm

               and this,

               https://twitter.com/leighmarama/status/1498875628828774401
               • Nic the NZer …

                 3 March 2022 at 12:45 pm

                 You can't seriously expect the Chairman to look at examples of well lead protests.
                 • weka …

                   3 March 2022 at 12:59 pm

                   lol, no.
                 • Shanreagh …

                   3 March 2022 at 1:02 pm

                   I suspect the main interest is only in those protests that have the potential to put this Govt on the ropes so his Nacts have a chance.
           • Shanreagh 3.1.1.1.1.6

             3 March 2022 at 12:51 pm

             I'm sure you are correct..NOT.
         • Peter 3.1.1.1.2

           3 March 2022 at 11:06 am

           A poll of 525 people who were asked what?

           "Do you support the protest?"

           "Do you support their right to protest"

           "Would you say you support the protest regardless of what the protest was about?"

           Does 'supporting the protest' mean supporting the anti-vaccination reason for the protest? Or supporting get rid of the government? Or supporting getting rid of mandates?
       • mac1 3.1.1.2

         3 March 2022 at 1:00 pm

         The poll was taken by Horizon on 18 February. Before being questioned, the respondents were given information which included this. "The protesters have occupied Parliament grounds and their vehicles have blocked several streets near Parliament. Smaller protests are occurring outside Wellington."

         I wonder how people would have voted had the information included the following. "The protest will end with policemen injured, pepper spray and fire hoses being used, concrete blocks being torn up from roading and used as missiles against the police, vile homophobic and mysogynistic language used against the police and the PM, fires set and fuelled by protesters, chairs thrown at the police, 90 arrests, after more than three weeks of disruption to city goers, workers, businesses, and after unmeasured sickness and illness amongst protesters which endangered themselves and others, and death threats and menaces of continued civil disruption along the same lines. The clean up costs will be huge as will be the effects upon public access and safety in the aftermath as lawless, embittered and anti-social people continue to abuse and threaten fellow citizens. "

         How would they have voted then?
4. felix 4

   3 March 2022 at 8:03 am

   I wonder what @te_taipo had to say about the BLM occupations that saw large parts of northwestern U.S. cities engulfed in flames and nightly riots for a year.
   • Tricledrown 4.1

     3 March 2022 at 9:53 am

     Felix false equivalence and this is NZ.

     The health of all people is at risk.

     Protestors were undermining òur democratically elected govts health mandates voted on by all parties.

     Unlike the gerrymandering US political system which denies Black people equal treatment under the law which is enforced by many white supremacists.

     White Supremacists and other far right extremists were at the protests spreading misinformation and caused trouble.

     Once the dust has settled police and the public will catch all the perpetraitors (police photographer’s were using high definition cameras to identify perpetraitors many will be prosecuted by evidence they have posted online for their own ego’)and they will regret what they have done cry like little babies and say they were lied to just like Jan6 rioters.
     • felix 4.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 8:28 pm

       Care to explain what you mean by false equivalence? So far your comment just says you support one protest and you don't support the other.
   • weka 4.2

     3 March 2022 at 10:27 am

     probably not too hard to find on his twitter.
     • felix 4.2.1

       3 March 2022 at 8:34 pm

       Not on twitter so I'll never know, but I reckon I could hazard a guess and be about 100% accurate that he thinks burning public infrastructure in 2020 was legit peaceful protest.

       But once someone joins an armed milita I tend to disregard their views on civic engagement, so fuck that guy really.
       • weka 4.2.1.1

         3 March 2022 at 9:52 pm

         myself I see it not so much as legit as an understandable outcome of an intolerable situation. And as Td said, very different from NZ, we don't have anything comparable here to regular police shootings of black people.

         As for peaceful protest, I don't think protest has to always be peaceful and it's a risky word for the left to be using. Stop the Tour was an obvious example of how damaging property and pissing off locals (pulling down the fence and gaining access to the rugby field) was both morally justified and effective. More recently I think XR have demonstrated how civil disobedience can be done without tipping over into violence or being arseholes generally in the way that the anti-mandate protest was.

         To me it looks like underlying values make the difference.
         • Just Saying 4.2.1.1.1

           3 March 2022 at 10:37 pm

           At the time, those against the springbok protests did not see any of it as fair play. Activists were a long way from being considered principled, or any positive adjective.

           It is time that has changed the prevailing view. Yes the anti tour actions were primarily middle-class, and organised. But it was time, hindsight and the tides of history that meant it came to be widely understood as correct.

           Activism has to be at the vanguard. It necessarily means often vehement opposition, disapproval, disgust, and negative repercussions. It represents a need that is not acknowledged or respected, that's why it's protest.

           Time will tell the story, a very different story to that of today, one that wont be about about individuals.

           Protest is about why.
           • weka 4.2.1.1.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 11:19 pm

             actually, many New Zealanders understood that why Stop the Tour was right. That's why there were such large numbers of protestors (and many people who weren't normally seen at protests) and over a long period of time. Mainstream NZ was challenged, but a lot of mainstream NZ was also anti-tour.

             It was a watershed year, with huge impact on NZ and race relations.

             The convoy protests are also a watershed moment, but for different reasons.

             In '81 the baddies were the Red Squad, and seeing that brutality play out was part of the political and social shift. This week, it's the rioters that are the baddies, and the dominant shift here is around people coming together to mend and heal something that was broken by the protest.

             It's possible that there will be a shift around ideas about the mandates too, but the issue still remains that at the time there was good public health justification, so it's hard to see how we would have been ok without them. I still maintain that they were a necessary evil and that the people most affected could have been looked after. I see a small possibility that we might actually change that, but so many people now see the protestors as a bunch of selfish fucks that I suspect this will get lost. Might work if the next round do protest differently. So much opportunity was lost here because of the violence rhetoric at the start, and the disrespect.

             Beyond that, I see potential for a wider conversation about misinformation and what to do about it, but that's a side effect of the protest, not a goal.
           • weka 4.2.1.1.1.2

             3 March 2022 at 11:21 pm

             Activism has to be at the vanguard. It necessarily means often vehement opposition, disapproval, disgust, and negative repercussions. It represents a need that is not acknowledged or respected, that's why it's protest.

             Yes, but you still need the progressives people in the mainstream to be on board to some extent, and even in very challenging protests there still needs to be a conversation between the radicals and the maintreat. The mandate protest didn't understand this, or didn't care, and tried to force change without bringing people with them. It doesn't work.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   3 March 2022 at 8:53 am

   After all their clamouring for it, the gallows never did get erected on parliament's grounds. Intense huffing & puffing from the protestors but they failed to blow the hive down. United only in identifying the govt as baddies. One achievement the media noted was they managed to get all the parties in parliament united against them. What they shared with parliament was the desire to return to the 19th century.

   While the parliament remain busy doing 19th century economic policy, the protestors were also captured by the mystique around the 19th century: crime & punishment, rabble plus gallows. Imagery of the gallows would have flashed around the world on screens. They lost their opportunity for a pr coup in not providing it.
   • Tricledrown 5.1

     3 March 2022 at 9:58 am

     Dennis Frank.Andrea Vance pointed out a noose was dangled from a tree early on by the white supremacists.
     • Dennis Frank 5.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 10:11 am

       So low key that other media didn't catch on? Or perhaps the govt instructed the media not to do any follow-up focus. The protestors would prefer that take.

       Anyway it could be that actual construction of an authentic replica of a 19th century gallows was too technical for them. You can't buy kitsets.
6. Dennis Frank 6

   3 March 2022 at 9:33 am

   So where to from here for the rabble? Newsroom's senior political reporter predicts domestic terrorism. Time for govt agencies created to engage such to do so!

   The fiery end to the three week occupation will only serve to catalyse the resolve of the violent extremists on the anti-vax and anti-mandate fringe.

   Political solutions to their grievances are transparently unachievable. Some are lucid enough to know that their views will never win at the ballot box. Those who aren't believe that any election would be rigged against them anyway.

   Many will simply give up. But among the hard core who refuse to, violence will emerge as the only possible solution.

   In February 2020, the Government’s Combined Threat Assessment Group (CTAG) concluded there was a “realistic possibility Covid-19-related personal grievances, and increased time spent online throughout various Covid-19 restrictive measures, will continue to accelerate some drivers of violent extremism in New Zealand, including social, political and economic factors. We assess there is a realistic possibility these will also contribute to the acceleration of radicalisation pathways for some individuals in New Zealand in the medium- to long-term.”

   By the end of the year, CTAG was saying that while most anti-vaxxers were “highly unlikely to have the intent to conduct violence … the volume and nature of the rhetoric is creating an environment that normalises and justifies violent rhetoric as a legitimate response to public policy”.

   https://www.newsroom.co.nz/clashes-a-catalysing-moment-for-nzs-fringe

   So we’re looking at a shift from rhetoric, through failed protest, into action that selects targets…
   • The Chairman 6.1

     3 March 2022 at 9:52 am

     Newsroom's senior political reporter predicts domestic terrorism

     Best the Government engage in discussions to help quash the potential of this happening.

     Many will simply give up. But among the hard core who refuse to, violence will emerge as the only possible solution.

     Violence tends to be a last resort. As shown at the end of the protest. And there are other nonviolent (some more disruptive) options for them to consider. A legal challenge is potentially on the cards.
     • Tricledrown 6.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 10:07 am

       The Chairman so who do you engage with .The violent rioters,the supremacists,the antivax brigade.

       No way they don't believe in any thing the govt says but they believe in all the conspiracies online.

       So it would be a pointless exercise the SIS was able to infiltrate the green movement its time they did their job and get into the supremacists and find the leaders and loan wolfs.

       After all they managed to keep an eye on peaceful protestors for 40 yrs while completely ignoring the extremely violent white supremacists .
     • Shanreagh 6.1.2

       3 March 2022 at 12:59 pm

       Why shouldn't the Govt simply steer the ship of state for all people, as it has been so far, in planning and executing the public health measures that are needed for all NZers to combat Omicron and let us come out the other side.

       The borders will be carefully opened, MIQ carefully run down to just a holding capacity and the mandates lifted, as we all know they will be when we are through on the other side of Omicron.

       Why does a measured plan have to be accelerated just because some have run out of patience? Since when have we become one rule for 150-250 and one rule for the majority?
     • weka 6.1.3

       3 March 2022 at 1:03 pm

       Best the Government engage in discussions to help quash the potential of this happening.

       Hang on, are you saying that the wider protest does have influence on the violent ones, including those with terrorist intent?
       • The Chairman 6.1.3.1

         3 March 2022 at 1:32 pm

         Hang on, are you saying that the wider protest does have influence on the violent ones, including those with terrorist intent?

         Some influence was seen at the protest when others clamed down those that started playing up.

         I'm saying that the Government now has a chance to help prevent some of the wider group joining in on it. If they continue to ignore them and largely run them down, some may begin to see acts of terror as the only way.

         Ponder this: if you were protesting due to you or your family being harmed, or have lost your job and everything you trained years for, and heard the PM totally ignore that, pointing to conspiracies and misinformation as the reasons for the protest, you may be a little bit pissed off. So there is anger out there and the Government should be addressing this and trying its best to put it to rest. Not exacerbating it via talking in such a condescending manner.
         • Robert Guyton 6.1.3.1.1

           3 March 2022 at 1:45 pm

           Again with the "playing up."

           Scallywags, eh!!

           Didn't look very playful.
           • McFlock 6.1.3.1.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 2:25 pm

             it was all the "clamming down" wot stopped it getting worse lol
   • Peter 6.2

     3 March 2022 at 9:53 am

     Any domestic terrorists and anarchists will need to find ways to harness the dumb [deleted] middle class women yoga health fad influencers and their vacant fans on board.
     • Peter 6.2.1

       3 March 2022 at 10:09 am

       Influencer mums posting selfies in the school hours are the front guard of the global anti-vaccine campaign.

       "Over on Facebook, beauty influencer Natalya Purchase (31,000 followers) – who previously compared vaccine mandates to the Holocaust – wrote that while some people got vaccinated to protect their families “some chose NOT to be vaccinated for the very same reason”.

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300520631/its-like-a-cult-how-antivaccine-mumfluencers-are-fuelling-the-parliament-occupation
       • Nic the NZer 6.2.1.1

         3 March 2022 at 11:09 am

         Have to say I'm astounded at the hold this has over people. I would have expected the 3 women digging paving stones out of the Parliament drive to be thrown at police would have a, hang on what am I doing and just how did I get here, realisation.
     • McFlock 6.2.2

       3 March 2022 at 2:33 pm

       That language really grates.

       The entire "influencer" thing tends to annoy the hell out of me – they don't actually produce much of anything, or receive much of anything from their market, yet somehow this marketplace of nothings turns into varying amounts of cash.

       But "dumb bitch middle class women yoga health fad influencers and their vacant fans" seems a bit more vicious and targeted towards a certain subgroup of "influencers" than necessary.
       • weka 6.2.2.1

         3 March 2022 at 3:16 pm

         yep and yep.

         The influencer thing reminds me of the stock market (neoliberalism rewarding neoliberalism), but I think it's also an easy pejorative that can obscure what is actually going on.
     • weka 6.2.3

       3 March 2022 at 3:14 pm

       don't use sexist slurs on this site.
7. Reality 7

   3 March 2022 at 11:09 am

   Chairman – your ongoing sympathy for the violent, anti-social, criminal thugs at the protest is hard to fathom. Would you like them behaving like that in the street where you live?
   • Barfly 7.1

     3 March 2022 at 11:21 am

     The Chairman is a cheerleader for anything and anyone he thinks can can cause harm or ill will towards the Labour Government IMO.
     • In Vino 7.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 11:54 am

       Funny, that… Spots don't change..
     • The Chairman 7.1.2

       3 March 2022 at 2:02 pm

       Labour have no trouble creating their own problems.

       I generally tend to oppose their stance on most things. I can't help it if others do too.

       I'm merely expressing my own views. And again, can't help it if others agree.

       There is no intention of harm, merely expressing my opinions and asking questions.

       If that makes them feel harmed in some way, then they must be crazy.
   • The Chairman 7.2

     3 March 2022 at 2:45 pm

     Chairman – your ongoing sympathy for the violent, anti-social, criminal thugs at the protest is hard to fathom.

     Oh rubbish. I have no sympathy for the violent, anti-social, criminal thugs.

     My sympathy is for the nonviolent majority.
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 7.2.1

       3 March 2022 at 8:33 pm

       I hear you.

       The anti-social 95% give the rest a bad name.
8. observer 8

   3 March 2022 at 11:14 am

   This is a useful summary of the story, from beginning to end. A reminder of just how weird and other-worldly so much of it was.

   https://twitter.com/LexRegina72/status/1499036490969808897
   • The Chairman 8.1

     3 March 2022 at 2:54 pm

     What's the bet the Government goes after VFF for misinformation spreading.

     And I bet they won't be all they go after.

     The PM's language of late sounds like she is going to reduce free speech. This should concern all of us, but guessing most of you lot are for it or are still asleep to what's coming and where this country is heading to internally. In my opinion, this PM is going to take this country to a dark place. Not that I think National will be any better.
     • Robert Guyton 8.1.1

       3 March 2022 at 2:56 pm

       Free speech? Chantelle Baker-style?

       "Who started the fire among the tents?

       Yesterday Chantelle spread disinformation that the police had kicked over a generator and started the first fire in parliament grounds amongst the tents. This video shows it was masked protestors who went into a tent – while others were gathered around ( knowing the plan and ready to feed the flames). It's good to prove that Chantelle is spreading disinformation although these images are disturbing to watch. The police are innocent and should not be blamed by the faker bakers."

       https://www.facebook.com/661042032/videos/492239455679916
       • weka 8.1.1.1

         3 March 2022 at 3:11 pm

         weird, I can't see the video in your comment but I can see it when I try and edit it.

         Here it is again.

         Edit: second copy of vid deleted as the one above is visible now. Or use the link below.
         • weka 8.1.1.1.1

           3 March 2022 at 3:13 pm

           still not seeing it, can anyone else?

           https://www.facebook.com/661042032/videos/492239455679916
           • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.1.1

             3 March 2022 at 4:13 pm

             It displayed when I first posted it, but I can't see it now ('cept in my memory 🙂
             • weka …

               3 March 2022 at 4:30 pm

               I can see it now!
       • Matiri 8.1.1.2

         3 March 2022 at 3:15 pm

         Documenting arson there – up to 10 year jail penalty, hence the balaclavas.
         • Matiri 8.1.1.2.1

           3 March 2022 at 3:18 pm

           I can see the video and the arsonists, although my 10 minute edit function has gone just on my reply 8.1.1.2.
         • McFlock 8.1.1.2.2

           3 March 2022 at 3:26 pm

           1m10s a dude helping put a tent on the fire failed to keep his mask up. Must have been out of practise 🙂
           • weka 8.1.1.2.2.1

             3 March 2022 at 4:36 pm

             another piece of useful footage for the police.

             Anyone figure out who shot it? Interesting that they knew to film the set up and the start of the fire.
             • McFlock …

               3 March 2022 at 4:52 pm

               Well, someone able to wander amongst the protestors without being "trespassed" and threatened with "security".

               So good chance it was a protestor lol
               • weka …

                 3 March 2022 at 5:18 pm

                 Wellington Live dude was down there yesterday filming and egging protestors on, so I guess that's one way to do it as well 🙁 Or maybe the mob was too busy tearing up bricks and hurling them at cops to bother with bystanders.
                 • McFlock …

                   3 March 2022 at 5:22 pm

                   Would have been a bold msm stringer walking amongst them, though. Not a safe move in that situation.
             • Matiri …

               3 March 2022 at 5:41 pm

               Think it was Chantelle Baker, daughter of Leighton just released on bail.
               • weka …

                 3 March 2022 at 6:57 pm

                 I got the impression she was standing next to them.
                 • Matiri …

                   3 March 2022 at 7:02 pm

                   Close enough to identify them. Here's the link to Leighton Baker after his appearance in court.

                   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/127946279/arrested-conservative-politician-might-be-stranded-in-capital-for-now
               • psych nurse …

                 3 March 2022 at 8:10 pm

                 Quick search Know where he lives, think I will start a tent city on his front lawn.
           • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.2.2

             3 March 2022 at 8:42 pm

             You can see a petrol can in his hand at one point. Bright red and yellow to go with the black hoodie and balaclava.

             Only the best people.
           • Muttonbird 8.1.1.2.2.3

             3 March 2022 at 8:53 pm

             
       • Peter 8.1.1.3

         3 March 2022 at 4:30 pm

         Chantelle Baker – fantasy and reality

         "After delivering us full livestream coverage of the NZ Convoy Protest outside our parliament which is into its fifth day, Chantelle is fast becoming a national treasure.

         Thank whatever gods may be that we have an on-the-ground journalist with integrity and brains to show us the truth about momentous events shaping our country, like Chantelle Baker, who has proven she is worth her weight in gold."

         That's according to: https://thebfd.co.nz/2022/02/11/a-star-is-born/

         This week reality:

         "When misinformation spreads like fire."

         https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/03-03-2022/when-misinformation-spreads-like-fire
     • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.2

       3 March 2022 at 6:45 pm

       In my opinion, this PM is going to take this country to a dark place.

       Imho, that's not going to happen. It's my sense that a healthy majority of Kiwis understand why temporary public health measures are needed during a 1 in 100-year pandemic. Tomorrow the number of lives tragically lost to COVID-19 will likely tick over 6 million globally (probably an underestimate).

       It's also my sense that when COVID becomes an endemic disease (maybe this year, maybe in 5 years time), history will judge PM Ardern and the first 2 years of the Kiwi response kindly. Objective critiques will acknowledge the successes (from health and other perspectives) of NZ's anti-COVID strategies – successes all the more remarkable considering our under-resourced public health service.

       Mortality declines in Aotearoa NZ during the first two years of the Covid-19 pandemic [22 Feb. 2022]
       In this blog we review the impact of Aotearoa NZ’s Covid-19 response strategies on mortality patterns during the first 2 years of the pandemic. We find that NZ experienced an increase in life expectancy, decreased winter mortality, and net decline in (excess) mortality. These impacts are far more positive than experienced by all other high-income countries during this pandemic period. This picture supports the cautious elimination and suppression strategies used for the first 2 years of the pandemic and there has also been time to prepare the country for the current Omicron wave.

       Life expectancy fell sharply in the U.S. last year among high-income countries [4 Nov. 2021]
     • Patricia Bremner 8.1.3

       3 March 2022 at 6:46 pm

       Free Speech!!That old chestnut!!

       Running out of ideas? "Gotta make her look bad… somehow."
9. observer 9

   3 March 2022 at 11:28 am

   One empty boast was shattered yesterday. According to the social media fantasists, there was so much love for the protest that if any action was taken to clear the camp, then people would flock in to show their support. In reality, nobody did. No truckers, no tradies, no workers downing tools or stroppy students, no D-list celebs. Nobody at all.

   If it had been a smart protest, with all the peaceful supporters they claimed, then a few hundred bodies lying down in passive non-violent resistance would have held up the police all day, and scored a propaganda win. The TV images would have looked very different last night. But there was nobody there to do it. Only arsonists and rock throwers. In the end, that's all they had.
10. Peter 10

    3 March 2022 at 11:35 am

    I haven't seen Trev out the front in his gumboots helping with the cleanup. Yet.

    Now that would give people something to go on about.
    • Hongi Ika 10.1

      4 March 2022 at 6:16 am

      Hope he contributes to resowing the grass lawns as he was the silly c*** who turned on the sprinklers.
11. observer 11

    3 March 2022 at 11:43 am

    This is just sad. From the Herald live updates:

    "In Wellington, a community worker says there are now a large number of "broken" people stranded in the capital city who were last night wandering the streets , half-naked with nowhere to go.

    Papa Hone, who spent time at the Parliamentary protest site and was involved in police negotiations across the three-week occupation, said a number of adults and their children spent last night wandering the streets.

    He said there were a lot of "confused" people ringing him for help after their vehicles were impounded and possessions destroyed after yesterday's police operation to reclaim Parliament grounds.

    "We've heard about people walking around last night half-naked, people with no place to sleep," he posted on Facebook this morning. "There are people that are stuck there with nowhere to go, don't know how they're going to get home."

    A story that recurs throughout history: the kings and queens retreat to their castle, the pawns are left to fend for themselves.

    How are they going to get home? With a free trip provided by Marty Verry, Russell Coutts, Brian Tamaki and the other rich pr**ks who used them and then ran for cover.
    • weka 11.1

      3 March 2022 at 12:19 pm

      it is sad. Police or Ardern did say they would be helped to get home.

      The police aren't being arseholes here.

      And yep, the rich pricks are.

      Edit: can’t find where police or Ardern said that now, so ignore my first sentence.
      • alwyn 11.1.1

        3 March 2022 at 1:42 pm

        "Police or Ardern did say they would be helped to get home".

        Did they really? When was that, and if they did say it did they actually do anything about it?
        • Robert Guyton 11.1.1.1

          3 March 2022 at 1:43 pm

          Well, they did show them the door, which is much the same thing.
        • Peter 11.1.1.2

          3 March 2022 at 4:20 pm

          I heard the comment about being helped to get home. The ones who came across the Strait on private boats? Someone can phone the boaties (I remember one being feted in the news) and suggest they come pick up their crap.

          The boats can't come? I'll help them get home by donating togs.
      • bad politics baby 11.1.2

        3 March 2022 at 1:59 pm

        Some are stuck in Wellington because of their unvaxxed status they can't get over the straight (I assume they were boated across privately). Also someone was messaged they left their car keys in the admin tent (or maybe Antifa pinched them?).
        • weka 11.1.2.1

          3 March 2022 at 2:25 pm

          I guess some are on a steep learning curve today.
          • Matiri 11.1.2.1.1

            3 March 2022 at 4:04 pm

            Yep, freedom to make choices but not freedom from the consequences.
      • Red Blooded One 11.1.3

        3 March 2022 at 3:10 pm

        Can you provide a link for that? I did hear Coster say they would assist people to remove their vehicles, nothing about helping them get home. By not making a move to remove their vehicles the occupiers lost that opportunity. I think we have to be very careful, in these days of misinformation, that we don't accuse people of statements they didn’t make. I mean look how quickly Alwyn is panting with excitement at the thought she might have offered to drive each one home personally and going back on her promise./sarc
        • weka 11.1.3.1

          3 March 2022 at 3:32 pm

          haha, alwyn will always try and skew the thing.

          I had a look before, couldn't find it, it was later in the day. I'll have a listen to Ardern again and double check.
          • Red Blooded One 11.1.3.1.1

            3 March 2022 at 3:45 pm

            
            • weka 11.1.3.1.1.1

              3 March 2022 at 4:28 pm

              Listened again, didn't hear Ardern say it. Had a google search for the police statement but can't find that either, so will correct my comment above. A lot going on yesterday, either it's slipped through the cracks or I misheard.
              • Grey Area …

                3 March 2022 at 4:49 pm

                I'm sure I heard Andrew Coster say in the past couple of days that if people wanted to leave the site in their vehicles voluntarily then the police would help them to do that.

                In his printed statement he said: “This morning you will have seen we have urged protesters who have not already departed, to leave now. Our message to those who do not wish to be caught up in our operation is, please go home. We have staff on stand-by to assist their safe departure from the protest area.
                • weka …

                  3 March 2022 at 5:20 pm

                  I heard that a lot too.

                  I thought in addition to that, that later in the day they said people would be helped to get home. Sounds kind of naive now, I remember thinking at the time that it was a good thing.
          • alwyn 11.1.3.1.2

            3 March 2022 at 6:29 pm

            "Skew the thing"? Is that what asking for evidence of a statement being accurate is called? Can I use that when I have forgotten to include a link to something I have quoted?
            • Nic the NZer 11.1.3.1.2.1

              3 March 2022 at 6:50 pm

              Look, I can't stress the importance of this enough. Alwyn badly needs this link to add to his collection of every time the PM might have let some people down. She's not super woman you know so as you can imagine the definitive guide has considerable pages to it already.
            • weka 11.1.3.1.2.2

              3 March 2022 at 6:56 pm

              "Skew the thing"? Is that what asking for evidence of a statement being accurate is called?

              you're a trier, I'll give that.

              Can I use that when I have forgotten to include a link to something I have quoted?

              accuse yourself of skewing the thing? Sure, have at it. You'll still need to provide a link though.
              • Peter …

                3 March 2022 at 7:34 pm

                The expression 'skew the thing' brings to mind another saying: 'screw the scum.'

                A bit of cross pollination might see 'skew the scum' emerge with obvious meaning and contexts.
    • Hongi Ika 11.2

      4 March 2022 at 6:18 am

      Winston Peters and David Seymour should be helping their Supporters.
12. coge 12

    3 March 2022 at 1:06 pm

    If mandates are to be dropped, none of what was seen yesterday would have been necessary. So either the PM has no intention of dropping these mandates imposed on the NZ people, or the police action yesterday was purely punitive. Or maybe a bit of both?
    • weka 12.1

      3 March 2022 at 2:03 pm

      Hipkins said yesterday that mandates will be reviewed and when they end depends on the omicron peak. I see no reason to not believe that.

      Police weren't willing to let the protest remain that long and they've explained clearly why. I see no reason to not believe that either.
    • mac1 12.2

      3 March 2022 at 8:02 pm

      Or maybe a bit of neither? The mandates have not yet been dropped, are still needed, and unlawful activity is still unlawful which the police have to deal with.
13. Temp O'Rary 13

    3 March 2022 at 1:07 pm

    Winston Peters memory seems to be going, or his anonymous police sources (if they exist) may be omitting already published details. It comes across as suspiciously defensive anyway:

    "I didn't tie myself to that protest movement. Those people that turned up yesterday and behaved in that violent way were not the people I saw,” he said, in a phone interview.

    "I saw a lot of them, and I saw none of those people at all. They'd clearly come out of the woodwork very late.”

    Peters said he could be certain he did not meet any of those responsible for the violence, because the “police told me that”. He would not specify who in the police he had contact with.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/wellington/300531056/live-police-on-tight-guard-in-cleanup-around-parliament-after-chaotic-end-to-occupation

    Brad Flutey appeared in the Wellington District Court this afternoon, accused of encouraging protesters at Parliament to behave in a manner likely to cause violence, and then for failing to comply with police orders – namely failing to supply fingerprints and photographs, on Saturday February 26.

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/02/28/judge-orders-prominent-anti-vaccine-activist-away-from-parliament/

    https://twitter.com/henrycooke/status/1495948889933107200?s=20&t=iW1Rki3sI7Dmtbo4VgIuPQ

    Tweet shows Peters with Flutey taking his photo. Filmed by a Stuff political Reporter.
    edit/ Also comments still going to automoderation.
    • Hongi Ika 13.1

      3 March 2022 at 6:24 pm

      Winston was down there looking for votes, this will probably back fire on him as I reckon 60-70% of the population wanted these Protestors Gone FFS we are in the middle of a pandemic ?
      • Hongi Ika 13.1.1

        4 March 2022 at 6:06 am

        ,,, and he didn't have a mask on, the silly old c*** has really lost the plot.
14. Shanreagh 14

    3 March 2022 at 1:14 pm

    I hope they know where to get free food. There is a place where I help out on Thursdays, great bunch of people homeless to others whose pays often don't stretch to good food.

    We are masked, those who come are masked and I hope that hungry people do come and respect our kaupapa and aroha.

    But I am not holding my breath.
    • weka 14.1

      3 March 2022 at 2:22 pm

      what will you do if they won't mask and distance?
      • Shanreagh 14.1.1

        3 March 2022 at 3:24 pm

        I am a mere irk/jerk and am thankful not to have to ponder those queries.

        I am thinking they will keep it safe for the regulars by moving the operation inside for them and put bags of food out on the street for others who don't respect our kaupapa. We already put out lots of bread on trays/baskets in the edge of the footpath for people to grab as they pass. Our first priority is to our people, we feed them and up to 40 families usually. But we do often have lots of food.

        We will see tonight. Sometimes away from others who support bullying and over bearing tactics those who need food may see that it is not going to harm them by masking or distancing.

        Though I would have thought that the kitchen supplying the protest in an old garage site in Tinakori road would still be able to feed them until they need to go home.
        • weka 14.1.1.1

          3 March 2022 at 3:27 pm

          sounds like a great organisation.
15. Robert Guyton 15

    3 March 2022 at 1:38 pm

    "There’s no denying that the clean-up of Parliament Grounds following the protest is a huge job, and Sustainability Trust wants to offer a helping hand to clean up in an environmentally-friendly way.

    Our CEO Georgie said “When we restore Parliament Grounds to be a safe space for everyone, let’s protect Pōneke by ensuring that any non-hazardous materials are recycled.”

    “We want to let NZ Police, Wellington City Council and the organisers of The Big Clean-Up know that we are ready and willing to sort the rubbish from the recyclables. Everything we do at Sustainability Trust is about reducing impact on the environment and giving back to the Wellington community”.

    https://sustaintrust.org.nz/…/lets-clean-up-parliament…
    • Poission 15.1

      3 March 2022 at 1:46 pm

      Meanwhile in the real world.

      Unfortunately, a number of the team at the Seaview recycling plant are unable to work due to COVID-19 which means the operator has reduced capacity to 75 percent with immediate effect until further notice.

      This means that around 25 percent of the recycling collected in the Wellington region will not be recycled and will be sent to landfill.

      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK2203/S00076/covid-transmissions-impact-councils-waste-services.htm
      • Shanreagh 15.1.1

        3 March 2022 at 2:08 pm

        Yes we have that happen all through the year……just one of the grrrrrrs at WCC and its recycling ability, don't worry I/others have been 'raving' at them for a decade or so.

        We have a very ordinary recycling effort here in Wellington compared to what it could be. Doesn't begin to cover the 'where there's muck there's brass' ethos. Mainly because WCC don't want to put the work/$$$ into leading or finding these outlets.
      • weka 15.1.2

        3 March 2022 at 2:21 pm

        Most things from the protest site could be stored until they can be dealt with. In the real world ie nature, this is what we should be doing.
        • Shanreagh 15.1.2.1

          3 March 2022 at 2:38 pm

          Agree with this.
    • weka 15.2

      3 March 2022 at 2:20 pm

      I had to look away from the photos of the bulldozer just piling everything up for landfill. We are still so bad at reusing 🙁
      • Poission 15.2.1

        3 March 2022 at 2:35 pm

        Yes but it looks like a rubbish tip says Ardern,after sweeping the Human Detritus aside,many who don't have homes,no where to self isolate if they did have covid,and no way to feed themselves for the 10 day period.
        • weka 15.2.1.1

          3 March 2022 at 2:38 pm

          it's shitshow all round. That bulldozer pile and the 'collateral damage' from the protest are part of the same dynamic.

          How many homeless before the protest not because of the protest people do you think were there? Does Wellington not have a system for helping homeless people self isolate?
          • Shanreagh 15.2.1.1.1

            3 March 2022 at 2:45 pm

            Yes we do. During Alpha and Delta there were groups finding places for people to isolate in. Some were seen by housing agencies after they had recovered so they were put on Housing waiting lists etc.

            We also have a homeless (ie streets) community that is more vaccinated than not. Our homeless need to be vaccinated to access many of the supports around the place. Those involved with the group that I support are mostly vaccinated and all are mask wearers. The group in charge actually arranged for the vaccinations if wanted. There are plenty of masks and happy joshing about the physical distancing every time I am there.
            • weka 15.2.1.1.1.1

              3 March 2022 at 3:17 pm

              are there still empty hotels and motels around?
    • Shanreagh 15.3

      3 March 2022 at 2:22 pm

      Yes I am looking forward to helping when we are given access by The Speaker and Police. Have enrolled in the Wellington group and it is great that Sustain Trust will be there. It is a logical and a very Wellington thing to do and that is to recycle as much as we can, and do something tangible to help Mother Nature heal the grounds around Parliament.

      I appreciate that there are H & S considerations there relating to illness and lack of washing/toileting facilities and some of this will be behind the bulldozing.
      • Shanreagh 15.3.1

        3 March 2022 at 2:37 pm

        Then there are actions relating to the Cloak. There may be a need to bless the area in some way. It certainly feels desecrated to me, I guess I am feeling it as I worked there for 4 years and wandered up and down the paths from LQ.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462434/te-kahu-o-te-raukura-laid-as-a-cloak-of-peace-over-parliament-grounds-and-ancestral-whenua

        Protestors also stood on the Mana whenua in dealings with Pipitea Marae. I also feel very strongly at the occupation of the Cenotaph including the parking of campervans with on board toilets. Where I come from you don't actually use a memorial or gravestone as a place to cook food or conduct ablutions.
        • weka 15.3.1.1

          3 March 2022 at 3:20 pm

          so much disrespect. I don't remember Occupy being like this despite the lack of a leadership.

          Thanks for the link, been waiting for this. There's the physical mess and then there's the messing with the mauri that needs to be attended to.

          Must be horrible for people whose place it is, mana whenua and others.
16. Matiri 16

    3 March 2022 at 2:01 pm

    Picton protestors packing up and moving out after doing a lot of damage to a public park. From one of the organisers:

    Protesters had been clearing the gutters to help with drainage and were arranging, through community donations, to re-grass the area.

    “The council said it will cost them $150,000 to make the square right again. We'll send them an invoice for $120,000 for doing the job for them,” Tough said.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300531204/picton-protestors-told-to-pack-up-and-hit-the-road
    • Psycho Milt 16.1

      3 March 2022 at 2:30 pm

      This guy demonstrates as good an understanding of liability for costs as he does of public health measures.
      • Hongi Ika 16.1.1

        4 March 2022 at 6:12 am

        Who do we the taxpayers send the Bill to for the Clean Up in Wellington ?

        Maybe spread it between the different supporters Destiny Church, New Conservative Party, Winston & NZF, Antifa and the Alt Right Extremist Groups and the various Yoga Groups around the country ?
        • Hongi Ika 16.1.1.1

          4 March 2022 at 6:13 am

          … and I forgot David Seymour and the ACT Party
17. Cliopedant 17

    3 March 2022 at 2:34 pm

    Perhaps it could now be time for some MSM analyst to turn his/her analytical skills to the role of David Seymour in providing political cover/succour/encouragement to the protesters. His shameless dog-whistling and political cynicism should be given a serious examination by our political journalists. For someone who represents a very small segment of political support, he gets an inordinate amount of publicity from our media.
    • weka 17.1

      3 March 2022 at 3:28 pm

      Perhaps it could now be time for some MSM analyst to turn his/her analytical skills to the role of David Seymour in providing political cover/succour/encouragement to the protesters.

      this is a great point. I'd write a post but I can't stand listening to him.
18. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 18

    3 March 2022 at 2:38 pm

    Just listening to Seymour's blame-making speech on the motion in praise of the police etc in clearing the grounds of parliament.

    Someone needs to teach him the difference between 'human' and 'humane.'
19. Robert Guyton 19

    3 March 2022 at 4:16 pm

    Humour, from yesterday (we need more of this) Hope it presents okay.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo
    • McFlock 19.1

      3 March 2022 at 4:55 pm

      link is bust – needs to link to a specific photo.
20. Muttonbird 20

    3 March 2022 at 7:13 pm

    Leighton and Chantelle Baker:
    

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