web analytics
The Standard

Counter-protester slaps down right-wing nutjobs

Written By: - Date published: 12:27 pm, November 26th, 2007 - 90 comments
Categories: activism, election funding - Tags: ,

Just came across this video on YouTube from last week’s rally in Wellington against the Electoral Finance Bill. This clip has one of the counter-protesters giving an impressive off-the-cuff speech on why the Bill is needed.

Given the anti-EFB crowd’s only line of attack was “you’re from Young Labour” and “reveal your identity” they were kind of on the back foot from the first sentence. The squirming Tory MPs in the background are also good for a laugh. Anyone else thinking ‘ramshackle PR fiasco‘?

Links to other speeches from the rally are available over here.

90 comments on “Counter-protester slaps down right-wing nutjobs”

  1. Daveo 1

    Shit that’s a smack down all right, and it was interesting to hear how many of the crowd weren’t willing to practice what they preach on freedom of speech.

    It’s really pretty weak if the best they can come up with is to accuse him of being from young Labour and tell him to remove his mask. I sure wouldn’t show my face to that bunch of extremist creeps.

  2. It’s certainly a good statement of why an Electoral Finance Bill along the lines of the one being touted in Labour spin is needed. Unfortunately the spin version bears little relation to the actual Bill before Parliament. If they chuck that piece of shit and create one that actually does what their publicity says they want, perhaps they wouldn’t look so much like twats. Just a thought.

  3. Nih 3

    “Young Labour” is about all the right online can come up with as well. Check out burt’s comments from last night on the PR Fiasco thread, a while after his racist comments regarding black slaves and just after he claims to not be racist.

  4. God gwad this appears worse than student politics. Good on the bloke for sticking to his guns – it’s very easy to just get the shits and tell people to go to the proverbial but he kept his cool.

    Who’s that shrieking at him from the collection of MPs? MPs, if they’re going to attend rallies, should be very careful how they behave – all to often the situation gets the better of them.

  5. MikeE 5

    The important thing to note was that the protesters voluntarily gave him the microphone.

    “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”

    I wonder if Labour supporters would be so forthcoming and willing to give their opponents a voice.

    The irony is that the protestors believed in freedom of speech, enough to give someone the microphone, who wished to argue that they did not deserve this freedom.

  6. Tane 6

    MikeE – who exactly is arguing that anti-EFB protesters should not have freedom of speech? You know as well as I do that the bill does not restrict speech – it restricts spending.

  7. Robinsod 7

    I don’t want to rain on your parade Mike but I would imagine that given the media presence and the focus on “free speech” the EFB loonies were painted into a PR corner as far as providing a voice to their oposition goes.

    That said, the whole time the joker spoke Steven Franks was deliberately standing on his toes (he even kicked his bag!) What a vindictive, uncivilised and childish little tosser. Though I guess if you couple that display of impotent rage with his generally nasty nerdiness then he’s the perfect mascot for the Kiwiblog right really…

  8. Eddie 8

    What a very together guy. Maybe Labour should grab him as a candidate.

  9. the sprout 9

    exactly, the EFB is about ensuring free and roughly equal rights to speak after all.

    good on him for speaking in the face of so many loonies.

    btw yesterday’s Santa Parade in Auckland attracted 350,000. how many were at that tragic impersonation of a rally – 150? i guess DPF’s imaginary threat to democracy is a little less believable than Santa.

  10. r0b 10

    MikeE – “The important thing to note was that the protesters voluntarily gave him the microphone.”

    It’s possible the “protesters” were voluntarily offering him a chance to speak. It’s also possible that they expected that no one would front up and they could ridicule the counter protest.

    All we know for sure is that they had no interest at all in listening to what he had to say. The noise and harassment was incessant. Is that the kind of free speech that they are advocating?

    A pity they didn’t listen, because that guy gave a good speech under difficult circumstances, and kept his cool. All credit to him.

  11. Thomas 11


    i guess DPF’s imaginary threat to democracy is a little less believable than Santa.

    Sorry I know I shouldn’t but…
    I thought dpf was Santa :-)

    [rakaunui: 20 demerit points for questioning my… I mean DPF’s…. integrity. Sorry I disappeared the moment Robinsod was banned from Kiwiblog, I had some thing with, um, my kids. Yeah, that’s it… kids…]

  12. r0b 12

    “I thought dpf was Santa”

    I don’t believe that DPF is Santa / TDS or whatever. But isn’t it interesting to note that the only time DPF pops up here is to deny such rumours, and defend his “good” name.

    He’s a lot happier dishing out misinformation, innuendo and bile than he is dealing with it himself. I wonder if that ever gives him pause to think about how some of his victims feel.

    Probably not.

  13. Tane 13

    Who’s that shrieking at him from the collection of MPs?

    Looks like Jackie Blue to me.
    http://national.org.nz/MP.aspx?Id=110

  14. Billy 14

    Sorry. What was so impressive about that speech? Hardly, “I have a dream”, or “Mr Gorbachov, tear down this wall”.

    And the Bill doesn’t do what he claims it will. Anonymous donations can still be made within the threshhold that suits the Labour party.

    And Nih, it’s poor form for a homophone to call out a racist. You guys should try to get along.

  15. The Double Standard 15

    As opposed to the treatment you get at a Labour event?

  16. Billy 16

    DS, you’ve got that all wrong. It never happened.

  17. Daveo 17

    Double Standard:

    As opposed to the treatment you get at a Labour event?

    …except that Len Richards was one guy, whereas your entire crowd went feral because they couldn’t handle free speech.

    Billy:

    For an impromptu speech delivered in an extremely hostile environment I reckon he did a bloody good job. Could you deliver something so coherent and measured under that kind of pressure? I doubt it.

  18. Robert Owen 18

    Nih
    YES

  19. Robinsod 19

    Hey DPFClawsDblSTD – that’s really funny ‘cos like it’s ironical… Don’t be a dick, boy. That labour delegate had some pretty unsoud stuff said to him and he lost his rag. Your kids had a few well dressed folk make a humourous point that was contrary to their views and they went nuts. As far as I could see the counter-protestors were polite but noisy and tehy were met with violence. Oh and in temrs of Rob’s point – I think they really were betting no-one would step up to teh mike when DPF offered it and they got their bluff called. Kinda like national and their proclaimed objections to the EFB really…

  20. Billy 20

    Daveo, I suggest you stick with Len’s defence: I didn’t hit anyone. It is much better than: OK so I hit you, but at least there weren’t more of me to hit you.

    Robert Owen, you old sociopath. What convinced you to post under your own name again. Your sense of honour sated? Or have you just decided that, compared to you fellow travellers you are not as much of an embarrassment as you had assumed?

  21. r0b 21

    “As opposed to the treatment you get at a Labour event?”

    Treatment at a Labour event: about 100 people stood outside (the Labour Conference), meters from the door shouting, abusing individuals, generating incredible noise and using sirens, and so on. Labour response: no one disturbed them, no one questioned their right to be there, no one shouted them down. (One lone idiot lashed out with a megaphone).

    Treatment at a National event: One single person got up to address the group. National response: a torrent of noise and verbal abuse, 150 attacking 1.

  22. MikeE 22

    The difference being of course, that while he was free to state his views, others were free to criticise and heckle said views.

    Under the EFB, one would simply have their ability to state their views reduced.

    Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

    Would I be free to speak on the stage of a Labour conference, and say what I disagree with (and agree with, as there is labour policy I support) … I seriously doubt it.

  23. Robinsod 23

    Billy – “you old sociopath” shucks you’ve been studying my style…

  24. r0b 24

    MikeE – “The difference being of course”

    What difference?

    “that while he was free to state his views, others were free to criticise and heckle said views.”

    So he can have all the free speech he likes as long as he doesn’t actually get any?

    “Under the EFB, one would simply have their ability to state their views reduced.”

    You’ve lost me – which one?

  25. Sam Dixon 25

    Billy – I’m sure he’ld agree its not a speech for the ages, but its off the cuff and it points out why National is really against the EFB.

  26. Billy 26

    Always liked your style ‘sod. It’s just your politics I can’t abide.

  27. Gruela 27

    I think some of you guys have confused Freedom of Speech with Freedom of Ideas. The two are not always compatible, and this is in fact the central premise behind the EFB. It all comes down to one thing:

    Money! (Yay! We love it, although it is a wanton hussy who always demands more than it is willing to give.)

    I don’t think I’d be stirring up too much controversy by saying that those people with more money get more freedom of speech. It’s pretty simple, really: ads cost money. megaphone rental costs money. taking time off work to go on a protest march costs money. publishing newspapers, and therefore having control of editorial slant, costs money. (You see where I’m going with this?)

    Ideas don’t cost money, but sharing them does. So allowing an unfettered free market on free speech actually becomes a hindrance to the free exchange of ideas, and is ultimately undemocratic.

    Why should those with the means to shout the loudest always get to dictate the progression of our political debates? Indeed, why does it so often seem that these are the only voices we get to hear?

    Hence, EFB= good thing.

    P.S. To paraphrase countless generations of hobos:

    I am willing to argue for food.

  28. burt 28

    Nih

    I think you need to do one of two things.

    a) Provide a link to where I was being racist (other then where I quoted a comment of yours where you were being a racist pig)

    OR

    b) Seek professional help. It’s OK to ask for help.

    Out of interest, is this obsession you have with me likely to pass soon or is it something that is likely to stick around. Do you check under your bed every night before you go to sleep to check for the racist bogyman that only you can see?

    It’s understandable that if you were one of the counter protestors that my assertion that the counter protestors should be ashamed of themselves might upset you, it’s OK Nih – I can understand how I could upset you so much by taking a position that your mother wouldn’t. Slaging me off as a racist for no reason says a lot more about you than me.

  29. Phil 29

    The Anti-EFB protest-movement is at serious risk of losing it’s credibility, as it panders more and more to the ‘fringe’ of what may have originally been a sound and logical protest.

    I think very soon we will see it consigned to the historical dust bin, much the same as elements of the anti-war, anti-globalisation and anti-GE campaigns.

  30. Leftie 30

    Gruela
    You sure know how to tell it like it is.

  31. “You know as well as I do that the bill does not restrict speech – it restricts spending.”

    You continue to assert that, Tane, but we certainly don’t “know” it. Annette King says yes the EFB will criminalise me for expressing an anonymous political opinion on my blog, but “common sense will prevail.” I don’t see this pathetic figleaf as warranting the phrase “does not restrict speech.” Why aren’t you guys telling them to take their sorry arses back to the drawing board?

  32. Gruela 32

    Leftie

    Thank you.

    Interestingly, those same arguments are the prime reason I’m not a big fan of Citizen Initiated Referenda. If you exchange ‘money’ for ‘votes’ , by the same reasoning you get: ‘the tyranny of the majority’.

    (For further evidence watch “12 Angry Men”. Sometimes [often] that one lonely voice being drowned out by the roar of the crowd is actually the one we should be listening to.)

  33. burt 33

    Gruela

    (For further evidence watch “12 Angry Men”. Sometimes [often] that one lonely voice being drowned out by the roar of the crowd is actually the one we should be listening to.)

    Not on this blog Gruela, the one lone voice in the echo chamber is always denigrated with great vigor.

  34. Nih 34

    Oh burt, look how hard you’re working to defend yourself and hide your racism now you’ve been caught. If you’re so innocent, why such a strong response?

    As you well know I explained how you were being racist in my very first post addressing it. As if you needed the explanation. You then continued with the same behaviour indicating you knew what you were doing. You almost seemed proud of it until you started trying to bury it with dozens of posts.

    Continue to shriek and accuse others of homophobia, racism and insanity, it just makes people read back and find out why you’re making such a fuss.

    Sickening, burt. If you’re going to be racist, at least don’t be a coward about it when a digital record of your filth exists. You must have spent all your big boy points on standing by your sad attempt to distract other commenters with faux conversation.

  35. Nih 35

    Not on this blog Gruela, the one lone voice in the echo chamber is always denigrated with great vigor.

    Poor burt. He’s the only person making any sense. The rest of us should just fuck off, eh burt?

    The reason nobody wants to talk education with you is you didn’t gain any wisdom from the first few posts on the topic. You still don’t understand primary testing and why it’s performed the way it is. You’d prefer to label a fifth of the children in NZ as losers. I bet you have something to say on what you think their race is as well, eh?

  36. The Double Standard 36

    Gruela

    Ideas don’t cost money, but sharing them does. So allowing an unfettered free market on free speech actually becomes a hindrance to the free exchange of ideas, and is ultimately undemocratic.

    Why should those with the means to shout the loudest always get to dictate the progression of our political debates? Indeed, why does it so often seem that these are the only voices we get to hear?

    Hence, EFB= good thing.

    So, why not apply the restrictions all the time then? In fact, why not ban newspapers and television advertising?

    And surely, those with the means to “shout the loudest” are those with the resources of government behind them?

    Do you not see that your argument supports the incumbent to the exclusion of all other?

  37. burt 37

    Nih

    So you are going to choose option “b” ?

    So far the only person playing the race card seems to be you – do you have any justification for being such a racist ?

  38. burt 38

    Nih

    You’d prefer to label a fifth of the children in NZ as losers.

    Perhaps your racists tendencies make something out of 1 in 5 that isn’t there? I don’t know what you are getting so uptight about ? Do you think I made these numbers up ?

  39. burt 39

    Nih

    Max Call stated the 1 in 5 discussion.

    See: According to Nih this is racist !

    What resources is National going to put in place to address “one in five Kiwi children – a staggering 150,000 – are not succeeding at school”
    You can test the children everyday if you like but it will not help those who aren’t succeeding!

    You lost it Nih – well and truly lost the plot. What next mate – call Max Call a racist and unload your own crap on him, continue digging yourself a credibility hole by attacking me or just be an adult and apologise for reading something into my comments that was simply not there ?

  40. Gruela 40

    Double:

    “And surely, those with the means to “shout the loudest” are those with the resources of government behind them?”

    Nope. I believe that would be Rupert Murdoch, actually. (And the Packer family. And Wal-Mart. And the U.S. Government. And OPEC. And Exxon Mobil. And the Catholic church. And the U.N. And Microsoft.) But I see your point. There should be a definite separation between the state and state-owned media, just as there should be between the legislature, judiciary, public service (I’m looking at YOU, David Parker), police force and defence forces.

    And you can’t ban newspapers and ads. I realise that. But you CAN take steps to ensure that more voices are heard through those mediums, and that the ‘reporting’ and ads that we are subjected are required to undergo rigorous testing as to balance, fairness and transparency. There are ways of doing this without democracy having to come to a sticky end.

    There used to be laws in this country (and many others) enforcing strict controls on media ownership, in order to prevent the very oligarchy of media control we now have in this country.

    I’ll make a deal with you. I’ll trade you one Electoral Finance Bill for one Complete Break-Up of the Media Conglomerates in New Zealand.

  41. The Double Standard 41

    I was mainly referring to the tens of millions that Teh Party spends on “government” communications, and how that amount is effectively unlimited. It can promote the policies and approach of the party in power. Should those who disagree not be able to respond? Or should we blindly accept anything that Teh Party says?

    But you CAN take steps to ensure that more voices are heard through those mediums, and that the ‘reporting’ and ads that we are subjected are required to undergo rigorous testing as to balance, fairness and transparency.

    Yeah – we should have only one published source of balance, fairness and transparency. Why don’t we call it Pravda?

    Are you really suggesting that state regulation of the media will result in a better world? I’m sure that the happy people of Nth Korea would agree.

  42. Gruela 42

    Double

    No, I’m suggesting that the state should regulate the media market, so that no one or two company(ies) could dominate the market, as they do now. There’s nothing especially radical in that, and in fact it’s pretty well accepted economic doctrine for small, open markets such as New Zealand.

    As to the “government” communications: well, the whole point of the public service is to implement new Govt. policy, (as well as managing the apparatus of state.)

    So let’s take Working for Families as an example. Surely the Ministry for Social Development should be allowed to spend x dollars promoting this, and informing the public how to go about collecting the extras dosh they’re entitled to. I find it difficult to envisage how they’re supposed to do this without “promot(ing) the policies and approach of the party in power.”

    On the other hand, I think it would be entirely appropriate to have a complete ban on advertising by the public service during the run-up to an election. Should we say, for that year up until election day? It’s true that the party in power COULD use this to gain an unfair advantage, and we wouldn’t want anything like that happening, would we? Nope, it should be open and transparent all the way.

    P.S. Could you please explain the ‘Teh’ Party? I don’t get it.

  43. Tane 43

    P.S. Could you please explain the ‘Teh’ Party? I don’t get it.

    He’s trying to be witty, like his second-hand username.

  44. Gruela 44

    Yeah, but I think ‘The Double Standard’ is kinda funny. ‘Teh’ Party just goes right over my head.

  45. Tane 45

    Oh, it is. But he nicked it from Robinsod. There’s a great post over on Kiwiblog where they’re trying to come up with funny names but all they can work out is things like “the average”, “the sub standard” and “the very low standard”. Robinsod pops in and offers them “the double standard” as a gift for their stupidity. And it appears TDS took him up on the offer.

  46. Robinsod 46

    I’d just like to ask once more why DPFClawStdDBl decided to use my wee joke as his name. I think he thinks it’ll make him look smart (and he really wants to be my friend). Poor DFPClawsdblestd.

  47. Gruela 47

    Okay, I didn’t know that. I would have gone for Substandard myself.

  48. Tane 48

    I kind of liked “thestupid”.

  49. The Double Standard 49

    On the other hand, I think it would be entirely appropriate to have a complete ban on advertising by the public service during the run-up to an election. Should we say, for that year up until election day? It’s true that the party in power COULD use this to gain an unfair advantage, and we wouldn’t want anything like that happening, would we? Nope, it should be open and transparent all the way.

    And do you think Teh Party will do that? Not F’ing likely!
    Just look at what Mallard was up to in the house this week if you want an example of Teh Party playing “fair”.

    Since the corresponding suspension of govt propaganda is a non-starter, do you think it is fair that the EFB muzzles (both directly and indirectly) everyone else?

    Here’s the story on my nick.
    http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=728#comment-5076

  50. r0b 50

    “I would have gone for Substandard myself.”

    The best ones are all taken, but also worth a mention: bogstandard, thestranded.

  51. Gruela 51

    Double:

    I’m not an Labour follower, so I’m not going to defend Mallard, (any more than I think Brownlee could be defended by National supporters. Or Ryall, for that matter)

    But I do think your use of the word muzzle is quite appropriate, because we all know what muzzles are used for. Big companies, and their big CEOs, are like big dogs. They’re very useful, but they have to be well trained and if they get out of control or if you let them think that they’re suddenly the dominant member of your pack, then, yeah, it’s time to muzzle them.

    My defence of Labour and the EFB is quite simple, really, and it just comes down to this:

    National have said that if they get into power after the next election they will REPEAL the EFB, not fix it. I’d rather vote for a partial solution to a problem than the denial that one exists.

  52. redbus 52

    Would I be free to speak on the stage of a Labour conference…
    – The short answer is no, because the stage at a Party Conference is usually reserved for the leader to speak. However, at other functions, should the occasion call for public debate, then you would certainly be allowed by Labour to sport your views. To think otherwise is delusional.

  53. r0b 53

    Ho redbus – welcome aboard!

  54. frank 54

    You’ve obviously never been to Trafalgar Square, where everyone gets a say and everyone gets to hoot the speaker down. Home of NZ’s peculiar version of democracy, England. Free speech there is a constitutional issue. If it were here, the EFB would be out the door. The right to say something certainly does not include any “right” not to be disparaged, sometimes at enormously tedious, witless length (witness this blog) for what you say.

  55. Lee C 55

    I like to call it ‘The Very Double Standard’ or ‘VDS’, but no one appears to find it even remotely funny.

    Which just makes me want to do it more.

    So I do.

  56. rOb:

    You seem to be rewriting history. Labour Party luminary Jill Ovens disagrees substantially with your version of the Labour Party protest: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0711/S00062.htm

    Her own press release reads: “Although my speech was supportive of the position of the protesters, they just would not let me speak. John Minto was leading chants. When he finally stopped and I had space to speak, the protesters were yelling at me, ‘Lies, lies’. The leadership of the protest made no attempt to stop the abuse,” Ms Ovens says.

    She tried for quite a while to deliver her speech, and finally she put the megaphone down and walked off.”

  57. Tane 57

    I like you Lee, even if you’re not a chick.

  58. Tane 58

    IP, was that the same Labour Party luminary Jill Ovens who nine months ago was on the Alliance’s executive and was referring to Labour MPs as ‘dogs’?

  59. r0b 59

    “You seem to be rewriting history. Labour Party luminary Jill Ovens disagrees substantially with your version of the Labour Party protest:”

    Sorry IP, I am a bear of very little brain. You’ll have to explain it to me. How is that account and my account different?

  60. redbus 60

    Is The Standard considering changing the name of this site?

    How about, ‘Not Farrah‘?

  61. redbus 61

    Opps!!

    I meant:

    Is The Standard condidering changing the name of this site?

    How abour, ‘Not Farrah‘?

  62. redbus 62

    Ahhh… bugger. I BLOODY WELL SPELT ‘about’ WRONG! Now I know how the ALP feels!

  63. r0b 63

    “condidering” wasn’t exactly correct either, but hey, don’t sweat the small stuff. :-)

  64. r0b 64

    So IP, wassup? Are you going to exapand on your intriguing accusation, or are you just a big tease?

  65. r0b 65

    Anyway, redbus, re your question, no name change is being considered (don’t mess with a successful brand!). For the context to these “other names” see the post above From Tane Nov 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pm

  66. thomas 66

    What I want to Know David/ santa /double standard
    is why to you have a go at me when I call you by your three handles .But not Robinsod you’re not the same person are you

  67. lowering the standard of lowering the standard while lowering the standard 67

    The poor chap looks like an possum caught in the headlights. I don’t get the bit where he says he’s not Labour supporter then parrots Labour party lines. Is he doing some ‘double standard’ thing where he’ll say anything to get the crowds attention? The man could be a replacement for Winston!

  68. Gruela 68

    lowering the standard of lowering the standard while lowering the standard:
    Are you talking about me? Also, are you drunk?

  69. burt 69

    Gruela

    No I wasn’t talking about you. I was talking about this blog.

    Daveo wade’s in at the start with:

    “Shit that’s a smack down all right, and it was interesting to hear how many of the crowd weren’t willing to practice what they preach on freedom of speech.

    And it was interesting to see that a twat who was involved in a counter protest, with the sole purpose of drowning out and misrepresenting another groups message, then expected to be heard some more.

    He had the hypocrisy to ask for a chance to be heard, having been part of a group that was shouting down a legitimate protest and distorting it’s message to the public. Then the twit tries to say this bill is about a level playing field having just stomped over peoples democratic right to protest! The man must be a complete buffoon!

    His performance and your support of it is not helping your argument that the EFB is not all about shutting down dissent. Keep it up.

  70. redbus 70

    I realised I spelt ‘considering’ incorrectly, but I didn’t bother posting a fourth comment – three comments about idiotic trivialities seemed a bit much.

  71. burt 71

    Gruela

    Are you Winston?

  72. You really aren’t up with the play, Tane. Jill Ovens has joined the Labour Party. http://workersparty.org.nz/thespark/aug17-06/Alliance leader joins Labour.htm

    r0b: you claimed that right wing protesters in Wellington were rowdy and uncivilised, and wouldn’t let opponents speak. You also claimed that left wing protesters at the Labour Party conference were civilised and respectful. Jill Ovens’ press release clearly states the opposite.

  73. Gruela 73

    burt:

    Damn! you rumbled me.

    All kidding aside, I think I would probably be more likely to vote for the Man-Goat Love Association party than I would be to vote for NZ First.

    As to the EFB protest, I wasn’t there. I don’t know what happened. I will say, however, that a general guideline that has seen me well over thirty years is: In any argument there are two sides and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

  74. redbus 74

    IP, when you say, “left-wing protesters at the Labour Party conference”, do you mean those who came to protest the anti-terror raids, or those members present at the Labour Conference? Because those anti-terror protesters were far more in numbers than those few members who decided to speak.

  75. burt 75

    Whaleoil has a great post which is on the same topic as this thread:

    In 35 Days this will be NZ

    Having just spent three hours tonight with my head down over the pieces it’s great to head something about such a master.

  76. r0b 76

    IP – “you claimed that right wing protesters in Wellington were rowdy and uncivilised, and wouldn’t let opponents speak.”

    What? Eh? There was a group of people protesting against the police raids. I don’t think it’s easy to characterise them politically, but “right wing” is a pretty unlikely label. Let’s just call them the protesters.

    IP – “You also claimed that left wing protesters at the Labour Party conference were civilised and respectful.”

    I said no such thing. I said that the Labour Party members / delegates were civilised and respectful (except for one idiot with a megaphone).

    “Jill Ovens’ press release clearly states the opposite.”

    Tell me how?

  77. redbus 77

    Man-Goat Love Association party
    – Have you been paying extra attention to Owen Newitt on the ‘Vicar of Dibley‘?

  78. Gruela 78

    I’ve never seen the Vicar of Dibley, but I’ll tell you, it gets cold in these parts some nights.

    Also, burt, I’m disappointed in you. Finding any relevance in a comparison between the Russian and New Zealand political situations doesn’t really expand on a reasonable debate about the benefits and drawbacks of the EFB.

    No-one’s claiming the legislation is perfect, but to claim that protesters will be dragged to the cells if the don’t put their names and addresses on their placards isn’t justified.

  79. r0b 79

    Gruela, if you’re newish to the local political blogs, here’s a simple guideline that will save you a lot of time. Whale runs a hate site, you won’t find anything of value there.

  80. Tane 80

    Prick – I didn’t say Jill hadn’t joined the Labour Party. My point is that she’s only a recent (and by all accounts reluctant) convert and hardly the big player you were making her out to be. But I guess that lack of background knowledge is to be expected from an insolent punter like yourself.

  81. r0b 81

    IP – I see that I got confused about what you said, just as you got confused about what I said. At this time of the morning I’m not going to unravel it all in detail. Whatever. Goodnight.

  82. redbus 82

    “…hardly the big player…”
    Yet she was allowed to host a conference on poverty with members (most of whom were top unionists) at the Labour Party Conference.

    She may not be as ‘big’, but she certainly isn’t ‘small’.

  83. Gruela 83

    rOb

    Thanks, I’ve just been there. He certainly has an interesting outlook on things, doesn’t he?

    It’s always struck me as a kind of sad marker of human nature that there seem to be such angry people in New Zealand. I think maybe we should all get out into the fresh air more often, and maybe have a bit of a sing and a dance.

  84. Tane 84

    redbus, her ‘conference’ was an impromptu meeting in a small room and wasn’t listed on the agenda. She’s got the influence one would expect from a regional secretary of an affiliate union, but her power extends no further than that and she’s by no means a power-broker in the party. She’s certainly no “Labour Party luminary” as Prick suggested.

  85. r0b 85

    “It’s always struck me as a kind of sad marker of human nature that there seem to be such angry people in New Zealand.”

    It’s far from an NZ problem of course. The anger in American politics scares the bejazus out of me.

    “I think maybe we should all get out into the fresh air more often, and maybe have a bit of a sing and a dance”

    Agreed on that one, though there are some who would say that my dancing does not contribute anything much to world peace…

  86. redbus 86

    Tane, I didn’t agree with the assertion that Jill is a “luminary” within the party. But the fact that she can call an impromptu meeting with the Labour faithful and actually draw a crowd speaks volumes to me. She isn’t a huge player, but she can not be talked down by saying, ‘she’s new, so don’t think she’s that important within Labour’.

  87. Max Call 87

    Hi there Burt and Nih,

    My stat of ‘one in five kiwi children…’ came from the National Partys ‘Policy Summary – National Education Standards’ that was delivered in my letterbox last week. Sorry if this was not made clear in my previous posts.

    Personally after working in secondary schools in NZ (one decile 4 school and one decile 8 school) I have serious doubts over this stat myself and how they are measuring this…. but anyway my orginal posts were more about discussing how their policy summary was ‘hollow’

  88. Phil 88

    “Having just spent three hours tonight with my head down over the pieces it’s great to head something about such a master.”

    Burt!
    You never struck me as being the intellectual chess playing type…

  89. PhilBest 89

    This is pathetic. A contest of ideas? So why is the Left so jealous of its control over teaching institutions and journalism? A contest of IDEAS? In NEW ZEALAND? Bah.

    Furthermore, this guy spends most of his time mouthing on about “secret trusts” funding political parties. So why is this bill about EVERYTHING BUT transparency? Does Helen know she’s got a few million coming from George Soros, or Ted Turner, or Richard Branson or the like one day?

  90. slightlyrighty 90

    This is the speech by Dr Eric Crampton at todays rally in Christchurch.

    “It takes a lot to drag an academic economist out of his office to a political rally downtown. If this were simply a protest over bad legislation, I’d have stayed in Ilam: bad legislation, unfortunately, isn’t all that uncommon.

    And, this is very bad legislation – so bad that, even after amendment,the New Zealand Law Society wants it scrapped. This is amazing. When law is badly drafted, it’s the lawyers that profit by the resulting court battles. Lawyers from Chapman Tripp warn that the courts may well decide the next election – they expect court action. Legislation has to be shockingly bad before we’d expect lawyers to say it should be scrapped entirely, but that’s what they’ve done. Even the Electoral Commission, who has to give advice on compliance with the legislation, is reported to have thrown up its hands: it can’t make heads or tails of the legislation either, and so can’t provide advice.

    Even worse, the legislation seems pointless.

    The best social science evidence shows that donations to political parties don’t buy the donor a whole lot in terms of changes in policy. And, when sitting politicians spend money on election campaigns, the spending doesn’t have a very big effect on vote share. Spending can matter a lot for challengers, who have to work very hard to get their names known. But, spending doesn’t matter much for incumbent politicians.

    Further tightening up of campaign spending rules, and especially changes like the ones now proposed that allow political parties to use Parliamentary budgets for electioneering, protect sitting MPs against challenges by newcomers. It’s an incumbent protection racket plain and simple. New parties and new ideas will be frozen out, and the same old hacks are guaranteed job security.

    As bad as all of that is, it’s not the main reason I’m here.

    This isn’t just bad law. It’s a bad law that affects how we make laws, and threatens the legitimacy of government itself. Constitutional rules stand apart from other bits of legislation. They affect fundamental rights and freedoms, and they set out how all the other rules will be written. The Electoral Finance Bill directly affects our freedom of speech. Once it’s passed, we’ll only have freedom of speech 2 years in 3. And, it sets out the rules for how an election is conducted – how legislation for the subsequent three years will be formed. These have constitutional implications.

    Constitutional rules aren’t like other rules. They really require broad agreement across society. I studied under James Buchanan, who won the Nobel Prize in economics for his work in this area. He likened it to setting out the rules for a poker game: you get everybody to agree to the rules before you deal the cards. If everybody’s agreed to the rules before the cards are dealt, the outcome of the game is fair and legitimate. What Labour and its support parties here have done is dealt the cards, taken a peek at their hands, and then declared deuces wild. This violates constitutional justice and threatens the legitimacy of any government that is elected under the new rules.

    Electoral rules – constitutional rules – require broad agreement if the government that’s formed under them is to have legitimacy. We’re here today to say that we don’t give that assent. If Labour rams this bill through Parliament, shuts up anyone who opposes it during the 2008 election, then squeeks through a tight coalition win after a lot of litigation, will that government have any legitimacy?

    That’s why this Bill must be stopped and that’s why I’m here. The Bill violates the spirit of our constitutional foundations. It throws freedom of speech out the window. And it rigs the election to protect the politicians who pass it. Helen Clark, Annette King, throw out this Bill!”

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Labour mourns Dame Dorothy Fraser
    Labour Leader Andrew Little said the party is today mourning the loss of the youngest person to join the Labour Party, Dame Dorothy Fraser, who went on to be a stalwart of the Dunedin community and tireless worker for others.… ...
    13 hours ago
  • The ultimate scapegoat: PM blames fruit fly for new tax
    The Prime Minister has found the ultimate scapegoat for breaking his promise not to introduce a new tax – the Queensland fruit fly, Labour’s Biosecurity spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “John Key’s first policy upon taking office and assigning himself the… ...
    16 hours ago
  • How many victims missing out on protection?
    Hundreds of domestic abuse victims could be missing out on getting protection orders because they are unable to get legal aid, Labour’s Justice spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says.“In the last two years some 351 people who applied for legal aid for… ...
    2 days ago
  • Government kicks hardworking whanau
    A major incentive to help young Kiwis and people on low incomes to start saving has been kicked out from under them with the National-led Government ramming through short-sighted legislation under Urgency today, Labour’s Maori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says.… ...
    2 days ago
  • Speculator tax political stunt gone wrong
    Bill English’s admission he doesn’t know whether National’s new speculator tax will have any effect shows last weekend’s announcement by the Prime Minister was a desperate political stunt, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “This Government is so desperate to… ...
    3 days ago
  • The value of parenting
    This week, as part of the Budget, the government introduced a bill to address child poverty. This bill will require parents receiving income support to look for part-time work once their youngest child is three years of age rather than… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    3 days ago
  • Another new tax, another broken promise
    National has unveiled yet another new tax in this budget – a rural broadband levy that will almost certainly result in an immediate price hike for internet and telephone connections across New Zealand, Labour’s ICT spokesperson Clare Curran said “The… ...
    4 days ago
  • Anniversary of Sri Lankan Tamil Massacre
    This is not going to be a happy story but if the Green Party of Aotearoa doesn’t want to know who else will? May 18th marks the anniversary of what is known as the ‘Mullivaikal massacre’ of Tamils in 2009 at… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    4 days ago
  • Labour MPs join youth to take part in 40 hour famine
    A team of Labour MPs took part in the 2015 World Vision 40 hour famine and we were told by World Vision and the young people, that it was the first time MPs had joined them and how appreciative they… ...
    4 days ago
  • Rodeo: ‘Family entertainment’ or animal abuse?
    Recently  TVNZ ran a story with confronting footage showing rodeo animals being punched, repeatedly shocked with electronic prods and having their tails violently twisted over their backs. It was clear that significant force was being used behind the scenes to make… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers MP
    4 days ago
  • Budget puts the squeeze on police
    The Government has cut funding to the New Zealand police force in the latest Budget, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “The reduction is a whopping $15.3 million that could put front line officers at risk. ...
    4 days ago
  • Crucial social services take another hit
    The Government looks set to slash half a million dollars of funding for critical social services, including Women’s Refuge and Barnados, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni “Taking $500,000 from organisations aimed at improving the lives of vulnerable families… ...
    4 days ago
  • Saying it Loud on Climate in Christchurch
    The Government’s Christchurch consultation meeting on New Zealand’s emission targets was inspiring – not for what was in the Ministry for the Environment’s (MFE’s) defeatist video about the obstacles to changing to a low carbon future, but for what the… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    4 days ago
  • Budget silent on small business
    The Government has completely ignored one of the most important sectors of the economy – small and medium-sized enterprises – in Budget 2015, Labour’s Small Business spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. "A stunning 41 per cent of jobs were created by… ...
    4 days ago
  • Thank you John, it’s been bloody marvellous
    The departure of John Campbell is a blow to current affairs investigative journalism, Labour’s Broadcasting Spokesperson Clare Curran says. “Campbell Live stood out in its field. Its axing comes as local broadcasting in New Zealand remains in a state of… ...
    4 days ago
  • KiwiSaver cut shows no long-term plan
    National’s cutting of the KiwiSaver kickstart is incredibly short-term thinking, typical of a Budget that is woefully short on ideas to generate wealth and opportunity, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “New Zealand’s savings rate is far too low. KiwiSaver… ...
    4 days ago
  • National hits the panic button for its 7th Budget
    National has hit the panic button for its 7th Budget in a desperate attempt to look like they’re taking action to reduce our shameful child poverty rates, but they are giving with one hand and taking with the other, Opposition… ...
    5 days ago
  • Panic and back-flips can’t hide twin deficits
    National’s token measures to fight fires they have left burning for seven long years can’t hide a Budget that is long on broken promises, short on vision and fails to reach surplus, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “After being… ...
    5 days ago
  • Auckland land measure seven years too late
    National are so desperate to look like they are doing something about the Auckland housing crisis they have dusted off Labour’s 2008 inventory of government land available for housing and re-announced it, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Despite National… ...
    5 days ago
  • Access to gender reassignment surgery essential
    I was frankly disgusted to hear the Minister for Health say that funding gender reassignment surgeries is a “nutty idea”. A recent study found that in New Zealand 1% of young people identified themselves as transgender, and 3% were unsure… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    6 days ago
  • Global milk prices now lowest in 6 years
    The latest fall in the global dairy price has brought it to the lowest level in six years and shows there must be meaningful action in tomorrow’s Budget to diversify the economy, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Dairy prices… ...
    6 days ago
  • Big risks as CYF checks stopped
    Revelations that Child, Youth and Family is no longer assisting home-based early childhood educators by vetting potential employees should set alarm bells ringing, Labour Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “Doing away with an extra mechanism for checking potential new employees… ...
    6 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    7 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    7 days ago
  • State of origin
    Kiwis are increasingly concerned about the food they give their families. New Zealand consumers have the right to know where their food has come from, particularly when it involves animals, and should be able to expect our Government to label… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    7 days ago
  • Relationships Aotearoa
    It is disturbing that Relationships Aotearoa, a voluntary organisation set up in 1949 to help couples struggling with their relationships following the upheavals of World War II, may be forced to close, says Acting Spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community… ...
    7 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    7 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    7 days ago
  • House prices to a crack $1 million in 17 months
    The average Auckland home is on track to cost $1 million in 17 months’ time if nothing substantial is done to rein in soaring price rises, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Auckland’s house prices have skyrocketed 63 per cent… ...
    7 days ago
  • Vital support services can’t be left in lurch
    The National Government has big questions to answer about how a provider of services to thousands of vulnerable New Zealanders is set to fold, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. Relationships Aotearoa which provides support and counselling to families, individuals… ...
    1 week ago
  • Treasury and IRD on a capital gains tax
    Both the Treasury and IRD have been advising the National Government on the benefits of a capital gains tax. Documents released to the Green Party under an Official Information Act request show that John Key has been selective with the… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    1 week ago
  • Charity legislation needs review
    It is unacceptable that the big corporate based charities claim  millions in annual income tax exemptions, while small community based and operated non-profit organisations  struggle to gain official charity status, Labour’s acting spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community Sector Louisa… ...
    1 week ago
  • John’s panic-Key response to housing crisis
    John Key needs to tell New Zealanders what caused his sudden change of heart that led to the Government’s scrambled and last-minute housing measures, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “The Prime Minister’s sudden rush of blood to his head followed… ...
    1 week ago
  • Keep our Assets Christchurch Campaign: An update
    I recently presented my submission to keep Christchurch Council assets at the Christchurch City Council’s public hearings on its 10 year plan on 13 May. The hearings are live-streamed and recorded so you can watch them on www.ccc.govt.nz. The Council’s… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    1 week ago
  • John Key finally admits there’s a housing crisis
    John Key’s weak measures to rein in the astronomical profits property speculators are making are an admission – finally – that there is a housing crisis, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “But yet again National is tinkering with the housing… ...
    1 week ago
  • Government stifles voices in CYFs review
    The Government’s exclusion of the Māori Women’s Welfare League in a panel on the future of CYFs is a cynical ploy to stifle views, says Labour’s Māori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “It's unbelievable that a significant review on the future… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the Otago Chamber of Commerce
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. It’s a pleasure as always to be back in the town that raised me. Growing up in St Kilda meant that there was one thing that was a big… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Key can’t just be Prime Minister for Parnell
    John Key must show New Zealanders in next week’s Budget that he is more than the Prime Minister for Parnell, and is also the Prime Minister for Pine Hill, Putararu and Palmerston North, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. In… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Stop the conversions
    This week, some Waikato locals took me and intrepid photographer Amanda Rogers on a tour of some  lakes and waterways in their region, and up to the massive dairy conversions in the upper catchment of the Waikato River. It… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    2 weeks ago
  • More regional jobs go in Corrections reshape
    News that 194 Corrections staff are to lose their jobs will have ramifications not only for them and their families but for the wider community, Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. Prison units at Waikeria, Tongariro and Rimutaka face closure… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government’s climate meetings off to a bumpy start
    On Wednesday, I attended a hui and an evening meeting that the Government had organised in Nelson as part of its climate change consultation tour, to support the Nelson community telling the Government to take meaningful action on climate change.… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Taxpayers the only ones left feeling blue
    Ministry of Social Development bosses could have saved themselves thousands of dollars in consultants’ fees by providing staff with rose-tinted spectacles, Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. A report out today reveals the Ministry is spending over half a… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Why are the regions still facing restrictions?
    Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford is questioning why the regions should continue to be saddled with LVR lending restrictions announced by the Reserve Bank today. “Labour has been calling for the regions to be exempted from LVRs for the best… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The high costs of weak environmental regulation
    Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere is described on the Department of Conservation website as “Canterbury’s largest and New Zealand’s fifth largest [lake], and an internationally important wildlife area.” But the lake is also polluted by nutrients leaching from farms in the catchment.… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Submissions to Wellington City Council on their Gambling Venues Policy
    Every three years Councils across the country are required to check that their gambling venue policies are still fit for purpose and they can choose to consult on their policy if they are thinking of making changes. Councils don’t have… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    2 weeks ago
  • Reserve Bank action shows Govt out of touch and out of ideas
    The Reserve Bank’s unprecedented measures today show it understands the serious risks of the overheating housing market – in complete contrast to John Key’s refusal to acknowledge the crisis, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The Bank is right to… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Send us your snaps: 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year we've hit a milestone. We're turning 25.To help celebrate a quarter of a century, please send us your photos from the last 25 years of the Green Party Aotearoa New Zealand! Note: Photos must be jpg, gif or… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year the Green Party sends 25. To help us celebrate a quarter of a century please send us you photos of 25 years of the Green Party!Photos must be jpg,gif or png and smaller than 2MB. If you are… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bay growth plan too little too late
    Today’s Bay of Plenty growth study from MBIE is another example of Government spin - lots of talk but little action, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Cunliffe.  “This is a region that desperately needs to develop the downstream processing… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government bows to ACC pressure
     The Government has finally buckled to pressure from Labour and the New Zealand public in making a half billion dollar cut to ACC levies, but the full benefits are two years away,” says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “$500 million over… ...
    2 weeks ago

Public service advertisements by The Standard

Current CO2 level in the atmosphere