Crushed Collins

Written By: - Date published: 8:20 am, May 6th, 2014 - 163 comments
Categories: john key, Judith Collins, national, national/act government, same old national - Tags:

crusher collins

So it has come to this. The self styled crusher of boy racer’s cars, the politician who joked about rape in prison, the Minister who smashed up the Family Court and trampled over David Bain’s rights of Natural Justice is having a bit of time out.  She will be available to answer questions in the house today and tomorrow but will then take time off until Budget day.

It is not clear if she was ordered to or volunteered to take the time off.  Clearly on the weekend she was out of control.  The senior levels of the Labour Party in their wildest dreams could not have thought of a more effective way to turn the media totally against National.  Millions of dollars of Crosby Textor advice has been wiped out by Collins’ attack on Katie Bradford.

Martyn Bradbury thinks that the attack was Machiavellian rather than misguided and it may be that the attack was prompted by thoughts of what would be popular to her right wing base in the National Party.  But if this was the thinking it made as much sense as the thought that to save the village you had to destroy the village.

Collins’ future as a Cabinet Minister must be bleak.  Serious questions are being asked about if she has misled Parliament.  Her claims that her dinner with Oravida directors and an unnamed Chinese Public Servant who worked in border control was a private one where business was not discussed seems less and less likely with every new disclosure.  And her description of how she dropped in for a cup of tea at Oravida’s headquarters appears to be more and more fanciful given the official steps taken to make sure the visit was a success.

On top of this are this morning’s revelations that Oravida received a quarantine clearance certificate weeks after the infamous private dinner and shortly before the further donation to the National Party by Oravida of $30,000 was made.

Collins’ days as a minister should be numbered.  If they are not then she will become an albatross around the party’s neck at election time.  The delightful irony is that if Key does move against her there will be a backlash from the Collins faction in National’s caucus and if he does not the attacks will continue.

The big question National strategists must be asking is what damage this is causing to Brand Key.  His image has also been used in Oravida advertising and there was that game of golf with Oravida Director Stone Shi where the fee went to the charity known as the National Party so he has obviously been heavily involved in the fundraising.  It makes you wonder if Key did know all the details about Collins’ trip beforehand and said that he was relaxed about it.  Whatever his view National is looking more and more like a trade office for Chinese business interests.

This afternoon should be interesting.  Tune in to Parliament at 2 pm to watch.

163 comments on “Crushed Collins ”

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  1. Tiger Mountain 1
    6 May 2014 at 8:35 am

    Everything one thought about senior tories seems to be true. Highly unpleasant, on the take, vengeful, bullying, grannie selling comprador capitalists. It is extraordinary to see it in such plain view.

  2. One Anonymous Bloke 2
    6 May 2014 at 9:06 am

    Collins didn’t just attack Bradford. She threatened the entire press gallery. Why hasn’t Key forced an apology for that out of her?

    It’s because she’s stronger than he is.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1
      6 May 2014 at 9:57 am

      I think that Collins retains significant support within the National Party hierarchy and caucus. Making her take time off is probably the most that Key can do to her at this stage given those internal National Party politics.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 10:31 am

        She should throw him under a bus and take charge.

        • Sacha 2.1.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 12:14 pm

          She has been trying to persuade Key to step down for ages, but the blighter grimly hangs on.

  3. Ennui 3
    6 May 2014 at 9:09 am

    Can’t help thinking that Shonkey has done a pre-emptive strike on Judith. She may be throwing a tanty because of this, the realisation that she is damged goods and no longer cabinet or leadership material.

  4. Graeme Stanley 4
    6 May 2014 at 9:10 am

    Will Maurice Williamson be in Parliament today or will he be out mowing lawns and fixing spouting in Pakuranga for beneficiaries?

  5. Bearded Git 5
    6 May 2014 at 9:11 am

    What I found interesting is the way Crusher’s constituents seem to be turning against her. Good work by Morning Report today:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2594838/papakura-voters-sceptical-of-collins-after-oravida-scandal

    • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1
      6 May 2014 at 12:29 pm

      Papakura central is a strong Labour area, Collins only wins based on the tory voters in the surrounding lifestyle blocks. The election will show a big drop in her majority as the electorate shrinks back to its urban core after boundary changes

  6. Not a PS Staffer 6
    6 May 2014 at 9:30 am

    A lie that Collins continually rolls out is that her husband is “only a director, not a shareholder, and had no financial interest in Oravida”.

    I say this is a lie because he is a working executive in Oravida and probably earning $200k+ per annum. That is a significant financial interest.

    • Ennui 6.1
      6 May 2014 at 10:48 am

      To find this out for sure the Companies Office should have a copy of Orividas Annual Report. These usually include:
      a. A list of Directors
      b. Director remuneration
      c. Shareholding of majority shareholders
      d. A list of employees earning over $100K.

      • Wyndham, George 6.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 2:55 pm

        I do not think the remuneration requirement applies to privately owned companies. Foreign owned companies do have to file their accounts. However David Wong Tung works for a subsidiary company of the overseas owned company .

        • Tracey 6.1.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 3:02 pm

          you are right, ennuis list includes non compulsory items.

          what does collins husband do for a living?

          • Not a PS Staffer 6.1.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 5:37 pm

            Works for Ovida! He is a full time executive.

            • Tracey 6.1.1.1.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 5:48 pm

              ;l

              some seem to think he is a director of five oravida for the sheer generosity of it.

    • Tracey 6.2
      6 May 2014 at 4:20 pm

      there are five companies containing the word oravida on the nz companies office register. ms collins is a director of all of them.

      he is not doing that for the love of it. being a director can often be more lucrative than being a shareholder.

  7. Pascal's bookie 7
    6 May 2014 at 9:30 am

    “Mr Key says it was her idea to take some time off to relax, but his idea for her to stick around a bit longer.”

    Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Documents-back-Collins-version-of-events—Key/tabid/1607/articleID/342920/Default.aspx#ixzz30sOvWLp1

    Yep. It’s her mess and there is no way in hell Key is going to have anyone answer questions for her. If she survives, she survives, but he’s put it on her.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1
      6 May 2014 at 10:39 am

      Mr Key says the email trail leading up to the dinner proves it was never intended to be an official function, and the office visit was so low a priority that it was scheduled last on the agenda, so it could be dropped if Ms Collins ran out of time…

      Doesn’t akshully address the fact that the purpose of the visit was to increase Oravida’s profile.

      It’s issued by the Chinese government and it’s got nothing to do with the New Zealand Government…

      And nothing whatsoever to do with anonymous border officials. No, wait…

    • freedom 7.2
      6 May 2014 at 11:35 am

      How much help will The Speaker be allowed to give her in the House today?
      Key will want to protect the Government but Collins has to be seen to answer questions.

      Tough day for the three of them really.

      • Anne 7.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:20 pm

        And Brownlee. He’s going to be up an down like a yo yo with points of order this arvo. Do him good. He might lose some weight.

    • Tracey 7.3
      6 May 2014 at 3:03 pm

      she appears to not know she wont be in parliament on thursday, or next tuesday and meds.

  8. Bill 8
    6 May 2014 at 9:42 am

    Is it just me who’s ‘over’ the taste of soap in my mouth?

    So, they shove through the budget and then dump her (or not). And the whole thing is academic tosh by that point as Collins (if dumped) sails off into a sunset of entitlement and privilege. Then, in years to come, we read accounts (okay, we probably won’t in this instance because Collins isn’t prominent enough) written from the vantage of privilege and entitlement of how she was ‘hard done by’? Point is, in years to come, we will still be spectators to politicians riding this fucking merry-go-round of entitlement and privilege.

    So, here’s the question I have. How do we monkey-wrench that fairground ride? How do we prevent the ascendancy of future Collins’ and Jones’s?

    • phillip ure 8.1
      6 May 2014 at 9:53 am

      “..So, here’s the question I have. How do we monkey-wrench that fairground ride?..”

      ..you look at the policies of the political party(ies) that are offering ‘monkey-wrenches’..

    • karol 8.2
      6 May 2014 at 9:53 am

      Apparently the Labour Party is looking at reforming the public services in an attempt to thwart cronyist corruption. Colin James post.

      Labour spokesperson Maryan Street in a speech last week detected an erosion of “the 1912 bulwark against corruption”: ministers meddling in appointment processes, using officials to “crush citizens” and reducing officials’ capacity to give “free and frank” advice and “protect citizens from (ministers’) arbitrary decisions and illegal and harmful actions”.

      Labour wants a royal commission to fix all that, including to look “how the public service could operate across ministries and departments in the interests of the public”.

      But this still seems like a top down approach. The problem is partly about gettng big money out of government. Ending private donations to political parties might help.

      More checks and balances, and Paul Buchanan’s article on intelligence and the importance to democratic process of the separation of powers is a useful thought piece.

      • Colonial Viper 8.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 10:04 am

        I think the obvious needs to be verbalised here – why would any politician want big money to be taken out of Wellington politics? That’s not in their interests. It’s like politicians wanting to reduce house prices when they own a million dollar property portfolio themselves (or their family trust does).

        The bottom line of course is that they have to be made to do these things, they’re not going to voluntarily take truly effective steps to do them.

        • Scott 8.2.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 9:52 pm

          Surely you can forsake one for the other. Like say I will publicly fund parties to a max of $1m and ban donations, and then feather your own nest when you are in power by providing interest free loans for overseas investors.
          Key would do that if he knew he had to to regain power.

      • Bill 8.2.2
        6 May 2014 at 10:09 am

        Can’t escape the sense that all the reforms and supposed checks and balances can amount to nothing beyond adding an extra bolt to a broken piece of machinery.

        I’m strongly reminded of Thomas Khun’s ‘The Copernican Revolution’ – a historical account of how extra layers of complexity were added to a broken view of the universe in a vain attempt to make it work.

        A pdf of the book is here for anyone with the time for an insightful read. http://www.oglethorpe.edu/faculty/~m_rulison/CoreIV/Kuhn,%20Thomas%20S%20-%20The%20copernican%20revolution.pdf

        • Ennui 8.2.2.1
          6 May 2014 at 11:47 am

          Excellent link Bill, thank you.

          For the record no amount of systems etc can be systematized or codify “trust”. Its emotional and “soft”. Once its gone it is bloody hard to get back.

          I would suggest that the Minister of Justice has to be trusted and beyond reproach. Judith no longer meets scratch. A government that condones a lack of “trust” in one of the highest of public offices cannot be trusted. Legitimacy and trust are closely associated, almost synonymous. The smell of corruption is beginning to appear endemic.

          • Ad 8.2.2.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 5:36 pm

            Very very hard to get transformational change without highly activist bureaucrats. Whichever side is in power.

        • Tracey 8.2.2.2
          6 May 2014 at 1:40 pm

          i dont think thats all compulsory is it ennui?almost as though tax lawyers were involved in the “solution”.

      • RedBaronCV 8.2.3
        6 May 2014 at 9:01 pm

        Encouraging people to give a dollar or two but not more than 5 to a party of their choice would help to make big $ irrelevant. For those smaller people who can have a small vote with their wallet this might be the way to go.

    • Marius 8.3
      6 May 2014 at 3:13 pm

      Great question, Bill. It is a question that I don’t have an answer to. Mostly when I watch this parliamentary question and answer bullshit I want to sharpen the guillotine and remove the rust of years from that monkey wrench handle. How exactly that heaving mattress of maggots slinging friendly insults (and they are all friends let’s not have any doubt about that) and prearranged questions and answers at each other for hours on end benefits anybody in this country is beyond me. It is revolting to watch them be paid for it. It is insulting and disgusting that it goes on year after year, decade after decade and all that really ever changes are the hairdo’s and expensive outfits they arrive under. Unfortunately that’s the way it is for now and the future until the general public take back the soap and tell these parasites to bend over and that the ride for them really is over.

    • geoff 8.4
      6 May 2014 at 8:21 pm

      direct democracy.

      referendums.

      maximum transparency for all public processes.

      And all the arguments like ‘we’d have the death penalty in 6 months if we had direct democracy’ are a load of shite in my opinion.

  9. ianmac 9
    6 May 2014 at 9:55 am

    “A New Zealand First MP wrote to a senior police boss to voice “significant issues” about the possible transfer of a local sergeant who was also on the same school board of trustee as her…… “(She wrote lauding the contribution the sergeant made to the community and and hoping that he could stay longer.)
    …”.The letters were released under the Official Information Act following claims that politicians were often in contact with police.” (I think the Herald is trying to justify the action of Williamson. But of course Tracey Martin is just an MP not a Minister.)
    What will the find next?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11250250

      • ianmac 9.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 10:54 am

        Thanks karol. Suppose it is one of expected spins from Mr Slater who is great mates with Judith Collins and the PM. No dots to connect I suppose?

      • ghostwhowalksnz 9.1.2
        6 May 2014 at 12:33 pm

        Amazing OIA turnaround, only days. Likely this is being orchestrated from Collins office with Slater as a front. As well they wont be releasing to the media any contacts from national MPs to the police.
        Not that these minor things matter anyway, local MPs should be in contact with police management about local policing and community policing issues and even on behalf of victims of crime.
        The big no no is contacting police on behalf of offenders

        • Tracey 9.1.2.1
          6 May 2014 at 1:43 pm

          will mr slater release a full uneditted copy of his oia requests, and the dates thereof.

          can we oia slaters oia requests?

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.2
          6 May 2014 at 3:36 pm

          The big no no is contacting police on behalf of offenders

          I would expect local MPs to perform advocacy on behalf of prisoners if those prisoners have been unfairly treated by Police, Corrections or Justice and cannot get answers otherwise.

    • toad 9.2
      6 May 2014 at 11:19 am

      And Martin was attempting to influence a Police administrative decision, not a decision re whether or not a domestic violence prosecution goes ahead.

  10. Tracey 10
    6 May 2014 at 9:58 am

    are labour being set up for if ghey arent deemed to land any blows… or is key hoping collins will melt down. I just cant see it being the later with her kmowing questions in advance.

    • karol 10.1
      6 May 2014 at 10:04 am

      Yep – the MSM are over-hyping Labour going for the killer blow.

      I do think Key is taking a gamble – in order to put a buffer between him and opposition attacks. He has allowed Collins a break after the Wednesday Question Time – the PM doesn’t do Thursday Question Time.

      Either she melts down and the heat is very much focused on her – she’s gone and he can get on with the budget etc. Or her presence gives him some cover and she manages to hold the line.

      • Tracey 10.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 1:45 pm

        i wonder how much the crosby textor bill will be this last couple of weeks. and who pays it.

  11. Jackal 11
    6 May 2014 at 10:08 am

    I think you might mean Collins’ faction there MICKYSAVAGE, not ‘fashion’. Collins’ fashion isn’t something we should discuss in polite society.

  12. Colonial Viper 12
    6 May 2014 at 10:14 am

    This article on Truthdig by Sirota has messages which puts the Collins drama into perspective.

    In the NZ context, regardless of how much political damage it is doing to National via the MSM and daily drip feed of scandal (which erodes trust in ALL politicians and the political system as a whole), it does zip to change the causes and public awareness of the daily grind and misery facing many New Zealanders today.

    This display of arrogance and self-absorption from Colorado’s political class is but a microcosmic example. Indeed, no matter where you are reading this column, there are examples of real-life catastrophes with real-life ramifications being treated by political elites as just more “grenades” in their self-serving political wars.

    In those wars, social emergencies are treated as partisan battlefields, and politicians are the field generals using human beings as cannon fodder. Worst of all, life-and-death crises are now viewed exclusively as political weapons rather than as pressing problems that need to be solved.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/were_all_just_grenades_in_the_partisan_wars_20140502

  13. Puckish Rogue 13
    6 May 2014 at 10:19 am

    Just a beltway issue, all that the voters (the ones that don’t take much notice of politics) will remember is the left savagely attacking a women so its all good

    • lprent 13.1
      6 May 2014 at 10:28 am

      Reminds me of 2005-2008 with the attacks against Helen.

      At least this one has a basis in it unlike the misogynist dickheads at Whaleoil and the Sewer and the other right wing pricks blogsites who were simply upset about being governed by women.

      Are you really as much of a politically ignorant fuddy-duddy fool as to think anyone is going to believe that line about Collins? It is a line that may have worked back in the 1960s.

      Incidentally I suspect that you were one of the misogynist dickheads based on this condescendingly stupid comment. It sounds like something that one of the arseholes of 2008 would have uttered.

      • Puckish Rogue 13.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:21 pm

        Naah I don’t think I was on here in 2008 but I think its a beltway issue or rather theres so much information it’s now like a tl;dr thing for voters but we’ll see at the next round of polls I guess

        “Incidentally I suspect that you were one of the misogynist dickheads based on this condescendingly stupid comment. It sounds like something that one of the arseholes of 2008 would have uttered.”

        Chill out and relax guy, its not worth stressing about its only politics 🙂

        • framu 13.1.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 12:43 pm

          your evading the substance of the replies to you again – stop pulling a single comment out in order to split hairs, – address the reply

          and whos stressed out? – no one seems that worked up, unless pointing out the repetitive and poorly formed nature of your views is somehow getting stressed. Theres those assumptions again.

          Or is it really that you cant back up what your saying or even argue your corner?

          • Tracey 13.1.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 1:50 pm

            slyland used to say he didnt get emotional about politics and so doesnt name call.

            slater needs a better class of acolyte.

        • lprent 13.1.1.2
          6 May 2014 at 8:40 pm

          …it’s now like a tl;dr thing for voters but we’ll see at the next round of polls I guess…

          Likely to be an effect. You know that there is an effect when apolitical centre-right people start telling me the jokes about cabinet ministers.

          • Clemgeopin 13.1.1.2.1
            6 May 2014 at 11:45 pm

            Like this?

            A corrupt Chinese border control custom official would write “NOT APPROVED” on all the papers that were submitted to him by overseas milk exporters, but curiously, he had the habit of always leaving a small space between NOT and APPROVED. However, as soon as the official was greased with a huge wad of cash during an expensive dinner graced by overseas , he would just add an “E :” after NOT.
            “NOTE: APPROVED”.

            • Clemgeopin 13.1.1.2.1.1
              7 May 2014 at 12:33 am

              [Opps, last line]
              ..expensive dinner graced by overseas VIPs,

    • fender 13.2
      6 May 2014 at 10:37 am

      🙄

      Yeah OK Puckish, woman MP’s should be allowed to get away with corruption because anyone objecting is just a sexist arse 🙄

    • karol 13.3
      6 May 2014 at 10:41 am

      Some of us will just remember how the male-dominated National caucus let another woman minister take all the heat, while the guys ducked and dived in the shadows.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3.1
        6 May 2014 at 10:44 am

        John was seriously rattled when his expensive titanium dagger snapped on Judith’s back.

      • Tracey 13.3.2
        6 May 2014 at 1:52 pm

        ate wilkinson took the fall for brownlee.

    • Paul 13.4
      6 May 2014 at 11:03 am

      See you guys are all back today.
      Or is it just one person?
      Anyway you’ve been fed your lines…..

      • Puckish Rogue 13.4.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:26 pm

        Well d’oh, I mean when you takes the money you have to do the bidding

      • Tracey 13.4.2
        6 May 2014 at 1:55 pm

        its taken a few days to come up with something slater thinks is credible for them all to think.

        its nz first did it too, and its just politics, dont take it so seriously.

        its not like collins signed a painting for charity… THAT would be heinous. she did this for herself, thats the right wing way!

    • framu 13.5
      6 May 2014 at 12:21 pm

      you keep saying this – in fact its all youve said. And lo – the issue does not die

      and you keep presuming you know what everyone thinks

      are all the records in your house this broken?

      • Puckish Rogue 13.5.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:29 pm

        Could turn that around and suggest its you lefties presuming as well but we won’t really know until the next eletion and how boring would that be…

        • framu 13.5.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 12:39 pm

          your the one claiming you know what everyone thinks – i dont see much of that sort of claim from anyone else.

          and you keep saying it over and over and over and over again

          so… youve made a claim that no-one cares and a claim that you know what everyone thinks – and then you come back with “we won’t really know until the next eletion ” ?!

          Either your sure or your not. You cant have it both ways. Which one is it?

          • fender 13.5.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 12:53 pm

            I think you may be wasting your time with this Puckish character, he epitomises the poor intellect of the typical Collins supporter/fan boy.

            • framu 13.5.1.1.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 1:10 pm

              oh i know – but sometimes its worth the couple of comments required in order to highlight the holes in some logic

    • Tracey 13.6
      6 May 2014 at 1:47 pm

      omg that is very funny. is this the best slater can come up with?

  14. karol 14
    6 May 2014 at 10:58 am

    As usual, a very good analysis by Gordon Campbell on, too big to fail Collins:

    Running defence for Collins on this issue is doing Key’s own credibility no good whatsoever. At times yesterday, he looked less like the PM, and more like Lyndsay Lohan’s press agent defending her latest DUI, en route to rehab. There is now a gap opening up between what the PM feels happy with concerning Collins’ Oravida activities and explanations, and the paper trail of evidence that is gradually accumulating. Rob Salmond’s Polity blog – which has rapidly become a ‘must read’ outlet – has pinpointed a damningly relevant document from last Friday’s OIA document drop.

  15. Clemgeopin 15
    6 May 2014 at 11:06 am

    Key’s bizaar defense of Collins this morning. See the link below. I got the distinct feeling that Key was lying away like mad!
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Documents-back-Collins-version-of-events—Key/tabid/1607/articleID/342920/Default.aspx#disqus_thread

    • karol 15.1
      6 May 2014 at 11:10 am

      LOL Crusher has let some nasty twitter tr0lls get under her skin?

    • ianmac 15.2
      6 May 2014 at 11:31 am

      Actually lying or not, Key’s defence this morning outlines the strategy they will use later today. No matter what the Opposition ask Key/Collins, they will just tough it out with the mantra outlined by Key in that clip..

      • freedom 15.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 11:45 am

        Which is jaw-droppingly astounding when you consider the OIA documents clearly present hard evidence that the actions of the Minister are in open conflict with Cabinet Rule 2.62

        but life in Bizzaro World is what it isn’t, 😎

    • One Anonymous Bloke 15.3
      6 May 2014 at 1:21 pm

      I note Key refers to Collins as “strong”. That’s right Johnny boy, and don’t you forget it.

      • Tracey 15.3.1
        6 May 2014 at 1:58 pm

        you have been very hot these last coupla days oab, you gonna spontaneously combust?

        id back a tax lawyer over a currency trader in a get down, get dirty fight too.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 15.3.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 2:02 pm

          Judith Collins brings out my sense of theatre. Comedy, tragedy, it’s all there 😀

  16. captain hook 16
    6 May 2014 at 11:14 am

    National is becoming shizophrenic. Collins went to China to lecture them on transparency in government and this is the result. What a fraud.

  17. ianmac 17
    6 May 2014 at 11:18 am

    Actually Judith has just had about three weeks rest and she still blew up so wonder what another few days will mean?

    And I do not think there will be any “killer blows” after going for the “jugular” today. More likely a slow erosion with maybe a complaint to the Privileges Committee at the end of Question Time on Wednesday.

    (A funny little comment from a listener on Morning report wondered if John Key was involved in the planning of Collin’s trip to Orivida and just has to support her now. Yeah? ah Na! Ridiculous.)

    • karol 17.1
      6 May 2014 at 11:23 am

      Dim Post pretty much lays out how it will unfold in the House today:

      I doubt Collins is going to get ‘crushed’ in Question Time. She’ll say that she’s been cleared by the Cabinet Office. Robertson and Peters will insist that she’s mislead the House. The Speaker will tell them off for asking ‘political questions’ (If you’ve never watched Parliament’s Question Time with David Carter as Speaker you might think I’m joking there, but no) and threaten to remove them from the chamber. Onto the next question.

      • Tracey 17.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 2:00 pm

        the documents confirm what i have said all along, it was a private dinner.

        please can everyone in opposition hold up photos of key playing golf with shie…

      • Tracey 17.1.2
        6 May 2014 at 2:02 pm

        if there were a god, he would just have struck carter down, and most of the house during that prayer.

      • Tracey 17.1.3
        6 May 2014 at 2:08 pm

        bridges is yawning already… mind you double dipping is speaking… about average wages.

        • karol 17.1.3.1
          6 May 2014 at 2:16 pm

          I think the Nats were trying for a filibuster of Question Time – he went majorly into attacking the opposition, with lots of patsy Nat supplementaries. Parker and Norman hit back.

  18. Clemgeopin 18
    6 May 2014 at 11:18 am

    I wasn’t aware of the rape comment before. I just read it and can’t believe how bad that is coming from a ‘justice’ minister! That remark alone should be enough reason to sack her. (Similarly her naming and shaming of Katie Bradford was unforgivable too, coming from a cabinet minister!)

    Her rape remark is here:
    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/collins-get-midieval/

  19. Tanz 19
    6 May 2014 at 11:19 am

    Why should David Bain have any rights? Many people believe the second jury got it wrong. You are defending a man who most likely murdered his whole family. You really think Bain should get a payout?? And why the gloating over Collins. Leave her be.

    • ianmac 19.1
      6 May 2014 at 11:33 am

      Are you serious Tanz? Irony?

    • framu 19.2
      6 May 2014 at 12:24 pm

      “most likely”

      so you would deny someone any and all rights, even when theyve been found not guilty based simply on “most likely” ?!

      and why should we leave a corrupt MP alone? – remember were paying for it so weve got every right to persue it

      your moral compass is way off with that comment – i seriously suggest you go an think through the implications of what your saying here – its really bad

      • fender 19.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:57 pm

        Like the moon landings Tanz probably denies Collins even went to China.

        • Tanz 19.2.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 3:37 pm

          don’t agree. The second trial was a media driven circus. Look at the huge amount of evidence against him, and poor Robin Bain dragged through the mud, no one to defend him.
          The jury never said innocent, just not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. He should not get money, and nor should Joe Karam. Why is there no respect for the first verdict??

          • Tracey 19.2.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 5:55 pm

            cos it was wrongly obtained?

            cos it wasnt strong enough to withstand challenge and scrutiny?

            cos what you and i “think” isnt a substitute for hearing and seeing all the evidence and witnessing and understanding the law?

            god forbid you ever find yourself innocent in front of a jury containing people like you?

    • Tracey 19.3
      6 May 2014 at 12:36 pm

      you think he is guilty so he should have his rights removed? can you give us a list of everyone you think is guilty of something criminal so we can remove their rights.

  20. karol 20
    6 May 2014 at 11:38 am

    And, Question Time questions are up.

    Norman (general question) and Cunliffe (on Collins’ ministerial performance) questions to PM. Peters and Robertson to the Minister of Justice on Oravida. Logie to Minister of Justice on domestic violence. Jacinda Ardern to police minister on Williamson’s actions that led to his resignation.

  21. freedom 21
    6 May 2014 at 11:39 am

    If anyone from the opposition parties are out and about gathering opinion from the boards today …

    I would like to mention how today’s Question Time is an ideal opportunity to prove you can work together for the good of the country.

    This is not a day to see which Party can get the biggest hit.

    Let’s just get the truth instead!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1
      6 May 2014 at 12:35 pm

      A slow boil.

      • freedom 21.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 12:48 pm

        being on a land line again, I get to watch PTV again …. not sure that is a good thing 😕
        as there are a few fragile items in the studio right now and high velocity projectiles have been known to appear during past broadcasts 🙂

  22. phillip ure 22
    6 May 2014 at 12:01 pm

    collins to stop tweeting..

    ..key sez that ‘cyber-bullies’ have caused judiths’ ‘stress’..

    ..(this is now getting farcial..)

    ..should we say:..’toughen up..sweetie..!’

    • fender 22.1
      6 May 2014 at 12:34 pm

      How ridiculous, it’s all twitters fault she’s in hot water for corruption. 🙄

      From Stuff

      “Prime Minister John Key says he backs her decision because it’s full of “tr*lls and bottom-feeders”. ”

      Well there will now be one less tr*ll and bottom feeder now that she’s quit twitter.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 22.2
      6 May 2014 at 12:36 pm

      Dont forget Collins bullying Turei over the clothes she wears.

      National is desperate now, any means of diversion…. distraction

    • Weepu's beard 22.3
      6 May 2014 at 12:54 pm

      It seriously embarrassing for a senior minister to admit to a Twitter addiction. Paints a clear picture of the state of the woman. #NotReallyFitForParliament

    • georgecom 22.4
      6 May 2014 at 10:19 pm

      sensitive wee little sausage, isn’t she

  23. appleboy 23
    6 May 2014 at 12:46 pm

    Oh my god. So it was all because of Twitter. Not because of the lies she has been caught out on …not the arrogant sense of entitlement…it was Twitter. Blindingly clear evidence taht Key really thinks the public are stupid.

    I see a T Shirt – Judith Collins face , below ‘Twitter made me Do It”.

    P.S If you photoshopped Collins hairstyle onto Paul Henry’s face – you’s hardly tell the difference.

  24. Roy 24
    6 May 2014 at 12:58 pm

    ‘Her claims that her dinner with Oravida directors and an unnamed Chinese Public Servant who worked in border control was a private one where business was not discussed seems less and less likely with every new disclosure. ‘

    From what I know of Chinese culture, whether or not business was discussed is irrelevant anyway. Taking officials out to dinner is an important gesture in guanxi, which can be politely translated as ‘networking’ or ‘maintaining connections’ but which also incorporates corruption and the Old Mates Act.

    • grumpy 24.1
      6 May 2014 at 1:11 pm

      Roy, I agree with you. In China one cannot seperate the two. At least we have one Minister who understands the Chinese way of doing business.

      • Draco T Bastard 24.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 1:27 pm

        Just a pity that she doesn’t understand how we do things.

        • grumpy 24.1.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 2:52 pm

          If it was in NZ, you may have a point – may……but in China you do things the Chinese way and you have little say in how it is done.

          • Colonial Viper 24.1.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 3:09 pm

            Oh dear, the Chinese FORCED Collins to compromise her integrity as a Crown Minister, just so that she could help her family make more MONEY, there just was NO alternative if you wanted to pocket the cash!

            Yeah. That is a very Chinese way of organising priorities, grumpy, I’m glad you appreciate just how this stuff works.

            By the way getting found out and then being blasted on to the front page of the national dailies is a very bad look, it causes a major loss of face for any business associates who have connections with you, and perhaps Collins should learn that is NOT the ‘Chinese way of doing business’ LOL

            • grumpy 24.1.1.1.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 3:16 pm

              Just how did “….her family make more MONEY…”??

              Having a Chinese husband makes her a top shelf ambassador for NZ Inc.

              • Roy …
                6 May 2014 at 10:30 pm

                She was acting as an ambassador for Collins and Spouse, not NZ Inc. That’s the point.

          • Tracey 24.1.1.1.2
            6 May 2014 at 3:10 pm

            williamson was in nz when he tried to do it the chinese way… and all indications are collins may have prompted him (not proven).

      • Tracey 24.1.2
        6 May 2014 at 3:08 pm

        a minister of justice… they also execute business owners who make mistakes that shame the govt, are you advocating for that too, and the system of bribery which leads to buildings collapsing etc?

        • Murray Olsen 24.1.2.1
          6 May 2014 at 9:50 pm

          We can offer a collapsing coal mine. I suspect we’re well down that road.

      • Roy 24.1.3
        6 May 2014 at 4:24 pm

        But this isn’t China, grumpy, and we have different expectations. Feathering your own and your husband’s nest while on an official, taxpayer-funded trip isn’t the New Zealand way. Or it isn’t supposed to be.

  25. grumpy 25
    6 May 2014 at 12:59 pm

    What is a cabinet minister for if not to promote New Zealands interests and commerce?

    • Paul 25.1
      6 May 2014 at 1:00 pm

      NZ’s
      Or her own??
      Neoliberals… grumpy and gormless.

      • grumpy 25.1.1
        6 May 2014 at 1:09 pm

        As far as I know, neither her husband or her are employed by Oravida. Her husband only has a governance role as a director for which he will get a fee for attending meetings.
        At a time when exports were being blocked due to one of the biggest corporate balls ups we have ever seen, it’s good to think that someone may have been going into bat for the economy.

        • Hayden 25.1.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 1:19 pm

          Can you explain how the difference between paid employee and paid director is relevant to the question of pecuniary gain?

          • grumpy 25.1.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 1:25 pm

            Looks like another urgent job for Crusher
            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11250373

            Hayden, a director does not usually make anything from increased sales/profits, they just get a fee for attending meetings.

            • Hayden 25.1.1.1.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 1:27 pm

              And who sets that fee?

              • grumpy …
                6 May 2014 at 2:47 pm

                The shareholders.

                • Hayden …
                  6 May 2014 at 2:53 pm

                  Which is this case is a single person, who may feel a little more generous when the reviews come around if that director has gone a little above-and-beyond with regards to the company’s fortunes.

                  I don’t know who you expect to trick into believing that David Wong-Tung’s remuneration, or even his continued director-ship, for that matter, cannot be related to or affected by Collins’ actions.

            • Tracey 25.1.1.1.1.2
              6 May 2014 at 3:12 pm

              how does collins husband earn a living?

        • appleboy 25.1.1.2
          6 May 2014 at 1:50 pm

          “What is a cabinet minister for if not to promote New Zealands interests and commerce?”

          Well Collins wasn’t promoting New Zealand’s interests was she? The meeting brief was, we now know, was to promote “A New Zealand company’s profile. Said company being one her Husband is involved with, and who makes seriously large donations to National. What part of corruption don’t you get – one eyed Nat nutter.

          • grumpy 25.1.1.2.1
            6 May 2014 at 2:50 pm

            I think you are confused. Your arguments are contradicting each other. If it was to “raise profile”, then the attendance of a border official is irrelevent. Her husband’s involvement is only that of a Director.
            No corruption, just, as the meeting brief states, raising profile. Just doing business the Chinese way – for the good of the country.

            • Colonial Viper 25.1.1.2.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 2:58 pm

              Just doing business the Chinese way – for the good of the country.

              Firstly, the good of the 1% usually ends up being bad for most of the country. Collins and her corporate director husband working in their own best interests falls smack bang into that category.

              Secondly, most Communist Party central committee members are very wealthy – with quite a number of billionaires.

              For instance Bloomberg reported in 2012 that the 70 richest members of the National Peoples’ Congress had a net value of US$90B.

              I guess you are saying that Collin’s finally found a set of political priorities she could get onboard with.

              This officials’ wealth results from special business networks, family connections, and use of official position for personal business purposes.

              To be crystal, this culture of endemic corruption is what you mean by ‘doing business the Chinese way’ and it is what has screwed Collins.

              Why would you be OK with that.

            • Hayden 25.1.1.2.1.2
              6 May 2014 at 3:01 pm

              Try to keep up now, the “cup of tea” “on the way to the airport” has now been shown to be a well-planned (down to Judith’s rider, FFS) tour and meeting, the stated purpose of which (from Friday’s MFAT OIA release) was to raise Oravida’s profile.

              The border official was at the prior dinner, which is a separate incident, but since you bring it up, the same OIA release makes it look a whole lot less friendly than previously claimed.

            • Roy 25.1.1.2.1.3
              6 May 2014 at 4:26 pm

              Not for the good of the country, just to feather her husband’s nest.

            • freedom 25.1.1.2.1.4
              6 May 2014 at 4:36 pm

              grumpy

              2.62 Cabinet Rules
              A conflict may arise if people close to a Minister, such as a Minister’s family, whānau, or close associates, might derive, or be perceived as deriving, some personal, financial, or other benefit from a decision or action by the Minister or the government.

              • Tracey …
                6 May 2014 at 4:40 pm

                collins husband is listed as a director of all five oravida companies registered at the nz companies office. now grumpy, remember the chines way you talked about? would david be doing it all for free? director remuneration, direct and indirect bears direct corrolation to success of the company.

                • freedom …
                  6 May 2014 at 5:04 pm

                  Which is why I cannot believe the Cabinet Office say it’s all hunky dory!
                  Some good honest people work at Parliament. It simply doesn’t add up.
                  Why is the opposition not pushing for publication of the Cabinet Office decisions?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 25.2
      6 May 2014 at 1:02 pm

      Oravida ≠ New Zealand.

      • grumpy 25.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 1:17 pm

        Not yet anyway……..give it time…………………

        • fender 25.2.1.1
          6 May 2014 at 1:33 pm

          Yeah Fonterra are ecstatic 🙄

          • Colonial Viper 25.2.1.1.1
            6 May 2014 at 3:04 pm

            Why am I not surprised that Grumpy is advocating a corporate coup d’etat of NZ, like has been done in the USA.

            • grumpy 25.2.1.1.1.1
              6 May 2014 at 3:26 pm

              Jeez CV, lighten up – you’ve gone all grouchy lately……..

        • One Anonymous Bloke 25.2.1.2
          6 May 2014 at 6:04 pm

          That’s a nice dog whistle. Did you polish it yourself?

    • framu 25.3
      6 May 2014 at 2:26 pm

      shes the justice minister for starters – your thinking of the trade minister

      im amazed that so many of the usual suspects all of a sudden have no standards or responsibility when such notions are the slogans they like to clothe themselves in

  27. fender 27
    6 May 2014 at 3:00 pm

    There doesn’t appear to be anything out of the ordinary (for her) wrong with Collins judging by her appearance and performance in the debating chamber today. Can’t see why she should be granted leave just because she’s uncomfortable answering questions relating to her corrupt behaviour with the Oravida company.

  28. ianmac 28
    6 May 2014 at 4:35 pm

    Judith Collins seemed subdued today and rather pale. Tranquilisers? And John Key looked rather pale as well. Not his cheeky little boy self. Don’t tell me that they perceive a fall off of support?

  29. Bearded Git 29
    6 May 2014 at 5:25 pm

    On Checkpoint just after 5 they played a clip from today where Key said “it is clear from the emails that this was a private meeting all along…”

    Brent Edwards then came on and said (I might be paraphrasing) “But that’s not what the emails say….” directly contradicting the Key version/lies. Worth a listen.

    • ianmac 29.1
      6 May 2014 at 5:56 pm

      Yes heard that Bearded one. And Brent Edwards is the most stable unexciteable commentator. If he finds it incredible that John Key can call black a sort of white colour, then times are achanging.

  30. Clemgeopin 30
    6 May 2014 at 8:16 pm

    A very good speech by Mr Cunliffe about the rot that has set into this discredited National government.

    Here is the link if you would like to watch:
    http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/32665

    • Clemgeopin 30.1
      6 May 2014 at 8:55 pm

      Another good speech by Grant Robertson regarding the Government that works for their donors and the wealthy few in this country.
      Link:
      http://www.inthehouse.co.nz/video/32671

    • Scott 30.2
      6 May 2014 at 10:46 pm

      I don’t normally watch parliament tv, but I was truly impressed with Robertson and Cunliffe, but mostly by Adern. There message was loud and clear and lucid.
      English was just shocking, as was Smith, and Brownlee plain embarassing as always.
      Can anyone tell me why Collins and Key weren’t there?

      • Clemgeopin 30.2.1
        6 May 2014 at 11:56 pm

        They had gone to commence an intense five months course of truth serum therapy administered by one Dr J. Banks.

  31. georgecom 31
    6 May 2014 at 10:22 pm

    I went to the Nat Party website today. I clicked on the donate button and it took me to a webpage with a shopping trolley. In return for a sizeable donation I could purchase various items including; change to legislation, citizenship, purchasing NZ property, intervention with the police and business access to foreign markets.

  32. paulscott 32
    7 May 2014 at 5:37 pm

    In my opinion the Collins Oravida is the worst thing ever to hit this National Govt. She should have been gone by lunch time. It is a continguing danger and I ask myself why Key sacked Williamson when this misuse of the a Ministerial public position is much worse.
    I know no Nat people who want her, she will be remembered for the sheer stupidity of the crushing cars idea.
    There is something violent about her

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