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Drunken Seaman John Key: borrowed $40 billion in 3 years to spend on his mates

Written By: - Date published: 8:45 am, November 3rd, 2011 - 222 comments
Categories: accountability, campaigning, debt / deficit, economy, election 2011, john key, leadership, national - Tags: , ,

You show me the money John boy. You’ve racked up record levels of debt, created record levels of unemployment, and earned us a double credit downgrade.

What have you got to show for burdening the next three generations of New Zealanders with debt?

hattip William Joyce

222 comments on “Drunken Seaman John Key: borrowed $40 billion in 3 years to spend on his mates”

  1. Tribeless 1

    Completely agree the government shouldn’t be borrowing. But regarding who it is borrowing for, remind me again who pays the taxes that have to fund 100% of public debt and the welfare state?

    And have you heard of the global financial crisis (of crony capitalism) and Big States over-reaching themselves?

    • who pays the taxes that have to fund 100% of public debt and the welfare state?

      certainly not those who’ve benefited the most from Key’s tax cuts

      • Tribeless 1.1.1

        And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much?

        Again, do we at least accept on this blog that 100% of government is ultimately funded by the tax payer?

        And then once you get there, you must be uncomfortable with these facts:

        1) 44% of households take more from the tax system than they put into it.

        2) 10% of households fund 71% of taxation.

        3) 17% of households fund 97% of taxation.

        4) 23% of all babies born in 2010 were in a family (including single parent) reliant on a direct benefit by the end of the first year of life. (That’s a quarter of new born babies in families living entirely on welfare – and that doesn’t include the ‘soft’ redistribution of Working for Families, etc, just the hard benefits, DPB, Sickness …)

        Hardly seems fair to businesses does it. A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.

        • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1

          Are these numbers from Farrar’s completely flawed and debunked magical cumulative taxation chart that somehow have only the top income earners paying net tax?

          • felix 1.1.1.1.1

            Yes.

              • Tribeless

                Direct from Bill English via Hansard:

                Quote:

                Michael Woodhouse: Which groups now pay most of the tax collected by the Government?

                Hon BILL ENGLISH: Our tax and transfer system is highly redistributive, and the number of people paying income tax is surprisingly small. The lowest-income 43 percent of households currently receive more in income support than they pay in income tax. The 1.3 million households with incomes under $110,000 a year collectively pay no net tax—that is, their total income support payments match their combined income tax. The top 10 percent of households contribute over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers—over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers. This system is highly redistributive and we believe it is fair.

                • Bunji

                  Bill’s a wizz with statistics! It’s just a shame about reality.

                  The top 10 percent pay 70 percent of income tax IF those households on less than $110k don’t “pay tax” they just transfer their money to those on the dole, DPB, WFF etc. So we can all be grateful to the wealthy for paying for our schools and hospitals, while those on middle incomes can feel resentful about how all their money is frittered away on useless bludgers.

                  At least that’s the angle Bill’s going for. It’s a shame that reality doesn’t divide tax up like that for him and we all put into one big pot to pay for all the necessities of a civilised society. Quite a number of us on less than $110k do in fact “pay tax”.

                  If Bill spent a bit less time on statistics and a bit more time on the economy, it might not be such a mess.

                • Hayden

                  LOLWUT?

                  I earn around 100,000 p.a., pay roughly 30,000 p.a. in income tax, and receive no income support, (two adults with two children), so I’m quite surprised to find that in fact I pay no income tax at all. Or am I reading that wrong?

                • KJT

                  Income tax.

                  Add up the other taxes. Like power company dividends to Government, Petrol taxes, GST etc etc etc. Most are strongly regressive in their effect.

                  Which is why BS artists like Farrar and English only count income tax.

        • pollywog 1.1.1.2

          A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.

          WORD…FUCK CORPORATE GREED !!!

          CRASH THE BANKS

        • felix 1.1.1.3

          “And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much? “

          For several decades labour productivity has been rising while real wages have remained static or gone backwards. This is a worldwide trend since the dawn of neoliberalism and NZ is no exception. http://thecurrentmoment.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/productivity-inequality-poverty/

          If you were genuinely concerned about the the WFF subsidy to employers and about widening the tax base you’d be arguing for higher wages.

        • framu 1.1.1.4

          “Again, do we at least accept on this blog that 100% of government is ultimately funded by the tax payer?”

          what about the dividends returned from our most profitable publicly held assets?

        • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.5

          Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s Superman to the rescue! 
           
          Any explanation for the complete failure of 30 years of Randian economics to deliver results for the majority, Tribeless? Nah, didn’t think so. Let me help you out. Neo-liberalism is the tiny minority exploiting the vast majority under the false flag of freedom. It’s history, pal, the world has moved on from greed is good, apart from small outbreaks of circle jerking in our universities and the sadder cafes in Parnell.

          • Tribeless 1.1.1.5.1

            Crony capitalism is to capitalism (laissez faire) as sea horses are to horses.

            So, where’s the Randian economics? Since the 1930’s Keynesian socialism has ruled, and the chickens are now coming home to roost in West.

            The welfare state was always a cruel illusion.

            • KJT 1.1.1.5.1.1

              History has proved Keynes was correct. It is a pity more notice is not taken.

              Neo-Liberals have to re-write history to debunk him.

              In the meantime the shift towards neo-liberal economics has been a total failure.

              Unless you are the few who get excessive profits from it. I suppose for those people it is a howling success.

              • Tribeless

                Why do the left have so much trouble with reality. The multiplier is less than one: look at the US and Europe. What caused the asset bubbles that burst in 2008? Keynesian economics.

                Here’s a good quotation from Cafe Hayek to explain the problem with Keynes:

                http://cafehayek.com/2011/10/drunk-with-keynesian-prejudices.html

                The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, borrowing and lending, and spending it is only resolved by increases in confidence, borrowing and lending, and spending.

                It’s just as if a drunk, waking up severely hung-over, proclaims to his wife

                The central irony of my medical crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence in my ability to hold my drink, and by too much drinking, it can only be resolved with more confidence in my ability to hold my drink, and by more drinking. Bottoms up!

                …..

                I recommend reading a good smattering of the articles in the Mises Bailout reader:

                http://mises.org/daily/3128

                But above all, this question is philosophical: the only economic system consistent with liberty of the individual is laissez faire. Everything else is slavery to the State.

                • KJT

                  More counterfactual crap.

                  Try reading Paul Krugman. An economist who actually has some relationship to what actually happened.

                  Laissez faire just ends up with slavery to the few morally bankrupt individuals that have accumulated all the money capital, by cheating.

                  I would rather we have democratic control of our own destiny.

                  • Tribeless

                    Try reading the comprehensive debunking of just about all Krugman’s output:

                    http://krugman-in-wonderland.blogspot.com/

                  • Tribeless

                    And ‘democratic control of our own destiny’ is an oxymoron, given democracy is a tyranny of the majority.

                    For example, assume there are 10 people in a democracy, 7 white people and 3 black. The democracy holds a plebiscite on the motion that white people shouldn’t have to work, and they are legally entitled to live off the efforts of black people. The motion is won 7 to 3: black people by majority vote in the democracy are now legally enslaved.

                    No liberty to be found here. Liberty can only be found by protecting the smallest of all minorities: the individual, via constitution in a libertarian styled minarchy.

                    • Pardon?

                      How about not reducing ‘democracy’ to a show of hands? Isn’t it ‘rule by the people [demos]‘?

                      Or, if you prefer, “Government by the people, of the people, for the people”.

                      ‘Show of hands’ democracy is simply an individualistic, emaciated rendering of something much more profound. 

                      I suppose if you can only think individualistically then democracy would simply amount to majority rule.

                      Ideally, democracy is more like an organised ‘marketplace’, if you like, where people come together to discuss, debate and decide. It implies a strong faith, ironically enough, in the idea that the best decisions come out of interactions between individuals but at the collective level rather than at the level of the individual (this, in fact, aligns with research on the relative merits of group versus individual decision making).

                      The conflict between laissez faire capitalism and democracy is between the arena within which such free interaction should be prioritised.

                      I think it should be in the political arena, first and foremost; you think it should be in the economic arena, first and foremost.

                    • Tribeless

                      No. It’s not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions. The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                    • NickS

                      /facepalm

                      I heart brainless libertarians that use strawman arguments about modern democracies and show an understanding of human social systems and behaviours that makes ASD people look normal in comparison.

                      Calling modern democracies “teh tyranny of the majority” ignores the fact that none of the groups active in democracies are monolithic, in short even if you have a party with 51% of the vote/seats, some members will break away if the party leadership attempts things individual legislators/whatever find immoral/antidemocratic/illegal etc etc. Then there the judicial branch which can shit-can laws etc on the basis of constitutional, legislative or prior precedence issues. Further more, public protests from minority groups can quite easily sway politicians (depending on the issue + how much noise they make), and the legislature is more than capable of passing laws without public support, say for example making homosexuality/abortion/civil unions legal, particularly on human rights angles in liberal/semi-liberal democracies. In effect, unless it’s a coup situation, it’s very difficult for any form of tyranny of a majority to exist, as there multiple interactions occurring in western democracies. Even in republic systems like the USA, where money is exceedingly useful to drive law changes and so has eroded the democratic system somewhat, fucking over all but a small minority of Americans.

                      As for your example, it’s laughably naive and ignores completely theory of mind, but also the role of resistance and violence (particularly monopolies when dealing with state level actors) amongst other things.

                      Though I shouldn’t expect more from someone who lives in a magical land where reality is perfectly ignorable when it clashes with teh words of a authority figure, much like the old-school stalinists/communists/trotsky-ites.

                    • NickS

                      No. It’s not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions. The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                      PolSci101 fail detected. Please retake 2nd year+ papers on governments and history therein of and philosophies and a side of anthropology history focusing on tribal leaderhship structures.

                    • Ari

                      Your example is incredibly facetious and ignores the fact that there might well be solidarity between white and black people, so that the vote wouldn’t go 3/7 even if you consider democracy to always be majoritarian voting, which most of us here do not.

                    • The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                      I was talking about democracy, not the State. My understanding is that the nation state arose to impose and enforce capitalism (and trade between capitalists) as the dominant economic system. 

                      It’s [i.e., democracy's] not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions.

                      Democracy does imply voluntary transactions (of ideas, arguments, etc.) – it is principally defined as debate and decision making as equals; hence, how can equals enforce involvement in debate and discussion or force someone to ‘transact’ one idea rather than another??
                      I think that what you might not like is that once a collective decision is reached it then would apply to all participants? (e.g., not to overuse a resource by placing some communal ban on its use beyond a certain point).

                      I think, though, that 90% of that concern arises from people’s sense that they did not have an equal voice in a collective decision (i.e., the decision was made by others and then imposed). That is, the sense of a lack of democracy and hence control.

                      The necessity of living as a social animal is a trade-off. It’s messy and sometimes causes problems; but economic individualism isn’t the solution. 

                    • mik e

                      Tribeless you’ve spelt your name wrong clueless.their is no country other than somalia and a few other countries that run laissez fair economies economies that don’t have a decent welfare state and fair tax system have crashed and burned and are in need of huge bail outs.
                      Stop reading propaganda get some well researched economics then come back and have a reel argument
                      Look at a recent study done in collaboration with the BBC
                      It showed that the higher taxed states grew in this recession in the US thats turning into a depression
                      Lower taxed states are in recession and are moving into long term depression
                      this is because they are not investing in infrastructure education R&D health care which keeps people at work
                      Your just a blind faith idiot who has been sucked in by the cult of Neo Liberal propaganda

            • KJT 1.1.1.5.1.2

              From the 30’s to the 70’s we had reasonable mixed economy.

              Rather too much crony capitalism in NZ. But regulated so as not to be too dysfunctional.

              Since the 80’s Neo-liberal greed has ruled. Worldwide it has caused financial failure, misery and starvation.

              History has proved Keynes was correct. It is a pity more notice is not taken.

              Neo-Liberals have to re-write history to debunk him.

              In the meantime the shift towards neo-liberal economics has been a total failure.

              Unless you are the few who get excessive profits from it. I suppose for those people it is a howling success.

              • Tribeless

                Debunking GFC as being due to de-regulation: again, Cafe Hayek:

                http://cafehayek.com/2011/10/horwitz-on-the-financial-crisis-and-recession.html

                Quoting economist (Austrian) letter to editor – note particularly second and third paragraphs:

                Letters to the Editor
                Watertown Times
                260 Washington St.
                Watertown, NY 13601

                To the Editor,

                In his letter of October 23 criticizing George Will’s column on Elizabeth Warren, Mark MacWilliams of Canton repeats a number of fallacies about the recession and financial crisis that should not go unchallenged.

                MacWilliams refers to Congress deregulating the financial industries but offers no specifics. In fact, since 1980, Congress has passed four new sets of regulations for every one deregulatory act, and between 2001 and 2008, there were nine new sets of regulation and not one bit of deregulation. Those recent regulations included the Basel capital requirements, which created powerful incentives for banks to sell off the mortgages they originated and buy them back as mortgage backed securities, which they otherwise would not have done.

                Contrary to MacWilliams, our current mess was not the result of “predatory capitalism,” but the predictable consequence of government intervention and crony corporatism. Nowhere does he mention the Federal Reserve’s role in pushing interest rates so low that banks were being paid to borrow, nor does he have a word to say about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac having privileged access to the Treasury to buy up all of the questionable mortgages that banks originated. He also ignores two decades of Congress’s role in mandating that banks lend to marginal borrowers.

                MacWilliams needs to ask himself why, if this was really capitalism, banks would make loans to people they thought could not pay them back. If corporations are greedy profit-seekers, why would they risk customers not being able to pay unless they believed that those mortgages could be sold off to government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie and Freddie who would, as they did, get bailed out by the government?

                If all the traffic lights in Watertown were stuck on green, we’d hardly blame the drivers for the ensuing accidents. When government distorts the signals and incentives facing producers and consumers, the blame for the resulting disaster should fall on government not the private sector. The crisis and recession are what happens when you put “people before profits.”

                Finally, MacWilliams should learn who does assure that his toaster doesn’t explode by actually looking at it. He’ll find the stamp of not a government agency, but Underwriters Laboratory, a private firm that provides quality assurance for appliance makers and consumers. Unlike the government cartel of financial rating agencies that failed miserably last decade, the privately operated UL has decades of success behind it.

                Sincerely,

                Steven Horwitz

                • KJT

                  Bullshit.

                  Both the Austrians and the Chicago school have been thoroughly de-bunked by reality.

                  The above is just the banks self justification for their venery. Helped by economists, who should know better, but spent too long trying to get the answers that agreed with their hypothesis without noting their experiment had failed.

                  The GFC had very little to do with Freddie May etc. It was caused by unregulated financial double dealers finding ever more original ways to burgle more money from the system.

                  Ultimately the crash will be because they have taken so much from the system that financial earnings far exceed the productive sectors ability to cover them.

                  • Tribeless

                    I’ve linked you to the Mises Bailout reader so forum members can read for themselves the truth behind Keynesian socialism and it’s necessary crony capitalism: the harm it has done and the Statist slavery at it’s heart.

                    Given that ‘bullshit’ is not a good technical argument, link us all to the ‘thorough’ debunking of the Austrian school (not Chicago) and theory of the business cycle?

                    • Rob

                      Its no point in arguing with KJT. KJT has already explained to us manytimes  that he is an expert in marine disaster recovery , specifically in the area of cold viscous bunker oil transfer.  We now have learnt that KJT is in fact also an international expert on economics theory alongside the other self promoted fields of expertise.  There is nothing KJT does not know. 

                    • clandestino

                      How is me not making 100% on my labour after repaying my employer the cost of their capital investments etc. not THEFT, tribeless??? 

                    • Tribeless

                      Clandesto, what are you talking about? Are you saying someone is forcing you to work with your particular employer?

                      Because that’s the analogy with tax: State coercion and initiation of force.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Don’t be so dimwitted, Tribeless. The force came first: we had to create democratic governance to protect ourselves from thieving banksters in the first place.

                    • Tribeless

                      I always worry about people who used the word ‘governance’. I give you, again, copied from above, the problem with democracy:

                      … assume there are 10 people in a democracy, 7 white people and 3 black. The democracy holds a plebiscite on the motion that white people shouldn’t have to work, and they are legally entitled to live off the efforts of black people. The motion is won 7 to 3: black people by majority vote in the democracy are now legally enslaved.

                      I don’t want to be ‘governanced’ like that. I want the classical liberal society where the State is my servant, protecting me from the initiation of force of others, not our social(alist) democracy in which the State is the chief abuser of my rights through the use of force in pursuing a Gulag of Good Intentions.

                      And the banks are part of the crony capitalist system, not laissez faire, for quite different reasons I have as much against them as you do, and they should never have been bailed out with taxpayer money, and in a capitalist system they would not have been.

                      But liberty. It’s all about that. Hundreds of millions of men and women died fighting for it in the 20th century … There’s a great movie called ‘Lives of Others': watch it please.

                    • KJT

                      Where do I start.

                      You sound like someone who has just found a few economic “thinkers” who support you in your greed and misconceptions. like Rand, Mises and Friedman.

                      Note that Rand was such a believer in her own bullshit, that she lived off socialist benefits and healthcare for the last third of her life.

                      Try Frier, Keynes, Adam Smith, Schumpeter, for starters. Then get back to me for some more reading.

                    • Tribeless

                      No, KJG, that’s just ad hominem again. Try arguing based on economic facts drawn from the real world.

                    • KJT

                      Been doing that for a while now.

                      http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/

                  • KJT

                    Rob.

                    Pleased to have my brilliance recognised at last.

                    Though my comments on the Rena were from, a large group ,of us currently employed on the NZ coast. Some, because of their employment did not want to make them publicly. So I cannot really claim the credit alone.

            • Galeandra 1.1.1.5.1.3

              Yeah, I hate socialism,too. Welfare-ism sucks.
              Bailing out spendthrift bankers and tax-supporting the third-world style wagebills of tightfisted petit bourgeois capitalists who have no moral or social concern for anyone else.

        • dave brown 1.1.1.6

          “Hardly seems fair to businesses does it. A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.”

          The system is based on theft but not in the way you think. The systematic theft occurs when capital expropriates surplus value produced by the working class and renames this theft as its ‘profits’. Redistributing some of those profits back to pay for the ‘social wage’ (i.e. state provision of costs of living not met by the market wage) is hardly theft. Its actually a form of re-expropriation of value back to those who produced it in the first place.
          Of the course the right wing will never admit to such systematic theft because that would wipe out any legitimacy claimed by the system instantly.
          Fortunately the system is breaking down under the sheer weight of stockpiled wealth that is not invested productively while the living standards of the creators of wealth plummet. Its called capitalism in crisis. Solution? Revolution.

          • KJT 1.1.1.6.1

            + 1.

            Don’t forget lending back the money required to live, which they took off our earnings in the first place. And charging for it.

          • Tribeless 1.1.1.6.2

            Dave, where do you think the following quantities fit into your prescription:

            80 million.
            60 million.
            20 grams.

            ?

            And I’m not right wing. I’m Objectivist first. I vote Libertarianz second.

            And here’s another great quote from The Rational Capitalist:

            http://dougreich.blogspot.com/2011/10/ows-dogs-chasing-cars.html

            The inability and unwillingness for the left to argue critically for its agenda is a recurring theme that I have blogged about for years. Clearly, a sheer unanimity of angst exists among them related to perceived societal injustices, yet the vaguest sense of cause and effect, context, or solutions does not. The corollary is that they rarely understand or even acknowledge the implications of their own positions. For example, socialism necessitates the initiation of force against innocent people – that is the point of the redistribution of wealth and the abrogation of property rights. However, most will become angry, switch topics or even deny the reality of that logic to the point of denying the facts of history.

            The left chooses not to acknowledge or clarify their demands because it brings into focus the actual political policies necessary to achieve them. And why would that be bad? Because, at root, socialism necessitates the violent transfer of wealth from one group to another group, a rather frightening position to explicitly advocate. Such a program is not only highly impractical, since it leads to stagnation, poverty and misery, but is profoundly immoral as it treats the productive as slaves authorizing the state to perpetrate acts of escalating violence against innocent individuals who want to own the products of their labor.

            • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.6.2.1

              “And I’m not right wing. I’m Objectivist first. I vote Libertarianz second.”
               
              And delusional the rest of the time, apparently. It’s a bit rich you lecturing the left if you don’t even know your own political position.

              • McFlock

                oh, but objectivists are above it all. Don’t you know that, VoR? 

                 
                I agree with tribeless in one respect, though – socialists do have a habit of being upset about social injustices. Something to do with their completely irrational tendency to empathise with and care about the well-being of their fellow citizens.

            • KJT 1.1.1.6.2.2

              “”The Right chooses not to acknowledge or clarify their demands because it brings into focus the actual political policies necessary to achieve them. And why would that be bad? Because, at root, capitalism necessitates the violent transfer of wealth from one group to another group, a rather frightening position to explicitly advocate. Such a program is not only highly impractical, since it leads to stagnation, poverty and misery, but is profoundly immoral as it treats the productive as slaves authorizing the state to perpetrate acts of escalating violence against innocent individuals who want to own the products of their labor.””

              Had to fix it for a RWNJ again!

              Why right wing “Libertarians” always vote for more police power.

              • Tribeless

                Lovely people here aren’t they. Good examples I why free men wouldn’t want the Left making rules that run their lives.

                I’m not right wing. I just want the freedom to pursue my happiness: and that is not possible in our social(alist) democracy where I have no privacy or freedom from the State. The conservative god faring right wing can no more give me that than the left can: both sides believe the State is my master rather than my servant. New Zealand today is literally far closer to 1984 than to 1776, and that is a cause of great sadness to me, particularly as I am forced to pay for a society I have little philosophical agreement with.

                By the way KJT, your last comment about Libertarians shows you don’t know what one is.

                • McFlock

                  shrug off to somalia if you want freedom from the state.

                  • Tribeless

                    Oh, excellent, Somalia. The man who does all my face to face work has written well on why Somalia could not only be further removed from a libertarian minarchy, but in some major areas more closely approximates our socialist democracies.

                    To Sacha Dylan – The Standard: No, Somalia is Nothing Like A Libertarian State. Couldn’t be Further From it.

                    And a bit disappointed no one has figured out my numbers above, yet. Or does no one actually read anyone else’s posts in here?

                    • lprent

                      Yep. But first they have to be convinced that you’re worth expending the effort on…

                      So far to me you look like a run of the mill egotist with a cheap understanding of an idea – which as per the usual, you mistake for wisdom. We’ve all seen such acts before, and mostly we’ve giving up participating in such public masturbatory displays.

                      Does that make it clearer how many here view you?

                      BTW: You’ll probably find this thread in OpenMike soon. It looks like being out of context with the post and I suspect I’ll be moving it when I start moderating.

                    • Tribeless

                      Would you like to add some substance, rather than just random abuse. Argue the points raised on my link.

                      And you’re a moderator in here? Blimey. You’re quite quickly turning your blog into the Soviet Union.

                      [lprent: That wasn't abuse - that was a description of a boring dickhead. My abuse tends to be somewhat more pointed.

                      Read the policy. You're just stupid enough to have not already read it to find out what is permissible on our site. Having the rule of the sysop and moderators that are enforced is a major reason why we had the large numbers of page views last month and the loudmouth egofests that you'd approve of tend to not have comments. ]

                    • McFlock

                      Typical simplistic “analysis” – by overemphasising the tribal influences of Somali society (I won’t speculate as to why he makes this mistake) he argues that Somalia can’t be a libertarian society. The trouble is that Somalia is exactly what a libertarian society looks like in practise – because the state provides no assistance, people are forced to band together using other social structures – e.g. religious, regional, or indeed tribal. These become threats to your minimalist state (e.g. Al-Shabaab). The result is anarchy.

                      Societies are more complex than slogans. (Except that one)

                      [edit: strangely appropriate that you linked to a site called "solopassion"]
                        

                    • NickS

                      And you’re a moderator in here? Blimey. You’re quite quickly turning your blog into the Soviet Union.

                      My irony meter has doth exploded…

                      As an objectivist, you’re meant to respect an individual’s property rights and lprent has rather obvious property rights over this place. Ergo, he has the right to do with it what he sees fit, along with the content posted by commenter’s. Thus complaining about censorship is a disingenuous fundamental breach of lprent’s property rights…

                      lololololololol.

                      Stupid stupid whining ignorant hypocritical objectivist twit, don’tcha know, if you what your own freedom of speech get your own goat-fucking blog.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Tribeless, this is a pretty common theme here. Yell “RANDIAN, RWNJ!!!! GO BACK TO SOMALIA!!!!!!”. Then shut down the debate. Saying something substantive isn’t the purpose of this blog.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      lprent has the right to use his server space as he pleases. However,shutting down the debate just because your minions can’t defend their side is intellectually dishonest, at best. I think he knows that deep down.

                    • lprent []

                      Nope. It is more basic than that. I really couldn’t give a damn about whatever rubbish he was pouring out. I have seen it too many times before and it just reads like mosquito whines.

                      How is it that libertarians seem to have been crushed through the same tool – they act more like indoctrinated boring clones from a hive than actual opinionated people. It isn’t unique to them, just more consistent. Like toy soldiers out of a injection mould.

                      He was just annoying me because the “debate” was in a post that it bore virtually no topical relationship to. It should have been in OpenMike (where I wouldn’t have bothered with it). Effectively this juvenile arsewipe hijacked a post.

                      His debating ‘style’ just reminds me of every other obnoxious twerp I have run across who comes in boots and all into a forum area without bothering to check out the local “law”. That is a very fast way to find out how fast and hard you can get kicked. You should find out if only so you know when you’re in danger. Dickhead didn’t, which means that I wind up with the wearisome chore of yet again educating someone whose testicle hormones are overpowering their common sense.

                      I find using a club to be the most effective educational use of my time. It teaches them to be a wee bit more cautious. I’ll usually do it after I see them starting to demand actions from others with all the grace of a spoiled child.

                      And Rusty, you’ll know exactly what I mean from your own past experience.

                    • McFlock

                      1: Nobody’s “shut down the debate”. Tb packed a snoot and called it “censorship” simply because their use of idiotic catch-calls tirggered the moderation queue. 
                       
                      2: I fucking love yelling “Somalia” at libertarian morons. Why? Because Somalia is objectivism in actuality, not the psuedo-intellectual circle-jerk that is the libertarian blogosphere.

                      3: You never say anything substantive, Rusty – you misinterpret other people’s points of view to “answer” straw arguments that nobody asked, and your “answers” are simple repetitions of the objectivist catechism, performed by rote and without understanding.

                    • Tribeless

                      Let’s see. You give me a one week ban so I go away. Every one here piles in because I can no longer ply my argument. Then you actually change your post that banned me lprent, or whatever, to take away the one week ban part that was previously printed, so it looks like I’ve simply not stuck around.

                      Well, actually, with bad faith like that, Sacha, why would anyone who wanted to debate stick around?

                      I wouldn’t. If anyone wants to debate where debate is welcomed, then you can do so here.

                      And for the record, trying to wade through the stock in trade ad hominen here, no one has yet refuted my Somalia debunking post, other than in your dreams.

                      To end by answering to my numbers above.

                      80 million: the estimate of Chinese citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      60 million: the estimate of Soviet citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      20 grams; the current daily food ration of a North Korean pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      Take away free markets, you take away your liberty first, then you lose everything.

                      Oh, my first post was fully on topic, per your moderation policy. No one deigned or was able to answer it, then, as is the nature of Internet blogs, discussion became diffuse as I defended the multitude of attacks from every conceivable angle. What’s your problem with that; it’s the internet. Look to your flunkies first if you want to keep debates on a narrow track.

                      [lprent: I reread my note and decided I was being too grumpy - since I had already banned two people earlier. You were a newbie, and quite evidentially young, stupid and gullible - all of which are correctable conditions.

                      But I am always willing to help out. Would you like a ban? I could just escalate it so you can seriously feel victimized. Of course it rather define you. ]

                    • NickS

                      lprent has the right to use his server space as he pleases. However,shutting down the debate just because your minions can’t defend their side is intellectually dishonest, at best. I think he knows that deep down.

                      What part of “property rights” do you not understand? Because what you’re doing is trying to run over some of lprent’s property rights via a silly moral argument.

                      lolirony.

                    • mik e

                      Tribeless you want that sort of crap go to kiwiblog .we are alot more refined and economically educated I’ve been studying economics for over thirty years and have read libraries and none of your propaganda adds up tell me the top five performing economies in the world not one of them follows your pathetic prescription but when it comes to the worst performing economies you will find it very close to your percsription

                    • joe90

                      80 million: the estimate of Chinese citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      60 million: the estimate of Soviet citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      Compare and contrast.

                      http://www.newscientist.com/embedded/20worst

                    • McFlock

                      (80…60…20… yadda yadda)
                       
                      Lol.
                      If you’re not with us you’re a maoist-stalinist-whateverthehellNKis-ist?
                        
                      Typical randian BS masquerading as a “discussion”. have fun with your solitary passion.
                       

                • KJT

                  Yes it does. Hypocrites!

                  • Tribeless

                    Yes what does?

                    • Tribeless

                      Right, I’m being moderated all of a sudden.

                      At least have the decency to put up this last post, unedited. I will not debate where I am moderated. If anyone wants unmoderated debate, follow my above link to the Libertarian State is not Somalia.

                      And really, the left, get over all the heavy handed, and censoring BS. Or don’t you actually want debate?

                      See ya.

                    • no keep your boufant on, you’re not being moderated.
                      “soviet” triggers the arsehole filter is all, it’s not actually about you

                    • KJT

                      Looks like the ideal Libertarian Neo-Liberal State to us.

                      No Taxes, No Government.

                      Wealthy do whatever they like.

                      Endless supply of cheap labour.

                      Pay for your own police, roads, army, if you want them, and have the money.

                      Isn’t that what you lot cream your pants over.

                    • clandestino

                      What, so when you can’t convince anyone of the merits of your argument you run away? I imagine that’s what libertarians would do in a true libertarian state, run away and hide behind their gates and blue shirted thugs. 

                      And they are blind to the problems of their ideology. Not everyone is motivated by ‘rational’ greed, unfettered markets do not allocate resources efficiently, and externalities are either ignored or shrugged off as something that will be dealt with by the ‘market’, mechanisms tba. 

                      Dave is correct, the surplus value of labour must be expropriated or capital inequalities will continue to build. When the best argument he can come up with is ‘change jobs’, you know he doesn’t get it.

              • Tribeless

                comment deleted
                [sprout: now you are just getting boring boring. initially you were amusingly, absurdly boring, but the fun's worn off. in case you're unfamiliar, i am not a moderate moderator. if people derail discussion on my posts intentionally, through being persistently boring, unimaginative or just plain crazy or creepy - i delete them. to save you responding here's your bit - wah wah freedom of speech wah victim wah wah]

                • McFlock

                  I’m a mid-30s IT professional. You’re free to leave the country any time you want.
                   
                  BTW who paid for your degrees?

                • I’m a 46 year old professional with an A+ average across three tertiary degrees.

                  Blimey, I could be your older twin!

                  Seriously, I think you need to add some wisdom to that intelligence.

                  Start by not being so judgmental (kindergarten?). And, please realise that it’s irrelevant whether others judge you – that doesn’t abrogate your responsibility to become wise and not judge. You should know better if you’ve seriously applied that intelligence to understanding others. 

                  Follow that up by feeling a bit of compassion for others. You are not being ‘burdened’ by others. They are the reality of this life and world and they are the closest thing in this universe to you – and that’s not a bad thing.

                  Finally, get out more. And I mean that intellectually. I’ve seen too many very intelligent people become trapped by deliciously crystalline, beautiful but sparsely furnished, fleshless ideologies and theoretical frameworks.

                  Find your way out of the fly bottle … (never trust an ideology – even Objectivism – that is too good to be true; it probably is). 

                • lprent

                  So?

                  You sound stupid and naive to me – for instance in your preconceptions. I’m 52, worked in management for many years, spent even more writing software in c++ and running development teams and building software companies because I like programming. I did a BSc In earth sciences, a MBA at Otago in operations, and a couple of looser degrees part time for interest.

                  I have been running local political campaigns as a volunteer for longer than your work record for Helen. In income terms, you can guarantee that it is likely I have paid more taxes than you have had income, especially since you appear to have spent so much time getting academic success. I spent most of my full time student time in the army, as a barman, poking around volcanic deposits or learning to code.

                  I have also been around the net in NZ since before it started.

                  There are quite a lot of commentators here that I can respect because of what they do or for what they know – despite their views that I usually disagree with. So far you don’t sound like one. You sound like you are so full of your own sense of importance that you haven’t bothered to look for the flaws and gotchas in your favorite theories. You’re also peddling stuff that I got bored with from repiticious waffling on usenet when you were high school.

                  Perhaps you should check your silly preconceptions, stop screaming “look at me” and start listening as well. There is an art form to projecting personality over social media. You project male adolescent

                • NickS

                  If degrees conferred intelligence and wisdom, I wouldn’t see idiots with BSc’s, BE etc and higher saying evolutionary biology is teh wrongzors!111!! for all sorts of utterly stupid reasons.

                  And your original post is even more hilarious given the time in which you got your degrees you would have received quite a lot of funding from the government, amounting to a free ride.

                  And especially amusing to me, despite being nearly twice my age, you haven’t picked up on some the basic social and group behaviour stuff that took me until I was 21 to fully learn. Nor can you seemingly grasp anything overly complex enough to argue here and now, in spite of those degrees. Leading me to think that you didn’t go into post grad and those are all undergrad degrees.

                • Tribeless

                  comment deleted
                  [sprout]

                  • McFlock

                    Seriously? A Gulag? Because a moderator got fed up with you being a stupid dick?
                    lol.
                    Rourke wasn’t such a whiney little creep. Rand would have spat on you.

                    • Tribeless

                      comment deleted
                      [sprout]

                    • The Voice of Reason

                      And yet the Standard remains popular despite your criticisms. Could it be that you don’t know your arse from your elbow? Let’s let the market decide, eh?

                    • Tribeless

                      comment deleted

                      [sprout] your comment after this one, comparing me to a mass murderer (which is very impolite and suggests you are incapable of taking hints about your behaviour) has now got you banned.
                      that’s one less tribe.
                      bye bye.

                      [lprent: Added to the auto-spam list as being too stupid a troll to be bothered with. I will copy his messages into spam as well to give the heads up to other wordpress sites. ]

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Tribeless once again you distort reality. Are you seriously advancing the position that the welfare state caused Deutschebank et al to sell multiple cdo’s that they knew were worthless? Are you going to claim that Alan Greenspan was a secret Marxist?
                      Oh, and your cherry-pick of 2010 says something about you, but nothing whatsoever about economic or social trends.

                  • NickS

                    Oh man, you should so start posting over at Pharyngula, then you’ll have something to really complain about cupcake as they love objectivists* over there…

                    Also, my first through upon gazing at your blog was “oooh, he’s just like the old, authoritarian communist nutters we had at Canty parroting empty ideological rhetoric”…

                    And the lulz, oh Cthulhu, it’s like stumbling over a creationist forum that’s lain untouched by trolls. Though much like creationists, I some how doubt you’ll respect “free speech” when it’s making fun of you and doing 50 [insert dictator here] posts/pain series/evidence based cluebats.

                    ________________________________
                    *note: this unit finds the term rather amusing given the philosophical issues endeared by both the name, the movements claims and the actions of it’s numerous delusional members.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Ha, I love it! “We’re not shutting down the debate, just banning anyone who we can’t respond to”. Intellectual integrity at its finest.

            • Ari 1.1.1.6.2.3

              For “socialism”* as you call it to violate property rights, it would first have to acknowledge them in a form which contradicts its communitarian policies. It makes no such acknowledgement to a right to property, and is in fact rather stringent on what counts as property, and rather ambiguous as to whether you have any rights to any property beyond what is needed for everyone to live a decent life.

              *We’re really talking about social democracy, as nobody has been advocating communal ownership of capital in this thread, as far as I can see.

        • lefty 1.1.1.7

          Tribeless said
          “And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much? ”

          The banks for a start. They are doing just fine. And guess where Mr Key worked before becoming a politician.

          A system built on theft?
          Yes.
          Capitalism is based on bosses creating profits through stealing the labour of workers. Thats exactly how it works, no question about it, but the current hegemony is to deny and disguise it.

          Benefits are required so the reserve pool of labour can survive in case the capitalists need to steal some labour off them one day.

          You shouldn’t be complaining the 99% come cheap.

          • mik e 1.1.1.7.1

            41 percent increase in profit in a recession who’s doing well out of this economy not the productive sector or any one else except the top ten percent

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      Ah, look at that, the dictator (Tribeless) has come back. He has, over on Red Alert somewhere, told us that democracy is the problem and that he doesn’t want anybody interfering with what he does – even when what he does affects them.

      • McFlock 1.2.1

        why does that not surprise me?

      • Ari 1.2.2

        If someone who believes in welfare for corporations is a vulgar marxist, does that make someone who believes in absolute freedom only for themselves a vulgar libertarian? LOL.

  2. lan 2

    Beautiful!

    • joe90 2.1

      One of my favourites. What’s wrong with libertarianism.

      In short:

      First, the worship of the already successful and the disdain for the powerless is essentially the morality of a thug. Money and property should not be privileged above everything else– love, humanity, justice.

      Second, it’s the philosophy of a snotty teen, someone who’s read too much Heinlein, absorbed the sordid notion that an intellectual elite should rule the subhuman masses, and convinced himself that reading a few bad novels qualifies him as a member of the elite.

      Third, and perhaps most common, it’s the worldview of a provincial narcissist. As I’ve observed in my overview of the 20th century, liberalism won its battles so thoroughly that people have forgotten why those battles were fought.

      It’s hard to read libertarians without concluding that they’ve never been out of the country– perhaps never out of the suburbs. They don’t know what Latin American rule by the elite looks like; they don’t know any way of running an industrial economy but that of the US; they don’t know what an actually oppressive government looks like; they’ve never experienced a depression; they’ve never lived in a slum or experienced racial discrimination. At the same time, they have a very American sense of entitlement: a gut feeling that they’ve earned the prosperity they were born into, that they owe the community nothing, that they deserve to have whatever they want, that no one should stand in their way.

      In short, they’re spoiled, and they’ve evolved a philosophy that they should be spoiled.

      • fmacskasy 2.1.1

        Libertarianism advocates that a government is involved in only three things;

        1. National defence

        2. Policing

        3. Enforcing contracts

        The rest is up to individuals to sort out themselves, on a strictly user-pays system.

        But hang on a minute. If we take User Pays to it’s end, ridiculous ultimate conclusion – then Policing should be left up to individuals as well.

        Why should I, in a Libertarian Nirvana, pay for a police force I might not use, and which is focused on other peoples’ problems?

        People should pay for their own police or protection. After all, if I choose not to have possessions in a Libertarian Nirvana, then why should I need Police?

        In effect, Libertarianism is the ultimate destruction of any sense of community. Somalia, in some ways, is an example of Libertarianism in many respects.

  3. Hami Shearlie 3

    John won’t give a fig about debt he caused for the people of NZ – he’ll have left a trail of destruction behind him and be living in Hawaii with his knighthood! Cosy eh?

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Of course he gives a fig about it – he’ll be making a government guaranteed profit from it somewhere (probably through his BoA shares).

  4. Richard Down South 4

    $40 billion? source?

  5. Peter 5

    Nice picture. Give us some quotable facts.

    • Diane 5.1

      Bernanke has been publicly quoted as saying they have just lent 9 billion to NZ from the IMF which comes from the Federal Reserve Bank. He says this has been lent in for an exchange of credit. What I would like to know is what are they terms of this loan and over what period is this paid back, what are the interests costs and what is the money being used for.What is the exchange for credit that our country has given.

      This money has been created by the Federal Reserves and Central banks of the world out of thin air, backed by what? air and we have to pay it back at compounding interest. This is fraud and these bankers should be locked up for stealing and deceiving the people of every nation. We will never pay it off the our future generations will never pay it off. This whole economic system is built on corruption and it is will continue to enslave the nations. The only beneficiaries in this are the owners of these private banks and corporations who control the world economic system.

      You only have to look at what this economic system has done to the world economies and see what’s going on. It’s obviously not working.

      • Rusty Shackleford 5.1.1

        Gross. I was not aware of this, and it doesn’t seem to be getting any play in the media. How people can say capitalism is the problem when this sort of anticapitalism is going on is beyond me.

        • McFlock 5.1.1.1

          Real-world capitalism, not the unachievable (and somewhat naive) “no true scotsman” you uphold.

  6. higherstandard 6

    Come on now wasn’t the only real case of drunken semen in parliament during recent times that of Darren Hughes ?

    • The Voice of Reason 6.1

      You seem to know a lot about it, HS, Anything you want to get off your chest or out of your closet?

      • higherstandard 6.1.1

        It’s true VoR I’ve always had a thing for gingas………… my secret shame !

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1

          hs it’s a bit sad, really, when you strip away the anecdotal arguments, and the blinkered adherence to economic fairytales, how many people on the right simply reveal themselves as bigots.

          • Tigger 6.1.1.1.1

            HS – I’d watch out with that type of remark. If you righties want to go there just be prepared to take a couple of your own team down.

            • higherstandard 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Couldn’t care less Tigger if you’ve got dirt on politicians feel free to dish it – people should know who they’re voting for.

              • Campbell Larsen

                People should also know WHAT they are voting for – and not have the details hidden in secret negotiations which undermine sovereignty like the TPPA, or have radical policies which the majority of the population disagree with implemented on the flimsy pretext of the ‘mandate of an election’
                If you had any consistency that wasnt troll you would be as zealous in demanding transparency on these issues.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                “Dirt”? You mean like having a blind trust that isn’t blind then setting policy as a member of cabinet that directly affects your personal investments, like corrupt lying John Key does?

          • fender 6.1.1.1.2

            Its standard practice for those who feel they are above the rest, they even claim to have “higher standards” but we know their necks are very very red.

  7. Terry 7

    Yes, right. I am even more bothered by his mass of drunken sailor supporters.

  8. KJT 8

    Over 60% of all taxes are paid by middle income earners.

    Keys claim that GST is progressive is obvious lying.

    The BS numbers from Farrar, claiming huge proportions of tax are paid by the top few

    The top 10% of households may pay 71% of income tax, (Though that is debatable. The lower income families in that range, the 150k to 200k pay proportionately more tax than the really high earners) but definitely not even 40% of total taxes paid.

    Half the wealthiest households do not pay tax!

    Anyway. It is fair that us, who are better off, who benefit most from our society, pay the most taxes.

    I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
    Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

    • queenstfarmer 8.1

      I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
      Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

      Oh please – are you seriously suggesting that Phil is so weak that he can be thrown-off by his opponent just like that? Phil is in his 4th decade in Parliament. He is far more experienced than John in that regard, and he can cut-and-thrust with the best of them. Most commentators agree that Phil was clearly caught out on the spending hole issue.

      • Craig Glen Eden 8.1.1

        Caught out I dont think so I think Key entered the parlor, the last laugh will be telling. Labour’s figures will be delivered all in good time, I only wish Key could deliver the jobs for the nations sake instead of his constant spending in the interest of the extreme rich. Just think if he actually could deliver and get people of the benefits like he promises closed the wage gap with Aussie we really would have a brighter future the evidence however shows over the last three years he’s all talk.

        • queenstfarmer 8.1.1.1

          Labour’s figures will be delivered all in good time

          Good time would have been in the leaders debates. It is quite extraordinary that Phil turned up unable to answer that basic question.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.1.1

            Here’s the answer: “We haven’t released our budget yet, John, how would you know what it says? This is the third different figure you’ve come up with now, stop making things up and act like a leader for a change.”

          • bbfloyd 8.1.1.1.2

            so an economic policy for the whole country that can be explained in 20 seconds…. sounds like the sort of idiocy that most tories have got the attention span for….which gives us a good pointer as to why we always end up deep in the shit every time we get a national govt

    • too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying

      I got the impression he was… like, where do you start

      • KJT 8.2.1

        Probably.

        It is debating technique to demand short answers to ones that can only be answered in detail.

        One that is favoured by journalists and fudgers who have already decided on the answers they want.

    • Kaplan 8.3

      “Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.”

      That was exactly my thought. When Key started with his ‘show me the money stand-up routine’ I though how the hell does Phil answer that without simply calling Key out as a disgrace and a liar, again?

      If Key is going to keep bareface lying to the public it’s pretty damn hard to answer it any other way I would have thought. The details and truth are just going to be lost under Key’s desperate cries of ’17 bullyon, 14 bullyon’. (Can’t get his lies straight… )

    • I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
      Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

      It seemed to me that Goff had to hold back sometimes, and let things slide, else he would be seen as too aggressive, shouting over the top of Key, or any of the other stupid criteria that people use to rubbish their ideological opponents. 
      Such is the nature of such debates (much as I would have liked to see Key cowering in the corner, whimpering and crying for his mother in the face of the truth!)

  9. Tom Gould 9

    Nice work, but too late. The MSM has bought his lies for 3 years, so they have convinced themselves that the most reckless ‘borrow and spend’ government New Zealand has ever seen, with the possible exception of Muldoon, is in fact prudent with the people’s dough. Besides, none of it is their fault, remember. Meanwhile the longest media honeymoon in history carries on.

  10. In Vino Veritas 10

    “created record levels of unemployment”

    Now this is just plain mischief making since it is untrue. Mr Goff would probably call it a “lie”.
    Unemployment reached a historical high (record) of 11.20% in September of 1991.Unemployment in NZ has averaged 6.25% between 1985 and 2010, and therefore,the 6.5% unemployment rate at end June 11 quarter is not particularly worse than the average. It is also pertinent to note that the average OECD rate for the June 11 quarter was 9.2%, significantly higher than NZ’s (who rank 12th from 34 in the OECD).

    Sprout, suggest you get your facts right before making mischief.

    • ak 10.1

      Yeah Sprout, you mischiefy little scamp you. Fancy pointing out the shocking rise in unemployment under Key when we all know that previous right-wingers have done much, much worse. Give the poor bugger time, he’s still only a learner at this poor-bashing stuff. One thing at a time eh, he’s busy ripping babies from their mothers’ arms at the mo.

      • the sprout 10.1.1

        Sprout, suggest you get your facts right before making mischief.

        ouch!
        good thing i didn’t mention the record lows in wage and economic growth

        • In Vino Veritas 10.1.1.1

          Hmm, sorry, I get it, never let the facts get in the way of a personal opinon that gets published as the truth. No wonder all left wing systems have been abject failures. For one, they rely so much on propaganda.Socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money. Check out Greece, socialists did well there, didnt they?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1.1

            “From 04 – 09 under New Democracy, it ranged between 100% and 110%. Though to be fair, it was trending upwards.” In Vino Veritas.
            So you even debunk your own lies within minutes of telling them.

            • In Vino Veritas 10.1.1.1.1.2

              And then it jumped 32% in less than two years under PASOK. At least I said it how it is\was, but as always One, you read and re publish the bits that suit your argument, rather than the overall picture.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                No, I quoted the bit that showed you were lying, in your own words. I haven’t expressed an opinion on the roots of Greece’s opportunity/problem at all.

                • In Vino Veritas

                  And I certainly dont see where I have told any lie. Read the original post I made. Socialists have been in power for 13 of the past 18 years in Greece. I pointed out that Greece’s % debt to GDP had trended up from 100 to 110% under the Democratic party, it got to 100% under Socialism in the first place, then jumped to 142% under Socialism after they took power in 2009. As I say, didnt the Socialist do well?

                  I repeat, you read and re publish the bits that suit your argument, rather than the overall picture.

                  KJT, French banks own more Greek soveriegn debt than industry in Greece, that’s why the French are currently packing themselves, under the bailout scheme they have to take a 50% bath on the debt and along with other EC banks stump up with a share of $100bn to make the bailout work.

          • KJT 10.1.1.1.2

            The Greeks average longer hours for less money than the Germans and the French.
            Who have money to lend to them because they are paid more and they own a lot of Greek industry.

            Who is really living beyound their earnings is not that simple..

          • Galeandra 10.1.1.1.3

            Greece? Other posts already made the point over’n over but here goes anyway. You can read?

            (This is repeating on me like a bad cheerio at a Tory wake)
            .
            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/the-spanish-tragedy/

            As Europe is roiled by sovereign debt fears, it’s important to realize that the crisis in the largest of the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) has nothing to do with fiscal irresponsibility. On the eve of the crisis, Spain was running a budget surplus; its debts, as you can see in the figure above, were low relative to GDP.
            So what happened? Spain is an object lesson in the problems of having monetary union without fiscal and labor market integration. First, there was a huge boom in Spain, largely driven by a housing bubble — and financed by capital outflows from Germany. This boom pulled up Spanish wages. Then the bubble burst, leaving Spanish labor overpriced relative to Germany and France, and precipitating a surge in unemployment. It also led to large Spanish budget deficits, mainly because of collapsing revenue but also due to efforts to limit the rise in unemployment.

            • Nick C 10.1.1.1.3.1

              Sure, monetary union without fiscal union is a stupid idea (thats no nessesarily a principle which should go along ideological lines but until recently it was mostly people on the right saying it). Reality is though that very few European states would commit to a true fiscal union.

              Lets accept Krugmans analysis that Spain got screwed over in that respect. Doesn’t explain Ireland, Italy, Portugal or Greece does it?

              The exact graph he used to exonerate Spain of fiscal stupidity pretty much convicts the rest of them in that regard.

    • mik e 10.2

      Sou you forget the 100,000 that have left permanently to Australia while they still can afford to do so with the polls and polsters saying this could be a three term National Govt you can understand the reasoning as New Zealand will continue to decline under National like it has before
      Its even scarier that National have only promised 57,000 new jobs which really means there will be 150,000 more unemployed and heading to Australia for a brighter future

  11. Richard Down South 11

    On a related note… ANZ posted a nice profit… anyone know if they pay any NZ tax as they are Aussie owned? http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5901375/ANZ-NZ-annual-profit-jumps-25-per-cent

  12. randal 12

    went to town yesterday and a mince pie from the cafe was $4.80.
    So who’s zooming who?

    • Lanthanide 12.1

      Mince pies will go up in price if Labour puts up the minimum wage.

      • bbfloyd 12.1.1

        not to mention higher fuel costs passed on through prices from wholesalers…. higher energy prices….falling sales(but not for long when more people on minimum wages can afford to buy pies)…. not forgetting that the vast majority of bakeries are family owned and run….

        so it’s obvious that the raising of the minimum wage is the one thing that will wreck everything….. really… it’s so obvious….. isn’t it?

        • Lanthanide 12.1.1.1

          The main cost in petrol is the price of crude oil. Putting the minimum wage up to $15 might increase the price at the pump by 1 or 2 cents.

          Similarly, electricity companies aren’t going to be employing many minimum wage people, so it’ll have practically no affect on that.

          Also I never said that “raising of the minimum wage is the one thing that will wreck everything”, what I said is that the price of mince pies will go up once it’s been raised.

          • thejackal 12.1.1.1.1

            Lanthanide

            The main cost in petrol is the price of crude oil. Putting the minimum wage up to $15 might increase the price at the pump by 1 or 2 cents.

            Bullshit! The oil companies put the price of petrol up prior to the 2008 election in dramatic fashion with the MSM regularly giving soundbites as if this was Labours fault. Since the last election prices have remained stagnant until last month when they started to decrease.

            Oil companies favour National because they have less restrictions on exploitation of the environment. National ensures that any imposable fines on the oil and gas industry for their polluting of the environment are minimal or non existent.

            Wage increases have no effect on this dynamic but everything to do with peoples ability to save. Your malleable argument is particularly soft La 57.

            • Lanthanide 12.1.1.1.1.1

              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/WTI_price_96_09.svg

              Notice the big spike in 2008? You know, highest price of oil per barrel in history?

              You can read some more about how petrol prices in New Zealand are *actually* set, here: http://www.aa.co.nz/motoring/aa-torque/motoring-blog/petrolwatch/?start=0

              There also exists somewhere on the internet a graph showing the average retailer margin on a litre of petrol. It usually hovers around 8c. For every litre the petrol station charges you $2.12 for, they get 8c in profit.

              About 50-55% of the price of petrol at the pump goes to the government in taxes in one form or another, including carbon tax, GST and a petrol levy.

              Diesel is much cheaper at the pump because the road user tax is excluded and paid for separately (because lots of farmers use it in tractors that never go on the road, etc). In the US, diesel costs more than petrol.

              But hey, if you want to keep believing that it’s some conspiracy between the National party and the oil companies, I’m sure I can’t stop you, no matter how much evidence I present.

              • vto

                “they get 8c in profit”

                no, they get 8c in revenue. very different.

                • Lanthanide

                  Yes, sorry.

                  This only underlines even more that a $15 minimum wage is barely going to affect petrol prices.

              • thejackal

                You’ve not presented evidence that the conspiracy does not exist Lanthanide… just that there’s other dynamics in how the price of petrol is set. But hey, you can also believe what you like… isn’t that a novel argument.

                • Lanthanide

                  Oh, so I have to prove there’s no conspiracy, do I? I guess for your next trick, you’ll demand that I prove there are no teapots travelling around the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter.

                  How about you prove the conspiracy does exist.

                  I don’t recall the media specifically blaming Labour for the price of petrol in 2008, but you should recall that they introduced the ETS, which did increase the petrol price by about 4-5c overnight, and were talking about introducing legislation that would allow regional councils to collect tax on petrol in their area to use to fund their local transportation infrastructure. Auckland city council was mooted to opt for the full 10c tax. It is highly likely that most articles blaming the price of petrol on Labour were talking about these issues.

                  • thejackal

                    How’s this for starters?

                    Strange that I get shit for not remembering something that happened in 2002 re the worm but people are fine with you not remembering occurrences in 2008. Pot calls kettle black.

                    If you say something does not exist… then you need to have evidence to base that assertion on… especially when there’s evidence pointing towards the conclusion that oil and gas companies would manipulate the market to influence who is governing. You have no evidence and have therefore lost the argument.

                    You could always try another argumentum ad logicam… But I find such things tedious! It would also seem off topic.

                    • The Voice of Reason

                      “If you say something does not exist… then you need to have evidence to base that assertion on…”
                       
                      You’re not religious are you? I seem to recall having that sort of illogical construction thrown at me the last time I laughed at the idea of a god.
                       
                      On the petrol and wages issue, Standardistas might consider choosing to buy their gas from BP Connect servos. The staff are unionised and paid well above the adult minimum rate. I’m also told that BP will not be using the 90 day provision, so there’s another good reason to go there.

                    • Lanthanide

                      So you’re linking to your own blog as evidence of… something?

                      I don’t know what that graph is supposed to show. I already linked to a graph of the price of oil showing a massive spike up during 2008. Your graph shows the same. Where’s the conspiracy, exactly?

                      My argument is that the price of crude oil and taxes dictate (at least) 90% of the petrol price and that employees being paid $13 or $15 minimum wage will barely make a dent in the price of petrol at the pump. You are claiming that somehow National was in cahoots with the oil companies in 2008 and that’s the only reason petrol prices in NZ were so high. Sorry, but if you do a little research, you will find that petrol prices rose to record highs in all parts of the western world in 2008, perfectly correlated with the high oil price. The US was up to over $4/gallon as the average price, for example. If you want to argue that petrol prices in the US were a result of Labour being in government in NZ, go right ahead.

                      And yes, it is quite apparent that you find logic tedious and have little time for it.

                      As for the worm in 2002, it was effectively wall-to-wall in the media, when United Future went from polling around 0.5% to 7% over night and ended up getting 9 MPs. That’s a pretty big thing to apparently have completely missed.

                    • thejackal

                      My religious beliefs are not relevant to the debate VoR, but thanks for asking.

                      However your assertion that the argument is religious in origin is because it’s often used by atheists… I’m refering to Lanthanides teapots travelling around the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter stupidity of course.

                      Lanthanide

                      So you’re linking to your own blog as evidence of… something?

                      You asked for evidence. There’s the Google public data graphic concerning the rise.

                      My argument is…

                      Again… you only prove that there are other dynamics involved.

                      If you want to argue that petrol prices in the US were a result of Labour being in government in NZ, go right ahead.

                      Thank you master. May I shine your fallacious little shoes first?

                      As for the worm in 2002, it was effectively wall-to-wall in the media, when United Future went from polling around 0.5% to 7% over night and ended up getting 9 MPs. That’s a pretty big thing to apparently have completely missed.

                      Now the worm in 2002 was broadcast more than the “it’s Labours fault the petrol prices are increasing” bullshit in 2008? Get real Lanthanide.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Russell’s teapot is a perfectly good analogy for the demand for evidence to disprove a conspiracy.

                  • thejackal

                    Lanthanide

                    And yes, it is quite apparent that you find logic tedious and have little time for it.

                    It’s logical that the oil and gas companies would work towards their goal of being able to conduct deep sea oil drilling in New Zealand. They would prefer whatever political organization might further those goals.

                    It appears that they’ve previously promoted a public belief that Labour equals higher fuel prices when this is not the case. Their greed equals higher fuel prices.

                    I do not see that this is an illogical argument. It is what I believe is the case and I do not have to provide airtight evidence to hold that belief… no matter how much you might try to demoralize me to win the argument Lanthanide.

                  • Lanthanide

                    So your evidence that National are in a conspiracy with the oil companies to rise the price of petrol in New Zealand, is a graph showing that the import costs of oil increased in 2008?

                    That’s it? That’s your only evidence?

                    “Now the worm in 2002 was broadcast more than the “it’s Labours fault the petrol prices are increasing” bullshit in 2008? Get real Lanthanide.”

                    Find me some articles blaming Labour for the petrol price rise (outside of the ETS and regional fuel tax, as I have already explained above) and you might have some evidence to base this assertion on.

                    As mildly entertaining as this exchange has been, it’s clearly going nowhere. So I’ll leave you with the slogan from the NZ Sceptics Society: When you hear the sound of hoofbeats in the night… think first of horses, not of zebras.

                    • clandestino

                      Hahaha, funniest exchange i’ve read since the 9/11 truthers way back in September. Methinks the jackal doth logic:fail too much.

                    • thejackal

                      As mildly entertaining as this exchange has been, it’s clearly going nowhere.

                      Agreed Lanthanide. Will get back to you sometime with further information/evidence regarding this. Although it’s not something that government’s or the oil and gas industry usually write about in articles.

  13. Anyonewhobelievesapoliticianwhentheysaytheyarehonestisafool 13

    Is this really the best the Left can do after their messiah was made to look weak and without a grip on the details of his election package?

  14. Craig Glen Eden 14

    I guess standard and poors are the liars then? Oh no thats right, National have got our country a credit down grade and John Key was not at the meeting!

    Oh just so we are clear on some reality.

  15. John for PM 15

    Ekshully that headline is completely false. I havunt been drunk on semen since my uni days

  16. Blue 16

    Key’s opened up a can of worms. He challenged Phil to show him the costings. And when Labour produces theirs, the heat should go on Key to explain his own numbers, which are full of holes.

    It’s only a victory to Key if it doesn’t come back to bite him in the arse later.

  17. rain33 17

    Regardless of anything, Labour need to get those figures out….and fast. “Show me the money”..is everywhere today, and as everyone knows perception is everything. Goff made huge inroads on Monday night, but last night Goff ended up on the ropes regarding this issue, which is disappointing as otherwise it would have hands down been a win for Goff, but that bit of sh*t really stuck.

    To not be able to come up with a satisfactory answer was a terrible look. I can understand that it is near impossible to deliver budget like figures in a debate environment…but that is no excuse for getting caught with your pants down. You have to come back with something other than a ‘i’ll get back to you’ type response. Uuggh.

    (show me the money, just heard it being referenced to again on the radio while typing)..anyway, there could have been no doubt that National were going to come out swinging after Monday night, it was a sea-shift moment. However, that could all account for nothing if Labour don’t get up swiftly and deliver a ‘right-back-at-ya’ moment.

    Hurry up guys…tick, tick, tick……

  18. Campbell Larsen 18

    Show me the jobs, Shon, show me the jobs. Times ticking, tick, tick, tick….

    • rain33 18.1

      Of course you’re right, but if you read the headlines out there today, the ball is in Labour’s court and they must produce the numbers…now! Every Labour supporter out there should be screaming out for them to come up with the numbers, for every minute that passes by is like oil leaking from the Rena…it’s damaging!

      • Campbell Larsen 18.1.1

        While I’m all for Labour being able to produce the information, I also think that quietly and confidently choosing the moment to relaese the information on ones own terms is preferable to pandering to a desperate faction of the MSM who erroneously believe that they have scented blood.
        This is especially so given the lack of detail from the Rats about there own policies, or more accurately the lack of policy from the Rats.
        Referencing the Rena is a bit of a stretch, this is not a shipwreck for Goff or Labour and is not likely to become so – Shonkeys supporters may wish it was but it is not.

        • Rob 18.1.1.1

          What, like Nov 28th Campbell.

        • rain33 18.1.1.2

          If Labour were well ahead in the polls I could agree with you. However, any gains made (and there definitely have been over the past couple of weeks) have to be hung on to, as those gains could disappear in a nanosecond. Unfortunately the average voter are a fickle bunch, and the die-hards are already locked in. So all of a sudden there is a group of people suddenly looking at Goff as a serious contender, but any sort of ‘stutter’ could see that evaporate very quickly.

          Labour supporters need to demand a ‘no stutter’ standard. You cant win on the back foot, Labour need to be front-footing it, their opening television address was far and away ahead of Nationals, which was unbelievably appalling, so get on it..no time for sitting back and waiting!

      • Anne 18.1.2

        +1

        Last night’s taunts by Key over Labour’s policy spending should have been anticipated. Goff should have been supplied with appropriate reprisals to counteract them.

  19. Roflcopter 19

    Maybe there’s a second “panel of experts” yet to be appointed, and it’s caused delays in getting the spreadsheet completed.

    • Rob 19.1

      This is the clear difference between career politicians and people that are employed in business or manage and lead businesses.  Not knowing your numbers is suicide.  At budget presentations if you cannot articulate your forecasts at various lines of a P&L you are mince meat. Last night unfortunatly what we see was a presentation of fairy tales by Phil Goff.  If he does not know how much they cost or even when they will start being effective (ie what fricken year they start kicking in) in the manner he is promoting then he is not fit to lead or even be involved. Also mentioning that he has a team knocking it up on a  spreadsheet was just lame and so second rate, most of us sort of expect that was probably done prior (does this guy think its 1978), get current man.

      So delay the number chaps, that will really work in your favour.

  20. Bovver 20

    3 more years boys and girls

  21. Uturn 21

    It’s amazing.

    Given some of the ideas here, National should’ve been obsolete years ago. The reasons National give for their policy is supported by people calling for solutions that ACT policy would fix. It would have given them what they wanted, starting 2008.

    But for some reason they don’t vote for what they say they want. Hmmm. Strange people.

  22. Tombstone 22

    What is National doing to improve the living standards, work opportunities and wages for ordinary, hard working Kiwis? Responsibly managing the economy? Bullshit they are and any donkey dick that says different is as good as kidding themselves. Look at the stats … National’s track record so far is bloody shocking. What the hell is there to crow about ya bunch of muppets!

  23. randal 23

    no bover.
    no more three years for the national party.
    if just selling the assets were enough the there are other plums as well, like new management contracts and new staff.
    nice work if you can get it.
    can they pull it off?
    who wins?
    the country is in need of reorganisation but only labour is trustworthy enough to take not only the hard decisons but the right decisions.

  24. Key is a wimp and Goff a sick joke.

    Would a REAL KIWI LEADER PLEASE STAND UP>>>PLEASE STAND UP?

    yeah right – dreams are free.

    Poor New Zealand. 

    • vto 24.1

      d4j, your river been treating you well? I seem to recall some comment in days past about judges and gangsters mooching together in the whitebait chase …

      • dad4justice 24.1.1

        kewl vto, a chess player, Justice Potter and Peter Davis.

        Game over nerd. Go away and whitebait your Dan Carter underwear.

        I have payback in mind. Stay away as you might break a fingernail darling.    

        • vto 24.1.1.1

          so clever you foolish fool. Just stick to them sticky sewery eastern drains. bleeaargh…. puke….. that oily sheen is the perfect mirror for you

  25. Harry Dupont 25

    Lets have a look at what’s happened in the last 3 years which may have caused the government to borrow a lot of money, increase unemployment levels and cause credit downgrades…

    Oh, that’s right. Canterbury suffered two catastrophic seismic events, another less severe but still damaging which further impacted the province’s ability to recover. Oh, and nearly 8000 aftershocks.

    Now, what does this have to do with government borrowing, spending, unemployment, etc? Well. These events have led to the government needing (or choosing, I guess, but realistically if they didn’t, things for New Zealand would be far worse than you guys seem to think they are) to bail out EQC and the rest of the insurance industry. Having a great deal of Canterbury businesses out of action has caused a downturn in tax revenue. And (as you’ll see below) an increase in unemployment/people drawing on the unemployment benefit. So there’s your deficit/borrowing increase.

    Next up: Unemployment. Any idea what happens when the part of our countries (still) second largest city has it’s densest area of commercial space completely out of action for almost a year? Yep, that’s right, people lose their jobs. And a lot of people lost their jobs. Less people employed means less people spending means more jobs lost because businesses can no longer afford to/no longer need to employ as many staff. So massive increase in unemployment. Increase in welfare payments (see above).

    Credit downgrades? Well, I’d think it’s fairly obvious that with bailouts of various industries, global economic downturn and various other things are going to lead to this kind of downgrade. So, yeah. There’s that.

    Seriously, so many people get high and mighty about what’s happened under National’s/John Key’s government, but do you stop to think that a huge portion of the things they complain about are outside of the government’s control. How exactly was the Rena disaster Mr Key’s fault? Did he set of earthquakes in Canterbury?

    Please, climb down off your high horses and remember that a Labour government would have ended up with the same issues.

    • Harry Dupont 25.1

      Oops, my grammar toward the end there got pretty atrocious, but oh well. I think my point was/is sufficiently made.

    • thejackal 25.2

      Harry Dupont

      How exactly was the Rena disaster Mr Key’s fault? Did he set of earthquakes in Canterbury?

      Please, climb down off your high horses and remember that a Labour government would have ended up with the same issues.

      I think this argument has been made numerous times before.

      Nobody is saying that John Key drove the Rena into the Astrolabe reef… what we are concerned with is the safety of ships and the skill employed on them in New Zealand’s waters… not to mention the ability of authorities to respond adequately when things go wrong.

      National did not respond well at all and there appears to be no proper infrastructure to deal with a relatively small oil spill (not that approximately 380+ tonnes of heavy fuel oil is a small amount) or any other hazardous substance that ships regularly carry through our water for that matter.

      We will never know if Labour would have done better… but I would hazard a guess that they might have initiated an increase in the maximum fines able to be imposed under the law. They may have also ensured that the recommendation to purchase a dedicated emergency response vessel was upheld.

      Please don’t try to negate Nationals responsibility for their obvious failures just because Labour might not have done any better… It’s an insult to all those affected by a disaster that is still unfolding.

      • mik e 25.2.1

        Thats Nationals policy export middle class labour voters
        Stay in power we need every expat kiwi to vote then start blogging

    • Puddleglum 25.3

      Hi Harry Dupont,

      I think you’ll find that the unemployment rate was rising some time before the Canterbury earthquakes. I think the safer argument (for National) is the global recession.

      On that, I think I recall that most right wing commenters here were praising National for not doing anything (i.e., no stimulus) to improve the unemployment statistics. Despite the supposed ‘Job Summit’, that is, the approval was for no government intervention to encourage job growth. It was all about – according to right wingers – tightening government expenditure, trying to keep the books in some semblance of ‘order’ and … waiting it out. The unemployed were simply collateral damage.

      I think that’s what people on the left had a problem with. 

  26. mik e 26

    borrow and hope
    blame game
    Nationals policy

  27. It may be appropriate to share this current project I’m working on. It’s not complete – but, I believe it shows fairly well the differences in Labour’s and National’s handling of the economy.

    Fair warning to Nat supporters: you won’t like this one little bit.

    http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/labour-the-economic-record-2000-2008/

    (Please note: still to be completed. The best is yet to come.)

  28. BLiP 28

    Sure, by all means, show John Key the money. Just don’t let him anywhere near it.

  29. muzza 29

    This thread is a disgrace, what is with all the academic garbage one upmanship, my failed ideology it better than yours , its like a bloody sandpit..

    It is clear like other blog sites there are no more than a handful of people who are pugged into reality, and not hiding behind their self perceived academic superiority!

    This thread is a classic example of why NZ is in the shit, because the egos of the nerds and theoretical ninnies can’t even play nice n such simple terms.

    • NickS 29.1

      Translation: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Iz soo much betters than alls of you cos I don’t bother thinking critikally abouts truth claims!

      And nice, both tone trolling and anti-intellectualism in one post.

    • lprent 29.2

      I wasn’t too happy about that (I was working too hard yesterday to do much moderation). It avoided the entire question of the post because of a libertarianz idiot running diversions.

      I think that I’ll have to run a zero tolerance program against the type. It is easy enough to add their favourite phrases to auto-moderation and start treating those as troll statements. They get restricted to comments in OpenMike because like Tribeless they tend to not respect anyone elses rules or property

  30. Campbell Larsen 30

    Muzza you are an ass. You accuse others of arrogance whilst at the same time implying that you are somehow able to determine who is ‘plugged into reality’
    Your comment is full of childish name calling eg ‘nerd’ and ‘ninnie’ – it’s like you have been transported here from a bad 80’s movie – you insult those you presumably want to hear your message and expect others to play nice while exempting yourself from the same requirements.
    If there is anyone who is not out of the sandpit I suspect that it is you sir.

  31. pat 31

    key and his minders knew that labours costings were not finished and had to be signed off,so his minders directed him to attack this,knowing goff couldn’t answer,key’s notes told him what to say as he always has his notes to refer to, now what nz needs is to know just exactly what national’s costings are,although national have never been honsest with the public anyway.
    National have borrowed $40b of tax payer funds to help his prefered sector of the public.
    National only focuses on labour to deflect any scrutiny of their own plans,one reveals a $35b issue
    of govt bonds at the cost of $100-$150 million a year to tax payers, $1.3b of govt bonds held at
    national and westpac banks have already been downgraded,so there are 3 downgrades under
    national and stratospheric debt and they will borrow more and kill the economy just like they
    did with ets and gst,then wonder why the economy has stalled,idiots or what.
    National can not manage a country’s economy,they are used to the wheeling and dealing
    of the sharemarket and the money market,a country’s economy affects 4.5 million people,sharemarkets and the money market only affects themselves and if this economic illiteracy
    continues under national,nz will be another greece.

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    Public Address | 30-09
  • Long run or short season for David Cunliffe?
    When you’ve read this short post have a look at the interview below with David Cunliffe on last night’s Campbell Live .  But first,  if you haven’t done so already, please  read my previous post on the ex Labour leader, titled...
    Brian Edwards | 30-09
  • Seaworthy ships and stormy seas – PPTA annual conference 2014
    30 September 2014 Pirates, privateers, seaworthy ships and stormy seas all featured in PPTA president Angela Roberts' nautically themed opening speech to the association's annual conference this morning. Describing the political context PPTA ventures out into as "often stormy and...
    PPTA | 30-09
  • Key admits exiling people without trial
    Back in February, we learned that John Key had responded to the "threat" of people travelling to Syria to participate in its civil war by cancelling their passports. This was done without any sort of due process or review, let...
    No Right Turn | 30-09
  • Reflections on Melbourne and Sydney
    2014 was an auspicious year. Whether by cosmic alignment or fickle chance, Easter Monday and Anzac Day fell in the same week, and I was able to shoot off to Melbourne and Sydney for ten days with only three days...
    Transport Blog | 29-09
  • The “Pacific solution” devolves into rape and child abuse
    Australia's "Pacific solution" of imprisoning refugees in remote gulags in an effort to pschologically torture them into going home has turned into a catalogue of horrors: neglect, beatings and rapes, torture, and murder. And now they've got a new one:...
    No Right Turn | 29-09
  • The leadership characteristic that shall not be named
    David Cunliffe formally resigns today, setting up a head-to-head battle between him and Grant Robertson, although there’s still a chance that David Shearer, Andrew Little and/or Stuart Nash might throw their hat(s) into the ring. As the Labour MPs arrived for...
    Occasionally erudite | 29-09
  • The leadership characteristic that shall not be named
    ...
    Occasionally erudite | 29-09
  • Th Austerity Disaster and its impact – Lessons for New Zealand? (Fro...
    Europe’s Austerity Disaster29/09/2014 by Joseph StiglitzJoseph Stiglitz“If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the theory,” goes the old adage. But too often it is easier to keep the theory and change the facts – or so German Chancellor Angela...
    the Irascible Curmudgeon | 29-09
  • The Damage Fallacies of Neo-Liberal economics cause
    The on-going and recent scandals (Judith Collins & Oravida, Maurice Williamson & Donghua Lui, John Key & Dirty Politics....)  in New Zealand that have swirled around the neo-liberal National Party government of Key, supported by the discredited political parties of...
    the Irascible Curmudgeon | 29-09
  • Changing Leaders Will Not Be Enough
    Trial By Ordeal: The techniques of the Seventeenth Century Witchfinders-General might be preferable to the process Labour has adopted to uncover the reasons for its woeful performance in the 2014 General Election. It's a pity the Party has not allowed...
    Bowalley Road | 29-09
  • Starting a constructive conversation on the future of the Treaty of Waitang...
    To learn more about our upcoming Treaty project click here...
    Gareth’s World | 29-09
  • Gillard on NZ Labour
    I arrived in Australia a month after Tony Abbott had been elected Prime Minister, a week after Bill Shorten had been elected Labor Leader and a month before Kevin Rudd announced his resignation from Parliament. It quickly amazed me how...
    Progress report | 29-09
  • March to #StopDeepSeaOil and #StopStatoil
    There have been amazing and moving scenes in Northland as the Waiho Papa Moana Hikoi made its way down from Cape Reinga to stand up for their coast, their way of life and for future generations. And they are not...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 29-09
  • Auckland Transport Early October Board Meeting
    The Auckland Transport board meeting is on Thursday and below are sections from the various reports that caught my attention. The first thing I noticed was the huge number of items on the closed agenda with 18 specific items for decision/approval or...
    Transport Blog | 29-09
  • Labour not “part of the communities we live in”
    Labour leadership aspirant Grant Robertson told a blunt truism to Kathryn Ryan on Radio New Zealand the Monday after the election. “Politics has to be about more than elections,” he said. “It has to about being part of the communities...
    Colin James | 29-09
  • The mystifying rise of Jacinda Ardern
    As Labour’s leadership debacle lurches nowhere fast, the only winner thus far appears to be Jacinda Ardern. A One News poll (or what One News sometimes likes to call a poll, despite it being a self-selecting online survey. Please, just leave the...
    Occasionally erudite | 29-09
  • The mystifying rise of Jacinda Ardern
    As Labour’s leadership debacle lurches nowhere fast, the only winner thus far appears to be Jacinda Ardern. A One News poll (or what One News sometimes likes to call a poll, despite it being a self-selecting online survey. Please, just leave the...
    Occasionally erudite | 29-09
  • “Unless you can perform miracles, it’s time to go David”
    To be honest, I haven’t really had time to keep up with the volumes that has already been written regarding the (current lack of) leadership of the New Zealand Labour Party. One piece that has however caught my eye is...
    Progress report | 29-09
  • How sustainable is New Zealand?
    Behavioural economics is not a complete theory but it demonstrates that we are not the economic rational being usually assumed in economics theory. One of the most troubling divergences is that we make time-inconsistent decisions so our short run choices...
    Pundit | 29-09
  • The Labour leadership meltdown continues
    Over the weekend, I road tripped it down to Wellington, where I had a beer with a pollster, briefly checked on what announcement Cunliffe had made mid-Saturday afternoon, and then proceeded to ignore politics. Fine wine and convivial company was far...
    Occasionally erudite | 29-09
  • Hold fast to your Mana – Harawira
    Hone Harawira today called on the voters of Tai Tokerau to hold fast to their mana, and not be dictated to by those party leaders who have ganged together to tell them how to vote. “I call on our people...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Media Advisory – Interview availability
    This is to advise all media that Hone Harawira will be available in Auckland tomorrow, Friday the 19th of September from 7am to 4pm for interviews relating to his recent press releases. If you are interested in interviewing Mr Harawira on...
    Mana | 18-09
  • Labour stands on proud record on Suffrage Day
    Women have come a long way in the 121 years since New Zealand became the first country to give them the vote on September 19 1893, but there is still more to do, Labour’s Women’s Affairs spokesperson Carol Beaumont says....
    Labour | 18-09
  • Polling Booths asked to treat Maori voters with respect
    “Polling booths without Maori roll voting papers, Maori people not being offered assistance to vote, people getting sent from Whangarei to Wellsford to vote, Maori people getting turned away from voting because they didn’t have their ‘easy vote’ card, Maori...
    Mana | 17-09
  • Aussie Liberals embroiled in Key campaign
    John Key needs to explain why Australia’s Liberal Party is interfering in New Zealand domestic politics and is encouraging Kiwi voters across the ditch to vote for National just days out from the election, Labour’s campaign spokesperson Annette King says....
    Labour | 17-09
  • The MANA Plan for Beneficiaries and Income in Waiariki
    Median Personal Income for Waiariki is $21,700. Over 13,000 Maori who live in Waiariki rely upon a form of government benefit including the Unemployment Benefit, Sickness Benefit, Domestic Purpose Benefit and the Invalids Benefit. “If you’re lucky enough to have...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Māori development crucial to New Zealand’s future
    Labour recognises the concern of Māori about child poverty and the rising costs of living, and in Government will make a real difference to the wellbeing of whānau and iwi, Labour’s Māori Affairs spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta says. “As our Māori...
    Labour | 16-09
  • MAORI PARTY – DON’T COMPLAIN … WALK
    “If the Maori Party are serious about stopping government spying on NZ citizens then they should tell the Prime Minister to either stop doing it or they will walk away” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira, on...
    Mana | 16-09
  • JOHN KEY SUPPORTING LABOUR
    “There is something really sick about a National Party Prime Minister coming out in support of a Labour candidate” said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira, after hearing that John Key is urging voters to back Labour in...
    Mana | 16-09
  • SHUT DOWN THIS GOVT NOT KAITI WINZ – Nikora
    “I’m going to make it as hard for you to get help as I can” is Paula Bennett’s message to the people of Kaiti  said MANA candidate Te Hāmua Nikora today in response to the news that National will close...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Winegums make for better polling – Harawira
    I wanted to laugh when I saw the Native Affairs poll the other night (Hone Harawira 38%, Kelvin Davis 37%) because it was almost the same as the one they did back in 2011”, said MANA leader and Tai Tokerau...
    Mana | 16-09
  • The Leadership of MTS Lied – Harawira
    “Normally I’m happy to tell people that I was right but when I received the news about the staff cuts at Maori Television, I had nothing but sympathy for the three Maori media leaders who are going to be made...
    Mana | 16-09
  • Privileges Complaint Laid against Prime Minister – Harawira
    MANA Movement Leader and Te Tai Tokerau MP Hone Harawira has today lodged a Privileges Complaint with the Speaker regarding the Prime Ministers denials in parliament that he knew anything about Kim Dotcom before 2012. “Information made public today appears...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Sharples’ new appointments are out of order
    The new appointments to the Waitangi Tribunal announced by Dr Pita Sharples this morning are completely out of order given the election is just five days away, says Labour's State Services spokesperson, Maryan Street. “This Government continues to show disdain...
    Labour | 15-09
  • MANA Movement Housing Policy
    “When families are living in cars, garages, cockroach-infested caravans and three families to a house then we have a housing crisis”, said MANA leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira. “When you have a housing crisis for low-income...
    Mana | 15-09
  • Bigger than the Foreshore and Seabed – Sykes
    “Over the past week I have received some disturbing information that has led myself and a number of Maori lawyers to conclude that this National - Maori Party - ACT and United Future Government are going to put an end to both...
    Mana | 14-09
  • MANA wants Te Reo Māori petition fulfilled
    Hone Harawira, MANA Leader and MP for Te Tai Tokerau Annette Sykes, MANA candidate for Waiariki Te Hāmua Nikora, MANA candidate for Ikaroa Rāwhiti  “More than four decades have passed and the petition calling for Te Reo Māori in schools...
    Mana | 14-09
  • Primary focus on the critical issues
    A Labour Government will prioritise New Zealand’s agricultural sectors by recreating a Rural Affairs Minister and appointing a Primary Industry Council and a Chief Agricultural Adviser. Releasing Labour’s Primary Sector and Rural Affairs policies today, spokesperson Damien O’Connor says the...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Maori Television fears confirmed – Harawira
    ...
    Mana | 12-09
  • More ghost houses from National
    The Government’s desperate pre-election announcement of more ghost houses won’t fool Aucklanders wanting action on the housing crisis, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “These are ghost houses, to go with National’s ghost tax cut. Families cannot live in ghost...
    Labour | 12-09
  • National bows to union pressure over travel time
    National has reluctantly bowed to pressure from unions and adopted Labour’s fair and sensible policy to pay home support workers for the time they spend traveling between clients, Labour’s Associate Health spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “This decision is long overdue...
    Labour | 12-09
  • Predators on Poverty – Harawira
    “As poverty has ballooned out of control, the Predators on Poverty have emerged to suck the lifeblood from whole families and communities” said MANA Movement leader and Tai Tokerau MP, Hone Harawira. “They are deliberately targeting low-income areas, particularly those...
    Mana | 11-09
  • MANA Movement Policy Launch
    Predators on Poverty (pokie machines, alcohol outlets and loan sharks) 1pm, Thursday 11th September Corner Great South Road and Criterion Street Otahuhu Shopping Centre...
    Mana | 10-09
  • Party members and affiliates – the real losers in Labour’s leadership f...
    Hey, wanna do a back room deal that cuts the members and affiliates out? Cunliffe must be reeling. He has lost failed Ilam candidate James Dann. It must cut as deep as the loss of Steve Gibson. Apart from providing Claire...
    The Daily Blog | 30-09
  • Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, the election res...
    Jeremy Wells’ Mike Hosking rant on Radio Hauraki: Today, the election result...
    The Daily Blog | 30-09
  • The rich get richer
    Nobel prize winner Paul Krugman highlights the growing inequality in this article in the New York Times. The left wing slogan that the “the rich get richer” is a fact of almost perverse power. The most recent period of expansion in the...
    The Daily Blog | 30-09
  • A brief word on reinvading Iraq
    So after telling the country before the election that NZ would not send forces to Iraq, lo and behold now he’s won the election with a full spectrum dominance political majority, Key is suddenly now looking to join the re-invasion of...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • A brief word on the importance of ACT, Maori Party and United Future to Nat...
    I’m a far right wing clown who attacks tax money going on anything collective, gimmie some cash and privilege.  One of the great successes of National has been to implement hard right policy but have it sold as moderate. For some NZers,...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • Labour’s Angst
    Was Labour’s predictably low vote David Cunliffe’s fault? Was it policy? Was it something else that has aroused perceptions of electoral carnage? My analysis of the numbers suggests that, as uncertain voters made up their minds, there was a late...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • Information wars: Gaza as “the last taboo”, the threat of mass surveill...
    “When the truth is replaced with silence” wrote the soviet dissident Yevgeni Yevtushenko, “the silence is a lie.” There has been a silence these past months full of noise, static and sound bites of those in power justifying their violence,...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • When the media say they covered Dirty Politics – did they?
    I was watching The Nation in the weekend, and watched the defenders of NZ media up against Minto telling him he was wrong in his claims of media bias and that the media covered Dirty Politics. I laughed. When the...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • GUEST BLOG – P Campbell – To the Left with love
    A week after the general election results I feel wrung out emotionally, having been through the disappointment, depression and anger of seeing  another right wing government elected overwhelmingly by winning support from the parts of NZ that will never benefit...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – I will be the new Labour Leader!
    One week after the election, while I was still waiting to be consulted about contributing to the review on what went wrong, what do you know? There is a leadership challenge. So instead of opting for a united, thoughtful and...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Pat O’Dea – A Prescient Post
    A very prescient pre-election post by Martyn Bradbury tells us why the Labour Party are at war now. “The NZ First-Labour Party attack strategy against Internet MANA better work” Despite Martyn Bradbury warning them this Right Wing strategy “Better Work”...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Curwen Rolinson – W(h)ither Labour (!/?)
    There’s an old saying that success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. Not so in the Labour Party, wherein soul-crushing defeat on a scale unseen since 1925 definitely has many fathers (and more than a few mothers and...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • At the end of the day…
    At the end of the day…...
    The Daily Blog | 29-09
  • Cynicism towards Key’s sudden desire to help children in poverty
    Cynicism towards Key’s sudden desire to help children in poverty...
    The Daily Blog | 28-09
  • Internet MANA the election and the media
    I’ve been very critical of media reporting of Internet MANA during the election campaign and not surprised at the predictable response from representatives of the corporate media establishment. I wasn’t going to carry this further but was asked at the...
    The Daily Blog | 28-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Rachel Jones – A superficial discourse analysis of a superfic...
    On Sunday there was a story about Paddy Gower and his detached retina in the Herald on Sunday. Really? I hear you ask. Really? Yes, really. Pam Corkery will have sprayed toast crumbs over her dressing gown. The reporter has become...
    The Daily Blog | 28-09
  • Terrorising Australia’s Muslim population
    We should be suspicious when 800 police conduct “terror” raids across Australia, but only one person is charged with a relevant terrorism offence (of which we know few details). We should be suspicious of the lurid tales of terrorists planning...
    The Daily Blog | 28-09
  • Another Labour leader has resigned and as per usual, the media lost its min...
    Another Labour leader has resigned and as per usual, the media lost its mind. I know the Labour party has its problems and I’m not even going to try to prescribe what should be done about it. But what I...
    The Daily Blog | 28-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Anjum Rahman – Loyalty, Leadership and the Labour Party
    My first after the election and I can only say I’m feeling pretty sad.  It was a terrible result, and feels even more so knowing the number of volunteers hours, hard work & sacrifice made by so many people who...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • A Study in Party Stability
    . In terms of long-term stability, one party above stands above all others, with the exception of personality-driven groups such as NZ First and United Future. That party is the Greens. If the Labour Party wants to look elsewhere for...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • Cunliffe vs Robertson – Round 2
    Much to the disappointment of the NZ Herald and other right wing pundits who have decided they would like to appoint the next Labour leader, Cunliffe has surprised by deciding to damn the Caucus and appeal directly to the members...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • The tasks before the left and labour movement
    Anyone on the left would have been disappointed at the result of the election. There was an opportunity to win, but that got lost through a combination of factors. There were tactical decisions made by Labour, the Greens and Internet-Mana...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • From Fiji’s dictatorship to ‘democracy’ – the AUT student team on t...
    Mads Anneberg’s profile on Ricardo Morris and Repúblika. David Robie also blogs at Café Pacific. THREE STUDENTS from AUT University covered Fiji’s historic “from dictatorship to democracy” general election this month. While the election arguably legitimised Voreqe Bainimarama’s so-called 2006...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • David Cunliffe Resigns As Labour Leader – Forces Robertson Out of the Bel...
    David Cunliffe has made a smart move, resigning as the leader of the Labour Party so as to force a leadership primary campaign. The move draws rival Grant Robertson out of the beltway to parts of the country where he...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • Deep thought vs Deep prejudice
    . . This letter to the editor appeared in The Listener, on 27 September, and caught my attention; . . Mr Dawson wrote in response to one of those typically unthinking comments which  condemned the poor for their “unbridled, reckless...
    The Daily Blog | 27-09
  • The NZ National voters elected
    The NZ National voters elected...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kate Davis – The post election postmortem is giving me post p...
    I feel the need to contribute to the discourse. This is a new experience for me. Not having an opinion, but expressing it on a popular forum in a public sphere. That’s why I have waited till now and put...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • A dictionary of education terms and definitions, brought to you by the let...
    Free to all TDB readers, please enjoy your very own cut-out-and-keep handy primer of terms that I predict you will need to know over the next three years… Achievement Gap (noun) Synonym for wealth gap. ACT (abstract noun) Intangible. Reported to exist in...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • A Mines Rescue brigadesman’s perspective on the Pike River Mine
    My husband and I lived in Greymouth in 2010, we were a coal mining family.  The day Pike River Mine blew up and the days following changed us profoundly, as it did for so many.  This is a Mines Rescue...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • The Left Triumphant! A Counterfactual History of the Last Twelve Months.
    DID IT REALLY HAVE TO END LIKE THIS? Reading through the commentary threads of the left-wing blogs it is impossible to not feel the anger; the sense of betrayal; the impression of having had something vital ripped from their grasp;...
    The Daily Blog | 26-09
  • GUEST BLOG – Myles Thomas: The media won it!
    Make no mistake, John Key is a clever communicator – reasonable, authoritative and relaxed – but without the media he wouldn’t be PM. Depending on your viewpoint, New Zealand’s news media are either a bunch of Grey Lynn lefties or...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Not Learning Lessons Past: the West’s Response to IS
    In an earlier posting Ukraine, United Kingdom, Ireland, Scotland, I noted that the first lesson of conflict learned by Robert McNamara was “understand your adversary”. If we have honourable objectives, our first and most important weapon is empathy. In the Vietnam War,...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Dr Jarrod Gilbert – Proof of David Farrar’s deception: my ...
    In the lead up to the election the Minister of Corrections Anne Tolley launched a gang policy. In order to justify the government’s approach she used gang figures that overstated the gang problem. Not by a little bit, but a...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • SPECIAL FEATURE: Stuart Nash – Red To The Rescue?
    SPECIAL FEATURE by Selwyn Manning. IF THE ELECTION RESULT which was dished out to Labour was not enough to incite an immediate leadership primary, then the caucus’ refusal to recognise David Cunliffe as the leader should cement it. Now is...
    The Daily Blog | 25-09
  • Has the one party state crackdown begun already? Left wing NZ activist grou...
    Well known left wing activist social media group, ‘John Key Has Left Down NZ’ has been shut down on Facebook. At 11.40pm last night, Facebook, without any warning shut the group down siting a breach of terms of service as...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Why Cunliffe should probably just let Nash & Robertson win
    We have to face some very unpalatable home truths. If you are a left wing political person, best you put your vote now to the Green Party, although you’ll have to do that all the while the Greens frantically tell you...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • The graceless win of Kelvin Davis
    The graceless win of Cameron Slater’s mate in the North, Kelvin Davis is difficult to swallow. Here Cameron Slater’s mate in the North is shitting on Hone Harawira by calling Hone all steam, no hangi as Kelvin rubs his ganged up win into...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So Labour shifted too far to the left?
    So Labour shifted too far to the left?   Here’s the ill-judged view of Josie Pagani in the Pundit “Labour must change”: “At the last election I made myself a heretic when I wrote a column mentioning how unpopular the...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • Uncomplicated Loyalties: Why Cunliffe and the Labour Left Cannot Win
    THE STORY of David Cunliffe’s leadership of the Labour Party has been one of missed opportunities and unforced errors. That he was the only choice available to those who wanted to rid the Labour Party of its neoliberal cuckoos is...
    The Daily Blog | 24-09
  • So we can expect this now?
    So we can expect this now?...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Can Labour be saved? Why Whaleoil & National won and why we need a new ...
    As the shock of my optimism that NZers would recoil from the real John Key as exposed by Dirty Politics and mass surveillance duplicities wears off, I am surprised to find that the right in NZ are not content with...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Three more years (up shit creek and paddling hard)
    “If the future is not green, there is no future. If the future is not you, there is no future”. Emma Thompson’s stirring words to the climate marchers in London last Sunday are worth considering in the aftermath of the...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • One Party State
    In years to come this election will be seen as a historic turning point towards one party rule. I don`t mean this literally, absolute single party dictatorship is not in prospect. In the New Zealand context though, one party has...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • No More. The Left Falls.
    . We cannot be beaten down Because we are down already. We can only rise up and if you should beat us down, We will rise again. And again. And again… And when you tire of beating us down, We...
    The Daily Blog | 23-09
  • Hang tight everyone – Marama Davidson campaign reflection
    To the many people who had expressed their overwhelming support for me to enter Parliament this election – thank you. That the Greens held steady in a big loss for progressive politics is an achievement. We are hopeful that after...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA
    New flag for NZ once Key signs TPPA...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • Reflecting on Elections Past
    There are a number of past elections that can give the left in New Zealand guidance and hope. Two major points though. Major parties require leaders who can bridge the political divide through strength of personality, vision of what it...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • GUEST BLOG: Kelly Ellis – The Reptile Room
    I stress, at the outset, that I’ve got nothing against reptiles. Some of my best friends are reptiles. Some say I am one, but I’m not really. I just emulate that ability to sit, stationary for hours in court, eyes...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • The success of right-wing counter messaging in the election
    One of the reasons National won the election was due to its success in counter messaging – and the way so many media commentators ran with th the right-wing spin. Here are some examples. Dirty Politics The original message was...
    The Daily Blog | 22-09
  • New Flag competition
    New Flag competition...
    The Daily Blog | 21-09
  • Submissions sought on herbicide for weed control in maize
    The Environmental Protection Authority is calling for submissions on a herbicide to improve broadleaf weed control in maize. The substance CADET contains 100g fluthiacet-methyl in the form of an emulsifiable concentrate and would contain a new active ingredient...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Jesse Mulligan Lives Below Poverty Line
    Jesse Mulligan Lives Below Poverty Line TV personality Jesse Mulligan will live on the equivalent of the extreme poverty line this October in order to raise awareness of sex trafficking. Mulligan will survive on $2.25 for his food from October...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Narratives from the 2014 Election: What do we learn?
    Narratives from the 2014 Election: What do we learn? - Sue Bradford, Russell Brown & Kirk Serpes discuss....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Voices from Oceania to speak out on climate change
    Voices from Oceania to speak out on climate change at launch of Pacific environment report...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Changes to Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre messages
    The Ministry of Civil Defence & Emergency Management advises that while changes to Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre messages come into effect from today (Wednesday 1 October), the Ministry has been, and remains, the authoritative voice for tsunami...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Police remove banner at Statoil Offices in Wellington
    Oil Free Wellington hung a banner at 9:30 this morning at the Statoil office headquarters in Wellington as the Petroleum Summit opened in Auckland. The banner, which read 'Statoil out of Northland: Stop Deep Sea Oil', has now been removed...
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Mixed massages raise concerns
    Mixed massages raise concerns for Te Taumata Kaumatua Ngapuhi nui tonu, and Te Wakaminenga O nga Hapu Ngapuhi....
    Scoop politics | 01-10
  • Union Slams Port Boss’s Pay Rise
    The Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) says Lyttelton Port CEO Peter Davie’s 18% wage rise, taking his pay packet to $1.24m, is unjustified and inflammatory. ‘Lyttelton port has an appalling health and safety record, with three deaths on...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Prisons expert Ron Nikkel to speak in Auckland October 15
    Prison Fellowship NZ and JustSpeak have the privilege of hosting the former president of Prison Fellowship International, Ron Nikkel....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Hundreds of educators protest IES in Rotorua
    Four hundred educators from around the country took their opposition to the Government's controversial Investing in Educational Success policy to the public today....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Crime drops by 3.2 % in the 2013 / 2014 financial year
    Criminal offences dropped by 3.2 % in the last financial year according to figures released today through Statistics New Zealand....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Narratives from the 2014 Election: what do we learn?
    I would like to invite you to a Fabians Reflection on "Dirty Politics, Dotcom and Labour’s worst result" with Colin James, Keith Ng, Stephanie Rodgers and Richard Harman. They will provide a debrief of analysis and lessons from the 2014...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Oil Free Wellington drops banner from Statoil headquarters
    Today members of Oil Free Wellington have targeted the offices of Statoil, by attaching a banner reading 'Statoil out of Northland: Stop Deep Sea Oil' to the entrance of Vodafone on the Quay Midland Park, where Statoil's New Zealand office...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Media Statement from Karen Price
    “After a period of intense media attention and scrutiny of our family, I set up and used an anonymous Twitter account over the weekend and made a number of comments that I deeply regret....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Greenpeace disrupts Simon Bridges’ speech to oil industry
    Greenpeace activists have disrupted the opening speech by Energy and Resources Minister Simon Bridges at the Petroleum Summit in Auckland this morning....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • New Zealand Red Cross Responds to Drought in Tonga
    New Zealand Red Cross has sent an aid worker and two desalination units, to turn seawater into safe drinking water in the drought-hit Ha’apai islands of Tonga....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Can you ever tell if an email is real or forged?
    Computer industry veteran Brian Eardley-Wilmot warns that we should never take claims about stolen emails at face value....
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • NZ MPs to attend the ASPG Annual Conference in Sydney
    New Zealand MPs to attend the Australasian Study of Parliament Group Annual Conference in Sydney...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Independent Maori seats still needed in Parliament
    “He’s got to be joking!” is the reaction of the president of the Maori Party, Rangimarie Naida Glavish to a call by a former Labour Minister of Maori Affairs, Dover Samuels, for debate by Maori on whether the Maori electorates...
    Scoop politics | 30-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    Rallies supporting the rights for universal suffrage will take place all over New Zealand today and tomorrow...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand
    Trout Mass-Poisoned in New Zealand The Graf Boys New Zealand has some of the best trout fishing in the world! Every year thousands of international visitors wade pristine rivers in search of the freshwater game fish....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New Zealand’s 2014 Hottest Vegetarians Crowned
    With winter gone things are heating up, and things just got even hotter with the crowning of New Zealand’s hottest vegetarians, says animal advocacy group SAFE. Marking World Vegetarian Day, 1st October, director James Napier Robertson and actor...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • A day to remember our duty to look after our senior citizens
    Human Rights Commissioner Dr Jackie Blue says International Day of the Older Person (1 October) is a United Nations day to celebrate our senior citizens, but also acknowledge the need to protect our kaumatua, or older people from abuse and...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Clear data needed on impact of benefit sanctions on children
    A lack of data on benefit sanctions means there is no way of knowing whether welfare reform is helping or harming children, says Child Poverty Action Group....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The socialist alternative to austerity and war
    Public meeting: After the New Zealand election—the socialist alternative to austerity and war By Tom Peters 29 September 2014...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • New recruits to boost border protection
    Twenty six new recruits began an intensive nine-week training course in Auckland today that will see them graduate as Customs officers in time for the busy summer season....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Dwindling Mallard population shows up ‘pest’ myth
    The pro hunting organisation Fish & Game is researching the causes of the decline of the mallard duck population, upset at the prospect of fewer ducks to kill....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Support for Democratic Rights in Hong Kong
    New Zealanders in Auckland will gather on Wednesday to support the rights for universal suffrage in Hong Kong....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Campbell Live Exclusive Interview with David Cunliffe
    David Cunliffe resigned as leader of the Labour party on Saturday; but he still wants the top job....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Action needed on cycling safety
    “Clearly we aren't doing enough to protect the 1.5 million New Zealanders who ride bikes,” said Mr Morgan....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • World Rivers Day Passes Without A Whimper
    Sunday 28 September was World Rivers Day to celebrate clean, flowing rivers and caring about them. But a recreation-conservation advocacy the Council of Outdoor Recreation Associations of NZ (CORANZ) says the day seems to have slipped by without...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • The Kiwifruit Claim: Q&A
    1. Who is running The Kiwifruit Claim? The Kiwifruit Claim was founded by kiwifruit growers representing well in excess of 10% of the industry. 2. Why are you running this claim? The introduction of Psa into New Zealand had devastating...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Fed Farmers Need to Be Weaned
    The Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Federated Farmers to make a firm commitment to reject any future Government funding, after it was revealed that the lobby group had received over $200,000 of payments in recent years....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Children paying the price for charter school stitch up
    New Zealand children will be paying a high price for a one-seat deal between ACT and National, with an expansion of the beleaguered charter school system says education union NZEI Te Riu Roa....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Hikoi From North Reaches Oil Conference Tomorrow
    Today: The Hikoi opposing Statoil plans for seismic testing and deep sea oil drilling has marched through Dargaville and later be welcomed to Piringatahi Marae, West Harbour,Tamaki Makaurau/Auckland....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Communities Still Count
    The efforts of many organisations to influence the electorate and the political parties they voted for in the lead up to the 2014 Election is over. The voting public has spoken and provided a strong endorsement to the centre-right National...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Eleven social enterprises get ready to take off
    Eleven teams from across the country will take part in the Launchpad, Ākina’s programme to get social enterprise ideas off the ground....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • An open letter to the Prime Minister
    in which Transparency International New Zealand asks the Prime Minister to ensure integrity underpins all work he leads "in the best interests of all New Zealanders"...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Paula Bennett ‘great work’ acknowledged – McVicar
    “Paula Bennett, as Minister of Social Development, has contributed significantly in lowering our crime rate and preventing further victims.” - McVicar...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Key’s Restraint in Propping up ACT Welcomed
    The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming the announcement that ACT MP David Seymour will not be appointed as a Minister....
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • Only Concession is from the Taxpayer
    Responding to the confidence and supply agreement reached between John Key and Peter Dunne’s United Future Party, Taxpayers’ Union Executive Director Jordan Williams says:...
    Scoop politics | 29-09
  • A Tent for Any Tenant
    AUT students and Salvation Army Manukau Community Ministries team up to raise awareness, as South Auckland’s housing situation moves from crisis to collapse...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Cycle Safety Panel Draft Report Seeks Comments
    The Cycle Safety Panel Draft Report and Recommendations was published on 25th September 2014 and the panel are inviting comments. Lucinda Rees from NZ School Speeds, the organisation campaigning for consistent speed limits outside schools, is encouraged...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Labour’s Review – Terms of Reference Agreed
    Labour's Review - Terms of Reference Agreed Following a meeting of its ruling New Zealand Council yesterday, Labour has released the terms of reference for the comprehensive review initiated following its 2014 election result. The review will comprise three...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • The final countdown for Kiwi smokers
    There are just two days left until many smokers stubb out their cigarettes for the last time and embark on Stoptober – New Zealand’s first national quit-smoking month....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • “In A Democracy People Win And People Lose”
    “In A Democracy People Win And People Lose” – Chris Hipkins Labour Senior Whip I would say to all of the caucus and all of the members let's actually hear the arguments from the people who want to be leader,...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Campaign to make Murder of Unborn ”Safe and Legal”
    The IPPF have launched an international campaign through its 161 affiliates including the New Zealand Family Planning Association [NZFPA] to make the murder of the unborn safe and legal and accepted as a human right. This is an acceleration of...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Grant Robertson Labour leader hopeful on TVNZ Q+A
    “Look I think what we need to be is relevant, clear and consistent with New Zealanders about the Labour Party's values,” said Labour leader hopeful Grant Robertson on TVNZ’s Q+A programme....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Labour Needs to Get House in Order Before Deciding Leader
    Ex Labour party leader and possible repeat contender David Shearer says the Labour Party is going about the post-election period in the wrong way....
    Scoop politics | 28-09
  • Hate merchants at it again with smear tactics
    “It’s disappointing to see the hate merchants at it again with yet another attempt to smear and silence a health professional who’s doing research they disagree with,” says Ian Powell, Executive Director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists...
    Scoop politics | 28-09
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