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Drunken Seaman John Key: borrowed $40 billion in 3 years to spend on his mates

Written By: - Date published: 8:45 am, November 3rd, 2011 - 222 comments
Categories: accountability, campaigning, debt / deficit, economy, election 2011, john key, leadership, national - Tags: , ,

You show me the money John boy. You’ve racked up record levels of debt, created record levels of unemployment, and earned us a double credit downgrade.

What have you got to show for burdening the next three generations of New Zealanders with debt?

hattip William Joyce

222 comments on “Drunken Seaman John Key: borrowed $40 billion in 3 years to spend on his mates”

  1. Tribeless 1

    Completely agree the government shouldn’t be borrowing. But regarding who it is borrowing for, remind me again who pays the taxes that have to fund 100% of public debt and the welfare state?

    And have you heard of the global financial crisis (of crony capitalism) and Big States over-reaching themselves?

    • who pays the taxes that have to fund 100% of public debt and the welfare state?

      certainly not those who’ve benefited the most from Key’s tax cuts

      • Tribeless 1.1.1

        And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much?

        Again, do we at least accept on this blog that 100% of government is ultimately funded by the tax payer?

        And then once you get there, you must be uncomfortable with these facts:

        1) 44% of households take more from the tax system than they put into it.

        2) 10% of households fund 71% of taxation.

        3) 17% of households fund 97% of taxation.

        4) 23% of all babies born in 2010 were in a family (including single parent) reliant on a direct benefit by the end of the first year of life. (That’s a quarter of new born babies in families living entirely on welfare – and that doesn’t include the ‘soft’ redistribution of Working for Families, etc, just the hard benefits, DPB, Sickness …)

        Hardly seems fair to businesses does it. A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.

        • Lanthanide 1.1.1.1

          Are these numbers from Farrar’s completely flawed and debunked magical cumulative taxation chart that somehow have only the top income earners paying net tax?

          • felix 1.1.1.1.1

            Yes.

              • Tribeless

                Direct from Bill English via Hansard:

                Quote:

                Michael Woodhouse: Which groups now pay most of the tax collected by the Government?

                Hon BILL ENGLISH: Our tax and transfer system is highly redistributive, and the number of people paying income tax is surprisingly small. The lowest-income 43 percent of households currently receive more in income support than they pay in income tax. The 1.3 million households with incomes under $110,000 a year collectively pay no net tax—that is, their total income support payments match their combined income tax. The top 10 percent of households contribute over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers—over 70 percent of income tax, net of transfers. This system is highly redistributive and we believe it is fair.

                • Bunji

                  Bill’s a wizz with statistics! It’s just a shame about reality.

                  The top 10 percent pay 70 percent of income tax IF those households on less than $110k don’t “pay tax” they just transfer their money to those on the dole, DPB, WFF etc. So we can all be grateful to the wealthy for paying for our schools and hospitals, while those on middle incomes can feel resentful about how all their money is frittered away on useless bludgers.

                  At least that’s the angle Bill’s going for. It’s a shame that reality doesn’t divide tax up like that for him and we all put into one big pot to pay for all the necessities of a civilised society. Quite a number of us on less than $110k do in fact “pay tax”.

                  If Bill spent a bit less time on statistics and a bit more time on the economy, it might not be such a mess.

                • Hayden

                  LOLWUT?

                  I earn around 100,000 p.a., pay roughly 30,000 p.a. in income tax, and receive no income support, (two adults with two children), so I’m quite surprised to find that in fact I pay no income tax at all. Or am I reading that wrong?

                • KJT

                  Income tax.

                  Add up the other taxes. Like power company dividends to Government, Petrol taxes, GST etc etc etc. Most are strongly regressive in their effect.

                  Which is why BS artists like Farrar and English only count income tax.

        • pollywog 1.1.1.2

          A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.

          WORD…FUCK CORPORATE GREED !!!

          CRASH THE BANKS

        • felix 1.1.1.3

          “And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much? “

          For several decades labour productivity has been rising while real wages have remained static or gone backwards. This is a worldwide trend since the dawn of neoliberalism and NZ is no exception. http://thecurrentmoment.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/productivity-inequality-poverty/

          If you were genuinely concerned about the the WFF subsidy to employers and about widening the tax base you’d be arguing for higher wages.

        • framu 1.1.1.4

          “Again, do we at least accept on this blog that 100% of government is ultimately funded by the tax payer?”

          what about the dividends returned from our most profitable publicly held assets?

        • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.5

          Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s Superman to the rescue! 
           
          Any explanation for the complete failure of 30 years of Randian economics to deliver results for the majority, Tribeless? Nah, didn’t think so. Let me help you out. Neo-liberalism is the tiny minority exploiting the vast majority under the false flag of freedom. It’s history, pal, the world has moved on from greed is good, apart from small outbreaks of circle jerking in our universities and the sadder cafes in Parnell.

          • Tribeless 1.1.1.5.1

            Crony capitalism is to capitalism (laissez faire) as sea horses are to horses.

            So, where’s the Randian economics? Since the 1930’s Keynesian socialism has ruled, and the chickens are now coming home to roost in West.

            The welfare state was always a cruel illusion.

            • KJT 1.1.1.5.1.1

              History has proved Keynes was correct. It is a pity more notice is not taken.

              Neo-Liberals have to re-write history to debunk him.

              In the meantime the shift towards neo-liberal economics has been a total failure.

              Unless you are the few who get excessive profits from it. I suppose for those people it is a howling success.

              • Tribeless

                Why do the left have so much trouble with reality. The multiplier is less than one: look at the US and Europe. What caused the asset bubbles that burst in 2008? Keynesian economics.

                Here’s a good quotation from Cafe Hayek to explain the problem with Keynes:

                http://cafehayek.com/2011/10/drunk-with-keynesian-prejudices.html

                The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, borrowing and lending, and spending it is only resolved by increases in confidence, borrowing and lending, and spending.

                It’s just as if a drunk, waking up severely hung-over, proclaims to his wife

                The central irony of my medical crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence in my ability to hold my drink, and by too much drinking, it can only be resolved with more confidence in my ability to hold my drink, and by more drinking. Bottoms up!

                …..

                I recommend reading a good smattering of the articles in the Mises Bailout reader:

                http://mises.org/daily/3128

                But above all, this question is philosophical: the only economic system consistent with liberty of the individual is laissez faire. Everything else is slavery to the State.

                • KJT

                  More counterfactual crap.

                  Try reading Paul Krugman. An economist who actually has some relationship to what actually happened.

                  Laissez faire just ends up with slavery to the few morally bankrupt individuals that have accumulated all the money capital, by cheating.

                  I would rather we have democratic control of our own destiny.

                  • Tribeless

                    Try reading the comprehensive debunking of just about all Krugman’s output:

                    http://krugman-in-wonderland.blogspot.com/

                  • Tribeless

                    And ‘democratic control of our own destiny’ is an oxymoron, given democracy is a tyranny of the majority.

                    For example, assume there are 10 people in a democracy, 7 white people and 3 black. The democracy holds a plebiscite on the motion that white people shouldn’t have to work, and they are legally entitled to live off the efforts of black people. The motion is won 7 to 3: black people by majority vote in the democracy are now legally enslaved.

                    No liberty to be found here. Liberty can only be found by protecting the smallest of all minorities: the individual, via constitution in a libertarian styled minarchy.

                    • Pardon?

                      How about not reducing ‘democracy’ to a show of hands? Isn’t it ‘rule by the people [demos]’?

                      Or, if you prefer, “Government by the people, of the people, for the people”.

                      ‘Show of hands’ democracy is simply an individualistic, emaciated rendering of something much more profound. 

                      I suppose if you can only think individualistically then democracy would simply amount to majority rule.

                      Ideally, democracy is more like an organised ‘marketplace’, if you like, where people come together to discuss, debate and decide. It implies a strong faith, ironically enough, in the idea that the best decisions come out of interactions between individuals but at the collective level rather than at the level of the individual (this, in fact, aligns with research on the relative merits of group versus individual decision making).

                      The conflict between laissez faire capitalism and democracy is between the arena within which such free interaction should be prioritised.

                      I think it should be in the political arena, first and foremost; you think it should be in the economic arena, first and foremost.

                    • Tribeless

                      No. It’s not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions. The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                    • NickS

                      /facepalm

                      I heart brainless libertarians that use strawman arguments about modern democracies and show an understanding of human social systems and behaviours that makes ASD people look normal in comparison.

                      Calling modern democracies “teh tyranny of the majority” ignores the fact that none of the groups active in democracies are monolithic, in short even if you have a party with 51% of the vote/seats, some members will break away if the party leadership attempts things individual legislators/whatever find immoral/antidemocratic/illegal etc etc. Then there the judicial branch which can shit-can laws etc on the basis of constitutional, legislative or prior precedence issues. Further more, public protests from minority groups can quite easily sway politicians (depending on the issue + how much noise they make), and the legislature is more than capable of passing laws without public support, say for example making homosexuality/abortion/civil unions legal, particularly on human rights angles in liberal/semi-liberal democracies. In effect, unless it’s a coup situation, it’s very difficult for any form of tyranny of a majority to exist, as there multiple interactions occurring in western democracies. Even in republic systems like the USA, where money is exceedingly useful to drive law changes and so has eroded the democratic system somewhat, fucking over all but a small minority of Americans.

                      As for your example, it’s laughably naive and ignores completely theory of mind, but also the role of resistance and violence (particularly monopolies when dealing with state level actors) amongst other things.

                      Though I shouldn’t expect more from someone who lives in a magical land where reality is perfectly ignorable when it clashes with teh words of a authority figure, much like the old-school stalinists/communists/trotsky-ites.

                    • NickS

                      No. It’s not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions. The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                      PolSci101 fail detected. Please retake 2nd year+ papers on governments and history therein of and philosophies and a side of anthropology history focusing on tribal leaderhship structures.

                    • Ari

                      Your example is incredibly facetious and ignores the fact that there might well be solidarity between white and black people, so that the vote wouldn’t go 3/7 even if you consider democracy to always be majoritarian voting, which most of us here do not.

                    • The State doesn’t work on a voluntary basis: it works by brute force.

                      I was talking about democracy, not the State. My understanding is that the nation state arose to impose and enforce capitalism (and trade between capitalists) as the dominant economic system. 

                      It’s [i.e., democracy’s] not a market place, that implies voluntary transactions.

                      Democracy does imply voluntary transactions (of ideas, arguments, etc.) – it is principally defined as debate and decision making as equals; hence, how can equals enforce involvement in debate and discussion or force someone to ‘transact’ one idea rather than another??
                      I think that what you might not like is that once a collective decision is reached it then would apply to all participants? (e.g., not to overuse a resource by placing some communal ban on its use beyond a certain point).

                      I think, though, that 90% of that concern arises from people’s sense that they did not have an equal voice in a collective decision (i.e., the decision was made by others and then imposed). That is, the sense of a lack of democracy and hence control.

                      The necessity of living as a social animal is a trade-off. It’s messy and sometimes causes problems; but economic individualism isn’t the solution. 

                    • mik e

                      Tribeless you’ve spelt your name wrong clueless.their is no country other than somalia and a few other countries that run laissez fair economies economies that don’t have a decent welfare state and fair tax system have crashed and burned and are in need of huge bail outs.
                      Stop reading propaganda get some well researched economics then come back and have a reel argument
                      Look at a recent study done in collaboration with the BBC
                      It showed that the higher taxed states grew in this recession in the US thats turning into a depression
                      Lower taxed states are in recession and are moving into long term depression
                      this is because they are not investing in infrastructure education R&D health care which keeps people at work
                      Your just a blind faith idiot who has been sucked in by the cult of Neo Liberal propaganda

            • KJT 1.1.1.5.1.2

              From the 30’s to the 70’s we had reasonable mixed economy.

              Rather too much crony capitalism in NZ. But regulated so as not to be too dysfunctional.

              Since the 80’s Neo-liberal greed has ruled. Worldwide it has caused financial failure, misery and starvation.

              History has proved Keynes was correct. It is a pity more notice is not taken.

              Neo-Liberals have to re-write history to debunk him.

              In the meantime the shift towards neo-liberal economics has been a total failure.

              Unless you are the few who get excessive profits from it. I suppose for those people it is a howling success.

              • Tribeless

                Debunking GFC as being due to de-regulation: again, Cafe Hayek:

                http://cafehayek.com/2011/10/horwitz-on-the-financial-crisis-and-recession.html

                Quoting economist (Austrian) letter to editor – note particularly second and third paragraphs:

                Letters to the Editor
                Watertown Times
                260 Washington St.
                Watertown, NY 13601

                To the Editor,

                In his letter of October 23 criticizing George Will’s column on Elizabeth Warren, Mark MacWilliams of Canton repeats a number of fallacies about the recession and financial crisis that should not go unchallenged.

                MacWilliams refers to Congress deregulating the financial industries but offers no specifics. In fact, since 1980, Congress has passed four new sets of regulations for every one deregulatory act, and between 2001 and 2008, there were nine new sets of regulation and not one bit of deregulation. Those recent regulations included the Basel capital requirements, which created powerful incentives for banks to sell off the mortgages they originated and buy them back as mortgage backed securities, which they otherwise would not have done.

                Contrary to MacWilliams, our current mess was not the result of “predatory capitalism,” but the predictable consequence of government intervention and crony corporatism. Nowhere does he mention the Federal Reserve’s role in pushing interest rates so low that banks were being paid to borrow, nor does he have a word to say about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac having privileged access to the Treasury to buy up all of the questionable mortgages that banks originated. He also ignores two decades of Congress’s role in mandating that banks lend to marginal borrowers.

                MacWilliams needs to ask himself why, if this was really capitalism, banks would make loans to people they thought could not pay them back. If corporations are greedy profit-seekers, why would they risk customers not being able to pay unless they believed that those mortgages could be sold off to government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie and Freddie who would, as they did, get bailed out by the government?

                If all the traffic lights in Watertown were stuck on green, we’d hardly blame the drivers for the ensuing accidents. When government distorts the signals and incentives facing producers and consumers, the blame for the resulting disaster should fall on government not the private sector. The crisis and recession are what happens when you put “people before profits.”

                Finally, MacWilliams should learn who does assure that his toaster doesn’t explode by actually looking at it. He’ll find the stamp of not a government agency, but Underwriters Laboratory, a private firm that provides quality assurance for appliance makers and consumers. Unlike the government cartel of financial rating agencies that failed miserably last decade, the privately operated UL has decades of success behind it.

                Sincerely,

                Steven Horwitz

                • KJT

                  Bullshit.

                  Both the Austrians and the Chicago school have been thoroughly de-bunked by reality.

                  The above is just the banks self justification for their venery. Helped by economists, who should know better, but spent too long trying to get the answers that agreed with their hypothesis without noting their experiment had failed.

                  The GFC had very little to do with Freddie May etc. It was caused by unregulated financial double dealers finding ever more original ways to burgle more money from the system.

                  Ultimately the crash will be because they have taken so much from the system that financial earnings far exceed the productive sectors ability to cover them.

                  • Tribeless

                    I’ve linked you to the Mises Bailout reader so forum members can read for themselves the truth behind Keynesian socialism and it’s necessary crony capitalism: the harm it has done and the Statist slavery at it’s heart.

                    Given that ‘bullshit’ is not a good technical argument, link us all to the ‘thorough’ debunking of the Austrian school (not Chicago) and theory of the business cycle?

                    • Rob

                      Its no point in arguing with KJT. KJT has already explained to us manytimes  that he is an expert in marine disaster recovery , specifically in the area of cold viscous bunker oil transfer.  We now have learnt that KJT is in fact also an international expert on economics theory alongside the other self promoted fields of expertise.  There is nothing KJT does not know. 

                    • clandestino

                      How is me not making 100% on my labour after repaying my employer the cost of their capital investments etc. not THEFT, tribeless??? 

                    • Tribeless

                      Clandesto, what are you talking about? Are you saying someone is forcing you to work with your particular employer?

                      Because that’s the analogy with tax: State coercion and initiation of force.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Don’t be so dimwitted, Tribeless. The force came first: we had to create democratic governance to protect ourselves from thieving banksters in the first place.

                    • Tribeless

                      I always worry about people who used the word ‘governance’. I give you, again, copied from above, the problem with democracy:

                      … assume there are 10 people in a democracy, 7 white people and 3 black. The democracy holds a plebiscite on the motion that white people shouldn’t have to work, and they are legally entitled to live off the efforts of black people. The motion is won 7 to 3: black people by majority vote in the democracy are now legally enslaved.

                      I don’t want to be ‘governanced’ like that. I want the classical liberal society where the State is my servant, protecting me from the initiation of force of others, not our social(alist) democracy in which the State is the chief abuser of my rights through the use of force in pursuing a Gulag of Good Intentions.

                      And the banks are part of the crony capitalist system, not laissez faire, for quite different reasons I have as much against them as you do, and they should never have been bailed out with taxpayer money, and in a capitalist system they would not have been.

                      But liberty. It’s all about that. Hundreds of millions of men and women died fighting for it in the 20th century … There’s a great movie called ‘Lives of Others’: watch it please.

                    • KJT

                      Where do I start.

                      You sound like someone who has just found a few economic “thinkers” who support you in your greed and misconceptions. like Rand, Mises and Friedman.

                      Note that Rand was such a believer in her own bullshit, that she lived off socialist benefits and healthcare for the last third of her life.

                      Try Frier, Keynes, Adam Smith, Schumpeter, for starters. Then get back to me for some more reading.

                    • Tribeless

                      No, KJG, that’s just ad hominem again. Try arguing based on economic facts drawn from the real world.

                    • KJT

                      Been doing that for a while now.

                      http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/

                  • KJT

                    Rob.

                    Pleased to have my brilliance recognised at last.

                    Though my comments on the Rena were from, a large group ,of us currently employed on the NZ coast. Some, because of their employment did not want to make them publicly. So I cannot really claim the credit alone.

            • Galeandra 1.1.1.5.1.3

              Yeah, I hate socialism,too. Welfare-ism sucks.
              Bailing out spendthrift bankers and tax-supporting the third-world style wagebills of tightfisted petit bourgeois capitalists who have no moral or social concern for anyone else.

        • dave brown 1.1.1.6

          “Hardly seems fair to businesses does it. A whole system built on theft, and the thieves still greedily want more and more and more.”

          The system is based on theft but not in the way you think. The systematic theft occurs when capital expropriates surplus value produced by the working class and renames this theft as its ‘profits’. Redistributing some of those profits back to pay for the ‘social wage’ (i.e. state provision of costs of living not met by the market wage) is hardly theft. Its actually a form of re-expropriation of value back to those who produced it in the first place.
          Of the course the right wing will never admit to such systematic theft because that would wipe out any legitimacy claimed by the system instantly.
          Fortunately the system is breaking down under the sheer weight of stockpiled wealth that is not invested productively while the living standards of the creators of wealth plummet. Its called capitalism in crisis. Solution? Revolution.

          • KJT 1.1.1.6.1

            + 1.

            Don’t forget lending back the money required to live, which they took off our earnings in the first place. And charging for it.

          • Tribeless 1.1.1.6.2

            Dave, where do you think the following quantities fit into your prescription:

            80 million.
            60 million.
            20 grams.

            ?

            And I’m not right wing. I’m Objectivist first. I vote Libertarianz second.

            And here’s another great quote from The Rational Capitalist:

            http://dougreich.blogspot.com/2011/10/ows-dogs-chasing-cars.html

            The inability and unwillingness for the left to argue critically for its agenda is a recurring theme that I have blogged about for years. Clearly, a sheer unanimity of angst exists among them related to perceived societal injustices, yet the vaguest sense of cause and effect, context, or solutions does not. The corollary is that they rarely understand or even acknowledge the implications of their own positions. For example, socialism necessitates the initiation of force against innocent people – that is the point of the redistribution of wealth and the abrogation of property rights. However, most will become angry, switch topics or even deny the reality of that logic to the point of denying the facts of history.

            The left chooses not to acknowledge or clarify their demands because it brings into focus the actual political policies necessary to achieve them. And why would that be bad? Because, at root, socialism necessitates the violent transfer of wealth from one group to another group, a rather frightening position to explicitly advocate. Such a program is not only highly impractical, since it leads to stagnation, poverty and misery, but is profoundly immoral as it treats the productive as slaves authorizing the state to perpetrate acts of escalating violence against innocent individuals who want to own the products of their labor.

            • The Voice of Reason 1.1.1.6.2.1

              “And I’m not right wing. I’m Objectivist first. I vote Libertarianz second.”
               
              And delusional the rest of the time, apparently. It’s a bit rich you lecturing the left if you don’t even know your own political position.

              • McFlock

                oh, but objectivists are above it all. Don’t you know that, VoR? 

                 
                I agree with tribeless in one respect, though – socialists do have a habit of being upset about social injustices. Something to do with their completely irrational tendency to empathise with and care about the well-being of their fellow citizens.

            • KJT 1.1.1.6.2.2

              “”The Right chooses not to acknowledge or clarify their demands because it brings into focus the actual political policies necessary to achieve them. And why would that be bad? Because, at root, capitalism necessitates the violent transfer of wealth from one group to another group, a rather frightening position to explicitly advocate. Such a program is not only highly impractical, since it leads to stagnation, poverty and misery, but is profoundly immoral as it treats the productive as slaves authorizing the state to perpetrate acts of escalating violence against innocent individuals who want to own the products of their labor.””

              Had to fix it for a RWNJ again!

              Why right wing “Libertarians” always vote for more police power.

              • Tribeless

                Lovely people here aren’t they. Good examples I why free men wouldn’t want the Left making rules that run their lives.

                I’m not right wing. I just want the freedom to pursue my happiness: and that is not possible in our social(alist) democracy where I have no privacy or freedom from the State. The conservative god faring right wing can no more give me that than the left can: both sides believe the State is my master rather than my servant. New Zealand today is literally far closer to 1984 than to 1776, and that is a cause of great sadness to me, particularly as I am forced to pay for a society I have little philosophical agreement with.

                By the way KJT, your last comment about Libertarians shows you don’t know what one is.

                • McFlock

                  shrug off to somalia if you want freedom from the state.

                  • Tribeless

                    Oh, excellent, Somalia. The man who does all my face to face work has written well on why Somalia could not only be further removed from a libertarian minarchy, but in some major areas more closely approximates our socialist democracies.

                    To Sacha Dylan – The Standard: No, Somalia is Nothing Like A Libertarian State. Couldn’t be Further From it.

                    And a bit disappointed no one has figured out my numbers above, yet. Or does no one actually read anyone else’s posts in here?

                    • lprent

                      Yep. But first they have to be convinced that you’re worth expending the effort on…

                      So far to me you look like a run of the mill egotist with a cheap understanding of an idea – which as per the usual, you mistake for wisdom. We’ve all seen such acts before, and mostly we’ve giving up participating in such public masturbatory displays.

                      Does that make it clearer how many here view you?

                      BTW: You’ll probably find this thread in OpenMike soon. It looks like being out of context with the post and I suspect I’ll be moving it when I start moderating.

                    • Tribeless

                      Would you like to add some substance, rather than just random abuse. Argue the points raised on my link.

                      And you’re a moderator in here? Blimey. You’re quite quickly turning your blog into the Soviet Union.

                      [lprent: That wasn’t abuse – that was a description of a boring dickhead. My abuse tends to be somewhat more pointed.

                      Read the policy. You’re just stupid enough to have not already read it to find out what is permissible on our site. Having the rule of the sysop and moderators that are enforced is a major reason why we had the large numbers of page views last month and the loudmouth egofests that you’d approve of tend to not have comments. ]

                    • McFlock

                      Typical simplistic “analysis” – by overemphasising the tribal influences of Somali society (I won’t speculate as to why he makes this mistake) he argues that Somalia can’t be a libertarian society. The trouble is that Somalia is exactly what a libertarian society looks like in practise – because the state provides no assistance, people are forced to band together using other social structures – e.g. religious, regional, or indeed tribal. These become threats to your minimalist state (e.g. Al-Shabaab). The result is anarchy.

                      Societies are more complex than slogans. (Except that one)

                      [edit: strangely appropriate that you linked to a site called “solopassion”]
                        

                    • NickS

                      And you’re a moderator in here? Blimey. You’re quite quickly turning your blog into the Soviet Union.

                      My irony meter has doth exploded…

                      As an objectivist, you’re meant to respect an individual’s property rights and lprent has rather obvious property rights over this place. Ergo, he has the right to do with it what he sees fit, along with the content posted by commenter’s. Thus complaining about censorship is a disingenuous fundamental breach of lprent’s property rights…

                      lololololololol.

                      Stupid stupid whining ignorant hypocritical objectivist twit, don’tcha know, if you what your own freedom of speech get your own goat-fucking blog.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Tribeless, this is a pretty common theme here. Yell “RANDIAN, RWNJ!!!! GO BACK TO SOMALIA!!!!!!”. Then shut down the debate. Saying something substantive isn’t the purpose of this blog.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      lprent has the right to use his server space as he pleases. However,shutting down the debate just because your minions can’t defend their side is intellectually dishonest, at best. I think he knows that deep down.

                    • lprent []

                      Nope. It is more basic than that. I really couldn’t give a damn about whatever rubbish he was pouring out. I have seen it too many times before and it just reads like mosquito whines.

                      How is it that libertarians seem to have been crushed through the same tool – they act more like indoctrinated boring clones from a hive than actual opinionated people. It isn’t unique to them, just more consistent. Like toy soldiers out of a injection mould.

                      He was just annoying me because the “debate” was in a post that it bore virtually no topical relationship to. It should have been in OpenMike (where I wouldn’t have bothered with it). Effectively this juvenile arsewipe hijacked a post.

                      His debating ‘style’ just reminds me of every other obnoxious twerp I have run across who comes in boots and all into a forum area without bothering to check out the local “law”. That is a very fast way to find out how fast and hard you can get kicked. You should find out if only so you know when you’re in danger. Dickhead didn’t, which means that I wind up with the wearisome chore of yet again educating someone whose testicle hormones are overpowering their common sense.

                      I find using a club to be the most effective educational use of my time. It teaches them to be a wee bit more cautious. I’ll usually do it after I see them starting to demand actions from others with all the grace of a spoiled child.

                      And Rusty, you’ll know exactly what I mean from your own past experience.

                    • McFlock

                      1: Nobody’s “shut down the debate”. Tb packed a snoot and called it “censorship” simply because their use of idiotic catch-calls tirggered the moderation queue. 
                       
                      2: I fucking love yelling “Somalia” at libertarian morons. Why? Because Somalia is objectivism in actuality, not the psuedo-intellectual circle-jerk that is the libertarian blogosphere.

                      3: You never say anything substantive, Rusty – you misinterpret other people’s points of view to “answer” straw arguments that nobody asked, and your “answers” are simple repetitions of the objectivist catechism, performed by rote and without understanding.

                    • Tribeless

                      Let’s see. You give me a one week ban so I go away. Every one here piles in because I can no longer ply my argument. Then you actually change your post that banned me lprent, or whatever, to take away the one week ban part that was previously printed, so it looks like I’ve simply not stuck around.

                      Well, actually, with bad faith like that, Sacha, why would anyone who wanted to debate stick around?

                      I wouldn’t. If anyone wants to debate where debate is welcomed, then you can do so here.

                      And for the record, trying to wade through the stock in trade ad hominen here, no one has yet refuted my Somalia debunking post, other than in your dreams.

                      To end by answering to my numbers above.

                      80 million: the estimate of Chinese citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      60 million: the estimate of Soviet citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      20 grams; the current daily food ration of a North Korean pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      Take away free markets, you take away your liberty first, then you lose everything.

                      Oh, my first post was fully on topic, per your moderation policy. No one deigned or was able to answer it, then, as is the nature of Internet blogs, discussion became diffuse as I defended the multitude of attacks from every conceivable angle. What’s your problem with that; it’s the internet. Look to your flunkies first if you want to keep debates on a narrow track.

                      [lprent: I reread my note and decided I was being too grumpy – since I had already banned two people earlier. You were a newbie, and quite evidentially young, stupid and gullible – all of which are correctable conditions.

                      But I am always willing to help out. Would you like a ban? I could just escalate it so you can seriously feel victimized. Of course it rather define you. ]

                    • NickS

                      lprent has the right to use his server space as he pleases. However,shutting down the debate just because your minions can’t defend their side is intellectually dishonest, at best. I think he knows that deep down.

                      What part of “property rights” do you not understand? Because what you’re doing is trying to run over some of lprent’s property rights via a silly moral argument.

                      lolirony.

                    • mik e

                      Tribeless you want that sort of crap go to kiwiblog .we are alot more refined and economically educated I’ve been studying economics for over thirty years and have read libraries and none of your propaganda adds up tell me the top five performing economies in the world not one of them follows your pathetic prescription but when it comes to the worst performing economies you will find it very close to your percsription

                    • joe90

                      80 million: the estimate of Chinese citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      60 million: the estimate of Soviet citizens murdered by the State pursuing Dave’s ideals.

                      Compare and contrast.

                      http://www.newscientist.com/embedded/20worst

                    • McFlock

                      (80…60…20… yadda yadda)
                       
                      Lol.
                      If you’re not with us you’re a maoist-stalinist-whateverthehellNKis-ist?
                        
                      Typical randian BS masquerading as a “discussion”. have fun with your solitary passion.
                       

                • KJT

                  Yes it does. Hypocrites!

                  • Tribeless

                    Yes what does?

                    • Tribeless

                      Right, I’m being moderated all of a sudden.

                      At least have the decency to put up this last post, unedited. I will not debate where I am moderated. If anyone wants unmoderated debate, follow my above link to the Libertarian State is not Somalia.

                      And really, the left, get over all the heavy handed, and censoring BS. Or don’t you actually want debate?

                      See ya.

                    • no keep your boufant on, you’re not being moderated.
                      “soviet” triggers the arsehole filter is all, it’s not actually about you

                    • KJT

                      Looks like the ideal Libertarian Neo-Liberal State to us.

                      No Taxes, No Government.

                      Wealthy do whatever they like.

                      Endless supply of cheap labour.

                      Pay for your own police, roads, army, if you want them, and have the money.

                      Isn’t that what you lot cream your pants over.

                    • clandestino

                      What, so when you can’t convince anyone of the merits of your argument you run away? I imagine that’s what libertarians would do in a true libertarian state, run away and hide behind their gates and blue shirted thugs. 

                      And they are blind to the problems of their ideology. Not everyone is motivated by ‘rational’ greed, unfettered markets do not allocate resources efficiently, and externalities are either ignored or shrugged off as something that will be dealt with by the ‘market’, mechanisms tba. 

                      Dave is correct, the surplus value of labour must be expropriated or capital inequalities will continue to build. When the best argument he can come up with is ‘change jobs’, you know he doesn’t get it.

              • Tribeless

                comment deleted
                [sprout: now you are just getting boring boring. initially you were amusingly, absurdly boring, but the fun’s worn off. in case you’re unfamiliar, i am not a moderate moderator. if people derail discussion on my posts intentionally, through being persistently boring, unimaginative or just plain crazy or creepy – i delete them. to save you responding here’s your bit – wah wah freedom of speech wah victim wah wah]

                • McFlock

                  I’m a mid-30s IT professional. You’re free to leave the country any time you want.
                   
                  BTW who paid for your degrees?

                • I’m a 46 year old professional with an A+ average across three tertiary degrees.

                  Blimey, I could be your older twin!

                  Seriously, I think you need to add some wisdom to that intelligence.

                  Start by not being so judgmental (kindergarten?). And, please realise that it’s irrelevant whether others judge you – that doesn’t abrogate your responsibility to become wise and not judge. You should know better if you’ve seriously applied that intelligence to understanding others. 

                  Follow that up by feeling a bit of compassion for others. You are not being ‘burdened’ by others. They are the reality of this life and world and they are the closest thing in this universe to you – and that’s not a bad thing.

                  Finally, get out more. And I mean that intellectually. I’ve seen too many very intelligent people become trapped by deliciously crystalline, beautiful but sparsely furnished, fleshless ideologies and theoretical frameworks.

                  Find your way out of the fly bottle … (never trust an ideology – even Objectivism – that is too good to be true; it probably is). 

                • lprent

                  So?

                  You sound stupid and naive to me – for instance in your preconceptions. I’m 52, worked in management for many years, spent even more writing software in c++ and running development teams and building software companies because I like programming. I did a BSc In earth sciences, a MBA at Otago in operations, and a couple of looser degrees part time for interest.

                  I have been running local political campaigns as a volunteer for longer than your work record for Helen. In income terms, you can guarantee that it is likely I have paid more taxes than you have had income, especially since you appear to have spent so much time getting academic success. I spent most of my full time student time in the army, as a barman, poking around volcanic deposits or learning to code.

                  I have also been around the net in NZ since before it started.

                  There are quite a lot of commentators here that I can respect because of what they do or for what they know – despite their views that I usually disagree with. So far you don’t sound like one. You sound like you are so full of your own sense of importance that you haven’t bothered to look for the flaws and gotchas in your favorite theories. You’re also peddling stuff that I got bored with from repiticious waffling on usenet when you were high school.

                  Perhaps you should check your silly preconceptions, stop screaming “look at me” and start listening as well. There is an art form to projecting personality over social media. You project male adolescent

                • NickS

                  If degrees conferred intelligence and wisdom, I wouldn’t see idiots with BSc’s, BE etc and higher saying evolutionary biology is teh wrongzors!111!! for all sorts of utterly stupid reasons.

                  And your original post is even more hilarious given the time in which you got your degrees you would have received quite a lot of funding from the government, amounting to a free ride.

                  And especially amusing to me, despite being nearly twice my age, you haven’t picked up on some the basic social and group behaviour stuff that took me until I was 21 to fully learn. Nor can you seemingly grasp anything overly complex enough to argue here and now, in spite of those degrees. Leading me to think that you didn’t go into post grad and those are all undergrad degrees.

                • Tribeless

                  comment deleted
                  [sprout]

                  • McFlock

                    Seriously? A Gulag? Because a moderator got fed up with you being a stupid dick?
                    lol.
                    Rourke wasn’t such a whiney little creep. Rand would have spat on you.

                    • Tribeless

                      comment deleted
                      [sprout]

                    • The Voice of Reason

                      And yet the Standard remains popular despite your criticisms. Could it be that you don’t know your arse from your elbow? Let’s let the market decide, eh?

                    • Tribeless

                      comment deleted

                      [sprout] your comment after this one, comparing me to a mass murderer (which is very impolite and suggests you are incapable of taking hints about your behaviour) has now got you banned.
                      that’s one less tribe.
                      bye bye.

                      [lprent: Added to the auto-spam list as being too stupid a troll to be bothered with. I will copy his messages into spam as well to give the heads up to other wordpress sites. ]

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Tribeless once again you distort reality. Are you seriously advancing the position that the welfare state caused Deutschebank et al to sell multiple cdo’s that they knew were worthless? Are you going to claim that Alan Greenspan was a secret Marxist?
                      Oh, and your cherry-pick of 2010 says something about you, but nothing whatsoever about economic or social trends.

                  • NickS

                    Oh man, you should so start posting over at Pharyngula, then you’ll have something to really complain about cupcake as they love objectivists* over there…

                    Also, my first through upon gazing at your blog was “oooh, he’s just like the old, authoritarian communist nutters we had at Canty parroting empty ideological rhetoric”…

                    And the lulz, oh Cthulhu, it’s like stumbling over a creationist forum that’s lain untouched by trolls. Though much like creationists, I some how doubt you’ll respect “free speech” when it’s making fun of you and doing 50 [insert dictator here] posts/pain series/evidence based cluebats.

                    ________________________________
                    *note: this unit finds the term rather amusing given the philosophical issues endeared by both the name, the movements claims and the actions of it’s numerous delusional members.

                    • Rusty Shackleford

                      Ha, I love it! “We’re not shutting down the debate, just banning anyone who we can’t respond to”. Intellectual integrity at its finest.

            • Ari 1.1.1.6.2.3

              For “socialism”* as you call it to violate property rights, it would first have to acknowledge them in a form which contradicts its communitarian policies. It makes no such acknowledgement to a right to property, and is in fact rather stringent on what counts as property, and rather ambiguous as to whether you have any rights to any property beyond what is needed for everyone to live a decent life.

              *We’re really talking about social democracy, as nobody has been advocating communal ownership of capital in this thread, as far as I can see.

        • lefty 1.1.1.7

          Tribeless said
          “And who are these mysterious businesses then, benefiting so much? ”

          The banks for a start. They are doing just fine. And guess where Mr Key worked before becoming a politician.

          A system built on theft?
          Yes.
          Capitalism is based on bosses creating profits through stealing the labour of workers. Thats exactly how it works, no question about it, but the current hegemony is to deny and disguise it.

          Benefits are required so the reserve pool of labour can survive in case the capitalists need to steal some labour off them one day.

          You shouldn’t be complaining the 99% come cheap.

          • mik e 1.1.1.7.1

            41 percent increase in profit in a recession who’s doing well out of this economy not the productive sector or any one else except the top ten percent

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      Ah, look at that, the dictator (Tribeless) has come back. He has, over on Red Alert somewhere, told us that democracy is the problem and that he doesn’t want anybody interfering with what he does – even when what he does affects them.

      • McFlock 1.2.1

        why does that not surprise me?

      • Ari 1.2.2

        If someone who believes in welfare for corporations is a vulgar marxist, does that make someone who believes in absolute freedom only for themselves a vulgar libertarian? LOL.

  2. lan 2

    Beautiful!

    • joe90 2.1

      One of my favourites. What’s wrong with libertarianism.

      In short:

      First, the worship of the already successful and the disdain for the powerless is essentially the morality of a thug. Money and property should not be privileged above everything else– love, humanity, justice.

      Second, it’s the philosophy of a snotty teen, someone who’s read too much Heinlein, absorbed the sordid notion that an intellectual elite should rule the subhuman masses, and convinced himself that reading a few bad novels qualifies him as a member of the elite.

      Third, and perhaps most common, it’s the worldview of a provincial narcissist. As I’ve observed in my overview of the 20th century, liberalism won its battles so thoroughly that people have forgotten why those battles were fought.

      It’s hard to read libertarians without concluding that they’ve never been out of the country– perhaps never out of the suburbs. They don’t know what Latin American rule by the elite looks like; they don’t know any way of running an industrial economy but that of the US; they don’t know what an actually oppressive government looks like; they’ve never experienced a depression; they’ve never lived in a slum or experienced racial discrimination. At the same time, they have a very American sense of entitlement: a gut feeling that they’ve earned the prosperity they were born into, that they owe the community nothing, that they deserve to have whatever they want, that no one should stand in their way.

      In short, they’re spoiled, and they’ve evolved a philosophy that they should be spoiled.

      • fmacskasy 2.1.1

        Libertarianism advocates that a government is involved in only three things;

        1. National defence

        2. Policing

        3. Enforcing contracts

        The rest is up to individuals to sort out themselves, on a strictly user-pays system.

        But hang on a minute. If we take User Pays to it’s end, ridiculous ultimate conclusion – then Policing should be left up to individuals as well.

        Why should I, in a Libertarian Nirvana, pay for a police force I might not use, and which is focused on other peoples’ problems?

        People should pay for their own police or protection. After all, if I choose not to have possessions in a Libertarian Nirvana, then why should I need Police?

        In effect, Libertarianism is the ultimate destruction of any sense of community. Somalia, in some ways, is an example of Libertarianism in many respects.

  3. Hami Shearlie 3

    John won’t give a fig about debt he caused for the people of NZ – he’ll have left a trail of destruction behind him and be living in Hawaii with his knighthood! Cosy eh?

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1

      Of course he gives a fig about it – he’ll be making a government guaranteed profit from it somewhere (probably through his BoA shares).

  4. Richard Down South 4

    $40 billion? source?

  5. Peter 5

    Nice picture. Give us some quotable facts.

    • Diane 5.1

      Bernanke has been publicly quoted as saying they have just lent 9 billion to NZ from the IMF which comes from the Federal Reserve Bank. He says this has been lent in for an exchange of credit. What I would like to know is what are they terms of this loan and over what period is this paid back, what are the interests costs and what is the money being used for.What is the exchange for credit that our country has given.

      This money has been created by the Federal Reserves and Central banks of the world out of thin air, backed by what? air and we have to pay it back at compounding interest. This is fraud and these bankers should be locked up for stealing and deceiving the people of every nation. We will never pay it off the our future generations will never pay it off. This whole economic system is built on corruption and it is will continue to enslave the nations. The only beneficiaries in this are the owners of these private banks and corporations who control the world economic system.

      You only have to look at what this economic system has done to the world economies and see what’s going on. It’s obviously not working.

      • Rusty Shackleford 5.1.1

        Gross. I was not aware of this, and it doesn’t seem to be getting any play in the media. How people can say capitalism is the problem when this sort of anticapitalism is going on is beyond me.

        • McFlock 5.1.1.1

          Real-world capitalism, not the unachievable (and somewhat naive) “no true scotsman” you uphold.

  6. higherstandard 6

    Come on now wasn’t the only real case of drunken semen in parliament during recent times that of Darren Hughes ?

    • The Voice of Reason 6.1

      You seem to know a lot about it, HS, Anything you want to get off your chest or out of your closet?

      • higherstandard 6.1.1

        It’s true VoR I’ve always had a thing for gingas………… my secret shame !

        • One Anonymous Bloke 6.1.1.1

          hs it’s a bit sad, really, when you strip away the anecdotal arguments, and the blinkered adherence to economic fairytales, how many people on the right simply reveal themselves as bigots.

          • Tigger 6.1.1.1.1

            HS – I’d watch out with that type of remark. If you righties want to go there just be prepared to take a couple of your own team down.

            • higherstandard 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Couldn’t care less Tigger if you’ve got dirt on politicians feel free to dish it – people should know who they’re voting for.

              • Campbell Larsen

                People should also know WHAT they are voting for – and not have the details hidden in secret negotiations which undermine sovereignty like the TPPA, or have radical policies which the majority of the population disagree with implemented on the flimsy pretext of the ‘mandate of an election’
                If you had any consistency that wasnt troll you would be as zealous in demanding transparency on these issues.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                “Dirt”? You mean like having a blind trust that isn’t blind then setting policy as a member of cabinet that directly affects your personal investments, like corrupt lying John Key does?

          • fender 6.1.1.1.2

            Its standard practice for those who feel they are above the rest, they even claim to have “higher standards” but we know their necks are very very red.

  7. Terry 7

    Yes, right. I am even more bothered by his mass of drunken sailor supporters.

  8. KJT 8

    Over 60% of all taxes are paid by middle income earners.

    Keys claim that GST is progressive is obvious lying.

    The BS numbers from Farrar, claiming huge proportions of tax are paid by the top few

    The top 10% of households may pay 71% of income tax, (Though that is debatable. The lower income families in that range, the 150k to 200k pay proportionately more tax than the really high earners) but definitely not even 40% of total taxes paid.

    Half the wealthiest households do not pay tax!

    Anyway. It is fair that us, who are better off, who benefit most from our society, pay the most taxes.

    I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
    Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

    • queenstfarmer 8.1

      I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
      Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

      Oh please – are you seriously suggesting that Phil is so weak that he can be thrown-off by his opponent just like that? Phil is in his 4th decade in Parliament. He is far more experienced than John in that regard, and he can cut-and-thrust with the best of them. Most commentators agree that Phil was clearly caught out on the spending hole issue.

      • Craig Glen Eden 8.1.1

        Caught out I dont think so I think Key entered the parlor, the last laugh will be telling. Labour’s figures will be delivered all in good time, I only wish Key could deliver the jobs for the nations sake instead of his constant spending in the interest of the extreme rich. Just think if he actually could deliver and get people of the benefits like he promises closed the wage gap with Aussie we really would have a brighter future the evidence however shows over the last three years he’s all talk.

        • queenstfarmer 8.1.1.1

          Labour’s figures will be delivered all in good time

          Good time would have been in the leaders debates. It is quite extraordinary that Phil turned up unable to answer that basic question.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.1.1

            Here’s the answer: “We haven’t released our budget yet, John, how would you know what it says? This is the third different figure you’ve come up with now, stop making things up and act like a leader for a change.”

          • bbfloyd 8.1.1.1.2

            so an economic policy for the whole country that can be explained in 20 seconds…. sounds like the sort of idiocy that most tories have got the attention span for….which gives us a good pointer as to why we always end up deep in the shit every time we get a national govt

    • too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying

      I got the impression he was… like, where do you start

      • KJT 8.2.1

        Probably.

        It is debating technique to demand short answers to ones that can only be answered in detail.

        One that is favoured by journalists and fudgers who have already decided on the answers they want.

    • Kaplan 8.3

      “Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.”

      That was exactly my thought. When Key started with his ‘show me the money stand-up routine’ I though how the hell does Phil answer that without simply calling Key out as a disgrace and a liar, again?

      If Key is going to keep bareface lying to the public it’s pretty damn hard to answer it any other way I would have thought. The details and truth are just going to be lost under Key’s desperate cries of ’17 bullyon, 14 bullyon’. (Can’t get his lies straight… )

    • I am surprised Goff did not hammer Key back on his numbers, which are extremely dodgy.
      Maybe he was too flabbergasted by the bare faced lying.

      It seemed to me that Goff had to hold back sometimes, and let things slide, else he would be seen as too aggressive, shouting over the top of Key, or any of the other stupid criteria that people use to rubbish their ideological opponents. 
      Such is the nature of such debates (much as I would have liked to see Key cowering in the corner, whimpering and crying for his mother in the face of the truth!)

  9. Tom Gould 9

    Nice work, but too late. The MSM has bought his lies for 3 years, so they have convinced themselves that the most reckless ‘borrow and spend’ government New Zealand has ever seen, with the possible exception of Muldoon, is in fact prudent with the people’s dough. Besides, none of it is their fault, remember. Meanwhile the longest media honeymoon in history carries on.

  10. In Vino Veritas 10

    “created record levels of unemployment”

    Now this is just plain mischief making since it is untrue. Mr Goff would probably call it a “lie”.
    Unemployment reached a historical high (record) of 11.20% in September of 1991.Unemployment in NZ has averaged 6.25% between 1985 and 2010, and therefore,the 6.5% unemployment rate at end June 11 quarter is not particularly worse than the average. It is also pertinent to note that the average OECD rate for the June 11 quarter was 9.2%, significantly higher than NZ’s (who rank 12th from 34 in the OECD).

    Sprout, suggest you get your facts right before making mischief.

    • ak 10.1

      Yeah Sprout, you mischiefy little scamp you. Fancy pointing out the shocking rise in unemployment under Key when we all know that previous right-wingers have done much, much worse. Give the poor bugger time, he’s still only a learner at this poor-bashing stuff. One thing at a time eh, he’s busy ripping babies from their mothers’ arms at the mo.

      • the sprout 10.1.1

        Sprout, suggest you get your facts right before making mischief.

        ouch!
        good thing i didn’t mention the record lows in wage and economic growth

        • In Vino Veritas 10.1.1.1

          Hmm, sorry, I get it, never let the facts get in the way of a personal opinon that gets published as the truth. No wonder all left wing systems have been abject failures. For one, they rely so much on propaganda.Socialism is great, until you run out of other peoples money. Check out Greece, socialists did well there, didnt they?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1.1

            “From 04 – 09 under New Democracy, it ranged between 100% and 110%. Though to be fair, it was trending upwards.” In Vino Veritas.
            So you even debunk your own lies within minutes of telling them.

            • the sprout 10.1.1.1.1.1

              nice 😆

            • In Vino Veritas 10.1.1.1.1.2

              And then it jumped 32% in less than two years under PASOK. At least I said it how it is\was, but as always One, you read and re publish the bits that suit your argument, rather than the overall picture.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                No, I quoted the bit that showed you were lying, in your own words. I haven’t expressed an opinion on the roots of Greece’s opportunity/problem at all.

                • In Vino Veritas

                  And I certainly dont see where I have told any lie. Read the original post I made. Socialists have been in power for 13 of the past 18 years in Greece. I pointed out that Greece’s % debt to GDP had trended up from 100 to 110% under the Democratic party, it got to 100% under Socialism in the first place, then jumped to 142% under Socialism after they took power in 2009. As I say, didnt the Socialist do well?

                  I repeat, you read and re publish the bits that suit your argument, rather than the overall picture.

                  KJT, French banks own more Greek soveriegn debt than industry in Greece, that’s why the French are currently packing themselves, under the bailout scheme they have to take a 50% bath on the debt and along with other EC banks stump up with a share of $100bn to make the bailout work.

          • KJT 10.1.1.1.2

            The Greeks average longer hours for less money than the Germans and the French.
            Who have money to lend to them because they are paid more and they own a lot of Greek industry.

            Who is really living beyound their earnings is not that simple..

          • Galeandra 10.1.1.1.3

            Greece? Other posts already made the point over’n over but here goes anyway. You can read?

            (This is repeating on me like a bad cheerio at a Tory wake)
            .
            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/the-spanish-tragedy/

            As Europe is roiled by sovereign debt fears, it’s important to realize that the crisis in the largest of the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) has nothing to do with fiscal irresponsibility. On the eve of the crisis, Spain was running a budget surplus; its debts, as you can see in the figure above, were low relative to GDP.
            So what happened? Spain is an object lesson in the problems of having monetary union without fiscal and labor market integration. First, there was a huge boom in Spain, largely driven by a housing bubble — and financed by capital outflows from Germany. This boom pulled up Spanish wages. Then the bubble burst, leaving Spanish labor overpriced relative to Germany and France, and precipitating a surge in unemployment. It also led to large Spanish budget deficits, mainly because of collapsing revenue but also due to efforts to limit the rise in unemployment.

            • Nick C 10.1.1.1.3.1

              Sure, monetary union without fiscal union is a stupid idea (thats no nessesarily a principle which should go along ideological lines but until recently it was mostly people on the right saying it). Reality is though that very few European states would commit to a true fiscal union.

              Lets accept Krugmans analysis that Spain got screwed over in that respect. Doesn’t explain Ireland, Italy, Portugal or Greece does it?

              The exact graph he used to exonerate Spain of fiscal stupidity pretty much convicts the rest of them in that regard.

    • mik e 10.2

      Sou you forget the 100,000 that have left permanently to Australia while they still can afford to do so with the polls and polsters saying this could be a three term National Govt you can understand the reasoning as New Zealand will continue to decline under National like it has before
      Its even scarier that National have only promised 57,000 new jobs which really means there will be 150,000 more unemployed and heading to Australia for a brighter future

  11. Richard Down South 11

    On a related note… ANZ posted a nice profit… anyone know if they pay any NZ tax as they are Aussie owned? http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5901375/ANZ-NZ-annual-profit-jumps-25-per-cent

  12. randal 12

    went to town yesterday and a mince pie from the cafe was $4.80.
    So who’s zooming who?

    • Lanthanide 12.1

      Mince pies will go up in price if Labour puts up the minimum wage.

      • bbfloyd 12.1.1

        not to mention higher fuel costs passed on through prices from wholesalers…. higher energy prices….falling sales(but not for long when more people on minimum wages can afford to buy pies)…. not forgetting that the vast majority of bakeries are family owned and run….

        so it’s obvious that the raising of the minimum wage is the one thing that will wreck everything….. really… it’s so obvious….. isn’t it?

        • Lanthanide 12.1.1.1

          The main cost in petrol is the price of crude oil. Putting the minimum wage up to $15 might increase the price at the pump by 1 or 2 cents.

          Similarly, electricity companies aren’t going to be employing many minimum wage people, so it’ll have practically no affect on that.

          Also I never said that “raising of the minimum wage is the one thing that will wreck everything”, what I said is that the price of mince pies will go up once it’s been raised.

          • thejackal 12.1.1.1.1

            Lanthanide

            The main cost in petrol is the price of crude oil. Putting the minimum wage up to $15 might increase the price at the pump by 1 or 2 cents.

            Bullshit! The oil companies put the price of petrol up prior to the 2008 election in dramatic fashion with the MSM regularly giving soundbites as if this was Labours fault. Since the last election prices have remained stagnant until last month when they started to decrease.

            Oil companies favour National because they have less restrictions on exploitation of the environment. National ensures that any imposable fines on the oil and gas industry for their polluting of the environment are minimal or non existent.

            Wage increases have no effect on this dynamic but everything to do with peoples ability to save. Your malleable argument is particularly soft La 57.

            • Lanthanide 12.1.1.1.1.1

              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/WTI_price_96_09.svg

              Notice the big spike in 2008? You know, highest price of oil per barrel in history?

              You can read some more about how petrol prices in New Zealand are *actually* set, here: http://www.aa.co.nz/motoring/aa-torque/motoring-blog/petrolwatch/?start=0

              There also exists somewhere on the internet a graph showing the average retailer margin on a litre of petrol. It usually hovers around 8c. For every litre the petrol station charges you $2.12 for, they get 8c in profit.

              About 50-55% of the price of petrol at the pump goes to the government in taxes in one form or another, including carbon tax, GST and a petrol levy.

              Diesel is much cheaper at the pump because the road user tax is excluded and paid for separately (because lots of farmers use it in tractors that never go on the road, etc). In the US, diesel costs more than petrol.

              But hey, if you want to keep believing that it’s some conspiracy between the National party and the oil companies, I’m sure I can’t stop you, no matter how much evidence I present.

              • vto

                “they get 8c in profit”

                no, they get 8c in revenue. very different.

                • Lanthanide

                  Yes, sorry.

                  This only underlines even more that a $15 minimum wage is barely going to affect petrol prices.

              • thejackal

                You’ve not presented evidence that the conspiracy does not exist Lanthanide… just that there’s other dynamics in how the price of petrol is set. But hey, you can also believe what you like… isn’t that a novel argument.

                • Lanthanide

                  Oh, so I have to prove there’s no conspiracy, do I? I guess for your next trick, you’ll demand that I prove there are no teapots travelling around the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter.

                  How about you prove the conspiracy does exist.

                  I don’t recall the media specifically blaming Labour for the price of petrol in 2008, but you should recall that they introduced the ETS, which did increase the petrol price by about 4-5c overnight, and were talking about introducing legislation that would allow regional councils to collect tax on petrol in their area to use to fund their local transportation infrastructure. Auckland city council was mooted to opt for the full 10c tax. It is highly likely that most articles blaming the price of petrol on Labour were talking about these issues.

                  • thejackal

                    How’s this for starters?

                    Strange that I get shit for not remembering something that happened in 2002 re the worm but people are fine with you not remembering occurrences in 2008. Pot calls kettle black.

                    If you say something does not exist… then you need to have evidence to base that assertion on… especially when there’s evidence pointing towards the conclusion that oil and gas companies would manipulate the market to influence who is governing. You have no evidence and have therefore lost the argument.

                    You could always try another argumentum ad logicam… But I find such things tedious! It would also seem off topic.

                    • The Voice of Reason

                      “If you say something does not exist… then you need to have evidence to base that assertion on…”
                       
                      You’re not religious are you? I seem to recall having that sort of illogical construction thrown at me the last time I laughed at the idea of a god.
                       
                      On the petrol and wages issue, Standardistas might consider choosing to buy their gas from BP Connect servos. The staff are unionised and paid well above the adult minimum rate. I’m also told that BP will not be using the 90 day provision, so there’s another good reason to go there.

                    • Lanthanide

                      So you’re linking to your own blog as evidence of… something?

                      I don’t know what that graph is supposed to show. I already linked to a graph of the price of oil showing a massive spike up during 2008. Your graph shows the same. Where’s the conspiracy, exactly?

                      My argument is that the price of crude oil and taxes dictate (at least) 90% of the petrol price and that employees being paid $13 or $15 minimum wage will barely make a dent in the price of petrol at the pump. You are claiming that somehow National was in cahoots with the oil companies in 2008 and that’s the only reason petrol prices in NZ were so high. Sorry, but if you do a little research, you will find that petrol prices rose to record highs in all parts of the western world in 2008, perfectly correlated with the high oil price. The US was up to over $4/gallon as the average price, for example. If you want to argue that petrol prices in the US were a result of Labour being in government in NZ, go right ahead.

                      And yes, it is quite apparent that you find logic tedious and have little time for it.

                      As for the worm in 2002, it was effectively wall-to-wall in the media, when United Future went from polling around 0.5% to 7% over night and ended up getting 9 MPs. That’s a pretty big thing to apparently have completely missed.

                    • thejackal

                      My religious beliefs are not relevant to the debate VoR, but thanks for asking.

                      However your assertion that the argument is religious in origin is because it’s often used by atheists… I’m refering to Lanthanides teapots travelling around the sun between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter stupidity of course.

                      Lanthanide

                      So you’re linking to your own blog as evidence of… something?

                      You asked for evidence. There’s the Google public data graphic concerning the rise.

                      My argument is…

                      Again… you only prove that there are other dynamics involved.

                      If you want to argue that petrol prices in the US were a result of Labour being in government in NZ, go right ahead.

                      Thank you master. May I shine your fallacious little shoes first?

                      As for the worm in 2002, it was effectively wall-to-wall in the media, when United Future went from polling around 0.5% to 7% over night and ended up getting 9 MPs. That’s a pretty big thing to apparently have completely missed.

                      Now the worm in 2002 was broadcast more than the “it’s Labours fault the petrol prices are increasing” bullshit in 2008? Get real Lanthanide.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Russell’s teapot is a perfectly good analogy for the demand for evidence to disprove a conspiracy.

                  • thejackal

                    Lanthanide

                    And yes, it is quite apparent that you find logic tedious and have little time for it.

                    It’s logical that the oil and gas companies would work towards their goal of being able to conduct deep sea oil drilling in New Zealand. They would prefer whatever political organization might further those goals.

                    It appears that they’ve previously promoted a public belief that Labour equals higher fuel prices when this is not the case. Their greed equals higher fuel prices.

                    I do not see that this is an illogical argument. It is what I believe is the case and I do not have to provide airtight evidence to hold that belief… no matter how much you might try to demoralize me to win the argument Lanthanide.

                  • Lanthanide

                    So your evidence that National are in a conspiracy with the oil companies to rise the price of petrol in New Zealand, is a graph showing that the import costs of oil increased in 2008?

                    That’s it? That’s your only evidence?

                    “Now the worm in 2002 was broadcast more than the “it’s Labours fault the petrol prices are increasing” bullshit in 2008? Get real Lanthanide.”

                    Find me some articles blaming Labour for the petrol price rise (outside of the ETS and regional fuel tax, as I have already explained above) and you might have some evidence to base this assertion on.

                    As mildly entertaining as this exchange has been, it’s clearly going nowhere. So I’ll leave you with the slogan from the NZ Sceptics Society: When you hear the sound of hoofbeats in the night… think first of horses, not of zebras.

                    • clandestino

                      Hahaha, funniest exchange i’ve read since the 9/11 truthers way back in September. Methinks the jackal doth logic:fail too much.

                    • thejackal

                      As mildly entertaining as this exchange has been, it’s clearly going nowhere.

                      Agreed Lanthanide. Will get back to you sometime with further information/evidence regarding this. Although it’s not something that government’s or the oil and gas industry usually write about in articles.

  13. Anyonewhobelievesapoliticianwhentheysaytheyarehonestisafool 13

    Is this really the best the Left can do after their messiah was made to look weak and without a grip on the details of his election package?

  14. Craig Glen Eden 14

    I guess standard and poors are the liars then? Oh no thats right, National have got our country a credit down grade and John Key was not at the meeting!

    Oh just so we are clear on some reality.

  15. John for PM 15

    Ekshully that headline is completely false. I havunt been drunk on semen since my uni days

  16. Blue 16

    Key’s opened up a can of worms. He challenged Phil to show him the costings. And when Labour produces theirs, the heat should go on Key to explain his own numbers, which are full of holes.

    It’s only a victory to Key if it doesn’t come back to bite him in the arse later.

  17. rain33 17

    Regardless of anything, Labour need to get those figures out….and fast. “Show me the money”..is everywhere today, and as everyone knows perception is everything. Goff made huge inroads on Monday night, but last night Goff ended up on the ropes regarding this issue, which is disappointing as otherwise it would have hands down been a win for Goff, but that bit of sh*t really stuck.

    To not be able to come up with a satisfactory answer was a terrible look. I can understand that it is near impossible to deliver budget like figures in a debate environment…but that is no excuse for getting caught with your pants down. You have to come back with something other than a ‘i’ll get back to you’ type response. Uuggh.

    (show me the money, just heard it being referenced to again on the radio while typing)..anyway, there could have been no doubt that National were going to come out swinging after Monday night, it was a sea-shift moment. However, that could all account for nothing if Labour don’t get up swiftly and deliver a ‘right-back-at-ya’ moment.

    Hurry up guys…tick, tick, tick……

  18. Campbell Larsen 18

    Show me the jobs, Shon, show me the jobs. Times ticking, tick, tick, tick….

    • rain33 18.1

      Of course you’re right, but if you read the headlines out there today, the ball is in Labour’s court and they must produce the numbers…now! Every Labour supporter out there should be screaming out for them to come up with the numbers, for every minute that passes by is like oil leaking from the Rena…it’s damaging!

      • Campbell Larsen 18.1.1

        While I’m all for Labour being able to produce the information, I also think that quietly and confidently choosing the moment to relaese the information on ones own terms is preferable to pandering to a desperate faction of the MSM who erroneously believe that they have scented blood.
        This is especially so given the lack of detail from the Rats about there own policies, or more accurately the lack of policy from the Rats.
        Referencing the Rena is a bit of a stretch, this is not a shipwreck for Goff or Labour and is not likely to become so – Shonkeys supporters may wish it was but it is not.

        • Rob 18.1.1.1

          What, like Nov 28th Campbell.

        • rain33 18.1.1.2

          If Labour were well ahead in the polls I could agree with you. However, any gains made (and there definitely have been over the past couple of weeks) have to be hung on to, as those gains could disappear in a nanosecond. Unfortunately the average voter are a fickle bunch, and the die-hards are already locked in. So all of a sudden there is a group of people suddenly looking at Goff as a serious contender, but any sort of ‘stutter’ could see that evaporate very quickly.

          Labour supporters need to demand a ‘no stutter’ standard. You cant win on the back foot, Labour need to be front-footing it, their opening television address was far and away ahead of Nationals, which was unbelievably appalling, so get on it..no time for sitting back and waiting!

      • Anne 18.1.2

        +1

        Last night’s taunts by Key over Labour’s policy spending should have been anticipated. Goff should have been supplied with appropriate reprisals to counteract them.

  19. Roflcopter 19

    Maybe there’s a second “panel of experts” yet to be appointed, and it’s caused delays in getting the spreadsheet completed.

    • Rob 19.1

      This is the clear difference between career politicians and people that are employed in business or manage and lead businesses.  Not knowing your numbers is suicide.  At budget presentations if you cannot articulate your forecasts at various lines of a P&L you are mince meat. Last night unfortunatly what we see was a presentation of fairy tales by Phil Goff.  If he does not know how much they cost or even when they will start being effective (ie what fricken year they start kicking in) in the manner he is promoting then he is not fit to lead or even be involved. Also mentioning that he has a team knocking it up on a  spreadsheet was just lame and so second rate, most of us sort of expect that was probably done prior (does this guy think its 1978), get current man.

      So delay the number chaps, that will really work in your favour.

  20. Bovver 20

    3 more years boys and girls

  21. Uturn 21

    It’s amazing.

    Given some of the ideas here, National should’ve been obsolete years ago. The reasons National give for their policy is supported by people calling for solutions that ACT policy would fix. It would have given them what they wanted, starting 2008.

    But for some reason they don’t vote for what they say they want. Hmmm. Strange people.

  22. Tombstone 22

    What is National doing to improve the living standards, work opportunities and wages for ordinary, hard working Kiwis? Responsibly managing the economy? Bullshit they are and any donkey dick that says different is as good as kidding themselves. Look at the stats … National’s track record so far is bloody shocking. What the hell is there to crow about ya bunch of muppets!

  23. randal 23

    no bover.
    no more three years for the national party.
    if just selling the assets were enough the there are other plums as well, like new management contracts and new staff.
    nice work if you can get it.
    can they pull it off?
    who wins?
    the country is in need of reorganisation but only labour is trustworthy enough to take not only the hard decisons but the right decisions.

  24. Key is a wimp and Goff a sick joke.

    Would a REAL KIWI LEADER PLEASE STAND UP>>>PLEASE STAND UP?

    yeah right – dreams are free.

    Poor New Zealand. 

    • vto 24.1

      d4j, your river been treating you well? I seem to recall some comment in days past about judges and gangsters mooching together in the whitebait chase …

      • dad4justice 24.1.1

        kewl vto, a chess player, Justice Potter and Peter Davis.

        Game over nerd. Go away and whitebait your Dan Carter underwear.

        I have payback in mind. Stay away as you might break a fingernail darling.    

        • vto 24.1.1.1

          so clever you foolish fool. Just stick to them sticky sewery eastern drains. bleeaargh…. puke….. that oily sheen is the perfect mirror for you

  25. Harry Dupont 25

    Lets have a look at what’s happened in the last 3 years which may have caused the government to borrow a lot of money, increase unemployment levels and cause credit downgrades…

    Oh, that’s right. Canterbury suffered two catastrophic seismic events, another less severe but still damaging which further impacted the province’s ability to recover. Oh, and nearly 8000 aftershocks.

    Now, what does this have to do with government borrowing, spending, unemployment, etc? Well. These events have led to the government needing (or choosing, I guess, but realistically if they didn’t, things for New Zealand would be far worse than you guys seem to think they are) to bail out EQC and the rest of the insurance industry. Having a great deal of Canterbury businesses out of action has caused a downturn in tax revenue. And (as you’ll see below) an increase in unemployment/people drawing on the unemployment benefit. So there’s your deficit/borrowing increase.

    Next up: Unemployment. Any idea what happens when the part of our countries (still) second largest city has it’s densest area of commercial space completely out of action for almost a year? Yep, that’s right, people lose their jobs. And a lot of people lost their jobs. Less people employed means less people spending means more jobs lost because businesses can no longer afford to/no longer need to employ as many staff. So massive increase in unemployment. Increase in welfare payments (see above).

    Credit downgrades? Well, I’d think it’s fairly obvious that with bailouts of various industries, global economic downturn and various other things are going to lead to this kind of downgrade. So, yeah. There’s that.

    Seriously, so many people get high and mighty about what’s happened under National’s/John Key’s government, but do you stop to think that a huge portion of the things they complain about are outside of the government’s control. How exactly was the Rena disaster Mr Key’s fault? Did he set of earthquakes in Canterbury?

    Please, climb down off your high horses and remember that a Labour government would have ended up with the same issues.

    • Harry Dupont 25.1

      Oops, my grammar toward the end there got pretty atrocious, but oh well. I think my point was/is sufficiently made.

    • thejackal 25.2

      Harry Dupont

      How exactly was the Rena disaster Mr Key’s fault? Did he set of earthquakes in Canterbury?

      Please, climb down off your high horses and remember that a Labour government would have ended up with the same issues.

      I think this argument has been made numerous times before.

      Nobody is saying that John Key drove the Rena into the Astrolabe reef… what we are concerned with is the safety of ships and the skill employed on them in New Zealand’s waters… not to mention the ability of authorities to respond adequately when things go wrong.

      National did not respond well at all and there appears to be no proper infrastructure to deal with a relatively small oil spill (not that approximately 380+ tonnes of heavy fuel oil is a small amount) or any other hazardous substance that ships regularly carry through our water for that matter.

      We will never know if Labour would have done better… but I would hazard a guess that they might have initiated an increase in the maximum fines able to be imposed under the law. They may have also ensured that the recommendation to purchase a dedicated emergency response vessel was upheld.

      Please don’t try to negate Nationals responsibility for their obvious failures just because Labour might not have done any better… It’s an insult to all those affected by a disaster that is still unfolding.

      • mik e 25.2.1

        Thats Nationals policy export middle class labour voters
        Stay in power we need every expat kiwi to vote then start blogging

    • Puddleglum 25.3

      Hi Harry Dupont,

      I think you’ll find that the unemployment rate was rising some time before the Canterbury earthquakes. I think the safer argument (for National) is the global recession.

      On that, I think I recall that most right wing commenters here were praising National for not doing anything (i.e., no stimulus) to improve the unemployment statistics. Despite the supposed ‘Job Summit’, that is, the approval was for no government intervention to encourage job growth. It was all about – according to right wingers – tightening government expenditure, trying to keep the books in some semblance of ‘order’ and … waiting it out. The unemployed were simply collateral damage.

      I think that’s what people on the left had a problem with. 

  26. mik e 26

    borrow and hope
    blame game
    Nationals policy

  27. It may be appropriate to share this current project I’m working on. It’s not complete – but, I believe it shows fairly well the differences in Labour’s and National’s handling of the economy.

    Fair warning to Nat supporters: you won’t like this one little bit.

    http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/labour-the-economic-record-2000-2008/

    (Please note: still to be completed. The best is yet to come.)

  28. BLiP 28

    Sure, by all means, show John Key the money. Just don’t let him anywhere near it.

  29. muzza 29

    This thread is a disgrace, what is with all the academic garbage one upmanship, my failed ideology it better than yours , its like a bloody sandpit..

    It is clear like other blog sites there are no more than a handful of people who are pugged into reality, and not hiding behind their self perceived academic superiority!

    This thread is a classic example of why NZ is in the shit, because the egos of the nerds and theoretical ninnies can’t even play nice n such simple terms.

    • NickS 29.1

      Translation: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Iz soo much betters than alls of you cos I don’t bother thinking critikally abouts truth claims!

      And nice, both tone trolling and anti-intellectualism in one post.

    • lprent 29.2

      I wasn’t too happy about that (I was working too hard yesterday to do much moderation). It avoided the entire question of the post because of a libertarianz idiot running diversions.

      I think that I’ll have to run a zero tolerance program against the type. It is easy enough to add their favourite phrases to auto-moderation and start treating those as troll statements. They get restricted to comments in OpenMike because like Tribeless they tend to not respect anyone elses rules or property

  30. Campbell Larsen 30

    Muzza you are an ass. You accuse others of arrogance whilst at the same time implying that you are somehow able to determine who is ‘plugged into reality’
    Your comment is full of childish name calling eg ‘nerd’ and ‘ninnie’ – it’s like you have been transported here from a bad 80’s movie – you insult those you presumably want to hear your message and expect others to play nice while exempting yourself from the same requirements.
    If there is anyone who is not out of the sandpit I suspect that it is you sir.

  31. pat 31

    key and his minders knew that labours costings were not finished and had to be signed off,so his minders directed him to attack this,knowing goff couldn’t answer,key’s notes told him what to say as he always has his notes to refer to, now what nz needs is to know just exactly what national’s costings are,although national have never been honsest with the public anyway.
    National have borrowed $40b of tax payer funds to help his prefered sector of the public.
    National only focuses on labour to deflect any scrutiny of their own plans,one reveals a $35b issue
    of govt bonds at the cost of $100-$150 million a year to tax payers, $1.3b of govt bonds held at
    national and westpac banks have already been downgraded,so there are 3 downgrades under
    national and stratospheric debt and they will borrow more and kill the economy just like they
    did with ets and gst,then wonder why the economy has stalled,idiots or what.
    National can not manage a country’s economy,they are used to the wheeling and dealing
    of the sharemarket and the money market,a country’s economy affects 4.5 million people,sharemarkets and the money market only affects themselves and if this economic illiteracy
    continues under national,nz will be another greece.

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    Maybe you’ve seen the graph that says those countries where everyone wears a mask are the ones that have managed to keep Covid-19 under control? The first thing to say about that claim is that those countries also did lots of other things, too – they acted fast, with intense ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    3 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #14
    Story of the Week... Editorial of the Week... Toon of the Week... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... North Atlantic's capacity to absorb CO2 overestimated, study suggests Research into ocean’s plankton likely to lead to ...
    3 days ago
  • The Americans are trying to kill us all again
    The Treaty on Open Skies is one of the most effective mechanisms for preventing war curently in force. By letting countries make surveillance flights over each others' territory, it eliminates fears that they are secretly preparing for war. So naturally, the US is planning to withdraw from it: The Trump ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 11
    . . April 5: Day eleven of living in lock-down… My one day of rest for the week, and an opportunity to mow my lawns – which I’d been delaying for about three weeks. (On the plus side, the damp micro-climate in my back yard yielded three lovely fresh mushrooms ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Now we know what the rules are
    As the lockdown has gone on, disquiet about what the rules were and the police's enforcement of them has grown. On Friday, Police admitted that they were abusing routine traffic stops to effectively set up illegal checkpoints, and on Saturday Stuff revealed internal police advice saying that they actually needed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 2: Green et al (2019)
    Paul Connett is putting all his eggs in one basket. He says “you only have to read four studies” to find community after fluoridation harmful. Image credit: Fluoride Action Network newsletter. For part 1 of this series see Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 1: Bashash et al (2018). Paul Connett, ...
    3 days ago
  • Hard News: Splore Listening Lounge 2020: the road to a “yes” vote
    As far as anyone can say, New Zeaand still has a general election scheduled for September 19 this year. The election will be accompanied by two referenda, one of which will ask voters:Do you support the proposed Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill?The official campaign period for the cannabis referendum begins ...
    3 days ago
  • Obituary for The New Zealand Listener (1939-2020)
    The vast majority of tributes to the Listener hearken back to its glory days, with little reflection on the magazine as it was at its end.I wrote for it, for half the Listener’s life; I have known personally all the editors except the first (mythical) three. From 1978 to 2014 ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    3 days ago
  • Universal income – a challenge to capitalism or a crutch?
    As the world economy slides rapidly towards deep recession there are growing calls for a Universal Benefit coming from some leftists and rightists. Now Finance Minister Grant Robertson is saying it is on the table.  This article by a French party Workers Struggle provides analysis of various forms of universal ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Anti-fluoridation propaganda now relies on only four studies. 1: Bashash et al (2018)
    This is the advice from the very top of the anti-fluoride movement – Paul Connett, director of the Fluoride Action Network (FAN). Don’t worry about reading  up on all the scientific information “You only have ...
    4 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 10
    . . April 4: Day 10 of living in lock-down… I wake up to a fine Saturday morning which normally would be like an early Christmas. But it’s Day 10 of Level 4 Lock Down. What  will my fellow New Zealanders be doing on a day like this – staying ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • Redline reaching out to more writers & readers
    Some time during the night we went over the 850,000 views mark. We might have had our millionth view by the end of this year – certainly by early next year. Most of the people involved in Redline spent years and years producing various small left-wing papers and selling them ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Keir Starmer elected
    Comfortably, in the very first round, with an impressive 56% of the votes.I wonder, did members of the Shadow Cabinet start tweeting their resignations during Starmer's victory speech, or is that only a trick the right pull?It is odd how all the talk of how the next leader "needs to ...
    4 days ago
  • Hard News: Michael Baker and the Big House
    One of the key voices in this extraordinary time in which we live is that of University of Otago epidemiologist Professor Michael Baker. Philip Matthews did an an excellent job this weekend of capturing the way he became the man for this moment in a profile for The Press.But one ...
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand Gives up on Trying to Save Daylight
    New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern addressed the nation today about the decline in daylight New Zealand has been experiencing over the previous few months. She said “As many of you will notice, our attempts to stem the dwindling of the daylight over the last few months have been completely ...
    Can of wormsBy Can of Worms, Opened
    5 days ago
  • A bulletin from Greece
    Redline received this article from the KOE a Marxist party in Greece Our friends in the KOE describe here the mounting crisis in Greece and tensions on the Turkish border. As desperate people flee from their homelands which have been ruined after decades of imperialist wars and interventions the people ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • And God spake all these words, saying
    As the first week of Level Four lockdown unfolded, mounting questions grew as to just what was (and was not) allowed under its “rules”. Partly these were driven by some apparently contradictory messages from different authority figures and explanations carried in the media. Partly they reflected a somewhat sketchy legal basis ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    5 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 9
    . . April 3: Day 9 of living in lock-down… Another late-start to my work day. Everything is temporarily upended as clients are shuffled around so we can minimise our “bubble” by reducing the number of people we help. One of my colleagues has been removed from his clients; his ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    5 days ago
  • Death to our lockdown enemies!
    We must root out the traitors among us! ...
    Imperator FishBy Scott Yorke
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: The benefits of electrification
    In order to meet our 2050 carbon target and do our bit to avoid making the Earth uninhabitable, New Zealand needs to decarbonise our economy, replacing fossil fuels with electricity in the energy, industrial and transport sectors. The good news is that it will mean cheaper power for all of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 8 (sanitised version)
    For those folk who find my other Lock-Down Diary versions too “negative” or otherwise unpalatable… Here’s a photo of a pretty flower, .   . Better? Tomorrow’s Sanitised Version: a cute animal video. . . . =fs= ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 8
    . . April 2: Day eight of living in lock-down… Today, my work day starts late. Our rosters and clients have been dramatically changed, lessening (theoretically) the number of people in our work “bubble”.  If just one of us catches covid19 the impact could be considerable as Grey Base Hospital ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    6 days ago
  • A note on apartments and bubbles
    As Aotearoa enters week two of lockdown, it’s clear we’re all still working out what our “bubbles” look like and how to stay in them to stop the spread of Covid-19. New to the government’s Covid-19 website is some good guidance for people living in apartment blocks. Recent decades have ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    7 days ago
  • Getting in futures shape 
    “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” Lenin Don’t we all know that feeling now.

    Prospect Magazine alerted me to this particularly apt quote. It is a much more evocative quote than Hemingway’s “gradually then suddenly” which is also doing ...

    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Maybe axing Clark would be unfair. But what about any of this is fair?
    Yesterday was the day the consequences of the lockdown suddenly got very real for many. Firms have been closing and laying people off since the outset of the quarantine but this has mostly been happening out of the public eye. The mass closure of a number of iconic New Zealand ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    7 days ago
  • Might a ‘Coasean’ social contract mitigate overall societal harm from COVID-19?
    Brian Williamson1, Prof Nick Wilson2 (1Economic consultant, UK; 2University of Otago Wellington) In this blog, we outline how a win-win social contract could be forged to address the major dimensions of response to the COVID-19 pandemic when using a mitigation strategy: the particular need to protect older people from high ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    7 days ago
  • Returning To “Normalcy”.
    Resuming Normal Service: The Republican Party's nominee for in 1920, Warren Harding, promised the American people: “not heroics, but healing; not nostrums, but normalcy; not revolution, but restoration”. If she wishes to remain our prime minister, then Jacinda Ardern will offer New Zealanders the same.HOW EDUCATED AMERICA snickered when the ...
    7 days ago
  • New Zealand’s Government Must Save New Zealand’s Media.
    No Free Society Without A Free And Functioning News Media: If we are to surrender our civil rights to the broader cause of defeating Covid-19, then foreign corporations must, likewise, surrender their right to inflict immense economic and cultural harm on New Zealanders simply because it improves their bottom line.I’M ...
    7 days ago
  • Corona fevers and the madness of models
    by Daphna Whitmore A third of the world is under lockdown and a clear assessment of this measure to curb the spread of COVID-19 is urgently needed.  With any high-stakes decisions it has to be asked what are we dealing with here? Are the measures warranted? Will they achieve their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Lockdown day 8
    I haven’t done a huge amount in the last few days. I’m reading The Poppy War and I’ve sort of poked at a couple of games – I started SOMA but I’m a wimp and I quit while in the first room after the brain scan. I might try it ...
    The little pakehaBy chrismiller
    1 week ago
  • Backstage and Theatre
    The swan politicians may be gliding on the water, occasionally snapping at one another. Meanwhile, as the Covid19 crisis illustrates, the officials are desperately paddling below providing the real locomotion. One of the most fatuous recent grandstanding comments (of about a week ago), adding to the public’s anxieties, was ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Legal Beagle: Waiver, the singular Crown and the conduct of Crown legal business
    Much has been written about the importance of discretion in an emergency situation, and the concerns raised by the potential for it to be exercised arbitrarily. Given the quality of the discussion, there seemed little point in adding to it at any length. In particular, I point to the evidence ...
    1 week ago
  • Highlights from Bauer Media’s science-related reporting
    Today has felt surreal. I was all set to touch base online with my science communication students when a colleague shared the news that Bauer Media would be shutting down its publications immediately. The first link I saw implied it was Woman’s Weekly affected, and even that shocked me. But ...
    SciBlogsBy Sarah-Jane O'Connor
    1 week ago
  • Outsiders.
    Bogeymen, Real And Imagined: Is the number of psychopathic and sociopathic individuals in any given society truly as vanishingly small as we like to tell ourselves? Isn’t it more likely that the mass-shooters and serial-killers filling the headlines represent only the tip of a much, much larger iceberg of frightfulness? ...
    1 week ago
  • We have a right to know the rules we are expected to obey
    Outgoing Police Commissioner Mike Bush appeared before the Epidemic Response Committee today, who asked him for the rules police are using to enforce the lockdown. He refused:Police Commissioner Mike Bush has admitted the advice given to Kiwis about what they're able to do during the lockdown hasn't been clear enough. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7 (sanitised version)
    For those folk who find my other Lock-Down Diary versions too “negative” or otherwise unpalatable… Here’s a photo of my cat, . . Better? Tomorrow’s Sanitised Version: a pretty flower. . . . =fs= ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 7
    . . April 1: Day seven of living in lock-down… This morning I had a brief chat with one of my neighbours, “D” (social distance between us, a good three or four metres). I learned he had resigned from his previous job and had been hired by another company – ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • RIP The Listener, New Zealand’s pioneering voice
    Funnily enough, my thought as I start this post is whether it will be well written enough. Or should that be well enough written? Because so much of what I know about good writing came from my two stints at The Listener, which this morning was shut down due to ...
    PunditBy Tim Watkin
    1 week ago
  • OK, Britney: stop sniping at National for doing its job
    With normal democratic procedures in abeyance, there were two ways to go. First, it was open for the government to dissolve itself and invite the National Party to join a ministry of national salvation. That would have lessened the democratic deficit of the times by having a team of rivals without ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    1 week ago
  • Helpful tips for parents during lockdown
    Dr Kirsty Ross Children and young people can respond differently in times of distress. This also varies by age and developmental stage, with younger children having more magical and imaginative thinking, and older children having more awareness and knowledge of the issues our communities are facing (which brings up ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #13, 2020
    1 week ago
  • Hungary is now a dictatorship
    Hungary has been a virtual dictatorship for a decade now, as Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has gradually eroded its democracy. But now, its official, with the passage of an indefinite emergency law allowing rule by decree:Hungary’s parliament has passed a new set of coronavirus measures that includes jail terms for ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A new Ministry of Works
    While the economy is on pause under lockdown, the government is beginning to plan how to cope with the post-lockdown, post-tourism, post-export education world we will eventually find ourselves in. They're planning a lot of infrastructure spending as economic stimulus, and have asked for proposals which can start the moment ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Capture: Well spaced out
    It's my distraction,  setting up tiny scenes to photograph.  I've got stuck on the Babushka dolls for now.  Something about their bubble shape.  Something about their never changing, smiling features, suggesting persistent equanimity.  Can we get through everything that is being thrown at us and keep at least a tiny ...
    1 week ago
  • Life in Lock Down: Day 6
    . . March 31: Day six of living in lock-down… This time I managed to sleep a little longer and the alarm woke me at the pre-set time: 6.55am. Then remembered I was working a later shift and could’ve slept in. Oh well, there are things to do at home. ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    1 week ago
  • March ’20 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: Diamond Harbour School Blogs I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is unexpectedly missing or ...
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Poll Pot and the partisans
    Yesterday's Horizon poll showing support for a "Yes" vote in this year's cannabis referendum sliding into the majority for the first time in a year looked like good news for reformers – and it probably is. But the result warrants some scrutiny.The poll is the fifth in a series commissioned ...
    1 week ago
  • Why those bubbles are so important
    For almost a week now, every one of us who isn’t an essential worker has been confined to their bubble. We are allowed to go shopping for groceries, to visit the doctor, and to get a bit of exercise if we stay local. The reason we are doing this is ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    1 week ago
  • A Government System That Works
    The Covid-19 saga will no doubt produce many twists and turns for us before it is finally brought to an end. But one thing it has shown us – and what comfort it should bring us – is that our country’s government is in good hands. I am not thinking ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • Smashing down the barriers: Where are we at with COVID vaccines?
    In the absence of a vaccine or a cure for a deadly disease, staying home in your bubble is what you do, the concept is not new.  To the best of my knowledge last time we did this in NZ was for polio, in the years before a vaccine came ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    1 week ago
  • National Network on Cuba (USA): “Cuban medical solidarity is a pillar of its society and is founde...
    The following statement was released on March 28 by the National Network on Cuba, a coalition of 40 groups, based in the United States. In recent weeks, Cuba has deployed hundreds of medical providers to over a dozen countries in Europe, Asia, as well as to their neighbors in Latin ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago

  • Decisions made on urgent turf maintenance
    The Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson has announced that urgent maintenance of turf and care for plants in non-plantation nurseries will soon be able to go ahead under Level 4 restrictions. “The Government has agreed that urgent upkeep and maintenance of biological assets will be able to go ahead ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 hours ago
  • Acknowledging an extraordinary te reo champion
    E tangi ana a Taranaki iwi, e tangi ana te ao Māori, otirā e tangi ana te motu. Mōu katoa ngā roimata e riringi whānui ana, mōu katoa ngā mihi.   E te kaikōkiri i te reo Māori, e Te Huirangi, takoto mai. Takoto mai me te mōhio ko ngā ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Prime Minister’s remarks halfway through Alert Level 4 lockdown
    Today is day 15 of Alert Level 4 lockdown. And at the halfway mark I have no hesitation in saying, that what New Zealanders have done over the last two weeks is huge. In the face of the greatest threat to human health we have seen in over a century, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Licenses, WoFs and regos extended under lockdown
    All driver licences, WoFs, CoFs, and some vehicle certifications, that expired on or after 1 January 2020 will be valid for up to six months from 10 April 2020, Transport Minister Phil Twyford has announced. “People shouldn’t have to worry about getting fined for having an expired document if driving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Inquiry report into EQC released
    The Government has today released the report from the Public Inquiry into the Earthquake Commission chaired by Dame Silvia Cartwright.  Minister Responsible for the Earthquake Commission Grant Robertson says the Government wants to learn from people’s experiences following the Canterbury earthquakes and other recent natural disasters. “Dame Silvia’s report documents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • More time for health workers and elderly to get flu vaccine
    The Government has extended by two weeks till April 27 the amount of time priority groups, such as health workers and those aged over 65, have to get their flu vaccine before it is made available to the wider public. This year’s vaccination campaign is a key component of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    13 hours ago
  • Communities step up to help New Zealanders stay connected and fed during lockdown
    Communities stepping up to help New Zealanders stay at home to break the transmission of COVID-19 and save lives have received Government support, said Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni. “Delivering groceries for the elderly who can’t shop online, providing data packs for low income families to keep them connected, and being ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • 120 COVID-19 testing centres now operating
    Across New Zealand 120 sites are taking samples to be tested for COVID-19.   68 community based assessment centres (CBACs) have been established to take samples from people with COVID-19 symptoms. Alongside this, 52 other centres including designated general practices, swabbing centres, and mobile clinics are now testing people for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Covid19: Government moving quickly to roll out learning from home
    The Ministry of Education is working with partners to develop a package of options so that students can learn at home when Term 2 begins on 15 April, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. Supports are also being prepared for households with children under five, to help parents and whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Making learning from home accessible to Māori learners and whānau
    Māori Television to begin educational te reo programmes Ki te Ao Mārama – a new online learning space Thousands of hard copy learning packs ready for distribution Helpdesk and advice service for kōhanga, kura and wharekura Television, the internet and hard copy learning packs are some of the ways whānau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand to provide assistance to Vanuatu following Tropical Cyclone Harold
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced an initial package of support to help the people and the Government of Vanuatu respond to the impact of Tropical Cyclone Harold. “Our Pacific neighbours have been hit by a Category 5 Cyclone at the same time as dealing with the economic impacts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Planning for the future of tourism
    Tourism New Zealand to lead work reimagining the way tourism operates in post-COVID-19 world. Ministers to review International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy investment plan. The Government, industry and business are working together to develop a plan for how tourism will operate in a post-COVID-19 world, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • NZ horticulture sector feeding Kiwis and the world during COVID-19
    More New Zealanders are taking up the chance to work in horticulture as the sector keeps New Zealanders fed and in jobs during the COVID-19 Alert Level 4 lockdown. “Our horticulture sector has long been one of New Zealand’s export star performers, contributing around $6 billion a year to our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Work to repurpose PGF funds begins
    The Provincial Development Unit is working through applications and projects to see where Provincial Growth Fund money can be repurposed for initiatives deemed more critical to fighting the economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones says. “We need to be throwing everything we have at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • A million workers supported by Govt wage subsidy
    The Government’s wage subsidy to protect jobs and keep workers and businesses connected during the lockdown has now supported over a million New Zealanders, with $6.6 billion already paid out. “We’re supporting businesses to pay wages, and stay connected with their workers so that we are all in a better ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government helps Pacific communities fight COVID
    The Government is stepping up efforts to help protect New Zealand’s Pacific communities in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet has agreed that $17 million will be allocated to support a COVID-19 Pacific Response Package, which will: Support Pacific health and disability services facing increased demand; Ramp up public health messaging ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Dr David Clark
    “Yesterday evening the Health Minister advised me of his trip to a beach during the lockdown and offered his resignation,” Jacinda Ardern said.  “Under normal conditions I would sack the Minister of Health. What he did was wrong, and there are no excuses.  “But right now, my priority is our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Statement from David Clark
    Last night as part of my preparation for the Epidemic Response Committee, I provided the Prime Minister with a complete picture of my activity outside my home during Alert Level 4.  That included the fact that on the first weekend of the Alert Level 4 lockdown I drove my family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 mental health support begins
    A range of support is being rolled out across New Zealand to help people look after their mental health during COVID-19 Health Minister David Clark said this morning. “COVID-19 has brought a lot of uncertainty into our lives and many of us will be feeling some level of distress or ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealanders in Peru to be assisted by Government charter flight
    The New Zealand Government has made arrangements to charter a flight for New Zealanders stranded in Peru to depart the country, following agreement with the Chilean government to allow the necessary transit through Chile, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters announced today. “Like many travellers around the world at the moment, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 Hospital Preparation Well Advanced
    Hospital preparations for COVID-19 are well advanced says Health Minister David Clark. “Hospitals across New Zealand are repurposing buildings and training staff to get ready for COVID-19 patients. This gives me confidence that we are well prepared for any potential increase in COVID-19 patients needing hospital level care,” said David ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Further measures to support businesses
    The Government will be introducing legislation to make changes to the Companies Act to help companies facing insolvency due to COVID-19 to remain viable and keep New Zealanders in jobs. The temporary changes include: Giving directors of companies facing significant liquidity problems because of COVID-19 a ‘safe harbour’ from insolvency ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt’s COVID plan, economic strength recognised
    The Government’s plan to cushion the blow of COVID-19 by supporting incomes, jobs and businesses, and position the economy to recover has been backed by another international report. International credit rating agency Moody’s today reaffirmed its highest Aaa credit rating on New Zealand, saying the economy is expected to remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government supports air services to offshore islands
    The Government has stepped in to support vital air links to our offshore islands, the Chatham Islands, Great Barrier Island and Motiti Island, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. “As part of our $600 million support package to minimise the impacts of COVID-19 on the aviation sector, the Government has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Funding certainty for sports through COVID-19
    National sports organisations have been given certainty of funding to ensure they can remain viable through the COVID-19 pandemic, Sport and Recreation Minister Grant Robertson announced today. “The global spread of COVID-19 has had a significant impact on sport and recreation in New Zealand, including the cancellation or postponement of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Butchers now allowed to process pork
    Changes have been made to allow butchers to process pork, only for supply to supermarkets or other processors or retailers that are open, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has announced. “We carefully weighed the risk of allowing butchers to open their shops for retail customers, but the risk of spreading COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Essential workers leave scheme established
    Essential workers who take leave from work to comply with public health guidance are being supported with a leave scheme to ensure they will continue to receive income, say the Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Iain Lees-Galloway and Minister for Social Development, Carmel Sepuloni. A number of essential businesses ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt WhatsApp helps share COVID-19 information
    A Government WhatsApp channel has been launched to help make information more easily accessible and shareable in the fight against COVID-19. Govt.NZ, which is free to use on any mobile device, will carry information and news for the public, businesses, healthcare providers, not for profits and local government. It can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Managed departure plan for stranded foreign nationals enables safe, orderly exit
    The Government has announced a plan to enable the safe, orderly exit of tens of thousands of stranded foreign nationals from New Zealand during the current COVID-19 Alert Level 4 restrictions, Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters has said. “When we moved into lockdown a week ago, the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government delivers COVID-19 support to GPs and Pharmacies
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says the Government is delivering on its commitment to support general practice doctors and nurses, and pharmacies on the front-line of our fight against COVID-19. "For us to overcome COVID-19, we need community health services such as general practice and community pharmacy to step up ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Susan Thomas the new Chief High Court Judge
    Justice Susan Thomas has been appointed Chief High Court Judge, Attorney-General David Parker announced today.  She replaces Justice Geoffrey Venning who has resigned from the position.   David Parker paid tribute to Justice Venning, who he said had stewarded the High Court very capably over the last five years.   “On behalf ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Business Finance Guarantee – applications open
    Businesses can start applying to their banks for loans under the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme set up to support the New Zealand economy during the COVID-19 pandemic. “We’re moving quickly to protect New Zealand businesses, jobs and the economy during this unprecedented global economic shock,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Work starts on ways to fast-track consents to boost recovery from Covid-19 downturn
    Work is underway looking at measures to speed up consents for development and infrastructure projects during the recovery from COVID 19, to provide jobs and stimulate our economy.  Environment Minister David Parker said the COVID-19 pandemic is a serious global crisis that will have a wide ranging and lasting impact ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Advance payments to support contractors
    Advance payments will be made to transport construction industry contractors to retain the workforce and ensure it is ready to quickly gear up to build projects which will be vital to New Zealand’s COVID-19 economic recovery, Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today. He said keeping the workforce required to build ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Government seeks infrastructure projects
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