International Federation of Journalists condemns Key’s suppression of media freedom

116 comments on “International Federation of Journalists condemns Key’s suppression of media freedom ”

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1. Jim Nald 1

   18 November 2011 at 1:19 pm

   Waiting for Key and Joyce to rubbish and belittle the IFJ …

   How about something along the lines of:
   “There are one or two people in the media that need to do a little bit of self-assessment this weekend and decide what it is they’re going to be talking about.”
   • Jim Nald 1.1

     18 November 2011 at 2:09 pm

     or how about this one:

     Key blames police for suppressing media freedom and getting in the way of his campaign … ?
     • Tom Gould 1.1.1

       18 November 2011 at 2:54 pm

       The Tories are spinning that the IFJ is just a bunch of union socialist whackos, fairly close to a re-run of the Warners gambit. I guess that is just holding spin until the CT lines arrive.
2. queenstfarmer 2

   18 November 2011 at 1:23 pm

   I wonder what the IFJ would have to say about this article’s misleading headline.

   The release states that the IFJ “condemns demands by New Zealand police for news organisations to divulge information relating to the so-called secret recording …”

   It is very misleading for the headline of this article to say “Global journalist federation condemns Key’s suppression of media freedom”.
   • Paul B 2.1

     18 November 2011 at 1:25 pm

     Yeah mate, the police suppression of media freedom has has nothing to do with Key. Gotcha.
   • Uturn 2.2

     18 November 2011 at 1:28 pm

     It’s only misleading if you ignore how the police came to be searching. Most people can join two dots. It’s called establishing context.
   • The Voice of Reason 2.3

     18 November 2011 at 1:29 pm

     They’d have nothing to say, queenie, because the headline is accurate. Key instigated the crackdown and the police are just pawns in his game.
   • queenstfarmer 2.4

     18 November 2011 at 1:45 pm

     It’s even more inaccurate. I know some people dislike facts and what documents actually say, but the press release does not even claim there has been any “suppression”. It merely says “… the police clampdown … may be interpreted as an attempt to suppress media freedom”.

     So the headline is now seriously misleading, in that it misattributes an allegation to the IFJ, that the IFJ has not made.
     • The Voice of Reason 2.4.1

       18 November 2011 at 1:54 pm

       Well, we’ve already established today that you have comprehension problems, queenie, so I’m not at all surprised at the difficulty you have in understanding the IJF’s condemnation of Key. But nice use of today’s C/T lines anyway. I see Key is trotting out the same crap (Police raids nothing to do with me, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you …).
       • queenstfarmer 2.4.1.1

         18 November 2011 at 1:58 pm

         Well, we’ve already established today that you have comprehension problems

         Care to give any examples?
         • Jackal 2.4.1.1.1

           18 November 2011 at 3:21 pm

           2, 2.4, 2.4.3.1, …, 2.5.2.
         • mik e 2.4.1.1.2

           19 November 2011 at 11:13 am

           On some of your posts their are typing errors ‘understandability considering Your former Media darling leader needs every bit of help he can get Right now
           Some would say he is Jinxed
           Released mining and drilling policy Pike river and Rena
           Cat walk no longer cake walk
           Dodgy financial back ground found out
     • Uturn 2.4.2

       18 November 2011 at 1:59 pm

       I think you’re now seriously misleading yourself. If you’d like to file a complaint that the article misattributes an allegation to the IFJ, that the IFJ has not made, do please call the cops. They enjoy it when people online discover that opinion can be based on events.
     • freedom 2.4.3

       18 November 2011 at 2:05 pm

       qsf
       With the blatant inaccuracies in everyday retail promotions, you must have a really tough time buying anything. Going to a supermarket with you is surely an undertaking that Dubya would deem worthy of inclusion into enhanced interrogation techniques at Quantanamo. Your life must be a glorius yet never-ending search for definitive statements that do not require any critical thinking..

       For once, either say you stand with John Key in his abuse of position and his perverse belief in his own infallibity or grasp the bigger picture, the rights and duty of the Media to share information.
       • queenstfarmer 2.4.3.1

         18 November 2011 at 2:59 pm

         You might think the “blatant inaccuracies” of retail promotions somehow makes it OK to misattribute serious comments to a third party. I don’t.

         I certainly do not “stand with John Key” in his handling of this. As I have said previously, it is totally bizzare to say the least. But what “abuse of position” do you claim he has committed? Are you saying the Prime Minister is not allowed to make a complaint to the police about an alleged crime?
         • Colonial Viper 2.4.3.1.1

           18 November 2011 at 3:06 pm

           Are you saying the Prime Minister is not allowed to make a complaint to the police about an alleged crime?

           Yep. Especially when he has not weighed up the resulting real democratic attack on the press just before a General Election.

           Frankly he has taken a tape recording of him saying dumb shit and escalated it into a global incident of press suppression.

           Its bad politics and bad judgement and I hope it fucks National for it.
           • queenstfarmer 2.4.3.1.1.1

             18 November 2011 at 3:13 pm

             Yep

             Well that is a pretty clear statement for you: a Prime Minister is not allowed to make a complaint to the police about alleged crimes. That sure does put a clearer perspective on how you view this whole saga.
             • freedom …

               18 November 2011 at 4:08 pm

               qsf, please be a rational human for five seconds of your life. The Cuppa was meant to be a no-hassle PR puff piece. A PM’s slip’n’slide meet and greet gladhander with a long time ally to manipulate a bunch of elitist parasites into corrupting the democratic intent of MMP.

               At no time could the event be deemed a private conversation and for anyone to try to say otherwise only states they support the ongoing deceptions that are being played out.

               The two Johns are sitting there chatting within 2 meters of an open doorway where a guy with a camera is recording and within 1 meter of a gaggle of Media folk pressed up against a window. Privacy is not the issue here.

               The principles of our Prime Minister a week out fron an Election though,
               they most certainly are
               • queenstfarmer …

                 18 November 2011 at 5:29 pm

                 Don’t get me wrong. I think the whole Cuppa thing was a debacle, and JK’s mishandling of it since has been bizzare, if not idiotic. Lodging a police complaint was very silly. If this tawdry saga costs him the election, he has but himself to blame. Key is a gambler, and I think he has placed a losing bet on this incident. But that doesn’t mean he had no right to file a complaint, or it has undermined democracy, or that he has “demanded police raids”, or any of the other hyperbole some are claiming.
                 • freedom …

                   18 November 2011 at 6:11 pm

                   we all have rights.
                   how we exercise those rights, shows our integrity
                 • Jackal …

                   18 November 2011 at 6:48 pm

                   Meanwhile my Police complaint concerning Owen Glen trying to bribe people’s votes goes unanswered… because apparently I’m not the PM and it is OK to go on national TV and wave a million bucks (now rescinded) in peoples faces if they vote for National. FFS!

                   The Police are acting as if there is a clear cut legal distinction that determines that the teapot tape is illegal… It’s complete hierarchical bullshit! What the F are the Police doing being Keys enforcers when National has cut their funding and claimed that because the crime rate has dropped they are all twiddling their thumbs.

                   This is more about Keys ego than the law… and now he’s an international embarrassment and likely to be ridiculed in court. He’s not even making sense when interviewed, which just emphasizes his lack of good decision making under pressure.

                   Smile and wave John… it’s all you’ve got.
                 • freedom …

                   18 November 2011 at 7:48 pm

                   There can be no expectation of privacy in the context of the environment occupied by John Banks and John Key as represented in this photograph.

                   http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201147/SCCZEN_A_121111NZLDWKEY01_460x230.JPG
                 • mik e …

                   19 November 2011 at 8:03 pm

                   ask old slippery Slater for an opinion he knows all about it don,t come whinging around here boo hoo Krd rag queen and trying to get some traction you have been smug enough for long enough !
         • fmacskasy 2.4.3.1.2

           18 November 2011 at 9:07 pm

           QST – of course Key has a right to lay a complaint. Key has the same rights you and I do (with certain Ministerial-related exceptions).

           But that’s not the point.

           Being able to do something is not the same as whether he should do it.

           Of course he could lay a complaint.

           But should he?

           Being PM means there are certain consequences of his actions that he has to consider. Consequences that would never arise for you or me.
   • Dean 2.5

     18 November 2011 at 2:55 pm

     If you and I had made the complaint that Key made, the Police would not be raiding newsrooms trying to get evidence. They would have laughed us off.

     The reason this is happening is because the person who made the complaint to the Police is the PM. What is happening is an exercise of his power.
     • Colonial Viper 2.5.1

       18 November 2011 at 2:59 pm

       +1

       Or rather, an exercise in the misuse of the PM’s power.
     • queenstfarmer 2.5.2

       18 November 2011 at 3:08 pm

       That is simply more speculation on your part, and in fact you are wrong in your speculation that only a complaint by the PM would result in newsrooms getting “raided”. For example here (search warrant of TVNZ) and here (search warrant of NBR).
       • tc 2.5.2.1

         18 November 2011 at 3:23 pm

         My aren’t we a busy wee troll trying to protect your idols reputation….a life’s work awaits you.
       • In Vino Veritas 2.5.2.2

         18 November 2011 at 3:32 pm

         queenstreet, you must know by now that according to Colonial, there is no-one from the right that has any right’s, whilst those from the downtrodden left, can make any spurious claims they like.
         • Ari 2.5.2.2.1

           18 November 2011 at 4:22 pm

           You have exactly the same rights we have, but apparently we’re the only ones who actually care about them. When the PM threatens journalists, it’s your democracy too that’s being undermined.
   • mik e 2.6

     19 November 2011 at 10:58 am

     Conman keys Karma has caught up with him he’s continuing to bight the hand that has fed his his popularity what hilarity All the lies and promises he has broken + the media manipulation has the media shark pack in a frenzy not just in New Ziland !
3. wtl 3

   18 November 2011 at 1:25 pm

   Reply to qstf:

   I wonder what the IFJ would have to say about this article’s misleading headline.

   Probably not much. It’s just a blog post.
4. Colonial Viper 4

   18 November 2011 at 1:26 pm

   Thank goodness our media has been rudely woken up from their enchantment with Shonkey Donkey.

   Who while once just a joke, is now clearly a member of the Right to Rule elite and is no longer afraid of elbowing his way through our democracy.
5. Fortran 5

   18 November 2011 at 1:27 pm

   Never heard of em !
   Another self centred/seeking union ?
   • Daveo 5.1

     18 November 2011 at 1:29 pm

     Because you’re clearly too thick to use google:

     The International Federation of Journalists is the world’s largest organisation of journalists. First established in 1926, it was relaunched in 1946 and again, in its present form, in 1952. Today the Federation represents around 600.000 members in more than 100 countries.
   • Paul B 5.2

     18 November 2011 at 1:31 pm

     Never heard of em !
     Another self centred/seeking union ?

     You’re obviously not a journalist. The IFJ is the worldwide journalists’ body and represents 600,000 journalists in 131 countries. They’re obviously very big on press freedom, it’s just they normally only have to deal with this sort of shit in places like China and Afghanistan.
     • mik e 5.2.1

       19 November 2011 at 11:55 am

       like business roundtable
   • Colonial Viper 5.3

     18 November 2011 at 1:31 pm

     lol

     watch our democracy drain away while laughing, fool
     • Jim Nald 5.3.1

       18 November 2011 at 1:42 pm

       Next step for Key:
       declare a state of emergency then sell of assets
       • freedom 5.3.1.1

         18 November 2011 at 2:13 pm

         all joking aside, i have some concern of a flase flag event in the lead up to or immediately after the Election, especially if the result looks to be swinging away from the Nats.

         there are enough loopholes in CERA for all sorts of madness if they so wished
6. vto 6

   18 November 2011 at 1:52 pm

   Worth repeating at this junction:

   “Anyone who is innocent has nothing to fear”: John Key regarding the recent Search & Surveillance Bill.

   Key is clearly in fear.

   Therefore he is not innocent.

   So goes the theory from those who promote covert recording of private and public conversations.
7. Longline 7

   18 November 2011 at 2:22 pm

   Akshully…this is just another in a line of Key’s anti-democratic actions. Arranging for a former National Party MPs to buy an independent political party (Act), depose their leader, then replace all their MPs with stooges, is banana-republic stuff too. I’m a NZer overseas, and I can assure you that New Zealand looks like a sad joke from here. Despite all the rhetoric, NZ is doing poorly economically too. I currently live in a place with 3.2% unemployment and where its easy to afford decent food. NZ just seems to go down hill every time I go there. I left in 2009 btw.
8. fmacskasy 8

   18 November 2011 at 2:31 pm

   Just to re-cap, John Key has managed to alienate and upset the following sectors in society and the international community,

   * the media
   * the police
   * elderly voters (through the “NZ First constituents dying off” comment)
   * people who’ve lost loved ones to suicide
   * Epsom voters
   * International Federation of Journalists (IFJ)

   Not bad running for a week’s work…
   • Jim Nald 8.1

     18 November 2011 at 2:34 pm

     John Key is ambitious
   • freedom 8.2

     18 November 2011 at 2:47 pm

     and now we know that on Tuesday he met with Anadarko, the company that brought us such recent hits as Deep horizon, the destruction of the Gulf of Mexico, and other environmental catastrophes.
     http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1111/S00360/john-key-needs-to-stop-deep-sea-oil-drilling.htm
     • fmacskasy 8.2.1

       18 November 2011 at 9:04 pm

       Freedom, there’s more to Anadarko than has been stated, thus far; http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/anadarko-key-playing-with-fire/

       Dealing with Anadarko (sounds like one of the Dark Lords of the Sith) is like playing with fire. (In the case of the Gulf of Mexico – literally.)
   • fender 8.3

     18 November 2011 at 5:45 pm

     I’d like to see the 50% of the nation who support this tosspot added to your list fmacskasy. I can’t understand why they favor this threat to our nations future.
     • fmacskasy 8.3.1

       18 November 2011 at 9:13 pm

       Sorely tempted, Fender, sorely tempted.

       As to why 50% still support him… buggered if I know. *shrugs*

       It’s like people are thinking about their rejection of asset sales with the left hemisphere of their brain, and enjoying Key’s charm with the right hemisphere. And unfortunately, neither hemisphere is talking to each other.
9. anne 9

   18 November 2011 at 3:17 pm

   Could John Key be afraid of the past?
   John Key has lost a job before because of leaked tapes,6.500 of them to be precise,
   Proctor & Gamble forced those tapes out into the open from Bankers Trust who John Key worked for,this came after a leverage derivative deal between Bankers Trust and Proctor & Gamble went sour when money was taken out of the deal prior to P&G taking over.
   One employee referring to the huge profits the Bankers Trust would make on the transaction,
   John key lost his job with Bankers Trust and the tapes exposed a thoroughly,fraudulently and corrupt entity.
   These revelation occured between 1993-1995 and can be easily found on the internet.
   • Hami Shearlie 9.1

     18 November 2011 at 11:02 pm

     And the vagueness he displays about exactly when he worked with Andrew Krieger (was it 1987 or 1988?),when Krieger in 1987 was conducting an attack on the NZ dollar. Krieger left Bankers Trust in February 1988. There’s something there that needs sniffing out!
10. The Pink Postman 10

    18 November 2011 at 3:29 pm

    What the hell is this ghastly PM playing at ? Has he completly lost the plot or is he on the threshhold of a breakdown. It’s more likely that the arrogant prick thinks he has complete power over all. He’s beginning to look like Muldoon. He needs to be stopped now. He is becoming a danger to our way of life. And since when have the police taken direct orders from parliament ? Is that not Fascism ?
    • coolas 10.1

      18 November 2011 at 4:39 pm

      Yep, it’s fascism all right. And it seems bizarre that any citizens of our country, which places so much emphasis on freedom, should choose to love authoritarian power, to personally desire the very thing that dominates and exploits. That’s the fucked up mentality that adores Key. Weak people love fascists ‘cos they represent the a part of themselves even though the fascist Key is fucking them over. Sad, sad, sad.
11. anne 11

    18 November 2011 at 3:33 pm

    For those interested look up ‘Bankers Trust 1995 on wikipedia.The media needs to expose this,its crucial.
    • freedom 11.1

      18 November 2011 at 4:11 pm

      Travellerev has a good piece here on that anne
      http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/
      • anne 11.1.1

        18 November 2011 at 4:36 pm

        Thanks for that,i haven’t finished reading but what struck me is that key is taking the same sort
        of response over ‘teagate’ as the Bankers Trust took when those wanting to question BT over fraud,
        Surely this material is crucial in this election and this revelation would be a game changer and
        expose Key for what he really is,just what the hell is he doing running our govt and country ,he was in it up to his neck and them some i bet.
        • travellerev 11.1.1.1

          19 November 2011 at 6:46 am

          Hi Anne here is another more extended analysis of his banking career:
          http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/open-letter-to-eugene-bingham-or-would-you-have-voted-for-john-key-if-you-had-known/
      • mik e 11.1.2

        19 November 2011 at 12:39 am

        berlesconmankey
        derivatives sales conman BT bankrupt
        derivatives trader Merrill Lynch bankrupt
        mumble mouth Prima Donna keewee prmincer NZ bankrupt
12. Bill 12

    18 November 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Since it’s perfectly legal to covertly tape a conversation if you are a party to it…and since the journalists were present and, presumably, interacting with the two Johnny’s, then at what point is it being claimed that one social interaction ended and a wholly new one began?

    If I’m recording a conversation and go to the toilet or walk outside for a breather, then I’m still a part of the conversation (except I missed a portion), no?

    Didn’t jounalists interact with the two Johnny’s when they arrived at the cafe, while they were in the cafe and also after they left the cafe? So, any ‘gap’ in their engagement is surely parallel with them going to the toilet or out for a breather.

    And if I’m interacting in any way with a conversation I’m recording and told to (say) go for a breather for whatever reason, then I’m still a part of the over all conversation and my recording of it perfectly legal, no?

    That’s my tuppence worth anyway.
13. Roy 13

    18 November 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Pink Postman is correct, Key is looking like Muldoon, but Muldoon took many more years in power to get to this level of arrogance and megalomania. Thus, IMHO, Key is worse.
    • mik e 13.1

      19 November 2011 at 12:06 pm

      Muldoom didn’t have MMP so was able to manipulate electoral boundaries and deny access to democratic process by cutting off the enrolment date by a month knowing poor people moved around alot more and didn’t change electorates denying 200,000 New Zealanders the right to vote
      But still managed to maintain power with a minority of the votes
      ConmanKey our Mankey primincer does have that luxury
      The media were his best and only friend now he has got himself into a very big hole at the wrong time
      The only hope he has is that his Teflon is thick enough to last till this coming Saturday the Day of Wreckoning
      Rena salvage crew are to busy to help
14. tsmithfield 14

    18 November 2011 at 8:09 pm

    I see that Ambrose is getting an urgent hearing next week. I wonder how he got the wheels of justice to move so much faster for him than for most people. Applying the same logic as expressed by many on this site, he must have bribed a judge or something.
    • kriswgtn 14.1

      18 November 2011 at 8:12 pm

      That’s a serious accusation dickhead

      care to back it up with some proof
      • tsmithfield 14.1.1

        18 November 2011 at 8:23 pm

        Not an accusation. Just a speculation based on applying lefty logic consistently. Notice how I started with “I wonder..” But its where lefty logic on this leads.

        E.g.: Key filed a complaint. The police moved quickly on Keys complaint.
        The police don’t normally move so quickly for other people. Therefore Key must have instructed the police to do it.

        Ambrose applied to the courts. The courts moved quickly to give him a hearing. The courts don’t move so quickly for other people. Therefore, Ambrose must have bribed a judge or something.

        Of course I don’t actually think that Ambrose bribed a judge, Kris, in case you couldn’t pick that up. However, this is where the logic leads.

        Stop being a moron.
        • McFlock 14.1.1.1

          18 November 2011 at 8:33 pm

          thin.
          But anyway, your original analogy was bullshit logic. The cops leapt to the investigation because it was the PM making the complaint. Because even if he was complaining in a private capacity, he’s still the PM. The courts have to leap to it because the cops are leaping to it, and for the courts to do otherwise would be a clear example of the system favouring the pm.
             
          And all because shonkey wanted to delay the release of the tapes by 14 days and panicked. I bet he thought he was being so fucking smart when he made the complaint.
           
          • tsmithfield 14.1.1.1.1

            18 November 2011 at 9:09 pm

            Aaah. I get it. John Key is not only the puppet master for the police. He also has the judicial system of this country at is beck and call as well. Do you believe the moon landing was faked?
            • McFlock 14.1.1.1.1.1

              18 November 2011 at 9:18 pm

              Not a puppet master. An idiot who digs himself a hole and solves that problem by digging even deeper.
                 
              Unless you’re suggesting no causal chain between the decision to have a private discussion at a media event and the possibility that a recording device is operating at that conversation (intentionally or otherwise). And it snowballs from there. And every move he makes is a push to speed up the snowball, rather than slow it down.
                
               
            • wtl 14.1.1.1.1.2

              18 November 2011 at 9:19 pm

              Anyone who can read knows that isn’t what McFlock said and you are blatantly misrepresentating what he said.
        • kriswgtn 14.1.1.2

          19 November 2011 at 7:56 am

          I would rather believe the Left than some RWNJ looney nutcase like urself

          You spend all day spinning in here even when deep down LOGIC STATES you know youre wrong

          Keep it up

          No amount of spin from RWNJ’s can dissolve the seriousness of this
        • mik e 14.1.1.3

          19 November 2011 at 11:04 am

          Like our great former media darlikey
          I bet you anything you like conman Key would like to travel back in time to unravel the continuing hole he’s dug him self
          After the election it’ll be bad news even if he wins the media are being bullied by tricKey and their over him
    • Lanthanide 14.2

      18 November 2011 at 8:48 pm

      I’m sure the urgent court action is only warranted due to:
      1. The timing of the election
      2. The intense public interest in this issue
      3. The actions of the police

      Similarly, because of 1 and 2, the police should not be doing what they’re trying to do.
      • tsmithfield 14.2.1

        18 November 2011 at 9:10 pm

        The first two points could also explain why the police acted so quickly Lanth.
        • wtl 14.2.1.1

          18 November 2011 at 9:16 pm

          You seem to have got it in your head that most here think that Key directed the police to acted as they did. But that isn’t the case. For example, have a look at the thread starting here. But you already knew that and are just making shit up.
          • tsmithfield 14.2.1.1.1

            18 November 2011 at 9:26 pm

            Nah. Actually, I was basing it on this article.

            Here is a quote from Eddie’s article.

            Incredibly, we face a situation where Police acting on the government’s instructions may soon be marching into newsrooms demanding their footage and sources.

            Are you prepared to recant?
            • McFlock 14.2.1.1.1.1

              18 November 2011 at 9:58 pm

              Fuck you’re a card. Eddie is “most here”? 
                
              Not to mention the fact that a bribe to a judge is a direct instruction, whereas what is actually happening is more of a PM complaint creates a chain of events that results in a search warrant served on media. I don’t recall anyone claiming Key calling a D and saying “search tv3 at 9am tomorrow”. But no complaint, no search. You slippery sliding bugger.
              • tsmithfield …

                18 November 2011 at 10:17 pm

                Perhaps this article from Lprent makes my point a bit further. Here is a quote from that article:

                But at present I get the impression that John Key has been taking lessons from Frank Bainimarama, Robert Mugabe and other doyens of democracy in how to use the police to try and intimidate the news media.

                Go and read the posts under those two articles. I think you will find quite a lot of agreement with the propositions that Eddie and Lprent have made.

                Are you prepared to recant?
                • McFlock …

                  18 November 2011 at 10:32 pm

                  No I’m not prepared to recant, because you’re taking shit out of context, putting it next to other shit out of context, and thereby implying that people are saying Key is issuing daily instructions to the investigating officers. Nobody said that anywhere, certainly not in any of your links.
                   
                  What several people, including myself, ARE saying is that Key is using the criminal justice system to affect the political process before an election. And this, along with the pointlessly dictatorial powers and exemption from judicial review in CERA, the ousting of democratically elected representative using ministerial powers, and similar actions by this government basically shows Key and his cabinet to be little better than Bainamarama or Mugabe. I shudder to think where we’ll be in 3 or 6 years time.
                   
                  I eagerly await your next contortioning of the english language as you defend the scum.
                  • tsmithfield …

                    19 November 2011 at 5:50 am

                    I never said that the view was that Key was issuing daily instructions. The term “puppet-master” was a bit over the top, but used to make a point. I also never said “most” hold these views. I said “many” if you re-read my original post.

                    My view of what has been promoted in the two posts I linked to ties up pretty much with your statement here:

                    What several people, including myself, ARE saying is that Key is using the criminal justice system to affect the political process before an election. And this, along with the pointlessly dictatorial powers and exemption from judicial review in CERA, the ousting of democratically elected representative using ministerial powers, and similar actions by this government basically shows Key and his cabinet to be little better than Bainamarama or Mugabe. I shudder to think where we’ll be in 3 or 6 years time.

                    What you appear to be saying is that Key is exerting control of the government system for the specific benefit of himself and his government. That is not that far short of what I was saying, even in my exaggerated position.
                    • conorjoe …

                      19 November 2011 at 8:54 am

                      you wrote a ‘post’? where?
                    • McFlock …

                      19 November 2011 at 3:19 pm

                      lol

                      I never said that the view was that Key was issuing daily instructions. The term “puppet-master” was a bit over the top, but used to make a point.

                       So you never said it, except for the bit where you did.
                       

                      What you appear to be saying is that Key is exerting control of the government system for the specific benefit of himself and his government. That is not that far short of what I was saying, even in my exaggerated position

                      The difference being that you never miss a trick to suggest that people here are saying that key is issuing direct instructions to all concerned. Basically to say that we’re nutjob conspiracists. So go fuck yourself.
                • wtl …

                  18 November 2011 at 10:46 pm

                  I stand by my original statement, I agree that Eddie may have said something akin to what you are implying, but certainly not McFlock, Sprout, Lanthanide and many others here. I will also add lprent to this list, because my reading of lprent’s statement is that Key used the police to intimidate the journalist involved through his position (which meant that the police had to respond promptly and in an unusual manner). lprent does not say that Key is controlling police directly or that Key is a ‘puppet master’ of the police, as you put it above. If I were you, I would be very careful putting to not put words into his mouth.
                  • tsmithfield …

                    19 November 2011 at 6:18 am

                    Maybe. But we are getting into semantics. But you have been mis-representing my views by putting words into my mouth. The links I pointed to certainly suggested that Key exerted inappropriate influence over government officials.

                    When statements are made such as you have; i.e. “Key used the police” for his own particular purpose, then it is really getting to the point where an accusation is being made about inappropriate, nearly criminal relationships between elected people and government officials. That is a really heavy thing to allege, and I don’t think people should be doing so without some fairly hard evidence.

                    I will restate my original point leaving out the emotive adjectives.

                    Here is the point I was trying to make again:

                    Just because justice moves quickly in one situation is not evidence of inappropriate influence by an elected person over government officials.

                    If this were the case, then the same allegation could be made against Ambrose who also managed to get the wheels of justice moving very quickly for his purposes, which were stated as needing action because his work situation was being affected.

                    So, in my opinion, you need to have very convincing evidence to back up a view before claiming things such as Key acting like Mugabe or whatever.
                    • tsmithfield …

                      19 November 2011 at 8:09 am

                      And before you start accusing me of putting words in your mouth, in my last sentence I meant “you” in the general sense, not you spefically.
        • Lanthanide 14.2.1.2

          18 November 2011 at 10:09 pm

          I never said the police shouldn’t act quickly. I said the police shouldn’t be doing what they’re trying to do. It’s right there in my post. I can only assume you don’t have very good reading comprehension.

          They haven’t even interviewed Ambrose and yet they’re trying to search media outlets. That seems quite wrong.
          • tsmithfield 14.2.1.2.1

            19 November 2011 at 7:41 am

            I think there is no point in the police going any further now until after Ambrose’s hearing. That would be a waste of police time and resources.
15. Jester 15

    18 November 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Take about memory loss. I just about pissed myself reading this.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Goff-passes-off-not-knowing-numbers-as-secrecy/tabid/419/articleID/233235/Default.aspx
    • Lanthanide 15.1

      18 November 2011 at 8:51 pm

      This is pretty akin to asking someone in a job interview something that you would normally just search on google for whenever you needed to know it. There’s no point devoting brain space to information that is best kept on paper to be referred to as necessary.

      This, to me, just seems like TV3 trying to ‘inject balance’ into their coverage of the election because of the tea tapes.
    • Carol 15.2

      18 November 2011 at 8:59 pm

      Maybe Goff should just do what Key does… make up/guess the figures, because even when the figure changes at each utterance of them, the MSM journos don’t question them.
16. Jester 16

    18 November 2011 at 8:58 pm

    I would have thought that considering JK tied him in knots in the debate with the show me the money comment, Phil would have made sure he was on the ball and prepared this time.
    Policy not personality I heard.
17. DJL 17

    18 November 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Funny how TV3 did not run a politicial headline about this, just an ambush from Duncan Garner about 78 millions worth. All the while the nats can’t tell us how much net we can expect from the asset sales and where the money is going to go .Because key doesn’t do the hard questions. Just giving johnny boy the night off from making the country and the office of its PM look like a joke.
18. anne 18

    18 November 2011 at 9:40 pm

    John Key had been involved with the biggest attack on the nz dollar in history and lied about it 20yrs later.
    John Key had been involved in the asian crisis,the russian crisis and the LTCM hedgefund collapse
    John Key is one of the architects of the subprime crisis and lied about his involvement.
    Late in 1987 Andrew Krieger attacked the nz dollar.
    He earned for the Bankers Trust $338 million in just a few days,Key was also involved.
    The attack was so threatening to the dollar and the economy that the then Governer of the
    Reserve Bank made a call to the Bankers Trust in New York to stop the attack.
    Key lies about his involvement,however his involvement can be proved.
    Most nz’ers would not be aware just who is John Key,this is how he has made his
    money and not by doing a hard days work,his lies continue,his devious planning for
    absolute control of the purse strings of the nz economy continue,he is leading nz’s
    economy to the brink while feathering his own nest,no wonder he is pressing
    for the tapes to be blocked,there is probably alot of information he definatley
    doesn’t want the public to know.
    more here
    http://aotearoaawiderprespective.wordpress.com
19. Afewknowthetruth 19

    18 November 2011 at 10:55 pm

    The unravelling of the international financial system has to be kept off the political agenda until after the election.

    The ‘storm in a teacup’ will serve its purpose, of keeping the proles distracted from the real game and selling newspapers.

    Meanwhile, the real action is taking place in the international bond markets.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2011/nov/18/eurozone-crisis-spain-markets-cameron-merkel

    Couple that with the globally declining oil supply, the immediate energy crisis in Japan, the ‘end of growth’, burgeonong unemployment and the burgeoning loss of confidence in the system

    http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EN225

    and it is easy to see why it is so important for the criminal elites who run NZ (and the western world) to keep the truth well hiddden for as long as possible and keep the proles distracted. (That comment applies to ALL political parties, of course, but especially to the one currently in power).
    • Lanthanide 19.1

      18 November 2011 at 11:43 pm

      AFKTT, part of your problem is that you’re assuming there’s some grand plan in place to “[keep] the proles distracted from the real game”.

      Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        20 November 2011 at 10:17 am

        Italy is going to lose its thousands of tonnes of gold at supercheap rates to the bankers, now that an unelected Bilderberg and Trilateral Commission member is running Italy.

        This specific outcome mate, did not happen by “co-incidence” nor by “stupidity”.
20. crite40 20

    18 November 2011 at 11:21 pm

    All these conspiracy theories. All completely wrong.
    The only reality is that in their obsession with growth at all costs, the “rulers” of the world are just beginning to wake up to what they have created.
    They have allowed uncontrolled population growth to a point where the human race is no longer a sustainable entity.
    What they are hiding from us is their fear and the fact that they have no answers.
    All these cups of tea (and I was impressed by the “privacy” of the two John’s situation see .jpg), are them simply trying to keep on top while the economic and political crisis rapidly approaches.
    If I were Phil Goff I would be VERY grateful NOT to be in power over the next 3 years.
    But I would get rid of Annette King before she makes the Labour vote even lower.

    As for John Key I’m pretty sure that he will go down in NZ history like Rob Muldoon, Julius Vogel and Gordon Coates. That might finally wipe the smirk (I would hardly call it a smile) off his face.
    As for me I won’t be volting for any of the 3 main parties. Even the Greens don’t understand the situation.
    • Afewknowthetruth 20.1

      18 November 2011 at 11:45 pm

      crite-40.

      The ‘growth at all costs’ is necessary to maintain the bankers’ Fractional Reserve and Compund Interst Ponzi scheme, of course; hence the bankers didn’t ‘allow’ the population to increase, they encouraged it.

      We are clearly not far from the end of the road, now that all the easily extracted energy resources have been extracted and burned, and we are dependent on difficult and costly sources of energy that have a poor EROEI.

      And every day that passes screws the environment a bit more.

      Like you, I have no faith in any of the mainstream parties to deal with any of it.

      And like you, I can see that who ever ‘wins’ will win a poisoned chalice.

      It’s interesting that you too see the morphing of Key into a psychotic, Mudoonian megalomaniac.

      ‘But I would get rid of Annette King before she makes the Labour vote even lower.’ 🙂
      • McFlock 20.1.1

        18 November 2011 at 11:53 pm

        So what are you going to do about it?
        • Afewknowthetruth 20.1.1.1

          19 November 2011 at 12:28 am

          McFlock

          ‘So what are you going to do about it?’

          Very little now.

          I knew this was coming a decade ago and after wasting thousands of hours and a substantial amount of energy and money trying to warn people who weren’t interested in their own futures. i.e. the vast majority, I gave up. I gave up making presentations to corrupt councils who were only interested in rorts and disaster-as-usual. I gave up writing letters to corrupt and inept politicians.

          I made what personal preparations I could more than 5 years ago.

          I still speak the truth to the tiny minority of people who are slightly awake, and sell a few books.

          The main preparation at this time is psychological – being psychologically prepared for collapse of the system and being psychologically prepared for the mayhem that will ensue because most people refused to heed the warnings.

          Writing the truth on Internet forums is a hobby. But I don’t normally waste too much time on it unless the weather is bad.
          • mik e 20.1.1.1.1

            19 November 2011 at 12:45 am

            AFEW conspiracy theories are for the mentally ill the real world is not perfect
            its highly competitive escapism of any kind saves having to recognize that fact
            • mike 20.1.1.1.1.1

              19 November 2011 at 1:47 am

              “conspiracy theories are for the mentally ill”

              This is a dangerous generalization in light of the fact that real conspiracies have been uncovered in the past. While it’s true that certain mentally ill people are delusionally paranoid, that doesn’t mean that all paranoid people are delusional.
              • mik e …

                19 November 2011 at 12:10 pm

                Afews previous attempts have proven that he is nothing more than a soothsayer. his last attempt at scaremongering was that worlds stock market would crash and burn in October! Still waiting
          • McFlock 20.1.1.1.2

            19 November 2011 at 12:58 am

            Well, if we’re all headed to extinction and it’s completely unavoidable, what do you hope to achieve? Seriously?
              
            You’d be a ball of fun doing volunteer work at a hospice.
            • Afewknowthetruth 20.1.1.1.2.1

              19 November 2011 at 8:45 am

              McFlock

              ‘Seriously?’

              Are yiu sure you know the meaning of the word?

              ‘if we’re all headed to extinction and it’s completely unavoidable’

              You must mean this:

              http://guymcpherson.com/2011/02/extinction-event/

              However, extinction may not be completely unavoidable for humanity at this point of time. Some remnant of humanity may hang on to subsistence living, depending on the severity of climate positive feedbacks). Note that Guy McPherson spends a lot of time working to try to educate the ignorant fools that make up the bulk of society. The immediate problem is the collapse of industrial food system, whichw ill wipe out several billion.

              Whether self-annihilation via abrupt climate change is inevitable or not, it makes a lot of sense to be as prepared as possible for the economic and energetic metldowns that will occur long before the Earth loses its capaicity to support mammalian life forms.

              The moral imperitive is to do one’s best to provide one’s grandchildren with a future in the face of the insanity that constitutes maninstream culture.

              Most NZers don’t seem to know what morality is, let alone a moral imperitive.

              I think your reference to hospice work demonstrates your total lack of taste.
              • McFlock …

                19 November 2011 at 5:22 pm

                I just don’t get why you seem to get off on doomsaying with no constructive comments about adaptation or prevention. That is what I regard as tasteless.
    • The Pink Postman 20.2

      19 November 2011 at 2:56 pm

      Dont put Key in the same class as Vogel and Coates .Vogel paved the way for most of the infrastructure in NZ, Coates was just unfortunate to have the depression Thrust on him. No Key should be classed with Muldoon and Holland dangerous men and Key is the most dangerous . If he has a majority government all hell will be let loose .
      • crite40 20.2.1

        19 November 2011 at 5:00 pm

        Lokk a bit closer Pink Postman. Sure Vogel spent big on infrastructure. In fact he overspent so much he caused a severe depression in the 1870’s.
        Coates may not have caused the depression but he had no Earthly idea of what to do about it. Just like most NZ politicians he just went along with the same
        tried (and failed) economic theory of the time.
        • Colonial Viper 20.2.1.1

          20 November 2011 at 10:14 am

          ahem. the idea that vogel caused that depression is daft. concentration of wealth in nz society caused that depression. sorted out with land confiscations in the 1890’s.
21. primdim 21

    18 November 2011 at 11:41 pm

    http://i44.tinypic.com/30nhvl1.png
    with apologies to bear grylls
    • Afewknowthetruth 21.1

      18 November 2011 at 11:59 pm

      primdim

      🙂

      It is a clear indication of the gullibility of NZers that anyone takes either of those clowns at all seriously.
22. mike 22

    19 November 2011 at 1:10 am

    I still say this whole thing could be a Nat stunt to avoid talking about real issues. Neither Key nor Banks thought anything of the conspicuous black pouch on the table? Wtf?

    Labour was getting some traction on asset sales. But both the party and the issue became irrelevant during the teapot media frenzy. However for Nat it may have backfired in Epsom, and let Winston jump on the bus. Winston’s ‘leaks’ havn’t really been earth-shattering, but he has made himself relevant. A certain news organization told us the tape was “explosive” and a “game-changer”, the same news organization that many on this site have complained about loving Key for yonks. From there the story took off.

    Labour has lost ground while the John Key Party still threatens to govern alone. But their handling of this re search warrants for media orgs, could (and should) yet hurt National some more. Maybe they got carried away, complaining to the police to keep the story going.

    Just a possible theory, I’m not saying I believe it, and I hope it’s wrong. Either way the shaky strain is clearly showing on Key. This is strike two, three credibility downgrades and you’re out.
23. anne 23

    19 November 2011 at 9:03 am

    There needs to be strategic voting in this election to keep key and national out,for the sake of the people and the economy,also our freedoms.
    Some may have to hold their nose and vote for a party they wouldn’t normally vote for,if key and his cronies can do it,so can we.
    National and Key need to be kept out at all costs.
24. Karl Sinclair 24

    19 November 2011 at 11:01 am

    Look on the flip side, at the least the Police will have the evidence that Keys and Banks are less than, shall we say, Gentlemen………..
    • mik e 24.1

      19 November 2011 at 12:11 pm

      In a word mankey
25. randal 25

    19 November 2011 at 12:17 pm

    hey I bet he calls the cops when he loses the election.
26. mik e 26

    19 November 2011 at 2:36 pm

    The Keystone cops as he has made Right fool of himself he’ll probably have himself arrested for loosing the unloose able election
27. anne 27

    19 November 2011 at 11:58 pm

    I went searching and found something interesting,nz is mentioned in this article a few times,i will add it to this when i finish this paragraph.
    Evesdropping, whether by the use of one’s ears or anothers ears or by some technological device
    ,may not be socially acceptable,but it is not illegal per se.

    http://guyanaundersiege.com/security
    You will need to scroll some of the way down,a very interesting article though.
28. anne 28

    20 November 2011 at 10:05 am

    Out of interest i sent 3 e-mails to Q&A supporting phil goff with 3 different name tags,none of them got posted on tv,only those in support of national got posted,so thats a balanced and fair
    media huh.

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