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How to: Pick an Excuse for Not doing Anything About Poverty

Written By: - Date published: 11:08 am, December 12th, 2013 - 97 comments
Categories: benefits, capitalism, class war, cost of living, economy, Economy, employment, poverty, socialism, tax, uncategorized, welfare - Tags:

Right wing, excuses reasons, for not doing anything about children in poverty.

1. “It costs too much”.
2. “Taxation is theft”.
3. “They are not as poor as they are in (Insert a third world Nation with less than half our GDP, and a 10th of our resources per capita)”.
4. “The statistics are wrong”.
5. “It is not as many as they claim”.
6. “You can’t get rid of poverty by giving people money”.
7. “I was in a poor persons house and they had “Chocolate biscuits, a colour TV, or, horrors, a bottle of beer”!!
8. “It’s all those solo mothers on the DPB breeding for a living”.
9. “I know a person who…………..”
10. “It is a choice they make”.
11. “It is people who make poor choices”.
12. “They shouldn’t have had kids they couldn’t afford”.
13. “Why should “I” pay for other peoples kids”.
14. “The centre will never vote for it”.
15. “We will do something if finances allow”.
16. “Giving them money made them poor”.
17. “Those socialists made them poor by giving them benefits”.
18. “I pay enough taxes”.
19. “There are no poor in New Zealand”.
20. “Not now, later!”

97 comments on “How to: Pick an Excuse for Not doing Anything About Poverty”

  1. scotty 1

    21. Not educated.

    Cos if everyone had a degree , the wages for lowly paid service jobs would increase overnight.

    • um..!.just as a bit of an historical-tidy-up..(just so we can get things/nationals’-inaction into some kind of perspective/context..)

      ..how about a listing of the excuses from labour/those who were there…

      ..for those nine long years of the clark govt/labour doing nothing about poverty..?

      ..that could be both useful and enlightening..

      ..eh..?

      ..and while we are there..cd anyone give us the date that labour renounced/denounced that poverty-neglect/inaction..?

      ..what’s that i hear you say..?..they haven’t yet..?

      ..they are..to date..a mea culpa-free zone..?

      ..that’s a bit of a worry..eh..?

      ..phillip ure..

      • phillip ure 1.1.1

        and of course..that decade of labours’/clarks’ inaction/stigmatising of the poorest..

        ..could not have prepared the ground better – for what then bennett wrought..

        ..eh..?

        ..phillip ure..

    • Francis 1.2

      Yep. Instead of having a minimum wage job, they’d have a minimum wage job and a huge student debt.

  2. Paul 2

    22. The money will trickle down…

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    23. I was poor too once, but after a bit of honest hard work I’m now a multi-millionaire.

  4. Rogue Trooper 4

    Midday Report:
    Reserve Bank- Interest rates highly likely to rise in March, or thereabouts. Will continue to rise in the order of 2% over the next two years; rising consumer spending and construction activity. “Inflation pressures building” -Wheeler
    Here’s some ‘excuses’-
    Grocery price rises this year
    -Milk 67%
    -Butter 23%
    -Cheese 5%
    -Chicken 8%
    -Beef / Lamb around 4% (was distracted by the implications).

    The squeeze is tightening it’s grip, as those cups are applied to more udders.

    PS, encouraging quote heading your blog KJT

    • KJT 4.1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiderata

      I try to live up to it. Not always as successfully as I would like!

      I also like the seafaring version of Kipling.
      “If you can keep your head, when all about you are losing theirs” You don’t know what the fuck is going on!

      • Rogue Trooper 4.1.1

        helpful to have some guidance when all at sea. Minimises the frequency of ‘rants’, although, they relieve the boiler pressure . 😀 : aye aye , it’s a sailor’s life to be.

  5. Balanced View 5

    Until initiatives are put in place to restrict welfare abuse, the wider public will forever be reluctant to support the poor, especially when they are struggling themselves.
    I haven’t met anyone that isn’t prepared to help someone that is willing to help themselves, and this would include the right wingers you refer to in your unhelpful article.

    • KJT 5.1

      Yeah. Right!

    • KJT 5.2

      Welfare abuse.
      Less than 0.6%. And most of it was by WINZ staff, or someone who forgot to tell them a minor detail. A few mill a year.

      Tax dodging. By those who refuse to pay their fair share. No one knows, but definitely in the billions.

      No 24. ” There are thousands dishonestly ripping off the welfare system”.

      Complaining about a person who, mostly mistakenly, gets a few hundred more in welfare than their measly entitlements, often because of a WINZ staff mistake, compared to someone who rips us off for hundred of thousands by fudging their tax accounts.

      • phillip ure 5.2.1

        welfare rip=offs = $23 million per yr..

        ..tax-rip-offs by corporates/elites/1% = $2.5 billion per yr..

        (there is yr ending/solving-poverty-solution right there..)

        ..phillip ure..

        • Balanced View 5.2.1.1

          This is a separate argument. And one I agree with.
          But this should not be aligned at all to the poverty debate.

          • McFlock 5.2.1.1.1

            It’s relevant in that it illustrates how some people advocate the complete elimination of an already small rate of welfare offending, yet ignore a substantially larger rate of white-collar offending.

            But I guess that just as they believe in the “deserving poor”, they also believe in the “deserving criminal”.

          • Frank Macskasy 5.2.1.1.2

            “But this should not be aligned at all to the poverty debate.”

            Rubbish.

            It is INTRINSIC to the poverty “debate”. Though why anyone would be debating poverty rather than addressing it escapes me.

            It is intrinsic because the above are excuses employed by those with rightwing inclinations to choose not to address this growing problem.

            It is intrinsic because these are all cliches which give those who parrot them an excuse to do precisely nothing.

            Your ‘beef’, BV is that KJT has called you and others like you on these cliched excuses and you can’t handle it.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.2.2

        No 25. The wealthy in society must be given freedom to make money on their money and do whatever they want because we depend on them for our wellbeing

        …we depend on them because they have so much money because we give them the freedom to increase their wealth regardless of what effect that has on the rest of us.

    • Arfamo 5.3

      The problem is how do you define welfare abuse?

      Giving tax breaks to corporates, bailing out failed finance companies with taxpayer money, giving tax cuts to the wealthy, lowering real incomes in the face of cost increases as well as reducing job protections and conditions and effectively increasing taxes (with hidden levies and gst increases) on those who have the lowest incomes is basically abusing their welfare.

      • Rogue Trooper 5.3.1

        Key, Joyce and Bennett would say “it’s all semantics”.

        • Arfamo 5.3.1.1

          So – fine, I’m anti-semantic, and I don’t mind admitting it. 🙂

          • Rogue Trooper 5.3.1.1.1

            to the point. I experience a regular struggle to not loathe, despise and critique Tories, Conservatives and Libertarians, yet I overcome it. 😀

            • Arfamo 5.3.1.1.1.1

              Fair enough. Can I interest you in a tumbril or a guillotine? Just as a possible investment for the future. Get in now while they’re cheap. You can maybe onsell them or rent them out to disgruntled mobs at some point in the maybe not too distant future?

              • Rogue Trooper

                ‘tumbrel’; reluctantly, even Ellul had to reconcile his Christianity with revolutionary violence. Could need troopers to lead the horses. 😉

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4

      @ Balanced View
      Until people realise the interconnected nature of our society where one person’s freedom can affect another’s freedom then we will continue to have people who don’t understand that there is a large chunk of people in this country who are not placed in a good position to create a ‘good life’ for themselves due to our enabling of licentious behaviour for a few in our society.

      Realising the interconnected nature of our circumstances leads to the realisation that helping people in poor circumstances lifts the quality of life of most people in society (apart from those who are creaming it as things are now)

      Whereas when ‘competition’ and ‘dog eat dog’ are the standard messages we receive and live by then there will continue to be only a few ‘dogs’ at the top and increasing numbers of people who are at the bottom of the heap ‘competing’ with one another and suffering for no reason other than the misguided and alienating attitudes we are fed and believe by those who are ‘winning’ as things stand and that are creating this state of inequity – because they benefit from it.

      So ‘Balanced View’, why do you mention welfare abuse and not have tax evasion foremost in your mind – because if everyone paid their fair share then there would be more money flowing to create jobs and less being hidden away doing jackshit apart from raising prices of everything via the futures market and there would not be a problem with joblessness nor welfare ‘costs’.

      • Balanced View 5.4.1

        I’m pointing out WHY a lot of people are reluctant to provide additional welfare, after all, that’s fundamentally what this article is about.
        I wasn’t discussing HOW to pay for it, or HOW to reduce poverty.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4.1.1

          Yes Balanced View I did get what you were saying, and I am asking why you [and others] don’t focus on things that would actually serve people.

          • Balanced View 5.4.1.1.1

            Why the assumption that I don’t?
            In fact that is why I commented on this. Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument, making the solutions harder to achieve.

            • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.1.1.1

              Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument

              Fuck off, there is no “other side of the argument” relating to ensuring economic justice for all NZers.

              You either hold that as a value, or you don’t. And you don’t.

              • Balanced View

                Clearly there is an opposing view, or you wouldn’t be so angry all of the time 🙂
                If there’s no willingness to understand each other’s view in a sensible and pragmatic way, the gap between views will never be bridged.

                • McFlock

                  we understand your view.

                  You oppose the microscopic amount of welfare fraud, but seem to ignore tax evasion.

                  • Balanced View

                    Obviously you don’t understand my view, I don’t ignore tax evasion, executive salaries, monopolistic industries or any other facet of inequality.

                    • McFlock

                      You don’t seem to oppose them, though, especially compared to your comments on welfare fraud.

                    • Balanced View

                      Actually I don’t think I mentioned welfare fraud.
                      But anyway, Your mistake is thinking that a comment about wishing that some of the poor would make better decisions is somehow endorsing corporate tax avoidance. That is incorrect.

                    • McFlock

                      sorry, welfare “abuse”.

                      Fucking obnoxious, people getting their full legislated entitlements.

                      I never said you “endorse” tax evasion (not “avoidance, which is also shit, “evasion”). But you’re always so quick to raise the matter of welfare “abuse”/fraud, displaying a keenness that you don’t similarly show when white collar fraud comes up.

                      Anyway, I’m off to bed too.

                    • Balanced View

                      Ahh we’ll i do that as a lone voice on right leaning blogs like whale oil. No need to do it here, 40 others would beat me to it.
                      Goodnight Flocker.

                • Colonial Viper

                  If there’s no willingness to understand each other’s view in a sensible and pragmatic way, the gap between views will never be bridged.

                  And thus it shall be. So?

                  • Balanced View

                    And that CV, in my opinion is your problem. You’d rather have a “hung jury” in holding out for what you see is right, than compromise a little in order to make progress on the issue.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Huh? Are you an MP with a casting vote in Parliament?

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      @ Balanced View
                      Oh well…I missed that conversation, however if you are still around Balanced View – I made no assumption re your not focussing on things that would actually serve people – you chose to write a comment to point out an issue regarding welfare abuse, however made no mention of the much more costly phenomenon of tax abuse.

                      To be frank I agree that what you wrote is probably how some people think and I was suggesting that instead of buying into this way of thinking it might be more helpful to look at what can be done to really improve things. Informing those who hold such views on what is really going on would be a good start.

                      It really isn’t reasonable at all to say ‘Until initiatives are put in place to restrict welfare abuse’

                      Where have you been in the last year [even]??

                      There are plenty of initiatives in place to restrict welfare abuse and if people are still thinking there aren’t or want more then it really seems like some type of obsessive-compulsive disorder going on in the way such people are thinking.

                      Here is an initiative that has been in place for decades. If you rip off the system for $20 such as work a few hours and not let Winz know and are caught you are expected to pay back the entire benefit you’ve received – not solely the $20. This is why the cited dollar ‘amounts’ of benefit fraud are so high. People aren’t physically ripping off the system as much as is stated- what is stated is the amount they have to pay back. This in itself is a huge deterrent from not declaring what one has earned.

                      When the amounts of dollars in tax fraud is cited I suspect [unclear – but think this is so] that the amounts cited – 1-6 Billion- is the amount being ripped off – unlike benefit fraud where the amounts are deceptively inflated – so the real costs to this country re tax fraud is even greater than that of welfare fraud than has recently come to light.

                      It was interesting to hear on parliament channel last week a Labour member (Andrew Little if I recall correctly – yet might be wrong!) explaining that benefit fraud has commonly been targeted because it is easier to discover – tax fraud is trickier to uncover. I emphasise the point that it is not because welfare fraud is more damaging or a greater problem that there has been a focus on it – simply [according to that speaker] that it is easier to uncover and ‘score points’ with. ‘Look we are doing something’.

                      Sadly this has the effect of making the general population believe that there is a huge problem with welfare recipients and creating very little awareness on how vast the problem is with tax abuse. A very false fixation has developed.

                      You and others can carry on explaining why welfare abuse is worth commenting on whenever poverty comes up -yet I hope what I write goes some way to helping you understand such explanations provide very little progress when poverty is being discussed or on what is causing the most damage to general wealth in this country. You would be better speaking with those of your friends who hold such views and informing them on how small the numbers really are.

                      [lprent: He picked up a ban in the post about Jason Ede and Cameron Slater.

                      He was trying the plausible deniability technique (“I didn’t actually state what it looked like”) whilst trying to tell us how to run our site – which is on the list of self-martyrdom offences.

                      Plausible deniability may be a good trick in political forums and debating. But it is bloody lethal when I look at it. I also look at why they feel the need to use it and I usually come up with the answer of “troll”. It is actually safer to say what you think here than it is to try to insinuate it.

                      You’ll notice that Balanced View always tries to insinuate a viewpoint than simply stating his own views? ]

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      guess your “Balanced View” balanced you off the pendulum.

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      Thanks for the explanation lprent – I had been reading that thread, however must have missed the banning of Balanced View.

                      Rogue Trooper LOL!

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      I only returned to read your comment and acknowledge the thought that went into it. (now I’m getting tired, gardening in the hot sun ….)

                    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                      Thanks Rogue Trooper 🙂

            • Arfamo 5.4.1.1.1.2

              The problem is BV telling us some people are reluctant to provide more welfare for whatever reason is stating the obvious. So unless you have some solutions to propose what is the point of commenting? If you don’t have any practical suggestions for how to reduce poverty why bother.

              • Balanced View

                Did you read the article? Why bother? My point exactly.

                • Arfamo

                  Yeah, I did. Before I replied to you. I wanted to see how many you ticked off.

                  I reckon yours are 1, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17.

                  • Balanced View

                    Excellent, then you’ll agree that the article by Karol was pointless.
                    Actually, I would in some part tick off all except 1,2,15,18,20

                    • Arfamo

                      Well, no, I think the article was on point. And you are the perfect illustration of the point. But you can’t see that. Do you see what I mean?

                    • McFlock

                      If you’re that predictable, then it seems some do understand your point of view.

                      Unfortunately, your point of view is a promontory overlooking a sea of despair and self-absorption. If you look to your left you’ll see a flower-laden path to a distant but sunny field where children play and lambs frolic to the sound of Beethoven’s Pastorale.

                  • McFlock

                    tory bingo 🙂

                    • Balanced View

                      Arfamo – so me pointing out reasons why some people are reluctant to help children in poverty is pointless, but an article pointing out reasons why some people are reluctant to help children in poverty was on point? Hmmmm

                    • Arfamo

                      Yes. Exactly. But I see that the significance of who these “some people” are escapes you, and it is late, very late. So I will bid you good night.

                    • Balanced View

                      Goodnight, thanks for the debate

            • Frank Macskasy 5.4.1.1.1.3

              “In fact that is why I commented on this. Articles like this are inflammatory and tend to polarise opinions on both sides of the argument,…”

              Oh, BV, you have such a blinkered view. I’d say opinjons are already polarised – especially on right wing websites where commentary on welfare beneficiaries can only be described as hate speech.

              The polarisation is there for anyone with the eyes to see and the neuron-connectivity to understand.

              KJT has taken many of the comments used in polarised comments and shown them up for what they are; mindless cliches to be parrotted ad nauseum, in lieu of actual thinking.

              You can’t for one moment tell us that you’ve never seen those remarks made on websites like Trademe, Whaleoil, Kiwiblog, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc…

              What is really troubling is that you’re more interested in KJT’s insight rather than what this whole issue is about; growing poverty and income inequality in this country.

              Wait, let me guess “throwing money at the problem, yada yada yada…”

        • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.2

          I’m pointing out WHY a lot of people are reluctant to provide additional welfare

          Social welfare for corporates and big investors is OK though, just so we are clear.

          • Balanced View 5.4.1.2.1

            Off topic here CV. Another issue entirely.

            • Colonial Viper 5.4.1.2.1.1

              Rubbish. The topic is social welfare. You begrudge a beneficiary getting an additional thirty dollars pw but suddenly have no comment when it comes to corporates getting millions in sweetheart deals, or big investors getting bailed out 100 cents on the dollar plus interest.

              • Balanced View

                Wrong and wrong

                • Colonial Viper

                  You have a problem with a $200,000M GDP country spending a measley extra $300M pa on welfare to lift NZers and their children out of poverty?

                  What the fuck is your problemo?

                  • Balanced View

                    No, I don’t think I ever said I have a problem with the cost. I’d happily pay 100 times that if it was going to people in genuine need.
                    But I do have a problem with it going to people that continue to make decisions that restricts their own ability to move out of a vulnerable position. Fix/prevent that and I’ll support it all the way.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Bull shit.

                      Anyways your support is neither requested nor required.

                    • infused

                      Nope, can’t have people accountable.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Fine. Provide 100,000 new decent paying full time jobs and make people fully accountable for performing in the roles, then.

                    • But I do have a problem with it going to people that continue to make decisions that restricts their own ability to move out of a vulnerable position.”

                      What is the percentage of those people you refer to?

                      If you can’t provide that data, then you position is untenable as it relies on prejudice, not reality.

                      The fact is that that sentiment of Un-deserving Poor vs Deserving Poor is one of the cliches used by those who have a resentment against the welfare system, and denigrate all recipients based on a stereotype rather than reality.

                      Let me frame it this way; if we had enough jobs (and jobs with decent hours and pay, not McJobs that keep people trapped in poverty) for everyone – how many Deserving Poor would be employed, leaving only Undeserving Poor left?

                      (I seriously doubt you can answer that question in any meaningful way that provides actual figures – but I thought it only fair to ask. Surprise me.)

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      so productive of excuses; Post’s objective achieved.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.4.2

        Balanced View is delusional: pays lip service to the Tory mantra of “poor choices” – a callous and utterly discredited meme that only a dupe or a liar would still trot out.

        Which is it BV: are you too fucking stupid to understand that “poor choices” are not the reason for poverty, or do you know that and lie about it like low-life trash? Where’s your personal responsibility for your mendacious drivel?

      • Lloyd 5.4.3

        Actually even the people who are creaming the top of the economy may well be better off in the long run if they give a little of the cream to the poorest in the economy. This can be by taxes or by benevolence.
        Social welfare prevents social instability. You can’t enjoy your excessive profits if a revolution occurs triggered by gross inequities.
        Even before such massive social upheavals inequities drive crime and even the super-rich are affected.
        Poverty is a reservoir for all those third world diseases we hear New Zealand shouldn’t have. The thing about infectious diseases is that they are infectious. Again even the mega-rich are more likely to get the diseases of poverty if they are rife in the poorest classes.
        When an economy is booming the richest get richer, as does everybody else. The best way to get an economy humming is to make sure the poorest in society have enough money to spend on all their basic needs, as the poor have to spend the money straight away, which gets the economy spinning.

        • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.4.3.1

          I thoroughly agree with you Lloyd and find it odd that the wealthiest ( who are the ones benefiting the most from this system) are trashing the system by their insistence on not sharing and having it all!

  6. Balanced View 6

    I didn’t say dishonestly ripping off the system. It’s about taking actions to improve your position, or to reduce your dependence on others. Your stats don’t include that.

    • Rogue Trooper 6.1

      for a start, you equate poor with welfare recipient…, and that’s just for starters.

      • Balanced View 6.1.1

        Not necessarily, but including welfare yes.

        • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.1

          Balanced View, or bay view? Furthermore, concerning “improving their position”, we live a comparatively unforgiving and risk-averse ‘market’ environment, wherein folk face many external barriers to “improvement” beyond their own efforts. Can be very difficult for people with episodes of “going off the tracks” in their history to re-enter the employment market, regardless of how extensive their CV, qualifications, experience and obvious talent.

          • Balanced View 6.1.1.1.1

            And I’m sympathetic to these people, and would have no problem in supporting them.
            However, I am less sympathetic to people that are struggling that choose to spend unwisely, or decide to have children etc.
            A lot of people like myself are concerned that increasing welfare support (however funded) encourages dependence and a sense of entitlement. I don’t believe that this is healthy for society.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re not their Mum, but out of their lives.

              A lot of people like myself are concerned that increasing welfare support (however funded) encourages dependence and a sense of entitlement.

              Then ensure that there are enough decent paying full time jobs to go around, instead of soap box moralising with your croc tears like a dick head.

              • Balanced View

                So you don’t believe that people should be allowed to express opinions on how others choose to spend their (or others) money?

                • Colonial Viper

                  What, you still want to be every poor person’s Mummy?

                  • McFlock

                    well, maybe their Big Brother.

                  • Balanced View

                    Not really, but did want to point out the hypocrisy of allowing the poor to make unhelpful decisions for society, but decrying corporates when they do the same

                    • Colonial Viper

                      but did want to point out the hypocrisy of allowing the poor to make unhelpful decisions for society,

                      So you decide to wail on the most powerless, under-represented, financially weak and victimised sections of NZ communities for the “unhelpful decisions” they make on behalf of our whole society?

                      What the hell are you smoking?

                    • Balanced View

                      We’ll your assumption that I ignore the contribution the wealthy have to this issue is incorrect.
                      And two wrongs don’t make a right. So your position of ignoring the issue I’ve raised is really no different than someone like Cameron Slater ignoring yours.

            • Frank Macskasy 6.1.1.1.1.2

              However, I am less sympathetic to people that are struggling that choose to spend unwisely, or decide to have children etc.

              BV, are you aware that the numbers on DPB are dropping, not increasing?

              And what does a worker with three kids do when the Global Financial Crisis made them redundant? Slit his children’s throats so that opponants of welfare can sleep easy knowing that their aren’t more families with kids going onto a benefit?

              So how does a worker look into the future to see if they’ll have a job, before deciding to have a family? How does one predict something like that?

              And why should workers with children who are made redundant, and happen to have children, be blamed for shenanigans on Wall Street and City of London? That’s 95,000 people here in NZ you’re trying to blame for events out of their control.

        • Rogue Trooper 6.1.1.2

          Personally, I’d love to be offered part-time employment to “improve my position” (I possess no money from Friday till the following ‘pay-day’), yet despite how wonderful the mainstream believe John Kirwan to be, experiences of mental-unwellness still attract more stigma than merely being on a benefit.

    • BM 6.2

      This.

      People being lazy useless pricks really chaffs peoples balls.

      • Arfamo 6.2.1

        Not enough. Key’s still the PM.

      • KJT 6.2.2

        Yes it does mine. Especially when they are in Parliament getting 300k a year.

        Or a Manager who just got a bonus after he lost the company owners 34 million and counting.

        Someone who is out of work because said Managers and politicians have ensured there are NF Jobs. Not so much!

      • Rogue Trooper 6.2.3

        and why’s that? Are they not happy in themselves such that they reference themselves to others.
        Of course, a literate chappie such as yourself would be aware of The Fundamental Attribution Error , correspondence bias-attribution effect; ” One of the root principles of social psychology” and regularly assess your own ramblings through such a filter?, or maybe not it appears.

      • People being lazy useless pricks really chaffs peoples balls.

        Posted by BM at 1.40pm. Shouldn’t you be at work, mate?

  7. Ake ake ake 7

    Sharp title.

    As an aside, should there be a post about –

    “How to: Pick an Excuse for Not Prosecuting a Company where 29 Lives Have Been Lost”

    • KJT 7.1

      I don’t think it is the company that should be in the gun so much as the regulators and politicians who allowed it.

      A large fine/compensation is appropriate for the company management, unless negligence is proven.

      Those with the real power should get jail terms.

      • Arfamo 7.1.1

        The problem I suspect is that the deficiencies in the regulatory departments are the result of the cost-cutting, corporate style way both national and labour administrations have governed their departments. No one could isolate which Ministers or Senior Executives were the most culpable in all probability.

        One of the things I remember most about the report into those departments is how the reviewers found that the DoL’s ordinary business plan risk assessments were mainly about managing the risks to their reputation, not the risks to workers.

  8. mike 9

    there are no children in poverty just totally neglectful parents. Sort this out and the problem goes away

    No 27? (KJT)

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  • Nothing in Budget to help police to solve crime
    The Police Minister has failed to make communities safer with virtually no new money in yesterday’s Budget for police to address the appalling burglary resolution rates, says Labour’s Police spokesperson Stuart Nash.  “It’s a disgrace there’s no money or aspiration… ...
    20 hours ago
  • Blog – Budget 2016: What about ordinary working people?
    Ordinary working New Zealanders don’t fare very well from this Budget. Setting aside the spin from the Government, it contains a lot to be concerned about and a fudging of the numbers. Green Party workplace relations spokesperson Denise Roche For… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    21 hours ago
  • Real wages go backwards for next two years
    New Zealanders’ real wages will fall for the next two years as the cost of living outpaces forecast pay rises, says Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little. “New Zealanders have been doing it tough for far too long. They expect… ...
    21 hours ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    21 hours ago
  • The Attack on Public Education – by a thousand cuts
    Budget 2016 is another step towards the free public education system being a memory from the past. The Budget freezes the operations grant for schools and does not sufficiently cover the real increase in numbers of students entering the education system.… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    21 hours ago
  • The give with one hand – take with the other Budget
    The Minister of Health has pumped out media releases to 20 District Health Boards heralding increases in funding for their regions, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. “But when you add population growth and inflation into the figures you get… ...
    23 hours ago
  • Budget offers no hope of fixing housing crisis
    The Budget’s underwhelming housing measures will give New Zealanders no hope that National is capable of fixing the housing crisis, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “There isn’t a scrap of an idea to help desperate young Kiwi families into… ...
    1 day ago
  • How the budget fails new New Zealanders
    Greens co-leader James Shaw was absolutely correct to say the 2016 budget is just papering over the cracks. There’s nothing in this budget to increase wages, address inequal pay for carers or deal with the shocking pay rates and employment… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    2 days ago
  • Parents will pay more as school budgets frozen
    Parents will pay more for their kids’ education as a result of this year’s Budget after the Government froze operational funding for schools, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This means schools are effectively going backwards. They will need to… ...
    2 days ago
  • Sticking Plaster Budget fails the test
    Bill English’s penultimate Budget fails to tackle the structural challenges facing the economy – a housing crisis, rising unemployment, underfunded health and creaking infrastructure, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “This Budget applies a sticking plaster to a compound fracture.… ...
    2 days ago
  • John Key fails middle New Zealand with no fix for housing crisis, more underfunding of health
    Middle New Zealand has again missed out in this year’s Budget with not a single fix for the housing crisis, and health and education woefully underfunded again, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This Budget is just a patchwork… ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour Bill would back Kiwi jobs
    The Government’s $40 billion of buying power would go towards backing Kiwi businesses and jobs under a Labour Member’s Bill which will be debated by Parliament, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “My Bill – which was pulled from… ...
    2 days ago
  • Julie Anne Genter: My Budget 2016 wish is fairness
    When my parents first visited me in Auckland ten years ago, they remarked on how there were no homeless people on the streets. Coming from Los Angeles, they were used to seeing the impacts of horrendous inequality and a lack… ...
    GreensBy Julie Anne Genter
    2 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    2 days ago
  • Steffan Browning: Pesticide reduction and Organic Growth Strategy in Budget 2016
    Pesticide reduction The Budget is an opportunity for the Government to launch a pesticide reduction strategy that multiplies the Environmental Protection Authority’s (EPA) and the Ministry for Primary Industries’ capacity to reassess pesticides and other toxins.  The Agricultural Compounds and… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning
    2 days ago
  • Minister won’t fess up on wrong figures
    The Minister of Health was caught out telling porkies in Parliament today when he was asked about the number of people getting access to mental health and addiction services, says Labour’s Health spokesperson Annette King. ...
    3 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 days ago
  • Budget 2016 and our LGBTQI communities
    LGBTI people make up about a tenth of our population, and our communities face a unique set of needs and challenges. These challenges are caused or exacerbated by discrimination, invisibility and barriers to appropriate support. We have a long way… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    3 days ago
  • Scrambled announcement policy on the hoof
    Paula Bennett’s scrambled desperate announcement that she will pay homeless people to move to the regions is just the latest evidence of the disarray this Government’s housing policy is in, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. “This is policy… ...
    3 days ago
  • Police Minister admits resolution rates fall short of expectation
    Police Minister Judith Collins has admitted in Parliament current burglary resolution rates are not meeting the expectations of our communities, says Labour’s Police spokesman Stuart Nash “Out of 284 police stations in New Zealand in 2015, 24 stations recorded zero… ...
    3 days ago
  • Mojo Mathers: A better deal for animals in Budget 2016
    Currently we are failing animals in NZ. On the face of it farmed and domestic animals in this country have strong legal protection from abuse, cruelty and neglect. In reality it seems that only the very worst, most extreme cases… ...
    GreensBy Mojo Mathers
    3 days ago
  • Metiria Turei: What we need from Budget 2016
    Every family deserves a warm decent home.  Everyone believes that. This housing crisis is just the latest consequence of a Government who puts the interests of the few wealthy people above the needs of NZ families.  Families are doing it… ...
    GreensBy Metiria Turei
    3 days ago
  • Dairy exports fall of 11%: Budget action on diversification needed
    Dairy exports have fallen 11 per cent compared to this time last year, a fall of almost $1.5b, showing the Government must take clear action on diversifying the economy in tomorrow’s Budget, says Labour’s Trade and Export Growth spokesperson David… ...
    3 days ago
  • Investors driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland
    Investors cashing in on skyrocketing Auckland house prices are driving families out of homes in South and West Auckland and causing homeownership rates in some of our poorest suburbs to plummet, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “New analysis shows… ...
    3 days ago
  • Budget must deliver on paid parental leave
    Budget 2016 must deliver 26 weeks paid parental leave by April 2018 – anything less will be short-changing families, says Labour MP Sue Moroney. “My Bill which is before Parliament this afternoon has majority support and does just that. I… ...
    3 days ago
  • Key’s “brain fart” on tax cuts news to English
    John Key didn’t tell his own Finance Minister he was about to go on radio and announce he wanted $3b of tax cuts, just days after Bill English ruled them out, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “In Parliament today… ...
    4 days ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    4 days ago
  • What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 – A better start for our tamariki
    Ensuring the best start for our tamariki is a priority for me in everything I do. And so in Budget 2016, my first budget as an MP, I looking for the Government to make a real investment in the wellbeing… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    4 days ago
  • Denise Roche: What I’m looking for in Budget 2016 Pt II
    Aotearoa’s new New Zealanders,  come to our country in vulnerable position: – often away from the culture, communities and families they know, sometimes in neighbourhoods without familiar faces and often encountering barriers to employment. With net migration at 50,000+ a… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    4 days ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    4 days ago
  • Equal Pay and Budget 2016
    The last few years we’ve seen equal pay for women flagged as an undefined risk in the budget. This year we should expect to see this, as well as budgeted money to deliver equal pay to caregivers and funding for,… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    4 days ago
  • A great Budget would
    A great Budget would embrace the challenge of our polluted rivers and move the money away from justifying the status quo water rules into cleaning up waterways. A great Budget would take the Ministry for the Environment freshwater budget and… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty
    4 days ago
  • Budget building materials policy backfires
    On the eve of this year’s Budget official figures show Nick Smith’s Budget 2014 centrepiece to reduce the cost of building materials has backfired, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment officials have spent the… ...
    4 days ago
  • Smarter, Better, Cleaner, Stronger
    This Thursday Bill English will deliver his eighth Budget. Will it continue the trend of previous National budgets, making tertiary education less affordable, putting only token funds into innovation, and subsidising polluters? Budgets aren’t what they used to be. Once… ...
    GreensBy Gareth Hughes
    4 days ago
  • Govt must come clean on tax cuts in Budget
    National is making a mockery of the Budget process by dangling the promise of tax cuts but failing to include them in the Budget, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “National’s tax cut promises have turned into a farce. One… ...
    5 days ago
  • Grant Robertson Pre-Budget Speech
    Today I want to talk about success. As we know success can come in many different forms, from the fact you all made it here at such an early hour on a Monday, for which I am very grateful, to… ...
    5 days ago
  • Budget must deliver for middle New Zealand
    The Government must ensure next week’s Budget stops the squeeze on middle New Zealand and delivers shared prosperity for all New Zealanders, Leader of the Opposition Andrew Little says. The call follows new research commissioned by Labour that shows working… ...
    6 days ago
  • Our housing emergency – why we have to act
    Marama and Metiria at Homes Not Cars launch On Thursday, Metiria Turei announced the Green Party’s plan to start addressing the emergency housing crisis facing our country. Too many people are without homes right now – homeless. It is the… ...
    GreensBy Marama Davidson
    7 days ago
  • Will funding boost for sexual violence services go to the right places?
    This week the Government announced $46million for sexual violence services. This announcement was a result of decades of work by advocates and everyone who submitted to the Select Committee inquiry into funding for sexual violence services that I initiated with… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Will funding boost for sexual violence services go to the right places?
    This week the Government announced $46million for sexual violence services. This announcement was a result of decades of work by advocates and everyone who submitted to the Select Committee inquiry into funding for sexual violence services that I initiated with… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche – What I’m looking for in this year’s Budget
    Two of the things I’ll be looking for in the Budget next week are more funding for refugees and for our arts and culture sector. More funding for refugees I’m a strong supporter of the #DoubleTheQuota campaign and its goals… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Denise Roche – What I’m looking for in this year’s Budget
    Two of the things I’ll be looking for in the Budget next week are more funding for refugees and for our arts and culture sector. More funding for refugees I’m a strong supporter of the #DoubleTheQuota campaign and its goals… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche
    1 week ago
  • Car rego victims must get a refund
    Motorists who have been overcharged for their car registration should get a refund, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Sue Moroney.  “Minister Nikki Kaye’s ‘faulty risk’ rating scheme has blown up in her face with over 170 different models of car having… ...
    1 week ago
  • Council statement shows they just don’t get it
    The Auckland Council’s statement today shows they don’t understand the problems created by the urban growth boundary, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford.  “I have been the first to defend the Auckland City Council when Bill English has been blaming… ...
    1 week ago
  • Inspecting electronic devices a potential privacy threat
    Labour is expressing concern for New Zealanders’ privacy rights as the Government signals Customs will have the power to inspect electronic devices coming across the border, says Labour’s Customs Spokesperson Rino Tirikatene. “We agree that customs officers should have the… ...
    1 week ago

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