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Losing the debate on global warming

Written By: - Date published: 12:03 pm, April 15th, 2012 - 155 comments
Categories: climate change, disaster - Tags: , ,

I’m going to just repost in full a post by guest author Hugh Pickens on Slashdot:

Dr. James Hansen, director of the NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who first made warnings about climate change in the 1980s, says that public skepticism about the threat of man-made climate change has increased despite the growing scientific consensus. He says that without public support, it will be impossible to make the changes he and his colleagues believe need to occur to protect future generations from the effects of climate change. ‘The science has become stronger and stronger over the past five years while the public perception is has gone in completely the other direction. That is not an accident,’ says Hansen. ‘There is a very concerted effort by people who would prefer to see business to continue as usual. They have been winning the public debate with the help of tremendous resources.’ Hansen’s comments come as recent surveys have revealed that public support for tackling climate change has declined dramatically in recent years. A recent BBC poll found that 25% of British adults did not think global warming is happening and over a third said many claims about environmental threats are ‘exaggerated,’ compared to 24 per cent in 2000. Dr. Benny Peiser, director of skeptical think tank The Global Warming Policy Foundation, says it’s time to stop exaggerating the impact of global warming and accept the uncertainty of predictions about the rate of climate change. ‘James Hensen has been making predictions about climate change since the 1980s. When people are comparing what is happening now to those predictions, they can see they fail to match up.’

A very depressing read.

Just on that last point, however, the voice of the deniers as wrong as usual. Hansen’s predictions from 1981 were spot on:

30-year-old global temperature predictions close to spot-on
A bit optimistic, actually

In the ongoing debate over climate change, it’s at times a good idea to check in with historial predictions made by climate modelers and see how well they have been able to predict global warming – which is exactly what a pair of researchers at the Koninklijk Nederlands Meteorologisch Instituut (KNMI) have done.

Geert Jan van Oldenborgh and Rein Haarsma “stumbled across” – their words – a paper in the August 28, 1981 issue of Science, written by a septet of climate modelers, which modeled a number of scenarios that projected global mean temperatures up to the year 2100.

The lead author of that paper, “Climate Impact of Increasing Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide”, was the now-famed and/or now-reviled James Hansen, currently working at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS).

“It turns out to be a very interesting read,” Oldenborgh and Haarsma say of the paper in their blog post on RealClimate. …

Oldenborgh and Haarsma took the 1981 paper’s projections, and overlayed upon them known temperature increases since 1981 as determined by the GISS Land-Ocean Temperature Index, and using the KNMI Climate Explorer research tool.

“Given the many uncertainties at the time, notably the role of aerosols, the agreement is very good indeed,” write Oldenborgh and Haarsma, comparing the results favorably with the far more sophisticated coupled-model CMIP5 simulations.

The 1981 paper, the KNMI researchers conclude, is “a nice example of a statement based on theory that could be falsified and up to now has withstood the test. The ‘global warming hypothesis’ has been developed according to the principles of sound science.”

Right in 1981 and still right today. But it looks like being right doesn’t matter.

155 comments on “Losing the debate on global warming”

  1. Richard 1

    The word you want is “Losing”.

  2. Oscar 2

    No wonder especially when Nasa scientists ask for empirical evidence to be used

    Science should be used to reveal universal principles, not to assist mankind in its folly which is precisely what’s happening here.

    It gets warm, it gets cold. The entire southern ocean is a heck of a lot colder this year than it has been in the past due to increased albedo during perihelion. Bad news bears.

    Wrap up warm this winter. The snow storms of 2012 will make last years look like a piss in the park.

    • Kotahi Tane Huna 2.1

      Oscar you are a dupe: not a single one of those retired scientists and engineers has a qualification in Climatology – they have no expertise whatsoever. If the fact that they worked for NASA bolsters their credibility in your eyes, why is Hansen’s not similarly enhanced?

      Hansen’s 1981 paper is shown by the empirical evidence to be the most accurate projection at the time. It still underestimated the trend by about 30%, probably because of uncertainties over aerosols.

      Climate models have been accurately forecasting future trends since 1896.

      I bet you respond to this by regurgitating some lies you have read, but here’s a challenge for you: support your bullshit with peer-reviewed references – (hint – you haven’t got a shit show because the peer-reviewed work shows the opposite of the crap you are dribbling).

      Dribble dribble, Oscar.

      • Oscar 2.1.1

        Dribble dribble yourself

        Did I say I support them? No. I simply stated that the reason why the warmists are losing the debate to the skeptics is because of actions like this.

        I’m a coolist fwiw. Still disagree with the ceaseless allegations that CO2 is the worst GHG. CH4 is worse than CO2. If you really want to keep going down that path, just stop breathing and do us all a favour. You’ll feel better about yourself then won’t you? Knowing that your death will contribute less CO2 to the atmosphere due to your not breathing.

        It underestimated the trend as we haven’t had any major warming since 1998. We’re well into a cooling cycle and if a northern hemisphere volcano goes this summer, well, we’re all fucked really.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 2.1.1.1

          Wrong. Simply and egregiously wrong. Where is the source of your error? Published peer-reviewed work or your whole argument is nothing but a big bag of air.

          CO2 is considered by many to be “worse” than CH4 because it persists in the atmosphere for so long by comparison. Others consider CH4 to be “worse” because it blocks more IR (1 molecule of CH4 = about 40 of CO2). Both are greenhouse gases however.

          What the fuck are you talking about “underestimated the trend because we haven’t had any major warming”? Quite apart from the fact that your statement is a lie, Hansen’s paper forecast less warming than has actually occurred – please try and keep up.

          L(1-α) = εσT^4 isn’t going to change to suit your ignorance.

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 2.1.1.1.1

            PS: nice to see my prediction – that you would repeat some lies you’ve been told rather than cite some credible sources – come true. I think I forecast your trend with 100% accuracy.

        • aotearoean 2.1.1.2

          Oscar’s posts are straight out of the climate denier handbook.

          1.  Sound like you are relying on the science.
          2.  Ignore the science. 

      • Chaz 2.1.2

        What’s a climatology qualification Kotahi? If there is such a thing as a degree in climatology it’s an invented construct which probably occurred over the last five years as the pro warning fanatics desperately tried to recover from having been caught out fiddling the numbers, which includes our own climate nazis at Niwa.

        Anyway, Global warming is yesterday’s cause. Haven’t you heard, today it is all about ‘Climate Change’. This is an interesting approach which allows any kind of weather at all to be tut-tutted at as ‘proof’ of the terrible CO2 and the damage capitalism is doing to the world.

    • Jenny 2.2

      If the pattern follows the recent Northern Hemisphere winter, then indeed there will be massive snow storms, but a short winter.

      The reason, warmer seas, more evaporation, meaning more precipitation of all types.

      • Oscar 2.2.1

        One small flaw there Jenny..


        The Seas are COLDER these days.

        • mickysavage 2.2.1.1

          Um no, one particular sea is colder and this is within expected fluctuations.

          The thing that really annoys me about CCDs is that they will grasp hold of the most slightest of straws, like yesterday in Dunedin was a bit chillier than normal so therefore climate change is a load of crock.

          You guys really have to do better than that. 

          • Oscar 2.2.1.1.1

            Pacific ocean SST is trending downwards outside of the normal range. To be expected with greater albedo and less sunlight hitting the surface to warm it up.

            Whats the effect of all that cold ocean air getting pushed up by southerlies to interact with the warm moist northerlies

            More snow, more hail. Colder winter.

            • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Wow. Where does all the air for the southerlies come from?
                  
              And does the Pacific Ocean temperature always equal the average global temperature?
                  
              Idiot.

  3. Kotahi Tane Huna 3

    As some wit put it: “the problem with Hansen is he’s never been wrong.”

    One day I hope Charles and David Koch and others face prosecution for mass murder and crimes against humanity.

    • muzza 3.1

      The real problem of course is one of trust, credibility and propaganda!

      People have become to weary of being lied to, and hit in the wallet only, and so forth, not to mention the non stop barrage of information available on every conceiveable angle and topic imagineable, this simple causes people to turn away regarldess if the underlying truth of the situation has been the prevailing debate leader.

      TPTB can do what they like, they can get people to think what they want them to, and believe almost anything, and governments simply inact the instructions by proxy, which usually just ends up hitting people in the pocket, by taxes and by higher prices….Until there is some clear localised leaderhsip, and I am not talking about an ETS, then this is a battle that people will simply ignore!

      Its the classic boy who cried wolf scenario, where people have become too jaded, lost and disenfranchised to give a toss about so called leadership!

      • Kotahi Tane Huna 3.1.1

        Not all governments are equally ineffective, but the real leaders – in terms of taking actions that will bring about change – are the insurance companies.

        • muzza 3.1.1.1

          Bloke you are aware that the insurance companies are the banks right?, same crew!

          Also the same crew who own the big oil companies that some people blame for the missinformation about whatever they believe climate change, global warming or whatever todays buzzword is, or is not!

          Until you understand the links between these industries and the level of control over them, and any other industry you can name, you will forever be wondering just why nothing ever seems to change in a meaningful way!

          The only way we will get, is what the bank owners want, and how’s that working out for the world!

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 3.1.1.1.1

            I’m so lucky I have you to explain it for me. Meanwhile, in the real world…

            • muzza 3.1.1.1.1.1

              As usual, little more than a quip telling little if nothing about how its all going to save the planet…because you have no idea how the financial world hangs together, or how its controlled…more to the point, how its controls humanity!

              I will repeat myself….the solutions will be what the bank owners want, not necessarily working functional solutions driving behaviour for the greater good. But as the brainwashing exercise has clearly worked on so many, so they are primed to swallow the solutions seen coming since well before Kyoto…

              Keep repeating Bloke …THE BANKERS WILL SAVE US!

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Dimwit, I didn’t say anything about “how it’s going to save the planet”. Your faith that the “solutions” will be dictated by bankers is touching.

                The fact is the banks are doing sweet fuck all. The insurers at least are removing cover in areas they consider to be too high risk. This is the only response anyone has taken so far that will actually impact on day-to-day life.

                I am becoming increasingly confident that starvation and extreme weather will be the most effective “solutions”, although no doubt peak oil will also play a part. The changes that are coming will be forcible, not voluntary.

                • Jackal

                  I really don’t see how an argument that the bankers are only interested in short term disaster capitalism when every recent study shows there are already massive costs from the effects of climate change. They cannot hope to continue to benefit from a financial mechanism that is based on productivity from things in the real world.

                  People make money from producing things. I tend to side with Kotahi Tane Huna when he/she says that insurance companies will be a driving force in formulating climate change mitigation. However banks will hopefully also be looking after the ability of their debtors to meet their obligations.

                  Farming and horticulture is particularly vulnerable to the effects of climate change. Many producers have hefty mortgages, which they can only pay when their production is adequate. muzza’s argument amounts to: Banks want people to default on their mortgages. Personally I don’t think that is the case.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    …and yes exactly Jackal – money talks, especially when it comes in the form of relentless uninsurable costs. It will become harder and harder for dimwits to maintain their positions – physically let alone philosophically.

                  • muzza

                    Actually Jackal, that is not my argument – It has nothing to do with money whatsoever, this is the catch. Money does not talk any lanuage other than control!

                    Why would anyone care about money when they own the money system!

                    Defaulting on mortgages…..banks will not give a stuff about that long term.

                    Agriculture/horticulture – Yes they are susceptible, but that’s ok because Monsanto will take care of the worlds food requirements right, easy !

                    Only when people understand accept the links between the industries, will they be able to see what the truth is in the situation being “played out!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Only when people voluntarily submit to pre-frontal lobotomies will they be able to have the same delusions as Muzza. FIFY.

                • muzza

                  “Dimwit, I didn’t say anything about “how it’s going to save the planet”. Your faith that the “solutions” will be dictated by bankers is touching.”
                  – Again the petty insults, when talking about what you do not comprehend – Banks own the insurance companies, they are the same companies, stop thinking so fundamentally wrong bloke!

                  “The fact is the banks are doing sweet fuck all. The insurers at least are removing cover in areas they consider to be too high risk. This is the only response anyone has taken so far that will actually impact on day-to-day life.”
                  – Banks are doing sweet FA, that is the whole point, and yes removing cover in , which will force more people into ever smaller living areas, while whole swaths of countries are deemed unliveable etc because people/companies will not be able to get insurance. You can’t see where this is all going can you!

                  “I am becoming increasingly confident that starvation and extreme weather will be the most effective “solutions”, although no doubt peak oil will also play a part. The changes that are coming will be forcible, not voluntary.”
                  – Yes they of course will play a part in being used against humanity in order to further round up the cattle. I love the way you have been so brainwashed into thinking so simplistically. Youre in a large club, don’t worry Bloke. Force = Tyrrany, and yes its all pre-planned and working very well in your 2 dimensional cranium!

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    Yawn. In future, Muzza, please spare me the tiresome conspiracist bullshit you believe. Oh, and watch out, you’ve Illuminatii hiding under your bed!!

                    • muzza

                      No there isn’t Bloke – geez!

                      Great explanations/understanding of the interworkings in the “financial sector” yet again by the way.

                      It’s all ok, you have it totally under control, and the insurance companies will force the changes that save humanity!

                      Yup they will force the changes you got that right!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Obviously you can read, but can you comprehend? You are so full of shit Muzza – quote where I have said that anything is:

                      “totally under control, and the insurance companies will force the changes that save humanity!”

                      Hint – you can’t, because I didn’t say that.

                      What I said was that they are making “the only response anyone has taken so far that will actually impact on day-to-day life.”

                      Can you see the difference between those two positions? Are you a paranoid twit much?

                    • muzza

                      Obviously you can read, but can you comprehend? You are so full of shiiit Muzza – quote where I have said that anything is:

                      “totally under control, and the insurance companies will force the changes that save humanity!” -

                      -Actually it was a toungue in cheek response to the reek of arrogance which permeates from your posts on here!

                      Hint – you can’t, because I didn’t say that.

                      – That’s right but it was my response to your lack of understanding about the ties between the banks and insurance companies…seriously dude nothing at all conspiratory in that, they are the same companies, sheesh!

                      What I said was that they are making “the only response anyone has taken so far that will actually impact on day-to-day life.”
                      – Correct, the financial systems will/are used to control all apects of human activity.

                      Can you see the difference between those two positions? Are you a paranoid twit much?
                      – Argh the reek of the online egomaniac…Good thing you have no influence on my life or anyone near me mate…You could do a good impersonation of a politician, all bluster and no farken idea at all!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      What “lack of understanding about the ties between the banks and insurance companies”?

                      I reject your entire premise, that these links somehow invalidate the actions that the insurance companies are taking.

                      “…the financial systems will/are used to control all apects (sic) of human activity”…in your mind. How’s that working out in Iceland?

                      Can you not see the trucks driving through the great big hole in your argument? AGW is interfering with the ability of these systems to function at all – it makes no distinction between public utilities, bank assets and Koch brother property and will degrade them indiscriminately.

                      Your delusions of “control” are simply that – delusions. Your fantasies of evil banker conspiracies are simply that – fantasies. Your narrative is myopic and bears no close examination – further down the page you can be found asserting that there are people who believe “that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet” – a group that simply do not exist anywhere. When challenged to cite some evidence you blither and waffle and suggest that I nominate some people to be murdered, but you still can’t support your bullshit with anything but more bullshit. You embody it.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      it makes no distinction between public utilities, bank assets and Koch brother property and will degrade them indiscriminately.

                      yes it will. That’s why the billionaires of the US are buying resilient farmland and hard productive assets in countries like NZ. Like anything else, money doesn’t necessarily stop disasters from happening, but it gives you a damn sight more options to respond to them.

                      Your delusions of “control” are simply that – delusions. Your fantasies of evil banker conspiracies are simply that – fantasies.

                      So its a coincidence that ordinary people, their taxes, the treasuries of their sovereign nations and worker pension funds have all been pillaged to add to the banking system’s bottom line?

                      And the fact that Italy and Greece (and NZ) had investment bankers installed as their heads of state – sometimes completely undemocratically – is also coincidental?

                      Perhaps you should read about the struggles that multiple US Presidents had against the banking cartel in the 1800′s and early 1900′s to get your bearings.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      No, CV – the banks and the monied are reliant on the resources Earth provides the same as you and I. They may be able to buy temporary comfort but that too is a lottery – the “resilient farmland” is far from guaranteed to maintain that status.

                      I know it’s comforting to see the world as ruled by all-powerful secret chiefs, but as far as I’m concerned it’s just another security blanket – you want someone to be in control, because the reality is too messy.

                    • muzza

                      Your delusions of “control” are simply that – delusions. Your fantasies of evil banker conspiracies are simply that – fantasies.

                      – Thanks for showing your incredible arrogance yet again!

                      Your narrative is myopic and bears no close examination – further down the page you can be found asserting that there are people who believe “that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet” – a group that simply do not exist anywhere.

                      Well these guys gave it a crack, but that was not really what I was getting at. As usual your arrogance at forcing what you perceived me to be saying , is coming through loud and clear.

                      When challenged to cite some evidence you blither and waffle and suggest that I nominate some people to be murdered, but you still can’t support your bs with anything but more bs. You embody it.

                      – Thats right you arrogantly challenged me, on an incorrect assumption that you were able to read my mind through my words.
                      -You embody a snivelling little twerp, who can’t comprehend that the only murder that is happening, and will happen is/will be at the hand of forced solutions, provided by your climate change gods, through population reduction, that is the logical outcome of where this is headed.

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      “These guys gave it a crack” – no, they didn’t, they showed that changes in cosmic rays do not account for recent warming.

                      “that was not really what I was getting at.”

                      Oh I see, when you said that “the biggest fiction is believing that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet” you meant something else entirely. As though your argument wasn’t inarticulate enough already.

                      I’m not going to try and figure out who you think my “climate change gods” are, since on the one hand I don’t have any, and on the other, after the above exchange I have no idea whether the words you have employed bear any relation to the notions in your mind.

                      I doubt you do either.

                    • muzza

                      “I know it’s comforting to see the world as ruled by all-powerful secret chiefs, but as far as I’m concerned it’s just another security blanket – you want someone to be in control, because the reality is too messy”

                      – Actually its not comforting at all, and I can’t speak for CV, but in no way do I want anyone to be in control of humanity, least of all those who are the so called world leaders…who are the puppets of the global elite people refer, again nothing at all conspiratory in that!

                      You seem to be enthused that the insurance companies are “taking the lead (control)”

                      So who is it that seems to need the security blanket of having someone in control OAB!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      taking the lead != control

                      Let’s see what I really wrote shall we?

                      “Not all governments are equally ineffective, but the real leaders – in terms of taking actions that will bring about change – are the insurance companies”

                      Can you see how this differs from the notion that I think the insurance companies are “in control”?

                      Let’s employ a sports analogy – even the amateur league has a winner. I’d better spell it out for your benefit – our efforts at mitigation are amateurish and ineffectual, but the actions of the insurance companies are the least amateurish and ineffectual to date.

                      Slowly the light is dawning? No?

                    • muzza

                      taking the lead != control

                      – Yes actually as I said, money only speaks one language, control! Well done you’re catching up!

                      Let’s see what I really wrote shall we?

                      “Not all governments are equally ineffective, but the real leaders – in terms of taking actions that will bring about change – are the insurance companies”

                      Can you see how this differs from the notion that I think the insurance companies are “in control”?

                      – What do you think being a “real leader taking actions that WILL bring about change” , might actually be Bloke, and what do you consider use of the the word “WILL”, might involve! A leader has to take CONTROL of a situation, by definition this is what it means. How that control is taken and utilized in future in debateable, surely even you must comprehend that !

                      Let’s employ a sports analogy – even the amateur league has a winner. I’d better spell it out for your benefit – our efforts at mitigation are amateurish and ineffectual, but the actions of the insurance companies are the least amateurish and ineffectual to date.

                      – It’s almost as if no-body is really taking it seriously eh Bloke, hmmm wonder why that might be! PS ,that was a terrible analogy bro!

                      Slowly the light is dawning? No?

                      – No, the light is a very long way from you, but keep searching, because it really is all about the light!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Muzza your every response is nothing but vague self-aggrandising unsubstantiated waffle, relying on information you claim to have that no-one else understands, but you can’r actually articulate your way out of a paper bag.

                      “No-one is taking it seriously” is simply yet another example of your ridiculous generalisations – reality check the whole point is that insurance companies are taking it seriously enough to refuse to provide cover. Why don’t you pause for an hour or two to get to grips with that?

                      It’s taken you almost all day to actually take note of the meaning of my initial comment, and make an effort to comprehend it, and still you fail the simplest reality check. Duh!

                    • muzza

                      Muzza your every response is nothing but vague self-aggrandising unsubstantiated waffle, relying on information you claim to have that no-one else understands, but you can’r actually articulate your way out of a paper bag.

                      – No its just things I understand that you don’t Bloke, thats your problem, don’t hate the player!
                      – Use of the word “waffle” while thinking about your sports analogy, brought foward another word, which also applies to you – Hypocrite!

                      “No-one is taking it seriously” is simply yet another example of your ridiculous generalisations – reality check the whole point is that insurance companies are taking it seriously enough to refuse to provide cover. Why don’t you pause for an hour or two to get to grips with that?

                      – If you think I don’t comprehend that, then you don’t really understand the next line down!
                      – You don’t really understand when someone is extracting “The Michael” do you!

                      – The fact you still are going on about the insurers, show just how little you comprehend!

                      It’s taken you almost all day to actually take note of the meaning of my initial comment, and make an effort to comprehend it, and still you fail the simplest reality check. Duh!

                      – Taking the piiiss out of you , has been both easy, and entertaining!
                      – You are a very long way from being as clever as your online ego wants others to believe it is!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      PS: I note that low intelligence predisposes people to feel comforted by notions of order, control, and hierarchy.

                    • muzza

                      “PS: I note that low intelligence predisposes people to feel comforted by notions of order, control, and hierarchy”

                      – Hilarious, and a classic example of lacking intuitive understandings!

                      You do realise that the enthusiasm you mentioned earlier for the insurers (taking the lead), does indicate that you indeed have/require a notion of “order, control and hierarchy”, surely you can see the parodox in that!

                      Woops, I take it back – low intelligence, of course you can’t!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      …and still not a single substantive argument from you. Just an endless stream of unsupported tripe. Since you don’t actually understand my point – you couldn’t even quote it without making up utter fantasies – you have less than no chance of taking the piss out of it.

                      Keep dreaming of how the secret chiefs are controlling your life, won’t you.

                      PS: You do realise, don’t you, that my “enthusiasm” is all in your mind?

                    • muzza

                      “…and still not a single substantive argument from you. Just an endless stream of unsupported tripe. Since you don’t actually understand my point – you couldn’t even quote it without making up utter fantasies – you have less than no chance of taking the piss out of it.”

                      – And yet arrogantly, you are still demanding that I provide evidence to you, for incorrectly interpreted comments about what you can’t , it seems, ever comprehend.

                      “Keep dreaming of how the secret chiefs are controlling your life, won’t you”

                      – Nah, I’ll leave the wet dreams to you, it sounds like you need the release. What is amazing though, is once you are able to see through the charades, it really can have positive influences on how you live your life. To use a sports analogy that perhaps you can understand. Being able to analyse the opposition, allows one to form and effective match strategy…comprehend that one ok? How about this one…Just play whats in front of you! You have to understand whats in front of you though first eh! The first analogy helps with the second, I hope it helped you Bloke!

                      “PS: You do realise, don’t you, that my “enthusiasm” is all in your mind?”

                      – You do know what “extracting the michael” is right? Woops I take that back, low intelligence, of course you don’t!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      Riiiiggghhht, so you don’t mean anything you say, and any error you make is defined later as “taking the Michael”? How thoroughly dishonest convenient. Truthily pathetic.

                      To recap, I have merely pointed out that of all the responses to climate change to date, insurance companies refusing to cover certain areas is perhaps the strongest – affecting about 200,000 homes in England and Wales alone, for example. Apparently that pushed some of your little buttons and off you went, making up stupid condescending responses to stuff I didn’t say. Several hours later my entirely mundane and uncontroversial observation still stands on its merits, and you are still thrashing around talking shit.

                      During all this time, you still don’t get it: I understand exactly what you are saying – that “Banks own the insurance companies, they are the same companies” (demonstrably wrong – they are not “the same companies”), that “…the financial systems will/are used to control all apects (sic) of human activity” (again how’s that working out in Iceland. And Venezuela? And Brazil? *crickets*).

                      There’s the thing see? I understand what you are saying, I just think you’re wrong, and since you have offered precisely zero credible support for your notions, is it surprising?

                      Cue another little tanty.

                    • muzza

                      - Still trying to force your ideas down someone’s throat, the mear concept that there could be things going on that you can’t rationalise is simply too much for you to comprehend, your whole premise is laughable. Those countries you mention, you know whats wrong with using them surely? Do tell me then OAB seeing as you seem to know better here is a dead easy one to google for you. Who owns Lloyds of London? – Let me give you a clue – It may/may not involve the same Bank (along with others) that I worked for in London last year , while aligning “Anti Money Laundering” frameworks, you seem to know so much about without working on! While you’re there, have a look at who owns Old Mutual Finance and best check out Skandia too, starter for ten!

                      Thing is bro, you like to try use little lines through words, hoping that it might bolster your status, cutesy words like tanty, and button pushing, you would not know where to begin to push mine. In the need to show just how strong your position is, you have totally missed the fact that I have not disagreed with you about the insurance companies leading – I actually agreed with you! I just happen to come from a different angle, and you seem to think its a good example citing 200,000 homes now won’t be insured, like that a good thing to have people forced to move under such circumstances….

                      You keep wanting to recap why, because you have to try so hard to prove you’re point, but I don’t give a fuck mate! Are you so weak, that I can wring a whole afternoon out of you while doing nothing more than taking the piss, and highlighting your massive online ego, and having a good laugh along!

                      I’ve got some real work to do now, but thanks for contributing to my studies, you make wonderful subject matter – I’ll leave you to get the last word in, let’s see if the ego can resist the bait!

                    • Kotahi Tane Huna

                      You’re very responsive for someone who doesn’t give a fuck. In fact as I recall it was you who started this entire merry-go-round.

                      You keep repeating that the bankers are in control, and that you are tirelessly monitoring their every move (from your secret office perhaps?), but you still don’t get my point:

                      The Greenhouse Effect is out of their control, their machinations are no guarantee of salvation, their skill set in global finance (or money laundering for that matter) may not be very useful when it comes to building resilient communities.

                      The current financial model requires more-or-less constantly increasing returns – the banks rely on this. Climate change will more than likely lead to persistently decreasing returns (mass starvation, extreme weather, etc) over the foreseeable future – can you see how it might not be part of the big plan to control everything?

  4. Bill 4

    He says that without public support, it will be impossible to make the changes he and his colleagues believe need to occur to protect future generations from the effects of climate change.

    And so the question arises as to why public support is needed for changes to be made? Afterall, the governments in our ‘representative’ democracies implement unpopular policies and changes ‘every day’.

    Clearly, Hanson is implying that our governments are the block to the required changes. And so the next question is; why would they block implementation of needed change?

    The answer is always the same. Our governments primary purpose is to manage (some would say crisis manage) the economy. And our economy, with all the power and wealth it affords the powerful is the basic and fundamental problem. It is the economy that has encouraged and even dictated that those things resulting in climate collapse happened in the past, happen today and will continue to happen in the future.

    Are our governments going to act against the professed interests of the rich and powerful? Of course not. Not willingly anyway.

    Next question. Is it possible to exert enough pressure on our governments to act? In asking that question it’s necessary to take into account that those exerting the pressure will first of all have had to acknowledge that they themselves will be subject to radical and wide ranging changes in their lives. Think of all the factors in your life that are dictated by the economy. Are you willing to walk away from all those things?

    I’m guessing you’d be reasonably happy to walk away from the mortgage – if you could guarantee your long term residency in your house. And I guess you might be willing to walk away from your job – if you thought you could avoid levels of hardship. And I’m guessing that all the consequences, such as no retirement fund, no savings and so on would be taken on board – if you thought delinquency wouldn’t come a-knocking in later years.

    But the bottom line, I think, is that unless you dispense with the ‘ifs’ in that previous paragraph and just do what in your heart of hearts you know needs to be done…that is, unless you stop justifying the continuation of your present circumstances then there is absolutely no way that enough pressure will be exerted on governments.

    Sure, they’ll be castigated and criticised at various junctures on their path of adequate inaction. And I dare say that some of the inevitable approbrium will come from you. You who did nothing or nothing much. You who just kept on with the straight, narrow and safe life waiting for actions from institutions whose very existence was, is and always will be predicated on preserving and maintaining the root cause of the problem.

    The debate hasn’t been lost. The debate takes second place to peoples’ insecurities and fears; peoples’ insistence on clinging to the familiar and finding excuses and justifications for doing so. (eg, “not my fault the government won’t act.”…”wish the government would do something”……”what do you expect me to do?”…”if I buy this lightbulb…” And so on.

    • Draco T Bastard 4.1

      +1

    • Slap Shot 4.2

      I’m not sure you are right. I would say that a majority of the world’s rich people and corporations stand to lose a lot of money in the long run from climate change, and would not be greatly impacted by the means necessary to curb emissions (which are wildly exaggerated). For example, it is difficult to see how Apple or Google would suffer that much.

      This in my eyes is solely a political fight. The right will do anything to prevent large scale public policy questions become scientific questions rather than matters of opinion. How do we know this? Well, they come out with hyperbolic versions of this all the time (environmental Stalinism, etc.). What they are really whining about is the settlement of public policy questions by appeal to facts.

      It’s imperative for the right that the big social and political questions are never subordinated to the tribunal of the natural sciences, because that would be game over for them.

      • Bill 4.2.1

        And is there a left leaning government anywhere in the world that has enacted any substantial social or economic policies on the back of an understanding of climate collapse? Just one? Anywhere?

        p.s. When I say ‘substantial’ I mean something that is much more than attempts to mask ‘adequate inaction’ by throwing consumer choice or some diminished consumer choice at the whole problem.

  5. Jenny 5

    Coal emissions must be phased out as rapidly as possible or global climate disasters will be a dead certainty…

    If we want to solve the climate problem, we must phase out coal emissions. Period.

    James Hansen

    New Zealand must set the pace. No other modern industrialised country in the world is better placed.

    No population is more skilled in the method of mass peaceful protest that can force vested interest and government to back down.

    Our battle cry

    “Coal Kills, Kill Coal”

    “Denniston must never start”

    “Pike River must never be restarted”

    All coal imports and exports must be made illegal through legislation.

    • Bob 5.1

      Here’s a question… If we dug up every last piece of coal possible from everywhere in NZ, strip mined anywhere, how much of the worlds coal consumption would it equate to?

      From wiki we have 15 billion tons of coal all up and world consumption is 8 billion tons a year with 900 billion tons world wide still in the ground, if anyone thinks the world isn’t going to dig it up and use it at some stage then they are dreaming and the tiny amount we have is insignificant. Why not create some jobs, charge some tax, make some export earnings and sell it to the world, if we don’t there is another 885 billion tons they can get somewhere else.

      • McFlock 5.1.1

        Isn’t that rather similar to the self-serving minimising statements a meth dealer might make?

        • Bob 5.1.1.1

          A overly tough analogy perhaps?

          Ok, yes it is self-serving, if by self-serving you mean making some income for the country so we can pay nurses, teachers and police more. Build schools, buy brain scanners and employee miners, engineers, sparkies etc etc. I know its boring stuff but lifes a bitch sometimes and reality can be harsh.

          • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1

            if by self-serving you mean making some income for the country so we can pay nurses, teachers and police more.

            Don’t kid me, any extra revenue from that resource extraction is going into the pockets of the 1%, not into some poor sappy teacher’s pay.

            • Bob 5.1.1.1.1.1

              A completely different argument all together. In an ideal world I’d like to see the maximum possible revenue from coal sales go directly into the crown accounts. I am all for maximizing return to the crowns coffers.

          • McFlock 5.1.1.1.2
             
             

            And drug dealers spend their money on their families’ health, too.
                  
            We all know mining is self-serving.
                 
            It’s the statement that I was referring to as self-serving. The statement along the lines that our actions are less bad because lots of other people do it too, that it would happen whether or not we took part, so why shouldn’t we get a piece of that action?
                
            The same justification used by petty criminals and the “labour [almost] did it too” brigade.
              
            But the thing is that we aren’t responsible so much for the actions of others, but we sure are responsible for our own actions.
             
             

             
          • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1.3

            We don’t need to sell off the resources we have to pay for anything as we have enough resources and know how to ensure that everyone in NZ has enough – we just need to economise correctly. Your way just leaves us without any resources and without the capability of looking after ourselves. In other words, your way will just leave us all in poverty.

      • Jenny 5.1.2

        Here’s a question… If we dug up every last piece of coal possible from everywhere in NZ, strip mined anywhere, how much of the worlds coal consumption would it equate to?

        Bob

        Bob, admittedly New Zealand’s total possible emissions are only minor. But it is our example that is powerful.

        If New Zealand can do it, any advanced hi tech industrial country can do it.

        If New Zealand does it then populations around the world will be demanding of their government’s too.

        Someone has to be first.

        Why not us?

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1

          If we go to a low energy per capita economy, we will also go to a low economic activity per capita economy. The two go hand in hand.

          And you can’t successfully transition to low carbon infrastructure without burning carbon and investing energy first to do it.

          Please don’t keep re-asserting your points without covering off these points.

          • Jenny 5.1.2.1.1

            CV, I am glad to see that you think it can be done and should be done.

            I have tried to briefly, cover off the three points you raised, here. I would be grateful if you (or for that matter, anyone else) would critique them.

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1.1.1

              1) As a phosphate fert replacement, bio char only contains the phosphorus from the bio mass it is created with. Where is that P going to come from? Where are you going to get the thousands of tonnes of biomass for the manufacture of bio-char? Where are you going to get the energy for the pyrolysis process?

              2) Re: the aluminium smelter you said “Surely the simplest and most logical thing to do, would be to close it down.”

              Here you propose simply reducing our export earnings and reducing economic activity in the economy. Of course, I accept you can suggest this same approach for virtually anything which produces GHG emissions, leading us to a low GDP per capita economy.

              3) “A vast scaling back of Marsden Point would be possible with a big switch to public transport in all our major cities and towns. ”

              Sure. You would have to invest $10B – $20B in public transport infrastructure, and accept that the energy and materials you need to build that infrastructure will create a lot of GHG emmissions.

              CV, I am glad to see that you think it can be done and should be done.

              I think your pathway can be done, but it will cause a general failure of the NZ economy within a timespan of ~5-6 years.

              • Colonial Viper

                I see on the web that the world largest bio-char facility, so claimed, was closed down as a fraud scheme.

                http://www.patrickpretty.com/2010/05/04/the-modern-ponzi-federal-judge-orders-parties-not-to-harass-receiver-in-mantriaspeed-of-wealth-case-dozens-of-companies-now-ensnared-in-litigation/

                I can find no bio-char production facilities in the world which exceed a production of 1,000 tonnes per year. Which makes me think its not a scalable, feasible technology.

              • Jenny

                Capitalist Economy – Biosphere, Capitalist Economy – Biosphere.

                Hmm?

                • Colonial Viper

                  You missed the point.

                  Which is that the proposed largest bio-char facility in the world was a physical fraud – it could produce nothing, and was never going to do so.

                  Your bio-char is a fantasy, I can’t see a production facility big enough anywhere in the world to create what is needed to fertilise a 5,000 ha. farm.

                  Happy to be proven wrong. List a few biochar facilities in the world capable of producing more than 1000 tonnes of biochar a year.

                  • Jenny

                    I think you missed the point.

                    Coal extraction has to end.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      All I know is that you can’t do it with bio-char, and without phosphate and nitrogen fertilisers, agriculture as we conduct it now in NZ is all over.

              • Jenny

                How biochar works is still not completely understood, perhaps it acts as a catalyst. The fact remains it is a proven miracle soil improver.

                As for the thousands of tonnes of biomass our exotic forests could be a good source.

                The energy for the pyrolysis could partly come from the gasification of the wood itself.

                The profits from the aluminium smelter mostly go to their overseas owners, along with all the taxpayer subsidised electricity. Getting rid of the smelter would be a net gain for the country.

                I dispute the amounts you say are required for public transport. It is about the same that is currently being wasted on Roads of National inSignificance. Even by your admission these huge motorway projects are pointless in the age of peak oil. Switching this money to public transport would make perfect sense.

                As to the collapse of the economy in 5-6 years I predict that is exactly what will happen if we do nothing. What we need is a Green New Deal to save the economy.

                • Colonial Viper

                  As to the collapse of the economy in 5-6 years I predict that is exactly what will happen if we do nothing. What we need is a Green New Deal to save the economy.

                  Then don’t sweat it, this will do all the heavy lifting for you in terms of GHG emissions reduction.

                  As for the thousands of tonnes of biomass our exotic forests could be a good source.

                  Can you show me a single example of bio-char production using any of our common exotic trees as a source material.

                  • Jenny

                    I am not going to nit pick about technicalities I have no real expertise in.

                    Possibly you are right, and I am going down the wrong track trying to suggest a coal substitute so that heavy industry that relies on coal can continue.

                    But the point is, coal use has to end.

                    Globally it is the number one cause of climate forcing.

                    It is dangerous to mine and deadly for our climate.

                    It has no redeeming features. If there are no substitutes then industry will have to do with out it.

                    If we make a forceful example, our closest global neighbour and the nation with greatest per capita producer of coal sourced C02 would be forced to sit up and take notice.

                    • Jenny

                      As James Hansen said:

                      Coal emissions must be phased out as rapidly as possible or global climate disasters will be a dead certainty…

                      If we want to solve the climate problem, we must phase out coal emissions. Period.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      This is bullshit.

                      Without coal and without oil and without any viable energy alternatives and infrastructure in place, the entire basis of the modern NZ economy stops.

                    • Jenny

                      Without coal and without oil and without any viable energy alternatives and infrastructure in place, the entire basis of the modern NZ economy stops.

                      Colonial Viper

                      The collapse of the capitalist system like the collapse of the communist system could be compared to the collapse of the biosphere. Not!

                      We will have to make our choice and make our choice soon.

                      As Churchill said:

                      If you don’t fight when victory is certain and your losses will be light.

                      Then, you will have to fight when your victory is not assured and your losses will be heavy and grievous.

                      There may even be a worse case scenario.
                      You will have to fight when your defeat is certain and your losses will be devastating and unbearable. Because it is better to die fighting than to die surrendering.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Sorry, but our democracy will not choose a path which will lead to rapid economic disintegration.

                      You’ll have to bring about a system of government more like a dictatorship to enable the changes that you want.

                      Edit – Or perhaps convince the NZ population that we are in a war time circumstance and to find and follow in lockstep with a charismatic leader like Churchill.

  6. Bob 6

    I think the debate is being lost, perhaps if it had been termed ‘Climate Change’ from the start rather than Global Warming the response would have been different, the use of GW boxed the argument into only a rise in temperature which has been a struggle to ‘prove’ and easy to disprove.

    The Climate does seem to be changing, how much is result of human actions versus any number of other natual possibilities is harder to determine. I don’t think it’s going to be ‘solved’ either, most of the Western countries solutions seem to be around carbon taxes and the like to force people to use less stuff and the reality is that as a planet we have to all use less stuff for it to have any affect and that just won’t happen, everyone wants more stuff!

    There is also the elephant in the room which is the population, 3 bill in 1970, 6 bill now, 9 bill by 2050… all wanting more and more stuff… how is this not a bigger concern than anything else? Resource consumption will continue to go up and up until it crashes and there is stuff all anyone can do about it, population control on a global scale is more unlikely than just about anything else.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      We’re not going to get to 9B population.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2

      …in temperature which has been a struggle to ‘prove’ and easy to disprove.

      It’s been proven quite conclusively.

      The Climate does seem to be changing, how much is result of human actions versus any number of other natual possibilities is harder to determine.

      Been proven within 90% probability, IMO, well beyond reasonable doubt.

      Population is a problem especially considering that for capitalism to work there always needs to be a bigger population.

    • lprent 6.3

      They are all the same thing. Greenhouse gases cause global warming. The energy from that drives climate change. The climate change from global warming can be anything from air and sea currents shifting as they are indirect dispersers of heat, to glacial ice melts causing with consequences in fresh water and seawater salinity.

      The problem for humans is our civilisations base technology, farming, is heavily reliant on the relatiely stable climate conditions of the last 10,000 or so years. We have pretty well destroyed that stability in the future with our existing changes to the atmosphere (when the oceans start yielding bak their buffered CO2 the climate will really shift). The question now is how much damage we are going to cause to agriculture and fishing over the next decades as the oceans ability to buffer our crap is reduced.

  7. Lets face it, not one politician (should read lying fuckwits) is going to stand up and say the age of growth is over, otherwise they would have to admit Kiwi Saver is a dead duck.
    So ‘we’ will continue to destroy your children’s environment for as long as we can, all it takes is fictional money to pay for our demise, ie a fisherman can keep raping the oceans long after the catch isn’t worth catching, due to banks artificially keeping him in business, this ‘system’ works brilliantly for all planet fucking activities, no profit in x …. just borrow more money to stay alive until x is totally fucked.
    The real good thing is ‘we’ might have as little as 25 years left

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOMWzjrRiBg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOq2A_SGTYA&context=C4ede05aADvjVQa1PpcFNu8fItfeoAvEuuMWHNYFEMwTBzs15Le1c=

    If we use a ruler to graph ‘our’ rise since 1970 then we have gone up about 300 mm, in 2007 – 08 we plunged 5 mm, according to Nicole Foss ( http://theautomaticearth.org/ ) as far as bubbles go, we still have 295 mm left to fall, hang on, the next 5 years are going to be very interesting.
    Which brings a couple of Chines saying to mind
    “May you live in interesting times” and “I can eat your child and you can eat mine” :)

    • Johnm 7.1

      True, for Kiwi Saver to work there must be a growing economy. Growth ended in 2008 and the whole debt based International financial system is collapsing from a growth based credit/debt bubble now unrepayable for ever.

      Right since WW11 Cheap Oil supply exponential expansion along with debt based money credit supply expansion has enabled the rape of the Planet.

      We’re stealing from the resources and wealth of future generations leaving them poorer; Intergenerational theft.

      The upswing was exiting now it’s hangover time. The 1% are making sure they’re ok: They own most of the Politicians.

  8. spammer 8

    I don’t think the argument is necessarily being lost (it definitely isn’t scientifically) but for a common person to admit to themselves that they need to make significant lifestyle changes for the good of the planet they really need to notice the effects of global warming for themselves. The same applies for politicians, unfortunately at the point we see significant climate change in New Zealand it could be too late.
    Another thing that i think hinders public perception on climate change is the idea that CO2 is a pollutant which is an idea most people find hard to swallow, i know it isn’t really but greenhouse gasses are generally portrayed as pollutants in the media.

    • Jenny 8.1

      I would also disagree that “the argument is necessarily being lost”. Most people are aware of the issues, but obviously because it is so far away from their everyday lives and so huge they cannot imagine that there is anything they can do about it.

      If there is a problem that is to big and that you can’t address as an individual you have to put it to the back of your mind. This is only common sense.

      In my opinion…. What is really missing is the political will from those who could and should be giving a lead to do so.

      Even the Greens.

  9. james 111 9

    They are losing the debate because the facts are now getting out to the Public and they realise it Climate change is a massive Con.
    That is why 33,000 scientists have signed a petition to say it is not based on fact but rather scientific inventivness to gain funding. People are being conned by major corperations who are using Climate change as a revenue gathering machine.

    • aotearoean 9.1

      33,000 scientists?  Please give a reputable link for this claim.  Any one will do.  Even an irreputable link will suffice because your claim is so far off the planet you must be from a different dimension.

      • james 111 9.1.1

        My pleasure Aotea here you go will accept your apology

        The facts discussed in this article are not the authors imaginings”There is one big fact you left out and that is the world has not warmed since 1998 I would say the author is imagining the world is heating up that makes every thing he has said just pure and simple crap but I don’t expect you to believe what I say, lets see what your Alarmist mates have to say on the topic (not my mates but yours).In early 2008 why did the World Meteorological Organisation’s secretary-general, Michel Jarraud, tell the BBC average global temperatures have not risen since 1998? Has he changed sides or is he stating the facts?and lets not forget the climate gate e-mails which said”The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t,”Funny that statement I would have thought that the lack of global warming was a good thing not a travesty!or why would 31,487 American scientists have signed a petition,including 9,029 with PhDs saying that “There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide,methane or other Green house gasses is causing or will,in the foreseeable future,cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.Moreover,there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produces many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth”
        What are the Qualifications of Signers you may ask,
        Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

        The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,157 MS; 2,586 MD and DVM; and 12,715 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

        All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1

          Well you obviously cut&paste from somewhere.
          Shame you didn’t provide what was asked for.

        • aotearoean 9.1.1.2

          Links, James give us links.  We need to be able to assess the level of crap associated with your claims and right now it is rather whiffy.

          • felix 9.1.1.2.1

            If he pastes the whole thing a third time would that be satisfactory? :D

            • aotearoean 9.1.1.2.1.1

              It would satisfy me that he is a blithering idiot beyond redemption …

              • felix

                I know, if I paste enough text they’ll have to assume I know something they don’t. Have to be a lot though, more than anyone could possibly read. 3 or 4 paragraphs even…

        • aotearoean 9.1.1.3

          James is this your source?

          Kev from Australia

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.4

          Seems to be the standard BS from Climate Change Deniers which means that you’ve been had – again.

          Here you go, the truth.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.2

        OMG james III fiction writer extraordinaire.

        • muzza 9.1.2.1

          The biggest fiction of course comes in in believing that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet – We can influence the state of it alright that much is obvious, but thinking we can control what the wider universe will ultimately deliver is something which most people don’t like to think about.

          Much easier to believe that we are at the top, and in control, nothing else going on out there I’m sure, its all just as straight forward as we are told, because some other “smart human beings” are in the know, and that makes us nice and safe!

          Control of information is always the playbook, regardless of the debate, its always about control!

          • Vicky32 9.1.2.1.1

            The biggest fiction of course comes in in believing that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet

            Yes, true!

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.1.2.1.2

            “The biggest fiction…believing that planet earth is functioning as a standalone entity, where only humans can influence the state of the planet.”

            What are you talking about Muzza? There is a whole category of denialist arguments out there that hold that there is no way humans can be affecting the state of the planet. “Climate has always changed”, they say.

            Climatology offers a range of forces that affect climate, from solar irradiance to apparently emergent behaviour in the carbon cycle, and of course human activities. Lovelock’s “Gaia hypothesis” informs debate in many fields.

            But where are these people who believe that “only humans” can affect Earth? I think you are making them up.

            • muzza 9.1.2.1.2.1

              It’s all about blame the human being. Human beings are a parasite, and their numbers need to be controlled or culled – we will get both, and in fact historically and presently, we have control and culling!

              Maybe you can volunteer your family and friends to be removed Bloke, you know, help save the planet!

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                deleted – meant for thread above – or perhaps the “reply” function is bust…

              • Kotahi Tane Huna

                Yawn, you witless tiresome bore, but where are these people who believe that “only humans” can affect Earth?

                They don’t exist.

                • Oscar

                  They’re called warmists

                  “only mankind has the ability to control the climate with the vast burnoff of CO2″

                  Nevermind the fact that previous epochs that have come long before the Anthropocene Age had far far higher levels of CO2 in abundance.

                  What more evidence do you need, dimwit, that for mankind to continue to grow plants is that CO2 is necessary, in fact, vital, for ALL life on earth.

                  The argument was lost with the shitheads that followed Gore after his “inconvenient” lie, when consumerism began to take hold of the green side, and the entire ideal of Sustainbility and living life in balance started to get lost again.

                  Mankind has lost their way, and the balance of the cosmos is out of order. Personally, I can’t wait for people like you to be affected in the next great die off. After all, more people died in the recent northern hemisphere winter than in the last great heat wave. Bring on the ice age. I’ve got my plot of land in the far north which should be about optimal for growing enough feed for vegetarians and keeping a few animals for the savages that think they need to eat meat.

                  • Kotahi Tane Huna

                    Hard to tell where you’re coming from there champ. On the one hand you dispute the findings of Climatology, on the other you are preparing for future climate disruption.

                    “Previous epochs” had far higher levels of CO2, but not for the last 2.1 million years. You have lost your way, and your balance is non-existent.

                  • RedLogix

                    Nevermind the fact that previous epochs that have come long before the Anthropocene Age had far far higher levels of CO2 in abundance.

                    Well Oscar you are reading all the wrong places. Here is a news item, quite recent in fact, from Victoria University. It’s worth quoting in full because it directly contradicts your claim:

                    Future generations could face sea levels 20 metres higher

                    Published 20 March 2012

                    Even if we manage to limit global warming to two degrees Celsius, as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change recommends, future generations could face sea levels 12 to 22 metres higher than present, according to new research.

                    The research was published today in the journal Geology, by Professor Ken Miller of Rutgers University (New Jersey) and an international team including New Zealander Professor Tim Naish from Victoria University of Wellington.

                    The researchers studied sediment cores in Virginia in the United States, Enewetak Atoll in the Pacific and the Whanganui region of New Zealand.

                    They investigated the late Pliocene epoch—2.7 million to 3.2 million years ago—which is the last time the carbon dioxide level in the atmosphere was at its current level, and atmospheric temperatures were two degrees higher than they are now.

                    “We know that global sea levels at this time were higher than present, but estimates have varied from five to over 40 metres higher,” says Professor Naish.

                    He says the team analysed the position of the sea level 3 million years ago and concluded that it was extremely likely—with 95 percent confidence—that sea level peaked 10-30 metres above present, with a best estimate of 22 metres.

                    “Whanganui holds one of the world’s best geological archives of global sea-level during the warm climate of the Pliocene and is a key data set in this new study,” says Professor Naish, who has been conducting research there for the last 20 years.

                    Professor Naish also led an international team to Antarctica as part of the ANDRILL Project to drill beneath the floor of the Ross Sea in 2006 and discovered that the Antarctic ice sheets retreated significantly during the Pliocene epoch.

                    “What we’re seeing is that the evidence of Antarctic ice sheet collapse is consistent with evidence for sea-level rise in this new study,” says Professor Naish.

                    Professor Ken Miller, who led the study, says that sea-level rise would take time.

                    “You don’t need to sell your beach real estate yet, because melting of these large ice sheets will take from centuries to a few thousand years,” he says.

                    “The current trajectory for the 21st century global rise of sea level is 2 to 3 feet (0.8 to 1 metre) due to warming of the oceans, partial melting of mountain glaciers, and partial melting of Greenland and Antarctica.”

                    Still, says Professor Naish, the study calls into question the sensitivity of the earth’s large ice sheets to temperature change and shows that the natural state of the earth under carbon dioxide already attained in the atmosphere is one with sea levels around 20 metres above present.

                    “If the present levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are not abated, and humans were to disappear from the planet and return in 2000 years, they would find a world where the oceans have risen 20 metres,” says Professor Naish.

                    You might want to note that the people involved, Tim Naish in particular, have spent their career in the field actually gathering the data…doing the science as contrasted to merely speculating about it. This is why I listen to these people.

                    • Jenny

                      Thanks for that Red, I would just like to quote from a small part of your contribution.

                      “The current trajectory for the 21st century global rise of sea level is 2 to 3 feet (0.8 to 1 metre) due to warming of the oceans, partial melting of mountain glaciers, and partial melting of Greenland and Antarctica.”

                      This is the sort of time scale that we can comprehend as human beings, because for those of us alive now, this is the world that our grandchildren will inherit.

                      A one metre rise doesn’t seem much, but all studies suggest it will be catastrophic. Salt water intrusion in to fertile flood plains, plus storm surges will destroy the ability of many low lying countries to feed their populations.

                      Not to mention the complete inundation of many of low lying Pacific and Indian Ocean and Caribbean Island Nations.

                      More heat means more energy in the environment means increased and more violent storms, hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, coupled with drought, meaning more crop failures and famine on a global scale.

                      Acidification of the Oceans by the rising levels of dissolved CO2 will see a drop in the Ocean’s productivity, this coupled with other forms of pollution will see a collapse in global fisheries.

                      Looking beyond the human time scale:

                      In a thousand years, if the Business As Usual fanatics like Colonial Viper have their way, the remaining human survivors will be living in isolated groups as hunter gatherers, trying to survive in a severely degraded natural environment. Without science and medicine, human extinction would be a certainty being only be a matter of time.

                    • Colonial Viper []

                      In a thousand years, if the Business As Usual fanatics like Colonial Viper have their way, the remaining human survivors will be living in isolated groups as hunter gatherers, trying to survive in a severely degraded natural environment.

                      All I’ve done is point out that you’ve missed critical steps in your thinking process and that you’re pouring time and energy down an approach which is a guaranteed FAIL in our democratic system.

                      People will not choose the sudden economic decline you are advocating for.

                    • Jenny []

                      The sudden economic decline I am advocating would be nowhere near as harsh as that implemented at the outbreak of World War II.

                      i.e. Achievable

                      All that is missing is the political will.

                    • Oscar []

                      So the 3 new glaciers in Japan that were non existent 10 years ago are a direct cause of the warming effect. More like cooling to me.

                      And Red, that article doesn’t even take into consideration the Carboniferous period where sea levels were lower than today due to greater ice sheets http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html

                      As for your article, it’s unlikely that sea levels will rise 20 m as they were supposed to have risen 5 – 10 meters by now, and displaced 100m refugees according to IPCC in 2000.

      • jaymam 9.1.3

        This is the major problem with alarmists. They don’t bother to read any non-alarmist sites. They don’t keep up with the latest research. They don’t know what Gleick has done.
        There are most definitely more than 30,000 scientists (i.e. people with a science degree) who don’t believe that carbon dioxide has caused or is causing catastrophic climate change. Therefore there is NO CONSENSUS, therefore anyone who say “the science is settled” is uninformed or a liar.
        James Hansen is a liar. You should ignore him.

        • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.1.3.1

          “The latest research” – citation, dimwit.

          Quote one (just one) false statement that James Hansen has made, but please, don’t be a fool – make sure he really said it so I don’t have to school you.

          “Catastrophic climate change” is the latest climb-down in the sure but steady series of dimwit (you call yourselves “skeptics” but that’s just bullshit) defeats. Five years ago it wasn’t happening at all, but now you cling to a new blankie. Frightened child.

          Science is not an opinion poll: who gives a toss what 30,000 people think if they can’t submit their findings to peer review like everyone else has to? Are you really that easily duped? I note that in the real world, developed nations have academies of science, not one of which doubts the fact of anthropogenic climate change.

          As for Gleick, your ignorance knows no bounds: Gleick has been roundly criticised from all sides for his actions, but his biggest mistake was in bothering to engage with the Witless Institute at all: if they have findings they can share them in the literature the way everyone else has to, or they can twist and spin lies to fool morons, but why confuse their effluent with credible research unless you’re an idiot with an axe to grind?

        • Richard Christie 9.1.3.2

          This is the major problem with alarmists. They don’t bother to read any non-alarmist sites.

          What ? Forget “non alarmist” sites, for that matter forget “alarmist” sites. Science isn’t conducted on websites you moron. You want the science go to original the sources, and no, that doesn’t include your poster-boy “Never was Member House of Lords” Chris Monckton

          They don’t keep up with the latest research.They don’t know what Gleick has done.

          Jaymam, instead of buzzing in and laying eggs of denier PRATTS and then flying off again, how about you explaining to readers just how Gleick’s recent behaviour has influenced the outcome of scientific climate research in anyway whatsoever.

          There are most definitely more than 30,000 scientists (i.e. people with a science degree) who don’t believe that carbon dioxide has caused or is causing catastrophic climate change.Therefore there is NO CONSENSUS,

          Oh the stupid, you have no idea how science proceeds.

        • lprent 9.1.3.3

          jaymam: two points.

          Now what you seem to be incapable of grasping is that scientists specialize. They don’t all work in the same areas and a chemical engineer has about as much chance of understanding the melting characteristics of an Antarctic iceflow or the intermixing boundary of a cold bottom hugging current as you have – ie not at all.

          I have a BSc in earth sciences from decades ago. We received extensive training in areas related to climate change. In other words I know roughly what the debate was about inside of the earth sciences when this paper came out (I graduated in 1981). But I’m still just a lay person in terms of climate debate. I have a vague understanding on the factors that happens to be better than most. But I don’t work in that field.

          The ‘CONSENSUS’ that is referred to doesn’t apply to all scientists. It doesn’t even apply to many geologists, meteorologists, soil scientists, geochemists etc who are in related fields. It applies to climatologists who specialize in the science of climate. The rest of the scientists observe and point out holes from their fields and the climatologists look to see if they need to revise the theories. That is what science is about. It is a process that you clearly do not understand.

          AND

          The list you are referring to is just bogus. It was compiled by people as ignorant as yourself about science from several sources. These include flawed reading of the detail in scientific papers disagreeing on points with the reader clearly not even understanding what the paper. To taking the entire membership of groups like chemical engineers when a paper in their journal urged caution on political actions related to climate change. Quite simply if that was your criteria for disagreement, then anything goes.

          If I wrote a post here saying that a measurement of swell at the mouth of Doubtful Sound on one of our installations was different from what the weather office said, then some fuckwit like yourself would add me to the list as disagreeing with climate change.

          Virtually every ‘scientist’ mentioned in that list when asked will tell you that they have no idea how they got on it, and would have refused permission if they’d have been asked.

          The list is a con-job specially made up for idiots like yourself who don’t know anything about ‘scientists’ and have this moronic illusion that they all work on the same thing.

          Basically you are a scientifically ignorant idiot.

          • Kotahi Tane Huna 9.1.3.3.1

            Earth scientist comes out against AGW:

            “A measurement of swell at the mouth of Doubtful Sound on one of our installations was different from what the weather office said.”

            Be careful, lp, it sounds like you might have used a trick to hide the decline. We’d better take a look at all your emails just to make sure ;)

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3.4

          Why would we read non-alarmist sites? They’re all lying.

          What we read is the scientific research and articles that accurately report that research.

    • Colonial Viper 9.2

      james 111: yawn.

    • Bill 9.3

      What’s with the fucking pantomime?

      We are (you might say) standing in a great big tunnel and there’s a light coming closer and brighter. And some people, it seems, prefer to defer taking evasive action in order that they convince ‘everyone’ that the light is in fact a big bloody train hurtling in our direction.

      And those people, having deferred taking the action they knew had to be taken because they just had to prove a point, will be just as dead as those who argued that the light wasn’t attached to x tonnes of metal.

      Point proved. Pointlessly.

      And I wouldn’t mind so much if it wasn’t that there are so many of you buggers blocking up this tunnel that I can’t fucking move!

  10. lulu 10

    Hi Jenny,

    Just FYI we consume quite a lot of coal now in New Zealand, most of it imported. We burn it to make electricity – so much so that you would probably be in the dark if we didn’t. See

    http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-industries/energy/energy-modelling/modelling/new-zealands-energy-outlook

    Summary stats:

    Year 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011
    Generation (GWh) 41,514 42,123 42,284 42,306 42,081 43,401 44,367
    Coal 5,481 5,176 2,956 4,515 3,082 1,933 2,643
    13% 12% 7% 11% 7% 4% 6%

    If we get mean hydrology, electricity from coal will run steadily at 4-6% of total generation. It won’t be mean.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      Under Jenny’s proposal of zero coal we will have rolling 30 minute black outs around the country a couple days a month.

      • Jenny 10.1.1

        Closing the aluminium smelter at Bluff would cover most of the short fall as you well know.

        Admittedly there will have to be other measures as well, as I have already stated. I am not going to spoon feed you, with what these measures may be. But the people in this country are not noted for being dull unimaginative thinkers, in fact the opposite. Innovation and invention and optimism and courage has to be the key note.

        In my opinion Defeatism, and Denial in the face of this crisis are the two sides of the same coin.

  11. lostinsuburbia 11

    Four points – you can’t burn millions of years worth of previously sequested carbon (in oil, gas, and coal) throughout the industrialised age and not think that nothing would happen. That carbon was buried and effectively removed from the atmosphere. We’ve managed to reintroduce it in a geological heartbeat.

    Secondly, even if you don’t “believe” in climate change, why should you keep on burning pollutants? Its not only carbon dioxide/monoxide coming out of that exhust/chimney. Switching to cleaner energy sources will cut back on other harmful pollutants coming out of our transport, power stations, and factories (well that factories that are left here). This has the benefit of improving local air conditions and reducing the health impacts of air pollution.

    Thirdly, there is strong consumer demand for green products. Even if climate change was wrong, it makes good sense to target these affulent consumers with our products.

    Lastly, with the increasing costs of fossil fuels and the questions over their long term availability, we need to switching to more sustainable forms of energy anyway. We already have to spend up large on importing oil and will soon enough have to do the same with natural gas. Increasing demand for these fuels and dwinding international reserves mean that will be spending a lot more in the future. We should moving towards alternatives before its too late.

    Reducing GHG emissions are important in itself, but its also important to recognise all the other benefits you get – reduced long term energy costs, greater energy security/resilience, and new markets for our green products.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.1

      Thirdly, there is strong consumer demand for green products. Even if climate change was wrong, it makes good sense to target these affulent consumers with our products.

      No it doesn’t as doing so will remove all the resources we will need to rely upon to maintain our own society in the Post Peak environment.

  12. aerobubble 12

    Heat built up by transforming trapped hydrocarbons into gases that alters the capacity of the atmosphere to retain heat, will inevitably increase the cooling weather machines (storms). Like a refrigerator, those places where the planet discharges heat into space will get colder (continents), those places that retain heat will get warmer (oceans). This is why we see the loss of sea ice in the North Polar Sea while we see colder Antarctica interior. As this heat-cooling cycle become more pronounced we will find continents getting harsher winters while coastal regions will see more flash flooding, rising sea levels, etc. Get with the program people, destruction of Human kind.

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      Get with the program people, destruction of Human kind.

      Human kind will be around for a long time IMO; our civilisation as we know it on the other hand – that is likely to be a completely different story.

      • lostinsuburbia 12.1.1

        Our civilisation will probably come to a crashing halt with the exhaustion of easily accessible energy and mineral supplies anyway. To quote Sir Fred Hoyle,

        “It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on the Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing intelligence this is not correct. We have or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned ”

        Our rampant greed as a species will probably save the planet (and doom our advanced society) rather than any alturastic actions.

        • bad12 12.1.1.1

          Theres more then enough ”easily accessible” energy supplies all around us and it need not be that energy that is drilled mined and sold,

          The Sun comes up every day just the same as it has done so over the millenia, and, the rain falls from the sky at the same considerable rate as it has always done, (perhaps even more so in places),

          Inherent within both is enough energy to sustain society as we know it without in fact having to alter that society markedly,

          Water in itself is a vast supply of energy,water passed through a generator equals electricity,processing that same water after it has passed through a generator and using the electricity thus produced to power an industrial process creates Hydrogen Gas,

          Burning Hydrogen Gas reverses the industrial process used to create that Hydrogen Gas creating water vapour as steam as a result of such burning,

          To take that one step further,in sufficient bulk when burned, Hydrogen creates water vapour as steam which in itself can be the motive power to turn a generator and create electricity,

          The humans in their infinite capacity for stupidity simply chose the wrong energy supplies…

          • lostinsuburbia 12.1.1.1.1

            There is nothing currently that can beat the embodied energy of hydrocarbons. Not only that, but the flexible nature of organic chemistry means that they be used as the building blocks for a wide range of products.

            Hydrogen is banded about as a the solution for our fuel problems. However, it is difficult to produce at a major scale and is costly. While some effiencies may be achieved as technology is improved, it is unlikely to be the panacea to our problems.

            Using hydro dams to produce hydrogen is also problematic as the electricity they produce must be replaced with other sources. That includes additional power stations and new grid connections/lines. Also, with climate change, our weather patterns will change. This will affect our current hydro schemes – with increased chance of drought conditions limiting their use.

            Solar/photovoltatics are also part of a wider change in energy supply. However, again they have problems. They are reliant on plastics and other industrial products but as supplies of those products decrease the ability to provide adequate supplies of PV will be hampered. Also, there are difficulties in producing efficient batteries to store excess energy produced by PV.

            Even with the advance of new energy technologies, we are facing an energy constrained future. This is particularly true given the large energy inputs needed for food production and transport.

            There are no easy solutions to these problems. It will take significant population decline, decreases in individual consumption, increased energy efficiency, improved farming practices (based on reduced/smarter use of fertilizers and pesticides) and technology advancements to make it out of the mess we find ourselves in.

            Though I am a cynic and can’t see much changing given that Governments don’t like to mess with the status quo and we are organised around an economic system that requires growth in consumption.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Yep the energy density and ease of storage of hydrocarbons is unrivalled. A litre bottle of diesel can do the same work in 10 minutes as what it takes half a dozen strong men to do in a 12 hour day.

            • bad12 12.1.1.1.1.2

              Sunlight can also be used to produce Hydrogen Gas from water, while the use of solar power is not wide-spread now there can be envisaged a time in the future when all houses are fitted with a solar array to provide at least part of the energy needs of the average home,

              At present we tend to view Solar Energy from a point of view of harvesting such through the use of solar panels,

              There of course is the ability to magnify Solar Energy far beyond the simply transfer that occurs via use of solar panels,

              A child’s magnifying glass being the perfect example of such magnification of raw solar energy,

              Perhaps in the future we may come to see as we do with arrays of wind turbines, arrays of large magnifying glasses producing steam to generate electricity…

              • Colonial Viper

                All true but solar is still a highly diffuse energy source compared to hydrocarbons.

                Capturing a single day of sunlight is not really going to compete with 10 million years of sunlight, heat and gravity as stored in a barrel of oil.

              • lostinsuburbia

                I think you are missing my point that supplying everyone with PV or similar could be quite difficult – particularly when viewed from the global demands for those materials. The same goes for other advance tech given their dependence on rare earth metals and other substances.

                As for using solar on wide scale for creating steam (for turbines) it doesn’t get past the ittermitent nature of solar and other renewables. It is difficult to store their energy outputs when demand is low.

                I can’t see NZ having major power plants based on solar, any solar uptake will be based on small home or business based systems.

                New Zealand does very well in using renewables (mostly hydro) to produce the base load of its electricity supply. Its peak demand where we have a problem and currently rely on coal and gas to ensure supply. Unfortunately without practical energy storage from many renewables, we will be relying on fossil fuels for our peak demand for the forseeable future. This is particularly true given out peaks are often at winter evenings when there is no sun (maybe some wind but that can’t be relied on).

                Its the storage problem that needs to be solved – but again, storage systems usually involve signficant resources and can be highly toxic.

                • bad12

                  Solar Thermal Power tho does just that, solar thermal first looks to create storable heat and from that stored heat generates electricity in generators used now to burn gas,

                  The point of storing the heat generated from the Sun and then creating electricity from it is that such stored heat is still capable of generation after the Sun goes down,

                  Obviously country,s with desert areas will have a far higher capability for electricity production through this method than New Zealand,(in the US its estimated that 300 odd square miles of Solar Thermal plants could provide all of that country,s electricity needs),

                  Of course we could simply produce Hydrogen Gas using Solar Thermal energy production and produce electricity with the Hydrogen Gas during the peak periods when the Sun aint shining,

                  Solar Thermal power is being produced in a number of country,s ,(the neighbours apparently have a small operational Solar Thermal plant),air coolant systems while reducing the yield of the plant can be used reducing water usage by 90%…

                  • Draco T Bastard

                    Of course we could simply produce Hydrogen Gas using Solar Thermal energy production and produce electricity with the Hydrogen Gas during the peak periods when the Sun aint shining,

                    There’s no way we’d ever do that. The energy loss would be too great to make it worthwhile. Better off with standard lead/acid batteries.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Nickel iron batteries are far more long lasting than lead/acid. A high quality NiFe battery will last 30-40 years with minimal maintenance. Its the way to go.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Yes, I know, that’s why I used lead/acid as the example :P

                    • bad12

                      Really,how so???, if we were to simply build such infrastructure with the use of printed money then it is in fact free energy,its only cost being that of maintenance and transmission/transport,

                      What’s being produced now from Solar Thermal generations is simply plugged into the various national grids in the country,s producing it,

                      Spain had a bit of a celebration recently when one of its many Solar Thermal generators managed to store enough heat to generate for a 24 hour period without further heat transfer from the Sun,

                      The University of Missouri,(we think we got that one right), is said to have made a breakthrough in the tech where they have developed some form of nano-technology that allows for all the spectrum of light from the Sun to be harvested at the same time using the same material which of course will make Solar that much more efficient,

                      Shit ‘efficient’ we hate that word…

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.1.1.3

              Also, there are difficulties in producing efficient batteries to store excess energy produced by PV.

              Don’t need batteries. When the sun shines the use of hydro diminishes which keeps the hydro lakes full. Well, that works until the damns are gone then we’ll need batteries.

              Though I am a cynic and can’t see much changing given that Governments don’t like to mess with the status quo and we are organised around an economic system that requires growth in consumption.

              /agreed

      • Jenny 12.1.2

        Human kind will be around for a long time IMO; our civilisation as we know it on the other hand – that is likely to be a completely different story.

        Colonial Viper

        Without our civilisation we won’t last that long.

        90% of species that have ever existed have become extinct.

        Our civilisation gives us an edge over all other species that have ever existed. A science that lets us foresee the future, an education system that lets us recall the past and banishes superstition, medicine that lets us at the very least blunt the force of epidemics and pandemics and more than not, stopping them completely.

        All of this was hard won over many generations, the loss of all this could easily prove fatal.

        • Draco T Bastard 12.1.2.1

          It’s not our civilisation that gives us that edge but the fact that we’re intelligent and social animals. Our civilisation is a result of those two characteristics but it’s been taken too far by those who are, interesting enough, not intelligent and social – people otherwise known as RWNJs.

          All of this was hard won over many generations, the loss of all this could easily prove fatal.

          We won’t lose it all and we won’t die out. Hopefully, we’ll learn the lessons that we didn’t learn after the collapse of the Roman Empire – the lessons of living within the physical limits set by the environment.

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.2

          Without our civilisation we won’t last that long.

          You might be speaking for yourself and your social circle; you’re not speaking for mine however.

          • Jenny 12.1.2.2.1

            So, let me get this straight. Are you are advocating that we dig it all up, and burn it all up, and wreck the environment and the basis for continuing civilisation, because you believe there may be some survivors?

            • Jenny 12.1.2.2.1.1

              CV I can’t believe that you could be so selfish. The projected deaths from climate change are estimated to be in the Billions, and mostly in the third world.

              But because you believe that you and yours will be amongst the lucky survivors, you support the continued mining of coal and reckless drilling for oil, just so you and yours can have a few more decades of decadent luxury.

              You should be ashamed.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.2.1.2

              I’m not advocating that, I’m saying you can’t stop it without declaring something akin to martial law.

              Because in a democracy people will not vote for your dramatically reduced incomes, power outages and brown outs, owning a horse for their main source of transport, and spending 40 hours a week tending gardens to get enough food for their family.

              Are you are advocating that we dig it all up, and burn it all up, and wreck the environment and the basis for continuing civilisation, because you believe there may be some survivors?

              There are going to be survivors. The human race may be gone in 200,000 years, but not in the next 50.

              Barring a major extinction level fuck up of course…

              • lostinsuburbia

                Capitalism is a beast that devours itself. As resources become more scarce we will face a situation where it will become profitable to mine/extract more and more marginal deposits of oil, gas, and minerals. Ironically, given the energy and resources needed to extract these marginal deposits, the depletion of resources will be sped up.

                This is particularly true when you look at oil and biofuel production. For instance historic oil production from the Saudi oil fields has had an energy return on energy investment (EROEI) of around 100:1 ie 100 barrels of oil produced for every barrel of oil used to extract it. Where as the Alberta oil sands have an EROEI of around 3:1. Biofuels like those produced from corn in the Midwest USA have a similar EROEI to that of the Alberta oil sands. And both of these “alternative” fuel sources use prodigious amounts of water (and the depletion of global fresh water resources is another important issue – but outside this current debate).

                I don’t agree with this process as we should be rationalising our use of our resources to get the best long term use out of them. However, given our current economic models of society we will continue on our merry way to destruction.

            • aerobubble 12.1.2.2.1.3

              Remember the program people. Destroy humanity. Australian outback will turn into a green oasis in a world of cold ice locked northern hemisphere continents. Australians will be the next super power, the 22 century super power.

              NZ will be colder and where they send their convicts.

  13. Draco T Bastard 13

    Besieged by Climate Deniers, A Scientist Decides to Fight Back

    Now, however, my colleagues and I are fighting back, a task that is made easier because the findings that have made us the targets of climate change deniers have only been further validated as CO2 levels continue to rise and the world continues to warm. This is also true when it comes to the research behind the so-called “hockey stick” graph, which is what first prompted attacks on me and my colleagues.

    The science keeps becoming even more undeniable.

  14. Jenny 14

    We’re a nation of discoverors and inventors. Think Rutherford, the Hamilton jet, the rotary milk shed.

    But are we throwing that away? Five-hundred of our top scientists signed an open letter saying lack of funding and opportunities are forcing many to move overseas or go to extreme lengths just to continue their research.

    Mark Crysell found one couple who have resorted to selling off the country’s first ever organic farm to help fund the search for a malaria cure when public funding ran out.

    Plus, Professor Ian Reid from the Auckland Medical School on whether New Zealand is doing enough to stay competitive.

    Close Up: Monday, April 16 2012

  15. Jenny 15

    I also believe to achieve this outcome, will require an expansion of democracy not a contraction.

  16. Jenny 16

    The peoples interest gets pushed aside as the world’s autocratic military powers compete to;
    “Put out fire with Petrol”

    Documents show how deadly serious the scramble for Arctic resources has become.

    “As ice cap melts, militaries vie for Arctic edge”

    Last month, Norway wrapped up one of the largest Arctic maneuvers ever – Exercise Cold Response – with 16,300 troops from 14 countries training on the ice for everything from high intensity warfare to terror threats. Attesting to the harsh conditions, five Norwegian troops were killed when their C-130 Hercules aircraft crashed near the summit of Kebnekaise, Sweden’s highest mountain.

    The U.S., Canada and Denmark held major exercises two months ago, and in an unprecedented move, the military chiefs of the eight main Arctic powers – Canada, the U.S., Russia, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland – gathered at a Canadian military base last week to specifically discuss regional security issues.

    None of this means a shooting war is likely at the North Pole any time soon. But as the number of workers and ships increases in the High North to exploit oil and gas reserves, so will the need for policing, border patrols and – if push comes to shove – military muscle to enforce rival claims.

    ERIC TALMADGE Associated Press April 16, 2012

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_THE_NEW_COLD_WAR?SITE=MNROC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    “…. the terrible irony of it is that instead of seeing the melting of the Arctic ice cap as a spur to action on climate change, the leaders of the Arctic nations are instead investing in military hardware to fight for the oil beneath it. They’re preparing to fight to extract the very fossil fuels that caused the melting in the first place. It’s like putting out fire with petrol.”

    Greenpeace

    Where is their mandate? Where is the consensus? Were is the democracy?

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  • Not all photo ops are welcomed events…
    . From Facebook… .   . Nasty. [Hat-tip: Kris] . . = fs =Filed under: Odd, Conspiracies, & Other Weird Stuff, The Body Politic Tagged: Cameron Slater, Dear Leader John Key...
    Frankly Speaking | 20-04
  • Letter to the Editor: The power of the vote
    . . FROM: "f.macskasy" SUBJECT: Letters to the editor DATE: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 14:38:19 +1200 TO: "Sunday Star Times" <letters@star-times.co.nz> . The Editor SUNDAY STAR TIMES . This year, if every Labour, Green, Mana, and Internet Party supporter finds...
    Frankly Speaking | 20-04
  • Letter to the Editor: The power of the vote
    . . FROM: "f.macskasy" SUBJECT: Letters to the editor DATE: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 14:38:19 +1200 TO: "Sunday Star Times" <letters@star-times.co.nz> . The Editor SUNDAY STAR TIMES . This year, if every Labour, Green, Mana, and Internet Party supporter finds...
    Frankly Speaking | 20-04
  • High St Crossing Fixed
    You might remember a post from a while ago where Kent outlined a slightly silly situation at the top of High St. He noted pedestrians wanting to walk along Victoria St were forced to wait out a full cycle of...
    Transport Blog | 20-04
  • My name is Brian and I’m a TV addict (not in recovery).
    My name is Brian and I’m a TV addict (not in recovery). I thought it was time to let you in on some of the better  flat screen drugs currently available on the market. You’ll note that there are NO...
    Brian Edwards | 20-04
  • Drones in Yemen; policy in Wellington – ‘conflation’ or global think...
    The news on Wednesday that one of the people killed in a US drone strike over Yemen last year was a New Zealander came as sobering news. The question of how to deal with international conflict in the 21st century,...
    frogblog | 20-04
  • What to do with the Civic building
    News this week that the future of the council’s civic building is uncertain once the council move out of it later this year and move to the old ASB tower on the corner of Albert and Wellesley St. The future...
    Transport Blog | 19-04
  • 2014 SkS Weekly News Roundup #16
    6 things you need to know about reducing emissions Climate change and desertification a threat to social stability Climate concerns in a time of growing ‘climate fatigue’? Costs of climate change may prove high for future Drunken trees: dramatic signs...
    Skeptical Science | 19-04
  • Time for a local drone strike policy
    A message from Arthur McGee, founder of and spokesperson for the Commonsense Corrections Society...
    Imperator Fish | 19-04
  • AT Bouquets and Brickbats from the severe weather
    There’s a lot that Auckland Transport do that we criticise them for and I so always like being able to give them praise when they deserve it. As such this is just a quick post to say that I thought...
    Transport Blog | 19-04
  • Greens: Everywhere they look, Peters is there
    It's not bad strategy, it's not bad planning. It's not their fault at all. But unless the polls move dramatically in the next few months, the Greens are backed into an uncomfortable political corner. New Zealand First has them by the,...
    Pundit | 19-04
  • Varying explanations
    I had reason recently, in the context of discussion about a disingenuous lobby group peddling some of its “non-partisan” wares, to remember the quote: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not...
    The Paepae | 18-04
  • Mighty River Rail: A Fresh Future?
    Looking at a number of separate but current issues got me thinking about the possibility of the return of passenger services on the existing rail lines through the Waikato. These include: The potential appeal of well connected and well designed...
    Transport Blog | 18-04
  • Global warming can’t be blamed on CFCs – another one bites the ...
    A paper published in the International Journal of Modern Physics B by the University of Waterloo's Qing-Bin Lu last year claimed that solar activity and human chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) emissions, not carbon emissions, could explain the observed global warming over the...
    Skeptical Science | 18-04
  • The Road Marking Dance
    A neat video showing two clearly experienced guys painting doing road marking. Note to AT, see how easy it is to mark a street, perhaps you could get some people doing the same thing but instead of saying BUS STOP...
    Transport Blog | 18-04
  • Boundary changes
    The new electorate boundaries which will govern the election came out yesterday, and I have now had a little time to digest the final changes. Here are my three reactions. 1. Meh One of the nice things about MMP is...
    Polity | 18-04
  • There are no human rights on a dead planet
    Yesterday I spoke at the International Association of Democratic Lawyers congress in Brussels. In the audience there were over 500 hundred progressive lawyers from over 50 countries. Many of these lawyers focus on human rights issues. I called on the...
    Greenpeace NZ blog | 18-04
  • Families before commerce at Easter
    Date of Release: Friday, April 18, 2014Body:  The retail workers’ union has hit back at critics of New Zealand's modest Easter trading restrictions."Some things are more important than going to the mall, and for just three and a half days each...
    First Union Media | 17-04
  • Could this man be Prime Minister of New Zealand?
    If you’re a regular follower of this blog, you’ll know that I have in the past written some pretty scathing posts on Labour’s Shane Jones. Not to put too fine a point on it, I’ve dismissed him not only as...
    Brian Edwards | 17-04
  • Movies, feminism and postfeminism
    So, a confession: I've never really liked biographical movies about women I otherwise admire. I'm not entirely sure why - there's something about the cliches they indulge in, the Hollywood-isation. (She lapses into total vagueness revealing, yet again, that she...
    The Hand Mirror | 17-04
  • Barabbas – An Easter Story
    "All I know is that he died and I live. Maybe it’s what lies at the heart of that day."  “YOU’RE A HARD MAN TO FIND!”, exclaimed the sharp-featured young fellow, setting a jug of wine upon the table. “I’ve...
    Bowalley Road | 17-04
  • Low Traffic Forecast For Costly Warkworth Toll Road
    This is the fourth in a series of posts based on the Campaign for Better Transport’s submission to the Puhoi to Warkworth Board of Inquiry. The full presentation is over at bettertransport.org.nz Previously I pointed out that the NZTA produced...
    Transport Blog | 17-04
  • Mitigation of Climate Change – Part 3 of the new IPCC report
          Guest post by Brigitte Knopf             Global emissions continue to rise further and this is in the first place due to economic growth and to a lesser extent to population growth. To...
    Real Climate | 17-04
  • A message from Greenpeace about Simon Bridges
    I received this email today, from Greenpeace; . Hi Frank, We’ve called for Simon Bridges to be sacked over his incompetent mishandling of the Energy and Resources portfolio. The final straw was him opening the Victoria Forest Park up for...
    Frankly Speaking | 17-04
  • A message from Greenpeace about Simon Bridges
    I received this email today, from Greenpeace; . Hi Frank, We’ve called for Simon Bridges to be sacked over his incompetent mishandling of the Energy and Resources portfolio. The final straw was him opening the Victoria Forest Park up for...
    Frankly Speaking | 17-04
  • Letter to the Editor: John Key and State-sanctioned murder
    . . FROM: "f.macskasy" SUBJECT: Letters to the editor DATE: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:56:14 +1200 TO: "Dominion Post" <letters@dompost.co.nz>  . The Editor DOMINION POST . A New Zealand citizen is killed - murdered, to be more precise - by...
    Frankly Speaking | 17-04
  • Letter to the Editor: John Key and State-sanctioned murder
    . . FROM: "f.macskasy" SUBJECT: Letters to the editor DATE: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:56:14 +1200 TO: "Dominion Post" <letters@dompost.co.nz>  . The Editor DOMINION POST . A New Zealand citizen is killed - murdered, to be more precise - by...
    Frankly Speaking | 17-04
  • Judith Collins explains
    Judith Collins explains what really happened at that dinner, and why it's no big deal....
    Imperator Fish | 17-04
  • Citibanker: the age of renewables is here
    Kathryn Ryan’s interview earlier this week with Michael Eckhart, Managing Director and Global Head of Environmental Finance and Sustainability at the giant investment bank Citigroup was arresting. He was in New Zealand as a keynote speaker at the Wind Energy...
    Hot Topic | 17-04
  • Media Links: Kiwi killed in drone strike.
    I did interviews on TV 3 and Radio NZ about the drone strike that killed a Kiwi dual citizen in Yemen last year. There are many questions raised by the incident, but time constraints precluded addressing all of them. The...
    Kiwipolitico | 17-04
  • Photo of the Day: Lorne St
    A quick shot of Lorne St in front of the library. It appears Brobdingnagian gardeners have dropped by with some seriously big pot plants. I love them! About the only criticism I every heard about the shared space in Lorne...
    Transport Blog | 17-04
  • National: American lickspittles
    Yesterday we learned that America had murdered a New Zealand citizen in a drone strike in Yemen. Today, the government was closely quizzed about its views on this in Parliament. Steven Joyce (standing in for the PM) was very clear:...
    No Right Turn | 17-04
  • A $130 million gift to the rich
    When the government announced that it was selling off Genesis Energy, it deliberately underpriced it, with a discounted price, generous bonus scheme, and huge dividend. And today that has had the expected result, with Genesis shares leaping almost 20% on...
    No Right Turn | 17-04
  • Defamation via Facebook and ‘a private website’
    This defamation case should be a shot across the bows of various internet wide-boys who think ‘defence of truth’ or ‘opinion honestly held’ is some kind of magic elixir or Get Out of Jail Free card. It’s worth noting the...
    The Paepae | 17-04
  • Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink
    It is three years and one day since Danyl wrote this blog post about South Canterbury Finance. I was re-reading it today, and something stuck out like a sore thumb: December 2008: SCF undertakes a high risk loan strategy, losing...
    Rebuilding Christchurch | 17-04
  • Access: I Can’t See You, But You Should See Me
    Being lost for words when you’re a talkback host could hardly be considered ideal. But back in September of 1992, I was hosting an evening talkback show on a fledgling radio station in what was then a newly deregulated, highly...
    Public Address | 17-04
  • Judith Collins: guess who’s coming to dinner?
    Judith Collins, Justice Minister, is playing dumb in parliament at question time and avoiding media. Her patronising responses, or non-responses, to allegations of corrupt influence is not becoming of a Cabinet Minister.  Her abuse of the House by criticising questions...
    Tumeke | 17-04
  • Can fracking save the climate?
    Blogging is a great way MPs can communicate and engage with citizens about the issues facing us. I have joined The Daily Blog blogging team and have so far posted on Anadarko’s failure to find oil and a piece outlining...
    frogblog | 17-04
  • New Fisk
    A History of the First World War in 100 moments: A forgotten naval victory in which even Nature played a part...
    No Right Turn | 17-04
  • Labour’s manufacturing plan
    David Cunliffe has launched Labour's policy to get more manufacturing jobs back in New Zealand: Labour leader David Cunliffe launched the policy to an Auckland business audience this morning, adding the depreciation and procurement policies to the known suite of...
    Polity | 17-04
  • Kiwis still paying too much for ACC
    Kiwis are still paying too much for ACC so that the National Government can balance its books, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “ACC Minister Judith Collins told Cabinet levies were too high but ACC’s proposed cuts would impact the...
    Labour | 21-04
  • Collins’ memory recovery raises further concerns
    Judith Collins sudden memory of briefing the New Zealand Ambassador to China about her dinner with a Chinese border official and her husband's fellow Oravida directors raises further concerns about exactly what was discussed, Labour MP Grant Robertson says. "This...
    Labour | 21-04
  • MP to attend progressive politics conference
    Labour MP Grant Robertson will attend the Progressive Governance conference in Amsterdam later this week. “This conference brings together Social Democratic parties from around the world to discuss how progressive politics should work in the post global financial crisis environment....
    Labour | 20-04
  • Storm fans fire service commitment
    Further damage from the huge storm that battered the West Coast was prevented by the great work of our volunteer Fire Service and locals will be extremely grateful, Labour’s MP for West Coast-Tasman Damien O’Connor says. “Our region has been...
    Labour | 19-04
  • Time for Ryall to fix mistakes and help families
    Families who won a long and lengthy Court battle for financial help to support their disabled daughters and sons are now facing a new battle with health system bureaucracy and need the Health Minister's help, Labour's Disability Issues spokesperson Ruth...
    Labour | 18-04
  • Time for greater ministerial accountability
    The Green Party has today released a proposal to introduce a ministerial disclosure regime in New Zealand to improve the transparency and accountability of government.The proposal, based on the system used in the United Kingdom since 2010, would require all...
    Greens | 18-04
  • Power prices soar on the eve of winter
    On the eve of winter as New Zealanders are turning on their heaters, power prices have soared sky high, Labour’s Energy spokesperson David Shearer says. “Energy Minster Simon Bridges claimed in Parliament that prices were estimated to rise 2.4 per...
    Labour | 18-04
  • Workers can kiss goodbye to Easter Sunday off
    The Government’s decision to “reprioritise” scarce labour inspector resources by abandoning the enforcement of Easter Sunday Shop Trading laws means workers can kiss goodbye to a guaranteed day off, says Labour’s Associate Labour Issues spokesperson Darien Fenton. “The Labour Minister...
    Labour | 18-04
  • Businesses need to respect workers this Easter
    Businesses intent on flouting Easter shopping laws should face stiff penalties, Green Party industrial relations spokesperson Denise Roche said today. This Easter, at least one major garden centre chain intends to open on Good Friday despite this being in breach...
    Greens | 17-04
  • Time to deliver on 26 weeks Paid Parental Leave
    Today marks two years since Labour MP Sue Moroney's Bill extending paid parental leave to 26 weeks was drawn from the members' ballot. “It’s time the Government acted in the interests of families,” Sue Moroney says. “National has tried every...
    Labour | 17-04
  • Taxpayers robbed of $130m in Genesis sale
    Kiwi taxpayers have been robbed of $130 million by the Government in its final failed asset sale, says Labour’s SOEs spokesperson Clayton Cosgrove. “National set the price for Genesis far too low in a desperate attempt to beef up demand....
    Labour | 17-04
  • Work visa problems need monitoring
    The Government is handing out temporary work visas to migrants to work in jobs that could easily be filled by unemployed Kiwi workers in the Christchurch rebuild, says Darien Fenton, Labour’s Associate Immigration spokesperson. “In the past 12 months, temporary...
    Labour | 17-04
  • Resignation rates among cops soar
    The number of frontline officers quitting the police force is at a four-year high, with more than 350 walking off the job in the past year, Labour’s Police spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “Since 2009 resignation rates among sworn staff have...
    Labour | 17-04
  • Service for victims of sexual violence pushed out in cold
    The Green Party is calling on Housing New Zealand to revisit its decision to evict an essential community organisation in Christchurch with only eight weeks notice.Yesterday at the Select Committee inquiry into funding for sexual violence support services the organisation...
    Greens | 17-04
  • Legal high ban worthy of wider pick-up
    Auckland Council’s ban on using legal highs in a public place is an excellent idea that should be replicated around New Zealand, says Labour’s Associate Health Spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway. “Auckland Council has implemented a by-law banning the use of psychoactive...
    Labour | 17-04
  • Smith sells state P-houses to first home buyers
    Nick Smith must reassure worried first home buyers that any Housing NZ houses sold under his First Home policy will be tested for P contamination after revelations that three out of seven properties sold in Wanganui tested positive for methamphetamine,...
    Labour | 17-04
  • PM’s China visit assisted Oravida, not Fonterra
    Questions must now be asked whether it was Fonterra or Oravida who really benefited from the Prime Minister’s recent visit to China, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson Damien O’Connor says. “Before his departure, John Key said he would wait until all...
    Labour | 16-04
  • New Zealand’s use of ozone depleting gases increases
    A new Government report highlights that the amount of ozone depleting gases New Zealand is using is increasing, the Green Party said today.The report tabled in Parliament yesterday shows that total use of ozone depleting gases in New Zealand has...
    Greens | 16-04
  • Manufacturing Upgrade
    Labour is determined to support and grow our manufacturing sector. These policies grew out of the findings of the 2013 Parliamentary Inquiry into Manufacturing.  ...
    Labour | 16-04
  • Collins must admit misleading Parliament
    ACC Minister Judith Collins must front up and admit she has misled Parliament over ACC’s policy to stop paying compensation to clients who refused to fill in its privacy form, Labour’s ACC spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway says. “Judith Collins claimed Labour...
    Labour | 16-04
  • English confirms he has no plan to raise wages
    Finance Minister Bill English has confirmed he has absolutely no plans to lift wages, Labour’s spokesperson on Labour Issues, Andrew Little says. “Bill English told the Chamber of Commerce yesterday that workers could expect a rise in average income of...
    Labour | 16-04
  • Govt careless and callous about threatened birds
    The National Government is increasing the threat to two of the world's most threatened and unique birds by opening up Victoria Forest Park to petroleum drilling, the Green Party said today.Scientists have recently published a ranking of the 100 most...
    Greens | 16-04
  • Genesis: The biggest fire sale of them all
    National has finished its asset sales with a massive bonfire of a fire sale, showing once and for all how much of a disaster this programme was, says Labour’s SOEs spokesperson Clayton Cosgrove. “Just 68,000 Kiwis bought shares in Genesis,...
    Labour | 16-04
  • Interest rates rise but only smokes increasing
    Mortgage rate rises are making life harder for homeowners, and many of them will be surprised the latest CPI figures show inflation would be zero were it not for tobacco tax hikes, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson David Parker. “New Zealanders...
    Labour | 16-04
  • Term One Report Card for Hekia Parata
    Assignment Teacher’s Comments Grade      ...
    Labour | 16-04
  • Hekia Parata kept exam book errors from schools
    Schools will be appalled to learn Education Minister Hekia Parata knew since January that hundreds of exam booklets had been returned to the wrong students but said nothing about it, Labour’s Education Spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “Exams are stressful enough...
    Labour | 15-04
  • What has ACC Minister been doing?
    The ACC Minister needs to front up and explain what, if any, changes she has made to the broken culture of ACC rather than denying that she has any part to play in the dysfunction of her Ministry, the Green...
    Greens | 15-04
  • Promise of jam tomorrow takes the cake
    A claim by Minister of Finance Bill English that average wages will climb by $7,500 over the next four years is a cynical promise of jam tomorrow by a government whose record on wage growth is atrocious, Labour spokesperson on...
    Labour | 15-04
  • Judith Collins has to fess up on ACC blunder
    ACC Minster Judith Collins must front up and tell New Zealand how many people who refused to hand over their private details to ACC have been denied cover, says Labour’s ACC Spokesperson Iain Lees-Galloway. “The legality of ACC’s privacy waver,...
    Labour | 15-04
  • Board of Inquiry conditions will save rivers in New Zealand
    The Ruataniwha dam decision released today has protected the Tukituki River and dashed the Government’s hope of the “one nutrient model” (TRIM) being adopted nationwide, says Labour’s Conservation spokesperson Ruth Dyson. “It is a massive victory for those in the...
    Labour | 15-04
  • Labour turns wheels for cycling safety
    With more than a million New Zealanders now using cycling as an attractive alternative means of transport it is past time their safety was taken seriously, Labour’s Transport spokesperson Darien Fenton says. Due to speak to a cycling rally at...
    Labour | 15-04
  • SPEECH: Institute of Directors
    LEADING AND MANAGING OUR ECONOMIC FUTURE David Cunliffe MP, Labour Leader Speech to the Institute of Directors 15 April 2014, Auckland It's a privilege to be speaking here. The Institute of Directors has a proud history of developing New Zealand's...
    Labour | 15-04
  • More Oravida endorsements from John Key
    The use of a picture of John Key in an advertisement for Oravida’s scampi products in a Chinese airline magazine is further evidence of an unhealthily cosy relationship between the National Party and this company, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says....
    Labour | 15-04
  • Workers at Canterbury Yarns need redundancy support
    Workers faced with redundancy at Canterbury Yarns need a redundancy support co-ordinator, Green Party industrial relations spokesperson Denise Roche said today.Last week, Canterbury Yarns was placed in receivership. Canterbury Yarns joins a long list of New Zealand manufacturers who have...
    Greens | 14-04
  • Making the holidays easier for Kiwi drivers
    The next Labour Government will make the holidays easier and journeys quicker for Kiwi families driving on the roads, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “There’s nothing Kiwis like more than getting on the road and going on holiday. But on...
    Labour | 14-04
  • Ae Marika! 15 April 2014
    Our MANA AGM down in Rotorua on the weekend was a sold-out affair – even the media were struggling to get in! Political conferences can be very dull, but not this one. We had a great line-up of speakers including...
    Mana | 14-04
  • Green light from Labour for cancer screening programme
    Labour Leader David Cunliffe has today committed to a national bowel screening programme, starting with extending the current service to the Southern and Waikato districts. “Around 3000 New Zealanders develop bowel cancer each year and about 1200, or 100 a month,...
    Labour | 14-04
  • Adequate resourcing needed for victims’ advocate
    The establishment of a victims’ commissioner role will only be meaningful if it is properly resourced to do the job of advocating for victims’ interests, Labour Justice spokesperson Andrew Little says. Justice Minister Judith Collins has just recently indicated her...
    Labour | 13-04
  • IPCC report shows Government ignoring climate experts
    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) report into climate mitigation, just released in Berlin, shows the National Government is ignoring the pleas of the world's best climate scientists.The report says deep and fast emission cuts are vital from all...
    Greens | 13-04
  • Japan’s quick turnaround on whaling disappointing
    News that Japan plans to recommence some form of “scientific” whaling programme so quickly after the International Court of Justice’s ruling against it is very disappointing, says David Shearer, Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson. “New Zealanders expected the ICJ ruling -...
    Labour | 13-04
  • Reviewable tenancies will increase risks for vulnerable children
    Instead of kicking families out of their homes if they can pay their rent, parents with young children should have the opportunity to purchase equity in a state-built home over time, the Green Party said todayFrom July, Housing New Zealand...
    Greens | 13-04
  • 48,000 New Zealanders drinking faecally contaminated water
    Some 48,000 people were provided with water that had issues with faecal contamination, 18,000 of whom were from Canterbury, the Green Party said today. The Ministry of Health's Annual Report on Drinking-Water in New Zealand for 2012/13 shows that 48,000...
    Greens | 12-04
  • Labour will move to save the Kauri
    Labour will spend $20 million over the next 10 years to stop the spread of Kauri dieback disease, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “We are facing an ecological disaster with over 11 per cent of the Kauri trees in the...
    Labour | 12-04
  • SPEECH: Saving our Kauri
    Seech notes Good morning. Thank you for joining us here today. As a West Auckland MP I am very aware the kauri is an important part of this place. The Waitakere Ranges with their thousands of kauri, are a taonga....
    Labour | 12-04
  • MANA to continue negotiations with the Internet Party
    The MANA AGM has decided unanimously tonight to continue negotiaitions with the Internet Party. Within a month further negotiations, further consultation with MANA branches and a final decision on whether to proceed with a relationship is expected....
    Mana | 12-04
  • National’s tax dodge
      National’s insistence that it is cracking down on tax dodgers is little more than a bit of election year chest beating, Labour Leader David Cunliffe says. “Revenue Minister Todd McClay surely doesn’t believe collecting $100 million of an estimated...
    Labour | 12-04
  • Housing prices go up – Gens X & Y give up
    Today’s REINZ report shows house prices continue skyward while first home buyers are dropping out of the market, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “According to the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand the national median house price has risen...
    Labour | 11-04
  • Do Key and Adams support Chorus appeal?
    John Key and Amy Adams must tell New Zealanders whether they support Chorus’ appeal of the High Court’s ruling in favour of the Commerce Commission, says Labour Leader David Cunliffe. “Chorus’ appeal is a waste of time. The company is...
    Labour | 11-04
  • Is Judith Collins unapologising
    Judith Collins appears to have retracted her apology for failing to disclose her meeting with her husband’s fellow company directors and a senior Chinese border control official just weeks after being ticked off by John Key for not doing so, Labour...
    Labour | 11-04
  • Media Advisory
    There have been a few minor changes to the MANA AGM agenda. Moana Jackson is unable to attend due to family commitments. Speaking in his place on Saturday morning MANA is pleased to welcome Georgina Beyer and Willie Jackson. MANA...
    Mana | 10-04
  • Rest in peace Rubin ‘Hurricane’ Carter – despite the disgusting polic...
    Rest in peace Rubin ‘Hurricane’ Carter – despite the disgusting police racism and injustice you were undefeated...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Maori Party wine and dine invite
    Maori Party wine and dine invite...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • For Simon Bridges – here’s the forest you forget
    For Simon Bridges – here’s the forest you forget...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Never forget the GCSB lies
    Never forget the GCSB lies...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • The Empire strikes back
    The Empire strikes back...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • God bless capitalism
    God bless capitalism...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Drone killings erode social constraint on using violence
    The drone killing of an (unnamed) New Zealander in Yemen should prompt us to look at the ethics of this practice. We’re told from birth that murder is wrong. Yet drone killings (as conducted by the Obama administration) convey the...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Labour’s first 100 days – where the messaging needs to be
    ‘The first 100 days’, an expression coined by President Roosevelt in 1933, is generally used to describe the successes and accomplishments of a government at the time when their power is greatest. During the 2008 election campaign, John Key issued...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Pharrell: a new brand of feminism?
    I think most people heard about how the song Blurred Lines featuring and co-written by Pharrell and performed by Robin Thicke (who has adeptly just been named “Sexist of the Year”) really pissed a lot of people off last year. ...
    The Daily Blog | 20-04
  • Why Easter holidays should always be mandatory and retail free
    The moaning from retailers that they can’t open the cash registers and worship the consumer culture of consumption over Easter bores me immensely because I’ve always believed that public holidays should be mandatory. It’s not that I really care about...
    The Daily Blog | 19-04
  • Why punish the parents of the disabled?
    Parents who have adult children with disabilities saw a glimmer of hope when the promise for payment for caring for their children was given. But like most things, the complicated and relentless bureaucracy of the whole process shows a completely...
    The Daily Blog | 19-04
  • Our government: still no idea
    Happy Easter everyone, bad weather aside. A previous post of mine was called “The Government with no ideas”.  Unsurprisingly, the theme of the piece was of a current government thoroughly absent of any creative ideas or solutions to assist more...
    The Daily Blog | 18-04
  • 12 things Forbes has to say about NZs about to burst economic bubble
    Forbes is not known for their socialist or left wing activism, so when they predict a grim economic failure, we should should collectively poo ourselves a little. National often get given this perception that somehow they are better economic mangers....
    The Daily Blog | 18-04
  • That Sinking Feeling: Labour’s urgent need for persuasive words and coura...
    THE LATEST ROY MORGAN POLL has Labour on 28.5 percent (down 3.5 percent) and the Greens on 11.5 percent (down 1.5 percent). At 40 percent, the combined vote of the two main centre-left parties has fallen 5 percentage points since...
    The Daily Blog | 18-04
  • Why the Labour movement should support a Universal Basic Income
    The Mana movement’s support of the idea of a universal basic income is a welcome development. It could become one of the litmus issues that define the party and prove extremely popular. If Mana are in a position to do...
    The Daily Blog | 18-04
  • Legal high and cannabis regulation
    I marched through Henderson last month with my fellow Westies to express our concern about the impact of so called “legal highs” on our community. Some people chanted loudly calling for banning, some expressing anger at the parliamentarians who voted...
    The Daily Blog | 18-04
  • Know your Tory fellow travellers and ideologues: John Bishop, Taxpayers Uni...
    . . On 19 March, I reported on the Board members of the so-called “Taxpayers Union”. With one exception, every single member of the Taxpayers Union Board was a current (or recent) card-carrying member or supporter of the National and/or...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • GUEST BLOG: Daniel Bruce – Internet Party: What Seems Ridiculous To The O...
    Imagine you’re a 18-21 year old, from a working class family. You’ve never had a landline phone at home, because your parents can’t afford the fixed monthly bills, so everyone in your familiy has a pre-pay mobile phone. Because of the same tight...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Greens to push for housing standards in MOU with Government
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Greens to push for housing standards in MOU with Government Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 | Press Release We don’t need any more official reports. We know the problem and we have the plans....
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Mighty River squanders $3.8m preparing for sale
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Mighty River squanders $3.8m preparing for sale Tuesday, 28 Aug 2012 | Press Release New Zealanders do not want asset sales and they do not want the Government wasting millions of dollars on...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Government’s economic agenda on shaky ground
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Government’s economic agenda on shaky ground Monday, 27 Aug 2012 | Press Release Instead of betting on a boom and bust industry and selling off assets the government needs to invest in a...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • National’s tax cuts haven’t cut tax avoidance
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: National’s tax cuts haven’t cut tax avoidance Sunday, 26 Aug 2012 | Press Release It is not fair that many rich New Zealanders are cheating on their tax. National’s 2010 tax cuts, that...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Waitangi Tribunal report adds to crisis in asset sales agenda
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Waitangi Tribunal report adds to crisis in asset sales agenda Friday, 24 Aug 2012 | Press Release In its rush to sell our assets, National has found itself in a crisis of its...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Privacy across all departments needs checking
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Privacy across all departments needs checking Friday, 24 Aug 2012 | Press Release “People don’t have a choice about giving their information to the state so the Government has an absolute duty to...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Reports show Government role in driving ACC dysfunction
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Reports show Government role in driving ACC dysfunction Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 | Press Release Restoring public trust and confidence is an essential goal and will require very major change starting from the...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Government must front up on full costs of asset sales
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Government must front up on full costs of asset sales Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 | Press Release It’s time for the Government to front up over just how much these asset sales are...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • New report: middle NZ worse off, inequality grows
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: New report: middle NZ worse off, inequality grows Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 | Press Release Our society has never been as unequal as it is today. New research from the Ministry of Social...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Government to delay addressing climate change indefinitely
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Government to delay addressing climate change indefinitely Thursday, 23 Aug 2012 | Press Release “It would be a shock for any other Government to introduce such a self-defeatist piece of legislation but unfortunately...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Time to deliver on 26 weeks Paid Parental Leave
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Time to deliver on 26 weeks Paid Parental Leave Today marks two years since Labour MP Sue Moroney’s Bill extending paid parental leave to 26 weeks was drawn from the members’ ballot. “It’s...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Taxpayers robbed of $130m in Genesis sale
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Taxpayers robbed of $130m in Genesis sale Kiwi taxpayers have been robbed of $130 million by the Government in its final failed asset sale, says Labour’s SOEs spokesperson Clayton Cosgrove. “National set the...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Service for victims of sexual violence pushed out in cold
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Service for victims of sexual violence pushed out in cold Thursday, 17 Apr 2014 | Press Release Christchurch cannot afford to lose this agency The Green Party is calling on Housing New Zealand...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Resignation rates among cops soar
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Resignation rates among cops soar The number of frontline officers quitting the police force is at a four-year high, with more than 350 walking off the job in the past year, Labour’s Police...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Work visa problems need monitoring
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Work visa problems need monitoring The Government is handing out temporary work visas to migrants to work in jobs that could easily be filled by unemployed Kiwi workers in the Christchurch rebuild, says...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Legal high ban worthy of wider pick-up
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Legal high ban worthy of wider pick-up Auckland Council’s ban on using legal highs in a public place is an excellent idea that should be replicated around New Zealand, says Labour’s Associate Health...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Smith sells state P-houses to first home buyers
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Smith sells state P-houses to first home buyers Nick Smith must reassure worried first home buyers that any Housing NZ houses sold under his First Home policy will be tested for P contamination...
    The Daily Blog | 17-04
  • Brazil: Human rights under threat ahead of the World Cup
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Brazil: Human rights under threat ahead of the World Cup     Protests in Brazil:Brazil Franciscan friar kneels in front of Brazilian riot police officers asking for calm during confrontation with Landless...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Brazil: Human rights under threat ahead of the World Cup
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Brazil: Human rights under threat ahead of the World Cup     Protests in Brazil:Brazil Franciscan friar kneels in front of Brazilian riot police officers asking for calm during confrontation with Landless...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Libya: Trial of former al-Gaddafi officials by video link a farce
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Libya: Trial of former al-Gaddafi officials by video link a farce     Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi will face the courts on 14 April. © IMED LAMLOUM/AFP/Getty Images         Read...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Libya: Trial of former al-Gaddafi officials by video link a farce
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Libya: Trial of former al-Gaddafi officials by video link a farce     Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi will face the courts on 14 April. © IMED LAMLOUM/AFP/Getty Images         Read...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Algeria: Pre-election clampdown exposes ‘gaping holes’ in human rights ...
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Algeria: Pre-election clampdown exposes ‘gaping holes’ in human rights record     Freedom of expression, association and assembly are under threat ahead of elections in Algeria. © FAROUK BATICHE/AFP/Getty Images    ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Algeria: Pre-election clampdown exposes ‘gaping holes’ in human rights ...
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Algeria: Pre-election clampdown exposes ‘gaping holes’ in human rights record     Freedom of expression, association and assembly are under threat ahead of elections in Algeria. © FAROUK BATICHE/AFP/Getty Images    ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Viet Nam: Prisoners of conscience released but dozens remain jailed
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Viet Nam: Prisoners of conscience released but dozens remain jailed     Vietnamese activist Nguyen Tien Trung was one of the prisoners of conscience released this week. © Private      ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Viet Nam: Prisoners of conscience released but dozens remain jailed
    Source: Amnesty International NZ – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Viet Nam: Prisoners of conscience released but dozens remain jailed     Vietnamese activist Nguyen Tien Trung was one of the prisoners of conscience released this week. © Private      ...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • PM’s China visit assisted Oravida, not Fonterra
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: PM’s China visit assisted Oravida, not Fonterra Questions must now be asked whether it was Fonterra or Oravida who really benefited from the Prime Minister’s recent visit to China, Labour’s Primary Industries spokesperson...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • New Zealand’s use of ozone depleting gases increases
    Source: Green Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: New Zealand’s use of ozone depleting gases increases A new Government report highlights that the amount of ozone depleting gases New Zealand is using is increasing, the Green Party said today. The report...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • The issues behind the possible MANA-Internet Party Alliance
      Last weekend Kim Dotcom spoke at MANAs AGM to discuss the possibility of the Internet Party and MANA Party working together to defeat John Key this election. As someone who knows both Hone and Kim, I have a unique...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Manufacturing Upgrade
    Source: Labour Party – Press Release/Statement: Headline: Manufacturing Upgrade   Labour is determined to support and grow our manufacturing sector. These policies grew out of the findings of the 2013 Parliamentary Inquiry into Manufacturing.   – The claims and opinions...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • Get work on 29th and the ANZAC spirit deserts the TPPA
      Groser and co would have been spitting tacks last week as the ANZAC spirit deserted the TPPA negotiations. Australia has done a deal directly with Japan which undercuts the demand for Japan to opening all agriculture in the TPPA....
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • No fracking solution to climate change
    Some British tabloids and oil lobbyists have jumped on comments made by an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change author that fracking could play a role in addressing climate change as an argument for it here in Aotearoa, so is fracking...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • At Last: A Manufacturing Policy
    Source: First Union – Press Release/Statement: Headline: At Last: A Manufacturing Policy Date of Release:  Thursday, April 17, 2014 Body:  FIRST Union congratulates Labour on the release of its Manufacturing policy today. The union represents workers in the wood, food and...
    The Daily Blog | 16-04
  • ACT Speech: Three Strikes For Burglary, Three Years Jail
    Last year there were more than 52,000 reported burglaries. According to the Treasury, for every 10 reported burglaries, there are another 12 that go unreported. This means there were more than 120,000 burglaries last year – or over 2000 a...
    Scoop politics | 21-04
  • Derek Leask: Media Advisory Re: Nigel Fyfe MOJ Appointment
    Derek Leask yesterday 20 April 2014 made the following observations in response to a media enquiry about the recently announced appointment of Mr Nigel Fyfe, currently Deputy Secretary at the Ministry of Justice (Legal and Operational Services and Legal...
    Scoop politics | 21-04
  • Oceans In The Spotlight At Election Year Oceans Forum
    The marine environment will be in the spotlight at an ‘Election Year Oceans Forum’ at Kelly Tarlton’s SEALIFE Aquarium on April 27 from 10.30-12.30. A panel of non-governmental advocates and scientists will outline challenges facing our seas, and MPs from...
    Scoop politics | 21-04
  • Himalayan Trust responds to Everest avalanche
    The Himalayan Trust has launched an appeal to help the families of the Sherpa climbers impacted by the recent tragedy on Eve rest, Nepal....
    Scoop politics | 21-04
  • Himalayan Trust responds to Everest avalanche
    The Himalayan Trust has launched an appeal to help the families of the Sherpa climbers impacted by the recent tragedy on Eve rest, Nepal....
    Scoop politics | 21-04
  • Tariana Turia: Labour doesn’t deserve our vote
    Maori Party Co-leader Tariana Turia told TVNZ’s Q+A programme that Labour doesn’t deserve the Maori vote. ‘I don’t believe they deserve our vote any more....
    Scoop politics | 20-04
  • Family Court Consumers Group appalled at legal rort
    Family Court Consumers Group appalled at Lawyer for Child's "1 meeting in 10 years" taxpayer funded legal rort...
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Manufacturing Matters to New Zealand – 17 April
    The Labour Party announcement today recognises the simple truth that the manufacturing sector really matters to New Zealand’s economy as a whole, based on the part manufacturing plays in the growth of the added value element in the tradable sector,...
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Young Kiwi to Represent New Zealand at Premier Youth Forum
    Young Kiwi to Represent New Zealand at Premier Youth Forum FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Commonwealth Youth New Zealand Executive Director, Aaron Hape, has been selected to represent New Zealand at 33Fifty, the Commonwealth Youth Leadership Programme,...
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Lisa Owen interviews Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei
    Greens propose new ministerial disclosure regime based on British rules, requiring quarterly declarations of ministers' meetings, travel and hospitality....
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Politicians Should Maintain Workers’ Easter Break
    Family First NZ is rejecting calls for any liberalisation of Easter trading laws and says that workers deserve a break to spend time with their families. “This is not an issue about choice as has been argued. For many workers,...
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Lisa Owen interviews experts on Antacrtica
    Lisa Owen interviews Chuck Kennicutt and Gary Wilson on Antarctica Headlines: Top Antarctic scientists warns New Zealand "not ready" for worst as ice shelves and sea ice in Antarctica retreat and the climate changes Gary Wilson: "Can...
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Beyond the State – NZ State Houses from Modest to Modern
    As part of the our 'Active Hand of Government' series for 2014, we present Bill McKay, Senior Lecturer, School of Architecture and Planning, speaking to his new publication....
    Scoop politics | 19-04
  • Global unions applaud NZ ‘slave ships’ progress
    Global unions the ITF (International Transport Workers' Federation) and IUF (International Union of Food, Agricultural and Hospitality Workers) today applauded the steps forward made in preventing often shocking abuse of crews on fishing vessels in New Zealand...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Families before commerce at Easter
    Families before commerce at Easter The retail workers’ union has hit back at critics of New Zealand's modest Easter trading restrictions. "Some things are more important than going to the mall, and for just three and a half days each...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Easter trading laws archaic, in need of overhaul
    Press release: ACT New Zealand Easter trading laws are outdated and in need of a major overhaul, said ACT leader Jamie Whyte today....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • ALCP welcomes Campbell Live poll result
    The Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party welcomes last night's Campbell Live poll, saying it is an overdue reality check for public opinion on personal cannabis use....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Q+A This Week 20/4/14
    Q+A This Week SUNDAY 20 APRIL, 9AM ON TV ONE The latest on the US-NZ relationship from the US military’s top man in the Pacific, Admiral Samuel J. Locklear . Deputy Political Editor Michael Parkin asks him whether we’re allies,...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Community detention for pokie theft
    A 67-year-old former company director, convicted of stealing pokie machine profits, was today sentenced to six months community detention, 160 hours of community work and ordered to make reparation of $6,000....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Waitangi National Trust Board Amendment Bill
    The Māori Affairs Committee is inviting public submissions on this bill. The closing date for submissions is Wednesday, 14 May 2014....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Collaboration stops drugs from crossing borders
    Collaboration between Hong Kong and New Zealand Customs has stopped millions of dollars worth of drugs coming into New Zealand this year, with a number of seizures and arrests in both countries....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Call for public enquiry into the future of farming
    Fish & Game NZ is calling for a public enquiry “to examine the future of agriculture in New Zealand”....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Comment on Labour Policy Announcement by NZMEA President
    “This policy release from the Labour Party is so important that if it becomes government policy it would define a shift in New Zealand’s culture,” says Brian Willoughby President of the NZMEA and Managing Director of Plinius Audio and Contex...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Manufacturing policy makes sense but….
    On the surface much of Labour's prescription for manufacturing is sound though questions remain over some of the detail not yet announced, the Employers and Manufacturers Association says....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Where Are The 15,000 Jobs?
    “Paula Bennett is today proudly telling New Zealand that beneficiary numbers have decreased by 15,000 in the past year. There is no proud declaration that 15,000 jobs have been created in the same period,” says Auckland Action Against Poverty spokesperson,...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Change of approach to government procurement needed
    The rail engineering industry has been totally let down by National’s lack of manufacturing policy, and Labour’s measures outlined today represent a marked shift in approach to supporting domestic industries, the RMTU said today....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Depreciation Policy Shouldn’t Be Just for Pet Industries
    The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming Labour’s announcement to beef up rates of depreciation in the manufacturing sector, but is questioning why David Cunliffe is picking winners rather than applying the policy across all sectors. Jordan Williams,...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • FIFA U-20 World Cup NZ 2015 Kick Off Times Announced
    An array of kick-off times to suit football fans of all ages has been confirmed for the FIFA U-20 World Cup New Zealand 2015. With 52 matches spread across the nation, the public will be able to enjoy a collection...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • “Legitimate purpose” provides no protection under 167 form
    On Radio New Zealand today, the Privacy Commissioner indicated that ACC could only request information that was "relevant" for a "legitimate purpose". His view was therefore that the ACC167 form is not a "blank cheque" or...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • State: still keeping you safe on the road this Easter
    The long-awaited Easter/ Anzac break is nearly upon us while the weather may have taken a turn for the worse in several parts of the country, many Kiwis will still be packing up their cars to take a road trip....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Govt plan for community input into residential red zone
    Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel has welcomed Prime Minister John Key’s announcement today of a community participation process for the public to have a say on the future use of the residential red zone....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Governor-General to visit Turkey
    The Governor-General, Lt Gen The Rt Hon Sir Jerry Mateparae, is to visit Turkey next week to lead New Zealand’s representation at the annual Gallipoli commemorations....
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Actions of Police prior to death in custody were justified
    A report by the Independent Police Conduct Authority on the death of Adam Palmer while in Police custody found the actions of Police were justified during the arrest. The report also found that Police took all possible steps to try...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • New Electorate Boundaries Finalised
    New boundaries for the country’s 64 General and seven Māori electorates have been finalised – with an additional electorate created in Auckland. The 2014 Representation Commission has completed its statutory role of reviewing and redrawing electorate...
    Scoop politics | 17-04
  • Save The Children Welcomes Strengthening Children’s Rights
    Save the Children New Zealand welcomes a new treaty which allows children to complain directly to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child about alleged violations of their rights....
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Labour takes manufacturing seriously
    Labour takes manufacturing seriously Manufacturing workers and employers will all benefit from economic policies announced today by the Labour Party leader, David Cunliffe. The Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union has welcomed the announcement...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Manufacturing policy welcomed
    “Today’s announcement of Labour’s manufacturing policy is very welcome,” says CTU Economist Bill Rosenberg. “Just as many other developed countries are realising, having a strong manufacturing sector pays off in good jobs, retaining...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Operation Unite – a Blitz on Drunken Violence
    New Zealand Police are hoping to reduce the number of victims from alcohol related crime by asking the public to say ‘Yeah, Nah’ more often this holiday weekend....
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Dunne Speaks
    Dunne Speaks 17 April 2014 There have been a number of harrowing cases presented this week about the impact of psychoactive substances on vulnerable young people. At one level, the tales are deeply disturbing. It is awful to see anyone...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Research announcement welcomed
    A leading Māori researcher has welcomed the announcement of the 2014 Te Pūnaha Hihiko - Vision Mātauranga Capability Fund by Science and Innovation Minister Steven Joyce and Māori Affairs Minister Dr Pita Sharples....
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • At Last: A Manufacturing Policy
    At Last: A Manufacturing Policy FIRST Union congratulates Labour on the release of its Manufacturing policy today. The union represents workers in the wood, food and textile manufacturing sectors. “In a week that has seen another manufacturing company,...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Republic campaigners still positive after royal visit
    "Campaigners for a New Zealand Head of State are still feeling positive after ten days of royal events" says NZ Republic Chair, Savage. "Our polling before the visit showed increased support for a kiwi head of state. We have a...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Selling homes to foreigners benefits New Zealanders
    Winston Peters has apparently convinced David Cunliffe that when foreigners buy New Zealand property they make New Zealanders worse off. Mr Cunliffe has announced his intention to adopt Winston Peters’ policy of banning foreigners from buying...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Taxpayers’ Union Welcomes Key’s Rejection of ‘Fat Tax’
    The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming Prime Minister John Key’s rejection of fat and sugar taxes ahead of this year's election. Jordan Williams, Executive Director of the Union, says:...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Law Commission Paper on a New Crown Civil Proceedings Act
    The Law Commission has released A New Crown Civil Proceedings Act for New Zealand , its Issues Paper on reforming the Crown Proceedings Act 1950. The Issues Paper proposes a new statute to replace the Crown Proceedings Act 1950....
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Focus must now go on fishing industry jobs for NZ workers
    Maritime Union says focus must now go on fishing industry jobs for New Zealand workers...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Make the choice to stay safe on the road
    With Easter and Anzac Day giving us two successive long weekends this year there will be a lot of happy families preparing for trips....
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Students Welcome Engagement with StudyLink
    The New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations (NZUSA) has welcomed the improved performance from StudyLink in 2014. There is no doubt that getting their loans and allowances processed on time makes it easier for students to concentrate on being...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Deaf And Hard of Hearing New Zealanders Marginalised
    Deaf And Hard of Hearing New Zealanders Marginalised Imagine if you could not access vital news and information. What would you do?...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
  • Public lose interest in this council, 2016 to be a watershed
    The second term Auckland Council is proving to be an interesting one and very different to the inaugural 2010 – 2013 Governing Body. We are currently going through a budget round to lock in where council’s $3b expenditure is directed...
    Scoop politics | 16-04
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