Open mike 04/07/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 4th, 2013 - 160 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

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Step right up to the mike…

160 comments on “Open mike 04/07/2013 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    4 July 2013 at 6:09 am

    Barack Obama: You visited Mandela’s cell;
    now make a public visit to Bradley Manning’s

    A petition:

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/barack-obama-you-visited-mandela-s-cell-now-make-a-televised-visit-to-bradley-manning-s-2

    Will it happen? No. But hopefully exposes the hypocrisy, and undermines the saintly glow, of his most recent publicity stunt.
    


    • Jenny 1.1
      4 July 2013 at 6:33 am

      “In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake.

      “We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.”

      Edward Snowden

      • Morrissey 1.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 7:06 am

        In other words, Jenny, the Obama regime is as radically anti-democratic as its predecessor.

      • James 1.1.2
        4 July 2013 at 9:41 am

        I hate the whistleblower tag he is getting – simply put he is not.

        To me he deliberately set out to deceive, with the predetermined objective to leak. All agreements he signed were done with the intent to break.

        I personally think he gets what he deserves.

        “My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked,” he told the Post.

        “That is why I accepted that position about three months ago.”

        The newspaper said when he was asked if he specifically went to Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence of surveillance, he replied: “Correct on Booz.”

        • Pascal's bookie 1.1.2.1
          4 July 2013 at 1:32 pm

          He knew what Booz had b/c he’d been working elsewhere.

          This line of argument goes nowhere really.

          But explain to me why it means he wasn’t a whistleblower.

          Because he knew what was going on from a previous job, and took a new job to get the dox to prove it?

          Try harder, coz that’s still whistleblowing.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.2.2
          4 July 2013 at 1:39 pm

          So, James, if you worked for a government department that consistently broke the law and monitored all communications you’d do what exactly? Justify it to yourself? Work harder to enable it? Get excited at your poweriness?

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.3
          4 July 2013 at 1:54 pm

          A whistleblower is someone who despite having signed a confidentiality or secrecy agreement, goes ahead and publicly reveals evidence of significant wrong doing or malfaesence.

          Therefore, Snowden is a whistleblower, both in the letter of the definition and the spirit of the definition.

          That he sought to put himself into a position where he could gain additional evidence of that significant wrong doing or malfaesence – that’s besides the point.

          Also note the power imbalance here: Clapper, who is a very senior official now proven to have lied directly to Congress several times i.e. each count being a felony, is still running around scot free in charge of his empire, while they hunt down a very junior 30 year old analyst in an attempt to crucify him.

          Its like the old pricks have decided to wage a generational war on the young adults of conscience in their own country.

          Its not going to end well.

        • Murray Olsen 1.1.2.4
          4 July 2013 at 6:42 pm

          Signing an agreement to perform illegal acts does not make them legal.
          If I join an organisation indulging in illegal activity and participate in it, I am guilty. If I do not participate but remain silent, I am possibly guilty as an accomplice.

          It seems that the correct slogan is no longer “Arbeit Macht Frei”, but “Schuld Macht Frei.”
          What he deserves is a medal, at the very least. Justice would be served if Obama’s Peace Prize were revoked and given to Snowden. I also hope (not think) he gets what he deserves.

        • Morrissey 1.1.2.5
          5 July 2013 at 7:19 am

          I hate the whistleblower tag he is getting – simply put he is not.

          You are out of your depth, fool.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.3
        4 July 2013 at 12:01 pm

        How’s the Arab Spring going in Egypt? Another military sponsored coup? 2 in 2 years?

    • NickS 3.1
      4 July 2013 at 1:27 pm

      Hopefully this goes pretty smoothly, with elections by the end of the year.

      And what amazed me during the news reports last night was how many women were in the protests on both sides. While not that many, during the 2011 protests rapes and assaults were common so by the end you rarely saw any women. Seems the reporting of such fell acts spurred some changes for the better.

      [edit] Nope – 91 rapes reported over the last 4 days :/

      Also:

      “They have beards! They have beards! There are beards inside!” shouted one of those anti-government demonstrators, Mohamed Mustafa, as a minibus approached the gate, packed with more than a dozen Brotherhood supporters.

      Lawl.

      I wonder when we’re going to hear reports of forced beard-shavings 👿

    • millsy 3.2
      4 July 2013 at 8:24 pm

      Good. Never really keen on the Allah-botherers. Nasser had the right idea – string them up.

  4. mickysavage 4
    4 July 2013 at 8:16 am

    This morning’s Herald cartoon is a cracker and it raises an interesting comparison.

    Remember back in 2011 when a well publicised chat over a cup of Tea in a Newmarket cafe which was inadvertently recorded resulted in police charges, search warrants on media outlets and condemnation from the International Federation of Journalists? The insistence on rights of privacy and the use agents of the state appeared to be a bit extreme to preserve privacy in a very public setting.

    Fast track to now when our intrepid Prime Minister is so incredibly relaxed at the potential for all of our metadata being recorded and handed over to the Americans. And he considers that Peter Dunne’s rights of privacy are usurped by his role as a Minister.

    Why was Key’s and Banks’ rights of privacy considered sacrosanct but Dunne’s and Vances rights ignored?

    • Coronial Typer 4.1
      4 July 2013 at 10:33 am

      +1 there Mickey

    • weka 4.2
      4 July 2013 at 11:45 am

      “Why was Key’s and Banks’ rights of privacy considered sacrosanct but Dunne’s and Vances rights ignored?”

      Because in the world that Key envisions, it’s the people with the right kind of power that get protected. It’s not even the very rich (hence KDC), and it’s not politicians on the right side (hence Dunne), it’s those that have the right connections at the right time, and are working for the right paymasters. As far as I can tell, that’s an indictor of fascism.

      The scary thing here is that NZers won’t protest until it starts affecting them directly eg food shortages, high unemployment etc. So it makes sense to change all the other things that can be before then. By the time we start protesting seriously, it will be very much harder, because we will have lost so much sovereignty and democracy, and handed so much over to the proto-fascists.

      And does anyone here seriously expect Labour to do anything useful to solve this should they get to form the next government?

      • Socialist Paddy 4.2.1
        4 July 2013 at 11:47 am

        They are going to hold an inquiry. It might be a short inquiry and it might be a long inquiry but Shearer boy says they are going to hold an inquiry!

        • weka 4.2.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 12:13 pm

          Yeah, that should sort it.

          Someone should make a list of the things that need undoing by the next L/GP govt.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2
        4 July 2013 at 1:48 pm

        And does anyone here seriously expect Labour to do anything useful to solve this should they get to form the next government?

        Nope, they’ll just ring their hands and whinge that it’s too hard and that we can’t afford it.

  5. North 5
    4 July 2013 at 8:21 am

    Footage of the opening moments of the Dotcom raid – over the gates, the second operative comically less nimble than the first – the target unceremoniously cuffed and speedily bundled away. Said target having made the crucial tactical error of cordially meeting a handshake.

    Gotcha !
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8870216/Kim-Dotcom-arrives-for-GCSB-hearing

    Extraordinary. Now a “Police Academy XIV” how not to training video. KeyStonedCops. ShonKey Python’s SikorsKey Flying Circus.

    No wonder Ben Affleck shredded the “Argo” script submitted by the PM’s office.

    Now to the more recent event – the select committee – PM owned by Sir Kiwi Kim Dotcom. Cringe making for all New Zealanders !

  6. marty mars 6
    4 July 2013 at 8:22 am

    I know, I know, bigger issues and all that, but for those who may be interested in the Lone Ranger and the very poor portrayal of Native Americans within it including depp’s bit this analysis is great.

    http://nativeappropriations.com/2013/07/i-saw-the-lone-ranger-so-you-dont-have-to.html

  7. JK 7
    4 July 2013 at 8:41 am

    Fascinating comment on the DotCom sage, Key, and privacy – there is so much going on, its almost impossible to keep up with what this Govt is trying to do to us.

    They’re now trying to undermine local government on GMOs – just because those councils don’t think the current rules and regulations go far enough to protect the environment.

    Environment Minister Amy Adams says she’ll change the RMA to make sure Govt makes the rules about GMOs, not local govt which has to deal with the mess left behind. NZ Herald 26 June 2013.

    “And if councils have concerns about the way GM regulation in New Zealand works, they should raise those with the [Environment Protection Agency] and attempt to address the legislation on a national basis… …” she said. Yeah – right !

    But “Local Government New Zealand president Lawrence Yule said it was unfair for councils to cop the potential costs of contamination when they did not make the decisions to approve a trial or release of GM organisms.

    Mr Yule, who is Mayor of Hastings, said his region wanted to to put a moratorium on GM for ten years because it believed this would give its wine and food products a greater advantage in export markets. Under Ms Adam’s proposals, the council would not be able to reject a GM trial or release in their region which was approved by the Environment Protection Agency.

    Auckland Council was also considering a ban on GM releases and also a policy of making organisations prove they could cover the cost of a GE contamination before a trial was approved.

    • yeshe 7.1
      4 July 2013 at 10:32 am

      And imagine — while this much at least is out in the open, what on earth can be going on secretly with TPPA arrangements? Observing Key’s true incompetence and lack of intellectual heft in the hearing yesterday, I deeply fear what is going on hidden from us all, especially with Monsanto et al.

  9. yeshe 9
    4 July 2013 at 9:45 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10894619

    John Armstrong … on setting the rodent trap (with noose even) for Slippery.

    • wyndham 9.1
      4 July 2013 at 10:23 am

      The scariest thing I’ve seen in all of the Dotcom saga is the eyes of John Key on the front page of today’s DomPost. The shivers are still running up my spine.

    • felix 9.2
      4 July 2013 at 11:31 am

      From the article:

      John Key, who is chairing the hearings on the bill, generously agreed to a request from the Greens’ Russel Norman for an extension of time for Dotcom.

      WTF, Armstrong? That’s the opposite of what happened!

      Norman sought leave to ask that the committee grant further time, and Key, Banks and Ryall refused it.

      FFS is there no-one editing this shit at the herald at all?

  10. phillip ure 10
    4 July 2013 at 10:22 am

    len brown and john key have come up with a new ‘brilliant!’ solution to the problem of aucklands’ beggars..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2013/satire-len-brown-and-john-key-welcome-innovative-solution-to-beggar-problem/

    (excerpt::

    “..the solution?:..it involves the gearing up of a failed wildlife park..

    ..and the rounding up of all of aucklands’ beggars and street-people..(the ‘unsightly-ones’..)

    ..and re-homing them in tents in the ex-animal compounds..

    ..len brown said that of course there would be some extra expenses from strengthening the perimeter-fence/ramping up security/guards..

    ..(‘but we can save money by utilising existing troughs for feeding’..said brown..)..”

    phillip ure..

      • Pascal's bookie 10.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 10:50 am

        I’d say Key won’t be making any noises towards the Cons, private or otherwise, before they get a few straight months above the margin of error in some polls, surely?

        • Winston Smith 10.1.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 11:34 am

          Well you’d hope so, I’m sure memories of the bretheren debacle are still reasonably fresh

      • Watching 10.1.2
        4 July 2013 at 11:14 am

        Reading through the posting of the last couple of days I get the impression that because Key’s partners are currently f… this means dead and buried. I don’t know how any of them can come back, but in political history there are some lessons:

        …. Obama in 2010 was dead in the polls, the republicans picked a real f…w…, Obama got into election mode, and in 2012 Americans started to think about the options, and Obama won

        …. After the 2002 NZ elections the Nats were history for least a couple of terms, they then went with a ‘one tick pony’ who only had one speech and came bloody close to rolling Clarke.

        We should not dismissed out of hand that the real blue voters of Epsom and Ohariu are faced with this choice of either

        1. Two ticks for Nats but this could result in a Labour/Green/Others government

        2. If Dunne and Banks/New ACT candidate or even a new RW party stand then hand the electoral seat over and maybe providing the numbers for a Nats lead government. These voters have been voting like this for a couple of elections – they know they have two votes.

        Why I don’t dismiss this happening and with Epsom voters wanting Banks out I see Blue voters of either electorate today saying No to both option but come polling having to make a choice between a Labour or Nats lead government.

      • Tigger 10.1.3
        4 July 2013 at 11:51 am

        Let’s also charge money to people to go and stare at them. And they could be used as test subjects for cosmetics and drugs. And the chopped up for pies. Problems solved!

        • Winston Smith 10.1.3.1
          4 July 2013 at 12:25 pm

          Don’t be disgusting, I don’t want any of those smelly oiks near my pies!

  11. Winston Smith 11
    4 July 2013 at 12:16 pm

    I’m devasted, the day I thought would never come has arrived. The day when Labour would unviel the game changer, the guaranteed election winner and its finally here. All the planning, all the misdirection by Labour and Its what the people of NZ are most worried about, have been clamouring for and Labour have delivered:

    New Rule 289A. For the 2014 election the Moderating Committee shall, in determining the list, ensure that for any percentage of party vote likely to be obtained, and taking into account the electorate MPs likely to be elected with that level of Labour support, the resultant Caucus will comprise at least 45% women. For the 2017 and subsequent elections the percentage shall be at least 50%.

    New Rule 248A. An LEC may request that NZ Council determine that only women may nominate for the position of Labour candidate for their electorate. Such approval overrides the right granted in Rule 251 for any member to be eligible for nomination.

    I hope this is an elaborate hoax for I fear for the future of the National if this goes ahead…well played Labour, well played

    • felix 11.1
      4 July 2013 at 12:32 pm

      I’m sorry to hear that you’re devastated by the thought of women with power.

      Here’s what I find interesting. From poison dwarf Farrar: “No more having to compete on merit.”

      If you acknowledge that women have the same inherent merit as men, then in positions of power in a meritocracy you’d expect to see roughly equal gender distribution.

      If you see a gender imbalance, then either you don’t have a meritocracy at all, or one gender has less inherent merit.

      To believe that we currently have a meritocracy, in which women are under-represented, you have to believe that women have less inherent merit than men. This is the unspoken position that Farrar at Kiwiblog, Lusk at Whaleoil, and their little friend above are all taking.

      Is there another explanation I’ve missed?

      • Winston Smith 11.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 12:39 pm

        No no you misunderstand, I certainly don’t have a problem with women with power (I’m looking forward to the day Judith Collins leads this country :)), I’m devasted because this is a brilliant play by Labour, they’ve shown they’re more progressive than the Greens (co-leaders…pfft we’ll have a co-party!) and they’ll do whatever it takes to make that happen

        I especially like the New Rule 248A. An LEC may request that NZ Council determine that only women may nominate for the position of Labour candidate for their electorate. Such approval overrides the right granted in Rule 251 for any member to be eligible for nomination.

        Maybe Labour could rebrand as the She-Woman Man Haters Club..?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

        • felix 11.1.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 12:42 pm

          Then what’s your explanation for what I wrote above?

          Do women have less inherent merit than men or do we not currently have a meritocracy?

          • McFlock 11.1.1.1.1
            4 July 2013 at 12:52 pm

            Winston gets outraged at the thought that any organisation refuses to allow idiots like him to saunter into positions of power purely on the basis of their privileged status, rather than having to display merit.

            • felix 11.1.1.1.1.1
              4 July 2013 at 12:54 pm

              And fair enough too. It must be bloody terrifying for him.

            • Winston Smith 11.1.1.1.1.2
              4 July 2013 at 12:59 pm

              Again you misunderstand me, I’m filled with admiration for the bravery Labour are showing

              • McFlock …
                4 July 2013 at 1:13 pm

                To paraphrase KDC, you know I know exactly where you’re coming from.

                • Winston Smith …
                  4 July 2013 at 1:31 pm

                  Noooo, I don’t know what you’re referring to 🙂

                  • McFlock …
                    4 July 2013 at 1:45 pm

                    Well then, you’re either a liar or an idiot or (most likely) a misbegot unregenerate combination of the two.

                    • Winston Smith …
                      4 July 2013 at 1:56 pm

                      Thats quite a mouthful for a Thursday afternoon

                    • McFlock …
                      4 July 2013 at 2:06 pm

                      nah, but you’d need to take your foot from your mouth and stop talking shit before attempting it.

          • Winston Smith 11.1.1.1.2
            4 July 2013 at 12:54 pm

            Women have as much merit as men as evidenced by Helen Clark and Judith Collins

        • weka 11.1.1.2
          4 July 2013 at 1:17 pm

          Winston, you obviously have a problem with rule 248A. Why don’t you just say what the problem is? I know you are trying to do something witty and clever, but you’re failing, so just make your point straight.

          • Winston Smith 11.1.1.2.1
            4 July 2013 at 1:34 pm

            No problem at all, I think its quite brave to legistimise sexism in this day and age

            • felix 11.1.1.2.1.1
              4 July 2013 at 1:39 pm

              So that’s a big fat “no way” to weka’s request that you make a straight point.

              • Te Reo Putake …
                4 July 2013 at 1:43 pm

                I suspect Winston’s not quite sure what the point is, hence he’s reduced to meaningless gibberish. That’s what happens if you only read the headlines on Kiwiblog.

                • felix …
                  4 July 2013 at 1:46 pm

                  Yeah, he figures if Farrar and Lusk are both crowing about it simultaneously, it must be something he’s supposed to be saying something about.

                  He just has no idea yet what his position is supposed to be.

                  • Winston Smith …
                    4 July 2013 at 2:22 pm

                    Another scoop for Whaleoil but more worrying for Labour is that theres a mole and they’re sending stuff Whaleoils way…

                    Wonder who the whistleblower is 🙂

      • Murray Olsen 11.1.2
        4 July 2013 at 7:26 pm

        I suspect that position is only unspoken when no one outside their circle jerk is listening, felix. The women they do accept gain acceptance on the basis of overemphasising the traits which those guys see as masculine. Hence Thatcher, Collins, Bennett…….. Those who are “one of the boys” and fully prepared to attack other women in particular, especially poor ones and single mothers.

  12. Draco T Bastard 12
    4 July 2013 at 12:45 pm

    The Decline of Car Culture in the West

    1. decline preceded financial crises by 2 to 3 years [but that crisis intensified it]
    2. US Vehicle Miles Travelled is now 9% below peak and equivalent to 1995 percent level per capita.
    3. it definitely reflects a generational shift:
    4. and seems to be related to new technology:

    Perhaps Joyce’s investment in Ultra Fast Broadband will be the complete undoing of the longed for great economic outcomes from his other and much much more expensive idea; The RoNs programme?!

    But the most interesting fact was this:

    Basically, and I bet almost 99% of westerners will be shocked at this thought, but people in China, India, and, yes, Iran, are increasingly more able to do what we used to do without thinking about it: They are outbidding us for oil.

    And yet this government is building roads – roads that won’t be used because we won’t be able to afford to use them.

  13. Te Reo Putake 13
    4 July 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Oh dear, I’ve been co-opted by a southern neanderthal:

    “Mission: To preserve New Zealand sovereignty and maintain our heritage and history TRP will stand up for Western traditions, morals and values. We will not kow-tow to foreign pressure, government intimidation, or guilt-based media propaganda We must preserve our nation from mass immigration, over population, and the destruction of our way of life.”

    The above is from this year’s iteration of Kyle Chapman’s two decade long white power army fantasy, The Resistance Party (TRP). The immigration policy is particularly clever:

    “Anyone from an alien culture such as those from the savage parts of Africa, Asian dictatorships and any country who has shown a hatred or disrespect for our Nation and our way of life, such as Middle eastern countries must be stoped.”

    Dunno what stoping is, but I’m pretty sure it’ll be effective, Kyle.

    • McFlock 13.1
      4 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

      OED:

      stope, v.
      Pronunciation: /stəʊp/
      Etymology: < stope n.2

      1. trans. To cut (mineral ground) in stopes; to excavate horizontally, layer after layer; to extract (ore) by this process. Also with out. Also absol.

      KC wants to stripmine aliens, apparently.

      Personally, I love the fact that every organisation he forms ends up having a schism between its dozen or so members, so he goes of and forms another one.

      • Te Reo Putake 13.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 1:25 pm

        That’ll show them savages! btw, funny that he should have a problem with dictatorships, eh. It’s just the Asian ones he finds distasteful, apparently.

  14. captain hook 14
    4 July 2013 at 1:50 pm

    q. did you hear the one about the NSA guy spying on New Zealand.
    a. he got bored to death.

    • Rogue Trooper 14.1
      4 July 2013 at 2:10 pm

      and wotta ’bout the price of petrol? prices equaling record highs with 91 at $2.23, 7c more per litre than last week; according to BP spokesman, in line with overall trend of declining NZ Dollar.
      But what does it all mean 😀

      • Poission 14.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 2:20 pm

        But what does it all mean

        That gvt stealth taxes are higher in 2013 then 2008.

        • Rogue Trooper 14.1.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 2:35 pm

          it’s a growth industry, along with ‘small government’.

          • Poission 14.1.1.1.1
            4 July 2013 at 3:07 pm

            the stealth tax ( funding of motorways) has a significant constraint in the forecasting scenario peak cars.

            a hypothesis that usage of vehicles in a number of industrialised countries has peaked and will continue to reduce over the coming years

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_car

  15. Tim 15
    4 July 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Parliamentary QT.
    Oi notice that mole on Soimun Brudgizz left cheek is getting bigger. Does Collodi have an explanation? Gepetto’s screaming blue murder and daddy KeyS is worrying about the size of his shhnozz.
    Meanwhile Obama is still worrying about the size of his ears. (Don’t you wish!)

  16. Winston Smith 16
    4 July 2013 at 2:43 pm

    At Weka

    Whaleoil had it on his site before it was made public, someone in the Labour camp doesn’t like where Labours heading and is leaking like a sieve to Whaleoil

    Wonder who it is and what more information will come to light…

    • felix 16.1
      4 July 2013 at 2:52 pm

      Whatever. You still haven’t answered the merit question.

    • wtl 16.2
      4 July 2013 at 2:52 pm

      (Party secretary Tim Barnett) said the proposed rule changes were circulated to members yesterday, and were to be released to the media later today but were provided early after a copy was obtained by Right-wing blogger Cameron Slater.

      Source: stuff.co.nz
      So a fan of whaleoil is on the Labour Party’s members mailing list. Big deal. Hardly a ‘scoop’.

      • Winston Smith 16.2.1
        4 July 2013 at 2:57 pm

        There’ll be more to come no doubt 🙂

        • felix 16.2.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 2:59 pm

          Yeah, next time the Labour party publishes a newsletter or a press release, Lusk will have his next big scoop.

          Fuck off back to his site Winston, you’re no use to yourself or anyone else here.

          • McFlock 16.2.1.1.1
            4 July 2013 at 3:18 pm

            lol
            I almost sarcastically wrote that lusk will “uncover” that some unions donate funds to left wing parties (when someone “leaks” him the party returns web address), but then recalled that yes, they do periodically make a big deal out of this like it exposes some conspiracy.

            It’s a sad day when one can’t even exaggerate the stupidity or duplicity of tories. Such an indictment of humanity.

        • Rogue Trooper 16.2.1.2
          4 July 2013 at 3:10 pm

          all will out.

        • wtl 16.2.1.3
          4 July 2013 at 3:12 pm

          You didn’t understand the point of my comment at all, did you?

        • BM 16.2.1.4
          4 July 2013 at 3:12 pm

          Fucking hell, great way to alienate the vast majority of the voting population.
          Not only do you piss off all the Men but you piss off a great proportion of female voters as well.

          What Labour is saying to Women is that you’re not good enough to compete with the Men so we are going to change the rules to make it easier for you.
          Women HATE to be patronized.

          Utter stupidity.

          The current stuff article and poll on this which this is currently headlining is 80% against.

          • felix 16.2.1.4.1
            4 July 2013 at 3:33 pm

            “What Labour is saying to Women is that you’re not good enough to compete with the Men”

            No, that’s what you’re saying. And Winston, and The Poison Dwarf, and Lusk.

            • BM 16.2.1.4.1.1
              4 July 2013 at 3:42 pm

              It’s the way the vast majority will interpret this.

              • felix …
                4 July 2013 at 3:53 pm

                How about your interpretation, BM?

                Do we currently have a society which selects for the top positions on the basis of merit? A society in which, given an equal distribution of merit between genders, we should expect to see an equal distribution of gender in positions of power?

                Or not?

                • felix …
                  4 July 2013 at 4:05 pm

                  Hurry up BM, you’ve had plenty of time to check what Farrar thinks.

                • BM …
                  4 July 2013 at 4:16 pm

                  Of course not.

                  Why aren’t there equal number of male/female teachers or male/female nurses.
                  Answer: these professions tend to attract a lot more women, they appeal to women so you get a lot more women than men.

                  Being a politician of business manager appeals much more to men than what is does women, guys love the competitive, in your face environment of business and politics a hell of a lot more than what women do which is the reason why you see more men than women.

                  Bit surprised I have to explain this.

                  • weka …
                    4 July 2013 at 4:46 pm

                    Being a politician of business manager appeals much more to men than what is does women, guys love the competitive, in your face environment of business and politics a hell of a lot more than what women do which is the reason why you see more men than women.

                    Lolz, I thought you said women hated to be patronised. I’m surprised you didn’t put something in there about menstruation.

                    • BM …
                      4 July 2013 at 4:54 pm

                      I’m a man, it just comes naturally.

                    • fender …
                      4 July 2013 at 5:09 pm

                      You are an idiot of a little man.

                      How do you know woman don’t enjoy the ” competitive, in your face environment of business and politics” ?

                    • BM …
                      4 July 2013 at 5:15 pm

                      I’m not, I’m just saying there’s not as many of them proportionally when compared to Men.
                      Which is why you find more men than women in Parliament.

                    • weka …
                      4 July 2013 at 5:25 pm

                      “I’m a man, it just comes naturally.”

                      Thanks BM, that perfectly illustrates why the Labour party has to regulate itself to reach gender equity – because too many men will be patronising, and run self-serving arguments before they will share (my apologies to the many fine men who get why gender equity is important and why it needs to be structured in).

                    • felix …
                      4 July 2013 at 7:24 pm

                      Indeed weka.

                      Those who scoff at gender equity measures unwittingly make the best arguments in favour.

                  • felix …
                    4 July 2013 at 5:16 pm

                    “Bit surprised I have to explain this.”

                    I’m a bit surprised that you think you have explained it. All you’ve done is state it as fact!

                    Still, good to see you think for yourself and contradict Farrar for a change. He thinks the current system is a meritocracy and this will be the end of it.

            • Winston Smith 16.2.1.4.1.2
              4 July 2013 at 3:44 pm

              Just to help its currently running at: No, it seems one-sided 78.3% 🙂

      • mickysavage 16.2.2
        4 July 2013 at 3:34 pm

        These emails go out far and wide. As far as I am aware they are sent to all members. So the chances of the information being forwarded to Slater is exceedingly good.

        The information was always going to be made public. In fact if you go to http://www.labour.org.nz/about-us you will see all sorts of stuff.

        It is pretty weird that suggesting that Parliamentary representation should reflect society. The bigger issue for me is that Parliament is not reflective of Aotearoa as a whole.

        I must say that my opinion of Slater today went down and I did not think this was possible. His misogynist streak is really strong and his post about Te Reo is frankly stomach turning.

        • McFlock 16.2.2.1
          4 July 2013 at 3:37 pm

          holy shit, you still bother to read his b[l]og?

          • Winston Smith 16.2.2.1.1
            4 July 2013 at 3:42 pm

            Being that his blog is more popular then this blog, martyn brabdburys blog and red alert put together its not suprising he reads it, in fact it’d be more suprising if he didn’t

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.2.2.1.1.1
              4 July 2013 at 3:47 pm

              “…more popular…”

              [citation needed]

              Hit mining may be a good way to get advertising but it renders all claims of “popularity” moot.

              • Winston Smith …
                4 July 2013 at 3:58 pm

                Yep keep running that line, I’m sure someone probably believes it 🙂

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                  4 July 2013 at 4:05 pm

                  You’re the one making the assertions, fool. If you’d been talking about The Penguin you might have had a point.

                • felix …
                  4 July 2013 at 4:07 pm

                  How are the sales of the Whale-oil branded merch going btw?

                  I’ve never seen any of it around, which seems weird for the most popular blog in the country dontchareckon?

                  • Winston Smith …
                    4 July 2013 at 4:11 pm

                    Beats me but I do know that his views are published in other papers, he gets invited onto various radio shows and pops up on tv programs

                    But hey as you say his merch probably isn’t selling too well 🙂

                    • felix …
                      4 July 2013 at 4:40 pm

                      So you’re not really seriously arguing that he has the most popular blog in the country then, just that he gets on the telly now and then.

                      At least I think that’s what you’re saying, it’s hard to tell when you haven’t made a straight statement all day.

              • McFlock …
                4 July 2013 at 4:12 pm

                lol
                shame one can’t hit-mine a hardcopy newspaper.

            • McFlock 16.2.2.1.1.2
              4 July 2013 at 3:57 pm

              And faux news might be the most viewed “news” organisation in the states, but I’d still be surprised if an otherwise intelligent human being admitted to watching it regularly.

            • Murray Olsen 16.2.2.1.1.3
              4 July 2013 at 7:41 pm

              Slater’s hate blog reminds me of Health and Efficiency in the old days – all the fuckwits would buy it for the nude pictures but they knew it wasn’t real porn and had heard that the real good stuff came from Sweden. But Stormfront, like Hustler, isn’t work safe.

          • mickysavage 16.2.2.1.2
            4 July 2013 at 3:42 pm

            I try not to but I had a look today. I am still trying to hold onto my stomach …

            EDIT I also meant to say above that “It is pretty weird that suggesting that Parliamentary representation should reflect society receives such a negative response. The bigger issue for me is that Parliament is not reflective of Aotearoa as a whole.”

  17. Brett Dale 17
    4 July 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Shouldnt the labour party sue Cameron Slater?

    Obviously not even labour is going to have electorals when only woman can stand for them.

    What is the real story?

    • unpcnzcougar 17.1
      4 July 2013 at 4:16 pm

      WO is calling it a “man ban”. I personally don’t see this going down well with male voters and plenty of female ones. Selection should be on merit – if I think of a party that needs this it would be National as it is very much an old boy’s club.

  18. aerobubble 18
    4 July 2013 at 3:27 pm

    The NZ murder case before the privy council has one person in the frame, with motive, having had the chance to plead insanity, self-defense, etc, now cut to TV3 and yet another Bain exposure. The simple facts are that Bain did not have adequate legal council at his first trial, there were other potential murder suspects, he could have pleaded insanity or even self-defence had the evidence been there, and then what was his motive. Now add on top the Police forensics, missing basics like firearm residues, etc and the court could not even tell who killed whom. Because its obvious that in any act of self-defense there would be a scuffle, I just wont believe any journalist who says they know his guilty and then proceed to explain why, that’s pure journalism, its not even due process of law, starting with a conclusion is so gutter journalistic. Now precisely because the state cannot adequately make a case, due in large part to failures of its own resources, implicitly demands that the motto be applied, ‘innocent until proven by a fair court’. David Bain proven he did not get a fair trial, that’s enough for anyone who believes in justice for him to receive compensation, and its a damn shame so few in the media believe in justice.

    • Winston Smith 18.1
      4 July 2013 at 3:53 pm

      David Bains guilty and he can consider himself fortunate that a travesty occured at the retrial. He wants compensation then he needs to put himself up for questioning so he can answer some questions.

      • Murray Olsen 18.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 7:48 pm

        No he doesn’t. The state, with all its resources available to the prosecution, needs to answer some questions. It particularly needs to answer questions about how such a cavalier attitude can be taken to issues which result in life imprisonment. It needs to answer why Teina Pora is still in prison, why a top police officer can think integrity only ends well past the level of planting cartridge cases, why the GCSB and police routinely use powers they will only have rubber stamped by later legislation, and so on. That’s the real travesty here.

      • aerobubble 18.1.2
        8 July 2013 at 2:58 pm

        Bain, like everyone, has the right to a fair trial, and when not presented with one must be afforded the same right as everyone, you included, that of innocence until proven otherwise. Not as some have been claiming, the right to be guilty until proven beyond the balance of probabilities innocent.

        Look I don’t blame the Police for botching the case, its obvious that for decades to come that the most inept commentators will fail to provide a motive, will dismiss the likelihood of self-defense or insanity, will appreciate even less the argument that all the deaths were attributed to just one murder, or that David Bain was setup. And, let’s not forget that David Bain will not get those 13 years in jail back, so its not like he’s walking away smiling. So the question becomes why are so many, so self-assured, so rancid in their firm belief of the mans guilt. Guilt by association, the act of walking in on a murder scene, the attempt to save your loved ones, and then the realization that all you’ve done is put yourself in the frame and so made it easy for armchair windbags to opine.

        Take out the evidence, take out the personalities, and ask yourself the simple question, does innocent until proven in a fair court of law count so little in your beliefs. A fair trial has yet to find David Bain guilty, and that should be good enough for all of us.

  19. weka 19
    4 July 2013 at 3:35 pm

    One of the changes Labour are making to their Rules:

    A6 Concerning the improvement of women’s representation in electorate seats
    New Rule 248A. An LEC may request that NZ Council determine that only women may nominate for the position of Labour candidate for their electorate. Such approval overrides the right granted in Rule 251 for any member to be eligible for nomination.

    Is that a typo, that should read “only women may be nominated”? (rather than nominate).

    • BM 19.1
      4 July 2013 at 3:46 pm

      I assume that if 50% of selected candidates are already women, then any remaining positions will automatically go to Men?

    • Te Reo Putake 19.2
      4 July 2013 at 4:46 pm

      Weka, I think it is saying that the potential candidate nominates herself for the seat. Possibly not the best wording, and somewhat contradicted by the last sentence, but technically correct because, as I recall, it is the candidate that nominates themselves, with seconders.

  20. NickS 20
    4 July 2013 at 3:53 pm

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/03/2248421/mccain-doj-college-harassment/

    T_T

    I really need a low orbital anvil cannon for shit like this.

    Funny too how the libertarians treat this as a free speech issue when victims are usually harassed to stay quiet. But hey, what can you expect from the bunch of sheltered, delusion, mostly male douchebags most college libertarians are?

  21. Huginn 21
    4 July 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Pete George has raised a concern that the GCSB was used for gathering the communications and security data of Peter Dunne and Andrea Vance.

    “And also of extreme concern is what data [to the Henry Investigation] was provided by the GCSB. Appendix Three of the Henry report states that the GCSB provided “substantial assistance, particularly in the gathering of records”.

    That rings alarm bells. What “authority” did Key give the GCSB to gather data? Whatever it takes? And what data did the GCSB gather, and from where?”

    http://yournz.org/2013/07/03/key-gave-henry-inquiry-extraordinary-authority-including-gcsb/

  22. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 22
    4 July 2013 at 4:55 pm

    How many nephews does Hone Harawira have, and why are they all violent thugs?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8879069/Harawira-nephews-guilty-of-iPod-bashing

    • chris73 22.1
      4 July 2013 at 5:11 pm

      1. Probably a few
      2. Upbringing

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 22.1.1
        4 July 2013 at 5:13 pm

        Nah, it’ll be society’s fault.

        • chris73 22.1.1.1
          4 July 2013 at 5:26 pm

          I’m thinking colonization…

          • felix 22.1.1.1.1
            4 July 2013 at 6:44 pm

            Your joke is funny, because colonisation never has any effect, ever! 🙄

            • QoT 22.1.1.1.1.1
              4 July 2013 at 11:27 pm

              If it didn’t happen directly to you personally it can have no effect on you ever. Which is why Native Americans today are hunky-dory, US slavery didn’t impact the present lives of African-Americans, Australian Aborigines enjoy equal participation in society with whites, and South African inequality was eradicated the day Mandela was released.

              • felix …
                4 July 2013 at 11:50 pm

                Just once I’d like one of these fuckers – BM, chris, Winston et al – to say out loud what their alternate hypothesis for this astounding series of coincidences is.

                As if we didn’t know…

        • felix 22.1.1.2
          4 July 2013 at 5:28 pm

          lolz, you guys usually discount the environment people are brought up in and instead attribute all failings to personal morality.

          You know, it doesn’t matter where you come from if you’ve got the right attitude even a kid from a state house can be prime minister etc etc

          What’s changed?

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 22.1.1.2.1
            4 July 2013 at 5:32 pm

            Your right, Felix, individuals are not responsible for anything they do.

  23. Suitably Clueless 23
    4 July 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Wow, went over to Kiwiblog for a short time, to see what there take was on the KDC vs. JK battle. Found myself almost agreeing with redbaiter! Had to come back here to save my sanity. I should have taken the blue pill.

  24. fender 24
    4 July 2013 at 6:48 pm

    One News were reporting that there may be a sweetener to sell the Meridian shares, they gave an example where one may buy $3000 worth, pay 2 grand up front, the other grand 18 months later, but still receive their dividends for the 3 grand figure in the meantime. Interest free I presume.

    Farking Key ain’t half relaxed with bribes.

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