Open mike 06/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:45 am, November 6th, 2014 - 124 comments
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peace and securityOpen mike is your post.

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124 comments on “Open mike 06/11/2014 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    6 November 2014 at 7:14 am

    The media continues its non too subtle campaign to scare New Zealanders.
    They really do John Key’s job for him, don’t they?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10707405/Pilots-call-for-beefed-up-security

    • Paul 1.1
      6 November 2014 at 7:22 am

      Sizzle Ferguson really is a miserable journalist.
      Her interview of Michael Bott was dreadful.

      Espiner then asked Brownlee ( because Key was ‘travelling’ ) if NZ had charged any of the people Key has mentioned of terrorism. Brownlee said no.

    • tc 1.2
      6 November 2014 at 7:24 am

      Rhetorical question Paul they have been shillling for the national party since before key was PM.

      With DP and kiwis voting them back its open season now

    • AsleepWhileWalking 1.3
      6 November 2014 at 7:50 am

      Yeah I think it’s safe to say we can expect more scare media over the next few months to justify whatever has already been decided.

      Or maybe it’s just a distraction from the coming global financial reset.

    • dv 1.4
      6 November 2014 at 7:55 am

      BUT BUT BUT

      There is no problem!!!!
      , Transport Minister Simon Bridges said there was no new information to suggest security needed to be reviewed. Security was continually reassessed and, in many cases, exceeded international requirements.

      • miravox 1.4.1
        6 November 2014 at 8:15 am

        “no new information to suggest security needed to be reviewed

        Clearly the PM’s statement yesterday was at least partially incorrect. Or else Simon Bridges is wrong?

      • ghostwhowalksnz 1.4.2
        6 November 2014 at 3:45 pm

        Sounds like Pike River then:

    • Skinny 1.5
      6 November 2014 at 8:56 am

      Key-National use their all too willing media mates to soften public opinion. Yes I agree it’s scare tactic’s. It was no coincidence last night 3rd Degree runs a segment on the risk of terrorism, and the need to legislate major security changes that smooth the way for the American’s 5eyes spy program. It annoys me that the Yanks meddle in other Countries internal affairs, which leads to civil wars and the rise of radical groups. The end result is it forces Nations like ours to cramp down on civil liberties. We lose our independence and a step closer to becoming another State of America. Our future is more closer to China, however Big Brother won’t allow a bar of this.

      • JanM 1.5.1
        6 November 2014 at 10:29 am

        I tried to watch that but lasted the first 5 minutes of them carrying on like overexcited schoolboys entering a chocolate factory!

        • phillip ure 1.5.1.1
          6 November 2014 at 11:04 am

          it was better than i thought it wd be..

          ..and i find the ‘no bases here’ claim to be kinda hilarious..

          ..the deputy head of the nsa admits that yes..american-spooks are here in nz on an ongoing basis…

          ..but we are told they are ‘base’-less..

          ..(despite snowden being quite certain they have two ‘bases’ here..

          ..who ya gonna believe..snowden..?..or that lying-prick man-from-the-fed..who was sent to rule over us….)

          ..and do they all work out of their cars..?..or something..?

          ..those american-spooks..

          ..we are expected to believe these spooks have no offices/’base’…

          ..i think key just thinks that we are all just really dumb…

          ..and will swallow any old bullshit he wants to throw at us..

      • Tracey 1.5.2
        6 November 2014 at 10:50 am

        did they happen to mention that NSA has personnel in NZ, something that ought to have come out during the snowden beat up the week before the election?

  2. Manuka AOR 2
    6 November 2014 at 7:26 am

    Transcript of Noel Pearson’s Eulogy to Gough Whitlam:
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/noel-pearsons-eulogy-for-gough-whitlam-in-full-20141105-11haeu.html

    Excerpt:
    “The Whitlam government is the textbook case of reform trumping management. In less than three years an astonishing reform agenda leapt off the policy platform and into legislation and the machinery and programs of government.

    “The country would change forever. The modern cosmopolitan Australia finally emerged like a technicolour butterfly from its long dormant chrysalis. And 38 years later we are like John Cleese, Eric Idle and Michael Palin’s Jewish insurgents ranting against the despotic rule of Rome, defiantly demanding “and what did the Romans ever do for us anyway?”

    “Apart from Medibank and the Trade Practices Act, cutting tariff protections and no-fault divorce in the Family Law Act, the Australia Council, the Federal Court, the Order of Australia, federal legal aid, the Racial Discrimination Act, needs-based schools funding, the recognition of China, the abolition of conscription, the law reform commission, student financial assistance, the Heritage Commission, non-discriminatory immigration rules, community health clinics, Aboriginal land rights, paid maternity leave for public servants, lowering the minimum voting age to 18 years and fair electoral boundaries and Senate representation for the territories. “

  3. phillip ure 3
    6 November 2014 at 7:40 am

    (the good news from the american elections..)

    “..Voters Across Country Accelerate Unprecedented Momentum to Legalize Marijuana..

    ..These victories show that marijuana reform is no longer just a liberal cause..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/voters-across-country-accelerate-unprecedented-momentum-legalize-marijuana

  5. North 5
    6 November 2014 at 8:58 am

    Having watched on livestream on Tuesday night Teina Pora’s lawyer Jonathan Krebs plead Teina’s appeal before the Privy Council, I am moved to express profound admiration for Jonathan Krebs, his immense professional skill, his superb demeanour in the tribunal before which Teina seeks justice.

    More broadly, and much more importantly in a way, Jonathan Krebs has been there with magnificent awhi and aroha to/for Teina over a very, very long haul. That he is possessed of the capacity to offer/feel that uplifts him even further in my view.

    Teina’s heart must be bursting with joy at his lawyer’s acknowledgment and embrace of him. Mine certainly is, that sense almost tearfully approaching my (impotent) sadness for Teina.

    All of this stands wonderfully in powerful contra-distinction to the contemptible intimations present from the outset it would seem, that here was a little brown scumbag underclass. Ripe for fitting-up as it suited. There was no living, breathing Teina Pora human being worthy of perspective, fairness, and resulting justice, just a little brown scumbag underclass.

    GO Teina and Jonathan Krebs !!!

    • JanM 5.1
      6 November 2014 at 10:32 am

      And GO YOU too, North, for that lovely piece

    • Murray Rawshark 5.2
      6 November 2014 at 7:32 pm

      I watched a couple of hours of the Privy Council on live stream. I was very concerned at the attitude taken by the Law Lords, who seem to be looking for any reason to confirm the unjust verdicts. I am also ashamed that the Crown is presenting the same poaka lies again. The lawyer seemed very nervous to start with, but did improve.

      I feel sick that we can have such an obvious framing of a mentally weak young guy, and officialdom stands behind it rather than seeking any sort of justice. The council also seems to accept that, if a no doubt carefully selected jury believed invented evidence, that was not their concern.

      I was also appalled to read that the crown lawyer was suggesting that Teina was egged on by gang seniors, when he knows full well that Rewa was Highway 61 and Pora was Mongrel Mob. The very idea of this is as ridiculous as Phil Ure roasting a pig on a spit and inviting us all round for a feed.

      • lprent 5.2.1
        6 November 2014 at 8:03 pm

        …when he knows full well that Rewa was Highway 61 and Pora was Mongrel Mob. The very idea of this is as ridiculous as Phil Ure roasting a pig on a spit and inviting us all round for a feed.

        .. pleeeze ..
        .. you know that his revenge for that remark will be terrible ..
        .. i can just see a limp leek heading your way ..
        .. along with some homeopathic remedies ..
        .. and dietary advice ..
        .. for hitting a person on their morally insurmountable high horse ..

        lynnp

        (and in other news, I think I could nail a beer about this time)

  6. Ad 6
    6 November 2014 at 9:14 am

    Labor Australia, Labour New Zealand, Democrats in the US, French Socialist Party, German Social Democrats – each taking quite a hiding recently.

    Looks like its time for them all to compare notes. I think this is the lowest point for the global left for decades.

    Otherwise we are all going to go through the next decade of security, austerity and nationalism beating social development and redistribution.

    • westiechick 6.1
      6 November 2014 at 9:35 am

      Yes, I feel very sorry for left wing people in the US who will wake up today knowing that the people who oppose universal healthcare, excellent public eduction, etc etc have triumphed.
      It occurred to me as I was driving to work this morning that it must feel really great to be right wing right now. It would be super nice to feel that you were on the winning side, and that everything was heading in the right direction, rather than to hell in a hand-cart as we face state house sales, more charter schools, more participation in other peoples wars, etc etc.

      • Skinny 6.1.1
        6 November 2014 at 10:02 am

        The British Left are going to win the next election over there. The Tories are going to get dumped, sadly they are making changes that will be hard for Labor to correct, typical and the same will happen here I’m picking.

        The Poms hold the flag for us all, I’ll take this positive.

        Meanwhile Labour spam email “come meet the next Prime Ministers.” ffs it is the 4th time I’ve heard that line after Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe previously. Tim Barrnet I would have preferred “come listen to the leadership candidates and chose a candidate that can lead a strong Labour Party.”

        • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.1.1
          6 November 2014 at 10:28 am

          Huh? UK Labour are a centrist party, not a left wing party. The Scottish Labour Party is going to be annhilated at their next general election.

          • Skinny 6.1.1.1.1
            6 November 2014 at 3:22 pm

            Yes I that much is true CV, guess the General Secretary of a large UK Union I was having a beer with was giving a comparison to Cameron and his Tory lot. Yip Labour here is no different to other self serving LP’s.

      • nadis 6.1.2
        6 November 2014 at 2:08 pm

        Not sure i’d call the US democrats a party of the left any more. Certainly left of the Republicans that a relative position not an absolute.

        • Tracey 6.1.2.1
          6 November 2014 at 4:10 pm

          agree, there is a reason key and obama see eye to eye on many things

          • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.2.1.1
            6 November 2014 at 4:35 pm

            Republican Party are now Insane Right (with clear fundamentalist overtones)
            Democratic Party are now Hard Right (with some socially liberal tendencies)

            • Murray Rawshark 6.1.2.1.1.1
              6 November 2014 at 7:34 pm

              I think it was Gore Vidal that labelled them one party with two right wings.

    • Lefty 6.2
      6 November 2014 at 10:22 am

      These parties have all thought they could betray the people who relied on them with impunity.

      They have all become parties comprised of self-serving technocrats with two ambitions: to be the government and to manage capitalism better than the parties to their right.

      Their serial betrayals have endangered the very concept of democracy and the hope anything can be improved by voting.

      Large numbers of people have stopped voting for them, or anybody else, and no matter what happens they will never go back to them.

      And that is as it should be. The first step to building something new is to reject the old.

      The social democrat project has run its course and pretending these parties have anything to offer, or ever can again, is delusional.

      • Colonial Rawshark 6.2.1
        6 November 2014 at 10:31 am

        All over the world the Labour Party brand has been used as little more than a personal vehicle for a few thousand politically ambitious individuals.

        • North 6.2.1.1
          6 November 2014 at 11:51 am

          Colonial Rawshark @ 6.2.1 – once I would have vehemently mocked and derided you as a surly, non-believing malcontent for your comment re the careerism of ‘Labour’ politicians all over the world.

          Now, no way can I but (very sadly, tending to angrily), agree with you. There is bugger-all else to see in so many of them.

          Ready and repeated artifice piously/pompously deployed by self-interested, self-promoting scabs on The Left is gut-turning. That’s why the sight and sound of Tony Blair has me heave. No point in identifying facsimiles in the New Zealand context but we all know they’re there, and they continue self-absorbed to flag wave and dance.

          I recall 20 years ago an old man lying on his deathbed, ruefully though not I guess in total surrender, as much as apologise to his tearful wife – (with whom he’d engaged a somewhat dysfunctional marriage of nearly 50 years) – “It was the booze, aye love…….” Trenchant old Lefties they were both, God love ’em ! Up-themselves they were not. Truly caring they were. No artifice !

          Wonder if the main-chancers, the careerists will ever, even too late, drop their artifice, their superority, their essential elitism to issue thus –
          “It was the Neo-liberalism…….”

          Nah, doubt it. That’s the Neo-liberal disease for you. Far more emasculating, far more soul-wrecking than alcoholism.

          • Draco T Bastard 6.2.1.1.1
            6 November 2014 at 2:11 pm

            +1

          • Chooky 6.2.1.1.2
            6 November 2014 at 3:35 pm

            +100…maybe time to abandon Labour …and help build Mana/INT and the Greens

            • b waghorn 6.2.1.1.2.1
              6 November 2014 at 6:57 pm

              @ chookyIf People were to do that what do you think would be a realistic time frame for a left government to get back in power

          • Ad 6.2.1.1.3
            6 November 2014 at 3:49 pm

            I think we can safely say that the ruling version of economics will be entrenched for a fair while still. I don’t want to drink down the hard spirit of Left Melancholy too quickly.

            If no alternative theory or machinery of government was formed to neoliberalism after our great GFC, it won’t be for a while.

            Nope, I think to different degrees, Obama, Cunliffe, and the Australian Labour leadership forewent the great early window of political change, and chose instead the studious and worthy path of sustained compromise.

            With that compromise came inevitable communicative confusion. Compromise and confusion is what all three parties are being punished hard for across the world.

            • Colonial Rawshark 6.2.1.1.3.1
              6 November 2014 at 5:13 pm

              I think we can safely say that the ruling version of economics will be entrenched for a fair while still.

              Roughly another 10-15 years, I think. We are already in a rapid transition to a security and surveillance state, and once it becomes clear to yet another generation that what we have been promised economically will never be delivered by the power elite, then things will get truly upset.

              With that compromise came inevitable communicative confusion. Compromise and confusion is what all three parties are being punished hard for across the world.

              What exactly was the nature of Blair and Clinton’s compromises? As far as I can see, both have made tens of millions in corporate sponsorship after leaving office. The only people being asked to compromise are the bottom 95% of the world.

          • Once Was Tim 6.2.1.1.4
            6 November 2014 at 3:52 pm

            +1 ….. but cheer up (if you can survive in the meantime).
            I was thinking back over the years and talking with a friend (who has libertarian leanings).
            There seems to have been various tipping points throughout history (such as the great depression, the 51 Waterfront Strike, the 70s oil shock, the 81 Springbok Tour, and so on – followed by a bit of a lag whilst sleepy hobbits and sheeple muddle on and awaken), THEN a return to governments more concerned with the social damage having been wreaked? on the struggling populace.
            For my money, the new tipping point has already happened (the gigantic wealth transference globally – resulting in homelessness in this supposed egalitarian society; growing fear amongst the 10% and 1%ers; the realisation by growing numbers of opportunists, careerists and ‘Uncle Toms’ ). I’m hoping/thinking we’re in that ‘lag’ period.
            The bad news of course is that in today’s environment the battle is harder because the elites control almost everything – including the public sphere. Really all that means though (and what worries me most) is that as the (increasing majority) natives get restless, the more violent is a likely resolution (or swing back towards an environment where the 90% can live and function adequately).
            All the cliches run through my head (like those that don’t learn from history are destined to repeat it, we get the gubbamint we deserve, etc., etc.) True-“isms”, the lot of ’em.
            I do think however that neo-liberalism has been the most insidious, self-serving, excuse-making reason for selfish opportunist politician’s RELIGION aside from the economic dogma that comes with it.

            If they brought back the guillotine, I’d naturally be opposed – but hardly surprised. (I might even be persuaded to piss on one or two graves). The rightward swinging pendulum has swung that far – but unfortunately because of the incremental neo-liberal chip chip chipping away at anything that resembles compassionate, community-minded principles, it’s only now starting to be noticed (HENCE perhaps the reason for that ‘lag period’).
            Take heart – the lag is in progress

            • Colonial Rawshark 6.2.1.1.4.1
              6 November 2014 at 5:45 pm

              its why the power elite are rapidly criminalising dissent and instituting a surveillance and security state. This is not about “stopping terrorism.” It is about instituting bulwarks against the day a restive population wakes up to what has been done to them.

            • miravox 6.2.1.1.4.2
              7 November 2014 at 12:58 am

              Seamus Milne in the Guardian writes on the tipping point idea in a piece about the movement of voters to both the left and right in Europe. Obviously the tipping point in Europe is the imposition of austerity measures. He believes these measures have led to a fragmentation of the compromise(d) parties.

              In The Centre cannot hold he points out that the rising leftist parties come from different backgrounds but have essential elements in common.

              He believes that embracing economic orthodoxy and messing about on the margins of social and economic problems is a sure fire way to lose votes to a more radical left and to the right-wing populists.

              • Once Was Tim …
                7 November 2014 at 7:40 am

                thanks for the link @ miravox.
                We’ll see what happens with NZ Labour after the review and leadership outcome. There are various shifts left around the world – I’ll be interested in the outcome of the Victoria (AUS) election – Australians generally don’t seem to take as much shit as Kiwis do these days but I’m picking NZers will awaken in the next couple of years as they begin to realise just how vulnerable they actually are; when the ‘Kiwi dream’ of home ownership is unattainable under Natzis; when the tens of thousands of children in poverty remain; when they realise there’s actually fuck all left of NZ as a country; when more and more get converted to prepay electricity meters by privately owned electricity companies……………
                Let’s hope Labour gets its shit together pronto and is ready to be part of a coalition of the left of centre. If they don’t, I’m hopeful something else will emerge, and as I posted somewhere else – after the 2014 debacle, I’ve come to realise that I’d simply become nostalgic over what’s become merely a ‘Labour brand’ with not much substance.
                India is interesting … there are even similarities between Labour ‘careerists’ and Congress politicians where the sense of entitlement resulted in a real backlash.
                I do believe though that NZers will eventually come to realise that John Key (and Joyce, and others) have been nothing more than egotistical slick salesmen with a superior ‘marketing team’ behind them – all paid for at great expense plus 15% GST

          • Ron 6.2.1.1.5
            6 November 2014 at 5:36 pm

            Just finished reading Christopher Hitchens ‘No one Left to Lie To’ about Clinton. Well worth a read to understand how bad Clinton was.

          • RedLogixFormes 6.2.1.1.6
            6 November 2014 at 5:50 pm

            @ North.

            Every now and then someone says something that gets it more than correct. Something that transcends the simple words and rises to become touching and memorable. That comment was one of them.

            Thanks sincerely.

          • travellerev 6.2.1.1.7
            17 November 2014 at 11:09 am

            Even in my poor country of Holland it is so bad that the leader of Labour is invited to attend a Bilderberg meeting and he actually accepts. No wonder they sunk in the polls. I mean what is a Labour leader doing at the global annual ultimate rich prick meeting?

      • phillip ure 6.2.2
        6 November 2014 at 10:36 am

        @ lefty..

        “..They have all become parties comprised of self-serving technocrats with two ambitions: to be the government and to manage capitalism better than the parties to their right.

        Their serial betrayals have endangered the very concept of democracy..”

        ..+ 1..

        ..and in nz..it has been a grand-economic-coalition since the 80’s..

        ..it’s been both national and labour..joined at the economic-hip..

        ..against the rest of us..

        ..and especially against those labour has so betrayed since the 80’s..

        ..what was their original constituency…

    • RedLogixFormes 6.3
      6 November 2014 at 5:22 pm

      Looks like its time for them all to compare notes.

      As the Tories do all the time.

      I think this is the lowest point for the global left for decades.

      What ‘global left’? Therein lies the problem; the right has usurped the notion of globalism for itself, confining it’s only legitimate expression to expressions of the free market such as corporations and trade agreements.

      By contrast when the left attempt to frame a discussion in terms of global justice, the shadow of ‘creeping communism’, ‘one-world-government’ and “Agenda 21′ is immediately cast over it.

  7. ianmac 7
    6 November 2014 at 10:46 am

    Surprise,Surprise!
    “Solid Energy has announced it will not re-enter the Pike River Mine drift because the company considers the risks to life remain too high.

    Board Chair Pip Dunphy made the announcement this morning after a meeting with Prime Minister John Key in Greymouth.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11354212

  8. travellerev 8
    6 November 2014 at 10:48 am

    I kept thinking about the post from their new moderator and I wrote this this morning to express my concern about how the blog’s main operators behave. Oh and I say nice things about the Standard too

    Are Bomber Bradbury And The Daily Blog Left Wing Gatekeepers?

  9. Chooky 9
    6 November 2014 at 12:12 pm

    Keiser Report (economics for dummies) news to cheer Lefties … on :

    1. Merrill Lynch murderer bankster runs amok !

    2. Bankster psychopaths; corporate fascism; Banksters main Terrorists in the the world

    3. Educating about Economics: how university economics should be taught; debunking orthodox economics…’Kickstarter blog, ‘StartJOIN crowdfunding site’…cartoons /books.

    4. Financial sector debts …moral hazard run amok

    5. Housing bubble London ( money laundering Capital of the world)…why ordinary people can not afford a house in London

    All this and more on the Keiser Report with Max and Tracy Herbert and guests

    http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/201923-episode-max-keiser

    ( no wonder I don’t read the newspapers anymore!)

    • Colonial Rawshark 9.1
      6 November 2014 at 5:48 pm

      I love Max and Stacey 🙂

      • Chooky 9.1.1
        6 November 2014 at 6:36 pm

        yes they are a new discovery for me ….and at long last economics makes sense (Not in a good way….they explain it so well!…and it is fun!)

  10. Tom 10
    6 November 2014 at 12:40 pm

    For many of us it was a very counter-intuitive result.

    I do not remember coverage of opinion polls, but that may reflect
    my focus on other issues at the time.

    What seems to be new here (perhaps read ‘innovative’ if a “national” supporter)was increased use of ‘new media’, as well as various interest groups including Weta representing ‘the film industry’.

    Sport stars tweeting ‘vote National’ hours before the poll seems to
    breach issues of good faith and fair play in politics.

    In many countries electioneering is banned in the last days
    of a campaign so that people may come to a decision without
    campaigns targeting impulsive and impressionable voters.

    This issue has been well canvassed in areas including alcohol
    and other substances.

    I believe that National trangressed that barrier in the last election
    in fact, if not in law.

    That can only be decided by a formal legal challenge.

    • Chooky 10.1
      6 November 2014 at 1:23 pm

      “For many of us it was a very counter-intuitive result”.

      ..yes and I keep meeting people who think the Election was rigged…i havent taken this seriously up until now because i couldnt see how it could be miscounted

      …..but maybe the two weeks of early voting …there were not the same checks and balances….eg i would have thought it would have been those on the Left who voted early….but seems it was overwhelmingly those on the right.

      …also it seems to me that if early voting is allowed for the general population …then there should be a ban on electioneering and advertising during this time

      • nadis 10.1.1
        6 November 2014 at 2:15 pm

        You are kidding.

        You are suggesting the vote counting process in NZ is corrupt? You ar suggesting the civil servants, paid staff and volunteers – from all parts of our community – who ran the process are corrupt and dishonest?

        Some kind of evidence needed or you should just stfu.

        • Chooky 10.1.1.1
          6 November 2014 at 2:31 pm

          no I am saying i have been surprised by people who think it was rigged….said out of the blue by random people I wouldn’t normally expect to say such a thing….so it has got me wondering

          …if the results were so counter intuitive for random people who would vote Labour but are not what I would call particularly political animals ….then why?

          …why their disconnect with the results?….why were the results counter intuitive ? (and maybe they are right….maybe they were rigged ?…I can not see how…but it was a particularly surprising result for Christchurch)

          …obviously this has hit a raw nerve with you!…. nadis stfu….I wonder why so up tight about it?…rigging does happen you know and in the USA not just the third world…also there was a petition going around in NZ after the election with about 10,000 signatures ….so obviously a few people have concerns

          • nadis 10.1.1.1.1
            6 November 2014 at 2:46 pm

            I think corruption allegations are easy to throw around but hard to back up. I don’t think anyone rational believes there is corruption in the process run by the electoral commission and it is a slur on the real people working there to even entertain it.

            Now if you said other parts of our political system, parts of our judicial system and parts of our business world had some corrupt practices going on to a (in my opinion) relatively small degree then I wouldn’t argue with you. But not the electoral commission run process.

            The US issues are a function of the vast size of the country plus the fact that local elected bodies run the voting process, not a federal body like here in NZ.

            “a few people have concerns”. You’d find more people believing the CIA felled the twin towers, homeopathy cures ebola and the moon landings are faked. Just because you can identify a group of morons doesn’t mean we should listen to them.

            • Chooky 10.1.1.1.1.1
              6 November 2014 at 2:55 pm

              who is throwing around “corruption allegations” …”slurs” …accusations of irrationality?…you are trying to set me up…. and are fighting a straw man here…and who are YOU?… to tell me to stfu? ( obviously you dont like what I have to say here elsewhere either….a very good reason to NOT stfu…maybe you would like to take over and become the moderator of this site so you can be censor?)

              …i am just reporting on what i have heard and observed RECENTLY from random people …unsolicited…and it has surprised me!…especially since some time has passed since the Election

              ….and there was a petition going around with about 10,000 signatures after the Election…. so obviously more than a random few think the Election was VERY counter intuitive !

              ….WHY?

              • Chooky …
                6 November 2014 at 3:27 pm

                obviously some Scots werent too happy with the results of their voting either:

                http://rt.com/uk/189936-uk-scotland-vote-rigged/

                http://rt.com/shows/breaking-set-summary/188940-scotland-breakup-rigged-elections/

                ( still nothing to get up tight about ….and it is good it is up for discussion and OPEN debate…this is democracy isn’t it ?!)

                • minarch …
                  6 November 2014 at 4:02 pm

                  this would have come under the remit of the MI5 or MI6

                  there “mission statement” is to nullify ANY threats to the security of the monarchy of the UK

                  I can defiantly see Scottish independence being interpreted as such

                  much like Princess Diana and her threats to expose the dirty inner workings of the royal family

                  • Chooky …
                    6 November 2014 at 4:13 pm

                    well i am NOT saying the Scots vote was rigged….i am just pointing out that about 90,000 thought it was rigged!

                    (…may have been and may not have been…last minute the Scots may have got cold feet about going independent and got nostalgic for the UK )

                    ….but i think it is important these questions can be asked …because where you are not allowed to ask such questions and told to stfu….you do not have freedom of expression to doubt and question and think critically

                    …which is crucially important in a democracy….especially if the result of an Election is very counter- intuitive to many people

                    …it is interesting when people would like in fact to shut other people up and close down discussion….imo be very wary of these people!…it is a mark of fascism

                    • chris73 …
                      6 November 2014 at 5:26 pm

                      There were plenty of polls saying how well National was doing and how badly Labour was doing in the lead up to the election however I distinctly remember you (and others of course) quoting Jim Bolgers line about “bugger the polls” and “the only poll that counts is on election day”

                      So you were being told this was going to happen but you chose to ignore them and now you think something was up…no you chose to ignore the information presented to you because it didn’t fit with what you wanted to believe

                    • Chooky …
                      6 November 2014 at 6:23 pm

                      chris 73…sigh…. (if you read the thread from its beginning) …i am commenting on Tom’s comment “For many of us it was a very counter-intuitive result”…and I am agreeing and saying “yes and I keep meeting people who think the Election was rigged”

                      NOTE: ..it is not me making the argument or the case that the Election was rigged .. “i am just reporting on what i have heard and observed RECENTLY from random people …unsolicited…and it has surprised me!…especially since some time has passed since the Election”

                      …lets face it some 10,000 NZers signed a petition arguing that the Election was rigged …….and surprising to me, people still do think it was rigged ( well maybe it was?! …and maybe it wasnt…)

                      ..actually I suspect it was the so called ‘terrorist’ raids in Australia and front page newspaper scare-mongering one day before the Election that swung it decisively to the Right…and of course there were plenty of other dirty politics PR tricks in the week leading up to the Election as well as the msm bias

                      ….and of course you are correct….some of the polls did predict a Nact win….most others predicted too close to call …with the proviso that the swing often went from Right to Left on Election day…I still say “Bugger the Polls!”….because continuously used they are used as a a PR tool and they skew views away form policy towards petty point scoring

                    • chris73 …
                      6 November 2014 at 6:33 pm

                      10 000 people clicked on a button on the net, big deal. More people voted for ALCP. Had the technology been around in other elections I’m sure you’d have got much the same reaction

                      Labour Party 604,535
                      Green Party 257,359
                      New Zealand First Party 208,300
                      Māori Party 31,849
                      ACT New Zealand 16,689
                      United Future 5,286
                      Conservative 95,598
                      Internet MANA 34,094
                      Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party 10,961

                    • Chooky …
                      6 November 2014 at 6:53 pm

                      derrrh!….haven’t you got better things to do with yourself ?..

                    • chris73 …
                      6 November 2014 at 6:58 pm

                      You should be thanking me, this way you can disavow yourself of the notion that somehow the left were robbed of the election and can instead focus on why the left is so unpopular (which is why they lost) and maybe, just maybe make the left popular enough to win the next election

                      I wouldn’t hold my breath on that happening though

                    • Chooky …
                      6 November 2014 at 11:17 pm

                      chris 73…the Left didn’t lose by much so bullshit to your advice to “focus on why the left is so unpopular”

                      …why dont you stick your head in a bucket of iced water?….and then you can hold your breath

                      ….even better maybe someone will turn up something that proves the Election WAS rigged! (…just saying…. as you and others are so sensitive about this…maybe you are scared it is really true ) …..and we will have to have another Election!….(bet you wont win!)

                    • b waghorn …
                      7 November 2014 at 6:40 am

                      I asked at the polling office when I voted early what happened to votes at night and bloke reckoned that one of them took them home for the night ,this didn’t strike me as very secure

                    • Chooky …
                      7 November 2014 at 8:55 am

                      @b waghorn….wow that is concerning! ( given the dirty tricks by the Nacts and their absolute determination to stop at nothing to win!

                      I think next time they want online voting…even less secure ….re Florida vote rigging

  11. Draco T Bastard 11
    6 November 2014 at 1:27 pm

    Facebook friends’ voting has impact on Election Day turnout, study finds

    The scientists concluded that the informational message was ineffective. The social message, on the other hand, was powerful because it probably provided social pressure on the users to vote by showing them that friends had reported voting, Fowler said.

    This does indicate that we need to use social media better but, of course, not everyone is connected to social media. The other option is to get people more socially involved and encouraged to participate in politics.

  12. Tracey 12
    6 November 2014 at 2:29 pm

    CTU appeared before Transport and Industrial Relations Committee on its submission about the Health and Safety Reform Bill. deciding on whether or not to water down employers obligations to keep workers safe.

    The following comment by Wagstaff is interesting, note that having created contractors to save themselves money and get around obligations which would otherwise dent their profit they now hide behind the contractors.

    “…We are concerned that some employers are trying to undermine the recommendations of these Inquiries by weakening the Bill. The arguments for doing so rest on flimsy evidence and we call on the Committee to challenge scaremongering and weak evidence by submitters.” Wagstaff said.

    “For example, Port companies have complained that the expanded duties in the bill are too onerous in their industry given the widespread use of contractors. Their own record is an illustration of why these expanded duties are absolutely essential. Seven deaths and 133 serious accidents since 2011 for a total ports workforce of 4,000 shows why the status quo is unacceptable. The reprehensible attempt by Lyttelton Port Company to duck responsibility for three deaths at the Port in the last year by saying two of the workers who died were not their employees simply confirms the importance of them taking responsibility for a complex employment structure from which they benefit and which they exercise considerable control over.” Wagstaff said. …”

  13. Penny Bright 13
    6 November 2014 at 3:26 pm

    Ok folks – all of you who are concerned about corruption in New Zealand – here’s your chance to do/say something about it ……

    MEDIA ALERT – Closing date for submissions on the Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill is 5 February 2015

    LIFTOFF!

    The Law and Order Select Committee are accepting submissions on the Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill.

    The passage of this Bill is required, before New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, can RATIFY the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).

    (Wouldn’t you think New Zealand would have ratified UNCAC years ago???)

    Closing date for submissions is 5 February 2015.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/details/law-order/00DBHOH_BBSC_SCLO_1/business-before-the-law-and-order-committee

    If New Zealand was truly the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ – don’t you think we’d be the MOST ‘transparent’?

    Here’s a one page anti-corruption reality checklist – an anti-corruption ‘ACTION PLAN’ for New Zealand:

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

    Penny Bright

    Anti-corruption ‘whistle-blower’

    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2010
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2014

    Campaigned against ‘corrupt corporate control’ as an Auckland Mayoral candidate in 2013, and polled 4th with 11,723 votes.

    • nadis 13.1
      6 November 2014 at 3:39 pm

      I’m not criticising what you’re doing because I think a lot of what goes on at council level does meet the definition of corruption as well as ridiculous waste, however the UNCAC isn’t really the answer.

      By ratifying, we could join such illustrious beacons of good practice and fervent anti-corruption like Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Sudan, Libya, Iraq, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Syria, Yemen, Haiti, Guinea-Bisseau, Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Cambodia, Myanmar, Takijstan, Congo (both brands), Angola, PAraguay, Russia, Ukraine etc.

      • Chooky 13.1.1
        7 November 2014 at 9:22 am

        …yes …interesting that most of those countries you mention with disdain have already been fucked over for other reasons outside their control…..hence by outside more powerful countries bent on exploitation!

        ….maybe the United nations Anti-Corruption Charter is their attempt at self protection

        …so your dissing this United Nations Anti- Corruption Charter it is interesting, to say the least !…whose side are you on exactly?

    • Chooky 13.2
      6 November 2014 at 4:04 pm

      +100 ..Go Penny…you do great work for transparency and accountability and combating corruption!

      …and YES to your question: “Wouldn’t you think New Zealand would have ratified UNCAC years ago???”

      Yes why hasn’t New Zealand signed the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) ?

      • chris73 13.2.1
        6 November 2014 at 5:26 pm

        Yes why hasn’t New Zealand signed the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) ?

        – Because its a joke and isn’t needed?

        • Chooky 13.2.1.1
          7 November 2014 at 9:09 am

          i expect you think United Nations is a joke as well….says it all really! ( quite appalling!)

          …and the absolute imperative that New Zealand needs to sign up to the ‘United Nations Convention Against Corruption’ ! It is a disgrace it hasnt already!

          ….what is it that certain people in authority in this country have to hide?…why are they dragging the chain?…..business and corporate corruption?….white collar crime?…it is absolutely imperative that the leaders and those in authority in New Zealand become accountable for ensuring corruption does not happen here amongst their own oligarchy

          ….and when corruption does occur it is stomped on and the perpetrators are held accountable before the courts and if necessary sent to jail … like the rest of New Zealanders who are accountable before the law for dishonesty and ill gotten gains, exploitation and corruption

          • higherstandard 13.2.1.1.1
            7 November 2014 at 10:20 am

            NZ has signed up to the UNCAC.

            • Chooky 13.2.1.1.1.1
              7 November 2014 at 1:23 pm

              @ higherstandard……Are you saying Penny is incorrect?

              …How does “ratify” differ from “sign up”? (dictionary definition of “ratify” = sign or give formal consent to (a treaty, contract, or agreement), making it officially valid.)

              …. According to Penny…( and others agree NZ has not signed up or ratified)

              “The Law and Order Select Committee are accepting submissions on the Organised Crime and Anti-Corruption Legislation Bill.

              The passage of this Bill is required, before New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’, can RATIFY the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC).

              (Wouldn’t you think New Zealand would have ratified UNCAC years ago???)”

                • Chooky …
                  7 November 2014 at 4:03 pm

                  OK : splitting hairs ….but thanks for the information

                  ….NZ in 2003 agreed and signed up for the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)…but as of 2014, NZ is one of the very few countries in the world remaining yet to sign New Zealand’s “Ratification, Acceptance (A), Approval (AA), Accession (a), Succession (d)” …of the UNCAC

                  Smirk :…..and ironic that Judith Collins as Minister of Justice in 2013 was responsible for seeing through NZ’s ratification of the United Nations Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC)

                  ….( is this the reason for the most recent delay in ratifying the UNCAC?)

                  Conclusion: so Penny’s arguments stand… “Wouldn’t you think New Zealand would have ratified UNCAC years ago???”

                  Go Penny….keep kicking arse on corruption in New Zealand!

                  • higherstandard …
                    7 November 2014 at 4:24 pm

                    As per the letter from the then MoJ – it has long been NZs policy to not ratify a binding treaty prior to making sure NZ Law is compliant with the treaty obligations – I suspect along with many of the other countries who have not ratified it this takes some time and in no way makes us non compliant with the treaty.

                    Interesting to note the other countries in the same boat include Germany and Japan.

                    • Chooky …
                      7 November 2014 at 7:49 pm

                      @ higher standard …re “I suspect along with many of the other countries who have not ratified it this takes some time ….”

                      NZ is one of 6 countries that have not ratified

                      ( namely: Barbados, Bhutan, Germany, Japan, NZ, Syria Arab Republic)

                      176 countries have ratified

                      This makes NZ in a very small minority of countries which have not ratified ….NZ is hardly one of MANY to not ratify!

  14. joe90 14
    6 November 2014 at 3:28 pm

    Yea!.
    /

    Inhofe refuted climate change science in 2012 by citing the Bible. “[T]he Genesis 8:22 that I use in there is that ‘as long as the earth remains there will be seed time and harvest, cold and heat, winter and summer, day and night.’ My point is, God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.”For anyone still uncertain about where he stands, Inhofe reiterated his position with his 2012 book, The Greatest Hoax: How the Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future.

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120134/climate-change-denier-james-inhofe-lead-environment-committee

  15. The Pink Postman 15
    6 November 2014 at 3:28 pm

    I was at the Labour Party leaders debate in Hamilton last night.
    There was a very good turnout of members and the candidates all spoke very.
    Im sure most in the audience went home thinking that the candidates all were potential leaders / Each one spoke well and I would think most of the members who were present will have to think hard to make a decision .
    The meeting was well run and orderly , so what the hell was Patrick Gower on about when he said on 3 news ) That the meeting wqs a disaster., did he really attend the same meeting as I did. Why did he insult the people of Hamilton by making derogatory remarks regarding having the meeting in Hamilton. What a blow hard , is
    he another journalist being paid to support the Nats ,like Henry and Hoskings and a few more who we all know are hard core Tories,

  16. Aerobubble 16
    6 November 2014 at 3:31 pm

    Brownlee, sitting in for PM, sides with big electricity over solar. Saying that private regulations by electricity companies is okay by him, it’s a free market.

  18. Aerobubble 18
    6 November 2014 at 4:22 pm

    Hager is not a journalist says court! What? You mean all a author needs to do is write an article to protect their sources. And in the entire history of western democracy no government has not tried to silence authors before, threaten them to give up sources.
    Please, the court was obviously having a bad day. This is of course a different matter to not having editorial oversight, to become a journalist, aka Slater.

  19. minarch 19
    6 November 2014 at 5:20 pm

    Here are your “foreign fighters” joining ISIS

    Khaled Sharrouf’s tweeted picture of himself, and his young son, triumphantly holding the severed heads of people executed by Islamic State militants shocked Australia and the world. He presented himself as a religious warrior fighting for an Islamic caliphate in the Middle East.

    But those close to him in Australia knew another man – a person with a history of drug taking, mental illness and criminal violence, who very likely fled Australia because he feared criminal associates who wanted him dead

    http://leaksource.info/2014/11/03/gangster-jihad-the-story-of-khaled-sharrouf/

  20. chris73 20
    6 November 2014 at 5:30 pm

    For those who still can’t get why National was re-elected heres some reasons:

    The latest jobs and wages data from Stats NZ finds:

    Employment up 72,000 in last year, being 66,000 full-time and 6,000 part-time

    Unemployment down 14,000 in last year

    Labour force up by 57,000

    Unemployment rate down to 5.4%, from 6.1% a year ago

    NZ 9th lowest unemployment rate in OECD of 34 countries.

    Unemployment rate now 0.7% lower than Australia and US, 0.9% lower than UK and 1.5% lower than Canada

    The NEET (Not in employment, education or training) rate for under 20s down to 7.2% from 8.1% a year ago

    Average weekly earnings up (over year) 1.8%, being 2.2% in private sector and 1.4% in public sector

    Average hourly earnings up 2.4%, being 3.0% in private sector and 1.0% in public sector

    Male hourly earnings up 2.0% and female hourly earnings up 2.7%

    Could things be better, well of course they could but the voters of NZ realise things can’t change quickly but they see that NZ is going on the right direction and know that National is the reason why

    • Colonial Rawshark 20.1
      6 November 2014 at 5:53 pm

      The main reason that National won, and it was by only 100,000 votes, is that Labour and Greens didn’t form a united coalition which looked like it got how to win an MMP election.

      • BM 20.1.1
        6 November 2014 at 5:57 pm

        Greens are voter poison.
        Which is why they don’t get any higher than 10%.

        Elections are won appealing to the middle, not the the nut bars out there on the fringe, labor would have been sub 20 if they aligned themselves fully with the greens.

        • chris73 20.1.1.1
          6 November 2014 at 6:09 pm

          + 100 BM

        • Colonial Rawshark 20.1.1.2
          6 November 2014 at 6:10 pm

          The whole “appealing to the middle” meme is worn out and false. What the Right is most afraid of, is a political movement which appeals to the hundreds of thousands of left wing voters who stayed at home.

          • BM 20.1.1.2.1
            6 November 2014 at 6:16 pm

            LOL, that lefty pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

            Helpful hint:
            If you want to win the game, focus on the people actually playing the game.

          • chris73 20.1.1.2.2
            6 November 2014 at 6:16 pm

            The delusion of left is that the so-called missing million are all disillusioned left-wing voters just waiting for someone left-wing enough to engage with them to get them to vote

            Keep dreaming the dream

        • Tracey 20.1.1.3
          6 November 2014 at 6:53 pm

          but then you think keith locke wasnt spied on for decades…

        • swordfish 20.1.1.4
          6 November 2014 at 7:57 pm

          “Greens are voter poison. Which is why they don’t get any higher than 10%”.

          Except in both 2011 and 2014, when they did.

      • chris73 20.1.2
        6 November 2014 at 6:08 pm

        Labour claimed its ready to lead and that its united behinds it leader (whichever leader that is) and both claims were found to be false

        Until Labour can prove to the electorate they are a united team they won’t get back into power

        The Greens have come to the realization that their role is to be in opposition not power, its the role that suits them best as they can spout out all the nonsense they like without having to put it into practice

        • Colonial Rawshark 20.1.2.1
          6 November 2014 at 6:11 pm

          Many vital physical resources will be critically depleted in the next 10-20 years. The Greens have some decent ideas, but overall they still buy into the MOAR GROAF paradigm. They don’t know what they stand for at the moment, and neither does the electorate.

          • chris73 20.1.2.1.1
            6 November 2014 at 6:21 pm

            If they focused more on environmental issues and stopped being Labours little bitc… I mean lackey they’d probably find themselves in government with a little bit of power instead of being outside with no power

            • karol 20.1.2.1.1.1
              6 November 2014 at 7:10 pm

              What is the evidence the Greens are subservient to Labour?

              You really don’t understand the Greens policies and values. How is it possible to do anything significant with the environment, while not also following left/social democrat social and economic policies?

              • chris73 …
                6 November 2014 at 7:15 pm

                Heres what I know, the Greens put out to Labour and spurned National so Labour knows it doesn’t have to work to keep the Greens

                NZfirst and UnitedFuture played hard to get so Labour had to work to get them

                NZfirst and UnitedFuture were in government under Labour and the Greens…well I’m sure you get the picture

                • karol …
                  7 November 2014 at 11:34 am

                  From where I’m sitting Labour would need the Greens to form a government. Cuts both ways.

                  And ACT?

            • weka 20.1.2.1.1.2
              6 November 2014 at 9:03 pm

              “If they focused more on environmental issues and stopped being Labours little bitc… I mean lackey they’d probably find themselves in government with a little bit of power instead of being outside with no power”

              oh fuck right off. I bet you were one of the ones back in the day that gave them shit for only being focussed on the environment (wrong then, wrong now).

              The Greens want change not power. They’re getting change despite not being in govt. Pay attention.

              • chris73 …
                6 November 2014 at 11:36 pm

                Hows that change working out for Metirea?

                  • RedLogixFormes …
                    7 November 2014 at 12:02 am

                    I dunno – maybe one of his scripts is on loop or something. This ’73 model is a bit prone to it.

                    • Chooky …
                      7 November 2014 at 4:12 pm

                      lol

                      …and actually the right wing covert the Green brand ….and a coalition with the Green Party (listen to Hooton, he is fixated on it)…because the Greens are the Party of the future and will leach the Nacts of their more ethical voters

                      …the Greens are perceived by the right wing and the corporates as both a threat (outside their camp) and a prize if in their camp in coalition ( where the Green brand will be neutralised and suffer annihilation by contradiction)

                      …expect a lot more attacks on the Greens as the corporates and money men try to get their way with the environment eg fracking and water

      • Chooky 20.1.3
        6 November 2014 at 8:49 pm

        +100 CR…Left did not work together cooperatively and strategically

        ….and there were other reasons as well…eg Dirty Politics PR…biased msm etc

    • karol 20.2
      6 November 2014 at 7:08 pm

      The inequality and poverty problem, is not something that will necessarily be picked up by looking at average earnings of people in the workforce – which is what that survey does.

      If the people earning the most have significant rises, while those on lowest incomes stagnate or go backwards, it would still show the average earnings rising.

      The problem is seen when the top and bottom deciles are compared.

      The unemployment stats are also questionable, given the way the government is forcing people off unemployment benefits.

      And that survey doesn’t pick up the number or people under-employed. nor does it compare low earnings with cost of accommodation, necessary spending,

      i wonder what impact the impending change in reporting the stats will have?transport, etc.

      .

  21. greywarshark 21
    6 November 2014 at 7:05 pm

    I suppose someone else has noted this. I heard on radionz that the CEO of Auckland’s Council of something, the main one or some other entity is going to be getting less salary. The present one was getting over $800,000 p.a. and I think that there is a new one, and he/she will be starting on only about half a mil.

    I wonder if it would be better to go back to sovereign and serfs from an earnings point of view. There is quite a cohort of high earners and against such a strong group with large resources, what can the people do? One king is easier to remove, and probably not as expensive to run. If they are expensive, they build fabulous palaces that are extremely useful later as drawcards for tourism. The present greedies build things called art such as unusual fences on their estate.

  22. Murray Rawshark 22
    6 November 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Can we stop feeding the underbridge dwellers, please? They contribute nothing.

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