I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
It has been a problem ever since central banks in America, Japan and Europe began Quantitative Easing (QE) or money printing over a decade ago during the Global Financial Crisis: the new money didn't circulate and generate much new investment or spending or economic growth. It was just parked in bank accounts or piles of actual cash, or other unproductive stores of value such as gold, art, property and yachts.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
The banks have been much more active in the housing market, including $5.2b in July to existing home owners and rental property investors, up 24 percent from June and back above its pre-lockdown levels in March.
That has helped perk up housing activity and lifted house values in areas with housing shortages and that are less reliant on overseas tourists, students and investors. Values in places such as Rotorua, Wellington, Whanganui and Palmerston North are up by double digit amounts from a year ago
The Reserve Bank is beginning to agitate with the banks about the lack of lending to businesses and may yet try to force them to direct lending to businesses.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
Better manufacturing
Extraction and processing of our resources
Better schooling up to and including doctorate level
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
Communities earmarked for greater density were given $10,000 each to develop their plans. That done, they got further funding for the next stage – but only if they could prove they had reached out to every part of the community and hadn’t let the usual suspects dominate.
Officials supported these “citizen planners” with neighbourhood design toolkits and software that mapped demographics, land use and transport flows. The community plans were then tested at “alternatives fairs”, sent to residents for approval, reviewed by officials, and subjected to neighbourhood hearings. Displaying remarkable engagement, some 20,000-30,000 residents took part in a city of 560,000.
After years of conflict, the process brought together politicians, neighbourhood leaders, and even local groups that had formerly been at loggerheads. Best of all, it delivered densification: added together, the neighbourhood plans provided all the housing the council had sought.
Along the way, a pro-development, anti-Nimby constituency was born. Seattle today remains – for various reasons – one of the few American cities to be densifying effectively. Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.” All this might seem counterintuitive, given Seattle’s previous animus towards densification. Two factors made the difference: control and environment.
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
Citizen planning hadn’t been quick or cheap but, as Sirianni puts it: “The city council’s investment of money and time … had clearly paid off.”
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
Amnesty International executive director Meg de Ronde said she was appalled by the report's findings.
"What this report paints is the possibility of a tinderbox situation," she said. "If force is not being used as a last resort, and the culture is being called punitive, this could have real flow-on effects for interactions between prison guards and people who are locked up."
Alan Whitley, president of CANZ, the union representing corrections officers, said the use of force was increasing because assaults on corrections officers were increasing.
As a result of an assault there is an action and the action is generally trying to shut the prisoner down. It can be done in a number of ways. It can be hands on, trying to get them to calm down, bringing them down to the floor. It could also be deploying and using pepper spray."
The review also says the medical needs of prisoners are not being met because of poor leadership and health staffing levels being at about half what is needed.
"ARWCF has a large demand for health services but doesn't seem to have the health staff to match or custodial staff to get prisoners to and from health appointments," the review says.
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
Staff at the prison's health unit complained to the reviewer that rather than respond to requests for medical assistance, guards were telling inmates to fill out complaint forms.
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
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However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
Throw them in jail? How long?
Fine them? How much?
Both?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
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I think the ban is a total and unnecessary overreaction
These yachts are their homes and insurers don't cover battered yachts
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
Close the border, ditch the Auckland CBD hotels and use the recently refurbished Mangere refugee resettlement centre – it's not like that is being used
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
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Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
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"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
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RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
The causes of the French Revolution are complex and are still debated among historians. The American Revolution helped set the stage for the events of the French Revolution, having shown France that a rebellion based on Enlightenment principles, including natural rights and equality for all citizens, against an authoritarian regime could succeed.
"Thousands of men and even many women gained firsthand experience in the political arena: they talked, read, and listened in new ways; they voted; they joined new organisations; and they marched for their political goals. Revolution became a tradition, and republicanism an enduring option."
"Some historians argue that the French people underwent a fundamental transformation in self-identity, evidenced by the elimination of privileges and their replacement by rights as well as the growing decline in social deference that highlighted the principle of equality throughout the Revolution. The Revolution represented the most significant and dramatic challenge to political absolutism up to that point in history and spread democratic ideals throughout Europe and ultimately the world. Throughout the 19th century, the revolution was heavily analysed by economists and political scientists, who saw the class nature of the revolution as a fundamental aspect in understanding human social evolution itself. This, combined with the egalitarian values introduced by the revolution, gave rise to a classless and co-operative model for society called "socialism" which profoundly influenced future revolutions in France and around the world."
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
"Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'".
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
"My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first."
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
…
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
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How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
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What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
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Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
By Eleisha Foon, RNZ Pacific senior journalist A Pacific regionalism academic has called out New Zealand’s Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters for withholding information from the public on AUKUS and says the security deal “raises serious questions for the Pacific region”. Auckland University of Technology academic Dr Marco de Jong ...
How worried should we be about the cloud? This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. I currently have a few thousand unread emails languishing in my inbox, mostly old marketing newsletters and piles of unread science journal press releases. I have a similar number ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nuurrianti Jalli, Assistant Professor of Communication Studies College of Arts and Sciences Department of Languages, Literature, and Communication Studies, Northern State University Amid the COVID-19 pandemic, Southeast Asian governments not only have to deal with the virus but also with the false ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Murakami Wood, Professor of Critical Surveillance and Securities Studies, L’Université d’Ottawa/University of Ottawa The skyline of Riyadh, the capital and largest city of the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia.(Shutterstock) There is a long history of planned city building by both governments ...
The LIVE Recording of A View from Afar podcast will begin today at 12:45pm May 6, 2024 (NZST) which is Sunday evening, 8:30pm (USEST). In an analytical essay titled ‘A moment of friction’ political scientist Dr Paul Buchanan wrote how we are living within a decisive moment of ...
The Boil Up’s Lucinda Bennett considers the oyster – from freshness to pearls to the joy of shucking your own. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. In Carmen Maria Machado’s short story ‘Eight Bites’, a woman begins her last supper before bariatric surgery with “a cavalcade ...
Asia Pacific Report A group of 65 Auckland University academics have written an open letter to vice-chancellor Dawn Freshwater criticising the institution’s stance over students protesting in solidarity with Palestine. They have called on her administration to “support” the students who were denied permission to establish an “overnight encampment” by ...
The Student Volunteer Army is on the march, generating approximately 1.6 million hours of volunteering from roughly 35,000 secondary school students in just five years. For Rebekah Brown, the pathway to volunteering started with her singing coach. With a passion for the arts, the suggestion to volunteer at Acting Antics, ...
Keeping up with online communication can be exhausting, so Fran Barclay enlisted the help of Meta’s new ‘intelligent assistant’ to respond to all her messages. Could her mates tell the difference? For centuries, technology has ruled the ways in which we communicate. From the dawn of written language, to the ...
Jamie Arbuckle, a councillor who has become an member of parliament, says he has settled into having two roles so comfortably he's going to keep both pay cheques. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luis Gómez Romero, Senior Lecturer in Human Rights, Constitutional Law and Legal Theory, University of Wollongong Fifty years ago, Australian feminist Anne Summers denounced “the ideology of sexism” governing over so many women’s lives. Unfortunately, sexism is as lethal today as it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jose Antonio Lara-Hernandez, Senior Researcher in Architecture, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images The COVID-19 pandemic and the hybrid work patterns it fostered have changed the way we think about office space, and central business districts in general. While fears ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dale Boccabella, Associate Professor of Taxation Law, UNSW Sydney There’s a good reason your local volunteer-run netball club doesn’t pay tax. In Australia, various nonprofit organisations are exempt from paying income tax, including those that do charitable work, such as churches. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marina Deller, Casual Academic, Creative Writing and English Literature, Flinders University NetflixComedy is opening up spaces for silences to be broken and trauma stories to be told. In 2018, Hannah Gadsby started a revolution with Nanette, asking audiences to rethink ...
The workplace can be a minefield of bad comms and passive aggression. Kinksters can help you navigate it. A friend and colleague recently gave me a compliment I loved. They told me I’d always been good at emotional communication and making people feel comfortable. “But I feel like it’s really ...
Even if some students are now just texting on their laptops. Stewart Sowman-Lund writes in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Councils from Horowhenua, Kāpiti, Wairarapa, the Hutt Valley, Porirua and Wellington City will meet this Friday to work together on a plan for a Greater Wellington region water deal. ...
Renowned musician, advocate, and proud born and raised daughter of Tauranga, Ria Hall, is announcing her candidacy for Mayor of Tauranga and Pāpāmoa Ward for the upcoming election on July 20th. ...
The new Aotearoa histories curriculum is rich with potential. There’s still work to be done, but the education minister’s criticisms about ‘balance’ miss the mark, argues primary school teacher Jessie Moss. In 2015, Ōtorohanga College students presented to parliament a petition signed by more than 10,000 people calling for a ...
For too long our so-called national bird has maintained its stranglehold on the economy of regional New Zealand. Thanks to the fast track legislation, we will have our revenge. Theories abound on what ails New Zealand’s economy. National leader Chris Luxon has posited that we’re negative, wet, whiny, and inward-looking; ...
Late one afternoon in March 1860 a man in a thin green velveteen jacket and a wide-awake hat arrived on foot at a sheep station named Glenmark, about 65 kilometres north of Christchurch. The man was in his mid-fifties but he looked older. Several people who met him that day ...
If building one of Auckland’s possible waterfront stadiums was funded privately, it would need to hold a sold-out Ed Sherran concert every weekday for 25 years. That’s Rob Hamlin’s finding – he’s a senior marketing lecturer at the University of Otago. “It’s not going to happen; forget about it,” he ...
Comment: The debate over the future relationship between news and social media is bringing us closer to a long-overdue reckoning. Social media isn’t trying to kill journalism, because social media has never really cared about journalism. Social media is resolutely in the attention business. News propels some attention — perhaps ...
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For the past 12 years, Georgia-Rose Brown has balanced on the brink of making an Olympic Games – but always landed gracefully on the wrong side. Reaching the Olympics is a dream the gymnast has harboured since she was a six-year-old; a dream that would dwindle every four years, yet ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra A new Commonwealth Prac Payment will provide students with $319.50 a week when they are on clinical and professional placements. The payment will be means tested and start from July 1 next year, which ...
Asia Pacific Report About 500 people honoured Palestinian journalists in the heart of the New Zealand city of Auckland today for their brave coverage of Israel’s War on Gaza, now in its seventh month with almost 35,000 people killed, mostly women and children. Marking the annual May 3 World Press ...
The Government Communications Security Bureau denies hosting a foreign spying capability flagged by the watchdog, differentiating it from the system recently criticised. ...
RNZ News A group of academic staff at New Zealand’s largest university have expressed concern at the administration’s move to block a protest encampment that was planned to take place on campus calling for support for the rights of Palestinians. This week, the University of Auckland warned that while it ...
Genterwocky After a hard days marching, Sir Doocey calls in at the Village Tavern For a pint of ale and a pork pie. The grim villagers stare at him. “Do not be travelling on the forest road,” warns a crusty old beak. “And why is that, antique peasant?” Grins Sir ...
Political conferences after a party returns to power are usually a chance for some healthy, even unhealthy backslapping. Yet National Party president Sylvia Wood’s address to its mainland representatives on Saturday hardly contained the unalloyed delight that one might have expected following National’s escape from the wilderness of opposition. Yes, ...
Comment: Almost half the world is voting in national elections this year and artificial intelligence is the elephant in the room. There are genuine fears AI-generated or AI-edited deepfakes will potentially manipulate election outcomes not just in the US and UK, but critically in countries such as India. For that ...
Ahead of the reality franchise’s return to New Zealand, allow us to introduce the eight brides and grooms. Chuck on a veil and tie back your man bun, because it’s time to say “I do” to a new season of Married at First Sight NZ. The reality TV “social experiment” ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Norton, Professor in the Practice of Higher Education Policy, Australian National University Every year on June 1, student debt in Australia is indexed to inflation. In 2023, high inflation pushed the indexation rate to 7.1%, the highest since 1990. This ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Changes in the May 14 budget will cut the student debt of more than three million people, wiping more than $3 billion from what people owe. The government will cap the HELP indexation rate ...
Asia Pacific Report The prosecutor’s office at the International Criminal Court (ICC) has appealed for an end to what it calls intimidation of its staff, saying such threats could constitute an offence against the “administration of justice” by the world’s permanent war crimes court. The Hague-based office of ICC Prosecutor ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk A women’s union in New Caledonia has staged a sit-in protest this week to support senior Kanak indigenous journalist Thérèse Waia, who works for public broadcaster Nouvelle-Calédonie la Première, after a smear attack by critics. The peaceful demonstration was held on ...
New Zealand Food Safety is monitoring overseas recalls of Indian packaged spice products manufactured by MDH and Everest due to concerns over a cancer-causing pesticide. ...
By Stephen Wright and Stefan Armbruster of BenarNews Fiji’s ranking in a global press freedom index has jumped into the top tier of countries with free or mostly free media after its government last year repealed a draconian law that threatened journalists with prison for doing their jobs. Fiji’s improvement ...
We might be in Invercargill but all anyone can talk about is Gore. Specifically, Salford Street. That’s where three-year-old Lachlan Jones lived, south of the centre of town, between the A&P Showgrounds and the Mataura River. Roughly 1.2 km away from the single level home he lived in with his ...
MONDAY I lined up the latest round of civil servants from city hall against the wall, and signalled for the firing squad to drop their rifles. I stepped up onto a wooden crate to look at the office workers in the eye. But that didn’t feel right, so I found ...
Keen hiker and second-year MSc student Liam Hewson wears two hats when he’s in the great outdoors. “The scientist in me appreciates nature and goes, ‘Oh, there’s that thing and there’s another thing,’ but then the tramper and the outdoorsy person in me thinks, ‘Cool bush.’” Born and bred in ...
After a long and illustrious career as a goal kicker, Dan Carter’s favourite way to unwind is… kicking goals. Why can’t he get enough of it? And what it’s like to watch him do it for an hour straight? A semicircle of people wielding cameras and phones has formed in ...
Dame Susan Devoy takes us through her life in television, including late night ER debriefs, her proudest CTI moment and the show she watches in secret. Quite aside from her four world champion squash titles, Dame Susan Devoy will likely go down in history as one of the best Celebrity ...
Hera Lindsay Bird reveals the best places in Ōtepoti to score more for your apocalypse-prep book hoard.Sometimes I get the feeling I’ve been killed in a car crash, and this second half of my life is just the brain unspooling itself, like one of those episodes of a hospital ...
ThreeNow’s new murder mystery series takes us on a dark, damp journey into the Australian wilderness.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. High Country is ThreeNow’s new Australian eight-part crime drama, set in a remote part of the Victorian highlands. It tells ...
Introducing a new way to read The Spinoff every weekend. After nearly 10 years of being an online magazine, we’re finally embracing the weekend liftout. Despite our best efforts to convince you otherwise, writers and editors at The Spinoff don’t work weekend. It is through the sheer power of technology ...
Tip one: let yourself be nurtured by this big old man. Tip two: don’t ask him to adopt you. So, you’ve arrived at your first session with a new therapist. He tells you to make yourself comfortable and you opt for the tweed armchair, hoping it makes you look like ...
I didn’t know books could open you back up; that there were books that stayed with you, where reading was like a chemical event. I knew nothing.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.Not too long ago, I was listening to the American ...
Former Olympic swimmer James Magnussen has already started training for the Enhanced games, though says he won’t start taking performance enhancing substances until about nine months out from the competition. The Australian world champion was the first athlete to be announced by Enhanced, but he says the organisation has had ...
Everyone thinks he’s dead. Every day they expect his body to be washed up along the coast. Most likely up Karitane way, the way the tide’s running. But nobody’ll be too surprised if his body’s never found. Even in death he wouldn’t have wished for such attention. He would have ...
Council members voted 21 to 4 in favour of Ahluwalia returning to the Laucala campus following a much-awaited meeting in Vanuatu this week. It comes as USP and its two unions — the Association of the University of the South Pacific Staff (AUSPS) and the Administration and Support Staff Union ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicola Henry, Professor & Australian Research Council Future Fellow, Social and Global Studies Centre, RMIT University Shutterstock Following an emergency meeting of the National Cabinet this week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has announced a raft of measures to tackle the problem ...
Analysis - A poll showing the opposition is more popular than the government raises questions, politicians go through their 'trial by pay rise' and a Green MP loses her cool in the debating chamber. ...
The entire stretch of Tokomaru Bay on the East Coast will be subject to a joint customary marine title for two hapū, and extending up to four miles out to sea. A High Court judge has found the two groups, who during the case settled a dispute over boundaries for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Hall, Lecturer, Media & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University A longstanding feud between TikTok and Universal Music Group seems to have finally reached an end, with both parties signing a deal that will see Universal-backed music returned to the social media ...
NZ "First" still wanting to help the Fishing Industry screw our ever diminishing Marine species…
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/rural/425397/new-zealand-first-cautious-about-plan-to-install-hundreds-more-cameras-on-fishing-boats
Shane …Jones. Fark I hope he's kicked to touch. Cmon Willow Jean : ) !!
More reason's not to vote NZFirst – if you really needed any more that is.
I heard Paul Goldsmith struggling (not manfully) on Morning Report, trying to differentiate Nat economic policy from the govt's. We need more private investment in businesses, seemed to be the gist.
He didn't say he's got a magic wand which he would wave if National defeats Labour, to make that happen. Prudent. Investors are sitting on their money. Too scared to invest.
Here, it's going into real estate, to create another housing boom. Oh what fun!
Asking delinquent capitalists nicely to help businesses hasn't worked. Will the RB get tough? Orr may not be sufficiently macho…
Has little to do with being macho…Orr has two jobs, ensure the banks dont fall over and the dollar dosnt tank…..and thats one hell of a tightrope to walk.
With no good options more real estate inflation is the least of evils…. hes succeeding to date but for how much longer?
There are good options though, the government just aren't taking them because it would destroy capitalism.
Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?
From what I can see both are acting pretty short term. They seem to be in a race of how much money they can spend. And in fact there doesn't seem to be very much difference of how they will spend the money. Basically a road or two here or there. Is that what our choices have been reduced to?
We are just over 5 weeks to the election. I would certainly expect to see the two major parties set out their plans (as opposed to shopping lists) in the next two weeks.
While it is obvious how I will vote, we are all effected by whoever wins. Given that there are only two parties who can basically be the government, they both have a democratic responsibility to tell us their plan. So far neither party has really done that.
Interesting. so no matter how rotten your team have shown themselves to be you will still support them.
Of course he will. Wayne shows all the hallmarks of being an Authoritarian Follower.
Usually parties relate their 3 year plan based on Treasury's latest update/forecast. And any debt has a cost to be accounted for.
But what if money is printed and there is hardly any debt cost?
The economic impact of the pandemic is not yet known – which is why the parties in government have a $14B contingency reserve and the so called stongest oppostion in our history has already spent it.
Oh common Wayne we know nationals plan. Cuts and privatization by stealth/neglect.
If in 2008 and I had hired the national government to run my farm for me they would have sold a couple of my best paddocks ,stopped putting fertilizer on and doing fence maintenance ,built a shiny new shed and few new tracks so things looked good from the road.
Of course they'll tell us they a good economic managers but really they are just middle management elevated above their level .
"Do either of two major parties have a credible economic plan?"
Not one they are brave enough to present to the voting public….and with that absence its credibility cannot be judged.
Or worse, the only plan is the continuation of the growth via migration model.
They are both too gutless or ignorant to offer plans to the electorate. Makes room for radicals though. Personally I hate change so that prospect scares the shit out of me, what’s left of it.
And it never has.
The regulations making sure that capitalists do is actually good for society is what the capitalists mostly complain about when they talk about red tape.
The government could do it directly and even do it at 0% interest but that would remove capitalists ability to bludge off of the work of others.
The government could even do it for mortgages.
The Government could, but what would the reaction be if they did it in one fell swoop?
There needs to be a pathway that unwinds the asset bubbles and redistributes the resources that dosnt create complete mayhem….and addresses CC.
NZ is perfectly placed to be the first to decarbonise its economy and reap the benefit of the knowledge/ processes and industries gained from doing so…and we can provide guaranteed employment in the process.
The capitalists will whinge, of course, but who cares? Its just the risk that they've been taking and speaking loudly about for the last few centuries calling due.
What's the consequences if we don't?
More poverty? More climate change? More destruction of our environment?
That pathway already exists – the government starts making 0% interest loans and pushes R&D into what we need:
We know that capitalism is just going to make a few people richer while leaving the country vulnerable.
They will do more than whinge..you may relish the resulting capital flight and import implications but I very much doubt you will have much supportive company.
Well, apparently, the only place that they can spend NZ money is in NZ.
Although, that does raise the question as to why the NZ$ is one of the most traded in the world.
And, with the government giving businesses and private entrepreneurs 0% interest loans, the capital flight is meaningless.
We may see the NZ$ decrease in exchange value but that's just going raise demand for our products. And a raise in demand for our products will increase employment.
Of course, we don't have a lot of products to export due to our focus upon agriculture and failing to develop our manufacturing capability.
The wealthy want sure bets – but the world has changed and those opportunities are few. Roger Douglas gave them sure bets when he stripped the New Zealand people of their businesses and handed them over to those sitting on the round table. After that there was property and taking the leased land down south and selling it for massive profits, putting money into South Canterbury finance in the four weeks before the government announced the bailout WITH interest (to pinch a quote from Turk182 "who knew?" and putting dairy on non-dairy land.
The next phase was going back to the poorhouse/charity model of the past which we are seeing now – private sector providing social services, housing for homeless people (charging summer motel rates to the government all year round and not content with that rorting through substandard housing) and so on.
That's about it DoS, 100%. Now what? Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? Could it be that nobody cares about the public vehicle providing service for the citizens until a wheel actually falls off, or it goes off a bank killing and injuring all but with cause unknown until a Royal Commission 8 years later confirms what we knew from the start. A very effective way of not doing bloody anything until the crisis is past, then people are dead, and the circumstances have changed, so no probs.
"Where do brilliant minds with sufficient expertise and maturity to craft clever policies that fit the problems like a hand in a glove, go to for action? "
They remember others in Aoatearoa who have led the people from conflict to peace.
https://ojs.aut.ac.nz/te-kaharoa/index.php/tekaharoa/article/view/96/90
Conflict/peace – it is a big change to go from one to another. So peace is established, then what – what is the clear path ahead. If you know it is time to plant out the kumara, you have the land, the tools, the seed then all can work together for the common good.
What can we do that follows this path. Every group eventually develops a turncoat that will get advantage and then use it to advance themselves against the group. Douglas and his ilk did that and now we have competing groups interrupting our national conversation.
Can we adjust the way we do things. It won't be solved by Maori citing grievance at every turn. It could be helped by a hapu deciding on a project that would have common good that would teach skills to their young people, funded through a social development grant.
What about young white men who aren't sure they want to be pakeha? Could they learn something worthwhile, build something for the common good, and enjoy doing so? That would be a good change because their grievance machine is too often heard.
Max Rashbrooke is the editor of Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, published in 2013. Writing in the Guardian, he illuminates how practical consensus politics can solve endemic social problems via intelligent design:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/want-to-build-high-rise-homes-for-74000-more-people-in-wellington-build-consensus-first/ar-BB18Kq2A
This is a superb example of paradigm shifting. Mass consciousness transformed via community-driven social engineering. Prevalent ideology defeated. Densification of cities can work if you democratise decision-making at the grass roots level. Do Wellingtonians have what it takes? Watch this space!
[link added – weka]
Thanks Weka. Must've had a senior moment. 😳
DF Quote from Back to the Future – "You are my density". With you at the helm we might get the destiny that is possible if we get OAIG.
I've said for years that good democracy takes time. I even said it before I started commenting here. This is the proof.
But most people still seem to prefer the quick, dirty and dictatorial method of government that we have where the people in power dictate to the masses and excuse it with but we had a choice when we voted. No, we really didn't have a choice. Having a choice means being involved in the planning and we simply don't get that.
Sick of these 'plan b/just a flu' folk getting airtime without being taken to task when it's obviously politically motivated bs.
Msm are part of the problem allowing thorley and others a soapbox. If you bring them on, fine, as long as you kick out their box and bring them down to earth.
@tc.
"Journalists" are actively seeking these people out.
Like the desperate hunt Garner's programe conducted to find the one "economic expert" in Australasia prepared to be critical of New Zealands Covid stimulus. An Australian "economic journalist" no less.
Taking "Journalists" interviewing them selves, their typewriters and each other to a new low.
'Journalists' have been out for a few months trying to find someone who broke a fingernail while in quarantine to make a story to win a Pulitzer journalism prize.
Finding an Australian 'economic journalist' an 'expert' to boot is manna. Or Thornley.
Did you see the moaning sheila they found yesterday going on about getting promotional materials from the hotel she was quarantined in.
Fuck you would think she had been forced to sleep in the broom closet with a bucket to piss in .
Or worse, a bucket to sleep in!
John Clarke come back, you are missed terribly.
Both of 'em.
The NZ comedian as Fred Dagg (et al), and later as the Australian actor/comedian, John Clarke who wont ever perform on the stage of life as we know it again, and
Dr John Cooper Clark, another realistic comedian and social scientist who last toured in New Zealand, I believe, in 2018.
Winston Peters interview with Jack Tane on Q&A was interesting, he asked Peters some unexepected curly questions that Peters really did not handle well.
Jack spoke of "Trust" around the NZF parties recent statements and the SFOs inquiry into NZF.
It was a train wreck interview, Peters was so combative, refused to answer the questions and continually overtalked the interviewer, kept referring to Tane that his questions wouldn't stand up in a court of law.
It was a television interview, and Peters really did show his true colors, a lot of people will be wondering if NZF can climb back into contention or just disappear into oblivion.
so nothing really has changed there then? NZ Prisons in NZ, no change between the red or blue team, they all don’t care.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12362662
hmm, maybe staffing the prisons correctly and hiring some nurses and doctors would be a good plan, but that would cost money, right? Right? But here fill out a complaint form. (ffs, its funny where it not so sad)
but then hey, they are just prisoners and being locked up for a drug charge or something similar warrants this behaviour. Well maybe next year or so kinder and gentler is arriving in our prisons too……..in the form of a new complaint box, this one with a red ribbon.
@ Redlogix.
Freedom of speech is still a core principle as far as I'm concerned. Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post. I was still going to moderate anyone who tried to take it into verbiose irrelevancy
It was a "gun totin Texan",who insisted I keep my job after my involvement in NZ politics was looked at somewhat askance by some in management. I doubt if he agreed with me, but he supported my right to a political view. We are still friends btw.
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
On the whole I believe idiots should be allowed to out themselves. But what do you do about the loons who are trying to undermine the countries Covid responce, because getting more votes is more important to them, than peoples lives? To take just one example.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
However it is not absolute. calling fire in a crowded theatre, or on an oil rig, would not have been tolerated.
Maybe you missed where I said "Of course speech that is out of bounds does exist,". And the idiots who are yelling that COVID is a scam, are directly equivalent to 'calling fire in a crowded theatre'.
What many people overlook is that intent and context really do matter. Yelling 'fire' on say a boat where is necessary to evacuate and get emergency procedures going is quite different to maliciously yelling the same word in a crowed theatre. The same with lockdowns and mask wearing, normally imposing these things would be draconian and protesting them legitimate, but a pandemic changes the context completely.
And when you throw in an undertone of political agenda the intent becomes illegitimate as well.
Comes down to putting in place a general definition of that out of bounds. I certainly consider lies and misinformation to be out of bounds. Everything said should be backed by facts and research in as far as is possible.
This would put the yelling about covid being a scam out of bounds as well as National's politicking on it. Both are provably wrong when looking at the facts.
Now, what should we do about it?
It's an interesting point that we have very little that could be considered a proportional response to people who are purposefully lying to the public so as to get a public decision in their favour.
Actually, I don't think it is. In both cases yelling 'fire' could cause panic that could lead to death. The yelling itself is part of the problem in that it has emotional overtones that could help induce panic.
hypothetical existential question. would yelling FIRE in a crowded act party meeting be (a) impossible,(b)dangerous(c)taking act at their word, and practising free speech, or(d) none of the above?
Which is why you were given space on my post, despite my feeling you had missed all but one point of a more nuanced post.
Given that you had signaled a strong moderation on the thread I thought to confine myself to the headline issue of the post, and avoid delving into the nuances. That would have definitely stepped over your 'verbiose' line.
That a few people were running the line ‘there are no marxists’, while simultaneously defending marxist thought only added to the confusion I thought.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
The two faces of Duncan Garner
The compassion shown – where is the hospitality for these foreign property owners, is it based on greater class respect for those who own property than for fellow Kiwis? Remember he was once the champion of the keep the borders closed movement.
Also there is no ban, but that's his don't let facts get in the way style of whatever it is he does. He'll later claim credit for ending the ban anyhow
A pertinent detail is that French Polynesia now has a serious coronavirus outbreak.
And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/duncan-garner-we-ve-told-yachties-stranded-in-the-pacific-they-re-not-welcome-how-bloody-miserable-and-mean-spirited-can-we-be.html
The intake that could be catered to at the facility would be quite restrictive – and would involve greater risk of mass outbreaks of infection.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/duncan-garner-new-zealand-must-temporarily-close-its-borders-to-new-arrivals-from-today.html
Earlier.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/06/duncan-garner-it-s-time-to-completely-shut-new-zealand-s-border-returning-kiwis-included.html
Earlier still he was a chamipoon of a bubble with Oz. Oz tourists have money.
French Polynesia took that line – and tried to safely take in tourists. Not successfully – and now there is community spread.
Apologies
But what do you mean by this?
"And three weeks travel does not mean anyone on board is post infection – as infection can occur during the journey (person to person). And allowing multiple boat entry – could allow others to slip in amongst them."
Read the link. Garner claims those on board cannot arrive still infectious because it takes three weeks to travel here.
Brain cells needed for that. Garner seems to have forsaken the use of them.
The two faces of David Seymour
1. There cannot be an election unless we are at level 1.
2. We should let coronavirus spread.
There is no chance of being at Level 1 if there is spread.
We had this beat up a couple of weeks ago
French Polynesia has had about 13 hurricanes in the last 60 years
They have only hit the top two of the 5 island groups making up the territory.
The hurricanes happen when there is a certain variant of the La Nina current – so pretty predictable.
Somebody on here who had sailed said a 21 day open water passage is likely more dangerous than staying put.
Duncan should check a few facts.
Then there are the idiots from here who sailed up to Fiji and who I now assume want to come back.
Yes. Hurricanes are more prevalent in our neck of the Pacific during La Nina weather patterns. When we have an El Nino they tend to form closer to the West Coast of South America sometimes affecting Tahiti and the Cook Islands.
I believe we have a La Nina forming so that will be why some are desperate to get back to NZ. I guess they thought the pandemic would be over by now.
Garner mentioned Tahiti but they are far less likely to be hit by a cyclone this season. Those in the vicinity of Vanuatu, New Caledonia and Fiji/Tonga are more at risk.
To be fair, I can't see why they can't return provided they go into a Covid hotel for two weeks and have the 3 and 12 day tests.
https://niwa.co.nz/climate/information-and-resources/elnino
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
I very much doubt if "Marxists" as you want to define it. As a scare word, even exist in New Zealand.
But that you can be Marxist without a bloody revolution, as I showed also, that like the Portuguese communist party, BLM, and you could even say, the first Labour Government.
I think you have still totally missed the point..
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Acknowledging Marx's contribution to Western thought, is a long way from "defending it" or "being Marxist".
In my view Marx has indeed made a substantial contribution to political thinking everywhere, not just in the West. The outcomes have proven pernicious everywhere communists have gained total power, and the left needs to fully repudiate and distance itself from this catastrophically failed ideology.
It's just plain weird to say "I'm not a Marxist", when at the same time you acknowledge and condone the ongoing influence of his ideology. It's directly equivalent to a right wing extremist saying that "Hitler went a bit too far , but his ideas on why the Aryans are genetically superior have some merit."
PS. I fear we’re dragging this thread OT. We should leave it here I think.
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
"Pernicious lines of thought that have caused mass deaths".
Well that includes Christianity, How many in the Crusades, alone, never mind the dark ages block on progress, Western US capitalism, which has exceeded Hitler's death toll and is nudging Stalin's, Neo-liberal economics especially in South America. Need I go on?
Or can you even call it "Marxism" and not oppressive regimes trying to use Marx as a justification. If you read Marx it is a bunch of fairly accurate analysis of Capitalist society of his time combined with some rather wishful utopian conclusions. His analysis of capitalism's faults and how oppression works is useful. Just as the Nazis called themselves "National Socialist" most of the regimes that called themselves Communist or Marxist, are anything but.
Just as the US oligarchy is not a Democracy.
The welfare state was formed well before Marx wrote Das Kapital. Plenty of redistributive governments before Marx, and after Marx, had nothing to do with him and owed nothing to him.
In New Zealand in particular the Marxists and other radicals like Holland were quickly sidelined for being pains in the ass. Particularly when they got close to being in government.
New Zealand's own formation of the welfare state began without Marxist influence. Reforms included the Old Age Pensions Act of 1989 under Seddon, the state subsidised workers housing from 1905, pensions granted to widows in 1911 and to the blind in 1924, and of course a small family allowance in 1926 – all are more outreaches of the modern European state, which had been developing these well before Marx got cracking. You can check that lot out in "A Civilised Community: A History of Social Welfare In New Zealand", by Margaret McLure.
Christianity's challenges to the late Roman state enabled a much greater expansion of state benefits, once Christianity took its state instruments over. There's plenty written on the evolution of the modern redistributive state and the influence of Christianity and Christian institutions such as tax, hospitals, universities, medicine, research, etc. Marx wrote his stuff about 1800 years later to that co-evolution of Christianity and the modern state from the Roman Empire..
Our modern welfare state has evolved to stand in direct opposition to Marxist thought that evolved from WW1, and continues because democracy, welfare, and capitalism have evolved to the arrangements they have now.
And as a complement to this I can add that the Islamic cultures during their peak period also had their own welfare systems, albeit quite different to the ones we are familiar with.
After Friday prayers there was an obligation to stand on the steps of the mosque and distribute alms to the poor. It was very much a face to face, localised form of redistribution, and in the context of the era it was particularly effective. The whole notion of that the poor and vulnerable should be sheltered and protected arose in various religious faiths long before Marx.
The entire marxist debacle has been a terrible dead end for the socialist left; it's diagnosis is neither especially original and it's revolutionary framework desperately prone to catastrophe. There were so many alternative ways the left could have approached the inequality problem.
Christianity, even at its most grassroots form, never got hospitality as well as Islam did and still does.
@Redlogix.
You are joining the rabid right, in deliberately trying to associate movements, and people, trying to relieve oppression and increase social justice, with violent, totalitarian, oppressive and authoritarian regimes.
A false and dishonest political tactic.
The intent of calling them, "Marxist", is to try and discredit them.
It is doubtful if Marx, where he alive today would fit your definition of "Marxist".
O FFS. Marx was not Hitler, or Stalin, and many of Marx’s ideas have been repeated by thinkers since. His ideas such as the “rate of profit tend towards zero” are useful today. And repeated by right wing economists as well. Such as Hayek.
Our first Labour Government, and their supporters were influenced by much of Marx’s ideals. As was Atlees Government. Are you telling me they were a failure?
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
RedLogix seems so adamant about this. I am at a loss to understand what I see as his obtuseness. To my mind, Marx was one of many brainy people trying to understand societies' evolution, while adding his own moral strictures to his analysis, as we all tend to do.
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism. That is a quality he ascribed to the Monarchies and the Bourgeoisie he saw as ruling the countries of his time.
Yet Redlogix portrays him as doing so.. Why? Is there a religious motive? I have noticed Redlogix fiercely fight off any attacks on religion at times.
Is Marxism pure evil because it sees religion as the opium of the masses, and an instrument of social control manipulated by the Monarchies, the Bourgeoisie, etc?
Marx never tried to promote tyrannical totalitarianism.
Both Marx and Engels clearly anticipated the necessity for a violent social reconstruction. In reality this produces the conditions in which the most ruthless and cruel individuals quickly obtain total power because all the usual checks and balances have been swept away.
Given that Marx had the highly proximate example of the French Revolution to consider, it's difficult to argue that he didn't understand this.
The French Revolution: A dream to some… a nightmare to others.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody, and then humanity can roll out the hyper-energisation initiatives necessary (apparently) to save (some of) us from the impacts of global warming and maybe even the pandemics to come.
With luck the global Covid revolution will be less bloody,
Well then you'll have to make it so. Discard the ideological relics of Marx's blood-soaked era and actively demand we find new paths to change that are not rooted in the idea of 'violent revolutionary reconstruction'.
We'll have to make it so RL, but I lack your confidence that 'all' we need do is
Nevertheless, if you can sell your "new paths to change" to enough people you may yet achieve 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
may yet achieve a 'change' that has little impact on the lifestyles of the 'golden billion', at least in your own mind.
If we could extend the same, or better, quality of life that the 'golden billion' currently enjoy to the entire human race, while simultaneously progressing technically past the environmental and resource trap we face at present … why would you object to this?
And if so, do you imagine a 'violent reconstruction of the social order' would help or hinder this progression?
I certainly wouldn't object to it RL, however your first word in the comment @1:36 pm is key. One reason not to aim for your vision of utopia is its timeline – personally I think it’s dangerous ‘snake oil‘.
As to whether a(nother) “violent reconstruction of the social order” would help or hinder the progression you envision, recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the ‘golden billion‘ enjoys today. In any event I wouldn't worry about it – the ‘golden billion‘ are “too big to fail”
recall that past 'violent reconstructions' have contributed to the relatively comfortable existence the golden billion enjoys today
And there is the marxist devil in the details; that the 'ends justify the means'. To repeat this doesn't make you necessarily a marxist, but this is an idea that Marx promoted that I see creeping into conversations here all too often.
My thesis here is that humanity is on the cusp of a terrible global failure if we do not earnestly start considering evolutionary paths to progress that do not necessarily involve tearing everything down first.
To this end I've proposed a simple triplet model, that humanity expresses three primary political modes, the conservative, the liberal and the socialist. Each has a particular sphere of value, and each brings something to the table, and from this dialog we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies. But this only works if each mode is able to recognise the legitimacy of the other two parties it is negotiating with.
In particular each mode has it's own extreme expressions that history informs us are really bad ideas, and it's time we stopped recycling them in various forms in the vain hope that if we keep doing the same thing over and over that we will get to a different outcome.
Regarding your thesis, I agree with the first bit ("humanity is on the cusp of a terrible failure") – the sudden impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, and the slow-buring fuse of anthropogenic global warming, are frightening realities.
Focusing in on what’s achievable for the ‘golden billion‘, and more narrowly for NZ, I'm all for strengthening human rights, and I certainly don't want our wonderful society to be torn down. But it's important to realise that our society is not wonderful for everyone. A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Some might regard such redistribution as "tearing everything down"; theft even(!) – I see it as a way of building societal resilience and sustainability. https://thestandard.org.nz/nurses-ask-us-to-vote-for-our-health/#comment-1317498
A wealth tax, or some method of redistributing (a larger but still small percentage of) the wealth of the 'top' 10% for the betterment of the least wealthy 50% would be a good thing, IMHO.
Absolutely; if there is one single topic I've posted on more than any other over the years, it is the moral and social question posed by extremes of wealth and poverty. Addressing inequality in all of it's forms is the primary driving motivation of the socialist left; it's our reason to exist, it's our legitimate space. There is never any need to apologise for or justify this.
But we should be honest and admit that we've not done a terribly good job of understanding the root causes of inequality and thus failed to derive truly convincing solutions. In particular we should have understood by now that imposing direct state driven solutions that aim toward creating equal outcomes at the individual level always come at a cost to individual sovereignty and freedom of action, that societies as a whole are unwilling to pay.
Instead the modern mixed economy states like NZ employ a range of indirect measures such as investing in physical and social infrastructure (education, health, security etc), progressive taxation, equalising opportunity, and the welfare state to mitigate the worst excesses of inequality. We should pause to reflect that we've made a lot of progress, and for the most part this cobbled together collection of measures works way better than anything which came before.
But as you say, it doesn't feel like NZ is wonderful for everyone; it's not. Could we do better?
we might build stable, prosperous and viable societies.
This reflects the three domains of outcome that each political mode values most, in particular the socialist is fundamentally most concerned about our social and environmental viability over time. In particular any society that allows the inequality problem to runaway over time, inevitably invites instability and breakdown. (In this we should recognise that we have common ground with the conservative mode of thinking, we just frame this continuity issue differently.)
So while yes I've no particular objection to writing better and smarter tax systems (and there are many ways we could attempt this), the destination I have in mind is a fair bit further down the road.
'Tis indeed a long and winding road we're all on, although some of us are closer to the end of the road, and thankfully in my case.
If only individuals now could shift even a small part of their focus from planning one year/month/day/hour/minute ahead to planning one century ahead, then there might be some hope. Thanks to natural selection, most successful natural species (which are currently being driven to extinction faster than we can count) do this literally without thinking, but ‘we‘ had to go one better.
Still, can't say it hasn't been fun.
Hindsight wisdom, but over-simplified.
Orwell's 'Animal Farm' nailed both French and Russian revolutions for producing régimes like the one they overthrew, but you are wrong to limit the French revolution in that way It did eventually result in emperor Napoleon, but Napoleon was far better than Stalin. Throughout a stagnant Europe saddled with tired old monarchies, Napoleon installed new rulers of more progressive vision. Goethe (Germany's Shakespeare) was a willing participant in the Republic of Weimar that Napoleon installed.
France's modern legal system (in some ways superior to our adversrial one) was installed by Napoleon. So was its respected education system which lasted well into the 20th century before modern reforms.
You seem to have limited appreciations of the effects of the French revolution (only the negative ones) and then want to think that Marx would have taken your view into account.
Marx wrote at the time he was alive, long before what happened in Russia and China – he knew how Europe's social and intellectual advancement had been helped by Napoleon, who stemmed from the French Revolution. Marx was NOT promoting what you claim, and your knowledge of history seems to be plucked from what suits you.. with selective hindsight.
A lot of words to condone and justify the The Terror.
There are many accounts online, but most gloss over the vile, sadistic bloodlust that seized the French Revolutionaries. It truly consumed itself in an orgy of destruction.
As with most people who defend Marx, but pretend not to be actual Marxists, you're in deep denial that the shedding of oceans of blood causes far more harm than any good it may bring. If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of “enemies of the People” by impersonal government entities (Robespierre’s “Committee of Public Safety”). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.
And the assumption that violent revolution is the only path to progress is a deeply flawed one, that overlooks contemporaneous examples of nations that equally progressed without a mile high stack of corpses to show for it.
Marxist thought is an obsolete outgrowth of a deeply unsettled era in which power relationships where all that mattered. We should have learned some hard lessons from these humiliating catastrophes.
What?? Are you so indoctrinated?? I never mentioned the Terror (let alone justify it – your wishful thinking..) because the Terror was a strange phenomenon. You pick the usual little details of history to justify your angle, but you rarely seem to know much about it. True historians struggle to explain why the Terror came about, lasted only about 2 years, then equally inexplicably disappeared. The French Terror did not become a permanent feature like Stalin's Terror. It was NOT the lasting inheritance we got from the French Revolution, and you should not be so ignorant of that.
Linking the French Terror to the Nazis, Stalin, and Mao is mere wishful thinking, to suit your wishful attitude. Laughable. You could also link it to the persecution of the Huguenots, and the St Bartolomew's day Massacre, or even the Bolton Massacre in England. Or the inquisition. Feel free!
I continue to wonder if you have some religious basis for all the standard. right-wing view of history you seem to cleave to.
I never mentioned the Terror … because the Terror was a strange phenomenon.
Well no-one wanting to present the French Revolution as the glorious prototype of noble peasants rising up to overthrow a corrupt elite will usually dwell on it.
But once again it's interesting to see defenders of Marx wishing to minimise and distance themselves from mass murder when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Minimise? You are a wishful thinker, blinkered by your own attitudes.
I fully understand the horror of the Terror following the French Revolution, and believe I know more about the history of it than you do.
I deny nothing like what you suggest. I dispute your perspective.
Mass murder? That means something like what the Nazis and Stalin did.
I think you will find that even though the Terror was nasty, would you like to compare the estimated total deaths compared to Hitler and Stalin?
I doubt if you have thought about it, because it is convenient for you to equate them all.
Let me give you a simple hint: The guillotine was a new, refined way of killing people far more quickly and painlessly than the executioner's axe.
But it took time..
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
Now if you want to accuse me of minimisation (because I have now said something about it) show me the stats that equate the number of deaths following the French Revolution ( a temporary phase of about 2 years) with the deaths caused by Hitler and Stalin.
Nor did I present the French Revolution as you describe. Your silly idea.
I am tired of arguing with you. I do not respect you.
The numbers killed in the terror following the French Revolution are simply unrelated to the numbers slaughtered by Hitler and Stalin
However I suggest you dig a little deeper into the matter; the guillotine executions represented only a small fraction of those killed in the Reign of Terror. Most sources seem to agree on around 17 – 18,000.
However if you expand the scope to include the mass uprisings in Vendee (where the estimated death toll is 300,000) and the Napoleonic Wars that were the direct consequence of the Revolution, the total numbers rapidly rise to over a million … but become a lot harder to pin down. Napoleon I himself claimed over 3m Frenchmen gave their lives for him. Then of course in the breakdown and disorder disease took another dreadful toll in those times.
Not quite up there with Hitler or Stalin, but then in those guys had more raw material to work with so to speak.
This isn't a sports contest where the Revolution with the biggest death toll wins, I reckon however you cut it once you're past the first 10,000 or so deaths to pursue a political goal, you've made your point.
Of course people who quite like the idea of mass revolution, disruption and chaos in order to impose their political ideology will always argue to minimise and deflect from these catastrophic consequences. You may find it tiresome, but I'm not apologising for refusing to airbrush them from our history.
Good morning.
So far, this thread has been in-depth, on-topic, and respectful, but it can be hard work to have a robust debate and maintain this standard. In a situation like this, it might be best to agree to disagree before all respect is lost, which would avoid a deterioration of the debate that often tends to linger and spill over into future threads.
Would it be OK to agree with something Jesus said but not be a Christian? Or the Buddha and not be a Buddhist? You sound more idiotic with every new post.
@Wayne.
I agree.
However I though National's policy, and many in Parliamentary Labours, was to "leave it to the market". Making Government future planning obsolete.
In this case, to throw lots of money at business and hope a viable economy results.
Policies building for a sustainable future seem to have been left to the Greens.
I do wonder why they keep doing this. It's never worked before which is why we had that socialist revolution back in the 1930s. Capitalism had failed big time and socialism had to ride to the rescue.
And we're seeing the same thing again.
You'd think that, after thousands of years of capitalism failing, we'd finally wake up to the fact that it simply doesn't work.
@ KJT and RedLogix, if you wish, maybe you could continue your conversation in OM, yes?
Unfortunately, because of the dysfunctional reply functionality on the site I cannot move the thread from Mike’s Post to OM.
There is a NZ blogsite that pops up regularly in the Feeds section that you may have missed 😉
is the move to OM not working? Or there are too many to move because they're not threaded?
Because they’re not threaded. I suppose this doesn’t stop moving them to OM and both KJT and RedLogix seem ok with that 🙂
Done
Yes if possible it should be moved, it's clearly drifted OT.
Done
Had another power outage from Vector. Exactly the same as the last two outages. We call in. They send someone to investigate. About an hour after the call, we are back up and running. Feels like exactly the same problem each time. I wish they’d just fix the damn thing properly.
Unfortunately the UPS batteries are nearing the end of their lifetime. So the server doesn’t stay up long enough – roughly 35 minutes. The comms stay up for hours – I need to put a raspberry pi on to provide ‘Maintenance’ screen.
Fortunately there is now a box of new batteries down in the foyer after being delivered. Sufficient to give a clean update to all three UPS systems.
Unfortunately there is a box of them three long flights of stairs downstairs – and they're lead-acid. groan.
I keep looking for a moderately priced and safe lithium UPS. So far the only thing I see are ones designed for server rooms and priced accordingly.
isn't that what fit young nephews and nieces are for, lead acid batteries up three flights of stairs.
Ah good point – and a multitude of great nieces and nephews. However mine have moved out of range for routine chores. But my partner's nieces are growing just a few blocks up the road – soon will be old enough to do some trades of skills for labour.
Who is this Tim Davie? How did he get put in a position of ultimate responsibility of the BBC? Why is he trying to eviscerate it, apparently down to skeleton crew manning?
Timothy Douglas Davie CBE (born 25 April 1967) is the current and seventeenth Director-General of the BBC. He succeeded Tony Hall in the role on 1 September 2020. Davie was formerly the chief executive officer of BBC Studios (formerly known as BBC Worldwide).
Davie won a scholarship to attend Whitgift School in Croydon, and studied English at Selwyn College, Cambridge, being the first in his family to attend University. He joined Procter & Gamble as a trainee in 1991.
Appointed UK Marketing Manager for PepsiCo in 1993, Davie was subsequently promoted to Vice-President, Marketing, Europe and Sub-Sahara Africa, holding several similar appointments, including in the United States, before taking up the Vice-President for Marketing and Franchise post.
Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994 and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s.
BBC
Davie joined the BBC as Director of Marketing, Communications and Audiences in April 2005, succeeding Andy Duncan. He was Director-General Mark Thompson's first senior external appointment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Davie
(So an upwardly mobile middle class boy with business, marketing and management experience being entrusted with the nation’s broadcasting might and threatening it with tightening of opinion, satire and micro-managing it for any display of ‘ism’ or sensitive opinion that might take his fancy! The BBC that gave its gifted creatives the right to produce Monty Python etc etc and was the trusted truth during WW2 and pretty well for ever!)
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-54014210
New BBC director general Tim Davie against switch to subscription…
But he told staff there must be "a radical shift in our focus" so everyone gets value from the licence fee.
He warned that the BBC currently faces a "significant risk" and has "no inalienable right to exist".
(Everyone getting value from the licence fee – I feel I have heard those sentiments before. I think it means that old valued programs and practices will be stripped away so as to catch the attention of the young and reflect back to them whatever their present interests and sentiments happen to be.)
(This from Variety – sounds like something to do with the arts. Why would they have it in for the BBC?)
The BBC Has a New Boss. Will He Enforce the Radical Change it Needs to Survive?
https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/tim-davie-bbc-director-general-first-week-1234758553/
(This from the Financial Times.)
Tim Davie, the new no-nonsense BBC boss
https://www.ft.com/content/a27e9f84-009d-46e2-9495-a5c4973591fa
Oh Great, how encouraging. I gather that TVNZ's current CEO is a man from the bloody marketing industry – if you can call it that.
I would have preferred Andrew Davies – that great guy who wrote "A Very Peculiar Practice", and many other worthwhile TV productions.
We have the wrong idiots in charge of things!
edit
How about starting a Human Resources Agency called 'C-US For the Right Idiots'. We would get just a few takers I think, as it requires a sense of humour. And as the words went on a song I recently put up 'Sit Down Next to Me', it would require the ability to feel ridiculous now and then.
And the agency would look for people who had a real interest in, and experience in, the sector in which they would be working. It’s no use employing people who have developed themselves as machine-like thinkers, with generic suitability, fitting any slot, crevice or niche; having a robot would probably work out cheaper in the long run. Expensive up front but no large golden handshake. Whereas the human with the cunning and creative brain must be a contender for imaginative and smart stuff, and should be nurtured to bring that side out in whatever job is being done.
Don't suppose anyone could explain to me how the answer to the massive debt we are getting from Covid will be answered by an election bribe of an extra public holiday?
Do you often look for a connection between apparently unrelated things?
I don't see "paying down public debt" anywhere in the stuff article.
Fair point
At least now we can kind of guess the priorities.
Well, yeah, given that a new public holiday isn't the only policy Labour's announced so far.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Even national has managed to announce something other than a road recently.
Shit, I missed it. What was it? Lemme guess, it was tax cuts or a bonfire of regulations, right?
Schools! So many schools! Beautiful schools! And infrastructure thingummies! In ten to thirty years!
If they are a bit slow on the school thingies, National could well have us Predator-Free and with Beautiful schools by 2050..
I bet our schoolkids can hardly wait! The kiwi birds will probably be extinct by 2050, so it won't matter to them.
But as John Key explained when one of his deadlines slipped by, the target was just 'aspirational' anyway.
But fail on building enough houses (when the previous government did fuckall) and you never hear the end of it.
" in the first 10 years of a three-decade school growth plan – a plan that is yet to be developed." So says the article McFlock directs us to.
When does a wish or an idea become a plan?
Well said McFlock. It seems it is an excuse to not arguments the merits of policy proposal.
In addition, why Chris T is it an 'election bribe'? Is an election policy a bribe by definition, or do you see a distinction between different types of policies, and if so what is the distinction?
For my part a policy that both recognises the Tangata Whenua, and addresses the need for public holiday at that time of the year must be a good thing.
and ,it will be a kickstart to another good weekend for local tourism and the general NZ economy. as an economic policy, its a winner. so , the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot. expect to see and hear don brash. he will probably need a bigger soapbox for this one.
"the opposers are going to have to go down the 'giving in to maori" lot"
???
I was thinking the more why are we talking about businesses having to pay for another public holiday while we are going to be into a recession.
If you are going to do it at least lose one of the others like Queens birthday.
It is just odd timing for this sort of policy.
Edit: Should add Kelvin Davis was just on Ryan Bridges show on the radio saying it is going to cost 230 odd million dollars a year….I mean wtf?
find me ANY public holiday which doesnt supercharge the NZ economy. they all turn into long weekends , rd trips, trips to the beach, fairs etc. in the big scheme of things, public holidays HELP the general economy.
I never said there wasn't.
If you read my post I said lose one of the others if you are going to do it.
Believe me. I would love a public holiday in the massive gap we don't have one.
But just slapping in a new one during a recession is silly to me.
Edit: And did you even read my post. Kelvin Davis has said it would cost non tourist business up to 230 million dollars a year
to stimulate the local economy, a recession is exactly the right time to do it.
Maybe if you own a motel or a cafe, but everyone else, not so much
The holiday begins in 2022. Will we be in recession then? If we went into recession now, that is 21 months away, longer than it took NZ to enter and exit the 2007-9 recession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession_in_Oceania
I dont suppose you could come out and say that you want to impose austerity to pay off the covid debt would you?
Their tax and economic policy would be handy.
Given they promised it before the election
Prime Minister Ardern wanks to make Matariki a public holiday.
I say that's an excellent idea.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/winston-peters-again-veers-coalition-partners-says-now-isnt-time-matariki-public-holiday
(the Greens like it as well).
It's a sure-fire way to keep all those Maori seats in Labour's hands in 2020 and beyond.
That's either one helluva typo or an awesome freudian slip.
The proposal itself is excellent and way overdue, tho.
Sorry for the spelling mistake. Almost had a pubic holiday.
Since Matariki marks the start of the Maori agricultural year, I'd expect Maori farmers would be putting a lot of pressure on Federated Farmers to also come out in support as a celebration of how agriculture, and New Zealand is so tied into the progression of the seasons.
Ha!
Can see you having a lot of fun with your fellow grower councillors along those lines…
But seriously, it's a rural celebration, for those in touch with the land and environment. Matariki should be huge in rural parts of New Zealand. Lots of potential with this, both social and commercial.
Give up Christmas lamb? Sacrilege.
Yup. I recall years back suggesting this in the context of moving away from Guy Fawkes and promoting Matariki as a more authentic kiwi celebration. It would be a very strong symbolic recognition of Maori culture and it's central place in New Zealand society.
Brilliant policy to have a Matariki public holiday. It is the only uniquely New Zealand holiday. And to allay the squealing of "what about the cost to business" it would not be brought in till 2022 when hopefully New Zealand is on a more even keel and many businesses would actually benefit from people getting around the country. Great move Jacinda and Kelvin.
Perhaps long weekends should be the standard
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-4-day-work-week-boosts-productivity-2019-11
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/425427/keep-new-zealand-beautiful-misses-out-on-government-funding
I am not convinced Eugenie Sage is a good person in her government role. It's an upper-class attitude to the problems of the masses to put up tip fees as a way of reducing trash, for instance. Now the entity Keep NZ Beautiful which has a statutory role for the government in promoting motivation to reduce litter has had no funding at all this year because the priorities have changed. I get an impression of Lady Bountiful deciding on who is going to receive charity and who not.
I see this as an example of government not supporting the public when particular groups provide suitable ways to assist the country to change matters or support needed causes. Their work must be useful and they need to show that they are succeeding at achievable goals of course. If they are suddenly refused funding then they often have to close down and useful work doesn't get done, skilled, informed people are lost, and so though there may be cutbacks in some years there should be continuity of support. Otherwise it looks as if the whole sector is being treated like beggars in a grace-and-favour distribution. And encouraging competition can actually splinter and diminish outcomes.
Isn’t Waitangi Day a uniquely New Zealand holiday? And also the various provincial anniversaries?
[I have deleted your surname from your user handle in case this was a mistake, as you previously had not included it – Incognito]
And Queen's Birthday. Nobody else celebrates that the same day we do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Official_Birthday
Is Waitangi Day being questioned and other holidays? What does this reference? I see there is something at No. 20 – don’t forget to use the Reply button to someone else’s comment.
edit
What is known about hospital backlogs in the NZ Lockdown 2 areas? I am hearing about people in pain who were at the top of waiting lists receiving no information about when they can get help yet there are few Covid-19 cases.
Is Covid-19 giving an excuse for hospitals not to get back to their normal work? What is happening about this? Is government aware of the way that their private/public mode is ineffective, and their funding is not elastic enough to cope with the added stresses that the pandemic is making. Hoping all will be well, praying even if they are that religiously inclined, is not going to help those whose conditions are worsening.
The Upper Hutt hospital is one I have heard about. I would think that all outside Auckland's Lockdown 3 situation, would be under difficulties, and of course Canterbury District Health Board where there seems to have been an approach akin to that of a family tiff, with sides being taken about who is to be believed and supported.
Anybody with info about any of the Health Boards' situation?
Here are the intentions for hospital care during L2
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/health-and-disability-services-alert-level-2
Thanks weka – I'll run that off and post it to the person asking me and it will be something definite to refer to rather than hearing confusing possibilities and rumours.
@Ad. 20. Of course the Greens like it. It has been a Green policy forever.