John Roughan, fan boy for John Key, tells the media they ” can be too precious about its rights.”
Unbelievable. He is a total disgrace to the tradition of a free press.
Just the corporate’s lackey.
Sounds like he’s annoyed Hager spoke to the Guardian.
“It worries me that Hager would write this stuff for an overseas audience, not on account of New Zealand’s reputation – that’s not a journalist’s concern – but from the effect on his readers, which is a journalist’s only concern.”
You mean someone might spill the beans to the world that Planet Key isn’t perfect. Heaven forbid.
@ Paul
John Rough-and? could be very wise Paul. When he says he is worried at “the effect on his readers, which is a journalist’s only concern.” he may be coming from a position supportive of Labour. How?
Well he might know his readers tiny minds very well and have realised how scrambled their ideas would be by these revelations. And that they would stay glued limpet-like or rush back to the safety of National, avoiding Labour like a plague because it was causing them angst and stress. He knew they would never want to take in the whole mess and be forced to examine the very basis of their beliefs in society. They felt unsafe, National was saying it would keep them safe. QED they would vote for National and eschew Labour! And that worried him, how kind. This man is machiavellian.in his understandings.
‘You mean someone might spill the beans to the world that Planet Key isn’t perfect. Heaven forbid.’ It’s not the world that mightily concerned him, it was us voter-sheeple massed in a flock facing the all-seeing-eye dogs, all clustered on the pimple on the bottom of the world, that he was psychoanalysing.
I wrote a comment for John suggesting that his rant might have been lifted from the works of Frank of Fiji fame. Everything is good here. Nothing to worry your pretty little heads about.
Whereas many of the Guardians readers will have heard of Greenwald and a few will be aware of Hager, I am sure none will have heard of that fearless journalist John Roughan!
green mayor of wellington (finally!) makes good on her first election campaign pledge to ‘help the homeless’ of wellington..
ed:..wade-brown slept in a sleeping bag..in a cardboard box for the night..
..oh! the humanity..!
..she is such an inspiration..
..and we are told the homeless of wellington wept with gratitude when they heard of this sacrifice/effort made by their ‘caring’ mayor..their ‘leader’..
Aside from paying lip service to the homeless as a reason to bash the greens, again, tell me what do you do, specifically, to assist street sleepers and squash poverty?
“i’m not the fucken mayor..with the power to ‘do something’..(..and especially having promised to ‘do something’..)”
You could donate to charity, hand out food and warm drinks or give a blanket or clothing. There’s always something can be done by the people, but all you have is the usual puism. Id the issue, slag those in the firing line, yet do nothing to help those in need.
“..you mindless/simplistic fool…”
And yet I’ve shown three ways, in the absence of government will, that you didn’t think of to help the homeless, so simplistic maybe, but mindless is way off… Quelle surprise.
“..(and no..i am not commencing a dialogue with you..)”
You’re funny in a ha ha way sometimes. Not your jokes or caption contest entries, they’re as flat as roadkill, but gems like these crack me up.
Of course you are. All I do is hit the nail on the head and you can’t help yourself.
Chat later. lulz
TA.
One “cause celebre overnighter” with a top quality sleeping bag and a fresh clean cardbard box roughing it for one night is doing nothing for the homeless:
– unless she invited a bunch of her new cardboard box friends to shift into the spare room at her place for a few months
– unless she was being sponsored (ala World Vision 40 hour Famine) to get money to support a shelter
– unless she was announcing more $$$ for the City Mission to help meet the needs of the homeless
Its all about as dopey as Al Gore flying around the world in his private jet to tell folk bout the dangers of global warming
“and..”..Its all about as dopey as..’..self-referring ‘greens’ who eat animals..?”
Why is green voters eating meat dopey?
And self referring? What’s that all about?
“..and they were all wearings the skins of dead animals…”
“…these are the ‘green’/aware members of the parliamentary circus…”
And why is it wrong for green mps to wear leather shoes and sheepskin coats?
Having green values isn’t determined by what you eat or wear on your feet. It’s way more advanced than veganism.
I’m picking your societal quirks determine your position and foster the obvious hatred for the greens.
So settle petal, it’s your problem, not theirs.
I dont think the Green manifesto is a vegan one Phillip.
Heck if it was, then they would struggle to get to 5% of the vote. Theres many meat eating, milk drinking folk out there who support the Greens sustainability goals but dont plan to give up on their leather shoes anytime soon.
But they might take the bus to the rugby if theres no easy car parking close to the stadium. 🙂
“..Theres many meat eating, milk drinking folk out there who support the Greens sustainability goals but dont plan to give up on their leather shoes anytime soon…”
..the wade-brown syndrome writ large..?
..a solar-panel and a prius ‘ll do ya..eh..?
..no need for anything else..
..the planet may be frying ‘cos of animal-farming..
Haha, good reply Phillip, but it wont win any debates.
You should differentiate between the “ordinary folk” who recognise that being less wasteful than we were is a good thing (thats the vast majority of people) and those minority few who hold to a higher ideal so go vegan and I guess must wear hemp everythings. And moan about those who dont follow their philosophies
Somewhere in the middle is the Green Party.
Now the Vegans cant change society beyond one person at a time, but a green movement can change a country, altho in smaller steps than the vegans would like.
For the record, we only have 4 V8 cars now (and a couple of 4 cylinder cars too) , but we did install a solar heater on the last home we owned.
so its a big yes to solar power, and a big no to the Prius 🙂
Thanks for calling out Wade-Brown on her shallow self-publicity gig. One fabulously calm Wellington night with a full belly, luxury sleeping bag and, no doubt, loads of security thrown in is nothing but a joke.
As for ‘green Mayor’ label – the only thing that is green about Wade-Brown are the people who think she is. In reality, Wellington’s Mayor, like most of the Council, is bought and sold by the business chamber of commerce and a cartel of property developers.
phillip ure
Hey not so much of the sneer. It is a good and unusual example of dramatising by a leader of the too-often ignored problems out there. If you think she could have done better, could you demonstrate how to her, with your own public protest? Possibly you have a disablement. If you can’t act out, act in and write now to the paper, thank her, and then tell about the difficulties you or your group experience and include a tip how people can do to improve and help you.
But is she doing nothing if she is sleeping out?? She has to go up against a good number at Council and in the public who would like to sweep the homeless under a carpet, and then they wouldn’t even provide a carpet. It’s getting enough of backing. making a case that the public will back so you can put pressure on, it’s all ‘political’. Which is a word that key hates, which I think means something that isn’t directly beneficiial to people who are comfortable. Why should they be made even slightly uncomfortable for the benefit of people who they consider subordinate to ‘their’, entitled, life.
This economist Amartya Sen is a Nobel Prize winner – special one for economists. http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/sound-and-vision/amartya-sen-poverty-and-the-tolerance-of-the-intolerable
20/1/2014 Sen took as his title “Poverty and the Tolerance of the Intolerable”. No country in the world, he declared, is “free from poverty”, though in India, the country of his birth, where there is a “massive disparity between the privileged and the rest”, extreme deprivation is particularly deeply entrenched. India, he said, is an example of a country with a large middle class which is able to tolerate, with something approaching equanimity, the serious poverty in its midst.
(Although the situation in India is extreme—Sen referred to the “special nature of the neglect of its poor” —there is no reason for those of us elsewhere in the world, especially the developed world, to be complacent. “Blaming the victims” of poverty, he observed, is as common today as it was in the era of the Poor Law.)
Something is starting to bug me about an aspect of this (and the last) election analysis.
Hager (in the Guardian link from Roughams article) repeats the received truth that those who don’t vote tend to natural left voters and that leaves an accentuated vote for the right.
Here’s my problem.
In elections where turnout is as low as 50%, left parties are winning absolute majorities under a proportional representation system embedded within an overarching neo-classical/liberal environment. (Scotland)
So, the problem cannot be as simple as stated. I’m not contesting that more people in working class areas (left voters) tend to stay at home. But the conclusion – that that necessarily (inevitably?) favours the right – simply isn’t true.
It might be true in NZ though. Because something happens in another country doesn’t mean it’s the equvialent here. There are things about the Scottish situation that have no parallel here (eg the Union and Scottish antipathy for the English). I’m assuming that during the neoliberal revolution in the UK, while Scotland was hit very hard, it didn’t have the same degree of culture shift that NZ had (Scotland had an obvious external enemy whereas NZ took a decade to realise that the enemy was within and then where could we go with that?).
At a guess, have NZ political parties done analysis on polling booths and socio economic status and voting patterns? That would tell something. That National previously liked low voter turnout means something too (although I have a feeling that this election one of the reason for increased turnout was National getting right wingers out to vote, which is part of why this election has been confusing).
Yeah, well, there is no hatred of ‘the English’. So let’s get that out of the way first.
Then there is the fact that I drew attention to similarities, which is somewhat different to claiming things are identical.
Also, I don’t quite buy your ‘external/internal’ enemy framing. Scotland voted for Tony Blair’s Labour Party in British elections.
But in 2011(?) they gave the ‘lefter than Labour’ SNP a majority in the Hollyrood elections on a turnout of approx 50%. The unchallenged contention…it’s almost an article of faith… that the level of the non-vote leads to an increased proportion of votes falling to the right (in the US, in NZ and by logical extension ‘everywhere’if proponents of that view are to be believed) dictates that the Scottish Labour Party should have done well in that election. It didn’t.
Yes and Blair’s invasion of Iraq in 2003 turned many Labour voters towards supporting the SNP and for independence.
Thatcher broke the Tories vote in Scotland and Blair severely damaged Labour’s hold on working class Scots.
I didn’t use the word hatred, nor the word identical. Perhaps you could reread my comment with that in mind and look for the intent rather than focussing on semantics.
edit: your original comment appeared to be saying that because these things are true in Scotland they might be true in NZ. I pointed out that that didn’t follow, and that some pretty significant differences might be the reason.
Weka, all I did was point to a rather obvious counter example that evidently contradicts the current ‘received wisdom’ on the matter.
Whether you prefer to defend current notions, and so accept the obvious flow on effect (ie, the nonsense that suggests either a party must win the center vote by tacking to the right [think: Shearer et al] or get the non-vote out by tacking to the left [think: many of the arguments posited on ‘ts’]) is entirely up to you.
Meanwhile, the results of Scottish elections absolutely demonstrate that tacking left, even within a broader, right leaning, neo-liberal environment does not necessarily mean losing votes to the right from those who are already intending to vote.
Further, it’s an illustrative example of a low voter turnout not having a deleterious effect on the left.
I’m not defending current notions (I have my own critiques of them), I’m challenging your basic premise that the situation in Scotland is pertinent to the situation in NZ. I get the case you are making, but unless you are willing to look at the substantive differences and how they might affect voter turnout and voter preference I can’t see where the discussion can go.
Please stop misinterpreting my comments and ascribing flow on arguments to them that are of your own thinking not mine.
If someone believes that low voter turnout favours the right, and if someone believes that to be true in any and all neo-liberal environments (and there are many people on the left currently ascribing to that view), then it follows that there will be competing views on the left as to whether the center or the non-voter should be chased, with the repercussions vis a vis policy that is inherent to both camps of thought.
On the other hand, if there is an example that could quite reasonably be held to contradict that either/or scenario… and oh fuck!…there is!
If it’s unreasonable to hold it up as an example, then those who think that are free to run through some convincing reasons as to why it should be seen as so unreasonable, by offering substantive examples of dynamics with effects that could be reasonably seen as greater than that of the prevailing ‘truth’ with regards voters/turnout and right wing advantage.
In the absence of any such convincing critique, the Shearers of the world – those who claim modern politics is necessarily all about contesting the center, and therefore about moderate ‘middle of the road’ policies – can be said to be havering on the basis that they’re ignoring really existing examples to the contrary.
Show me the right wing social agenda of the SNP by way of a list of their social policies that demonstrate they are to the right of Labour. Then explain to me how their progressive tax on house sales is right wing; how their blocking of the bedroom tax is right wing; how their historical front footing over the poll tax is right wing; how their opposition to bombing isis is right wing…
Finally, understand that they are not drawing support ‘from the left of’ Labour, but that they are cleaning up Labour’s hitherto solid voting base.
One of the first thing Salmond wanted to do after independence was cut corporation tax.
The fact of the matter is that the SNP, while considerably more left-wing than they used to be, still has a Tartan Tory element to the party. And, in many ways, Salmond was from that Tartan Tory faction. He buddy up with Rupert Murdoch (and apparently Putin did much to restore Russian pride and you’ve got to admire that). He remarked once that Thatcher’s economic policies were okay for Scotland. He considered a welfare benefit cap might be a good idea. Salmond is definitely of the right of the SNP, with a lingering remain of that Tartan Toryness.
The SNP looks far more attractive as a left-wing party with Nicola in charge.
So, I’d be careful with what analogies you draw from the SNP. Because they won their majority with the leadership in the hand of the more centrist faction (Salmond), which would seem to suggest you would advise Labour to go with Shearer or Parker?
Well, at least you know or suspect that your conclusion is wrong. So is your reasoning.
Yes, the SNP threatened to cut corporation tax post independence – seen as a right wing policy that encourages a race to the bottom as states get pitted against one another to attract business HQ etc.
I guess – and I’m only guessing – that the SNP reckoned they had that balanced with other monies, so that social services wouldn’t suffer, and that they were punting that the overall $ (sic) amount from having more corporate HQs paying less tax would leave the public coffers healthier than if they kept their tax rate on a par with, or above that of England and Wales….as well as leading to greater immigration and so, economic growth…that in itself delivers a higher $ (sic) tax take. Or maybe they should have left their tax rate above that of England and Wales where it’s slated to drop to 20% from 2015?
Anyway…they commit to keeping the NHS in Scotland fully public and free. They commit to retaining free tertiary education. They commit to the retention of state provided old age care. They introduce progressive house taxation. They wanted to introduce a future fund from oil revenue. They aim to cut carbon emissions by 42% by 2020. They want rid of nuclear power and nuclear weapons…and so on and so on.
And all that when the leader is, in your opinion, a Tartan Tory who may have made some lamentable comments and indulged in some dodgy dealings. You imagine, then, what’s in store with Nicola Sturgeon as leader if your interpretation is correct?
They didn’t show up at Westminster for key votes on the bedroom tax! & their economic policy in the case of independence was basically a cross between Ireland’s low tax “Celtic Tiger” (before that went south) and the Nordic resource extraction economies – it wasn’t very “left wing”.
I’m not arguing the SNP are right wing exactly, I’m saying that if you think they are the “left” in Scotland you are very much oversimplifying.
And it’s not the case that the SNP is “cleaning up” Labour’s base. SNP does well for Holyrood, Labour for Westminister. Scottish voters are reasonably sophisticated and many seem to vote differently between Westminster & Holyrood.
I think the SNP are a component of the left in Scotland. And evidence suggests they are to the left of the Scottish and British Labour Parties.
I dunno about turning up to vote on the bedroom tax, or even if there would have been a point. But there was a point in annulling its impact, which is what they did. Andrew George’s Affordable Homes Bill made it through a second reading vote by 306 to 231, a majority of 75. And 4 of the 6 SNP members did not turn up to vote.
And it’s perfectly understandable that the same person who votes Labour in Westminster elections, votes SNP in Hollyrood elections…Scotland exerts about a 1/10th of the raw voting impact of England and Wales in UK wide elections and there is no way the SNP are taking votes from Labour in England and Wales.
But the more left parties in Scotland (greens, scottish socialist party, snp) are experiencing skyrocketing membership numbers while Labour’s membership is (by Labour’s own admission) stagnant. To put into perspective, the SNP (from a population base of about 5 million) is now the third largest party in UK terms (population base of some 55 or 60 million).
Richard, Pretty Wow from Fran.“The issue is too big to be swept under the carpet by mere politics and a focus on chasing whistleblowers instead of the real issues.”
And so say all of us!
Wow, the first part of Armstrong’s article is nothing less than an outright ode to how great National and King Key are.
Key’s prime ministership has been bedevilled by the ongoing embarrassment flowing from the GCSB.
No, it has been embarrassed at getting caught lying to NZ about how far it’s going with it’s spying on NZers.
By announcing the new structure now, Key may also have headed off any criticism or recommendations made by the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security, Cheryl Gwyn, once she has completed the inquiry into whether information was released by the SIS for political purposes.
So Armstrong is suggesting (hoping?) that Key will get away with being held accountable – again.
If it really wants to be viewed as a broad-based party then it is going to have to take positions which are in line with National’s thinking.
No they don’t. They really don’t have to be National Lite. In fact, I’d say that their being National Lite is what’s losing them the votes.
Key may be making a personal commitment to tackling child poverty. But National is starting a long way from behind.
A special ministerial committee on poverty toiled away to minimal effect during the last term.
But then it was an initiative of the Maori Party. Its contribution to the debate on poverty was to commission reports and papers which largely went unread.
Translation: Because it was an initiative of the Māori Party it could safely be ignored by National but Key’s now feeling the pressure to do something.
That is roughly the same as the cost of National’s intended tax cut.
And about how much National gave to the rich in their last round of tax cuts.
When is the government going to take the decline of small town and rural nz seriously. We don’t all want to live in a stinking traffic jam of a city. I’d like to know if centralization of population is the goal or if its willful blindness because there’s not many votes outside the cities.
I certainly don’t I’m feely sure they don’t. Just pissed that I’ve worked hard gone with out got a free hold house buy 42 and just had 8% wiped off its value at the stroke of QV’s pen
But the US armed and trained many of the people in ISIS.
They and are probably still providing support to the parts of ISIS attacking and destabilising the Assad government. Further US actions and support for the Shia Baghdad Govt has given Sunni regions north of Baghdad political, social and tribal reasons to support ISIS.
I know people who as they get older have moved because the hospital systems have been downgraded in rural towns. More work to encourge business to small town Nz.
Employment creates employment so when government pulls jobs out of a area the Ohura prison being a example and the slow death of rail being another it has a knock on effect in the community.
Basically, but let’s put it more directly than this. Spending into a community creates jobs. The private sector won’t spend into communities. So if the government wants to sort out unemployment in provincial communities, it must spend into them.
The corollary of this is that BM is lying through his teeth when he says Government cannot turn up and announce a pile of jobs. Government of course can, has and done so very effectively in NZ’s past.
Then you need to get together with the rest of the folk in whatever small town you live in and get busy.
Only you and the other town folk can turn your small town around
The government will not be riding in on a white horse to save the day.
The governments job is to keep the country as a whole running and to provide a safe a prosperous environment for the majority of it’s citizens without bankrupting the country.
Problem solving on a micro level is up to the individual/individuals, not the government.
“Getting busy and getting off your chuff” doesn’t create jobs, BM. Spending into communities creates job.
BM you are still avoiding the core issue – the private sector doesn’t care about declining provincial communities. So the government must. Or as b waghorn says – why have government at all.
Why don’t you believe in the role of government in creating sustainable employment BM? Many rural communities are under serviced with public services. There are jobs which can be created right there.
BM also continues to ignore facts – government has very successfully created industry and economic activity in rural NZ before.
Problem solving on a micro level is up to the individual/individuals, not the government.
This is utterly false, especially when thousands, tens of thousands of people are in the same societal circumstances.
It is up to government to identify the needs of its citizens and to provide services and support to each one.
Government has more than enough money to do so, and the country certainly has unused resources that it can employ to deliver this support and services.
That’s easy – can foreign investment/ownership, can the private banks creating money and have the government create and spend money into the economy. Do that and it would be impossible for the country to go bankrupt.
Of course, the banksters won’t like that as it stops them from becoming the new aristocrats.
“Employment creates employment so when government pulls jobs out of a area the Ohura prison being a example and the slow death of rail being another it has a knock on effect in the community.”
So true, Many years ago I use to call on a couple of clients in Ohura.
Use to arrive about lunchtime. have lunch in the cafe next to the supermarket call on the garage and fill the car, have a short break walk up the road and have a look in the shops etc. before driving on to Stratford.
Last Feb we had a photographic trip down that way, the first time for over 20 years. We saw one ghost town after another. Ohura there is nothing, no shops and the garage is now a second hand shop. All the little settlements have gone.
Sad really as these were vibrant communities.
@ b waghorn
We are blindly following USA. I have forgotten how many large cities and ports have registered as bankrupt or similar there. It was unheard of once but no longer. It’s dismissed as just the business cycle moving on. Businesses become defunct new ones rise, it’s a cleansing, renewing process, sort of like a natural season, spring following winter. Remember Clint and Michael Moore’s film.
Using intellect, running a whole-of-country economic plan, is anathema to NACTS. Douglas still is nostalgic about his great leap forward if only all his plan could be put in place. He is not satisfied with the harm he has already caused. There were some good things but they don’t happen to have been good for most people. This is a seagull economy. All the big birds are watching for the advantage, when there’s a crust they all swoop down but the most aggressive get there first. The aggressive losers stick out their bills, and run at the others to keep their distance. And the little birds clean up the crumbs in the few seconds the others are away fighting over the crust. And when the gulls have finished they fly over your head and poop on your shoulder.
Part of the problem for places like Taumarunui were I am is that we are in a large area dominated buy farmers who vote nats know matter what. So we can be taken for granted buy them and ignored buy the rest. Small town nz has no power.
Can a group of you get together to support getting someone on the local council or the community council. Between planning giant dams and planning coastal subdivisions and mining there might be a space to fit in something human sized and helpful to the general public. And you introduce the policy. It might take a few years to get through!
I hope she rubs sore loser Hone’s nose in it. Bradford was never taken seriously by Mana. Her stance against the Internet/Mana hook up should have been better listened too. Unfortunately Hone was too thick.
I agreed with Bradford when the IMP was initiated.
One of her main arguments, as I recall, was that it takes time to build a party and a movement, and that IMP would interfere with the building and focus that had already gone on in/with Mana.
I hope that Bradford is way more sensible and forward thinking than attempting to, as you put it, “rub sore losers Hone’s nose in it.” I don’t see that approach as being in any way helpful.
Mana can still continue with the building and focus it has had over the last few years. NZ needs such a Mana Party.
+ 1 Karol
I am sure that Sue still has a lot of respect for Hone, and she is not the type to gloat. Mana and Hone both have a future in NZ politics I hope.
I would have liked her to show political wisdom after her years at it, and shut her gob before not after the election. Then was the time to quietly slide out if she didn’t like it but with discretion, not mouth.
Sue making her stance so publicly didn’t help anyone. My impression of Hone is that he was one of the more intelligent MPs. You don’t have to be thick to make a mistake.
A moment of hypocrisy from Kim Hill mars an excellent interview
Radio New Zealand National, Saturday 11 October 2014
This morning, Kim Hill interviewed Karen Armstrong, an expert on world religion and author of Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence. She launched the Charter for Compassion as a global peace initiative in 2009.
As usual with Kim Hill, this was a thoughtful and constructive half hour or so. There was only one jarring moment, which prompted this writer, i.e., moi, to send her the following email….
Dear Kim,
You asked Karen Armstrong whether she believed “Muslims should condemn more strongly ISIS and Al Qaeda.”
Why did you not ask her whether Christians and Jews should condemn the marauding gangs of Uzi-toting illegal settlers in the Occupied West Bank?
Yours sincerely,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point.
Keep listening, fellas! She might just read it out on air.
Yes, I heard that too, that is also a question that should have been asked. That question was a bit unusual for her, she doesn’t normally go with the knee-jerk journalism querys that afflict us on every level. Never mind I’m waiting for the Dave Dobbyn Don Mcglashin interview.
I visited in my early 20,s fell in love with the place and have gone back regularly ever since
I have bought some property , am studying Spanish with my family and am on the road to residency, Uruguay is quite open when it comes to immigration, you should look into it (especially if you are a single guy the Women are fun, friendly,open & Beautiful but VERY fiery in general !)
although you probably wouldn’t appreciate the average Uruguayans dietary habits ?
One down pointcan be the prevalence of “machismo”, It takes an assertive women to deal with it sometimes, particularly in the urban areas,rural men and gauchos are usually a little more conservative.
My wife and daughters have slapped a lot men over the years, The flip side is the receivers of said slaps will almost always bow out gracefully at that point & usually with a vote of respect for the “dama de fuego” or “chica ardiente” in question !
Chica ardiente is better than chica caliente. 🙂
Or maybe not, depending on the situation.
If my health allowed, I’d retire to Brazil. Unfortunately, it doesn’t. I prefer their attitude to life to that of the NAct lovers who have ruined Aotearoa. Brazil still has a sense that it’s developing as a nation. Aotearoa seems to be undergoing a process of destruction. I imagine Uruguay would be a cross between the south of Brazil and Chile.
What he says about being poor is amazing.
“Poor are the ones who describe me so. My definition of poor is those who need to much. Because those who need too much are never satisfied.”
Inspirational.
David Shearer on the Nation saying that he, Robertson, Parker &co should have a veto over the leadership prerefence of the membership.
Shearer and his bitter buddies hate hate the membership having a say.
Time for Shearer to get out of Labour.
Watching The Nation oh dear me David Shearer should take his family’s advice and not stand as leader. Listening to him brings back those painful memories when he was last leader, that frustrating feeling of willing an answer out of him.
He couldn’t help but turn venomous against Cunliffe, however for DC losing the confidence of his deputy is quite a telling blow. I believe DC needs to call it quits and allow overwhelming support for Andrew Little.
Contracting out allows more money to be made off the American taxpayer, all flowing into private hands. Clean and legal too.
I have a friend who is ex NZ military working (4 years ago) a security adviser to some American outfit in Iraq. Big money, huge danger with bounty on his head. Wars are a licence to print money something the Yanks know all about.
While we take notice of the goings on in the House, most kiwis don’t. It doesn’t really matter his preformance in the house, it’s the MSM who decide who governs. In saying that Little could do worst than screaming at and abusing Key during oral question time, and perhaps giving very few interviews. I believe too much footage for Gower and his bent cohorts just allows them to edit and run any bulshit angle they want.
Bit old school, but what really needs to happen in the interest of politic’s being serious and not a bloody game, is that a anti media super hero comes forward and gives one of these smart asre journalists a serious roughening up, they’ll all get the message instantly to pull their fucking heads in.
Plenty of Countries where the media wouldn’t be getting away with distorting political outcomes like this current batch of MSM are doing here.
What’s the name of that movie Charles Bronson was the lead in?
Quite right Phillip.
Watching Shearer and Little on TV is like watching two bumbling bureaucrats searching for deckchairs.
Backstories that involve cleaning up corpses after the mercenaries, and stiff arming workers into treacherous deals with bosses are appropriate skillsets for the Party of Capital not the Party of Labour.
One can see the dirty politics machinations going on to manage the primary to reclaim total control of the Party for the Blairite Caucus Majority.
They and the whole right wing so hate the ideas of party democracy when the bureaucracy knows perfectly well what workers need (to be more productive of profits).
Workers don’t need the primary because that’s the only thing that can rescue the sinking ship and put those who actually do the Labour in charge of the Party.
What really annoys me about the attacks on Cunliffe from caucus members is that they never say WHY they do not like him. Darien Fenton, who I do respect for her work with unions, has made it clear that she opposed Cunliffe becoming the leader and still does. Why, Darien?
They blame Cunliffe for the the election result without saying what it was that he insisted on doing in the campaign that they did not agree with.
The reason I have gone off Grant Robertson completely is that he was willing to use the “sorry for being a man” as a reason for Cunliffe not being popular, but didn’t say that the statement had been taken out of context and used by the MSM to attack Cunliffe relentlessly. To me, that was inexcusable.
Parker has said he no longer has confidence in Cunliffe, but won’t say why. He has taken no responsibility for the unpopularity of some of the policy he promoted eg raising the age eg entitlement to superannuation.
Agree with all your sentiments, Karen – the question really is, why can the Caucus not act in a professional manner and do their jobs without playing stupid games. You would think that it was a contest for Class President, not for Leader of the Labour Party. These people are all on huge money courtesy of US, the taxpayers. Why can’t they knuckle down and concentrate on the work at hand instead of sniping about who they “like” and “don’t like” personally. Everyone in the outside business world manages that, why can’t they?? Who the HELL do they think they are? Get your snouts down to work, I say! Criticising David Cunliffe and saying if he is Leader it would be very divisive, David Shearer showed us all who he really is on “The Nation” today – an unprofessional, petty and small person who holds grudges. I have never heard David Cunliffe running down colleagues in this way. For that alone, Shearer is totally unsuitable to be Leader.
my thoughts exactly. I cringed when I heard the unprofessional simpleton.
I had whole heartedly supported him when he took over from Goff. After hearing this morning’s interview, and his public statements, I am very glad he isn’t the leader of the Labour party! It is he and other anti Cunliffe caucus cabal that are dividing the Labour party and are damaging it.
At least Little was a little more smarter and statesmanlike in his interview.
“At least Little was a little more smarter and statesmanlike in his interview’
Not a lot smarter or statesmanlike, but just a little bit better than Shearer.
I completely disagreed with Little’s put down of Kim Dot Com/IMP.
Bet he would have had a different take if Hone had won in spite of all the parties that ganged up against him and had IMP won 3 or 4 MPs and were needed to prop up a Labour led coalition.
I just read littles nation interview on nbr It lacked the waffle that usually stops me from getting to the end of it he made clear points and opinions I hope he stays that way.
If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months
What Boag does is up to her. She is a loyal National Supporter. Comments by people like her, may be genuine, but just as easily (as we have learnt from Dirty Politics) could be playing games. I’m quite capable of forming my own opinion, without any “help” from Ms Boag.
~~~~~~~
….the fact that Little has “put down … Kim Dot Com/IMP” ….puts him in the right wing camp of the Labour Party
Whatever that means. Could you please be more specific about how that may be a good or bad thing with regard to his vision for Labour, and the policies that he will champion?
If you don’t know what the right wing camp of Labour means, it means the side of the Labour Party which since the 1980s continues to advantage the position and interests of financial capital in the economy, the position of large transnational corporates in the economy, and the ongoing corporatisation of the state, vs that of the bottom 50% of workers and citizens.
I’ve learnt in life that there are rarely people that I can not agree with on some policies, even if I disagree with them on many others. I could not stand Robert Muldoon. I thought he was obnoxious, bigoted and vile. He attacked sectional interest groups one at a time. He split the country over the Springbok tour. He was an economic nincompoop. And yet for his true interest in doing something personal about gangs, and for his decision to ignore official advice in the Arthur Thomas injustice, I admire his actions.
I’ve also learnt to distrust labels. Your basic argument against Little is
(1) Right wing Camp is bad
(2) Little is in Right Wing Camp
(3) Hey Presto. Little is bad
Your label is totally unhelpful.
So I will ask again. And emphasise the word ‘specific’ this time.
Could you please be more specific about how that may be a good or bad thing with regard to his vision for Labour, and the policies that he will champion?
Smearing Little by labelling him “right wing” is Whaleoil 101. I’m more interested in the specific policies that you disagree with, and evidence that Little supports those policies.
For f, sake, we cannot blame Little for supposed events over the last 35 years!
What the f. has Little said that will advantage the position and interests of financial capital in the economy?
What the f. has Little said that will advantage the position of large transnational corporates in the economy?
Cut the Whaleoil smears out. Put up a little evidence. With those specifics you may have a small hope of convincing somebody. There is a 50/50 chance that I may even agree with you on some or all of them.
But condescending smears that others may not know what the right wing camp of Labour means, followed by a ‘definition’ of what “right wing” is, that basically means nothing with regard to the views of Little, without evidence, deserves ridicule. Is this the sort of stuff that went on in Dunedin?
ALL of the candidates will have some very sound reasons why they would make a good leader. I’ll vote after I have heard them all. And whether they are a “North or South” candidate, I’ll be more interested in how the candidates can use internal differences of style, to the benefit of Labour, rather than see those differences as requiring amputation from an already weak body.
I m a 43 year old white blue collar worker if labour can’t appeal to people like me they have no chance. As far as kdc goes he was a light weight in a heavy weight fight ie talked a big fight but had no knockout punch.
I completely disagreed with Little’s put down of Kim Dot Com/IMP.
Do you have a reference for that? I will probably agree with you.
I have a warm spot for both the Mana and Internet Parties. I do wish that Dotcom was not on the bench at the “Moment of Truth”, with his distracting laughs, but otherwise it was not him that sabotaged the IMP vote …. that responsibility rests with both the National and Labour parties.
That Dotcom supported the policies of Mana, should be sufficient for sufficient for all current Opposition Parties not to slag him off. He could have been a useful friend.
And look where they both are now… holding down very important positions. Shearer also relegated all Cunliffe’s supporters to the back bench. I call that petty spite.
I agree with this too, Karen. I have the feeling that David Cunliffe hasn’t “joined the club” and has a wider perspective than those of the caucus who think that the membership are out of touch. Sure, we members are not totally conversant with all the nuts and bolts of Parliament but we sure as hell know what we stand for. We are not prepared to compromise on social justice just to make our party more attractive to a few fickle voters when we have thousands of non-voters who are disengaged because they don’t see a party that inspires them to vote.
Well said, Karen. All of this stuff fills me with mistrust. While these people allegedly “don’t like” or “don’t have confidence” in Cunliffe, I feel as if both policy and utterances are being pitched over our heads to ‘more important people,’ and that the task is to try and win us over to whatever the ‘more important people’ would like, which does not include Cunliffe, or anyone else that the ‘more important people’ feel the need to screw over. The general damning of the IMP has the same tone. “No, no, it’s OK More Important People, we’re definitely not going there.” I really don’t like it, and am getting close to the end of my tether with the Labour Party.
In future I think we should refer to them as MIPs. (More Important People). Or of you like… the spim.
Who shall we include? Well, the MSM of course are more important than us – especially the Beltway boys and girls. Then there are the top civil servants – people like the States Services Commissioner (Rennie is it?) They’re so important. Throw in the big corporate types who ladle out the dosh – they’re very important. And special mention must go to the Police Commissioner (and understudies) and the Security heads – oh God, they’re so much more important than us. And that’s not even starting on the off-shore Dads and Mums…
In fact when you think about it EVERYBODY is more important than us. (deep sarcasm)
Thanks for listing them Anne – I am never sure who they are, I just notice MP’s responding to some ‘them’ or other more than to us – in the same way as you know that a guy running down the street with a scared look on his face is running away from some scary thing, even though you don’t know exactly what scary thing.
When fury rules the day as it has done for me since I read Dirty Politics then if you can dredge up a bit of humour… it always helps.
I’m sure the above list are all Beltway Cocktail Circuit regulars (the BCCs) and when you throw in the senior diplomats from all over the place then you have a large room full of MIPs. The MPs – especially the old hands – love mixing with them. It makes them feel ever so important. 🙄
The reason why is because Cunliffe is supported by the members which means that the Labour caucus may actually have to start listening to those members rather than their buddies in the corporate world.
I would love a proper explanation from the ABC MPs as to exactly what their problem with DC is. Why he is apparently so bad they have ripped the Labour Party apart and ground it into the dust just to pursue their vendetta against him.
They’ve never had any issue with trashing him publicly before, so why not just come out and tell us?
Open invitation here to Trevor Mallard, Phil Goff, Annette King, Clayton Cosgrove, Chris Hipkins, David Shearer, Jacinda Ardern and Kris Faafoi – get some balls, get out of the shadows and explain yourselves.
Often issues of Leadership are. Petty grievances should be the easiest a true leader could fix. If they are indeed petty, it is probably a larger black mark against Cunliffe ability to lead.
Yes there are issues that Cunliffe needs to fix up in terms of the operation and leadership of both office and caucus. But these are all FIXABLE issues in terms of skills, behaviour, leadership paradigms and getting the right people in.
This discussion thread has been excellent in terms of identifying that the Labour caucus’ beef with Cunliffe seems quite mysterious and deserves serious explanation.
Why didn’t he? Simple – because this was his first time at Leader and it was a bloody steep learning curve on the job. He spent months trying to sort out the Leaders Office and then he was straight into the campaign.
Why is that difficult to understand. The main point is – Cunliffe is an outstanding leader for the party – as long as he recognises what needs to be done differently now, and what he needs to do differently.
If the caucus won’t tell the true leader what the petty problems are, but tell him everything is hunky dory, they are not easy to fix. I’d also make the point that it is very hard to satisfy petty egotists whatever you do, and there is no shortage of these in the Labour caucus.
It’s an election process now. There is no responsibility for voters to provide any reason why they choose a particular candidate. It will be the responsibility of all four (5?) candidates to convince the voters to place their vote with them.
I think it comes down to plain self-serving ambition and/or self preservation. As an enthusiastic supporter of Cunliffe from day one, I nevertheless am disappointed in his apparent inablility to stare them down like Helen Clark did in the 90s. I may be wrong but my impression is that Cunliffe gave in to them which is ironic given the policy planks which played a significant part in Labour’s defeat initially came from that section of caucus!
They are in such strong denial, they can’t see the role they played in destabilising Labour and allowing ‘Dirty Politics’ to do the rest.
Well said. If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months.
If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months
He might look lonely on the front bench by himself?
Cunliffe showed is compromising accomodating side and the ABCs ran over it with a truck. Does Cunliffe have what it takes to show another leadership style as it is required? He needs to if he is going to do what it takes to be the right PM in very difficult times.
Cunliffe has every chance of convincing the voters to re-elect him Leader. To do so, he will need to convince them that he has identified all the errors that we should have known in foresight, and all the errors we now know in hindsight. And how he is going to carry on doing all the good things he did, and not do those things that are now seen in error.
Perhaps the last paragraph is too complicated. Instead of fixing it up, I’ll paraphrase. Cunliffe is redeemable. It’s up to him.
The “disloyalty” is now answered. Parker will be a candidate.
The ‘disloyal’ tag was always unfair. Any comment that could be construed as ‘disloyal’ was made after the election.
Seems to me that silencing debate (“shut up”) is the wrong approach. If there is a TRUE desire to talk through ALL the issues. This is the one chance when a full and frank exchange of views can be understood to be more about getting the right candidate, than about expectations of ‘loyalty’. It’s quite impossible to be loyal to all four candidates, when there is only one vote to give.
I think the President of the Labour party has said no talking about the candidates during the campaign or addressing things through the media.
I am going with that. It is never helpful when Labour is open about internal divisions in public. They open themselves up to being criticized for a lack of unity.
Mr Parkers comments after the election, when he knew DC would be standing again for leader, were completely unhelpful and against what the party president requested we do. If Mr C is re-elected then Parker has ensured the Nats can be unrelenting in their cries of “Labour Caucus is divided”.
Whatever caucuses opinion is of their leader carries very little weight with me. As a paid up member, I claim the right to come to my own decision.
David Parker’s comments preceded the President’s request.
Regardless, an election by itself shows that there will be four (or 5?) possible “divisions”. The election is “unhelpful”?
We can all pretend or we can be honest.
I see all this not as major divisions, but about 4 or 5 extremely capable people all dedicated to a Party that they are willing to lead. Of course John Key will say that the “Labour Caucus is divided”, or “Labour is committing suicide, or whatever. That’s politics. What John Key says about Labour will only be just another sledge that he adds to every one of his sentences, that he is “quite relaxed about” at the end of the day.
Well said. The stupid cocky caucus should realise that it is the members of the party that put them up as candidates and helped elect/select them in the first place!
A strong front line keeps the attack at bay, (being undermined). I reckon that when Cunliffe has a loyal deputy he will GROW in confidence and he will perform to his potential.
@10.5 I mentioned Cunliffe as leader and Little as deputy; little could unite caucus. Little as deputy and McCarten as chief of staff would work very well together. This duo would be loyal to Cunliffe as leader. A weekly chat with leader to sort out the disenchanted in caucus would not go amiss.
Agreed Karen. And further is the constant “attacks” from the ABCs yet to date I do not know any specifics which supports that. Everyone knows yet cannot point to what. I like Trevor and do not understand how or why he would be “underming” DC or anyone else.
How was Cunliffe’s “Sorry for being a man” supposedly taken out of context, exactly?
I think this statement was one of the most serious examples of Cunliffe assisting National in the election campaign. I’m sure he won many votes from the statement, especially the audience he was talking to. But for every vote he won, I expect he would have lost a dozen.
I hope the Labour review of the election considers this issue seriously, to determine how much of a problem it actually was.
From a conversation from a young female voter today, from a family with strong Labour voting history. “I had no idea why I would want to vote Labour. I didn’t know what they stood for. Cunliffe was a wet rag. He couldn’t get his message across in the debates with Key. How could he possibly run the country”
What Labour needed at the time, was some serious attention being placed on promoting a vision for the Party, and providing voters with a reason why they would like to support the Party. That did not happen, which remains an indictment on both Cunliffe and his election advisors. There was more of an appearance of trawling for votes from sectional interest groups.
I kind of agree with the assessment of the debates. While comments here were largely of the opinion that Cunliffe “won” the debates, the real conclusion is more complicated. If we are talking about a debate, then the comments that Cunliffe “won” may be correct. But ‘winning a debate’ and ‘providing a message for voters to choose Labour’ are two completely different beasts. It’s like winning the battle, at the expense of losing the war.
Cunliffe was chosen, almost solely because he was seen to be the one person capable of winning the anticipated debates with the masterful John Key. Nobody else could do it. (I say almost, because there is no denying that Cunliffe is highly intelligent, and a charming person on a face to face level) But now (in hindsight) I have come to the conclusion that far too much was made of the need to ‘win’ the debates with Key. That is a media construction that does not have to be followed. I am coming around to the proposition that a Leader such as Little (and possibly Robertson) could ignore the media’s demand that the media treat the debates like a prize boxing match – and ignore the temptation to score “smart” points off John Key, and simply do what they can do best – return to the Labour vision again and again and again, – and show how key policies will meet that agenda.
I think that Cunliffe won his ‘wet rag’ tag, with comments like his “sorry’ comment. There is probably only one way that he could regain my respect …. and that is by calling for a Commission of Inquiry into the injustice that has been done to Peter Ellis. Surely something can be done about this stain on our justice system while Peter Ellis is still alive?
Mr Botany B the main problem with Mr C’s sorry about being a man is how the msm spun it……………….. the main reason why Labour lost was the unrelenting campaign of negatively and spin agaisn’t DC.
Just consider this if the media had of reverse the positive spin on Key and applied it to Cunliffe and vica a versa, who would have won the election. IMHO Cunliffe and Labour.
Boldsirbrian I agree with you so far as the debates being a media construct that do little to explain Labour’s vision. Unfortunately the media are not interested in Labour’s vision, so it is almost impossible to get MSM coverage for anything except a quick response when something controversial has happened.
Labour did fall down in its advertising campaign, but I don’t know that Cunliffe was to blame for that, and I agree with Andrew Little that there was too much policy for voters to get their heads around.
The “sorry for being a man” was taken out of context. I had a listen to the whole speech online at the time and it actually inspired me to volunteer for the Labour Party this election. At that same meeting Paula Bennet evidently played on her phone through all the speeches – why wasn’t that reported in the MSM?
At that same meeting Paula Bennet evidently played on her phone through all the speeches – why wasn’t that reported in the MSM?
That’s interesting Karen. Remember in 2008 Helen Clark was seen checking her cell phone for messages (once) while seated in an audience at some function or another?
The video was played over and over again and the meme was: she had committed a very serious offence. Dirty Politics started years ago…
I am struggling to work out what context could ever justify such a ludicrous apology. No use blaming this one on the MSM
Perhaps he will address the subject in his electioneering.
I’ll repeat that it is really important that Labour get on top of this one in the Labour review. There are obviously people like you Karen, who were ‘inspired’ by an unnecessary put down of men. My anecdotal experience, found that the predominant response (from men especially) was the worst reaction that a politician could receive: being mocked.
So we (You and I, Karen) are firmly in two camps. Was the comment helpful or not for Labour?. If it was unhelpful, can we blame the media as ankerawshark suggests; or would the right ‘context’ somehow make it ok? Perhaps the Labour Party have far too few women supporters, and are willing to sacrifice a proportion of an abundance of male members, for women who may be inspired?
The answer is important. Perhaps Labour already know from their internal polling. And if I am wrong in thinking that the comment was overwhelmingly more detrimental than beneficial, I’ll eat humble pie, at the same time as I hand in my membership. A Party that supports such a comment, is not one that I personally wish to remain with.
I can imagine that if gay bashing were still common, and Cunliffe said he was sorry for being hetero, Robertson would join the chorus against him. I thought the way Cunliffe said that was a bit silly, but once he had spoken, caucus should have stood behind him. All of them, even the women, repeating “I’m sorry for being a man too” and explaining what it meant would have been far better than what they did.
Just a reminder – still time to plan to get there.
The 2014 Bruce Jesson Lecture
Mike Joy – Paradise Squandered; New Zealand’s Environmental Asset Stripping
Wednesday 15 October, 6.30pm
Maidment Theatre
Alfred Street
The University of Auckland
The Maidment Bar will open from 5.30pm
New Zealand’s lakes, rivers and most of our groundwater are in a critical state. Decades of misguided regulation and a free-for-all on diffuse pollution have encouraged agricultural intensification and driven our increasing reliance on imported feed and fertiliser.
The inevitable consequences have been devastating environmental impacts as well as increasing economic and biosecurity risks.
The solutions are many but require a paradigm shift; a move away from dependence on imported feed and fertiliser to keeping nutrients on farm and adding value to products, and strong leadership to move away from short-term thinking that accepts the massive ecological debt we are running up.
Mike Joy MSc(Hons), PhD in Ecology is a Senior Lecturer in Ecology and Environmental Science at the Ecology Group-Institute of Agriculture and Environment, Massey University, Palmerston North. He has received a number of awards, including the Ecology in Action award from the New Zealand Ecological Society; an Old Blue award from the Royal Forest and Bird protection Society; Environmental New Zealander of the Year from North and South magazine and the Manawatu Evening Standard Person of the Year.
Presented by Politics and International Relations and the Bruce Jesson Foundation
Euthanasia – the right to die with dignity. Will we people ever get these political nitwits who supposedly are the cream of the crop to represent our opinions and needs in parliament and have them facilitated? We need them there to actually listen and devise strategies so that we maintain the standards we aspire to for human beings, but have more control of our own lives. While we have a bunch of sharp dealers, money mad and aspirational for their own comfort, the chances are against thoughtful and well-planned policy being passed. But I could be wrong eh!
http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/cancer-patient-chooses-death-on-own-terms-2014100920
In the USA. Last night, a story from the United States captured the attention of millions last night on Facebook.
The video of American woman Brittany Maynard has been watched by more than a million people – she has chosen the day she will die.
Ms Maynard has a terminal illness, but rather than spend her last months suffering, she’s moved her family to Oregon, one of just five US states that allows terminal patients to choose euthanasia.
She has chosen November 1 – two days after her husband’s birthday.
In Australia one of the states had police raiding people’s houses looking for the good drug that people had obtained and put aside ready for when they decide to pass away after they have done everything, got organised and feel content to accept death. But no this personal moment must be degraded by venal politicians, interfering medicos, religious dictators, and acts of aggression by the state. Disappointing, disgraceful.
We put of pets down when we know they are in pain and it’s the right thing to do. But rather our loved one suffer in pain. I put it down to the high religious influence in NZ.
@ Skinny
I think it’s a following of rote spiritual and ethical learning without much intellectual thought. And not wishing to face the reality of a situation, and being resigned about things. People say oh well, that’s how it is, at the end of the day we can’t help it happening, it’s nature isn’t it and other anodyne phrases.
(And here are some synonyms that I think also apply to a large number of NZs. –
bland, inoffensive, innocuous, neutral, unobjectionable, unexceptionable, unremarkable, commonplace, dull, tedious, run-of-the-mill.)
They are good people for sure, but rarely spark enough to think and act to make changes, or get something radically different. Lack of that spark makes us easy to push around, and accepting of everything, and we sure don’t like any offering of criticism or advice.)
“They are good people for sure……..” (agreed) – good, lazy, laid back, complacent, anodyne (as you say – good word), disinterested, disengaged.
A big societal change, which isn’t surprising after 30 years of neoliberalism.
We like to think of ourselves as compassionate, caring, concerned, etc., however I’ve begun to question that. We are when it comes to all being in the same waka (such as at times of natural disasters), or when shit hitting a fan becomes widespread.
Otherwise I’ve come to realise we’re actually no more compassionate or engaged, or concerned for the welfare of others, or community than many places elsewhere. (If we were, there’d have been a bigger turnout on election day).
Can you imagine (for example), most of the population of a small/average town/village volunteering at polio clinics, taking in homeless, feeding the homeless here in NZ? I can’t! At one time I could have.
It’s a self-congratulatory, but a completely fukd idea of the reality. It’s not surprising though when a good many of the aging boomers have reached their comfort zone and naturally want to preserve it, and when subsequent generations have grown up knowing, AND EXPERIENCING nothing other than the rise of individualism, greed is good, the commodification of all and everything.
Given the Koiwoi laid beck ettitude, its the easy option – that is until it all turns to shit. (Fear not though – we have an oikon to lead us all thru’ it by the name of Yavridge Bloke Honist John).
This is not the NZ I knew – and strangely enough its not even the NZ my 30ish yo kids knew – and its becoming a NZ I no longer want to know.
That sounds a bit defeatist – it’s not. I just don’t particularly want to be around when that muddle class awaken (and as someone elsewhere in here noted re the Muldoon era where you couldn;t find anyone that admitted voting for the prick).
The more this neo-liberal, selfish, greed-driven, no-such-thing-as-sussoighty, self perpetuating – but also – self-defeating nightmare goes on, the nastier the outcome is likely to be.
And it’s not just sleepy fucking Hobbits that need to wake up, but the NZ Labour Party as well
:h1
/endrave
:h2
/back to planning escape
:h3
/reminder to send a sympathy card to NZ Labour when they don’t get their shit together
Still are Tim
Good to hear you are still hanging on there. It’s amazing how 30 years can wipe out so much good principle and belief about what the spirit of our country was. And its hard to realise that though some of it was impatience with ferry workers and others going on too many strikes, and some ingrained efficiencies that needed checking, a lot of it was just snobbery as seen in the rude words about guys going to work in cardigans their wives had knitted etc. We were relatively self suffficient then and appreciated quality, and hand knitted wool. Now it is appearance imported polyester jackets. We like the look of the beautiful Easter egg, covered with foil but empty inside.
And we still have Labour losing the election because they are too stolid to find their way round a corner. A boot in the bum is what they needed. Strategic standing using MMP tactics as National does. Not quite in the spirit but still not outlandish except from Labour’s imagination. Why not call in some Standardistas as a focus group? There is always pollitics stew simmering here. Something hot and tasty would have been served up for their consideration.
And now David Parker is presenting the same stolid face that Michael Cullen presented. If Michael had worked out some fancy tax cuts that would have ended up increasing the velocity of money through the economy, and a few extra jobs, and a bit over for Christmas, probably Labour wouldn’t have lost but for his chewing gum called tax deduction. Labour haven’t come out of the last century. And we are already 14 years into the next. WTF.
In a country where we are still riding on Ernest Rutherford’s doings, while cutting down science funding here in favour of giving money to rich people buying things overseas and houses here as the great leap forward, it makes me puke. Do I want to live in such a dumb place. That thinks it is business minded, but can only do a couple of things that were going when we first were colonised, the rest has gone out of our hands to be exploited by cleverer people than us in the main. And the country is losing its soul.
a lot of it was just snobbery as seen in the rude words about guys going to work in cardigans their wives had knitted etc. We were relatively self suffficient then and appreciated quality, and hand knitted wool.
It’s one of the amusing aspects of reading some of the novels that I’ve read where the author goes on about how these fabulous wealthy people with great style all have hand crafted this and polished that. And I recall a few years ago when an upper market car firm had the technicians signing the hand crafted parts of the motors that they made. I kept thinking but the machine made stuff is actually better and then I realised that it was a statement that basically translates to: I’m so rich I can waste peoples time and effort without concern.
DTB
Ever looked through Paul Fussells’s book on Class in the USA? Quite funny how the different classes regard anything from the culture of that income and asperashuns.
Actually signing stuff you made would be good. I wear all this cheap clothing produced by hard working driven people, mostly women from overseas. And sometimes I think about them sitting in lines at their machines. And I think there were exposes one called China Blue? But they have great skills and I try to mentally appeciate those when I remember. Applies to a lot of the things we get these days, when all physical labour is passe’. Even managing money has been mechanised, with computers set to buy and sell when certain monetary points are reached.
And something just recently has been produced that takes away jobs in favour of mechanisation. Those of us who still respect humanity and care about our society have to group together.
WH Auden –
We must love one another or die”
and Benjamin Franklin
“We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
“We put of pets down when we know they are in pain and it’s the right thing to do. But rather our loved one suffer in pain. I put it down to the high religious influence in NZ.”
AFAIK most people support euthanasia in principle so I think the hold up in legislation is more likely to be that we haven’t yet solved the issues around coersion and the overlap with suicide. ie it’s ethics that are holding us up. Not insurmountable but not insignificant either.
Do you think the ethics haven’t been talked about? The work is too hard that’s the trouble. It takes time away from giving largesse to the wealthy (friends) or dealing criminals who can’t be let off and have to be punished somehow (enemies) and the business of dealing with the broad mass of people is approached reluctantly.
All the problems could be solved by going into select committee, asking for input from regions open to interested people, not just the ossified. Then listening to limited time submissions where they have to stick to facts, not gerrymander on their opinions and beliefs.
Of course ethics have been talked about, but not across the population publicly. We probably need a dedicated period of time of taking the issue to the public, lots of media attention, time for an in depth look, talking to a range of people, medical, ethical, care givers, patients, families etc. By issue, I mean the legislation and the practicalities. That would need a political party to spearhead it – can’t see that being done at the moment, so that leaves lobbying until it gains momentum.
Myself, I wouldn’t be comfortable with this being handed over to a select committee process without the above happening, esp with the current govt.
If you want parties to support it, you have to get the population on board too. I think most people support euthanasia in principle, but haven’t yet been presented with the details of how it would work in practice.
True. The public never get a chance to get their teeth, so to speak, into the various concerns. When it is discussed there will be someone from the hospice service that rubbishes it, someone from religion who doesn’t countenance it, someone who has had an experience of need who supports it and the whole matter is left floating.
In general the public need to have the chance to discuss legislation, a group in each town who sort of monitors what’s going on, is informed and thoughtful, necessarily of course. And particularly with important matters like this. Also with some of the practices being adopted for prisoners, that go against the better standards of human behaviour that we have espoused in modern times.
The last thing I listened to (a while ago) was a hospice nurse who basically said that everyone with a terminal illness can have a good death experience with the right support. Vested interests I guess (as in she believes in her profession, but I suspect there were religious believes too).
I haven’t gone looking, but I’ve not seen good discussion about the practicalities of protecting vulnerable people. To my mind that’s going to be the stumbling block and is the thing that needs to get into the public for dicussion. Once that’s resolved many people’s hesitations will go away.
Re religion, where the mainstream ones stand on this? I assume the Catholics are against it, what about the Anglicans and Presbyterians? The Buddhists would be great to have involved, all that preparing for how one dies.
andrew murray 3.55 pm
You are underestimating the human complexities involved in dying. If it was to be just as quick and straightforward as you think it ought to be, there would be a lot more suicide jumping off cliffs into the sea. But that creates problems, concerns, what if you don’t die straight away and endure agony for ages, not really the imagined end. And then people’s lives may be put at risk while they search for you, because it’s not tidy for a country to have people going off and dying in unknown places, even if they never cared two hoots about you while alive.
Then there are the people around, in the area, very sad to have people committing suicide near your place. If you die on your own, who finds you, who buries you, who ties up the ends of your life? So there are the people who want to know where the body is, the people who actually grieve, the people who want to inherit but can’t until the body is found or seven years gone, or can’t claim a widow’s, single benefit etc. Your bones and bits will be gathered up and given a cremation probably, who pays for that – the people. And some sort of marker for your remains to give respect to your being. And an entry to be put in the records that you came, you saw, and you conked out!
Suicide can be an incredibly selfish thoughtless thing to do. If children are left, what a burden to bear. Why, and do they blame the other parent and so on. If choosing euthanasia, there is often some plan, others would be involved. We aren’t islands, the last person in our world. There are things to be thought about, things that you should do before you leave the world that has nurtured you, even if to one’s mind not well. What is needed is a planned procedure, not an exhaustive one, but so the person can go with a clear path, satisfied to have finished and be done. And perhaps with a resigned and loving smile and kiss. Then it would be a good death to have.
edited
I believe Andrew Little’s candidacy will derail David Cunliffe’s attempt to stay as leader. Eventually, DC will have to withdraw, which will make easier for Grant Robertson to win.
The next few weeks should be watched with interest by the membership.
Sounded to me like he just announced his resignation from caucus will probably be forthcoming post-leadership contest. (Unless he or Parker are leader that is)
Anyone around here still want to say that Shearer is an honest, compassionate, wise and intelligent man who went into politics in order to serve unselfishly for the benefit of others less fortunate than himself, after watching that?
As opposed to…….
Labour is in the shape that it is precisely because Labour’s front bench doesn’t know better. Labour’s caucus has a shockingly dysfunctional and toxic organisational culture.
Terrorism can never be defeated by military means alone. But how do you go about negotiating with people who have blood on their hands? Britain’s chief broker of the Northern Ireland peace deal explains how it can – and must – be done (for a start, always shake hands)
[…]
Above all, what these experiences demonstrate is that there isn’t really an alternative to talking to the terrorists if you want the conflict to end. Hugh Orde, the former chief constable in Northern Ireland, rightly says, “There is no example that I know of, of terrorism being policed out” – or fully defeated by physical force – anywhere in the world. Petraeus said that it was clear in Iraq that “we would not be able to kill or capture our way out of the industrial-strength insurgency that was tearing apart the very fabric of Iraqi society”. If you can’t kill them all, then sooner or later you come back to the same point, and it is a question of when, not whether, you talk. If there is a political cause then there has to be a political solution.
defeating terrorism and insurgencies is thousand year old knowledge. It starts with not screwing over the ordinary people who are their support base, and bringing that support base closer to you, to push for a more moderate approach.
Unless it turns out that the terrorism and insurgency is politically useful to you for other reasons of course. In that case, you would just fuel it by killing tribal families and civilians on a daily basis to grow the hate of the ordinary people against your forces, and drive up recruitment and sympathy for terrorist/insurgency forces.
One problem is that so many in the military believe that they can win. They just need to apply a little more force. Vietnam, Northern Ireland, and Gaza are all examples of this. They remind me of ACT idiots who blame the GCP on lack of doctrinal purity.
I would like each of the candidates for the LP leadership to answer the following questions. Please feel free to improve the quality of the questions and add some more.
1. What if anything, in your opinion, was wrong about the direction of Labour policies in the last election?
2. What changes would you personally like to see in the general direction of Labour policy?
3. If you are voted in as leader and the membership and the caucus insists the party should move in the opposite direction to that which you support, how will you cope with this?
4. If you are not voted in as leader and the agreed party policy moves in the opposite direction to your wishes, then are you able to unreservedly support the party line and its leader?
5. Who do you believe should determine the direction of the party- the leader (together with caucus) or the total membership?
6. What are your views on the way in which the TPPA and the deep sea drilling issues should be handled?
7. What are your views on the way controversial policies such as the increase in the age of eligibility of superannuation should be handled?
8. It is obvious that Labour would need to form a coalition to be in Government. Using the hindsight of the recent election, how do you think the pre-election relationships between possible coalition partners be optimised to present a stable alternative to the voting public.
good questions, and they should certainly be asked, but overall, policy did not win or lose Labour the election. Being a poor cultural fit with Kiwis and being socially disconnected from the vast majority of Kiwi voters, is what nailed Labour.
(having said that the BS retirement age policy and the badly executed CGT policy messaging were definitely hindrances).
Just since that Parker has thrown his hat in the ring…………..holy moly…………4 candidates.
The vote will be heavily diluted.
IMHO anyone who has criticised DC in public should be out. Not matter how “bad” he is, they should have stfu.
I am thinking of emailing Moira Coastworth to ask what disciplinary action will be taken by the party after D S on the Nation this morning. We were told to shut up about the candidates.
There was an email from Moira Coatsworth. I may have done her/it a dis-service by saying “shut up”.
I can’t remember the exact words, but how I interpreted it was that we shouldn’t bag the candidates and that we are not to express negativity through the media about the candidates.
Oh, that one. That email was even-handed and fine. I didn’t sense anything calling for people to shut-up. It was more of a ‘being mindful’ kind of tone.
Having said that, it is quite interesting to think this through:
(1) Did Parker read that email before or after Moira’s email?
(2) In accordance with good sense and common decency, did Parker cross the line in terms of the letter or even spirit of that statesman(person)ship-like email from Moira?
(3) With regard to the answer in response to (2), whether in the affirmative or negative, such an answer would set the precedence for other caucus or party members to be judged accordingly.
(4) If the answer to (2) is no, then that means it would be quite ok for people to call out, as Parker did, as to who be regarded as “untenable” to be leader.
(5) If the answer to (2) is yes, when will Parker be disciplined?
Stuff has a poll about who you would prefer as the next Labour leader. I think this poll is a bit stupid and the results are highly suspect as it is an open poll for everyone, including Labour’s and Cunliffe’s enemies!
The actual Labour leadership contest that is rightfully open to the Labour members, not to the general public and Labour’s opponents.
For instance, for National, I would ‘prefer’ Aaron Gilmore as their leader…(or may be Maurice W or Judith C or Bhakshi K or….)
The money to help the stricken nations trying to deal with Ebola isn’t rolling in fast enough! And a warning is given that if the pandemic gets out of hand it will badly affect the world’s economy!!
An item on a link – sounds a downer. Our gummint says we need more uni money going into science so we Can GetAhead as a country,.
In USA they in one area have increased grad places from 30,000 to 56,000 but at the same time the projects funded have gone from 30% to 10% or something and a lot of scientists are having to do basic work that PhD should not be doing. They have the credentials, they have the ability but can’t get the work. Crazy old capitalism. Screws you every time. That’s very roughly the gist. Get the real facts from the link. http://io9.com/meet-the-new-underclass-people-with-ph-d-s-in-science-1644006710
It does. The people who produce stuff and actually keep society functioning get screwed over while the people who speculate with money or get interest and dividends from holding money/shares do ever better. The result will be the collapse of society and it appears that’s what most of us want as we vote for the political parties (National, Act, etc) that will bring about that collapse.
I am very lucky to have a permanent position. I wouldn’t advise anyone to aim for a career in science at the moment. You work your guts out to learn about things, gain unique abilities and then have to put up with disrespect from both smarmy gits like Key and conspiracy freaks who get their pseudoscience off youtube. You only get a permanent position if you’re very lucky, and you end up with a huge student loan to pay off.
DTB and Murrayrawshark
That’s how it is eh! So we can’t keep going hoping for better days. This is the end of the Rogernomics trial. And it’s been a failure. We have known for a while but have looked away quickly at NZ lying injured, and passed on our way. Now we have to turn into Good Samaritans and pick up the country, dress the wounds, get it some crutches, and help it move again.
The bible has some good, relevant stories in it, apart from tribes warring and calvinist threats of doom, and skewed ideas retreating as far as you can go from Christianity.
And I don’t go to church regularly now, but might go to Bahai or Quaker. Very sincere.
I can’t stand being preached at now, knowing that the original message and thought has been written down, passed on by some other human, partly digested and brought forward again to the faithful, in altered form. Chinese whispers is like the stuff being preached, the further from the source, the more likely that some dictate or fillip has been added.
It is with heartfelt sadness that my family have heard of the death of Labour Party stalwart Paul Jellicich /Paul was famous for the Labour Picnics he organized and his Lamb spits were famous .
Our thoughts are with his wife Dorothy ,My wife and I have fond memories of you both and are just glad that we enjoyed dinner together just a few weeks ago.
Our love and thoughts are with you Dorothy .
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
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We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
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It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
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1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
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David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
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Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
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Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
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Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
The protest outside the White House correspondents’ dinner hotel. Image: Anatolu video screenshot APR More than two dozen Palestinian journalists had called for a boycott of the dinner, writing an open letter urging their American colleagues not to attend. “You have a unique responsibility to speak truth to power and ...
“Our exporters should, therefore, be deeply concerned that the Fast-track Approvals Bill was not assessed for consistency with any of our free trade commitments prior to being introduced to the House,” says Gary Taylor, Chief Executive of the Environmental ...
NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff is calling on all political parties to support the new Member’s Bill from Labour’s workplace relations and safety spokesperson Camilla Belich MP that would ensure negligent companies are held accountable when their employees ...
A historian with an uncanny track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go very wrong for him. ...
A historian with a track record of predicting US election winners tells RNZ's Sunday Morning that President Biden looks to be on track for another term, but things could still go wrong for him. ...
Ngaio Marsh House is one of Christchurch’s best kept secrets – and contains more than a few mysteries of its own.Trust Ngaio Marsh to leave more than a few mysteries scattered through her house long after her departure. For a start, there’s the curious concrete portal in the garden, ...
Appointment viewing has been lost to the mists of time, but memories of Montana Sunday Theatre can still be conjured by hitting play on a particular piece of classical music. “You’re not going to be able to sell it.” Over 30 years on, Karen Bieleski still recalls how the task ...
Performance Review King Luxon sat behind His massive polished oak desk. It is Performance Review time. There is a knock on the door. “Enter!” says the King. In steps Minister of Disabilities and Carer Pedicures, Penny Simmonds. “I can explain everything …” she begins. “Fine,” says King Luxon, pressing the ...
The pair opened their first fully collaborative exhibition, Nina for Flowers, last Saturday. Gabi Lardies visited their studio to find out who Nina is and what working together was like.‘It didn’t start out like, ‘This is a show about Nina,’” says Josephine Jelicich, gripping a thermos of peppermint tea. ...
Thank you, Dr Maximilian Oskar Bircher-Benner, for your brilliant invention. I’m another mid-20s Kiwi who had an OE last year. I hopped on my bicycle where France meets the Atlantic and cycled east. I pedalled through the Loire Valley, down rivers lined with willows and ancient wisteria-draped chateaus. I relished ...
Asia Pacific Report From France to Australia, university pro-Palestine protests in the United States have now spread to several countries with students pitching on-campus camps. And students at Columbia and other US universities remain defiant as campuses have witnessed the biggest protests since the anti-Vietnam war and anti-apartheid eras in ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)New Zealand Government’s Fast Track legislation. Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government ...
Tara Ward talks to presenter Naomi Toilalo about the new TV show that turns food waste into a three course feast. Naomi Toilalo is standing in the warehouse at Good Neighbour Tauranga, helping unpack the two-and-a-half tonnes of rejected food that will arrive at the community support hub that day. ...
Scout is our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Scout’s human, Avril, for her support. Dog name: Scout (named after the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird – she inherited the independent spirit ...
Megan Alatini takes us through her life in TV, including ‘terrible’ daytime TV, the class of Carol Hirschfeld and her most embarrassing TrueBliss moment. When she responded to a vague newspaper ad asking “do you have what it takes to be a popstar?” 25 years ago, Megan Alatini never guessed ...
A new exhibition in Wellington showcases the faces behind your local goods and services. Back in 1977, when I was a fine arts student at the University of Canterbury, I took a series of photographs of Christchurch shopkeepers. The photos were for a calendar – a project for my end ...
Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
My cousin Dylan and I spotted these big eels under the bridge that summer. We watched them lounging under the dark weed, facing into the flow of water, their mouths frozen open. Dylan and I couldn’t stop thinking about those eels. The night we went down to the creek, we ...
Newsroom, home of satire. My long-running weekly satirical series The Secret Diary has moved to Newsroom and will appear every Saturday, with Victor Billot’s wildly popular satirical Odes continuing to appear every Sunday. Diaries, Odes – while serious political columnists toil at meaningful opinions and stroke their chins to an ...
Tara Ward unravels the many nuanced layers of a cartoon about talking dogs.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. It’s not often an episode of a children’s cartoon has adults sobbing into their sleeves, but that’s exactly what happened this week when ...
Working as a doctor in developing countries to help communities achieve better health outcomes is nothing short of a life goal for Jessica Tater. The University of Otago medical student has her sights firmly set on joining the international humanitarian organisation Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) when she qualifies ...
There’s an island in the far reaches of Auckland’s territory, sitting off the tip of the Coromandel Peninsula, 30 minutes by air from the city or four hours on the slow boat. Aotea Great Barrier is off-grid, it has a population of fewer than a thousand people … and most ...
Asia Pacific Report An Australian author and advocate, Jim Aubrey, today led a national symbolic one minute’s silence to mark the “blood debt” owed to Papuan allies during the Second World War indigenous resistance against the invading Japanese forces. “A promise to most people is a promise,” Aubrey said in ...
Asia Pacific Report The Freedom Flotilla is ready to sail to Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. All the required paperwork has been submitted to the port authority, and the cargo has been loaded and prepared for the humanitarian trip to the besieged enclave. However, organisers received word of an “administrative ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
John Roughan, fan boy for John Key, tells the media they ” can be too precious about its rights.”
Unbelievable. He is a total disgrace to the tradition of a free press.
Just the corporate’s lackey.
Sounds like he’s annoyed Hager spoke to the Guardian.
“It worries me that Hager would write this stuff for an overseas audience, not on account of New Zealand’s reputation – that’s not a journalist’s concern – but from the effect on his readers, which is a journalist’s only concern.”
You mean someone might spill the beans to the world that Planet Key isn’t perfect. Heaven forbid.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11340635
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/new-zealand-elections-dirty-tricks-helped-john-key-win-another-term
@ Paul
John Rough-and? could be very wise Paul. When he says he is worried at “the effect on his readers, which is a journalist’s only concern.” he may be coming from a position supportive of Labour. How?
Well he might know his readers tiny minds very well and have realised how scrambled their ideas would be by these revelations. And that they would stay glued limpet-like or rush back to the safety of National, avoiding Labour like a plague because it was causing them angst and stress. He knew they would never want to take in the whole mess and be forced to examine the very basis of their beliefs in society. They felt unsafe, National was saying it would keep them safe. QED they would vote for National and eschew Labour! And that worried him, how kind. This man is machiavellian.in his understandings.
‘You mean someone might spill the beans to the world that Planet Key isn’t perfect. Heaven forbid.’ It’s not the world that mightily concerned him, it was us voter-sheeple massed in a flock facing the all-seeing-eye dogs, all clustered on the pimple on the bottom of the world, that he was psychoanalysing.
Don’t think Roughan is actually that clever.
I wrote a comment for John suggesting that his rant might have been lifted from the works of Frank of Fiji fame. Everything is good here. Nothing to worry your pretty little heads about.
Whereas many of the Guardians readers will have heard of Greenwald and a few will be aware of Hager, I am sure none will have heard of that fearless journalist John Roughan!
green mayor of wellington (finally!) makes good on her first election campaign pledge to ‘help the homeless’ of wellington..
ed:..wade-brown slept in a sleeping bag..in a cardboard box for the night..
..oh! the humanity..!
..she is such an inspiration..
..and we are told the homeless of wellington wept with gratitude when they heard of this sacrifice/effort made by their ‘caring’ mayor..their ‘leader’..
..cont..
http://whoar.co.nz/2014/green-mayor-of-wellington-finally-makes-good-on-her-first-election-campaign-pledge-to-help-the-homeless-of-wellington/
Aside from paying lip service to the homeless as a reason to bash the greens, again, tell me what do you do, specifically, to assist street sleepers and squash poverty?
i’m not the fucken mayor..with the power to ‘do something’..
(..and especially having promised to ‘do something’..)
..you mindless/simplistic fool…
..and the labour mayor of auckland..len brown..he also made those promises when first campaigning for the job..
..since then..?
..yeah..nah..eh..?
..and it’s a rare day i agree with tau henare about anything..
..but on the panel on nat-rad he let rip at the pile of stinking bullshit that it is when pollies/luvvies ‘sleep rough’ for a nite..
..and in the process pretend to themselves they are ‘doing something’ for the homeless…
..and in the case of people like wade-brown/brown..who actually have in their hands the power to ‘do something’..
..and this is all that they do..?
..that is pretty puke-inducing..
..and a benchmark in mealy-mouthed hypocrisy..
..(and no..i am not commencing a dialogue with you..)
“i’m not the fucken mayor..with the power to ‘do something’..(..and especially having promised to ‘do something’..)”
You could donate to charity, hand out food and warm drinks or give a blanket or clothing. There’s always something can be done by the people, but all you have is the usual puism. Id the issue, slag those in the firing line, yet do nothing to help those in need.
“..you mindless/simplistic fool…”
And yet I’ve shown three ways, in the absence of government will, that you didn’t think of to help the homeless, so simplistic maybe, but mindless is way off… Quelle surprise.
“..(and no..i am not commencing a dialogue with you..)”
You’re funny in a ha ha way sometimes. Not your jokes or caption contest entries, they’re as flat as roadkill, but gems like these crack me up.
Of course you are. All I do is hit the nail on the head and you can’t help yourself.
Chat later. lulz
TA.
Well put Phillip.
One “cause celebre overnighter” with a top quality sleeping bag and a fresh clean cardbard box roughing it for one night is doing nothing for the homeless:
– unless she invited a bunch of her new cardboard box friends to shift into the spare room at her place for a few months
– unless she was being sponsored (ala World Vision 40 hour Famine) to get money to support a shelter
– unless she was announcing more $$$ for the City Mission to help meet the needs of the homeless
Its all about as dopey as Al Gore flying around the world in his private jet to tell folk bout the dangers of global warming
and..”..Its all about as dopey as..’..self-referring ‘greens’ who eat animals..?
..i went to the green party campaign launch in ak..
..and there was one (for me) sobering-moment..
..i was looking down the line of green mp’s all sitting in a row…
..and they were all wearings the skins of dead animals…
..y’know..!…these are the ‘green’/aware members of the parliamentary circus…
Would you rather they had been eaten alive?
“and..”..Its all about as dopey as..’..self-referring ‘greens’ who eat animals..?”
Why is green voters eating meat dopey?
And self referring? What’s that all about?
“..and they were all wearings the skins of dead animals…”
“…these are the ‘green’/aware members of the parliamentary circus…”
And why is it wrong for green mps to wear leather shoes and sheepskin coats?
Having green values isn’t determined by what you eat or wear on your feet. It’s way more advanced than veganism.
I’m picking your societal quirks determine your position and foster the obvious hatred for the greens.
So settle petal, it’s your problem, not theirs.
The Greens would be better focusing on the message outlined in Naomi Klein’s recent book.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/sep/19/this-changes-everything-capitalism-vs-climate-naomi-klein-review
I dont think the Green manifesto is a vegan one Phillip.
Heck if it was, then they would struggle to get to 5% of the vote. Theres many meat eating, milk drinking folk out there who support the Greens sustainability goals but dont plan to give up on their leather shoes anytime soon.
But they might take the bus to the rugby if theres no easy car parking close to the stadium. 🙂
I guess they are “Greens of Convenience”
“..Theres many meat eating, milk drinking folk out there who support the Greens sustainability goals but dont plan to give up on their leather shoes anytime soon…”
..the wade-brown syndrome writ large..?
..a solar-panel and a prius ‘ll do ya..eh..?
..no need for anything else..
..the planet may be frying ‘cos of animal-farming..
..but fuck it..!
..let’s eat an animal now..!
.and do you like my new boots/jacket..?
and ‘greens of convenience’..?
..i think more careerist/opportunism..
..pretty base reasons to be there..really..
Haha, good reply Phillip, but it wont win any debates.
You should differentiate between the “ordinary folk” who recognise that being less wasteful than we were is a good thing (thats the vast majority of people) and those minority few who hold to a higher ideal so go vegan and I guess must wear hemp everythings. And moan about those who dont follow their philosophies
Somewhere in the middle is the Green Party.
Now the Vegans cant change society beyond one person at a time, but a green movement can change a country, altho in smaller steps than the vegans would like.
For the record, we only have 4 V8 cars now (and a couple of 4 cylinder cars too) , but we did install a solar heater on the last home we owned.
so its a big yes to solar power, and a big no to the Prius 🙂
I think it was a good thing that they covered their bodies for the occasion Phillip. 🙂
i’d have preferred strategically placed leaves…
Thanks for calling out Wade-Brown on her shallow self-publicity gig. One fabulously calm Wellington night with a full belly, luxury sleeping bag and, no doubt, loads of security thrown in is nothing but a joke.
As for ‘green Mayor’ label – the only thing that is green about Wade-Brown are the people who think she is. In reality, Wellington’s Mayor, like most of the Council, is bought and sold by the business chamber of commerce and a cartel of property developers.
phillip ure
Hey not so much of the sneer. It is a good and unusual example of dramatising by a leader of the too-often ignored problems out there. If you think she could have done better, could you demonstrate how to her, with your own public protest? Possibly you have a disablement. If you can’t act out, act in and write now to the paper, thank her, and then tell about the difficulties you or your group experience and include a tip how people can do to improve and help you.
i ‘sneer’ at politicians who make promises to help the poorest..
while campaigning..
..and then when elected..do nothing…
..in fact i’d do more than ‘sneer’..
..i’d curse the fuckers…
But is she doing nothing if she is sleeping out?? She has to go up against a good number at Council and in the public who would like to sweep the homeless under a carpet, and then they wouldn’t even provide a carpet. It’s getting enough of backing. making a case that the public will back so you can put pressure on, it’s all ‘political’. Which is a word that key hates, which I think means something that isn’t directly beneficiial to people who are comfortable. Why should they be made even slightly uncomfortable for the benefit of people who they consider subordinate to ‘their’, entitled, life.
This economist Amartya Sen is a Nobel Prize winner – special one for economists.
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/sound-and-vision/amartya-sen-poverty-and-the-tolerance-of-the-intolerable
20/1/2014
Sen took as his title “Poverty and the Tolerance of the Intolerable”. No country in the world, he declared, is “free from poverty”, though in India, the country of his birth, where there is a “massive disparity between the privileged and the rest”, extreme deprivation is particularly deeply entrenched. India, he said, is an example of a country with a large middle class which is able to tolerate, with something approaching equanimity, the serious poverty in its midst.
(Although the situation in India is extreme—Sen referred to the “special nature of the neglect of its poor” —there is no reason for those of us elsewhere in the world, especially the developed world, to be complacent. “Blaming the victims” of poverty, he observed, is as common today as it was in the era of the Poor Law.)
How many times has the Herald told Cunliffe to resign?
Add one more time.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11340638
Herald is so very biased, arrogant and unfair towards Cunliffe. That could alone be reason enough to support him.
10+
The Granny helping National with their Dirty Politics.
And Granny’s little helper inside the Labour Party?
@TheNationTV3
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11340711
Read that instead. It will counteract the feeling the DC resign article will give you.
then actually read this.. from Armstrong ignore his usual starting gloats go lower the later half is an attack on National coming from him.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11340687
Interesting how focused some MSM journos become when they are negatively implicated.
Also very good to see them following up on the Collins-related accusations.
And Jason Ede, and John Key’s involvement in the Lusk-Slater smear machine?
.
@ karol (4.1)
First of all, we have to find Jason Ede (And Cathy Odgers)!
Something is starting to bug me about an aspect of this (and the last) election analysis.
Hager (in the Guardian link from Roughams article) repeats the received truth that those who don’t vote tend to natural left voters and that leaves an accentuated vote for the right.
Here’s my problem.
In elections where turnout is as low as 50%, left parties are winning absolute majorities under a proportional representation system embedded within an overarching neo-classical/liberal environment. (Scotland)
So, the problem cannot be as simple as stated. I’m not contesting that more people in working class areas (left voters) tend to stay at home. But the conclusion – that that necessarily (inevitably?) favours the right – simply isn’t true.
It might be true in NZ though. Because something happens in another country doesn’t mean it’s the equvialent here. There are things about the Scottish situation that have no parallel here (eg the Union and Scottish antipathy for the English). I’m assuming that during the neoliberal revolution in the UK, while Scotland was hit very hard, it didn’t have the same degree of culture shift that NZ had (Scotland had an obvious external enemy whereas NZ took a decade to realise that the enemy was within and then where could we go with that?).
At a guess, have NZ political parties done analysis on polling booths and socio economic status and voting patterns? That would tell something. That National previously liked low voter turnout means something too (although I have a feeling that this election one of the reason for increased turnout was National getting right wingers out to vote, which is part of why this election has been confusing).
Yeah, well, there is no hatred of ‘the English’. So let’s get that out of the way first.
Then there is the fact that I drew attention to similarities, which is somewhat different to claiming things are identical.
Also, I don’t quite buy your ‘external/internal’ enemy framing. Scotland voted for Tony Blair’s Labour Party in British elections.
But in 2011(?) they gave the ‘lefter than Labour’ SNP a majority in the Hollyrood elections on a turnout of approx 50%. The unchallenged contention…it’s almost an article of faith… that the level of the non-vote leads to an increased proportion of votes falling to the right (in the US, in NZ and by logical extension ‘everywhere’if proponents of that view are to be believed) dictates that the Scottish Labour Party should have done well in that election. It didn’t.
Yes and Blair’s invasion of Iraq in 2003 turned many Labour voters towards supporting the SNP and for independence.
Thatcher broke the Tories vote in Scotland and Blair severely damaged Labour’s hold on working class Scots.
I didn’t use the word hatred, nor the word identical. Perhaps you could reread my comment with that in mind and look for the intent rather than focussing on semantics.
edit: your original comment appeared to be saying that because these things are true in Scotland they might be true in NZ. I pointed out that that didn’t follow, and that some pretty significant differences might be the reason.
Weka, all I did was point to a rather obvious counter example that evidently contradicts the current ‘received wisdom’ on the matter.
Whether you prefer to defend current notions, and so accept the obvious flow on effect (ie, the nonsense that suggests either a party must win the center vote by tacking to the right [think: Shearer et al] or get the non-vote out by tacking to the left [think: many of the arguments posited on ‘ts’]) is entirely up to you.
Meanwhile, the results of Scottish elections absolutely demonstrate that tacking left, even within a broader, right leaning, neo-liberal environment does not necessarily mean losing votes to the right from those who are already intending to vote.
Further, it’s an illustrative example of a low voter turnout not having a deleterious effect on the left.
I’m not defending current notions (I have my own critiques of them), I’m challenging your basic premise that the situation in Scotland is pertinent to the situation in NZ. I get the case you are making, but unless you are willing to look at the substantive differences and how they might affect voter turnout and voter preference I can’t see where the discussion can go.
Please stop misinterpreting my comments and ascribing flow on arguments to them that are of your own thinking not mine.
If someone believes that low voter turnout favours the right, and if someone believes that to be true in any and all neo-liberal environments (and there are many people on the left currently ascribing to that view), then it follows that there will be competing views on the left as to whether the center or the non-voter should be chased, with the repercussions vis a vis policy that is inherent to both camps of thought.
On the other hand, if there is an example that could quite reasonably be held to contradict that either/or scenario… and oh fuck!…there is!
If it’s unreasonable to hold it up as an example, then those who think that are free to run through some convincing reasons as to why it should be seen as so unreasonable, by offering substantive examples of dynamics with effects that could be reasonably seen as greater than that of the prevailing ‘truth’ with regards voters/turnout and right wing advantage.
In the absence of any such convincing critique, the Shearers of the world – those who claim modern politics is necessarily all about contesting the center, and therefore about moderate ‘middle of the road’ policies – can be said to be havering on the basis that they’re ignoring really existing examples to the contrary.
The assumption that the SNP is (a) lefter then Labour and (b) drawing it’s voting support from the left of Labour is not supported by the evidence.
Show me the right wing social agenda of the SNP by way of a list of their social policies that demonstrate they are to the right of Labour. Then explain to me how their progressive tax on house sales is right wing; how their blocking of the bedroom tax is right wing; how their historical front footing over the poll tax is right wing; how their opposition to bombing isis is right wing…
Finally, understand that they are not drawing support ‘from the left of’ Labour, but that they are cleaning up Labour’s hitherto solid voting base.
One of the first thing Salmond wanted to do after independence was cut corporation tax.
The fact of the matter is that the SNP, while considerably more left-wing than they used to be, still has a Tartan Tory element to the party. And, in many ways, Salmond was from that Tartan Tory faction. He buddy up with Rupert Murdoch (and apparently Putin did much to restore Russian pride and you’ve got to admire that). He remarked once that Thatcher’s economic policies were okay for Scotland. He considered a welfare benefit cap might be a good idea. Salmond is definitely of the right of the SNP, with a lingering remain of that Tartan Toryness.
The SNP looks far more attractive as a left-wing party with Nicola in charge.
So, I’d be careful with what analogies you draw from the SNP. Because they won their majority with the leadership in the hand of the more centrist faction (Salmond), which would seem to suggest you would advise Labour to go with Shearer or Parker?
Which I don’t think is what you meant at all.
Well, at least you know or suspect that your conclusion is wrong. So is your reasoning.
Yes, the SNP threatened to cut corporation tax post independence – seen as a right wing policy that encourages a race to the bottom as states get pitted against one another to attract business HQ etc.
I guess – and I’m only guessing – that the SNP reckoned they had that balanced with other monies, so that social services wouldn’t suffer, and that they were punting that the overall $ (sic) amount from having more corporate HQs paying less tax would leave the public coffers healthier than if they kept their tax rate on a par with, or above that of England and Wales….as well as leading to greater immigration and so, economic growth…that in itself delivers a higher $ (sic) tax take. Or maybe they should have left their tax rate above that of England and Wales where it’s slated to drop to 20% from 2015?
Anyway…they commit to keeping the NHS in Scotland fully public and free. They commit to retaining free tertiary education. They commit to the retention of state provided old age care. They introduce progressive house taxation. They wanted to introduce a future fund from oil revenue. They aim to cut carbon emissions by 42% by 2020. They want rid of nuclear power and nuclear weapons…and so on and so on.
And all that when the leader is, in your opinion, a Tartan Tory who may have made some lamentable comments and indulged in some dodgy dealings. You imagine, then, what’s in store with Nicola Sturgeon as leader if your interpretation is correct?
They didn’t show up at Westminster for key votes on the bedroom tax! & their economic policy in the case of independence was basically a cross between Ireland’s low tax “Celtic Tiger” (before that went south) and the Nordic resource extraction economies – it wasn’t very “left wing”.
I’m not arguing the SNP are right wing exactly, I’m saying that if you think they are the “left” in Scotland you are very much oversimplifying.
And it’s not the case that the SNP is “cleaning up” Labour’s base. SNP does well for Holyrood, Labour for Westminister. Scottish voters are reasonably sophisticated and many seem to vote differently between Westminster & Holyrood.
I think the SNP are a component of the left in Scotland. And evidence suggests they are to the left of the Scottish and British Labour Parties.
I dunno about turning up to vote on the bedroom tax, or even if there would have been a point. But there was a point in annulling its impact, which is what they did. Andrew George’s Affordable Homes Bill made it through a second reading vote by 306 to 231, a majority of 75. And 4 of the 6 SNP members did not turn up to vote.
And it’s perfectly understandable that the same person who votes Labour in Westminster elections, votes SNP in Hollyrood elections…Scotland exerts about a 1/10th of the raw voting impact of England and Wales in UK wide elections and there is no way the SNP are taking votes from Labour in England and Wales.
But the more left parties in Scotland (greens, scottish socialist party, snp) are experiencing skyrocketing membership numbers while Labour’s membership is (by Labour’s own admission) stagnant. To put into perspective, the SNP (from a population base of about 5 million) is now the third largest party in UK terms (population base of some 55 or 60 million).
Richard, Pretty Wow from Fran.“The issue is too big to be swept under the carpet by mere politics and a focus on chasing whistleblowers instead of the real issues.”
And so say all of us!
And Richard, Mr Armstrong seems to have developed a post election dose of reality. Funny that?
Wow, the first part of Armstrong’s article is nothing less than an outright ode to how great National and King Key are.
No, it has been embarrassed at getting caught lying to NZ about how far it’s going with it’s spying on NZers.
So Armstrong is suggesting (hoping?) that Key will get away with being held accountable – again.
No they don’t. They really don’t have to be National Lite. In fact, I’d say that their being National Lite is what’s losing them the votes.
Translation: Because it was an initiative of the Māori Party it could safely be ignored by National but Key’s now feeling the pressure to do something.
And about how much National gave to the rich in their last round of tax cuts.
When is the government going to take the decline of small town and rural nz seriously. We don’t all want to live in a stinking traffic jam of a city. I’d like to know if centralization of population is the goal or if its willful blindness because there’s not many votes outside the cities.
You assume they care.
I certainly don’t I’m feely sure they don’t. Just pissed that I’ve worked hard gone with out got a free hold house buy 42 and just had 8% wiped off its value at the stroke of QV’s pen
What do you expect government to do?
Glad you voted for war, BM?
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/10/11/what-have-we-done/
Well, you’ve got to do your bit.
Part of being involved in the international community, ISIS are scum and need to be exterminated,
But the US armed and trained many of the people in ISIS.
They and are probably still providing support to the parts of ISIS attacking and destabilising the Assad government. Further US actions and support for the Shia Baghdad Govt has given Sunni regions north of Baghdad political, social and tribal reasons to support ISIS.
@ colonial..
..you seem to be expecting logic/rational thought from bm…
..good luck with that..eh..?
so we need to exterminate the “muslim scum”
because they think we are “non muslim scum” that must be exterminated
and you think thats going to work out well for anybody ?
I know people who as they get older have moved because the hospital systems have been downgraded in rural towns. More work to encourge business to small town Nz.
Do people in small towns lack the ability to create work?
This may come as a shock, but there’s no such thing as the Ministry for Jobs.
Some public servant isn’t going to suddenly turn up and announce “Hey everybody, here’s a pile of jobs”.
If people want work, they’re going to have to get off their chuff and find it themselves.
Employment creates employment so when government pulls jobs out of a area the Ohura prison being a example and the slow death of rail being another it has a knock on effect in the community.
Basically, but let’s put it more directly than this. Spending into a community creates jobs. The private sector won’t spend into communities. So if the government wants to sort out unemployment in provincial communities, it must spend into them.
The corollary of this is that BM is lying through his teeth when he says Government cannot turn up and announce a pile of jobs. Government of course can, has and done so very effectively in NZ’s past.
Why should government turn up and say here’s a pile of jobs.
All that means is that the NZ taxpayer has to subsidize whatever small town which was lucky enough to hit the jobs jackpot.
Facts are most of these small towns only exist because of industry that sprouted up within that area.
Once the industry goes, the town dies, it’s a phenomenon which happens world wide.
People have to except that.
Why do we have to except it pure capitalism do’s not appear to work if we carry on down this track there will be slums in this country in my life time
Then you need to get together with the rest of the folk in whatever small town you live in and get busy.
Only you and the other town folk can turn your small town around
The government will not be riding in on a white horse to save the day.
So if government is not here to solve problems why have them.
Not in neoliberal NZ.
But in countries that don’t follow the Randian cult religion …
@waghorn
Neoliberals don’t believe in society or governments.
Their bible is Atlas Shrugged.
Their messiah John Galt.
The governments job is to keep the country as a whole running and to provide a safe a prosperous environment for the majority of it’s citizens without bankrupting the country.
Problem solving on a micro level is up to the individual/individuals, not the government.
Assuming you are a true believer in the Randian cult an these are your mantras.
There is no alternative.
No is no such thing as society.
Do you watch Fox News?
“Getting busy and getting off your chuff” doesn’t create jobs, BM. Spending into communities creates job.
BM you are still avoiding the core issue – the private sector doesn’t care about declining provincial communities. So the government must. Or as b waghorn says – why have government at all.
Why don’t you believe in the role of government in creating sustainable employment BM? Many rural communities are under serviced with public services. There are jobs which can be created right there.
BM also continues to ignore facts – government has very successfully created industry and economic activity in rural NZ before.
When you are a true believer like BM, no amount of evidence can be used.
His views are faith based.
This is utterly false, especially when thousands, tens of thousands of people are in the same societal circumstances.
It is up to government to identify the needs of its citizens and to provide services and support to each one.
Government has more than enough money to do so, and the country certainly has unused resources that it can employ to deliver this support and services.
That’s easy – can foreign investment/ownership, can the private banks creating money and have the government create and spend money into the economy. Do that and it would be impossible for the country to go bankrupt.
Of course, the banksters won’t like that as it stops them from becoming the new aristocrats.
Answer to b waghorn @8.45 am
“Employment creates employment so when government pulls jobs out of a area the Ohura prison being a example and the slow death of rail being another it has a knock on effect in the community.”
So true, Many years ago I use to call on a couple of clients in Ohura.
Use to arrive about lunchtime. have lunch in the cafe next to the supermarket call on the garage and fill the car, have a short break walk up the road and have a look in the shops etc. before driving on to Stratford.
Last Feb we had a photographic trip down that way, the first time for over 20 years. We saw one ghost town after another. Ohura there is nothing, no shops and the garage is now a second hand shop. All the little settlements have gone.
Sad really as these were vibrant communities.
Don’t take any notice of BM. He’s one of Whalespew’s fanboys and his full name is Bloody Moron. All he can do is spout slogans,
I stayed in Ohura for four months. Most of it, apart from where I stayed, seemed to be quite nice. It’s a shame that it’s died.
@ b waghorn
We are blindly following USA. I have forgotten how many large cities and ports have registered as bankrupt or similar there. It was unheard of once but no longer. It’s dismissed as just the business cycle moving on. Businesses become defunct new ones rise, it’s a cleansing, renewing process, sort of like a natural season, spring following winter. Remember Clint and Michael Moore’s film.
Using intellect, running a whole-of-country economic plan, is anathema to NACTS. Douglas still is nostalgic about his great leap forward if only all his plan could be put in place. He is not satisfied with the harm he has already caused. There were some good things but they don’t happen to have been good for most people. This is a seagull economy. All the big birds are watching for the advantage, when there’s a crust they all swoop down but the most aggressive get there first. The aggressive losers stick out their bills, and run at the others to keep their distance. And the little birds clean up the crumbs in the few seconds the others are away fighting over the crust. And when the gulls have finished they fly over your head and poop on your shoulder.
Part of the problem for places like Taumarunui were I am is that we are in a large area dominated buy farmers who vote nats know matter what. So we can be taken for granted buy them and ignored buy the rest. Small town nz has no power.
Can a group of you get together to support getting someone on the local council or the community council. Between planning giant dams and planning coastal subdivisions and mining there might be a space to fit in something human sized and helpful to the general public. And you introduce the policy. It might take a few years to get through!
Su Bradford tweeted she is on TV3’s The Nation’s panel this morning ” responding to Key, Labour i/views etc”
Good to see The Nation is using one or two truly left wing commentators.
I hope she rubs sore loser Hone’s nose in it. Bradford was never taken seriously by Mana. Her stance against the Internet/Mana hook up should have been better listened too. Unfortunately Hone was too thick.
I agreed with Bradford when the IMP was initiated.
One of her main arguments, as I recall, was that it takes time to build a party and a movement, and that IMP would interfere with the building and focus that had already gone on in/with Mana.
I hope that Bradford is way more sensible and forward thinking than attempting to, as you put it, “rub sore losers Hone’s nose in it.” I don’t see that approach as being in any way helpful.
Mana can still continue with the building and focus it has had over the last few years. NZ needs such a Mana Party.
+ 1 Karol
I am sure that Sue still has a lot of respect for Hone, and she is not the type to gloat. Mana and Hone both have a future in NZ politics I hope.
I would have liked her to show political wisdom after her years at it, and shut her gob before not after the election. Then was the time to quietly slide out if she didn’t like it but with discretion, not mouth.
maybe she will tell us why she was initially so opposed to the very idea..
..i never heard any actual reasons beyond objections to dotcom being rich..
..and having lived an extravagant lifestyle..
..and of course..her having pulled the/her crew of experienced activists from the ensuing (amateur-clusterfuck) campaign..
..was not without its’ own negative effects/outcome..on that campaign..
..i wonder if she will accept her own soupcon of responsibility for the ensuing defeat..?
..but really.i wd like to hear what were those original virulent objections based on..?
@ skinny..
..having seen bradfords’ interaction with the party..
..i can tell you that yr claim that she ‘was never taken seriously by Mana’..
..is a pile of fresh/steaming horse-shit…
As someone who once helped write one of their policy’s I say you are smoking too much bob hope!
Mana is/was a dictatorship with the leader having the final say.
Too much, or not enough, but deffo one of the two.
Except that Mana increased their party vote by 10,000 this election.
Sue making her stance so publicly didn’t help anyone. My impression of Hone is that he was one of the more intelligent MPs. You don’t have to be thick to make a mistake.
A moment of hypocrisy from Kim Hill mars an excellent interview
Radio New Zealand National, Saturday 11 October 2014
This morning, Kim Hill interviewed Karen Armstrong, an expert on world religion and author of Fields of Blood: Religion and the History of Violence. She launched the Charter for Compassion as a global peace initiative in 2009.
As usual with Kim Hill, this was a thoughtful and constructive half hour or so. There was only one jarring moment, which prompted this writer, i.e., moi, to send her the following email….
Dear Kim,
You asked Karen Armstrong whether she believed “Muslims should condemn more strongly ISIS and Al Qaeda.”
Why did you not ask her whether Christians and Jews should condemn the marauding gangs of Uzi-toting illegal settlers in the Occupied West Bank?
Yours sincerely,
Morrissey Breen
Northcote Point.
Keep listening, fellas! She might just read it out on air.
Yes, I heard that too, that is also a question that should have been asked. That question was a bit unusual for her, she doesn’t normally go with the knee-jerk journalism querys that afflict us on every level. Never mind I’m waiting for the Dave Dobbyn Don Mcglashin interview.
feel like some inspiration , or some assurance that not ALL politicians are hopeless ?
watch a REAL leader in action !
The poorest president in the world: Jose Mujica
mujica has a clear/simple logic i love..
..re cannabis:..he wanted to take crime right out of the picture..
..so he sets up a state-grown/supplied system..(with all the ongoing job-creation that involves..yoo-hoo..!..provincial new zealand..!)
..and sets the retail price at no more than $2 per gram..
..what is not to love about this man..?
..i want him to be president of the world..
Im in the middle of preparing to emigrate there
I visited in my early 20,s fell in love with the place and have gone back regularly ever since
I have bought some property , am studying Spanish with my family and am on the road to residency, Uruguay is quite open when it comes to immigration, you should look into it (especially if you are a single guy the Women are fun, friendly,open & Beautiful but VERY fiery in general !)
although you probably wouldn’t appreciate the average Uruguayans dietary habits ?
You Lucky Lucky Bastard.
One down pointcan be the prevalence of “machismo”, It takes an assertive women to deal with it sometimes, particularly in the urban areas,rural men and gauchos are usually a little more conservative.
My wife and daughters have slapped a lot men over the years, The flip side is the receivers of said slaps will almost always bow out gracefully at that point & usually with a vote of respect for the “dama de fuego” or “chica ardiente” in question !
Chica ardiente is better than chica caliente. 🙂
Or maybe not, depending on the situation.
If my health allowed, I’d retire to Brazil. Unfortunately, it doesn’t. I prefer their attitude to life to that of the NAct lovers who have ruined Aotearoa. Brazil still has a sense that it’s developing as a nation. Aotearoa seems to be undergoing a process of destruction. I imagine Uruguay would be a cross between the south of Brazil and Chile.
What he says about being poor is amazing.
“Poor are the ones who describe me so. My definition of poor is those who need to much. Because those who need too much are never satisfied.”
Inspirational.
hes a very inspirational man and one of my personal heros !
David Shearer on the Nation saying that he, Robertson, Parker &co should have a veto over the leadership prerefence of the membership.
Shearer and his bitter buddies hate hate the membership having a say.
Time for Shearer to get out of Labour.
+1
And the rest of the MPs and members who think that the members shouldn’t have a say. They should wander off and join their natural home – National.
Watching The Nation oh dear me David Shearer should take his family’s advice and not stand as leader. Listening to him brings back those painful memories when he was last leader, that frustrating feeling of willing an answer out of him.
He couldn’t help but turn venomous against Cunliffe, however for DC losing the confidence of his deputy is quite a telling blow. I believe DC needs to call it quits and allow overwhelming support for Andrew Little.
Shearer has some interesting views on outsourcing war.
Views that Donald Rumsfeld and Bush’s neocons would admire.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/1998/09/15/outsourcing_war
Contracting out allows more money to be made off the American taxpayer, all flowing into private hands. Clean and legal too.
I have a friend who is ex NZ military working (4 years ago) a security adviser to some American outfit in Iraq. Big money, huge danger with bounty on his head. Wars are a licence to print money something the Yanks know all about.
yes..you did say you wd be pimping for little from day one when he stood..
..so no surprises there..
..and still no answer to the question of what to do about both little and roberston being so hopeless/hapless in debate etc..?
..how key will wipe the floor with them..
..whereas key and his ministers fear cunliffe..
..they just laugh at little/robertson….
..how to factor in/explain away those facts.. into yr support for little..?
While we take notice of the goings on in the House, most kiwis don’t. It doesn’t really matter his preformance in the house, it’s the MSM who decide who governs. In saying that Little could do worst than screaming at and abusing Key during oral question time, and perhaps giving very few interviews. I believe too much footage for Gower and his bent cohorts just allows them to edit and run any bulshit angle they want.
Bit old school, but what really needs to happen in the interest of politic’s being serious and not a bloody game, is that a anti media super hero comes forward and gives one of these smart asre journalists a serious roughening up, they’ll all get the message instantly to pull their fucking heads in.
Plenty of Countries where the media wouldn’t be getting away with distorting political outcomes like this current batch of MSM are doing here.
What’s the name of that movie Charles Bronson was the lead in?
Party Party?
“..While we take notice of the goings on in the House, most kiwis don’t…”
but they do get to see the edited-clips on the six ‘o clock news..
..so it most certainly does matter…
..and then there are the televised debates..
..which in many ways help define an election..
..and can you just imagine how little wd go..?
..’urm..um..ah…ur…!’..
..it wd be embarrassing..
Quite right Phillip.
Watching Shearer and Little on TV is like watching two bumbling bureaucrats searching for deckchairs.
Backstories that involve cleaning up corpses after the mercenaries, and stiff arming workers into treacherous deals with bosses are appropriate skillsets for the Party of Capital not the Party of Labour.
One can see the dirty politics machinations going on to manage the primary to reclaim total control of the Party for the Blairite Caucus Majority.
They and the whole right wing so hate the ideas of party democracy when the bureaucracy knows perfectly well what workers need (to be more productive of profits).
Workers don’t need the primary because that’s the only thing that can rescue the sinking ship and put those who actually do the Labour in charge of the Party.
Nope, that was Parker signing his political death certificate.
I wish that they would stop commenting on each other.
I have concerns about AL as we may be getting another Shearer……………..inexperienced, an unknown quantity.
I think we should just stick with Cunliffe.
Cunliffe as leader and Little as deputy. Little’s job needs to be uniting caucus, he has abilities in this area.
yep. Fully agree.
What really annoys me about the attacks on Cunliffe from caucus members is that they never say WHY they do not like him. Darien Fenton, who I do respect for her work with unions, has made it clear that she opposed Cunliffe becoming the leader and still does. Why, Darien?
They blame Cunliffe for the the election result without saying what it was that he insisted on doing in the campaign that they did not agree with.
The reason I have gone off Grant Robertson completely is that he was willing to use the “sorry for being a man” as a reason for Cunliffe not being popular, but didn’t say that the statement had been taken out of context and used by the MSM to attack Cunliffe relentlessly. To me, that was inexcusable.
Parker has said he no longer has confidence in Cunliffe, but won’t say why. He has taken no responsibility for the unpopularity of some of the policy he promoted eg raising the age eg entitlement to superannuation.
Very good comment Karen.
Actually leads to some new and interesting questions too.
Agree with all your sentiments, Karen – the question really is, why can the Caucus not act in a professional manner and do their jobs without playing stupid games. You would think that it was a contest for Class President, not for Leader of the Labour Party. These people are all on huge money courtesy of US, the taxpayers. Why can’t they knuckle down and concentrate on the work at hand instead of sniping about who they “like” and “don’t like” personally. Everyone in the outside business world manages that, why can’t they?? Who the HELL do they think they are? Get your snouts down to work, I say! Criticising David Cunliffe and saying if he is Leader it would be very divisive, David Shearer showed us all who he really is on “The Nation” today – an unprofessional, petty and small person who holds grudges. I have never heard David Cunliffe running down colleagues in this way. For that alone, Shearer is totally unsuitable to be Leader.
my thoughts exactly. I cringed when I heard the unprofessional simpleton.
I had whole heartedly supported him when he took over from Goff. After hearing this morning’s interview, and his public statements, I am very glad he isn’t the leader of the Labour party! It is he and other anti Cunliffe caucus cabal that are dividing the Labour party and are damaging it.
At least Little was a little more smarter and statesmanlike in his interview.
“At least Little was a little more smarter and statesmanlike in his interview’
Not a lot smarter or statesmanlike, but just a little bit better than Shearer.
I completely disagreed with Little’s put down of Kim Dot Com/IMP.
Bet he would have had a different take if Hone had won in spite of all the parties that ganged up against him and had IMP won 3 or 4 MPs and were needed to prop up a Labour led coalition.
I just read littles nation interview on nbr It lacked the waffle that usually stops me from getting to the end of it he made clear points and opinions I hope he stays that way.
the fact that Little is purportedly supported by Michelle Boag should cause ALARM!
….the fact that Little has “put down … Kim Dot Com/IMP” ….puts him in the right wing camp of the Labour Party
.
@ Chooky Shark Smile (11.2.1.1.1.1)
If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months
What Boag does is up to her. She is a loyal National Supporter. Comments by people like her, may be genuine, but just as easily (as we have learnt from Dirty Politics) could be playing games. I’m quite capable of forming my own opinion, without any “help” from Ms Boag.
~~~~~~~
….the fact that Little has “put down … Kim Dot Com/IMP” ….puts him in the right wing camp of the Labour Party
Whatever that means. Could you please be more specific about how that may be a good or bad thing with regard to his vision for Labour, and the policies that he will champion?
Mr. Botany (B.)
If you don’t know what the right wing camp of Labour means, it means the side of the Labour Party which since the 1980s continues to advantage the position and interests of financial capital in the economy, the position of large transnational corporates in the economy, and the ongoing corporatisation of the state, vs that of the bottom 50% of workers and citizens.
.
@ Colonial Rawshark (11.2.1.1.1.1.1.1)
I’ve learnt in life that there are rarely people that I can not agree with on some policies, even if I disagree with them on many others. I could not stand Robert Muldoon. I thought he was obnoxious, bigoted and vile. He attacked sectional interest groups one at a time. He split the country over the Springbok tour. He was an economic nincompoop. And yet for his true interest in doing something personal about gangs, and for his decision to ignore official advice in the Arthur Thomas injustice, I admire his actions.
I’ve also learnt to distrust labels. Your basic argument against Little is
(1) Right wing Camp is bad
(2) Little is in Right Wing Camp
(3) Hey Presto. Little is bad
Your label is totally unhelpful.
So I will ask again. And emphasise the word ‘specific’ this time.
Could you please be more specific about how that may be a good or bad thing with regard to his vision for Labour, and the policies that he will champion?
Smearing Little by labelling him “right wing” is Whaleoil 101. I’m more interested in the specific policies that you disagree with, and evidence that Little supports those policies.
For f, sake, we cannot blame Little for supposed events over the last 35 years!
What the f. has Little said that will advantage the position and interests of financial capital in the economy?
What the f. has Little said that will advantage the position of large transnational corporates in the economy?
Cut the Whaleoil smears out. Put up a little evidence. With those specifics you may have a small hope of convincing somebody. There is a 50/50 chance that I may even agree with you on some or all of them.
But condescending smears that others may not know what the right wing camp of Labour means, followed by a ‘definition’ of what “right wing” is, that basically means nothing with regard to the views of Little, without evidence, deserves ridicule. Is this the sort of stuff that went on in Dunedin?
ALL of the candidates will have some very sound reasons why they would make a good leader. I’ll vote after I have heard them all. And whether they are a “North or South” candidate, I’ll be more interested in how the candidates can use internal differences of style, to the benefit of Labour, rather than see those differences as requiring amputation from an already weak body.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Labour has a strong body, but an unreliable cockus.
I m a 43 year old white blue collar worker if labour can’t appeal to people like me they have no chance. As far as kdc goes he was a light weight in a heavy weight fight ie talked a big fight but had no knockout punch.
.
@ Clemgeopin (11.2.1.1)
I completely disagreed with Little’s put down of Kim Dot Com/IMP.
Do you have a reference for that? I will probably agree with you.
I have a warm spot for both the Mana and Internet Parties. I do wish that Dotcom was not on the bench at the “Moment of Truth”, with his distracting laughs, but otherwise it was not him that sabotaged the IMP vote …. that responsibility rests with both the National and Labour parties.
That Dotcom supported the policies of Mana, should be sufficient for sufficient for all current Opposition Parties not to slag him off. He could have been a useful friend.
Mr. Botany (B.)
http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/thenation/interview-labour-mp-andrew-little-2014101112
@ Clemgeopin (11.2.1.1.2.1)
Thank you for the reference.
I agree with you. I also completely disagreed with Little’s put down of Internet Mana.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Glad you agree!
Shearer also got rid of Lianne Dalziel and Charles Chauvel…both supporters of Cunliffe were relegated to the back benches and then left
And look where they both are now… holding down very important positions. Shearer also relegated all Cunliffe’s supporters to the back bench. I call that petty spite.
I agree with this too, Karen. I have the feeling that David Cunliffe hasn’t “joined the club” and has a wider perspective than those of the caucus who think that the membership are out of touch. Sure, we members are not totally conversant with all the nuts and bolts of Parliament but we sure as hell know what we stand for. We are not prepared to compromise on social justice just to make our party more attractive to a few fickle voters when we have thousands of non-voters who are disengaged because they don’t see a party that inspires them to vote.
Remember it is caucus living on $150K pa plus expenses which is out of touch with the nation, not the other way around.
+100 TMM and CR
Well said, Karen. All of this stuff fills me with mistrust. While these people allegedly “don’t like” or “don’t have confidence” in Cunliffe, I feel as if both policy and utterances are being pitched over our heads to ‘more important people,’ and that the task is to try and win us over to whatever the ‘more important people’ would like, which does not include Cunliffe, or anyone else that the ‘more important people’ feel the need to screw over. The general damning of the IMP has the same tone. “No, no, it’s OK More Important People, we’re definitely not going there.” I really don’t like it, and am getting close to the end of my tether with the Labour Party.
+1
In future I think we should refer to them as MIPs. (More Important People). Or of you like… the spim.
Who shall we include? Well, the MSM of course are more important than us – especially the Beltway boys and girls. Then there are the top civil servants – people like the States Services Commissioner (Rennie is it?) They’re so important. Throw in the big corporate types who ladle out the dosh – they’re very important. And special mention must go to the Police Commissioner (and understudies) and the Security heads – oh God, they’re so much more important than us. And that’s not even starting on the off-shore Dads and Mums…
In fact when you think about it EVERYBODY is more important than us. (deep sarcasm)
Edit: phew… nice to get that off my chest.
Thanks for listing them Anne – I am never sure who they are, I just notice MP’s responding to some ‘them’ or other more than to us – in the same way as you know that a guy running down the street with a scared look on his face is running away from some scary thing, even though you don’t know exactly what scary thing.
When fury rules the day as it has done for me since I read Dirty Politics then if you can dredge up a bit of humour… it always helps.
I’m sure the above list are all Beltway Cocktail Circuit regulars (the BCCs) and when you throw in the senior diplomats from all over the place then you have a large room full of MIPs. The MPs – especially the old hands – love mixing with them. It makes them feel ever so important. 🙄
The reason why is because Cunliffe is supported by the members which means that the Labour caucus may actually have to start listening to those members rather than their buddies in the corporate world.
+1
I would love a proper explanation from the ABC MPs as to exactly what their problem with DC is. Why he is apparently so bad they have ripped the Labour Party apart and ground it into the dust just to pursue their vendetta against him.
They’ve never had any issue with trashing him publicly before, so why not just come out and tell us?
Open invitation here to Trevor Mallard, Phil Goff, Annette King, Clayton Cosgrove, Chris Hipkins, David Shearer, Jacinda Ardern and Kris Faafoi – get some balls, get out of the shadows and explain yourselves.
1000+.
I have heard whispers as to why they don’t like him (sorry guys, can’t be more specific) and frankly they seem petty to me.
.
@ankerawshark (11.6.1)
Often issues of Leadership are. Petty grievances should be the easiest a true leader could fix. If they are indeed petty, it is probably a larger black mark against Cunliffe ability to lead.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Yes there are issues that Cunliffe needs to fix up in terms of the operation and leadership of both office and caucus. But these are all FIXABLE issues in terms of skills, behaviour, leadership paradigms and getting the right people in.
This discussion thread has been excellent in terms of identifying that the Labour caucus’ beef with Cunliffe seems quite mysterious and deserves serious explanation.
.
@ Colonial Rawshark (11.6.1.1.1)
But these are all FIXABLE issues
I agree. That is what I said. Then why didn’t he?
Mr. Botany (B.)
Why didn’t he? Simple – because this was his first time at Leader and it was a bloody steep learning curve on the job. He spent months trying to sort out the Leaders Office and then he was straight into the campaign.
Why is that difficult to understand. The main point is – Cunliffe is an outstanding leader for the party – as long as he recognises what needs to be done differently now, and what he needs to do differently.
The petty things were the complaints against Cunliffe.
.
@ ankerawshark (11.6.1.1.2)
That is what I understood you to mean.
Mr. Botany (B.)
If the caucus won’t tell the true leader what the petty problems are, but tell him everything is hunky dory, they are not easy to fix. I’d also make the point that it is very hard to satisfy petty egotists whatever you do, and there is no shortage of these in the Labour caucus.
Good call.
.
@Blue (11.6)
It’s an election process now. There is no responsibility for voters to provide any reason why they choose a particular candidate. It will be the responsibility of all four (5?) candidates to convince the voters to place their vote with them.
Mr. Botany (B.)
+100 karen
I think it comes down to plain self-serving ambition and/or self preservation. As an enthusiastic supporter of Cunliffe from day one, I nevertheless am disappointed in his apparent inablility to stare them down like Helen Clark did in the 90s. I may be wrong but my impression is that Cunliffe gave in to them which is ironic given the policy planks which played a significant part in Labour’s defeat initially came from that section of caucus!
They are in such strong denial, they can’t see the role they played in destabilising Labour and allowing ‘Dirty Politics’ to do the rest.
Well said. If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months.
@ Clemgeopin (11.7.1.1)
If Cunliffe wins, he should should show no mercy/hand of compromise to the RW disloyal, caucus cabal unlike the grace he showed the last time. Put them on the back bench for at least a few months
He might look lonely on the front bench by himself?
Mr. Botany (B.)
At least a couple or three….Cosgrove and Shearer for sure.
But he will have will have two of the South Auckland MPs and N Mahota 9excuse any spelling errors with him and probably more. Not too lonely.
Cunliffe showed is compromising accomodating side and the ABCs ran over it with a truck. Does Cunliffe have what it takes to show another leadership style as it is required? He needs to if he is going to do what it takes to be the right PM in very difficult times.
.
@ Colonial Rawshark (11.7.1.1.2)
Cunliffe has every chance of convincing the voters to re-elect him Leader. To do so, he will need to convince them that he has identified all the errors that we should have known in foresight, and all the errors we now know in hindsight. And how he is going to carry on doing all the good things he did, and not do those things that are now seen in error.
Perhaps the last paragraph is too complicated. Instead of fixing it up, I’ll paraphrase. Cunliffe is redeemable. It’s up to him.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Parker should never have said that in public. Huge disloyalty.
Shearer, should shut up too.
The only one who has appeared dignified is Little.
Cunliffe should stay though as he is the best performer.
.
@ ankerawshark (11.8)
The “disloyalty” is now answered. Parker will be a candidate.
The ‘disloyal’ tag was always unfair. Any comment that could be construed as ‘disloyal’ was made after the election.
Seems to me that silencing debate (“shut up”) is the wrong approach. If there is a TRUE desire to talk through ALL the issues. This is the one chance when a full and frank exchange of views can be understood to be more about getting the right candidate, than about expectations of ‘loyalty’. It’s quite impossible to be loyal to all four candidates, when there is only one vote to give.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Mr Botany B,
I think the President of the Labour party has said no talking about the candidates during the campaign or addressing things through the media.
I am going with that. It is never helpful when Labour is open about internal divisions in public. They open themselves up to being criticized for a lack of unity.
Mr Parkers comments after the election, when he knew DC would be standing again for leader, were completely unhelpful and against what the party president requested we do. If Mr C is re-elected then Parker has ensured the Nats can be unrelenting in their cries of “Labour Caucus is divided”.
Whatever caucuses opinion is of their leader carries very little weight with me. As a paid up member, I claim the right to come to my own decision.
.
@ ankerawshark (11.8.1.1)
David Parker’s comments preceded the President’s request.
Regardless, an election by itself shows that there will be four (or 5?) possible “divisions”. The election is “unhelpful”?
We can all pretend or we can be honest.
I see all this not as major divisions, but about 4 or 5 extremely capable people all dedicated to a Party that they are willing to lead. Of course John Key will say that the “Labour Caucus is divided”, or “Labour is committing suicide, or whatever. That’s politics. What John Key says about Labour will only be just another sledge that he adds to every one of his sentences, that he is “quite relaxed about” at the end of the day.
Mr. Botany (B.)
Well said. The stupid cocky caucus should realise that it is the members of the party that put them up as candidates and helped elect/select them in the first place!
A strong front line keeps the attack at bay, (being undermined). I reckon that when Cunliffe has a loyal deputy he will GROW in confidence and he will perform to his potential.
Yep, and he needs the correct Chief of Staff. Is McCarten that guy. There are damn few signs of it.
@10.5 I mentioned Cunliffe as leader and Little as deputy; little could unite caucus. Little as deputy and McCarten as chief of staff would work very well together. This duo would be loyal to Cunliffe as leader. A weekly chat with leader to sort out the disenchanted in caucus would not go amiss.
“I reckon that when Cunliffe has a loyal deputy he will GROW in confidence and he will perform to his potential.”
Who chose his current deputy?
I think caucus choose the deputy.
ta. So the leader needs the numbers then. Interesting. Is caucus choosing a constutional issue or more a matter of habit?
Agreed Karen. And further is the constant “attacks” from the ABCs yet to date I do not know any specifics which supports that. Everyone knows yet cannot point to what. I like Trevor and do not understand how or why he would be “underming” DC or anyone else.
.@ Karen (11)
How was Cunliffe’s “Sorry for being a man” supposedly taken out of context, exactly?
I think this statement was one of the most serious examples of Cunliffe assisting National in the election campaign. I’m sure he won many votes from the statement, especially the audience he was talking to. But for every vote he won, I expect he would have lost a dozen.
I hope the Labour review of the election considers this issue seriously, to determine how much of a problem it actually was.
From a conversation from a young female voter today, from a family with strong Labour voting history. “I had no idea why I would want to vote Labour. I didn’t know what they stood for. Cunliffe was a wet rag. He couldn’t get his message across in the debates with Key. How could he possibly run the country”
What Labour needed at the time, was some serious attention being placed on promoting a vision for the Party, and providing voters with a reason why they would like to support the Party. That did not happen, which remains an indictment on both Cunliffe and his election advisors. There was more of an appearance of trawling for votes from sectional interest groups.
I kind of agree with the assessment of the debates. While comments here were largely of the opinion that Cunliffe “won” the debates, the real conclusion is more complicated. If we are talking about a debate, then the comments that Cunliffe “won” may be correct. But ‘winning a debate’ and ‘providing a message for voters to choose Labour’ are two completely different beasts. It’s like winning the battle, at the expense of losing the war.
Cunliffe was chosen, almost solely because he was seen to be the one person capable of winning the anticipated debates with the masterful John Key. Nobody else could do it. (I say almost, because there is no denying that Cunliffe is highly intelligent, and a charming person on a face to face level) But now (in hindsight) I have come to the conclusion that far too much was made of the need to ‘win’ the debates with Key. That is a media construction that does not have to be followed. I am coming around to the proposition that a Leader such as Little (and possibly Robertson) could ignore the media’s demand that the media treat the debates like a prize boxing match – and ignore the temptation to score “smart” points off John Key, and simply do what they can do best – return to the Labour vision again and again and again, – and show how key policies will meet that agenda.
I think that Cunliffe won his ‘wet rag’ tag, with comments like his “sorry’ comment. There is probably only one way that he could regain my respect …. and that is by calling for a Commission of Inquiry into the injustice that has been done to Peter Ellis. Surely something can be done about this stain on our justice system while Peter Ellis is still alive?
Mr. Botany (B.)
Mr Botany B the main problem with Mr C’s sorry about being a man is how the msm spun it……………….. the main reason why Labour lost was the unrelenting campaign of negatively and spin agaisn’t DC.
Just consider this if the media had of reverse the positive spin on Key and applied it to Cunliffe and vica a versa, who would have won the election. IMHO Cunliffe and Labour.
Boldsirbrian I agree with you so far as the debates being a media construct that do little to explain Labour’s vision. Unfortunately the media are not interested in Labour’s vision, so it is almost impossible to get MSM coverage for anything except a quick response when something controversial has happened.
Labour did fall down in its advertising campaign, but I don’t know that Cunliffe was to blame for that, and I agree with Andrew Little that there was too much policy for voters to get their heads around.
The “sorry for being a man” was taken out of context. I had a listen to the whole speech online at the time and it actually inspired me to volunteer for the Labour Party this election. At that same meeting Paula Bennet evidently played on her phone through all the speeches – why wasn’t that reported in the MSM?
That’s interesting Karen. Remember in 2008 Helen Clark was seen checking her cell phone for messages (once) while seated in an audience at some function or another?
The video was played over and over again and the meme was: she had committed a very serious offence. Dirty Politics started years ago…
I got the Paula Bennett story from Miriam Pierard’s report of the symposium which appeared on the Daily Blog. It’s worth a read.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/05/guest-blog-miriam-pierard-dreams-become-reality-when-we-take-action-a-response-to-the-nz-womens-refuge-symposium-and-the-attacks-on-david-cunliffe/
@ ankerawshark (11.10.1)
@ Karen (11.10.2)
I also listened to the speech.
I am struggling to work out what context could ever justify such a ludicrous apology. No use blaming this one on the MSM
Perhaps he will address the subject in his electioneering.
I’ll repeat that it is really important that Labour get on top of this one in the Labour review. There are obviously people like you Karen, who were ‘inspired’ by an unnecessary put down of men. My anecdotal experience, found that the predominant response (from men especially) was the worst reaction that a politician could receive: being mocked.
So we (You and I, Karen) are firmly in two camps. Was the comment helpful or not for Labour?. If it was unhelpful, can we blame the media as ankerawshark suggests; or would the right ‘context’ somehow make it ok? Perhaps the Labour Party have far too few women supporters, and are willing to sacrifice a proportion of an abundance of male members, for women who may be inspired?
The answer is important. Perhaps Labour already know from their internal polling. And if I am wrong in thinking that the comment was overwhelmingly more detrimental than beneficial, I’ll eat humble pie, at the same time as I hand in my membership. A Party that supports such a comment, is not one that I personally wish to remain with.
Mr. Botany (B.)
I can imagine that if gay bashing were still common, and Cunliffe said he was sorry for being hetero, Robertson would join the chorus against him. I thought the way Cunliffe said that was a bit silly, but once he had spoken, caucus should have stood behind him. All of them, even the women, repeating “I’m sorry for being a man too” and explaining what it meant would have been far better than what they did.
As for Parker, he can fuck off to ACT.
http://www.silverdoctors.com/non-official-cover-respected-german-journalist-blows-whistle-on-how-the-cia-controls-the-media/
Just a reminder – still time to plan to get there.
The 2014 Bruce Jesson Lecture
Mike Joy – Paradise Squandered; New Zealand’s Environmental Asset Stripping
Wednesday 15 October, 6.30pm
Maidment Theatre
Alfred Street
The University of Auckland
The Maidment Bar will open from 5.30pm
New Zealand’s lakes, rivers and most of our groundwater are in a critical state. Decades of misguided regulation and a free-for-all on diffuse pollution have encouraged agricultural intensification and driven our increasing reliance on imported feed and fertiliser.
The inevitable consequences have been devastating environmental impacts as well as increasing economic and biosecurity risks.
The solutions are many but require a paradigm shift; a move away from dependence on imported feed and fertiliser to keeping nutrients on farm and adding value to products, and strong leadership to move away from short-term thinking that accepts the massive ecological debt we are running up.
Mike Joy MSc(Hons), PhD in Ecology is a Senior Lecturer in Ecology and Environmental Science at the Ecology Group-Institute of Agriculture and Environment, Massey University, Palmerston North. He has received a number of awards, including the Ecology in Action award from the New Zealand Ecological Society; an Old Blue award from the Royal Forest and Bird protection Society; Environmental New Zealander of the Year from North and South magazine and the Manawatu Evening Standard Person of the Year.
Presented by Politics and International Relations and the Bruce Jesson Foundation
Key starts the drumbeat for war.
I did not vote for this government.
Hope the 47% are relaxed about this.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11340983
Euthanasia – the right to die with dignity. Will we people ever get these political nitwits who supposedly are the cream of the crop to represent our opinions and needs in parliament and have them facilitated? We need them there to actually listen and devise strategies so that we maintain the standards we aspire to for human beings, but have more control of our own lives. While we have a bunch of sharp dealers, money mad and aspirational for their own comfort, the chances are against thoughtful and well-planned policy being passed. But I could be wrong eh!
http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/cancer-patient-chooses-death-on-own-terms-2014100920
In the USA. Last night, a story from the United States captured the attention of millions last night on Facebook.
The video of American woman Brittany Maynard has been watched by more than a million people – she has chosen the day she will die.
Ms Maynard has a terminal illness, but rather than spend her last months suffering, she’s moved her family to Oregon, one of just five US states that allows terminal patients to choose euthanasia.
She has chosen November 1 – two days after her husband’s birthday.
In Australia one of the states had police raiding people’s houses looking for the good drug that people had obtained and put aside ready for when they decide to pass away after they have done everything, got organised and feel content to accept death. But no this personal moment must be degraded by venal politicians, interfering medicos, religious dictators, and acts of aggression by the state. Disappointing, disgraceful.
We put of pets down when we know they are in pain and it’s the right thing to do. But rather our loved one suffer in pain. I put it down to the high religious influence in NZ.
@ Skinny
I think it’s a following of rote spiritual and ethical learning without much intellectual thought. And not wishing to face the reality of a situation, and being resigned about things. People say oh well, that’s how it is, at the end of the day we can’t help it happening, it’s nature isn’t it and other anodyne phrases.
(And here are some synonyms that I think also apply to a large number of NZs. –
bland, inoffensive, innocuous, neutral, unobjectionable, unexceptionable, unremarkable, commonplace, dull, tedious, run-of-the-mill.)
They are good people for sure, but rarely spark enough to think and act to make changes, or get something radically different. Lack of that spark makes us easy to push around, and accepting of everything, and we sure don’t like any offering of criticism or advice.)
“They are good people for sure……..” (agreed) – good, lazy, laid back, complacent, anodyne (as you say – good word), disinterested, disengaged.
A big societal change, which isn’t surprising after 30 years of neoliberalism.
We like to think of ourselves as compassionate, caring, concerned, etc., however I’ve begun to question that. We are when it comes to all being in the same waka (such as at times of natural disasters), or when shit hitting a fan becomes widespread.
Otherwise I’ve come to realise we’re actually no more compassionate or engaged, or concerned for the welfare of others, or community than many places elsewhere. (If we were, there’d have been a bigger turnout on election day).
Can you imagine (for example), most of the population of a small/average town/village volunteering at polio clinics, taking in homeless, feeding the homeless here in NZ? I can’t! At one time I could have.
It’s a self-congratulatory, but a completely fukd idea of the reality. It’s not surprising though when a good many of the aging boomers have reached their comfort zone and naturally want to preserve it, and when subsequent generations have grown up knowing, AND EXPERIENCING nothing other than the rise of individualism, greed is good, the commodification of all and everything.
Given the Koiwoi laid beck ettitude, its the easy option – that is until it all turns to shit. (Fear not though – we have an oikon to lead us all thru’ it by the name of Yavridge Bloke Honist John).
This is not the NZ I knew – and strangely enough its not even the NZ my 30ish yo kids knew – and its becoming a NZ I no longer want to know.
That sounds a bit defeatist – it’s not. I just don’t particularly want to be around when that muddle class awaken (and as someone elsewhere in here noted re the Muldoon era where you couldn;t find anyone that admitted voting for the prick).
The more this neo-liberal, selfish, greed-driven, no-such-thing-as-sussoighty, self perpetuating – but also – self-defeating nightmare goes on, the nastier the outcome is likely to be.
And it’s not just sleepy fucking Hobbits that need to wake up, but the NZ Labour Party as well
:h1
/endrave
:h2
/back to planning escape
:h3
/reminder to send a sympathy card to NZ Labour when they don’t get their shit together
Still are Tim
Good to hear you are still hanging on there. It’s amazing how 30 years can wipe out so much good principle and belief about what the spirit of our country was. And its hard to realise that though some of it was impatience with ferry workers and others going on too many strikes, and some ingrained efficiencies that needed checking, a lot of it was just snobbery as seen in the rude words about guys going to work in cardigans their wives had knitted etc. We were relatively self suffficient then and appreciated quality, and hand knitted wool. Now it is appearance imported polyester jackets. We like the look of the beautiful Easter egg, covered with foil but empty inside.
And we still have Labour losing the election because they are too stolid to find their way round a corner. A boot in the bum is what they needed. Strategic standing using MMP tactics as National does. Not quite in the spirit but still not outlandish except from Labour’s imagination. Why not call in some Standardistas as a focus group? There is always pollitics stew simmering here. Something hot and tasty would have been served up for their consideration.
And now David Parker is presenting the same stolid face that Michael Cullen presented. If Michael had worked out some fancy tax cuts that would have ended up increasing the velocity of money through the economy, and a few extra jobs, and a bit over for Christmas, probably Labour wouldn’t have lost but for his chewing gum called tax deduction. Labour haven’t come out of the last century. And we are already 14 years into the next. WTF.
In a country where we are still riding on Ernest Rutherford’s doings, while cutting down science funding here in favour of giving money to rich people buying things overseas and houses here as the great leap forward, it makes me puke. Do I want to live in such a dumb place. That thinks it is business minded, but can only do a couple of things that were going when we first were colonised, the rest has gone out of our hands to be exploited by cleverer people than us in the main. And the country is losing its soul.
It’s one of the amusing aspects of reading some of the novels that I’ve read where the author goes on about how these fabulous wealthy people with great style all have hand crafted this and polished that. And I recall a few years ago when an upper market car firm had the technicians signing the hand crafted parts of the motors that they made. I kept thinking but the machine made stuff is actually better and then I realised that it was a statement that basically translates to: I’m so rich I can waste peoples time and effort without concern.
DTB
Ever looked through Paul Fussells’s book on Class in the USA? Quite funny how the different classes regard anything from the culture of that income and asperashuns.
Actually signing stuff you made would be good. I wear all this cheap clothing produced by hard working driven people, mostly women from overseas. And sometimes I think about them sitting in lines at their machines. And I think there were exposes one called China Blue? But they have great skills and I try to mentally appeciate those when I remember. Applies to a lot of the things we get these days, when all physical labour is passe’. Even managing money has been mechanised, with computers set to buy and sell when certain monetary points are reached.
And something just recently has been produced that takes away jobs in favour of mechanisation. Those of us who still respect humanity and care about our society have to group together.
WH Auden –
We must love one another or die”
and Benjamin Franklin
“We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
“We put of pets down when we know they are in pain and it’s the right thing to do. But rather our loved one suffer in pain. I put it down to the high religious influence in NZ.”
AFAIK most people support euthanasia in principle so I think the hold up in legislation is more likely to be that we haven’t yet solved the issues around coersion and the overlap with suicide. ie it’s ethics that are holding us up. Not insurmountable but not insignificant either.
Do you think the ethics haven’t been talked about? The work is too hard that’s the trouble. It takes time away from giving largesse to the wealthy (friends) or dealing criminals who can’t be let off and have to be punished somehow (enemies) and the business of dealing with the broad mass of people is approached reluctantly.
All the problems could be solved by going into select committee, asking for input from regions open to interested people, not just the ossified. Then listening to limited time submissions where they have to stick to facts, not gerrymander on their opinions and beliefs.
Of course ethics have been talked about, but not across the population publicly. We probably need a dedicated period of time of taking the issue to the public, lots of media attention, time for an in depth look, talking to a range of people, medical, ethical, care givers, patients, families etc. By issue, I mean the legislation and the practicalities. That would need a political party to spearhead it – can’t see that being done at the moment, so that leaves lobbying until it gains momentum.
Myself, I wouldn’t be comfortable with this being handed over to a select committee process without the above happening, esp with the current govt.
If you want parties to support it, you have to get the population on board too. I think most people support euthanasia in principle, but haven’t yet been presented with the details of how it would work in practice.
True. The public never get a chance to get their teeth, so to speak, into the various concerns. When it is discussed there will be someone from the hospice service that rubbishes it, someone from religion who doesn’t countenance it, someone who has had an experience of need who supports it and the whole matter is left floating.
In general the public need to have the chance to discuss legislation, a group in each town who sort of monitors what’s going on, is informed and thoughtful, necessarily of course. And particularly with important matters like this. Also with some of the practices being adopted for prisoners, that go against the better standards of human behaviour that we have espoused in modern times.
The last thing I listened to (a while ago) was a hospice nurse who basically said that everyone with a terminal illness can have a good death experience with the right support. Vested interests I guess (as in she believes in her profession, but I suspect there were religious believes too).
I haven’t gone looking, but I’ve not seen good discussion about the practicalities of protecting vulnerable people. To my mind that’s going to be the stumbling block and is the thing that needs to get into the public for dicussion. Once that’s resolved many people’s hesitations will go away.
Re religion, where the mainstream ones stand on this? I assume the Catholics are against it, what about the Anglicans and Presbyterians? The Buddhists would be great to have involved, all that preparing for how one dies.
Does no one else see this as an act of extreme betrayal to our individual sovereignty.
Even in our last act we plead the permission of someone else.
Euthanasia seems an entirely appropriate course of action but fuck asking for permission…
andrew murray 3.55 pm
You are underestimating the human complexities involved in dying. If it was to be just as quick and straightforward as you think it ought to be, there would be a lot more suicide jumping off cliffs into the sea. But that creates problems, concerns, what if you don’t die straight away and endure agony for ages, not really the imagined end. And then people’s lives may be put at risk while they search for you, because it’s not tidy for a country to have people going off and dying in unknown places, even if they never cared two hoots about you while alive.
Then there are the people around, in the area, very sad to have people committing suicide near your place. If you die on your own, who finds you, who buries you, who ties up the ends of your life? So there are the people who want to know where the body is, the people who actually grieve, the people who want to inherit but can’t until the body is found or seven years gone, or can’t claim a widow’s, single benefit etc. Your bones and bits will be gathered up and given a cremation probably, who pays for that – the people. And some sort of marker for your remains to give respect to your being. And an entry to be put in the records that you came, you saw, and you conked out!
Suicide can be an incredibly selfish thoughtless thing to do. If children are left, what a burden to bear. Why, and do they blame the other parent and so on. If choosing euthanasia, there is often some plan, others would be involved. We aren’t islands, the last person in our world. There are things to be thought about, things that you should do before you leave the world that has nurtured you, even if to one’s mind not well. What is needed is a planned procedure, not an exhaustive one, but so the person can go with a clear path, satisfied to have finished and be done. And perhaps with a resigned and loving smile and kiss. Then it would be a good death to have.
edited
I believe Andrew Little’s candidacy will derail David Cunliffe’s attempt to stay as leader. Eventually, DC will have to withdraw, which will make easier for Grant Robertson to win.
The next few weeks should be watched with interest by the membership.
You don’t understand preferential voting do you?
+1 draco. cunliffe will not withdraw.
He could, if in doing so he can establish a better position for himself after the vote is all said and done.
When it was DC vs GR, I was expecting a close race, and honestly had no idea who would win.
But now the AL has entered, I think DC is going to come third and AL will ultimately win out.
I had no idea DP had also entered the race; so have no idea who will win now. I’d be happy with anyone but GR.
CP In your opening sentence did you mean to write “I hope” rather than “I believe” ? Nice try.(not)
Lamia retweeted
Andy Milne @AndyBMilne 14 mins14 minutes ago
Depressing stat of the day: 43% of homes sold in Chch bought by investors. http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/your-property/10604802/Investors-snatch-up-citys-homes
The raptor rebellion has begun.
http://io9.com/watch-as-a-hawk-knocks-a-drone-out-of-the-sky-1644813211
ha ha, awesome! Would love to know how big the drones are.
From the owners blog, via his youtube account, this is the quadrocopter he was flying.
edit: from his flickr account
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nprnncbl/13317084063/
ok, so nearly half a metre at its widest point, so just about as big as NZ hawk.
Pre-flight handling gives some scale.
http://youtu.be/mu5EGaMoDW4?t=4m
“Labour’s David Shearer says being leader of the opposition may be the worst job he’s ever had,”
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/david-shearer-considers-standing-for-labour-leadership-2014101111#ixzz3FnazmKX0
Coincidence: He was the worst leader the labour party ever had.
Next time at the supermarket, pick up a couple of kippers, cause snapper you aint.
Sounded to me like he just announced his resignation from caucus will probably be forthcoming post-leadership contest. (Unless he or Parker are leader that is)
Anyone around here still want to say that Shearer is an honest, compassionate, wise and intelligent man who went into politics in order to serve unselfishly for the benefit of others less fortunate than himself, after watching that?
As opposed to…….
No, undermining DC in public on National TV is.
Same goes to DP and Cosgrove.
These idiot senior MPs should know better.
Labour is in the shape that it is precisely because Labour’s front bench doesn’t know better. Labour’s caucus has a shockingly dysfunctional and toxic organisational culture.
Hmm…
.
Terrorism can never be defeated by military means alone. But how do you go about negotiating with people who have blood on their hands? Britain’s chief broker of the Northern Ireland peace deal explains how it can – and must – be done (for a start, always shake hands)
[…]
Above all, what these experiences demonstrate is that there isn’t really an alternative to talking to the terrorists if you want the conflict to end. Hugh Orde, the former chief constable in Northern Ireland, rightly says, “There is no example that I know of, of terrorism being policed out” – or fully defeated by physical force – anywhere in the world. Petraeus said that it was clear in Iraq that “we would not be able to kill or capture our way out of the industrial-strength insurgency that was tearing apart the very fabric of Iraqi society”. If you can’t kill them all, then sooner or later you come back to the same point, and it is a question of when, not whether, you talk. If there is a political cause then there has to be a political solution.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/07/-sp-how-to-talk-to-terrorists-isis-al-qaida?
( The author is former diplomat and Blair adviser Jonathan Powell )
defeating terrorism and insurgencies is thousand year old knowledge. It starts with not screwing over the ordinary people who are their support base, and bringing that support base closer to you, to push for a more moderate approach.
Unless it turns out that the terrorism and insurgency is politically useful to you for other reasons of course. In that case, you would just fuel it by killing tribal families and civilians on a daily basis to grow the hate of the ordinary people against your forces, and drive up recruitment and sympathy for terrorist/insurgency forces.
What has the west been doing again?
One problem is that so many in the military believe that they can win. They just need to apply a little more force. Vietnam, Northern Ireland, and Gaza are all examples of this. They remind me of ACT idiots who blame the GCP on lack of doctrinal purity.
the Pentagon Papers showed that the US military knew that it couldn’t win in Vietnam. Didn’t stop it pretending otherwise though.
I would like each of the candidates for the LP leadership to answer the following questions. Please feel free to improve the quality of the questions and add some more.
1. What if anything, in your opinion, was wrong about the direction of Labour policies in the last election?
2. What changes would you personally like to see in the general direction of Labour policy?
3. If you are voted in as leader and the membership and the caucus insists the party should move in the opposite direction to that which you support, how will you cope with this?
4. If you are not voted in as leader and the agreed party policy moves in the opposite direction to your wishes, then are you able to unreservedly support the party line and its leader?
5. Who do you believe should determine the direction of the party- the leader (together with caucus) or the total membership?
6. What are your views on the way in which the TPPA and the deep sea drilling issues should be handled?
7. What are your views on the way controversial policies such as the increase in the age of eligibility of superannuation should be handled?
8. It is obvious that Labour would need to form a coalition to be in Government. Using the hindsight of the recent election, how do you think the pre-election relationships between possible coalition partners be optimised to present a stable alternative to the voting public.
good questions, and they should certainly be asked, but overall, policy did not win or lose Labour the election. Being a poor cultural fit with Kiwis and being socially disconnected from the vast majority of Kiwi voters, is what nailed Labour.
(having said that the BS retirement age policy and the badly executed CGT policy messaging were definitely hindrances).
Just since that Parker has thrown his hat in the ring…………..holy moly…………4 candidates.
The vote will be heavily diluted.
IMHO anyone who has criticised DC in public should be out. Not matter how “bad” he is, they should have stfu.
I am thinking of emailing Moira Coastworth to ask what disciplinary action will be taken by the party after D S on the Nation this morning. We were told to shut up about the candidates.
The vote will be heavily diluted.
It’s. A. Preferential. Vote.
For those playing at home: https://twitter.com/stephanierodgrs/status/518529618047795200
We were told to shut up about the candidates.
Who are “We”?
Told by who?
Is there an email that I have overlooked in my mailbox? Or there is something on the internet – link?
There was an email from Moira Coatsworth. I may have done her/it a dis-service by saying “shut up”.
I can’t remember the exact words, but how I interpreted it was that we shouldn’t bag the candidates and that we are not to express negativity through the media about the candidates.
Sorry if I have mis-lead.
Oh, that one. That email was even-handed and fine. I didn’t sense anything calling for people to shut-up. It was more of a ‘being mindful’ kind of tone.
Having said that, it is quite interesting to think this through:
(1) Did Parker read that email before or after Moira’s email?
(2) In accordance with good sense and common decency, did Parker cross the line in terms of the letter or even spirit of that statesman(person)ship-like email from Moira?
(3) With regard to the answer in response to (2), whether in the affirmative or negative, such an answer would set the precedence for other caucus or party members to be judged accordingly.
(4) If the answer to (2) is no, then that means it would be quite ok for people to call out, as Parker did, as to who be regarded as “untenable” to be leader.
(5) If the answer to (2) is yes, when will Parker be disciplined?
(6) ……. any more to add … go ahead, readers ….
I think the email from Moira was good. No problem with that.
It said that the comments should not be denigrating or disrespectful…..
So the question is, is saying you have “no confidence” in one of the candidates denigrating or disrespectful?
It is pretty damming of DC.
Does the interim leader set the precedence? Surely all the members, including caucus need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Personally, I do hope that after a fair contest Grant Robertson wins.
i wd like to formally announce my candidacy for the leadership of the labour party…
Screw it me too. why not.
Didn’t know you were a member Phil! (can’t do the smiley face, but consider a smiley face done!)
i thought i’d join tomorrow..
..face it..i’m a better public speaker than at least three of them..
..i’m better looking than all of them..
..and i have a brace of progressive policy-ideas..
..that will have that missing million clamouring to get into the polling-booth..
..i’ll betcha the other candidates have none of that on offer..
I don’t think the missing million are radical vegan lefties so you’ll have moderate yourself heavily if you are going to win them over.
@ wag..
..can do..
..the policies will do that..
Martin McKee article in the BMJ – social media attacks on public health
Stuff has a poll about who you would prefer as the next Labour leader. I think this poll is a bit stupid and the results are highly suspect as it is an open poll for everyone, including Labour’s and Cunliffe’s enemies!
The actual Labour leadership contest that is rightfully open to the Labour members, not to the general public and Labour’s opponents.
For instance, for National, I would ‘prefer’ Aaron Gilmore as their leader…(or may be Maurice W or Judith C or Bhakshi K or….)
Here is the stuff poll:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/
Clem @ 27 the DB poll is likely more accurate. DC initially out ahead. Now AL slightly ahead with GR trailing a long way behind………….
The money to help the stricken nations trying to deal with Ebola isn’t rolling in fast enough! And a warning is given that if the pandemic gets out of hand it will badly affect the world’s economy!!
An item on a link – sounds a downer. Our gummint says we need more uni money going into science so we Can GetAhead as a country,.
In USA they in one area have increased grad places from 30,000 to 56,000 but at the same time the projects funded have gone from 30% to 10% or something and a lot of scientists are having to do basic work that PhD should not be doing. They have the credentials, they have the ability but can’t get the work. Crazy old capitalism. Screws you every time. That’s very roughly the gist. Get the real facts from the link.
http://io9.com/meet-the-new-underclass-people-with-ph-d-s-in-science-1644006710
It does. The people who produce stuff and actually keep society functioning get screwed over while the people who speculate with money or get interest and dividends from holding money/shares do ever better. The result will be the collapse of society and it appears that’s what most of us want as we vote for the political parties (National, Act, etc) that will bring about that collapse.
I am very lucky to have a permanent position. I wouldn’t advise anyone to aim for a career in science at the moment. You work your guts out to learn about things, gain unique abilities and then have to put up with disrespect from both smarmy gits like Key and conspiracy freaks who get their pseudoscience off youtube. You only get a permanent position if you’re very lucky, and you end up with a huge student loan to pay off.
DTB and Murrayrawshark
That’s how it is eh! So we can’t keep going hoping for better days. This is the end of the Rogernomics trial. And it’s been a failure. We have known for a while but have looked away quickly at NZ lying injured, and passed on our way. Now we have to turn into Good Samaritans and pick up the country, dress the wounds, get it some crutches, and help it move again.
The bible has some good, relevant stories in it, apart from tribes warring and calvinist threats of doom, and skewed ideas retreating as far as you can go from Christianity.
And I don’t go to church regularly now, but might go to Bahai or Quaker. Very sincere.
I can’t stand being preached at now, knowing that the original message and thought has been written down, passed on by some other human, partly digested and brought forward again to the faithful, in altered form. Chinese whispers is like the stuff being preached, the further from the source, the more likely that some dictate or fillip has been added.
The good thing about the underclass with PhDs is that they can do more than use their cell phones to crowd source the revolution.
It is with heartfelt sadness that my family have heard of the death of Labour Party stalwart Paul Jellicich /Paul was famous for the Labour Picnics he organized and his Lamb spits were famous .
Our thoughts are with his wife Dorothy ,My wife and I have fond memories of you both and are just glad that we enjoyed dinner together just a few weeks ago.
Our love and thoughts are with you Dorothy .