Questions for Pete George, assuming he has time to comment today:
Pete said:
“The aim is to raise people’s income by getting them into employment.”
weka said
That disqualifies you from having any opinion on beneficiaries until you answer the question: how many beneficiaries are not required to seek/gain employment?
Then you will have to answer how many people are now required to see work, despite previously being exempt.
Then come back and explain how those people are supposed to live. And why those people aren’t entitled to a livable income.
Then explain why you think that beneficiaries are all unemployed.
And then explain how unemployed beneficiaries are supposed to raise their income via employment when there aren’t enough jobs.
Then, when youve done all that, retract your statement that NACT don’t keep people poor.
Take your time, Pete. But please don’t go clogging up the threads any further until you’ve addressed these important questions.
Hell Felix I hope you are not holding your breath. Weka is still waiting for his answers, and his questions are about 4 days old. And don’t forget he is very busy checking facts for Politicheck.
Perhaps weka can outline how he thinks an entitlement to a livable income could work, with examples of how similar policies have worked elsewhere in the world.
You make a lot of sense. It’s probably wasted on these people; they simply have too much hate to even try to understand and allow themselves to develop. Good on you for trying though 🙂
“Not sure how it can be avoided setting benefit levels statistically lower then people who are employed.”
Benefits were cut by $20/wk in 1990. In the mid 80s the unemployment benefit was around the same rate as what school leavers were earning going into office jobs. We used to have relatively higher benefit rates then, why can’t we now?
Cost. I presume there’s many more people on benefits now. At the end of March 2014: 295,320 working-age* people were receiving a main benefit. (MSD).
And wanting to encourage people into paid employment.
“I’m not sure than any of the larger parties are suggesting that should be substantially changed.”
The GP want a UBI.
Their Income Support Policy states “The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. The Green Party will: Investigate the implementation of a Universal Basic Income for every New Zealander”. They are interested in the concept (as I am) but don’t say they want one.
The aim is to raise people’s income by getting them into employment.”
That disqualifies you from having any opinion on beneficiaries until you answer the question: how many beneficiaries are not required to seek/gain employment?
It doesn’t disqualify me from anything. I have already said that some people on benefits cannot seek employment. Both Labour and National governments want to encourage those who can seek employment to do so.
I’ve also already said that if the number of people on benefits is substantially reduced then those who have to remain on benefits should be able to be provided for better.
Then you will have to answer how many people are now required to see work, despite previously being exempt.
I don’t have to do anything. I don’t know what point you are trying to make with this.
Some current details are here at MSD.
I think it’s reasonable to expect that those who are capable of working should be seeking paid employment and taking responsibility for their own welfare.
I acknowledge that it can be very difficult finding work that people want with the pay they want. Some are more motivated than others. Some people have unrealistic expectations but for many there simply aren’t enough jobs.
Then come back and explain how those people are supposed to live.
They live how they live. It’s very tough for many. Others find a way manage.
And why those people aren’t entitled to a livable income.
You tell me why you think they should be entitled to a ‘livable income’.
Ideally everyone should have an income that makes living not too much of a struggle. But expecting everyone should have comfortable style of living without having any money problems is fanciful and idealistic.
Life can be hard work and bills can be difficult to manage, especially if you have children. We should strive for better and easier but it can never always be guaranteed or provided,
Then explain why you think that beneficiaries are all unemployed.
They’re not, some are partly employed. There’s a range of reasons why beneficiaries could be unemployed, including circumstance, health, choice, lack of alternatives and a shortage of jobs.
And then explain how unemployed beneficiaries are supposed to raise their income via employment when there aren’t enough jobs.
Some can supplement their benefit. Some could be more flexible in what work they seek and where they seek it (that’s difficult for many). And there are not enough jobs for many. That’s one thing benefits are designed to assist with.
Then, when youve done all that, retract your statement that NACT don’t keep people poor.
You’ll have to be more specific, I’ve made a number of comments related to that.
I don’t believe that in general National (or Act) want to “keep people poor”. The effect of Government policies (Labour and National) may be that some people stay poor, but I question whether any MP wants to ‘keep people poor’.
All parties propose economic growth with the intention of improving incomes and increasing the number of jobs.
“I presume you know that if the minimum wage was raised by 50% and work was provided for anyone who wants it then we’d still have the same number of people under the statistical poverty line.”
What everyone else just said. Plus, you’re a dick. If the people at the bottom end of the scale have enough to live on, then poverty stops being an issue irrespective of the statistics.
But waving a money wand and waving a job wand aren’t realistic options.
Can you show any country in the world where giving everyone “enough to live on” has succeeded over a period of years or decades.
Poverty is a problem that needs to be addressed as well as possible, but Government giving substantially more money to people with productive work being an unpressured option is unlikely to succeed if history and current world conditions are anything to go on.
But perhaps weka can outline how he thinks an entitlement to a livable income could work, with examples of how similar policies have worked elsewhere.
Cost. I presume there’s many more people on benefits now.
There’s also more people working so that doesn’t work.
Both Labour and National governments want to encourage those who can seek employment to do so.
I think it’s reasonable to expect that those who are capable of working should be seeking paid employment and taking responsibility for their own welfare.
Which is the wrong way of looking at these things as it requires that there be employers first. What we should be doing is encouraging and supporting people to create their own work either as individuals or as cooperatives. This, of course, is where a UBI really shines and why a lot of people in power will reject it as it removes the force of poverty.
Life can be hard work and bills can be difficult to manage, especially if you have children. We should strive for better and easier but it can never always be guaranteed or provided,
Actually PG, it can be provided – as soon as we get rid of the rich and move to a stable state economy.
I don’t believe that in general National (or Act) want to “keep people poor”. The effect of Government policies (Labour and National) may be that some people stay poor, but I question whether any MP wants to ‘keep people poor’.
National and Act do as it’s the force of poverty that ensures that people will work for them and thus make them richer without them actually having to create any wealth. I specifically remember that when National lowered the UB it was so that the low minimum wage was seen as being better than staying on the dole. Labour probably don’t but their support for capitalism will ensure that they do.
All parties propose economic growth with the intention of improving incomes and increasing the number of jobs.
As we should all know by now is a) physically impossible and b) hasn’t worked anytime in the past.
“Why do we have to go to your blog, to see your answers to questions that were part of a discussion here?”
You don’t have to go anywhere, it’s your choice.
The discussions and questions were all over the place here in a variety of threads. It can get very messy and difficult to follow. I was being asked to respond in many places. It was easier to collate it in a single post at a single point. And it’s a good point of reference and library, that’s what I often use my blog for.
I don’t mind that you copied and posted the full post here, I’ve heard it’s not the done thing but I hope the moderators cut you a bit of slack on this.
“The discussions and questions were all over the place here in a variety of threads. It can get very messy and difficult to follow. I was being asked to respond in many places. It was easier to collate it in a single post at a single point. “
Uh huh. Of course you could have just answered the questions as directed to you, and no-one would have reposted them for days and days in different places as they chased your dishonest ass around the site while you pretended not to notice them, Mr ‘far too busy to respond to this but plenty of time to post that.
weka: And then explain how unemployed beneficiaries are supposed to raise their income via employment when there aren’t enough jobs.
Pete: “Some can supplement their benefit”
yeah, how exactly does that work Pete? Those on a Jobseeker benefit can only earn $80 a week gross, before they are then taxed at 70c in the dollar.
When existing on a Jobseeker benefit, being able to work a whole six hours a week does not really change a person’s circumstance and it still leaves that rather large issue of there not being enough jobs in the first place.
Now you have responded to weka’s questions, (it cannot be said you have really answered anything) will you be starting work on your budget for poor people?
In addition, people with assets other than their home over $8,000 are not eligible for Accommodation Supplement. Which means that the govt expects people to sell assets and use their savings before they get adequate benefit. That’s fine for people that are short term unemployed and go into a job that pays well enough for them to start saving again, but for anyone cycling on and off the benefit/temp or casual jobs that isn’t possible. It’s also not possible for people on sickness/invalids or DPB, which are all long term benefits. This is another way in which people are made more poor by state policy.
The fact is that you and weka et al don’t have a viable alternative, or at least you don’t have one that you’re prepared to give details of or evidence that it has worked elsewhere.
Generally change like that is forged in Parliament via party policies and bills and majority votes. I would support Greens if they tried to push their investigation of a UBI but I don’t know if they would get sufficient support where it counted.
The only thing from Labour that comes close is in this post from Stuart Nash:
Announce, set up and drive forward a Tax Commission with a mandate to undertake a complete overhaul of the NZ tax system without the constraints of the last one (where a whole raft of measures, including a capital gains, were off the table).
Petty George, if you read the UBI posts and comments here you’d already have the solution to your ignorance of this matter. Google is your friend, asshole. I’m not doing your research for you.
It showed some positive outcomes, and very few negative ones.
It has never been tried long term because there is not the political will by those with power. ie for the very reasons given by some here as to why those with power want to keep people on benefit levels that keep them at subsistence levels or below.
Why do you keep asking new questions without actually engaging with the debate?
The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. The Green Party will:
Investigate the implementation of a Universal Basic Income for every New Zealander.
Why is your mind closed to new policy initiatives?
I’ve said a number of times (including on this thread today) that I’m open to the concept of a UBI – and to a major restructuring and simplification of our tax and social welfare systems and I would support this if Greens pushed for it to be investigated.
That Greens promote an investigation only suggests it would be complex, a challenge to find out the best way of doing it and possibly difficult to achieve.
I quoted the same as you have here in my post (that you copy/pasted).
NOOoooooooo, now George wants to pollute the Green Party with his total transparency,
Spill this little something you are working with ‘the greens’ on George or it can only be taken by your recent trail of comments covering a week that you are now attempting an ‘over-coat’ change, flailing round for support from the Greens who regularly appear at the Standard,
The thought of Petty as a Green makes me automatically do this, 🙄 , 🙄 ,and this, 🙄 …
That Greens promote an investigation only suggests it would be complex, a challenge to find out the best way of doing it and possibly difficult to achieve.
Herbert Macuse, the most widely known member of the Frankfurt School, mainly German neo-Marxists who fled the Nzs, many settling eventually in the US argued in One Dimensional Man (1964) that advanced industrial society has developed a ‘totalitarian’ character in the capacity of it’s ideology to manipulate thought and deny expression to oppositional views; or, in other words Consent is Manufactured -Chomsky.
By manufacturing false needs and turning humans into voracious consumers, modern societies are able to paralyse criticism through the spread of comparatively stultifying affluence. According to Marcuse, even the apparent tolerance of liberal capitalism serves a repressive purpose, in that it creates the impression of free debate and argument, thereby concealing the extent to which indoctrination and ideological control occur.
And why is it that you RWNJs always insist that it has to have been tried before and been successful? We need change and change, more often than not, means doing something that hasn’t been done before.
I don’t insist (but I’m not a RWNJ). But it helps to have seen how something might work elsewhere.
I agree though that sometimes change requires doing something that hasn’t been done before. That has greater risks of unintended and unwelcome consequences. I guess that’s why Greens call for an investigation rather than push a specific policy on it.
So “viable alternatives” are only those that are party policies or those that have been done before?
But wait, apparently even though dignified benefit levels have been done before, they can’t be done now because of “cost”.
What about green party policy of income support, which includes investigating a UBI – do you think a UBI should be investigated?
At the moment it seems you have an incredibly closed mind. Even though you pretend to embrace other points of view, you find contradictory excuses to discount anything that helps the poor, or anything that seeks to control alcohol and gambling, or anything that will take power from the rich.
I get $159.29 in hand after rent is paid. It’s really hard to keep up paying for monthly bills and with food costs rising every other day. My rent may rise from $210 to About $220-230pw the accommodation supplement is only $65 that means I will have to use $20-30 out of the $159.29
The recent cost of living adjustment I got was only $2.89. Oh! Forgot to mention I owe WINZ $20pw.
So for all the noise over benefits is mere electioneering. I will see what actually happens when reality sinks in for those who think they know all about benefits.
Pete you need to get hold of the bigger picture first, before diving blindfolded into the detail. I suspect that is half the problem for you. You simply do not have a big picture of how you see society should function – you simply bounce here and flounce here and wonder this and wander that. It is no wonder that others tire and get frustrated at your bouncing flouncing wondering and wandering.
For mine own big picture I picture a small village….
In that small village all people conspire to create a good shelter for each village member to inhabit and good food for each to live on. This is done, as it always had been in most all of human past, in a cooperative manner (you know, like NZ’s biggest businesses do). This then ensures that each person is provided for and healthy, and hence the entire village is at its peak strength, or rather, without any structural weakness by way of a weak link. This is the base, the starting point, the main foundation stone ……
For Nact types their big picture is nothing like this and their thinking is to be deplored… For Nact types it is every member for himself…. …. Imagine a small village where every member is for himself Pete. Imagine it if you can ….. it is like NZ today …. no wonder our foundation stones are failing …. the basis of human existence is undermined and non-existent.
vto – I agree with your small village ideal. I grew up in a rural/village environment.
But even small villages have practical problems in real life. And the larger villages/towns/cities get the greater the chance of problems and the greater the problems.
There are some attempts being made to get village thinking into cities but it’s challenging, especially in a modern society that’s very mobile and very connected communications often over large distances.
A good place to practice the village way and to spread the ideal by example would be on a blog like this, wouldn’t it? Where are differences are accepted and respected, and debated with decency?
“But even small villages have practical problems in real life. And the larger villages/towns/cities get the greater the chance of problems and the greater the problems.”
whooooosh
and yet again, vto’s point sails over Pete George’s head
it’s called a Robin Hood tax (or use any of the alternate titles that are out there)
Every transaction is taxed
no if buts or maybes
no exemptions
no outs
no hidey holes
Simply put, you tax turnover, not profits.
You want a UBI you pay a very small % tax on every thing you do. Something in the region of 0.1% would suffice. Be it buying a loaf of bread, paying a rates bill, trading a fortune in currency bonds or mining a national forest park. Want to write off a few hundred million in assets so your profit isn’t so high… you pay the tax first.
Simply put, you tax turnover, not just profits.
It is administered as the principal tax before any existing tax processes are enacted. I.e: before any other tax is accounted for or paid. The very small % tax is then directed solely into a UBI fund. You only have to look at the Cullen Fund for an example of how much money these funds can generate once established.
Once adopted, the UBI Tax is collected for a full year to establish a base fund, before being released as a UBI of approximately $15k per person per year.
Yes it is an additional tax to p.a.y.e.
yes it is an additional tax to g.s.t.
yes it is an additional tax to kiwisaver.
But, at its most basic level it means that Corporations and Trusts cannot hide their vast sums behind an accountants’ wizardry. Simply put, you tax turnover, not just profits.
Just think how much the Casino and Lotto scams will deliver to the coffers every year.
Then consider the banks and the currency traders. The very industries that will argue most strongly against this idea are the same industries that are the most risky to our economy in the first place. IMHO, The money traders, the stock markets, the bankers will hate it and their consequent reduction in risky or unnecessary activity could translate to a more stable and sustainable economy. We try something new or we continue the cycles of deprivation and bailouts that have peppered the last thirty years.
Is this all an overly simplistic explanation of an incredibly complex issue? Absolutely!
Do I claim to be an expert, not at all, but I am a person who can state honestly that I put ideas on the table, not excuses.
To build something new Pete, you have to do that one thing you seem incapable of …
you have to take an honest step forward into unknown territory.
all funnies aside Lanthanide, many many billions are lost to this country every year as money is siphoned out of our economy, not declared as profit, written off as devalued assets, swapped between trusts and generally just fiddled with to keep taxes as low as possible. This has to be addressed.
To be clear, my actual preference would be a Robin Hood tax of closer to 1%
Obviously 15k per person, even in a small population like NZ is a huge amount of cash for the Government to pay out. An alternative to receiving a UBI payment is maybe those who are employed choose to receive it as a tax free allowance, so the first 15k of income tax is forgiven. That is the first 15k of tax due, not 15k of income. That way those earning well don’t have any reason to bludgeon those receiving the UBI payment directly. The Robin Hood tax would still apply to all transactions, as would income tax on those receiving the UBI.
I think somewhere in there is a workable solution to the problem, but I am not an expert and if all I have done is supplied some giggles to economists then fine, but all I know is what the experts keep doing does not seem to be working.
all the righties who are posting how much this will damage labour and who agree with much of what jones has said… think about those 2 things and how they might be a contradiction.
I vote green so it doesnt hurt mt preference.
maybe one day labour will wake up and remember this nation doesnt need national lite.
The timing of Jones leaving could not be worse. Had he left 6 months ago or waited up until after the election, it would be less suspicious. This was timed so he can inflict maximum damage to Labour’s election chances this year. I can only imagine a field day the Nats will have in Parliament at question time, every answer will contain a jibe about Jones and the Labour Party in disarray. And the media, talkback radio etc…
With MPs like Jones, Labour doesn’t need enemies.
I caught Kelvin Davis phone interview on First Line this morning.
It was a confident and assured performance, and making it look like he will hit the ground running, making for a smooth transition.
Jones resigning nearer the election would have been worse. It’s also fortunate that Davis is next in line – did he say he would be leading the Maori caucus?
This was timed so he can inflict maximum damage to Labour’s election chances this year.
If so then I think it’s going to backfire on whomever planned it. It’s been widely accepted for a long time that Jones was more National aligned than Labour.
& also generally accepted that kelvin davis is a very able & intelligent & talented guy, this could turn out to be a blessing in disguise for labour (or at least i hope someone is spinning it hard as such). watch out hone is all i can say (& im a mana supporter).
Jones is just one man – and Labour is a lot bigger than anyone one person. (Unlike National who would be nothing without Key at the moment.)
Jones has every right to determine his own future. He’s given a lot of time and energy to the Party for many years and he deserves credit and thanks for that. But commitment comes with a price, and he’s looked at the where he stands and made his choice to leave with dignity.
It’s still some months out from the election and while it would have been better to have timed it sooner; perhaps that was beyond his control. And of course you cannot help but ponder the Machiavellian role McCully may well have played here. It would have been way worse for Labour and Jones to have slogged through an election when his heart was not in it.
As for the ‘party in disarray and shock’ nonsense – just treat it with the utter contempt it deserves. Sure there will be some people who are surprised, some disappointed, and someone is bound to say something stupid – that is the nature of politics everywhere.
Checkpoint last night (after the 6pm TV news). So much for some of the Stuff and NZ Herald claims about no one from Labour being available for comment immediately after the TV announcements of Jones plan to resign.
Coatsworth was interviewed and said Jones had told her a while back that he was contemplating leaving. He told her his decision earlier yesterday. And, there’s also an interview with Matthew Hooton, in which he apparently claims Jones had been talking to him off the record for a while – saying he was unhappy with Labour.
Labour is better off without such a Nat Trojan Horse in their midst. And, actually, Labour were all on message pretty quickly last night. Cunliffe on the Henry show, Coatsworth etc… and then this morning, Kelvin Davis doing itnerviews – all wishing Jones well, praising his time in parliament, and looking forward to Davis’s contribution.
The MSM shows whose sidethey are really on with the way they are spinning it.
Jones was ‘colourful’. That’s it. Every gain he made is outweighed by his blunders (FFA, he paid for porn with taxpayer money!). The redneck men he appealed to wouldn’t vote Labour anyway. And let’s face it, Davis is both capable and likeable. If Jones is a loss he’s not the fatal one the MSM claim.
Again that’s just buying into their spin. FFS it was all of $20 that was automatically plonked on a credit card hotel bill and Jones had reimbursed back in the normal course of events. It was never anyone’s business but his own.
There are way worse things that people do than watch a few tits and bums on tele.
I really get fucked off by the way so many people get obsessed over piffling panty-sniffing distractions – while oblivious to the main event.
Yep. Jones’ too friendly corporate dealings are of far, far more concern. But people get predictably outraged about the scandalous BS and the MSM are masters of manipulating to that exact principle.
The video service was a legal one offered by the hotel, and as it had been reimbursed is a story propelled by the sort of sniggering associated with prepubescent schoolboys. Apologies to all the non-sniggering teenagers out there…
(Porn-watching is not appealing to me as a voter, but think his corporate associations and right-wing views were much more scandalous)
I disagree. Watching and funding pornography that degrades and demeans women is behaviour that does not exist in isolation.
That he initially used public money to fund this industry underlines his arrogance, sense of entitlement, lack of boundaries, respect, and empathy. It’s not the only thing, but it’s still relevant.
Where are the reports about David Cunliffe saying that Jones leaving is “all National’s fault” coming from, I’ve heard this repeated all morning on RNZ but they aren’t citing a source at all.
Hooton’s radionz attempt to pretend that Jones ‘ leaving is bad news for Cunliffe is so 12 year old logic that it’s laughable.
But unfortunately it will resonate with some voters who have also the same age level logic as Hooton.
Jones is resigning one job to take up another.
People do it all the time. Linda Clark has just done it.
Some media commentators have just changed jobs.
What’s the big deal?
And Gower this morning as usual blowing it up out of all proportion saying it’s a hugfe conspiricy by McCully Jones and the Nats. Usual Story (bullshit) from Gower.
Absolutely agree RL. Not to sure of Jones leaving with dignity having must heard him on tv3 saying that Labour was full of geldings. Nice,not. However I do think that Labour should just stick to its’ knitting and keep a dignified silence on the media beat-up. There is nothing for them to answer to. National however may have to answer to public perception as to how ethical they are. Which is not at all. Keys comment that Shane Jones will be a welcome assert to national said it all. He needs to watch his tongue, he will trip over it one day. Also if Labour refuses to participate in keys particularly spiteful, nasty dialogues it will drive him nuts. If he hasn’t got a participating opponent he has nothing.
Enough of Shane Jones, MSM are very upset, I wonder why? Their main inside source is moving on, moving onto to a National Party inspired job, wankers unite, good riddance.
Anyway, is there anyone else out there who feel like slitting their wrists when listening to RNZ new breakfast pair… Im struggling to listen to them without falling back to sleep….
It’s interesting listening to the news on the radio this morning – they’re all implying that Shane Jones leaving Labour has weakened Labour. This is, of course, BS. National must be concerned about Labour losing its biggest footnmouth.
Internet freedom being threatened in censorship plan in TPP( I guess this is no news to many here but just in case)
“We know from leaked documents that this secretive plan will censor your use of the Internet and strip away your rights…If finalized, this plan would force ISPs to act as “Internet Police” monitoring our Internet use, censoring content, and removing whole websites”
The TPP is nothing more than the politicians giving even more power to the global corporates so that they can stick their teeth even further into our necks.
They say that Jones espoused “traditional working class values”.
I cannot understand how giving the extractive industries free reign to take our natural resources (ie rip them out and leave stinking toxic crap behind, like that old tailings dam at Te Aroha), as long as a few token brown faces are on the payroll are “traditional working class values”.
What happened in the West Coast mining industry during the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s was an effort for the “traditional working class” to have some measure of control/ownership over that industry, and ensure the benefits were more widely spread than they are now. And yes, environmental and health and safety regulations were a part of it. Neoliberalism not withstanding, conditions for mining workers are way better than they were 80 years ago.
Now that Shane Jones will soon out of the Labour caucus, we will all now see the contrast that his views have with the views of the Party.
His valedictory speech will give the first indication.
The guy’s a suit-wearing Harvard-educated senior fisheries manager. What’s “working class” about that? His engagement with Maori is also mainly with the iwi elite rather than the flaxroots.
I’m delighted he has found something more useful to do with himself. The way it’s happened is like the rest of his career – all about what’s good for spoilt little boy Shane rather than his party or his people.
Hooton spinning at the speed of light on RadioNZ NIne to Noon this morning, claiming ”it will be that much more difficult for Winston Peters to sign NZFirst up to a Labour/Green coalition without Jones being in the Parliament”,
My last conversation here at the Standard with wee Matty featured a couple of these, 🙄 ,His latest laughable attempts at political analysis deserves little better, 🙄 , 🙄 , 🙄 …
Meanwhile – keeping the political blowtorch on the Minister for CORRUPTION – Judith Collins ..
OIA acknowledgment from Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully’s Ministerial Secretary received 9.25am today 23 April 2014:
Dear Ms Penny Bright,
On behalf of Hon Murray McCully, Minister of Foreign Affairs, thank you for your correspondence of 22 April requesting information regarding any involvement of the New Zealand Ambassador to China in Minister Collins’ Oravida dinner.
You will receive a reply within 20 working days as required by the Official Information Act.
Yours sincerely,
Holly
Holly Bennett | Ministerial Secretary | Office of Hon Murray McCully
Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister for Sport and Recreation
6.1 Executive Wing Beehive | Parliament Buildings | Wellington 6160 | New Zealand
22 April 2014
NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs
Murray McCully
‘Open Letter’ /OIA request to NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs Murray McCully – what was the involvement of the NZ Ambassador to China (Carl Worker) in Judith Collins’ ‘private’ Oravida dinner?
Dear Minister,
Please provide the following information which confirms;
1) Who invited Carl Worker, the NZ Ambassador to China, to this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?
2) Why the NZ Ambassador to China, Carl Worker, declined to attend this Oravida ‘private’ dinner.
3) In what capacity did Minister of Justice Judith Collins speak “.. to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.
ie: As a private citizen, or as the Minister for Justice?
4) Did Judith Collins speak to Carl Worker in his capacity as NZ Ambassador to China, regarding this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?
5) Please provide copies of ALL information, ‘briefing notes’ / emails / notes of telephone messages/ memos / minutes /reports (and the like)
between Judith Collins (Minister for Justice) and Carl Worker (NZ Ambassador to China) relating to this matter.
“Justice Minister Judith Collins has recovered her memory after telling Parliament she could not recall whether she had briefed New Zealand’s ambassador to Beijing about her Oravida dinner.
…..
In Parliament’s last session before a two-week recess, she again refused to identify the official she dined with, said she did not know of Oravida’s difficulties in the Chinese market before the dinner, and said she could not remember whether she had briefed ambassador to Beijing Carl Worker about the dinner.
She told the Weekend Herald she didn’t believe she had spoken about the dinner to Mr Worker beyond an initial discussion beforehand when he said he would not attend.
But on Thursday evening, she said she had checked her notes and believed she had spoken to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.
She said Mr Worker had asked her on the day of the dinner to just let him know if there was anything that he needed to know about.
…….”
Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright
……………………
…………………….
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate, polling 4th with 11,723 votes campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region
Not as long as Auckland Council fails to follow the RULE OF LAW and tell us EXACTLY where rates monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors.
(Public Records Act 2005 s.17)
I’m making a stand on principle that cannot be ignored.
Did I get paid for the work I put in to help stop the RORT of Metrowater ‘charitable payments’?
(From which Auckland City Council planned to take $320 million in the form of increased Metrowater price rises for water and wastewater services over a ten year period, in order to subsidise rates).
Nope.
In 2010, I got a ‘Good Citizens’ award for service to the community.
So National get rid of deadwood before the next election (except for T Ryall whos a big loss) and the lefties proclaim it as a sign Nationals in trouble
S Jones stands down to work for a government created role…wonder who he thinks will win the next election 🙂
I think he’s finally realised that he won’t win the next leadership election, regardless of how the general election goes. Finally picked which way the wind is blowing in the party.
How many nats are leaving – a dozen? more?
How many labour folks have announced their departure? 1? 2? 3? Even percentage-wise, I reckon there’s a bit of a difference between the two.
“How many labour folks have announced their departure? 1? 2? 3? Even percentage-wise, I reckon there’s a bit of a difference between the two.”
Of course there is, National MPs generally go off and earn more in the private sector whereas for those on the left parliament is the best they’re ever going to do (with one or two notable exceptions) so they stay as long as they can
Again, your argument is that the main reason someone will choose between elected service, basic public service, or the private sector is money.
Some folks have actually turned down higher-paying work in favour of lower-paying work that has some value to society. But you wouldn’t be able to comprehend that.
But the nats assure us that teachers are well paid, on like $70k after only a few yearsd experience…
Seriously, you’re a muppet. Do you really think that after all his years in government mallard couldn’t walk into an equivalently-paying private sector job – especially considering the amount of work expected from folk like Doug Graham. Not to mention the fact that he’s probably accrued a nice cushion to retire on, anyway.
If you’re still chasing coin after almost 30 years in parliament, you’ve most likely got either a gambling habit or a drug habit. Which makes the large volume of nat ship-jumpers somewhat interesting.
Finally the tide has turned and the people of NZ now see John Keyas the left see him and everyone will now turn to Labour to deliver us from the evil of National
Labour can do all it wants but as long as The New Zealand Herald continues with its CONCERTED attacks against Labour, we will continue to go down in the Polls.
This article about a tweet from 2011 is the NZ Heralds number 1 story…arseholes. They really hate Labour Policy and will do anything to ensure they don’t win in September. All to do with CGT.
Its a bollocks beat up story, but shouldn’t this crap have come out in the Tukituki selection process to show that perhaps this person MIGHT NOT BE AN IDEAL CANDIDATE for Labour??!
Which does suggest this is a high stakes elections for the people who own the Herald.
One more win will mean….
the signing of the TPPA
the privatisation of health and education
More private prisons
Buller region experience a ” 1 in 500-year” battering from five days of storms.
Dunne quibbles that new synthetics to the market since the current legislation are behind the reports of concerns over their harms, with only 6 of 71 Local body councils regulating their sale so far. He quotes Time magazine article stating that synthetic drug manufacture and prohibition is a ‘cat-and-mouse game’ worldwide.
Obama on Francis- “he projects the humility and kindness I associate with Jesus”.
The US sends 600 troops to Poland and other nations sharing borders with Russia.The acting Ukrainian government calls for further ‘anti-terrorism’ action in the eastern pro-Russian cities.
A U commission is investigating if NZ ACC claimants are experiencing justice.
Philj
yes and three or four others..fismi, pukrogue tin hat and others i can’t remember who contribute nothing to the otherwise informed debate on this website.Ignore and don’t respond to their simplistic jibes.. Respond only to those who present reasoned arguments with or against your views.
I now skim these people just as I skip trivial adverts on tv.
What next?…..
Some news from 2014, not 2011.
Or maybe some balanced journalism.
A story about the corrupt practices of Judith Collins.
Or an investigation into the TPPA
Or an investigation into child poverty.
were the rolly eyes before or after watching the link. I’m picking before. 😉
If so thats a big part of the problem we face as a society – apathy
Given that what she’s talking about is supposedly a matter of pblic record in the USA it is quite concerning
wasted my time on some of it, actually. Got bored when she claimed that all the programmes she was talking about were on the public record but had no public oversight.
Wow Just heard Bill Shorten Australian Labor leader declare that he wants to make Labor no longer the political wing of the union movement. The complete opposite of New Zealand Labour which is just a gaggle of interest groups controlled by union hacks and led by someone without majority support in caucus.
fishy smelly as usual
I thought I heard on Radio this a.m. that Oz people can’t belong to their Labor Party if they are not in a union. Can someone confirm or correct me on this please.
It’s horrendous to think that partners of people who’ve committed fraud can be criminalised even if they did not know about the offending, which the Act now it’s been passed will allow (and assuming of course there is in fact a relationship in the nature of marriage which is another huge problem because nine times out of ten Work and Income get that wrong). Few people commented on this because all focus went on the liability for repayment resting largely on women, which it does. but if this is the problem then it should have been dealt with in terms of civil liability, not criminalisation for a dishonesty offence when the accused is not required to have knowledge of the offending. This is horrendously bad law.
What’s equally disturbing though, and again it wasn’t largely talked about and in some ways is worse, is the removal of Work and Income’s ability not to recover debt. It’s probably beyond your average Labour MP to comprehend but this has to be a new low in NZ’s lawmaking history.
Labour significantly reduced the ability for debt to be written off back in 2002. Now they’ve supported legislation that goes even further by saying that all debt must be recovered (apart from the very small proportion of debt arising from error and where the person has received the payment in good faith etc). This latest legislation also allows for minimum repayment levels to be prescribed depending on how the debt was incurred. Currently there’s a discretion that allows for debt repayment to be either suspended, deferred or at the very least set at rates that take into account personal circumstances including hardship etc. From July even that discretion is gone. This is in effect a benefit cut because there’s no ability not to reduce the level of payment a person receives. And Labour said yes to this.
Surely we need to send the message to Labour that we cannot give them support until they show they’ve changed their stance towards the vulnerable. Despite all of David Cunliffe’s bluster upon becoming leader their support for this Bill shows nothing has changed at all.
We all trusted Labour following the Shipley/Richardson years only to see the poor regularly shafted by Labour throughout nine years under Helen Clark. Are we going to sit by and let Labour under Cunliffe do it all again? What happened to his “I’m all about change” speech?
Seeing Labour supporting this Bill is sickening. It’s complete irony that the biggest problem for the poor in New Zealand is the Labour Party. The plight of the vulnerable in this country cannot change until Labour changes, and Labour will not change unless they know we do not support them. I think it’s time Labour were sent this message.
I can’t believe the shallow responses by some of the Labour MPs. And they expect us to vote for them? Labour is looking more and more like something out of Monty Python every day.
Labour’s left is starting to look like a left wing kiwi version of the tea party. They would rather purity in opposition than have to work with those who think differently. They would rather preside over a utopia of ashes than actually take power.
And like the tea party, if they are unable to compromise and work with people who are not ideologically pure, they will doom their party to dysfunction and the opposition benches.
It seems the Labour left is more interested in finding heretics than converts. I can understand that Jones was never left enough for the party membership, but he was effective at talking to people outside the liberal hack bubble.
Whether you like or agree with Jones is irrelevant. Labour have lost a solid performer. He is a Māori leader who appeals to soft National voters.
The political reality is seemingly beyond the grasp of the party’s left- the Left cannot win without growing it’s vote and taking votes from the Right. We can push turnout all we like, but without eating into John Key’s support, we will always struggle. The party needs to appeal to people who have different values.
But the party’s left doesn’t want to appeal to those who think differently; it wants those people to change their views.
that’s an interesting blog title, well-written and argued piece.
“An ideology is more or less a coherent set of ideas that provides the basis for organized political action , COHERENT, whether this is intended to preserve, modify or overthrow the existing system of power (Neo-liberal capitalist economics for example) 😉 .All ideologies therefore,
a, offer an account or worldview of the existing order
b, advance a model of a desired future (eg, less inequality and discrimination)
and
c, explain how political change can and should be brought about (eg, CGT, Financial transaction tax)
Ideology brings about two kinds of synthesis: between understanding and commitment, and between thought and action; in relation to the first synthesis, the fusion of understanding and commitment, ideology blurs the distinction between what ‘is’ and ‘what should be’.
I’m an ex diesel mechanic, former harley rider, and general nature lovin’ bloke, yet Shane Jones was too narrow-minded, outspoken and a liability for this Labour supporter. Half the population are wimmen, dontcha know.
Pete, and Trotter, and Tamihere, and anyone else who thinks Jones is relevant are all working from a caricature of a template of an idea of a working person from the 1950s, which was about the last time they ever rubbed shoulders with the commoners.
Insultingly they assume working people are all bigots, all whiteys, and yep, all blokes.
You’re show some idiocy here felix, making things up again. I’ve never claimed Jones has anything to do with working people and I don’t assume anything like that about working people. Your claim is idiotic, but that’s what you do.
It’s not as if you stand by your bull felix. I simply quoted someone because it was relevant to discussions, you deliberately misquote and misrepresent.
And resorting to abuse when you’re called on it doesn’t help you.
And of course there are no, for example, gay workers, because those are two different demographics. And gays all think the same, just like workers all think the same.
The US are examining allegations that the Syrian govt. have carried out six attacks using chlorine gas. They are being utilized to drive people out of rebel-held cities with the govt. banking on international silence. US defense commentator suggests investigations won’t begin until current surrendered stocks are destroyed.
and Shane Jones? Always something fishy about that man.
Keeping focused with the anti-corruption blowtorch ……
As a proven ‘anti-corruption’ campaigner, in my considered opinion, there is significant and growing public concern about Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ ACTUAL ‘conflict of interest’ regarding her role in promoting/ endorsing her friends and husband’s company – Oravida.
Just as with DODGY John Banks, NZ Prime Minister John Key AGAIN, is defending the indefensible?
Seen this?
Seems that unfortunately for Cameron Slater, Judith Collins and Prime Minister John Key, there are actually a growing number of New Zealanders who do ‘care a stuff about who people have dinner with’ :
Ambassador to China had asked minister to inform him what was discussed at dinner.
Judith Collins insists the Beijing dinner was a private occasion. Photo / Michael CraigJudith Collins insists the Beijing dinner was a private occasion. Photo / Michael Craig
New Zealand’s ambassador to China, Carl Worker, asked Judith Collins to tell him of anything he needed to know about the Beijing dinner with an unnamed senior Chinese border control official, which the Justice Minister insists was a private social occasion.
Ms Collins has refused to answer questions about the dinner late last year, attended by her friends and Oravida bosses Stone Shi and Julia Xu, on the grounds it was a private dinner.
But after denying in Parliament last week that she had spoken about the dinner with Mr Worker, she later told the Herald that she had not only discussed it with him afterwards, but he had also asked her to keep him informed of what was discussed.
“He’d said to me on the Sunday, just let him know if there was anything he needed to know about.”
……
This issue is NOT going away.
It is a DISGRACE.
There is a LOT more to come …..
Penny Bright
Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (who polled 4th with 11,723 votes, campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region)
Poorer Benefit is also the Local Bodies Minister. WTF This is an important role, that of central government liaising and working with our local politicians – our at home, neighbourhood politics. Not some young Jenny-come-lately.
She has a big portfolio with WINZ and this is a big enough job for one person to concentrate on, and she could be doing more about finding projects that would be of benefit to the country from people on benefits working on them. A virtuous circle. But no she shows very little concern, has done the minimum to provide thoughtful support for those on welfare. And so has time for working on her profile for photo ops,
Looks like the leftover arseholes in the Labour caucus should just fuck off.
Damien Oconnor, Clayton Cosgrove you two rightwing pricks should have no home in the Labour party.
And good fucking riddance to the tory masturbator Shane Jones! What a piece of shit he is! Still a few more wankers to go but he was the worst offender.
Radio Live on now and accusing the Nats/Shane Jones of corruption – about time the media stepped up and did their job. Have been listening to the radio most of the day and this is the first I have heard the media state that Shane Jones is immoral. Timothy Giles is the host and is talking good sense.
Just read an old message from ‘Jenny’ which I think contains wisdom.
Jenny said….”The strategy for the Left is clear. National is more Left than ACT, Left voters in Epsom would ..( read ‘should’) choose National over ACT every time.”
If Epsom left voters had followed this logic last time we might have had a Labour led government now…and wouldn’t have the Banks/Key subterfuge…..BUT… my left leaning friends in Epsom couldn’t bear to vote National in the last election and either voted Labour or stayed home.
They should at least consider Jenny’s logic
What happens in September in Epsom, could decide whether Cunliffe or Key determines the governance of our country.
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Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
I was initially resistant to the idea often suggested to me that the Government should deliver an arts strategy. The whole point of the arts and creativity is that people should do whatever the hell they want, unbound by the dictates of politicians in Wellington. Peter Jackson, Kiri Te Kanawa, Eleanor ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question?Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 26 April appeared first on Newsroom. ...
You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Questions for Pete George, assuming he has time to comment today:
Pete said:
weka said
Take your time, Pete. But please don’t go clogging up the threads any further until you’ve addressed these important questions.
hes pretending he doesnt know who he is going to vote for, so probably alot of time is being spent researching that.
we should all help cos his fact checking…
😈 😆
Like it.
Hell Felix I hope you are not holding your breath. Weka is still waiting for his answers, and his questions are about 4 days old. And don’t forget he is very busy checking facts for Politicheck.
Felix, I was impressed you beat him to the draw today.
Well I am an early bird, and he…
I’ve taken my time and have posted a response – Answering weka’s questions.
Very tricky pete – I spose a few new pageviews can’t hurt eh.
To me that encapsulates the problem with asking you questions – the answer is, well, a nothing answer really.
And your proposed solution is?
Perhaps weka can outline how he thinks an entitlement to a livable income could work, with examples of how similar policies have worked elsewhere in the world.
Or perhaps you could answer the questions directly, as put to you.
More rubbish eh pete – at least you’re recycling and reusing
Hey Pete
You make a lot of sense. It’s probably wasted on these people; they simply have too much hate to even try to understand and allow themselves to develop. Good on you for trying though 🙂
Why do we have to go to your blog, to see your answers to questions that were part of a discussion here?
PG’s answers:
Cost. I presume there’s many more people on benefits now. At the end of March 2014: 295,320 working-age* people were receiving a main benefit. (MSD).
And wanting to encourage people into paid employment.
Their Income Support Policy states “The Green Party supports a full and wide-ranging public debate on the nature of UBI and the details of a UBI system, and government funding for detailed studies of the impacts of UBI. The Green Party will: Investigate the implementation of a Universal Basic Income for every New Zealander”. They are interested in the concept (as I am) but don’t say they want one.
It doesn’t disqualify me from anything. I have already said that some people on benefits cannot seek employment. Both Labour and National governments want to encourage those who can seek employment to do so.
I’ve also already said that if the number of people on benefits is substantially reduced then those who have to remain on benefits should be able to be provided for better.
I don’t have to do anything. I don’t know what point you are trying to make with this.
Some current details are here at MSD.
I think it’s reasonable to expect that those who are capable of working should be seeking paid employment and taking responsibility for their own welfare.
I acknowledge that it can be very difficult finding work that people want with the pay they want. Some are more motivated than others. Some people have unrealistic expectations but for many there simply aren’t enough jobs.
They live how they live. It’s very tough for many. Others find a way manage.
You tell me why you think they should be entitled to a ‘livable income’.
Ideally everyone should have an income that makes living not too much of a struggle. But expecting everyone should have comfortable style of living without having any money problems is fanciful and idealistic.
Life can be hard work and bills can be difficult to manage, especially if you have children. We should strive for better and easier but it can never always be guaranteed or provided,
They’re not, some are partly employed. There’s a range of reasons why beneficiaries could be unemployed, including circumstance, health, choice, lack of alternatives and a shortage of jobs.
Some can supplement their benefit. Some could be more flexible in what work they seek and where they seek it (that’s difficult for many). And there are not enough jobs for many. That’s one thing benefits are designed to assist with.
You’ll have to be more specific, I’ve made a number of comments related to that.
I don’t believe that in general National (or Act) want to “keep people poor”. The effect of Government policies (Labour and National) may be that some people stay poor, but I question whether any MP wants to ‘keep people poor’.
All parties propose economic growth with the intention of improving incomes and increasing the number of jobs.
But waving a money wand and waving a job wand aren’t realistic options.
Can you show any country in the world where giving everyone “enough to live on” has succeeded over a period of years or decades.
Poverty is a problem that needs to be addressed as well as possible, but Government giving substantially more money to people with productive work being an unpressured option is unlikely to succeed if history and current world conditions are anything to go on.
But perhaps weka can outline how he thinks an entitlement to a livable income could work, with examples of how similar policies have worked elsewhere.
Thanks, Karol. The answers show Pete to be just another empathy free Tory, the method of answering shows him to be a desperate link whore.
+1
There’s also more people working so that doesn’t work.
Which is the wrong way of looking at these things as it requires that there be employers first. What we should be doing is encouraging and supporting people to create their own work either as individuals or as cooperatives. This, of course, is where a UBI really shines and why a lot of people in power will reject it as it removes the force of poverty.
Actually PG, it can be provided – as soon as we get rid of the rich and move to a stable state economy.
National and Act do as it’s the force of poverty that ensures that people will work for them and thus make them richer without them actually having to create any wealth. I specifically remember that when National lowered the UB it was so that the low minimum wage was seen as being better than staying on the dole. Labour probably don’t but their support for capitalism will ensure that they do.
As we should all know by now is a) physically impossible and b) hasn’t worked anytime in the past.
“Why do we have to go to your blog, to see your answers to questions that were part of a discussion here?”
You don’t have to go anywhere, it’s your choice.
The discussions and questions were all over the place here in a variety of threads. It can get very messy and difficult to follow. I was being asked to respond in many places. It was easier to collate it in a single post at a single point. And it’s a good point of reference and library, that’s what I often use my blog for.
I don’t mind that you copied and posted the full post here, I’ve heard it’s not the done thing but I hope the moderators cut you a bit of slack on this.
🙄
Shorter Petty George: “Me, me, me, me, me.”
dear Pete, why was presenting it here as a Guest Post not an option?
Thanks for drafting some answers.
“The discussions and questions were all over the place here in a variety of threads. It can get very messy and difficult to follow. I was being asked to respond in many places. It was easier to collate it in a single post at a single point. “
Uh huh. Of course you could have just answered the questions as directed to you, and no-one would have reposted them for days and days in different places as they chased your dishonest ass around the site while you pretended not to notice them, Mr ‘far too busy to respond to this but plenty of time to post that.
🙄
weka: And then explain how unemployed beneficiaries are supposed to raise their income via employment when there aren’t enough jobs.
Pete: “Some can supplement their benefit”
yeah, how exactly does that work Pete? Those on a Jobseeker benefit can only earn $80 a week gross, before they are then taxed at 70c in the dollar.
When existing on a Jobseeker benefit, being able to work a whole six hours a week does not really change a person’s circumstance and it still leaves that rather large issue of there not being enough jobs in the first place.
Now you have responded to weka’s questions, (it cannot be said you have really answered anything) will you be starting work on your budget for poor people?
To say nothing of the other entitlements get cut toot suite as well, like the Accommodation benefit.
In addition, people with assets other than their home over $8,000 are not eligible for Accommodation Supplement. Which means that the govt expects people to sell assets and use their savings before they get adequate benefit. That’s fine for people that are short term unemployed and go into a job that pays well enough for them to start saving again, but for anyone cycling on and off the benefit/temp or casual jobs that isn’t possible. It’s also not possible for people on sickness/invalids or DPB, which are all long term benefits. This is another way in which people are made more poor by state policy.
Would you post a summary here please?
Weka: a valid question
Pete George: womble wimble wamble
Weka: a valid question
Pete George: wimble wamble womble
Weka: a valid question
Pete George: wamble womble wimble
Weka: a valid question
Pete George: womble wimble wamble
etc etc etc
No Pete, your “answers” consist largely of “I don’t have to answer that, I’d rather talk about (x) instead”.
There is a logic sequence at play in weka’s questions, Pete. It’s not a buffet, it’s “if, then, so”.
If you can’t answer the “if” and “then”, you don’t get to make up a “so”.
If you don’t understand this you should step down as Factmaster General immediately, it’s really basic stuff.
+1
The fact is that you and weka et al don’t have a viable alternative, or at least you don’t have one that you’re prepared to give details of or evidence that it has worked elsewhere.
🙄
No viable alternative.
What an asshole.
Why has no New Zealand political party detailed a UBI in their policy?
Where is evidence of a UBI being applied and maintained and being successful?
Do you understand that is not how change is forged?
With folk like you around, always waiting to see what someone else did first, women would never have gotten the vote. Weasel around that one Pete!
Generally change like that is forged in Parliament via party policies and bills and majority votes. I would support Greens if they tried to push their investigation of a UBI but I don’t know if they would get sufficient support where it counted.
The only thing from Labour that comes close is in this post from Stuart Nash:
But there’s no indication that’s close to Labour policy and there’s nothing on it that I can find on their website.
If you have an alternate realistic way of forging on this I’m interested to find out.
In the case of women getting the vote it was driven by the populace – not the MPs. This can be said of many policies throughout our history.
Petty George, if you read the UBI posts and comments here you’d already have the solution to your ignorance of this matter. Google is your friend, asshole. I’m not doing your research for you.
It was tried for a few years in Canada.
It showed some positive outcomes, and very few negative ones.
It has never been tried long term because there is not the political will by those with power. ie for the very reasons given by some here as to why those with power want to keep people on benefit levels that keep them at subsistence levels or below.
Why do you keep asking new questions without actually engaging with the debate?
The Green Party have as policy, for the UBI to be looked at in depth.
Why is your mind closed to new policy initiatives?
I’ve said a number of times (including on this thread today) that I’m open to the concept of a UBI – and to a major restructuring and simplification of our tax and social welfare systems and I would support this if Greens pushed for it to be investigated.
That Greens promote an investigation only suggests it would be complex, a challenge to find out the best way of doing it and possibly difficult to achieve.
I quoted the same as you have here in my post (that you copy/pasted).
Newsflash, dipshit, your “support” amounts to a party vote and an electorate vote. Which will you give to The Greens?
Or were you talking about your inconsequential dribbling? That isn’t supportive.
There’s other ways of supporting political initiatives other than the election. I’m working with Greens on something of mutual interest at the moment.
By the way, your abusive nature doesn’t help your message.
He’s lecturing me on how to express naked hostility and contempt now.
NOOoooooooo, now George wants to pollute the Green Party with his total transparency,
Spill this little something you are working with ‘the greens’ on George or it can only be taken by your recent trail of comments covering a week that you are now attempting an ‘over-coat’ change, flailing round for support from the Greens who regularly appear at the Standard,
The thought of Petty as a Green makes me automatically do this, 🙄 , 🙄 ,and this, 🙄 …
” I’m working with Greens on something of mutual interest at the moment.”
Can anyone from The Greens confirm this?
Don’t need details, just confirmation your statement is factual.
Pete George: ” I’m working with Greens on something of mutual interest at the moment”
fyi, I have emailed The Greens office asking for comment/confirmation on this rather weighty statement you made earlier today.
It is neither complex nor difficult to do. The problem is that the politicians do as they’re told by the business community and the business community don’t want it.
Herbert Macuse, the most widely known member of the Frankfurt School, mainly German neo-Marxists who fled the Nzs, many settling eventually in the US argued in One Dimensional Man (1964) that advanced industrial society has developed a ‘totalitarian’ character in the capacity of it’s ideology to manipulate thought and deny expression to oppositional views; or, in other words Consent is Manufactured -Chomsky.
By manufacturing false needs and turning humans into voracious consumers, modern societies are able to paralyse criticism through the spread of comparatively stultifying affluence. According to Marcuse, even the apparent tolerance of liberal capitalism serves a repressive purpose, in that it creates the impression of free debate and argument, thereby concealing the extent to which indoctrination and ideological control occur.
I think I could probably agree with that. It’s similar to what The Century of the Self said.
Because either they’re really stupid and/or support the application of the Force of Poverty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome
And why is it that you RWNJs always insist that it has to have been tried before and been successful? We need change and change, more often than not, means doing something that hasn’t been done before.
I don’t insist (but I’m not a RWNJ). But it helps to have seen how something might work elsewhere.
I agree though that sometimes change requires doing something that hasn’t been done before. That has greater risks of unintended and unwelcome consequences. I guess that’s why Greens call for an investigation rather than push a specific policy on it.
Most here George will agree on the abbreviated NJ, just where you fit in the political spectrum seems to depend on whichever way the wind blows…
😈 😆
The nature of your question shows that a) yes you do and that b) yes you are.
So “viable alternatives” are only those that are party policies or those that have been done before?
But wait, apparently even though dignified benefit levels have been done before, they can’t be done now because of “cost”.
What about green party policy of income support, which includes investigating a UBI – do you think a UBI should be investigated?
At the moment it seems you have an incredibly closed mind. Even though you pretend to embrace other points of view, you find contradictory excuses to discount anything that helps the poor, or anything that seeks to control alcohol and gambling, or anything that will take power from the rich.
It seems you have incredibly closed eyes. I’ve commented on the Greens and UBI several times here plus in the original post.
Yeah, your waffle does tend to merge onto a morass of grey.
So we can’t afford to pay decent benefit levels, but we might be able to afford a decent UBI?
You do realise that the UBI will be by definition bigger than humane benefit levels…
Quentin Todd at yournz:
Just passing this on.
The fact is you’re a troll who attempts to derail threads with waffle.
You’d make a great nact MP PG you’ve got the art of tory BS and diversion down pat, and as TRP states ‘…just another empathy free Tory’
Pete you need to get hold of the bigger picture first, before diving blindfolded into the detail. I suspect that is half the problem for you. You simply do not have a big picture of how you see society should function – you simply bounce here and flounce here and wonder this and wander that. It is no wonder that others tire and get frustrated at your bouncing flouncing wondering and wandering.
For mine own big picture I picture a small village….
In that small village all people conspire to create a good shelter for each village member to inhabit and good food for each to live on. This is done, as it always had been in most all of human past, in a cooperative manner (you know, like NZ’s biggest businesses do). This then ensures that each person is provided for and healthy, and hence the entire village is at its peak strength, or rather, without any structural weakness by way of a weak link. This is the base, the starting point, the main foundation stone ……
For Nact types their big picture is nothing like this and their thinking is to be deplored… For Nact types it is every member for himself…. …. Imagine a small village where every member is for himself Pete. Imagine it if you can ….. it is like NZ today …. no wonder our foundation stones are failing …. the basis of human existence is undermined and non-existent.
vto – I agree with your small village ideal. I grew up in a rural/village environment.
But even small villages have practical problems in real life. And the larger villages/towns/cities get the greater the chance of problems and the greater the problems.
There are some attempts being made to get village thinking into cities but it’s challenging, especially in a modern society that’s very mobile and very connected communications often over large distances.
A good place to practice the village way and to spread the ideal by example would be on a blog like this, wouldn’t it? Where are differences are accepted and respected, and debated with decency?
“But even small villages have practical problems in real life. And the larger villages/towns/cities get the greater the chance of problems and the greater the problems.”
whooooosh
and yet again, vto’s point sails over Pete George’s head
it’s called a Robin Hood tax (or use any of the alternate titles that are out there)
Every transaction is taxed
no if buts or maybes
no exemptions
no outs
no hidey holes
Simply put, you tax turnover, not profits.
You want a UBI you pay a very small % tax on every thing you do. Something in the region of 0.1% would suffice. Be it buying a loaf of bread, paying a rates bill, trading a fortune in currency bonds or mining a national forest park. Want to write off a few hundred million in assets so your profit isn’t so high… you pay the tax first.
Simply put, you tax turnover, not just profits.
It is administered as the principal tax before any existing tax processes are enacted. I.e: before any other tax is accounted for or paid. The very small % tax is then directed solely into a UBI fund. You only have to look at the Cullen Fund for an example of how much money these funds can generate once established.
Once adopted, the UBI Tax is collected for a full year to establish a base fund, before being released as a UBI of approximately $15k per person per year.
Yes it is an additional tax to p.a.y.e.
yes it is an additional tax to g.s.t.
yes it is an additional tax to kiwisaver.
But, at its most basic level it means that Corporations and Trusts cannot hide their vast sums behind an accountants’ wizardry. Simply put, you tax turnover, not just profits.
Just think how much the Casino and Lotto scams will deliver to the coffers every year.
Then consider the banks and the currency traders. The very industries that will argue most strongly against this idea are the same industries that are the most risky to our economy in the first place. IMHO, The money traders, the stock markets, the bankers will hate it and their consequent reduction in risky or unnecessary activity could translate to a more stable and sustainable economy. We try something new or we continue the cycles of deprivation and bailouts that have peppered the last thirty years.
Is this all an overly simplistic explanation of an incredibly complex issue? Absolutely!
Do I claim to be an expert, not at all, but I am a person who can state honestly that I put ideas on the table, not excuses.
To build something new Pete, you have to do that one thing you seem incapable of …
you have to take an honest step forward into unknown territory.
was a worthy read imo freedom.
+1
Yes, but how much money will a 0.1% tax actually generate?
more than not having one generates 🙂
all funnies aside Lanthanide, many many billions are lost to this country every year as money is siphoned out of our economy, not declared as profit, written off as devalued assets, swapped between trusts and generally just fiddled with to keep taxes as low as possible. This has to be addressed.
To be clear, my actual preference would be a Robin Hood tax of closer to 1%
Obviously 15k per person, even in a small population like NZ is a huge amount of cash for the Government to pay out. An alternative to receiving a UBI payment is maybe those who are employed choose to receive it as a tax free allowance, so the first 15k of income tax is forgiven. That is the first 15k of tax due, not 15k of income. That way those earning well don’t have any reason to bludgeon those receiving the UBI payment directly. The Robin Hood tax would still apply to all transactions, as would income tax on those receiving the UBI.
I think somewhere in there is a workable solution to the problem, but I am not an expert and if all I have done is supplied some giggles to economists then fine, but all I know is what the experts keep doing does not seem to be working.
@ freedom..
..+ 1..
🙄
well done shane
youve let national get collins off the hook.
all the righties who are posting how much this will damage labour and who agree with much of what jones has said… think about those 2 things and how they might be a contradiction.
I vote green so it doesnt hurt mt preference.
maybe one day labour will wake up and remember this nation doesnt need national lite.
Too many Labour MPs are still wedded ot the 80s
Now if only he would Take bloody Mallard with him as a gofer.
+1
i wd prefer goff to go..
..esp since finding out he was on that cosy little pacific islands tour with mccully/jones..
..where/when mccully made his first offer to jones..
..mccully..jones..goff..
..all singing from the same neo-lib song-sheet…
..there is yr grand-coalition between nats/lab already in action..
..you can barely slide a cigarette paper between the neo-lib/right in labour..
..and the nacts..
The timing of Jones leaving could not be worse. Had he left 6 months ago or waited up until after the election, it would be less suspicious. This was timed so he can inflict maximum damage to Labour’s election chances this year. I can only imagine a field day the Nats will have in Parliament at question time, every answer will contain a jibe about Jones and the Labour Party in disarray. And the media, talkback radio etc…
With MPs like Jones, Labour doesn’t need enemies.
Agree. A very poor showing by Jones. Acting in bad faith is what is exposed by his actions, timing and the like.
A man to be very wary of. Not to be trusted.
I caught Kelvin Davis phone interview on First Line this morning.
It was a confident and assured performance, and making it look like he will hit the ground running, making for a smooth transition.
Jones resigning nearer the election would have been worse. It’s also fortunate that Davis is next in line – did he say he would be leading the Maori caucus?
If so then I think it’s going to backfire on whomever planned it. It’s been widely accepted for a long time that Jones was more National aligned than Labour.
& also generally accepted that kelvin davis is a very able & intelligent & talented guy, this could turn out to be a blessing in disguise for labour (or at least i hope someone is spinning it hard as such). watch out hone is all i can say (& im a mana supporter).
well said amirite
Just heard rnz person Jane Patterson saying, in the same breath, that:
a) Labour is too much about gays and unions, and
b) Labour is not enough about blue collar workers.
Who the fuck do these people think unions are?
When is Cunliffe’s next big speech, and can we finally have one about the economy please?
And ideally do it on the day Jones leaves?
And can we have some memorable lines, some actual passion, and some fries with that?
Get back on the horse Cunliffe. Ain’t no other PM I want.
+1.
five minutes from now it’ll be ‘shane who?’…
..the supermarket-duopoly issue isn’t shane jones..
..it’s the supermarket duopoly issue..
..and his achievements in those nine years..?
..waiting..waiting…
..he will get a footnote as man in wrong party..
(national or nz first are his natural homes..)
..who serially over-promised/under-delivered..
..and had the laziest man in parliament award in his pocket most years..
..(as noted elsewhere he has been spokesperson for maori affairs since the death of parekura horomia..
..and who knew..?..eh..?..)
..his leadership tilt was a (tory/oil-company-funded) rightwing spoiling action..
..and was a joke…
..and it will be his auto-eroticism/laziness/disruption that will mark any memories..
..as he sprays his way out the door..
Just don’t buy into their framing of this.
Jones is just one man – and Labour is a lot bigger than anyone one person. (Unlike National who would be nothing without Key at the moment.)
Jones has every right to determine his own future. He’s given a lot of time and energy to the Party for many years and he deserves credit and thanks for that. But commitment comes with a price, and he’s looked at the where he stands and made his choice to leave with dignity.
It’s still some months out from the election and while it would have been better to have timed it sooner; perhaps that was beyond his control. And of course you cannot help but ponder the Machiavellian role McCully may well have played here. It would have been way worse for Labour and Jones to have slogged through an election when his heart was not in it.
As for the ‘party in disarray and shock’ nonsense – just treat it with the utter contempt it deserves. Sure there will be some people who are surprised, some disappointed, and someone is bound to say something stupid – that is the nature of politics everywhere.
Never ever give away your power to your enemy.
“And of course you cannot help but ponder the Machiavellian role McCully may well have played here.”
True. We know what he was offered to leave. We don’t know what he was threatened with should he stay.
Jones has clearly stated that the offer isn’t why he decided to leave. He says he hasn’t decided on the offer yet.
Oh well that’s that then. It’s truly a marvel to see a real live fact-checker at work.
heh..!
Checkpoint last night (after the 6pm TV news). So much for some of the Stuff and NZ Herald claims about no one from Labour being available for comment immediately after the TV announcements of Jones plan to resign.
Coatsworth was interviewed and said Jones had told her a while back that he was contemplating leaving. He told her his decision earlier yesterday. And, there’s also an interview with Matthew Hooton, in which he apparently claims Jones had been talking to him off the record for a while – saying he was unhappy with Labour.
Labour is better off without such a Nat Trojan Horse in their midst. And, actually, Labour were all on message pretty quickly last night. Cunliffe on the Henry show, Coatsworth etc… and then this morning, Kelvin Davis doing itnerviews – all wishing Jones well, praising his time in parliament, and looking forward to Davis’s contribution.
The MSM shows whose sidethey are really on with the way they are spinning it.
Excellent interview with Mary Wilson. She’s so sharp. Makes me wonder when National will try and push her out of Radio NZ
Jones was ‘colourful’. That’s it. Every gain he made is outweighed by his blunders (FFA, he paid for porn with taxpayer money!). The redneck men he appealed to wouldn’t vote Labour anyway. And let’s face it, Davis is both capable and likeable. If Jones is a loss he’s not the fatal one the MSM claim.
(FFA, he paid for porn with taxpayer money!)
Again that’s just buying into their spin. FFS it was all of $20 that was automatically plonked on a credit card hotel bill and Jones had reimbursed back in the normal course of events. It was never anyone’s business but his own.
There are way worse things that people do than watch a few tits and bums on tele.
I really get fucked off by the way so many people get obsessed over piffling panty-sniffing distractions – while oblivious to the main event.
Yep. Jones’ too friendly corporate dealings are of far, far more concern. But people get predictably outraged about the scandalous BS and the MSM are masters of manipulating to that exact principle.
Agree.
The video service was a legal one offered by the hotel, and as it had been reimbursed is a story propelled by the sort of sniggering associated with prepubescent schoolboys. Apologies to all the non-sniggering teenagers out there…
(Porn-watching is not appealing to me as a voter, but think his corporate associations and right-wing views were much more scandalous)
‘It was never anyone’s business but his own.’
I disagree. Watching and funding pornography that degrades and demeans women is behaviour that does not exist in isolation.
That he initially used public money to fund this industry underlines his arrogance, sense of entitlement, lack of boundaries, respect, and empathy. It’s not the only thing, but it’s still relevant.
Where are the reports about David Cunliffe saying that Jones leaving is “all National’s fault” coming from, I’ve heard this repeated all morning on RNZ but they aren’t citing a source at all.
Hooton’s radionz attempt to pretend that Jones ‘ leaving is bad news for Cunliffe is so 12 year old logic that it’s laughable.
But unfortunately it will resonate with some voters who have also the same age level logic as Hooton.
Jones is resigning one job to take up another.
People do it all the time. Linda Clark has just done it.
Some media commentators have just changed jobs.
What’s the big deal?
Really ?
Labour is bigger than just one person? So why has it been an omni shambles since Helen left?
The only parties that aren’t bigger than just one person are The Greens and possibly the Maori party.
lol yeah the maori party is two people.
Yes it will be interesting to see if they survive with pita and tariana.
Will you come over to the greens or will you stay labour till the bitter end?
You mean me? lol I think I might have candidate-voted Labour once. Maybe.
Oh that surprises me.
I thought with all the support you give to labour on this site you’d be a labour man for sure. Who do you think you’ll back at election time ?
[lprent: He does? When? How could I have missed it in the tens of thousand plus comments left by felix?
You are quite mistaken. ]
Probably Green unless they do anything really annoying before September. No promises, but 😉
+1 to all of that RL.
BTW mira – great atavar.
I always did think the Hundertwasser design was by far the best choice.
Ta RL – I’ve always liked it too, and it’s of special significance to me right now as a link between my home and (temporarily) adopted countries.
And Gower this morning as usual blowing it up out of all proportion saying it’s a hugfe conspiricy by McCully Jones and the Nats. Usual Story (bullshit) from Gower.
That’s funny, a good proportion of posters on this blog site are saying the same thing… oh wait, it’s different when the media do it.
Absolutely agree RL. Not to sure of Jones leaving with dignity having must heard him on tv3 saying that Labour was full of geldings. Nice,not. However I do think that Labour should just stick to its’ knitting and keep a dignified silence on the media beat-up. There is nothing for them to answer to. National however may have to answer to public perception as to how ethical they are. Which is not at all. Keys comment that Shane Jones will be a welcome assert to national said it all. He needs to watch his tongue, he will trip over it one day. Also if Labour refuses to participate in keys particularly spiteful, nasty dialogues it will drive him nuts. If he hasn’t got a participating opponent he has nothing.
Enough of Shane Jones, MSM are very upset, I wonder why? Their main inside source is moving on, moving onto to a National Party inspired job, wankers unite, good riddance.
Anyway, is there anyone else out there who feel like slitting their wrists when listening to RNZ new breakfast pair… Im struggling to listen to them without falling back to sleep….
+100…bring back Geoff Robinson and get rid of that soft spoken toadie
Geoff Robinson has retired. Personally, I just catch the Midday report and Checkpoint; too much media noise makes for a grumpy, saturated rogue.
It’s interesting listening to the news on the radio this morning – they’re all implying that Shane Jones leaving Labour has weakened Labour. This is, of course, BS. National must be concerned about Labour losing its biggest footnmouth.
There’s also the underlying theme being pushed by the media that Jones has strong support within the ‘blue collar working class’,
Such a media driven picture of Jones is essentially an interview with either their mirrors or computer screens,
Jones most 3 most famous moments:
Being a Porn watching wanker,(possibly in both senses of the word),
Thinking He could become leader of the Labour Party and coming third in the contest,
Announcing His departure from politics,
From here in the heart of blue collar territory i can only say Jones is being applauded for the latter of His famous moments…
Internet freedom being threatened in censorship plan in TPP( I guess this is no news to many here but just in case)
“We know from leaked documents that this secretive plan will censor your use of the Internet and strip away your rights…If finalized, this plan would force ISPs to act as “Internet Police” monitoring our Internet use, censoring content, and removing whole websites”
https://stopthesecrecy.net/?src=156144
Free open internet is essential for Democracy
The TPP is nothing more than the politicians giving even more power to the global corporates so that they can stick their teeth even further into our necks.
They say that Jones espoused “traditional working class values”.
I cannot understand how giving the extractive industries free reign to take our natural resources (ie rip them out and leave stinking toxic crap behind, like that old tailings dam at Te Aroha), as long as a few token brown faces are on the payroll are “traditional working class values”.
What happened in the West Coast mining industry during the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s was an effort for the “traditional working class” to have some measure of control/ownership over that industry, and ensure the benefits were more widely spread than they are now. And yes, environmental and health and safety regulations were a part of it. Neoliberalism not withstanding, conditions for mining workers are way better than they were 80 years ago.
Now that Shane Jones will soon out of the Labour caucus, we will all now see the contrast that his views have with the views of the Party.
His valedictory speech will give the first indication.
The guy’s a suit-wearing Harvard-educated senior fisheries manager. What’s “working class” about that? His engagement with Maori is also mainly with the iwi elite rather than the flaxroots.
I’m delighted he has found something more useful to do with himself. The way it’s happened is like the rest of his career – all about what’s good for spoilt little boy Shane rather than his party or his people.
Hooton spinning at the speed of light on RadioNZ NIne to Noon this morning, claiming ”it will be that much more difficult for Winston Peters to sign NZFirst up to a Labour/Green coalition without Jones being in the Parliament”,
My last conversation here at the Standard with wee Matty featured a couple of these, 🙄 ,His latest laughable attempts at political analysis deserves little better, 🙄 , 🙄 , 🙄 …
Meanwhile – keeping the political blowtorch on the Minister for CORRUPTION – Judith Collins ..
OIA acknowledgment from Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully’s Ministerial Secretary received 9.25am today 23 April 2014:
Dear Ms Penny Bright,
On behalf of Hon Murray McCully, Minister of Foreign Affairs, thank you for your correspondence of 22 April requesting information regarding any involvement of the New Zealand Ambassador to China in Minister Collins’ Oravida dinner.
You will receive a reply within 20 working days as required by the Official Information Act.
Yours sincerely,
Holly
Holly Bennett | Ministerial Secretary | Office of Hon Murray McCully
Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister for Sport and Recreation
6.1 Executive Wing Beehive | Parliament Buildings | Wellington 6160 | New Zealand
22 April 2014
NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs
Murray McCully
‘Open Letter’ /OIA request to NZ Minister for Foreign Affairs Murray McCully – what was the involvement of the NZ Ambassador to China (Carl Worker) in Judith Collins’ ‘private’ Oravida dinner?
Dear Minister,
Please provide the following information which confirms;
1) Who invited Carl Worker, the NZ Ambassador to China, to this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?
2) Why the NZ Ambassador to China, Carl Worker, declined to attend this Oravida ‘private’ dinner.
3) In what capacity did Minister of Justice Judith Collins speak “.. to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.
ie: As a private citizen, or as the Minister for Justice?
4) Did Judith Collins speak to Carl Worker in his capacity as NZ Ambassador to China, regarding this Oravida ‘private’ dinner?
5) Please provide copies of ALL information, ‘briefing notes’ / emails / notes of telephone messages/ memos / minutes /reports (and the like)
between Judith Collins (Minister for Justice) and Carl Worker (NZ Ambassador to China) relating to this matter.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11240640
“Justice Minister Judith Collins has recovered her memory after telling Parliament she could not recall whether she had briefed New Zealand’s ambassador to Beijing about her Oravida dinner.
…..
In Parliament’s last session before a two-week recess, she again refused to identify the official she dined with, said she did not know of Oravida’s difficulties in the Chinese market before the dinner, and said she could not remember whether she had briefed ambassador to Beijing Carl Worker about the dinner.
She told the Weekend Herald she didn’t believe she had spoken about the dinner to Mr Worker beyond an initial discussion beforehand when he said he would not attend.
But on Thursday evening, she said she had checked her notes and believed she had spoken to the ambassador about the dinner the following day and told him “nothing had occurred that was untoward and it was just a very private friendly dinner that was short”.
She said Mr Worker had asked her on the day of the dinner to just let him know if there was anything that he needed to know about.
…….”
Yours sincerely,
Penny Bright
……………………
…………………….
‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’
Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate, polling 4th with 11,723 votes campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region
http://www.pennybrightformayor.org.nz
Paid your rates yet Penny ?
Absolutely NOT ‘Not Petey’.
Not as long as Auckland Council fails to follow the RULE OF LAW and tell us EXACTLY where rates monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors.
(Public Records Act 2005 s.17)
I’m making a stand on principle that cannot be ignored.
How about yourself?
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
If it can’t be ignored why are the Auckland council ignoring it and getting the rest of us to subsidises your continued bludging ?
well, it’s not bludging, it’s a protest.
And it won’t cost you a cent, because they will take her house to pay the arrears and legal costs.
So who’s more foolish: the fool or the fool who gets worked up about the microscopic and ultimately imaginary harm they think the fool causes?
errr….. did I get paid for the work I put in to help get John Banks into Court to face the charge of electoral fraud?
(Did Graham McCready? Nope.)
http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
Nope.
Did I get paid for the work I put in to help stop the RORT of Metrowater ‘charitable payments’?
(From which Auckland City Council planned to take $320 million in the form of increased Metrowater price rises for water and wastewater services over a ten year period, in order to subsidise rates).
Nope.
In 2010, I got a ‘Good Citizens’ award for service to the community.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10655565
How about yourself?
I choose to work FULLTIME on a self-funded basis as an anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog.
‘Bludging’?
Doubt it.
What have YOU done lately ‘Not Petey’, that has helped the public or the public interest?
(Probably won’t take you long to reply ……)
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz
http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz
Very petty, not Pete.
Why don’t you challenge the powerful instead?
what the Ambassador says…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11242726
from the article
“There was a perception of a conflict of interest that was raised, the minister I’m sure will manage that better in the future.”
translated:
The Minister will more carefully manage the perception certainly,
of course the conflict will continue unabated.
So National get rid of deadwood before the next election (except for T Ryall whos a big loss) and the lefties proclaim it as a sign Nationals in trouble
S Jones stands down to work for a government created role…wonder who he thinks will win the next election 🙂
“the lefties proclaim it as a sign Nationals in trouble”
Where? I’ve only seen it acknowledged that they are better at clearing deadwood than Labour is.
lol
I think he’s finally realised that he won’t win the next leadership election, regardless of how the general election goes. Finally picked which way the wind is blowing in the party.
How many nats are leaving – a dozen? more?
How many labour folks have announced their departure? 1? 2? 3? Even percentage-wise, I reckon there’s a bit of a difference between the two.
“How many labour folks have announced their departure? 1? 2? 3? Even percentage-wise, I reckon there’s a bit of a difference between the two.”
Of course there is, National MPs generally go off and earn more in the private sector whereas for those on the left parliament is the best they’re ever going to do (with one or two notable exceptions) so they stay as long as they can
You do realise that your piece of spin requires that the primary motivation for both elected office and future careers is money?
Nice glimpse into your pointless existence, there
Maybe not at the start but after a few years of money and perks and the realization that the private sector can’t match what you have know…
I mean it worked out really well for G Beyer didn’t it and what would someone like T. Mallard do
Nope for a left politician its to stay on for as long as you can
Again, your argument is that the main reason someone will choose between elected service, basic public service, or the private sector is money.
Some folks have actually turned down higher-paying work in favour of lower-paying work that has some value to society. But you wouldn’t be able to comprehend that.
“Again, your argument is that the main reason someone will choose between elected service, basic public service, or the private sector is money.”
Yeah I can just see someone like T. Mallard jacking it all in and going back to being a teacher 🙂
But the nats assure us that teachers are well paid, on like $70k after only a few yearsd experience…
Seriously, you’re a muppet. Do you really think that after all his years in government mallard couldn’t walk into an equivalently-paying private sector job – especially considering the amount of work expected from folk like Doug Graham. Not to mention the fact that he’s probably accrued a nice cushion to retire on, anyway.
If you’re still chasing coin after almost 30 years in parliament, you’ve most likely got either a gambling habit or a drug habit. Which makes the large volume of nat ship-jumpers somewhat interesting.
well I guess Keys car getting egged in the blue seat of Napier today.. i say otherwise yeah national sure are in trouble..
according to the kumara vine John Key’s PR machine whizzed through the suburb I grew up in- Maraenui- to open new Social Housing.
Finally the tide has turned and the people of NZ now see John Keyas the left see him and everyone will now turn to Labour to deliver us from the evil of National
and then the posters on the standard woke up 🙂
Labour can do all it wants but as long as The New Zealand Herald continues with its CONCERTED attacks against Labour, we will continue to go down in the Polls.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11242668
This article about a tweet from 2011 is the NZ Heralds number 1 story…arseholes. They really hate Labour Policy and will do anything to ensure they don’t win in September. All to do with CGT.
certainly scraped up that story from the base of the barrel.
Politicians and twitter a bad mix.
certainly are; see it time and time again, tweets displaying default thinking processes like labeling and compartmentalizing for examples.
Its a bollocks beat up story, but shouldn’t this crap have come out in the Tukituki selection process to show that perhaps this person MIGHT NOT BE AN IDEAL CANDIDATE for Labour??!
Which does suggest this is a high stakes elections for the people who own the Herald.
One more win will mean….
the signing of the TPPA
the privatisation of health and education
More private prisons
More for the 1% and less for everyone else.
Buller region experience a ” 1 in 500-year” battering from five days of storms.
Dunne quibbles that new synthetics to the market since the current legislation are behind the reports of concerns over their harms, with only 6 of 71 Local body councils regulating their sale so far. He quotes Time magazine article stating that synthetic drug manufacture and prohibition is a ‘cat-and-mouse game’ worldwide.
Obama on Francis- “he projects the humility and kindness I associate with Jesus”.
Maybe, just maybe, the ‘C’ in Act, stands for cannabis 😉
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11242444
It does not appear that Australia will be reducing ‘greenhouse emissions’ any day soon
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=11242452
The US sends 600 troops to Poland and other nations sharing borders with Russia.The acting Ukrainian government calls for further ‘anti-terrorism’ action in the eastern pro-Russian cities.
A U commission is investigating if NZ ACC claimants are experiencing justice.
and the dollar reaches US86c.
A UN commission that would be.
xox
I avoid reading PG , he is not credible, and a waste of abreviation. Move on to real stuff folks, not PG tips.
Philj
yes and three or four others..fismi, pukrogue tin hat and others i can’t remember who contribute nothing to the otherwise informed debate on this website.Ignore and don’t respond to their simplistic jibes.. Respond only to those who present reasoned arguments with or against your views.
I now skim these people just as I skip trivial adverts on tv.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11242668
What next ?
What next?…..
Some news from 2014, not 2011.
Or maybe some balanced journalism.
A story about the corrupt practices of Judith Collins.
Or an investigation into the TPPA
Or an investigation into child poverty.
You know …….actual news.
Man made climate change but not the kind we’ve been lead to believe exists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5is16A8pfw#t=205
🙄
were the rolly eyes before or after watching the link. I’m picking before. 😉
If so thats a big part of the problem we face as a society – apathy
Given that what she’s talking about is supposedly a matter of pblic record in the USA it is quite concerning
wasted my time on some of it, actually. Got bored when she claimed that all the programmes she was talking about were on the public record but had no public oversight.
Wow Just heard Bill Shorten Australian Labor leader declare that he wants to make Labor no longer the political wing of the union movement. The complete opposite of New Zealand Labour which is just a gaggle of interest groups controlled by union hacks and led by someone without majority support in caucus.
fishy smelly as usual
I thought I heard on Radio this a.m. that Oz people can’t belong to their Labor Party if they are not in a union. Can someone confirm or correct me on this please.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9968055/Jones-job-offer-not-shot-at-Labour-PM
Theres a good opinion poll attached as well 🙂
It’s called propaganda.
The manipulation of public opinion by powerful anti democratic forces.
And you know it.
I hadn’t seen that the latest benefit fraud Bill was passed and while it’s utterly sickening Labour supported it.
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17042014/#comment-800004
It’s horrendous to think that partners of people who’ve committed fraud can be criminalised even if they did not know about the offending, which the Act now it’s been passed will allow (and assuming of course there is in fact a relationship in the nature of marriage which is another huge problem because nine times out of ten Work and Income get that wrong). Few people commented on this because all focus went on the liability for repayment resting largely on women, which it does. but if this is the problem then it should have been dealt with in terms of civil liability, not criminalisation for a dishonesty offence when the accused is not required to have knowledge of the offending. This is horrendously bad law.
What’s equally disturbing though, and again it wasn’t largely talked about and in some ways is worse, is the removal of Work and Income’s ability not to recover debt. It’s probably beyond your average Labour MP to comprehend but this has to be a new low in NZ’s lawmaking history.
Labour significantly reduced the ability for debt to be written off back in 2002. Now they’ve supported legislation that goes even further by saying that all debt must be recovered (apart from the very small proportion of debt arising from error and where the person has received the payment in good faith etc). This latest legislation also allows for minimum repayment levels to be prescribed depending on how the debt was incurred. Currently there’s a discretion that allows for debt repayment to be either suspended, deferred or at the very least set at rates that take into account personal circumstances including hardship etc. From July even that discretion is gone. This is in effect a benefit cut because there’s no ability not to reduce the level of payment a person receives. And Labour said yes to this.
Surely we need to send the message to Labour that we cannot give them support until they show they’ve changed their stance towards the vulnerable. Despite all of David Cunliffe’s bluster upon becoming leader their support for this Bill shows nothing has changed at all.
We all trusted Labour following the Shipley/Richardson years only to see the poor regularly shafted by Labour throughout nine years under Helen Clark. Are we going to sit by and let Labour under Cunliffe do it all again? What happened to his “I’m all about change” speech?
Seeing Labour supporting this Bill is sickening. It’s complete irony that the biggest problem for the poor in New Zealand is the Labour Party. The plight of the vulnerable in this country cannot change until Labour changes, and Labour will not change unless they know we do not support them. I think it’s time Labour were sent this message.
What justification can Labour possibly express ?
meanwhile, in the land of those that make the rules
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9958230/Wife-gets-900k-from-mansion-sale
Thanks Mary. Does anyone have a link to more analysis of the Bill?
Here’s Auckland Action Against Poverty’s submission. There are others there also:
http://www.parliament.nz/resource/0001979610
I can’t believe the shallow responses by some of the Labour MPs. And they expect us to vote for them? Labour is looking more and more like something out of Monty Python every day.
This is fundamentally useless.
Especially if it’s ignored.
that’s an interesting blog title, well-written and argued piece.
“An ideology is more or less a coherent set of ideas that provides the basis for organized political action , COHERENT, whether this is intended to preserve, modify or overthrow the existing system of power (Neo-liberal capitalist economics for example) 😉 .All ideologies therefore,
a, offer an account or worldview of the existing order
b, advance a model of a desired future (eg, less inequality and discrimination)
and
c, explain how political change can and should be brought about (eg, CGT, Financial transaction tax)
Ideology brings about two kinds of synthesis: between understanding and commitment, and between thought and action; in relation to the first synthesis, the fusion of understanding and commitment, ideology blurs the distinction between what ‘is’ and ‘what should be’.
I’m an ex diesel mechanic, former harley rider, and general nature lovin’ bloke, yet Shane Jones was too narrow-minded, outspoken and a liability for this Labour supporter. Half the population are wimmen, dontcha know.
Pete, and Trotter, and Tamihere, and anyone else who thinks Jones is relevant are all working from a caricature of a template of an idea of a working person from the 1950s, which was about the last time they ever rubbed shoulders with the commoners.
Insultingly they assume working people are all bigots, all whiteys, and yep, all blokes.
Fucking idiots.
You’re show some idiocy here felix, making things up again. I’ve never claimed Jones has anything to do with working people and I don’t assume anything like that about working people. Your claim is idiotic, but that’s what you do.
If you’re going to post screeds of shite from other blogs you can damn well stand by them, dickhead.
It’s not as if you stand by your bull felix. I simply quoted someone because it was relevant to discussions, you deliberately misquote and misrepresent.
And resorting to abuse when you’re called on it doesn’t help you.
I stand by everything I’ve said. Dickhead.
“Insultingly they assume working people are all bigots, all whiteys, and yep, all blokes.”
And that all working people think the same.
And of course there are no, for example, gay workers, because those are two different demographics. And gays all think the same, just like workers all think the same.
It looks a bit pathetic for you both to resort to obvious nonsense like that. I guess if you’ve got nothing else.
Fuck off Pete, this doesn’t concern you.
The US are examining allegations that the Syrian govt. have carried out six attacks using chlorine gas. They are being utilized to drive people out of rebel-held cities with the govt. banking on international silence. US defense commentator suggests investigations won’t begin until current surrendered stocks are destroyed.
and Shane Jones? Always something fishy about that man.
A groper⁉
🙂
Keeping focused with the anti-corruption blowtorch ……
As a proven ‘anti-corruption’ campaigner, in my considered opinion, there is significant and growing public concern about Minister of Justice Judith Collins’ ACTUAL ‘conflict of interest’ regarding her role in promoting/ endorsing her friends and husband’s company – Oravida.
Just as with DODGY John Banks, NZ Prime Minister John Key AGAIN, is defending the indefensible?
Seen this?
Seems that unfortunately for Cameron Slater, Judith Collins and Prime Minister John Key, there are actually a growing number of New Zealanders who do ‘care a stuff about who people have dinner with’ :
“Should Judith Collins step down as a minister?”
8:49 AM Wednesday Apr 16, 2014 1016 comments
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11239082#comment-form
And this?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11242726
Envoy kept tabs on Judith Collins in China
9:11 AM Wednesday Apr 23, 2014
Ambassador to China had asked minister to inform him what was discussed at dinner.
Judith Collins insists the Beijing dinner was a private occasion. Photo / Michael CraigJudith Collins insists the Beijing dinner was a private occasion. Photo / Michael Craig
New Zealand’s ambassador to China, Carl Worker, asked Judith Collins to tell him of anything he needed to know about the Beijing dinner with an unnamed senior Chinese border control official, which the Justice Minister insists was a private social occasion.
Ms Collins has refused to answer questions about the dinner late last year, attended by her friends and Oravida bosses Stone Shi and Julia Xu, on the grounds it was a private dinner.
But after denying in Parliament last week that she had spoken about the dinner with Mr Worker, she later told the Herald that she had not only discussed it with him afterwards, but he had also asked her to keep him informed of what was discussed.
“He’d said to me on the Sunday, just let him know if there was anything he needed to know about.”
……
This issue is NOT going away.
It is a DISGRACE.
There is a LOT more to come …..
Penny Bright
Attendee: 2009 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2010 Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
Attendee: 2013 Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (who polled 4th with 11,723 votes, campaigning against corrupt corporate control of the Auckland region)
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz
+100…. Go Penny
Poorer Benefit is also the Local Bodies Minister. WTF This is an important role, that of central government liaising and working with our local politicians – our at home, neighbourhood politics. Not some young Jenny-come-lately.
She has a big portfolio with WINZ and this is a big enough job for one person to concentrate on, and she could be doing more about finding projects that would be of benefit to the country from people on benefits working on them. A virtuous circle. But no she shows very little concern, has done the minimum to provide thoughtful support for those on welfare. And so has time for working on her profile for photo ops,
“she could be doing more about finding projects that would be of benefit to the country from people on benefits working on them.”
I find it amazing you think that is the role of a Minister? (I assume beneath the childish drivel you are referring to Paula Bennett?
Looks like the leftover arseholes in the Labour caucus should just fuck off.
Damien Oconnor, Clayton Cosgrove you two rightwing pricks should have no home in the Labour party.
And good fucking riddance to the tory masturbator Shane Jones! What a piece of shit he is! Still a few more wankers to go but he was the worst offender.
Radio Live on now and accusing the Nats/Shane Jones of corruption – about time the media stepped up and did their job. Have been listening to the radio most of the day and this is the first I have heard the media state that Shane Jones is immoral. Timothy Giles is the host and is talking good sense.
Just read an old message from ‘Jenny’ which I think contains wisdom.
Jenny said….”The strategy for the Left is clear. National is more Left than ACT, Left voters in Epsom would ..( read ‘should’) choose National over ACT every time.”
If Epsom left voters had followed this logic last time we might have had a Labour led government now…and wouldn’t have the Banks/Key subterfuge…..BUT… my left leaning friends in Epsom couldn’t bear to vote National in the last election and either voted Labour or stayed home.
They should at least consider Jenny’s logic
What happens in September in Epsom, could decide whether Cunliffe or Key determines the governance of our country.