Peters gets knocked down but may not get up again

Written By: - Date published: 8:32 am, March 20th, 2024 - 54 comments
Categories: copyright, david seymour, music, nz first, racism, winston peters - Tags:

At one level this Government is a real laugh. Every couple of days either David Seymour or Winston Peters do something outlandish to try and attract attention. They do not care about getting majority support. They just want to attract attention to secure their base and they are in competition for the same small group.

Act’s Batshit crazy interpretations of the Treaty and putting this forward as a referendum presents no problem. Even though it has the potential of making the Springbok tour protests look like a walk in the park.

Not to be outdone Winston Peters last weekend likened co governance to fascism. Claiming that showing respect for Maori and article 2 rights is akin to Nazi Germany was a valid thing to say according to Winston. That Nazi Germany had no respect whatsoever for the rights of minorities and people with dark skins is totally irrelevant.

This does not matter to Winston. He is not trying to appeal to the 70% of the population who is rational and/or compassionate and/or sensitive. He is appealing to his base, people who think the 1950s was the best time in the country’s history.

His complete contempt for the concept of property rights is of concern.

It is not as if right wingers have not had problems in the past with respecting the property rights of musicians.

Who can forget National’s plagiarism of Coldplay’s Clocks in 2007?

Or how it was sued by Eminem for using a song described as eminemesque? Turns out that the use was not pretty legal.

Peters idol, Donald Trump also has some form in the area. He once used Neil Young’s song Keep on rocking in the free world at a campaign launch. This attracted a cease and desist letter from Young who was at the time a Bernie Saunders supporter.

Trump was not the first American right wing politician to totally ignore the rights of musicians to their music.  Ronald Reagan once used Bruce Springsteen’s “Born in the USA” in 1984, and caused major affront to Springsteen who is a strong union supporter and a true progressive.  And in 2000 George Bush junior used Tom Petty’s song “I won’t back down“.  He then received a cease and desist letter from Petty which showed clearly that Petty was not backing down.  Petty even played this song for Al Gore after he conceded the 2000 election.

The thing about musos is they tend to be talented intelligent people who want to make the world a better place. Because of this they hate the right and populist politicians who rely on division and hatred for support especially those that use their music without consent.

And Chumbawamba are clearly in that category and were also upset that Peters had usurped their talent for his political purposes. From the Herald:

[F]ormer lead guitarist Boff Whalley said Tubthumping was written “as a song of hope and positivity, so it seems entirely odd that the ‘I get knocked down …’ refrain is being used by New Zealand’s Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters as he barks his divisive, small-minded, bigoted policies during his recent speeches”.

“Chumbawamba would like to make it clear that we did not give permission for Peters to use the song and would ask him to stop using it to try to shore up his misguided political views,” Whalley said in a statement to Stuff.

“Chumbawamba does not share any of Peters’ ideas on race relations and would like to remind him that the song was written for and about ordinary people and their resilience, not about rich politicians trying to win votes by courting absurd conspiracy theories and spouting misguided racist ideologies.”

You would think that the message was pretty clear and that Peters should back down. But no.

Peters thinks that since the event was not being used to make money he is in the clear. He really needs to get better legal advice. And besides NZ First apparently had a cameraman there obviously gathering campaign material. The slightest sliver of the song in any publicity material would render his defence, such as it is, irrelevant.

Peters will make this into an absolute circus. Instead of doing his job as the Deputy Prime Minister he will spend lots of time fighting an issue where the merits are clear.

I hope that Sony sues him. Please make it quick so the media is not dominated by clips of angry Winston railing against the machine, or at least railing against Musicians wanting to protect their rights to their music. He should be doing his job which is making decisions on issues that are actually important for all of us.

Prepare for the circus. And don’t expect Winston to win this.

54 comments on “Peters gets knocked down but may not get up again ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. tsmithfield 1
    20 March 2024 at 9:06 am

    Perhaps NZ First has registered with Apra which provides permission to play a lot of music in public settings.

    I agree his Nazi comments were way out of line.

    But, on the other hand, Peters may have been trolling the media who have said virtually nothing about MP claims that Maori have superior DNA.. The fact this is reported only on a few random media sites suggests the NZ media are very biased in how they report such comments.Or the instagram post How to train your Pakeha which also has received very little comment in the media.

    The media would be frothing with outrage if NZ First or any right wing parties made similar comments.

    • mickysavage 1.1
      20 March 2024 at 9:28 am

      Perhaps NZ First has registered with Apra which provides permission to play a lot of music in public settings.

      Then surely he would have said this.

      • tsmithfield 1.1.1
        20 March 2024 at 9:36 am

        Or it could just be Peters being Peters. He seems to enjoy creating controversy where none is necessary. I am not a fan of his btw. Though I did think his twitter quip was rather humorous and cutting.

        I would use another of their hit song titles as a quip at the end of this post but unfortunately they only had one.

        A lot of churches register with Apra for playing music in their services. And it isn't expensive. So, it wouldn't surprise me if NZ First had done that. Probably a wise thing to do for any organisation that may want to use music from time to time in public settings.

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1
          20 March 2024 at 10:00 am

          "but unfortunately they only had one" is "rather humorous"?

          Peters insults the creators whose song he (mis)used?

          Missing the humour, I am.

          • tsmithfield 1.1.1.1.1
            20 March 2024 at 10:23 am

            Yeah, I still think it is humorous. But, on the other hand, getting even one number one hit is an achievement that the vast majority of bands would give their right arm for.

        • Obtrectator 1.1.1.2
          20 March 2024 at 10:14 am

          He seems to enjoy creating controversy where none is necessary.

          Straight out of the Trump playbook. All done to distract attention; while the media zoom after the "story" like a lot of reef-fish, the real dirty-work is being done by others, elsewhere and unremarked on.

      • weka 1.1.2
        20 March 2024 at 10:25 am

        Then surely he would have said this.

        it's worth quoting the whole tweet from Peters,

        It seems the media care more about the Chumbawamba story than we do. We actually don’t care.

        There’s nothing to ‘cease or desist’.

        The song worked like a charm for our first public meeting after the election. The over 700 people in the crowd thought so too.

        We will be sure to file the ‘cease and desist’ letter in a safe place if it ever arrives.

        I would use another of their hit song titles as a quip at the end of this post but unfortunately they only had one.

        this is classic Peters. Who knows if they're registered with Apra and Peters is not saying that because it suits his purposes. Or if he's talking shit to cover up that fact that they don't know what they're doing and are about to get into a legal process.

        • tsmithfield 1.1.2.1
          20 March 2024 at 10:31 am

          Who knows if they're registered with Apra and Peters is not saying that because it suits his purposes.

          I agree. As I said earlier, he likes stoking controversy where none is necessary just because it suits his purposes. He seems to treat the media as his play thing, and they always seem to co-operate.

          It also shows how brain dead our media are in that they didn’t even think to ask the obvious question about whether NZ First had registered with Apra.

          True investigative journalism died a long time ago unfortunately.

          • alwyn 1.1.2.1.1
            20 March 2024 at 10:53 am

            "they didn’t even think to ask",

            They may have. If they found that they had registered, and therefore were entitled to use the song they may simply have left that out of the story. (I assume that is how it works. I don't know anything much about Apra).

            After all, if NZF had clearly done nothing wrong and their story would show it they would look at bit silly, wouldn't they? Better to leave out the details and run with their preferred "Let's bash Winnie" scenario.

            • weka 1.1.2.1.1.1
              20 March 2024 at 11:31 am

              doubt it. Unlike Peters, MSM still has some kind of standards.

              Someone should fact check that APRA even applies here though.

          • Georgecom 1.1.2.1.2
            21 March 2024 at 8:15 pm

            For me the main issue isn't the song but rather Winston being s dickhead all round with his cogovernance equates to nazis comment. That level of hyperbole and misrepresentation feeds that dickhead percentage of the population. The likes who opposed 3 waters simply because they thought it gave Maori too much power and didn't stop to think about their council rates going sky high as a result. By digging in a trying to justify those comments Peter's is acting like, as wayne brown would say, a pernickety dickheaf

    • Robert Guyton 1.2
      20 March 2024 at 9:58 am

      "But, on the other hand"

      Classic!

    • Res Publica 1.3
      20 March 2024 at 2:27 pm

      But, on the other hand, Peters may have been trolling the media who have said virtually nothing about MP claims that Maori have superior DNA.. The fact this is reported only on a few random media sites suggests the NZ media are very biased in how they report such comments.Or the instagram post How to train your Pakeha which also has received very little comment in the media.

      Yeah, because bothsidesing the argument is definitely helpful. /sarc

      This is exactly the kind of rhetoric that has been used to justify (relatively unilateral) hyperpolarisation in politics elsewhere. If the 'other' side has also said some bad things then all you have to do is close your eyes, make a wish, and argue everything every politician and political party says is morally equivalent.

      Therefore rendering any outrage about our deputy Prime Minister literally calling the former government and a significant chunk of our population literally Nazis moot.

  2. alwyn 2
    20 March 2024 at 10:03 am

    I suppose that there use of the song had one effect. I, like most other people I would guess, had never heard of the band. Now I have, although I doubt it will lead to their revival or a Super Bowl halftime show appearance.

  3. AB 3
    20 March 2024 at 10:38 am

    The real problem with Peter's comments is that he claimed that the rationale behind co-governance was the Nazi ideology of racial superiority. That is just factually incorrect.

    The rationale behind co-governance is that this is how the Crown meets its obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi. The Treaty is an agreement between an indigenous people and a colonising power. The race of neither party matters – Maori could be white and the British black and such a Treaty could still in theory have been made.

    This error is then conflated with something that Rawiri Waititi said about Maori superiority. But Waititi was not part of the last government which introduced 3 Waters. Waititi's comments were at best silly (if an attempted joke) and at worst offensive. But they are completely unrelated to the rationale for co-governance under 3 Waters.

    This is all very irresponsible from Peters. It aggravates a false mood of racialised grievance amongst some pakeha NZers. It plays into the hands of the owners of capital who wish to eliminate the notion of indigenous rights which they see as a potential impediment to their profiting from extraction of our natural resources. And most importantly, it damages our chances of getting an implementation of the Treaty that we can all agree to. In the end it is the Treaty that offers us the chance of living in the only settler-colonial country in the world that could claim to be morally and politically legitimate.

    • mickysavage 3.1
      20 March 2024 at 10:50 am

      Well put. His behaviour is Trumpian.

    • tsmithfield 3.2
      20 March 2024 at 10:54 am

      I largely agree with you.

      It could be argued that the Waititi comments were consistent with some of the Nazi type messaging(race superiority etc). But, certainly not in terms of the dreadful actions that accompanied the Nazi messaging in WW2.

      So, trying to equate that language with Nazism was completely out of line as I said earlier.

    • Obtrectator 3.3
      20 March 2024 at 11:39 am

      And most importantly, it damages our chances of getting an implementation of the Treaty that we can all agree to.

      Classic extremist technique – don't take out the opposition (it's needed to justify your own existence). Take out the bridge-builders instead, and destroy their bridge while you're at it.

    • Subliminal 3.4
      20 March 2024 at 1:04 pm

      Absolutely. It is the same mentality that needed to wipe out indigenous North Americans and with them their property rights. It is absolutely an ongoing project and the same mentality that seeks to extinguish Paestinians and with them, their property rights.

  4. randal mcmurphy 4
    20 March 2024 at 11:31 am

    chumbawumba are a great little band but too far off the mainstream for nz media. peters and seemore are both chapskates.

  5. James Simpson 5
    20 March 2024 at 11:50 am

    This type of “controversy” is what keeps Peters in the headlines. He loves the media coming at him for this kind of stuff, which in the greater scheme of things is meaningless. Other than a band who had a hit a quarter of a century ago, who is losing sleep over this (other than some journalists)?

    Trumpian politics is successful if the media allows it to flourish. The news notifications on my phone over the past 3 days have been Peters, Peters, Peters. He is dominating the news cycle, when this isn't news. Why do they give him a platform and allow him to spout this rubbish? Its exactly what he wants. Just like Trump.

  6. gsays 6
    20 March 2024 at 12:25 pm

    Please excuse the following ageism.

    Since this story broke, I've had the notion that rather than get knocked down, it's more likely he had 'a fall'.

    • Phillip ure 6.1
      20 March 2024 at 1:00 pm

      The audience shot of his audience is hilarious..

      The ditty is blasting away…and they are all immobile..maybe even in shock at hearing something they didn't know.. that's too loud..

      It was going down like a lead balloon..

      He should have given them 'she'll be coming around the mountain'..

      They would have all known it/would have sung along..(and it is probably out of copyright..)

      Peters would have us believing the audience gyrated along with this latest rip-off from/by the right..

      They hated it..

  7. Mike the Lefty 7
    20 March 2024 at 1:07 pm

    Not being used to make money?

    Well thats a lie for a start.

    They were soliciting donations for the party before and after the performance.

    I hung around the entrance to the Convention centre beforehand to see who or what turned up to see Peters

    It was more like what.

  8. observer 8
    20 March 2024 at 1:15 pm

    He drinks a Whiskey drink, he drinks a Vodka drink, he drinks a Lager drink, he drinks a Cider drink …

    Then he gives a speech on TV. No wonder he couldn't remember what he said.

  9. Darien Fenton 9
    20 March 2024 at 1:33 pm

    FFS this man is Deputy Prime Minister and our Foreign Minister. He is a member of Cabinet in this awful government, yet apparently he can keep on spouting NZF crap in his "State of the Nation". I always thought there was collective responsibility in government and particularly those who have the privilege of being around the Cabinet Table. Not to mention leadership and dignity. But he and Seymour are running amok and it seems to me that the PM, yes the PM, is too afraid to haul them in. They will be the undoing of this awful coalition.

    • James Simpson 9.1
      20 March 2024 at 1:51 pm

      Afraid to haul them in?

      I think he is intentionally letting them go. Don't you think he agrees with what they say?

      • Chess Player 9.1.1
        21 March 2024 at 7:31 pm

        No, I think he disagrees, but knows that everyone else will be distracted by Winston so he can get his other objectives met

        Politics is the art of the possible

        No different to when Clark let Bradford and co loose on the anti-smacking bill so she could get the west coast iron-sands sold to the Chinese

        There's a reason Winston is going first too in the the deputy prime minister role – by time of next election he will have been relegated somewhat (as much as it is possible to) and less of a distraction

    • Res Publica 9.2
      20 March 2024 at 2:20 pm

      It reminds me of an anecdote from Suetonius:

      When Caesar was consul (59BC), he so thoroughly sidelined his colleague (a guy called Bibulus for those playing along at home) he was forced to barricade himself in his home and refused to participate in public life.

      The Romans loved a farce, and jokingly referred to the year as in Iulio et Caesare consulibus – the consulship of Julius and Caesar.

      Similarly, is Christopher Luxon really the Prime Minister? Or should we refer to this government as the premiership of David Seymour and Winston Peters?

    • tsmithfield 9.3
      20 March 2024 at 4:17 pm

      Just to remind you Darien, it wasn't that long ago that Labour was kowtowing to him when he was part of the Labour government.

      Absolutely toxic I know. But it is what it is I guess.

  10. Anker 10
    20 March 2024 at 4:28 pm

    https://www.chrislynchmedia.com/news-items/winston-peters-blasts-disgraceful-example-of-journalism

    This is Winstons statement on what he said at his state of the Nation Speech. I was listening to it and it concurs with what I heard.

  11. Anker 11
    20 March 2024 at 4:31 pm

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nz-firsts-winston-peters-plays-chumbawamba-at-parliament-pm-christopher-luxon-tells-political-leaders-to-grow-up/RZWNN3RJLZAXJDCSJUHQ6TWN7Y/

    Oh and this. Peters walking through parliament listening on his phone to chumbawamba! LOL. I think he already is up again!

    BTW the point here is that the media have shamefully misquoted what Peters said. And in this statement published by Chris Lynch media Peters makes the point that the media didn't rush to ask the synagogue what they thought after tras compared Posie Parker to Nazis….

  13. Chess Player 13
    20 March 2024 at 5:30 pm

    One of the early stages of dementia has the sufferer being physically and verbally abusive, which appears to be down to a combination of chemical changes in the brain and an associated anger at losing control of faculties.

  14. thinker 14
    20 March 2024 at 5:47 pm

    "Please make it quick so the media is not dominated by clips of angry Winston railing against the machine, or at least railing against Musicians wanting to protect their rights to their music."

    No, make it slow so the media is not dominated by clips of whatever 100 days' targets are being spun, but rather dominated by an out-of-control coalition, headlined by Winston"6%" Peters and led by Luxon, hopefully wearing one of those 90s caps that said "I'm their leader… Which way did they go?"

    Come on, Mickey, play the long game!!

  15. Michael P 15
    20 March 2024 at 7:43 pm

    Just another distraction. Most people couldn't give a rat's arse what some one hit wonder band called Chumbawumba thinks of Winston Peters. This is flaffel. (Gad… another non-word)

    Did the whole Eminem / National party thing make a jot of difference to anything, despite the ridiculous amount of media attention it got. The only reason anybody even remembers it is because of Steven Joyce.

    Have to admit though, that agree with Joyce and National or not,

    "… it's, umm, pretty legal…"

    has to be one of the greatest ever (probably unintentional although he did have a glint in his eye) quotes from a New Zealand MP. Shame he wasn't the Minister of Justice at the time….

  16. SPC 16
    20 March 2024 at 8:33 pm

    New Zealand has a land based economy and so the government is planning to build more dams to protect this from drought (likely to be more common because of global warming).

    It is a scientific fact, well researched, that Polynesians have larger bones and more muscle than others. All Rawiri Waititi, co-leader of Te Pāti Māori did was make the case for investment in Maori sport.

    Too many of our tamariki miss the opportunities in sport because of the financial burden placed on their families will give up and turn to drugs and gangs. Sport is the alternative for many keeping them busy and offering them opportunities to travel and be better, see the world and give them the confidence our tamariki rightfully deserve in their own country.

    https://www.maoriparty.org.nz/maori_sports

    Apparently using the term "Māori genetic makeup is stronger than others" – as per both bones and muscle, a scientific fact – got attention. He did not use the term strongest, because of other Polynesians.

    The hysteria about this places the debate about western science and Maori "knowledge" into a whole new context.

    Of course there is nothing scientific about the idea that an oral based marae culture producing orators, enabling the Jones and Peters types, to superficially impress

    The TPM sports policy now merely says this.

    As to Our ancestors were not just athletic they were also strategic thinkers with intentions to survive. This all required, stamina, resilience, endurance, speed, agility, and logic. There is great opportunity to showcase the sporting talent of Māori on the world stage

    Fear of Maori ability has been around forever.

    https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2022/09/29/the-danger-of-an-untold-story.html

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    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
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    1 week ago

  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
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  • Judicial appointments announced
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
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  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
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    1 week ago

  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
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  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
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  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
    Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
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  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
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  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
    The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
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    1 week ago

  • Taupō takes pole position
    The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
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    1 week ago

  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
    Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners.  “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
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  • Government backing mussel spat project
    The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
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  • Government focused on getting people into work
    Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
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    1 week ago

  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
    The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
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    1 week ago

  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
    The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
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    1 week ago

  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
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    1 week ago

  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
    RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
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    1 week ago

  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
    Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
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    1 week ago

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