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Reminder: Day of Action Sat 27 April

Written By: - Date published: 11:00 am, April 27th, 2013 - 122 comments
Categories: activism, assets, class war, energy, infrastructure, national/act government, privatisation, sustainability - Tags:

Aotearoa is Not for Sale is counting down to the National Day of Action this Saturday 27 April.

Helen Kelly has stated her support for the day of action.

“Its really important people attend the rally on Saturday. Selling the assets makes no sense – economic or social. Retaining the action against the sale is very important. We will soon have a referendum on the matter and it is important the Government knows that despite their crude rush to get the sales over with, we will not be deterred.”

Now is the time to get out on the streets and protest.

– now that Labour-Greens’ NZ Power has shown there are alternatives to Key’s undemocratic asset sales agenda: a radical “neoliberal” agenda that benefits the few, and damages the lives of those struggling on low wages.

I’ll be marching in Auckland because we need to stop the asset sales before NAct does any more damage to the country.  Hoping for a big turn out.

Information about local events on Saturday are available at the bottom of the page at the above link.  However, I do find it frustrating they are all to Facebook pages and require logging in.  I have found some notices of local events elsewhere online:

poster April 27 stop asset sales poster

Auckland, Britomart 2pm

stop asset sales poster AKL 27 april 2013

Wellington, Te Aro Park, Dixon street 2-5pm – 2pm Crnr Pigeon & Courtney Place

Nelson: Millers Acre to Trafalgar Street – 12-2pm

Nelson stop asset sales day of action poster April 2013

NapierWar Memorial Square, intersection with Emerson St - 2pm

Christchurch: 2pm Cnr Deans Ave & Riccarton Road, march to Shands Cresc Park

Also Picket John Key’s speech on Sunday 28 April at Hanmer – carpooling, check above link

Tauranga: meet @ the red square 10 am marching @ 10:30.. 27 April

Dunedin: March from Dental School 1.40 pm, to rally in the Octagon, 2pm to 4pm April 27th (h/t risildo)

Hamilton: (from Augery) In Hamilton there is going to be a Not for Sale banner drop of the Bridge Street bridge at 12:00 followed by a 12:30 rally at the Rotunda on the city side of the  bridge.

See Facebook here. And Hamilton Aotearoa Is Not for Sale, have access to Garden Place from 10am.

Update: poster

March today no asset sales 27 April 2013

 

Photos I took at the Auckland rally:

Britomart - before start_2

Before the march at Britomart

 

Back view Britomart Williamson

Before the march at Britomart – didn’t realise Andrew Williams was in front of me

 

 

Bomber

On the March – also didn’t realise Martyn Bomber Bradbury was in front of me til I got home and checked the photos

 

Front of march close

On the march

Speech Gibson GI

Speech and waiata from Lisa Gibson Glen Innes Housing Protests

During the march I was told that the Glen Innes state house evictions will start again at the end of May.  Tamaki Housing Crisis, Public Meeting, Wednesday 8 May, 7pm, Glen Innes Primary School, Eastview Rd.

 

Speech Asenati Lole Taylor

Speech by Asenati Lole Taylor NZ First

Speech Sid CTU

Speech from Sid, CTU

Aotea Square - Penny bright & banners

Aotea Square – Penny bright & banners

Penny Bright

 

DIY placard

DIY placard

JK where's your soul

122 comments on “Reminder: Day of Action Sat 27 April”

  1. fambo 1

    Bring a whistle or something else to make a lot of noise with

  2. dumrse 2

    What a busy site. Can’t get a word in edge ways. If the site is representative of your Action Day then I may just change my mind and go to town after all.

  3. Rich the other 3

    I’ll be there , you can count on me.
    What do some people of NZ think they are doing ??.
    It’s time for ACTION.
    These bludgers who want to stop any sort of development must be exposes for what they are, leaches.
    From North cape to Bluff its a pandemic.
    Dannevirke the other day, we don’t want drilling , they would rather be poor, and they looked it.
    Invercargill , Tim dosn’t want paua quota extended ,
    Marlborough, we don’t want any more mussel farming.
    East coast , we don’t want exploration , Northland the same.
    West coast , (forest and bird)we don’t want coal mining.
    Transmission gully and the motor way to Otaki ,we don’t want it
    ETC,ETC,ETC.
    It won’t be long before some of these areas will be begging the GOVT for special help.
    Invercargill, Blenheim , etc.
    Its certainly time for a change in attitude .
    The asset sales are insignificant compared to DAMAGE the stop everything campaigners are trying to do.
    Stop = poor..

    • karol 3.1

      Read my post – there are alternatives.

      The actions being done by Key’s government are the ones causing all the damage.

      • Rich the other 3.1.1

        UNDEMOCRATIC ,yeah right.
        What’s wrong with you lot, it’s not hard to understand.
        Partial asset sales was the nats biggest election policy.
        Like it or not ,THEY WON, the end.

        • karol 3.1.1.1

          If they “won”, and our protest is of no significance, why do you seem so angry? Shouting isn’t good for your blood pressure.

        • Paul 3.1.1.2

          I concede that Stopping Asset Sales was a major plank of the Labour Party’s election, but I don’t think selling them was National’s main argument. On the whole they tried to keep issues in the background. People were encouraged to vote for the vague theme of a brighter future. The only other prominent theme was adulation of the dear leader, John Key.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.3

          Hey Rich, you’re a fan of “democracy” right? But you don’t believe in the democratic right to protest?

          Maybe you’re actually more of an authoritarian than you think.

          • Paul 3.1.1.3.1

            Of course people like Rich are authoritarians.
            Rich’s idol has just passed a law banning the right to protest at sea.
            At least when they passed that law I thought at least they’d lost the argument.
            You only clamp down on dissent when you have no valid points left.

            • Rich the other 3.1.1.3.1.1

              Paul,
              You are right , they got the law changes wrong.
              The correct approach would have been to exempt ships captains from any liability if a protesters boat got to close and a handful of professional protesters went to the bottom.
              If they were trying to clamp down on dissent that would have been the correct approach.

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                A better example of right wing trash I cannot imagine: openly advocating death to dissenters, like a yapping and snarling psychotic toy poodle.

                We need better wingnuts.

        • Murray Olsen 3.1.1.4

          We have voted to bring a backhoe around and dig up your back yard. You will be forcibly prevented from coming within 500m of our machinery. Your house may be damaged, but our company will declare bankruptcy before we have time to fix it, even though we’d really, really like to. It’s for the good of the economy, after all. We are sure you’ll understand.

    • Tautoko Viper 4.1

      Heh!
      I’ll be out marching. Damn the westerly wind- may have to tack up Queen Street.

  4. freedom 6

    You may have voted National, Maori Party, United Future or even Act. That does not deny you your right to voice opposition to their actions. In fact to succeed in their crimes, they count on your silence and your complicity. Today is your chance to let them know you matter. If you are not working today, little has greater significance to the future of New Zealand than this simple walk down the street amongst friends.

  5. LynWiper 7

    Also posted in open mike

    To all marching today…thank you so very much. I can’t be there due to the on call nature of my work but I am with you in spirit and will be following the protests around the country with much interest. I marched up Queen Street with my 84yr old Dad last year and found it very helpful in so many ways. I trust you all will too. Once again, many thanks from those of us unable to be there in body, we are with you.

  6. lprent 8

    Slow progress up Queen Street

  7. Doug 9

    About five people at the protest in Hamilton, as Lprent said have the photo to prove the crowd numbers.

  8. Gosman 10

    Approx 500 in Wellington by my estimate. Is that regarded as a success or not? It is a serious question by the way.

    • lprent 10.1

      From the look of it, neither labour nor the greens got on board in any depth; most likely because of the timing. I think that the first I knew about it was when it went up here a few days ago. There were a few labour banners in Auckland, no greens, and whilst there were members of both parties they were outnumbered by the unite union and mana party.

      Frankly I am surprised they got so many along bearing in mind the holiday weekend and the late notice.

      Whoever was organizing it needs to lose some romantic notions about street Events and learn how to organize across the broader left. They should go and learn how to do it from Greenpeace….

      • Gosman 10.1.1

        You are definitely correct about lack of official Labour support in Wellington. I spoke with a man holding a bunch occasional Labour signs and asked why so many. He stated it was lucky he got them at al as there was none at the start and he had to go to the local hq and get some before they left.

        • lprent 10.1.1.1

          From what I gathered from various people, they only decided to support this rally in the last day or so. The greens hadn’t made up their mind which is why they didn’t have an official presence. Sounds like NZ First were pretty late in the mix as well (must find out who their speaker was up here). Even most of the usual unions weren’t there. I think I saw one SFWU banner and a solitary nurses union banner. There may have been others mixed amongst the Unite banners.

          It looked like a good rally for Mana and Unite.

          I’d love to be at the debrief for this exercise because the first thing I’d be asking is what the intent of the outcome of the rally was, and if it had been achieved. Because if it was intended to show the depth of opposition to the asset sales, then it would have brought a great deal of comfort to the government.

          On the other hand Penny Bright had some pretty good banners.. Much better than her usual level :twisted:

          • mickysavage 10.1.1.1.1

            Asenati Lole Taylor and Andrew Williams was there too.

            • lprent 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Asenati Lole Taylor – she was pretty vigorous. That was probably the most interesting political part of the day for me.

              • karol

                Yes, Lole Taylor was a bit of an eye-opener. She doesn’t come across that well in the House. In front of a live crowd she engaged really well with the crowd, using the call and response technique – simple but effective. John Key – boo; “Flip flop Dunne” – boo, etc. And calling for all people, especially Pasifika people to vote John Key out.

                I was also interested to see yet again the flax roots support for the Mana Movment, with a big core from the Glen Innes housing protests – a bunch of really committed women, and engaging with a demographic that is likely to be disengaged from parliamentary-centred politics.

          • karol 10.1.1.1.2

            Yes, I was surprised at the lack of Greens support. i did spot one Green banner – or a recycled one, with a Green election poster on the back.

            I am just about to check my photos. And will post some inthe post above – if they are any good.

            I was disappointed in the limited support – however, there were a couple of people from work, which was a pleasant surprise – and they weren’t together – probably didn’t know each other – different work places.

            • lprent 10.1.1.1.2.1

              Talked to a couple of greens I know and to various politicals. They hadn’t endorsed it basically because there wasn’t enough time with their process. There were a couple of people with signs that were old green corflute. That isn’t that uncommon. You’ll often find Labour signs under a bit of paint as well.

              As I said. Someone needs to learn about how to mobilize mass action from Greenpeace.

              It wasn’t a bad turnout. It just wasn’t a good one. And it does lend credibility to the dumbarse right wing who can usually barely get a hundred people out in one location unless someone is paying them…. Hobbits for instance.

              • karol

                The big Greenpeace-led anti-mining protest was only in Auckland, and pulled in some loyal Greenpeace people from outside Auckland – kind of like a national protest in Auckland. So hard to compare.

                But, I agree, more work needs to be done on strategies for getting people to protests, rallies, and other sorts of actions. I know plenty of people who are anti-John key and anti-asset sales, but who are just not into going on demonstrations these days.

                • Olwyn

                  With this protest, I think that the psychological force of opposition to asset sales has weakened – not because people accept them, but because of the length of time between the decision and its execution. And from the left, asset sales is now but one part of a lengthening list of grievances. I know I sort of had to push myself out the door to get there, and I am very keen on left wing solidarity that transcends party allegiances.

              • coge

                The centre right has the silent majority.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Traditional conservative National supporters are economically smart and they hate asset sales.

          • karol 10.1.1.1.3

            Oh, yes. I have some photos. I’ll upload a couple.

            It looked to me that nearly all the promotion for the Day of Action was online, and with Facebook links. that’s why I looked for links to non-FB pages, and listed the locations and times on my post. While looking for info, it looked to me that there was another Day of Action against Asset sales around the same April weekend last year.

            This year it happened to coincide with some good MSM coverage of the Lab-Green power policy.

      • Clockie 10.1.2

        Sadly, I have to say I agree. This was amateur hour stuff. Poorly organised events with low turn-outs just give your opponents a stick to bash you with. You need to KNOW that your organisation and preparation have been such that you are GUARANTEED at least a respectable turnout.

      • Murray Olsen 10.1.3

        The lack of Labour and Green presence could reflect the fact that they think political fights should be confined to parliament and the recent policy release means they’ve done their bit. Fair enough, because I think mass organised movements are necessary to stop them veering to the right. If we’d had tens of thousands on the street, we may have even stopped Rogernomics in its tracks and we’d be living in a different country.

  9. dumrse 11

    Phil Goff said… “Election (2011) will be a referendum on asset sales”. We all know the result, Labours worst turn out since Christ was a Cowboy, a bit like today from all accounts.

    • lprent 11.1

      Yeah. Well as I remember it, Bill English was based his 2002 economic policy on asset sales. What did National get – 22%?

      It isn’t a policy that draws voters on either side. However I suspect that it is something that pisses people off a lot. I suspect that was what gave Labour a third term in 2005.

  10. Viv K 12

    Greens, Labour, Mana flags here in Dunedin. Lots of placards thanks to the work of the International Socialists. A good crowd led up the main street in the sunshine by a piper (well, it is Dunedin). Metiria spoke, as did Claire Curran and many others including Grey Power. A couple of bands and great MC work by Viv Adams made for a good atmosphere. Good for the soul to hang out with people who DO give a shit. Aotearoa is NOT for sale!

    • karol 12.1

      Glad to see there was a Green speaker.

      At Auckland, Phil Twyford and Darien Fenton spoke Darien Spoke about the awful government anti-worker employment Bill and about Workers Memorial Day tomorrow.

      PS: My photos of them aren’t so great. There were a few Maori and Pasifika women speakers. Marama Davidson introduced the speakers and maintained continuity.

      • Shane Gallagher 12.1.1

        To be honest most of us saw this as a Mana/ISO thing and us Greens have done some serious hard yards with the CIR – well over 210,000 signatures collected by us. Lots of us were there in Dunedin to show support but… at the end of the day we have got the referendum coming up and that will be a big blow to National’s legitimacy. We have done a LOT of hard work and long hours already – more than anyone else; the ISO, Mana, Labour, Greypower, CTU – so I do not think that anyone can cast aspersions on our commitment to this cause.

        • Bill 12.1.1.1

          Certainly seems to have heavily branded by Mana/ISO (essentially the same people with two labels down this way). And that only serves to drive people away. And it drives people away because of this simple fact. Whereas I might share a similar concern as a devout Christian over a particular issue and be right there with them, I have to overcome hurdles if they insist I march (or whatever) beneath a crucifix. Now, they wouldn’t do that. And neither would I ask them to unwittingly/unwillingly ‘endorse’ any broader anarchist philosophy by having circled A’s plastered over every banner/poster/placard in sight.

          And yet protests/demonstartions in NZ routinely if unwittingly endorse a broader and very authoritarian brand of (so-called) left political theory by allowing a majority of slogans and what not to be branded and passed around to be carried by well meaning non-affiliated demonstrators/protestors.

          And what comes out of that is that the org in question gains a prominence and visibility above and beyond what they actually are; the issue at hand (which should be the only thing that is prominent) suffers and people stay away in their droves because of what might be called ‘the crucifix effect’.

          It’s hardly rocket science. And yes, the same holds whether it’s ISO branding, Labour Party branding, Green Party branding or whatever. The issue and the many people with their many glorious and many takes should be all that is there. Not this ‘homogenisation’ that allows a single take to portray itself as a commonality and so reduce or contain an issue within the philosophical/political bounds of a single entity. But those that seek a platform for the org they identify with just don’t want to take that on board and so diminish the potential visible opposition to the very things they claim to have concerns over. It’s stupid.

          • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1

            “Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

            He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

            He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”

            Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.”

            • Clockie 12.1.1.1.1.1

              That’s a fairly good description of the broad left in any Western democracy.

            • Bill 12.1.1.1.1.2

              And without all the projection of self onto larger identities (denominations in this case), a simple focus on the matter at hand and a declaration of ‘your’ love for ‘this guy’ might have been all that was needed and you could have had a ‘go to’ about the 1879 and 1912 Councils over a coffee somewhere.

              But maybe that was the subtlety of your point and I’m just labouring it.

          • Clockie 12.1.1.1.2

            Bill +1

          • karol 12.1.1.1.3

            There were quite a few people at the Auckland demo with DIY, home made, non branded placards. I’ll add photos of them to the post. i particularly like such DIY signs.

            • Bill 12.1.1.1.3.1

              I can’t see the logic behind allowing any branding. Asset sales (to use as an example) is about peoples’ opposition to asset sales and (potentially) wider considerations/discussions around ownership. It’s not about the Greens or Labour or Mana or the ISO or whichever other org.

              And any org. being allowed to stamp their ‘seal’ on proceedings presents hurdles to wider participation, mis-represents the diversity of opinion, rides roughshod over the subtle variences to be found in large groupings of people, and limits/narrows the parameters of debate to that which they acknowledge as thinkable.

              So in this instance, there has been (as far as I know) no critisism levelled at or discussion had on the whole concept of state ownership. It’s taken as a read; as the only possible alternative to private ownership.

              And what is it anyway that people feel compelled to have a slogan shrouded in their team colours as it were? Is it that they feel inadequate and so have a need to identify with some ‘other’ that isn’t simply the people at their side?

          • karol 12.1.1.1.4

            I have essentially seen the same kind of internal fractures in campaigns in Sydney & London. in Sydney some of the anti-Pauline Hansen/One Nation protests were fractured by divisions between pro-multicultural, and some hard left groups. yet big protests eventuated.

            Part of NZ’s problem is it small numbers.

            The most successful protests, campaigns I saw were in London, which managed to engage a wide section of the community, were in the late 1970s and 80s. They weren’t successful in stopping the Thatcherist onslaught. They engaged people through a mixture of protest marches and rallies with some headline music performances – Elvis Costello, etc.

            For myself, I never did join any faction, but I’ll support a worthy cause. getting bogged down in these factional aversions just isn’t helpful, IMO. I try to look for the positives, in campaigns.

            • Bill 12.1.1.1.4.1

              I try to look for the positives, in campaigns.

              Fair enough. But the elephants… the elephants!

              • karol

                Well, you see them as elephants, I just see them as part of a complex whole.

                i.e.: Like you, Bill, I’ve never been into working in a specific political group or party: those with some sort of collective name like SWP, Labour Party,Mana movement, Socialist Aotearoa, etc.

                Unlike you, I’m not bothered that other people focus their political activism through such groups. And, even if I was bothered, I’m not sure how any of us could stop people working through such groups. It does seem to be something that a lot of people like to work within. Many people seem to need that collective sense of a political base.

                I don’t see anything to be gained by trying to dictate that others do politics the way we do it. And I see plenty to be gained by engaging with a network of such groups in attempting a broad political campaign.

                • Bill

                  You’re missing my point. If somebody wants their activism to be done through a group, that’s fine by me. What’s not fine by me is when that group seeks to elevate its own status/visibility above that of any given issue it gets involved in.

                  • karol

                    OK. But, in the case of the anti-Asset sales day of action, I didn’t see that happening. I saw people carrying some Mana flags, ad others carrying some Labour flags, and various others, but I didn’t see any owning the protests. Their dominance was the result of others not becoming involved – for whatever reason.

                    I see that some people were put off by that. But are they just colluding with the way the mainstream marginalises anything with the name “socialist” in it, or anything associated with Minto or Harawira?

                    What I saw in Auckland, was that the demo gave more public space to Maori and Pasifika women and particularly ones involved in the state housing struggle. (The majority of the speakers were Maori/Pasifika, and the majority of them were women). I don’t see any of the more mainstream parties or political groups engaging so much with that demographic. But it is a group of people that the mainstream (nominally) “left’ parties have become somewhat disconnected from.

                    So I would rather work with such networks, that be put off by their efforts, which have given them prominence on certain actions.

  11. Rich the other 13

    Fools , most of you.
    The obvious failure of this protest march speaks volumes.
    Most of you need to wake up .
    Labour was almost absent , perhaps they are starting to catch on.
    The last election result was real , meaningful and still valid.

    Accept the result and develop different policy’s , harping on about a lost cause is a waste of time.

    • karol 13.1

      There actually were quite a few Labour flags in Auckland, and two Labour MPs gave speeches.

  12. TighyRighty 14

    So more hobbit workers turn out to protect their jobs than can be mustered to protest asset sales? Who really has the popular support?

    • karol 14.1

      You think? We’ll see.

      Phil Twyford said they got almost 400,000 signatures on the petition for a referendum.

      • Private Baldrick 14.1.1

        Me and my turnip signed

      • Doug 14.1.2

        About nine months to collect the signatures and paid for by the public. Do you call that a success?

        [lprent: I collected signatures. Never got paid a cent. Basically you’re lying about me and that is something I don’t tolerate.

        Banned for 4 weeks. Of course you could always try to show I was paid… you moronic dickhead]

        • karol 14.1.2.1

          Yeah, yeah. As petitions go it has been a major success, and most of the signature collection was done by unpaid volunteers. But that never stopped righties from continuing to peddle their misinformation and diversions.

          PS: the truth is here:

          “The Keep Our Assets coalition has today presented the biggest ever citizens-initiated referendum petition to the New Zealand Parliament,” said Mr Reid. “Those in Government should stop making snide remarks regarding bogus signatures.

          “Thousands of New Zealanders have given up their free time to go out and collect these signatures and hundreds of thousands more people have signed the Keep Our Assets petition.

        • Anne 14.1.2.2

          Bullshit to Doug.

          I went to the local flea market 7 or 8 times collecting signatures for 2 to 3 hours at a time, and nobody paid a cent towards it. So did a few thousand other signature collectors. Just because the Greens chose to allocate some $10,000 of their legally entitled public funds to collect signatures is their choice to make. Do you complain about National Party advertising paid for by legally entitled public funds? Of course not – even if you do try to deny it.

          You’re a liar.

          • TightyRighty 14.1.2.2.1

            Bullshit to you. Got any proof of your actions?

            [lprent: I collected signatures. Never got paid a cent. So you’re talking about me as well. Basically you’re lying about me and that is something I don’t tolerate.

            Banned for 4 weeks. Of course you could always try to show either Anne or I was paid and I’ll lift the ban… ]

            • Colonial Viper 14.1.2.2.1.1

              [lprent: I’m tired of some of these “discussions”. deleted]

            • TightyRighty 14.1.2.2.1.2

              Not accusing you of being banned. Just saying I didn’t see much signature gathering activity at any market or any other community event I attended over the last 18 months. I’m not saying people weren’t there, I’m not saying those that were were paid, I’m asking for an example outside of “I went to a market and collected x signatures”.

              [lprent: I’d guess you were simply not looking because that was exactly how the signatures were collected. Basically the RWNJ’s are lying in an affort to denigrate the efforts that we put in when they were saying that they were all paid for by the Greens. They damn well know that is not the case.

              I guess you didn’t attend the places I attended or live in the city I do. The number of times I told people that I’d already signed is at least above 20. And I usually resemble a hermit when I’m as heavily into coding as I have been in the last year.

              But that was exactly how the vast majority of signatures were collected. By people at events, in shopping centres, universities, at cafes, and those were just the ones I saw. I picked up signatures at work, around my family, and amongst friends. I signed the petition at a Labour party do.

              Now piss off and think about what you say when you say it.. You’re essentially trying to denigrate the process of how our ground level public participation works. It offends a lot of people who exert effort making these sorts of checks on the power of politicians work. ]

              • TightyRighty

                Sorry, wasn’t accusing you of being paid.

              • TightyRighty

                I didn’t see anyone in any of the major cities in this country I frequent. But I’m supposed to just blithely accept everything you say without criticism? Have you even thought about the criticism being levelled at the greens paying people to collect signatures?

                You’ve got the Venn diagram we believe in all wrong. It’s not that all signatory collectors are being paid, it’s that some are. Which makes some signatures suspect if not outright invalid. We can’t tell the difference on the ground between those paid and unpaid and the level of signatures they collect. So that makes a larger proportion than is probably the correct amount of the signatures suspect.

                Don’t hate on me because I’ve got the intellectual ability to think this through, hate on the greens for bringing the whole process, which includes your efforts, into disrepute.

                • framu

                  “Which makes some signatures suspect if not outright invalid. We can’t tell the difference on the ground between those paid and unpaid and the level of signatures they collect. So that makes a larger proportion than is probably the correct amount of the signatures suspect. ”

                  how?

                  Are you saying that the people who were paid were a) paid per signature and b) that they were making them up?

                  And that then means that youve got to figure out whos paid or not to make you feel… what exactly… about signing your own real name?

                  “Don’t hate on me because I’ve got the intellectual ability to think this through,”

                  well except for the bits where you havent… yes… well…. absolutely

        • georgecom 14.1.2.3

          Doug. Put together a petition supporting the asset sales, take it out for 9 months and see how far you get.

          Good luck.

      • TightyRighty 14.1.3

        You are missing he point. Stupidly or wilfully I don’t know. More people turned out to protest for the hobbit to be left alone by the agents of the unions and left political parties than to protest the partial sale of state assets by political parties of the right. Fair enough to assume the numbers turning out are only a fraction of the actual support for either cause. So therefore more people support the hobbit and those who actively support the hobbit than those who oppose partial asset sales. A movie is more important to New Zealanders than your cause du jour.

        LOL!!

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 14.1.3.1

          Hence the failure to get enough signatures to force a referendum. Clearly that indicates no-one cares, that failure to collect enough signatures, doesn’t it Tighty? Because they didn’t collect enough signatures did they Tighty, and there isn’t going to be a referendum whether you like it or not, eh?

          • TightyRighty 14.1.3.1.1

            You are literally to stupid to discuss with.

            Two protests, both short notice. One linked to an ongoing campaign championed by all the major figures and organisations on the left. One representative of the type of New Zealand taxpayers the left purports to represent. One with a referendum attached, one with considerable public support that helped with an election win.

            One got thousands of people out and solidified public opinion behind it. The other blocked traffic around the country.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 14.1.3.1.1.1

              “…literally to stupid…” :lol:

              Referendumb?

            • framu 14.1.3.1.1.2

              and one had all the attendees thinking their jobs were on the line – kinda makes a difference doesnt it

  13. Rodel 15

    Sadly the National party and ACT especially know the persuasive power of individual cupidity..very hard to combat….in direct contrast to the left’s philosophy.

  14. prism 16

    I have just seen the doco Occupy Love. There was a good slogan –
    Sorry for the inconvenience but we are trying to save the world. Nothing less! and
    Wall Street has kept us occupied – Now we will Occupy Wall Street – or something close.

    There was a meeting about constitutional reform and all the old bigots came out and wanted to relitigate the Treaty out of the Constitution. One observer feared that this result was all that is behind the activity going on. Maori that were there are no doubt used to feeling insulted but it was embarrassing, upsetting and ultimately impossible, to listen to.

    As an old person 70’s, I feel that our long life and super has a killing effect on thinking about nation building and socially supportive legislation. There is just too much free time to build up a verbal and mental barrier to moves to assist NZ to move into the 21st century as a happy united country. The grumpy old man and woman syndrome isn’t good for society. And heaven knows what we’ll be like with more going to 100. Perhaps to vote you should be earning money? Or perhaps just working for 10 hours a week doing useful stuff in the community. Less time for letter writing then.

    • Clockie 16.1

      Universal suffrage..

      Thin end of wedge. In addition, isn’t it possible that rather a lot of people over fifty were part of the generations that helped to make our society more liberal and I’m talking about from post ww2 right through to the point at which it all turned rather sour. For me that point was 1984. If you start talking about disenfranchising that group you just might find that you throw the political balance well to the conservative end of the scale.

      • Anne 16.1.1

        Agree with Clockie.

        Anyone born from the late 70s/early 80s onwards… has only experienced the so-called free market economy and thus are far more likely to listen to, and to believe the current bullshit spouted by NAct over the previous more regulated system which only turned sour when Muldoon got his hands on the tiller – a huge irony that will have largely floated over the top of the heads of the 20s/30s age group.

        And guess who was a huge admirer of Muldoon? John Key.

  15. xtasy 17

    Well, from the comments I read here, I am at least pleased that some of the many usual commenters here did go to some of these events. So you can see now, what is going on. I have not been to this action day protest march, due to illness, but I went to a fair few other protests over the last year.

    Most were having LOW turnouts, yes some dismal ones, and most that attended were the ususal hard core, resolute, active activists of the old school.

    I do share some concerns, that actually the old style approach of the same old chanting, the same old activists leading the same old supporters, coming from now so often Mana affiliated groups and others, they do seem to not reach the majority of the public out there.

    Most people, especially younger ones, are not that fond of this old, traditional activism, and when they see and hear what they see and hear, they may indeed get turned off. Hence the low turnouts. Earlier protests against asset sales were better and more widely attended.

    Another reason that few bother now may well be, that the sales are now proceeding, that Mighty River Power shares are being offered and sold already, that it is all pretty much a done deal. A referendum will not stop it, as it is not binding, and as National has already made clear, they will as major governing party not give it any credit. So this is to most all too late, an effort to raise issues, where the horse has bolted long ago.

    It will be better to focus on more and better policy releases than to continue beating the drums on issues that deserve to be raised, but that simply do not seem that much of serious relevance to the wider public now. This is all depressing and sad, but it seems to be the way things are.

    First of all, Labour need to sort their shit out and get their acts together, otherwise say also goodbye to 2014!

    Last not least, we have a completely biased, poorly informing and useless mainstream media, which is still being watched, listened to and read by the majority of the public. They do not even report about most political issues anymore, apart from some selected headline stuff.

    There was NO reporting, no discussion, no debate, no analysis, no editorial and so forth about the welfare reforms that went through Parliament as a bill without much notice. Few out there even know what is involved, and that 60 thousand sickness beneficiaries will in 3 months suddenly be “job seekers”.

    So poor organisation, lack of publicity, lack of reach, lack of public awareness, and to a fair degree lack of public interest, all this combined, is delivering a death certificate to the left. It should wake people up now. It is time to get out there, and not just focus on your blogs, but to challenge media, neighbours, work mates, people in the street, discuss, debate, inform, share and more, as mere blogging and so will not win you the next election.

    • Jane 17.1

      +1

      In this case it might have been better to not have the events at all, the low turnout is the result of the poor planning, organization and late notice etc not lack of sentiment, but it plays out like no one cares.

      • Rich the other 17.1.1

        Jane,
        It wasn’t organization or poor planning,
        Just a stupid lost cause.
        The voters endorsed the partial sale policy at the last election.

        • freedom 17.1.1.1

          For future reference RTO, 35% of registered voters is not ‘the voters’ it is some of the voters. It is actually a minority of the voters. But let’s be honest rehashing two year old arguments for your edification seems as pointless as the policies you are intent on cheering on.

          I imagine I am not alone in that I am beginning to skip reading your empty comments. You have not contributed one interesting point since you began commenting here and there are already enough mouthpieces spouting the Nact line so it all gets a bit monotonous. There are plenty of other ra ra boys and girls who at least throw the ocassional joke or a titbit of data that provokes a challenge and keeps them on the radar. The Standard is a place, as I understand it, for discussion. Your worn out slogans, your recycled rebuttals and go-nowhere strategies remind me of an organ grinder’s monkey. A flashy jacket and great at collecting sparkly baubles but ultimately the monkey is nothing but a chained animal with empty eyes. Aware of its captivity but continues to perform nonetheless.

          I am sure your slavery to holding selfish greed over civil need exposes you to a modicum of self-satisfaction but the inherent self-destructive nature of your ideology will only lead to negative economic outcomes for the majority of the populace, and that can only happen at the detriment of our society. The more opportunities you take from people the less they can do about it and eventually there are no opportunities, just a multi-choice of poor options that offer nothing but more of the same. That ever-diminishing cycle can only create more poverty. Yet even then I imagine you would still find some excuse to blame the poor for being poor. So naturally people get to a point where all the hard work and aspiration and blood and sweat and far too many tears from far too many good people does nothing but build anger grow resentment and inevitably it will harvest change. That change is as certain as the unnecessary pain your ideology thrives on. The really sad part with hollowmen like yourself has been proven throughout history. Your freedom would be such a foreign and frightening state when the change is wrought, I imagine you will simply look around for whomever grinds the organ, never realising that the chain is gone. So you dance.

          • Rich the other 17.1.1.1.1

            Freedom.
            I seem to have generated a little hostility , or is that just friendly banter ?
            The biggest danger the left faces is from people like me, I was a lefty and my voting record proves it. 1(nats) 11( labour), the last election labour , never again.
            What I would really like to see is some genuine debate on the govt’s regional development program , some real facts, exploration , mining ,irrigation schemes, etc not just, WE DON’T WANT IT’
            Many on this site cannot get past there personal self serving fairy land beliefs.
            The left and the green extreme has no thought for the people who need new opportunities , it’s this lot who are doing the damage to the future of workers and there families not the ” lets do it brigade”.

            The only factual info I have seen is on the any of this is from a report in the paper on the mining proposal at Westport , I would like to know more on others.

            Forest and bird apposes this development in the courts.
            The returns are.
            $9 million payments to DOC for pest control.
            • $11 million royalties paid to government.
            • $125 million paid in other taxes to government.
            • $321 million in dividends paid to shareholders, of which 8% ($26 million) would go to New Zealand owners.

            Just one project ,about 171 million to NZ .
            lets see some real debate with peoples welfare at the core.

            • freedom 17.1.1.1.1.1

              yes or no
              repeal the tax cuts that are costing NZ $2 billion a year ?

            • lprent 17.1.1.1.1.2

              The problem with mining is threefold.

              1. Once it has been mined then it cannot be mined again. The price of the asset is unlikely to go down. We can get a better return off it later as easily extractable resources diminish and prices rise. This helps to overcome the bloody awful costs of extracting from our teeny deposits (which as anyone who has studied geology in NZ knows this is mostly what we have) because higher prices later means that the country can get a better margin over extraction costs.

              2. The current regimes for cleanup and remediation is grossly inadequate. The obvious one at present is Pike River where there literally isn’t enough money left in the company to pay for the attempted rescue, let alone the cleanup of the site. Basically mining should not go ahead in NZ unless sufficient funds are escrowed to perform the cleanup. Mining in NZ typically folds leaving bloody dangerous sites all over the place because the companies and their investors are frigging cowboys. The taxpayers wind up losing their ‘profits’ in later cleanup ‘costs’.

              3. We’re better off in NZ to continue developing IP based industries rather than extractive. Apart from mining our soils and a few deposits like ironsands, there are no other particularly useful deposits for export in NZ.

              Whereas we’re pretty damn good at producing income from literally nothing more than good ideas and a smattering of capital and then selling them world wide. Tourism of course. Wines. Daft things like the DSIR invented idea of kiwifruit. But also my area of technologies. If we could figure out how to have enough capital available to pay for people startup and to cash out, then we’d stop losing those companies and ideas to offshore.

              Of course that’d involve our politicians working and thinking – something that they’re not too good at (especially this current government).

              • Jenny

                Someone suggested that if we stopped subidsiing Tiwai. With the country awash with cheap renewable electricity we could invite all the big IT companies to make their hub here.

                What better place in the world, remote from all the trouble spots, stable political system, and to confound all their critics, running on renewable electricity to boot.

                Of course we would have to add a few more fibre optic pipes, but think of all the jobs.

                Of course it will never happen our unimaginative politicians will never do that. I was listening to the news on national radio and as part of their review of the GCSB the government are bringing in harsh new laws to compel all IT companies operating in NZ to open all their systems to the government spy agencies. Telecom have complained that they always comply with SIS and GCSB interception orders already and never refuse them. And that there is no need for further compunction. Telecom say that the new laws actually require them if asked by the New Zealand intelligence agencies to break the codes of the overseas IT companies they deal with. They say if the new laws are enacted that they would be in serious trouble with those they have to work with overseas.

                • The Al1en

                  “we could invite all the big IT companies to make their hub here.

                  What better place in the world, remote from all the trouble spots, stable political system, and to confound all their critics, running on renewable electricity to boot.”

                  Tie that in with a commitment from Branson to set up shop using his green fund to develop clean hi tech energy sources and you have a bit of my manifesto :)

                  • lprent

                    They’d have to fix the data stream in and out of the country first. They’d suck up the remaining bandwidth in a hurry.

              • Rich the other

                No problems then.
                (1) Take the money while its there, opportunity’s come and go.
                Some resources are plentiful ,just one example to quote trev mallard on lignite in southland (when the process if perfected , this project can produce about 400 years of diesel for nz ).
                (2) Pike river, this project should have been an open caste mine , the design was to appease environmentalists.
                No reason why safe guards can’t be put in place eg insurance policy’s or even bonds put in place.
                (3) IP , excellent .

                It’s not a case of one or the other , we can have it all.

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead

                  “The correct approach would have been to exempt ships captains from any liability if a protesters boat got to close and a handful of professional protesters went to the bottom.
                  If they were trying to clamp down on dissent that would have been the correct approach.”

                  1. Propose death to fellow citizens.
                  2. Claim that all you want is a real debate.
                  3. Demonstrate that all you have to offer is facile drivel.

                  You’ll find a better home on the Right.

                  • Jenny

                    Those who take human life in defence of property, are in practice, already protected. The businessman who drove through a picket line killing a woman in Tauranga. The Manurewa businessman who chased down a young tagger and knifed him to death. (The first let off completely, the second less than a year in prison.)

                    No doubt If a Petrobras ship’s captain had ran down the protesters in the water, he too, would either have been given a very light punishment, or let off completely.

                    The protesters know this. They know that if they are killed or hurt during protests. that those who did it will either get off, or be treated very leniently by the authorities, They may even be depicted as the victims. What the protesters gamble on, is the better nature of their fellow humans not to kill, or hurt them.

                    Not always a sure bet.

                    We saw this in the anti-nuclear protests. In Auckland New Zealand Navy helicopters deliberately used their rotor downwash to systematically swamp small boats and water craft of the anti-nuclear protesters. It was only pure luck that no one was drowned in the Waitemata, as one after the other, these small vessels went down.

                    Was anyone held accountable or responsible for these deliberate actions of the naval helicopter pilots?

                    No of course not. It was the protesters own fault.

    • BM 17.2

      People are dumb and lazy
      After spending a while reading the Trade me message boards I’ve come to the conclusion that democracy really isn’t a good idea.
      The lack of basic knowledge about whats going on is staggering, whats even worse is the complete lack of interest shown about even gaining the slightest bit of knowledge regarding issues.
      It’s just self, self self and nothing else

      • Colonial Viper 17.2.1

        We always knew you were a thinly disguised authoritarian.

      • KJT 17.2.2

        That’s funny. After just a few days of listening to politicians I have come to the conclusion that Democracy is much more sensible than giving any of them total power for three years.

        The competence seems to vary from total idiocy to total mendacity with nothing in between.

        In fact Management studies/research will tell you that the more people involved in a decision the better it is likely to be.

        It is no accident that Switzerland, the nearest country to a true democracy, is one of the most stable, equal and wealthy, in the world.

      • ghostrider888 17.2.3

        people are often foolish and self-centred BM, and increasingly so it appears

      • prism 17.2.4

        BM
        Trade Me doesn’t show a high standard in its member communications forum, true. There are many who seem very young and inexperienced in dealing with others in a formal way and just generally naive. They are at the start of being independent thinkers.

      • xtasy 17.2.5

        BM – I do not get it:

        You quote this:

        “People are dumb and lazy
        After spending a while reading the Trade me message boards I’ve come to the conclusion that democracy really isn’t a good idea.
        The lack of basic knowledge about whats going on is staggering, whats even worse is the complete lack of interest shown about even gaining the slightest bit of knowledge regarding issues.
        It’s just self, self self and nothing else”

        Is that not exactly what your preferred government and you are promoting? So why pretend your “upset” about this? You seem to have an interest in all this status quo, and your comment here is just one full of hidden contempt, so bugger off and get a real life, while you really have none!

    • karol 17.3

      I also think that it’s harder to motivate people against something like share floats, that are outside their daily experience.

      There needs to be campaigns that hit people where they live: high power prices; lack of affordable housing; stress around employment/unemployment; struggles of beneficiaries, etc.

  16. dumrse 18

    Show us the photos of Hamilton.

    [lprent: You’ll notice that the photos are from the author who lives in Auckland? That the photos are of the Auckland demo that she (and I) attended.

    While you may be a dumbarse, I’m sure that even you can figure out why there are no pictures in Hamilton on this post. If you cannot then you should seriously reconsider your ability to contribute here. Of course if you are too dumb to make that consideration, then I could always make it on your behalf? ]

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