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The Standard

The joy of tory trolls

Written By: - Date published: 8:54 am, January 29th, 2010 - 31 comments
Categories: phil goff - Tags:

One of the great pleasures I get from writing for The Standard is making the trolls scream.

There’s no better sign that you’re on the right track than when you sit down and think through a post, do the research and try to put forward your argument in a clear and concise manner and the first right-wing response is “tipical lickspittle leftard” or “your just a commmie fckwit”.

Of course this often leads to a ban as we like to keep a reasonable level of debate but nothing lets you know you’ve threatened the world view of the arrogant right better than their misspelled, badly punctuated, ad hominem frothing.

I imagine Phil Goff and his team is savouring exactly that feeling this morning after the government’s response to his speech hit the same shrill note.

After all when the best John Key can come up with is “it’s a dumb idea” and they put Tony Ryall on Morning Report to splutter about the “same old Labour crowd” and “Labour did it too” without actually addressing the substance of the issue, it shows you’re onto a winner.

All I can hope is that they follow Vernon Small’s advice and stay on message. They got a good hit in, the trick now is not to get too clever with the message and to keep the hammer down.

31 comments on “The joy of tory trolls”

  1. I thought Key looked overjoyed last night – he’s probably been apprehensive about this speech for weeks – and the best Goff could come up with was a policy that’s only going to impact on a tiny handful of Wellington based public servants?

    Who is this policy supposed to appeal to? Why should anyone change their vote because of it? What does it have to do with the issues Goff addressed in his speech?

    • Zetetic 1.1

      danyl. you’re not too flash at this politics thing eh?

      Goff is creating them and us. Us – working Kiwis. Them – overpaid execs, capitalists, and other bludgers.

      Labour can stand beside doctors nurses teachers wanting a raise. Every time the CEOs get one National is on the side of the elite.

      “the best Goff could come up with was a policy that’s only going to impact on a tiny handful of Wellington based public servants” That’s a Key line. You’ve bought it. That makes you a sucker. You’ve read the speech (haven’t you?). You know it is full of stuff.

      The CEO policy was just the grabber. The rest of the content is what they’ll fill out in the year ahead. It’s all the same message – Labour is for working Kiwis. for jobs, for good wages. Against bludgers, rich and poor. against dumb crime policies. against money grabs for the rich

      This speech is the most clever single piece of politics since Orewa. Now, they’ve got to stick to it.

      • Lew 1.1.1

        If only it had created the sort of strong us/them distinction you describe, in explicit terms. It didn’t really, and while there’s much to be happy with in the speech, I’m not convinced it will cut through for anyone who’s not already a Labour partisan.

        We’ll see, I suppose. I’ll be thrilled if I’m wrong.

        As for it being the smartest bit of politics since Orewa — I think you’re easily pleased.

        L

        • Bright Red 1.1.1.1

          Lew. The power of political rhetoric is sometimes in not being explicit. being too explicit can actually put walls up in the mind of the audience.

          • Lew 1.1.1.1.1

            BR, Labour’s greatest danger at present is fading into insignificance, not in turning people off. The time for “softly-softly, don’t scare the horses” politics, if there ever was one, has well and truly passed.

            L

      • lukas 1.1.2

        “Goff is creating them and us”

        So Labour are being divisive? Iwi Kiwi 2.0

        • Lew 1.1.2.1

          At a demographic level all two-party politics (and ours remains predominantly a two-party system) is about defining us and them. There are many ways of doing that. Iwi/Kiwi was a particularly deleterious way. What Goff’s doing isn’t the tenth part as bad.

          L

        • Bright Red 1.1.2.2

          all politics is about the division of power – and from that resources, wealth etc – between competing classes in society. It’s always about us and them, that’s why we have political parties and not just a giant love-in.

          the trick is to show or, in the case of the Nats, trick most people into thinking your party stands for them – the everyday good person – against ‘them’ – in this case the bludgers, rich and poor.

    • IrishBill 1.2

      Like I said on your blog, the policy’s not ideal but it’s a safe way of sending the message about reining in high-earners. I would have preferred an announcement focused on a heavy tax on financial speculation or on expatriated profits but I’ve long since given up on expecting the world to revolve around what I want.

      There’s plenty I’d have changed about the speech but I still see it as a step in the right direction and a possible foundation for further leftward steps. Rome wasn’t built in a day, Danyl, and if your expectation is that you’ll wake up one day and find the opposition has published a manifesto that matches what you want word for word then you need to reappraise your understanding of politics.

    • fraser 1.3

      in some ways i think key walked into a bit of a trap with his answer.

      a leader of a party that campaigned on cutting public sector spending (among other things) and has banged on about wage freezes and only paying what the country can afford suddenly has a much different attitude when it comes to the big boys.

      that coupled with the contempt implied in his reply spoke volumes.

      the real question is can labour leverage it?

      captcha “pay”

  2. Andrei 2

    I thought it was a singularly dreary speech – uninspired and insipid.

    Clearly though Mr Goff was preaching to the Choir since you seem to think its rhetoric matched that of the Gettysburg Address or something.- so it hit the right note somewhere I suppose.

    • Marty G 2.1

      Goff isn’t trying to win you over, Andrei. He doesn’t need to and never could because you’re a rightwing ideologue.

      All he needs to do is win back the 6% who voted Labour in 1999, 2002, and 2005 and left in 2008.

      • Lew 2.1.1

        Quite right, Marty — but (for a change) I’d go further. A speech like this shouldn’t just be dreary to people like Andrei — it should infuriate and offend and anger them, and cause wailing and gnashing of teeth among their ranks.

        Yeah, it is a gradual project, but I think there was room for a bit more fire in this one.

        L

        • Zorr 2.1.1.1

          In this case Lew, it is every possibility that Andrei is here using terms like “dreary” in the effort to downplay the speech as much as possible. From what I have heard (because I don’t visit), Kiwiblog is more than up in arms enough over this so as to make up for the rest of the internet… 😛

          • Lew 2.1.1.1.1

            Zorr, possible, but I don’t see much to get angry about in that speech, even for wingnuts. Even David is only one notch above “mock” and the KBR aren’t out of second gear.

            L

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.2

          A speech like this shouldn’t just be dreary to people like Andrei — it should infuriate and offend and anger them, and cause wailing and gnashing of teeth among their ranks.

          It probably doers Lew but, considering the topic of the post, do you really think he’ll admit that?

      • Bored 2.1.2

        Thanks for that, I pointed out a month ago that only 1 in 10 people moving your way equals a 20% swing. (i.e the NACTs 20% lead at present would become 0% if 1 person in ten switched..).I got roundly rubbished by the usual triumphantalist RWRBs.

  3. Neil 3

    I’m sure Goff will continue hammering home the message that top civil servants are overpaid and destroying our economy. The public have been baying for blood for quite some time.

  4. randal 4

    dont worry about phill goff.
    when the country has had enough of the posturing and unprincipled tory government their polls will go south in a big hurry and they wont come back.
    the working people built this country and while they may be fickle in the end they know who is the best party and all this flummery and public relations blits can only last for so long before the nats get turned out on their bums.
    the bums.

  5. That’s a Key line. You’ve bought it. That makes you a sucker.

    Believe it or not I came up with my opinion all on my own. I don’t need politicians and their press secretaries to tell me what to think.

    As a left-wing progressive I believe in the public service – I think we need high quality public servants and I believe they should be well paid. I don’t think you can justify Paul Reynolds style salaries, but paying someone 1/10th of his income to be the soliciter general or run the corrections department seems reasonable.

    Labour have copied this policy off the conservative party in the UK. It’s a really, really good tory party policy – it ties in with their core message of smaller government, gutting the public service etc. And it works for them because they’ve been out of power for over a decade so they have no responsibility for pay rates in the public service.

    It’s an inane policy for a left-wing party that’s just been voted out of government. Espiner and Garner made Goff look like a fool last night.

    • Bright Red 5.1

      If you were thinking for yourself you would know that the speech had a lot more to it than the CEO policy.

      Face it, your opinion on this speech changed after Key told you what to think on the news. read your post from before that.

  6. My reaction at 12:33 yesterday:

    Update: The subject and themes of the speech are fine but the policies seem like a random grab-bag; it’s hard to imagine who they’re supposed to win over and I think they’ll be easy for Key to swat away: ‘we need to attract high calibre leaders to run the public service and so we pay them accordingly’, ‘a drastic rise in the minimum wage will cripple small and medium businesses and put countless struggling New Zealanders out of work’.

  7. Of course itr was the same old labour speech.

    Rich people are mean, and poor people are nice.

    I saw on the news a couple of nights ago, the media was interviewing this woman, who
    was complaining the minunum wage raise wasnt enough, strangly the reporter did ask her, when she left school, what grades she got, and what career choices she made.

    But I guess labur has never been about personal responsibility.

  8. gingercrush 8

    This speech is the most clever single piece of politics since Orewa. Now, they’ve got to stick to it.

    Stick to what? There were so many separate pieces to the speech that overall the message wasn’t coherent. Goff also seems confused as to what economy is doing.

  9. Whatever Goff said would have been trumpeted here simply because it wasn’t Key.

    Yet the headline stuff could easily have been Key.

    I’ve stated before that Labour has a fundamental challenge on many fronts. Nats won the election because they won the centre. Many here want Labour to focus on policies that appeal more to the left, not the centre. Likewise, Labour has challenges with core constituencies with Maori and the watermelon Greens.

    As an aside, I’d love to see the cost benefit analysis of Goff’s plan to cap Govt CEO’s – that ain’t going to fund $15hr min wage.

    • felix 9.1

      Yet the headline stuff could easily have been Key

      I keep hearing this but I don’t get it. Perhaps some examples would help?

  10. randal 10

    felix it is near impossible to get a reply from a computer designed to look like a real person.
    anyway the point is that Phil Goff has made it clear which side he is on and it is not the overprivileged over wealthy over stuffed bunchof geeks who believe that they are entitled to everything.

  11. Perhaps some examples would help?

    Key campaigned on capping the public service during the last election (obviously there’s a distinction between capping CEO salaries and the whole service, but the sentiment is the same).

    • Zetetic 11.1

      yeah a complete distinction. One is like calling for a maximum income. The other is like calling for no more jobs.

  12. randal 12

    how about calling for nationwide broadband so all the dweebs can stay home and thieve off the internet?

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    National’s cutting of the KiwiSaver kickstart is incredibly short-term thinking, typical of a Budget that is woefully short on ideas to generate wealth and opportunity, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “New Zealand’s savings rate is far too low. KiwiSaver… ...
    1 day ago
  • National hits the panic button for its 7th Budget
    National has hit the panic button for its 7th Budget in a desperate attempt to look like they’re taking action to reduce our shameful child poverty rates, but they are giving with one hand and taking with the other, Opposition… ...
    2 days ago
  • Panic and back-flips can’t hide twin deficits
    National’s token measures to fight fires they have left burning for seven long years can’t hide a Budget that is long on broken promises, short on vision and fails to reach surplus, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “After being… ...
    2 days ago
  • Auckland land measure seven years too late
    National are so desperate to look like they are doing something about the Auckland housing crisis they have dusted off Labour’s 2008 inventory of government land available for housing and re-announced it, says Labour’s housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “Despite National… ...
    2 days ago
  • Access to gender reassignment surgery essential
    I was frankly disgusted to hear the Minister for Health say that funding gender reassignment surgeries is a “nutty idea”. A recent study found that in New Zealand 1% of young people identified themselves as transgender, and 3% were unsure… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    3 days ago
  • Global milk prices now lowest in 6 years
    The latest fall in the global dairy price has brought it to the lowest level in six years and shows there must be meaningful action in tomorrow’s Budget to diversify the economy, says Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson. “Dairy prices… ...
    3 days ago
  • Big risks as CYF checks stopped
    Revelations that Child, Youth and Family is no longer assisting home-based early childhood educators by vetting potential employees should set alarm bells ringing, Labour Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. “Doing away with an extra mechanism for checking potential new employees… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • Housing crisis about real people not numbers
    The Government’s continued failure to tackle the housing crisis is seeing thousands of vulnerable Kiwis being kept off social housing waiting lists, while others, who are on the list, are being forced to live in cars and garages, says Labour’s… ...
    4 days ago
  • State of origin
    Kiwis are increasingly concerned about the food they give their families. New Zealand consumers have the right to know where their food has come from, particularly when it involves animals, and should be able to expect our Government to label… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    4 days ago
  • Relationships Aotearoa
    It is disturbing that Relationships Aotearoa, a voluntary organisation set up in 1949 to help couples struggling with their relationships following the upheavals of World War II, may be forced to close, says Acting Spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community… ...
    4 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • An economy that is just working for some is an economy that is not working
    The National Party presents itself as a great manager of the economy, but if the economy is only working for some we really need to question that assertion. Alongside the perpetually elusive surplus, the levels of risk in our economy are… ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie MP
    4 days ago
  • House prices to a crack $1 million in 17 months
    The average Auckland home is on track to cost $1 million in 17 months’ time if nothing substantial is done to rein in soaring price rises, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “Auckland’s house prices have skyrocketed 63 per cent… ...
    4 days ago
  • Vital support services can’t be left in lurch
    The National Government has big questions to answer about how a provider of services to thousands of vulnerable New Zealanders is set to fold, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. Relationships Aotearoa which provides support and counselling to families, individuals… ...
    5 days ago
  • Treasury and IRD on a capital gains tax
    Both the Treasury and IRD have been advising the National Government on the benefits of a capital gains tax. Documents released to the Green Party under an Official Information Act request show that John Key has been selective with the… ...
    GreensBy Russel Norman MP
    5 days ago
  • Charity legislation needs review
    It is unacceptable that the big corporate based charities claim  millions in annual income tax exemptions, while small community based and operated non-profit organisations  struggle to gain official charity status, Labour’s acting spokesperson for the Voluntary and Community Sector Louisa… ...
    5 days ago
  • John’s panic-Key response to housing crisis
    John Key needs to tell New Zealanders what caused his sudden change of heart that led to the Government’s scrambled and last-minute housing measures, Opposition Leader Andrew Little says. “The Prime Minister’s sudden rush of blood to his head followed… ...
    5 days ago
  • Keep our Assets Christchurch Campaign: An update
    I recently presented my submission to keep Christchurch Council assets at the Christchurch City Council’s public hearings on its 10 year plan on 13 May. The hearings are live-streamed and recorded so you can watch them on www.ccc.govt.nz. The Council’s… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    5 days ago
  • John Key finally admits there’s a housing crisis
    John Key’s weak measures to rein in the astronomical profits property speculators are making are an admission – finally – that there is a housing crisis, Labour Leader Andrew Little says. “But yet again National is tinkering with the housing… ...
    6 days ago
  • Government stifles voices in CYFs review
    The Government’s exclusion of the Māori Women’s Welfare League in a panel on the future of CYFs is a cynical ploy to stifle views, says Labour’s Māori Development Spokesperson Nanaia Mahuta. “It's unbelievable that a significant review on the future… ...
    1 week ago
  • Speech to the Otago Chamber of Commerce
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. It’s a pleasure as always to be back in the town that raised me. Growing up in St Kilda meant that there was one thing that was a big… ...
    1 week ago
  • Key can’t just be Prime Minister for Parnell
    John Key must show New Zealanders in next week’s Budget that he is more than the Prime Minister for Parnell, and is also the Prime Minister for Pine Hill, Putararu and Palmerston North, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. In… ...
    1 week ago
  • Stop the conversions
    This week, some Waikato locals took me and intrepid photographer Amanda Rogers on a tour of some  lakes and waterways in their region, and up to the massive dairy conversions in the upper catchment of the Waikato River. It… ...
    GreensBy Catherine Delahunty MP
    1 week ago
  • More regional jobs go in Corrections reshape
    News that 194 Corrections staff are to lose their jobs will have ramifications not only for them and their families but for the wider community, Labour’s Corrections spokesperson Kelvin Davis says. Prison units at Waikeria, Tongariro and Rimutaka face closure… ...
    1 week ago
  • Government’s climate meetings off to a bumpy start
    On Wednesday, I attended a hui and an evening meeting that the Government had organised in Nelson as part of its climate change consultation tour, to support the Nelson community telling the Government to take meaningful action on climate change.… ...
    GreensBy Steffan Browning MP
    1 week ago
  • Taxpayers the only ones left feeling blue
    Ministry of Social Development bosses could have saved themselves thousands of dollars in consultants’ fees by providing staff with rose-tinted spectacles, Labour’s State Services spokesperson Kris Faafoi says. A report out today reveals the Ministry is spending over half a… ...
    1 week ago
  • Why are the regions still facing restrictions?
    Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford is questioning why the regions should continue to be saddled with LVR lending restrictions announced by the Reserve Bank today. “Labour has been calling for the regions to be exempted from LVRs for the best… ...
    1 week ago
  • The high costs of weak environmental regulation
    Te Waihora/Lake Ellesmere is described on the Department of Conservation website as “Canterbury’s largest and New Zealand’s fifth largest [lake], and an internationally important wildlife area.” But the lake is also polluted by nutrients leaching from farms in the catchment.… ...
    GreensBy Eugenie Sage MP
    1 week ago
  • Submissions to Wellington City Council on their Gambling Venues Policy
    Every three years Councils across the country are required to check that their gambling venue policies are still fit for purpose and they can choose to consult on their policy if they are thinking of making changes. Councils don’t have… ...
    GreensBy Denise Roche MP
    1 week ago
  • Reserve Bank action shows Govt out of touch and out of ideas
    The Reserve Bank’s unprecedented measures today show it understands the serious risks of the overheating housing market – in complete contrast to John Key’s refusal to acknowledge the crisis, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says. “The Bank is right to… ...
    1 week ago
  • Send us your snaps: 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year we've hit a milestone. We're turning 25.To help celebrate a quarter of a century, please send us your photos from the last 25 years of the Green Party Aotearoa New Zealand! Note: Photos must be jpg, gif or… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 25 Years of the Green Party
    This year the Green Party sends 25. To help us celebrate a quarter of a century please send us you photos of 25 years of the Green Party!Photos must be jpg,gif or png and smaller than 2MB. If you are… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Bay growth plan too little too late
    Today’s Bay of Plenty growth study from MBIE is another example of Government spin - lots of talk but little action, says Labour’s Regional Development spokesperson David Cunliffe.  “This is a region that desperately needs to develop the downstream processing… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government bows to ACC pressure
     The Government has finally buckled to pressure from Labour and the New Zealand public in making a half billion dollar cut to ACC levies, but the full benefits are two years away,” says Opposition Leader Andrew Little.  “$500 million over… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • False figures cloud Auckland transport facts
    The Prime Minister should apologise and issue a correction after both he and Transport Minister Simon Bridges have been caught out misrepresenting facts on Auckland’s transport spending, Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says. "Both John Key and Simon Bridges have… ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt books confirm National can’t post surplus
    The last publication of the Government’s books before the budget shows National will break its promise of seven years and two election campaigns and fail to get the books in order, says Labour’s Finance Spokesperson Grant Robertson. “The Government is… ...
    2 weeks ago

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