Book Review: David Holmgren’s ‘RetroSuburbia’

Written By: - Date published: 6:05 am, July 22nd, 2022 - 93 comments
Categories: climate change, sustainability - Tags: , , , ,

Published in 2018, Retrosuburbia is a manual for sustainable and resilient suburban living, particularly suited to Australia and New Zealand. Written by permaculture co-originator David Holmgren, it follows a decade of his work on retrofitting the suburbs in the face of climate change and related crises.

This review from 2018 by Rob Hopkins, writer, environmentalist, and co-founder of the Transition Towns network, is reposted from here with permission.


Retrosuburbia: the downshifter’s guide to a resilient future.  Meliodora Publishing 2018.  Available here (UK) or here (elsewhere). 

[online version available by “pay what you feel“. Also available in New Zealand libraries]

I am increasingly fascinated by two words I think are vital to our future, but which I see declining in the world around us, “what if?” Navigating a way to a safe, nurturing and liveable future requires our coming together to create What If spaces, places and events where we can come together with others to ask those questions. The Transition movement, for me, has always been one of those spaces, the invitation for people to join up with others to look at their place through what if lenses.

David Holmgren’s new book is a fascinating, and intoxicating blast of ‘what if?’ which ought to be put through every suburban letterbox in the world, although given its size I have doubts that it would fit. I am a huge Holmgren fan. ‘Permaculture: principles and pathways beyond sustainability’ changed my life. The ‘what if?’ at the heart of RetroSuburbia is “what if our suburbs were reimagined and repurposed to be sustainable, productive and vibrant?” Good question.

It takes his ‘permaculture flower’ at its basis, as the lens through which it looks at the possibilities of how the suburbs could be if catalysed with imagination and possibility. Although written very much for the Australian context, there is much in its almost 600 pages to inspire suburban permaculturists anywhere.

There’s a treasury of Holmgren insight on topics from retrofitting your house, harvesting water and storing food, to setting up a food garden, managing with less than perfect urban soils, working with animals in the suburbs and maximising diversity. You’ll find guidance on different models of living together, making decisions, creating a livelihood, reimagining your family finances, planning for disasters, ‘rearing self-reliant and resilient children’ and so much more.

While ‘Permaculture’ was a book that had so many brilliant ideas it struggled sometimes to imagine that you might need some time and space, or some nice photos even, to be able to digest them, ‘Retrosuburbia’ is a different beast. Presented in full colour it is rich with photos, case studies from his own life and the lives of people he knows, every page drips with ideas, experience and advice with dirt beneath its nails.

A couple of years ago, David and I debated publicly his ‘Crash on Demand’ paper, where he declared that “an argument can be mounted for putting effort into precipitating that crash, the crash of the financial system”. I disagreed, arguing that we needed to be very careful what we wish for. What I love about ‘Retrosuburbia’ is that the concerns that underpinned that paper are still present here, but beautifully couched in an utterly practical, utterly convincing vision for the suburbs.

It is the perfect riposte to anyone who says “permaculturists/Transitioners/greenies just want to take us back”. Although that’s always a lazy and rather pointless accusation, this book shows a way forward in which human culture, in all its aspects, can flourish. This is my vision for the future. It’s beautiful, it’s delicious, and it’s entirely possible.

You want ‘Take Back Control’? In these pages, you got it. This book will become the banner, the standard, around which people everywhere reimagine their future and then make it happen. And written on that banner? Two words. “What if”.

93 comments on “Book Review: David Holmgren’s ‘RetroSuburbia’ ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    "It is the perfect riposte to anyone who says “permaculturists/Transitioners/greenies just want to take us back”."

    Hope RedLogix has time to comment today 🙂

    • RedLogix 1.1

      I bought a copy of this book about 18 months ago. A bit of a curates egg tbh.

      The short answer to your question is that while it packages up a vivid and creative re-imagining of suburbia, it has little to nothing useful to say about the industrial world that ultimately sustains it.

      You want vaccines, N95 masks, the internet, modern dentists, effective contraception – and so on – it’s not in this book.

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

        Having those things without crashing the entire system is the challenge!

        Personally, I think our focus needs to be on cauterising our pathologies, internal and external (greed, neoliberalism etc.) rather than picking off manifestations (such as wide-screen tvs).

        • RedLogix 1.1.1.1

          You might enjoy this:

          Small floating houses made out of cardboard might not be everyone's cup of tea, but they are being considered as a housing solution in the Netherlands' unused harbours.

          Humans are endlessly creative and adaptable.

          • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.1

            Thanks. I do like that. Do you know about chinampas? They're a way/the way forward! 🙂

            • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.1.1

              I have a lot of time for these methods. Some of them are quite ancient the chinampas you mention. They do vary a lot according to geography and climate; for instance the Vietnamese have done low-tech variations on aquaculture for many hundreds of years – but the Australians updated it with modern materials and tech to make it even more productive.

              In the automation game one of our target growth sectors is agriculture. We are seeing a strong trend away from vast swathes of cropping land toward more intensive, tech-oriented and highly automated methods.

              Another example we have development customers working on autonomous vision controlled machines that can scan a plant, decide whether it is a weed or not, and what state of health it is in – and then either apply a tiny squirt of herbicide, pesticide, or the correct nutrient. This highly targeted approach might massively reduce chemical and labour inputs, while lifting productivity even further.

              I understand this highly tech approach might not be quite your cup of tea – but over time I would argue there is a lot of potential for the highly observational methods of permaculture and traditional tech you are comfortable with, to be updated with better science and technology. The potential outcomes are probably well beyond my meagre imagination.

              • Robert Guyton

                Very good, RedLogix.

                Permit me, if I may, to quote you, with a minor tweak, to illustrate a possible down-side to your preferred line of travel 🙂

                "Another example we have development customers working on autonomous vision controlled machines that can scan a person, decide whether it is a threat or not, and what state of health it is in – and then either apply a tiny squirt of mammalicide, or the correct nutrient."

            • Molly 1.1.1.1.1.2

              There's a good segment at the beginning of this episode of Monty Don's Around the World in 80 Gardens on the floating gardens of Mexico, for those who haven't seen them.

              Also, a good follow up to Cuba.

              https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwyeao

              • Robert Guyton

                The Southland Plains were once largely wetland. There are moves afoot to return as much of that "water feature" as possible, for the sake of water quality and mahi nga kai. It's not Mexico down here, but there's potential for floating gardens, for sure!

                • Molly

                  The fact that they are still being used so productively is incredibly encouraging for those looking to replicate.

                • DB Brown

                  It's been decades now and I have not needed to clean my aquaponic fish tank (home aquarium). I gave up testing after five years. Rock solid pH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate…

                  I got a bunch of early tomatoes out of it last year, grown all manner of food in it. It's mostly ferns now (less faffing about) and run a tomato out of it in spring (and poke the vine out the window to get full sun).

                  Anyway, what I'm saying is, some of this tech has serious potential. I've had a bunch of systems, each surprising in what it could do. One of them bred banded kokopu in captivity for the first time. The more natural an environment, the less work and guesswork an operator has to do to get a result.

                  In Tokyo they're now looking at aquaponic techniques with stacked arrays of plants. I did that twenty years ago, but at the time it seemed a big white elephant for NZ… Was fun building it (16 m2 greenhouse with layered aquaponic beds, some continuous flow, some nft, some ebb and flow… (p.s. continuous flow yields the most).

                  There were issues with excess heat in summer, and I didn't want to be running devices to try cool a home system, so I broke it down after a couple of years. But it could produce well enough. The watercress was the BEST.

                  I had dodgy soil, leading me to aquaponics and other ventures. But eventually I turned to healing soils, hippie ways, and a turn round the grounds of university.

                  A food forest is much easier for me, watch trees grow, harvest them, eat. But for production systems, aquaponics is better than hydro, just needs some expertise applied for market consistency.

                  • RedLogix

                    It's been decades now and I have not needed to clean my aquaponic fish tank (home aquarium). I gave up testing after five years. Rock solid pH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate…

                    Interesting you should get such stable results from what sounds like a small system. I would guess you are running it well within it's capacity.

                    From what I have read however, the larger the volume of water in the system the easier it is to keep stable when running closer to capacity.

                    • DB Brown

                      Water volume (having more) modulates swings in temperature and pH. It also provides more O2 overall when demand is high. Low 02 as temps jump is a major fish killer.

                      A good biofilter is the real key to the resilience of these systems, much the same as it is with soils the unseen biology are the unsung heroes. A good biofilter also reduces pathogens in each pass of the water and so introduced parasite issues with fish simply resolved themselves.

                      When you want to stock high and produce well temp control is a must, and that can be very expensive without good design. So can the drugs. A good biofilter, and good design… Number one – having fish suited to the climate.

                      Also, these are vegetable growing systems with bonus fish, not fish growing systems with bonus veg.

                      Ideally you'd put a large garden outfit uphill of a medium aquaponic outfit… both part of one system. Then engineer it well so gravity and the sun do most of the systems work for you.

                    • RedLogix

                      Read that with interest thank you. I would definitely tend toward the vege with bonus fish end of town.

                      With that in mind, what species of fish would you suggest for a climate like Coromandel?

                    • Robert Guyton

                      " the unseen biology are the unsung heroes. "

                      This is the bit that's being missed, especially regarding carbon capture.

                    • DB Brown

                      "With that in mind, what species of fish would you suggest for a climate like Coromandel?"

                      Therein lies the rub. Most 'suitable fish' for NZ are simply not allowed here, or are very prohibitive to work with.

                      Ideally you'd want an omnivore. I've raised out eel and kokopu up here but it wasn't as warm as it has been recently. I also bred insects to try keep their feed bill reasonable, and they were all rather spoilt with worms, crickets etc I found while gardening.

                      The problem with aquaculture is the fish food. Despite using by-products of other industries in reality it's ten parts ocean fish to make one part terrestrial. Not sustainable, was never even close.

                      Back when I was keeping up much research was going into alternate protein sources for fish feed, including lupin. i have no idea how far they've come. We've advanced in pea-proteins for humans…

                      Anyways, sorry to not answer properly, it's a complicated and prohibitive mess trying to make sensible aquaponics in NZ.

                    • RedLogix

                      Aha – I suspected as much. I had looked about a while back and not found anything useful, and your answer confirms why.

                      Thanks.

                    • DB Brown

                      So, the real issue with farming fish in any manner is food for feeding the fish. No matter where we stand on the issue of using ocean fish to feed farmed fish, the public hate it and the resultant bad PR has turned many customers away from farmed fish.

                      Solution? Hermetia illucens aka Black Soldier Fly (BSF).

                      I read a (failed) doctorate application about twenty years back. Some ahead of his time kid with a 180 page proposal to take the wastes of Sao Paulo and turn them into fish and poultry feed. It was an amazing document.

                      He was largely ignored as a nutter. Today he'd be called a genius.

                      BSF have many desirable features. Like the fact they can crawl up slopes steeper than all other larvae, so competition simply can't get out of their (well designed) colonies. Or maybe the way they shed their skin and disinfect themselves as they SELF HARVEST… or how they generate heat to survive temperatures outside of a typical range (stopping production, but not crashing the colony).

                      So you get a waste stream – biomass e.g. food waste and faeces – > Soldier Flies – > Fish – > Liquid nutrient and compost – > plants – plant waste and faeces for – > soldier flies…

                      The system is now starting to mimic nature, where one organisms trash is the next organism’s treasure. Efficiencies. And excess to get fat off, captured via sunlight.

                      Turn shit into high value products.

                      The water savings of aquaponics is also remarkable. Hence the big buy-in from Australians.

      • weka 1.1.2

        This rather misses the point. Retrofitting the suburbs increases our chances of retaining the best of industrial tech while transitioning it to something sustainable. eg retrofitting glass conservatories to the front of houses to increase passive heating and enable food growing relies on glass making, and industrial technology. No-one in permaculture or transition town circles is saying we shouldn't use that tech nor try and preserve it (the rewilders probably are).

        Binary framing of powerdown vs industrial tech decreases our chances.

        The situation is incredibly serious, so we are left with few options. Powering down a la Retrosuburbia/Transition Towns/Regenag etc while adapting civ is one easy and very effective option available right now, the only thing stopping that is political and social inertia (and lack of awareness/imagination), there are no gnarly technical problems involved.

        Or we wait for some hail mary pass from high tech that may never happen. Even if it does happen we still have to make it sustainable and resilient, and we still have all the other problems that power down attempts to solve (ecology, food growing, housing, jobs etc).

        Again, the point is both/and. We can power down and if the high tech arrives, we can then make sure it is sustainable and integrate it. If it doesn't arrive, we've still got something solid and resilient to work with.

        • Molly 1.1.2.1

          For these types of approaches, one of the major impediments is local government by-laws and district plans.

          Local projects can thrive when they have the support of councils, but many similar projects struggle when support is not there, or council actively works against.

          A combination of low-tech and high-tech is likely to be part of our solution.

          • weka 1.1.2.1.1

            yep. Local body elections coming up soon 😉 This is one very easy way to make a difference collectively.

  2. roy cartland 2

    Does 'take us back' mean 'take us backwards or 'take us over'?

    • weka 2.1

      I read it as backwards. It's a common trope from people who see industrialisation as our only option.

      • roy cartland 2.1.1

        I used to get that a lot as well, "ThE gReeNies WiLl tAkE uS baCk tO the hORse aNd CaRt!!". When actually, the outdated way is actually the current way; the 'green' way (now the only option) is fully focused on the newest tech as well:

        https://www.solein.com/ – mircobiotic protein

        https://www.mycoworks.com/ mushroom leather

        etc

  3. Rosemary McDonald 3

    Speaking about Control…Victorian permaculturists Patrick and Meg (https://artistasfamily.is/) have put out a new video highlighting what they describe as the 'enclosure' by government, councils and corporations.

    "Living outside the industrial grid, this safety net, and the control that that safety net demands of us…and trying to prevent us from being fully human…"

    Well worth 11 minutes to get the entire story.

    https://commons.tube/w/o6bfDzwUKJP4KK1sEwfAX1

    And with governments and councils and corporations having enjoyed a high level of reach (some of us would say overreach) for the past few years, with little if any benefit to we the people, more and more of us will withdraw and draw on the resilience we have been encouraged/forced to foster.

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.1

      Oh, and Patrick has a nice long chat with his mate David here…

      https://commons.tube/w/9boYGyMSFCDknhTpY1ym3M

    • Robert Guyton 3.2

      "we the people"?

    • weka 3.3

      Artists as Family are political and philosophical anarchists (so is Holmgren). The road side stall rules are such bullshit, I agree a lot with what they are saying in terms of self and community resilience.

      Where I disagree is that this is a problem inherently of 'government'. I see it as a consequence of neoliberalism, which is about political and corporate power. Councils don't make decisions like this because they're part of a movement to take over and control everything. They act out of their world view, and I'm guessing in this case it's something like wanting to prevent being charged if someone dies from eating roadside preserves. Probably also a revenue generating scheme that the accountancy team came up with, again neoliberalism, councils are businesses and having a system of fees and inspections brings higher safety and an income, win/win!

      Stupid as given the state of the world, cost of living, etc. But the reason I outline this is because the anarchist and libertarians need to work with the socialist liberals (and vice versa, both have challenges here) if we are to create the kind of community resiliency that AAF are talking about.

      This is important in the NZ context too. I have a foot in both worlds, so I am less afraid of the powerdown than many because I am used to being around people who know how to be resilient outside of the mainstream. But I also know that those people aren't particularly well organised in terms of making community work, in part because they're libertarians with a high focus on the individual.

      I do see potential though. And AAF have done some awesome work on resiliency tech.

      • weka 3.3.1

        oh, and where they talk about living outside of the safety net… have they said how to look after disabled people? Are they doing this already? That will be the test imo.

        • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.1.1

          ….how to look after disabled people? We know a bit about this. Living with a significant disability outside of the legislation- protected ACC is much, much more bearable if one has ZERO (that is a very intentional big fat zero btw) expectation of any supports from government that might meet your needs.

          And yes. Peter and I are almost entirely independent of the MOH for funded supports now. (Inferior provision for ostomy and consumables …and of course the edict that the fucking- filth unPfizered do not deserve funded advanced personal cares, or to be paid for providing advanced personal cares).

          We've been here many times….resilience is what we do…is who we are. We lived in a 7metre Bus for 5 years because MOH:DSS were/are arseholes…with bach and some land, a few chooks, a few sheeps, lots of vege growing areas and some infant fruit trees…we're well on our way to being ok.

          (Admittedly the wheels might metaphorically fall off if I am incapacitated …but then I guess that's here our 'community' comes in.)

          • weka 3.3.1.1.1

            I'm completely dependent upon the government to pay rent, buy food, clothing, medicine and so on. And I'm on my own. My disability is quite different from Peter's, but the ability to be self sufficient in the way you are is beyond me.

            In a way you kind of affirmed my point. All of us should be supported already by the community. I can't see that improving as things get worse unless the resiliency movements act on it. Put their money where their beliefs are.

            • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.1.1.1.1

              Yes. Being dependent on government largesse makes one's existence extremely precarious, and I sympathize and empathize with your situation. Makes the necessity for anonymity when commenting understandable.

              Peter and I are very aware that many non ACC disabled people are too scared to speak out against MOH:DSS or WINZ for fear they will lose what meagre supports they have. They would sidle up to us as we held our 'Protests of Two' (against deaths in MOH:DSS funded care, disparities between MOH and ACC etc ) and apologise for not standing alongside. Some had already lost supports for speaking out. Even back then Peter had a fraction of fuck all in the way of funded care, and only got funding for a decent wheelchair because the local firm doing the assessments and applications made a concerted effort to get the funding over the line. Until that no longer worked. Anyway…for a while we were in a position to travel cheaply and front up to either protest or support various court actions. We literally had nothing to lose. Eyes would roll over on the Crown Law/ MOH table as we again took our place down the back of the courts. Result.

              But it was when we were ourselves part of a legal action taken by the OHRP against the MOH that we got up close and personal with the same people…and found them almost feral in their attitude towards us. We were significantly impaired disabled people and the unpaid family carers they were dependent on because (in many cases) MOH:DSS refused to fund the level of care these people needed. It mattered not that three previous cases had found in favour of those in our situation and that further cases had called into question the 2013 response to those previous cases. It mattered not that the MOH:DSS had been roundly chastised by Judges for failing to address this issue despite rulings having been made against them. It mattered not that Crown Law had been publicly chastised by an Appeal Court judge for failing to clarify the grounds for their appeal.

              They treated us like shit. And that was the Crown lawyers. We were used to this from various MOH:DSS bureaucrats…but from lawyers?

              And nothing has changed. Peter got his 'welcome to the new Ministry for Disabled' letter a couple of weeks ago, and he promptly screwed it up and biffed it. Rubbish. He broke his neck 52 years ago and reckons he has never felt so insecure with regards to support from the state as he has in the last 40 odd years. When ACC came in things for non ACC seemed to get worse. (the deserving disabled/eugenicist thing I suspect)

              Nothing will ever improve for non- ACC disabled in New Zealand until they have the same and equal right to funded supports afforded to ACC clients, and a state income that allows them to live with dignity.

              And it must be a RIGHT. Not and 'eligibility'. A fucking hard -core, written -into- the- constitution fully funded right.

              • RedLogix

                I read that with some very mixed feelings Rosemary. Admiration for your courage and head shaking sadness at the familiarity of it all. As I have mentioned a couple of times my younger brother has a lifetime disability that few would wish for and if it were not for his good fortune in having a family able and willing to support him – his life would have been a great deal less happy. But even this experience pales compared to your story.

                As for the MSD they are a pack of bastards who regard themselves as above the law. We had an encounter with them a few years back regarding the care of my father, and again unless I had been earning good money in Australia and had the excellent luck in stumbling upon a highly competent lawyer – we would have been screwed. (It still cost us well over $250k, and I was able to avoid by a matter of weeks plunging into a terminal debt spiral – but that is a success in this context.)

                Our lawyer explained in some detail to us how the High Court had already made two rulings against the MSD in regards to this situation – but had been simply ignored or obfuscated with no consequences from the Minister. There is a serious Constitutional problem here in that when the Courts rule against the Govt – there seems to be no effective mechanism beyond political accountability to enforce them. (Someone correct me here if I am wrong.)

                And it must be a RIGHT. Not and 'eligibility'. A fucking hard -core, written -into- the- constitution fully funded right.

                This.

                It is why I have long favoured a UBI as part of the solution. I accept it isn't a right as such, but once embedded as a core feature of the tax system it would be about as close as you get to one in this country.

              • weka

                I'm on SLP and it's one of the most stable aspects of my life. Can't see it changing unless we have a major GFC or a big swing to the right. I'm lucky, there are people in broadly the same situation who are on JS, and that's fucked up.

                MoH is a mystery. There are obviously good people working there, but also obviously those that are making extraordinarily bad decisions against disabled people. Weird mix. When people start in on about disbanding WINZ I wonder what they will make of MoH when they learn the reality. Lefties arguing for a UBI via IRD and disability can go to MoH need to sit down and read the many stories you have written.

                The stuff about statutory entitlement is central. I don't think many people realise that a benefit is an entitlement but health care isn't, nor is disability support.

                Completely agree about the need for disabled people to have the same rights as ACC funded people. I'm not holding my breath about the new Disability Ministry. Just fucking relieved it's not Sepuloni in charge.

                • RedLogix

                  Lefties arguing for a UBI via IRD and disability can go to MoH need to sit down and read the many stories you have written.

                  It was a suggestion I made years back. But seeing as how you raise it again I still see no particular reason why you think MSD or WINZ to be fundamentally better than MoH. Both have lots of stories people can tell about them, both can fuck people over just fine thanks.

                  What I see you is blocking any constructive discussion on a UBI because you prefer the devil you know than even explore alternative structures that might work better. Also the UBI was never just about disability – it was always part of a much larger tax reform – but you would never guess that from your position on it.

                  The relevance here is that having seen Melliodora in action, it is clear that whatever version of it that a household (or community) adopts, it needs extra labour to operate. And in this respect a UBI would be one simple method of ensuring the person doing that otherwise unpaid work, got to have some guaranteed income.

                  Effectively a UBI would greatly diminish the risk to people transitioning to this kind of lifestyle.

                  • weka

                    I've been arguing for a UBI with welfare bolted on. Many on the left are arguing for a UBI without welfare. This will impoverish many disabled people.

                    The reasons for not trusting the MoH are in the conversation already:

                    1. there are no entitlements to health care, there are to benefits
                    2. MoH has a particular culture all of its own that harms disabled people. WINZ is an easier fix, or can simply be replaced.
                    • weka

                      here's the stepping stone that doesn't throw disabled people under the bus. Almost like I wrote a post on opening the door to a well designed UBI.

                      .https://thestandard.org.nz/green-party-rocks-their-new-guaranteed-minimum-income-policy/

                    • RedLogix
                      1. there are no entitlements to health care, there are to benefits

                      If that is the root cause of the problem, then perhaps fixing that would be the best place to start.

                      As I understand it the original designers of ACC wanted to include disability and sickness, but were only able to get an accident scheme over the line at the time. In other words we got stuck halfway – maybe now we should get the job completed.

                    • weka

                      yes. This is precisely why I've written about the problems with the main UBI models. There are a range of things to resolve and we should be talking about all of them alongside any discussion of a UBI rather than leaving them until later.

                      The Greens proposed bring all disabled/unwell people under a reformed ACC,

                      • Reform ACC into an Agency for Comprehensive Care covering all health-related income support within a single system with guaranteed payments of at least 80% of the fulltime minimum wage.

                      https://www.greens.org.nz/green_party_proposes_transformational_poverty_action_plan

                      ACC have a problematic history and culture. I don't know if it's better to sort that out or just create a new agency from scratch.

      • roy cartland 3.3.2

        Tautoko.

        The governments are supposed to be us. If we elect crappy ones, they'll sell us out. If we don't bother the corps will try to take over.

        If we involve ourselves properly and fully, we can force them and corps to do as we've instructed.

        • weka 3.3.2.1

          are supposed to be us, but many seem happy to hand over that agency. This is what I admire about Holmgren and AAF. But they don't have a plan for people who can't do that, so 🤷‍♀️

          And even if government disappeared, we'd still have to govern ourselves and I'm not sure we'd do that much better.

      • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.3

        ….the anarchist and libertarians need to work with the socialist liberals ….

        Like "Left", "Right" and "Centre"…I don't think these labels mean what they used to mean anymore.

        ….particularly well organised… Are you referring to the political and philosophical anarchists here..?cheeky

        • weka 3.3.3.1

          lol, yes. AAF and Holmgren are extremely well organised people.

          ….the anarchist and libertarians need to work with the socialist liberals ….

          Like "Left", "Right" and "Centre"…I don't think these labels mean what they used to mean anymore.

          Sure, but they're still useful words if we use them with knowledge of how things are changing. One change is that US influenced libertarian concepts have more prominence than before. In NZ we see a strong rising culture of anti-government but largely without the kind of political anarchist grounding and analysis that Holmgren or AAF have.

          • Rosemary McDonald 3.3.3.1.1

            US influenced libertarian concepts

            I'm not sure that the US Libertarians are having that much of an influence with those of us that have been rejected by government so have reached the place where we are rejecting in response.

            Any similarity is mostly coincidental. We're not going to listen to a US Libertarian podcast or whatever unless we an already relate to what they're saying.

            Governments worldwide are losing some 'the people'.

    • weka 3.4

      a lot of what they're saying about insurance applies to people who keep paying. There are less guarantees going forward that insurance companies will pay out or cope with demand. Their points about thinking through scenarios beyond fear are very good.

  4. Ad 4

    We've had this kind of thing on offer for 20 years now. It's impact is marginal at best.

    In the current economy it's a matter of hang on and stop your family sliding backwards, getting infected, dying.

    I'd like not to be skeptical but I've been through enough of these types of movements.

    Good luck to all who give it a go.

    • Rosemary McDonald 4.1

      It's impact is marginal at best.

      Not to those living it day by day. It is an actual way of life. Not for all, or even most, but very valid and sustainable.

      And I'm not sure if those living like this expect to have much of an impact outside of their family or immediate circles. Happy to inform, educate and share knowledge and skills…but expecting to have an "impact"?

      • RedLogix 4.1.1

        At the risk of being irrelevant or off topic – I agree totally. For the individual it can make sense. But you remain embedded in a larger economic system that you are still dependent on.

        But just one small for instance – you have a nice spot of land suburban or rural even. You get it all organised and running nice – lots of organic kale. Then a flood comes along and takes out a critical bridge or pipe, or some infrastructure you depend on.

        The core materials in all infrastructure are steel, concrete, copper and aluminium. Without an industrial system that processes these materials cheaply and at massive scale – your infrastructure will not get fixed. And this story will be repeated slowly and surely over and over until power down becomes power off.

        • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1.1

          Then a flood comes along and takes out a critical bridge or pipe, or some infrastructure you depend on.

          Very good point. My answer to that would be that I pay my rates/taxes (as Meg speaks about in the video I posted) so the council/government can provide and maintain this infrastructure. I don't pay my rates/taxes for the council to impose onerous rules and regulations that serve no one. Other than some power crazed bureaucrat.

          Its a small step from tolerating and even supporting (through rate paying) the local council (or central government) and almost rejecting the same. A rule that inhibits very small scale enterprise (such as a stall at the gate) can be seen as tptb attempting to stifle self sustainability. Limit our ability to support ourselves. The dependent are so much easier to control.

          Industry and tech are important…look what we're doing right now…but they an be done much, much better.

          Organic kale…any kale…yuk.

          • RedLogix 4.1.1.1.1

            My answer to that would be that I pay my rates/taxes (as Meg speaks about in the video I posted) so the council/government can provide and maintain this infrastructure.

            Yes. But what happens when your local council or govt cannot obtain the resources to maintain this infrastructure – at any price?

        • weka 4.1.1.2
          1. people with Retrosuburbia communities and neighbourhoods will be better off when the bridge goes out because they can supply many of the basics of human life until things get fixed. Unlike people with only electric heating and no power. Or dependent on the supermarket 3x a week for food and now the supply lines are broken.

          2. Retrosuburbia doesn't say get rid of all industrial tech.

          3. if we don't power down and make society sustainable, there will come a time when we will lose the ability to do even basic industrial tech like steel making or power generation (see point 5). Powerdown doesn't mean getting rid of all industrial tech.

          4. in a world of moderate climate change (that we are already locked into) we can expect many more challenges to important infrastructure like bridges. How many times can the bridge be repaired? Where do the materials come from? How many of the materials are not renewable? How many of the hands on people are off sick with covid or flu? Global shortages of steel? Or food? GCF?

          These are predictable emergencies. NZ will at some point deal with climate events and a big quake. We might get lucky and not have any of the others happening at the same time. There are communities on the West Coast preparing for months of disconnection after the Big One. Because they understand very well the practicalities of managing in such situations. Tech goes a long way, but it's not invincible. Resilient design, by definition, means we create multiple ways of fulfilling basic human needs and we don't rely so heavily on the ones that cause catastrophe if/when they fail.

          5. in a world of runaway climate change industrial tech will simply not keep up, and many people, things and ecologies will be destroyed. This is what the powerdown is trying to prevent.

          • RedLogix 4.1.1.2.1

            people with Retrosuburbia communities and neighbourhoods will be better off when the bridge goes out because they can supply many of the basics of human life until things get fixed.

            How long do you think you can hold out – when the council says the price of fixing this is beyond this years budget? Or the materials are not available? Or the contractors machinery need parts we can no longer get? Or the engineers left town for someplace else where they could make a living? And so on.

            This is what happens when you kick the guts out of the highly productive industrial system everything depends on. You imagine that we can pick and choose which parts of it we get to keep and which we can let go as excessive or damaging – well it just doesn't work that way. Every part serves a purpose.

            Again – the core problem is not industrialisation. It is that we have gotten stuck on powering with fossil fuels for about five decades too long.

            • weka 4.1.1.2.1.1

              again, no-one is saying abandon industrial tech. No-one is kicking industrial systems in the guts. Climate change will though. And ecological collapse. A big enough quake. GFC. etc. It's precisely these things that powerdown, transition towns, permaculture etc are addressing.

              The idea you are arguing against is self sufficiency and that isn't what PD is. PD is community resiliency and sustainability in the context of the wider world. It's you that still thinks this somehow means people trying to go it alone.

              The TINA argument doesn't hold. I know a lot of people that grow most of their own food. In a hard crash NZ would be one of the better places in the world to transition fast to local food growing. Yes, yes, I understand the systems involved very well, including transport and distribution. I'm pointing out that this idea that we cannot change fundamentals in the whole system is wrong. And, again, climate, ecology etc are going to force our hand anyway. The choice we have is adapt now or collapse later.

              Again – the core problem is not industrialisation. It is that we have gotten stuck on powering with fossil fuels for about five decades too long.

              This however doesn't address all the problems: plastic pollution, top soil loss, rainforest clearing, wild fires, over grazing, nitrate pollution and so on. It's not industrialisation, it's the paradigm that cannot see what sustainability is.

              • RedLogix

                again, no-one is saying abandon industrial tech.

                Sorry you can say that all you like, but it is like saying 'I didn't think taping a plastic bag over their head would kill them'. Ignorance of the consequences of messing with a system you do not properly understand is not an excuse.

                It's not industrialisation, it's the paradigm that cannot see what sustainability is.

                Yet oddly enough ESG is the single most important topic we find ourselves engaging with at a senior level these days. In Australia alone there is a commitment to over $8 trillion dollars of expenditure in this space in the next decade.

                • weka

                  What is it about ‘runaway climate change will destroy civilisation’ that you don’t understand?

                  • arkie

                    Apropos of nothing:

                    The oil and gas industry has delivered $2.8bn (£2.3bn) a day in pure profit for the last 50 years, a new analysis has revealed.

                    The vast total captured by petrostates and fossil fuel companies since 1970 is $52tn, providing the power to “buy every politician, every system” and delay action on the climate crisis, says Prof Aviel Verbruggen, the author of the analysis. The huge profits were inflated by cartels of countries artificially restricting supply.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/21/revealed-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years

                  • RedLogix

                    I understand perfectly well. I was writing here about climate change before you even arrived on this site. I have never said – don't do TT, or renag, or whatever you think will help. I have been careful not to say that SWB is not useful in the correct geography and climate.

                    I am simply saying that in themselves they are not sufficient. You underestimate the task by a substantial margin – net zero is not enough, we have to go carbon negative for at least a century.

                    The only energy source that can allow us to sustain projected populations at anything close to a civilised level and provide the energy to massively pull that much carbon out of the atmosphere is nuclear energy in one form or another. And I don't care how much it costs.

                    Yet this is the one thing the Greens insist on blocking.

                    • weka

                      You underestimate the task by a substantial margin – net zero is not enough, we have to go carbon negative for at least a century.

                      Maybe you should stop being patronising and actually talk to me. I know net zero is not enough. Why don't you know that I know this? Because you're not listening.

                      The only energy source that can allow us to sustain projected populations at anything close to a civilised level and provide the energy to massively pull that much carbon out of the atmosphere is nuclear energy in one form or another. And I don't care how much it costs.

                      Sure, and zero about sustainability and resiliency. Holmgren has a whole model about this. You sit somewhere between Techno Stability and Techno Explosion. Both are betting everything on technology that doesn't exist yet.

                      I already pointed out that a FF tech replacement doesn't solve the problems caused by the paradigm that got us here and that you are still using.

                    • RedLogix

                      I already pointed out that a FF tech replacement doesn't solve the problems caused by the paradigm that got us here and that you are still using.

                      You may have missed the numerous comments I have been making for a while now on population decline and the implications this for our economic systems.

                      In crude terms we have tried over the past four centuries of industrialisation, liberal capitalism, socialism and fascism in a context when everything was growing. But as we enter a novel era of stable and declining populations, and constrained resources – I would suggest we have no idea what the optimal political economy might look like.

                      Both are betting everything on technology that doesn't exist yet.

                      Well it has been around since at least the 1950's so I am surprised you haven't noticed that either.

                      But otherwise yes I am closest to a Techno Stable.

      • weka 4.1.2

        And I'm not sure if those living like this expect to have much of an impact outside of their family or immediate circles. Happy to inform, educate and share knowledge and skills…but expecting to have an "impact"?

        I totally expect it to have an impact. There was a big upswing in interest in gardening when we had the first lockdown. Lots of people want this stuff but don't know how to do it. Or they get caught up in daily life and only look to it when things start to fail or get scary.

        When the shtf, retrosuburbia will be in hot demand. Trick is to get systems set up ahead of time.

      • Ad 4.1.3

        If Holmgren's life is your life, good for you.

        It's not for most and nor will it ever be.

        • weka 4.1.3.1

          Mine is nowhere close. Mine is the life you are describing, hanging on is most of what I am doing now. The difference is I know it can be different and I'm pointing to how. Not just for me. I see resilience building all around me and I'm grateful for that. Would be way better if more people did it.

        • RedLogix 4.1.3.2

          My partner and I did a weekend seminar with Holmgren in Dalesford – it's 30 min inland from Ballarat. Their life is not all that weird and is actually quite accessible if there is one adult in the household who can work it.

          A good intro to what it is like here.

          I agree not everyone can or even should copy and paste every detail of their lives – but he does have a lot of interesting things to teach.

          • weka 4.1.3.2.1

            It's the antithesis of cut and paste. Permaculture is a design process where every design arises out of the conditions of the situation/place/people.

  5. pat 6

    Expecting a majority movement shouting for less has no (repeat no) possibility of success….and the statement for your personal attention…build your own self reliance in your own self interest , and THEN others may replicate.

    If you want people to turn their lives upside down(and everything they have believed) then you must demonstrate that the alternative is not only possible but beneficial.

    • pat 6.1

      I will also note something that Holmgren didnt (in that debate)…if you gain traction and look like succeeding you will be fought to the death.

    • weka 6.2

      Expecting a majority movement shouting for less has no (repeat no) possibility of success….

      This whole thing he is talking about is very good. It's at odds with traditional left politics, but it is the thing we must grapple with. My own position is that we need both. The shouty ones put a brake on the worst excesses of neoliberalism, and this makes it more possible for the positive pathways to be worked on.

      and the statement for your personal attention…build your own self reliance in your own self interest , and THEN others may replicate.

      If you want people to turn their lives upside down(and everything they have believed) then you must demonstrate that the alternative is not only possible but beneficial.

      of course. Why do you think I write so many post about people and systems that show how it is being done?

      • pat 6.2.1

        Writing posts on political blogs read by political tragics demonstrates nothing….Im (and I suspect Holmgren) meansing real world demonstration…its as I noted a few days ago. the transition movement in NZ has very little to show for years of work…where is the transition community living a good life in a sustainable manner(without relying on the foissil economy)?…it dosnt exist.

        • weka 6.2.1.1

          The posts I put up regularly show real life examples. Maybe you're just not reading them. I don't know, but you can't have it both ways. If you want examples there are plenty out there. More than there ever has been.

          Transition Towns in NZ didn't survive in the form of TT. For a range of reasons, not least is that many overseas models aren't such a good fit here. Same with XR. But that doesn't mean people aren't still doing all that mahi. Every rohe in NZ has people doing this work. If Holmgren is right, those are the people that will save the day.

          without relying on the foissil economy

          this argument is like the right wingers who have a go at the Green Party because the MPs still fly on planes sometimes. It demonstrates a profound lack of understanding on their part of the problem we face (the complex nature of the fossil fuel dependent systems), and what the solutions are (system change, use the system while we transition). You're not dim, and you have a grasp of the issues, so I'm at a loss why you would chose such a block to put in the way.

        • pat 6.2.1.2

          I place no block…I pose the question…like Holmgren, Im a realist
          Consider…we have a cost of living and housing crisis in NZ…and have had (for many) for years…why is there no pooling of resources and sweat equity to develop a few hundred acres and a couple of hundred people living 'the good life'?…surely there has never been a greater incentive?

          • Francesca 6.2.1.2.1

            I see exactly that happening in my home town .Born out of necessity rather than ideology

            Housing initiatives, including shared food producing gardens and communal spaces ,co operative food producing projects on shared land , transport sharing through local social media pages.

            All kinds of formalised and informal solutions under the radar.

            As more and more people are locked out of home ownership, more are recruited to the home grown solutions

            • Robert Guyton 6.2.1.2.1.1

              It's a decentralised movement, without a nominated leader but with exemplars at all levels.

            • pat 6.2.1.2.1.2

              That is good (or perhaps not), but note a key phrase….."Born out of necessity rather than ideology"….it is not a choice.

              As has been noted many times we will be forced to adapt even if we dont wish to…..that dosnt solve the fundamental problem nor does it provide the opportunity to prepare/test while capacity exists.

              It remains a subset within an unsustainable system

              • weka

                Necessity is the mother of invention, can't see why it would be a negative in this case. People choosing to share land now aren't being forced to by climate change. That will happen if the financial system collapses and we get mass migration here, or we lose a shit load of housing in a big quake. We're not there yet, and the whole point is that we can choose now, not wait until we have not choice.

                Covid, cost of living, rising fuel costs, these are all pressures and they're all opportunities. The missing bit is state and mainstream support via R and D, funding, advisors and so on. But as I linked below the banks are starting to come around, things are changing.

          • weka 6.2.1.2.2

            why is there no pooling of resources and sweat equity to develop a few hundred acres and a couple of hundred people living 'the good life'?…surely there has never been a greater incentive?

            As Francesca points out people are in fact doing many things.

            The main reason it's not being done more is because of the structural blocks:

            • hard to get a bank loan for shared land
            • council regs often limit how many people can live on a block of land, or how many dwellings there can be
            • rural land is phenomenally expensive, even for people with a house half paid off, getting onto rural land is another step up.
            • sharing land where one puts in large amounts of money up front poses problems around how to get the money out if one needs to. There are a few models for resolving this, but not a lot and again societal structures make this harder.

            The good news is that banks are now starting to look at lending to people buying together. Afaik this is relatively new (I only realised it was happening this year).

            https://www.kiwibank.co.nz/personal-banking/home-loans/getting-a-home-loan/co-own/

            • pat 6.2.1.2.2.1

              You are demonstrating why it cant be done, not how it can be done.

              • weka

                I'm responding to the question you asked,

                why is there no pooling of resources and sweat equity to develop a few hundred acres and a couple of hundred people living 'the good life'?

                The reasons I gave are substantial, material, and can be changed without too much trouble once people are on board.

                If you want examples of how it can be done, we can have that conversation, but honestly I'm not sure how much more time I want to put into it given you seem intent on holding on to your view that it can't be done.

                Franscesca's comment demonstrates that the ordinary people you think won't do it are in fact doing it, and that this has spread beyond the people who do it from ideology or passion. This is exactly what needs to happen, but up thread you are still naysaying.

            • Francesca 6.2.1.2.2.2

              Exactly Weka

              I think I mentioned a lot of what is actually happening is under the radar.Generally our local body turns a blind eye until someone makes a complaint.This very rarely happens

              Having said that , there are 3 different affordable housing projects on the go that have council support.Two of them have alternative approaches to land ownership.One of them is underpinned by long term lease, or simply land donation to a housing trust. There has been no shortage of landowners willing to do this., in recognition that for the area to survive , we need a broad demographic.

              Remember the notion of peak oil?Which didn't quite eventuate.A response to that was a survey on local food growing capacity.As result , shared food growing projects are still happily in existence.

              This is rural, urban solutions will be different

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    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    5 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    5 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • There’s a name for this
    Every year, in the Budget, Parliament forks out money to government agencies to do certain things. And every year, as part of the annual review cycle, those agencies are meant to report on whether they have done the things Parliament gave them that money for. Agencies which consistently fail to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Echoes of 1968 in 2024?  Pocock on the repetitive problems of the New Left
    Mike Grimshaw writes – Recent events in American universities point to an underlying crisis of coherent thinking, an issue that increasingly affects the progressive left across the Western world. This of course is nothing new as anyone who can either remember or has read of the late ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Two bar blues
    The thing about life’s little victories is that they can be followed by a defeat.Reader Darryl told me on Monday night:Test again Dave. My “head cold” last week became COVID within 24 hours, and is still with me. I hear the new variants take a bit longer to show up ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 13
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Angus Deaton on rethinking his economics IMFLocal scoop: The people behind Tamarind, the firm that left a $500m cleanup bill for taxpayers at Taranaki’s Tui oil well, are back operating in Taranaki under a different company name. Jonathan ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • AT Need To Lift Their Game
    Normally when we talk about accessing public transport it’s about improving how easy it is to get to, such as how easy is it to cross roads in a station/stop’s walking catchment, is it possible to cycle to safely, do bus connections work, or even if are there new routes/connections ...
    6 days ago
  • Christopher's Whopper.
    Politicians are not renowned for telling the truth. Some tell us things that are verifiably not true. They offer statements that omit critical pieces of information. Gloss over risks, preferring to offer the best case scenario.Some not truths are quite small, others amusing in their transparency. There are those repeated ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level.   “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Ruapehu Alpine Lifts bailout the last, say Ministers
    Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
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    6 days ago
  • Govt takes action to drive better cancer services
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Work begins on SH29 upgrades near Tauriko
    Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fresh produce price drop welcome
    Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024.  “Lower fruit and vege ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Statement to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
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    6 days ago
  • Speech to the 68th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women (CSW68)
    Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all.  Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs rural led catchment projects
    The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber
    Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction.   Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Commission’s advice on ETS settings tabled
    Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government lowering building costs
    The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Trustee tax change welcomed
    Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister’s Ramadan message
    Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness.  It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister appoints new NZTA Chair
    Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to Life Sciences Summit
    Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology.  It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Progress continues apace on water storage
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government agrees to restore interest deductions
    Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Minister to attend World Anti-Doping Agency Symposium
    Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • Pacific Language Weeks celebrate regional unity
    This year’s Pacific Language Weeks celebrate regional unity and the contribution of Pacific communities to New Zealand culture, says Minister for Pacific Peoples Dr Shane Reti.  Dr Reti announced dates for the 2024 Pacific Language Weeks during a visit to the Pasifika festival in Auckland today and says there’s so ...
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