yep. I guess the local tories are still het up about saying only 3 people attended the asset sales marches and that poll trends mean nothing other than a labour leadership coup.
Today the space-trippers who make up Climate (cough cough) Science Coalition opened their case against NIWA, accusing them of scientific fraud and covering up allegedly skewed temperature records.
As someone who contributed to the gathering and dissemination of temperature data in the 70s and 80s, let me assure readers the claims from this Climate Science Coalition – or whatever these ideological right-wing nutters call themselves – is piffle.
Remember who their parliamentary representative used to be? John Boscawen. I heard him in The House make some idiotic statements that must have left the real climate scientists reeling in disbelief. The weather instruments at Albert Park for instance were in an enclosure separated by a scientifically acceptable distance (as laid down by the WMO) from both current and future growing flora.
I look forward to NIWA and their lawyers turning them into a nation-wide laughing stock.
I suspect that rather than deliver to the CSC a well deserved bollocking, the courts will just dismiss the action and state that the peer reviewed literature is correct forum for scientific debate.
Courts of law are ill equipped to adjudicate on science and have previously shown themselves as scientifically illiterate on too many occasions to count.
I expect you’re right RC but even so… it could and should give the Greens and Labour a chance to give this bunch of venal nut-cases a well deserved bollocking in the debating chamber.
And weka (below) is so right. What a waste of increasingly meagre NIWA resources.
Well, there’s one solution to that – the judge in his finding fines the CSC triple full costs and awards them to NIWA. These fines to be personally met by the CSC backers who names will also be made public.
fartrain we are an agricultural based economy we need every bit of help we can get.
just more short sighted crap from nactional.
look at biosecurity more cuts more mistakes.
As president of the International Commission on Atmospheric Chemistry and Global Pollution, ICACGP, which reports to the International Association of Meteorology and Atmospheric Sciences, IAMAS, I write you concerning your article entitled “NIWA station comments ‘misinformed'”.
I and my colleagues have been collaborating successfully with the NIWA scientists for over 25 years. The measurements of atmospheric measurements made at Lauder and related sites, by NIWA, provide unique and very significant contributions both to fundamental research in Earth Science and provide a key part of the evidence base, required for the monitoring, evolution and development of international environmental policy
I therefore disagree strongly with the opinions of a spokesperson for Science and Innovation Minister Steven Joyce quoted in the Otago Daily Times. The spokesperson denies the substantive issue and focusing on the appropriateness or the international scientific community commenting on a decision made by NIWA management.
Whilst respecting that the Management of NIWA have difficult choices to make to establish the priorities for their evolving research programme, it would be irresponsible and reprehensible of myself and ICACGP not to point out that their current plans lead to a loss of a unique capability in the Southern Hemisphere of strategic global long term significance, which has been and is a credit to New Zeeland.
Professor John P. Burrows M.A. Ph.D.
Director and Professor of Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Environmental Physics, University of Bremen, Bremen Germany and Fellow of the UK National Environmental Research Council Centre of Ecology and Hydrology, Oxfordshire U.K.
My name ist Justus Notholt, and I am professor at the University of Bremen in Germany. I have co-operated a long time with NIWA Lauder.
The suggested cut at Lauder is a disaster for global climate research. Lauder is one of the very few sites in the southern hemisphere where climate change is measured. Climate change requires observations for centuries, and Lauder has a long and very good record.
I do not understand why in the northern hemisphere the importance of investigating climate change is increasing and at the same time the atmospheric observations at Lauder are closed.
The arguments about the financial investments by NIWA and mentioning the total number of employments of 66 persons are misleading. What is planned is simply closing the atmospheric observations at NIWA Lauder, and for me that’s a big mistake.
The concerns expressed about the Lauder station by scientists around the world can be explained by the very high quality of Lauder data making it the unique station of this sort in the Southern Hemisphere.
Such high quality can be achieved only if measurements are checked by measurement scientists. Technicians can ensure the good functioning of the instruments but they are not trained for checking the validity of the data.
If NIWA wants to keep Lauder as a measurement station recognised worldwide, it is crucial to maintain a competent scientific staff. This necessity is a pre-requisite for international measurement networks. Only carefully checked measurements time series are useful for the study of the evolution of climate parameters.
Sophie Godin-Beekmann (CNRS, France)
Comments from other scientists and interested parties is at
The scientists and international agencies involved in atmosphere research have pointed out Lauder’s strategic location, its global value, and aired concerns that job cuts at the station could jeopardise the quality of the data collected.
An email sent to the ministers last week, signed by 200 international scientists, voiced “extreme concern” about proposed changes at the facility.
As I said on the last Climate Change thread, If you frame your arguement solely around pollution then I completely agree. We should be doing more to reduce reduce pollution in our waterways, we should be doing more to reduce CO (that’s carbon monoxide, not dioxide) Sulphur and other pollutants in our air, we should be looking at ways of reducing consuption of plastics, and other substances that take millenia to break down, we should be recycling more heavy metals from cell phones, computers, batteries etc and fining those who just dump them. We should be doing a lot to protect our environment for future generations, and we have made a start, but trying to change peoples mindsets on science which cannot be proven (there is a lot of comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement, so the public will never buy into it fully) is not the right way to go about it. Push the direct environmental inpacts, heavy metal poisoning, respiratory issues, pictures of rubbish accumulating in the natural environment etc and make changes based on these reasons.
If the side effect of this is the reduction of CO2, and greenhouse effect/global warming/climate change or what ever they decide to call it next is achieved, then we win on both sides. But as you can see, there is always going to be scepticism of science when they change the theory and say its proven, then change it again, it’s alot easier to prove our air quality is causing health issues, water quality causing loss of aquatic life and reduction of natural habitat is causing the decline of animal species. Work from this basis and the masses will follow, work from the climate change platform, and people (including myself) will constantly push back until proven.
By the way, Scientists can’t even ‘Prove’ what causes Gravity, there are theories (just like there are Climate Change theories), so saying Climate Change is proven is just rediculous. Not one single climate model that has managed to predict the last 14 years of slowed warming!!!
While I’m at it, can someone please explain to me how the ETS helps? I can see how it helps collect revenue, just not what they are using this revenue for.
I especially love this comment ‘These data should frighten you. All of civilization developed during the last interglacial, and the data show that such interglacials are very brief. Our time looks about up. Data such as these are what led us to state, in the Preface, that the next ice age is about to hit us, any millennium now. It does not take a detailed theory to make this prediction. We don’t necessarily know why the next ice age is imminent (at least on a geological time scale), but the pattern is unmistakable.’
I’ve every scientific institution on the planet on my side of the argument, you’ve got, let’s see, Ian Wishart, Anthony Watts and Chris Monckton NMHL (Never a Member of House of Lords) and a few internet blogs.
Here you go Murray, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation the current theory is that a body of mass causes a ‘bend’ in the spacetime continuium as mooted by the theory of General Relativity. Although the theory of General Relativity itself does not tie in with Quantum Mechanics without the unproven String Theory, therefore gravity cannot be proven. So as Richard Christie would say, do some homework.
Do you get your knowledge of climate science from wikipedia as well?
If you think gravity can’t be proven, you should have no objection to jumping off the Sky Tower. However, I’ll be charitable and accept that you may have meant that scientists do not have a single theory that combines all the forces of nature in a single mathematical framework. Is that what you meant to say? If you’re going to comment on science, you need to be a little more precise. And as for homework, I’ve done heaps of it, but thanks for your concern.
My apologies on 2 fronts Murray, firstly the link to Wikipedia was the simplist link to provide without knowing your level of scientific knowledge, secondly, I should have been more specific with my reference to Gravity. I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
should really disqualify you from further comment.
“…without any ability to back it up (apart from”
(wait for it)
“…apart from IPCC reports…”
(now the knockout)
“…which only compile the latest scientific findings…”
?only?
What would be a better source of evidence for scientific consensus Bob?
In the context of what I have been writing on this thread, I am using ‘Theory’ as an idea, something that may explain what is happening, ‘Evidence’ being what has been measured and gathered (based on current knowledge) which unfortunately, in the climate debate is being used to fit the theory, rather than the other way around, and ‘Proof’ can only ever be used loosley in science. To gain recognition of proof in science you have to have evidence to support your theory to a probability of 5 Sigma (1 in 3,500,000 chance of you being wrong).
The Climate Change ‘Theory’ uses data gathered from a huge range of sources (temperature records, Ice core samples, satellite data, tree rings, our knowledge of Milankovich cycles, Sun spot records etc) which is used as ‘Evidence’ and tries to bring them all together to say that Humans are now causing the Earth to warm faster than previous models expected.
There are many issues I have with this, there has never been a climate change model that has predicted a trend for any 5 year period (apart from retrospectively amending them for unforseen occurances like La Nina, if the science was sorted they would have already predicted the La Nina events!), temperature records are only a couple of hundred years old (a blink of an eye in long term climate), Ice core samples show CO2 following increases in warming which is explained away by then having a positive feedback causing more warming (which model explains when we hit the magical point where this turns back to glaciation? This must happen otherwise the positive feedback would surely warm the planet exponentially?), satellite data I have no problem with, other than the small amount of data in terms of historical reference, Tree rings are an in-exact yet useful tool, and Milankovich cycles are themselves disputed in scientific circles.
I hope this helps (while opening me up to expected criticism, which I thoroughly welcome)
Thank you for your enlightening input into the discussion CV, you really are a bundle of knowledge. Good to see that once again, when faced with an absence of anything worthwhile to add the discussion you aren’t disheartened and comment worthlessly anyway.
“All noise no signal” is a concise and complete summation of your contribution to this thread. It is also a phrase that is well known to me at least, since it comes up frequently in discussions of matters scientific. An apt response in other words.
Draco also sums it up nicely.
You don’t appear to know what a theory is. You don’t appear to know what the scientific method is, nor indeed how it has been applied over the last one-hundred plus years in climate science.
The only thing left for me to do is to quote Wolfgang Pauli: Das is nicht einmal falsch.
Kotahi and Mike, Whoops, here is NASA telling us there is no meaningful comparison of models to observed global temperature change:
“The analysis by Hansen et al. (2005), as well as other
recent studies (see, e.g., the reviews by Ramaswamy
et al. 2001; Kopp et al. 2005b; Lean et al. 2005; Loeb
and Manalo-Smith 2005; Lohmann and Feichter
2005; Pilewskie et al. 2005; Bates et al. 2006; Penner
et al. 2006), indicates that the current uncertainties
in the TSI and aerosol forcings are so large that they
preclude meaningful climate model evaluation by
comparison with observed global temperature change.
These uncertainties must be reduced significantly for
uncertainty in climate sensitivity to be adequately con-
strained (Schwartz 2004). Helping to address this chal-
lenging objective is the main purpose of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glory
mission, a remote sensing Earth-orbiting observatory”
A new U.S. space agency study warns the Earth this century could see rapid and catastrophic climate changes if man-made global warming levels are allowed to reach an internationally-recognized so-called “safe limit” of two degrees Celsius…
The scientists say looking at how the prehistoric climate responded to natural changes gives them more insight into determining a dangerous level of man-made global warming for today’s world.
Even NASA’s own website says:
The evidence for rapid climate change is compelling:
Anyways, the American Meteorological Society (where Bob’s link goes to) state that:
In 2007, the AMS issued the information statement “Climate Change: An Information Statement of the American Meteorological Society”:
“…there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems, and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond… Important goals for future work include the need to understand the relation of climate at the state and regional level to the patterns of global climate and to reverse the decline in observational networks that are so critical to accurate climate monitoring and prediction.”
That statement holds until Sept 2012. More on their position here, Bob. I reckon the members don’t have a problem with climate change models, in general.
Good stuff Bob, well written.
Unfortunately STANDARD science is that if anything doesn’t fit their model of mutually encouraged and supported mumbo jumbo (all caused by John Key directly) it is obviously wrong, and you are obviously less intelligent/perceptive/honest/caring/green than them here.
But don’t give up, we all have a duty to show these people up, with their hypocrisy and propaganda- inspired delusions. Unfortunately (or fortunately) not many people read this blog, so the moral & intellectual paucity of the left is not as exposed as it needs to be.
I am hoping more people will study Sociology 101, that and a bit of intellectual maturity makes it very easy to see the “arguments” here for what they are.
Keep up the good work.
So go on then. We’re waiting for you to make some sort of point. You must have some sort of supporting argument for your position beyond the above. What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort…
No Kotahi, it is not up to the dissenters to make a point regarding Climate Change, we aren’t the ones wanting to add a tax that in effect does nothing to solve a problem we haven’t yet conclusively proved!
Show me one model that predicts glaciation (I haven’t yet found one) as a result of AGW. At no time in the planets history has the temperature moved 1 degree higher than current without this occurring, so why would now be any different? If the science was settled (as everyone here seems to believe) this should stick out like a sore thumb!
Mark, thank you for your kind words, and I agree with you completely. This is actually part of the reason the more and more people on the street are at odds with the Climate Change theories, because as soon as you question the ‘believers’ like those on this site you just get comments like ‘Arghhhh’, ‘All noise no signal’, ‘You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong’ and ‘What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort (great quote by the way, just not in the context of this discussion)’ without any attempt at answering the questions put forward.
After all the comments back to me, still not one person willing to put there hand up and explain to me how the ETS helps, let alone trying to explain why the ‘settled science’ can’t predict La Nina events and their severity, or where the tipping point is to the start of the next Ice Age.
If A is longer than B, and B is longer than C … then A is longer than C.
This statement is absolutely true. It can be proven to be true always, there can be no exceptions. (In strict mathematical terms we would also tie down the precise meaning of the word ‘longer’, but for the purpose of this simple discussion I’m assuming the plain obvious meaning.)
This sort of absolute truth is the domain of logic, mathematics and parts of philosophy. Many of these truths get titled “Theorems’. For instance Pythagoras got a very famous one about right angled triangles named after him.
In physical sciences by contrast there are no absolute truths. There are no ‘proofs’ in the same sense. What we have instead is ideas or ‘hypothesis’ (I’ll avoid using the word ‘theory’ because it’s easily confused with ‘theorem’) and a body of evidence.
For some sciences, for instance gravity, we have an enormous body of evidence that backs an hypothesis which we regard as for all practical purposes as true. Note carefully; we cannot ‘prove’ gravity. We cannot even ‘prove’ the Higgs boson that we hypothesise will be the cause of gravity. But this does not matter. Asking for ‘proof’ of gravity is like asking for ‘proof’ of Mozart. It simply does not apply.
What does matter in science is this: We put up a hypothesis, which is another word for an “idea”. In the case of AGW we have a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable ideas, some of which have been around for almost a century and sustained much scrutiny. Based on these ideas we have constructed a model of planetary climate which strongly suggests that more than 350 ppm of CO2 for any extended period is a bad idea… at least in terms of 9 billion odd humans on the planet as well.
We then look for evidence to either support the hypothesis or support the ‘null hypothesis’. Constructing these tests for statistical significance takes a substantial degree of skill in the science, statistics, and the hard logical thinking. Tamino at Open Mind is the most accessible of these people. If you, as I have done, spend a month or so reading his superbly professional material you will be well rewarded. The real power of his work is that he pays attention to the real meanings in the information. For instance:
It’s “only” 3-sigma. As I said earlier, the “5-sigma” requirement isn’t right. And let me ask you in all seriousness: if I told you that a train was speeding toward your own children but I could only prove it to 3-sigma, would you say, “I’ll wait until you get 5-sigma before telling them to get off the railroad tracks”?
As a result of decades of gathering vast amounts of data, detailed research and study our present understanding is that the AGW hypothesis is far more probably true than any other alternate hypothesis. That is as good a result as you ever get in science, and for all practical purposes it’s all we need.
It is not of course ‘absolute’ proof. When you demand this, you are asking for something that is irrelevant.
A good explanation of how science actually works, RedLogix. Many scientists also work with the idea of falsifiability – that any theory or hypothesis, to be scientific, must be falsifiable. In the case of AGW, I suppose this would require coming up with reasonable scientific explanations for all the data that have been gathered, which make different predictions to the accepted ones. I myself would expect that these reasonable explanations would come from someone with a degree of expertise in the field, not a radio shock jock, a mining geologist who thinks the sun is a ball of hot iron, or someone who has claimed to develop cures for almost all diseases known to mankind. When a scientist makes a contentious claim, the first thing I do is look at their list of peer reviewed publications. Although not conclusive as to their veracity, this does give a useful starting point. Note that I have no peer reviewed publications on climate change, but a reasonable number in other areas. I also have an Outstanding Referee Award from the American Physical Society, so I dare say that I understand the peer review process better than most.
The ETS is designed to use market signals to reduce carbon emissions, exactly the same way as “cap and trade” was used to improve air quality in the USA. It is a mechanism beloved by adherents of “The Chicago School” – so your ignorance is a little bit surprising.
“can’t predict La Nina events ” – climate models do not predict weather events. I hope you understand the difference between climate and weather. La Ninas are short term events (measured in years) that have no effect on the long-term trend (measured in decades).
So there you go, more bullshit claims from Bob – you see, if you want explanations you have to ask for them.
For more on models and their success in predicting climate trends, I can recommend Barton Paul Levensons excellent summary.
Cap and Trade won’t work, I would have figured a hard core leftie such as yourself would realise this! Here you go, here is a fellow leftie explaining why (and actually making sense) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM
Bob: “…more and more people on the street are at odds…”
Really? Are they? You’ve been so full of shite about every single other thing I bet you haven’t even got that right. Recent polls from the USA indicate that once again, you’ve failed the reality check.
Tell me, are you as completely incompetent in your life as you are in this discussion?
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The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
Identifying the engine type in your car is crucial for various reasons, including maintenance, repairs, and performance upgrades. Knowing the specific engine model allows you to access detailed technical information, locate compatible parts, and make informed decisions about modifications. This comprehensive guide will provide you with a step-by-step approach to ...
Introduction: The allure of racing is undeniable. The thrill of speed, the roar of engines, and the exhilaration of competition all contribute to the allure of this adrenaline-driven sport. For those who yearn to experience the pinnacle of racing, becoming a race car driver is the ultimate dream. However, the ...
Introduction Automobiles have become ubiquitous in modern society, serving as a primary mode of transportation and a symbol of economic growth and personal mobility. With countless vehicles traversing roads and highways worldwide, it begs the question: how many cars are there in the world? Determining the precise number is a ...
Maintaining a safe and reliable vehicle requires regular inspections. Whether it’s a routine maintenance checkup or a safety inspection, knowing how long the process will take can help you plan your day accordingly. This article delves into the factors that influence the duration of a car inspection and provides an ...
Mazda Motor Corporation, commonly known as Mazda, is a Japanese multinational automaker headquartered in Fuchu, Aki District, Hiroshima Prefecture, Japan. The company was founded in 1920 as the Toyo Cork Kogyo Co., Ltd., and began producing vehicles in 1931. Mazda is primarily known for its production of passenger cars, but ...
Your car battery is an essential component that provides power to start your engine, operate your electrical systems, and store energy. Over time, batteries can weaken and lose their ability to hold a charge, which can lead to starting problems, power failures, and other issues. Replacing your battery before it ...
In most states, you cannot register a car without a valid driver’s license. However, there are a few exceptions to this rule. Exceptions to the RuleIf you are under 18 years old: In some states, you can register a car in your name even if you do not ...
Mazda, a Japanese automotive manufacturer with a rich history of innovation and engineering excellence, has emerged as a formidable player in the global car market. Known for its reputation of producing high-quality, fuel-efficient, and driver-oriented vehicles, Mazda has consistently garnered praise from industry experts and consumers alike. In this article, ...
Struts are an essential part of a car’s suspension system. They are responsible for supporting the weight of the car and damping the oscillations of the springs. Struts are typically made of steel or aluminum and are filled with hydraulic fluid. How Do Struts Work? Struts work by transferring the ...
Car registration is a mandatory process that all vehicle owners must complete annually. This process involves registering your car with the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and paying an associated fee. The registration process ensures that your vehicle is properly licensed and insured, and helps law enforcement and other authorities ...
Zoom is a video conferencing service that allows you to share your screen, webcam, and audio with other participants. In addition to sharing your own audio, you can also share the audio from your computer with other participants. This can be useful for playing music, sharing presentations with audio, or ...
Building your own computer can be a rewarding and cost-effective way to get a high-performance machine tailored to your specific needs. However, it also requires careful planning and execution, and one of the most important factors to consider is the time it will take. The exact time it takes to ...
Sleep mode is a power-saving state that allows your computer to quickly resume operation without having to boot up from scratch. This can be useful if you need to step away from your computer for a short period of time but don’t want to shut it down completely. There are ...
Introduction Computer-Assisted Translation (CAT) has revolutionized the field of translation by harnessing the power of technology to assist human translators in their work. This innovative approach combines specialized software with human expertise to improve the efficiency, accuracy, and consistency of translations. In this comprehensive article, we will delve into the ...
In today’s digital age, mobile devices have become an indispensable part of our daily lives. Among the vast array of portable computing options available, iPads and tablet computers stand out as two prominent contenders. While both offer similar functionalities, there are subtle yet significant differences between these two devices. This ...
A computer is an electronic device that can be programmed to carry out a set of instructions. The basic components of a computer are the processor, memory, storage, input devices, and output devices. The Processor The processor, also known as the central processing unit (CPU), is the brain of the ...
Voice Memos is a convenient app on your iPhone that allows you to quickly record and store audio snippets. These recordings can be useful for a variety of purposes, such as taking notes, capturing ideas, or recording interviews. While you can listen to your voice memos on your iPhone, you ...
Laptop screens are essential for interacting with our devices and accessing information. However, when lines appear on the screen, it can be frustrating and disrupt productivity. Understanding the underlying causes of these lines is crucial for finding effective solutions. Types of Screen Lines Horizontal lines: Also known as scan ...
Right-clicking is a common and essential computer operation that allows users to access additional options and settings. While most desktop computers have dedicated right-click buttons on their mice, laptops often do not have these buttons due to space limitations. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on how to right-click ...
Powering up and shutting down your ASUS laptop is an essential task for any laptop user. Locating the power button can sometimes be a hassle, especially if you’re new to ASUS laptops. This article will provide a comprehensive guide on where to find the power button on different ASUS laptop ...
Dell laptops are renowned for their reliability, performance, and versatility. Whether you’re a student, a professional, or just someone who needs a reliable computing device, a Dell laptop can meet your needs. However, if you’re new to Dell laptops, you may be wondering how to get started. In this comprehensive ...
Two-thirds of the country think that “New Zealand’s economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful”. They also believe that “New Zealand needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful”. These are just two of a handful of stunning new survey results released ...
In today’s digital world, screenshots have become an indispensable tool for communication and documentation. Whether you need to capture an important email, preserve a website page, or share an error message, screenshots allow you to quickly and easily preserve digital information. If you’re an Asus laptop user, there are several ...
A factory reset restores your Gateway laptop to its original factory settings, erasing all data, apps, and personalizations. This can be necessary to resolve software issues, remove viruses, or prepare your laptop for sale or transfer. Here’s a step-by-step guide on how to factory reset your Gateway laptop: Method 1: ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
I was initially resistant to the idea often suggested to me that the Government should deliver an arts strategy. The whole point of the arts and creativity is that people should do whatever the hell they want, unbound by the dictates of politicians in Wellington. Peter Jackson, Kiri Te Kanawa, Eleanor ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
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You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
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Two hours without a comment. Nothing to worry about then? Seemed pretty logical to me though.
yep. I guess the local tories are still het up about saying only 3 people attended the asset sales marches and that poll trends mean nothing other than a labour leadership coup.
Or possibly what this guy is saying is so obvious to anyone with half a brain that only Pete George could disagree.
And Pete’s too busy “trying” to save Peter Dunne from overdue political extinction due to the consequences of his own actions :3
Recall the product, sort of has my vote, but rather we didn’t create the ‘produce’ in the first place, recalling can be so bloody, but inevitable.
Today the space-trippers who make up Climate (cough cough) Science Coalition opened their case against NIWA, accusing them of scientific fraud and covering up allegedly skewed temperature records.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1207/S00177/climate-science-flatearthers-in-support-of-climate-realists.htm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10819971
LOL @flatearthers!
As someone who contributed to the gathering and dissemination of temperature data in the 70s and 80s, let me assure readers the claims from this Climate Science Coalition – or whatever these ideological right-wing nutters call themselves – is piffle.
Remember who their parliamentary representative used to be? John Boscawen. I heard him in The House make some idiotic statements that must have left the real climate scientists reeling in disbelief. The weather instruments at Albert Park for instance were in an enclosure separated by a scientifically acceptable distance (as laid down by the WMO) from both current and future growing flora.
I look forward to NIWA and their lawyers turning them into a nation-wide laughing stock.
I suspect that rather than deliver to the CSC a well deserved bollocking, the courts will just dismiss the action and state that the peer reviewed literature is correct forum for scientific debate.
Courts of law are ill equipped to adjudicate on science and have previously shown themselves as scientifically illiterate on too many occasions to count.
I expect you’re right RC but even so… it could and should give the Greens and Labour a chance to give this bunch of venal nut-cases a well deserved bollocking in the debating chamber.
And weka (below) is so right. What a waste of increasingly meagre NIWA resources.
What a waste of NIWA resources though, and in the same week when staff cuts were announced.
Well, there’s one solution to that – the judge in his finding fines the CSC triple full costs and awards them to NIWA. These fines to be personally met by the CSC backers who names will also be made public.
Action has been brought by a Trust I believe, fronting for CSC.
Can the trustees be made liable? .
weka
Was it not three people only in Lauder, which had been automated ?
fartrain we are an agricultural based economy we need every bit of help we can get.
just more short sighted crap from nactional.
look at biosecurity more cuts more mistakes.
Fortran
Comments from other scientists and interested parties is at
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/216901/niwa-station-comments-misinformed
From yesterday
Details at
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/217215/worldwide-support-niwa-role
As I said on the last Climate Change thread, If you frame your arguement solely around pollution then I completely agree. We should be doing more to reduce reduce pollution in our waterways, we should be doing more to reduce CO (that’s carbon monoxide, not dioxide) Sulphur and other pollutants in our air, we should be looking at ways of reducing consuption of plastics, and other substances that take millenia to break down, we should be recycling more heavy metals from cell phones, computers, batteries etc and fining those who just dump them. We should be doing a lot to protect our environment for future generations, and we have made a start, but trying to change peoples mindsets on science which cannot be proven (there is a lot of comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement, so the public will never buy into it fully) is not the right way to go about it. Push the direct environmental inpacts, heavy metal poisoning, respiratory issues, pictures of rubbish accumulating in the natural environment etc and make changes based on these reasons.
If the side effect of this is the reduction of CO2, and greenhouse effect/global warming/climate change or what ever they decide to call it next is achieved, then we win on both sides. But as you can see, there is always going to be scepticism of science when they change the theory and say its proven, then change it again, it’s alot easier to prove our air quality is causing health issues, water quality causing loss of aquatic life and reduction of natural habitat is causing the decline of animal species. Work from this basis and the masses will follow, work from the climate change platform, and people (including myself) will constantly push back until proven.
By the way, Scientists can’t even ‘Prove’ what causes Gravity, there are theories (just like there are Climate Change theories), so saying Climate Change is proven is just rediculous. Not one single climate model that has managed to predict the last 14 years of slowed warming!!!
While I’m at it, can someone please explain to me how the ETS helps? I can see how it helps collect revenue, just not what they are using this revenue for.
No Bob, (I’m trying to be nice here), there isn’t “comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement”
Do some homework.
Here you go Richard, from the beloved Muller himself, look at Figure 1-5, seems to be a fairly constant cycle in climate, of which we are in a standard warming phase http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/history_of_climate.html
I especially love this comment ‘These data should frighten you. All of civilization developed during the last interglacial, and the data show that such interglacials are very brief. Our time looks about up. Data such as these are what led us to state, in the Preface, that the next ice age is about to hit us, any millennium now. It does not take a detailed theory to make this prediction. We don’t necessarily know why the next ice age is imminent (at least on a geological time scale), but the pattern is unmistakable.’
The “the climate has changed before” PRATT.
Well done Bob, you’ve referenced the first PRATT on the list. Please check before you bore us with the rest:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
I’ve every scientific institution on the planet on my side of the argument, you’ve got, let’s see, Ian Wishart, Anthony Watts and Chris Monckton NMHL (Never a Member of House of Lords) and a few internet blogs.
What different theories of gravity are there, Bob?
Here you go Murray, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation the current theory is that a body of mass causes a ‘bend’ in the spacetime continuium as mooted by the theory of General Relativity. Although the theory of General Relativity itself does not tie in with Quantum Mechanics without the unproven String Theory, therefore gravity cannot be proven. So as Richard Christie would say, do some homework.
Do you get your knowledge of climate science from wikipedia as well?
If you think gravity can’t be proven, you should have no objection to jumping off the Sky Tower. However, I’ll be charitable and accept that you may have meant that scientists do not have a single theory that combines all the forces of nature in a single mathematical framework. Is that what you meant to say? If you’re going to comment on science, you need to be a little more precise. And as for homework, I’ve done heaps of it, but thanks for your concern.
My apologies on 2 fronts Murray, firstly the link to Wikipedia was the simplist link to provide without knowing your level of scientific knowledge, secondly, I should have been more specific with my reference to Gravity. I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
Wrong again Bob.
It’s the climate change deniers who harp on about proof.
Climate scientists evaluate the evidence.
Actually Bob, your comment
I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
should really disqualify you from further comment.
“…without any ability to back it up (apart from”
(wait for it)
“…apart from IPCC reports…”
(now the knockout)
“…which only compile the latest scientific findings…”
?only?
What would be a better source of evidence for scientific consensus Bob?
A hyperlink to a no-name blog?
The Oregon Petition?
Rodney Hide’s say so?
the joke is the theory of climate change is far better understood and proven than gravity theory.
The joke is, people believe your statement to be true
You really should explain to us what you think you mean by these three words: theory, evidence and proof.
You keep using them, but I’m not sure why.
In the context of what I have been writing on this thread, I am using ‘Theory’ as an idea, something that may explain what is happening, ‘Evidence’ being what has been measured and gathered (based on current knowledge) which unfortunately, in the climate debate is being used to fit the theory, rather than the other way around, and ‘Proof’ can only ever be used loosley in science. To gain recognition of proof in science you have to have evidence to support your theory to a probability of 5 Sigma (1 in 3,500,000 chance of you being wrong).
The Climate Change ‘Theory’ uses data gathered from a huge range of sources (temperature records, Ice core samples, satellite data, tree rings, our knowledge of Milankovich cycles, Sun spot records etc) which is used as ‘Evidence’ and tries to bring them all together to say that Humans are now causing the Earth to warm faster than previous models expected.
There are many issues I have with this, there has never been a climate change model that has predicted a trend for any 5 year period (apart from retrospectively amending them for unforseen occurances like La Nina, if the science was sorted they would have already predicted the La Nina events!), temperature records are only a couple of hundred years old (a blink of an eye in long term climate), Ice core samples show CO2 following increases in warming which is explained away by then having a positive feedback causing more warming (which model explains when we hit the magical point where this turns back to glaciation? This must happen otherwise the positive feedback would surely warm the planet exponentially?), satellite data I have no problem with, other than the small amount of data in terms of historical reference, Tree rings are an in-exact yet useful tool, and Milankovich cycles are themselves disputed in scientific circles.
I hope this helps (while opening me up to expected criticism, which I thoroughly welcome)
Arghhhh
Care to elaborate?
All noise no signal
Thank you for your enlightening input into the discussion CV, you really are a bundle of knowledge. Good to see that once again, when faced with an absence of anything worthwhile to add the discussion you aren’t disheartened and comment worthlessly anyway.
Just same as you
I’ll put it in words you may be able to understand:
You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong.
Oh dear.
Bob.
“All noise no signal” is a concise and complete summation of your contribution to this thread. It is also a phrase that is well known to me at least, since it comes up frequently in discussions of matters scientific. An apt response in other words.
Draco also sums it up nicely.
You don’t appear to know what a theory is. You don’t appear to know what the scientific method is, nor indeed how it has been applied over the last one-hundred plus years in climate science.
The only thing left for me to do is to quote Wolfgang Pauli: Das is nicht einmal falsch.
You mentioned satellite data.
I note that it shows stratospheric cooling precisely as predicted by Manabe and Weatherald in 1967.
Patience running out, better things to do…
Bob you must be doug’s cousin the one with a spade in his head.
NASA spends $13 billion a year on climate research
BOB just makes it up for nothing.
This number is definitely not correct.
Kotahi and Mike, Whoops, here is NASA telling us there is no meaningful comparison of models to observed global temperature change:
“The analysis by Hansen et al. (2005), as well as other
recent studies (see, e.g., the reviews by Ramaswamy
et al. 2001; Kopp et al. 2005b; Lean et al. 2005; Loeb
and Manalo-Smith 2005; Lohmann and Feichter
2005; Pilewskie et al. 2005; Bates et al. 2006; Penner
et al. 2006), indicates that the current uncertainties
in the TSI and aerosol forcings are so large that they
preclude meaningful climate model evaluation by
comparison with observed global temperature change.
These uncertainties must be reduced significantly for
uncertainty in climate sensitivity to be adequately con-
strained (Schwartz 2004). Helping to address this chal-
lenging objective is the main purpose of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glory
mission, a remote sensing Earth-orbiting observatory”
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/88/5/pdf/i1520-0477-88-5-677.pdf
Or if you ignore Bob’s shitty broken link, made up quotes and missing document, this is the latest actual stuff from NASA:
http://www.voanews.com/content/nasa-earths-prehistoric-record-portends-nearing-rapid-climate-change-135370598/169705.html
Even NASA’s own website says:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Anyways, the American Meteorological Society (where Bob’s link goes to) state that:
That statement holds until Sept 2012. More on their position here, Bob. I reckon the members don’t have a problem with climate change models, in general.
Hey. Bob, do you find it demoralising when it takes people less than half an hour to expose your dishonest misuse of selective quotes?
Telling lies about NASA just makes you look deceitful, and says nothing whatsoever about NASA.
I have a question: are you deceitful or deceived? Are you consciously lying, or just parroting lies you’ve been spoon-fed?
Good stuff Bob, well written.
Unfortunately STANDARD science is that if anything doesn’t fit their model of mutually encouraged and supported mumbo jumbo (all caused by John Key directly) it is obviously wrong, and you are obviously less intelligent/perceptive/honest/caring/green than them here.
But don’t give up, we all have a duty to show these people up, with their hypocrisy and propaganda- inspired delusions. Unfortunately (or fortunately) not many people read this blog, so the moral & intellectual paucity of the left is not as exposed as it needs to be.
I am hoping more people will study Sociology 101, that and a bit of intellectual maturity makes it very easy to see the “arguments” here for what they are.
Keep up the good work.
“We all have a duty…”
So go on then. We’re waiting for you to make some sort of point. You must have some sort of supporting argument for your position beyond the above. What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort…
No Kotahi, it is not up to the dissenters to make a point regarding Climate Change, we aren’t the ones wanting to add a tax that in effect does nothing to solve a problem we haven’t yet conclusively proved!
Show me one model that predicts glaciation (I haven’t yet found one) as a result of AGW. At no time in the planets history has the temperature moved 1 degree higher than current without this occurring, so why would now be any different? If the science was settled (as everyone here seems to believe) this should stick out like a sore thumb!
Mark, thank you for your kind words, and I agree with you completely. This is actually part of the reason the more and more people on the street are at odds with the Climate Change theories, because as soon as you question the ‘believers’ like those on this site you just get comments like ‘Arghhhh’, ‘All noise no signal’, ‘You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong’ and ‘What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort (great quote by the way, just not in the context of this discussion)’ without any attempt at answering the questions put forward.
After all the comments back to me, still not one person willing to put there hand up and explain to me how the ETS helps, let alone trying to explain why the ‘settled science’ can’t predict La Nina events and their severity, or where the tipping point is to the start of the next Ice Age.
Bob.
Here is a proof:
If A is longer than B, and B is longer than C … then A is longer than C.
This statement is absolutely true. It can be proven to be true always, there can be no exceptions. (In strict mathematical terms we would also tie down the precise meaning of the word ‘longer’, but for the purpose of this simple discussion I’m assuming the plain obvious meaning.)
This sort of absolute truth is the domain of logic, mathematics and parts of philosophy. Many of these truths get titled “Theorems’. For instance Pythagoras got a very famous one about right angled triangles named after him.
In physical sciences by contrast there are no absolute truths. There are no ‘proofs’ in the same sense. What we have instead is ideas or ‘hypothesis’ (I’ll avoid using the word ‘theory’ because it’s easily confused with ‘theorem’) and a body of evidence.
For some sciences, for instance gravity, we have an enormous body of evidence that backs an hypothesis which we regard as for all practical purposes as true. Note carefully; we cannot ‘prove’ gravity. We cannot even ‘prove’ the Higgs boson that we hypothesise will be the cause of gravity. But this does not matter. Asking for ‘proof’ of gravity is like asking for ‘proof’ of Mozart. It simply does not apply.
What does matter in science is this: We put up a hypothesis, which is another word for an “idea”. In the case of AGW we have a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable ideas, some of which have been around for almost a century and sustained much scrutiny. Based on these ideas we have constructed a model of planetary climate which strongly suggests that more than 350 ppm of CO2 for any extended period is a bad idea… at least in terms of 9 billion odd humans on the planet as well.
We then look for evidence to either support the hypothesis or support the ‘null hypothesis’. Constructing these tests for statistical significance takes a substantial degree of skill in the science, statistics, and the hard logical thinking. Tamino at Open Mind is the most accessible of these people. If you, as I have done, spend a month or so reading his superbly professional material you will be well rewarded. The real power of his work is that he pays attention to the real meanings in the information. For instance:
As a result of decades of gathering vast amounts of data, detailed research and study our present understanding is that the AGW hypothesis is far more probably true than any other alternate hypothesis. That is as good a result as you ever get in science, and for all practical purposes it’s all we need.
It is not of course ‘absolute’ proof. When you demand this, you are asking for something that is irrelevant.
A good explanation of how science actually works, RedLogix. Many scientists also work with the idea of falsifiability – that any theory or hypothesis, to be scientific, must be falsifiable. In the case of AGW, I suppose this would require coming up with reasonable scientific explanations for all the data that have been gathered, which make different predictions to the accepted ones. I myself would expect that these reasonable explanations would come from someone with a degree of expertise in the field, not a radio shock jock, a mining geologist who thinks the sun is a ball of hot iron, or someone who has claimed to develop cures for almost all diseases known to mankind. When a scientist makes a contentious claim, the first thing I do is look at their list of peer reviewed publications. Although not conclusive as to their veracity, this does give a useful starting point. Note that I have no peer reviewed publications on climate change, but a reasonable number in other areas. I also have an Outstanding Referee Award from the American Physical Society, so I dare say that I understand the peer review process better than most.
“can’t explain to me how the ETS helps”
The ETS is designed to use market signals to reduce carbon emissions, exactly the same way as “cap and trade” was used to improve air quality in the USA. It is a mechanism beloved by adherents of “The Chicago School” – so your ignorance is a little bit surprising.
“can’t predict La Nina events ” – climate models do not predict weather events. I hope you understand the difference between climate and weather. La Ninas are short term events (measured in years) that have no effect on the long-term trend (measured in decades).
So there you go, more bullshit claims from Bob – you see, if you want explanations you have to ask for them.
For more on models and their success in predicting climate trends, I can recommend Barton Paul Levensons excellent summary.
Cap and Trade won’t work, I would have figured a hard core leftie such as yourself would realise this! Here you go, here is a fellow leftie explaining why (and actually making sense) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM
La Nina is Climate event that occurs every 2-3 years (long term trend, you like those don’t you?), http://weather.about.com/od/oceanweatherinteractions/a/La_Nina.htm these CLIMATE events CAUSE extreme weather events to occur.
Keep trying Kotahi, you’re getting closer, just the three initial questions that I asked still to answer (so actually you are no closer at all).
Bob: “…more and more people on the street are at odds…”
Really? Are they? You’ve been so full of shite about every single other thing I bet you haven’t even got that right. Recent polls from the USA indicate that once again, you’ve failed the reality check.
Tell me, are you as completely incompetent in your life as you are in this discussion?
When your link goes to a site that says, and I quote “a poll said Tuesday”, wow, you got me there, a poll said so. A poll of who?
How about this by the National Centre of Social Research in th UK rather than from ‘a poll’ which could have been from a recent gathering of Marxists for all we know! http://ir2.flife.de/data/natcen-social-research/igb_html/index.php?bericht_id=1000001&index=&lang=ENG
C- Must try harder