yep. I guess the local tories are still het up about saying only 3 people attended the asset sales marches and that poll trends mean nothing other than a labour leadership coup.
Today the space-trippers who make up Climate (cough cough) Science Coalition opened their case against NIWA, accusing them of scientific fraud and covering up allegedly skewed temperature records.
As someone who contributed to the gathering and dissemination of temperature data in the 70s and 80s, let me assure readers the claims from this Climate Science Coalition – or whatever these ideological right-wing nutters call themselves – is piffle.
Remember who their parliamentary representative used to be? John Boscawen. I heard him in The House make some idiotic statements that must have left the real climate scientists reeling in disbelief. The weather instruments at Albert Park for instance were in an enclosure separated by a scientifically acceptable distance (as laid down by the WMO) from both current and future growing flora.
I look forward to NIWA and their lawyers turning them into a nation-wide laughing stock.
I suspect that rather than deliver to the CSC a well deserved bollocking, the courts will just dismiss the action and state that the peer reviewed literature is correct forum for scientific debate.
Courts of law are ill equipped to adjudicate on science and have previously shown themselves as scientifically illiterate on too many occasions to count.
I expect you’re right RC but even so… it could and should give the Greens and Labour a chance to give this bunch of venal nut-cases a well deserved bollocking in the debating chamber.
And weka (below) is so right. What a waste of increasingly meagre NIWA resources.
Well, there’s one solution to that – the judge in his finding fines the CSC triple full costs and awards them to NIWA. These fines to be personally met by the CSC backers who names will also be made public.
fartrain we are an agricultural based economy we need every bit of help we can get.
just more short sighted crap from nactional.
look at biosecurity more cuts more mistakes.
As president of the International Commission on Atmospheric Chemistry and Global Pollution, ICACGP, which reports to the International Association of Meteorology and Atmospheric Sciences, IAMAS, I write you concerning your article entitled “NIWA station comments ‘misinformed'”.
I and my colleagues have been collaborating successfully with the NIWA scientists for over 25 years. The measurements of atmospheric measurements made at Lauder and related sites, by NIWA, provide unique and very significant contributions both to fundamental research in Earth Science and provide a key part of the evidence base, required for the monitoring, evolution and development of international environmental policy
I therefore disagree strongly with the opinions of a spokesperson for Science and Innovation Minister Steven Joyce quoted in the Otago Daily Times. The spokesperson denies the substantive issue and focusing on the appropriateness or the international scientific community commenting on a decision made by NIWA management.
Whilst respecting that the Management of NIWA have difficult choices to make to establish the priorities for their evolving research programme, it would be irresponsible and reprehensible of myself and ICACGP not to point out that their current plans lead to a loss of a unique capability in the Southern Hemisphere of strategic global long term significance, which has been and is a credit to New Zeeland.
Professor John P. Burrows M.A. Ph.D.
Director and Professor of Atmospheric Physics, Institute of Environmental Physics, University of Bremen, Bremen Germany and Fellow of the UK National Environmental Research Council Centre of Ecology and Hydrology, Oxfordshire U.K.
My name ist Justus Notholt, and I am professor at the University of Bremen in Germany. I have co-operated a long time with NIWA Lauder.
The suggested cut at Lauder is a disaster for global climate research. Lauder is one of the very few sites in the southern hemisphere where climate change is measured. Climate change requires observations for centuries, and Lauder has a long and very good record.
I do not understand why in the northern hemisphere the importance of investigating climate change is increasing and at the same time the atmospheric observations at Lauder are closed.
The arguments about the financial investments by NIWA and mentioning the total number of employments of 66 persons are misleading. What is planned is simply closing the atmospheric observations at NIWA Lauder, and for me that’s a big mistake.
The concerns expressed about the Lauder station by scientists around the world can be explained by the very high quality of Lauder data making it the unique station of this sort in the Southern Hemisphere.
Such high quality can be achieved only if measurements are checked by measurement scientists. Technicians can ensure the good functioning of the instruments but they are not trained for checking the validity of the data.
If NIWA wants to keep Lauder as a measurement station recognised worldwide, it is crucial to maintain a competent scientific staff. This necessity is a pre-requisite for international measurement networks. Only carefully checked measurements time series are useful for the study of the evolution of climate parameters.
Sophie Godin-Beekmann (CNRS, France)
Comments from other scientists and interested parties is at
The scientists and international agencies involved in atmosphere research have pointed out Lauder’s strategic location, its global value, and aired concerns that job cuts at the station could jeopardise the quality of the data collected.
An email sent to the ministers last week, signed by 200 international scientists, voiced “extreme concern” about proposed changes at the facility.
As I said on the last Climate Change thread, If you frame your arguement solely around pollution then I completely agree. We should be doing more to reduce reduce pollution in our waterways, we should be doing more to reduce CO (that’s carbon monoxide, not dioxide) Sulphur and other pollutants in our air, we should be looking at ways of reducing consuption of plastics, and other substances that take millenia to break down, we should be recycling more heavy metals from cell phones, computers, batteries etc and fining those who just dump them. We should be doing a lot to protect our environment for future generations, and we have made a start, but trying to change peoples mindsets on science which cannot be proven (there is a lot of comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement, so the public will never buy into it fully) is not the right way to go about it. Push the direct environmental inpacts, heavy metal poisoning, respiratory issues, pictures of rubbish accumulating in the natural environment etc and make changes based on these reasons.
If the side effect of this is the reduction of CO2, and greenhouse effect/global warming/climate change or what ever they decide to call it next is achieved, then we win on both sides. But as you can see, there is always going to be scepticism of science when they change the theory and say its proven, then change it again, it’s alot easier to prove our air quality is causing health issues, water quality causing loss of aquatic life and reduction of natural habitat is causing the decline of animal species. Work from this basis and the masses will follow, work from the climate change platform, and people (including myself) will constantly push back until proven.
By the way, Scientists can’t even ‘Prove’ what causes Gravity, there are theories (just like there are Climate Change theories), so saying Climate Change is proven is just rediculous. Not one single climate model that has managed to predict the last 14 years of slowed warming!!!
While I’m at it, can someone please explain to me how the ETS helps? I can see how it helps collect revenue, just not what they are using this revenue for.
I especially love this comment ‘These data should frighten you. All of civilization developed during the last interglacial, and the data show that such interglacials are very brief. Our time looks about up. Data such as these are what led us to state, in the Preface, that the next ice age is about to hit us, any millennium now. It does not take a detailed theory to make this prediction. We don’t necessarily know why the next ice age is imminent (at least on a geological time scale), but the pattern is unmistakable.’
I’ve every scientific institution on the planet on my side of the argument, you’ve got, let’s see, Ian Wishart, Anthony Watts and Chris Monckton NMHL (Never a Member of House of Lords) and a few internet blogs.
Here you go Murray, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation the current theory is that a body of mass causes a ‘bend’ in the spacetime continuium as mooted by the theory of General Relativity. Although the theory of General Relativity itself does not tie in with Quantum Mechanics without the unproven String Theory, therefore gravity cannot be proven. So as Richard Christie would say, do some homework.
Do you get your knowledge of climate science from wikipedia as well?
If you think gravity can’t be proven, you should have no objection to jumping off the Sky Tower. However, I’ll be charitable and accept that you may have meant that scientists do not have a single theory that combines all the forces of nature in a single mathematical framework. Is that what you meant to say? If you’re going to comment on science, you need to be a little more precise. And as for homework, I’ve done heaps of it, but thanks for your concern.
My apologies on 2 fronts Murray, firstly the link to Wikipedia was the simplist link to provide without knowing your level of scientific knowledge, secondly, I should have been more specific with my reference to Gravity. I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
should really disqualify you from further comment.
“…without any ability to back it up (apart from”
(wait for it)
“…apart from IPCC reports…”
(now the knockout)
“…which only compile the latest scientific findings…”
?only?
What would be a better source of evidence for scientific consensus Bob?
In the context of what I have been writing on this thread, I am using ‘Theory’ as an idea, something that may explain what is happening, ‘Evidence’ being what has been measured and gathered (based on current knowledge) which unfortunately, in the climate debate is being used to fit the theory, rather than the other way around, and ‘Proof’ can only ever be used loosley in science. To gain recognition of proof in science you have to have evidence to support your theory to a probability of 5 Sigma (1 in 3,500,000 chance of you being wrong).
The Climate Change ‘Theory’ uses data gathered from a huge range of sources (temperature records, Ice core samples, satellite data, tree rings, our knowledge of Milankovich cycles, Sun spot records etc) which is used as ‘Evidence’ and tries to bring them all together to say that Humans are now causing the Earth to warm faster than previous models expected.
There are many issues I have with this, there has never been a climate change model that has predicted a trend for any 5 year period (apart from retrospectively amending them for unforseen occurances like La Nina, if the science was sorted they would have already predicted the La Nina events!), temperature records are only a couple of hundred years old (a blink of an eye in long term climate), Ice core samples show CO2 following increases in warming which is explained away by then having a positive feedback causing more warming (which model explains when we hit the magical point where this turns back to glaciation? This must happen otherwise the positive feedback would surely warm the planet exponentially?), satellite data I have no problem with, other than the small amount of data in terms of historical reference, Tree rings are an in-exact yet useful tool, and Milankovich cycles are themselves disputed in scientific circles.
I hope this helps (while opening me up to expected criticism, which I thoroughly welcome)
Thank you for your enlightening input into the discussion CV, you really are a bundle of knowledge. Good to see that once again, when faced with an absence of anything worthwhile to add the discussion you aren’t disheartened and comment worthlessly anyway.
“All noise no signal” is a concise and complete summation of your contribution to this thread. It is also a phrase that is well known to me at least, since it comes up frequently in discussions of matters scientific. An apt response in other words.
Draco also sums it up nicely.
You don’t appear to know what a theory is. You don’t appear to know what the scientific method is, nor indeed how it has been applied over the last one-hundred plus years in climate science.
The only thing left for me to do is to quote Wolfgang Pauli: Das is nicht einmal falsch.
Kotahi and Mike, Whoops, here is NASA telling us there is no meaningful comparison of models to observed global temperature change:
“The analysis by Hansen et al. (2005), as well as other
recent studies (see, e.g., the reviews by Ramaswamy
et al. 2001; Kopp et al. 2005b; Lean et al. 2005; Loeb
and Manalo-Smith 2005; Lohmann and Feichter
2005; Pilewskie et al. 2005; Bates et al. 2006; Penner
et al. 2006), indicates that the current uncertainties
in the TSI and aerosol forcings are so large that they
preclude meaningful climate model evaluation by
comparison with observed global temperature change.
These uncertainties must be reduced significantly for
uncertainty in climate sensitivity to be adequately con-
strained (Schwartz 2004). Helping to address this chal-
lenging objective is the main purpose of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glory
mission, a remote sensing Earth-orbiting observatory”
A new U.S. space agency study warns the Earth this century could see rapid and catastrophic climate changes if man-made global warming levels are allowed to reach an internationally-recognized so-called “safe limit” of two degrees Celsius…
The scientists say looking at how the prehistoric climate responded to natural changes gives them more insight into determining a dangerous level of man-made global warming for today’s world.
Even NASA’s own website says:
The evidence for rapid climate change is compelling:
Anyways, the American Meteorological Society (where Bob’s link goes to) state that:
In 2007, the AMS issued the information statement “Climate Change: An Information Statement of the American Meteorological Society”:
“…there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems, and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond… Important goals for future work include the need to understand the relation of climate at the state and regional level to the patterns of global climate and to reverse the decline in observational networks that are so critical to accurate climate monitoring and prediction.”
That statement holds until Sept 2012. More on their position here, Bob. I reckon the members don’t have a problem with climate change models, in general.
Good stuff Bob, well written.
Unfortunately STANDARD science is that if anything doesn’t fit their model of mutually encouraged and supported mumbo jumbo (all caused by John Key directly) it is obviously wrong, and you are obviously less intelligent/perceptive/honest/caring/green than them here.
But don’t give up, we all have a duty to show these people up, with their hypocrisy and propaganda- inspired delusions. Unfortunately (or fortunately) not many people read this blog, so the moral & intellectual paucity of the left is not as exposed as it needs to be.
I am hoping more people will study Sociology 101, that and a bit of intellectual maturity makes it very easy to see the “arguments” here for what they are.
Keep up the good work.
So go on then. We’re waiting for you to make some sort of point. You must have some sort of supporting argument for your position beyond the above. What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort…
No Kotahi, it is not up to the dissenters to make a point regarding Climate Change, we aren’t the ones wanting to add a tax that in effect does nothing to solve a problem we haven’t yet conclusively proved!
Show me one model that predicts glaciation (I haven’t yet found one) as a result of AGW. At no time in the planets history has the temperature moved 1 degree higher than current without this occurring, so why would now be any different? If the science was settled (as everyone here seems to believe) this should stick out like a sore thumb!
Mark, thank you for your kind words, and I agree with you completely. This is actually part of the reason the more and more people on the street are at odds with the Climate Change theories, because as soon as you question the ‘believers’ like those on this site you just get comments like ‘Arghhhh’, ‘All noise no signal’, ‘You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong’ and ‘What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort (great quote by the way, just not in the context of this discussion)’ without any attempt at answering the questions put forward.
After all the comments back to me, still not one person willing to put there hand up and explain to me how the ETS helps, let alone trying to explain why the ‘settled science’ can’t predict La Nina events and their severity, or where the tipping point is to the start of the next Ice Age.
If A is longer than B, and B is longer than C … then A is longer than C.
This statement is absolutely true. It can be proven to be true always, there can be no exceptions. (In strict mathematical terms we would also tie down the precise meaning of the word ‘longer’, but for the purpose of this simple discussion I’m assuming the plain obvious meaning.)
This sort of absolute truth is the domain of logic, mathematics and parts of philosophy. Many of these truths get titled “Theorems’. For instance Pythagoras got a very famous one about right angled triangles named after him.
In physical sciences by contrast there are no absolute truths. There are no ‘proofs’ in the same sense. What we have instead is ideas or ‘hypothesis’ (I’ll avoid using the word ‘theory’ because it’s easily confused with ‘theorem’) and a body of evidence.
For some sciences, for instance gravity, we have an enormous body of evidence that backs an hypothesis which we regard as for all practical purposes as true. Note carefully; we cannot ‘prove’ gravity. We cannot even ‘prove’ the Higgs boson that we hypothesise will be the cause of gravity. But this does not matter. Asking for ‘proof’ of gravity is like asking for ‘proof’ of Mozart. It simply does not apply.
What does matter in science is this: We put up a hypothesis, which is another word for an “idea”. In the case of AGW we have a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable ideas, some of which have been around for almost a century and sustained much scrutiny. Based on these ideas we have constructed a model of planetary climate which strongly suggests that more than 350 ppm of CO2 for any extended period is a bad idea… at least in terms of 9 billion odd humans on the planet as well.
We then look for evidence to either support the hypothesis or support the ‘null hypothesis’. Constructing these tests for statistical significance takes a substantial degree of skill in the science, statistics, and the hard logical thinking. Tamino at Open Mind is the most accessible of these people. If you, as I have done, spend a month or so reading his superbly professional material you will be well rewarded. The real power of his work is that he pays attention to the real meanings in the information. For instance:
It’s “only” 3-sigma. As I said earlier, the “5-sigma” requirement isn’t right. And let me ask you in all seriousness: if I told you that a train was speeding toward your own children but I could only prove it to 3-sigma, would you say, “I’ll wait until you get 5-sigma before telling them to get off the railroad tracks”?
As a result of decades of gathering vast amounts of data, detailed research and study our present understanding is that the AGW hypothesis is far more probably true than any other alternate hypothesis. That is as good a result as you ever get in science, and for all practical purposes it’s all we need.
It is not of course ‘absolute’ proof. When you demand this, you are asking for something that is irrelevant.
A good explanation of how science actually works, RedLogix. Many scientists also work with the idea of falsifiability – that any theory or hypothesis, to be scientific, must be falsifiable. In the case of AGW, I suppose this would require coming up with reasonable scientific explanations for all the data that have been gathered, which make different predictions to the accepted ones. I myself would expect that these reasonable explanations would come from someone with a degree of expertise in the field, not a radio shock jock, a mining geologist who thinks the sun is a ball of hot iron, or someone who has claimed to develop cures for almost all diseases known to mankind. When a scientist makes a contentious claim, the first thing I do is look at their list of peer reviewed publications. Although not conclusive as to their veracity, this does give a useful starting point. Note that I have no peer reviewed publications on climate change, but a reasonable number in other areas. I also have an Outstanding Referee Award from the American Physical Society, so I dare say that I understand the peer review process better than most.
The ETS is designed to use market signals to reduce carbon emissions, exactly the same way as “cap and trade” was used to improve air quality in the USA. It is a mechanism beloved by adherents of “The Chicago School” – so your ignorance is a little bit surprising.
“can’t predict La Nina events ” – climate models do not predict weather events. I hope you understand the difference between climate and weather. La Ninas are short term events (measured in years) that have no effect on the long-term trend (measured in decades).
So there you go, more bullshit claims from Bob – you see, if you want explanations you have to ask for them.
For more on models and their success in predicting climate trends, I can recommend Barton Paul Levensons excellent summary.
Cap and Trade won’t work, I would have figured a hard core leftie such as yourself would realise this! Here you go, here is a fellow leftie explaining why (and actually making sense) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM
Bob: “…more and more people on the street are at odds…”
Really? Are they? You’ve been so full of shite about every single other thing I bet you haven’t even got that right. Recent polls from the USA indicate that once again, you’ve failed the reality check.
Tell me, are you as completely incompetent in your life as you are in this discussion?
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Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisitionNOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Former opposition leader Matthew Wale has been announced as the second prime ministerial candidate ahead of the election in Solomon Islands tomorrow. He will face off against former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele, who was announced by the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation ...
The Government’s spending cuts are again targeting support for Māori with proposed reform of the agency charged with advising on Māori wellbeing and development. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Douglas, Honorary Senior Lecturer, UNSW Aviation., UNSW Sydney The history of budget jet airlines in Australia is a long road littered with broken dreams. New entrants have consistently struggled to get a foothold. Low-cost carrier Bonza has just become the industry’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rosalind Dixon, Director, Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law, UNSW Sydney Australia is finally having a sustained conversation about violence against women and what we can do about it. It is more than time. Australian women and girls continue to experience ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne stockfour/Shutterstock Preliminary bulk billing data released this week shows a 2.1% rise in bulk billing up to March. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Schulz, Senior Lecturer, University of Adelaide Australia is once again grappling with how we can stop gendered violence in our country. Protests over the weekend show there is enormous community anger over the number of women who are dying and National ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University AnastasiaDudka/Shutterstock What if the government was doing everything it could to stop thieves making off with our money, except the one thing that could really work? That’s how it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Erin Harrington, Senior Lecturer in English and Cultural Studies, University of Canterbury The Conversation It seems to be a time of old favourites. This month our experts have recommended two new seasons – the second season of Alone Australia (although ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland A bright Eta Aquariid meteor photobombed this photo of comet C/2020 F8 (SWAN) in May 2020.Jonti Horner Meteors – commonly known as shooting stars – can be seen on any night of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Flannery, Honorary fellow, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock Current concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO₂) in Earth’s atmosphere are unprecedented in human history. But CO₂ levels today, and those that might occur in coming decades, did occur millions of years ago. ...
Winston Peters has been keen to dismiss speculation on our involvement in Aukus but will give a speech tonight on the direction of our foreign policy, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Usmar, Lecturer in Critical Media Literacies, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images With the coalition government’s ban of student mobile phones in New Zealand schools coming into effect this week, reaction has ranged from the sceptical (kids will just get ...
A new report on protecting journalism and democracy in New Zealand recommends a levy be charged on global platforms like Facebook and Google to fund media firms undertaking public interest reporting. It also calls for the reinstatement of a powerful Broadcasting Commission to distribute public funding for journalism and other ...
On International Workers' Day, also known as May Day, the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi and the wider union movement are celebrating the proud history of the labour movement during a tough time for working people. ...
From bills to beards, a walk through the former Green co-leader’s time in politics. After close to a decade in politics, James Shaw is preparing to bid farewell to parliament. Tonight will see the former minister deliver his valedictory address, certain to be a speech filled with Shaw’s trademark wit ...
Two months ago, MPs unanimously voted to give themselves a week off in Efeso Collins’ honour. On Tuesday, most were too busy to give even an hour of their time. The day Fa’anānā Efeso Collins died, parliament felt different. In a building that operates at a breakneck pace, everyone stopped ...
India’s election involves hundreds of millions of people and is a months-long affair. Here’s how voting works and what’s at stake.The biggest-ever election in world history started on April 19, with more than 10% of the world’s population eligible to vote. Elections in India, the world’s most populous country ...
Emotional scenes played out in the Invercargill courthouse on the first two days of the coronial inquest into the death of Gore toddler Lachlan Jones, in which the boy’s mother was accused of disposing of her son’s body. The second season of Newsroom’s award-nominated podcast The Boy in the Water ...
Opinion: The impression from the carpark is very inviting. The area is well fenced but barred so there is easy visibility of loved ones. Inside, the spaces are welcoming and clean and staff are friendly and clearly comfortable. I am greeted by ‘Kim’. She has worked here for three years, ...
After the Christchurch earthquake, the then-national civil defence boss compared his experience to “putting a team on the rugby field who have never ever played together before”. Now, eight years later – and following a damning inquiry into the emergency response of cyclones Gabrielle, Hale and the Auckland anniversary weekend floods – ...
“I had just come off the end of a major robbery case which I had been working on for six months when I got a call on the afternoon of September 1, 1992, that some remains had been found at a building site in Devonport, so I drove over with ...
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Comment: Journalists are very good at telling other people’s stories, but they fall well short when writing about their own profession. Perhaps that is why it is so undervalued. Every successive poll on the public’s attitude toward journalism is more alarming than the last. In the last month we have ...
Opinion: A young Māori woman and her Pacific partner arrive at their local hospital by ambulance. She has gone into labour at just under 24 weeks, but the couple haven’t recognised the symptoms – and don’t know the risks of premature birth for their baby. By the time they arrive, ...
Behind closed doors, NZ First will be arguing fiercely against any watering down of the ministerial decision-making powers in the Bill The post Bishop backtracks after fast-track backlash appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Asia Pacific Report A Pacific civil society alliance has condemned French neocolonial policies in Kanaky New Caledonia, saying Paris is set on “maintaining the status quo” and denying the indigenous Kanak people their inalienable right to self-determination. The Pacific Regional Non-Governmental Organisations (PRNGOs) Alliance, representing some 15 groups, said in ...
Koi Tū New Zealand cannot sit back and see the collapse of its Fourth Estate, the director of Koi Tū: The Centre for Informed Futures, Sir Peter Gluckman, says in the foreword of a paper published today. The paper, “If not journalists, then who?” paints a picture of an industry ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Foreign investment proposals with implications for Australia’s strategic or economic security will face tougher scrutiny, under a policy overhaul to be announced by Treasurer Jim Chalmers on Wednesday. At the same time, the government ...
A Waitangi Tribunal inquiry report has warned government that a repeal of Section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act could cause harm to children in care. ...
The Treasury has published today three new papers covering government consumption multipliers, automatic stabilisers and the impacts of global shocks on New Zealand’s economy. ...
Asia Pacific Report The Pacific state of Hawai’i’s House of Representatives has joined the state’s Senate in calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza, becoming the first state to pass such a resolution, reports Hawaii News Now. In March, the Senate passed a ceasefire resolution with a 24–1 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Ferrie, A/Prof, UTS Chancellor’s Postdoctoral Research and ARC DECRA Fellow, University of Technology Sydney PsiQuantum The Australian government has announced a pledge of approximately A$940 million (US$617 million) to PsiQuantum, a quantum computing start-up company based in Silicon Valley. Half ...
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Two hours without a comment. Nothing to worry about then? Seemed pretty logical to me though.
yep. I guess the local tories are still het up about saying only 3 people attended the asset sales marches and that poll trends mean nothing other than a labour leadership coup.
Or possibly what this guy is saying is so obvious to anyone with half a brain that only Pete George could disagree.
And Pete’s too busy “trying” to save Peter Dunne from overdue political extinction due to the consequences of his own actions :3
Recall the product, sort of has my vote, but rather we didn’t create the ‘produce’ in the first place, recalling can be so bloody, but inevitable.
Today the space-trippers who make up Climate (cough cough) Science Coalition opened their case against NIWA, accusing them of scientific fraud and covering up allegedly skewed temperature records.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1207/S00177/climate-science-flatearthers-in-support-of-climate-realists.htm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10819971
LOL @flatearthers!
As someone who contributed to the gathering and dissemination of temperature data in the 70s and 80s, let me assure readers the claims from this Climate Science Coalition – or whatever these ideological right-wing nutters call themselves – is piffle.
Remember who their parliamentary representative used to be? John Boscawen. I heard him in The House make some idiotic statements that must have left the real climate scientists reeling in disbelief. The weather instruments at Albert Park for instance were in an enclosure separated by a scientifically acceptable distance (as laid down by the WMO) from both current and future growing flora.
I look forward to NIWA and their lawyers turning them into a nation-wide laughing stock.
I suspect that rather than deliver to the CSC a well deserved bollocking, the courts will just dismiss the action and state that the peer reviewed literature is correct forum for scientific debate.
Courts of law are ill equipped to adjudicate on science and have previously shown themselves as scientifically illiterate on too many occasions to count.
I expect you’re right RC but even so… it could and should give the Greens and Labour a chance to give this bunch of venal nut-cases a well deserved bollocking in the debating chamber.
And weka (below) is so right. What a waste of increasingly meagre NIWA resources.
What a waste of NIWA resources though, and in the same week when staff cuts were announced.
Well, there’s one solution to that – the judge in his finding fines the CSC triple full costs and awards them to NIWA. These fines to be personally met by the CSC backers who names will also be made public.
Action has been brought by a Trust I believe, fronting for CSC.
Can the trustees be made liable? .
weka
Was it not three people only in Lauder, which had been automated ?
fartrain we are an agricultural based economy we need every bit of help we can get.
just more short sighted crap from nactional.
look at biosecurity more cuts more mistakes.
Fortran
Comments from other scientists and interested parties is at
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/216901/niwa-station-comments-misinformed
From yesterday
Details at
http://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/217215/worldwide-support-niwa-role
As I said on the last Climate Change thread, If you frame your arguement solely around pollution then I completely agree. We should be doing more to reduce reduce pollution in our waterways, we should be doing more to reduce CO (that’s carbon monoxide, not dioxide) Sulphur and other pollutants in our air, we should be looking at ways of reducing consuption of plastics, and other substances that take millenia to break down, we should be recycling more heavy metals from cell phones, computers, batteries etc and fining those who just dump them. We should be doing a lot to protect our environment for future generations, and we have made a start, but trying to change peoples mindsets on science which cannot be proven (there is a lot of comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement, so the public will never buy into it fully) is not the right way to go about it. Push the direct environmental inpacts, heavy metal poisoning, respiratory issues, pictures of rubbish accumulating in the natural environment etc and make changes based on these reasons.
If the side effect of this is the reduction of CO2, and greenhouse effect/global warming/climate change or what ever they decide to call it next is achieved, then we win on both sides. But as you can see, there is always going to be scepticism of science when they change the theory and say its proven, then change it again, it’s alot easier to prove our air quality is causing health issues, water quality causing loss of aquatic life and reduction of natural habitat is causing the decline of animal species. Work from this basis and the masses will follow, work from the climate change platform, and people (including myself) will constantly push back until proven.
By the way, Scientists can’t even ‘Prove’ what causes Gravity, there are theories (just like there are Climate Change theories), so saying Climate Change is proven is just rediculous. Not one single climate model that has managed to predict the last 14 years of slowed warming!!!
While I’m at it, can someone please explain to me how the ETS helps? I can see how it helps collect revenue, just not what they are using this revenue for.
No Bob, (I’m trying to be nice here), there isn’t “comelling evedence on both sides of the arguement”
Do some homework.
Here you go Richard, from the beloved Muller himself, look at Figure 1-5, seems to be a fairly constant cycle in climate, of which we are in a standard warming phase http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/history_of_climate.html
I especially love this comment ‘These data should frighten you. All of civilization developed during the last interglacial, and the data show that such interglacials are very brief. Our time looks about up. Data such as these are what led us to state, in the Preface, that the next ice age is about to hit us, any millennium now. It does not take a detailed theory to make this prediction. We don’t necessarily know why the next ice age is imminent (at least on a geological time scale), but the pattern is unmistakable.’
The “the climate has changed before” PRATT.
Well done Bob, you’ve referenced the first PRATT on the list. Please check before you bore us with the rest:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
I’ve every scientific institution on the planet on my side of the argument, you’ve got, let’s see, Ian Wishart, Anthony Watts and Chris Monckton NMHL (Never a Member of House of Lords) and a few internet blogs.
What different theories of gravity are there, Bob?
Here you go Murray, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation the current theory is that a body of mass causes a ‘bend’ in the spacetime continuium as mooted by the theory of General Relativity. Although the theory of General Relativity itself does not tie in with Quantum Mechanics without the unproven String Theory, therefore gravity cannot be proven. So as Richard Christie would say, do some homework.
Do you get your knowledge of climate science from wikipedia as well?
If you think gravity can’t be proven, you should have no objection to jumping off the Sky Tower. However, I’ll be charitable and accept that you may have meant that scientists do not have a single theory that combines all the forces of nature in a single mathematical framework. Is that what you meant to say? If you’re going to comment on science, you need to be a little more precise. And as for homework, I’ve done heaps of it, but thanks for your concern.
My apologies on 2 fronts Murray, firstly the link to Wikipedia was the simplist link to provide without knowing your level of scientific knowledge, secondly, I should have been more specific with my reference to Gravity. I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
Wrong again Bob.
It’s the climate change deniers who harp on about proof.
Climate scientists evaluate the evidence.
Actually Bob, your comment
I just get annoyed by the ‘Scientific Consensus’ and ‘Scientifically Proven’ lines that get thrown around on this site without any ability to back it up (apart from IPCC reports, which only compile the latest scientific findings, which people here seem to take as hard proof).
should really disqualify you from further comment.
“…without any ability to back it up (apart from”
(wait for it)
“…apart from IPCC reports…”
(now the knockout)
“…which only compile the latest scientific findings…”
?only?
What would be a better source of evidence for scientific consensus Bob?
A hyperlink to a no-name blog?
The Oregon Petition?
Rodney Hide’s say so?
the joke is the theory of climate change is far better understood and proven than gravity theory.
The joke is, people believe your statement to be true
You really should explain to us what you think you mean by these three words: theory, evidence and proof.
You keep using them, but I’m not sure why.
In the context of what I have been writing on this thread, I am using ‘Theory’ as an idea, something that may explain what is happening, ‘Evidence’ being what has been measured and gathered (based on current knowledge) which unfortunately, in the climate debate is being used to fit the theory, rather than the other way around, and ‘Proof’ can only ever be used loosley in science. To gain recognition of proof in science you have to have evidence to support your theory to a probability of 5 Sigma (1 in 3,500,000 chance of you being wrong).
The Climate Change ‘Theory’ uses data gathered from a huge range of sources (temperature records, Ice core samples, satellite data, tree rings, our knowledge of Milankovich cycles, Sun spot records etc) which is used as ‘Evidence’ and tries to bring them all together to say that Humans are now causing the Earth to warm faster than previous models expected.
There are many issues I have with this, there has never been a climate change model that has predicted a trend for any 5 year period (apart from retrospectively amending them for unforseen occurances like La Nina, if the science was sorted they would have already predicted the La Nina events!), temperature records are only a couple of hundred years old (a blink of an eye in long term climate), Ice core samples show CO2 following increases in warming which is explained away by then having a positive feedback causing more warming (which model explains when we hit the magical point where this turns back to glaciation? This must happen otherwise the positive feedback would surely warm the planet exponentially?), satellite data I have no problem with, other than the small amount of data in terms of historical reference, Tree rings are an in-exact yet useful tool, and Milankovich cycles are themselves disputed in scientific circles.
I hope this helps (while opening me up to expected criticism, which I thoroughly welcome)
Arghhhh
Care to elaborate?
All noise no signal
Thank you for your enlightening input into the discussion CV, you really are a bundle of knowledge. Good to see that once again, when faced with an absence of anything worthwhile to add the discussion you aren’t disheartened and comment worthlessly anyway.
Just same as you
I’ll put it in words you may be able to understand:
You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong.
Oh dear.
Bob.
“All noise no signal” is a concise and complete summation of your contribution to this thread. It is also a phrase that is well known to me at least, since it comes up frequently in discussions of matters scientific. An apt response in other words.
Draco also sums it up nicely.
You don’t appear to know what a theory is. You don’t appear to know what the scientific method is, nor indeed how it has been applied over the last one-hundred plus years in climate science.
The only thing left for me to do is to quote Wolfgang Pauli: Das is nicht einmal falsch.
You mentioned satellite data.
I note that it shows stratospheric cooling precisely as predicted by Manabe and Weatherald in 1967.
Patience running out, better things to do…
Bob you must be doug’s cousin the one with a spade in his head.
NASA spends $13 billion a year on climate research
BOB just makes it up for nothing.
This number is definitely not correct.
Kotahi and Mike, Whoops, here is NASA telling us there is no meaningful comparison of models to observed global temperature change:
“The analysis by Hansen et al. (2005), as well as other
recent studies (see, e.g., the reviews by Ramaswamy
et al. 2001; Kopp et al. 2005b; Lean et al. 2005; Loeb
and Manalo-Smith 2005; Lohmann and Feichter
2005; Pilewskie et al. 2005; Bates et al. 2006; Penner
et al. 2006), indicates that the current uncertainties
in the TSI and aerosol forcings are so large that they
preclude meaningful climate model evaluation by
comparison with observed global temperature change.
These uncertainties must be reduced significantly for
uncertainty in climate sensitivity to be adequately con-
strained (Schwartz 2004). Helping to address this chal-
lenging objective is the main purpose of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Glory
mission, a remote sensing Earth-orbiting observatory”
http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0477/88/5/pdf/i1520-0477-88-5-677.pdf
Or if you ignore Bob’s shitty broken link, made up quotes and missing document, this is the latest actual stuff from NASA:
http://www.voanews.com/content/nasa-earths-prehistoric-record-portends-nearing-rapid-climate-change-135370598/169705.html
Even NASA’s own website says:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
Anyways, the American Meteorological Society (where Bob’s link goes to) state that:
That statement holds until Sept 2012. More on their position here, Bob. I reckon the members don’t have a problem with climate change models, in general.
Hey. Bob, do you find it demoralising when it takes people less than half an hour to expose your dishonest misuse of selective quotes?
Telling lies about NASA just makes you look deceitful, and says nothing whatsoever about NASA.
I have a question: are you deceitful or deceived? Are you consciously lying, or just parroting lies you’ve been spoon-fed?
Good stuff Bob, well written.
Unfortunately STANDARD science is that if anything doesn’t fit their model of mutually encouraged and supported mumbo jumbo (all caused by John Key directly) it is obviously wrong, and you are obviously less intelligent/perceptive/honest/caring/green than them here.
But don’t give up, we all have a duty to show these people up, with their hypocrisy and propaganda- inspired delusions. Unfortunately (or fortunately) not many people read this blog, so the moral & intellectual paucity of the left is not as exposed as it needs to be.
I am hoping more people will study Sociology 101, that and a bit of intellectual maturity makes it very easy to see the “arguments” here for what they are.
Keep up the good work.
“We all have a duty…”
So go on then. We’re waiting for you to make some sort of point. You must have some sort of supporting argument for your position beyond the above. What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort…
No Kotahi, it is not up to the dissenters to make a point regarding Climate Change, we aren’t the ones wanting to add a tax that in effect does nothing to solve a problem we haven’t yet conclusively proved!
Show me one model that predicts glaciation (I haven’t yet found one) as a result of AGW. At no time in the planets history has the temperature moved 1 degree higher than current without this occurring, so why would now be any different? If the science was settled (as everyone here seems to believe) this should stick out like a sore thumb!
Mark, thank you for your kind words, and I agree with you completely. This is actually part of the reason the more and more people on the street are at odds with the Climate Change theories, because as soon as you question the ‘believers’ like those on this site you just get comments like ‘Arghhhh’, ‘All noise no signal’, ‘You’re spouting waffle. Everything you say is wrong’ and ‘What’s that? You’d finished? Well, allow me to retort (great quote by the way, just not in the context of this discussion)’ without any attempt at answering the questions put forward.
After all the comments back to me, still not one person willing to put there hand up and explain to me how the ETS helps, let alone trying to explain why the ‘settled science’ can’t predict La Nina events and their severity, or where the tipping point is to the start of the next Ice Age.
Bob.
Here is a proof:
If A is longer than B, and B is longer than C … then A is longer than C.
This statement is absolutely true. It can be proven to be true always, there can be no exceptions. (In strict mathematical terms we would also tie down the precise meaning of the word ‘longer’, but for the purpose of this simple discussion I’m assuming the plain obvious meaning.)
This sort of absolute truth is the domain of logic, mathematics and parts of philosophy. Many of these truths get titled “Theorems’. For instance Pythagoras got a very famous one about right angled triangles named after him.
In physical sciences by contrast there are no absolute truths. There are no ‘proofs’ in the same sense. What we have instead is ideas or ‘hypothesis’ (I’ll avoid using the word ‘theory’ because it’s easily confused with ‘theorem’) and a body of evidence.
For some sciences, for instance gravity, we have an enormous body of evidence that backs an hypothesis which we regard as for all practical purposes as true. Note carefully; we cannot ‘prove’ gravity. We cannot even ‘prove’ the Higgs boson that we hypothesise will be the cause of gravity. But this does not matter. Asking for ‘proof’ of gravity is like asking for ‘proof’ of Mozart. It simply does not apply.
What does matter in science is this: We put up a hypothesis, which is another word for an “idea”. In the case of AGW we have a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable ideas, some of which have been around for almost a century and sustained much scrutiny. Based on these ideas we have constructed a model of planetary climate which strongly suggests that more than 350 ppm of CO2 for any extended period is a bad idea… at least in terms of 9 billion odd humans on the planet as well.
We then look for evidence to either support the hypothesis or support the ‘null hypothesis’. Constructing these tests for statistical significance takes a substantial degree of skill in the science, statistics, and the hard logical thinking. Tamino at Open Mind is the most accessible of these people. If you, as I have done, spend a month or so reading his superbly professional material you will be well rewarded. The real power of his work is that he pays attention to the real meanings in the information. For instance:
As a result of decades of gathering vast amounts of data, detailed research and study our present understanding is that the AGW hypothesis is far more probably true than any other alternate hypothesis. That is as good a result as you ever get in science, and for all practical purposes it’s all we need.
It is not of course ‘absolute’ proof. When you demand this, you are asking for something that is irrelevant.
A good explanation of how science actually works, RedLogix. Many scientists also work with the idea of falsifiability – that any theory or hypothesis, to be scientific, must be falsifiable. In the case of AGW, I suppose this would require coming up with reasonable scientific explanations for all the data that have been gathered, which make different predictions to the accepted ones. I myself would expect that these reasonable explanations would come from someone with a degree of expertise in the field, not a radio shock jock, a mining geologist who thinks the sun is a ball of hot iron, or someone who has claimed to develop cures for almost all diseases known to mankind. When a scientist makes a contentious claim, the first thing I do is look at their list of peer reviewed publications. Although not conclusive as to their veracity, this does give a useful starting point. Note that I have no peer reviewed publications on climate change, but a reasonable number in other areas. I also have an Outstanding Referee Award from the American Physical Society, so I dare say that I understand the peer review process better than most.
“can’t explain to me how the ETS helps”
The ETS is designed to use market signals to reduce carbon emissions, exactly the same way as “cap and trade” was used to improve air quality in the USA. It is a mechanism beloved by adherents of “The Chicago School” – so your ignorance is a little bit surprising.
“can’t predict La Nina events ” – climate models do not predict weather events. I hope you understand the difference between climate and weather. La Ninas are short term events (measured in years) that have no effect on the long-term trend (measured in decades).
So there you go, more bullshit claims from Bob – you see, if you want explanations you have to ask for them.
For more on models and their success in predicting climate trends, I can recommend Barton Paul Levensons excellent summary.
Cap and Trade won’t work, I would have figured a hard core leftie such as yourself would realise this! Here you go, here is a fellow leftie explaining why (and actually making sense) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA6FSy6EKrM
La Nina is Climate event that occurs every 2-3 years (long term trend, you like those don’t you?), http://weather.about.com/od/oceanweatherinteractions/a/La_Nina.htm these CLIMATE events CAUSE extreme weather events to occur.
Keep trying Kotahi, you’re getting closer, just the three initial questions that I asked still to answer (so actually you are no closer at all).
Bob: “…more and more people on the street are at odds…”
Really? Are they? You’ve been so full of shite about every single other thing I bet you haven’t even got that right. Recent polls from the USA indicate that once again, you’ve failed the reality check.
Tell me, are you as completely incompetent in your life as you are in this discussion?
When your link goes to a site that says, and I quote “a poll said Tuesday”, wow, you got me there, a poll said so. A poll of who?
How about this by the National Centre of Social Research in th UK rather than from ‘a poll’ which could have been from a recent gathering of Marxists for all we know! http://ir2.flife.de/data/natcen-social-research/igb_html/index.php?bericht_id=1000001&index=&lang=ENG
C- Must try harder