Daily Review 04/12/2015

55 comments on “Daily Review 04/12/2015 ”

• Comments are now closed

1. katipo 1

   4 December 2015 at 6:14 pm

   An Interesting read…
   How Mark Zuckerberg’s Altruism Helps Himself.
   Zuckerberg set up a limited liability company, which has reaped enormous benefits as public relations coup and will help minimize his tax bill.

   https://www.propublica.org/article/how-mark-zuckerbergs-altruism-helps-himself?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1449178700
   • greywarshark 1.1

     4 December 2015 at 7:47 pm

     Chap here set up charity kidscan or something which got fairly small contributions before being sold off, but while he owned it he funnelled $15? million through it over a few years, using it as a holding account for funds he invested in his own businesses which went bust. I wonder whether he was being altruistic, he said he was. The charity got the interest on the money till it was used on his ventures.

     zuckerberg – sucker mountain or sugar mountain? Some names are uncannily suitable.
     • Molly 1.1.1

       5 December 2015 at 8:26 am

       When KidsCan started – I had a quick look at the charities commission website for it after seeing a very large, brand new KidsCan vehicle on the motorway. I’m was also a bit dubious about the simplistic fix for kids in poverty of a raincoat and shoes. (Neither of them well made.)

       In their posted accounts online, a significant amount of money went to a specific promotions company, which when I checked had names associated with the charity.

       My view was: good business acumen, failed moral compass.
       • greywarshark 1.1.1.1

         5 December 2015 at 12:44 pm

         Molly
         My feeling is that the real need in the community today brings out the human fleas to utilise the resource of a mass of poverty stricken people eager to catch on to help or charity offered. But sometimes the helpers are looking to nurture their own ends. Ouch. I’ve got a flea at the moment – I know how it bites but hope to be able to soon nip it in the bud so to speak.

         I have noticed the numbers of charities being started up. In a society where the majority in a satisfactory financial state show little interest in fairness to all, it makes me suspicious as to the reasoning of those behind charities. Cynical, but I consider that is well-based when one looks at the stories behind those ending up in Court where we hear the background.

         When people have very little they lack the resources to examine every offer, and are in the awkward position of being offered charity from apparent sympathetic people which may be offered in unhelpful ways, and with ulterior motives.
2. tc 2

   4 December 2015 at 6:51 pm

   Read his bio or just watch fincher and zorkins ‘the social network’. The zuckerberg is all about the zuckerberg.
3. Mark 3

   4 December 2015 at 7:13 pm

   Oh dear, the terrible Labour Party headed by the completely unelectable Jeremy Corbyn has just won a by-election in Oldham with daylight second after all of the MSM predicted a close race or a loss. How could those papers get it so wrong. And the candidate was anti-airstrikes as well. Maybe poor Jeremy is not so unelectable after all.
   • Colonial Viper 3.1

     4 December 2015 at 7:18 pm

     It seems being “hard left” appeals to the electorate. Someone wake up the Nashs etc in the NZ Labour Party and let them know.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

       4 December 2015 at 10:40 pm

       They know but their job seems to be to ensure that Labour keeps on the narrow, failed, neo-liberal path.
     • Wainwright 3.1.2

       4 December 2015 at 11:25 pm

       Like they’d listen to real evidence.
   • ScottGN 3.2

     4 December 2015 at 8:24 pm

     That’s not quite how it worked out.
     It looks like voters in Oldham went to the polling booths to elect their very popular council leader ( who went to some lengths during the campaign to distance himself from Corbyn) as a Labour mp in spite of the fact that most of them aren’t that taken with the leader of the parliamentary Labour party.
     • Mark 3.2.1

       5 December 2015 at 1:26 am

       Only if you believe what trash they write in the Guardian/Mail/Telegraph. Pre polling day, Corbyn was dragging the Labour Party to certain defeat or at his very best a narrow win. Labour in fact increased their share of the vote by over 7% while Tories dropped under 10%. Corbyn has been the whole focus of Ukips and the Tories campaign with leaflets and adverts attacking him relentlessly. The result has shocked the so called well informed pundits who as usual have their heads that far up their arse they don’t know what day it is.
   • mickysavage 3.3

     4 December 2015 at 8:29 pm

     Yep just thinking about a post …
4. Macro 4

   4 December 2015 at 7:22 pm

   So when is the Government of the USA going to declare the NRA a terrorist organisation?
   1,052 mass shootings in 1,066 days
   http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence
   http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/04/day-after-san-bernardino-republicans-line-up-to-crush-gun-control-efforts
   • mickysavage 4.1

     4 December 2015 at 8:30 pm

     Like the graphic above?
     • Macro 4.1.1

       4 December 2015 at 9:01 pm

       Exactly! The NRA holds the USA and the Republicans in particular hostage.
   • One Two 4.2

     4 December 2015 at 9:43 pm

     When will the US Goverment declare itself a terrorist organisation

     Killed millions , maimed and abused hundreds of millions
     • Macro 4.2.1

       4 December 2015 at 9:57 pm

       Well yes – that too! 🙁
       But I was thinking in terms of their internal policies ….
       Mind you the gun barons have to make their killing.
5. AmaKiwi 5

   4 December 2015 at 7:26 pm

   to David Clark MP on NZ taxpayers gifting $2.6 million abattoir:

   I don’t know what Clark said exactly, but the NZ Herald writes: “Labour Party trade and export growth spokesperson David Clark said it was time the Government stopped pouring taxpayer money into the Saudi businessman’s pocket.”

   A despicably weak complaint. I think Clark should have said,

   “It is an abomination that National extracts $2.6 million from the poorest among us to bribe a Saudi multi-millionaire.”

   Because of GST, even the poorest New Zealander is forced to contribute to that $2.6 million. That’s what needs to be emphasized.
   • Colonial Viper 5.1

     4 December 2015 at 7:33 pm

     Agree with you that it is weaksauce, but its also typical Labour small target weaksauce. $2.6M is 1/10 of a miniscule flag referendum and less than 0.01% of the Government budget.

     So it really is a double criticism – watered down criticism of the spending of an insignificant sum.
6. ropata 6

   4 December 2015 at 8:22 pm

   New comic: Instead of me rambling, I asked some guests a question that's been bugging me. https://t.co/pLu9AMZBPH pic.twitter.com/hLuB6oZ9WJ— Toby Morris (@XTOTL) December 4, 2015
7. te reo putake 7

   4 December 2015 at 8:36 pm

   Another one gone.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHggERCJGA
   • miravox 7.1

     4 December 2015 at 8:47 pm

     Gutted.
   • maui 7.2

     4 December 2015 at 8:56 pm

     Shit, no more Velvet Revolver either.
   • BM 7.3

     4 December 2015 at 9:24 pm

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
     • te reo putake 7.3.1

       4 December 2015 at 9:28 pm

       Sister morphine might have been more apt.
       • BM 7.3.1.1

         4 December 2015 at 9:31 pm

         Probably, but that one’s a classic sign off.

         And I’ll be honest I was never a great fan.
         • te reo putake 7.3.1.1.1

           4 December 2015 at 10:13 pm

           No worries, BM. Each to their own. I’m old enough to have seen off a lot of my heroes. Strummer, Cobain, Jeffrey Lee Pierce, Lux Interior and Lou Reed for example. I can add Scott Weiland to the list now.

           And yet Don Henley lives. What gives?

           https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEet3RwQnaY
   • marty mars 7.4

     5 December 2015 at 10:45 am

     RIP brother
8. repateet 8

   4 December 2015 at 8:46 pm

   On YourNZ

   “Legal compliance notice
   Tonight I was served with a court order notice instructing me to “take down or disable material from the blog Your NZ that mentions or identified [person’s name] or [company name], or any of it’s associated companies directly or indirectly” and “introduce a full time moderator systems so that no comment that is harmful to said person is placed on the blog “Your NZ”.

   This should send a chill up the New Zealand blogosphere.”
   • weka 8.1

     4 December 2015 at 9:00 pm

     sorry but http://www.donotlink.com/ isn’t working.

     http://yournz.org/2015/12/04/fit-in-or-fuck-off/#comment-66054

     I don’t know whether to take this seriously or not.

     [Edited as per court order] / December 4, 2015

     Press release of [Edited as per court order] 4 November 2015 concerning the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015

     First Interim Injunction against unmoderated mainstream
     “bully boy blog” Your NZ.

     The Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 [HDCA], the brain child of ex Justice Minister Judith Collins, had its first test in a District Court application today with the Court granting [Edited as per court order] application for an interim injunction [CIV-2015- 004-001653] against previous Dunedin Mayoral candidate Peter Donald George, aged 60, of 9 Babsie Road, Ravensbourne, of unknown occupation.

     “Peter Georges behaviour, in abusing people, and inciting other people to come on to his blog to abuse people, and to lie, and fabricate the most serious criminal allegations against innocent persons that he nor his fellow bloggers have ever met, needed to be brought under control by the processes of justice” said Mr [Edited as per court order]

     The Courts interim ruling by District Court Judge Gary Harrison takes immediate effect as against Mr George and his blog site “Your NZ”. It provides that Mr George is restrained from mentioning the names of Mr [Edited as per court order], his employer, or any of the employers associated companies, on his blog “Your NZ”, and that Mr George is restrained from directly or indirectly communicating with Mr [Edited as per court order], or any employees of Mr [Edited as per court order]employer, or any of the companies associated with Mr [Edited as per court order]employer. The second part of the ruling is that Mr George has to, with immediate effect, remove all direct and indirect references to Mr [Edited as per court order], his employer, and any of the employers associated companies. The third and final ruling is that Mr George has to, with immediate effect, introduce a full time moderator system so that no comment that is harmful to those protected by the Courts orders, is “placed on the Blog “Your NZ”.

     “I felt that the Court understood that Mr Georges articles were fiction, fabrication, and falsehood, designed to grab readership, and incite malice, in order to harm persons inclusive of myself, and those associated with me. I took particular umbrage at an attempt by Mr George to blackmail my employer into terminating my employment, and I felt that Mr George needed to be reeled in” said Mr [Edited as per court order]

     Mr [Edited as per court order]intends to prosecute Mr George under s22 of the HDCA seeking that Mr George receives the maximum penalty for his actions. The maximum penalty for causing harm to a person is a $50,000 fine, or imprisonment for a maximum term of 2 years. Mr [Edited as per court order]believes his application and orders were the first under the new Act. In keeping with the new age of communication, and the content of the order, Mr [Edited as per court order]intends serving Mr George by posting the order on Mr Georges website, which will be, for the last time in its history, as of today unmoderated.

     “Numerous friends and associates that were reading the hateful and hurtful fabrications of Mr George have agreed to stump funds to assist me bring Mr George to justice, and that I feel that serving the Courts orders online by posting them on his blog, in his comments section, is somehow appropriate in the circumstances. I would appreciate it if my employer, who has stood by me, is not mentioned in the media” said Mr [Edited as per court order].

     Should Mr George not immediately obey the Courts orders, Mr [Edited as per court
     order]will apply to the Court to have Mr George imprisoned for contempt, and prosecuted for non- compliance which could see Mr George, if he were convicted, serve a maximum term of imprisonment of 6 months. Mr [Edited as per court order]is unsure whether Mr George could operate his blog from a prison cell.
     “Mr George has attacked the likes of Cameron Slater and other bloggers for years, when in fact it has been his behaviour that has been, by far, the worst. The statutorily enforced moderation of blog site comments should be made law in an immediate amendment to the HDCA, with the addition that the website owner is liable for any comments that are posted after moderation. If these additions were to become law, the significant expense to date will have been worth it” said Mr [Edited as per court order].

     Mr [Edited as per court order]is not available for comment.
     • Anne 8.1.1

       4 December 2015 at 9:34 pm

       “Mr George has attacked the likes of Cameron Slater and other bloggers for years, when in fact it has been his behaviour that has been, by far, the worst.

       Dear oh dear… Mr[Edited as per court order] sound like a bullying, vengeful right-wing nut job associated with Mr Cameron Slater. Irritating though he can be, I have empathy with “Mr George” on this matter. I don’t read his site so can’t comment on who Mr [etc. etc.] is.
       • te reo putake 8.1.1.1

         4 December 2015 at 10:01 pm

         “In our opinion @tereoputake a court injunction is the least of your worries.”

         A wee attempt at intimidation on twitter.
         • weka 8.1.1.1.1

           4 December 2015 at 11:26 pm

           who from?
           • te reo putake 8.1.1.1.1.1

             5 December 2015 at 7:45 am

             Lordy Findem. (I think the ‘real’ name goes into the spam trap here).

             They followed up with ‘say goodbye to all the nice people’, which I assume they hope I see as a death threat.
             • weka …

               5 December 2015 at 10:25 am

               Yes, and the first tweet looks like a threat of violence too.
               • te reo putake …

                 5 December 2015 at 10:37 am

                 Yep. I’ve seen these cowards make similar threats online, weka. When challenged, they feign innocence. eg. they would say the second one really meant ‘it was late, and we were just recommending you go to bed’.
     • ropata 8.1.2

       4 December 2015 at 11:32 pm

       looks like PG hasn’t cleaned up completely…
       http://uniformresourcelocatorelongator.com/aHR0cDovL3lvdXJuei5vcmcvdGFnL21hcmMtc3ByaW5nLw%3D%3D%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

       see also this comment at kiwiblog
       http://uniformresourcelocatorelongator.com/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5raXdpYmxvZy5jby5uei8yMDE1LzEyL2dlbmVyYWxfZGViYXRlXzRfZGVjZW1iZXJfMjAxNS5odG1sI2NvbW1lbnQtMTYyOTc0Mg%3D%3D%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
       • weka 8.1.2.1

         5 December 2015 at 12:14 am

         Well done. Lolz at the numpties. I’m almost at the point of feeling sorry for PG (unless this is a double blind to get the blogosphere to care about him 😉 ).
   • te reo putake 8.2

     4 December 2015 at 9:01 pm

     Yeah. ms, if your reading this you might want to pop over to PG’s and have a look. I thought about putting a post up, but I think there may be some issues associated with a well known NZ based racist and misogynist fantasist site.

     I may have my issues with Pete, but this is just bullying.
     • Cricklewood 8.2.1

       4 December 2015 at 9:31 pm

       Basically Petes managed to point out some uncomfortable ‘coincidences’ connecting whaleoil, the blog with the Latin name and various individuals like the brothers grimmy and a used car salesman who has apparently taken out the order.
       It appears that considerable effort has been put in in the last month or so tof manipulate a situation where such an order would be granted.
       I have never seen eye to eye with Pete George but what’s gone/going on there has ramifications for all blogs including this one and he needs support.
       • te reo putake 8.2.1.1

         4 December 2015 at 9:43 pm

         From twitter:

         Lauda Finem ‏@Laudafinem 44m44 minutes ago

         In our opinion @tereoputake a court injunction is the least of your worries.
       • te reo putake 8.2.1.2

         4 December 2015 at 9:49 pm

         From twitter:

         Lauda Finem ‏@Laudafinem 44m44 minutes ago

         In our opinion @tereoputake a court injunction is the least of your worries.

         Lauda Finem ‏@Laudafinem 5m5 minutes ago

         Say good-bye to all the lovely people @tereoputake and @Wendyjg1 – @MarcSpring @PeteDGeorge @nzherald @NewstalkZB
     • mickysavage 8.2.2

       4 December 2015 at 9:39 pm

       Yep. Pete is someone who just wants to make the world a better place. Most of the time I disagree with his proposed paths but I am convinced that he wants to improve things.
       • weka 8.2.2.1

         4 December 2015 at 11:31 pm

         He also manipulates information (does this fairly regularly about ts and associates) in order to spin in a certain direction that is pretty close to lying at times.

         I don’t agree with taking court action over that, and it’s ridiculous using the ridiculous HDCA, but it doesn’t surprise me that a someone has taken exception to PG’s paricularly practice of skewing the truth.

         That’s a separate issue from his politics and far more damaging.
     • Schofield 8.2.3

       4 December 2015 at 11:31 pm

       Yes, PeeGee was digging into the [r0b: deleted] associations, but then he made a really dumb error … he phoned [r0b: deleted] employer and insisted [r0b: deleted] be fired or his employer would start to get negative press on his blog [r0b: I believe that is an unsubstantiated alegation] … the injunction resulted from the threat to harm his employer unless they fired him … so he’s just a dumb arse LOL

       [r0b: Details deleted – really don’t want all this daft mud wrestling crossing over to this blog.]
       • weka 8.2.3.1

         5 December 2015 at 12:16 am

         Even with the deletions that’s a hefty allegation 🙁
       • lprent 8.2.3.2

         5 December 2015 at 7:59 pm

         PG’s description of the conversation is quite different.

         It is also completely out of character for him to have made those kinds of statements.

         However the allegations read exactly like the fantasies of Marc Spring (I have a number of them on file), and the bullshit that dimwit Nottingham invents when doing ‘legal’ work (distasteful stupidity). The court of appeal judgement on Cameron Slater’s ‘new evidence’ makes the latter quite plain.
9. greywarshark 9

   4 December 2015 at 9:28 pm

   The NRA holding the Statue of USA Liberty hostage. She is no longer at liberty in the name of freedom. Mad.

   There is a funny mad clip of someone being held at gunpoint in a comedy from Mel Brooks. This is the one from Blazing Saddles where the townspeople are paralysed – caught between confronting their normal racist ideas, and the scene of their black sheriff holding himself hostage. (He gets away from the gunman safely. Cleavon Little was Sheriff Bart.)

   (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
10. Pat 10

    4 December 2015 at 11:29 pm

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/climate-change-population-crisis-paris-summit
    • Grindlebottom 10.1

      4 December 2015 at 11:55 pm

      Interesting read but I think also worth reading the linked critics of the book article.
      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jul/09/stephen-emmott-population-book-misanthropic
      • Pat 10.1.1

        5 December 2015 at 7:54 am

        good counter article…..the data may be skewed and manipulated, and would also spend time confirming the counter but think the primary point of the original article is valid…..how can we (the world as represented at Paris) seriously seek to mitigate A.C.C. while similtanously ignoring population growth?
        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.1.1.1

          5 December 2015 at 2:30 pm

          Who says population growth is being ignored? Can’t they use Google properly or something?
11. ropata 11

    5 December 2015 at 12:53 am

    Another Steven Joyce rort:
    The $25 million student funding scandal

    Cunliffe is in no doubt some of the blame lies with the Government.

    “It is clear there is a system failure,” he says, pointing to the glowing Education Evaluation Reviews NZQA handed to providers later found to have gamed the system. In the case of MACT, two NZQA inspectors spent two days at the trust before reporting in August 2013 that they were “highly confident in educational performance and highly confident in capability in self-assessment”. A TEC review, commissioned just 14 months later, found multiple failings in the delivery of the two courses MACT taught, including overcharging the taxpayer $2.7 million during 2013 and 2014.

    …

    The dependence on whistle-blowers “just shows that we have got a broken monitoring system”, says Cunliffe. “It’s an honesty box system, the monitoring agents don’t conduct any audits and don’t share data. NZQA appears not to want to know about the robustness of some of the self-assessment. There are repeated examples where they have given people a reasonably clean bill of health when they have later been shown to be rorting blind.”

    Joyce insists the monitoring system is working just fine, describing it as “much more accountable” than it has ever been. “While there have been and will be some issues with individual institutions, the system is robust and delivering strong results for students.”

    But can those results be trusted? At many of the institutions reviewed by TEC the answer was: “clearly not”. Hundreds of students have had their qualifications withdrawn.

    A whistleblower who worked as a quality assurance officer at a South Island polytechnic told the Herald it was common practice to cheat external performance reviews.

    “You could fudge the moderation system. I did it plenty of times because my employers would require me to do that. You would go through and find the best samples for NZQA. There was one time I refused to do it and that was where I started getting into shit.”

    The whistleblower, who had previously worked for NZQA, is no longer in the industry. She left, she says, in disillusionment after discovering similar practices at other providers.

    After this scandal and the latest bribes to a Saudi businessman, I expect a tsunami of bullshit and distractions heading our way next week

Links to post

1. Thank The National Party for this atrocious abuse of process | TrueblueNZ: posted on 5 December 2015 at 3:28 pm
2. Offending comment was made from Giltrap! « The Standard: posted on 5 December 2015 at 8:03 pm

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS