Daily review 24/07/2023

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1. Anne 1

   24 July 2023 at 7:08 pm

   Only us oldies will remember the Colin Moyle Affair, but has anyone picked up the fallout similarities between the Allan and Moyle Affairs?

   In 1976 Colin Moyle was crucified by Muldoon (aided and abetted by the media of the day) for being picked up by the police lurking in an area of Wellington known to be a hot spot for "homosexual" activity which was illegal. He was banished to the wilderness – in part by a "press" hungry for his scalp – but some years later he returned to politics and had a successful couple of terms as a highly regarded Minister of Agriculture and related portfolios.

   It turned out he had been the victim of a set-up. This is not to suggest Allan was set up but the aftermath of both cases look like they are going to be much the same. It is not impossible that Kiri Allan will also return one day and end up having a successful political career.
   • Ad 1.1

     24 July 2023 at 7:39 pm

     Kirk didn't manage to lose 20% of his entire Cabinet inside 6 months.

     Just imagine if Colin Moyle had made speech to more than 50 RNZ staff including CEO Paul Thompson berating them for not hiring his fiance, and Prime Minister had to defend.

     Just imagine Colin Moyle had not disclosed that biggest campaign contributor was the Race Relations Commissioner. Decided not to make any conflict of interest declaration, and Prime Minister had to defend .

     Just imagine Colin Moyle brazening out any allegation of mistreatment of staff, despite a major report into Parliamentary bullying less than a year previous. No apology until coming back from leave, and Prime Minister had to defend.

     Now imagine Colin Moyle then crashes the ministerial car and resists arrest enough to be held in jail.

     If she fails to get re-elected, she will go back to being a successful commercial lawyer.

     Of course it's all identical to Colin Moyle 50 years ago. Or something.
     • Anne 1.1.1

       24 July 2023 at 8:12 pm

       For Christ's sake get yourself together. You sound demented. I'm not talking about the incident details. I made it clear I was talking about the fallout. You obviously didn't exist at the time of the Moyle Affair or you were too young to have any recollection of it. Btw, what's it got to do with Norman Kirk? He died two years before it occurred.

       Jesus Ad grow up. I had the [mis]fortune to know some things about that case which never made it in to the public arena. Show some respect for those of us who had skin in the game at a time when you may well have been no more than a glint in your father's eye…and read comments properly for a change.
       • Ad 1.1.1.1

         24 July 2023 at 8:24 pm

         Hey tough luck with your feelings there. Well done you managed to trigger yourself.

         The problem with the old wet left like you is that they are incapable of taking simple responsibility.

         It's not just time to let Kiri go.

         It's time to let this Labour government go. Like we let go of Rowling after Kirk.
         • Anne 1.1.1.1.1

           24 July 2023 at 8:45 pm

           Apart from contradicting your own claims on almost a daily basis, it seems you are also into ageism as well as misogyny and occasionally racism.
         • SPC 1.1.1.1.2

           24 July 2023 at 11:35 pm

           Stop it with the Tony Blair impersonation, there are other ways you know. There is an alternative to competing as the other centrist management option.
         • Blazer 1.1.1.1.3

           25 July 2023 at 10:14 am

           Let the Labour Govt go and embrace a rerun of 'Hatman's last Natz regime with some Scott Morrisson like religious ferver thrown in for…good measure.

           Some brighter future!
     • Peter 1.1.2

       24 July 2023 at 8:53 pm

       I get it. Allan is out of her depth, a disgrace, etc.,etc.

       Moyle was simply a victim of one of the scummiest politicians in our history who was backed by nasty, sycophantic bullies.

       They relished the slaughter of Moyle, glorified the ‘strength’ of Muldoon and piled how brilliant he was on us. No doubt some of that mob and their National off spring are putting their boot into Allan with lashings of moral superiority.
       • Anne 1.1.2.1

         24 July 2023 at 8:58 pm

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/barry-soper-jacinda-ardern-left-chris-hipkins-to-clean-up-the-mess-she-created/E4LEEHXHGVFFDO7YFO2PP5L3C4/
   • Patricia Bremner 1.2

     24 July 2023 at 7:53 pm

     We live in hope for fair treatment at the very least.
   • SPC 1.3

     24 July 2023 at 11:30 pm

     There is two sides to this

     First, the "gallery" and the form of accountability of government to the people via the media. The tendency to focus on the practice of politics, rather than the issues of governance for the good of wider society. The ultimate in continuance of the form of democratic normality continuance, in an era of a neo-liberal small government. Which could be called a transition stage towards the American style culture war populism to bed in a class order of rule. Which leads to the second

     Second, underneath the veneer of maintaining proper form there is a demonisation of politicians who proffer challenge to the neo-liberal status quo. As if those from the wrong side of civilisation (aka Tory Party at prayer), are unable to abide by the proper etiquette. As if such was more important in government than service to the peoples actual well-being.

     It's a way of saying that the establishment middle class media understands the need to keep up the appearances, as we become a two tier society, with only one half remaining part of the first world.

     How this media keeps the rentier generation pacified during a NACT government (with a large does of 1981 reprise likely before too long) is going to be something to observe.
     • Anne 1.3.1

       25 July 2023 at 10:11 am

       It's a way of saying that the establishment middle class media understands the need to keep up the appearances, as we become a two tier society, with only one half remaining part of the first world.

       
     • Drowsy M. Kram 1.3.2

       25 July 2023 at 10:22 am

       … as we become a two tier society, with only one half remaining part of the first world.

       Only up to "one half" – if NZ's (very) lucky – and the Devil take the hindmost
     • Phillip ure 1.3.3

       25 July 2023 at 12:36 pm

       Um..!..spc…do you know what rentier class means..?

       It's another word for the landlord class…

       Not their victims…
       • SPC 1.3.3.1

         25 July 2023 at 6:18 pm

         Sure, it's been used that way internationally for many decades – but not for landlords per se, but as a concept of earnings by ownership rather than labour/skilled worker production. It includes nations who earn money by resources (Gulf states as per oil, or by wealth fund or even us – pastoral, horticulture, fishing, forestry).

         But locally we use the term, generation rent.

         I could have used that, but was looking for a word to explain the class division that occurs when children of those who did not own property and the children of those who did own property see each other as quite separated groups in the one nation (state schools in rent rental estates or private schools/schools in high value property ownership zones).

         Thus one favours less tax on income (so they can afford rents) and some tax revenue from CG, wealth and estate taxation and the other is quite happy for New Zealand to be the only one in the OECD without a CGT and part of the 1/3rd without any estate tax or wealth tax.

         So how to identify our quite unique circumstance as a first world nation of a decline to one with the emergence of a generation rent precariat (the Fair Pay Agreement was designed to stop the precariat part of this, but is rejected by NACT), the decline back into a society where there is a precariat working class locked out of property ownership?

         https://www.oecd.org/naec/The_Precariat_under_Rentier_Capitalism_NAEC%209_Mar_17.pdf
2. arkie 2

   24 July 2023 at 7:52 pm

   Robbie Nicol has released a video about the history of ACC. It is informative, amusing and hopeful:

   Duration: 12 minutes
3. Corey 3

   24 July 2023 at 7:52 pm

   It's hard to compare being picked up by police in a gay crusing area vs a justice minister resisting arrest and resisting to accompany police to a station for a drug an alcohol test after crashing a car.

   Her career is over, she was unlikely to win her electorate and she's unlikely to secure a high list ranking, there's 62 mps in labours caucus, why should Kiri or Michael wood get higher list rankings than the 59 other MPs who have been quiet and got on with the job.

   I doubt she'll have much love in the wider labour party after today, I like her but she is a liability, five weeks out from dissolution of parliament and she pulls this when we are starting down the most right wing govt we've had since Ruth Richardson.

   I wish her well but financially, she'll be sweet as, she's been a minister for four years. I'm terrified of the damage a national and act govt will do to poor kiwis, damage to which labour and it's caucus are both oblivious and uninterested in.

   The left are in the fight of our lives labour from the leadership down to the back bench are sleepwalking.
   • weka 3.1

     24 July 2023 at 8:11 pm

     tend to agree. She will be fine if she can sort her shit out, but her career isn't the priority atm.

     Have Labour not done their list rankings yet?
     • Belladonna 3.1.1

       24 July 2023 at 10:27 pm

       Have Labour not done their list rankings yet?

       I don't think so – I've not seen any publicity of it.

       It may have been decided, and they've just been waiting for a good opportunity to release it (i.e. it keeps getting gazumped by other issues)

       Happy to be corrected if it has been relased, and I've just not found it.
     • Craig H 3.1.2

       24 July 2023 at 10:58 pm

       Not yet, will be available online (on the Labour website) when it comes out along with bios of all the candidates.
   • Anne 3.2

     24 July 2023 at 8:22 pm

     I'm talking about the similarities in the way they were – and are being – handled by the media and elsewhere. The furore both cases engendered are remarkably similar. The furore over Moyle went on for a year or more. I suspect the Allan case will be raging for some time too.

     And no weka. I understand they are doing the list rankings next week-end.
     • Francesca 3.2.1

       24 July 2023 at 9:19 pm

       The lack of empathy reminds me of the way everyone piled on Metiria years ago .Must be nice to be so morally correct
       • Anne 3.2.1.1

         24 July 2023 at 9:25 pm

         
       • Visubversa 3.2.1.2

         25 July 2023 at 8:39 am

         If Metiria and the Green Party had possessed any political smarts they would have had Ann Hartley (the child's paternal grandmother) standing up with her when she made her confession of benefit fraud. The Hartleys would have given their last cent to their first grandchild. If Ann had been there and supported Metiria the focus would have been on the punitive clawbacks which nullified any material support.

         Every Journo in the country knew the connection with the Hartleys – Ann and Metiria were both in Parliament together at one stage.

         Instead – Metiria totally blindsided them, the Press pack knew the connection – which lead to the Electoral fraud allegation through the house in New Bond St which the Hartleys had owned and had bought for Metiria and Paul to live in.

         The Press pursued the Hartley family relentlessly, even hiring a helicopter to follow them to Great Barrier Island where they have a beach house.

         Eventually a family friend told the whole story to John Campbell and the rest was history.

         Just appallingly bad political management.
         • Francesca 3.2.1.2.1

           25 July 2023 at 10:34 am

           Most of the bad management can be described as a woeful underestimation of how petty, mean and vengeful the media pack(and possibly a population brought up on Rogernomics) had become.Everyone was out to get the scoop, to be the first to raise the bloodied scalp of Metiria Turei.

           John Campbell won and the rest scavenged what remained.

           Ill never forget the hypocritical expressions of disgust as one by one every broadcaster and public person felt compelled to put the boot in .Gladiatorial justice.

           Compare the double dipper from Dipton , with all his wealth and backing,lying about where he lived, claiming accommodation to the tune of 1000 a week that he wasn't entitled to , was he pursued by the baying crowd? Did John Campbell deliver the coup de grace?

           https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/09-08-2017/the-sins-of-metiria-bill-and-john-sense-checking-the-fact-checkers

           String them up the GP for not knowing how to play the game in all its hypocritical and cynical ways
           And as a feminist I would never have condemned Metiria to being a paid up appendage to the Hartley family , depending on their largesse
         • weka 3.2.1.2.2

           25 July 2023 at 10:47 am

           Would Ann Hartley have done a press conference with MT after the speech?

           Eventually a family friend told the whole story to John Campbell and the rest was history.

           Why did they do that?
           • Belladonna 3.2.1.2.2.1

             25 July 2023 at 10:53 am

             I don't know. But the narrative being presented was that the Hartleys would (and did) leave their grandchild to starve. Which was entirely untrue.
             I don't know if Turei thought this aspect through, before launching her speech.

             The temptation for the family to set the record straight was very strong.
             • weka …

               25 July 2023 at 10:58 am

               But the narrative being presented was that the Hartleys would (and did) leave their grandchild to starve.

               Because that's a statement that both involves party policy and individuals, can you please provide some evidence for this?
               • Belladonna …

                 25 July 2023 at 11:10 am

                 Fairly widely reported at the time (Italics mine, below)

                 In a comment piece for the Guardian last month Turei wrote that she committed benefit fraud over three years in the early 1990s because it was her only way to get by as a solo-parent in New Zealand with no formal educational qualifications.

                 “I did not have enough money to pay the rent and put food on the table. And so, like many – but not all – people faced with that choice, I lied to survive,” Turei wrote.

                 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/09/new-zealand-green-party-leader-metiria-turei-resigns-lied-to-claim-benefits

                 The implication, taken from this, is that she was given no support from her child's grandparents. When, actually, they'd provided a house (referenced by another commentator), and a lot of other support (as you would, for your grandchild).

                 “The Green Party co-leader quit on Wednesday afternoon following allegations from a "close family member" who challenged the MPs' claims she committed benefit fraud because needed the domestic purposes benefit when she was at law school and raising her daughter Piupiu.

                 The allegations were put to Turei by RNZ Checkpoint who said a family member told them the extended family found Turei's comments about the hardships she faced in her 20s and her benefit fraud "galling".”

                 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/95624422/metiria-turei-says-support-from-her-childs-grandparents-wasnt-financial
                 • weka …

                   25 July 2023 at 11:39 am

                   I'm sure they did find it galling. Which is why I asked if Ann Hartely would really have fronted a press conference in support of MT.

                   But the bit you quote doesn't say that Turei said the Hartley's left their grandchild to starve. It says she was on a benefit which meant she was living under the poverty line. Are you saying she lied?

                   I can tell you categorically that my upper middle class family doesn't understand the true reality of my life as a beneficiary despite them sometimes helping me in different ways. There are lots of reasons why that happens when someone in the underclass has middle class relatives. It's complex.
                   • weka …

                     25 July 2023 at 11:40 am

                     it's so interesting that some people take the insult to the Hartleys to more relevant than the fact that people on a benefit live below the poverty line.
                   • Belladonna …

                     25 July 2023 at 11:52 am

                     "“I did not have enough money to pay the rent and put food on the table."

                     Implication that the support from the Hartleys was either inadequate or non-existent.

                     Which, it turns out, was not true.

                     MT could have framed this in another way entirely "Any declared financial support provided from my child's family would have been rebated away to WINZ. I was forced to hide this support from WINZ, by lying to them. "
                   • weka []

                     25 July 2023 at 12:49 pm

                     Which, it turns out, was not true.

                     This seems to be saying that Turei lied. Do you have any evidence for that? That she never had trouble paying rent or feeding her kids?

                     I already explained how it’s possible for a beneficiary to have a middle class family that offers some support and for the beneficiary to still struggle financially.
                   • Belladonna …

                     25 July 2023 at 1:48 pm

                     MT's story evolved multiple times, as more and more evidence was uncovered. Culminating in a Checkpoint interview, where she was about to be confronted with a counter-narrative detailing the support she had actually been provided. At which point she resigned.

                     I don't have any evidence that MT was ever unable to feed her child – but neither do you, that this was the case.

                     I find MT's unsupported statement … unconvincing … in the light of the other information which was uncovered.

                     Do I think she lied? I think that she interpreted the facts to suit the narrative she wanted to present. And was, I'm sure, horrified, that the media didn't take her word, and went trawling for corroboratory evidence.
                   • weka []

                     25 July 2023 at 3:38 pm

                     ok, so you essential think Turei was lying and that this explains the discrepancy between her story and what her inlaws said.

                     I can’t see the advantage to Turei or the Greens in lying about this. If she never had a hard time on a benefit, she could easily have told the story about how lucky she was and pointed to the people who aren’t.

                     I don’t have any evidence that MT was ever unable to feed her child – but neither do you, that this was the case.

                     The same could be said about her inlaws. I’m saying both versions can be true at teh same time and I’ve already explained how. You are ignoring this.
                   • Belladonna …

                     25 July 2023 at 3:50 pm

                     So, if both stories could be true – then why would the Hartleys find MT's story "galling"?

                     I think it much more likely that the stories were in fundamental conflict.

                     You clearly believe MT. I clearly find her less than truthful.

                     No further point in debate – the views are irreconcilable.
   • Charlotte Rust 3.3

     25 July 2023 at 7:58 am

     I agree, the personalities that have left recently all seem to have ego issues and no regard for their supporters. Sure the opposition and media crowing hasn’t helped but they all just seemed to have willingly stepped into the giant sinkhole created for them.
4. joe90 4

   24 July 2023 at 8:28 pm

   A bee story for the bombus subterraneus fans.

   The Bee Guy

   @the_beeguy

   Mornin’ folks. We’ve had a lot of people enquiring about and commenting on #bumblebees asleep on #flowers, especially at this time of year, so here’s a quick (long)thread explaining what’s going on. Please retweet so more are more informed. Thanks good people. #bees 1/16

   https://twitter.com/the_beeguy/status/1682697317311283200

   https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1682697317311283200.html

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