Day of Action

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1. Jim Nald 1

   12 July 2012 at 12:11 pm

   Come well dressed for the weather – come rain, hail or snow!
2. alex 2

   12 July 2012 at 1:40 pm

   Just on that Wellington one, the Greens will have people out collecting signatures around Cuba from 12-2, so great news that there is going to be more action from 2 oclock onwards.
   • mickysavage 2.1

     12 July 2012 at 8:53 pm

     Young Labour in Wellington have been mining Cuba Street for months.  I suspect they may have collected most of the potential signatures there already.  I was down there for a weekend and got waylaid by Rory McCourt who is an absolute star.

     But the Greens should also give it a go. 
     • alex 2.1.1

       12 July 2012 at 10:31 pm

       What we’ve found is that turnover of people in a static spot is fairly frequent, so while there is a lot of merit in moving around a wider area, like a province, there is also a lot of merit in trying to talk to people going to the same area. Chances are there will always be new people coming through who want to sign the petition.
       Having said that, last weekend in Otaki and Paekakariki there was hardly anyone who has signed the petition, which made it really easy. I was at the football field in Paekakariki and it was literally a case of passing it along a row of spectators. It was great because it meant I could watch the very tense and surprisingly highly skilled match.
     • Fortran 2.1.2

       13 July 2012 at 2:13 pm

       I’m told by a Cuba Street worker that she has been approached by a number of people in the area and she has signed them all to kep them quiet and let her get to work and home.
       • bbfloyd 2.1.2.1

         13 July 2012 at 5:00 pm

         Liar…. all she needed to do was say she’d already signed….. surely that would take less time than having to put pen to paper…. which means you are making this up…

         Quite apart from the fact that she apparently didn’t think about the fact that knowingly signing the same petition several times is pointless….and could be deemed mischeivious…. a fact the petition organisers would know very well, so wouldn’t be interested in getting repeat signatures….

         The rubbish you tory knuckleheads spout sometimes is quite laughable….. what’s the matter? havn’t got a real argument?
       • Reality Bytes 2.1.2.2

         13 July 2012 at 8:23 pm

         When I am too busy and a random petitioner/surveyor/charity worker rocks up and starts shooting the breeze and get me to sign up… I just simply tell them I am to busy.

         Which is the simple truth. No offence to these folks, I am happy with my charity/signatory contributions. I see brushing them off as actually useful to their ultimate cause since it frees up time for them to win over on undecideds to assist their cause.

         Sounds a bit convoluted, but if you are genuine and express that kind of view, I think the good folks appreciate it.

         For political things I thank the volunteers for getting people thinking/talking, but say I support something slightly different so cannot provide my signature.
3. Mark 3

   12 July 2012 at 1:53 pm

   “the Greens will have people out collecting signatures”
   They would be the paid ones right, making a bit of a joke about the greens line that they couldn’t afford to fund technology for a deaf MP.
   Also making a mockery of a Citizens Initiated Referendum.
   A mockery of democracy, by groups that still fail to accept an election result, even under their treasured MMP.
   The part privatisation will go ahead, to the benefit of all Kiwis.
   Get over it, rather than try to damage the sale process and minimise the proceeds for schoolkids, people who want to work etc.
   Treason by the dishonest Left, again, destined to fail the needy, again.
   Losers
   • Kotahi Tane Huna 3.1

     12 July 2012 at 1:59 pm

     What a dickhead. The sale of stolen property will benefit no-one. In light of that, I think the rise in power bills should be confiscated from share owners, and paid back.

     The sale – if it ever goes ahead -will be a trainwreck, another Quisling betrayal by the bought party. No compensation should be paid when we repossess our stolen property.

     The Greens are doing a great job, good on them for using their money to strengthen democracy.
   • Dr Terry 3.2

     12 July 2012 at 2:08 pm

     Mark, it is very hard to believe it, but unfortunately people like you actually exist.
     • Mark 3.2.1

       12 July 2012 at 5:27 pm

       Thanks for your incisive comment “Dr”
       I am assuming that title is due to many years of rigorous study and examination, either paid for by the rest of us, or possibly you with majority assistance by hard working people.
       If that’s all you can come up with, there has been a whole lot of theft going on, and I sincerely hope, but doubt, that it was your money.
       • McFlock 3.2.1.1

         12 July 2012 at 5:38 pm

         Right. Like you’re a great contributor to the nation. Any individual tax revenue would be more than outweighed by the self-absorbed moral bankruptcy you display.
         • Mark 3.2.1.1.1

           12 July 2012 at 6:07 pm

           My contribution to the nation?
           Well, a fair bit of tax for a start..Personally I’m more proud of my record in encouraging/training/employing blue collar workers, sending them home safe, happy, paid for their efforts, developing rather than suppressing them, supporting a hand up rather than a hand out.
           I also maintain a low carbon footprint, volunteer with boys that don’t have dads in their lives, keep myself healthy so as not to burden the health system, keep myself safe so as not to burden ACC, keep myself away from the police and justice system, teach my kids to be good citizens, support their schools.
           Nothing special, just what everyone is able to do, as long as they aren’t told how oppressed and disadvantaged they are.
           You?
           • McFlock 3.2.1.1.1.1

             12 July 2012 at 6:20 pm

             Jobs&hobbies:
             Workplace safety.
             Public safety.
             Public health.
             Donate to charities.
             Pat puppies.
                      
             Of course, all that “hand up not a hand out” stuff hides an awful lot of victim blaming, so you lose points for that. As well as being a hypocrite –  contrast sentences 3 & 4 here. And then there’s the public vs private good debate regarding your health and helping out your own kids’ schools.  
             • Mark …

               12 July 2012 at 6:32 pm

               No victim blaming here, but I sure as hell blame victim creators.
               But I’ll leave you all to self congratulate on some perceived moral high ground.
               What a fucking joke, and this so called debate is proof enough that most of NZ is on the right track.
               Luckily we are magnanimous enough to defend your right to state your misguided and dangerous opinions, but intellectually what a disappointment you all are.
               • McFlock …

                 12 July 2012 at 6:35 pm

                 You’re the one who called a pseudonymous doctorate “theft”. I’m sorry I forgot that the sun shines out your arse.
           • prism 3.2.1.1.1.2

             12 July 2012 at 9:09 pm

             Mark You aren’t healthy and fit – you display the unmistakeable symptoms of being a smeghead, a fathead, a smug, self-centred superior person. You’ve got a biblical name maybe you are descended from the original St Mark. The man of nonpareil. You aren’t the only person putting great effort into life, and trying to comply with regulations and guidelines, and pay tax. Come down off your high horse.
       • Georgecom 3.2.1.2

         12 July 2012 at 9:20 pm

         Mark, in case you think otherwise, taxation is not theft.
   • toad 3.3

     12 July 2012 at 2:57 pm

     The Greens never said they couldn’t afford to fund the support services and equipment necessary to enable Mojo Mathers’ to do her job as an MP. That was a lie, instigated by none other than the Prime Minister.

     What the Greens actually said was that the funds necessary to support Mojo in being an effective MP should not, in principle, come from her personal office budget or from the Greens’ Leaders budget, because a Party should not be financially disadvantaged with regard to what those budgets are intended to be spent on, because one or more of its MPs happen to have a disability.
     • Mark 3.3.1

       12 July 2012 at 5:44 pm

       Still waiting for the evidence of that lie instigated by the Prime Minister Toad…
       • McFlock 3.3.1.1

         12 July 2012 at 5:49 pm

         Here.
                
         The actual quote linked to the source.
                      
         In a reply to the comment where you asked for it. 
              
          
         • Mark 3.3.1.1.1

           12 July 2012 at 6:23 pm

           This is too easy, exposing the lack of intelligence and morality at The Standard. I’m going to talk to my cats for a while, they too want someone else to look after them, but at least they are honest, and show more intelligence than you lot.
   • alex 3.4

     12 July 2012 at 3:40 pm

     Hi Mark
     Actually, no, it will be an all volunteer effort. The paid collectors have finished working. If the referendum happens from here, it will be on the back of voluntary efforts.
     And if you want to talk about a mockery of the democratic process, then how about we discuss the fact that National know their policy of partial privatisation is overwhelmingly unpopular, and yet they refuse to listen to what the country is clearly saying.
     • Mark 3.4.1

       12 July 2012 at 5:08 pm

       Hi Alex
       Thanks for that and I am pleased that it will be a voluntary effort.
       It is also a rare pleasure to engage with a commentator here who doesn’t resort to personal abuse when differing viewpoints are offered.
       However, I feel your comment regarding “a mockery of the democratic process” is disingenuous, if not dishonest.
       Our democratic system is based on a parliamentary term, and in particular the last election was largely fought on Partial Privatisation, with the National Govt winning na almost unprecedented share of the vote.
       Current polls as I understand continue to show majority support for the Govt and partners, and overwhelming endorsement of John Key, who is the public face of the policy.
       Some polls show an underwhelming majority of voters are against the policy, however the country doesn’t, and is unable to operate on a yay or nay type vote per legislative bill, even if it is desirable.
       CIR’ and polls themselves are very open to wording and interpretation, which is why everybody has their chance in an electoral campaign to offer broader policies and intended direction (despite stickergate), as this Govt clearly signalled.
       I guess we could run a poll asking ” do Maori own rain from the sky” which is clearly irrelevant and devisive, but I’m sure we would get a majority “no” response.
       • mike e 3.4.1.1

         12 July 2012 at 5:28 pm

         Mark they have never said that own the rain.
         Your argument doesn’t exist.
         • Mark 3.4.1.1.1

           12 July 2012 at 5:42 pm

           My apologies, but where is the demarcation line?.. I thought that rain filled rivers.. must be my RWNJ racist thinking.
           FFS, for a bunch of self stated intellectual superiors, there is a very telling lack of reasoned argument here.
           • Jackal 3.4.1.1.1.1

             12 July 2012 at 8:57 pm

             Which would improve immensely if you left Mark.
           • gobsmacked 3.4.1.1.1.2

             12 July 2012 at 8:59 pm

             @Mark

             Democracy means National have the numbers to pass legislation.

             Freedom means people are entitled to campaign against that legislation.

             In 1999, Labour, the Alliance and the Greens all campaigned on a policy of increasing the top rate of income tax.

             After the election, they had the numbers in Parliament, so they did it. The Right (inside and outside Parliament) opposed it.

             In the face of this “mandate” (as you would call it) for the government policy, the National.ACT opposition did not remain silent. And why should they?

             A healthy democracy is not just going into a polling booth once every three years, ticking a box, and then going home to the couch. If you are for or against something, you are free to say so. Loud and clear. At any time.

             When we stop challenging governments (in legitimate, peaceful protest – such as petitions) … then you should start worrying about democracy.
4. Mark 4

   12 July 2012 at 2:10 pm

   Their money?? Taxpayer money, in fact stolen money from those earning over $60K or so(rich pricks?) as if you are under that level generally you are not a taxpayer at all.
   Stolen property?
   Rise in power bills? 70% under the last Labour Government, something like 17% under this one.
   The cheapest 25 Power Companies are either private or council owned(1)
   But don’t let facts get in the way of blind ideology will you.
   Traitors
   • Kotahi Tane Huna 4.1

     12 July 2012 at 3:53 pm

     Taxation isn’t theft, it’s the fee you pay for the privilege of living in a stable governed society. All but the selfish and ungrateful are proud to contribute, because no-one got rich on his own. Amazing how Tories can never seem to grasp that, after all it’s not rocket science.

     Pitiful slogans aside, what was your point again?

     “Cheapest” power company prices? Link or you’re full of it.

     And yes, stolen is an apt phrase – all the justifications for the sale are lies, and in any other context that’s called fraud – but abysmal corruption is all I have come to expect from this government, from John Key’s sale of NZ legislation to John Banks’ sale of John Banks.
     • higherstandard 4.1.1

       12 July 2012 at 4:31 pm

       “Taxation isn’t theft, it’s the fee you pay for the privilege of living in a stable governed society. All but the selfish and ungrateful are proud to contribute, because no-one got rich on his own. Amazing how Tories can never seem to grasp that, after all it’s not rocket science.”

       What about those that don’t pay this ‘fee’ ?

       Are they selfish and ungrateful ?
       • Kotahi Tane Huna 4.1.1.1

         12 July 2012 at 4:42 pm

         Those who don’t pay? Are we talking about those who can but don’t or those who can’t?
         • fender 4.1.1.1.1

           12 July 2012 at 4:53 pm

           Mark must be talking about the people who never pay GST.
         • higherstandard 4.1.1.1.2

           12 July 2012 at 5:15 pm

           I thought you said that taxation is the fee that is paid for the privilege of living in a stable governed society- surely that should be paid by all in some way ?
           • McFlock 4.1.1.1.2.1

             12 July 2012 at 5:23 pm

             Is it not?
              
             • higherstandard …

               12 July 2012 at 5:28 pm

               Is it ?
               • McFlock …

                 12 July 2012 at 5:33 pm

                 Well, it’s what the IRD are paid to sort out. Any evidence they’re cocking up spectacularly in a Brazilian-tax-evasion” sort of way?
                 • higherstandard …

                   12 July 2012 at 5:38 pm

                   I don’t think the IRD is tasked to sort out that a fee is paid for the privilege of living in a stable governed society by all in some way.

                   Perhaps to be more clear I should have said that if a fee is to be paid for the privilege of living in a stable governed society by all, the surely those who are not paying said “fee” due to financial poverty have a duty to ‘pay’ the fee in another way ?
                   • McFlock …

                     12 July 2012 at 5:46 pm

                     They do. They live in poverty.
                   • mike e …

                     12 July 2012 at 6:26 pm

                     Lowerstandard And the super rich well off who don’t pay any thing or around 7% that the very wealthy only pay they get a knighthood while those living in poverty 8 billion per year drag on the economy they still pay GST Keep filthy rich slum landlords who don’t pay fuck all tax earning plenty.
                     With out the welfare state we would be like Argentina circa1997 when the IMF took over their economy got rid of all state assistance and the pension.
                     Unemployment went from 6% to 38% overnight.
                     80year pensioners were grovaling around digging out grass roots etc to stay alive.
                     Nostandard show me one Conservative govt in this world that is growing in this world.
                     Do a little research before spewing out your redneck Bullshit.
                     Even Jenny Shipley said that we are lucky to have a strong welfare state to keep our economy ticking over in a recession one created then by austerity driven drongo double dipping dipshit from dipton.
                 • higherstandard …

                   12 July 2012 at 6:29 pm

                   Mike E

                   What redneck bullshit am I spouting ?
                   • mike e …

                     12 July 2012 at 7:55 pm

                     Bullying the weakest your a redneck hero lowering the standard.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 8:01 pm

                     Can you please attempt to write in an intelligible manner.
                   • Colonial Viper …

                     14 July 2012 at 2:36 pm

                     HS you frakking dick

                     The wealthy benefit most by far from the structures of this crony capitalist society, and they should pay the most BY FAR
           • Kotahi Tane Huna 4.1.1.1.2.2

             12 July 2012 at 6:26 pm

             HS are you arguing that? Hard to tell with all this “surely” and “should”.
             • higherstandard …

               12 July 2012 at 6:30 pm

               What you think I’m arguing ?
               • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                 12 July 2012 at 6:38 pm

                 “….that should be paid by all in some way ?”

                 Like GST, as per Fender’s example.
                 • higherstandard …

                   12 July 2012 at 7:21 pm

                   Yes GST is paid for by all, but what if that GST is paid for from money paid to one from the taxpayer in the first place is that really a suitable enough fee to pay for the privilege of living in a stable governed society……… as you said above…………all but the selfish and ungrateful are proud to contribute
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 7:41 pm

                     Yes, it is. Naturally the biggest beneficiaries pay the highest tax rates.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 8:00 pm

                     So for those who are living off the state and having their ‘fee’ paid for them in relation to the privilege of living in a stable governed society, do you think they have any responsibilities to society for having that ‘fee’ paid for them ?
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 8:33 pm

                     “Living off the State” – everyone “lives off the state”. The greater the benefit derived, the greater the responsibility. Instead of asking vague questions why don’t you outline what you think those responsibilities are.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 8:50 pm

                     “Living off the State” – everyone “lives off the state”.

                     Yes quite so.

                     ..and I agree with your view that ‘Taxation isn’t theft, it’s the fee you pay for the privilege of living in a stable governed society.’ Although I would add to that it’s the fee one pays for the privilege of having access to a variety of publicly funded services and amenities.

                     What I am asking is whether you believe that everyone (able bodied adults that is) should pay a “fee” be it monetary or in the form of other responsibilities for the privilege of living in a stable governed society or should that “fee” be reserved only for those adults earning income above a certain level ?
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 8:56 pm

                     Define what you think those responsibilities are. “Should” means nothing.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 9:18 pm

                     No, how about you answer my question first.

                     Do you think only those adults earning above a certain level have responsibilities in relation to enjoying the benefit of living in our society ?

                     My opinion is that all able bodied adults have responsibilities in relation to enjoying the benefit of living in NZ.
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 9:20 pm

                     Thanks for answering my question.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 9:34 pm

                     No problem.

                     What’s your view ?
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 9:48 pm

                     Power confers responsibility. Powerlessness not so much. You mention the “able-bodied” – there are also the “able-minded”, but what of the current situation – where a feeble-minded government is actively pursuing policies that destroy wealth and create poverty – with the apparent witless complaisance of the electorate?

                     It is futile to pretend that the unemployed, for example, are the architects of their own misfortune, when the government swells their ranks every day.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 10:00 pm

                     Come on – cut the party political broadcast and just answer the question as an just another anonymous commenter on a blog. Whether or not one is the architect of their own misfortune, do you think only those adults earning above a certain level have responsibilities in relation to enjoying the benefit of living in our society ?

                     Or do you agree with my view that all able bodied adults have responsibilities in relation to enjoying the benefit of living in NZ ?
                   • Kotahi Tane Huna …

                     12 July 2012 at 10:10 pm

                     The responsibilities change from circumstance to circumstance. I do not believe they are universal, but nor do I believe that only those earning above a certain level are subject to them.

                     I also think that “responsibility” is a very distorting lens. Inequality breeds violence – the more equal the society, the less violent it is. Who is “responsible” for that?
                   • McFlock …

                     12 July 2012 at 10:18 pm

                     Or do you agree with my view that all able bodied adults have responsibilities in relation to enjoying the benefit of living in NZ ?

                     So your view is that something that an adult does, or fails do do, should result in them either not being alive or not being in NZ?
                           
                     With the exception of the current deportation protocols for non-citizens, it seems an odd proposition.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 10:26 pm

                     Mc F

                     “So your view is that something that an adult does, or fails do do, should result in them either not being alive or not being in NZ?”

                     No – not sure how you arrived at that conclusion ?

                     KTH

                     “The responsibilities change from circumstance to circumstance. I do not believe they are universal, but nor do I believe that only those earning above a certain level are subject to them.”

                     Fair enough.
                   • McFlock …

                     12 July 2012 at 10:28 pm

                     Lol
                        
                     Just pointing out that if someone is not getting the “benefits of living in NZ”, either the ‘living’ or the ‘NZ’ goes out the window 🙂
             • mike e …

               12 July 2012 at 8:06 pm

               Lowering the standard your right wing Government has just put another 2,000″people”
               on the unemployment benefit last month.
               Brighter future yeah right getting 20,000 of the benefit in four years utter BS.
               Your a bullying redneck.
               If you had any brains you would be complaining that Austerity does not work
               and you would stop being a jerk.
               • higherstandard …

                 12 July 2012 at 8:15 pm

                 They are no more my government than they are your government.

                 How am I a bullying redneck ?
                 • Jackal …

                   12 July 2012 at 8:51 pm

                   By implying that beneficiaries should be more socially responsible for one thing.

                   Why should somebody who finds themselves in a situation usually not of their own making feel beholden to the government? Surely those who are doing well should be more socially responsible… They’ve often had the privilege of a good education for instance, which the poor can no longer afford.

                   The people who society has essentially failed and forgotten should not have any additional conditions placed on their already difficult lives just because they get a few peanuts to survive on… Only a bully and a redneck would think otherwise.
                   • higherstandard …

                     12 July 2012 at 9:10 pm

                     How am I implying that beneficiaries should be more socially responsible Todd ?

                     For the avoidance of doubt I believe everyone has the same responsibility to be socially responsible.

                     “The people who society has essentially failed and forgotten should not have any additional conditions placed on their already difficult lives just because they get a few peanuts to survive on… Only a bully and a redneck would think otherwise”

                     This is just rubbish Todd – society has neither failed nor forgotten this people – after all they are registered as beneficiaries due to receiving a benefit. They also like the rest of us receive the benefits or the taxation gathered by the government of the day for such services as healthcare, education, etc.
               • mike e …

                 12 July 2012 at 9:04 pm

                 A poor tax HS.
                 Make them work for the Dole thats been proven to be an expensive failure like the boot camps.
                 Narcissistic nutcase is how i would describe you.
                 Creating jobs by investing in innovation no luck with the neo conman Key.
                 Nactional has cut R&D to shreds replaced and undermined years of research to merely balance budgets beaned brained bean counters.
                 • higherstandard …

                   12 July 2012 at 9:13 pm

                   I haven’t mentioned a poor tax mike, nor have I suggested a work for the dole scheme.
               • mike e …

                 12 July 2012 at 10:38 pm

                 well HS just being a pedantic troll again I see.
                 Jobs is what most unemployed would like.I see a lot of people on the frontline in my job and they are just looking for a job its very hard out there if you just got off you high horse and pulled your head out of its arse you might see the other side of the story.
                 I looked on the internet in the last 2 days on what jobs are available in otago maybe just 12 jobs that 90% of unemployed would be able to do.
                 thats not going to change any time soon.
                 so you are just trolling
                 looking to bully
                 trying to wind people up
                 If your so wealthy and have time on your hands how about doing some of your trickle down economics and creating a whole lot of jobs.
                 instead of pissing on the poor from a great hight
                 • higherstandard …

                   12 July 2012 at 11:09 pm

                   You have a frontline job ?

                   Dealing with people ?

                   Good Lord
     • Mark 4.1.2

       12 July 2012 at 5:36 pm

       Apologies, my figures were wrong. This from Hansard, I have not verified it myself, however I am sure if it was incorrect it would also be on the record.

       ” Secondly, we would like to remind the Leader of the Opposition that under Labour, power prices went up 72 percent; under National they have gone up 14 percent. I also refer the member to the Powerswitch website, which shows a couple of things. Firstly, of the 21 companies that are listed, the 14 cheapest are actually privately held companies, and the 15th is a council-owned company. The advice I have had is that from May 2011 to April 2012, 422,256 customers have changed electricity retailers, which shows that under a National Government there has been a great desire to see choice and efficiency in the market”

       Current indications are that maybe 15% of the SOE shares will be foreign held. Which means that around 85% will be held by The State, Iwi, NZ Superfund, Kiwisaver funds, or Kiwis.
       But look, run, the sky is falling in.
       • McFlock 4.1.2.1

         12 July 2012 at 5:42 pm

         Got any, like, actual links so we can check your figures this time?
            
         And I love your faith in John Key not massaging data in anyway to score political points… 
         • Carol 4.1.2.1.1

           12 July 2012 at 5:50 pm

           It’s Blinglish & Heatley versus Molly Mellish:

           http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/213960/power-price-warning-over-asset-sales

           The Opposition has cited figures prepared by independent energy analyst Molly Melhuish suggesting private companies charged 13 per cent more for electricity than their SOE counterparts as evidence prices will rise under partial private ownership.

           Energy and Resources Minister Phil Heatley challenged Mrs Melhuish’s figures, saying she had not included all underlying factors such as the geographical distribution of power companies’ customers, differing line charges and seasonal variations.

           Part of Blinglish’s argument is that Kiwis are smart enough to switch to lower priced power companies.
           • Mark 4.1.2.1.1.1

             12 July 2012 at 6:18 pm

             Part of the left’s argument is that Kiwis are stupid, except for the elite left of course.
             Most of the Right’s argument is that Kiwis are smart and resourceful enough, with some encouragement (that no one except the left begrudges) to get up and improve their lot.
             Worse, criminally, is that the left have a vested interest in suppressing the lower socio-economic groups, as history has shown.
             • McFlock …

               12 July 2012 at 6:33 pm

               that’s the nat spin, according to the odt link.
                      
               Of course, the fact that  Melhuish  used official data, and that Cosgrove tabled supporting data based on may 2012 figures, would suggest that the initial premise is correct.
                    
               Damned “Left”, using the real world to prove its point… 
             • Colonial Viper …

               12 July 2012 at 7:51 pm

               Most of the Right’s argument is that Kiwis are smart and resourceful enough, with some encouragement (that no one except the left begrudges) to get up and improve their lot.

               That must be why the Right tries to shut down public broadcasting, defund public schools, make it harder to attend university, cut summer jobs for post grads, give the bulk of tax cuts to the very wealthy and hand private government no-bid contracts to their select group of mates.
       • mike e 4.1.2.2

         12 July 2012 at 5:51 pm

         Mark twhiner King Dick our longest serving PM ever broke up the large run holders, brought in state house and Widows pensions and pensions as well which gave a huge boost to our economy by spreading wealth around.
         When you look ta the economic history of New Zealand there has always more economic growth in our economy when left wing govts are in power.
         Statistics NZ has inflation adjusted figures going right back to the early 1900’s.
         Even the rich do better under the left because the poor spend their income on products and services the rich make and provide .
         So having your tax cuts under Nactional doesn’t mean you are going to be better off if the pie is smaller.
   • mike e 4.2

     12 July 2012 at 5:41 pm

     Mark people earning higher incomes are able to avoid taxes easier than wage and salary earners who have to pay whether they like to or not.Capital gaingsters pay nothing drive round in flash cars live in flash suburbs take their kids to flash schools and thumb their noses at the rest of us.
     This is a democracy and who people vote for determines how much we invest in our economy.
     Conservative economics always leads to recessions.Con being the operative word.
     The Guardian weekly has an excerpt On the comparison between Japanese economy and the British economy.
     Their conclusion is Conservative book balancing economics is wrecking the UK economy just like Thatcher-ism did in manufacturing and innovation.
     Japan how ever has turned a new leaf after 20 years of book balancing BS they are investing heavily in innovation.
   • mike e 4.3

     12 July 2012 at 9:16 pm

     mark the office clerk stop being a naive jerk I probably pay more tax than you.I don’t mind one bit because that money is being invested in making our country a better place for children to grow up an succeed become useful members of society provide a well financed police force a modern defence force good roads and rail transport etc etc.
     if we don’t invest especially in the young our country will slip further down the OECD.
     As we have under right wing regimes the only reson we haven’t under this govt is because other govts are following your prescription of Austerity and tax cuts for those like me who don’t need them.
     Economic hisTory lesson.
     The same policy you are spouting happened under right wing govts during the 1920’s and ended very sadly.
   • sooty 4.4

     14 July 2012 at 8:04 am

     “Their money?? Taxpayer money, in fact stolen money from those earning over $60K or so(rich pricks?) as if you are under that level generally you are not a taxpayer at all.”

     Mark, Thanks for that comment. If I am not classified as a taxpayer at all , Can I have my $11,000 back .
5. Mark 5

   12 July 2012 at 3:37 pm

   Toad, do you have evidence that this “lie” was instigated by the Prime Minister. I doubt it.
   Do you not agree that using parliamentary funding to buy signatures is against the concept of a CIR? The Mojo issue only serves to demonstrate the hypocrisy of the party where other peoples money is concerned. I am sure there are plenty of needy constituents that could have used the signature money.
   There is no guarantee at all that power prices will go up, but even if they did, wouldn’t that help to make people more energy efficient, and/or enhance the competitiveness of other renewable energy?
   I stand behind my statements..another economically treasonous attempt to thwart and undermine the democratic electoral process, leading to further pain for those you purport to support.
   I am still waiting for the explanation of “stolen property”
   Luckily the country is waking in the main to the Socialist Hijacking of the environmental movement.
   • McFlock 5.1

     12 July 2012 at 4:08 pm

     1:“These are the people that said they don’t have enough money to pay for (deaf MP) Mojo Mathers’ technology in Parliament but have enough money for a citizens initiated referendum” 
        
      2:”Do you not agree that using parliamentary funding to buy signatures is against the concept of a CIR? ”
     Do you have evidence for this? I doubt it. 
        
     3: Stolen property – well, the easiest interpretation for you would be that to be determined by the Waitangi Tribunal.
        
     Sorted. 
   • mike e 5.2

     12 July 2012 at 8:09 pm

     Mark the propaganda office clerk.You didn’t complain when people stood against the Fart tax but labour had a majority and listened to the people.
6. prism 6

   12 July 2012 at 9:16 pm

   As a matter of interest Mark wrote (with a few rejoinders to him) 18 comments between 2pm and 6.30 p.m. on this thread. It doesn’t take long for aliens to take over, watch out for the Daleks.
   • ak 6.1

     12 July 2012 at 9:39 pm

     Expect a lot more Marks from here on in. And be glad.

     When a needy Johnny-no-mates is forced to use the race card to groin-kick his last groupie, it tells you that internal polling is at whoop-whoop stage. All hired hands to the pump.

     And expect no mainstream news till Sunday. Leveson is exposing a tiny tip of the iceberg that completely engulfed NZ back around 2004. But of course we won’t read about it.

     Make some noise on Saturday. Do it for Mark.
7. Georgecom 7

   12 July 2012 at 9:21 pm

   A great reminder from Mark, take along copies of the asset sale petition to all actions. Just make sure they are circulating everywhere.
8. willie maley 8

   12 July 2012 at 9:34 pm

   OK Mark you have played the role of today’s tory troll perfectly, now brace yourself for Saturday as you and your ilk are going to be blown away by the opposition to your govts asset sale legislation.
9. Treetop 9

   13 July 2012 at 3:49 pm

   Bit of a coincidence that Bastile Day is 14 July a French national holiday. Were I to add on ards to bas and mispell stile to steal and throw in National I would come up with National bastards are stealing. Shame I do not have a good bastard T shirt to wear to the march in my area.
10. lprent 10

    14 July 2012 at 2:19 pm

    At a memorial service. Waiting for it to start

    Seems appropiate to miss one for the other

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