Eek! ANGRY BLACKMAN

Written By: - Date published: 3:45 pm, November 11th, 2009 - 111 comments
Categories: colonialism, racism - Tags:

angry brown and blue men

OK, so Hone says

If I should be suspended for my language, he [Phil Goff]

and his mates should be lined up against the wall and shot.

Just as saying something about [blue] mofos does not mean therefore all [blues] are mofos, the comment about Goff is not an incitement nor is it meant other than figuratively. It is an exasperated response that employs a common idiomatic phrase in a conditional comparative analogy. I think they’re a bad choice of words, although the sentiments and anger are understandable if you acknowledge the context – even if you don’t agree with them.

Of course many people don’t actually want to think or hear about what Hone actually said, they’re too distracted wetting themselves over the specter of an ANGRY BLACKMAN. Some will be pleased with the hysteria and merrily propagate as much misunderstanding and ill sentiment as possible. Many will take the comments as incontrovertible ‘evidence’ that the Maori Party is racist and that bloke Harry Wearer is one scary angry marry. Others will be wetting themselves with relief that the heat’s off them – thank goodness a couple of intemperate sentences are far more outrageous than senior Ministers of the Crown pilfering thousands of dollars to pay for family homes or trips overseas for their girlfriends.

And of course let’s not think about whether it might be true that there were and still are blue mofos, although presumably not all blues are mofos, right? Just as long as we don’t have to acknowledge our distant and very recent past of the Crown screwing-over Maori. Because that could really kill the buzz and bring us back to those downer issues like the recession. Instead, let’s make it all about Hone, about his anger actually being the cause of racism because he shouldn’t be so upset or criticizing the deeply racist anti-Maori acts of our Crown throughout history.

Buying into the ooh he said white mofos, he hates whites meme is just bullshit.

111 comments on “Eek! ANGRY BLACKMAN”

  1. Jackie 1

    About time. thanks Sprout

  2. fizzleplug 2

    Fucking smurfs. I hate them all.

  3. rocky 3

    Excellent Sprout. You’ve put it best 🙂

  4. Bill 4

    Thank-you and well said Sprout!

  5. very timely, nice one

  6. gitmo 6

    Hone’s black ?

  7. lukas 7

    Sprout, do you think that white-man bulls*** is a good excuse for not going to a meeting?

  8. Matt Andrews 8

    Very sad to see The Standard trying to justify racist hate speech.

    What Hone said is not ok. We need to stand up to racism, whatever the source.

    To oppose what Hone said is NOT to deny the horrors of colonialism or to dismiss the continuing underlying racism in NZ society.

    But neither past wrongs nor continuing racial injustice make it ok for him to say what he did.

    I think it is really sad that, by the logic of this post, people who reject racism are, by definition, racists themselves.

    That’s not right. Neither is what Hone said.

    [The Standard is saying nothing on the matter. Read the About. These are the opinions of one author and you will address your views directly to that author. Continue to ascribe the views of individual posters to The Standard and you will be banned.]

    • try reading the post again Matty, this time with both eyes

    • rocky 8.2

      You’ll find a number of posts on this topic on the standard with different views. Check out the posts from Eddie, Zetetic, Tammy Gordon, The Sprout, and myself.

    • lukas 8.3

      to whoever wrote… [The Standard is saying nothing on the matter. Read the About. These are the opinions of one author and you will address your views directly to that author. Continue to ascribe the views of individual posters to The Standard and you will be banned.]

      How can you say that when there are numerous posts from “The Standard”?

      [It’s quite simple. Posts are to be attributed to their authors. If a post is written by “The Standard” you can attribute it to The Standard. Otherwise don’t.]

  9. TightyRighty 9

    and you’d think the waitangi tribunal had never been established to redress some of the wrongs perpetrated against Maori. what we need now is a Chatham Islands tribunal to redress the wrongs perpetrated by mainland Maori against the Mori-Ori. wonder what the waitangi tribunal pay out would have been for can…..?

    • bringing the moriori issues into the debate is a hoary old chestnut. maybe you should talk to Maori about that one 😉

      as for your earlier observation, do you think the Nuremburg Trials nullified the reality of what preceded them? not saying they’re comparable, just that it’s the same logic.

    • rocky 9.2

      Great point re the Nuremburg trials sprout.

      TightyRighty – So might is right, and as long as those done wrong aren’t 100% pure and innocent, actions against them are justifiable? Especially if some token compensation is later given.

      If another country invades and takes over NZ tomorrow, it will of course be totally acceptable because of the injustice we’ve done Maori.

      • TightyRighty 9.2.1

        in a historical context seems to be ok when judged against what the maori did to the mori ori. which is really what this all about, history. trying to bring the present into it is reasonably lame.

        • Daveski 9.2.1.1

          To be pedantically correct, the Maori did nothing but I think it was Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama.who carry that burden.

          The concept of “the Maori” is very much a European invention.

          • the sprout 9.2.1.1.1

            thanks Daveski
            Be as pedantically correct on this as you like – beats the hell out of being woefully and willfully misinformed!

            and yes, always pays to remember Moaridom, at least in the early colonial context, is very much a euro construct. probably still is, especially if you consider european is in many ways a kaiwai construct 😉

    • gitmo 9.3

      1. The Mori-ori were Maoris
      2. They didn’t have a treaty with the mainland invaders
      3. According to the Taranaki tribes of the day they were quite tasty.

      You are right of course Maori have been dealing to Maori since before and after the arrival of Europeans. The Waitangi tribunal and the TOW are a different issue entirely though.

  10. Matt Andrews 10

    Apologies. I meant “someone on The Standard” rather than “The Standard”.

    This is a very emotional topic for a lot of us on the left. I do feel very upset about what Hone Harawira said and by the attempts to rationalise it.

    Fortunately his leader has taken a stand:
    Nov 11th 2009 4:30pm Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia has finally spoken out of the Hone Harawira controversy, calling his behaviour “unacceptable”

  11. TightyRighty 11

    I have on occasion brought the issue of the Mori Ori up. all i got in return was replies ranging from “fuck off” (hilarious) to “you wouldn’t understand”. well i do understand, i understand an entire race of people (genocide, see below) was wiped out.

    like nuremberg, the memory should remain with us forever to remind us, not to be an albatross around our necks. when does moving forward start? if we always look back, which you seem to be implying we should, we can never progress as a nation. but since we are stuck here, let us remember the Mori Ori while we are at it.

    • BLiP 11.1

      Fuck off.

    • rocky 11.2

      Claiming you’re bringing this up because you give a shit rather than to score political points is bullshit.

      In any case I’ll ignore that fact and address your comment. We’re not looking to a very distant past here, land confiscations from Maori have been a fairly continuous occurrence since 1840. The treaty was never honoured, which brings into question the Crown’s right of kawanatanga which was only ceded by Maori as part of the deal. As the Waitangi Tribunal has said, treaty settlements will never be able to compensate for what was lost, but they help restore the Crown’s honour, and therefore the constitutional foundations of this country.

    • the sprout 11.3

      an important discussion to be had tr, but not one for this post – maybe open mike?

      keeping a little closer to the topic, do you think Hone’s comments are much worse than, and more worthy of great debate than, say the propriety of the F&S Act, the outrageousness of English and Hide’s thievery, or NZ’s colonial history of land confiscation and frequently racist treatment of Maori?

      • TightyRighty 11.3.1

        ah, it depends on your take on all those issues.

        I believe that Hone shot his mouth off. I think he is entitled to think what ever he likes in private. however, as he is a public figure, he has to be held accountable when does things in public. I, for one, am thick skinned enough to laugh at being called a white motherfucker. and i don’t think this is an excuse for all racism to be released either. racism of any sort is uncalled for. I do think that this is a topic of debate ever since the race relations commissioner opened his stupid mouth and said that racism of one kind is not okay, but of another kind it’s fine. for any other reason it’s pretty flash in the pan type stuff.

  12. Matt Andrews 12

    The issue of the Moriori is a very odd one to bring up in the current context and one needs to be very careful in using words like genocide.

    The current understanding is that the people of the Chathams were conquered by Taranaki Maori. They were not an “entire race of people” in the way we commonly understand this term.

    But a discussion of the potential role of the Crown in preventing such a massacre from happening is one that requires a serious historical and jurisprudential debate that would be off topic on this post.

    But on happier note it’s really good to see the press release from Tariana Turia accepting “people are really upset by what Mr Harawira wrote”
    and describing “what Mr Harawira wrote as very distressing.”

  13. deemac 13

    afraid I disagree
    a throwaway remark in a bar is one thing, a media statement (particularly by a professional politician) is another
    it is never appropriate to suggest violence is the answer, even as a joke
    the problem is not that he’s angry but that he’s a clown

  14. Matt Andrews 14

    Sprout – I’m a little confused by the question originally posed to another commentor:

    “do you think Hone’s comments are much worse than, and more worthy of great debate than, say the propriety of the F&S Act, the outrageousness of English and Hide’s thievery, or NZ’s colonial history of land confiscation and frequently racist treatment of Maori”

    Clearly his comments are not much worse than any of those things.

    But to me, your query is a non sequitar.

    What he said was wrong. He should not have said it. Racism should be decried, whoever advocates it.

    This is the point I’ve been trying to make, obviously inarticulately, this afternoon: I find it sad that those who call Harawira’s racism are accused of racism themselves.

    Of course his comments pale in comparison to the wrongs you note. But they don’t become insignficant.

    • rocky 14.1

      Can you define why what Hone said was racist?

      • the sprout 14.1.1

        i’d be keen to hear

        in terms of the suggestion critics of Hone might be being racist, while they are right to criticize his phraseology, the strength of their reaction is disproportionate in and of itself, and particularly in terms of what was actually said and when comparing what he actually said to the culpability others ought to wear.

      • Matt Andrews 14.1.2

        I believe it is racist to refer generically to non-Maori as white motherfu.kers. I also think that to assign expecations about fulfilling work obligations as whiteman’s bullsht must be read as racist – either towards non-Maori or Maori depending on how you read it.

        • the sprout 14.1.2.1

          i don’t believe he ever did make a generic statement about non-Maori, see the 2nd sentence of the above post.

          as for “assign expecations about fulfilling work obligations as whiteman’s bullsht”, i don’t think that’s actually what he said but it was clearly foolish of him to say it in a way that could understandably be interpreted as such. but still hardly a sacking or witch-burning offence, surely?

        • rocky 14.1.2.2

          Hone wasn’t referring to non-Maori as a group.

          As for the white mans bullshit comment, the comment (rightly or wrongly) shows Hone’s contempt for our political system. I doubt very much that it solely related to his Paris trip, but more that was part of the reason for thinking the Paris trip was acceptable. Disagreeing with a political system doesn’t make you racist.

          Personally I think the trip in Paris was stupid, but I fully supported him when he did a similar thing in Australia, going off to Alice Springs, as it was a political action.

          • Matt Andrews 14.1.2.2.1

            I don’t understand how he was not referring to non-Maori as a group. I have read your argument on this point but don’t find at all persuasive or compelling. He expressed his comments in away that covered all non-Maori. I can’t find the intertextual or subtextual tags that allow me to read it as relating to a subgroup. But I’m not sure how far we can get in reconciling our different deconstructions.

            I agree that this isn’t a witchburning or sacking offence. I’ll chose to read your query as not implying that my comments suggest I do, although the alternate reading does seem open.

            I entirely and without reservation agree with and endorse your commetns about the trip to Alice Springs. It was WORK. It was a clear and justifiable use of taxpayer money and it reflects incredibly poorly on the NZ Parliament and NZ society that there was any controversy over that trip.

            This one was different. But the side trip is trivia compared to his language (at least by my reading, which is obviously very different to yours).

            • rocky 14.1.2.2.1.1

              We probably won’t agree on the interpretation of the comments, but in one last attempt, sprout puts it best:

              “[saying] something about [blue] mofos does not mean therefore all [blues] are mofos

            • the sprout 14.1.2.2.1.2

              no definitely not suggesting you are advocating a witch-burning. i think your comments are balanced, calm and fair Matt and welcome contrast to some others’ desperation to take vicious offence.

              in the end we may just have to agree to disagree on some of the finer points of interpretation. if one thing’s for sure making comments that are so open to misinterpretation is a perilous game.

            • Matt Andrews 14.1.2.2.1.3

              On the topic of more important issues – be keen to see some comment on Hide breaking the Cabinet rules re using his position as a minister to endorse a dentist who provided him with his new teeth. I’ve been told off for referring to The Standard as an entity but am surprised that no-one has commented on this.

              http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/hide-breaks-cabinet-rules-over-teeth-3127017/video

              This guy has proven time and again that he has no understanding of appropriate conduct as a Minister.

            • Trader Jack 14.1.2.2.1.5

              Like some spooky machine!

            • Matt Andrews 14.1.2.2.1.6

              Right – fully withdraw and apologise. Somehow missed that.
              I did look.
              I hadn’t seen the story until tonight and did a google search for it.
              Sorry.
              Feel free to ban or take other appropriate action!

            • Daveo 14.1.2.2.1.7

              meh, I’m just some dude. couldn’t ban you if i tried.

  15. torydog 15

    Stop making excuses for him.

    Haters and Wreckers!

  16. The Voice of Reason 16

    Hard to express how sad this post makes me. So I’ll let the Specials do it for me:

    • Daveski 16.1

      Which took me back to Ghost Town. Thanks TVOR … got to say that the left has all the best music 🙂

      • The Voice of Reason 16.1.1

        Cheers and a hat tip to Herotodus for reminding me yesterday of all the great anti-fascist music of the early eighties. I feel a post coming on!

        • Daveski 16.1.1.1

          If we’re not careful, we’ll be back talking about LKJ again and I’ll start looking like a raving lefty!

        • Herodotus 16.1.1.2

          Unfortunately the sound on records is crap and when can you listen to a tape. Still Gang of 4, Killing joke. The problem is that there may be 2 or 3 of us responding, and giving away our age !!
          Also as a young one did not appreciate what the social unrest was like in UK. Ashes to Ashes gives a good impression.
          Back on topic .. mmm nothing to say The global warming is not working as I have not acquired a red neck from the sun. Perhaps all that I can get out of this is that we can all assess our own attitudes towards Hone, and if there is no hatred at least we can to our selfs confirm that the royal “we” aer not racist, the more that can say that at least NZ may be moving on.

  17. hahaha 17

    Deniers unite.

  18. Bill 18

    If an Irishman refers to the English bastards (or whatever) in the manner that Hone referred to white mofos there is no fallout. Similarly if a Scotsman refers to English bastards or a Welshman refers to English bastards, there is no fallout.

    This is because the English being referred to are taken to be the ones who instigated the colonisation of Ireland, Scotland or Wales or to be the ones who seek to continue English domination or who are apologists for the British state…ie those who represent the English/British establishment rather than all English people.

    The ‘unpleasant’ ones above are, by and large, identifiable by their nationality…..English.

    The ‘unpleasant’ ones in a NZ context are not separately identifiable by their nationality, but rather by their skin colour as well as their identification with the establishment in a comparable manner as the examples above.

    Reversing the players, if an Englishman refers to Scottish, Welsh or Irish bastards (or whatever) it is an expression of disdain aimed at all the Scots or Welsh or Irish and is considered racist insofar as it expresses cultural superiority and or seeks to reinforce cultural inferiorities….which is what that prick Goff claims to not understand when he draws the comparisons he did on breakfast( the if I said what Hone said b/s)….which makes him either racist due to ignorance (which can be fixed) or simply a racist prick regardless.

    Just saying.

    And adding that Labour can fuck right off in my book for as long as they embrace/express such racist crap as can any other political party that does likewise.

  19. M Stein 19

    “Instead, let’s make it all about Hone, about his anger actually being the cause of racism …

    Buying into the ooh he said white mofos, he hates whites meme is just bullshit.”

    Perhaps, but how about some consistency? If Roger Douglass, Don Brash, or any white politician had used those words you would not be accepting excuses from their supporters.

    But asking Lenin’s question about politics – Who? Whom? – we can identify the person making the comments is from an oppressed group about an oppressor group so excuses may be accepted.

    • felix 19.1

      Bill’s comment above covers this issue very well. I suggest you read it, the whole thing, word by word and deliberately. Then go and read the original post again.

      • Geek 19.1.1

        Very small minded. He makes uneven comparisons. Yes an Englishmen referring to all Irish men or Scotsmen as inferior is racist. That does not minimize the racist nature of the initial comment.

        Geoffs comments are fair if you were to put him in the same situation as I have below. Identifying a subset by race alone is no less racist. The fact is you are attributing the undesirable traits of a few to the entire race.

        It is a classic case of attempting to say “well that is worse so this must be OK” Just because Murder is a crime it doesn’t mean assault is OK.

        • Bill 19.1.1.1

          geek.

          Let me put it another way. The oppressors do not get to frame the terms of reference that the oppressed will use to identify their oppressor.

          If and when that is allowed to happen, the defiance of the oppressed is more or less ended as they will have no meaningful terms of reference for their oppression.

          So the terms of reference belong to the oppressed and will shift over time as and when determined appropriate by the oppressed.

          Going back to my British example, I could imagine class and religious based set of references mixing it up with the English reference point….Irish might refer to protestant bastards….and the Scots might be incorporating more class analysis given that G.Brown is Scottish…or they might have disavowed him and his Scottishness and regard him as a traitorous bastard…..whatever; it’s a dynamic that the oppressor has no legitimate say in.

          And I wonder why it is that so many here simply cannot get their heads around the matter with regards to Hone and Goff. Is it all going to come down to who you identify with most…..which is to say, do you consider yourself (not your heritage) Polynesian or European? Do you identify with the colonial winners or the indigenous resistance? Do you see anything wrong with the fact that an Anglo culture was stamped on these islands? To what degree can you empathise with the intergenerational playing out of negative dynamics as a consequence of imposed cultural denigration and land loss?

          Finally. Notice how the white male media has discounted or is totally blind to the genuine and unreserved apology Hone offered in relation to the sexism of his outburst? Which begs the question as to where the ingrained and implacable sexism resides, don’t you think?

          And if you can take on board and follow that not unconnected matter, you can take on board and follow the racist argument too and wind up at the same end point as myself and others.

          • Geek 19.1.1.1.1

            The problem is that you are straying into the territory of saying it is OK to be racist if you feel you have been oppressed. This is essentially arguing that Maori or any oppressed peoples can’t be accused of Racism because they get to define what Racism is. That is simply not true. Racism is any discrimination based upon race. At no point does it say any discrimination based upon race where the person doing the discrimination is oppressing the other person.

            You are trying to excuse behavior in one person that you would never accept in the other. In fact you would consider the behavior in the other to be a form of the oppression that excuses the first persons actions.

            Finally don’t try and say his apology to women has been ignored. Most reports I have seen on the apology have highlighted the fact that he apologized for any sexist connotations that may have come from his statement. Hell the fact that he apologized for what may be seen as sexist yet stoutly refused to apologize for what may be seen as racist shows that he doesn’t care if it is seen as Racist. He’s sorry if a woman got offended as he didn’t mean to offend her but damn straight I meant to offend Whitey.

            • Bill 19.1.1.1.1.1

              “The problem is that you are straying into the territory of saying it is OK to be racist if you feel you have been oppressed.”

              No I’m not. What I am saying is that the oppressed and not the oppressors get to frame the terms of reference….get to decide the criteria that the oppressor will be identified by. ( In this case their whiteness. Not my whiteness….theirs.)

              You are stuck with this idea that Hone was referring to all white people when he patently wasn’t. He was referring to the white motherfuckers who confiscated land etc.

            • Geek 19.1.1.1.1.2

              God Bill you are making this shit up as you go along. Here is the quote from his email:

              “White motherf****** have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullsh**.”

              It clearly says White Mother fuckers HAVE not WHO or THAT.For god sake you can try and justify this shit all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that his email in no way hints at being aimed at a sub set and is aimed at all White people.

              By saying the oppressed get to frame the terms by which they reference the oppressor is clearly saying that if you feel oppressed you get to apply what ever language to that person you feel. I am afraid if that language is offensive it will remain so and is no more acceptable than a white farmer in Zimbabwe who has just been forced off his land referring to those who did it as “Ni**ers”.

  20. Craig Ranapia 21

    Spout:

    If you think “motherfucker” (let’s can the cute euphemisms, shall we?) contributes anything worthwhile to any debate worth having, be my guest. I’ll just disagree, but it’s rather interesting how you’re trying to reframe the debate as some kind of white fear as of the angry (and uppity) black man. I’m not anti-Maori, but I’m sure anti-idiot.

    Meanwhile, I find it rather interesting that nobody has picked up on Harawira’s rather crass rape analogy. Perhaps I’m a prissy little feminist, but the only thing that’s LIKE rape IS rape, and anyone who trivialises sexual violence for rhetorical effect is a cretin, And if you want to put some racist angle on that, I was also highly critical of Chris Trotter last year when he blogged that criticism of Winston Peters was “the media equivalent of gang rape.” Like hell it was.

    • the sprout 21.1

      i agree entirely on all those points Craig, except that i don’t think use of the word contributes anything useful – quite the opposite. they’re both completely tasteless and offensive analogies. mark ellis also springs to mind, unfortunately.

    • rocky 21.2

      From Harawira’s apology:

      A close friend has also forcefully pointed out that the mofo word is demeaning to women and I apologise unconditionally for using that word.

      • the sprout 21.2.1

        apparently his wife wasn’t at all impressed and quickly pointed out the error of his ways to him

      • Craig Ranapia 21.2.2

        Rocky:

        I wouldn’t say “the mofo word” is demeaning to women. In a society where parent-child incest is not only profoundly repugnant to any sane person but criminal, it’s demeaning to anyone you throw it at regardless of gender. And I think Hone knows that.

  21. Geek 22

    Lets simplify the question. Why is it considered that his statements are racist. Well that is easy. If you were to transpose the language would they still be considered racist.

    If a European MP had referred to a group of Maori activists who yelled at him as “those black mofo’s” would we be seeing Mr Harawira claiming it to be a racist comment? yes. Would sprout be defending the comment on the basis that he was only referring to the group of activists? The answer is simple, no.

    It is irrelevant that the term was being applied to a smaller sub set. Mr Harawira chose to identify that sub set based upon their race alone. If he had said those White Mofo’s at the Herald it may have been more acceptable. However he has clearly attributed the action of a few to the entire race. This is the racist nature of the remark.

    In the end it comes down to whether not the comments caused offense. Clearly they have. A man in his position has no right to plead ignorance on this. His position alone means he has to be more thoughtful in what he writes. Ignorance after all is the breeding ground of racism.

    • Pascal's bookie 22.1

      The few white people that alienated Maori land? That would include those few that voted for Labour or National in 05 right?

      • Geek 22.1.1

        I’m sorry are you changing the argument? The initial asertion by Sprout is that Mr Harawira’s statements are not racist because they are not directed at Europeoan’s as a whole. I merely point out that the fact that he is assigning the characteristics of a a subset to the race as a whole is what defines it as racist. Increasing the numbers of people he was referring to in no way reduces the racist nature of the comment.

        As to your assertion that anyone who voted for labor or National in the 05 election being responsible for stealing Maori land, well don’t be stupid. People vote for a party based on many varying factors. Being that both parties were using the F&S as a hot button on the issue means that those who voted for them would have to have voted for the green party to be removed from your definition of a land grabber. I would like to think people base their votes on more than one hot button issue.

        You keep building straw men out of statements that I never made though. It only shows you have no valid input to this discussion.

        • Pascal's bookie 22.1.1.1

          “You keep building straw men out of statements that I never made though. It only shows you have no valid input to this discussion.”

          Sorry about that if true. Got an example?

          Hone was referring to some mofo’s that steal land, and who are white. Where does he say that all whites are mofo’s. White is an adjective in his phrase as I read it.

          It is true that people vote on amny issues, but that doesn’t in fact absolve them for the other issues their vote gives support to. They may not like those things, but they obviously don’t care about them enough to vote against it.

          • Geek 22.1.1.1.1

            [quote]The few white people that alienated Maori land[/quote]

            At no point did I ever say that only a few people alienated Maori land. That was the whole context of your response to my initial post. Creating your own statement to reply to and using that as a way to try and discredit my initial argument is clearly straw man debating. Of course feel free to pull out of my initial post any reference to a few people.

            White would become an adjective if he had some other defining characteristic in the group of people he was referring to. The statement was “white motherfuckers have been stealing and raping our lands”. Break that down. Who is he talking about? white mother fuckers. What did they do? stole and raped our lands. Now I agree a different meaning is inferred if he had said “those white motherfuckers [u]that[/u] stole and raped our lands. He is then using White Motherfuckers as an adjective for the group of people who carried out the act. However the way he formed the sentence the group of people are the adjective.

            As to laying the F&S at the feet of anyone who voted for either major party, well that included a large number of Maori who actively protested against the F&S legislation. Your entire argument that you are responsible for every policy of the person you vote for would destroy the democratic voting system all together. I, like every one, could find policies from every party that I disagree with. This means that I just can’t vote by your definition because I would be responsible for those policies.

            Dammit drawn into arguing your straw man again.

            • Pascal's bookie 22.1.1.1.1.1

              “At no point did I ever say that only a few people alienated Maori land. ”

              I was responding to this: “However he has clearly attributed the action of a few to the entire race. This is the racist nature of the remark.”

              If I have misinterpreted it, I apologise.

              “‘white motherfuckers have been stealing and raping our lands’. Break that down”

              Here’s how I read it.

              There are some people “motherfuckers”

              Why are they motherfuckers? “stealing our land”

              Which particularlar subset of motherfuckers has been doing doing this? “the white ones”

              I don’t see that all whites must be motherfuckers, or that all motherfuckers must be white there.

              As for my comments on democracy, another time perhaps, but I stand by them. I own my votes, I’m responsible for what I vote for.

            • Geek 22.1.1.1.1.2

              “I was responding to this: “However he has clearly attributed the action of a few to the entire race. This is the racist nature of the remark.'”

              Fair enough perhaps the wording of the few was poor. It was not my intention and I even missed it in subsequent readings.

              “Here’s how I read it.

              There are some people “motherfuckers’

              Why are they motherfuckers? “stealing our land’

              Which particularlar subset of motherfuckers has been doing doing this? “the white ones’

              I don’t see that all whites must be motherfuckers, or that all motherfuckers must be white there.

              Therefore you are reading it the same as me. As I said he is directing the statement at “white motherfuckers”. Where we diverge is the second part. The second part refers to action they have been taking, “steal and rape our land”. The second part is not describing the group of people he is referring to. For that to be the case the statement would have been “white motherfuckers THAT have been stealing and raping our lands”. The THAT is key to this argument. Without the only part of the statement that describes who he is referencing is White mother fuckers.

              You are making a circular argument that undermines your initial point any way. You have said that anyone who voted for Labour/National in 05 is responsible for stealing and raping Maori land. There are plenty of non white who fall into that group yet Mr Harawira chooses to only blame the “White Motherfuckers”

              You also miss the simple fact that this statement was felt to be racist. It caused offense. Mr Harawira is aware of that. He chose to apologize to Women because he didn’t intend to cause them offense. He consciously chose not to apologize to white people in general. This strengthens the feeling that he did intend to cause offense.

            • Pascal's bookie 22.1.1.1.1.3

              The second part is not describing the group of people he is referring to. For that to be the case the statement would have been “white motherfuckers THAT have been stealing and raping our lands’. The THAT is key to this argument. Without the only part of the statement that describes who he is referencing is White mother fuckers.

              But it doesn’t mean that all whites are motherfuckers. They are ‘motherfuckers’ because they are stealing the land.

              Also it should be remembered that Hone was replying to Buddy, who siad that Hone might be just like all those ‘white mofo’s’. That’s where the offending phrase came into the conversation.

            • Geek 22.1.1.1.1.4

              I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The fact that Hone has chosen to apologize for offense he may have caused women (which is far harder to extract from the email) but didn’t apologize for any offense he may have caused white people would indicate he is happy with causing that offense.

  22. ha ha ha (I'm stupid) 23

    So ‘Pascal’, it follows that Maoris who steal are black motherfuckers who are raping this country.
    And as Craig Ranapia stated earlier, Hone said MOTHERFUCKERS not the cutesy fluffy bunny US news euphamism MOFO.

    Sounds like you are becoming a racism denier.

    [lprent: Darwinian award? ]

  23. J Mex 24

    PB and I have been discussing this on another thread nad I have been using Melissa Lee as an example:

    She said something along the lines of “Burglars driving into Mt Albert from South auckland to steal”

    She was villified by the Standard authors who posted on the subject and commenters as being racist. Students turned up to her speeches with pictures of her with swastikas painted on and officially declared her to be a racist.

    -She didn’t mention a colour, ethnic group or race.

    Yet she was racist.

    Using the sprout defence “And of course let’s not think about whether it might be true that there were and still are blue mofos, although presumably not all blues are mofos, right?” and inserting South Auckland for blue and burglar you get an interesting result

    “Let’s not think about whether there are burglars in south auckland. But not all South aucklanders are burglars.”

    “White Motherfuckers”. Not racist.
    “Burglars from South Auckland”. Racist.

    I fail to see the consistency. But maybe it’s just me.

  24. Geek 25

    That was very simple and hard to argue against. However expect to see Bill claim it is Racist because only Maori get to decide what is and isn’t Racist.

    • Bill 25.1

      Geek.

      get fucked.

      • Geek 25.1.1

        The final cry of a person with no answers.

        • Bill 25.1.1.1

          The answer to your preposterous assertion on what I am likely to think or claim was sitting here in response to the first time you posited the trash you have re-asserted in this part of the thread.

          • Gosman 25.1.1.1.1

            So did you think that Melissa Lee was referring to ‘Brown’ people in south Auckland when whe referred to criminals from that location?

            Or were you one of the people who defended her against accusations of racism but believed she made a stupid comment?

  25. Blue 26

    “presumably not all blues are mofos, right?”

    I should hope so 🙂

  26. Gosman 28

    Once again I am enjoying immensely seeing people on the left turn themselves into logical and linguistic pretzels trying to justify why Hone’s comments are not really the kind of blatent racism that they would villify someone else for if it was directed against people of the ‘darker’ shades of skin pigmentation in our society.

    😀

    • gitmo 28.1

      There’s only two things I hate in this world.

      People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch.

    • Pascal's bookie 28.2

      hah! That’s funny, cause I’m once again wondering why folks from starboard can’t read or think straight.

  27. I find it funny how the left always has to twist things or turn things around if one of their own make racist comments.

    Is Michael Richards Racist in your opinion sprout?

    • the sprout 29.1

      I think Richards said some pretty stupid things he very quickly regretted Bretty, I’m inclined to agree with Seinfeld’s analysis on that one. Do you think he deserved to have his career destroyed and be persecuted for it?

      do you think Harawira deserves to lose his job for his outbursts, considering you can be Deputy PM and Minister of Finance and defraud public funds, or build your career on being a perk buster then use public funds to shout holidays to Disneyland for your girlfriend, and suffer no sanction what so ever? What do you reckon Bretty?

      • Geek 29.1.1

        I haven’t seen to many people call for him to lose his job. What has people in this thread angry is those who jump on the band wagon and call someone like Melissa Lee a Nazi for her comments then come and claim that Mr Harawira’s are any less offensive. He doesn’t need to lose his job. That doesn’t make his comments any less offensive.

        • J Mex 29.1.1.1

          Correct, Geek. It’s the quite obvious double standard that annoys me.

          In fact, what annoys me most is Sprouts inference that we are racist for finding Hone’s comments racist – To the effect of ‘You only find it upseting because an angry black man said it’

          If Rodney Hide had written about a small group of Maori that had caused him problems and called them “a bunch of black motherfuckers”, you can be damn sure that Sprout wouldn’t be running to his aid saying “That’s not racist because he wasn’t refering to ALL Maori”.

          The Standard, the media and the public would be going absolutely mental, calling for Hide’s resignation, and an apology to the whole of NZ. I wouldn’t be standing in their way.

          Deep down, I pretty sure that Sprout et al acknowledge this. It’s just no fun to admit it. Much more fun to try and tie yourself into knots to show off your ability to almost defend the indefensible.

          Personally, I think Marty G has pretty much nailed this topic in his latest post

          • the sprout 29.1.1.1.1

            the racism, if there’s any, comes from the disproportionate response

            • J Mex 29.1.1.1.1.1

              Could you clarify which racism, if any, you are refering to Sprout?

            • the sprout 29.1.1.1.1.2

              i’m referring to the racism you invoked in your quote above

            • Geek 29.1.1.1.1.3

              Is the response any more disproportionate than students showing up to Mellisa Lee’s next public meeting with pictures of her with Swastika’s all over it and shouting racist the whole time? Or was that racist against her because she was Asian.

              The response would have been more muted had Hone came out straight away and said he understood that people had taken offense to the fact his comments may be interpreted as racist and that was not his intention. instead he let it build for a week before apologizing to Women and for using bad language but clearly ignoring any racial offense he may have caused. He allowed this to turn into the furor it has become.

              I do think it is a shame that he will end up out of the Maori party for it.

            • the sprout 29.1.1.1.1.4

              i think the swastika responses to Lee were equally as preposterously disproportionate as the outcry over HH’s comments

  28. J Mex 30

    Sprout – Are you suggesting that if it was Rodney Hide who had used the term “black motherfuckers” in an email about a group of people that there would not have been a severe reaction from the standard, the media and the general public?

    Interesting that you say the Lee response was disproportianate. Do you think her comment was racist?

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Canada’s electoral system is broken
    Canadians went to the polls today in parliamentary elections, and appear to have re-elected blackface wearer Justin Trudeau. Unfortunately, they use first-past-the-post, and they've provided a perfect demonstration of how unfair this system is:PartySeats% Seats% VoteLiberal15746.4%33.1%Conservative12135.8%34.4%Bloc Québécois329.5%7.7%New Democratic Party247.1%15.9%Green Party30.9%6.5%Other10.3%2.4% [Results from Elections Canada] Yes, the Liberals got fewer votes ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    9 hours ago
  • Measles: the quackery that is homeopathic “vaccination”
    A few days ago, a friend sent me a link to a health-related FB page that had published a post from a homeopathist, offering homeopathic “vaccination”¹ against measles (using something called a “Morbillinum nosode” at a “potency” of 200C, which I’ll explain shortly). I followed the link, left a comment ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    14 hours ago
  • Colombia: 20th anniversary of La Gabarra massacre
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh This year marks the 20th anniversary of the La Gabarra massacre. The community organised an event to remember the most well-known of the horrendous heart-breaking events that befell the communities of this area of the municipality of Tibú: the massacre carried out on August 21st 1999. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    14 hours ago
  • A prediction
    There was another police chase in Christchurch this morning, resulting in a crash which killed one person and injured five more. Because someone died, the chase is being investigated by the Independent Police Conduct Authority. And based on previous reports by the IPCA, we know how it will go: the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    18 hours ago
  • Climate Change: The Zero Carbon Bill
    Just a month ago we saw the biggest protest in a generation as people marched to demand stronger action on climate change. A core demand of the protesters was to strengthen the Zero Carbon Bill's target to net-zero by 2040. So what is the government's response? Judging by the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago
  • Zombie ants, updated
    Back in 2010, I wrote about the strange tale of the zombie ants, which do the bidding of their fungal overlords. (They’re not an isolated example; a range of parasites change their hosts’ behaviour. See here and here for example – though as you’ll find, the toxoplasmosis story may be ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    23 hours ago
  • Paying For Our Pakeha “Guilt” And “Privilege”.
    Shouldn't That Be: "Wrong White Crowd"? Rather than apportion guilt, would it not have been wiser for the makers of Land Of The Long White Cloud to accept that the Pakeha of 2019 are not – and never will be – “Europeans”? Just as contemporary Maori are not – and ...
    24 hours ago
  • A Bodyguard of Truths.
    One, Two, Many Truths: With the collapse of “actually existing socialism” in 1991, the universities of the West found themselves saddled with a new mission. With their ideological competitors now soundly defeated they were no longer required to demonstrate the superiority of capitalist values. Their job now was to cement ...
    1 day ago
  • A call to unionists
    by the Council of Disobedient Women   We call on the Council of Trade Unions to show some fortitude and take a stand with your sisters. Unionists know that there is a material world, otherwise workers could simply identify out of poverty. They could declare themselves Well Paid. Why stop ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Sophistry and bullshit
    I spent some time reading the Regulatory Impact Statement and Bill of Rights Act advice for the government's odious control order scheme today. I am not impressed with either of them. Starting with the RIS, it is built on some pretty questionable assumptions. For example:Unless individuals have been convicted of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • I’m so fly, I’m #NoFly!
    #NoFly: Walking the talk on climate change, by Shaun Hendy. BWB Texts, 2019. Reviewed by Robert McLachlan In June 2018, Swede Maja Rosén founded We stay on the ground with a pledge not to fly in 2019, and a goal of persuading 100,000 other Swedes to join her. In August, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • Punishing the young
    We all know that NZ First is a party of and for old people who hate the young. But they've topped their previous pedophobia with a proposal that all young people be forced to do 100 hours community work:NZ First wants all young people to do 100 hours of community ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Journalism, clickbait, & ideas of classical beauty – but not science
    A couple days ago the NZ Herald published a story with the headline, “Science says Bella Hadid is world’s most beautiful woman“, and followed up with the ridiculous statement that Supermodel Bella Hadid has been declared as the world’s most beautiful woman following a scientific study into what constitutes as ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 days ago
  • Is Simon’s Smile Sustainable?
    A Sustainable Proposition: With as much as 18 percent of the electorate declaring itself “undecided” about who to vote for, there is obviously plenty of space for a party like former Green Party member, Vernon Tava's, about-to-be-launched "Sustainable NZ Party" to move into. The most hospitable political territory for such ...
    2 days ago
  • What the actual Hell?
    Keir Starmer has hinted that Labour might vote in favour of the Johnson government's shoddy deal, with the proviso that a second referendum is attached:Speaking to BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, he said: “We will see what that looks like but it makes sense to say that by whatever ...
    2 days ago
  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    4 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    4 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    5 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    5 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    5 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    6 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    6 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    6 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    7 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    7 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 week ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 week ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 week ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    2 weeks ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Government announces next steps as part of a comprehensive plan to fix skills gap
    A new education-to-employment brokerage service to strengthen connections between local employers and schools. Funding for more trades focused ‘speed-dating’ events to connect schools with employers. Promotional campaign to raise profile of vocational education. The Government is taking action to increase the number of young people taking up vocational education and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    60 mins ago
  • Corrections Amendment Bill passes third reading
    A Bill to improve prison security and ensure the fair, safe, and humane treatment of people in prison while upholding public safety has passed its third reading. Corrections Minister Kelvin Davis says the Corrections Amendment Bill makes a number of changes to ensure the Corrections Act 2004 is fit for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago
  • Ngāi Tahu CEO appointed to NZ-China Council
    Minister for Māori Development, Nanaia Mahuta, has selected Arihia Bennett MNZM, Chief Executive Officer of Te Rūnanga o Ngāi Tahu, as the Te Puni Kōkiri appointed representative on the New Zealand-China Council. The New Zealand-China Council (the Council) was established in 2012 as a New Zealand led and funded organisation ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Southern Response claims move to EQC
    Responsibility for processing the small number of Southern Response claims still to be settled will be transferred to EQC by the end of the year. “As claim numbers reduce, it no longer makes sense for the Crown to have two organisations processing the remaining Canterbury claims,” Grant Robertson says. “Since ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Bowel screening starts in Whanganui
    Health Minister David Clark is encouraging Whanganui residents to take up the opportunity for free bowel screening, which can detect cancer early when it’s easier to treat.   Over the next two years 12,000 Whanganui locals, aged 60 to 74 will be invited to participate in the National Bowel Screening ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Pacific Peoples Minister to attend Our Ocean Conference in Norway
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio, heads to Oslo today to represent New Zealand at the sixth Our Ocean Conference, which is being hosted by the Norwegian Government from the 23-24 October. “The Our Ocean Conference mobilises real action on issues like marine plastic pollution and the impacts of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures Conference: Connection...
    Session 4: Pacific Connectivity – Youth, Media and New Opportunities   Kia ora tatou katoa and Warm Pacific greetings to one and all. Representatives of Tainui, the local people of the land, or manawhenua – the indigenous peoples of this area – have welcomed you this morning in accordance with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago