Elizabeth Kerekere take a bow

20 comments on “Elizabeth Kerekere take a bow ”

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1. JanM 1

   10 February 2021 at 10:03 pm

   What an amazing woman!
2. RedLogix 2

   10 February 2021 at 11:05 pm

   At 2:15 she states that the ToW is "the contract that confers their (Maori) right to govern".

   An interesting turn of phrase that could be interpreted in a number of ways. Any Green supporters here care to clarify?
   • Incognito 2.1

     11 February 2021 at 8:00 am

     Futile exercise and you know it. Ask the right question to the right person and you might get the right answer.

     https://www.parliament.nz/en/mps-and-electorates/members-of-parliament/kerekere-elizabeth/
   • solkta 2.2

     11 February 2021 at 8:05 am

     You misinterpret, the "their" is in reference to the government. The Treaty is the thing that gives them the right to govern yet they do not honour it.
     • RedLogix 2.2.1

       11 February 2021 at 8:33 am

       I was sincerely trying to ask an open ended question without too many presumptions. But on reflection your answer does seem a reasonable one and I'm happy to accept it.

       I would quibble with the idea that '52 successive govts have failed to honour the treaty' – that would have to be a dismal interpretation of events all things considered.

       For example all male Maori obtained the universal right to vote in the early 1870's at least a decade before European males. (This being an era where the marker of the right to vote was 'land ownership/renting in an individual title' – before the concept of citizenship was established in it's modern form.) In some rare cases if they owned or rented land in their own name, they even had the right to vote twice, once for their Maori electorate and once in the European one.

       Like all things human, it seems to me NZ's post-European history is the usual muddle of both good and bad aspects.

       Well I did listen to the whole speech – a bit laden with wokeist jargon for my taste – but on the whole she reminds me of Nandor Tanczos – a bit of a shock to the system when he first arrived, but with time he became a well respected and capable MP.
       • solkta 2.2.1.1

         11 February 2021 at 8:44 am

         "I would quibble with the idea that '52 successive govts have failed to honour the treaty'"

         I'm not going to waste my time trying to discuss that with you.
         • RedLogix 2.2.1.1.1

           11 February 2021 at 9:44 am

           Oh dear – too tiring is it?
           • solkta 2.2.1.1.1.1

             11 February 2021 at 9:51 am

             Tiresome not tiring.
           • Drowsy M. Kram 2.2.1.1.1.2

             11 February 2021 at 10:44 am

             "No, the Woke won't Debate You" – thanks RL for that intriguing James Lindsay article.

             https://curtispowell.substack.com/p/the-problem-with-james-lindsay

             Looking at the comments, was there a follow-up piece advising on strategies to engage with "the Woke"? As difficult as engaging with a bigot, I reckon.

             Some 'anti-Woke crusaders' have even gone so far as to suggest that 'Critical Social Justice' is the biggest problem in the world.

             Personally I thought this observation was on the money:

             Very little institutional power is held by the so-called CJ crowd. So why waste so much energy trying to invalidate their worldview?

             Yet "the Woke" and their causes provoke such strong reactions in those who either deny or who are (conveniently?) blind to systemic injustice. Baffling.

             If everyone was a little bit shameless, it might deflate the ‘anti-woke’ right
             Embracing our lust for play, debauchery and gluttony promises to do more than just unite us. It can reveal how limited the transgressions offered by the apostles of anti-wokeness really are.
             https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/02/anti-woke-right-liberals
             • RedLogix …

               11 February 2021 at 10:51 am

               Very little institutional power is held by the so-called CJ crowd.

               Interesting – I would have thought the OP at least some evidence to the contrary.

               The point that resonates for me in Lindsay’s article is this:

               Debate and conversation, especially when they rely upon reason, rationality, science, evidence, epistemic adequacy, and other Enlightenment-based tools of persuasion are the very thing they think produced injustice in the world in the first place. Those are not their methods and they reject them.

               But all this is drifting OT.
               • Drowsy M. Kram …

                 11 February 2021 at 12:09 pm

                 Agree re drift, although since you introduced Lindsay it does seem to me that if he was asked to opine on whether the amount of institutional power held by the so-called 'Critical Social Justice' crowd was too little, too much, or just right, then it's unlikely that he would opt for 'too little'.

                 Just another symptom of 'reluctance to share' behaviours, imho.

                 Using the Iceberg Model to unpack Power

                 The inquiry group looking at healthy power identified some of these patterns contributing to the behaviours we’re witnessing. It was suggested that we’re living in a distorted, unhealthy ‘power over’ culture that has a fear-based reluctance to share power. We’re noticing that invisible power and privilege is difficult to recognise and address, and that there is a lack of availability for non-traditional sources of power to take up roles of governance and responsibility. The current conditions around the COVID-19 and the climate crisis are making it easy to default to patterns of domination, oppression, avoidance and disengagement.

                 By looking at the structures and at the ways of thinking underpinning some of these behaviours seen in the world today, we can move towards understanding the roots and drivers of some of our dysfunctional, unsustainable and unhealthy patterns of behaviour. This scarcity mindset is an example of the lower (most hidden) level of the iceberg. It is a deeply-rooted shared assumption about how the system works, embedded in and reinforced by the way our structures have been designed. This sense that we do not have enough — enough power, money, resources, time and capacity — is at the root of some of the dysfunctional behaviours we see at the top of the iceberg.

                 https://medium.com/boundless-roots/using-the-iceberg-model-to-unpack-power-e99259e25d13
                 • RedLogix …

                   11 February 2021 at 12:14 pm

                   I've had the time to read that Aeromagazine link from above. Strikes a nice balance I can definitely agree with. Good linky thanks.

                   I've said here many times in the past, that excesses on both sides of the spectrum – but especially on the left – feed on each other.

                   My problem with the term ‘systemic xxx’ is that all too often it’s ill-defined. It’s neither located in the bad behaviour of the individual, nor the policies of the institutions and no-one can point to it.

                   Instead we use it as an invisible totem to invoke a universal explanation for all differences in outcomes. When almost always it’s not the only, or certainly even the best explanation.

                   The invisible nature of ‘systemic’ means that too often it easily becomes a stand-in for ‘the sum of all our worst fears’.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     11 February 2021 at 12:42 pm

                     Do you mean that the excesses of ‘the left’ feed ‘the right’, and vice versa? Why "especially on the left"? Is it because the excesses of the left are greater, or because the right are hungrier?

                     Or do you mean that excesses on both 'sides' of the left-right spectrum self-amplify?

                     If would be helpful if you could elaborate (briefly) on the nature of these excesses, and why you believe that the excesses of the left have more, what – effect?
                 • RedLogix …

                   11 February 2021 at 12:26 pm

                   Allow me to quote one pertinent comment from the thread below that article:

                   Well there is one huge difference.

                   Post-truth Trumpist right spreads mostly through the bottom castes of the society. They have little power and best they could have done was to elect Trump for one turn. Trump hasn’t succeeded much in fighting CSJ, neither he brought any form of fascistic dictatorship.

                   CSJ spreads exclusively through the elites. Universities, politicians, journalists, celebrities. This means that in long term it has a vastly bigger potential to impact or even shape the decision making process of western countries and societies.
                   • Drowsy M. Kram …

                     11 February 2021 at 12:53 pm

                     Still not sure why one would want to fight critical social justice. Is it something to do with the "critical"?
3. Robert Guyton 3

   11 February 2021 at 9:49 am

   Beautiful: hard-core, hard-case. Not lacking at all in experience, ambition and drive! Solid support too. Plus, she's got a sense of humour; what's not to like?
   • JanM 3.1

     11 February 2021 at 11:24 am

     
   • shanreagh 3.2

     12 February 2021 at 8:53 pm

     Looking forward to see her career as a politician, As Robert says 'what's not to like?'

     I'm impressed.
4. swordfish 4

   11 February 2021 at 12:30 pm

   .
   Meanwhile, as Upper-Middle Class Pakeha Intersectionals (the very people who, of course, have disproportionately inherited the wealth from Colonisation) … as these highly privileged virtue-signalling modern-day Riks from The Young Ones ostentatiously fetishize, sacralize & romanticise Maori in the usual orgy of paternalistic prestige-enhancement across social media … as they go about the important task of mutually acknowledging each other's elevated social status … my Elderly Parents have had to endure yet another night of violent intimidation & sleep deprivation from their Male Maori Neighbour in Social Housing on the other side of their dividing-wall … unfortunately they're stuck with real live Toxic Underclass Maori Masculinity (so clearly influenced by Warrior Culture) rather than the Romanticised / Sanitised Peter Pan Fantasy versions that affluent Pakeha Woke employ as a social marker to signal their own moral purity.

   … 3 years of extreme stress & trauma resulted in my 90 yo Mother almost dying in a Wellington Hospital ICU unit in October last year … this sadistic little psychopath's whanau then moved him away (seemingly permanently) to Levin a few weeks later & everyone … Parents, me, Neighbours, friends, our wider Family … breathed a massive sigh of relief, believing it was all over … his 60-something grandmother had swapped houses with him & she proved to be extremely quiet … the most glaring contrast you could think of … 6 weeks of quiet & a real sense of safety & peace of mind for the first time in 3 yrs … then, to everyone's shock, he suddenly arrives back late at night on Boxing Day & precisely the same violent, dysfunctional behaviour … right back to square one … no sign of his grandmother … & everyone wondering if Ngati Toa (who've taken over HNZ duties in the region) are the ones who intervened to bring him back & resume my Parents' Nightmare. Precisely zero consequences for this protected little Sadist: (see entire thread below):

   (1) swordfish on Twitter: "90 yo Mother & 89 yo Father have just suffered another night of violent intimidation from Social Housing Tenant on other side of dividing wall…1am-6am violent slamming of doors & into walls, loud swearing in/outside, angry haka-like stomping (see thread below 4 brief context):" / Twitter

   Meanwhile, 2 other violent Underclass Maori Men who've moved into HNZ housing in the last couple of years … both of them, like this little psychopath, associated with a Mongrel Mob that also continues to be outrageously romanticised by heroic Pakeha Upper-Middle Professionals to signal their "unusually refined sensibilities" … are causing their own mayhem in my Parents' previously quiet & very socially-minded street … on-going violence against women associates out on the street that has forced various neighbours to intervene (& be viciously abused & threatened with violent retribution for their trouble) & now a possible murder inquiry … with a Police Forensic team apparently combing the property of one of these men a few weeks ago for evidence of a woman who had gone missing.

   And, of course, while all this is happening, the affluent & "uniquely morally good" Woke of the (Fake) "Left" courageously ensure they're living at least 50 miles from the mayhem & extreme stress they're enabling & tacitly cheerleading in lower & mixed income suburbs.

   My Mother, (like my Grandmother) a lifelong Labour activist, one of the first Pakeha to learn Te Reo in a formal educational setting (late 1940s), always highly sympathetic, interested in & encouraging towards Maori cultural revival way before her time … I'm fucking speechless at the disgusting irony that at her age she's forced to live through this nightmare at the hands of a violent Maori thug … while the inheritors of Colonial Wealth not only do all the virtue-signalling but have now created a cultural hegemony that deems all Maori eternally virtuous & innocent (because Colonisation), thus making it virtually impossible for this fucking intolerable situation to even be discussed. Key reason why we felt we couldn't go to The Dom Post to publicise. That's how power's employed by ruthlessly self-interested Upper-Middles, I guess. Really Orwellian subversion of right & wrong.

   The hypocrisy, the cowardice & the covert sadism of people who claim to be "Progressive".
5. shanreagh 5

   12 February 2021 at 8:49 pm

   This @ swordfish

   I am concerned that you have chosen the thread about the maiden speech of Dr Elizabeth Kerekere to expound this sad tale.

   Is it because she is Maori, and 'all Maori are representative of all other Maori good and bad' but we seem to be able to accept those of other races have good people and bad people?

   Is it because as a a Green politician that she is regarded as progressive?

   or

   Is it because you wanted to rain on the parade of this intriguing, driven and happy person who we are lucky enough to have in our latest bunch of MPs?

   I am sure that had you raised some of your very valid points in Open Mike we could have had a caring and informed debate that could have helped find a way forward.

   Presumably you have raised all the points you have made here with the landlord?

   Ngati Toa are administering the land in western Porirua ie Titahi Bay, Mana and Tawa. I think the remaining tenancies are still with Kainga Ora.

   https://kaingaora.govt.nz/news/porirua-homes-to-be-upgraded-through-housing-partnership/

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