web analytics

Expand Five Eyes

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 1st, 2020 - 70 comments
Categories: China, uk politics, uncategorized, us politics - Tags:

With the growing assertions by the Chinese government across the eastern Pacific including in Hong Kong and our own repudiation of an extradition treaty, there are now calls to expand the Five Eyes intelligence network to include Japan.

There’s been discussion about this since at least 2018, with an excellent piece for the Japan Times by Arther Herman of the Hudson Institute.

It’s time to accelerate that move. This alliance gives mutual access between members to intelligence activities, as well as promoting further military interoperability, creating powerful ties that the digital age both allows and encourages.

We have to face that China as a rapidly rising giant requires sharper and sharper responses as the heat of its sun rises closer. For its part, China believes there is zero relationship between doing business internationally and how it manages its citizens. China’s Ambassador to New Zealand Wu Xi made this crystal clear last week:

“Instead of trying to change or remodel each other, we respect each other. As comprehensive strategic partners, China and New Zealand should continue to maintain strategic commitment in difficult times and support each other on issues of sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

“Pursuing a zero sum game and portraying others as enemies will lead nowhere and will only harm common interests. No matter how the international situation may evolve, China will remain committed to a path of peaceful development.”

That, taken at face value, is a whole bunch more diplomatic than the divisive belligerence of Mr Pompeo the U.S. Secretary of State when he talks about China these days. But then, China always requires silence and neutrality from the weak. The proper word for that silence is: obedience.

So far, New Zealand remains a kite in the wind blown one way and the next, insisting that we can both trade freely and be part of regimes that propose cooperation and containment. It’s our necessary ambiguity.

But even previous Prime Minister Helen Clark’s World Health Organisation investigation into the origin and responses of Covid 19 will likely have major diplomatic blowback from China. This pandemic is the most consequential event in the 21st century and it’s only just begun, and its own geopolitics is growing too.

One may say: New Zealand can continue on this path forever, ignoring winds of trade cooperation, economic contest, and national ideological opposition chopping high like the Wellington harbour tide running out against a southerly. But the Five Eyes or Six Eyes grouping brings that chop into hard focus. The goal must be both containment of China’s force, but also cooperation on all other areas including trade, investment, health and scientific research, food resources, and environmental research. As China continues to grow in power over us, we will need to regularly recalculate and recalibrate this balance.

Super-intelligence, cyer manoeuvering, and soft power messaging are the weapons of now and of the future. All sides are fighting this through the subtle world of cyberattacks and hacking. Sure, the world of warships and militarised islands is important. But China’s strategic goals are no longer achieved through hard power. Instead, as Sun Tsu’s Art of War reminds us constantly, China’s strategic goals are achieved by the non-confrontational means of spying, deceit, and subduing without fighting.

It’s likely that the moderate voices in Beijing will continue their goal of achieving some balancing up against longstanding domination by Western institutions. They’ll protect and slowly expand China’s historic sovereign areas and seek to share with other nations in peace. They’ll cement this in with the concrete-and-steel of the belt-and-road to bind the interests of Russia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Iran, Malaysia, the Philippines, African states and more into a balancing of U.S. hegemonic influence …
… maybe in the deep long term better convergence of political systems and philosophies rather than conflicts.

But until then it’s in the interests of the strong democracies like Canada and Japan and ourselves to make China see the wisdom of this moderate path rather than the belligerence of the United States current regime or China’s embarrassingly absurd defensiveness exemplified by our Ambassador Wu.

China will keep hectoring and bullying us if we are weak and don’t muscle up our intelligence capacity. God knows after Christchurch and Covid 19 our intelligence and defence agencies are due for the most almighty shakeup. So until we get our intelligence shit together (we won’t), the best curb is the existence of an ever-more watchful ring of “eyes” to match and expose Chinese subterfuge, and to check China’s habit of soothingly saying one thing and ruthlessly doing another.

New Zealand is beset by, in William Shakespeare’s phrase, “overmighty subjects”, which since our very beginning we have resisted by being formally part of far greater alliances. We need partners who are customers to trade into recovery from our current calamity. But we also need, more and more, to sustain and build our defensive intelligence capacity within the massively intensifying digital contests for our health, our banking, our personal data, our identities.

What we and the world need is for China to prosper but not to bully. Now more than ever our economic recovery and revival will be hugely dependent on an early return to healthy Chinese growth.

We also need guardians of power and of data to avoid more disruptions to the delicate balances of today’s network world upon which we utterly depend. Expanding Five Eyes as an alliance is an ideal move to achieve this.

70 comments on “Expand Five Eyes ”

  1. Byd0nz 1

    Better to dump 5 eyes, fuck the spies, propaganda and lies. Falling into Pompeo's trap spells crap crap crap.Regarding Hong Kong, well…….
    Shouldn't be a surprise to any one surely. Hong kong is part of China, Internationally accepted as so, get used to it. Hong Kong is however, the soft underbelly of China where foreign NGOs have poured millions of dollars and American flags for the young protesters to wave in their right wing rebellion, a rebellion led and mostly followed by young people whos brains have yet to reach the age of maturity. The real story about Hong Kong is the battle of the Capitalist for world hegemony, on one side the Capitalist West led by Uncle Sam and Capitalist China, noting here that the second 'C' in CCP should be 'Capitalist', as China is Communist in name only. Like it or not about Hong Kong, you just going to have to swallow it, because China is not about to be usurped by the so called Democracy Movement who will soon be abandoned by their foreign exploiters. So the pink left wingers here would be better to put their energy into making sure the Nats and co never ever take power again, because as the fight for World domination heats up, Uncle Sam will surely want to put military bases here in NZ and it would be a Nat Government that would facilitate that.

    • Tricledrown 1.1

      Yeah Right what about all the CCP donations to National then.

      We are in one camp or the other.

      Ditching the US would open us up to more influence from the CCP.

  2. Hanswurst 2

    After reading this post, I am none the wiser as to how China's apparently subtle spying and deceit is any different from what other nations do, beyond a borderline racist handwave that they will do stuff just like Sun Tsu. I can just imagine some chap in China saying, "The American, like Jesus, will go about healing lepers, rather than concentrating on the real threats confronting the nation". The post starts off implying that it would be a good thing for Japan to join Five Eyes, then goes off on a tangent as to why NZ (maybe) needs some sort of Five-Eyes-style arrangement (which, last I checked, it already has), and then states that being in Five Eyes (or making Five Eyes into Six Eyes, or something) is an ideal way of making China behave as a Liberal Bourgeois Democrat would wish.

    As to why intensifying spying would have that effect… no idea. To "match and expose China's subterfuge" seems like a weird goal in that regard. Exposing any subterfuge is probably a good thing, but getting Five Eyes to "match" it? Why do we want to trade Chinese subterfuge for subterfuge by other world powers? It's hard to see what the thesis of this article is, beyond, "The Chinese are evil spies who must be spied on". Ah well, it's probably just an attempt to get strident responses from self-declared lefties who are reflexively anti-US, and therefore pro-China in a "the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend" sort of way. At least, viewed through that prism, it suddenly becomes a lucid and stretegically structured article, rather than a stream of consciousness.

    • Dennis Frank 2.1

      A very good critique & analysis! Yet an essay writer on a political blog needs only pose interesting questions. Providing answers is often beside the point.

      "China’s strategic opportunism continues to destabilise its periphery", according to the Director of Geo-Economics and Strategy and Japan Chair for the International Institute for Strategic Studies. https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/2020/06/japan-long-term-foreign-policy

      I somehow doubt that `destabilise your periphery' is one of Sun Tzu's dictums. Edgy moves on imperial boundaries are liable to provoke barbarians. But it is always possible that Xi sees himself as an innovator, keen to stir things up.

      In 2020 Japan will experience its most brutal recession since the end of World War II. Economic ground lost in the 2020 downturn is unlikely to be regained until 2022 at the earliest.

      The main opinion polls in Japan show a decline in support for Abe’s Cabinet over 2020. An unprecedented fourth term as president of the Liberal Democratic Party now looks unlikely for him. This partly reflects Abe fatigue – he is already Japan’s longest-serving prime minister. But his domestic policy agenda has also lost steam.

      The pandemic has scuppered Abe's push to reform Japan’s Constitution. Abenomics, his signature economic reboot program and keystone of his appeal to voters, is also flagging.

      This suggests Japan may be turning further inward, making a bold move such as joining 5 Eyes increasingly unlikely.

      • Ad 2.1.1

        The Japanese Defence Minister has openly sought an invitation from the Five Eyes group to join them. He made that request last week.

        The occasion was at the seminar fo the China Reserach Group held in the UK last week.

        The Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee f the British Parliament, Mr Tugendart, responded: "We should allow trusted partners to join the alliance. We should seize every opportunity, and cooperate more closely with Japan."


        So ti is under active discussion both from the Japanese government, and within a key Five Eyes partner. It is really unusual to hear of this kind of intelligence security alliance being spoken about in open forum at a very senior elected member level.

        That puts it in the more-likely-to-happen category.

        • Dennis Frank

          Okay, that's a big move! Perhaps it reflects deep thought in recent years in Japan's foreign policy establishment. Perhaps a non-partisan consensus lies behind it.

    • Ad 2.2

      You're one of those people who likes lots of links that are as plain as possible.

      New Zealand now has a specific warning against travel to Hong Kong.


      At the same time, the New Zealand government changed its policy on military and dual-use goods and technology exports to Hong Kong, subjecting the city to the same as the People’s Republic of China (PRC). No explanation was given.

      And straight after the New Zealand gave the travel warning, and that ban on military and dual use technology, National's Simon Bridges, also made comments supportive of the government’s position, as did the leader of ACT, David Seymour.


      So all parties in parliament agree the threat level has gone up. That unanimity is remarkably rare.

      That unanimity of politics about the threat change China now represents puts us three years behind Australia. Australia's Federal government agreed on this across Parliament in 2017, once they figured out how deep the influence of China on their politics had grown.


      Professor Ann Marie Brady has been writing about Chinese government political interference in our politics for a while here, including in this detailed submission on our local government elections:


      You can go ahead and argue with that and claim it's all racist or something.

      In other papers she also goes through the published works of Xi Jinping and his associates and shows how they are carrying them out.

      We have had multiple fundraising scandals over two local and national elections, all with Chinese mainland funding sources. They came close to taking out several party leaders.

      But we like to think we're too good, too virtuous, too anti-racist, too neutral and too small a place that international politics couldn't possibly happen here. What a joyful conceit we run.

      Our own government's diplomatic responses under Ardern have been subtle, but collectively over this term have distinct patterns and frameworks:


      But hey, go ahead and talk about the post as something just intended to get some imaginary "left" excited.

      • RedLogix 2.2.1

        But we like to think we're too good, too virtuous, too anti-racist, too neutral and too small a place that international politics couldn't possibly happen here. What a joyful conceit we run.

        I so wish I had written that. yes

      • Hanswurst 2.2.2

        I get enough links to read, including about China. I'm usually only inclined to click through to them if the person recommending them puts up a coherent thesis to convince me of why I should bother to do so.

      • Mark 2.2.3

        How many countries has the US invaded post-war compared to China

        The US has 800 military. China has one.

        Yet China is the main threat?

        Yep that is racist. Its white supremacist. Any non-white country on the rise must be 'contained'

        • Incognito

          Stupid whataboutery is a deliberate evasion from the OP and debate in good faith. You’re heading for the Exit if you keep this up.

  3. barry 3

    5-eyes is toxic and has never showed any measurable benefit for NZ.

    The best evidence is that the US knew about the impending Rainbow Warrior bombing in 1985 and didn't pass the information on to the NZ government as required by the then incarnation of the agreement.

    Our "security" services lie to the government and carry out illegal acts with impunity. They are captured by their 5-eyes counterparts and show more allegiance them than us. They failed to stop the Christchurch killings because they follow 5-eyes priorities (which are more anti-islam) rather than thinking about the threats that are relevant to NZ.

    China is flexing its muscles and behaving badly (Particularly to its own people). However, a lot of it it s in response to provocation from abroad, particularly from other 5-eyes nations. NZ does not need to take sides, we can criticise China more effectively if we are known for our impartiality. As a part of 5-eyes, everything we say is seen as an extension of US aggression.

  4. RedLogix 4

    Great post Ad. I really appreciate the time and thought that goes into much of your work. Of course it will attract like flies the reflexive anti-Americans who having spent decades dumping on the USA (often with justification), but cannot see how Xi Xinping has pivoted the PRC from a constructive, growing member of the global community, to something substantially more threatening than the USA.

    And far too many people have been dazzled by the rapid growth, the sparkly modern Chinese coastal cities and the superficial wealth, while failing to appreciate that all of this was only possible in a geopolitical environment created largely by the US post WW2 global trade order. And that now this security guarantee is being withdrawn, the immutable laws of geography, demographics and military defense are going to assert themselves with a new vengeance.

    In reality the PRC is in a much weaker position than it likes to project. In every important respect their underlying geopolitical position is a perfect storm of bad news. In the view of some commentators I respect a lot, this is the real reason for Xi Xinping's aggressive stance, it's has somewhat more to do with stoking ultra-nationalist sentiments at home and protecting the CCP from internal threat, than actual conflict with other nations. At least in the short term. It is of course a dangerous game.

    None of this exonerates the USA. Despite it's outsize influence in the world, it's core problem is that it's unique geography, conferring both security and wealth no matter how badly the American's try to fuck it up, mean that they have never had to be particularly good or competent at governing themselves in order to become prosperous. Generations of this logic has now taken them to the nadir they have demonstrably arrived at.

    But ultimately I have no time for those who would pretend NZ can somehow not take sides. The days when we could do 'security by obscurity' are long gone; we will soon have to pick a side, even if none of the choices appeal much.

    We need to keep our eye on a desired outcome for all of this; ultimately the age of the superpower must be brought to an end. We must ultimately transition to a system of federated global governance that permanently brings to an end the use of war (and all of it's variants). This means a world is which neither the PRC or the USA are engaged in a competitive struggle for supremacy. But getting there is neither obvious nor easy, in the meantime NZ must work to survive the very turbulent decade we face with the tools on offer. This means a strong regional alliance to counterbalance an expansionary and threatening PRC. Most of the components of this are in place; it's the logical extension of what you write here Ad.

    Michael Beckly offers a balanced dive into more of the details; if you get past the slightly click baity title it's well worth the 27 min:


    • Ad 4.1

      Cheers Red – I'll take a look once I've finished baking my fish pie for tonight's Labour mindwinter fundraiser.

    • Dennis Frank 4.2

      Haven't watched the vid yet but I'd prefer a three-sided scenario! Trouble with 5-eyes as a binary scheme is that it makes us more vulnerable to American macho stances & collateral damage. British hand-braking on the cowboys may still work somewhat, but on some slippery slopes the hand-brake seems insufficient…

      • RedLogix 4.2.1

        A SE Asian alliance is the third leg you are looking for. Japan, India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Australia and NZ would make for a significant entity, with considerable geopolitical leverage.

        Yes the Americans would be involved, mostly via logistic and a supply perspective (I doubt very much the Americans want to engage in actual combat in Asia), but a formal regional alliance would provide considerable counterbalance against both PRC expansionary ambitions, and US macho. Not perfectly I agree, but it's the best offer in town.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.2

        Trouble with 5-eyes as a binary scheme is that it makes us more vulnerable to American macho stances & collateral damage.

        Yes, I'd much prefer an alliance with other nations who are more interested neutrality and staying out of war but being willing to go to war when needed.

      • RedLogix 4.2.3

        The other alliance configuration on offer is this:

        CANZUK International was founded in January 2015 as The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organisation, and is the world’s leading non-profit organisation advocating facilitated migration, free trade and foreign policy coordination between Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom (the “CANZUK” countries).

        Our campaign advocates closer cooperation between these four nations so they may build upon existing economic, diplomatic and institutional ties to forge a cohesive alliance of nation-states with a truly global outlook.


        If you read carefully, this proposal has more legs than most people realise, with all the Parliaments involved having already made expressions of interest at least in principle.

        I can see no fundamental reason why we couldn't run both a SE Asian and CANZUK alliances in parallel; there are no obvious conflicts of interest.

        • greywarshark

          What have we got in common – all English speakers, so we know the official and unofficial meanings of all the words used in communication, a sort of unofficial code. The United States of America is not in it, but through its vassal country the UK, it will still have a presence, perhaps an empty chair will be left at the table symbolically.

        • Ad

          The relevant one that already promotes economic, political and security cooperation in our region is ASEAN:


          Australia and ourselves should seek an invitation to be a full member of that.

          • RedLogix


            Now imagine a world with three major regional groupings, ASEAN, NAFTA and whatever happens to the EU with the UK sitting on one side of that. (The UK may well have committed to Brexit, but they have yet to unmoor their island from it's location on the Atlantic edge of Europe.)

            Now overlay this with CANZUK. Aus/NZ would link into the Asian region, Canada into the NAFTA zone, and the UK with Europe. All with a reasonably secure shipping route across the Pacific, the Northwest passage or train across Canada, and then across the Atlantic into the UK. All very doable from a geopolitical perspective.

            My point is that we have far more options open to us that just piously hoping we can be 'neutral' in a world that would see such a stance as nothing but the abject weakness it really is.

            • Dennis Frank

              we have far more options open to us that just piously hoping we can be 'neutral' in a world that would see such a stance as nothing but the abject weakness it really is

              Whereas I have been advocating Aotearoa as non-aligned, that was merely in response to the habitual binary framing most commentators use. I agree that the options you outlined are a more sophisticated framing for transcending the binary strait-jacket.

              Getting Labour & National up to speed on that will be a task for the future – probably necessitating younger players to leverage the outcome.

              I watched Beckley's vid for about 10 mins. The pacing was good but insufficient substance became evident, then I noticed his voice was competing with backing music: a sign of poor technique (cf TVNZ promos for 7 Sharp – or 7 Blunt, if you prefer honesty). So I googled the guy & it became evident that he's merely a yank propagandist doing spin for their establishment to leverage a career in foreign policy.


              That said, I agree his pitch is a useful counterbalance to their usual gung ho propaganda & scaremongering re China from Trumpists. I just get too impatient when thesis presentation seems like a toddler making a castle out of a pile of building blocks. 😒

              • RedLogix

                I just get too impatient when thesis presentation seems like a toddler making a castle out of a pile of building blocks.

                I realise that geopolitics probably lacks a certain cerebral piquancy that you'd prefer, but the continuity of nations rests on certain basic foundational blocks, geography, demography and security. The post-WW2 US trade order, by providing an almost universal security of trade guarantee to all nations, largely subdued their import. To the extent most people stopped including them in the frame. Politics, personalities and cultural polarisation rose to dominate the discourse, especially in the post Cold War period.

                While the basics of geopolitics may seem like playthings to you, their relevancy is only going to become more intense in this coming decade, reasserting their old power. It's probably worth your time to refresh your acquaintance with them.

          • Anne

            And it is going to happen… both in political, economical and biological terms.

            If we could return in 100 years time – provided we haven't blown ourselves up or fried to death due to lack of CC action – we would not recognise the country both in terms of economic activity and population transformation.

    • Mpk 4.3

      I'm slightly curious about all the bellicosity revolving around China's "increasingly aggressive stance" so I held my nose and clicked through a couple of your Guardian links. They seem to amount to closing a US embassy, a deadly border dispute with India, cooling diplomatic relations with the UK and the new Hong Kong law. If this is aggression then please excuse my laughter. The embassy closure was in response to a US closure, the Indian border dispute was admitted as an incursion by India and occurred as hand to hand combat as agreed by the two parties as the way that border fighting will be conducted as a way to prevent escalation. Cooling diplomatic relations are a 2 way thing which really only leaves Hong Kong. Perhaps you dont accept that Hong Kong is now part of China and hence our change in the way we view extradition and trade in military capable goods. So that makes this an internal problem and therefore not agressive as far as world politics are concerned. There are many States that demonstrate aggression beyond their borders but China is not one.

      India/China dispute

    • Mark 4.4

      China has no wish to rule the world. China just wants to be left alone, and not be at risk of being pluinged into civil war through Western sabotage and wrecking such as what has happened in Hong Kong

      China could not give a fuck for how New Zealand or the US manages its own affairs. Does China ever speak out about indigenous or black imprisonment rates in the West? No. So why does the West, including New Zealand harp on about so-called human rights in China, about Tibet, Xinjiang, and Hong Kong.

      If New Zealand does not appreciate so called Chinese 'influence' (which in reality is just a point of view), in NZ, then surely we are being utterly hypocritical in lecturing Xi Jinping on Xinjiang etc?

      Its only the anglosphere that adopts this annoying busy-body approach. Don't see the Africans, other Asians, or Russians, Cubans worrying about how China governs China.

  5. Draco T Bastard 5

    We need partners who are customers to trade into recovery from our current calamity.

    A properly developed nation is not dependent upon trade.

    In fact, we could take the drop in trade from the covid19 and utilise the freed up resources to truly become independent. To fully develop our internal economy.

    • Incognito 5.1

      You’re not against international trade per se, are you?

      • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

        No, I think its a nice to have.

        But detrimental to become dependent upon it.

    • Ad 5.2

      Whatever "properly developed" means in your mind, it doesn't include New Zealand.

      So for the foreseeable future, international trade is our simple necessity. And for that we need partners to protect that trade capacity.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1

        Whatever "properly developed" means

        Being non-dependent upon trade means that we can provide what we need without importation. So, food, clothing, computers*, etcetera – all made here from our resources.

        * Our burgeoning tech industry shows that we can do it – just need the fabrication plants and ore extraction and processing.

  6. Stuart Munro 6

    It's always difficult to tell how much value one gets from intelligence services. Here in NZ they seem to have concentrated their efforts on inoffensive persons like Keith Locke, while leaving CCP infiltration in the too-hard basket, no doubt in part for want of the requisite language skills.

    As far as pernicious foreign interest goes, the leading local malefactor seems to be the OIO, an institution so round-heeled one has to look very hard indeed to find an instance of their declining an application, however manifestly against the public interest. And the result is that gross environmental abuses like the Timaru outfall are being backed through courts with truckloads of foreign cash, and to hell with the local community.

    A couple of dozen more spooks with software toys like Palantir aren't going to do much to improve that. And the service budget was already expanded massively under Key without improving the public experience. So before buying a truckload more of their services, they really need to make a case that promises some actual benefit. I wouldn't thank you for their current performance.

    • Ad 6.1

      The OIO is not an intelligence agency.

      But as I noted above, our government suspended both the extradition treaty and the export of military technology and dual use technology.


      “Firstly, we are changing how we treat the export of sensitive goods to Hong Kong. From now on, we will treat military and dual-use goods and technology exports to Hong Kong in the same way as we treat those exports to China. Secondly, we have updated our travel advice to alert New Zealanders to the risks presented by the National Security Law.”

      You will hopefully be aware that this has been brought into sharp relief through the Pacific Aerospace export of planes to China which have now been transformed into military drones, and Pacific Aerospace are aghast:


      So no, the Timaru outfall isn't relevant to Five Eyes.

      But the sale of military technology to China is.

      • Stuart Munro 6.1.1

        One can construe these things in different ways.

        I'm inclined to consider that intelligence agencies that only consider threats identified by our senior partners in the five eyes alliance fundamentally lacking in local relevance.

        Your suggestion of bringing Japan into fold makes sense, though it may come at some cost across much of the rest of Asia. Korea is a partner with considerable skill in relations with China – the so-called lips and teeth relationship goes back to dynastic times, and if Korea were excluded while admitting Japan, they might be a little put out.

        Then again, I consider neoliberalism a threat – it's done damage to NZ beyond the wildest dreams of the most Svengalian agent provocateur, and while it is allowed free reign to continue damaging our country, supporting a security intelligence apparatus to allegedly protect us is frankly fatuous.

      • Stuart Munro 6.1.2

        I'm not sure that military technology is particularly pertinent to us – not being a great repository of that early twentieth century miracle, the secret weapon.

        The threat to us is more industrial – as Korea, who have a bit of experience with China, could tell you.

        And that is why the OIO is a fatal weakness in our intelligence PPE. Created for a romantic time, when free market pretentions were entertained, it is not equipped to rebuff full court mercantilism. On the contarary, it is set up to encourage capital inflows that could be used to sustain the mirage of growth, which, with every country printing money now, has become irrelevant.

  7. Tiger Mountain 7

    Was the -sarc- tag left off Ad’s post? It cannot be serious…6 Eyes? Japan asked to join the Anglosphere…state snoops always serve the ruling class before the interests of the mass of the citizens.

    A new 21st century non aligned movement of smaller countries would be worth investigating for trade and peaceful relations.

    • Ad 7.1

      Go ahead and set out:

      – who that would be,

      – how it would work, and

      – why it would serve our interests better than the current arrangement.

  8. Morrissey 8

    We have to face that China as a rapidly rising giant requires sharper and sharper responses as the heat of its sun rises closer.

    Did you write that yourself, Advantage? Or did you lift it verbatim from a Pompeo rant?

    • Ad 8.1

      Unlike you, I think. That's where it's necessary to critique allies, as I do here:

      "…the divisive belligerence of Mr Pompeo…"

      and here:

      "…the belligerence of the United States current regime…"

      and here:

      "…a balancing of U.S. hegemonic influence …"

      and here

      "… longstanding domination by Western institutions…"

      But top marks for your star barking turn as the unreflexive performing seal of the confused left without the mental capacity to read more than four paragraphs into a piece.

      • Morrissey 8.1.1

        You also refer to "the strong democracies like Canada and Japan." Surely you don't expect anyone to take you seriously on that?

        Or does supporting the Trump regime's (failed) attempt to undermine the democratically elected government of Venezuela mean Canada is not as it appears to be, i.e. an embarrassingly pliant "good neighbour" fronted by a lickspittle, but is instead a "strong democracy"?


        • Andre

          performing seal… hah! More like:

          • Morrissey

            Your analysis and wit are still at the same exalted standard, Andre. Thought up any other excruciatingly funny names to call President Drumpf lately?

            • Andre

              I've seen a few that caught my eye, but posting them here would be going too far off-topic. They may make an appearance in other threads where they're more relevant.

        • Incognito

          You also refer to "the strong democracies like Canada and Japan." Surely you don't expect anyone to take you seriously on that?

          Did you see a satire or \sarc tag anywhere?

          Address the content of the OP and commentary and don’t divert to one of your hobby horses if/when you can’t cope/deal with said content.

          • Morrissey

            Did you see a satire or \sarc tag anywhere?

            I didn't. Obviously it was an oversight. The contention that Canada and Japan are "strong democracies" is beyond parody, surely.

            [Your contribution under this post is worse than a troll parody. Come back on Monday Troll Day, thanks – Incognito]

      • Mark 8.1.2

        Its clear Ad, that you see China as a great threat. But based on what.

        Do you know that China was a victim of Western imperialism, exploitation for a century. Indeed that is what gave rise to the Chinese revolution.

        USA: 800 military bases. China: 1

        That you see China as the threat shows you to up to be a closet white supremacist


        That you see China as the threat shows you to up to be a closet white supremacist

        That tops off the trifecta of stupid troll comments under this post with a nice personal attack on the Author.

        See you in the New Year, the ‘white supremacist’ New Year that is – Incognito]

  9. Spikeyboy 9

    It seems that there is at least some recognition that the USA is part of the problem. For instance, the 400 odd military bases surrounding China could be construed as some kind of bear cage into which sharp sticks can be poked. For some reason, the resulting anger and rage is then taken as a sign that the animal should be put down.

    Many posters here seem to be happy with alliances and groupings of countries that include the country supplying the sharp sticks. These people seem uninterested in the way the bear percieves the world. Any grouping that doesn't include the view of China is doomed to failure. Adding Japan to 5 eyes is a particularly large and sharp stick and can only result in ratcheting up tensions. Mike Pompeo will be very pleased. But is helping to bring on the rapture really a priority for us?

    [Please stick to the user name that you have used before, thanks – Incognito]

    [Moderators, especially this one, get really suspicious when they see comments coming from supposedly different commenters using the same IP address under the same OP. They, especially this one, become even more suspicious when this behaviour connects to a commenter who has been banned permanently on this site previously. You’ll have some explaining to do if you and your alias want to keep your commenting privilege here – Incognito]

    • Incognito 9.1

      [Please stick to the user name that you have used before, thanks – Incognito]

    • Incognito 9.2

      See my other Moderation note @ 4:43 PM.

      • Sacha 9.2.1

        comments coming from supposedly different commenters using the same IP address under the same OP

        That is so corrosive to good faith discussion.

  10. Gawd this thread is depressing!

    Just saying. It reminds me of regular saturday morning pub sessions 45 years ago with the father-in-law's ex-military/intelligence mates discussing their lillies and crysanthemums and reminiscing about the war. Preservation of the Empire

    Let's do it all again shall we? Where's Wayne ….. please …. come back with your sage commentary on realpolitik. All is forgiven

    Shit! Did I say that out loud?

  11. PaddyOT 11

    "They’ll protect and slowly expand China’s historic sovereign areas and seek to share with other nations in peace. They’ll cement this in with the concrete-and-steel of the belt-and-road to bind the interests …rather than conflicts."

    The case of Ecuador having to choose between two world powers ( if you don’t count the IMF.)

    The ' Belt and Roads' type deals/gifts that keep on giving to impoverished nations -enviromental devastation, deforestation, oil pollution, resource depletion, deaths, corruption, 7,648 cracks in a dam below a volcano and life in poverty peeling beans to keep paying for the deal.


    2020 With easy podcast.
    Like someone had a late night party and bought a …..lemon.

  12. RedLogix 12

    Another geopolitical angle on NZ's changing regional role, and the potentially interesting implications of the recent scientific recognition of the Zealandia continent.


Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Government offers formal apology for Dawn Raids
    A formal and unreserved apology for the Dawn Raids The Government will offer education scholarships as part of the apology Manaaki New Zealand Short Term Scholarship Training courses Support Pacific artists and historians to develop a comprehensive written and oral account of the Dawn Raids Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Speech to Dawn Raids Apology
    Tēnā koutou katoa, Kia orana kotou katoatoa, Fakaalofa lahi atu ki mutolu oti, Tālofa nī, Mālō nī koutou, Ni sa bula vinaka, Fakatalofa atu, Noa'ia 'e mauri, Kam na mauri, Malo e lelei, Sioto'ofa, Mālō lava le lagi e mamā ma le soifua maua, Oue tulou, tulou atu, tulouna lava ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Bridging the gap – last piece of Northcote Safe Cycle Route now complete
    The opening of two bridges over Auckland’s Northern Motorway is the last link of a cycling and walking route which provides a safe, active alternative for students and commuters, Transport Minister Michael Wood said today. Michael Wood cut the ribbon for the completion of the Northcote Safe Cycle Route, at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Progress in establishment of Aged Care Commissioner
    Recruitment for an Aged Care Commissioner will start next month, to ensure greater oversight of New Zealand’s aged care sector. “This sector is responsible for supporting a large and often vulnerable population. While most people are able to access quality care, there have been cases where that care has fallen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New record number of homes consented
    In the year ended June 2021, the actual number of new dwellings consented was 44,299, up 18 percent from the June 2020 year. In June 2021, the seasonally adjusted number of new dwellings consented rose 3.8 percent. In June 2021, 4,310 new dwellings were consented, an increase of 3.8 per ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Communities backed to tackle wilding pines
    Twelve community projects across New Zealand will receive a share of $2 million to carry out wilding pine control, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor announced as part of Biosecurity Week. “Wilding pines are a serious problem that threaten many of the unique landscapes that New Zealanders value. Community groups and trusts ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Health Minister Andrew Little responding to the New Zealand Nurses Organisation's rejection of ...
    I was advised last night that the result of the ballot of Tōpūtanga Tapuhi Kaitiaki o Aotearoa New Zealand Nurses Organisation members have rejected the latest proposal to settle their collective agreement. Let me be clear: the proposal was one they put to the Government. The Nurses Organisation rejected their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation introduced to Parliament
    Legislation has been introduced to Parliament to protect against practices intended to change or suppress someone’s sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. Introducing the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill, Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi, said the measures proposed were aimed at ending conversion practices which don’t work, are widely ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New school site for booming West Auckland
    The Government will build on a new school site in West Auckland to cope with rapid population growth in the area, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Ministry is working with existing local schools to determine how the 1.5-hectare site at 279 Hobsonville Point Road will be used to support ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Trans-Tasman travel window to close at midnight tomorrow
    A further 500 MIQ rooms released for managed returnees from NSW Further Government actions announced today are balanced to provide more certainty for Kiwis wanting to return from Australia, while continuing to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Ayesha Verrall says. The actions were foreshadowed last ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt investing millions in Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti schools
    Napier Boys’ and Girls’ High Schools are among those set to benefit from a $16.5 million investment in the Hawke's Bay and Tairāwhiti region, Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash announced today. The Government has set aside money in Budget 2021 to accelerate five projects in Napier, Hastings, Havelock North ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Game changing Jobs for Nature investment for Northland
    Conservation Minister Kiri Allan has announced Jobs for Nature funding for a portfolio of projects that will create ‘game changing’ gains for nature and communities across Northland/Te Tai Tokerau as part of the Government’s acceleration of the economic recovery from COVID. “This portfolio of 12 projects will see over $20 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Third COVID-19 vaccine receives provisional approval
    New Zealand’s regulatory authority Medsafe has granted provisional approval of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine for individuals 18 years of age and older, Acting Minister for COVID-19 Response Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. New Zealand secured 7.6 million doses (enough for 3.8 million people) of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine through an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Bowel-cancer screening programme is saving lives
    More than 1000 New Zealanders have had bowel cancer – New Zealand’s second-most-common cause of death from cancer - detected under the Government’s National Bowel Screening Programme, Health Minister Andrew Little said today. More than 1200 New Zealanders died from bowel cancer in 2017. The screening programme aims to save ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt welcomes draft report on the retail grocery sector
    The Commerce Commission’s draft report into the retail grocery sector is being welcomed by Government as a major milestone. “I asked the Commerce Commission to look at whether this sector is as competitive as it could be and today it has released its draft report for consultation,” Commerce and Consumer ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Christchurch’s Youth Hub ‘set to go’ thanks to further Government funding
    Construction of New Zealand’s first, purpose-built centre for youth well-being is ready to get underway thanks to an extra $2.5 million of COVID-19 response funding, Housing Minister and Associate Minister of Finance, Megan Woods announced today.  “The Christchurch Youth Hub is about bringing together all the things young people need ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Next step to protect Milford Sound Piopiotahi
    Expert group lays out plan to better protect iconic UNESCO World Heritage site Milford Sound Piopiotahi and its surrounds Funding confirmed for dedicated unit and Establishment Board to assess the recommendations and provide oversight of the process from here Milford Opportunities Project a test case for transformational change in tourism ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Funding for projects to reduce waste from construction and demolition
    The Government has announced funding for projects in Auckland and the lower North Island to help reduce construction and demolition waste. “Construction is the main source of waste sent to landfill, and much of this could be reduced, reused and recovered,” Environment Minister David Parker said. “The Government is funding ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech at the launch of the National Hepatitis C Action Plan
    Tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you Anglesea Pharmacy and Te Manawa Taki for hosting this event. As a doctor, I saw first hand the impact of hepatitis C. I met Moana in 2019; she came to the infectious diseases outpatient clinic at Wellington Hospital having tested positive for hepatitis C. Like ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Plan to eliminate hepatitis C as a major health threat by 2030
    A plan to eliminate hepatitis C in New Zealand, reducing liver cancer and the need for liver transplants, has been released today by Associate Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall. “Around 45,000 New Zealanders have hepatitis C, but only around half know they have it,” said Ayesha Verrall. “Symptoms often ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School upgrades and new classrooms for West Coast, Tasman and Canterbury
    A funding injection from Budget 2021 to complete four shovel ready projects and new classrooms at six schools and kura will provide a real boost to local communities, Minister Dr Megan Woods announced today. “This Government has committed to providing quality fit for purpose learning environments and 100,000 new student ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Warmer Kiwi Homes smashes annual target
    The Government's highly successful insulation and heating programme, Warmer Kiwi Homes, is celebrating a key milestone with the completion of more than 38,000 insulation and efficient heater installs in the year to the end of June, smashing its target of 25,000 installs for the year. “The Warmer Kiwi Homes scheme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Exemption granted for Wallabies to enter NZ
    Bledisloe Cup rugby will be played in New Zealand after the Australian rugby team received an economic exemption to enter New Zealand. Travel between Australia and New Zealand was suspended on Friday for at least eight weeks following the worsening of the COVID outbreak across the Tasman. New Zealanders have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Minister of Foreign Affairs makes three diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta today announced three New Zealand Head of Mission appointments. They are: Mike Walsh as Ambassador to Iran Michael Upton as Ambassador to Ethiopia and the African Union Kevin Burnett as Ambassador to Indonesia Iran “Aotearoa New Zealand has a long-standing and constructive relationship with Iran, despite a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Enhanced Task Force Green Approved for West Coast and Marlborough
    The Government has activated Enhanced Task Force Green (ETFG) in response to the West Coast and Marlborough floods, Social Development and Employment Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “To assist with the clean-up, up to $500,000 will be made available to support the recovery in Buller and Marlborough which has experienced ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt support for upgrade of Eden Park players facilities
    Minister for Sport and Recreation Hon Grant Robertson has announced funding to upgrade the players facilities at Eden Park ahead of upcoming Women’s World Cup events. Eden Park is a confirmed venue for the Rugby World Cup 2021, the ICC Women’s Cricket World Cup 2022, and a proposed venue for matches of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More jobs and quicker public transport motoring towards West Auckland
    Work to improve public transport for West Aucklanders and support the region’s economic recovery by creating hundreds of jobs has officially kicked off, Transport Minister Michael Wood announced today. Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff this morning marked the start of construction on the Northwestern Bus Improvements project. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government backs critical health research
    Research into some of New Zealanders’ biggest health concerns including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease is getting crucial support in the latest round of health research funding, Health Minister Andrew Little announced today. The funding, awarded through the Health Research Council of New Zealand, covers 31 General Project grants ($36.64 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Bay of Islands hospital facilities to bring services closer to home
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Andrew Little have joined a ceremony to bless the site and workers for Phase Two of the redevelopment of the Bay of Islands Hospital in Kawakawa today. The new building will house outpatients and primary care facilities, as well as expanded renal care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Raukokore re-imagined with ‘smart’ relocatable rent to own housing
    Iwi, Crown Partnership Relocatable, fully insulated housing, connected to a new solar plant Provides a pathway to home ownership New housing in the remote eastern Bay of Plenty community of Raukokore shows how iwi and Crown agencies can work together effectively to provide warm, dry, energy efficient homes in a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Cabinet accepts Turkish authorities’ request for the managed return of three NZ citizens
    Cabinet has agreed to the managed return of a New Zealand citizen and her two young children from Turkey, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The three have been in immigration detention in Turkey since crossing the border from Syria earlier this year. Turkey has requested that New Zealand repatriate ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Govt delivers more classrooms so children can focus on learning
    Extra Government investment in classrooms and school building projects will enable students and teachers to focus on education rather than overcrowding as school rolls grow across the country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis say. The pair visited Ruakākā School in Whangārei today to announce $100 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New station a platform for AirportLink to take off
    Every Aucklander with access to the rail network will now have a quick and convenient trip to the airport, Transport Minister Michael Wood and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff said during the official opening of the new Puhinui Interchange today. The new interchange links the rail platform with a new bus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • 10 days sick leave for employees delivered
    Legislation doubling employees’ minimum sick leave entitlement to 10 days comes into effect today, bringing benefits to both businesses and employees, Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood announced today. “Our Government is delivering on a key manifesto commitment to help Kiwis and workplaces stay healthy,” Michael Wood said. “COVID-19 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Prime Minister congratulates Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on Election Win
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern tonight congratulated Prime Minister-elect Fiame Naomi Mata’afa on her victory in the Samoa’s general election. “New Zealand has a special relationship with Samoa, anchored in the Treaty of Friendship. We look forward to working with Samoa’s new government in the spirit of partnership that characterises this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Quarantine Free Travel with Australia suspended
    Quarantine Free Travel from all Australian states and territories to New Zealand is being suspended as the Covid situation there worsens, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. From 11.59pm today Australians will no longer be able to enter New Zealand quarantine-free. This will be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Growing conservation efforts in Gisborne
    A big injection of Jobs for Nature funding will create much-needed jobs and financial security for families in TeTairāwhiti, and has exciting prospects for conservation in the region, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The projects target local communities most affected by the economic consequences of COVID 19 and are designed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Flood recovery given further assistance
    The Government is contributing a further $1 million to help the flood battered Buller community, Acting Emergency Management Minister Kris Faafoi announced today. “Buller is a small community which has found itself suddenly facing significant and ongoing welfare costs. While many emergency welfare costs are reimbursed by Government, this money ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Funding for five projects to reduce food waste
    The Government is funding five projects to help address the growing problem of food waste, Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “New Zealand households throw away nearly 300,000 tonnes of food every year, half of which could still be eaten. By supporting these initiatives, we’re taking steps to reduce this ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Temporary Accommodation Service activated for West Coast flooding event
    The Temporary Accommodation Service (TAS) has been activated today - meaning residents on the West Coast of the South Island and in the Marlborough region hit by flooding over the weekend can now access help finding temporary accommodation, announced Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing) Poto Williams in Westport today. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago