GCSB protests at 2pm today

132 comments on “GCSB protests at 2pm today ”

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1. burt 1

   27 July 2013 at 10:20 am

   The cartoon is awesome….
   • Sosoo 1.1

     27 July 2013 at 10:40 am

     Yes. Great cartoon. The look on Donkey’s face is priceless.
2. lprent 2

   27 July 2013 at 10:40 am

   The cartoon is awesome…

   I thought so as well. Generous of Mark to offer it so freely.

   A nice visual exposition about the concerns that many have about what the GCSB have been getting up to and the powers that Key is after for his office.

   Update: drat – nexus7 at a cafe obviously didn’t like to reply…
3. Sable 3

   27 July 2013 at 10:50 am

   After all the bad news of late needed a good laugh and this certainly delivers.
   • Arfamo 3.1

     27 July 2013 at 10:51 am

     +1. It’s brilliant! 🙂
4. Olwyn 4

   27 July 2013 at 10:51 am

   If one of the Auckland organisers pops in here, can you tell me whether we are meant to rally at Aotea Square, or march there from Britomart?
5. Jenny 5

   27 July 2013 at 11:27 am

   I notice Lynn that your list of links leads with a totally worthless and misleading Headline.

   “Labour: We’ll dump GCSB bill”

   Good news, or so I thought. Until I clicked on the link and read the article. And to my dismay, found that this promise was delivered to reporters by an anonymous “Labour spokesman”.

   By supplying his gender this implies that the reporters knew who the spokesperson was. That they didn’t identify him, implies that he asked for anonymity.

   The tactical reason for political parties, resorting to the immoral use of anonymous spokespeople to deliver their statements, is so that no one can be held accountable when they break them.

   By themselves anonymous statements of political intent are completely worthless.

   Until someone from the Labour Party can get up and openly state that Labour will repeal this law, then such a headline as well as being worthless, is misleading. ie. in other words a lie.
   • Pascal's bookie 5.1

     27 July 2013 at 11:39 am

     Jenny, wrong again.

     A spokesperson speaks for the party. They are a voice of the party.

     Who is speaking when a party spokesperson speaks? The party. That’s because a party cannot speak, so they have ‘spokespeople’ to voice their position. Who is accountable for what a ‘party spokesperson’ says? The party.

     This is different form ‘A senior party figure’, or ‘a person close to the leadership’, or ‘ a source within the Party’ who only speak for themselves..
     • Jenny 5.1.1

       27 July 2013 at 12:06 pm

       “Does Big Brother exist?”
       “Of course he exists. The Party exists. Big Brother is the embodiment of the Party.”
       “Does he exist in the same way as I exist?”
       “You do not exist.”

       O’Brian to Winston Smith 1984 by George Orwell.

       A spokesperson speaks for the party. They are a voice of the party.

       Who is speaking when a party spokesperson speaks? The party. That’s because a party cannot speak, so they have ‘spokespeople’ to voice their position. Who is accountable for what a ‘party spokesperson’ says? The party.

       Pascal’s bookie to Jenny

       I would not compare the regime depicted by George Orwell with the Labour Party in anyway. But the principal Orwell is highlighting here, is that the anonymity as practiced by “the party” hides accountability.

       The Labour Party leaders need to come out and say that they will scrap this bill completely on gaining government. And that they will hold accountable those guilty of committing illegal acts under the current laws.

       As well as this they will release the names of the 88 illegally spied on so that they can take their own legal actions.
       • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.1

         27 July 2013 at 12:34 pm

         ‘Big Brother’ /= Spokesperson.

         You’re an idiot Jenny. And that’s the charitable view. The other view is that you hang around here promoting dissension and aggravating for more and more radical action for the same reasons people do that in all protest movements. (cop).
         • weka 5.1.1.1.1

           27 July 2013 at 12:38 pm

           Interesting. I’ve put her actions here down to ego and the driving need to be the lone hero amongst people who should be peers if they could just understand the world as she does. But yeah, cop.
           • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.1.1.1

             27 July 2013 at 12:42 pm

             I think she’s an idiot, not a cop. But it is hard to tell the difference based on behaviour.
         • Murray Olsen 5.1.1.1.2

           27 July 2013 at 9:02 pm

           Unless you have some evidence you wish to share which indicates Jenny might be a cop, you have just made one of the most stupid and cowardly statements that it’s possible for an activist to make. Do you have any such evidence?

           Travellerev has also suggested on this blog that I am paid by the government, and the same goes for her. However, I’m less interested in defending my own reputation than in defending the left and activists in general from the filthy paranoia that led to Stalin’s purges.
           • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.1.2.1

             27 July 2013 at 9:35 pm

             First of all reread what I said.

             Secondly, the ‘evidence’ for that other interpretation is in what she has said.

             There is a lot more evidence for that than for most of the nonsense she writes.
             • Murray Olsen …

               27 July 2013 at 9:41 pm

               I reread what you said very carefully, about ten times. Then I commented after I calmed down. I think you should apologise to her, but I doubt if you’ll see things the same way.
               • Pascal's bookie …

                 27 July 2013 at 10:10 pm

                 “You’re an idiot Jenny. And that’s the charitable view. The other view is…”

                 I explicitly didn’t call her a cop. I don’t think she’s a cop. I think she’s an idiot. (that’s the third time I’ve said that, btw) And I’m not going to apologise for saying it given the way she has behaved, on a number of issues, over several months. It’s what I think. If that offends you then explain why it’s ‘stupid and cowardly’ given her consistent behaviour.

                 Jenny promotes dissension and demands ever increasing radicalisation of positions from political parties. That’s just ridiculous. I offered what I think that means, and offered an alternative explanation.
           • lprent 5.1.1.1.2.2

             27 July 2013 at 10:29 pm

             ..you have just made one of the most stupid and cowardly statements that it’s possible for an activist to make.

             Wrong approach. Treat any activist going over the top with due caution and suspicion.

             I speak with some experience after having Rob Gilchrist, police informant and agent provocateur, in my family as my activist niece was living with him (and ultimately uncovered his activities). He’d been involved in activist groups for a very long time and wasn’t just involved with reporting on them but actually involved in trying to get people to do illegalities so they were chargeable.

             Reading his emails and messages after rocky detected him and I gave a hand extracting a picture of what was going on was a revelation about how much difference there was between what the security forces heard and what actually happened in reality.

             These days I always treat anyone pushing the bounds with suspicion unless they are able to explain their logic and why a particular end point and strategy to get there is the best approach. That is my sniff test. I tend to push a bit to figure out if they have that present enough for me to respect it.

             Jenny frequently doesn’t pass it. PB appears to have given up trying to find it…
             • weka …

               27 July 2013 at 10:55 pm

               I have no idea what Jenny’s strategy and proposed end point is. Her actions on ts have never fitted any consistent pattern of logic that I could see. The latest round is a shame because in the recent past her comments seem to have dropped all the accusations and undermining of her target du jour.

               I took Pb’s (cop) comment as meaning look more closely at her potential political motivations (rather than Jenny being a cop). The thing that strikes me about her comments on Shearer at the meeting is that someone else could have raised the point and enabled discussion in a way that went somewhere useful. I know it’s hard to tell tone in text, but there is something about Jenny’s attack that seemed almost gleeful.
             • Murray Olsen …

               28 July 2013 at 5:02 pm

               While some of Jenny’s views seem a bit unique, I don’t recall her ever acting as anything like an agent provocateur.

               I was accused of being an SIS agent once, by a member of the Socialist Unity Party. Apparently I had picked up typing a little quickly and a remark about Bill Andersen’s lack of democratic instincts was enough to damn me. It’s not a nice thing to happen, and I was unable to make sense of it at the time. On the other hand, I have detected a couple of undercover cops over the years. I warned people who were involved with them, but few believed me. I didn’t make accusations over the internet.

               Did you suspect Gilchrist before he was uncovered? Did you say anything? That’s my sniff test for people who claim to have a sniff test.
         • Jenny 5.1.1.1.3

           28 July 2013 at 1:25 am

           …you hang around here promoting dissension and aggravating for more and more radical action for the same reasons people do that in all protest movements. (cop).

           Pascal’s bookie

           I don’t think it is a radical action to call for the Labour Party to announce that on becoming the government they will release the names of the 88.

           I think that would be just and fair. We could all judge for ourselves then, if there are any legitimate grounds at all to spy on these people.

           This would inform us better than anything else would, the need, or not for the expanded powers that they are seeking to spy on everyone.

           So PB my question for you is this:

           Do you think calling for the Labour Party to release these names when they are in government is radical?

           Remember that these 88 people were spied on illegally. Which would make you think that they must be pretty dangerous people for the GCSB and SIS to take this “radical” step.

           Let’s find out.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.3.1

             28 July 2013 at 1:59 am

             What about the privacy rights of the 88?

             You haven’t responded to what Pb actually said.
             • Murray Olsen …

               28 July 2013 at 8:05 pm

               Their names should be released to them. Anything further would be their decision.
               • Veutoviper …

                 28 July 2013 at 8:11 pm

                 Exactly, MO.

                 I agree that their names should be ‘released’ – but only to them. It is then up to each individual – and only that individual – to decide whether their privacy is preserved, or whether this becomes public.
           • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1.1.3.2

             28 July 2013 at 1:10 pm

             Jenny, you are being dishonest.

             Is releasing those names the only thing you have demanded?

             No it, isn’t.

             And if you want to really find out what has been going on and why people were spied on, with what reasoning and to what end, we need to have a review of the whole nat security operation. Which is what Labour is calling for and you are attacking them for.
   • Sable 5.2

     27 July 2013 at 11:41 am

     Yep can you spot the difference between Labour and National aside from different coloured flags? I can not and nor it seems can the electorate at large. People are not stupid, they want a Labour party that behaves like a Labour party should (that is pre Lange/Douglas) and until they get it Keys rules the roost.
   • Veutoviper 5.3

     27 July 2013 at 11:53 am

     To help you keep up, Jenny, hhere is yesterday’s Herald article, Jenny – note the references in the headline and in the article to Shearer.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10903651
   • lprent 5.4

     27 July 2013 at 11:57 am

     … this promise was delivered to reporters by an anonymous “Labour spokesman”.

     They were speaking on behalf of the party – not for themselves. As far as I am aware there is no person in the Labour caucus explicitly responsible for the security portfolios to be named as speaking for the party on this topic.

     I do the same on the odd occasion that I have made a statement on behalf of The Standard rather than my more normal course of action making my personal position clear.

     BTW: I believe that the leaders of the opposition are by convention briefed in general terms by various security groups so that they are aware of what is happening in the event that they have to form a government, just as various members get briefings from treasury etc in their areas. However these are advisory only.
     • Murray Olsen 5.4.1

       27 July 2013 at 9:09 pm

       At a time when the expansion of spying powers and the illegal actions being rewarded by Key are the issue of the day, why hasn’t Labour thought to appoint a spokesperson? How hopeless can they get?
6. Penny Bright 6

   27 July 2013 at 11:29 am

   FYI

   Will the NBR publish THIS comment?

   http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/black-means-white-tax-wonderland-dc-143397

   (Rodney Hide’s article).

   MY COMMENT:

   You coming on any of the marches against the GCSB Bill today Rodney?

   ( //www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=258769314248278&set=a.253532231438653.1073741827.253531264772083&type=1&theater )

   Defending the lawful rights of the citizens to privacy, freedom of association and freedom of expression and against arbitrary search and surveillance?

   Never mind ‘Nanny State’!

   This is ‘BIG BROTHER STATE’ (on steroids)!

   Hope to see you there.

   Kind regards!

   ‘Her Warship’ 😉

   Penny Bright
7. Boadicea 7

   27 July 2013 at 12:00 pm

   http://www.3news.co.nz/Cunliffe-takes-mic-at-anti-GCSB-meeting/tabid/370/articleID/306521/Default.aspx

   I hear Shearer and Cunliffe will both speak at the rally in Auckland today. Shearer knows that is the way to demonstrate his mana. Both of them side by side is the way to move the spotlight back onto the real issue: our freedom.
   • Ad 7.1

     27 July 2013 at 12:22 pm

     Security issues shouldn’t be delegated to any MP other than the Leader of the Opposition.

     This is a great opportunity for Shearer to amend his astonishing missed opportunity on Thursday night.

     Shearer has of course ensured David Cunliffe does not speak or in fact ever get near a microphone again on this issue. As ever, Cunliffe has acceded on it. The Party is resigned to Shearer, through the Labour caucus equivalent of the Cold War’s Mutually Assured Destruction.

     So all eyes on David Shearer’s speech today and his alone: will this, finally, be the issue with which he takes it to Key?
     • Colonial Viper 7.1.1

       27 July 2013 at 7:22 pm

       Shearer has of course ensured David Cunliffe does not speak or in fact ever get near a microphone again on this issue.

       lol. I suppose Labour has so much spare talent currently they can just go on keeping their best players on the bench.
       • Alanz 7.1.1.1

         27 July 2013 at 7:46 pm

         I was out and about today. These kinds of public gatherings are a brilliant way of connecting with folks and engaging on issues that really bother people. Natz MPs should give it a try at least once. It was a change for me from hanging out at the Koru lounge.

         Anyway, as for the Labour Party, the talk I had with a couple of people reflected an unease about the current Labour leadership which seems more concerned with chopping down colleagues who are more capable, than to be focused on ensuring there is a strong team-in-waiting with the necessary abilities to govern for the interests of the many.
   • UglyTruth 7.2

     27 July 2013 at 4:32 pm

     Sorry, but I don’t see how espionage directly affects anyone’s freedom. What it does affect is people’s security.
     • Arfamo 7.2.1

       27 July 2013 at 4:37 pm

       It had an effect on Kim Dotcom’s freedom, as I recall, until a judge put that right. It affects freedom of speech, and freedom of association, and freedom from having your privacy invaded without good reason, for starters. How many people have SIS spied on because of their political beliefs or stance in opposition to government policies, without their representing any threat to security? You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it, perhaps?
       • UglyTruth 7.2.1.1

         27 July 2013 at 5:00 pm

         Several factors were at work in Dotcom’s case, not solely surveillance. Dotcom was targeted because of his role in the IP realm, for him surveillance wasn’t the root cause of the crimes committed against him by the state.

         Espionage doesn’t directly affect freedoms because it doesn’t stop people from exercising free will, although indirectly it can affect the choices people make if they believe that they don’t have privacy. The fact that your emails have been copied means nothing until they fall into the hands of someone who wants to use them against you. This can be a threat, which relates to security rather than to freedom.

         If there was no threat then there would be no reason for people to change their behaviour when privacy was an issue. Any loss of freedom is simply due to people’s strategies to mitigate possible threats arising from their loss of privacy.
         • Arfamo 7.2.1.1.1

           27 July 2013 at 5:02 pm

           I repeat – How many people have SIS spied on because of their political beliefs or stance in opposition to government policies, without their representing any threat to security? That’s a concern for me, UT. We should not allow legislation to be passed that can be easily misused for political purposes by any government feeling threatened electorally, or wanting to toady up to another government for political or economic purposes. My private information and communications should be private. So should yours.
           • UglyTruth 7.2.1.1.1.1

             27 July 2013 at 5:40 pm

             Arfamo, your question about political espionage can be reframed as being a breach of state security due to a compromised official. It is a real concern for any citizen.

             Is it even possible to have an espionage agency which can be held to account by a democracy? If you look at the current situation then the answer IMO is a resounding NO, and the current calls for better/modified legislation are simply an expression of faith in the legislative process rather than a realistic appraisal of the actual role of espionage in politics.
         • weka 7.2.1.1.2

           27 July 2013 at 5:17 pm

           “Any loss of freedom is simply due to people’s strategies to mitigate possible threats arising from their loss of privacy.”

           Lol, you’d make a great apologist for the proto-fascists UT.
           • UglyTruth 7.2.1.1.2.1

             27 July 2013 at 5:44 pm

             LOL. Strangely enough I see the currently proposed political solutions as being more likely to promote fascism than the alternative.
             • Colonial Viper …

               27 July 2013 at 7:25 pm

               Thank goodness it’s not up to you, then.
             • weka …

               28 July 2013 at 12:04 am

               UT, you just blamed people for loss of their own freedom due to them protecting themselves from danger. That’s either evil or just fucking daft.
               • UglyTruth …

                 28 July 2013 at 8:24 pm

                 Weka, if you chose not to dive of a wharf because you saw a shark, how what that be any different in principle to what you quoted?
     • Jenny 7.2.2

       27 July 2013 at 8:44 pm

       Sorry, but I don’t see how espionage directly affects anyone’s freedom

       UglyTruth

       The keeping and the holding of privileged information, not normally discoverable is the stuff of blacklists. How many Kiwis have never got that promotion, or government job, because of secret blacklists?

       How many Kiwi families have suffered needlessly as a result?

       88 New Zealanders have been illegally spied on. Not one of these Kiwis illegally spied on can even get the information that this secretive crime has been committed against them and their families.

       If this information was released to them then we could all determine what criminal harm has been done to them, what misfortunes and setbacks were due to secretive information is held on them, who it was passed to and if and how it has been used against them.

       Laws have been broken. Normally this would be a matter for the courts to decide on.

       These people should be able to take their cases to the courts for a judge to decide if any actual material harm has been done them and award damages and costs based on that harm.

       Yet the criminals are not even allowed to be identified, and remain protected and immune from the law.
       • Jenny 7.2.2.1

         28 July 2013 at 1:01 am

         My greatest frustration is that even under an incoming Labour led government these criminals will still get away scot free. That a Labour led government will continue as National has done, to give cover for the illegal spying on 88 New Zealanders like Jane Kelsey. And will, in continuing to cover for this illegal behaviour, refuse to release the names of those that were, (and probably still are), being illegally spied on.

         I challenge anyone here to say that they could vote for David Shearer and not feel a twinge of unease.
         • weka 7.2.2.1.1

           28 July 2013 at 2:01 am

           The only people that have a choice in voting for Shearer are people in his electorate (national election), or maybe Labour party people (candidate selection, not sure how Labour does that).
8. chris73 8

   27 July 2013 at 12:00 pm

   Looks more like Peter Gabriel

   Lets see how many people turn up to this, I’m guessing a couple of hundred at most
   • Paul 8.1

     27 July 2013 at 12:01 pm

     Anything useful to say, Chris?
   • Colonial Viper 8.2

     27 July 2013 at 12:10 pm

     Are you early celebrating the apathy of the populace, C73?
   • lprent 8.3

     27 July 2013 at 12:18 pm

     Gee, and we had confident predictions of the following numbers turning up at the meeting on thursday…
     The monkey: nine
     Santi: one hundred (on one of the few occassions recently that he hasn’t been astroturfing)

     As OAK said

     The Stasi called. They want their jokes back.

     Don’t know why really. I find this boring old meme rather pathetic. But I guess that is what you’d expect if all you have ever seen are protests by the smugly self-interested like yourself. The electoral finance bill with its “Threat to democracy” aka “Threat to political advertising revenues” being a good example.
   • fender 8.4

     27 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

     Nah, looks like Key, not Gabriel.

     Relinquish your firearms licence you fuckhead Keyhole licker.
   • Colonial Viper 8.5

     27 July 2013 at 9:54 pm

     Lets see how many people turn up to this, I’m guessing a couple of hundred at most

     Ah well Chris73, better luck next time.
   • Murray Olsen 8.6

     27 July 2013 at 10:05 pm

     Lucky you’re so used to being wrong then. Next idiotic prediction, please?
9. red rattler 9

   27 July 2013 at 12:19 pm

   I am not interested in reviews if this Bill is passed. There could be no independent review of the spy laws in NZ while subject to the full spectrum press of PRISM.

   Without Dunne this Bill would not become Law, it would be defeated. (Let’s assume that Key won’t make the changes Peters wants etc etc)

   The existing law would remain in place.

   But having been exposed as observed in the breach the existing law could be enforced by any left centre incoming government.

   Then a review of the whole spy operation would take place.

   How is this different from Labour, Greens etc committing themselves to repealing the Act on taking office?

   All those amendments that empower the GCSB to spy on NZ citizens would be repealed and the original Act reinstated.

   Then a review of the whole spy operation would ensue. That review could become the basis of a binding referendum that would buttress the Human Rights Act.

   The point is that unless repealed this Act will allow NSA to spy on all NZers while a review is taking place.

   I do not trust a centre-left Govt to hold any sort of independent review of spying in NZ when exposed to the full spectrum of US economic, political and ideological blackmail.

   If NZ is to be rid of the pernicious surveillance regime imposed on the world by US imperialism, we have to reject its flagrant abuse of our basic rights on principle, and NOW!
   • weka 9.1

     27 July 2013 at 12:24 pm

     I don’t trust Labour on this either. Why not repeal the changes, and then do the review? It seems backwards to do it the other way – overwhelmingly the opinion is that the changes are bad, so remove them and review the way the laws is now, and the problems the existing law has created. It seems complicated and messy to review something that is being roundly criticised in teh first place.

     Labour have committed to making it an urgent priority if they get to form govt (4 mth timeframe?), so I think they are genuine in their commitment, but I’d like to see a good argument for why not repealing and then reviewing is better than repealing and reviewing. Is it something to do with how the GCSB would have been functioning for the previous year and the amount of time they would need to make changes, or something?
     • RedBaronCV 9.1.1

       27 July 2013 at 1:25 pm

       Stuff being on the moral high ground.

       L-G should announce that they will spend three months spying on the Nacts, Business roundtable etc, etc. and then they will repeal the Act.
   • UglyTruth 9.2

     27 July 2013 at 5:16 pm

     If NZ is to be rid of the pernicious surveillance regime imposed on the world by US imperialism, we have to reject its flagrant abuse of our basic rights on principle, and NOW!

     It’s not just the US that is behind the surveillance regime, the UK has long been a major partner.

     What rights are being abused? The right to privacy is a human right, and as such is nothing more than a fiction of law.

     When an organization is collecting data about you in ways that you don’t like, isn’t the logical response to stop giving them sensitive information like where you live and who you do business with?
     • Pasupial 9.2.1

       27 July 2013 at 6:41 pm

       @ Ugly

       “When an organization is collecting data about you in ways that you don’t like, isn’t the logical response to stop giving them sensitive information like where you live and who you do business with?”

       So you’re going to stop the asinine comments once the Spy Laws come in (as going online in NZ will be giving an organization; the GCSB and thus PRISM, metadata at the very least)? Maybe there are merits that I haven’t previously seen in the bill… Though, on the whole, I do still vehemently oppose it.

       Still, it would be nice not to have to try decipher drivel like:

       “What rights are being abused? The right to privacy is a human right, and as such is nothing more than a fiction of law.”
       • UglyTruth 9.2.1.1

         27 July 2013 at 7:01 pm

         Ignorance of the law is no excuse, Pasupial.
         • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.1.1

           27 July 2013 at 7:21 pm

           /facepalm
           • Ugly Truth 9.2.1.1.1.1

             27 July 2013 at 10:13 pm

             Why attempt to make a point when you can pretend that what I posted supports your position, eh Draco?
     • Colonial Viper 9.2.2

       27 July 2013 at 7:28 pm

       When an organization is collecting data about you in ways that you don’t like, isn’t the logical response to stop giving them sensitive information like where you live and who you do business with?

       What, choose to live in a faraday cage?
       • Ugly Truth 9.2.2.1

         27 July 2013 at 10:10 pm

         Last time I checked a faraday cage wouldn’t stop them from opening the mail that people sent them.
   • Murray Olsen 9.3

     27 July 2013 at 9:21 pm

     I can’t see any good reason to not repeal any Act immediately. All I’ve seen are excuses, and none of them hold water. The GCSB has been so hopeless and has shown such disregard for the law that it should be dismantled, with any subsequent review considering whether it actually needs replacing. Given that the countries who seem to spy on us the most are friends of the GCSB and it will never catch CIA, ASIO, MI6, Surete, or Mossad agents irrespective of what they do here, my strong opinion is that we do not need it, cannot trust it, and should live without it.
     • Te Reo Putake 9.3.1

       27 July 2013 at 9:48 pm

       Well, if immediate repeal means the GCSB and the SIS go back to the way they were at the start of this process, then, yeah, I’m keen on a review, too.
10. Penny Bright 10

    27 July 2013 at 12:28 pm

    FYI

    Today 27 July 2013 at the anti-GCSB marches all over NZ – SEIZE THE MOMENT!

    Politicians understand ONE thing – VOTES!

    Here is a petition you can use / adapt / whatever to get as many signatures for as many MPs who supported the GCSB and TICs Bills at their First Reading.

    If YOU (MP) vote to support the GCSB Bill – we won’t vote for you and will CAMPAIGN against your re-election in 2014!

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=218

    Cheers!

    Penny Bright
11. weka 11

    27 July 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Harrison and Beagle interviewed on TV3 this morning

    http://www.3news.co.nz/GCSB-bill-protests-kick-off/tabid/1356/articleID/306538/Default.aspx
    • lprent 11.1

      27 July 2013 at 1:32 pm

      Thanks. Nice.

      Returning the favour of TV3 grabbing content out of its context on this site, I spent a few amusing minutes linking their content through into this post without their context advertising :twisted:. Was going to skip the ad at the start as well. But it is time to head to the Aotea square…
      • weka 11.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 1:35 pm

        ha ha, nice one.

        For those of us outside the main centre, live stream of the Wellington protest

        http://www.ustream.tv/channel/wellington-gcsb-protest?utm_campaign=ustre-am&utm_source=15366793&utm_medium=social
        • bad12 11.1.1.1

          27 July 2013 at 3:49 pm

          Damn, i should have realized that the Wellington protest would end up at Parliament, i didn’t try Cuba Mall coz i am not mobile over more than 150 meters and weighed up last night whether or not i was likely to get a car-park close enough to the Mall,

          Good stuff tho from all giving the running commentary, hope the protests keep going and i will get out to the Parliament end at the very least….
          • weka 11.1.1.1.1

            27 July 2013 at 4:05 pm

            Yeah I would love to have been somewhere in the real world marching….

            Have fun when you get there bad.
12. weka 12

    27 July 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Occupying Queen St

    https://twitter.com/publicaddress/status/360943250212806656/photo/1
    • lprent 12.1

      27 July 2013 at 2:18 pm

      Not enough room otherwise…
    • weka 12.2

      27 July 2013 at 2:27 pm

      Other pics

      Nelson https://twitter.com/Adam__Roberts/status/360946201811636224/photo/1

      Welly https://twitter.com/brenda09/status/360947933471985664/photo/1

      https://twitter.com/helenkellyCTU/status/360945100542578689/photo/1

      Not sure where this is but funny http://instagram.com/p/cQJVXfrrVt/#

      Aotea Square https://twitter.com/FrancesCook/status/360946737017405440/photo/1
      • felix 12.2.1

        27 July 2013 at 6:41 pm

        4th one is Hamiltron.

        Reliable estimates are around 500 people which is frankly fucking amazing in the Waikato where it’s usually considered a success if 50 turn up.

        Key has overplayed his hand and fucked it up. Heartland NZ is not happy.
13. weka 13

    27 July 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Russel Norman ‏@RusselNorman 6m

    ‘No justice, no peace, no secret police’ chant at WLGN #GCSB protest

    Russell Brown ‏@publicaddress 28m

    The age range here is remarkable. Many older NZers. #GCSB #GCSBBill

    Russell Brown ‏@publicaddress 10m

    “Is there not one of you prepared to take account of your principles and vote against?” Rodney Harrison QC to govt MPs. #GCSBBill #GCSB
    • weka 13.1

      27 July 2013 at 2:54 pm

      Good to see some placard pics

      https://twitter.com/endarken/status/360954929961107456/photo/1

      …

      Toby Manhire ‏@toby_etc 2m

      I think Shearer just suggested a novel protest action: CC John Key on all your emails. #gcsb

      (Shearer must be reading the blogs 😉 )
      • TheContrarian 13.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 3:28 pm

        That is a…novel approach to spelling.
      • weka 13.1.2

        27 July 2013 at 3:59 pm

        David Russell ‏@davidrussellnz 3m

        @davidfarrier CC is too easy for Key to filter anti-GCSB email – put Key in “To” and actual recipiant in “cc” #GCSB
      • weka 13.1.3

        27 July 2013 at 4:02 pm

        this one is a bit subtle for me. Any ideas?

        https://twitter.com/RohinaBrinsdon/status/360970475553304576/photo/1
        • Arfamo 13.1.3.1

          27 July 2013 at 4:05 pm

          GCSB agent in disguise.
          • weka 13.1.3.1.1

            27 July 2013 at 4:11 pm

            lolz. More like a kind of donkey then?
        • Anne 13.1.3.2

          27 July 2013 at 5:29 pm

          Any ideas?

          The law is an ass.
          • Rosetinted 13.1.3.2.1

            27 July 2013 at 7:37 pm

            💡 Anne
        • UglyTruth 13.1.3.3

          27 July 2013 at 7:03 pm

          I couldn’t find my Vendetta mask.
14. lprent 14

    27 July 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Dotcom says that Edward Snowden is watching the protests from Russia….
15. lprent 15

    27 July 2013 at 2:47 pm

    David Shearer speaking – will replace this law in 2014
    • lprent 15.1

      27 July 2013 at 2:49 pm

      Doing pretty good speaking… Much better than the last time I saw him…
      • weka 15.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 2:55 pm

        Poema ‏@apoem4pembo 3m

        Shearer’s speech was probably the one i could follow the most so far. Succinct and simple. #GCSB
16. lprent 16

    27 July 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Sound quality at the periphary is variable.
    • lprent 16.1

      27 July 2013 at 3:07 pm

      Mike Treen ranting…..
17. weka 17

    27 July 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Young Greens ‏@YoungGreensNZ 32s

    @GarethMP at #gcsb protest ‘Peter Dunne with his vote has sold our assets, he’s sold our laws and now he’s sold our privacy’. Shame.

    …

    David Shearer ‏@DavidShearerMP 1m

    Stop the #GCSB bill. When we’re elected next year we’ll repeal it and hold a full inquiry. pic.twitter.com/xMD7Z2IgXX
    • weka 17.1

      27 July 2013 at 3:02 pm

      Donna Robertson ‏@kebabette 50s

      First sign of #GCSB protest spotted: “all you need to know about me John is I think you’re a douche.” #chch

      lolz, go Chch.
      • weka 17.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 3:14 pm

        Good turnout in Chch

        https://twitter.com/EdNZ/status/360958927128649728/photo/1
    • weka 17.2

      27 July 2013 at 3:15 pm

      Sana ‏@bigshika 3m

      Dude on phone behind me “sorry I’m actually outside parliament right now protesting the #GCSBBill… It’s a Wellington thing”
      • weka 17.2.1

        27 July 2013 at 4:04 pm

        US embassy gets an egging.

        https://twitter.com/robtreacher/status/360973050818215938/photo/1
        • sillystuff 17.2.1.1

          27 July 2013 at 7:20 pm

          Why ?
          • Colonial Viper 17.2.1.1.1

            27 July 2013 at 9:49 pm

            not everything in life has a why; it just is.
18. Arfamo 18

    27 July 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Getting granny’s attention already: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10904220

    Nothing on Stuff.co yet.
    • weka 18.1

      27 July 2013 at 3:10 pm

      not bad coverage.
      • Arfamo 18.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 3:13 pm

        I know. Editor must’ve been taken to hospital or something.
        • weka 18.1.1.1

          27 July 2013 at 4:19 pm

          Interesting photo at top with the two Labour flags.
    • Arfamo 18.2

      27 July 2013 at 3:27 pm

      Stuff.co has awoken from slumber: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8972305/Dotcom-joins-rally-against-GSCB
19. weka 19

    27 July 2013 at 4:08 pm

    KDC’s speech on youtube now

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wjka8j3EE&feature=youtu.be

    GCSB as subsidary of the NSA. Connection with the drone strikes, which I don’t quite follow.

    Wish people would stop saying KDC for PM.
    • weka 19.1

      27 July 2013 at 4:18 pm

      Other youtubes going up now

      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_sort=video_date_uploaded&search_query=gcsb
      • Arfamo 19.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 10:57 pm

        Excellent address by Jane Kelsey.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdSCCtIai6w
    • joe90 19.2

      27 July 2013 at 6:46 pm

      GCSB as subsidary of the NSA. Connection with the drone strikes, which I don’t quite follow.

      Ground stations.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Ground_stations
    • Murray Olsen 19.3

      27 July 2013 at 9:27 pm

      Information intercepted here and in Australia goes towards the decisions as to whom will get a bit of freedom dropped on them from an Obama drone in the near future. We are part of the US full spectral dominance machine and have been for a long time.
20. mickysavage 20

    27 July 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Just finished marching on the Auckland march. There was a really good turnout the Herald thinks a couple of thousand and I would say that was conservative. The crowd was passionate and there was a lot of anger.

    David Shearer spoke well and advocated that we all copy John Key into any complaints that we have about breaches of our privacy. For those who do not know his email is john dot key at parliament dot govt dot nz. Labour MPs David Cunliffe, Darien Fenton, Carol Beaumont and Phil Twyford were also there.

    Gareth Hughes spoke well also and suggested that Kim Dotcom should become Kim Dotcodotnz. This suggestion was met with applause.

    Martyn Bradbury coordinated things well and struck a chord that his three year old daughter did not deserve to be spied upon just because her father was an activist.

    John Minto and Jane Kelsey spoke with their usual passion.

    All in all a good march. It was organised on a shoe string and quickly. It is really important that the momentum that is clearly building is maintained.
    • weka 20.1

      27 July 2013 at 5:20 pm

      “It is really important that the momentum that is clearly building is maintained.”

      Do you have any ideas on how that can happen micky?

      KDC said the other night that he doesn’t believe that anything will stop the bill and so we will have to wait until the next election.

      Beagle said something similar this morning, that if the protests don’t cause a change in NACT MPs then we will have to wait until the next election.

      But isn’t there something else important happening here with people mobilising?
      • mickysavage 20.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 9:29 pm

        Agreed Weka. Now is the time for all good lefties to put their heads together and work out what to do. Because this campaign should not end with a good public meeting and a good national day of protests.
        • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1

          27 July 2013 at 10:13 pm

          Needs to be a campaign pressuring key MPs one by one, and also more massive gatherings with more prominent speakers, with the presence of international media arranged ahead of time.
21. karol 21

    27 July 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Thanks for the reports and links, images, vids, etc. It’s great for those of us who couldn’t be there to see it looks like a very successful afternoon of protests.

    And I’d be up for some further action, too.
    • Anne 21.1

      27 July 2013 at 6:02 pm

      Ditto

      I, too, can’t attend these Sat. protests and rely on fellow standardistas to keep me informed.

      Thanks a lot.
22. Chris 22

    27 July 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Apparently the Electoral Commission was at the Welly protest to enrol voters… is this the norm? Or has a public servant used his nouse to encourage kiwis to take their protest to the poll booth in 2014
    • RedBaronCV 22.1

      27 July 2013 at 7:20 pm

      Yes there was. But outside parliament grounds and apparently impromtu.

      Interesting dynamic around the speakers. Russell Norman got a solid cheer when he stepped up but Chris Hipkins , just a smattering of applause as he introduced himself. If winners are grinnrs Norman is looking at a hefty vote from the Wellington area.
    • Treetop 22.2

      27 July 2013 at 7:23 pm

      The other day I raised Hone having a Hikoi to Wellington starting at each end of the country. I have since thought about what the Hikoi would be for and I came up with:

      1. Enrolling voters.
      2. How to do a special vote.
      3. Pledging to vote at the next election.
23. Rosetinted 23

    27 July 2013 at 6:59 pm

    I was at the Nelson protest. We made a lot of noise with chants as we walked up the main street
    i.e. GCSB Don’t spy on me or Not this Kiwi. A few placards, GCSB Whispers $ Us, and NACT state – Spy State, Key No. 001/2 etc. Clever ones too with political names worked in, finishing with Dunne naturally. The sound system needed a boost, someone came up with a megaphone which did the job.

    A number of speakers, Maryanne Street and keen Labour supporters there. Green candidate Aaryn Barlow spoke too, also Golden Bay activist Victoria Davies. And others. A good attendance for a small place with an older population. I’m guessing about 100. Crowd very supportive about the Bill being wrong, and passing law under emergency – done 10 times more by this NACT government than Labour did.
24. Tautoko Viper 24

    27 July 2013 at 7:49 pm

    I was searching Stop the GCSB and on page 2 at the bottom there was this notice:
    In response to a legal request submitted to Google, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read more about the request at ChillingEffects.org.

    Any one got any ideas about this?
    • David H 24.1

      27 July 2013 at 10:11 pm

      This the place?? https://www.chillingeffects.org/
25. felix 25

    27 July 2013 at 7:53 pm

    I’d say we’re looking at Key’s public legacy.

    This, how he’s being portrayed around the country right now in workplaces, homes, the streets and the nets right across the demographics.

    What we see of Key now, in this moment, is how he’ll be remembered forever.
26. Sable 26

    27 July 2013 at 8:10 pm

    I’d like to think you are right Felix but I wonder. Just look at how despicable Thatcher was and yet the odious old cockroach still got a State funeral with all the trimmings and now a book crowing about her achievements has been written.
    • felix 26.1

      27 July 2013 at 8:19 pm

      Oh there’s bound to be plenty of people who will always love these dictators, and for good reason they tend to be more popular among the powerful and influential.

      “the odious old cockroach” 😀 a lovely turn of phrase.
27. Paul 27

    27 July 2013 at 8:33 pm

    TV3 news
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Protesters-turn-out-to-oppose-GCSB-bill/tabid/309/articleID/306599/Default.aspx
    Lead sentence “protesters have clashed with police.”
    Second sentence ” In Palmerston North rocks and bottles were thrown.”
    Also the following …”demonstrators climbed the gate to parliament although there was another gate.open next to them.”
    Language used “armed with placards”
    And John Key is allowed to make statement without ANY challenging questions.

    Good job, TV3. Your owners Ironbridge Capital would be proud of the unrepresentative smear your news made of the nationwide protests. ‘Jono’lists, hold your heads in shame.
    • Murray Olsen 27.1

      27 July 2013 at 9:34 pm

      Key looks really stressed. He’s even breaking out in pimples. This level of opposition can’t have been among his ashprishuns.
      • Alanz 27.1.1

        27 July 2013 at 10:25 pm

        Who would have thought that the ‘smile and wave’ political capital carefully built up during the first term would be spent and squandered like this in the year before the 2014 general election?
        • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1

          27 July 2013 at 10:29 pm

          National have done a lot of things which make it look like they’re willing to risk throwing away the election next year. From class room sizes to closing Christchurch schools to opening up more conservation land for mining to the dodgy SkyCity convention centre deal.

          Which suggests that they are listening to a constituency other than the general public.
          • Alanz 27.1.1.1.1

            27 July 2013 at 11:59 pm

            And an installed leader like Shearer is heaven-sent for the Nats because if the Natz put up a weak fight next year, Labour will be in with just a comatose or persistently vegetative one-term government.
            • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1.1.1

              28 July 2013 at 12:14 am

              Mate, no fate but what we make.
    • emergency mike 27.2

      27 July 2013 at 10:51 pm

      I was also pretty sickened by that TV3 ‘piece’.

      It was about two degrees of separtion away from:

      “Today some silly people did a silly protest. They looked pretty silly doing it too! Here’s a clip of a guy saying that the GCSB bill is ‘really bad’. Wow what bunch of clowns. They say they are worried about privacy. There was a powerful smell of marijuana in the air, so there you go. They climbed over a fence next an open gate hahahaha. They don’t seem to understand that the world is a dangerous place full of terrorists, WMDs, and envelopes with flour in them. John Key says that if you’ve got nothing to hide then you’ve got nothing to fear, so all these afraidy-cats must be criminals. John Key says they will be investigated to find out what they’ve done wrong and dealt with by the justice system quickly so don’t worry. He’s not even bovvered about it.”
      • Murray Olsen 27.2.1

        28 July 2013 at 5:14 pm

        That could have been straight off Fox News. As to the fence that was climbed over – apparently it was a gate that had been closed behind the marchers, leaving a very narrow exit gate. TV3 really is earning their coming tax writeoff, or whatever else they expect in exchange.
    • QoT 27.3

      27 July 2013 at 11:05 pm

      “armed with placards” is always a favourite smear-media phrase of mine.

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