Govt opts for show over substance on alcohol

Written By: - Date published: 11:10 am, August 24th, 2010 - 49 comments
Categories: drugs, health, law and "order" - Tags:

The government’s alcohol reforms are so typical of this government: criminalise someone to be seen to be doing something, while ignoring the root causes of the problem.

The centrepiece of the reforms is making it illegal for an adult to supply alcohol to a minor without their parent’s permission. Quite correctly, people have been asking the government how this will actually be enforced – are we going to waste the Police’s time running round after parents to determine whether a 17 year old was allowed to have a beer? The Government admits that it won’t be supplying any resources to enforce this law and obviously doesn’t expect the Police to waste their time. Rather, they are making the laughable argument that this law will give parents a new ‘tool’ to prevent other kids drinking at their place. As one of the journos asked Key as his press conference yesterday ‘do you really think that parents are being peer pressured by teens?’

Key responded by asserting that teens are drinking and having sex at younger and younger ages before saying ‘I don’t have any evidence to back that up’. There you have it New Zealand, more law-making based on Key’s guesses.

And what exact problem is this law meant to be solving anyway? Are kids really getting their booze from their mates’ parents? Like most Kiwis, I was drinking on weekends pretty regularly from about 16 onwards. I could count on one hand the number of times an adult was even present. We didn’t get booze from adults, we got it from our 6 foot 5 mate who just bought it at the store.

As John Campbell put to Simon Power last night, isn’t this just law for law’s sake?

Yep, it is. This is just the government’s attempt to appear to do something. As Campbell pointed out, the existing booze laws aren’t enforced – you can go into any pub in the country and see a pissed person being served. And as a country we wouldn’t have it any other way because (whisper it quietly) the point of going out drinking is to get intoxicated. This government has no intention of enforcing the existing law, let alone the new ones it’s passing.

Then there’s what they’ve chosen not to do. We all know that advertising has a huge influence over society. The banning of cigarette advertising went a long way to making it not normal, which led to a reduction in its use. But this is a government that supports big business’s right to make a profit above all else. Just as they won’t take sensible steps to make smoking less attractive, they have refused to put sensible limits on alcohol advertising.

This is a government that would rather make a criminal of a good parent who lets their son’s mate have a beer at a BBQ than make it harder for booze barons to hook kids into drinking.

49 comments on “Govt opts for show over substance on alcohol ”

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  1. Big Dog 1
    24 August 2010 at 11:35 am

    Right on, Eddie.

    • Fisiani 1.1
      24 August 2010 at 12:13 pm

      Yeah right. No, cant say that as it would be banned under Labour as alcohol advertising.

      • bbfloyd 1.1.1
        24 August 2010 at 12:46 pm

        i see you’re still practicing for the day (don)key asks you to be his speechwriter fis. keep up the good work…

      • Tigger 1.1.2
        24 August 2010 at 12:48 pm

        Actually Nanny McKee is proving far more ban-happy than you imagine Labour to be. He’s even telling us how to raise our kids now. Do as I say AND as I do…damn, it’s gonna be a boring life if I follow that advice Slime Minister…

  2. Chuck 2
    24 August 2010 at 11:40 am

    Young drinkers will need a diploma in drinking to know what and when is legal. Could be something you see offered at polytechs soon. Brought to you by NZ corp – home of arseheaded legislation.

  3. gobsmacked 3
    24 August 2010 at 12:19 pm

    John Key’s not opposed to all binge drinking …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/4002417/All-Blacks-savour-success

    “Richshie, yoush my besht friend, Dan, Dan, come here, I love you man, yesh I do …”

  4. swimmer 4
    24 August 2010 at 12:28 pm

    It won’t change anything.

  5. bbfloyd 5
    24 August 2010 at 12:28 pm

    i was reading the copy of the herald that were being given away at the asb , and the front page carried the headline “BOOZE LAW PUTS YOU IN CONTROL”. in the fine print the article went on to detail the govt’s intention to give local communities the power to regulate the number of, and the trading hours of liquor outlets within their own neighborhoods.
    the first thought that struck me was how easy it would be for people with vested interests to hijack the decisionmaking process.
    i seen to remember that this was one of the reasons that auckland local body politics were restructured in the first instance. to counter the negative influence of smaller councils being dominated by said vested interests. which led to almost unworkable infrastructure management.
    correct me if i’m wrong, but this strikes me as another example of the government shifting responsibility away from itself, yet again.
    is that a beehive or a chicken coop down there in wellington. ?

    • Jenny 5.1
      25 August 2010 at 8:13 am

      bb

      With these minor reforms to the liquor laws, even main stream commentators think vested interest has already “hijack(ed) the decision making process.”

      John Armstrong the New Zealand Herald’s political correspondent questions the integrity of the “endless” claims made by the Justice Minister that he had “struck the right balance”.

      Armstrong:

      ……retail and liquor lobbies – guided much of the Cabinet’s decision-making on the forthcoming new liquor law.
      Buried at the back of the Cabinet paper is a separate report produced by Ministry of Justice officials. It says any package which did not use levers like raising tax rates, tightening advertising and sponsorship rules and changing the minimum drinking age would have a lesser impact on alcohol-related harm.

      When the Business Roundtable praises you for not adopting “heavy-handed” measures, you have to ask yourself if you really have “struck the right balance” – as Power endlessly claimed yesterday.

      If you consider the word “right” in it’s political sense, meaning a political tendency that would put the interests of big business booze barons above the well being and health of society. Then maybe Armstrong was wrong and Powers is being honest after all.

      capcha – suits (how apt)

  6. Lats 6
    24 August 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Could we have a clear and concise response from someone from Labour about what their policy moves would be on this issue please? And I’m not talking hollow rhetoric, but actual policy intentions.

    • bbfloyd 6.1
      24 August 2010 at 12:54 pm

      seeing as how you’re too bone idle to find out for yourself. we’ll try to organize for them to come around to your house and explain it to you personally.

      • Lats 6.1.1
        24 August 2010 at 1:14 pm

        Thanks for the really helpful input Floyd. I happen to be a Labour voter myself, and have been scanning the manifesto on the Labour website, but so far haven’t found any concrete measures, just a fluffy wishlist of ideas with no indication of how they are going to be achieved. Luckily some of us are more interested in substance than abuse 😉

        • Lats 6.1.1.1
          24 August 2010 at 1:26 pm

          So far all I’ve found is:

          * Making it an offence for alcohol to be supplied to minors by anyone other than parent or guardian – Nats are proposing this too
          * Zero blood alcohol for under 20’s driving
          * Referring minors who drink to a treatment programme instead of a fine
          * Illegal to use fake ID’s

          Seems that much like the Nats, Labour are demonising young drinkers without actually tackling the real issues surrounding our “drinking culture”

          I do applaud plans to spend more on treating addicts, and there are suggestions about allowing local authorities to have more input into alcohol outlets. I don’t see much policy different to the Nats, so not sure what all the outrage is against Jonkey’s proposals.

          • Herodotus 6.1.1.1.1
            24 August 2010 at 2:49 pm

            http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/08/18/for-the-record/
            http://commonz.wotfun.com/bill/30
            http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/d/5/5/47HansD_20050608_00000975-Sale-of-Liquor-Youth-Alcohol-Harm-Reduction.htm
            These links will give you Lats an idea of where current Lab pollys thinking is based on. They in 05 appeared to support the status quo with a similar ratio as the Nats 2:1 in favour of 18yrs purchasing age. But that was before the public at large is moving against this and ther eis limited political damage for pushing a harder line on the subject.
            To hit the alcohol sellers, easy tough line policy you sell to under age loss of licence for 3 – months and longer penalties for repeat offenders. Imagine Countdown or Pak n Save have the loss of the ability to sell, hits their profit. The only negative would be some of us 25+ being asked for ID and having a chuckle that we could pass for under 20 !!!
            I was also for 80 blood level but from reading on have come to the point that 50 should be the new level, with resourching of police, courts and support services to offenders, none of the headlines repeat offender, offends again , runs from police etc. My concern is that we cannot police 80mg how will we go about the added increase regarding 50?

            • Lats 6.1.1.1.1.1
              24 August 2010 at 3:44 pm

              Thanks for the links, I’ll check them out soon. I’m at work, so can’t spend too long slacking off on the internet 🙂

              I have to say I’m less inclined to target alcohol retailers, and would prefer we targeted minors who seek to gain alcohol illegally. I also don’t necessarily see the need for lowering blood/breath alcohol for drivers. I assume that drivers who cause accidents will already be exceeding the current limits, so I’m not convinced that lowering the limit will have an impact. If 0.08 didn’t discourage drinkers from driving at levels >0.08, then 0.05 will most likely be similarly ineffective. However, I hope I’m proven wrong on this one.

              • Ari …
                24 August 2010 at 6:22 pm

                Lats: You have any suggestion to target sale of alcohol to minors, or is that just aspirational?

                Personally, I think even that’s the wrong approach. You can’t cut a tree off at its roots without first digging down to them. We have to attack the culture that says the point of drinking is to get off your face- and that culture isn’t generated by youth, it’s generated by older binge drinkers who serve as examples all the way back down the line, not to mention all the glorification of alcohol through advertising and sponsorship.

                On blood alcohol limits: Actually, estimates were that this policy would have been extraordinarily effective, even though people would still flout the limit, because it would encourage sensible drinkers to avoid drinking altogether if they’re going to drive. The benefit:cost ratio on it was something like 190:1, which is amazing- you’ll probably never see a policy with that sort of benefit again in your lifetime. Also, when sensible drinkers have to be even more careful, it exerts social pressure on their friends or family who drink with them to be more responsible, so it might have a small knock-on effect to people who otherwise would flout the law.

                Personally, I think the best thing they could do about the problem is to crack down on serving intoxicated patrons- perhaps even to the point of breathalyzing people before their second drink. 😛

                • Pascal's bookie …
                  24 August 2010 at 6:25 pm

                  I think the best thing they could do about the problem is to crack down on serving intoxicated patrons

                  Except in casino’s obviously. What we should do is tell all the other places that sell booze to close earlier than casinos so that punters wanting another bevvy will be encouraged to blow all their money on slot machines and P.

                  Or is that stupid, but what we are doing anyway?

                • Lats …
                  25 August 2010 at 8:48 am

                  To be honest Ari, it’s is aspirational. I simply think it is unfair to continually blame the retailers when it is the underage customer who is attempting to break the law. I have no really bright ideas about how to get around this though.

                  I agree that the issue with alcohol is systemic, it goes way beyond a few pissed teenagers causing trouble. They learn this behaviour from their elders and peers. It was nice to see Jacinda Adern approach the issue more holistically as well (see the first link in Herodotus’ post above.) I guess the problem is that it isn’t easy to deal with a broad societal issue likie this with legislation, so successive govts have instead chosen to try to grab votes by targetting what many see as the problem (young drinkers) when in fact they are more a symptom of a more widespread malaise.

                  I do think we need to tread a careful line though, as many many people are able to enjoy a few drinks without causing problems. I don’t want alcohol restrictions to be so draconian that they spoil the fun for those of us who can drink responsibly.

          • mcflock 6.1.1.1.2
            24 August 2010 at 5:33 pm

            I thought is was already illegal to use a fake ID – DL/ passports/ 18+ are all official documents, so you’re either altering it to mislead or impersonating (e.g. older brother).

            Again, it’s down to enforcing current law.

            on the zero alcohol tolerance, some people are under the impression that “one or two” over “an hour or so” is fine – and their math gets a wee bit dodgy…

            • Lats 6.1.1.1.2.1
              25 August 2010 at 8:27 am

              …some people are under the impression that “one or two’ over “an hour or so’ is fine

              If the spot on Campbell Live was anything to go by one or two over an hour is very much on the conservative end. One of the guys on the show managed to down a dozen beers before his breath alcohol exceeded the legal limit. I don’t recall the parameters of the experiment, but it certainly suggests that we can drink more than the current expectation and still be “legally” able to drive.

        • bbfloyd 6.1.1.2
          25 August 2010 at 1:43 pm

          lats… i put my hand up for sarcasm, not abuse. as you know, the best way to wreck a good plan is to let incompetents carry it out. this can only happen if you give them a basic framework to start from. they can take it from there.
          more to the point, how much more reactive debate do we need? it seems to me that if we were serious about solving our drug abuse culture in NZ, then stopping corporate brainwashing, (liquor advertising), drafting laws that acknowledge drug abuse to be a community/medical issue rather than a justice issue would be a good start.
          i would be keen to see ideas on that aspect of the issue thrown out for perusal.

  7. Big Dog 7
    24 August 2010 at 1:12 pm

    The “libertarianism’ of people like Dave Farrarlike Sarah ‘Bridge to Nowhere’ Palin and her Tea Party is intellectually bankrupt. It’s a selfish elite who think they have the absolute right to do whatever they want, and stuff everyone else. As their spiritual high-priestess Thatcher said, there’s no such thing as society. To make thing worse, Dave doesn’t believe in rights for working class people who are ill and struggling with modern life, and commit offences. He think the state/justice/corrections should treat them as harshly/vindinctively as possible, as if they’re all Graham Burton.

    • clandestino 7.1
      24 August 2010 at 10:26 pm

      You really are living up to the stereotype. Do you not think the massively punitive anti alcohol measures creeping up on us will affect first and foremost the ‘working class people’?!?
      I’d love to see stats on fines (of all types, not just drinking related), on the poorer segments of society and young people. It’s a relatively new phenomenon and must be affecting consumer spending and debt levels. I do know it’s demoralising having copped a few.

  8. randal 8
    24 August 2010 at 1:16 pm

    yeah well its obvious that the pinheads rule at the moment.
    the dictionary of psychoanlysis defines alchoholism as a defense against passive unconscious homosexuality and that this is in itself a defense against paranoia so it is obvious that alcholism is a serious complaint.
    however as people can still go to work when they are HOOKED then it is ok for the alcohol mavens to carry on their business whatever the social cost in the long run.

  9. Bill 9
    24 August 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Why not simply have really good information on all drugs and how to use them, including dosage, compiled and made available by some body that is not either a) the prohibition salvation army or b) any government department?

    When alcohol is seen in the same light as the other drugs that we call ‘drugs’, instead of as somehow separate as in alcohol and drugs, then we might get a wee shift in attitude and consumption patterns. You can almost hear the alcohol industry scream already.

    Point is. Drug experimentation tends to be hit and miss and take place in a poorly informed environment. Hence the terrible experience of ceaseless vomiting because you drank far too much of a particular spirit that you still can’t face the smell of to this day.

    Would there be a difference in those initial and possibly habit forming behaviours if there was qualitative information emanating from organisations that were well resourced with no strings attached funding and run by fellow users and abusers?

    Or do we stick with the nonsense of having prohibitionists in the shape of the Salvation Army seeking to impose abstinence on addicts and having government agencies, who nobody has any respect for, attempting to alter behaviours by playing their laughable fear cards or their ridiculously out of touch ‘social responsibility’ campaigns?

    Oh. And the law. Always the law as an enforcer for when the government and it’s agencies refuse to tackle any root problems and when they, along with the Salvation Army, fail to apply their respective moulds and shape behaviour accordingly.

    • Puddleglum 9.1
      24 August 2010 at 9:58 pm

      Quality information (whatever that is) would work if we were born as impeccable information processors. But we aren’t, so it won’t. Your point about organisations “run by fellow users and abusers” is more likely to be the crucial factor in any successful ‘education’ programme and those running it won’t be successful because of what they say but through how they say it (i.e., clearly from experience) and by their manner.

      I don’t accuse you of this Bill, but I think that the call for ‘rational behaviour’ – often partnered with a call for an emphasis on ‘more education’ – is just the educated person’s version of the call for ‘common sense’. Both are difficult to define or agree on and tend to simply be trojan horses for someone’s preferred goal or outcome.

      People are socially embedded, evolved and adaptive biological beings who go through a developmental process that is, in this world at least, very precarious. It would be a miracle if those origins reliably produced the kind of individual who could read something or be told something and then change their behaviour.

      We just don’t work like that. We’re animals. If only we’d rationally incorporate that into our policies our world would be a very different place,

      If you don’t believe me check out this link, especially the last sentence of section 9 and all of sections 11 and 12. Until about the age of 20, our social world is just another type of womb – at least for significant parts of our brain and its development. As others have said, it’s our culture that needs addressing because ‘culture’ is just shorthand for how we treat each other and, hence, how we literally form each other – right from the start.

      • clandestino 9.1.1
        24 August 2010 at 10:39 pm

        Fully agree, which is why the anti smoking campaign results have been so underwhelming. Been around 20-25% for many years now hasn’t it? The one thing I don’t get is that if we’re all suckers for advertising, why aren’t the public service ads more effective? In fact, I would’ve thought that because of the mass of negative media surrounding alcohol, we would give a sh*t. My guess is most do a simple cost/benefit and figure there is a greater chance of fun than of mayhem, thus what feels good, they do.

  10. pollywog 10
    24 August 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I’d be looking to enact laws that would see stickers of homeless winos sleeping under bridges, drunken slappers lying in pools of their own vomit, boy racers in smashed up cars with blood everywhere, premature deformed babies in incubation chambers and old people with diseased livers on life support, plastered in prominent places over the labels of all alcohol containers.

    Accompanied by not so subtle phrases like ‘Alcohol kills’, ‘ Alcohol harms unborn babies’, ‘Alcohol is poisonous to your health’…

    I’d also ban all advertising on TV, billboards and restrict all sponsorship.

    • clandestino 10.1
      24 August 2010 at 10:29 pm

      God you must be fun to have a drink with

      • pollywog 10.1.1
        24 August 2010 at 10:49 pm

        Truth be known, I’d much rather have the odd toke and flag the piss…

        …don’t really do much of either these days

        • clandestino 10.1.1.1
          24 August 2010 at 10:58 pm

          In that case….pass the dutchie ‘pon the left hand side!

          On a more serious note, it exposes us as we really are: huge, flaming, hypocrites.

          • pollywog 10.1.1.1.1
            25 August 2010 at 8:11 am

            yeah…as i always say

            “There’s only two types of people in the world, liars and hypocrites”

            • felix 10.1.1.1.1.1
              25 August 2010 at 11:46 am

              There’s only two types of people in the world: Those who believe that people can be categorised into two discrete groups, and those who don’t. 😉

  11. Zaphod Beeblebrox 11
    24 August 2010 at 4:58 pm

    So predictable that they would do this. happens all the time.

    1.totally ignore the root cause of a social problem (ie alcohols image, glorification though advertising, association with sporting and sexual success, association with risk taking).
    2. Dump the problem onto anybody but themeslves ie councils anfd the police who don’t ahve the resources to enforce it).
    3, Pick on those who have no votes or power (youth), paint them and not the adults who set up the expectation as the problem and turn them into criminals.
    4. Then challenge Labour to do something about the problem so that you can paint yourselves as the champion of the common person if they do. Then say.. labour won’t do anything so there….
    5. Set no tangible measurable indicators of success, that would be too risky.
    6. then act as the moral authority using your conservative christian wowserism when discussing poor people and their alcohol problem, when really its a societal problem (John Banks loves doing that one).

    • clandestino 11.1
      24 August 2010 at 11:02 pm

      That’s funny I thought the root cause might be alcohol makes us feel good and we are just piss-poor judges of how much we really need to maintain that feeling, I honestly don’t remember (as a relevantly recent teenager) giving the ads a moments notice…it’s price price price people

  12. M 12
    25 August 2010 at 12:29 am

    All excellent suggestions Pollywog re the ‘in your face’ advertising of alcohol’s downside.

    I believe that a great many people in their forties and fifties are alcoholics and cannot survive an evening without at least four or five wines and then end up influencing their kids for the worse.

    Sure in my early twenties I drank more than was good for me but at the age of 26 gave it all away thinking to myself: what’s the point in working out five days a week just to ruin all the good work over the weekend?

    I’m not against anyone having a few now and again, as I do myself, but for a lot of people it’s a steady diet and from what I’ve read the benefits of alcohol for women in particular do not accrue until after menopause. If the overuse of Listerine can give you oral cancer, what do people imagine an uninterrupted diet of beer etc does to them?

    The 0.5 limit cannot come fast enough and a zero limit would be even better. Also if people drive for their living and have a DUI they should not be granted special licences hard cheese if they want to play roulette with their income stream.

    If the number crunchers compared the damage that alcohol causes with all other drugs I’m sure the illicit drugs figure would be dwarfed.

    Johnny and his Keystone cops do anything? Nah, that would take real men with real cojones. National’s only interest is assuming the role of catamite to the booze barons.

  13. pollywog 13
    25 August 2010 at 8:39 am

    Chur M…

    If i were proactively inclined, i’d run up a few stickers myself and covertly plaster them on some high priced bottles of plonk at the supermarket and liquor stores. Video and youtube myself doing it, ala Banksy and his Tate museum exploits, and if i got arrested, make a big brouhaha about it highlighting the hypocrisy between alcohol and tobacco….Unfortunately, i’m personally trying to fly under the radar.

    Hmmmm…maybe i could form some sort of ‘Army of the 12 Monkeys’ type of outfit with me being like ‘eyes only’ from ‘Dark Angel’ and get my minions to do the damage…heh

    I reckon sooner or later it’s gonna take some shock and awe type guerilla advertising/awareness campaign, way beyond the scope of Ansell’s beach billboards, to wake the people up to how intrinsically dishonest and hypocritical this gov’t is…

    …like maybe a terminal alcoholic could pour ‘opal nero’ over themself on parliament grounds and set themself alight…nah, Ok that’s a bit extreme, but a burning effigy of John Key wearing a Tui beer T-shirt might look good on the telly 🙂

  14. B 14
    25 August 2010 at 9:25 am

    I think National have done well. The alcohol limit of RTDs will be limited to 5%. Surely this is a good move from the govt and should have been put in place years ago. Actually lowering the alcohol content of drinks aimed at young people is going to have a greater effect that simply regulating advertising. And it makes sense to raise the age to 20 for bottle shops but not bars-it makes it harder for underage kids to get hold of spirits cheaply. And in effect they have raised the price of alcohol for 18-20 yr olds.

    • pollywog 14.1
      25 August 2010 at 9:56 am

      Choice…so now the kiddies are getting steered away from RTD’s towards higher alcohol content drinks or maybe the message is to drink more alcopops ?

      and you could raise the age to 40 but it wouldn’t make any difference to young peoples attitudes to drinking or limit their access to it…IMO

    • Lats 14.2
      25 August 2010 at 11:20 am

      Except that kids are a lot smarter than politicians. They will switch to something other than alcopops. My guess is that we’ll see a rise in sale of cask wine (readily available from supermarkets) which provides a better bang for your buck than 5% limited rtd’s. That was always our “cheap booze to get pissed on” when we were teenagers in the 80’s/90’s; back then the only thing available vaguely like rtd’s was wine cooler.

      • mcflock 14.2.1
        25 August 2010 at 3:39 pm

        One thing I never understood is how NZ school math scores are allegedly poor – looking back on the advanced mathematics my peers and I performed in order to find the cheapest drink by mL of ethanol…

        and then there was the guy who swore by cough syrup. No idea how he could drink so much of it, but he had a lovely voice 😉

      • B 14.2.2
        26 August 2010 at 9:56 am

        I disagree – its still a good move. Kids will still buy rtds – they taste like fizzy drink! But they will get less of an effect. If they drink more it will cost more- and teens have limited funds. Maybe some will go for cask wine etc but I doubt most will. Just because National’s policies are crap overall doesnt mean they cant do anything right…Of course this one policy isnt going to solve the whole problem – for one thing because adult drinking is a massive problem as well. But it could be the difference between some kids getting so of their face they do things they regret and calling it a night. I think it works as part of the whole package. (Giving communities a say on liquor outlets was another good move)

  15. Outofbed 15
    25 August 2010 at 10:20 am

    look if you were working for minimum wage at some scungy supermarket and you know “that a queue stretches around the block waiting for you to drop” and you know that you are probably going to have to rent a damp shithole for 40% of your take home pay for the foreseeable future
    Then is it any wonder you get shitfaced at the weekend???

    • B 15.1
      26 August 2010 at 10:00 am

      But dealing with the root causes of teen substance abuse: poverty, inequality and institutional discrimination will never be on this govts agenda. The blame lies with the parents according to them. Individual responsibility!

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    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies. Brian Easton writes – The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    20 hours ago

  • Climate Change: Fossils
    When the new government promised to allow new offshore oil and gas exploration, they were warned that there would be international criticism and reputational damage. Naturally, they arrogantly denied any possibility that that would happen. And then they finally turned up at COP, to criticism from Palau, and a "fossil ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago

  • GEOFFREY MILLER:  NZ’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    Geoffrey Miller writes – New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    21 hours ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    22 hours ago

  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago

  • Be Honest.
    Let’s begin today by thinking about job interviews.During my career in Software Development I must have interviewed hundreds of people, hired at least a hundred, but few stick in the memory.I remember one guy who was so laid back he was practically horizontal, leaning back in his chair until his ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    23 hours ago

  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    1 day ago

  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
    Auckland’s city rail link is the most expensive rail project in the world per km, and the CRL boss has described the cost of infrastructure construction in Aotearoa as a crisis. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The 3.5 km City Rail Link (CRL) tunnel under Auckland’s CBD has cost ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago

  • First big test coming
    The first big test of the new Government’s approach to Treaty matters is likely to be seen in the return of the Resource Management Act. RMA Minister Chris Bishop has confirmed that he intends to introduce legislation to repeal Labour’s recently passed Natural and Built Environments Act and its ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 day ago

  • The Song of Saqua: Volume III
    Time to revisit something I haven’t covered in a while: the D&D campaign, with Saqua the aquatic half-vampire. Last seen in July: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/07/27/the-song-of-saqua-volume-ii/ The delay is understandable, once one realises that the interim saw our DM come down with a life-threatening medical situation. They have since survived to make ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    1 day ago

  • Chris Bishop: Smokin’
    Yes. Correct. It was an election result. And now we are the elected government. ...
    My ThinksBy boonman
    2 days ago

  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #48
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 26, 2023 thru Dec 2, 2023. Story of the Week CO2 readings from Mauna Loa show failure to combat climate change Daily atmospheric carbon dioxide data from Hawaiian volcano more ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago

  • Affirmative Action.
    Affirmative Action was a key theme at this election, although I don’t recall anyone using those particular words during the campaign.They’re positive words, and the way the topic was talked about was anything but. It certainly wasn’t a campaign of saying that Affirmative Action was a good thing, but that, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago

  • 100 days of something
    It was at the end of the Foxton straights, at the end of 1978, at 100km/h, that someone tried to grab me from behind on my Yamaha.They seemed to be yanking my backpack. My first thought was outrage. My second was: but how? Where have they come from? And my ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago

  • Look who’s stepped up to champion Winston
    There’s no news to be gleaned from the government’s official website today  – it contains nothing more than the message about the site being under maintenance. The time this maintenance job is taking and the costs being incurred have us musing on the government’s commitment to an assault on inflation. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago

  • What's The Story?
    Don’t you sometimes wish they’d just tell the truth? No matter how abhorrent or ugly, just straight up tell us the truth?C’mon guys, what you’re doing is bad enough anyway, pretending you’re not is only adding insult to injury.Instead of all this bollocks about the Smokefree changes being to do ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • The longest of weeks
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday Under New Management Week in review, quiz style1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Suggested sessions of EGU24 to submit abstracts to
    Like earlier this year, members from our team will be involved with next year's General Assembly of the European Geosciences Union (EGU). The conference will take place on premise in Vienna as well as online from April 14 to 19, 2024. The session catalog has been available since November 1 ...
    Skeptical Science
    3 days ago

  • Under New Management
    1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. Under New Management 2. Which of these best describes the 100 days of action announced this week by the new government?a. Petulantb. Simplistic and wrongheaded c. ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • While we wait patiently, our new Minister of Education is up and going with a 100-day action plan
    Sorry to say, the government’s official website is still out of action. When Point of Order paid its daily visit, the message was the same as it has been for the past week: Site under maintenance Beehive.govt.nz is currently under maintenance. We will be back shortly. Thank you for your ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • DAVID FARRAR: Hysterical bullshit
    Radio NZ reports: Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has accused the new government of “deliberate .. systemic genocide” over its policies to roll back the smokefree policy and the Māori Health Authority. The left love hysterical language. If you oppose racial quotas in laws, you are a racist. And now if you sack ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #48 2023
    Open access notables From this week's government/NGO section, longitudinal data is gold and Leisorowitz, Maibachi et al. continue to mine ore from the US public with Climate Change in the American Mind: Politics & Policy, Fall 2023: Drawing on a representative sample of the U.S. adult population, the authors describe how registered ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • ELE LUDEMANN: It wasn’t just $55 million
    Ele Ludemann writes –  Winston Peters reckons media outlets were bribed by the $55 million Public Interest Journalism Fund. He is not the first to make such an accusation. Last year, the Platform outlined conditions media signed up to in return for funds from the PJIF: . . . ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago

  • Weekly Roundup 1-December-2023
    Wow, it’s December already, and it’s a Friday. So here are few things that caught our attention recently. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt covered the new government’s coalition agreements and what they mean for transport. On Tuesday Matt looked at AT’s plans for fare increases ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago

  • Shane MacGowan Is Gone.
    Late 1996, The Dogs Bollix, Tamaki Makaurau.I’m at the front of the bar yelling my order to the bartender, jostling with other thirsty punters on a Friday night, keen to piss their wages up against a wall letting loose. The black stuff, long luscious pints of creamy goodness. Back down ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • The Hoon around the week to Dec 1
    Nicola Willis, Chris Bishop and other National, ACT and NZ First MPs applaud the signing of the coalition agreements, which included the reversal of anti-smoking measures while accelerating tax cuts for landlords. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago

  • 2023 More Reading: November (+ Writing Update)
    Completed reads for November: A Modern Utopia, by H.G. Wells The Vampire (poem), by Heinrich August Ossenfelder The Corpus Hermeticum The Corpus Hermeticum is Mead’s translation. Now, this is indeed a very quiet month for reading. But there is a reason for that… You see, ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    4 days ago

  • Forward to 2017
    The coalition party agreements are mainly about returning to 2017 when National lost power. They show commonalities but also some serious divergencies.The two coalition agreements – one National and ACT, the other National and New Zealand First – are more than policy documents. They also describe the processes of the ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    5 days ago

  • Questions a nine year old might ask the new Prime Minister
    First QuestionYou’re going to crack down on people ram-raiding dairies, because you say hard-working dairy owners shouldn’t have to worry about getting ram-raided.But once the chemist shops have pseudoephedrine in them again, they're going to get ram-raided all the time. Do chemists not work as hard as dairy owners?Second QuestionYou ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Questions a nine year old might ask the new Prime Minister
    First QuestionYou’re going to crack down on people ram-raiding dairies, because you say hard-working dairy owners shouldn’t have to worry about getting ram-raided.But once the chemist shops have pseudoephedrine in them again, they're going to get ram-raided all the time. Do chemists not work as hard as dairy owners?Second QuestionYou ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Finally
    Henry Kissinger is finally dead. Good fucking riddance. While Americans loved him, he was a war criminal, responsible for most of the atrocities of the final quarter of the twentieth century. Cambodia. Bangladesh. Chile. East Timor. All Kissinger. Because of these crimes, Americans revere him as a "statesman" (which says ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago

  • Government in a hurry – Luxon lists 49 priorities in 100-day plan while Peters pledges to strength...
    Buzz from the Beehive Yes, ministers in the new government are delivering speeches and releasing press statements. But the message on the government’s official website was the same as it has been for the past several days, when Point of Order went looking for news from the Beehive that had ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago

  • DAVID FARRAR: Luxon is absolutely right
    David Farrar writes  –  1 News reports: Christopher Luxon says he was told by some Kiwis on the campaign trail they “didn’t know” the difference between Waka Kotahi, Te Pūkenga and Te Whatu Ora. Speaking to Breakfast, the incoming prime minister said having English first on government agencies will “make sure” ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Top 10 at 10 am for Thursday, Nov 30
    There are fears that mooted changes to building consent liability could end up driving the building industry into an uninsured hole. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Thursday, November 30, including:The new Government’s ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell on how climate change threatens cricket‘s future
    Well that didn’t last long, did it? Mere days after taking on what he called the “awesome responsibility” of being Prime Minister, M Christopher Luxon has started blaming everyone else, and complaining that he has inherited “economic vandalism on an unprecedented scale” – which is how most of us are ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    5 days ago

  • We need to talk about Tory.
    The first I knew of the news about Tory Whanau was when a tweet came up in my feed.The sort of tweet that makes you question humanity, or at least why you bother with Twitter. Which is increasingly a cesspit of vile inhabitants who lurk spreading negativity, hate, and every ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Dangling Transport Solutions
    Cable Cars, Gondolas, Ropeways and Aerial Trams are all names for essentially the same technology and the world’s biggest maker of them are here to sell them as an public transport solution. Stuff reports: Austrian cable car company Doppelmayr has launched its case for adding aerial cable cars to New ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    5 days ago

  • November AMA
    Hi,It’s been awhile since I’ve done an Ask-Me-Anything on here, so today’s the day. Ask anything you like in the comments section, and I’ll be checking in today and tomorrow to answer.Leave a commentNext week I’ll be giving away a bunch of these Mister Organ blu-rays for readers in New ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago

  • National’s early moves adding to cost of living pressure
    The cost of living grind continues, and the economic and inflation honeymoon is over before it began. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: PM Christopher Luxon unveiled his 100 day plan yesterday with an avowed focus of reducing cost-of-living pressures, but his Government’s initial moves and promises are actually elevating ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago

  • Backwards to the future
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has confirmed that it will be back to the future on planning legislation. This will be just one of a number of moves which will see the new government go backwards as it repeals and cost-cuts its way into power. They will completely repeal one ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago

  • New initiatives in science and technology could point the way ahead for Luxon government
    As the new government settles into the Beehive, expectations are high that it can sort out some  of  the  economic issues  confronting  New Zealand. It may take time for some new  ministers to get to grips with the range of their portfolio work and responsibilities before they can launch the  changes that  ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    6 days ago

  • Treaty pledge to secure funding is contentious – but is Peters being pursued by a lynch mob after ...
    TV3 political editor Jenna Lynch was among the corps of political reporters who bridled, when Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters told them what he thinks of them (which is not much). She was unabashed about letting her audience know she had bridled. More usefully, she drew attention to something which ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • How long does this last?
    I have a clear memory of every election since 1969 in this plucky little nation of ours. I swear I cannot recall a single one where the question being asked repeatedly in the first week of the new government was: how long do you reckon they’ll last? And that includes all ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • National’s giveaway politics
    We already know that national plans to boost smoking rates to collect more tobacco tax so they can give huge tax-cuts to mega-landlords. But this morning that policy got even more obscene - because it turns out that the tax cut is retrospective: Residential landlords will be able to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago

  • CHRIS TROTTER: Who’s driving the right-wing bus?
    Who’s At The Wheel? The electorate’s message, as aggregated in the polling booths on 14 October, turned out to be a conservative political agenda stronger than anything New Zealand has seen in five decades. In 1975, Bill Rowling was run over by just one bus, with Rob Muldoon at the wheel. In 2023, ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • GRAHAM ADAMS:  Media knives flashing for Luxon’s government
    The fear and loathing among legacy journalists is astonishing Graham Adams writes – No one is going to die wondering how some of the nation’s most influential journalists personally view the new National-led government. It has become abundantly clear within a few days of the coalition agreements ...
    Point of OrderBy gadams1000
    6 days ago

  • Top 10 news links for Wednesday, Nov 29
    TL;DR: Here’s my pick of top 10 news links elsewhere for Wednesday November 29, including:The early return of interest deductibility for landlords could see rebates paid on previous taxes and the cost increase to $3 billion from National’s initial estimate of $2.1 billion, CTU Economist Craig Renney estimated here last ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • Smokefree Fallout and a High Profile Resignation.
    The day after being sworn in the new cabinet met yesterday, to enjoy their honeymoon phase. You remember, that period after a new government takes power where the country, and the media, are optimistic about them, because they haven’t had a chance to stuff anything about yet.Sadly the nuptials complete ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago

  • As Cabinet revs up, building plans go on hold
    Wellington Council hoardings proclaim its preparations for population growth, but around the country councils are putting things on hold in the absence of clear funding pathways for infrastructure, and despite exploding migrant numbers. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Cabinet meets in earnest today to consider the new Government’s 100-day ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • National takes over infrastructure
    Though New Zealand First may have had ambitions to run the infrastructure portfolios, National would seem to have ended up firmly in control of them.  POLITIK has obtained a private memo to members of Infrastructure NZ yesterday, which shows that the peak organisation for infrastructure sees  National MPs Chris ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • At a glance – Evidence for global warming
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    7 days ago

  • Who’s Driving The Right-Wing Bus?
    Who’s At The Wheel? The electorate’s message, as aggregated in the polling booths on 14 October, turned out to be a conservative political agenda stronger than anything New Zealand has seen in five decades. In 1975, Bill Rowling was run over by just one bus, with Rob Muldoon at the wheel. In ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • Sanity break
    Cheers to reader Deane for this quote from Breakfast TV today:Chloe Swarbrick to Brook van Velden re the coalition agreement: “... an unhinged grab-bag of hot takes from your drunk uncle at Christmas”Cheers also to actual Prime Minister of a country Christopher Luxon for dorking up his swearing-in vows.But that's enough ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago

  • Sanity break
    Cheers to reader Deane for this quote from Breakfast TV today:Chloe Swarbrick to Brook van Velden re the coalition agreement: “... an unhinged grab-bag of hot takes from your drunk uncle at Christmas”Cheers also to actual Prime Minister of a country Christopher Luxon for dorking up his swearing-in vows.But that's enough ...
    More than a fieldingBy David Slack
    7 days ago

  • National’s murderous smoking policy
    One of the big underlying problems in our political system is the prevalence of short-term thinking, most usually seen in the periodic massive infrastructure failures at a local government level caused by them skimping on maintenance to Keep Rates Low. But the new government has given us a new example, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago

  • NZ has a chance to rise again as our new government gets spending under control
    New Zealand has  a chance  to  rise  again. Under the  previous  government, the  number of New Zealanders below the poverty line was increasing  year by year. The Luxon-led government  must reverse that trend – and set about stabilising  the  pillars  of the economy. After the  mismanagement  of the outgoing government created   huge ...
    Point of OrderBy tutere44
    7 days ago

  • KARL DU FRESNE: Media and the new government
    Two articles by Karl du Fresne bring media coverage of the new government into considerations.  He writes –    Tuesday, November 28, 2023 The left-wing media needed a line of attack, and they found one The left-wing media pack wasted no time identifying the new government’s weakest point. Seething over ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    7 days ago

  • PHILIP CRUMP:  Team of rivals – a CEO approach to government leadership
    The work begins Philip Crump wrote this article ahead of the new government being sworn in yesterday – Later today the new National-led coalition government will be sworn in, and the hard work begins. At the core of government will be three men – each a leader ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    7 days ago

  • Black Friday
    As everyone who watches television or is on the mailing list for any of our major stores will confirm, “Black Friday” has become the longest running commercial extravaganza and celebration in our history. Although its origins are obscure (presumably dreamt up by American salesmen a few years ago), it has ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    7 days ago

  • In Defense of the Media.
    Yesterday the Ministers in the next government were sworn in by our Governor General. A day of tradition and ceremony, of decorum and respect. Usually.But yesterday Winston Peters, the incoming Deputy Prime Minister, and Foreign Minister, of our nation used it, as he did with the signing of the coalition ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago

  • Top 10 news links at 10 am for Tuesday, Nov 28
    Nicola Willis’ first move was ‘spilling the tea’ on what she called the ‘sobering’ state of the nation’s books, but she had better be able to back that up in the HYEFU. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of top 10 news links elsewhere at 10 am ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    7 days ago

  • PT use up but fare increases coming
    Yesterday Auckland Transport were celebrating, as the most recent Sunday was the busiest Sunday they’ve ever had. That’s a great outcome and I’m sure the ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    1 week ago

  • The very opposite of social investment
    Nicola Willis (in blue) at the signing of the coalition agreement, before being sworn in as both Finance Minister and Social Investment Minister. National’s plan to unwind anti-smoking measures will benefit her in the first role, but how does it stack up from a social investment viewpoint? Photo: Lynn Grieveson ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 week ago

  • Giving Tuesday
    For the first time "in history" we decided to jump on the "Giving Tuesday" bandwagon in order to make you aware of the options you have to contribute to our work! Projects supported by Skeptical Science Inc. Skeptical Science Skeptical Science is an all-volunteer organization but ...
    Skeptical Science
    1 week ago

  • Let's open the books with Nicotine Willis
    Let’s say it’s 1984,and there's a dreary little nation at the bottom of the Pacific whose name rhymes with New Zealand,and they've just had an election.Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, will you look at the state of these books we’ve opened,cries the incoming government, will you look at all this mountain ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago

  • Climate Change: Stopping oil
    National is promising to bring back offshore oil and gas drilling. Naturally, the Greens have organised a petition campaign to try and stop them. You should sign it - every little bit helps, and as the struggle over mining conservation land showed, even National can be deterred if enough people ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Don’t accept Human Rights Commission reading of data on Treaty partnership – read the survey fin...
    Wellington is braced for a “massive impact’ from the new government’s cutting public service jobs, The Post somewhat grimly reported today. Expectations of an economic and social jolt are based on the National-Act coalition agreement to cut public service numbers in each government agency in a cost-trimming exercise  “informed by” head ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Further humanitarian support for Gaza, the West Bank and Israel
    The Government is contributing a further $5 million to support the response to urgent humanitarian needs in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel, bringing New Zealand’s total contribution to the humanitarian response so far to $10 million. “New Zealand is deeply saddened by the loss of civilian life and the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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