How I answered the census ‘gender’ question 

Written By: - Date published: 10:44 am, April 13th, 2023 - 77 comments
Categories: gender - Tags: , , , , , ,

Laura López is the mother of two girls and holds a graduate degree in psychology. She writes Arguments With Friends on Substack. Her work has been featured by Reality’s Last Stand, The Standard, Plain Sight, The Platform, Resist Gender Education, and Speak Up for Women New Zealand.

I don’t have a gender identity – and you probably don’t have one either.

New Zealand’s 2018 census was widely regarded as a failure, leading to the resignation of the Chief Executive of Stats NZ. This year’s census has also become mired in controversy. This time, the controversy is due to a poorly defined and confusing question about ‘gender’.

Outside of those who are well versed in the culture wars, few New Zealanders will have fully understood the meaning and implications of this question. But many people know instinctively that it doesn’t feel quite right. For those who care about responding honestly and accurately, answering this question is a minefield.

The information collected by the census is important, and I’d encourage everyone to complete it. I also support Stats NZ’s goal of collecting more data that can help agencies to serve New Zealand’s transgender population. However, Stats NZ needs to redesign how it achieves this goal.

What the census gets right

Unlike some surveys, the 2023 census asks respondents about their sex. Moreover, there are only two options – male and female. The census correctly asks about differences of sex development (also known as ‘intersex’ conditions) in a separate question. The census design thus avoids promoting the false idea that sex is a spectrum.

However, the census also asks people about their ‘gender’. And there are significant problems with the gender question.

The Stats NZ definition of gender is incomprehensible

The census defines gender as a “social and personal identity as male, female, or another gender”. But what does it mean to identify as “female” (for example) in this context? Clearly, the definition can’t be referring to identifying as biologically female, or else gender would just be a synonym for biological sex (which Stats NZ insists it is not).

Perhaps Stats NZ has defined gender more clearly elsewhere? If you Google, you can find the official Stats NZ definition of gender, which is:

Gender refers to a person’s social and personal identity as male, female, or another gender or genders that may be non-binary. Gender may include gender identity and/or gender expression.

Since this definition refers to ‘gender identity’, I looked up this definition as well. The Stats NZ definition of gender identity is:

Gender identity refers to a person’s internal and individual experience of gender.

These definitions are a complete mess. Gender is defined as a “personal identity” that is somehow distinct from gender identity. Gender might include gender identity, or it might not (as implied by the use of “and/or” in the Stats NZ definition of gender). And the Stats NZ definition of gender identity refers circularly back to gender.

The Stats NZ definition of gender also states that it might be based on your ‘gender expression’. The Stats NZ definition of gender expression is:

Gender expression refers to a person’s presentation of gender through physical appearance – including their dress, hairstyles, accessories, cosmetics, mannerisms, speech, behavioural patterns, names, and personal references. Gender expression may or may not conform to a person’s gender identity.

Read literally, this maze of definitions leaves it unclear whether the census gender question is asking about your “internal and individual experience”, or about your hairstyle. If a woman cuts her hair short, does that make her transgender? The Stats NZ definition of gender suggests that it might.

We should be able to read official statistical definitions literally, and have them make sense. As Stats NZ’s own survey design manual notes, “using language that is hard to understand, or overly technical and full of abbreviations and words that are not defined, makes it difficult for respondents to answer as intended”.

Confused definitions lead to confused data.

Unfortunately, Stats NZ’s confused definitions mean that census results relating to gender will be difficult to interpret. This is poor practice, and Stats NZ should be asked to do better.

The 2021 census of England and Wales should offer a warning to Stats NZ. This census was the first in the world to include a question about gender identity. It produced results that seem unreliable and difficult to believe. For example, it found that “one in every 67 Muslims is transgender”.

This and similar findings were likely due to widespread confusion about what the gender identity question meant. One of the strongest predictors of reporting a trans identity was having English as a second language.

What is gender (identity)?

While Stats NZ doesn’t provide a coherent definition of gender (other than suggesting that it might depend on your hairstyle), we can gain a bit of clarity by referencing other official sources.

For example, the World Health Organisation defines gender as the “norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy”. Similarly, Merriam Webster defines gender as “the behavioural, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex”—in other words, sex stereotypes.

Gender identity refers to the gender role that someone identifies with. For example, having defined “gender” to mean “gender role”, the World Health Organisation proceeds to define gender identity as “a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender”. In other words, gender identity refers to an affinity with male or female stereotypes.

Confusingly, gender identity is often referred to as “gender” for short. In keeping with this, the census gender question appears to be asking about gender identity (and it would be a lot clearer if it was written accordingly).

It’s important to understand that adopting a gender identity does not mean identifying with your biological sex (or the opposite sex). Rather, as the World Health Organisation definitions imply, it means embracing a set of sex stereotypes.

If you’re not yet convinced of this, I highly recommend reading philosopher Kathleen Stock’s book Material Girls, which explains the origins of the concepts of gender and gender identity very clearly. Similarly, this article surveys the definitions of gender provided by a range of official sources, and my widely-shared article in Reality’s Last Stand shows how these concepts are explained to children in schools.

My experience has been that any definition of gender identity that claims not to be based on sex stereotypes quickly collapses under close examination.

Do I have a female gender (identity)?

I’m a woman, and I don’t consider myself to be transgender. Given this, I think it’s safe to say that Stats NZ expects me to happily tick the “female” gender box in the census.

Yet, like most women in New Zealand, I don’t embrace rigid female sex stereotypes. I grew up in Latin America, where machismo is still rife. The traditional female role involves sole responsibility for housework and caregiving, and a subservient position to men. I don’t want to define myself by this role.

Nor do I feel any deep inner sense of being female, other than being aware of my female body (i.e. my biological sex). Since I’ve never been a man, I don’t know how being male would feel. And if I was able to magically transform myself into a man, it seems logical that any different feelings I experienced would be caused by having male biology, or by how I was treated by society due to my biology.

The non-binary dilemma

So perhaps I don’t have a female gender identity – perhaps I’m non-binary? After all, I can relate to some female stereotypes and some male ones. And I’d like to think that I have some unique aspects to my personality that don’t neatly fit either male or female stereotypes.

It’s here that one of the central contradictions of gender ideology kicks in. While gender identity is supposedly a purely internal experience, it is also closely tied to real-world physical changes.

If I identified as non-binary, then I’d be expected to adopt non-standard pronouns (they/them, or perhaps zhe/zher). I would also be describing myself as a potential candidate for medical procedures to align my body with my new identity.

These body modifications could involve binding my breasts so tightly I could no longer breathe properly, and eventually having them surgically removed. Or they could involve having my genitals excised. Without these body modifications, it would be (falsely) supposed that I could never be happy, and might even commit suicide.

In identifying as non-binary, I would also be endorsing the idea that everyone else (who doesn’t identify as non-binary) is binary. That is, I would be implying that I expect them to fit rigid gender stereotypes.

None of this appeals to me. This is why I refuse to adopt any gender identity at all.

Am I agender?

So, since we’ve established that I have no gender identity, I can just answer the census gender question by choosing “Other” and writing “No gender”, right?

Unfortunately, if I did this, it could cause some confusion. In gender activist circles, having no gender identity makes you “agender” – neither a man nor a woman.

Like non-binary people, agender people are expected to use they/them pronouns. They are also considered candidates for genital nullification surgery, to “affirm” their lack of a gender identity. This is not really a category I want to put myself into.

When people write “none” in the census, Stats NZ will not know whether they consider themselves to be agender, or whether they reject the concept of gender identity altogether. The failure to distinguish between these two very different groups is a significant flaw in the design of the census.

The census gender question reflects a toxic belief system

The census gender question sits in the context of a broader political push by gender activists to replace biological sex with self-declared gender identity in law and society. One example is the incredibly unpopular drive to imprison male sex offenders in women’s prisons. Another is the offensive practice of forcing women to compete against males in sports. But the most damaging aspect of this political movement has been the needless medicalisation of children who don’t conform to sex stereotypes, with serious and lifelong health consequences. The damage to young New Zealanders has been especially profound.

Gender activism is animated by a toxic belief system known as gender identity theory, or gender ideology. According to this theory, what makes you a man or a woman is not your biology, but your gender identity (i.e. your subjective feeling of maleness or femaleness).

Belief in gender ideology is distinct from being transgender. Most advocates of gender ideology are not trans. And people can choose to medically transition despite rejecting gender ideology. In fact, people started medically transitioning long before gender ideology emerged. So we can (and should) accept trans people, while rejecting gender ideology as a belief system.

https://twitter.com/buttonslives/status/1641841790100570118

There are supernatural elements to some variants of gender ideology. Many adherents believe that gender identity is an ineffable essence or soul that everyone has, but only transgender people are truly in touch with (similar to the religious concept of being touched by the Holy Spirit). Some adherents even believe that a gender identity can transform human flesh, changing men into literal biological women (this is analogous to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation). And true believers seek to damn those who question these doctrines as modern-day heretics.

Because it contains supernatural elements, gender ideology is essentially a religion. No one should be forced to endorse this belief system, in the same way that no one should be forced to endorse the beliefs of any other religion.

Gender ideology is the driving force behind the recent violence against women at the Let Women Speak event in Auckland. Similar incidents have occurred overseas. Many New Zealanders now recognise the alarmingly intolerant nature of gender ideology, and want nothing to do with it.

Unfortunately, the fingerprints of gender ideology can be found all over the census. For example, within gender ideology, biological sex is falsely characterised as arbitrary and changeable. We can see this reflected in the Stats NZ definition of sex, which claims that “a person’s sex can change over the course of their lifetime and may differ from their sex recorded at birth”. Similarly, the 2023 census asks for your “sex at birth”, implying that this might somehow be different from your sex now.

The signal sent by Stats NZ’s ‘Gender by default’ policy is also obvious. Under this policy, statistical reporting is based on people’s gender identities, and information about their sex is hidden most of the time. This policy thus implies that your gender identity is more important than your sex. I disagree with this premise, and I don’t want the data I provide to Stats NZ to be abused in this way.

Meekly completing the census in line with gender identity theory feels like endorsing gender ideology, and the political movement it has inspired. I refuse to do it.

A layer of deception

Whether accidentally or deliberately, the incoherent language and definitions used by Stats NZ serve a purpose.

For example, when the census asks for your ‘gender’, and not for your ‘gender identity’, the word gender feels reassuringly familiar. This is because it traditionally referred to biological sex (and is still understood this way by many people). Gender activists have redefined this word by stealth.

It would be easy for Stats NZ to avoid the ambiguous word ‘gender’, and say either ‘gender role’ or ‘gender identity’ depending on their intended meaning. But that would make the absurdity and radicalism of gender identity theory obvious.

New Zealanders deserve a higher level of transparency and honesty from Stats NZ.

Forcing compliance with gender ideology

The census provides no guidance for people who don’t believe that the concept of gender identity applies to them. I wrote to ask what I should do if I objected to the gender question:

Hi,

How can I respond to the question ‘What is your gender?’ In order for it to reflect that I don’t have a gender? I don’t believe in gender identity, which is the definition you are using for the term gender. 

I object to this question, as there’s no option to truthfully answer it when you don’t uphold gender identity as a belief system. 

Thanks,

Laura

I received the following response:

Hi Laura,

All census responses are recorded, stored, and output securely, following our confidentiality rules. We would encourage you to respond accurately to all census questions to best inform decision making for New Zealand. However if you prefer not to disclose your gender, we recommend giving a response only to gender, but not sex at birth.

Please do not hesitate to contact us, either via the online General Enquiries form or on the phone number below, if we can be of further assistance. 

Kind regards

[Name redacted]

Customer Service Specialist

Toll free helpline 0800 CENSUS (0800 236 787)

This response is obvious nonsense. In my email, I clearly stated that I disagree with gender identity as a belief system. Yet the Stats NZ response presupposes that I do have a gender identity (which they imply that I want to hide). And then for inexplicable reasons, they suggested that I answer the question about gender and not the question about sex!

The census needs to change

Because the gender question in the 2023 census is confusing and poorly defined, data resulting from this question is likely to be misleading. It should be discarded, or at least interpreted with extreme caution. Data from the question about sex is likely to be much more meaningful and reliable, and it is this data that should guide important public policy decisions.

In future surveys and censuses, Stats NZ should avoid the use of the ambiguous term ‘gender’, replacing it with ‘gender identity’. It also needs to provide a clear, non-circular definition of what it means by gender identity. And it needs to provide meaningful advice on how people can respond to questions about gender identity if they disagree with gender ideology.

Ideally, future censuses would include a yes/no question asking whether people consider themselves to have a gender identity. Only those who say ‘yes’ should be asked to describe what that gender identity is. At the very least, Stats NZ needs to provide an explicit option for people to select if they don’t buy into gender ideology (e.g. “I don’t believe the concept of gender identity applies to me” or “I refuse to answer”).

Stats NZ has also said that if people leave the gender question blank, then they will fill in a response for them without their permission. This practice violates people’s right to ensure that data held about them is accurate. For people who reject the concept of gender identity, a blank response may be the most accurate answer. Stats NZ needs to find a different way around this problem (e.g. by classifying the person as non-transgender, without making any assumptions about their gender identity).

Future surveys can also obtain more useful information about the transgender population by asking directly about past and current use of cross-sex hormones – not just about gender identity. Asking about medical treatments received will provide data that is far more helpful for healthcare planning than subjective and ambiguous questions about identity (especially given the numerous health problems associated with taking cross-sex hormones).

Finally, the ‘gender by default’ policy needs to end, so that census data can easily be analysed by sex. We cannot just assume that gender identity is more important for outcomes than sex – only data can tell us that. To hide this data from researchers is enforcing ignorance in the name of protecting a sacred ideology. Such a policy has no place in a free, open, and secular society.

How I responded to the gender question

My response to the census gender question was “The concept of gender identity is not relevant to me”.

It is my hope that Stats NZ will not violate my rights, and corrupt the census data, by changing my response to mean something different. I believe the census is important, so I’ve put my faith in the system and completed it as best I can, despite my misgivings. Time will tell whether I’ve made the right decision.

77 comments on “How I answered the census ‘gender’ question  ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Shanreagh 1
    13 April 2023 at 11:24 am

    I left it blank.

    I put a note that reliable information for NZ planning purposes such as education, health can not come from the results of such a question.

    I wish I had added Visubversa's comnent on here that the question should have been put in the area of beliefs such as religion.

    Or added some thing like cat gender, luna gender, flower gender

    I saw the SUFW ideas too late.

    https://www.speakupforwomen.nz/post/so-you-don-t-want-to-fill-in-the-census

    I am aware I will have a gender assigned to me.

    We are likely to get a result commensurate with garbage in and garbage out.

  2. ianmac 2
    13 April 2023 at 11:49 am

    Sorry Guest Post but I saw the question as a simple question . How do I see myself?

    Male or Female or Other. Tick. End of story.

    To over think the question invites a wormhole entry. Just my view of course.

  3. bwaghorn 3
    13 April 2023 at 12:01 pm

    Not showing post on mobile

  4. SPC 4
    13 April 2023 at 12:09 pm

    Women having no gender ID will be news to those organisations consisting entirely of women that fought for gender equality.

    • weka 4.1
      13 April 2023 at 12:19 pm

      you seem to be conflating gender identity and sex. Please clarify what you mean by 'gender identity', and what you mean by 'gender equality'.

      The latter to me sounds like you are using gender as a synonym for sex and women who fought for women's (sex based) rights. Women didn't right for the right to be treated as stereotypes.

      • SPC 4.1.1
        13 April 2023 at 12:23 pm

        No. Women's organisations literally talked about gender equality. This is a fact of history. At the time women identified as the female gender.

        • SPC 4.1.1.1
          13 April 2023 at 1:38 pm

          The US Civil Rights Act 1964 refers to sex.

          But after the book The Feminine Mystique and then the founding of NOW by the writer in 1966 – in 1967, Lyndon Johnson's executive order on the affirmative action hiring of employees by federal government – referred to gender.

          declared that federal employers must take affirmative action to ensure that employees receive equal treatment and opportunities regardless of gender, race, color, or religion

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_women_in_the_United_States

          • weka 4.1.1.1.1
            13 April 2023 at 1:55 pm

            I don't know how old you are, but you have been in the gender/sex debate long enough to know this: gender is a word that historically has been used to mean sex. In the last decade it's become used to mean gender identity. Gender/sex and gender/gender identity are two different things.

            This was even mentioned in the post.

            For example, when the census asks for your ‘gender’, and not for your ‘gender identity’, the word gender feels reassuringly familiar. This is because it traditionally referred to biological sex (and is still understood this way by many people). Gender activists have redefined this word by stealth.

            Did you read the post?

            • SPC 4.1.1.1.1.1
              13 April 2023 at 2:18 pm

              It's not that simple.

              Our passports and drivers licences have on them

              gender m/f/x

              do they not?

              And people put on it their birth sex, or if not "cisgender", something otherwise (because National in 2009 passed legislation enabling this).

              So it's an all in one meaning, is it not?

              The idea that people born female, and who clearly believe that no one but a person born female can be a woman, are not themselves female by gender is a logical absurdity. And that is cult-like.

              [please explain clearly what you mean by the word ‘gender’. I asked you above, now I’m insisting, for the clarity of the debate – weka]

              • weka …
                13 April 2023 at 3:20 pm

                NZ institutions and laws have also used gender to mean sex. This predates gender identity.

                The idea that people born female, and who clearly believe that no one but a person born female can be a woman, are not themselves female by gender is a logical absurdity. And that is cult-like.

                You'll have to rephrase that word salad, because I can't make any sense of it. Whose idea is that?

              • weka …
                13 April 2023 at 3:21 pm

                mod note.

          • mpledger 4.1.1.1.2
            13 April 2023 at 2:21 pm

            That's because, almost 60 years ago, they were using gender to have a different meaning then it has today. People separated into groups by sex or gender gave identical groupings but sex was related to their physical being while gender related to their social/political being. It was a way of framing the context of the discussion.

            • SPC 4.1.1.1.2.1
              13 April 2023 at 2:33 pm

              Sure, which is why I posted 4 – it would be news to women of that time that they had no female gender identity.

              But I would bet the writer has on her DL and passport – gender female.

            • weka 4.1.1.1.2.2
              13 April 2023 at 3:23 pm

              can you please give some examples from 60 years ago so we know what you are referring to?

              • mpledger …
                3 May 2023 at 8:59 am

                Wikipedia has a nice page on how gender evolved from it's meaning as terminology in describing language to it's use in academia to talk about the socio-political roles of women rather than the use of sex, as in the science/medical sphere, where it's about the biological nature of women. It's a more recent to talk about gender and sex being different ways of grouping people.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

  5. Corey 5
    13 April 2023 at 12:15 pm

    I'll get grief but I didn't do my census this year because of the sexuality question.

    If the government wants to know I'm gay they can ask me on Grindr.

    But seriously, I'm openly gay but I felt disgusted that the government would ask me this question.

    The human rights act says I don't have to tell any government agency what my sexuality was and I'm unwilling to give up that right just so the media can say x number of kiwis aren't straight.

    For those who say the question is for funding programs to help LGBT+ people, I say so what?

    Im in my 20s, I've used some of those LGBT organizations and they are some of the most toxic, dehumanizing bullying organizations I've ever been apart of full of upper middle class people who live in bubbles (and one org "accidentally" outted me while I was in high school, and I went to a very low decile high school and was bullied ruthlessly) I'd rather those organizations get less money, not more.

    I wasn't willing to leave it blank either because then I'd be counted as "did not say" which LGBT+ orgs would assume was closeted and include in their stats.

    I know so many people who just refused to answer for the same reasons, we didn't feel comfortable with our sexuality being asked, we didn't wanna get LGBT+ organizations more funding.

    Keep the government out of the bedroom.

    • Peter 5.1
      13 April 2023 at 2:20 pm

      Does your approach mean the percentage of the population accepted to be gay will be down a smidgen?

      Do you think there should there be no questions about gender?

    • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2
      13 April 2023 at 2:33 pm

      Keep the government out of the bedroom.

      I selected "prefer not to say", because I'm such a govt toady. Keep 'em guessing smiley

    • SPC 5.3
      13 April 2023 at 2:37 pm

      Why do you think “government” has access to individual form records?

      • Incognito 5.3.1
        13 April 2023 at 2:53 pm

        We never share information that identifies you with any individual, group, or organisation. This includes government organisations like the Ministry for Social Development, Kainga Ora, the Police, or Inland Revenue.

        https://www.census.govt.nz/your-info/protecting-your-info/

        • SPC 5.3.1.1
          13 April 2023 at 2:58 pm

          It's the same misconception that the writer has – she also seems to believe that this is personal information held about them.

          • Incognito 5.3.1.1.1
            13 April 2023 at 3:05 pm

            Misconceptions and (false) beliefs rule discourse, nowadays.

            People who point this out are ignored, marginalised, ridiculed, smeared, vilified, or attacked but seldom listened to in a constructive and progressive manner.

            Pundits and shock-jocks rule!

          • Laura López 5.3.1.1.2
            14 April 2023 at 11:02 am

            For my thoughts on SPC’s comment (5.3.1.1), please see my reply to Incognito below. My reply is comment number 11.2.2.

  6. Shanreagh 6
    13 April 2023 at 2:15 pm

    I just heard from a friend's female to male transtioning grandchild and he has refused to answer the gender question as well. 'What's this stuff going to tell us?' he said.

    • Peter 6.1
      13 April 2023 at 4:01 pm

      'What's this stuff going to tell us?' That's sort of funny really.

      The stuff that they're going to get is going to tell them stuff. The stuff they don't get isn't going to tell them anything because they haven't got it.

      I don't remember what was on the form but if there was a question asking if one was transgender and all the transgender people didn't answer that, 'they' would say "See, there are no transgender people, that there are is a myth."

      Or, "We know there are transgender people but they've obviously haven't said so, so we'll take a punt. We reckon there are 61." Or if someone with a particular agenda is involved they might say there are 4, 321 or 43,210.

  7. Anker 7
    13 April 2023 at 2:34 pm

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-does-the-census-say-there-are-more-trans-people-in-newham-than-brighton/

    This article about the British census and gender question shows that Muslim and people with English as a second language have higher rates of transgenderism that people living in Brighton……

    • Shanreagh 7.1
      13 April 2023 at 3:50 pm

      I think the English example exemplifies the garbage in garbage out concept I mentioned above.

      Then for those who answered Luna gender

      https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Lunagender

      How much further forward would they be……I sense nowhere in terms related to health, welfare, education, funding for anything?

      Sociologists and other researchers will have lots of material to interrogate though while exploring this strange place we have got ourselves to.

  8. Drowsy M. Kram 8
    13 April 2023 at 2:36 pm

    Because it contains supernatural elements, gender ideology is essentially a religion. No one should be forced to endorse this belief system, in the same way that no one should be forced to endorse the beliefs of any other religion.

    An illuminating PoV on gender and gender ideology ("essentially a religion").

    Up front, I (would prefer to) view 'anti-gender' and 'gender critical' as distinct PoVs, while acknowledging that there may be some overlap.

    Surely most 'gender critical' people understand the concept/meaning of gender, and so would be able to answer the (census) question “What is your gender?” accurately, if they chose to do so. [Note that the 2023 NZ census did not force people to endorse the concept of gender.] Likewise 'anti-gender' people, although perhaps to a lesser extent.

    So we can (and should) accept trans people, while rejecting gender ideology as a belief system.

    Hmm; 'anti-gender (ideology)' people who accept trans people (and some rights?) may be a larger group than I imagined.

    Future surveys can also obtain more useful information about the transgender population by asking directly about past and current use of cross-sex hormones – not just about gender identity.

    That's a good idea – then social and health planners could get a handle not only on the number of people who have a (religious?) belief that their gender identity is incongruent with their biological sex, but also what proportion of that minority population has used medical treatments to mitigate that (self-perceived) incongruency.

    Why Sex Is Mostly Binary but Gender Is a Spectrum [15 December 2016]
    A short genetic history of one of the most profound dimensions of human identity.

    Saying the Unsayable: The Psychology of Poetry [6 March 2023]

    "The House of Belonging" by David Whyte (an excerpt)

    This is the bright home

    in which I live,

    this is where

    I ask

    my friends

    to come,

    this is where I want

    to love all the things

    it has taken me so long

    to learn to love.

    This is the temple

    of my adult aloneness

    and I belong

    to that aloneness

    as I belong to my life.

    There is no house

    like the house of belonging.

    • weka 8.1
      13 April 2023 at 7:03 pm

      Up front, I (would prefer to) view 'anti-gender' and 'gender critical' as distinct PoVs, while acknowledging that there may be some overlap.

      what do you mean by anti-gender?

      Surely most 'gender critical' people understand the concept/meaning of gender,

      It's pretty clear at this point that gender means a bunch of different and conflicting things and everyone is confused by its usage. I wrote about Kathleen Stock's explanation of the word gender and how it is used a while back,

      Stock concludes her answer to the question,

      When people are arguing about gender, quite often one of them is talking about sex, one of them is talking about social stereotypes, and a third one is talking about gender identity, and they’re all shouting at each other.

      .https://thestandard.org.nz/what-is-gender/

      and so would be able to answer the (census) question “What is your gender?” accurately, if they chose to do so. [Note that the 2023 NZ census did not force people to endorse the concept of gender.]

      In fact the 2023 census allowed three options,

      1. state what your gender is
      2. don't answer the question, in which case they will fill in gender for you based on other data
      3. write on the form that you don't have a gender or object to answering the question, in which case they will fill in gender for you based on other data

      So technically, yes no-one was forced to say they had a gender, but there is no choice to have one's concept of not having a gender recorded. Self ID is only for some people.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1
        13 April 2023 at 10:36 pm

        what do you mean by anti-gender?

        Thanks for your question. The answer, given my limited and evolving understanding (as someone who is not 'anti-gender', nor a trans rights activist), is in two parts:

        1. Definition of gender that makes sense to me; draws on some of Stock's definitions.

        Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.

        This definition is consistent with reality, and compatible with universal human rights (including rights of minorities), not to mention (at least some) gender critical PoVs.

        2. "Anti-gender" then means: (a) a view that gender (as defined above) is not real, i.e. not evidence based, but rather is an imaginary set of human qualities/characteristics that cannot be perceived by any way of knowing (because they're not real.)

        Also (narrower): (b) a view that specific consequences of belief(s) in gender and how it is constructed (see 1), particularly those that might undermine traditional and/or 'normal' sex-based characteristics, social roles and behaviours, are unnatural and so must be opposed and/or eradicated, as advocated by various anti-gender movements.

        So I suppose that I mean more than one thing by 'anti-gender', which is hardly surprising given the range of meanings that have attached to 'gender.'

        • weka 8.1.1.1
          13 April 2023 at 10:44 pm

          thanks for clarifying. Who would be some people that are anti-gender?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 8.1.1.1.1
            14 April 2023 at 1:49 am

            Who would be some people that are anti-gender?

            Some archetypal figures named in Wikipedia’s ‘anti-gender movements’ link, plus a couple of high-profile (US right-wing political) opportunists spring to mind:

            Farida "year of the skirt" Belghoul
            Jair "Trump of the Tropics" Bolsonaro
            Ron "we fight the 'woke'" DeSantis
            Andrzej 'the LGBT movement is "a foreign ideology"' Duda
            Eva "working is a 'masculine' attribute" Herman
            Donald "blood coming out of her wherever" Trump

            These people are wedded to sex-based stereotypes – strict adherence to traditional gender roles is the ideal, with limited exceptions if any. Their views seem anachronistic, more in line with the Taliban than liberal democracies.

            Anti-trans hate. How do we make sure Australia doesn’t go down the same path as the US and UK? [24 March 2023]

            • weka 8.1.1.1.1.1
              14 April 2023 at 2:22 pm

              ok, but I think you are confusing things there.

              If the anti-gender movements are that broad range of people organising in opposition to gender identity ideology, then there are two problems with your argument.

              1. right wing fundamentalist Christians are often anti-trans, they don't want transness in the world, and they want to enforce gender roles and stereotypes. Left wing gender critical feminists are comfortable with gender non-conformity (often being GNC themselves), want to remove the pressure associated with gender roles and stereotypes. There's not a lot of common ground there.
              2. the Trump link talks about misogyny. It's not about anti-gender ideology. It's about how a misogynistic man habitually treats women like shit. Women, as in adult human females. I'm sure he has a set of bigotries against TW and TM, and that's a different things. It looks like you conflated sex, gender and gender identity.

              The wikipedia piece also is problematic because it used the term anti-trans feminist movement. If someone were making that argument here they'd be expected to provide evidence and make an actual argument, rather than starting with the a priori statement. I didn't click through though.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                14 April 2023 at 4:32 pm

                right wing fundamentalist Christians are often anti-trans, they don't want transness in the world, and they want to enforce gender roles and stereotypes. Left wing gender critical feminists are comfortable with gender non-conformity (often being GNC themselves), want to remove the pressure associated with gender roles and stereotypes. There's not a lot of common ground there.

                Thanks weka, I had previously questioned whether there was much overlap – seemed unlikely to me, and your first point reinforces this.

                I'm sure he has a set of bigotries against TW and TM, and that's a different things. It looks like you conflated sex, gender and gender identity.

                ‘I will forever be an American soldier’
                Transgender service members respond to Trump’s Ban

                I'm sure you're right, and can see how my poorly-chosen link (for Trump) would be viewed as conflation. Fwiw, I'm currently clear in my own mind about the meaning(s)/definitions(s) of gender (see 8.1.1), gender identity, and (biological/genetic) sex in humans, and also clear that these words may mean different things (and possibly more than one thing) to different people. I have comments on TS to thank for this clarity.

                Why Sex Is Mostly Binary but Gender Is a Spectrum
                [15 December 2016]
                A short genetic history of one of the most profound dimensions of human identity.

                As to the idea that there are anti-trans feminists, I don't think that there's much doubt that some trans people and trans activists hold that PoV. Certainly hope that it's (still) possible to find, if not common ground then at least a little middle ground as the culture wars grind on.

                Welcome to Openly
                Openly is a global digital platform delivering fair, accurate and impartial lgbt+ news to a world that isn’t.

                OPINION: Lesbians need to get the L out of the LGBT+ community [12 April 2019]

                OPINION: A new wing of the anti-gender movement
                [15 April 2019]

  9. Psycho Milt 9
    13 April 2023 at 3:48 pm

    I liked the relatively brief period of time when feminists were using 'gender' for the stereotypes a society applies to the sexes. That was actually a useful distinction, in that it gave you a handy way to distinguish between differences that were a result of biological differences between male and female, and differences that were social inventions (eg "men don't breastfeed" vs "men don't cry"). There was plenty of room for dispute about the extent to which particular behaviours are social rather than evolved, but it was still a handy distinction.

    Thanks to the postmodernists, 'gender' now mostly serves to try and obfuscate sex, hence the confusion described in the OP about what Stats NZ is asking and what it's trying to achieve. The circular definitions Stats NZ offers for its gender terminology are par for the course in govt depts now.

    • hetzer 9.1
      13 April 2023 at 3:56 pm

      Well look at the goon that is the Minister responsible ( stats nz )…no surprises there

    • Shanreagh 9.2
      13 April 2023 at 3:59 pm

      Agree with this

      Thanks to the postmodernists, 'gender' now mostly serves to try and obfuscate sex, hence the confusion described in the OP about what Stats NZ is asking and what it's trying to achieve. The circular definitions Stats NZ offers for its gender terminology are par for the course in govt depts now.

      The confusion is also evident when the PM cannot answer 'What is a woman'. It has become a name that shall not be mentioned, or where the meaning will be erased altogether.

  10. Mike the Lefty 10
    13 April 2023 at 6:28 pm

    Perhaps there should have been two questions – what sex do you think you are and what sex do others think you are. Seriously, each census that comes out outdoes it's predecessor in b.s. ness. A road of old cobras, as a now deceased British comedian used to say.

    • Visubversa 10.1
      14 April 2023 at 8:35 am

      You can think you are anything you like, but the truth about your sex is in almost every cell in your body. One drop of blood tells the truth, one smear of saliva, one hair bulb. They have done so since your conception and will do so until you death, and even after. The truth is in your bones, and even in your cremains.

      Your phony, made up "gender identity" (Moongender anyone?) dies with you.

      Human are very good at perceiving the sex of others. Especially female humans, it is a survival mechanism.

  11. Tabletennis 11
    13 April 2023 at 8:01 pm

    Thank you Laura for your write up.
    From some reactions I take it they just thought census must mean -gender- as in sex
    Not even wondering why would census ask the same question twice ? as in the census question: what sex is on my birth certificate.

    Fact: NZ passport ask: Tane-Wahine/Sex
    DL: has no sex on it (mine hasn't.)

    SPC and Incognito: this is not about (concern of Laura for) personal information collection (if you had read it whole) its what the collection of information with confusing /can't answer questions does to data collection and its reliability (as the UK census has now shown).
    This is data on which future governments make (budget) decisions.
    And when you don't answer this specific question the computer programme does it for you….

    One has to sign the census form at the end to confirm that one has answered it truthfully, and if you don't there is a considerable fine. I suspect it really depends how serious or not you take filling out the census.

    • weka 11.1
      13 April 2023 at 8:28 pm

      that was the one for me. I take the census seriously and Stats were basically ensuring that people lied or Stats would lie for them.

    • Incognito 11.2
      13 April 2023 at 9:48 pm

      Here you go:

      This practice violates people’s right to ensure that data held about them is accurate.

      It is an inaccurate statement based on a misconception. The Guest Author clearly did not do her fact-checking properly. This is not a ‘crime’, just something that can do with a clarifying correction, which is what SPC and I have attempted. SPC has gone silence, for some reason …

      • Shanreagh 11.2.1
        14 April 2023 at 12:39 am

        While it is not personal information that is the type directly covered in the Privacy Act it is personal information that is amalgamated up & down by/to mesh block into data that is often used in the formulation of govt & local authority policy and therefore the subsequent allocation of finance. At the time it gets to mesh block this personal information not assigned by name but you can get quite detailed info about age, occupation, time in NZ, ethnicity, religion etc.

        https://datafinder.stats.govt.nz/layer/106729-meshblock-2022-generalised/

        There are around 53,500 mesh blocks in NZ. Each mesh block contains 30-60 households.

        I thought author felt, as I do, that this is a badly worded question likely to produce information that is not fit for purpose or what some call garbage. A person should have a remedy if personal information sought is misleading when sought and so is likely to mislead once it is amalgamated . A person concerned about giving one bit of information that may be wrongly construed in the making of Govt or local body policy as a whole should be commended and not chastised.

        I am not expecting that you will accept with this but others may be interested in the relatively small numbers that are in a mesh block and how easily misleading questions, can become misleading answers leading to misleading data.

        In times gone by WCC gave (generous) insulation subsidies around my suburb based on mesh block plus data from the property files. Sociologists/historians often work in mesh block size.

        SPC did their explanations no good by seeming to conflate sex and gender which rather misses the point of what the Guest Poster was saying. SPC when asked did not define what gender was in their terms.

        People also had to sign it as being correct and if it is not why should be do this. If it is then forced on one by another (ie Stats) then this is bad.

        • SPC 11.2.1.1
          14 April 2023 at 5:55 am

          SPC did their explanations no good by seeming to conflate sex and gender which rather misses the point of what the Guest Poster was saying. SPC when asked did not define what gender was in their terms.

          I first posted on 4 that feminists of the past had no problem recognising themselves as of the female gender. This is a simple fact.

          I did so because, regardless of the "war" between the only those born female can be women group and those who seek access to women's spaces without being born female, most people have no problem with birth sex female/gender female and birth sex male/gender male and thus filled out the census form with scarce a thought to the war between two minorities going on around them.

      • Laura López 11.2.2
        14 April 2023 at 9:55 am

        Hi Incognito,

        Thanks for raising this interesting point.

        First up, a couple of points for clarity:

        1. I’m not a lawyer and my intention is not to offer a legal opinion (either in my article, or in this comment). When I wrote about “people’s right to ensure that data held about them is accurate”, I meant their ethical right. My intention in linking to the Privacy Commissioner’s website was to convey that this is a generally accepted ethical principle. I probably could have made this clearer, sorry.
        2. I also don’t work for Stats, and I’m not familiar with the exact details of how they store the census data.
        3. I’m aware that Stats don’t provide your identifiable census information to other agencies, and my article doesn’t say otherwise.

        That said, on their website, Stats NZ makes it very clear that your responses to the census are personal information.

        Your rights with your information

        You have the right to ask for a copy of any personal information we hold about you, including any information you supplied in a census form, either on paper or online.

        https://www.census.govt.nz/your-info/

        The fact that they are able to provide you with your personal information is a pretty clear indicator that they hold it on file with your identity attached. As is this:

        The Public Records Act 2005 requires us to keep a complete set of census forms. After 100 years, custody of the forms will pass to Archives New Zealand.

        https://www.stats.govt.nz/methods/security-privacy-and-confidentiality-of-census-data

        And this:

        We retain identifiable census and administrative data securely, and access to this data is highly restricted. This data includes names, addresses, and other identifiable information such as date of birth. Access to all data is strictly controlled, and identifiable information is only accessible to a small number of staff.

        https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/how-stats-nz-looks-after-your-information

        It’s thus possible that people’s identifiable census information could be released, either maliciously or accidentally (although I’m confident that this risk is very small). Stats NZ seem to acknowledge this:

        Each census we review the confidentiality rules that we apply to the release of census data. Census data is high-risk data because it covers the entire country, we publish down to small areas, and there are many interrelated and overlapping tables that can be produced.

        https://www.stats.govt.nz/methods/security-privacy-and-confidentiality-of-census-data

        Finally, Stats NZ also say:

        You also have the right to correct non-census information we hold about you, or to complain if you believe we have mishandled your information.

        https://www.census.govt.nz/your-info/

        I read this as a polite way of saying that if you provide incorrect information in the census, or it becomes outdated, you don’t have the right to go back and correct it. This seems reasonable, since having multiple different versions of the census data floating around could cause all sorts of issues.

        However, you could make a case that for Stats NZ to add unverified and/or inaccurate information into someone’s census record against their will is mishandling their information, at least from an ethical point of view.

        Again, I’d emphasise that I’m not a lawyer, and my comments relate to the ethics of Stats NZ’s actions rather than their legality. However, I’d be interested to hear the views of people who do have relevant legal expertise.

        • weka 11.2.2.1
          14 April 2023 at 10:56 am

          👏

        • weka 11.2.2.2
          14 April 2023 at 11:14 am

          your comments are still getting caught in the first commenter filter (I can’t see any typos in your name or email, which would also trip the filter). I will let lprent the sysop know. It’s an occasional bug although I haven’t seen it in a long time.

          • Laura López 11.2.2.2.1
            14 April 2023 at 11:52 am

            Thanks weka for looking into this.

            I wonder if the system is having trouble with the accent in my name. When I try to leave a comment, it defaults to:

            Laura López

            …as my name, and then I manually correct it. Maybe if I just left it alone it would work better? But then I'm not sure whether it would display correctly.

            • Shanreagh 11.2.2.2.1.1
              14 April 2023 at 1:17 pm

              Thank you Laura for the original article and the clarifcation.

              In some jurisdictions UK/USA after 80/100 years the census returns are made public. This is for genealogical purposes. You can find a name, click on it and see a transcript of the reply and usually see the completed forms. At the moment you can access the US 1940 census and a 1939 habitation index in the UK. Work is being done on transcribing censuses from the 1920s UK & Ireland.

              US quote from

              https://www.familysearch.org/1940census/

              "Index and images of population schedules listing inhabitants of the United States in 1940. This was the sixteenth census conducted since 1790. There were 134 million individuals enumerated this census year. The schedules cover the 48 states as well as Alaska, Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Panama Canal Zone, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. The index is being created by FamilySearch, BrightSolid, and Inflection."

              1939 Register UK

              https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

              There are deletions made on this register as it was used by UK NHS and access is closed to data on individuals born less than 100 years old unless these folk have died.

              NZ has never allowed (from memory) this census data to be sold. In some cases the original papers have been pulped/destroyed once the data has been collected. It does allow greater access to current electoral roll data than some jurisdictions though with current copies available at libraries for genealogists. Many Govt depts use data from electoral rolls, valuation indices in their day to day work.

              My hope is that census questions will be relevant and clear. Stats seemed to have captured themselves with current trends without being especially clear on the rationale for doing this.

              Once again thank you.

          • Laura Lopez 11.2.2.2.2
            14 April 2023 at 1:11 pm

            p.s. I still can't see my article on my phone (unless I switch from 'Mobile' to 'Desktop' view, which makes it very difficult to read). I know you asked someone to look into this yesterday. It'd be great if it could be fixed.

            I've tried leaving my name as "Laura López" to see what happens.

            • weka 11.2.2.2.2.1
              14 April 2023 at 1:36 pm

              Your name had the accent typo in it. I’ve edited it to without hte accent to see what happens on your next comment.

              The mobile bug is an ongoing issue without an immediate fix I’m afraid. I’ll email Lynn when I get the chance.

              • Laura Lopez …
                15 April 2023 at 3:54 pm

                Thanks weka for looking into this. A lot of people prefer to read on their smartphones these days, so The Standard is probably missing out on a fair bit of traffic due to this issue.

                This time, my name defaulted to:

                Laura López

                I've tried entering it without the accent.

                Source:

                https://www.statista.com/statistics/265782/devices-of-choice-for-receiving-online-news-in-the-us/

                • weka …
                  15 April 2023 at 6:36 pm

                  afaik, it's a periodic known issue. Sysop fixes it as it arises. In this case, it wasn't all posts, so I'm not sure what is going on. Lprent, the sysop has been notified.

                • weka …
                  15 April 2023 at 9:28 pm

                  The post should be visible on the mobile version now. Please let me know if it's not on your device.

                • weka …
                  15 April 2023 at 11:56 pm

                  ok, it turns out the problem is with the wordpress editor when it embeds tweets. There's not short term fix for this other than to not embed the tweet. I've made a screenshot of the tweet and put that in the post and put a plain, clickable link for the tweet under it. Best I can do at this point (Lprent will find a better fix long term as he works on the site).

                  This matters for posts going forward too (use images of tweets and supply a link). I will have to get used to this myself because I use a lot of tweets in post 🙁

    • SPC 11.3
      14 April 2023 at 5:45 am

      Legislation from 2009 came into effect in 2012 as the NZH reported in 2012.

      A Human Rights Commission report recommended in 2008 that people should have the right to change their gender on their passports and other documents.

      The law was changed in 2009 to allow changes from male to female or vice versa by a declaration from the Family Court, and a change from either gender to X by a statutory declaration.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/x-marks-the-spot-on-passport-for-transgender-travellers/OAH7D5ETJDSUKUTDL5C452CLGQ

      Your driver licence doesn't show your gender, but you can apply to change the gender on your licence record to male, female or indeterminate.

      The New Zealand Transport Agency has more information about this process:

      Changing the sex/gender details on your driver licence record (external link)

      https://privacy.org.nz/tools/knowledge-base/view/498

      Note the use of sex/gender

      • SPC 11.3.1
        14 April 2023 at 6:01 am

        PS

        Te Aka Maori dictionary

        Tane – husband, male, man.

        Wahine – female, women, feminine.

        https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&histLoanWords=&keywords=wahine

      • weka 11.3.2
        14 April 2023 at 11:47 am

        yes, the NZ government is conflating sex and gender and causing a lot of confusion.

        According to wikipedia, the current NZ passport uses the word sex.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_passport

        Allowing trans people to choose which sex marker is recorded is a social/legal fiction to make the lives of trans people easier. It doesn't mean that sex = gender, and it doesn't mean that someone literally changed sex.

        • SPC 11.3.2.1
          14 April 2023 at 12:20 pm

          The passport using the word sex after tane/wahine, and allowing people to make a gender change declaration to change this from their birth sex seems to be part of a pattern – it has been around since the 2009 legislation and into effect 2012.

          The 2008 legislation (updated 2021 to allow something closer to self ID) allowed Declarations of Family Court to determine the sex to be shown on birth certificates issued for adults.

          https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0048/latest/DLM1250720.html

          Georgina’s focus, too, as a legislator was to ensure through her 2004 Human Rights (Gender Identity) Amendment Bill, that “gender identity” was included as prohibited grounds of discrimination in section 21 of the Human Rights Act 1993.

          She achieved this goal as Crown Law determined it was already included as discrimination based on sex.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/131421129/georgina-beyer-an-outstanding-example-of-the-potential-of-humanity

          • Psycho Milt 11.3.2.1.1
            14 April 2023 at 1:24 pm

            "…Crown Law determined it was already included as discrimination based on sex."

            An excellent illustration of "the NZ government is conflating sex and gender and causing a lot of confusion."

            It also helps explain why Weka and I had someone on Twitter the other day trying to tell us men can use female-only spaces because the HRA prevents discrimination against their gender identity. The confusion is real.

            • Psycho Milt 11.3.2.1.1.1
              14 April 2023 at 1:41 pm

              Found the Crown Law advice:

              https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/SG%20Opinion%202%20Aug%202006.pdf

              How things have changed in the last 17 years! CLO considers "discrimination" against trans-identified people in the usual terms, eg can't be dismissed from your job if you transition. The idea that expecting male adults claiming a feminine identity to keep out of female-only spaces is "discrimination" doesn't feature, presumably because people at the time would have recognised it as batshit crazy.

              I did like this bit:

              The definition of disability discrimination is probably wide enough to cover this as it includes a "psychological disability."

              Funnily enough, no-one seems to mention that opinion.

              • SPC …
                14 April 2023 at 2:18 pm

                The DSM does provide a way to catalogue society change in attitudes towards issues such as homosexuality and gender identity.

                Homosexuality is in DSM 1 and 2, then in 3 and 4 in another form and goes entirely by DSM 5 in 2013.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_DSM

                But in the change in categorisation of homosexuality they did this in 1980

                Instead of just eliminating homosexuality they did this

                DSM 1980, "sexual orientation disorder" was reworked as "ego-dystonic homosexuality" and the overarching categories were reorganized. The DSM-III included the completely new overarching diagnostic category "psychosexual disorders," which was divided into four subcategories:

                • "gender identity" (e.g., "transsexualism")
                • "paraphilias" (which included everything previously called "sexual deviations" except for sexual orientation disturbance, with the addition of "zoophilia")
                • "psychosexual dysfunctions" (e.g., "inhibited sexual desire" and "premature ejaculation")
                • "other psychosexual disorders" (which consisted of two diagnoses: "ego-dystonic homosexuality" and "psychosexual disorder not elsewhere classified")

                Ego-dystonic homosexuality was defined as having a desire to be heterosexual but not experiencing heterosexual arousal, or experiencing unwanted or distressing homosexual arousal that gets in the way of being heterosexual

                Then it was on its own

                The DSM-III-R (1987) added "Gender Identity Disorder of Adolescence and Adulthood, Non-Transsexual Type"

                DSM 5 (2103) replaced gender identity disorder (GID) with gender dysphoria (GD) to avoid the stigma of the term disorder.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

    • Visubversa 11.4
      14 April 2023 at 8:39 am

      I didn't sign my Census forms. I wrote a letter saying that I could not sign it because it did not permit me to tell what I believe to be the truth.

      I said that as a retired Justice of the Peace with nearly 30 years service, I know that signatures on an official from mean something and that is why I had not signed it,

      • weka 11.4.1
        14 April 2023 at 10:54 am

        💜

      • Shanreagh 11.4.2
        14 April 2023 at 12:54 pm

        Good on you Visubversa.

        Perhaps the different ways that people have chosen to address this issue will keep Stats on their toes ie they won't be able to formulate a date extraction policy without some difficulty as different people have chosen not to answer this in different ways. Dealing with exceptions often focusses the minds of those having to do it on why are they incurring additional costs and could we do better next time.

        Hopefully Stats will be able to competently review itself on the census and this won't be repeated. I live in hope.

        Whatever they do it should be aimed at ensuring that Corey and my friend's transtioning grandson can clearly see the benefits of being part of the census answering community.

        Having woolly questions such as the gender one, this was the one that the grandson got as far as answering before putting it to one side.

  12. roblogic 12
    14 April 2023 at 1:06 am

    Is this Kiwiblog? Just wondering, because we are talking here about a single question on the Census as if it's a nefarious conspiracy by a far left cabal.

    Rather that a simple botch of a complex issue, as demonstrated by Chippy the other day when he was asked "What is a woman?"

    The wider question IMO is what is happening in society that the last 2 censuses (censii??) have had such poor response rates. That could be a fruitful avenue for statistical enquiry.

    I surmise that trust in government and social cohesion have been on a downward trajectory for 40 years and now we are reaping the ugly fruit of Rogernomics. The worst affected being Māori and Pasifika communities.

    Confusingly worded questions are annoying but homelessness and poverty and social dislocation are probably the main drivers. Conspiracy thinking is an understandable response to the trauma of living in deeply unequal society where the poor are routinely abused and despised

    • weka 12.1
      14 April 2023 at 1:42 am

      I wish it was a single botched question. It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy, it’s just the government quietly shifting from sex stars to gender as default, enforcing gender identity ideology, and upholding No Debate that undermines women’s sex based rights.

      see also https://thestandard.org.nz/should-the-government-replace-sex-data-with-gender-identity-data/

      yes, there are a lot of important issues. I’m not sure we can win them if we give up material reality.

    • left for dead 12.2
      14 April 2023 at 10:15 am

      roblogic,

                   Please forgive me weka. Why didn't the then minister of Stats James Shaw not fill out the census on or before the 5th of march 2017,yes I know and will try and link to a truncated news item view on RNZ. He was in the Cook Islands with the then PM,but his department where going around rest homes telling anybody who would or could listen &quot;that the form/s could be fill anytime up to that date,as for<a href="https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018634834/statistics-minister-shaw-confident-of-census-success" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018634834/statistics-minister-shaw-confident-of-census-success</a> this year as well.

      Excuse me weka,but it’s gone weird again.

    • left for dead 12.3
      14 April 2023 at 10:20 am

      roblogic,

      Please forgive me weka. Why didn't the then minister of Stats James Shaw not fill out the census on or before the 5th of march 2017,yes I know and will try and link to a truncated news item view on RNZ. He was in the Cook Islands with the then PM,but his department where going around rest homes telling anybody who would or could listen "that the form/s could be fill anytime up to that date,as for this year as well.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018634834/statistics-minister-shaw-confident-of-census-success

  13. Shanreagh 13
    14 April 2023 at 7:09 am

    …….it’s just the government quietly shifting from sex stars to gender as default, enforcing gender identity ideology, and upholding No Debate that undermines women’s sex based rights

    Agree with Weka above. It is not a conspiracy and neither is it a 'war between two minorities going on around them.'

    The Govt has much longer reach and most/many would accept unquestioningly the word or the right by the Govt to word (skew) things as they chose.

    However the quote generally ascribed to Thomas Jefferson 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' is apt. I like to think that TS plays a role in this.

  14. RP Mcmurphy 14
    14 April 2023 at 10:29 am

    I cant remember what I amswered now. I do know that under race I entered homo sapiens sapiens. the fracturing of sexuality and politicisation in post modern life is nauseous.

    • Shanreagh 14.1
      14 April 2023 at 1:27 pm

      Yes RP Mcmurphy you are correct.

      My concern is also that the ability to use the census as a high quality tool for population based data for health, education and MSD planning is being jeopardised by ill-thought out questions that just irritate people so much that they cannot be bothered answering.

      Then, despite objections, we have personal data assigned to us naughty ones by Stats. So possibly inaccurate and definetly not personal info is agglomerated by Stats from the genders they have assigned to us.