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How To Get There 18/8/19

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, August 18th, 2019 - 28 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:

 

This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

28 comments on “How To Get There 18/8/19 ”

  1. Robert Guyton 1

    Gorgeous morning in Riverton: clear sky, not a breath of wind, and there's frost on the farm next door. In the forest outside of my window, birds are busy consolidating relationships with chirp and dance, having already sung the morning awake and my grandchildren are doing the same on the floor of my lounge, before the fire. I have brothers, sons and daughters staying at the moment, so the house is full and lively. There's the aroma of coffee in the air and talk of gardening, bear-poo (it has berries in it, I hear) and last-night's birthday party. Toy's are migrating from the toy-box to the carpet and there's some competition for favourites; the 2 year-old's favourite phrase at the moment, "Mine!" The day has started well.

    • Jenny - How to Get there? 1.1

      Your 2 year old sounds like Scott Morrison at the meeting or what Morrison paternalistically called the Pacific Family.

      ….the 2 year-old's favourite phrase at the moment, "Mine!

      Australia accused of putting coal before Pacific; as region calls for climate change action

      Pacific leaders have slammed Australia for putting politics ahead of their island neighbours after they undermined a consensus on a climate change communique.

      Key points:

      • Groups accuse Australia of "turning a blind eye" to their Pacific neighbours
      • New Zealand has been praised for its approach to tackling climate change
      • Critics say Australia's focus on coal has undermined its Pacific Step Up

      After marathon talks at the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) in Tuvalu, Australia could not reach an agreement on the Tuvalu Declaration made by smaller Pacific countries, one that called for a rapid phase-out of coal.

      Frank Bainimarama, Fiji's Prime Minister, said he was disappointed in the outcome.

      "We came together in a nation that risks disappearing to the seas, but unfortunately we settled for the status quo in our communique," he said on Twitter.

      Oxfam Australia@OxfamAustralia

      PM @ScottMorrisonMP is welcomed to #PIF2019 in Tuvalu by children symbolically submerged in the sea, in a powerful call for meaningful action addressing the #ClimateCrisis

      Embedded video

      37

      5:21 PM – Aug 14, 2019

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      42 people are talking about this

      "Watered-down climate language has real consequences — like water-logged homes, schools, communities, and ancestral burial grounds."

      Matthew Wale, deputy opposition leader in Solomon Islands, also condemned the decision on Twitter.

      "What a missed opportunity to really 'step up'. 'Family' has been exploited for domestic Australian politics," he said.

      "Pacific islanders were hoping for sincerity when we hear 'we're family'. We were mistaken."

      Earlier Tuvalu's Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga described a heated exchange with Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-16/australia-slammed-watering-down-action-climate-change-pacific/11420986

      Where in a 'family' a two year old's behaviour is tolerated and even considered amusing, because they don’t know any better. The same behaviour in an adult is neither amusing or appealing.

      • Robert Guyton 1.1.1

        Well, we can't recommend a spanking, so what can be done to chastise a recalcitrant Australian; itching-powder in their budgie-smugglers?

        • Jenny - How to Get there? 1.1.1.1

          Personally I am against corporal punishment, especially against toddlers.

          What works best for me with spoilt children is setting an example with my own behaviour.

          At the very least we could set an example by stopping Australian owned coal company Bathurst's planned expansion of the Rotowaro Coal Mine near Huntly.

  2. greywarshark 2

    Walking – good for the body and the brain.

    8:37 Professor Shane O'Mara: In Praise of Walking

    Neuroscientist Shane O'Mara is an avid walker who has just released a new book that is something of a hymn to the most basic of exercises, In Praise of Walking, the new science of how we walk and why it's good for us, which invites us to marvel at the many substantial benefits it confers on our bodies and minds.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018709199/professor-shane-o-mara-in-praise-of-walking

    • Robert Guyton 2.1

      So…how we get there…is by walking?

      I'm for that. Inns along the way. Shires a day across. Iron-shod staves to keep hips sound and dogs at bay.

      • greywarshark 2.1.1

        Edit
        I didn't hear it all. But was waiting for Mora to ask O/Mara what he thought about bikes on footpaths, and mountain biking taking over the nature walks which I consider akin to being menaced by chariots. All these wheeled invaders coming at you how can you relax? That was what you did when you went for ‘a walk’, you wanted to enjoy nature, now you have to stay on high alert.

        It shows the mindset of the neolib. Something becomes a conforming craze and everybody does it, it's healthy, they have a golden glow of self-satisfaction in that they are getting out in the fresh air, staying fit, and getting away from relying on cars, petrol etc. And like all superior beings they are willing to deprive the previous inhabitants of their primacy and traditional uses. The majority want it, they should have it, well the aggressive or assertive majority, and they talk about sharing and implying people who don't use machines for everything are pathetically old-fashioned and selfish and uncaring because the cyclists are getting injured and killed on the roads themselves. But as they move to the footpath they are then likely to injure people there who if they are old, and walking to stay fit, their old bones may never knit, they may become crippled.

        O'Mara needs to look at this modern trend – to put a machine between any desire to do anything and its implementation. Cycling is using a machine frequently on footpaths often as fast as a car, making walking and relaxing and meditative thinking difficult if not impossible. This needs to be admitted and not lost in a cloud of self-congratulatory theory by planners and exalted cycling afficiandos in towns, and spoiling our patches of reserves with mountain-biking tracks between the trees and bushes that we should be nurturing, as they nurture our well-being.

      • Janet 2.1.2

        We already have our small towns a days ride apart in much of NZ – seems their revival is near.

    • that was an interesting interview – i do long walks twice a day..to exercise dogs/me..

      i started walking when i was contemplating 40 inch waist as my next trouser-destination..and i realised something had to change..

      i am now back to 34 inch trousers..and am really quite fucken fit..(for an old fella..)

      and walking is the magic-bullet..(and fuck running/gyms – it's too sweaty)..just walk..

      (i also dropped to two meals a day – eat dinner in early evening..and no late-nite pot-munchie sessions..)

      but walking is the main one..

      it works..!

  3. Jenny - How to Get there? 3

    At this time my thoughts and prayers go to the people and families living in the Small Island States

    ….Small Pacific islands nations at risk from rising sea levels lambasted Australia on Friday after it blocked moves at a regional forum to set down tough policies to combat climate change….

    ….The final document encouraged policies to limit temperature rises to no more than 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7°F) above pre-industrial levels and called for an immediate halt to coal mining. But it also said member states could ignore any measures they opposed….

    …."I said to the Australian prime minister that 'you are concerned about your economy, I am concerned the future of my people,'" Tuvalu Prime Minister Enele Sopoaga told reporters.

    Sopoaga also revealed Tonga's Prime Minister Samiuela Pohiva cried during 12 hours of talks…..

    nytimes.com/reuters/2019/08/16/world/asia/16reuters-pacific-forum.html

    How To Get There 18/8/19

    My presumption is that when we are talking about how to 'Get There', we are talking about how to address the climate crisis.

    One way we could address the climate crisis is to listen to the SIS call to abandon coal mining.

    • greywarshark 3.1

      Thinking about How to Get There I consider needs to be beyond the climate crises, it needs to be examining our interactions as people and how we can unite and work together and appreciate each other with respect. How we can disagree, and change behaviours a little without all becoming dull conformists. How to be both kind and practical, and have overall controls on society without stopping others doing things that there is a good argument for.

      And respecting others, but also our own needs and rights. And finding balance. Climate change focus doesn't do anything about how we treat each other, our overhigh expectations, our rigid opinions, and lack of empathy or indeed our pendulum approach when in some situations there is too much empathy.

      Finding balance so we can prepare for climate change, and disasters and be practical and kind and intelligent should be our aims.

      • Robert Guyton 3.1.1

        Climate change provides a focus for changing behaviours, but it isn't the "real" reason for the need for change; there are so many other consequences that have resulted from our culture/behaviour that need to be revised/retired if we are to continue as a resident here on planet Earth. There's much that needs to be done. Thinking about walking is a great start along that difficult road.

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.3

        ……Climate change focus doesn't do anything about how we treat each other, our overhigh expectations, our rigid opinions, and lack of empathy or indeed our pendulum approach when in some situations there is too much empathy.

        greywarshark

        18 August 2019 at 10:27 am

        Hi Grey, Just a few questions to clarify what you mean by your above statement;

        Do you think that the plight of the people and families in the Small Island Nations is one of those situations where “there is too much empathy”?

        Do you think we shouldn't have “overhigh” expectations of our leaders here and in Australia?

        Do you think that the SIS demand that Australia do something about coal, the most destructive and dangerous, of all the fossil fuels, is one of those “rigid opinion”?

        Do you think that “our pendulum approach” of empathy should swing more towards Scott Morrison and the Australian coal mining industry rather than toward the Small Island States?

        Is this your example of how “we should treat each other”?

        Your answers would be appreciated

        • greywarshark 3.1.3.1

          If you want a detailed treatise on my opinions of ways to go and do that NZ can draw on to go forward in the near and distant future, I probably could produce one but I would want an hourly rate though at the lesser level, say $100 an hour. I will give you an estimate of the cost, and would want half paid before I start, the rest to be settled on my final price, before I hand over the document.

          Other than that I would be a fool to spend even more time putting forward ideas to people who love playing with words and heated arguments about which lane of the maze to go down next. My advice is to get a big ball of string in a noticeable colour, yellow I think. Also some scissors and then leave the string along the paths you have already followed. That's all I'll give for free.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.3.1.1

            …..I would want an hourly rate though at the lesser level, say $100 an hour.

            greywarshark

            How much will you charge for a 'Yes' or 'No' answer?

            As you refuse to clarify your statement.

            How about we make it simple (and cheaper)

            Are you really think that there is "too much empathy" for the Small Island States, and not enough empathy for the Australian polluters?

            Y/N

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.4

        …..our over high expectations, our rigid opinions, and lack of empathy or indeed our pendulum approach when in some situations there is too much empathy.

        greyrawshark

        Too much empathy, not enough empathy?

        Who can tell.

        When it comes to the dispute over coal mining between the Small Island States and Australia, Greyrawshark refuses to tell us which way he thinks our pendulum approach should swing.

        But if you take his statement at its face value, Greyrawshark thinks the pendulum of empathy needs to swing away from empathy for the victims of climate change, and more towards empathy with its perpetrators.

        Pendulum @ 3:20 minutes

        “We're alone on a small island in an endless sea, confined to a tiny spit of sand unable to escape….”

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89OdbX7A8E

        • greywarshark 3.1.4.1

          Don't put your words in my mouth Jenny. Really you are as bad as phillip ure to relate to. I put up something as a think piece and you should say what you have noticed about the situation I state instead of telling everyone your supposed version of what I am thinking.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.4.1.1

            How about you tell us the thinking behind your stink piece, instead of leaving us to try and work it out.

            And stop hiding behind facetious mercenary excuses.

          • Jenny - How to Get there? 3.1.4.1.2

            '
            I did not put words in your mouth, Grey.

            I quoted you exactly.

            I even gave you a chance to explain your statement, just in case you had not meant to say “….in some situations there is too much empathy.”

            Which you made in reply to my comment on the terrible plight of the Small Island States facing inundation due to climate change.

            Jenny – How to Get there? 3

            18 August 2019 at 9:55 am

            At this time my thoughts and prayers go to the people and families living in the Small Island States…..

            greywarshark 3.1

            18 August 2019 at 10:27 am

            Thinking about How to Get There I consider needs to be beyond the climate crises…..

  4. Sabine 4

    used to walk everywhere especially in AKL.

    now living on the 'country' side and i can't be bothered. I do not like to walk on berms next to highways, and i always wonder about the joggers and cyclist that throw their life on the line in order to be fit.

    luckily my dog likes her 1.5 km 'public park' walk that we share with mountain bikers, and guys on farmbikes/dirt bikes. That is pretty much all there is unless i am happy to take the car and drive to a walkway that is a bit longer somewhere else.

    But i am taking out a bag of rubbish everyday on the way home from the walk with the doggo so there is always that. Cause we can't have council managed rubbish bins either. clean green oy oy oy.

  5. WeTheBleeple 5

    Cannabis law reform attempts will bring dirty players out of the woodwork. The alcohol and pharmaceutical industries have their monetary interests so you bet they'll get involved… Also those nefarious parties concerned with controlling the population to their own ends.

    Get informed. Be prepared.

    'The Case For Cannabis Law Reform'

    http://vjmpublishing.nz/?p=9653&fbclid=IwAR2ue9x5tkac_hc8RBpRz_9fzfdYa3H0wlIDhFGqI6WADNYPkgfakxHD4eM

    There are 58 topics/talking points there, conveniently listed and linked.

  6. Exkiwiforces 6

    I’ve just watched this interesting piece on biodynamic farming on the ABC’s Landline and thought it would be of interest to a few here on this thread.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-17/alex-podolinsky-biodynamic-farming-pioneer/11413794

    • greywarshark 6.1

      Very interesting Exkiwi – I saw the name and wondered if he was one of the post-war Europeans who brought new ideas and ways to our insular shores. We are still struggling to break the cords that bind us to the worst of the past.

      Robert will have something to say about this when he gets time. To me it emphasises how we have to take notice of these things from the past. The modern companies would have us forget all about the old ways and rely entirely on their product with no alternatives and no right to demand change or compensation for their stuff-ups.

      I can see that there will be a call for a new style of culture in the future which will have to live without some modern practices and conveniences. Will cults spring up all over the place around sound agricultural practices and healthy unadulterated food?

  7. greywarshark 7

    I am thinking I would like to do a study of the practices of the Amish in the USA. Looking up google I can see that they are similar to the Mennonites and both come from Germany and seem to have sprung from Anabaptism there.

    That arose in the 1500s and turned into what is called the Munster Rebellion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_rebellion

    ...After the German Peasants' War (1524–1525), a forceful attempt to establish theocracy was made at Münster, in Westphalia (1532–1535)….Bernhard Rothmann was a tireless and vitriolic opponent of Catholicism and a writer of pamphlets that were published by his ally and wealthy wool merchant Bernhard Knipperdolling.

    The pamphlets at first denounced Catholicism from a radical Lutheran perspective, but soon started to proclaim that the Bible called for the absolute equality of man in all matters including the distribution of wealth.

    The pamphlets, which were distributed throughout northern Germany, successfully called upon the poor of the region to join the citizens of Münster to share the wealth of the town and benefit spiritually from being the elect of Heaven.

    However warning – the deposed, religious, political, local, aristo-merito-techno-crats, will not take kindly to the loss of their niche, and also the settled citizens who did not believe in this new movement.

    The city was then besieged by Franz von Waldeck, its expelled bishop. In April 1534 on Easter Sunday, Matthys, who had prophesied God's judgment to come on the wicked on that day, made a sally forth with only twelve followers, believing that he was a second Gideon, and was cut off with his entire band. He was killed, his head severed and placed on a pole for all in the city to see, and his genitals nailed to the city gate.

    But then a successor took his place; unfortunately sexuality got involved and that is always the human problem.

    The 25-year-old John of Leiden was subsequently recognized as Matthys' religious and political successor, justifying his authority and actions by the receipt of visions from heaven. His authority grew, eventually proclaiming himself to be the successor of David and adopting royal regalia, honors and absolute power in the new "Zion".

    There were at least three times as many women of marriageable age as men now in the town and he legalized polygamy and himself took sixteen wives. (John is said to have beheaded one woman in the marketplace for refusing to marry him; this act might have been falsely attributed to him after his death.) Meanwhile, most of the residents of Münster were starving as a result of the year-long siege.

    I can see that this theme of a group that is a large extended family with its own rituals and commitments would have a great pulling power if enough people were locked into poverty. The middle and upper classes of NZ seem satisfied to contemplate growing poverty perhaps on the basis that it is SEP, with minor forays into improvements when forced to admit they are absolutely necessary.

    We already have Exclusive Brethren, who are sort of religious FreeMasons with power behind the scenes, and business practices that advance themselves. And there is Gloriavale, West Coast. (It relocated from its original site at Cust near Rangiora, where it was known as the Springbank Christian Community, to Haupiri on the West Coast in 1991). One well-was Centrepoint, Auckland and now there is Destiny Church, Auckland.

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